ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[Dry Rot]

It's starting


ESSENDON players have reportedly been issued with show-cause notices by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority.

News Corp is reporting ASADA served the notices on players on Thursday following a 16-month probe into the club's 2012 supplements program.

Any players or officials found guilty of doping offences face suspension from all sport.

But the process of deciding whether anyone is guilty could take years, with legal action a certainty.

Show-cause notices require players to explain why they should not be handed infraction notices for breaching the WADA drug code.

If ASADA doesn’t accept the explanation they then compile a report on each player that may have breached the code. This report is then given to an independent group of experts who assess the evidence and decide whether an infraction notice should be issued by ASADA and the AFL.

If an infraction notice is issued, the player would be suspended immediately until the issue is resolved.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-12/dons-hit-with-doping-notices

[ReLoad]

I wonder if Disco has been served too?

[SlimPickens]

And here we go!!!

Wonder how they'll justify bringing the demigod back come years end?

[LostDoggy]

I wonder if Disco has been served too?

Whilst we cling to the hope that he won't be, I think realism is going to win out over optimism in this particular case.

[Webby]

And here we go!!!

Wonder how they'll justify bringing the demigod back come years end?

They can't possibly now. Hird's a dead duck.

[westdog54]

So it begins. It will be interesting to see who had been served.

[Dry Rot]

Looks like other clubs involved ie with former Bombers players

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/essendon-players-handed-show-cause-notices-by-asada/5519856

[bulldogtragic]

There were 40 players on the list. 34 have been hit so the rumours go.

Stew is odds on to have a show cause, moreso than not.

[Sedat]

There were 40 players on the list. 34 have been hit so the rumours go.
34 players and all of them in relation to Thymosin Beta 4. Worst possible result for the Scum - all the hot air over AOD simply a diversionary tactic - TB4 was the end game for ASADA.

[LostDoggy]

They can't possibly now. Hird's a dead duck.

You're trying to apply rationality and logic to the filth.

[SonofScray]

Good. I hope Essendon are decimated as a result of the next stage of proceedings.

[GVGjr]

Good. I hope Essendon are decimated as a result of the next stage of proceedings.

Good sentiment but it won't serve us or the league if that happens

[Sedat]

Good sentiment but it won't serve us or the league if that happens
I reckon it is a bitter pill that the game needs to swallow. If the 34 players (Crameri included) have been found to have taken a banned substance, the future health of the game demands that the players are suspended for the 2 year maximum and that whatever fats befalls Essendon, so be it.

On the surface, the Essendon doping regime is every bit as cynical and outside the rules as the East German athletes of the 70's or the cycling teams from the late 90's - if it means they close their doors, it is a price the game simply needs to pay.

[SonofScray]

I reckon it is a bitter pill that the game needs to swallow. If the 34 players (Crameri included) have been found to have taken a banned substance, the future health of the game demands that the players are suspended for the 2 year maximum and that whatever fats befalls Essendon, so be it.

On the surface, the Essendon doping regime is every bit as cynical and outside the rules as the East German athletes of the 70's or the cycling teams from the late 90's - if it means they close their doors, it is a price the game simply needs to pay.

Agree. If it hurts us as well, so be it. Our league is already compromised in many ways, which also needs addressing, but I'm not prepared to cop doping at all. There has to be consequences. Harsh enough that it ensures no Club tries it on ever again.

It'd be a great piece of football history to have Essendon fold as a result of being outed as blatant cheats (again). The game would survive, one way or another.

[westdog54]

Where the Bombers of 2012 are now.

PLAYERS STILL AT ESSENDON
Mark Baguley
Tom Bellchambers
Alex Browne
Jake Carlisle
Travis Colyer
Lauchlan Dalgleish
Alwyn Davey
Cory Dell'Olio
Courtenay Dempsey
Dustin Fletcher
Kyle Hardingham
Dyson Heppell
Michael Hibberd
Heath Hocking
Cale Hooker
Ben Howlett
Michael Hurley
Leroy Jetta
Elliott Kavanagh
Jake Melksham
Jackson Merrett
David Myers
Nick O’Brien
Tayte Pears
Patrick Ryder
Brent Stanton
Ariel Steinberg
Jobe Watson
Jason Winderlich
David Zaharakis

PLAYERS AT OTHER CLUBS
Stewart Crameri (Western Bulldogs)
Scott Gumbleton (Fremantle)
Angus Monfries (Port Adelaide)

PLAYERS NO LONGER ON ESSENDON/AFL LISTS
Luke Davis
Ricky Dyson
David Hille
Hal Hunter
Brendan Lee
Sam Lonergan
Anthony Long
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Mark McVeigh
Brent Prismall
Kyle Reimers
Michael Ross
Henry Slattery

From the AFL website.

[bornadog]

Don't like this from the Age article:


Fairfax Media was still trying to ascertain those 2012 players who have avoided show-cause notices on Thursday night. The club had 46 players on its senior and rookie lists in 2012, and have 29 players from 2012 - including rookies - on its list now. A number of players have left the club, including Angus Monfries, now at Port Adelaide, and Stuart Crameri, now at the Bulldogs. It is believed Monfries and Crameri have both received notices.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-showcause-notices-for-dons-20140612-zs64d.html#ixzz34QmJ8kch

[Max469]

I have been quite vocal about my views with in my group about this, in regards to Crameri. I will be furious at our club if they have not entered something in his contract to protect us.

At this stage, I am pretty P off about it. We do not need this. It will could prove costly to us.

[SonofScray]

I have been quite vocal about my views with in my group about this, in regards to Crameri. I will be furious at our club if they have not entered something in his contract to protect us.

At this stage, I am pretty P off about it. We do not need this. It will could costly to us.

I think heads would have to roll in a scenario where we lose a player in these circumstances. It'd be terribly unfortunate but a fair chunk of the Football Dept would have to be held accountable.

Hopefully the Club went in with a few options to safe guard our investment, or have grounds to bleed EFC dry if there are any. Not certain of how it all works.

[lemmon]

What else did we expect? It seriously is a case of 'buyer beware' and if we get stung it sits on no ones shoulders but our own. I like Stew and think he has been a good pick up but we knew what we were getting into. I'd have a vastly different opinion if the ASADA stuff came out after we'd made our enquiries but as is we'll have to cop sweet whatever comes.

[azabob]

Is Brent Prismall still employeed at the club?

[LostDoggy]

I'm really enjoying the measured, intelligent and diverse debate on this issue here on WOOF.

[Sedat]

Players that have been given show-cause notices can simply cooperate fully with ASADA and they could get their sanctions cut by as much as half. I know what I'd be advising Crameri, Gumbleton and Monfries to do if I was their current employer. And what will the likes of Reimers, Lonergan and other potentially disgruntled ex players do? I'm guessing that they will sing like canaries, then the current players will follow, being faced with minimum 2 years away from their job, then surely legal action will be taken against the club by angry players being denied their livelihood. That's when things will get interesting for EFC.

[1eyedog]

Players that have been given show-cause notices can simply cooperate fully with ASADA and they could get their sanctions cut by as much as half. I know what I'd be advising Crameri, Gumbleton and Monfries to do if I was their current employer. And what will the likes of Reimers, Lonergan and other potentially disgruntled ex players do? I'm guessing that they will sing like canaries, then the current players will follow, being faced with minimum 2 years away from their job, then surely legal action will be taken against the club by angry players being denied their livelihood. That's when things will get interesting for EFC.

Yep I can see this moving from ASADA v Essendon to Players v Essendon pretty quickly. The foundations of the club will be rocked and it will all be the responsibility of one man. Their messiah.

[KT31]

Yep I can see this moving from ASADA v Essendon to Players v Essendon pretty quickly. The foundations of the club will be rocked and it will all be the responsibility of one man. Their messiah.

Turns out, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!";)

[1eyedog]

Turns out, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!";)

“There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not”

[bornadog]

Turns out, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!";)

Love your posts KT31, always with great humour. :D

[1eyedog]

Love your posts KT31, always with great humour. :D

Yeah it was quick and funny. I enjoyed it.

[lemmon]

Now the question becomes how long this will be dragged through the courts for? Are we even going to get a decision for the next 24 months?

[wimberga]

Good point Lemmon.

Gerard Whateley on 360 pointed out that this whole episode ruined 2013 for the dons, will likely ruin 2014 and if they go down the legal route, you can potentially knock out 2015 and 2016 as well.

[whythelongface]

Anyone see the Little presser - he is playing the 'essendon is the victim' card. FFS the club has brought this on themselves. Sure there maybe issues with the whole process but the players are the concern not Essendon FC as a whole.

[hotdog]

This is now just getting ridiculous. Get the 17 Presidents together, tell Essendon to take their medicine and have this finished with or else see ya. If they fail in this latest action they are done.

[SonofScray]

Anyone see the Little presser - he is playing the 'essendon is the victim' card. FFS the club has brought this on themselves. Sure there maybe issues with the whole process but the players are the concern not Essendon FC as a whole.

I don't think anyone was buying his 'defending our players' honour,' line. Typical Essendon arrogance, he was smirking all the way through.

The sort of arguments and technicalities popping up reminded me of times sitting in with the Union and someone about to be sacked, when at the heart of it, they know they've stuffed up and are just making you do the dance as a matter of course rather than any real passionate defence of themselves.

[LostDoggy]

I think Essendon actually have a interesting case, but it'll be pretty sad if they get off on what it looks like they're challenging.

Basically, the premise of what their argument should be is that ASADA should have only requested the AFL provide them with information rather than run a joint investigation.
So, by running a joint investigation, it breaches the intentions of the ASADA act and invalidates the findings of the investigation.

It's a interesting argument which could get the players off the hook on a technically and make bombers fans even more insufferable

Either way administrative law is neither quick nor cheap to fight in the courts, this is going to take a while longer and will probably end with a HCA hearing

[LostDoggy]

Turns out, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!";)

Yet he's in Paris singing, "Always look on the bright side of life..."

[ReLoad]

I wonder where Peter Gordon and the other presidents sit in this.

Hypothetically, imagine if that club was us, we would have been thrown to the wolves and been booted from the AFL last year.

The way little/Hird are carrying on reminds me a lot of Lance Armstrong, fought ferociously, but in the end knew he did wrong.

If Hird and Little admitted guilt last year this would have been all over already.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder where Peter Gordon and the other presidents sit in this.

Hypothetically, imagine if that club was us, we would have been thrown to the wolves and been booted from the AFL last year.

The way little/Hird are carrying on reminds me a lot of Lance Armstrong, fought ferociously, but in the end knew he did wrong.

If Hird and Little admitted guilt last year this would have been all over already.

The AFL totally deserve this, as they've spent the last few decades building the entire competition on a handful of pillar clubs, and now their precious Big Four member has turned rotten, the whole structure is at risk of burning down. Screw Essendon, the AFL are watching their next TV rights deal go up in smoke.

It makes the football anarchist giddy with delight.

[josie]

Players that have been given show-cause notices can simply cooperate fully with ASADA and they could get their sanctions cut by as much as half. I know what I'd be advising Crameri, Gumbleton and Monfries to do if I was their current employer. And what will the likes of Reimers, Lonergan and other potentially disgruntled ex players do? I'm guessing that they will sing like canaries, then the current players will follow, being faced with minimum 2 years away from their job, then surely legal action will be taken against the club by angry players being denied their livelihood. That's when things will get interesting for EFC.

I think this might be best outcome for Crameri and Dogs. I feel sorry for the players - even though they should have had alarms bells ringing with weird injections into stomach. And believe it or not, I also feel sorry for some of their supporters (the ones who wanted Hird to resign that is).

Let's hope some of the current Essendon players also comply and then want out of the club asap. I'd willingly play vulture, however obscene this sounds.

[hotdog]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/rivals-urge-essendon-to-accept-penalties-20140616-zs9z2.html

I get the feeling the tide is turning and the pressure will mount for the Bombers to accept the penalties dished out by ASADA/ AFL. Another whole chapter then opens up on what happens then but I think everybody has had a gutful. Get this damn thing off the back of the papers and focus on the footy again.

[bulldogtragic]

If you have ten minutes, read this! Very interesting for anyone interested in the technical and legal aspects of the Federal Court claims. Very interesting.

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/06/16/essendons-federal-court-legal-action-against-asada-out-of-bounds-on-the-full/

[bornadog]

This is now just getting ridiculous. Get the 17 Presidents together, tell Essendon to take their medicine and have this finished with or else see ya. If they fail in this latest action they are done.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/rivals-urge-essendon-to-accept-penalties-20140616-zs9z2.html

I get the feeling the tide is turning and the pressure will mount for the Bombers to accept the penalties dished out by ASADA/ AFL. Another whole chapter then opens up on what happens then but I think everybody has had a gutful. Get this damn thing off the back of the papers and focus on the footy again.

You were right with that one.

[bulldogtragic]

I just heard Paul Little from Saturday "(Mcdevot) is trying to get the players to take the easy option and plead guilty.)

Easy for whom you dick? Stew (or others) potentially pleading guilty when he by his own ethics (not ASADA rules) has done nothing wrong because the cult told them it was OK is bloody hard, it just doesn't support your Jonestown like culture you dick.

[boydogs]

If you have ten minutes, read this! Very interesting for anyone interested in the technical and legal aspects of the Federal Court claims. Very interesting.

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/06/16/essendons-federal-court-legal-action-against-asada-out-of-bounds-on-the-full/

ASADA was created as an independent investigator to prevent sports from botching their own investigations or covering things up. I think they probably relied too much on the AFL given ASADA's limited resources and the size of the investigation, but that would only serve to explain why they haven't uncovered everything and not why the evidence to support 34 charges is invalid

[Remi Moses]

Gotta love Paul Little
His speech,we aren't guilty! Yet he doesn't know what the players took...
How on earth could they even think on Bringing Jim Cult back!!

[Dry Rot]

For the legally minded, this is a good read

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/06/16/essendons-federal-court-legal-action-against-asada-out-of-bounds-on-the-full/

[Scorlibo]

For the legally minded, this is a good read

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/06/16/essendons-federal-court-legal-action-against-asada-out-of-bounds-on-the-full/

Thanks DR. It's looking more and more likely that Essendon's little lawsuit is simply attempting to delay the course of justice. Is it so hard Essendon? To accept that you did something wrong? You can feel that the public is beginning to find you out, playing with legal loopholes. I'm reminded of the Lannisters in Game of Thrones, they've just a sickening sense of entitlement.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks DR. It's looking more and more likely that Essendon's little lawsuit is simply attempting to delay the course of justice. Is it so hard Essendon? To accept that you did something wrong? You can feel that the public is beginning to find you out, playing with legal loopholes. I'm reminded of the Lannisters in Game of Thrones, they've just a sickening sense of entitlement.
Who becomes Tyrion then?

[Twodogs]

For the legally minded, this is a good read

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/06/16/essendons-federal-court-legal-action-against-asada-out-of-bounds-on-the-full/

How authoritative is that article? I ask because I was only 3 paras in when I noticed the first grammatical error:



Both Essendon and James Hird are likely to establish this, although on different bases.

They mean to say basis surely? It doesn't fill me with confidence.

[Greystache]

How authoritative is that article? I ask because I was only 3 paras in when I noticed the first grammatical error.

The author was a partner at Mallesons for 10 years in litigation.

[boydogs]

They mean to say basis surely? It doesn't fill me with confidence.

Bases is the plural of basis

[Scorlibo]

Who becomes Tyrion then?

...Travis Colyer?

[westdog54]

How authoritative is that article? I ask because I was only 3 paras in when I noticed the first grammatical error:




They mean to say basis surely? It doesn't fill me with confidence.


Bases is the plural of basis

Grammar Nazi fail :D

[Twodogs]

The author was a partner at Mallesons for 10 years in litigation.


Bases is the plural of basis


Grammar Nazi fail :D


Me fail English? That's unpossible. :)

Oh well, carry on then.

[bornadog]

Me fail English? That's unpossible. :)

Oh well, carry on then.


http://youtu.be/KzyCi1BFATA

[bulldogtragic]

Dank on Adelaide radio says he believes the players knew what they were taking...

[FrediKanoute]

I reckon he (Dank) will sing like a canary.......

[ledge]

Yep and he will take Hird down big time.

[1eyedog]

Dank on Adelaide radio says he believes the players knew what they were taking...

Heard Cornes on SEN this morning seems Dank is very confident that they did not take any banned substances.

[bulldogtragic]

Heard Cornes on SEN this morning seems Dank is very confident that they did not take any banned substances.

He'd want to stick with that no matter what. Got to say I agree with Fredi, from interviews etc, I don't think i'd trust the locations of the bodies with Dank (figuratively to say).

[Greystache]

Heard Cornes on SEN this morning seems Dank is very confident that they did not take any banned substances.

Heard him trot out these types of quote a number of times, I don't buy it for a second. If he had proof he did nothing wrong we'd have seen it long ago, rather we hear that he's never going to present it, and he's tries to sue anyone who questions him.

He reminds me of the old bloke sitting on the corner of every local pub telling you about how he could've been a great AFL player but didn't want to be. Basically full of shit. If he could he would.

[Sedat]

Heard him trot out these types of quote a number of times, I don't buy it for a second. If he had proof he did nothing wrong we'd have seen it long ago, rather we hear that he's never going to present it, and he's tries to sue anyone who questions him.

He reminds me of the old bloke sitting on the corner of every local pub telling you about how he could've been a great AFL player but didn't want to be. Basically full of shit. If he could he would.
And he's going to sue everybody from AD to Dr Harcourt to Ziggy Switkowski to the boot studder - court action taken thus far. Zero.

Essendon are royally screwed - stubborn and arrogant fools have decided to die slowly via the scenic route. Won't be long now until the splintering begins and self-preservation - from Dank, from the players and their managers - takes over.

"I'm looking forward to the truth coming out and we'll be in a very good place". I guess that is why Essendon have thrown a desperate Hail Mary by trying to suppress the evidence (read: the truth) gathered by ASADA thus far in the Federal Court.

They are a shit stain on the competition and I personally hope they are wiped to oblivion after all this. Drug cheating en masse (if proven to have occurred) should never, ever be tolerated by the game's governing body. James Hird will forever be the pariah of the game - the Lance Armstrong figure whose hubris and narcissism destroyed a game's reputation.

This opinion piece from the usually grubby Damian Barrett (although his work on this issue has been excellent) is quite telling, considering it is from the game's official website: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-09/its-all-about-the-essendon-players

Couldn't put it better myself. Don't care about the smokescreens that Essendon and their grubby PR machine are trying to create. Simple questions that Essendon and their media cheerleaders are unable/unwilling to answer - What drugs did the players take? Are these drugs banned under the WADA code? Minimum 2 years for all 34 players (yes, I know that will screw us with Crammers). Lawsuits a-plenty landing on Essendon's door-step - hopefully including from us and Port. Maybe then Tassie can then have their own stand-alone team and the competition can once again rise from the mess created by this dirty organisation.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone watch the court circus today?

[westdog54]

Unbelievable.

There is no one James Hird won't try to drag down with him.

First says that the club was wrong to self report. Then that the AFL threatened him to take the 12 months. Maintains the club did nothing wrong. A greater narcissist I have never seen.

[bulldogtragic]

Unbelievable.

There is no one James Hird won't try to drag down with him.

First says that the club was wrong to self report. Then that the AFL threatened him to take the 12 months. Maintains the club did nothing wrong. A greater narcissist I have never seen.

And to think hundreds of thousands of people will gobble that up and regurgitate it...

[Greystache]

Unbelievable.

There is no one James Hird won't try to drag down with him.

First says that the club was wrong to self report. Then that the AFL threatened him to take the 12 months. Maintains the club did nothing wrong. A greater narcissist I have never seen.

What was even more bizarre was he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help himself. I'm not sure which of 4 statements was the most deluded. :D

[Webby]

What was even more bizarre was he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help himself. I'm not sure which of 4 statements was the most deluded. :D

Yes but as James Hird IS God, God will forgive James Hird.... (At least that's the take on things between Jimmy's giant ears!)

[Maddog37]

Would it be fair to assume Hird will go down screaming no matter the cost due to the fact that if he is found guilty he would be susceptible to civil suits from players etc?

[Twodogs]

What was even more bizarre was he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help himself. I'm not sure which of 4 statements was the most deluded. :D


Nice.

[lemmon]

What was even more bizarre was he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help himself. I'm not sure which of 4 statements was the most deluded. :D
Probably so deluded he believes what he's saying is truth

[westdog54]

And to think hundreds of thousands of people will gobble that up and regurgitate it...

With Sam Newman leading the charge.

Of anyone who has commented on this sorry saga he would seem the one with the least grip on reality.

Had to chuckle when he said that Hird had revolutionised the club. Wasn't that part of the problem?

[ledge]

He is now saying the club made him sat he is responsible for everything and the club forced him to say things that went true .. How the hell can essendon have him as coach next year when he is saying its all the clubs fault for what he said ?
Is the club seriously that deluded he can even blame them and still hold the job ???

[bulldogtragic]

With Sam Newman leading the charge.

Of anyone who has commented on this sorry saga he would seem the one with the least grip on reality.

Had to chuckle when he said that Hird had revolutionised the club. Wasn't that part of the problem?

Sigh... Stalin revolutionised The USSR even further than Lenin. Revolution isn't in and of itself a good thing as you point out, especially when based on fear, delusion and a leader with a god complex... Sigh...

[wimberga]

He is now saying the club made him sat he is responsible for everything and the club forced him to say things that went true .. How the hell can essendon have him as coach next year when he is saying its all the clubs fault for what he said ?
Is the club seriously that deluded he can even blame them and still hold the job ???

The most ridiculous thing is that for some reason or another, its as if they think that James Hird is the only one who can coach their club.

[Greystache]

The most ridiculous thing is that for some reason or another, its as if they think that James Hird is the only one who can coach their club.

The haven't won a final in over a decade (only Richmond has a longer drought) and haven't finished higher than 8th during that time. I think as a club they're out of ideas and are pinning their hopes to a messiah, which no doubt Hird is telling them his is.

[LostDoggy]

The haven't won a final in over a decade (only Richmond has a longer drought) and haven't finished higher than 8th during that time. I think as a club they're out of ideas and are pinning their hopes to a messiah, which no doubt Hird is telling them his is.

He's not the messiah, but he certainly is a very naughty boy.

[Remi Moses]

How on earth can the narcissist go back there and coach?
This whole circus doesn't deride the fact that Essendon put the health of their young men at serious risk.
Let nothing try and deflect that, although cult hird seems more interested in his own hide.
It's hard to fathom he even kyboshed Ziggy's report on the happenings at club peptides!
Just pathetic

[ledge]

What makes me laugh is the fact this is supposed to be about a club doing illegal drugs and this court case is about being an illegal investigation, if your innocent why would you stop the investigation you would want it done and dusted.
Essendon have now given up fighting their innocence and it has become a protect James Hird thing, problem
Is he is taking down the club that is trying to help him .. Because its all about him and damn anyone else , I feel for the players now.

[Sedat]

Forget all the complete and utter drivel being spouted out by the scribes in the media - all you really need to know about this case can be found here - http://sociallitigator.com/2014/08/12/losing-ground-how-the-evidence-fared-in-essendon-v-asada-litigation/

Some of the media commentary thus far has been laughably infantile. I mean, Mick Warner using a cricket analogy saying Essendon are 4/600 declared and ASADA have been skittled for 78 and are 6/45 in the 2nd innings - I guess his Walkley Award is already in the mail.

[Happy Days]

Forget all the complete and utter drivel being spouted out by the scribes in the media - all you really need to know about this case can be found here - http://sociallitigator.com/2014/08/12/losing-ground-how-the-evidence-fared-in-essendon-v-asada-litigation/

Some of the media commentary thus far has been laughably infantile. I mean, Mick Warner using a cricket analogy saying Essendon are 4/600 declared and ASADA have been skittled for 78 and are 6/45 in the 2nd innings - I guess his Walkley Award is already in the mail.

That's a hot hot take there from Warner, it literally singed my eyebrows off to read it.

This is turning into a Three Stooges skit.

[Cyberdoggie]

The most ridiculous thing is that for some reason or another, its as if they think that James Hird is the only one who can coach their club.

Sounds a bit like our history doesn't it.
ie messiah complex, pumping up the worth of individuals at the expense of club success.

I think it's so detrimental to the club and works against what you want to achieve.
We have done it for so long because it is all we have had. I think we are starting to change this mentality
around the club at least.

[bornadog]

Essendon are so stupid to spend money on lawyers and take ASDA to court.

This is what ASDA says today:


UPDATE: The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Body has warned if its joint investigation with the AFL into the Essendon supplements program is deemed unlawful it could re-acquire the same information within 24 hours and re-issue the show-cause notices that have already been handed to 34 players.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-warns-it-could-reissue-showcause-notices-court-told-20140813-103o0v.html#ixzz3AFq2b2HD

[Go_Dogs]

From a legal perspective it's quite an interesting few days, but who knows what the judge may determine.

It seems the questions to be tested around the legality of the joint investigation may go in ASADA's favour, however I'm not sure whether any determination now will be the last we hear of it - Essendon/Hird have come this far and I bet they will continue to pursue appeal avenues until (an even more) bitter end.

I was speaking to a mate about it yesterday, and for a bloke who is at the centre of a massive performance enhancing drug scandal, Hird has done pretty well - yes he missed 12 months, but he has the right to continue in his chosen profession, he has still been paid a significant salary whilst sitting on the sidelines and has the support of the people in power at his club, and their fans.

I find it staggering that it continues on - there must be some serious fears that more ASADA-issued penalties will arrive in due course - or perhaps, James has received advice his argument could knock the thing on its head. It seems peculiar that, in light of ASASA's statement this afternoon, he would pursue this action when they appear to have an ability to push on, regardless.

I suspect we'll still be talking about the same thing this time next year.

[The bulldog tragician]

Forget all the complete and utter drivel being spouted out by the scribes in the media - all you really need to know about this case can be found here - http://sociallitigator.com/2014/08/12/losing-ground-how-the-evidence-fared-in-essendon-v-asada-litigation/

Some of the media commentary thus far has been laughably infantile. I mean, Mick Warner using a cricket analogy saying Essendon are 4/600 declared and ASADA have been skittled for 78 and are 6/45 in the 2nd innings - I guess his Walkley Award is already in the mail.

I've really enjoyed her intelligent and considered analysis. It's apparent that many of the 'shock revelations' don't have much to do with the actual legal points on which the case will turn.

As I work in the city I dropped in for a sticky beak for an hour. It's only when you see six tables of lawyers that you get to appreciate how many millions are being spent on this. If the Bombres lose, surely even their deluded fans will be asking hard questions about the decision making of this supremely arrogant club.

[bornadog]

ASADA tables offer to AFL for Essendon players to accept six-month bans


Read more: h (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-tables-offer-to-afl-for-essendon-players-to-accept-sixmonth-bans-20140821-106qv2.html#ixzz3B1tEkQKX)ere

[josie]

Thanks Bornadog.

The bit of the article that states "The co-operation of WADA is mandatory for all discounted bans and McDevitt may have a difficult task convincing the Montreal-based world body to accept the proposed Essendon ban of six months"...

If a player accepts the 6 month ban and WADA do not co-operate they could then face a more lengthy ban. Is this a correct interpretation? If so, that's a big risk.

Also I am gleaning from this the player would have to accept the ban very soon, seeing as Magistrate I understand intends to make a finding on Essendon's case within the next few weeks. Am I correct?



"

[jeemak]

Josie I'd think the 6th month ban would be entirely conditional on the deal. If WADA was to knock back the concept then I assume it would mean all bets are off and nothing is admissible from an evidence or concessionary point of view.

It would be back to square one, i.e. the point just before the six months was offered.

[westdog54]

Josie I'd think the 6th month ban would be entirely conditional on the deal. If WADA was to knock back the concept then I assume it would mean all bets are off and nothing is admissible from an evidence or concessionary point of view.

It would be back to square one, i.e. the point just before the six months was offered.

I wouldn't have thought WADA knocking back the 6 months deals would throw out the entire investigation. Players would still be free to contest a doping charge, it would simply be a matter of overcoming the evidence.

[jeemak]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I used the term square one and qualified it by saying that would essentially be where we are now.

[Twodogs]

WADA are even more out of control than ASADA. I wouldn't be putting my future in their hands.

[bornadog]

AFL denying there is an offer on the table.

[Sedat]

The whole purpose of ASADA 'offering' the 6 month ban to the players is to shake the tree and get some of the players to turn on the club and give evidence that fingers key personnel. Does anyone really think that WADA is going to allow 6 month bans, most of which to be held out of competition, to stand? Unless there are players that do significantly assist the investigation (Crameri and Monfries, you know what to do).

Let's all remember one thing - in pre-season 2012 Essendon knowingly implemented a fast-tracked program to significantly increase the strength of the playing group, which more than likely involved the use of banned PED's. It was a systematic 12 month program involving the injections of thousands of syringes of substances into the players, most of which were mysteriously done off-site and behind the back of the club doctor. Most likely, this is coordinated doping on the scale of East Germany in the 70-80's, China in the 90's and the cycling world in the 90-00's. Everything else about court cases, joint investigations and other fluff is white noise designed to stop the investigation being completed and the findings to be released.

Essendon are rooted and they know it. So does the AFL and so do most media pundits, some of whom are doing their absolute best to smother the story, as their meal ticket is the AFL and the game will be significantly damaged by the likelihood of a foundation club being brought to its knees (through self-inflicted actions and continued arrogance) and unable to field a team for 2 seasons.

Just as Paul Keating used to goad John Hewson in parliament question time in the early 90's, ASADA are going to "do Essendon slowly"

[whythelongface]

Cronulla players have been offered 12 month bans backdated from November 2103 that come into force immediately. Thus effectively giving them a 3 month ban. I find it strange that they can backdate a ban yet during that period (9 months) they have been able to train and play as normal. Weak decision IMO.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Cronulla players have been offered 12 month bans backdated from November 2103 that come into force immediately. Thus effectively giving them a 3 month ban. I find it strange that they can backdate a ban yet during that period (9 months) they have been able to train and play as normal. Weak decision IMO.

Agreed.

All bark no bite.

[Topdog]

Cronulla players have been offered 12 month bans backdated from November 2103 that come into force immediately. Thus effectively giving them a 3 month ban. I find it strange that they can backdate a ban yet during that period (9 months) they have been able to train and play as normal. Weak decision IMO.

and captain their state to a State of Origin win.

[Hotdog60]

With that as a player you would take that deal and close the book on the whole saga.

There has been little news on the chemist that is at the bottom of all this. What's he up to?

[bornadog]

With that as a player you would take that deal and close the book on the whole saga.

There has been little news on the chemist that is at the bottom of all this. What's he up to?

Asada pushing for a life ban

[Sedat]

Asada pushing for a life ban
Think he's talking about Nina Alavi, the compound chemist, and not Dank. Alavi has sung like a canary, as has Charter. Essendon are rooted.

[Before I Die]

Cronulla players have been offered 12 month bans backdated from November 2103 that come into force immediately. Thus effectively giving them a 3 month ban. I find it strange that they can backdate a ban yet during that period (9 months) they have been able to train and play as normal. Weak decision IMO.

Isn't this due to the inordinate delays in the NRL investigation due to the AFL and the Pollies bringing pressure on ASADA to bring forth an interim report in the AFL case before the finals. If there in no clear justification for this deal (which I think stinks) then surely WADA will step in.

[Scorlibo]

The speculative 6 month ban is the same as was proposed upon the release of show cause notices, and it leans upon an independent panel ruling each player guilty/innocent. If the players had shown cause, they may well have been found innocent, and even if they hadn't, they would have received a discount for complying with the notice. They didn't, and now the offer is for them to plead guilty (according to this article) and receive the same discount. I'm not as skeptical as some about WADA allowing this, and think that the players would be mad not to take ASADA up on this as soon as the finals series is out.

Re: Cronulla, I'm left scratching my head also. The back dating makes zero sense.

[bornadog]

The speculative 6 month ban is the same as was proposed upon the release of show cause notices, and it leans upon an independent panel ruling each player guilty/innocent. If the players had shown cause, they may well have been found innocent, and even if they hadn't, they would have received a discount for complying with the notice. They didn't, and now the offer is for them to plead guilty (according to this article) and receive the same discount. I'm not as skeptical as some about WADA allowing this, and think that the players would be mad not to take ASADA up on this as soon as the finals series is out.

Re: Cronulla, I'm left scratching my head also. The back dating makes zero sense.

A few of the Olympians have come out and really criticized this today, and rightly so.

[Remi Moses]

There'd be some athletes who'd be scratching their heads.
Apparently they're responsible for what goes into their bodies, but AFL and NRL sportsman are'nt.

[Topdog]

There'd be some athletes who'd be scratching their heads.
Apparently they're responsible for what goes into their bodies, but AFL and NRL sportsman are'nt.

I wonder how Saad feels (and many others like him)

[Greystache]

I wonder how Saad feels (and many others like him)

What about Wade Lees? Got a 2 year ban with no discount for ordering a supplement online that got confiscated by customs at the airport. I guess it's easier to smash an unknown VFL player that has no resources to support him than punish a large scale professional doping program.

[Topdog]

What about Wade Lees? Got a 2 year ban with no discount for ordering a supplement online that got confiscated by customs at the airport. I guess it's easier to smash an unknown VFL player that has no resources to support him than punish a large scale professional doping program.

Exactly. I put the part in brackets cos I know there is so many bad stories and couldnt remember names.

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dean-robinsons-lawyer-granted-access-to-documents-from-rogue-operators-meeting-20140901-10ay1b.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/spin-doctor-planned-to-use-dumped-essendon-fitness-chief-dean-robinson-as-a-scapegoat-court-told/story-fni0fee2-1227043770111?nk=f3d29264330f9d2ca6b2079cdabd76e6

The impending Dean Robinson trial is proving to be the fly in the ointment for Essendon - there are some things they are powerless to suppress or control. What a dirty, morally bankrupt organisation.

[Go_Dogs]

Great, love a feel good story after a long Monday at the office.

[Sedat]

Got some more good news for you Griffen#16 - http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/secret-document-highlights-importance-of-essendon-interviews-20140901-10ay7b.html

Looks as though the players knew a hell of a lot more than they were letting on. No wonder the Bombers are in court trying to get interviews, etc...deemed unlawful. Here are some juicy paragraphs from the article that allegedly places the players front and centre in on the cover-up:

Under the subhead "prohibited substances", the report says there is "player knowledge of the storage of WADA-prohibited substances at the club based on interview transcripts and quoting examples".

It adds: "Advice from EFC personnel to individual players about WADA-prohibited substances injected, and players seeing vials based on interview transcripts and quoting examples.

"Circumstances in which players were administered substances (whether prohibited or not) at EFC and away from the club based on interview transcripts and quoting examples.

"Evidence of possible player and others use of prohibited substances based on interview transcripts and quoting examples."

[Twodogs]

Lots of second hand accounts but no actual proof.

[Sedat]

Lots of second hand accounts but no actual proof.
The accounts are from the mouths of the players, via their ASADA/AFL interviews. This is why EFC desperately wants the interviews deemed inadmissible as evidence and the ASADA/AFL 'joint' investigation deemed illegal.

[1eyedog]

The accounts are from the mouths of the players, via their ASADA/AFL interviews. This is why EFC desperately wants the interviews deemed inadmissible as evidence and the ASADA/AFL 'joint' investigation deemed illegal.

Yes that is no coincidence and really when you look at how desperate Hird was / is to scrap the player interviews from the evidence it really stinks of a cover up. Interesting that if Middleton grants that the transcripts are void ASADA can still (re)source the transcripts from the AFL. If Middleton did this and if everything really does hang on the content of these transcripts I wonder how much pressure ASADA would put on the AFL in terms of dishing out their own punishment, independent of the court proceedings, to Bomber players / managers.

[LostDoggy]

Article in the Herald Sun 'Clause in CBA agreement between AFL players and AFL gives scope for Essendon players to walk'
Wow, I'll take Heppell, Zaharakis and Carlisle thanks

[jeemak]

stevw9 - It's Ryder.

See here:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendons-paddy-ryder-on-verge-of-walkout-20140903-10c40d.html


I think he will be the first of a few seeking offers after the finals are done and dusted.

[Webby]

Article in the Herald Sun 'Clause in CBA agreement between AFL players and AFL gives scope for Essendon players to walk'
Wow, I'll take Heppell, Zaharakis and Carlisle thanks

My take on this over a year ago was that the only right and logical thing to do would be to grant all Essendon players free agency. I'm pleased to see this is likely. If the Essendon players want to stay, they can. However if they wish to leave an employer who failed in its duty of care by treating them as lab rats, they are free to do so. It's the only morally correct outcome. I'd be certain any court challenge would bear that out.

I'll have Carlisle, thanks!

[1eyedog]

My take on this over a year ago was that the only right and logical thing to do would be to grant all Essendon players free agency. I'm pleased to see this is likely. If the Essendon players want to stay, they can. However if they wish to leave an employer who failed in its duty of care by treating them as lab rats, they are free to do so. It's the only morally correct outcome. I'd be certain any court challenge would bear that out.

I'll have Carlisle, thanks!

Agreed. We are getting to the nitty gritty of the investigation and I can foresee (as others did on this board much earlier) individual player revolts against the club with Ryder the first one out.

I'll have all of the above too as well as Hibberd who at 24 can be a Murphy replacement.

[Webby]

I'd like to know if Carlisle's exploring his options post a $4.5M, 5 year deal to cross the Maribyrnong...?

[chef]

I'd like to know if Carlisle's exploring his options post a $4.5M, 5 year deal to cross the Maribyrnong...?

Yep.

We should be going all out to get Jake.

[ledge]

Is it happening now because the players don't want to have any involvement with Hird as coach, it makes sense as he did say he took full responsibility.
If I was a player and a coach pissed off overseas for a year to let me take all the brunt of his actions I wouldn't be coached under him again.

[Topdog]

Carlisle to Hawks rumours heating up too.

[bornadog]

Essendon-ASADA verdict will be handed down at 1.30pm Friday.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Peter Jess is a brave man.
For those who may not know, his offices (with large plate glass windows), are right in the heart of Essendon.
A stones throw away from Windy Hill.......

A bricks throw is what I'd be more worried about though if I was Mr. Jess.

[soupman]

Anyone else see the Jon Ralph debacle on twitter last night where he basically said having the announcement on Friday is a poor decision by the judge because it is Preliminary final weekend, as if the federal court is just another arm of the AFL.

Absolutely copped it for that statement too.

[westdog54]

Anyone else see the Jon Ralph debacle on twitter last night where he basically said having the announcement on Friday is a poor decision by the judge because it is Preliminary final weekend, as if the federal court is just another arm of the AFL.

Absolutely copped it for that statement too.
Wow. That is seriously one of the most ridiculous things a footy journo has ever said.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone else see the Jon Ralph debacle on twitter last night where he basically said having the announcement on Friday is a poor decision by the judge because it is Preliminary final weekend, as if the federal court is just another arm of the AFL.

Absolutely copped it for that statement too.
The entire nation is just another arm of the AFL though, right? Anybody??

[LostDoggy]

Anyone else think Goddard is a hypocritical terd? Condemning opposition clubs for trying to lure contracted players into using the get - out clause. Saying there is an unwritten rule and that it's unethical.

How about methodically injecting young men under your care with unknown untested substances, also unethical but there is a written law against that fortunately. Goddard is also the same man who was doing a behind the scenes deal with the Bombers a full 12 months before his contract with the Aint's expired.

Just because he has no financial gain to be had, and the potential backlash would see him playing in a heavily depleted team. Hey Brendan STFU?

Even if this situation occurs and a lot of players leave, we know the AFL will not allow them to falter too much. We could see Essendon with similar draft catalogues to GC and GWS early years with compo picks they receive

[Remi Moses]

Anyone else see the Jon Ralph debacle on twitter last night where he basically said having the announcement on Friday is a poor decision by the judge because it is Preliminary final weekend, as if the federal court is just another arm of the AFL.

Absolutely copped it for that statement too.

Jon Ralph is a peanut . Ralph Malph would be a better football writer

[bulldogtragic]

Wow. That is seriously one of the most ridiculous things a footy journo has ever said.

What a moron... What's the alternative though? A decision next week on Brownlow night, Grand Final Parade, Grand Final day??? Forget the stupidity of the gist, but a nothing day before some sport games is about as inconsequential timing for everything. An all-round dumb comment by someone meant to be smarter than us.

[Twodogs]

Thank god it's not he following friday. It might have clashed with the Grand Final parade.

[LostDoggy]

In fairness the judge himself made a quip at the commencement of proceedings about having a ball - up. Not the sort of gravitas you would expect of our federal court!

[anfo27]

Jon Ralph is a peanut . Ralph Malph would be a better football writer

Will not read anything this muppet writes.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Oh God help us all if they find in Essendon's favour.
Imagine the horror of an exultant James Hird and all the smug cult members ringing in to 3AW and SEN.

PLEEEASE NO.

[FrediKanoute]

I think it will be a half way decision. They are likely to vindicate Essendon & Hird and indicate that ASADA did breach its powers, but that the breach in itself was not enough to invalidate the findings - so chastise ASADA, but still allow them to use the info,,,,,that's just my hunch.

[Topdog]

Anyone else see the Jon Ralph debacle on twitter last night where he basically said having the announcement on Friday is a poor decision by the judge because it is Preliminary final weekend, as if the federal court is just another arm of the AFL.

Absolutely copped it for that statement too.

He really is an idiot. Often makes really stupid comments on twitter.

[jeemak]

Verdict coming in the next half hour.

Dank just arrived at the Federal Court.

[jeemak]

Live updates here:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-v-asada-judgment-day-20140919-3g3lu.html

[Sedat]

Justice Middleton: "the nature and conduct of the investigation was lawful"

Kaboom!

[Sedat]

Justice Middleton: "I dismiss the applications"

Essendon and the 34 players are now officially rooted.

[whythelongface]

Justice Middleton: "I dismiss the applications"

Essendon and the 34 players are now officially rooted.

Excellent (with the exception being the impact on Crameri)

[Sedat]

Justice Middleton: "Essendon and Hird to pay costs"

It just keeps getting better :D

[Sedat]

My favourite line from the Judge today:

"ASADA complied with the rule of law. ASADA lawfully provided the interim report to the AFL. Applications dismissed"

GAGF Essendon you cheating scum

[Hotdog60]

I just watch the last 10 mins, so Essendone lost their case what happens now.

They can appeal by the 1-10-2014 or show cause is that right?

How much longer is this going on for?

I like for them to get their just deserts and not have this go on to next season.

[bornadog]

I just watch the last 10 mins, so Essendone lost their case what happens now.

They can appeal by the 1-10-2014 or show cause is that right?

How much longer is this going on for?

I like for them to get their just deserts and not have this go on to next season.

AFL must take this into their hands and come to a conclusion. This could go on forever.

[jeemak]

I don't think this was anything other than a roll of the dice, and they would struggle to cobble together a relevant appeal.

[LostDoggy]

I hope the Teflon Kid comes out of this smelling like a rotting carcass. Scumbag he is.

[LostDoggy]

Wow.. That could not have gone any worse for Essendon.

Who wrote that article that mentioned Essendon were 0-550 at the end of tea?

The camera panning to Hird straight after the conclusion of the verdict and the eye roll given to Hird by his Lawyer was brilliant.

[jeemak]

Where is the footage located?

[The Doctor]

Watch out folks. Little and Hird will come out protesting and blaming everyone but themselves.

What a despicable pair of tossers. Surely the people at Essendon have had enough of these 2 idiots destroying their club.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Thank god for the court's finding. The game would have suffered a swinging ball from Whelan the Wrecker otherwise. So Essendon are not going to get away with this; they brought the game and competition into disrepute and hopefully there is no sympathy for their cynical and callous cheating within the football and wider community. I hope they are given severe retribution and then they and we can move on to an era in which they resurrect their credibility and worthiness to the football community.

[Remi Moses]

Wow.. That could not have gone any worse for Essendon.

Who wrote that article that mentioned Essendon were 0-550 at the end of tea?

The camera panning to Hird straight after the conclusion of the verdict and the eye roll given to Hird by his Lawyer was brilliant.

That was the Essendon groupie journos led by Warner, Robbo, Rohan Connolly .

[Remi Moses]

Hird can't coach this club , surely.
Let's go after Carlisle.

[LostDoggy]

Where is the footage located?

It was streamed live on the AFL website. They showed Middleton hand down the verdict then the camera scanned the room straight after before cutting.

Not sure if it's availble anywhere

[Remi Moses]

Mate just sent me a message
James Hird's next address at the footy will be
" drinks, lollies and potato chips";)

[Twodogs]

Hird can't coach this club , surely.

He couldn't coach to start with. Boom boom.


Let's go after Carlisle.

The AFL might have to have a mini draft for Essendon players leaving. Gold Coast and GWS will have the first 30 picks between them.

Yeah. Let's get Carlisle and then some.

[josie]

I feel so sorry for the players and the bomber's fans & members who are logical (I know a few) who think Hird should have resigned a long time ago and think this court case was a waste of time & money.

Good result thought for AFL and for fairness.

And Yep - if any of their listed players are disgruntled and they fit what we need, we should consider making offers.

[LostDoggy]

Has anyone stopped for a moment and considered Brendan Goddard in all this?


Nup, neither have i :)

[Go_Dogs]

Surprisingly the Federal Court looked at the evidence and legislation in reaching their determination. Everyone at Essendon, and indeed the AFL itself, will struggle with this foreign concept.

Good outcome. Go Middleton J.

[whythelongface]

Surprisingly the Federal Court looked at the evidence and legislation in reaching their determination. Everyone at Essendon, and indeed the AFL itself, will struggle with this foreign concept.

Good outcome. Go Middleton J.

That is the thing that baffles me. Surely from a legal standpoint they had no case. Their lawyers may have thought that there could be a nice little earner out of this - we can screw them royally;)

[Maddog37]

I laughed at Goddard suggesting it was unfair that other clubs were trying to harass and shove things down the throats of the Essendon players.

Oh the irony.

[The bulldog tragician]

I feel so sorry for the players and the bomber's fans & members who are logical (I know a few) who think Hird should have resigned a long time ago and think this court case was a waste of time & money.

Good result thought for AFL and for fairness.

And Yep - if any of their listed players are disgruntled and they fit what we need, we should consider making offers.

I haven't come across any Bombers fans that I could feel a skerrick of sympathy for. The arrogance and the delusional behaviour of Cult Hird supporters has been just about as sickening as the original behaviour with its complete contempt for the well being of their players and refusal to take responsibility. I'd like to think in a similar position Dogs fans would be disgusted at their club for basically cheating and angry that money you put into the club goes into fighting it and deifying James. Hird ( a holiday in France for disgracing the club???)

As for an appeal, it will need to be based on Law. You can't appeal because you just don't like a decision, you have to show serious errors in legal reasoning and convince three judges.

It really is time they took their lumps (was going to say medicine :) ) and showed some belated integrity, accepted their culpability and cleaned out everyone remotely associated with their drug regime.

[Go_Dogs]

That is the thing that baffles me. Surely from a legal standpoint they had no case. Their lawyers may have thought that there could be a nice little earner out of this - we can screw them royally;)

With these types of matters there is always a reason why, albeit a slim chance of succeeding on the merits, hoping a decision maker (and in this case, the general public) is impressed with window dressing in your evidence (or indeed, an opportunity for it to be heard), a delaying tactic or perhaps they're just vexatious.

I'm sure all applicants were strongly advised about the pros and cons of the bringing the application and provided written instructions confirming they wished to proceed. No doubt a good earner for the solicitors and counsel involved, but given the (litigious) clients, they would have covered their own backsides too.

[anfo27]

Justice Middleton: "Essendon and Hird to pay costs"

It just keeps getting better :D

Any idea Sedat what sort of ball park figure we are talking about here?

[Go_Dogs]

Any idea Sedat what sort of ball park figure we are talking about here?

They would be assessed or agreed. Probably somewhere in the vicinity of 50-70% of the total.

No idea what ASADA's bill would have been, but from memory it was a 3 day hearing - so somewhere upwards of $50k, maybe closer to $100k. (edit, perhaps even more on reflection.)

[The bulldog tragician]

I think this sums up EFC's likely next steps
http://titusoreily.com/paul-little-open-letter-slight-problem/

[anfo27]

They would be assessed or agreed. Probably somewhere in the vicinity of 50-70% of the total.

No idea what ASADA's bill would have been, but from memory it was a 3 day hearing - so somewhere upwards of $50k, maybe closer to $100k. (edit, perhaps even more on reflection.)

Was hoping it was a ridiculous figure.

Do not feel sorry for Essendon supporters because everyone I have met has been brainwashed. This will set them back 10 years.

[anfo27]

I think this sums up EFC's likely next steps
http://titusoreily.com/paul-little-open-letter-slight-problem/

Nice one.

[Sedat]

Any idea Sedat what sort of ball park figure we are talking about here?
About $1 million is what I'm hearing

[anfo27]

About $1 million is what I'm hearing

Now that is a figure I was hoping for!

[Go_Dogs]

Now that is a figure I was hoping for!

I'm just reading the judgment, they had 2 QC's and another fairly experienced counsel, I think $1m would be excessive, but that could indeed be the ballpark.

Wonder what the total bill for the whole saga is up to now?

[SonofScray]

Hopefully they have to rattle tins. And those tin remain empty.

[westdog54]

I'm sure it's not over yet. Essendon are pig headed enough to continue to drag this out through appeal after appeal.

Surely there must be an Essendon person out there with the influence and courage to bring on a board spill and end this madness.

[bornadog]

I'm sure it's not over yet. Essendon are pig headed enough to continue to drag this out through appeal after appeal.

Surely there must be an Essendon person out there with the influence and courage to bring on a board spill and end this madness.


That is why the AFL must use its powers and take this off Essendon for the good of the game. This needs to be resolved one way or the other or it will drag on for years with court cases, players suing the club etc etc.

[SonofScray]

That is why the AFL must use its powers and take this off Essendon for the good of the game. This needs to be resolved one way or the other or it will drag on for years with court cases, players suing the club etc etc.

Just remove them from the competition.

[GVGjr]

About $1 million is what I'm hearing

Hirds is being reported at 500K

[bornadog]

Just remove them from the competition.

Lets be realistic, that won't happen even if they deserve it.

[ledge]

I still can't see how Hird can coach next year but one things for sure he won't leave if his own accord, and thus get another million pay out for next years coaching contract.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We should not forget that the Essendon players have been the innocent victims in this long drawn out saga. It is time for Little and Hird to move on to clear the air in what has been an absolute disgrace.

[LostDoggy]

We should not forget that the Essendon players have been the innocent victims in this long drawn out saga. It is time for Little and Hird to move on to clear the air in what has been an absolute disgrace.

Agree nurture over nature with the players participation with this? While I hope the AFL throws the book at Essendon the club, I equally hope they do everything in their power to support the innocent players. (alright I wouldn't necessarily squeal if they confiscate Jobe's Brownlow!!!)

[bornadog]

Agree nurture over nature with the players participation with this? While I hope the AFL throws the book at Essendon the club, I equally hope they do everything in their power to support the innocent players. (alright I wouldn't necessarily squeal if they confiscate Jobe's Brownlow!!!)

But they have already punished the Club.

Hird, and the board must resign, a deal needs to be done with ASADA on the show cause notices which must include players not to take further action in the courts, and the whole thing is to be made history as it is tarnishing the whole AFL.

[jeemak]

Why would Paul Little resign for doing what the members wanted of him?

Sure, I can understand the club having to get the broom out to get rid of those involved with the actual actions in question, but the remaining board members have carried out the wishes of the membership which is what they're responsible for as board members.

[Before I Die]

But they have already punished the Club.

Hird, and the board must resign, a deal needs to be done with ASADA on the show cause notices which must include players not to take further action in the courts, and the whole thing is to be made history as it is tarnishing the whole AFL.

Please, no deals. Follow due process.

The players give their full support to the investigation and hold nothing back and they get the available discounts. They do their time and we all move on. Talk of deals is counterproductive and it will just undermine Australian sport's credibility and force WADA to get involved.

[GVGjr]

Why would Paul Little resign for doing what the members wanted of him?

Sure, I can understand the club having to get the broom out to get rid of those involved with the actual actions in question, but the remaining board members have carried out the wishes of the membership which is what they're responsible for as board members.

I can't see why he would resign. He has to try and dig them out of this mess or get a reasonable compromise.

[FrediKanoute]

Whilst its nice to play the players as innocent victims in all of this they aren't. Every player knows that they have an obligation to make sure that what they put into their body is legitimate and within the ASADA/WADA guidelines. Whilst there may be grounds that the players were coerced and that their employer did not take reasonable care, the fact remains that they potentially ingested substances that would/should have given them an advantage over other teams.

I for one believe that ASADA should just proceed. Appeal or no appeal, unless Essendon get an injunction preventing the ASADA's show cause notices from applying, the process should continue. I can't see an injunction being granted. In my mind players who co-operate and provide information which is helpful to ASADA should be given reduced bans. The reductions should work on a sliding scale so that the first to co-operate get a more reduction than the last and in that case I would be applying extreme pressure on Cameri to co-operate!

[ledge]

What about the Jobe Watson admittance, isn't that guilty ? Why does he still have his brownlow and why did he get it in the first place ?

[The bulldog tragician]

Whilst its nice to play the players as innocent victims in all of this they aren't. Every player knows that they have an obligation to make sure that what they put into their body is legitimate and within the ASADA/WADA guidelines. Whilst there may be grounds that the players were coerced and that their employer did not take reasonable care, the fact remains that they potentially ingested substances that would/should have given them an advantage over other teams.

I for one believe that ASADA should just proceed. Appeal or no appeal, unless Essendon get an injunction preventing the ASADA's show cause notices from applying, the process should continue. I can't see an injunction being granted. In my mind players who co-operate and provide information which is helpful to ASADA should be given reduced bans. The reductions should work on a sliding scale so that the first to co-operate get a more reduction than the last and in that case I would be applying extreme pressure on Cameri to co-operate!

I'm glad you pointed this out. I feel pity for the players to a degree because they put their faith in the club but this excuse doesn't wash in any other sport; Olympians would be rightly furious at seeing this saga. Even if it means us losing Crameri for some time next year, I think that a meaningful suspension (not the Cronulla backdated farce) needs to be applied if the AFL is at all serious about this issue. I would be very keen for Crameri to come forward, say that he was misled, take his penalty and get on with his career.

[Remi Moses]

Poses a whole new question on what happens with Stuie Crameri?

[westdog54]

What about the Jobe Watson admittance, isn't that guilty ? Why does he still have his brownlow and why did he get it in the first place ?

The show cause notices relate exclusively to the use of Thymosin Beta 4, not AOD-9604, which is what he discussed in the interview.

[ledge]

We go on about elite athletes knowing what's going in their body and that's fair enough If its a single person sport like cycling or boxing or athletics but in a team sport and the team is told by coaches or whoever is at the club it's fine and you are young and getting a wage you never dreamed of in a so called professional club, who are you to question it?
And don't forget the awkward part of questioning something when for all you know it's a normal part of being in the AFL.
For example at work I'm asked to do things I haven't done before and just accept it. I work for a huge company why would I think that anything they do is illegal ?
Single person sports are easier to find blame than team sports.
Fact is it was the club doing illegal things, the players were the guinea pigs, in hindsight yes they should have asked questions etc but yeah in hindsight I should have picked the winner in the Melbourne cup but I didn't.

[Dry Rot]

But they have already punished the Club.



No they haven't, not for this. Previously it was poor governance IIRC.

[westdog54]

What about the Jobe Watson admittance, isn't that guilty ? Why does he still have his brownlow and why did he get it in the first place ?

The show cause notices relate exclusively to the use of Thymosin Beta 4, not AOD-9604, which is what he discussed in the interview.

[jeemak]

I can't see the players being given too harsh a penalty.

Six to twelve months out of competition dated from the date of infraction (this week) would be about it I think.

[Before I Die]

We go on about elite athletes knowing what's going in their body and that's fair enough If its a single person sport like cycling or boxing or athletics but in a team sport and the team is told by coaches or whoever is at the club it's fine and you are young and getting a wage you never dreamed of in a so called professional club, who are you to question it?
And don't forget the awkward part of questioning something when for all you know it's a normal part of being in the AFL.
For example at work I'm asked to do things I haven't done before and just accept it. I work for a huge company why would I think that anything they do is illegal ?
Single person sports are easier to find blame than team sports.
Fact is it was the club doing illegal things, the players were the guinea pigs, in hindsight yes they should have asked questions etc but yeah in hindsight I should have picked the winner in the Melbourne cup but I didn't.

How is it different if you are in a cycling team as opposed to a football team?

[bulldogtragic]

I hope Gordon Legal wrote Stew's contract.

[jeemak]

We go on about elite athletes knowing what's going in their body and that's fair enough If its a single person sport like cycling or boxing or athletics but in a team sport and the team is told by coaches or whoever is at the club it's fine and you are young and getting a wage you never dreamed of in a so called professional club, who are you to question it?
And don't forget the awkward part of questioning something when for all you know it's a normal part of being in the AFL.
For example at work I'm asked to do things I haven't done before and just accept it. I work for a huge company why would I think that anything they do is illegal ?
Single person sports are easier to find blame than team sports.
Fact is it was the club doing illegal things, the players were the guinea pigs, in hindsight yes they should have asked questions etc but yeah in hindsight I should have picked the winner in the Melbourne cup but I didn't.

Ledge, when you look at it big business and big government are responsible for the most disgusting atrocities to ever blight this lovely planet (I'm leaving religion out of this much to the chagrin of libertarians and others of their ilk). I'd start asking questions more regularly at work if I was you.

There is no way any of these players should have allowed any of these substances to be injected into them without getting a complete record of what they contained to hang to for their own records. These sorts of acts should be the bare minimum any player should be responsible for if they sign up to the ASADA and WADA codes (which they all did).

This issue is a massive failing of the entire football industry, not just the EFC. When I go to a doctor and receive an injection I sure as shit keep a record of what was supposed to have been injected into me. Why on Earth should we allow AFL players to be subject to a lesser standard than what we are generally subject to for Medicare?

Their careers are subject to ensuring no illegal substances are pumped into their bodies! They can use the excuse that group think stopped them from thinking, but that sort of thinking doesn't fly in the world outside of the AFL, and it's about time the AFL caught up.

[Dry Rot]

I can't see the players being given too harsh a penalty.



I can. I think they'll throw the book at them.

[jeemak]

I can. I think they'll throw the book at them.

Why?

[Remi Moses]

They won't throw the book at them

[Dry Rot]

Word up here in Sydney: ASADA is going after the 3 Cronulla players who didn't roll over.

The Dons and their players didn't rollover. ASADA will make an example of them.

Think about it. ASADA has to. Otherwise they are joke (remember that drugs in sport is broader than the AFL).

[FrediKanoute]

We go on about elite athletes knowing what's going in their body and that's fair enough If its a single person sport like cycling or boxing or athletics but in a team sport and the team is told by coaches or whoever is at the club it's fine and you are young and getting a wage you never dreamed of in a so called professional club, who are you to question it?
And don't forget the awkward part of questioning something when for all you know it's a normal part of being in the AFL.
For example at work I'm asked to do things I haven't done before and just accept it. I work for a huge company why would I think that anything they do is illegal ?
Single person sports are easier to find blame than team sports.
Fact is it was the club doing illegal things, the players were the guinea pigs, in hindsight yes they should have asked questions etc but yeah in hindsight I should have picked the winner in the Melbourne cup but I didn't.

I can't agree Ledge. If more players questioned the practice, especially the senior guys then this wouldn't have happened or most likely would have come to light much quicker. That's what leadership is, being prepared to question. This scenario at Essendon reeks of Group Think. That's not good enough and its also no excuse as to why any player should be treated lightly. Healthy organisations encourage questioning. They encourage staff/employees to make themselves informed. If the players were willing to blindly accept what it was the medico's were injecting that's stupidity; if they felt coerced into being injected without question then that is unhealthy.

[Greystache]

There is no way any of these players should have allowed any of these substances to be injected into them without getting a complete record of what they contained to hang to for their own records. These sorts of acts should be the bare minimum any player should be responsible for if they sign up to the ASADA and WADA codes (which they all did).

This is where the issue for the players begins and ends for me, everything else is for the club to answer for. If I'm a player and the club announces they are starting a radical injecting program that is to operate in the grey area of the law then I'm going to be diligent to the nth degree to ensure I'm not putting my career at risk. I would keep a folder outing every injection I'm given, the date, the location, a copy of the label that is on the bottle, and a signature from the doctor that he agrees this is what I'm being given. None of this is unreasonable, and if the club/doctor won't give it to me, then they don't inject. No ifs or butts.

Granted I'm perhaps more academic or anal than many, but I find it highly unlikely there's no player out of the 42 that's diligent enough to request this.

[jeemak]

This is where the issue for the players begins and ends for me, everything else is for the club to answer for. If I'm a player and the club announces they are starting a radical injecting program that is to operate in the grey area of the law then I'm going to be diligent to the nth degree to ensure I'm not putting my career at risk. I would keep a folder outing every injection I'm given, the date, the location, a copy of the label that is on the bottle, and a signature from the doctor that he agrees this is what I'm being given. None of this is unreasonable, and if the club/doctor won't give it to me, then they don't inject. No ifs or butts.

Granted I'm perhaps more academic or anal than many, but I find it highly unlikely there's no player out of the 42 that's diligent enough to request this.

And this is where the broader football industry has to wear some culpability.

How can player agents not be close enough to multi-million dollar clients to the point where they are being bumped with unidentified substances on a weekly basis?

At which point did one of the 34 players at EFC actually say to someone - "hey guy's, they're treating us like pin cushions!"?

It just goes to show that this competition is bumpkinville compared to other industries in this country. It continually presents itself as the best and most cutting edge when it comes to compliance and governance, but time and time again it gets found out to be extremely lacking from the top down. The AFL would not last two seconds with any reasonable competition against it.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx5ff17CQAAXwdq.jpg:large

[Twodogs]

I think this sums up EFC's likely next steps
http://titusoreily.com/paul-little-open-letter-slight-problem/

Love this sentence.


I want to also personally assure you that the board is committed to this path of destruction we are currently on.


So scarily true.

[westdog54]

They won't throw the book at them

The way Essendon have fought this from pillar to post, ASADA have been backed into a corner.

They have no option left in the kit bag but to throw the book at them.

[Scraggers]

What about the Jobe Watson admittance, isn't that guilty ? Why does he still have his brownlow and why did he get it in the first place ?


The show cause notices relate exclusively to the use of Thymosin Beta 4, not AOD-9604, which is what he discussed in the interview.

I agree Westdog, but if Watson takes ASADA's next offer of a shorter sentence (which is what Ben McDevitt is apparently going to offer after the Show Cause Notices are re-issued), then this is an admittance of guilt. This means he is pleading guilty to use of both drugs.

If he does take the offer, the Brownlow must be stripped from him. This means Trent Cotchin and Sam Mitchell should be awarded the medal as they tied for second place.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If anyone has the stomach. Go and check what Essendon supporters are saying to each other on their bigfooty threads.

THEY STILL DON'T GET IT FFS!!!!!!

They are all lemmings who will follow Hird straight over the cliff.
And as they lie shattered on the rocks below, with every bone in their bodies broken, every organ ruptured and every orifice bleeding. With the bodies of their comrades falling all around them like red and black rain.
They will still praise James with the last living breath they take.

When will this madness end? Another appeal?
And what about the nonsense? "we only want to do what's right for the players"

AND Mark Robinson is there urging them on. That guy is just becoming more and more pitiful as this saga drags on.

'Hird mentality' is a new phrase in the english language from now on.

[westdog54]

I agree Westdog, but if Watson takes ASADA's next offer of a shorter sentence (which is what Ben McDevitt is apparently going to offer after the Show Cause Notices are re-issued), then this is an admittance of guilt. This means he is pleading guilty to use of both drugs.

If he does take the offer, the Brownlow must be stripped from him. This means Trent Cotchin and Sam Mitchell should be awarded the medal as they tied for second place.

I agree but you can't take the interview as admission of guilt because ASADA aren't proceeding on the AOD-9604 matters.

Can anyone honestly see anyone at Essenfob taking any sort of deal now? As far as I'm concerned the fact that Essendon followed through with the Federal Court action should see any offers taken off the table. The players were represented at that hearing.

[FrediKanoute]

What are the grounds for appeal? Appeals review errors of law. It will be extremely hard for Essendon and co to argue that Middletons decision is an error of law, because the legislation is framed so broadly. In my mind they really trying to string this out. When the issue was brought to light they had 40 potential players on their list who were affected. Now it's 30 and in another 18 months it could be around 15. ASADA Should just plow ahead, work a divide and conquer angle and get it done.

[The bulldog tragician]

I would be feeling very somber if I were an Essendon fan convinced that the. Bombres will get leniency. This is a good explanation of why the. Cronulla and Essendon situations are poles apart.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/cronulla-sharks/essendon-bombers-players-could-face-12month-bans-following-federal-court-ruling-20140919-10jhnf.html

[jeemak]

I agree but you can't take the interview as admission of guilt because ASADA aren't proceeding on the AOD-9604 matters.

Can anyone honestly see anyone at Essenfob taking any sort of deal now? As far as I'm concerned the fact that Essendon followed through with the Federal Court action should see any offers taken off the table. The players were represented at that hearing.

There's nothing wrong with testing something in court though, as vexatious as this might have seemed (ASADA were awarded costs).

I'm not sure a transparent and thorough process should be biased by the court hearing.

[westdog54]

There's nothing wrong with testing something in court though, as vexatious as this might have seemed (ASADA were awarded costs).

I'm not sure a transparent and thorough process should be biased by the court hearing.

Any discount should be based on cooperation with the investigation. This has been virtually non existent.

[jeemak]

Any discount should be based on cooperation with the investigation. This has been virtually non existent.

I disagree.

They all were willingly interviewed, no evidence has been covered up (as far as I know).

When you cut through it, the noise is actually all generated by James Hird because he knows he's cooked, and Little doing for the club what its members want him to do.

The players have been issued show cause notices, they tested the validity of them in court, that's now done and dusted so they now can either fight them or roll over (cooperate).

[Hotdog60]

I wonder if Paddy will be the first to comply.

[westdog54]

I disagree.

They all were willingly interviewed, no evidence has been covered up (as far as I know).

When you cut through it, the noise is actually all generated by James Hird because he knows he's cooked, and Little doing for the club what its members want him to do.

The players have been issued show cause notices, they tested the validity of them in court, that's now done and dusted so they now can either fight them or roll over (cooperate).

Willingly interviewed? Part of the club's claim was that ASADA misused the AFL's coercive powers. I can't see how they can day one thing in court and then contradict themselves in pleading for mercy.

If they don't think ASADA had the evidence then the AFL tribunal is the forum for that to be decided. All that was tested in court was the legitimacy of the investigation?

[JohnGentStand]

While all the rhetoric of the day spouted 'full co-operation', it staggers me that 'no-one knows' what they were injected with.....
No records or receipts to speak of.
Reeks of cover-up.
Reeks.
I'm not buying.

[Twodogs]

Willingly interviewed? Part of the club's claim was that ASADA misused the AFL's coercive powers. I can't see how they can day one thing in court and then contradict themselves in pleading for mercy.

If they don't think ASADA had the evidence then the AFL tribunal is the forum for that to be decided. All that was tested in court was the legitimacy of the investigation?

We should keep in mind that ASADA is more your ''kangaroo" court than your Due Process type of court too.

They come across as moralistic and vindictive, though I can see why they have to tend that way.

[westdog54]

Again, can't agree with that.

By its very nature, a 'show cause' notice gives a player a chance to do just that, show why they should not be charged with an offence, not dissimilar to a commital hearing in the criminal jurisdiction


The only way they could provide more 'due process' would be to wear ridiculous wigs during hearings.

[Twodogs]

Again, can't agree with that.

By its very nature, a 'show cause' notice gives a player a chance to do just that, show why they should not be charged with an offence, not dissimilar to a commital hearing in the criminal jurisdiction


The only way they could provide more 'due process' would be to wear ridiculous wigs during hearings.

It's not a charge it's a violation. The same body that is prosecuting is judging. That's not natural justice.

[westdog54]

It's not a charge it's a violation. The same body that is prosecuting is judging. That's not natural justice.

The AFL tribunal will judge based on the infraction notice. WADA then have the right of appeal if they don't like the result.

[Twodogs]

The AFL tribunal will judge based on the infraction notice. WADA then have the right of appeal if they don't like the result.


If a deal is reached the AFL tribunal isn't involved is it. My problem is with a player who may ave done nothing having no choice but to plead guilty and take the deal rather than being railroaded into worse on flimsy evidence at the AFL appointed tribunal.

[westdog54]

If a deal is reached the AFL tribunal isn't involved is it. My problem is with a player who may ave done nothing having no choice but to plead guilty and take the deal rather than being railroaded into worse on flimsy evidence at the AFL appointed tribunal.

The way I see it if the evidence was 'flimsy' Essendon wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying to get the whole investigation thrown out.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm not sure Essendon is quite sure of the inventory of evidence ASADA has. They were so confident yestday even Dank wriggled out of the woodwork and was then sent scurrying from the glare of the media when the decision swung the other way. I thing they have totally misread the situation. When people use a football club's banner for their own personal agenda it lowers the whole sport. Former legends are to be regarded with caution as coaches.

[Sedat]

The way I see it if the evidence was 'flimsy' Essendon wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying to get the whole investigation thrown out.
Spot on. The evidence is watertight linking industrial strength quantities of banned performance enhancing drugs (TB4) to the EFC - ASADA doesn't issue show cause notices for fun, they only do so when their case is tighter than a drum. Their systematic doping is the modern day equivalent of East German athletes in the 70's and Chinese swimmers in the 90's. It has been a sight to behold watching the hubris and arrogance of Hird and Little drag their club further and further into the abyss.

I don't have a massive amount of sympathy for the players either - if a moron like Riemers starts asking questions about the radical increase in injections off site from the club, it is unfathomable for the playing group to cite ignorance. I remember reading an article in The Age in late 2011 quoting Jobe Watson and his surprise at the rate of muscle growth in the players even after only a couple of weeks in the pre season. Not an article that sheds ignorance as a plausible excuse to their self-inflicted plight. Watson as captain is particularly accountable, and should he be found guilty of doping he simply cannot keep his Brownlow or AA awards since 2012.

EFC are getting done slowly and I'm loving every minute of it.

[SonofScray]

EFC are getting done slowly and I'm loving every minute of it.

Absolutely. Their biggest protective factor and the subsequent ego of that Club are proving to be their biggest failing. I have no doubt the top end of town worked hard to give EFC an easy out and sweep things under the carpet. EFC though, far too proud and lacking in insight have pushed the boundaries and now will be found out.

I want this club torn to shreds. Essendon OUT.

[Ghost Dog]

It's embarrassing to see these people, who call themselves ' sportsmen' or representitives of sporting clubs, stand in front of a microphone and tell the world they feel they have done nothing wrong.
The whole idea of sporsmanlike behaviour is out the window. 'Whatever it takes' is a blight on the game.

[JohnGentStand]

I can't agree with the "I want the EFC thrown out sentiment".
Due process and punishment for any proven misgivings will do.
I cant help but think the Paddy Ryder walk-out could be a benefit to the comp in EFC's worst case scenario.
Players all effectively become free agents - 6 or so walk - + natural attrition of list (retirements, delistings etc.) dilutes the number of players still on their list affected....
They still field a team, albeit younger & weaker & threadbare.

[Topdog]

I can't see why he would resign. He has to try and dig them out of this mess or get a reasonable compromise.

Not sure if you follow the NRL but their players have already taken a punishment which is essentially 3 weeks of pre season training off. Essendon had this option available to them and rejected it to go to court. Little has screwed up and he has done so because he is desperate to help Hird. He should also resign for giving Hird a contract extension and a 1 year paid holiday. The members most certainly did not want that.

[ledge]

Two narcissists at work in one place, just need AKer down there now to complete the stooges, then again he might be their advisor

[LostDoggy]

Poses a whole new question on what happens with Stuie Crameri?

Justice, whatever that may be. As soon as we ask for otherwise because he's a Bulldog, we become as bad as Essendon.


We go on about elite athletes knowing what's going in their body and that's fair enough If its a single person sport like cycling or boxing or athletics but in a team sport and the team is told by coaches or whoever is at the club it's fine and you are young and getting a wage you never dreamed of in a so called professional club, who are you to question it?
And don't forget the awkward part of questioning something when for all you know it's a normal part of being in the AFL.
For example at work I'm asked to do things I haven't done before and just accept it. I work for a huge company why would I think that anything they do is illegal ?
Single person sports are easier to find blame than team sports.
Fact is it was the club doing illegal things, the players were the guinea pigs, in hindsight yes they should have asked questions etc but yeah in hindsight I should have picked the winner in the Melbourne cup but I didn't.
Dustin Fletcher. What the hell was Fletch saying when all this was going on? He's no green kid.

Ledge, when you look at it big business and big government are responsible for the most disgusting atrocities to ever blight this lovely planet (I'm leaving religion out of this much to the chagrin of libertarians and others of their ilk). I'd start asking questions more regularly at work if I was you.

There is no way any of these players should have allowed any of these substances to be injected into them without getting a complete record of what they contained to hang to for their own records. These sorts of acts should be the bare minimum any player should be responsible for if they sign up to the ASADA and WADA codes (which they all did).

This issue is a massive failing of the entire football industry, not just the EFC. When I go to a doctor and receive an injection I sure as shit keep a record of what was supposed to have been injected into me. Why on Earth should we allow AFL players to be subject to a lesser standard than what we are generally subject to for Medicare?

Their careers are subject to ensuring no illegal substances are pumped into their bodies! They can use the excuse that group think stopped them from thinking, but that sort of thinking doesn't fly in the world outside of the AFL, and it's about time the AFL caught up.
Amen.

Two narcissists at work in one place, just need AKer down there now to complete the stooges, then again he might be their advisor
To be fair to Aker, he's one of the only players to ever stand up to this sort of thing in a public setting, rightly or wrongly.

[bornadog]

Essendon players ready to listen to ASADA deal offers


With embattled Essendon chairman Paul Little scheduled to face his rivals at a meeting of the 18 clubs on Monday, Fairfax Media understands lawyers for the 34 players will outline a series of choices and recommend the players move forward, regardless of Essendon's next move.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-ready-to-listen-to-asada-deal-offers-20140921-10k2ew.html#ixzz3DxB7bDLZ

[Dry Rot]

Has anyone posted this?

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/09/19/no-fence-sitting-essendon-and-james-hird-learn-the-hard-way/

The Dons are rooted.

[bornadog]

ASADA waiting on Essendon and Hird to see if they appeal - deadline is October 10. If there is no appeal, ASADA will present show cause notices again with evidence. The players will have 10 days to respond.

ASDA is also willing to negotiate with any player that comes forward.

[bulldogtragic]

Stew should deal. Gordon can handle himself in high powered negotiations, so that will be the best offer he gets.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Absolutely, I think Stew didn't handle the season well when the ASDA hit the fan. Nothing to loss, get in first, you miss a pre season and back for round one.

No brainer to me!

[jeemak]

I would suggest Stew keep his mouth shut until he sees the evidence ASADA have to put on the table.

[Topdog]

I would suggest Stew keep his mouth shut until he sees the evidence ASADA have to put on the table.

Hasn't he already seen it when the first notice was shown?

[jeemak]

Hasn't he already seen it when the first notice was shown?

I don't think so.

Of course I could be wrong however, the first lot of show cause notices came out with a summary of notice and then the injunction was issued.

This time around I think they're reissuing the show cause notices with evidence.

[bornadog]

Hasn't he already seen it when the first notice was shown?


I don't think so.

Of course I could be wrong however, the first lot of show cause notices came out with a summary of notice and then the injunction was issued.

This time around I think they're reissuing the show cause notices with evidence.

Correct - and evidence could be damming.

[jeemak]

Well you'd hope it is, otherwise this is a complete farce.

[Greystache]

I don't think so.

Of course I could be wrong however, the first lot of show cause notices came out with a summary of notice and then the injunction was issued.

This time around I think they're reissuing the show cause notices with evidence.

Correct. ASADA aren't going to show their hand while Essendon are hoping to get off on a technicality.

[Axe Man]

Did anyone see the Sunday Footy Show earlier? Barrett thinks that Crameri is going to be the first to break ranks and deal with ASADA, but he won't be the last.

[ledge]

Did anyone see the Sunday Footy Show earlier? Barrett thinks that Crameri is going to be the first to break ranks and deal with ASADA, but he won't be the last.

I think Ryder will be right behind him if he doesn't get to where he wants to go.
Essendon need to treat its players like kings, only takes one to get pissed off and that's a problem as they have to delist some.

[GVGjr]

Did anyone see the Sunday Footy Show earlier? Barrett thinks that Crameri is going to be the first to break ranks and deal with ASADA, but he won't be the last.

This is being reported at the moment.

Former Essendon player Stewart Crameri, who was one of the 32 past or present Essendon players issued with a show cause notice will look to now broker a deal with ASADA according to the Sunday Footy Show.

With Ryder and Monfries likely to follow.

I think this is a good move by Crameri.

[Sedat]

Music to my ears. Tell them everything Stew

[KT31]

This is being reported at the moment.

Former Essendon player Stewart Crameri, who was one of the 32 past or present Essendon players issued with a show cause notice will look to now broker a deal with ASADA according to the Sunday Footy Show.

With Ryder and Monfries likely to follow.

I think this is a good move by Crameri.

Agree, IMO for Crameri to come forward would be the best coarse of action.
Once this is all behind him he will be far better off, not only for his football but also for his health.

[bornadog]

This is being reported at the moment.

Former Essendon player Stewart Crameri, who was one of the 32 past or present Essendon players issued with a show cause notice will look to now broker a deal with ASADA according to the Sunday Footy Show.

With Ryder and Monfries likely to follow.

I think this is a good move by Crameri.

I thought it was 34 players? Anyway, it would be easier to do this if you are no longer at Essendon.

[azabob]

I asked this earlier in the piece, but was Brent Prismal at Essendon at the time and secondly is he still in an official capacity with the Western Bulldogs as player welfare manager?

If the answer is yes to both, what happens to him?

[bornadog]

I asked this earlier in the piece, but was Brent Prismal at Essendon at the time and secondly is he still in an official capacity with the Western Bulldogs as player welfare manager?

If the answer is yes to both, what happens to him?

Maybe as he left Essendon in 2012

[ledge]

I asked this earlier in the piece, but was Brent Prismal at Essendon at the time and secondly is he still in an official capacity with the Western Bulldogs as player welfare manager?

If the answer is yes to both, what happens to him?

Well at least he has experience first hand in how essendon stuffed up
Player welfare

[The Doctor]

If this is true watch out for an announcement from Essendon sledging Crameri as a disaffected former employee motivated by financial opportunism or something to that affect.

[Topdog]

I asked this earlier in the piece, but was Brent Prismal at Essendon at the time and secondly is he still in an official capacity with the Western Bulldogs as player welfare manager?

If the answer is yes to both, what happens to him?

ASADA can only stop him from playing.

[Greystache]

It's being reported that Essendon and Hird won't appeal the High Court verdict and ASADA will move onto re-issuing the show cause notices.

Some Essendon supporters I was talking to said they're just glad it's finally over and the club and players can get on with playing football! They just don't get it.

[Twodogs]

It's being reported that Essendon and Hird won't appeal the High Court verdict and ASADA will move onto re-issuing the show cause notices.

Some Essendon supporters I was talking to said they're just glad it's finally over and the club and players can get on with playing football! They just don't get it.

Yep. They will be the first complaining when the sanctions are handed out.