Three Things I've Learned - Round 14 Edition

[Eastdog]

Once the Round 14 match against Port Adelaide is completed, let us know the three things you learned after watching the match.

Be constructive but be honest.

[bulldogtragic]

That's 3, three. :)

[SlimPickens]

Minsons performance last week was an aberration.

Libba struggles with a tag, and needs to work on it.

Our young blokes Macrae, Bonts, Hrovat etc are made of the right stuff. Didn't give in all day.

[G-Mo77]

Libba struggles with a tag, and needs to work on it.



He gave up, had he tried to break the tag he probably could have. I don't think I've been more disappointed in Libba than I was today.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

- Our new young core is the best we've ever had. Bonti was great again today and I am big Hrovat fan.
- Dahlhaus isn't a midfielder. Makes poor decisions and doesn't use it well.
- Tutt showed me today why I wanted him delisted last year.

[Scorlibo]

He gave up, had he tried to break the tag he probably could have. I don't think I've been more disappointed in Libba than I was today.

I agree. Worst game I've seen Libba play. The missed tackle on Polec made me ashamed of the plaudits I'd given Libba during the week, and it wasn't the only tackle he missed. Truly, a poor game, even with the tag factored in.

[jeemak]

1. This team has a long way to go when it comes to backing up effort week to week, across the entire squad. The less charitable side of me thinks they may get ahead of themselves a little too easily.

2. Tutt must snap out of his fumbling and hesitant ways otherwise his career is in deep jeopardy.

3. Jones attitude and effort is a work in progress and there's no such thing as a breakout game as far as he's concerned and nobody should talk as if there is.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

1, The injury Gods are against us at the moment.

2, We are a dumb coached side, Will not man up a spare defender if our lives depended on it.

3, Do we miss C.Ward, the GWS did homework and got that one 100%. He would make a huge difference to our club. The dogs should go and poach him back as he is a Gun, Captain, Match winner, Leader, Tough and a good bloke!

[F'scary]

3 things i RELEARNED:

1. Tutt is a shite player. We gotta find better.
2. Boyd has a tragic flaw in his game - disposal
3. Jones and Crameri have no consistency from week to week.

[Scorlibo]

2. Boyd has a tragic flaw in his game - disposal


Thought he was okay with his use of the ball today.

[LostDoggy]

1. I'm increasingly of the view these days that you must have 3-4 ball carriers (with some pace) who are elite kicks in your side. And the other side of the coin - no-one, but no-one should be in the team if they can't dispose of the ball accurately and to advantage.
2. We are not as well drilled as Port. They gain separation enough to take the mark and advance down the ground, we struggle. We make too many mistakes. We revert to old habits and stop taking the game on.
3. We lost the game in our forward half and around stoppages (PA's defensive work there set up many opportunities for them).

[Remi Moses]

Dead right on point 1 metal.
1. Port did their homework in blocking the centre corridor
2. We have a list imbalance of inside players
3. Griffen and Roughy aren't fit, so please don't play them

[Scorlibo]

3. Griffen and Roughy aren't fit, so please don't play them

Both were injured half way through the match. Griff was playing very well up to that point - fully fit.

[Remi Moses]

Both were injured half way through the match. Griff was playing very well up to that point - fully fit.

I don't think Griff's been fully fit all year to be honest.
The point I'm making is that if any of our players are carrying injuries, I'm expecting them not to play.

[Scorlibo]

I don't think Griff's been fully fit all year to be honest.
The point I'm making is that if any of our players are carrying injuries, I'm expecting them not to play.

Yep no problems with that, just thought you were implying that Griffen shouldn't have played the game just passed. As far as I'm aware the injury was unrelated to the previous week.

[Go_Dogs]

1. Hrovat's running goal was his best piece of play at AFL level yet. With some continuity he's going to become a serious player next year.

2. Liberatore is the guy who normally helps our player whose being tagged (he and Griff quite often appear to be blocking etc for each other), we need some more players willing to be a battering ram inside the contest to help Libba out - especially if Griff misses a few weeks and Libba is going to get the hard tag - which is what every coach will be looking to do.

3. We need to continue to work on spotting up 'easy' marks in the F50 - I'm not sure what the stats would've been, but at a guess they would've had significantly more than us - it's a workrate and decision making thing.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1. Injuries to Griff and Roughy highlighted our lack of quality players.
2. The class of Macrae Bonti and Hrovat simply highlights the need to keep turning our list over.
3. We do not have a A grade forward.

[LostDoggy]

I was there for the game so from my view without having watched the replay back..
1) needed to get more reward for effort for our first qtr, had we have taken our chances I thought we should have been 5 goals up at qtr time (this sets the next 3 qtr up ). Reason I say this is after the hrovat goal we had good momentum , we swung crameri back almost to say that's good enough for us, we will try and protect and go in to qtr time with this margin. We got a pure centre clearance straight after this rat goal and it was the port +1 that we created in port's defence that took it down and scored. Then they goaled again. I appreciate what we were trying to do but I really question that move. We basically took momentum away from ourselves and gives the save the game mentality rather than put the foot on their throat one.

2) there were periods of time where we had bontempelli, Jackson and libba in the middle. As more was asked of them because we lost griff and coons. They more than held their own against blokes like ebert, boak who are a few years advanced. These blokes for us are going to be playing together for 10+ years for us. It was really promising. As the game wore on we got exposed by their mature bodies, rotations and Darren burgess. I see port playing in the granny. We should take a lot from it.

3)Jordan roughead. I know he played through his shoulder earlier in the year when he did it. To do it again was incredibly manful. Some of his efforts were unbelievable. He obviously would have been jabbed at half time but to compete the way he did was a credit to him.

4) when we play a back 6 of rough , Morris, Picken, murph, Easton and Austin..apart from murph there is no one else of those others who can be counted on to make an attacking kick instinctivley with effeciency. This is an issue we have tried to address with higgins going back i know but with jj stagnating this year it's something I think we need more depth/experiment with especially as murph is coming to the end.

Apologies for my iPad related grammar

[lemmon]

It's interesting you raise the point of Crameri as our loose, it's been done on multiple occasions this year and I don't really get it at all. His biggest strength is obviously his running power which isn't utilised back there, I don't think he is a particularly good reader of the ball to get third man up, nor is he a great field kick. He does have that nice size which most of the effective spare backs have but apart from that he really isn't suited to the role and it's showing by how ineffective he is at it.

[LostDoggy]

Yeh sorry lemon. I get what you're saying but I may not have made myself clear. I was more questioning the call to create the plus one in our defence in the first place when we had them on our terms. The fact that it was crameri was sort of irrelevant in my eyes. You're right though, he seems to be the one that's swung when we have made plus 1s.

[Remi Moses]

1. Hrovat's running goal was his best piece of play at AFL level yet. With some continuity he's going to become a serious player next year.

2. Liberatore is the guy who normally helps our player whose being tagged (he and Griff quite often appear to be blocking etc for each other), we need some more players willing to be a battering ram inside the contest to help Libba out - especially if Griff misses a few weeks and Libba is going to get the hard tag - which is what every coach will be looking to do.

3. We need to continue to work on spotting up 'easy' marks in the F50 - I'm not sure what the stats would've been, but at a guess they would've had significantly more than us - it's a workrate and decision making thing.

That is so true^^
I reckon I've yelled at the Box or at the game 100 times
"Lower your f****** eyes"

[lemmon]

Yeh sorry lemon. I get what you're saying but I may not have made myself clear. I was more questioning the call to create the plus one in our defence in the first place when we had them on our terms. The fact that it was crameri was sort of irrelevant in my eyes. You're right though, he seems to be the one that's swung when we have made plus 1s.

Oh sorry, you definitely made yourself clear, fully agree that it was the wrong time for it considering we had the momentum. My fault for going off topic, fully understood and agreed with your point.

[LostDoggy]

The Crameri loose move was also made with a couple of minutes to go in the third quarter against Freo. We had ALL the play and an extra goal going into the break would have given us serious belief. Exact same thing happened. We got the clearance, quick kick forward and easy pickings for the loose defender.

[LostDoggy]

Has he put on weight since coming across, or is it the horizontal stripes that aren't his friend?

[Ozza]

1. Our two heavy losses this season have been when Griffen hasn't played (all of the period Griffen was out on the weekend was where we lost - we were going well before he was off obviously). Griff is so important to us.

2. Despite a good game last week, Will Minson is horribly out of form overall.

3. Easton Wood's improvement has been remarkable - he is now a vital player in defence.

[Dancin' Douggy]

1. Crameri wasn't drafted to pick up meaningless possessions on the wings, (would be nice to have some forwards even remotely near the goals when we go forward)

2, Hrovat is a cocky little player, I love it. When he backed himself in to take those bounces and kick that goal he was saying 'look out world, here I come".

3. Griffen has been playing injured all year.

[F'scary]

I was there for the game so from my view without having watched the replay back..
1) needed to get more reward for effort for our first qtr, had we have taken our chances I thought we should have been 5 goals up at qtr time (this sets the next 3 qtr up ). Reason I say this is after the hrovat goal we had good momentum , we swung crameri back almost to say that's good enough for us, we will try and protect and go in to qtr time with this margin. We got a pure centre clearance straight after this rat goal and it was the port +1 that we created in port's defence that took it down and scored. Then they goaled again. I appreciate what we were trying to do but I really question that move. We basically took momentum away from ourselves and gives the save the game mentality rather than put the foot on their throat one.

...

Apologies for my iPad related grammar

A repeated tactical blunder that sheets straight back to our coach.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's interesting you raise the point of Crameri as our loose, it's been done on multiple occasions this year and I don't really get it at all. His biggest strength is obviously his running power which isn't utilised back there, I don't think he is a particularly good reader of the ball to get third man up, nor is he a great field kick. He does have that nice size which most of the effective spare backs have but apart from that he really isn't suited to the role and it's showing by how ineffective he is at it.

Every time I see Crameri roll back, I die a little inside.

He isn't good in traffic, makes poor decisions/skill errors, cannot read the play and hesitates regularly when standing under a long ball. As you said lemmon, the only thing he offers in this role is a big body, it's absolutely staggering that the coaching panel have persisted with this all year.

[boydogs]

3. We need to continue to work on spotting up 'easy' marks in the F50 - I'm not sure what the stats would've been, but at a guess they would've had significantly more than us - it's a workrate and decision making thing.

Marks inside 50 were 25-6 Port's way - Schultz's 10 was more than our entire team


Every time I see Crameri roll back, I die a little inside.

He isn't good in traffic, makes poor decisions/skill errors, cannot read the play and hesitates regularly when standing under a long ball. As you said lemmon, the only thing he offers in this role is a big body, it's absolutely staggering that the coaching panel have persisted with this all year.

Who do we use instead? At one stage we tried Gia which was silly, he doesn't have the closing speed, height, leap or strength to go third man up

[jeemak]

Marks inside 50 were 25-6 Port's way - Schultz's 10 was more than our entire team



Who do we use instead? At one stage we tried Gia which was silly, he doesn't have the closing speed, height, leap or strength to go third man up

I think folk are advocating for no loose at those particular stages of the game, and if not I dare say very few alternatives could be raised.

[1eyedog]

Marks inside 50 were 25-6 Port's way - Schultz's 10 was more than our entire team



Who do we use instead? At one stage we tried Gia which was silly, he doesn't have the closing speed, height, leap or strength to go third man up

The perfect project for this is Tom Young who was very effective at this during the GWS game but he lacks form / ability and /or disposal efficiency :(

[boydogs]

I think folk are advocating for no loose at those particular stages of the game, and if not I dare say very few alternatives could be raised.

I agree with pressing on when we have the momentum, but in terms of who we use I'm not sure we can do better than Crameri at this stage. He's just not playing very well ATM no matter where we put him


The perfect project for this is Tom Young who was very effective at this during the GWS game but he lacks form / ability and /or disposal efficiency :(

Thinking more a forward who we could send back to stem the bleeding. Stringer would be an option when in the seniors.

[always right]

If we insist on putting someone back loose in defence, I would much prefer someone like Boyd who is excellent at reading the play, is sure overhead, and knows where to position himself.

[jeemak]

If we insist on putting someone back loose in defence, I would much prefer someone like Boyd who is excellent at reading the play, is sure overhead, and knows where to position himself.

I think people would oppose that based on a perception that he'd butcher the ball once he's won it.

[LostDoggy]

I think people would oppose that based on a perception that he'd butcher the ball once he's won it.
I would be more than comfortable if Boydy went back.

[Remi Moses]

I would be more than comfortable if Boydy went back.

He's not damaging enough with his disposal to play loose back.

[azabob]

He's not damaging enough with his disposal to play loose back.

For the context of this conversation (2-3 mins at the end of a quarter) you don't need to be damaging playing loose man in defence.

[Bulldog Joe]

What I have learned is that we can struggle off a 6 day break or particularly when our recovery time is compromised in relation to our opponent.

Brisbane was off a 6 day break after Freo and Port Adelaide was off a 6 day break after Collingwood.

[jeemak]

What I have learned is that we can struggle off a 6 day break or particularly when our recovery time is compromised in relation to our opponent.

Brisbane was off a 6 day break after Freo and Port Adelaide was off a 6 day break after Collingwood.

At the start of the year we really suffered from the disparity in breaks between our opponents and ourselves.

I think unfortunately it's just something you have to put up with when the draw is compromised to the extent that it is.

[Bulldog4life]

What I have learned is that we can struggle off a 6 day break or particularly when our recovery time is compromised in relation to our opponent.

Brisbane was off a 6 day break after Freo and Port Adelaide was off a 6 day break after Collingwood.

Interesting too that Brendan Goddard said that now he is playing more at the MCG with Essendon his recovery is much better than when he was playing more games at Etihad with St.Kilda.

[jeemak]

Interesting too that Brendan Goddard said that now he is playing more at the MCG with Essendon his recovery is much better than when he was playing more games at Etihad with St.Kilda.

The games are more intense at Docklands IMO. I'd like to see the difference in stoppage frequencies and contested possessions etc. to see if that's the case.

There used to be a theory that Docklands was harder than other grounds due to their being a car park under the ground, but now with the way stadium surfaces are designed there's very little difference in soil profiles across the board meaning this wouldn't be a factor any more.

[Twodogs]

The games are more intense at Docklands IMO. I'd like to see the difference in stoppage frequencies and contested possessions etc. to see if that's the case.

There used to be a theory that Docklands was harder than other grounds due to their being a car park under the ground, but now with the way stadium surfaces are designed there's very little difference in soil profiles across the board meaning this wouldn't be a factor any more.

Does that mean most of the surfaces are harder now than they used to be?

[jeemak]

Does that mean most of the surfaces are harder now than they used to be?

I think in most cases, yes.

Check out this link:

http://www.turfdiag.com/perched-water-table

The way soil profiles are designed these days, a certain amount of water is always retained in them and any excess drains away. Most have a hard clay base, or other compacted aggregate in which drainage channels are laid. These bases are pretty much as porous as concrete (i.e. they don't really absorb water) which allows them to drain really well.

If there wasn't a compacted base (con-vexed towards each drain, or angled towards them at least) to to lay the channels within, then the slotted PVC drains would be ineffective as there'd be too much potential for excess water to build up and destabilise the profile.

[Twodogs]

That's great news for us. It brings everyone back to our level. Our competitors have given up an advantage. Yeah?

[jeemak]

Not sure. There's some issues with Docklands that will always be there, and even though they do a magnificent job at getting turf to take better than it used to the huge amount of traffic it endures coupled with the lack of sun it gets in perfect growing season months it's never going to be as consistent as the MCG in coverage (though protection from the elements can be a good thing - it'll never be a wash out). I also think because of the unnatural sun/water schedule the surface is a bit more crusty and harder there (not the sub surface, but the actual turf rolls) compared to other grounds.

But, from my earlier post I also think due to its shallow flanks and the fact it's always dry there the ball pings from one side of the ground, and from one end of the ground to the other very very quickly and there's a more frenetic pace. If you're on the defencive side of the wing at Docklands and half way to the boundary you're still only one and a half decent kick lengths (say that quickly without slipping) from the same position on the opposite side of the ground or a titch less than two kicks away from goal. On the MCG you're closer to two and bit under three respectively.

I always thought I felt more rooted after a game played quickly on a smaller ground than a game played on a bigger ground. More contests, more repeated efforts.