Negative Thread

[bulldogtragic]

Ok, so I got your attention. Gotta say, this is as good as I've felt after a pumping without alcohol. The first quarter shows what we can do when we click, 8 shots and Grant marking 1 second after the siren against a good defence and #1 team. So where there's life there's hope. From there we got a glimpse into the future to make me happy enough.

Hrovat is rolled gold, when running into the goal with 2 bounces I put down the glasses and it's been a while when I wasn't concerned by a player streaming in. Confidence is the story here, for him, the team and us.

Macrae is rolled gold, he's a pup and playing beyond his years and uses it better than not. When he gets it I feel more comfortable than some other players. As far as Ward compensation went, we did as fantastic as we could with less than Melbourne got, and we did fantastic.

Bonts is a bunch of rare pink diamonds in rolled gold. I was on him mid last year and hoped the Saints would go with Billings who is also a good talent. He is much above even what I thought he'd be at this stage, if he continues then the Rising Star judges better start watching our games. Gun, captain, future champion, all things that are not inconceivable.

Add in Hunter, Honey, JJ, Talia and Stringer who we've all seen best 22 moments from. Roughy and Libba on the rise (despite the game today) and Griffen being well, Griffen.So there's much to see despite the scoreboard suggesting we weren't there for 3 quarters.

With so many kids to form a team around and an expected low-ish draft pick for a gun kid or KPF if we desire to raid GWS, there is hope now when we can see it working (1st quarter) or a glimpse into what our kids could look like in a couple of seasons. I know we got flogged and we can't accept that and all that stuff, but all I've been wanting up until last week and this week was hope, not necessarily wins, but hope in something to look forward to and get excited about. The bookies will say we won't do too well for the rest of the year, but so be it, if I can watch Bonts take on the game and make it look slow motion, running goals from like Hrovat and Bonts today, Macrae doing his thing and hopefully another kid or two demand attention and sufficient effort, then I know I can live that. Bizarre to say after a bad loss, I'm not angry or too upset, but I think the margin may take some media or outsiders away from any other narrative. So be it. Hope.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

What happened to the Positive Thread?

[Bulldog4life]

Good on you BT. Some great points.

[GVGjr]

I was about to post something similar albeit with a vastly different thread title ;)

I think there is some genuine reasons for some optimism but there is certainly a need to take a longer term view.

I'll list some of the reason for my optimism a bit later.

[bulldogtragic]

I was about to post something similar albeit with a vastly different thread title ;)

I think there is some genuine reasons for some optimism but there is certainly a need to take a longer term view.

I'll list some of the reason for my optimism a bit later.

For me I was fairly young, and super excited as a kid at the WO, seeing the new kids West, Grant, Johnson and Smith as the emerging group we built a team around. It's starting to occur to me this could be the same type of point in the team/success cycle. Young, tough, courageous, skilled, exciting young leaders to form a core of 200+ game guns to build a team around. I guess you have to have a bad 1996 to launch into a 1997 - but with a prelim final win this time though after a Libba goal is paid a goal.

[Scorlibo]

Yes, more promising signs from the young players, but to be honest (and sorry to bring the tone of the negative thread down) I thought it was one of the most disappointing performances of the year. The first game since round 1 where we looked no hope of winning. We were completely blown away around the ball and allowed Westhoff and Shulz to have an astounding 47 disposals, 10 contested marks and 11 goals between them up forward. I know things didn't go our way but there's still no other word for it - we were uncompetitive.

The players should cop a roasting after that, as a group. As individuals, there were some encouraging performances.

[bornadog]

Let's face it Port are a bloody good team

[Scorlibo]

Let's face it Port are a bloody good team

Yes but if we played like we did last week we would have challenged them.

[bornadog]

Yes but if we played like we did last week we would have challenged them.

We forget last week we played a team that was younger than us with a very young backline. The win last week was a little flattering.

Port will almost go all the way this year

[Scorlibo]

We forget last week we played a team that was younger than us with a very young backline. The win last week was a little flattering.

Port will almost go all the way this year

Yep, they'd also won 7 of their last 8 games. If the win last week was flattering then the 7 teams that they'd beaten in that period must have been embarrassed. No doubt, Port are a great team, but we would have challenged them if we'd backed up our effort.

[Dancin' Douggy]

In my opinion, we still have Jake Stringer who will be an absolute glorious superstar footballer.
He can just do things that mere mortals can't.
He's made of better raw material somehow. The same way Gablett Sr was.

Honeychurch has all the blind grunt of Boyd but he plays with such vigour and creativity. He's got the skill and the pace and the attacking mentality. He will be a star for us.

I believe we will finish below Melbourne and Richmond (check the draw) And we will have pick 4 in the draft.
I'm not depressed about todays game. But I'm pretty underwhelmed with what Crameri has dished up over the last few weeks.

On the other hand, I believe if we can draft/trade in a serious key forward, Then player X plus Crameri, Grant, Dalhaus, Hunter and Jones suddenly constitute a very dangerous forward line.

And I can't understand this obsession with trying to turn everyone into a midfielder.

Leave Dal as an opportunist forward. He won't be exhausted when the ball comes into his area.
I just hate watching players like Jack Riewoldt being made to spend time in the midfield. HE IS A FULL FORWARD! Whenever he plays out of the square the tigers suddenly look dangerous.

So........ in a nutshell not too unhappy about today and just enjoying the rebuild.

[F'scary]

Ratty's and Bon Jovi's goals were positives.

1st half was a positive - only two goals down at half time - basically, in the game with a chance.

[Remi Moses]

More importantly with the oncoming GWS and GC tsunami, what do we do?
Trade? Free agency ? Keep drafting and Wait what might be an eternity?
Food for thought.

[bulldogtragic]

More importantly with the oncoming GWS and GC tsunami, what do we do?
Trade? Free agency ? Keep drafting and Wait what might be an eternity?
Food for thought.

I think we go after a gorilla type FF, ie Patton. Not necessarily because of the big tall forward comments, but a player to take the number one defender. Jones on a lesser defender should help and then Crameri and Grant raffling 3rd and 4th defender ANC some speed in the pockets with a myriad of kids we have. I think a Patton type (who in genuinely dangerous) improves the forward line so much across all 6 forwards that we should be open to a trade with our first pick. And then draft accordingly after cutting the list harder than last year. I'm not sure we can get a decent FA with Stew's salary and need to keep our stars. Our core looks more than OK.

[josie]

Great post BulldogsTragic. I did not feel too upset yesterday, and even less upset having just freezed my arse off at Vic Park this arvo.

We do have reason to be optimistic for the future. I just hope the coaches play more of the young ones who have been banging down the door.

[bulldogtragic]

Leaving everything else aside, the form and statements being made by the elite kids we've got, especially now with Hrovat, Jake, Bonts and Macrae on the weekend, I'm seriously going back to watching West, Smith, Grant & Johnson break out as a core group. I don't think we've seen a breakout since then and being the age I am I'm not sure if there was another period where a core group of young players just bitch slapped us in the face and said send us off in 300 games time as heroes of this club. It's appearing to me that the aforementioned group of 300+ games, and like Neo and the Matrix, they are starting to believe and we need to strap ourselves in Bonts goaling, setting up, Jake's couple of goals and workrate, Hrovat ripping the game to shreds in other week would be 'the story', but it's Jack being the youngest to get 40 or over with a couple of goals. And that's not mentioning sons of father's who were a part of the last core group Libba, Hunter, Wallis and maybe more names come draft time etc, etc. It's crystalised in my mind now, this core has the potential to emulate possibly the best ever core group in the history of the club.

[whythelongface]

Well said BT. Certainly some exciting times ahead for the club - add the likes of Smith; Honeychurch; Darly; JJ and we have about a dozen outstanding youngsters who can really take this club forward over the next few years.

[bulldogtragic]

Well said BT. Certainly some exciting times ahead for the club - add the likes of Smith; Honeychurch; Darly; JJ and we have about a dozen outstanding youngsters who can really take this club forward over the next few years.

What is also exciting is the recruiting getting better, to now a gold standard. On the weekend we were without picks - Pick 1, Pick 3, Pick 5, Pick 12, Pick 14, Pick 14, Pick 15.

If we can get those first rounders back in the side, and get the next few years of first rounders like the last few, then giddy up. Add in culling the list correctly and looking at good trades and free agency particularly over the next 2 years and then it's all the more to look forward to.

[F'scary]

What is also exciting is the recruiting getting better, to now a gold standard. On the weekend we were without picks - Pick 1, Pick 3, Pick 5, Pick 12, Pick 14, Pick 14, Pick 15.

If we can get those first rounders back in the side, and get the next few years of first rounders like the last few, then giddy up. Add in culling the list correctly and looking at good trades and free agency particularly over the next 2 years and then it's all the more to look forward to.

Let me see if I can read this: Pick 1 Cooney; 3 Griffen; 5 Grant...Hang on a mo', are you including Howard and Cordy? :eek::eek::eek:

[bulldogtragic]

Let me see if I can read this: Pick 1 Cooney; 3 Griffen; 5 Grant...Hang on a mo', are you including Howard and Cordy? :eek::eek::eek:

Yep, Smith, Higgins, Howard and Cordy are the others - lucky guess! :)

Smith and Higgins in form are best 22 players, so there's that on top of the team that played with the boys you named. As for Howard and Ayce, that's kind of the point, if we can eliminate the Howard type mistakes and keep winning at the drafts, we have the kids from the weekend with a group of first round talents present and a bunch of first round talents in the future. Get the future picks 100% in the first 2 rounds at least and the list is choc full of top end, elite talent and we keep riding the roller coaster.

[F'scary]

That is the key - recruiting. It is tricky. There is a lottery element. I don't think the club will ever again make the Howard type mistake. That was one out of the box.

[always right]

That is the key - recruiting. It is tricky. There is a lottery element. I don't think the club will ever again make the Howard type mistake. That was one out of the box.

A mistake made by a recruiter who was part time at that stage. Staggering really.

[bulldogtragic]

That is the key - recruiting. It is tricky. There is a lottery element. I don't think the club will ever again make the Howard type mistake. That was one out of the box.

Not too sure I agree on the lottery element, there's risk like Rhode selling our club for magic beans and then there is a recruiting team that has delivered outside of the first year when they were PT. So there's risk and then there's risk if you know what I mean.

But the positivity lies in 7 first rounders not playing on the weekend. Griffen walks in, Grant & Smith too, Coons and Higgins will when fit and in form unless traded and everyone, Ayce we're all hoping for. That's 5 first round talents on top of the team yesterday. Add in another pick 5 or so, and pick 25 and potentially an upgrade if Coons hunts a premiership or pick 26 if Higgins goes as a FA. Get these right, get the next year right, add a FA and we are talking about 6 or 7 elite players, first round picks, on top of yesterday spanning the the entire age scale, but predominately still quite young. That's a lot of top end talent to fit into the 22 man squad from yesterday.

[azabob]

A mistake made by a recruiter who was part time at that stage. Staggering really.

Yep. It's the old story and every company falls for it. Lets save money and not replace the employee who has left. What old go wrong?!?

[Greystache]

Yep. It's the old story and every company falls for it. Lets save money and not replace the employee who has left. What old go wrong?!?

Which makes the ridiculous decision to take a player from left field with minimal exposed form even more obsurd. If we were limited in our time we could invest in watching under 18 players then you would expect us to invest it in watching the elite players from the traditional pathway. Not spending every second week watching some South Australian school games because you like the kicking action of some average player (which what we have said we did)

I don't buy the part time thing for the Howard disaster, it was bang in the middle of the worst recruiting period in our history, nearly every player was a reach and almost none of them any good. We had 2 different recruiters producing the same results, it's only since BMac has stamped himself on the process that we got our act together.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting that I'm apparently negative, yet I start (yet another) positive thread and the thing that keeps being commented on is a negative past decision and not the positive future. Just a casual observation, nothing against anyone in the slightest.

[always right]

Which makes the ridiculous decision to take a player from left field with minimal exposed form even more obsurd. If we were limited in our time we could invest in watching under 18 players then you would expect us to invest it in watching the elite players from the traditional pathway. Not spending every second week watching some South Australian school games because you like the kicking action of some average player (which what we have said we did)

I don't buy the part time thing for the Howard disaster, it was bang in the middle of the worst recruiting period in our history, nearly every player was a reach and almost none of them any good. We had 2 different recruiters producing the same results, it's only since BMac has stamped himself on the process that we got our act together.
The point is the environment that resulted in us "reaching" for players in the draft is reflected in the fact that we only employed our chief recruiter part time. We made big mistakes back then...which we are still paying for. No question that our recent drafting combined with some fortuitous father son selections have improved our position substantially.

[Greystache]

The point is the environment that resulted in us "reaching" for players in the draft is reflected in the fact that we only employed our chief recruiter part time. We made big mistakes back then...which we are still paying for. No question that our recent drafting combined with some fortuitous father son selections have improved our position substantially.

Scott Clayton was full time and oversaw the 2006-2008 drafts so that's irrelevant. Dalrymple took over in 2009 and in fact I'm sure was made full time when he did. So this whole debate is moot because our head recruiter has never been part time. Our footy department was just dysfunctional.

[westdog54]

What is also exciting is the recruiting getting better, to now a gold standard. On the weekend we were without picks - Pick 1, Pick 3, Pick 5, Pick 12, Pick 14, Pick 14, Pick 15.

If we can get those first rounders back in the side, and get the next few years of first rounders like the last few, then giddy up. Add in culling the list correctly and looking at good trades and free agency particularly over the next 2 years and then it's all the more to look forward to.

Its weird, but a thought struck me about 5 minutes ago.

Jordan McMahon: the gift that keeps on giving. From that trade the end result of it has been we get to watch Jack Macrae play 250 games for us, whereas Alex Rance has 5, maybe 6 years left in him?

[always right]

Scott Clayton was full time and oversaw the 2006-2008 drafts so that's irrelevant. Dalrymple took over in 2009 and in fact I'm sure was made full time when he did. So this whole debate is moot because our had recruiter has never been part time. Our footy department was just dysfunctional.

No-one said that it was the primary reason for drafting mistakes.......but I'll let Simon know that he was mistaken when he stated at the east west dinner a couple of weeks back that he was appointed as part time chief recruiter back in 2009.

[GVGjr]

Scott Clayton was full time and oversaw the 2006-2008 drafts so that's irrelevant. Dalrymple took over in 2009 and in fact I'm sure was made full time when he did. So this whole debate is moot because our had recruiter has never been part time. Our footy department was just dysfunctional.

Dalrymple was part time in the football department working with the VFL side at Werribee. He would have chats to the players at the breaks. On occasions he would be in the coaches box normally with Saade Ghazi. I think he was supposed to be full time once he landed the recruiting managers job.

[bulldogtragic]

Its weird, but a thought struck me about 5 minutes ago.

Jordan McMahon: the gift that keeps on giving. From that trade the end result of it has been we get to watch Jack Macrae play 250 games for us, whereas Alex Rance has 5, maybe 6 years left in him?

I like the way you think!! I think we win those trades over the expected journey.

[boydogs]

I'm seriously going back to watching West, Smith, Grant & Johnson break out as a core group. I don't think we've seen a breakout since then

Pretty harsh on the 99 kids

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty harsh on the 99 kids

Absolutely agree with you. The 99 draft kids have been completely outstanding and maybe Bob keeps them going next year. They are completely outstanding.

But in terms of a 'breakout like' West, Smith, Grant & Johnson - this is an immortal core group. 4 x 300+ game players has never been done by any VFL/AFL club except this core group. This is historically freakish and while the difference between 'completely outstanding' and 'immortal' is in one sense not much, at the same time it's absolutely massive.

I guess that's why this is meant to be a positive thread (meant to be), because I think this core group can be better than 'completely outstanding', I think they can be pushing 'immortal'. I don't say this lightly, it's a big call in my opinion but in reflecting upon our journey my gut is screaming at me the exact same personal 'light bulb' moment when I saw the boys in the early-mid 1990's.

Watching them click together was a thing of beauty and this is where the Geelong influence at the club will be very important. Other teams are going to offer these boys big, big dollars, much like everybody did to Geelong 10 years ago. But the Scarlett's, Mooney's, Corey's (etc) all realised premierships more than happen occur when we stick fat for really good money, not needing to chase or entertain stupid offers. I'm hoping this culture that Chris Grant showed me, and then Brown didn't, is back in place.

It's a great day when Stringer and Bonts play quite well, Hrovat rips it up and the story is an even better performance again.

[bulldogtragic]

While disappointed, i'm happy enough. Clearly we've used our top picks very well. All I ask for is hope through the kids which is a lesser and lesser questions each week as our talent shines through. The other is effort, and i'm happy enough this week.

I can understand how many will be gutted by losing to the other cheats, but really two turnovers in 8 seconds by Dahl in the last and two bad fumbles by Stevens and it may have been different. It's not through lack of effort r application such as some other weeks past. As for Cooney her seemed so lost, I've no idea what to say about it.

If anything else I think we can agree that Austin and Redpath shouldn't be playing, or retained IMO. Jones and Talia/Roberts makes a massive difference to them team. So all in all, the result was unfortunate but it's a step in the right direction and makes for 3 months of pasionate conversation about whether we need a KPF or a KPD more.

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