1978 & What Might've been..

[Webby]

Looking at our developing list just recently, I got in the time machine and had a look at the possible “alternate universe “ list that we might’ve had in 1978 – had the club been a lot stronger & more stable in the mid-late 1970’s.
Here is a list of the current players who we had/should have had for rd 1, 1978.

Player, Age at Rd 1, 1978 and brief summation:

Gary Dempsey, 29, Brownlow Medallist, multiple B&F, all-time great
Ian Hampshire, 29, Tough as nails, 200+ gamer who would coach club
Barry Round, 28, Would become Brownlow Medallist & Swans Team of Century member
Ken Newland, 28, 200+ game league footballer. Returned to Geelong after 1 year
Laurie Sandilands, 28, Club captain who left for Collingwood
Stephen Power, 27, Solid performer
Peter Welsh, 26, Solid performer
Bernie Quinlan, 26, Would become Brownlow & Coleman Medallist & Fitzroy TOC member
Robert McGhie, 26, Dual Richmond Premiership Centre Half Back
Geoff Jennings, 23, Became club captain & dual Big V representative
Ian Dunstan, 23, Would win 3 club B&F’s
Terry Wheeler, 23, Hard as nails defender who would coach club
Alan Stoneham, 22, Talented player who would play 200+ league games
Bruce Reid, 22, Solid performer who would’ve netted BEN & Sam Reid under F/S
Ted Whitten Junior, 21, Massively talented son of the best (& Big V representative, silky smooth ball user)
Kelvin Templeton, 21, Would become Brownlow & Coleman Medallist
Mick Egan, 20, Went on to Big V and club vice captaincy.
Jim Edmond, 19, Future club captain & CHF
Doug Hawkins, 17, Champion 350 game player
Brian Wilson, 16, Future Brownlow Medallist & 200+ game player
Peter Featherby, 25, Would win Geelong b&f in '81
Fred Cook, 27, Arguably Victoria's highest profile footballer circa 1978


The list contains eleven players who were either Brownlow medallists, league club captains, multiple club B&F winners, or club team of the century members, or all of the above..! Ten!
It contained four future 300 gamers, eight 200 gamers, four Brownlow Medallists and two key position forwards who kicked 1400+ career goals between them.

This was the vintage list that wasn’t!

Had these players been retained together, this group would have gone seriously close to a premiership from 1978-82... As it was, we finished bottom four in every one of these years..

.... Then there was the re-zoning of 1974 which removed the town of Drouin and a certain Ablett family from our zone... But I won't go into that...

[LostDoggy]

.... Then there was the re-zoning of 1974 which removed the town of Drouin and a certain Ablett family from our zone... But I won't go into that...

Geez didn't know that.

[Webby]

Yep. Although it was actually '73, not '74.

Geoff played 229 league games and won premierships in 1976 & 78... And Gary, well, Gary's Gary!....

And Gary junior's Gary junior!

[Jam Donuts]

Don't forget the great KT, I know he did his knee but add him to the list and it is simply wonderful.

[Webby]

Don't forget the great KT, I know he did his knee but add him to the list and it is simply wonderful.

Thanks for spotting that. I had him on my list but missed him when transferring it typed form.
Just edited the post above.

[Remi Moses]

Remember a great comeback win against Essendon in 78.
Remember copping a hiding from Fitzroy at the w/o early in the year.
A certain "super boot" killed us . The record score ( didn't go!)
Imagine KT and Bernie in the one side!
Brian Wilson was a precocious talent and got the flick because he couldn't run around Flemington racecourse in a certain time.
Mind you he was a kid coming off completing his HSC.

[Prince Imperial]

You could probably include Peter Featherby in that list. Played for us in 75-76 before returning home to Perth and then re-emerging at Geelong in '79. An absolute possession freak centreman (who once got 48 in a game!) he won the Cat's B&F in '81 when they finished third on the ladder. :(

[Webby]

Brian Wilson was a precocious talent and got the flick because he couldn't run around Flemington racecourse in a certain time.
Mind you he was a kid coming off completing his HSC.

Yeah, Royce Hart flicked him, didn't he? Royce was in another stratosphere as a player and a bloke, apparently.

That's a big plus on-field, but a big negative off it. The only bloke he "got" was KT... Mind you, if he'd had the list of champions above, who knows?

Blight looked like a dill as the Norf and 'Aints coach, but with some crazy talent at Geelong and Adelaide, he looked a genius..

[Remi Moses]

Yeah, Royce Hart flicked him, didn't he? Royce was in another stratosphere as a player and a bloke, apparently.

That's a big plus on-field, but a big negative off it. The only bloke he "got" was KT... Mind you, if he'd had the list of champions above,

Blight looked like a dill as the Norf and 'Aints coach, but with some crazy talent at Geelong and Adelaide, he looked a genius..

Bernie killed us in his first game against us. Royce was terrible he constantly referred to our under 19's winning and what talent we had coming through. Super McPherson was the only footballer to come out of that side.

[Twodogs]

Bernie killed us in his first game against us. Royce was terrible he constantly referred to our under 19's winning and what talent we had coming through. Super McPherson was the only footballer to come out of that side.

Magic too.

[Twodogs]

Looking at our developing list just recently, I got in the time machine and had a look at the possible “alternate universe “ list that we might’ve had in 1978 – had the club been a lot stronger & more stable in the mid-late 1970’s.
Here is a list of the current players who we had/should have had for rd 1, 1978.

Player, Age at Rd 1, 1978 and brief summation:

Gary Dempsey, 29, Brownlow Medallist, multiple B&F, all-time great
Ian Hampshire, 29, Tough as nails, 200+ gamer who would coach club
Barry Round, 28, Would become Brownlow Medallist & Swans Team of Century member
Ken Newland, 28, 200+ game league footballer. Returned to Geelong after 1 year
Laurie Sandilands, 28, Club captain who left for Collingwood
Stephen Power, 27, Solid performer
Peter Welsh, 26, Solid performer
Bernie Quinlan, 26, Would become Brownlow & Coleman Medallist & Fitzroy TOC member
Robert McGhie, 26, Dual Richmond Premiership Centre Half Back
Geoff Jennings, 23, Became club captain & dual Big V representative
Ian Dunstan, 23, Would win 3 club B&F’s
Terry Wheeler, 23, Hard as nails defender who would coach club
Alan Stoneham, 22, Talented player who would play 200+ league games
Bruce Reid, 22, Solid performer who would’ve netted BEN & Sam Reid under F/S
Ted Whitten Junior, 21, Massively talented son of the best (& Big V representative, silky smooth ball user)
Kelvin Templeton, 21, Would become Brownlow & Coleman Medallist
Mick Egan, 20, Solid performer
Jim Edmond, 19, Future club captain & CHF
Doug Hawkins, 17, Champion 350 game player
Brian Wilson, 16, Future Brownlow Medallist & 200+ game player

The list contains ten players who were either Brownlow medallists, league club captains, multiple club B&F winners, or club team of the century members, or all of the above..! Ten!
It contained four future 300 gamers, eight 200 gamers, four Brownlow Medallists and two key position forwards who kicked 1400+ career goals between them.

This was the vintage list that wasn’t!

Had these players been retained together, this group would have gone seriously close to a premiership from 1978-82... As it was, we finished bottom four in every one of these years..

.... Then there was the re-zoning of 1974 which removed the town of Drouin and a certain Ablett family from our zone... But I won't go into that...


Mick Egan a solid performer?

Club captain. Big Vee. Career virtually over by the time he was 25 with that big knee. I had him on my duffel coat in 1979.

[Webby]

Mick Egan a solid performer?

Club captain. Big Vee. Career virtually over by the time he was 25 with that big knee. I had him on my duffel coat in 1979.

Yeah, fair call. Vice captain from memory. I'd forgotten about his Big V appearances. Would've stood in as skipper post KT's/Jennings' injuries... Captaining Footscray was a jinx for injuries in those days!!

I'll edit the post.

[craigsahibee]

.... Then there was the re-zoning of 1974 which removed the town of Drouin and a certain Ablett family from our zone... But I won't go into that...

That old Zone set up must have been strange. I know we had a fair chunk of Gippsland to ourselves. KT/Quinlan ex Traralgon, Royal ex Bairnsdale came from the East of the Region, and Mick McKenna (Beacosnfield) and Matt Johnson (Berwick) to the West, so how was Drouin removed from our Zone and with what justification?

I work in Drouin and my Boss tells me that he followed the Bulldogs growing up (although he is not an avid footy follower) but switched to Hawthorn when a few of his mates from the area started to be recruited to the Hawks including Gary Ayres.

What might have been

[bornadog]

The story of our lives........... what might have been, if only, what if, etc etc.

[Webby]

That old Zone set up must have been strange. I know we had a fair chunk of Gippsland to ourselves. KT/Quinlan ex Traralgon, Royal ex Bairnsdale came from the East of the Region, and Mick McKenna (Beacosnfield) and Matt Johnson (Berwick) to the West, so how was Drouin removed from our Zone and with what justification?

I work in Drouin and my Boss tells me that he followed the Bulldogs growing up (although he is not an avid footy follower) but switched to Hawthorn when a few of his mates from the area started to be recruited to the Hawks including Gary Ayres.

What might have been

I don't know what the reasoning was, but they chopped it off and attached it to Hawthorn's Mornington Peninsula zone, then gave us the Yarra Valley as compo...

I wonder if anyone can list the players the Yarra Valley provided and how they compare to Gary Ayres and the Abletts?!

[Remi Moses]

Stkilda lost the peninsula region to Hawthorn back in the 70's.
Missed on Ayres Matthews Brereton among others.

[bornadog]

I don't know what the reasoning was, but they chopped it off and attached it to Hawthorn's Mornington Peninsula zone, then gave us the Yarra Valley as compo...

I wonder if anyone can list the players the Yarra Valley provided and how they compare to Gary Ayres and the Abletts?!

Are you sure about the Yarra Valley? I can't find any reference to it.

Here is a link about the Zones: http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Victorian+Recruiting+Zones

[Axe Man]

I work in Drouin

So do I!

One thing I don't quite understand with the recruiting from this area - 1969 we got Barry Round from Warragul and Hawthorn got Peter Knights from Drouin - how did they manage to get Knights?

[Webby]

Are you sure about the Yarra Valley? I can't find any reference to it.

Here is a link about the Zones: http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Victorian+Recruiting+Zones

We actually got both Mick Egan and Terry Wheeler from the slight switch to Yarra Valley. They re-drew and 'tweaked' the zones borders regularly. It was borderline farcical at times.

[Webby]

Are you sure about the Yarra Valley? I can't find any reference to it.

Here is a link about the Zones: http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Victorian+Recruiting+Zones

I'm not terribly good at this linking stuff, but it gets a mention in the official club history. Try this:

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/club/history/timeline/1970s

[Twodogs]

We actually got both Mick Egan and Terry Wheeler from the slight switch to Yarra Valley. They re-drew and 'tweaked' the zones borders regularly. It was borderline farcical at times.


I'm pretty sure Mick was a local boy. I can remember him playing at the same cricket club as me when I was a junior

Have you got Wayne Foreman on your list Webby? Played with Essendon in the end.

And Gary Baker, I'm pretty he won the B&F at Melbourne one year. He certainly got a big Vee while he was there.

And Ray Huppatz who had the #7 before Doug. It was a big number to have even then. I have no idea why I just remember a big fuss about it when Doug got it. Ray Huppatz played in the 1978 Grand Final for North Melbourne. After playing almost his entire career with us. Ray was a gun.

[Webby]

I'm pretty sure Mick was a local boy. I can remember him playing at the same cricket club as me when I was a junior

Have you got Wayne Foreman on your list Webby? Played with Essendon in the end.

And Gary Baker, I'm pretty he won the B&F at Melbourne one year. He certainly got a big Vee while he was there.

And Ray Huppatz who had the #7 before Doug. It was a big number to have even then. I have no idea why I just remember a big fuss about it when Doug got it. Ray Huppatz played in the 1978 Grand Final for North Melbourne. After playing almost his entire career with us. Ray was a gun.

They're good names for the list... It's just getting bigger and bigger. Micky Egan was from Kinglake. You might've misread it as Kingsville or something as a kid and burned it to your mind. I have a tendency to do that from time to time. Both clubs wear/wore the green and gold, too.

[Twodogs]

Kinglake? Bugger me dead I could have swore he was local.

What you say makes sense though.

[craigsahibee]

Wheels came out of Warburton.

My father played a year or two with Gary Wheeler (dec.) at Kinglake also around '73/74.

I wasn't aware Mick Egan came from Kinglake originally. I knew he went there to coach them in the early 90's when they seceded from the DVFL to join the Yarra Valley Mountain District Footy League.

Collingwood recruited Gordon Sumner? from deep in the valley, either Warburton or Millgrove during the late 80's early 90's, and of course Monkhorst hails from Woori Yallock also. Seems that the boundaries are blurred.

[Webby]

I think that because the YV League was close to town, it might've mashed into some Collingwood metro zoning or something. Often leagues will have clubs that sit in different zones. ie. the Footscray DFL always had Ascot Vale and Brunswick City, but I think those clubs sat in the Essendon and North Melbourne recruiting zones respectively. It was literally sharp pencilled lines on a map and clubs used to push for slight tweaks on the map depending on where certain promising juniors happened to live!

Also, I think the rules for zoning were more dependent on the player's actual home residence rather than their club. At least for metro zoning that was the case. Not sure about country zoning, but I'd assume the same rule applied.

Scott West was a good example. He went to school at Essendon Grammar, was an Essendon supporter and played his footy in the Essendon DFL with Strathmore. Yet was zoned to Footscray via his Keilor residence.

Ricky Olarenshaw - who was a Footscray fan, who played his footy at Keilor (in the Footscray colours) and whose family ran the Olarenshaw paint shop in the heart of Sunshine for many decades and lived over West's back fence (!) was zoned to Essendon.

The lines can be that razor thin! Kevin Murray - who lived a couple of kicks from the Brunswick Street Oval and was Fitzroy mad, was actually zoned to Collingwood. Of course he escaped that via the F/S Rule. The old zoning laws could be almost as cruel as the Draft!

... Yet I think we did okay out of the Olarenshaw/West swap.

On Egan, now I'm beginning to doubt.. He was recruited in 1974 - the year we got the Yarra Valley zone (same year as Wheeler came from Warburton), and he did go and coach Kinglake post retirement.... But he may have been a local kid..!

If he was, it means that we'd only have picked up squirrel Wheeler from there on that '78 list - which strengthens the argument tgat we were short changed by losing a big chunk of Gippsland to Hawthorn.

[Twodogs]

Regarding Micky Egan. I'm pretty sure he was recruited from F & Y socials in the FDFL.

[Twodogs]

Oh and I've got another name for your list. Fred Cook. JJ Liston trophy winner for B&F in the VFA, multiple premiership player, kicked nearly 1500 goals. At one stage he was almost the most recognisable footballer in Victoria. Fred was in his prime in 1978.

[Webby]

Oh and I've got another name for your list. Fred Cook. JJ Liston trophy winner for B&F in the VFA, multiple premiership player, kicked nearly 1500 goals. At one stage he was almost the most recognisable footballer in Victoria. Fred was in his prime in 1978.

That's actually a great get. Can't believe I didn't think of that! Port actually paraded him out on Saturday. I saw him in the flesh! In the half time thing on him, according to Cook, Norf tried to sign him from Port in '77 or '78, but Footscray refused to clear him (we still had his VFL playing rights).

Also, he said that EJ begged him not to leave and even told Cook's mum that he'd make him captain if he stayed.. An amazing state of affairs that a player would choose Port Melbourne over us - such was our state of administrative decay at the time..

Imagine Cook, Quinlan & Templeton in the one forward line, Dempsey and Round changing in the ruck, a midfield with Jennings, Wilson, Hawkins, Egan...

[Twodogs]

That's actually a great get. Can't believe I didn't think of that! Port actually paraded him out on Saturday. I saw him in the flesh! In the half time thing on him, according to Cook, Norf tried to sign him from Port in '77 or '78, but Footscray refused to clear him (we still had his VFL playing rights).

Also, he said that EJ begged him not to leave and even told Cook's mum that he'd make him captain if he stayed.. An amazing state of affairs that a player would choose Port Melbourne over us - such was our state of administrative decay at the time..

Imagine Cook, Quinlan & Templeton in the one forward line, Dempsey and Round changing in the ruck, a midfield with Jennings, Wilson, Hawkins, Egan...

I'm pretty sure that Teddy and Fred were cousins too. So when Ted told his mum that he wasn't just talking to anyone he was telling his Aunty.

[Twodogs]

And Geoff Raines. Grew up, lived his whole life and played all his footy in Footscray's country zone but flat out refused to play with us.

[KT31]

They're good names for the list... It's just getting bigger and bigger. Micky Egan was from Kinglake. You might've misread it as Kingsville or something as a kid and burned it to your mind. I have a tendency to do that from time to time. Both clubs wear/wore the green and gold, too.
From my rusty memory, we were green and gold at Spotty, Kingsville had blue and gold jumpers and later changed to the Yarraville Eagles colours of red and blue.

[Twodogs]

From my rusty memory, we were green and gold at Spotty, Kingsville had blue and gold jumpers and later changed to the Yarraville Eagles colours of red and blue.


Correct about Kingsville. We had dark blue (almost black) jumpers with a gold sash.

[Webby]

Correct about Kingsville. We had dark blue (almost black) jumpers with a gold sash.

Ah, right you are. Sorry, my brain remembered it as dark green - not dark blue.