2014 Game Day Round 18 - Western Bulldogs V Essendon

[Eastdog]

Margin: Dogs by 17 points
First Goal: Bontempelli
Best on Ground: Libba

[boydogs]

Dogs by 27
First Goal Crameri
BOG Crameri

[LostDoggy]

Injectors by 20
FG Griff
BOG Minson

[Twodogs]

Bombers by 7.
First goal, Lukey D.
BOG: Mark Austin.

[Eastdog]

Hate the 4:40pm time for this game. Deserved to be on tonight or Friday night.

[Scorlibo]

Hate the 4:40pm time for this game. Deserved to be on tonight or Friday night.

It doesn't seem to make sense that a weekend with 5 games of footy played could have 2 of those be twilight games.

[Eastdog]

It doesn't seem to make sense that a weekend with 5 games of footy played could have 2 of those be twilight games.

I don't understand it. But if there is money in it for the AFL they'll do it. If the game was on tonight or Friday or even tomorrow afternoon earlier I reckon it could of been close to 40K. I reckon will get around 30-31K tomorrow night.

[bulldogtragic]

Dogs by 1
Minson First Goal and BOG

[ratsmac]

Dogs by 27
First goal - Hrovat
BOG - Macrae to back up last weeks effort

[bornadog]

Dogs by 33
First Goal: Hunter
BOG: Libba

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 11
First goal - Stringer
BOG - Liberatore

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dogs by 13
First goal - Griffen
BOG - Murphy

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 13
First goal - Coons
BOG - Koby

[Bulldog4life]

Doggies by 5 points

First Goal..Hunter

BOG...Liberatore

[westdog54]

I fancy our chances this week.

Dogs by 12.
First goal to Dahlhaus
Libba BOG

[lemmon]

Sorry to be a pain but I'm useless at working these out, anyone know if GA members need to buy a reserved seat for this one?

Dogs by 22
First goal to Crameri
Crameri BOG

[Bulldog4life]

Sorry to be a pain but I'm useless at working these out, anyone know if GA members need to buy a reserved seat for this one?

Dogs by 22
First goal to Crameri
Crameri BOG

I am not but sitting on third level and getting there early.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm watching delirious on youtube between things, I so wanna do the ice cream dance to Essendon people this week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Dogs by 8 points
First goal Hunter
BOG: Boyd

[GVGjr]

Should be a great crowd. Fans are streaming in at the moment

[GVGjr]

Prudden has just confirmed that he is out for the season. Off to see a specialist on how to stop his run of hamstring injuries. He has had six hamstrings type injuries since arriving at the club.

[GVGjr]

Gordon Casey looking very fit. Talking about how great the fans were at coming to see the team play no matter the conditions.

[F'scary]

Dogs by 7 points
First goal: Napoleon Dynamite
BOG: Marc Bon Tempelli

[Eastdog]

Margin: Dogs by 17 points
First Goal: Bontempelli
Best on Ground: Libba

Great start. First goal kicker correct.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Very poor start by our midfield. Not giving Roughy any sortvof chance when we are so poor upfield. Wallis, Boyd, Libba & Griffen need to lift.

[Mantis]

Roughy needs to tighten up.. Has had a poor start.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Needed that. An even upper for the Stevens decision that cost us a goal.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wallis either needs to lift or we need to change the match up on Heppel.

[bornadog]

Bloody Crameri

[F'scary]

Stringer to Macrae - Goal!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Much better last 8 or so minutes.

[GVGjr]

Simon Minton-Connell in the Players Sponsors area.

[SlimPickens]

Will needs to find a way to stop Ryders offensive running.

[Eastdog]

We need some flare to generate.

[Eastdog]

Our defence needs to do better. We are getting beaten in the middle.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Our defence needs to do better. We are getting beaten in the middle.

I think the reason our defense was looking suspect is as you point out our midfield had been so poor, allowing quick movement by the Bombers into their forwards.

[Mantis]

Working hard, just need a bit more polish.. That helps!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Doing much better at the contest and no surprise we are now back in this game. Heppel not as influential, good correction by Wallis.
Boyd puts us in front after some great pressure.

[Eastdog]

Really getting right in it now.

[Jasper]

Striiinger!!!!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Great finish by Stringer from 50, finishing off some classy ball movement

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Why was Picken the tallest guy on Carlisle? That was poor defense.

[LostDoggy]

Why was roughy on the mark then from a free kick......stupid he's having a shocker!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Great vision and execution by Dahl to put it to Redpath's advantage. Nice finish by big Jack!! 7 point lead at the half!

[ReLoad]

Great endeavour that quarter, they certainly lifted, let's hope we can keep at it for another half.

[GVGjr]

Happy with our effort, need to get a couple of early goals in the 3rd

[Jasper]

Great start to the quarter. 3 to Stringer.

[Jasper]

We have found the FF everyone says we need in Stringer. 4th for the day

[G-Mo77]

We have found the FF everyone says we need in Stringer. 4th for the day

I don't see him as a FF at all. A flanker with a bit of height and a player who's starting to find his feet at AFL level.

[Murphy'sLore]

Who cares as long as he kicks those goals!

[G-Mo77]

Who cares as long as he kicks those goals!

True. I don't care who kicks them as long as they go through the big sticks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Best Qtr from the Dogs since Macca took over. Kids standing tall so far. This is now our game to lose.

[bulldogtragic]

Incoming CoonDog.

[bulldogtragic]

Criminal 50. The ump called play on, how can it be 50???

[LostDoggy]

Best Qtr from the Dogs since Macca took over. Kids standing tall so far. This is now our game to lose.

Let's not tempt fate!

[G-Mo77]

While our forwards are starting to look better our backline is a real concern.

[ReLoad]

We are looking cooked. :( lucky they are missing.

[bulldogtragic]

We need to find Bontempelli a 1,000 young women to get some father sons. Man he is good.

[GVGjr]

There are some tiered looking boys and the siren should give them a good rest. Need that first goal of the 4th quarter

[GVGjr]

How good was that mark by Bonts?

[LostDoggy]

We need to find Bontempelli a 1,000 young women to get some father sons. Man he is good.

Sperm bank count for f/s???

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Massive last qtr. Let's hope we haven't spent all our petrol tickets. Carlisle looms large. If one of our defenders can quell him in the last it will go a long way towards ensuring a win for us.
Great game.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Stringer!!!!!!!!!
Great tap Will.

[bulldogtragic]

Sperm bank count for f/s???

Never thought of that.. Yes!!!! :)

[Jasper]

Not looking good...

[bulldogtragic]

Well, let's see how we respond.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Slipping away. Look out on our feet. Cooney needs to lift.

[G-Mo77]

8 goals. How can this happen?

[bulldogtragic]

Stevens...

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Griff!!! & Bonts!!

[bulldogtragic]

10 year deal. Freak.

[LostDoggy]

8 goals. How can this happen?

Cringe, curse, repeat!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Eastie you called it early our defense is putrid tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Cooney non existent!

[G-Mo77]

How to we get it back? Sure we may score again but we're completely ineffective at defending right now.

[LostDoggy]

Stopped as if shot.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

so sick of us allowing average forwards to kick bags....Daw, Schulz, Carlisle

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I hope this sticks in the craw of our guys. Threw this away.

[bulldogtragic]

I guess we learned a few things.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

A key forward? My kingdom for a key defender.

[LostDoggy]

Great signs for the future, just ran out of legs. Keep the draft picks high.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Really disappointed in Cooney, gave us nothing as the sub.

[LostDoggy]

Cooney bother to shower?

[ReLoad]

I guess we learned a few things.

We sure as heck did.

Sadly we were beaten by a one man band. We have had a few close should have won games this year, I'm confident that next year we will go up a gear again, the drug cheats had us covered with experience, chapman etc were the difference.

I'm grumpy we lost but geeez they never gave in.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

so sick of us allowing average forwards to kick bags....Daw, Schulz, Carlisle
I know what you mean, but Schulz & Carlisle are very good players.

[G-Mo77]

A key forward? My kingdom for a key defender.

Which is what I touched one earlier. Our forwards looked lively in that game apart from the last but our defence was atrocious. Summed up the day when Carlisle, who had 8 on the board took an easy mark 40 out. He missed but how can he be that wide open?

Our back 6 were horrible, no team defence from any of them.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Cooney bother to shower?
He needs to show something in the remaining weeks or his career is going to fizzle out as others pass him by in the pecking order.

[Hotdog60]

It was good to see JJ repay the 3 year contract by butchering the ball. He was average today.

[Flamethrower]

He needs to show something in the remaining weeks or his career is going to fizzle out as others pass him by in the pecking order.

I was disappointed when Cooney came straight in at the expense of Mitch Honeychurch. A week or 2 at Footscray would have sent a positive message to the team about earning games, and given Coons a few weeks to regain match fitness.

Absolutely gutted about the result.

[G-Mo77]

I was disappointed when Cooney came straight in at the expense of Mitch Honeychurch. A week or 2 at Footscray would have sent a positive message to the team about earning games, and given Coons a few weeks to regain match fitness.

Absolutely gutted about the result.

Agree. Cooney is no longer the player that demands a game right off the bat. There is nothing wrong with dominating at VFL and winning your spot back. He did nothing when we desperately needed someone to stand and he was fresh. Really disappointing.

[Eastdog]

My thoughts.

I hate when we lose by just a bit over a goal or under. Anyway I thought we were good again today with the youngsters showing plenty once more. Stringer impressed me up forward. Our young mids did good again today but need to be on top for more of the game. Defensively at times we were very poor and didnt work hard enough. Bonts is going to be a star. Loved that mark he took on Fletcher.

[JohnGentStand]

Shattered..... hate losing to those people.....euurrgh!! need mouthwash.
We just HAVE to be more aggressive when the game is in the balance.
I hated that we went into our shells at the last dance.

[AndrewP6]

So, so disappointed. Three quarters just doesn't cut it. Woeful defence, we really threw this one away.

[chef]

As disappointing as it is to lose, what a fantastic effort from our young team against a finals bound side. The future is so bright.

[chef]

So, so disappointed. Three quarters just doesn't cut it. Woeful defence, we really threw this one away.

More like we ran out of petrol than threw it away to me.

[Go_Dogs]

Not wanting to single anyone out after what was a gallant effort today, but a couple of crucial moments late - the one that I'm most disappointed in was a missed tackle by Cooney which resulted in an Essendon take away and goal down the other end.

Bonts was huge today, did some really good things.

Stringer played a great role, and it would have to be his best performance for us.

Dahl was quiet early but continued to work hard to get involved and I thought he improved as the game wore on.

We really lack one good sized KP defender to go with the Carlisle types. Roughead is great, but he lacks a bit of speed and agility on some players, and Morris, despite never giving in, is reaching a stage in his career where we shouldn't be relying on him to battle out of his weight division and win more contests than he loses.

We really need to get Roberts in for the balance of the season as he is the one I think can potentially play that role for us.

I would've loved to win today, I don't know how others found it but up on level 3 the Bombers fans were unbearable...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Mixed emotions.

Young brigade were sensational, our future is extremely bright. Bonti and Stringer are the genuine match winners, whilst Macrae, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl, Libba and Wallis form an unbelievably talented nucleus heading forward. I know I've left some names out, and I know Libba is an A grader - but Stringer/Bonti are special.

On the flip side, our core group of senior players routinely stink it up when the pressure rises. Boyd was bad late, Minson got absolutely spanked, Morris got hammered (harsh - but fact today), Griff made some crucial errors, Crameri did nothing and Cooney was very poor when he came on.

The list still needs a bit of work, but the foundation is strong. We are desperate for a key defender, more so than a key forward. I was however disappointed with how our defense structured up tonight - we gave Carlisle all the space he wanted/needed to time his leads and run and jump at the footy. Roughead was extremely disappointing today, ditto Morris - yes Carlisle was 'on', but their positioning at times was laughable. Worse than this, the coaching staff didn't seem to implement any plans - we just carried on, hoping our mids would win the game for us. They got close, but in the end, we needed to double team Carlisle and block his space. We simply didn't do it, or on the odd occasion when we did have a player in the hole, he stood clueless (Cooney).

The future is exciting, it needs some key positional additions, but our senior core remains fragile under pressure.

[whythelongface]

As disappointing as it is to lose, what a fantastic effort from our young team against a finals bound side. The future is so bright.

My thoughts exactly. Thought we would be very competitive but really wasn't expecting us to win against one of the form teams of the competition. Fantastic effort and the future looks bright for our team.

[jeemak]

The effort was certainly there, but once again we weren't as clean as we needed to be at crucial times. Plus, we're one serviceable or better player of at least 196cm tall at each end of the ground. The game has changed too much for us to try and rely on Dale Morris as a second tall.

I thought Steven's fumble late was crucial, as was Dahl's consecutive butchered kicks. Whilst the game was made up of a number of similar instances, these two plus Cooney's teflon arms in the tackle stood out to me as major points of the game.

Alas, our young team of talented triers didn't get the points again. I really hope this one stung them and makes them work harder than they did before 4:40pm today.

[whythelongface]

Mixed emotions.

Young brigade were sensational, our future is extremely bright. Bonti and Stringer are the genuine match winners, whilst Macrae, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl, Libba and Wallis form an unbelievably talented nucleus heading forward. I know I've left some names out, and I know Libba is an A grader - but Stringer/Bonti are special.

On the flip side, our core group of senior players routinely stink it up when the pressure rises. Boyd was bad late, Minson got absolutely spanked, Morris got hammered (harsh - but fact today), Griff made some crucial errors, Crameri did nothing and Cooney was very poor when he came on.



Yes Dale may have got hammered but really what do you expect when he plays a KP role on a player 8-10 cm taller than him. Didn't really have any support from those around him trying to negate Carlisle's impact. Thought Roughead should have done a better job on him earlier, thus avoiding the scenario of having to have Morris move onto Carlisle.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Would love to have seen us clear out our forward line and just leave Stringer in their one on one late in the game. He just didn't have any room to move in.

[Sedat]

Mixed emotions.

Young brigade were sensational, our future is extremely bright. Bonti and Stringer are the genuine match winners, whilst Macrae, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl, Libba and Wallis form an unbelievably talented nucleus heading forward. I know I've left some names out, and I know Libba is an A grader - but Stringer/Bonti are special.

On the flip side, our core group of senior players routinely stink it up when the pressure rises. Boyd was bad late, Minson got absolutely spanked, Morris got hammered (harsh - but fact today), Griff made some crucial errors, Crameri did nothing and Cooney was very poor when he came on.

The list still needs a bit of work, but the foundation is strong. We are desperate for a key defender, more so than a key forward. I was however disappointed with how our defense structured up tonight - we gave Carlisle all the space he wanted/needed to time his leads and run and jump at the footy. Roughead was extremely disappointing today, ditto Morris - yes Carlisle was 'on', but their positioning at times was laughable. Worse than this, the coaching staff didn't seem to implement any plans - we just carried on, hoping our mids would win the game for us. They got close, but in the end, we needed to double team Carlisle and block his space. We simply didn't do it, or on the odd occasion when we did have a player in the hole, he stood clueless (Cooney).

The future is exciting, it needs some key positional additions, but our senior core remains fragile under pressure.
Agree on all counts, especially the paragraph on our senior players not standing up in the heat of the last qtr - Griffen excepted. Minson had a typical Minson game - did 2-3 fantastic things but then gave away far too many frees and was also torched going the other way due to a lack of athleticism. And he can't be given a bigger chop-out with Campbell's inclusion because he doesn't offer anything elsewhere on the ground. If he can't ruck for 95% of the game and maintain his form for the duration, he starts to become a liability.

[F'scary]

Agree on all counts, especially the paragraph on our senior players not standing up in the heat of the last qtr - Griffen excepted. Minson had a typical Minson game - did 2-3 fantastic things but then gave away far too many frees and was also torched going the other way due to a lack of athleticism. And he can't be given a bigger chop-out with Campbell's inclusion because he doesn't offer anything elsewhere on the ground. If he can't ruck for 95% of the game and maintain his form for the duration, he starts to become a liability.

This is indeed the Minson question.

[jeemak]

Agree on all counts, especially the paragraph on our senior players not standing up in the heat of the last qtr - Griffen excepted. Minson had a typical Minson game - did 2-3 fantastic things but then gave away far too many frees and was also torched going the other way due to a lack of athleticism. And he can't be given a bigger chop-out with Campbell's inclusion because he doesn't offer anything elsewhere on the ground. If he can't ruck for 95% of the game and maintain his form for the duration, he starts to become a liability.

But how bad up forward is he compared to other resting rucks? With two or three minutes once or twice a quarter forward, plus a few minutes on the bench is that much of an issue having Campbell in the side helping him out?

When you look at it, that's maybe seven or eight minutes at different times over a quarter when he's not rucking and I think if we tried we could manage that.

It's gotten to a stage where we need to try having he and Campbell in the team. He can't do it all, it's been proven too many times this year.

[Twodogs]

When this team learns how to play out four quarters and kick straight it's going to be good.

[jeemak]

When this team learns how to play out four quarters and kick straight it's going to be good.

Yeah, I hear you.

A few early efforts and some late efforts on the mental side of things really cost us.

[BulldogBelle]

As disappointing as it is to lose, what a fantastic effort from our young team against a finals bound side. The future is so bright.

These are my thoughts exactly.
Looking forward to the next few years.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But how bad up forward is he compared to other resting rucks? With two or three minutes once or twice a quarter forward, plus a few minutes on the bench is that much of an issue having Campbell in the side helping him out?

When you look at it, that's maybe seven or eight minutes at different times over a quarter when he's not rucking and I think if we tried we could manage that.

It's gotten to a stage where we need to try having he and Campbell in the team. He can't do it all, it's been proven too many times this year.

I agree jeemak. Minson (and Campbell for that matter) can at least bring the ball to ground when resting up forward, which is more than what Redpath and Jones have been able to do. This argument may be more valid if we had a genuine star KPF, but we don't, so I cannot fathom why we refuse to play Campbell and Minson in the same side. It has burned us so many times this season.

[KT31]

As disappointing as it is to lose, what a fantastic effort from our young team against a finals bound side. The future is so bright.

Well put Chef, twelve months ago we would have been hammered.
Would have loved the win but it's a huge improve on the first half of the season and the way our kid's are taking on the leadership roles our future is as bright as it has ever been.
Bedsides I'm happy to make sure young Cordy remains a second or third rounder.;)

[comrade]

Well put Chef, twelve months ago we would have been hammered.
Would have loved the win but it's a huge improve on the first half of the season and the way our kid's are taking on the leadership roles our future is as bright as it has ever been.
Bedsides I'm happy to make sure young Cordy remains a second or third rounder.;)

Saw young Zaine after the game walking out with his parents. He's a decent size.

[anfo27]

Was at the game and was really pleased with most things but thought we defended badly. Carlisle was their only target and to have him one out with Morris or Roughead so many times was just poor from our defensive group. Even when the ball went in there slowly Carlisle was still one out. Our big forwards were crap as well, other than Stringer of course.

[SonofScray]

More like we ran out of petrol than threw it away to me.

Agree. I thought the effort was up, we cashed in when momentum was in our favour but couldn't manage the game once the sub was made and Wallis got injured. Combined with the travel and recent conditions, I had us pegged for being run over. Even allowing for Carlisle's dominance, I think we simply ran out of puff.

[Eastdog]

Was at the game and was really pleased with most things but thought we defended badly. Carlisle was their only target and to have him one out with Morris or Roughead so many times was just poor from our defensive group. Even when the ball went in there slowly Carlisle was still one out. Our big forwards were crap as well, other than Stringer of course.

What did you think of Hunter's game today? Redpath I still feel we need to give more time too. Bonts was good. Crameri frustrating but feel his important to the forward set up.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Agree on all counts, especially the paragraph on our senior players not standing up in the heat of the last qtr - Griffen excepted. Minson had a typical Minson game - did 2-3 fantastic things but then gave away far too many frees and was also torched going the other way due to a lack of athleticism. And he can't be given a bigger chop-out with Campbell's inclusion because he doesn't offer anything elsewhere on the ground. If he can't ruck for 95% of the game and maintain his form for the duration, he starts to become a liability.
We could do a lot worse than use Campbell and Minson in tandem in the ruck. Will's lack of mobility was telling against Ryder today who along with Carlisle were the two dominant players on the ground. The MC should give up on expecting Morris to play as our second tall. It is time to bring in Talia or Roberts as our second tall or why waste keeping them on the list. The loss of Wallis was telling today as it enabled Heppell to take over in the vital last quarter. The decision to replace Picken was puzzling if he wasn't injured given his durability in what was always going to be a tough final term. I had doubts about the wisdom of selecting Cooney after missing for so many weeks and so it turned out to be. Macrae was again terrific with 32 possessions and we are well served in the small brigade of Liberatore Hrovat Hunter Dahlhaus plus the added class of both Bontempelli and Stringer.

[anfo27]

What did you think of Hunter's game today? Redpath I still feel we need to give more time too. Bonts was good. Crameri frustrating but feel his important to the forward set up.

Hunter was pretty good I thought. Redpath and Crameri didn't offer us much at all. I think 3 games is enough for Redpath and he needs to go back to Footscray. Jones kicked 6 there today so maybe he should come in. Redpath didn't even register a tackle so if he is not marking the ball he needs to offer us some defensive pressure.

[Eastdog]

Hunter was pretty good I thought. Redpath and Crameri didn't offer us much at all. I think 3 games is enough for Redpath and he needs to go back to Footscray. Jones kicked 6 there today so maybe he should come in. Redpath didn't even register a tackle so if he is not marking the ball he needs to offer us some defensive pressure.

Would of loved Smith to come in for the next match but unfortunately it looks like he did his knee in the VFL today. Thats sucks.

[bornadog]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

[always right]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

Curious as to how you make this call on Austin when you obviously didn't even see the game. If you want to see Roberts and Talia played for the rest of the season, perhaps you should be calling for Morris to be dropped. He was hopelessly outplayed yesterday and isn't part of the future.

[chef]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.



How did they go for Footscray on the weekend?

[Ozza]

Roberts was listed as best afield, although I didn't see the VFL match - so can't add any more than that.

[Ozza]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

Austin, for his limitations with the ball - defended well and read the play well.
I don't think watching the game via text message is a great viewpoint to be criticising how guys went. Understand you are referring to 'bigger picture'.

[Greystache]

How did they go for Footscray on the weekend?

Roberts was excellent. Some intercept marks, some good one on one defending, and used the ball confidently. Talia was solid rather than good, much like most of his season.

[EasternWest]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

Aw man. That just sucks.

[whythelongface]

Got a text we were 19 points up and then to find out we lost, well pissed off, is an under statement. Why we persist with guys like Austin, makes me wonder, and how did Cooney come straight in after missing so many games. He was obviously rusty and should have played at VFL and Smith in the AFL and maybe he wouldn't have sustained another knee. MC big mistakes in selection this week. This was more than winnable.

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

That is a rather harsh call. Hindsight is wonderful. How do you know if Smith had of played in the seniors that he wouldn't done his knee as well? I know the MC make mistakes but to apportion blame for them on the Smith injury is ludicrious. BAD, I know you probably don't mean it that way but that is the way it can be interpreted based on your comments.

[chef]

Roberts was listed as best afield, although I didn't see the VFL match - so can't add any more than that.


Roberts was excellent. Some intercept marks, some good one on one defending, and used the ball confidently. Talia was solid rather than good, much like most of his season.

Good to hear.

[GVGjr]

Agree with NBP, Campbell and either Roberts or Talia should be played for the rest of the season, and no that is not gifting them games, that is developing them at senior level.

I want to win games, neither Talia or Roberts have performed better than Austin. Roberts is too slow to be a 3rd tall defender and if he isn't strong or athletic enough to play on a Carlisle. Campbell at least has form on his side but I'd rather Jones.
If you are so gun ho on Campbell why didn't you pick him in the match committee thread?

[LostDoggy]

I want to win games, neither Talia or Roberts have performed better than Austin. Roberts is too slow to be a 3rd tall defender and if he isn't strong or athletic enough to play on a Carlisle. Campbell at least has form on his side but I'd rather Jones.
If you are so gun ho on Campbell why didn't you pick him in the match committee thread?

Are they the same reasons the MC weren't prepared to move Austin onto him?

Austin and Roberts both have there weaknesses, but I'm all for playing the bloke who has far much more upside. Especially given the circumstances of our season currently.

[Happy Days]

Saying the club is somehow responsible for Smith's injury by not selecting him is really unbelievably dumb.

This game just reflected what we've all been saying on here for ages; the backline is a bigger problem than the forward line is. Roughy is promising but anyone with even decent athleticism and quickness can pose a serious threat to him, and continually playing Austin is stagnating the development of Talia and/or Roberts as prospects (not to mention he's not as good as either of them).

Sorry if it's been mentioned elsewhere but what happened with Wallis/when did the injury occur? He was doing a fantastic job on Heppell until the 4th quarter when he pretty much won them the game, guessing he got hurt around the same time?

[jeemak]

Saying the club is somehow responsible for Smith's injury by not selecting him is really unbelievably dumb.

This game just reflected what we've all been saying on here for ages; the backline is a bigger problem than the forward line is. Roughy is promising but anyone with even decent athleticism and quickness can pose a serious threat to him, and continually playing Austin is stagnating the development of Talia and/or Roberts as prospects (not to mention he's not as good as either of them).

Sorry if it's been mentioned elsewhere but what happened with Wallis/when did the injury occur? He was doing a fantastic job on Heppell until the 4th quarter when he pretty much won them the game, guessing he got hurt around the same time?

From the presser it happened just before Picken was subbed out initially, then happened again later on to finish him up. If his foot isn't broken then it's badly bruised.

Agreed that Heppell's last quarter killed us. He's going to be a dominant player soon enough.

[Mantis]

This game just reflected what we've all been saying on here for ages; the backline is a bigger problem than the forward line is. Roughy is promising but anyone with even decent athleticism and quickness can pose a serious threat to him, and continually playing Austin is stagnating the development of Talia and/or Roberts as prospects (not to mention he's not as good as either of them).



If he can't play on the likes of Tippett, Carlisle, Lynch,etc.. (the new age forward - very tall and mobile) then where does that leave him?

[LostDoggy]

That game proved we still have much building from the back to be done to be become a genuine consistent finalist in the future.

[Ozza]

That game proved we still have much building from the back to be done to be become a genuine consistent finalist in the future.

I don't think anything is proved from one match.

Essendon had far more inside 50s than us, had one bloke completely on fire, kicked to him every single time and weren't pressured well enough up the ground, so the entries were good quality.

Our forward line went at a better efficiency than Essendon's (53% as opposed to 46%).... so to me - it doesn't really stack up that our defence is a complete failure.

[jeemak]

If he can't play on the likes of Tippett, Carlisle, Lynch,etc.. (the new age forward - very tall and mobile) then where does that leave him?

I think he will be able to. He's still got a lot of development left in him as a full back, but like most he'll be prone to good days and bad days.

[Happy Days]

If he can't play on the likes of Tippett, Carlisle, Lynch,etc.. (the new age forward - very tall and mobile) then where does that leave him?

On the hulking forwards like Cloke...oh wait.


Roughy's had some seriously good games in defense so my faith in him is in his body of work rather than his attributes. His weaknesses are far more glaring than his strengths right now.

[lemmon]

If he can't play on the likes of Tippett, Carlisle, Lynch,etc.. (the new age forward - very tall and mobile) then where does that leave him?

As a ruckman playing makeshift full back. It was the same story as when Cloke got a hold of him, Roughy lacks the athleticism in the first 5 metres to get enough body on body and affect the spoil. I'm probably in the minority in terms of being far from convinced on Roughy as a full back but he was lucky to not have had more goals kicked on him on the weekend, some of his holding tactics were questionable bordering on panicked. I like Jordan and the leadership he brings to the side but these are the guys he will have to make a career out of playing on. Yes he plays a tough position in a struggling side but he gets taken to the cleaners too often and Morris often gets the best forward anyway.

I just wonder whether at times for the rest of the season Roughy plays full forward and relief ruck and we perhaps bring in Roberts to play key back. I understand the argument that he doesn't learn if he's not playing there but he could potentially fill one of the other big gaps on our list and we get to find out whether Roberts is an AFL footballer.

[Greystache]

I just wonder whether at times for the rest of the season Roughy plays full forward and relief ruck and we perhaps bring in Roberts to play key back. I understand the argument that he doesn't learn if he's not playing there but he could potentially fill one of the other big gaps on our list and we get to find out whether Roberts is an AFL footballer.

It seems to be the default position for so many when Roughy has a bad game in defence that we should just give up playing him as a key defender and move him back to the forward/2nd ruck role where he's naturally just going to blossom, when in fact he's never looked like being competent in that role. The best footy he's played in his AFL career has been as a backman, and any time he's played elsewhere he's looked like a marginal AFL prospect.

He was very poor yesterday, not because of pace off the mark or athleticism, but because he was loose and gave Carlise too much freedom. Carlise didn't do him for pace or athleticism, I've watched plenty of him over his career, and he is no better athletically than Roughead. He's not quick and can barely jump, he's tall with a long reach and has very good hands. Nothing more, nothing less.

[whythelongface]

Can we just put it down to Roughy having a bad at the office....happens to all from time to time. Nothing more nothing less.

[lemmon]

It seems to be the default position for so many when Roughy has a bad game in defence that we should just give up playing him as a key defender and move him back to the forward/2nd ruck role where he's naturally just going to blossom, when in fact he's never looked like being competent in that role. The best footy he's played in his AFL career has been as a backman, and any time he's played elsewhere he's looked like a marginal AFL prospect.

He was very poor yesterday, not because of pace off the mark or athleticism, but because he was loose and gave Carlise too much freedom. Carlise didn't do him for pace or athleticism, I've watched plenty of him over his career, and he is no better athletically than Roughead. He's not quick and can barely jump, he's tall with a long reach and has very good hands. Nothing more, nothing less.
Most of those games Roughead would have played as a ruck/forward were in his first 30 between the ages of 19 and 21, I agree he looked out of his depth for the vast majority but we'd all agree big blokes take time and there are few if any who play stellar footy that young at his size. He's a 23 year old now with 68 games of footy under his belt and has played on some very good forwards, I'd give him a crack forward under the assumption he has seriously developed as an AFL player during his span of time in the backline. If it doesn't work we lose nothing except a month of him developing at full back and he goes back there towards the end of the year or in 2015.

We'll have to agree to disagree about his athleticism but I see a lot of that 'playing loose' as being burnt off. I'm just watching his highlights now and:

First- Roughy looked to be sucked up to the ball carrier, you're right he was playing loose
Second- Roughy is body to body but Carlisle get's away over a few metres, leg speed or a good lead is debatable
Third- Carlisle has a paddock of space and burns Roughy, you don't get much footage but I can't see why Roughy would be anything but hip to hip.
Fourth- Roughy tries to mark in front, Carlisle simply jumps and reaches over him. Debatable whether Roughy should have punched but he had front spot
I'm taking these from this video here http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-07-20/showreel-kick-it-to-carlisle

For me the telling goal is the third highlight in the video where Carlisle burns him off considerably when given room, looked a carbon copy of what Cloke was able to do and what Josh Kennedy has done in the past. I don't want to seem like I'm repeating myself but these are the guys Roughy must make a career in stopping.

This week against the Hawks will be an interesting example, If Jordan doesn't play on Jarryd Roughead who is far more athletic who does he go to? He will take a resting ruckman but there are few other options available. Jordan has some big scalps as a full back but I can't think of any other successful full back of the modern age who fits the same athletic and size profile except for Dustin Fletcher who has always been renowned for his exceptional closing speed.

[Bulldog4life]

I want to win games, neither Talia or Roberts have performed better than Austin. Roberts is too slow to be a 3rd tall defender and if he isn't strong or athletic enough to play on a Carlisle. Campbell at least has form on his side but I'd rather Jones.
If you are so gun ho on Campbell why didn't you pick him in the match committee thread?

Yes that is his major weakness.

[Sedat]

Can we just put it down to Roughy having a bad at the office....happens to all from time to time. Nothing more nothing less.
I'm happy to do this. He's had far more good games than bad playing at full back - just happened to stink it up yesterday.

[Mofra]

It seems to be the default position for so many when Roughy has a bad game in defence that we should just give up playing him as a key defender and move him back to the forward/2nd ruck role where he's naturally just going to blossom, when in fact he's never looked like being competent in that role. The best footy he's played in his AFL career has been as a backman, and any time he's played elsewhere he's looked like a marginal AFL prospect.
I'm not so sure - he has certainly shown that he can take a mark forward, but the last few times he had significant minutes as a forward at AFL level his kicking for goal was woeful.

He's a 200cm+ kid and still firmly a work in progress - for all his faults he is well ahead of Jones & Cordy whom he was picked with

[Ozza]

I'm happy to do this. He's had far more good games than bad playing at full back - just happened to stink it up yesterday.

Agree with this.
Also think that once he can get his shoulder in better/stronger shape - we will see an improved Roughead. I suspect carrying the shoulder niggle takes the edge off him a bit in the air at the moment.

[Mantis]

Also think that once he can get his shoulder in better/stronger shape - we will see an improved Roughead. I suspect carrying the shoulder niggle takes the edge off him a bit in the air at the moment.

If this is the reason for some shoddy performances (think Port game, Coll game.. most recent games in fact) at what point do we pull up stumps for the year?

Him playing hurt isn't helping the team so why bother?

[LostDoggy]

If this is the reason for some shoddy performances (think Port game, Coll game.. most recent games in fact) at what point do we pull up stumps for the year?

Him playing hurt isn't helping the team so why bother?

Agree with this. I get the feeling his shoulder(s) need operating on. Why not do it now, get him back raring to go day 1 of pre season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If this is the reason for some shoddy performances (think Port game, Coll game.. most recent games in fact) at what point do we pull up stumps for the year?

Him playing hurt isn't helping the team so why bother?

Agree with this.

Every game since returning, Roughy has gone down holding his shoulder at some point. Did it again yesterday.

[Greystache]

Most of those games Roughead would have played as a ruck/forward were in his first 30 between the ages of 19 and 21, I agree he looked out of his depth for the vast majority but we'd all agree big blokes take time and there are few if any who play stellar footy that young at his size. He's a 23 year old now with 68 games of footy under his belt and has played on some very good forwards, I'd give him a crack forward under the assumption he has seriously developed as an AFL player during his span of time in the backline. If it doesn't work we lose nothing except a month of him developing at full back and he goes back there towards the end of the year or in 2015.



I'm not so sure - he has certainly shown that he can take a mark forward, but the last few times he had significant minutes as a forward at AFL level his kicking for goal was woeful.

He's a 200cm+ kid and still firmly a work in progress - for all his faults he is well ahead of Jones & Cordy whom he was picked with

He's played forward in patches this year, he wasn't very impressive. I see defence as his most likely position to have a successful AFL career, he's just having a bad patch. As others have said I suspect he's carry a shoulder injury that's hindering him.

I don't understand why Roberts isn't playing. He's been easily our best defender at VFL level, and his last few weeks have been excellent.

[dog town]

Agree on all counts, especially the paragraph on our senior players not standing up in the heat of the last qtr - Griffen excepted. Minson had a typical Minson game - did 2-3 fantastic things but then gave away far too many frees and was also torched going the other way due to a lack of athleticism. And he can't be given a bigger chop-out with Campbell's inclusion because he doesn't offer anything elsewhere on the ground. If he can't ruck for 95% of the game and maintain his form for the duration, he starts to become a liability. Griffen had a huge last quarter really but I would like to see him take responsibility and be a little more selfish sometimes. He could have pulled the trigger and kicked a crucial goal at one stage in the last quarter but handballed and we fumbled. For a man of with such ridiculous ability he does this a little too often for my liking. It is quite harsh given that he is bringing others into the game but I don't think we get enough damage from him.

[always right]

Griffen had a huge last quarter really but I would like to see him take responsibility and be a little more selfish sometimes. He could have pulled the trigger and kicked a crucial goal at one stage in the last quarter but handballed and we fumbled. For a man of with such ridiculous ability he does this a little too often for my liking. It is quite harsh given that he is bringing others into the game but I don't think we get enough damage from him.

I know the passage you are talking about. He managed to baulk one player but the second one closed him down....handballing was the right option. Unfortunately Stevens fumbled.

Most teams are very conscious of Griffen's ability to kick goals from distance. It's why you see them scramble whenever he approaches any distance within 60m.

[Scorlibo]

Griffen had a huge last quarter really but I would like to see him take responsibility and be a little more selfish sometimes. He could have pulled the trigger and kicked a crucial goal at one stage in the last quarter but handballed and we fumbled. For a man of with such ridiculous ability he does this a little too often for my liking. It is quite harsh given that he is bringing others into the game but I don't think we get enough damage from him.

100% agree with you. Players like Griffen and Stringer who can bust through tackles are so rare that they just need to be looking to utilise that ability, and capitalise, whenever they can. The next time Griff touched the ball, he didn't muck around, and set up the goal for Bont. I liked that.

[Sedat]

At 94-all, we contested the next centre bounce without Libba. Was a big mistake in hindsight. We should have rushed him back on after Bont's goal to make sure we could at least halve the contest in the middle - instead Essendon got the centre clearance and scored a goal soon afterwards.

[lemmon]

At 94-all, we contested the next centre bounce without Libba. Was a big mistake in hindsight. We should have rushed him back on after Bont's goal to make sure we could at least halve the contest in the middle - instead Essendon got the centre clearance and scored a goal soon afterwards.

As an extension of that I didn't think we were great in the middle all day. On paper I thought we should have belted Essendon in contested footy and had first use for the majority but Ryder was good and their mids fed on that

[jeemak]

Griffen had a huge last quarter really but I would like to see him take responsibility and be a little more selfish sometimes. He could have pulled the trigger and kicked a crucial goal at one stage in the last quarter but handballed and we fumbled. For a man of with such ridiculous ability he does this a little too often for my liking. It is quite harsh given that he is bringing others into the game but I don't think we get enough damage from him.


I know the passage you are talking about. He managed to baulk one player but the second one closed him down....handballing was the right option. Unfortunately Stevens fumbled.

Most teams are very conscious of Griffen's ability to kick goals from distance. It's why you see them scramble whenever he approaches any distance within 60m.


100% agree with you. Players like Griffen and Stringer who can bust through tackles are so rare that they just need to be looking to utilise that ability, and capitalise, whenever they can. The next time Griff touched the ball, he didn't muck around, and set up the goal for Bont. I liked that.

My memory might be hazy however, I thought he could have pulled the trigger rather than baulk (which he did to release Stevens by drawing fire to himself) as he was on about the 50m line.

I think he's a touch too unselfish at times.

[Ozza]

At 94-all, we contested the next centre bounce without Libba. Was a big mistake in hindsight. We should have rushed him back on after Bont's goal to make sure we could at least halve the contest in the middle - instead Essendon got the centre clearance and scored a goal soon afterwards.

Noticed that also....Libba didn't know quite what to do with himself, and then trudged out to the wing. From memory it was definitely Boyd and Griffen inside, and I think the other was Cooney. Little bit of the senior blokes pulling rank and trying to take responsibility for winning it out...would think it will get highlighted to them as an error to have our no.1 clearance man standing on a wing.

[Ozza]

My memory might be hazy however, I thought he could have pulled the trigger rather than baulk (which he did to release Stevens by drawing fire to himself) as he was on about the 50m line.

I think he's a touch too unselfish at times.

I thought he should have taken the shot. The handball to Stevens looked ordinary from side on...low and in front of him, and Stevens certainly didn't make it look any better (Bont would have just grabbed it in one duke!).

[GVGjr]

Are they the same reasons the MC weren't prepared to move Austin onto him?

Austin and Roberts both have there weaknesses, but I'm all for playing the bloke who has far much more upside. Especially given the circumstances of our season currently.


Don't think it's a MC decision on match days. They assist in picking the squad but Macca has to change things around given how the game is panning out. They might have thought plan A was going to work and Macca changed it up given the match conditions.

If you only wanting to play the youngsters "with upside" then why would we play anyone over the age of 25 or 26 for the balance of the season? I don't think we should gift games just because of a players age. JJ for instance has had to work his way back into form and has done very well because of it. I don't think gifting games helps with the development of players anyway.

I don't have a problem with Roberts but he hasn't knocked the door down. He was good on Sunday though. To me he is just a bit slower than Austin and I don't think he is any stronger.

[anfo27]

Don't think it's a MC decision on match days. They assist in picking the squad but Macca has to change things around given how the game is panning out. They might have thought plan A was going to work and Macca changed it up given the match conditions.

If you only wanting to play the youngsters "with upside" then why would we play anyone over the age of 25 or 26 for the balance of the season? I don't think we should gift games just because of a players age. JJ for instance has had to work his way back into form and has done very well because of it. I don't think gifting games helps with the development of players anyway.

I don't have a problem with Roberts but he hasn't knocked the door down. He was good on Sunday though. To me he is just a bit slower than Austin and I don't think he is any stronger.

Fletch is a hell of a lot more polished with the ball though. You can't have too many guys in the back half who aren't great with the ball and we have a few of them back there.

[LostDoggy]

Don't think it's a MC decision on match days. They assist in picking the squad but Macca has to change things around given how the game is panning out. They might have thought plan A was going to work and Macca changed it up given the match conditions.

If you only wanting to play the youngsters "with upside" then why would we play anyone over the age of 25 or 26 for the balance of the season? I don't think we should gift games just because of a players age. JJ for instance has had to work his way back into form and has done very well because of it. I don't think gifting games helps with the development of players anyway.

I don't have a problem with Roberts but he hasn't knocked the door down. He was good on Sunday though. To me he is just a bit slower than Austin and I don't think he is any stronger.

Not sure where that has come from as that was never said.

I'm of the strong opinion if you have 2 blokes that are fairly similiar players, both have glaring weaknesses and I would argue the performance of both when in the senior side has been pretty even. Then I would rather be getting games into the younger player who is improving at a pretty good rate, rather than keep playing Austin who has possibly reached his ceiling as a footballer.

With Morris, Roughead and Picken already in defense. Roberts foot skills would be a welcome addition. Can't really afford to have 4 blokes in your back half who aren't the greatest by foot anymore.

Roberts has been very solid all year without breaking the door down. But hasn't done alot wrong when given the chance at AFL level. Which is about how I would sum up Austins season to date.

[LostDoggy]

When was the extended period that Austin, as a rookie listed player, knocked the door down?

[Dry Rot]

Tonight Grundy showed why Roughead isn't a very good fullback.

[Twodogs]

Tonight Grundy showed why Roughead isn't a very good fullback.


He was good wasn't he?

[Dry Rot]

He was good wasn't he?

Yes. Ditto Teddy Richards.

I'm very amused how the Swans have conned the rest of the competition and fans with all the attention on Franklin, the COLA and Tippett.

Everyone forgets about the Swans great back men, and bizarrely good young 'uns like Parker.

[bornadog]

Tonight Grundy showed why Roughead isn't a very good fullback.

Very harsh on a guy who has only played a couple of seasons at fullback and less than 70 games and not peaked yet as a tall at age 23 years only compared to Grundy with 157 games and aged 28

[G-Mo77]

Yes. Ditto Teddy Richards.

I'm very amused how the Swans have conned the rest of the competition and fans with all the attention on Franklin, the COLA and Tippett.


You might find it funny, I find it disgusting that a team gets such a big advantage on the rest of the league.

[Twodogs]

Yes. Ditto Teddy Richards.

I'm very amused how the Swans have conned the rest of the competition and fans with all the attention on Franklin, the COLA and Tippett.

Everyone forgets about the Swans great back men, and bizarrely good young 'uns like Parker.

A lot of people thought the Swans were paying overs to Essendon for Ted Richards. In fact at the time I'm pretty sure journos were saying the AFL should step in and stop the trade going through.