Higgins....How hard should the club fight to keep him?

[LostDoggy]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-29/four-clubs-circle-higgins

Never a good sign when these articles appear around this time of the year.
Interested to hear the thoughts of the faithfull on this forum. How hard should we fight to keep him.

Apparently we offered 2 years and he wanted 3. Fair enough given his inconsistency and constant injuries.

[Sedat]

If he wants 3 years, we don't fight hard at all to keep him - pretty simple. The only fighting we should be doing is to AFL House to lobby them to square up our ridiculously poor compensation for Ward in the event that Higgins takes an offer elsewhere.

[Greystache]

I think we should make him an offer he can easily refuse. He's cream not cake, a nice player that can play a role in a good team, not a player that's going to make a team good. That's overlooking the fact that he's perennially carrying some sort of injury restricting his performance.

For all the talk of the leadership he offers, he seems to be overlooking the fact we've stuck by him through long periods of absence, and is chasing the highest offer he can get the moment he's able to. Doesn't sound like the type of leader I'd want to be under. If he wants to stay, fine, but he can do it on terms that suit us, not on where he feels he should be.

[always right]

Not a lot of love for Higgins it seems. What is it about him that hasn't endeared him to supporters like say Tom Williams did?

[Hotdog60]

A player that has offered so much and produced so little.
He could have been a major star of the competition at this stage in his career but injury has always set him back.
I think now it has destroyed any hope of him really reaching stardom, still a good player but you wouldn't go overboard on a contract with so of the younger brigade coming on.

[bornadog]

Sick of supporters expecting every player to be a star week in week out, getting 30 plus possessions. Reality is rarely do teams have more than two or three A Graders.

We need players contributing every week and doing their job, especially in the 24 to 28 years bracket. Guys like Higgins, Grant are now in that bracket and supporters don't care if they leave, yet every one screams blue murder saying we are unbalanced and don't have players in that bracket.

To me Higgins is a required player and is at the right age to be a leader at the club. He has shown this year he has class and the ability to do the job the coach requires. Yes he has been out of form the past few weeks and has been dropped to regain his form form earlier in the year.

Lets get this resolved and keep a player of his immense talent.

[LostDoggy]

Sick of supporters expecting every player to be a star week in week out, getting 30 plus possessions. Reality is rarely do teams have more than two or three A Graders.

We need players contributing every week and doing their job, especially in the 24 to 28 years bracket. Guys like Higgins, Grant are now in that bracket and supporters don't care if they leave, yet every one screams blue murder saying we are unbalanced and don't have players in that bracket.

To me Higgins is a required player and is at the right age to be a leader at the club. He has shown this year he has class and the ability to do the job the coach requires. Yes he has been out of form the past few weeks and has been dropped to regain his form form earlier in the year.

Lets get this resolved and keep a player of his immense talent.

That's all very true. But if Higgins is exploring options elsewhere and has a 3 year deal for 400k on the table. Would you be prepared to match that given his durability to date?

[bornadog]

That's all very true. But if Higgins is exploring options elsewhere and has a 3 year deal for 400k on the table. Would you be prepared to match that given his durability to date?

I really don't care about the money, not my problem. The salary players are paid is up to the club to balance out, not supporters. We should be worried more about the investment we have put into this guy and whether we believe he is the right player for the team.

[Sedat]

Sick of supporters expecting every player to be a star week in week out, getting 30 plus possessions. Reality is rarely do teams have more than two or three A Graders.

We need players contributing every week and doing their job, especially in the 24 to 28 years bracket. Guys like Higgins, Grant are now in that bracket and supporters don't care if they leave, yet every one screams blue murder saying we are unbalanced and don't have players in that bracket.

To me Higgins is a required player and is at the right age to be a leader at the club. He has shown this year he has class and the ability to do the job the coach requires. Yes he has been out of form the past few weeks and has been dropped to regain his form form earlier in the year.

Lets get this resolved and keep a player of his immense talent.
Giving Higgins a 3 year contract is the height of list management irresponsibility for the myriad of reasons stated by others. If another club is prepared to offer him that, we should rightly step aside.

[bornadog]

Giving Higgins a 3 year contract is the height of list management irresponsibility for the myriad of reasons stated by others. If another club is prepared to offer him that, we should rightly step aside.

Reasons???? Is that the clubs positions? Yep and let another player go that is in the right bracket. Do you realise for the past at least 10 years we have had a lack of players on our list in the 100 to 150 game bracket. Tells you something.

[Greystache]

Sick of supporters expecting every player to be a star week in week out, getting 30 plus possessions. Reality is rarely do teams have more than two or three A Graders.

We need players contributing every week and doing their job, especially in the 24 to 28 years bracket. Guys like Higgins, Grant are now in that bracket and supporters don't care if they leave, yet every one screams blue murder saying we are unbalanced and don't have players in that bracket.

To me Higgins is a required player and is at the right age to be a leader at the club. He has shown this year he has class and the ability to do the job the coach requires. Yes he has been out of form the past few weeks and has been dropped to regain his form form earlier in the year.

Lets get this resolved and keep a player of his immense talent.

No, what supporters are screaming blue murder about is we don't have QUALITY players in that age bracket. Higgins and Grant are currently being kept out of the seniors by a group of young kids or aging veterans. Guys in that age bracket should be the backbone of the team, not fringe bit part players. If it was just about age profile we would've kept Addison on this year.

[LostDoggy]

I really don't care about the money, not my problem. The salary players are paid is up to the club to balance out, not supporters. We should be worried more about the investment we have put into this guy and whether we believe he is the right player for the team.

What...? Isn't whether we keep Higgins or not also up the club, not supporters? Pretty sure the length of contract and the salary Higgins demands is apart of the discussion...

Maybe Higgins should be more worried about the time and investment the club has put into him before he goes chasing a better contract.

[bornadog]

No, what supporters are screaming blue murder about is we don't have QUALITY players in that age bracket. Higgins and Grant are currently being kept out of the seniors by a group of young kids or aging veterans. Guys in that age bracket should be the backbone of the team, not fringe bit part players. If it was just about age profile we would've kept Addison on this year.

So Higgins is a fringe player :confused: - bloody hell, you have really lost me now. As for Grant, we know your feelings about him so no comment.

[Sedat]

Reasons???? Is that the clubs positions? Yep and let another player go that is in the right bracket. Do you realise for the past at least 10 years we have had a lack of players on our list in the 100 to 150 game bracket. Tells you something.
Current age, lack of durability, lack of leg speed, lack of defensive intent. A 3 year contract is madness for Higgins based on those factors alone IMO. Higgins has talent but we would be far better served from a list management perspective to invest his salary expectations for the next 3 years into shoring up our emerging stars. Locking away a decent portion of salary cap space on Higgins in the next 3 years is simply not worth the return, nor is it worth the risk of losing a younger and better player.

[bornadog]

Current age, lack of durability, lack of leg speed, lack of defensive intent. A 3 year contract is madness for Higgins based on those factors alone IMO. Higgins has talent but we would be far better served from a list management perspective to invest his salary expectations for the next 3 years into shoring up our emerging stars. Locking away a decent portion of salary cap space on Higgins in the next 3 years is simply not worth the return, nor is it worth the risk of losing a younger and better player.

I think the two year offer is about right.

[Greystache]

So Higgins is a fringe player :confused: - bloody hell, you have really lost me now. As for Grant, we know your feelings about him so no comment.

Neither has ever finished in the top 10 of the B&F despite being on the list for 9 and 7 years respectively. Neither has ever produced consistently good form. Both are currently playing reserves.

But yeah they are must haves regardless of cost :rolleyes:

[bornadog]

But yeah they are must haves regardless of cost :rolleyes:

You love to twist things don't you. If you read my post I said its not something supporters should not worry about. Cost is something list management needs to balance out.

[Greystache]

You love to twist things don't you. If you read my post I said its not something supporters should not worry about. Cost is something list management needs to balance out.

I read it but it was ridiculous. Supporters shouldn't worry about real world things like costs and salary cap, that's someone else's problem? Why not demand we recruit 12 free agents this year, afterall the cost is list management's problem.

If a player is in the 24-28 age bracket (ie the years they should be at their peak), yet have never been a top 10 in the B&F, and in this case is playing reserves, they are expendable.

[Sedat]

I think the two year offer is about right.
If he can get 3 years elsewhere good luck to him. We would lose very little on the field by playing a Darley in his position for all of next season, and gain much more cap space in the process which will be critical when the wolves come knocking on the door for the likes of Macrae, Bont, Hrovat, Stringer, Hunter, etc...

Age profile means very little if the player is not one of the club leaders and elite players. Griff is only a year older and has had 3 times the career of Higgins - granted injuries have cruelled his career. To not ever finish top 10 in the B&F over the course of 9 seasons is pretty damning. As 'stache says, he a cream on the cake type player and not a club leader as he should have become by now.

The decisions we make on our list in the next year or two will be critical to our ability to contend and even win a flag. IMO it would be folly to invest 3 years and decent coin to Higgins right now, and it will compromise us with the list configuration in that time.

[Mantis]

I'm happy for him to walk if he receives the offer he is after.. He know doubt adds a bit of polish to the team, but happy to give more game time to the developing players in the squad.

Would be keener to keep him if Murf was struggling, but that isn't the case.

[The Doctor]

I would prefer to see Higgins stay but it depends on the cost and his attitude about the club. Also from the club's view, where do they see him fitting in in the longer term and what could we gain from his departure?

If he gets a decent offer and some long term security thats better than what we are prepared to offer then good luck to him. I think he would be in the upper echelon of pay earners at the dogs. Whether he is entitled to be at this stage is arguable. But I think it would open up a fair bit of cap space.

From a list management point of view I wonder if it would be prudent to pick up a compo pick and use it on another good kid but also save the $$ for a season and use it to have a DECENT crack at one the big boys from GWS or GCS who are coming out of contract at the end of 2015?

[Mofra]

From a list management point of view I wonder if it would be prudent to pick up a compo pick and use it on another good kid but also save the $$ for a season and use it to have a DECENT crack at one the big boys from GWS or GCS who are coming out of contract at the end of 2015?
I agree with the sentiment but that scenario relies on those players still being out of contract at the end of 2015 - GWS has done pretty well in keeping the players they want, with only Tyson the kid they really wanted to keep making a move.

[Remi Moses]

No, what supporters are screaming blue murder about is we don't have QUALITY players in that age bracket. Higgins and Grant are currently being kept out of the seniors by a group of young kids or aging veterans. Guys in that age bracket should be the backbone of the team, not fringe bit part players. If it was just about age profile we would've kept Addison on this year.
Yep. Why should players get a gig because they're in that age group?

[Bulldog Joe]

deleted - double post

[bornadog]

Yep. Why should players get a gig because they're in that age group?

He is a quality player and sought after by several clubs including Carlton and Richmond, he is no fringe player as suggested and not getting a gig because he is in that age bracket.

[Bulldog Joe]

I would prefer to see Higgins stay but it depends on the cost and his attitude about the club. Also from the club's view, where do they see him fitting in in the longer term and what could we gain from his departure?

If he gets a decent offer and some long term security thats better than what we are prepared to offer then good luck to him. I think he would be in the upper echelon of pay earners at the dogs. Whether he is entitled to be at this stage is arguable. But I think it would open up a fair bit of cap space.

From a list management point of view I wonder if it would be prudent to pick up a compo pick and use it on another good kid but also save the $$ for a season and use it to have a DECENT crack at one the big boys from GWS or GCS who are coming out of contract at the end of 2015?

Higgins is listed as a restricted free agent. Doesn't that mean he is in the top 5 earners at the club.

[Axe Man]

From a list management point of view I wonder if it would be prudent to pick up a compo pick and use it on another good kid but also save the $$ for a season and use it to have a DECENT crack at one the big boys from GWS or GCS who are coming out of contract at the end of 2015?

The new salary cap rules where you can bank unspent cap room and use it the next year could make this approach successful. Under the rules we can spend 95% of the cap in 2015 and then 105% in 2016 in order to attract a high priced recruit.

[Axe Man]

Higgins is listed as a restricted free agent. Doesn't that mean he is in the top 5 earners at the club.

Top 25%, so top 9 or 10 players.

[Happy Days]

Our level of prioritisation given to keeping Higgins really depends on both how much longer we think Murphy has left (should be one more season) and how much faith we have in Darley, Young or whoever to fill a role on a flank (should be not a lot). Higgins is not a defender's fist but he is probably our best offensive prospect off a back flank should Bob pull up stumps after next season.

I'd keep him within reason, but if we don't we need to get a player of shared attributes (good kick, good decision maker, good looking) who is ready to go by 2016.

[comrade]

Our level of prioritisation given to keeping Higgins really depends on both how much longer we think Murphy has left (should be one more season) and how much faith we have in Darley, Young or whoever to fill a role on a flank (should be not a lot). Higgins is not a defender's fist but he is probably our best offensive prospect off a back flank should Bob pull up stumps after next season.

I'd keep him within reason, but if we don't we need to get a player of shared attributes (good kick, good decision maker, good looking) who is ready to go by 2016.

I'm confident JJ can adequately fill the offensive rebounding role off half back and even move up the field in time. Let's not forget, before he was poleaxed by Cameron his form was trending up in a big way and his recent performances have been encouraging.

Darley is another who will be a solid performer for us. I agree, that if Higgins does move on, we should look for a running, clever back flanker in this draft.

Losing Higgins should not be a massive concern for us, despite his 'age profile'.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

So Higgins is a fringe player :confused: - bloody hell, you have really lost me now. As for Grant, we know your feelings about him so no comment.

BAD I like your passion but when Higgins and Grant are not considered good enough to be in our best 22, then I believe it is time to move on, without both of them. We are also a bottom 4 team at the moment and still need to improve our list with at least 7-8 players IMO not good enough. Grant as a top 4 draft pick has been a big disappointment. Higgins has been injury prone for a lot of his career which has limited his ability to be a consistent performer. You are right about the dearth of talent at our disposal in the 25-28 age bracket, which has much to do about our past recruiting.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Good luck to him if he gets an offer of 3 years, go for it with all of our best wishes.

As others noted, he is behind the likes of Murphy, Wood, Morris, Rough, JJ, Picken & Darley IMO, I don't think he going to be in front of any of our midfielder and has no defensive game for the forward line.

I think that Shaun will offer us another good season next year that will add value to our side/list/club. In two years he will offer good service only. However after this I can see him slowing up and not worth a punt when we have young guys with pace, drive and commitment - something shaun at times lacks.

[FrediKanoute]

Higgins is a quality player when fit and on the park. I think though under MAcca he really has struggled to fit the type of player Macca wants. He just isn't.

2 year deal to me seems about right, especially in light of his injury record. Maybe a 2 year deal with a bonus 3rd if he meets certain criteria (ie plays 80% of games in both seasons, finishes top 10 B&F in both seasons)

[Scorlibo]

Neither has ever finished in the top 10 of the B&F despite being on the list for 9 and 7 years respectively. Neither has ever produced consistently good form. Both are currently playing reserves.

But yeah they are must haves regardless of cost :rolleyes:

Higgins has never played more than 20 matches in a season. 2009 was his best season, playing 20 games and finishing 8th in the best and fairest. He also finished 10th in 2011 from 18 games. So he has 2 top ten finishes.

Higgins is hardly our most valuable player moving forward, but I'd prefer to keep him than not. An attitude that dictates a player either accept the deal being offered to them or leave is so premature in the context of the competition. Higgins is one of just two players in the competition who can move freely come the end of the year, this isn't an open market and we can't afford to be getting up on our high horse when negotiating with our good players. In other words, the money we would be saving by NOT signing him is only good to us if we actually get to use it to sign a new player or keep a player who may be leaving. It's like downgrading with your last trade in supercoach.

[Happy Days]

I'm confident JJ can adequately fill the offensive rebounding role off half back and even move up the field in time. Let's not forget, before he was poleaxed by Cameron his form was trending up in a big way and his recent performances have been encouraging.

Darley is another who will be a solid performer for us. I agree, that if Higgins does move on, we should look for a running, clever back flanker in this draft.

Losing Higgins should not be a massive concern for us, despite his 'age profile'.

Deliberately didn't mention JJ, not because I don't rate him (I do), but because you need at least 2 guys in the backline who aren't really defenders; sort of taking JJ as a given which may be overs in itself. The Swans have about a million of them and everyone in Hawthorn's back 6 is a plus kick; no coincidence they're two of the best in the league.

[F'scary]

Classy goal sneak who can double up as the back flank playmaker. Got to be worth a first round compensation pick.

[Remi Moses]

He is a quality player and sought after by several clubs including Carlton and Richmond, he is no fringe player as suggested and not getting a gig because he is in that age bracket.

For Goodness sake he is not a quality player.
He has underachieved in his career.
Stop the cheerleading

[F'scary]

For Goodness sake he is not a quality player.
He has underachieved in his career.
Stop the cheerleading

shhhh...talk him up, for chrisake.

[jeemak]

Sanity check:

- Has Higgins actually been given other offers?
- Does Higgins offer us more or less than what we could procure from
*Free agent
*Trade

- Does Higgins want to leave the Bulldogs?
- Has Higgins being dropped and recalled been a bad thing for his game?
- Does anyone on this board know what the &%@# is going on with Higgins and the club?

Pretty sure most of the above are unanswerable. With that in mind, I can't understand the shit fight.

He's back in the side this week. Until he was dropped most of us thought he was playing OK (much like Wood being dropped, this week).

Let's just relax for a bit.

[G-Mo77]

Let's just relax for a bit.

C'Mon Jeemak, let everyone go round and round in circles. :)

I'd rather he stay but there is a limit. Max 2 years, other clubs offering more I'd let him go.

[jeemak]

C'Mon Jeemak, let everyone go round and round in circles. :)

I'd rather he stay but there is a limit. Max 2 years, other clubs offering more I'd let him go.

We get to organise our list to account for him being offered free agency deals, with the caveat we can keep him or get rid of him if the free agency deals are reasonable or otherwise.

I don't see what the fuss is about.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, this discussion is going to continue for a few months with games like today.

[craigsahibee]

Well, this discussion is going to continue for a few months with games like today.

Didn't see the game today. I can only assume he was ordinary (along with a few mates). He's not a part of our next tilt at a flag. Move him on.

[Mofra]

Well, this discussion is going to continue for a few months with games like today.
He did a few good things with the ball, but his lack of pace is very noticeable.
I thought Darley showed a few signs and if he has a decent pre-season Higgins' loss should be covered.

[always right]

Not sure why no-one has mentioned that Higgins was tagging Hill yesterday. Not your obvious match-up on paper as Higgins has nowhere near the pace that Hill has. His method appeared to be to allow Hill to run to space and gather the ball...then corral him. Whilst Hill was not particularly damaging it meant we actually got very little out of Higgins. It was however a very different role for Higgins so I'm not sure he deserves all the criticism for yesterday.

[always right]

He did a few good things with the ball, but his lack of pace is very noticeable.
I thought Darley showed a few signs and if he has a decent pre-season Higgins' loss should be covered.

There appears to have been a focus on his defensive work. I was impressed with one passage in the third quarter when he managed to square a willing contest with Puopulo when we looked vulnerable. Definitely something to work with as his disposal skills are excellent.

[Bulldog4life]

It appears to me that Higgins was just going through the motions without that fire in his belly. As I said that is the way it appeared. I am aware he always gives the impression of cruising when sometimes even playing well. Not sure at this stage whether Sean is a definite required player at the kennel.

[The Underdog]

One thing that was noticeable even on TV with Higgins,was that when he was playing on Hill, he played about 10m goal side of him when the ball was in our forward half. I guess it stopped Hill breaking forward and was to compensate for the pace differential between them. I'm assuming it was under instruction but is interesting considering that in the Geelong game before he got dropped, we were burned by players getting forward of the contest and scoring easy goals.

[bornadog]

One thing that was noticeable even on TV with Higgins,was that when he was playing on Hill, he played about 10m goal side of him when the ball was in our forward half. I guess it stopped Hill breaking forward and was to compensate for the pace differential between them. I'm assuming it was under instruction but is interesting considering that in the Geelong game before he got dropped, we were burned by players getting forward of the contest and scoring easy goals.

Good pickup, thought the same myself about his work on Hill. He was definitely under specific instructions.

[Murphy'sLore]

One thing that was noticeable even on TV with Higgins,was that when he was playing on Hill, he played about 10m goal side of him when the ball was in our forward half. I guess it stopped Hill breaking forward and was to compensate for the pace differential between them. I'm assuming it was under instruction but is interesting considering that in the Geelong game before he got dropped, we were burned by players getting forward of the contest and scoring easy goals.

Thank you. This is the kind of thing that I would never pick up in a million years without WOOF.

[Mofra]

There appears to have been a focus on his defensive work. I was impressed with one passage in the third quarter when he managed to square a willing contest with Puopulo when we looked vulnerable. Definitely something to work with as his disposal skills are excellent.
I noticed that contest too.

Seems all of our HB options have issues to work on - Wood doesn't find enough of the ball, Darley has to defend more closely, ditto Talia (I wont mention his disposal), JJ rotates through the middle, Murphy has only a couple of years left, Higgins is slow.

[LostDoggy]

We need players contributing every week and doing their job, especially in the 24 to 28 years bracket. Guys like Higgins, Grant are now in that bracket and supporters don't care if they leave, yet every one screams blue murder saying we are unbalanced and don't have players in that bracket.

To me Higgins is a required player and is at the right age to be a leader at the club.


Reasons???? Is that the clubs positions? Yep and let another player go that is in the right bracket. Do you realise for the past at least 10 years we have had a lack of players on our list in the 100 to 150 game bracket. Tells you something.


No, what supporters are screaming blue murder about is we don't have QUALITY players in that age bracket. Higgins and Grant are currently being kept out of the seniors by a group of young kids or aging veterans. Guys in that age bracket should be the backbone of the team, not fringe bit part players. If it was just about age profile we would've kept Addison on this year.


So Higgins is a fringe player :confused: - bloody hell, you have really lost me now. As for Grant, we know your feelings about him so no comment.

OK, so I have to side with the 'Stache here, BAD, sorry. Let's take a look at your assertion: that players in the 100-150 games bracket, between 24 and 28 years of age, are absolute must-haves and the reason we're sitting 14th being due to lack thereof. I've heard McCartney say this himself, so you're probably right.

Higgins is 8th on the list, for games played, behind Murph, Gia, Boyd, Cooney, Griff, Morris, and Minson (in that order). He's 26, so just plum in the middle of your 24-28 age utopia. He's missed 3 games this year, in Rounds 9, 17 and 18, and spent 81.4% time on ground, on average, during those 16 games. So you can't blame injury this year, though we'll all allow for a few interrupted preseasons.

Now, based on all that, he should be bloody entrenched in our top 10. Yet, as I see it, the following are ahead of him both in form and their import to the team (in no particular order):


Murphy
Boyd
Dahlhaus
Wood
Macrae
Griff
Cooney
Crameri
Libba
Roughead
Minson
Morris
Picken
Stevens – Happy to debate this one though


And these boys could very well eclipse Shaun in the next 2 years, which is the contract period we're discussing:


Stringer
Bontempelli
Hunter
Wallis
Jones
JJ


Not to mention anybody we recruit come October who can have more than a 10 minute impact on a game.

Now, take a big breath and ask yourself: Do we really need to pay the ransom yet again?


He is a quality player and sought after by several clubs including Carlton and Richmond, he is no fringe player as suggested and not getting a gig because he is in that age bracket.

Carlton and Richmond obviously don't have that same list of players they'd put ahead of Shaun. If they want him, let him go.

This topic should be renamed to "Higgins… how hard should he fight to remain a Bulldog?"

[Ozza]

Not sure why no-one has mentioned that Higgins was tagging Hill yesterday. Not your obvious match-up on paper as Higgins has nowhere near the pace that Hill has. His method appeared to be to allow Hill to run to space and gather the ball...then corral him. Whilst Hill was not particularly damaging it meant we actually got very little out of Higgins. It was however a very different role for Higgins so I'm not sure he deserves all the criticism for yesterday.

Thanks for posting this AR.
Its always a bit hard to tell the specific match ups in the middle of the ground when not at the game (unless captured specifically in the coverage - and it wasn't one I picked up on....possibly due to carrying on like a lunatic at missed set shots and players going to ground!).

[LostDoggy]

Nice effort BAS. I like it. The one thing i do question about Shaun is his position. If he was off a HF flank/roaming like he used to (between injuries) i believe he'd be firmly in that top ten. However, yours is based on reality of contribution, albeit in a new position, this season. My comment is based on previous efforts imputed into a theoretical return for this season.

350-400k for Shaun is about right, and cheap if we can get him back into his creative area of the park.

[bornadog]

OK, so I have to side with the 'Stache here, BAD, sorry. Let's take a look at your assertion: that players in the 100-150 games bracket, between 24 and 28 years of age, are absolute must-haves and the reason we're sitting 14th being due to lack thereof. I've heard McCartney say this himself, so you're probably right.

Higgins is 8th on the list, for games played, behind Murph, Gia, Boyd, Cooney, Griff, Morris, and Minson (in that order). He's 26, so just plum in the middle of your 24-28 age utopia. He's missed 3 games this year, in Rounds 9, 17 and 18, and spent 81.4% time on ground, on average, during those 16 games. So you can't blame injury this year, though we'll all allow for a few interrupted preseasons.

Now, based on all that, he should be bloody entrenched in our top 10. Yet, as I see it, the following are ahead of him both in form and their import to the team (in no particular order):


Murphy
Boyd
Dahlhaus
Wood
Macrae
Griff
Cooney
Crameri
Libba
Roughead
Minson
Morris
Picken
Stevens – Happy to debate this one though


And these boys could very well eclipse Shaun in the next 2 years, which is the contract period we're discussing:


Stringer
Bontempelli
Hunter
Wallis
Jones
JJ


Not to mention anybody we recruit come October who can have more than a 10 minute impact on a game.

Now, take a big breath and ask yourself: Do we really need to pay the ransom yet again?



Carlton and Richmond obviously don't have that same list of players they'd put ahead of Shaun. If they want him, let him go.

This topic should be renamed to "Higgins… how hard should he fight to remain a Bulldog?"

You have really done some research here, well done :rolleyes:

you forgot one quote, so let me help your research.


I think the two year offer is about right.

[bornadog]

North Melbourne push for Bulldog Higgins


North Melbourne is a serious contender to snare free-agent Bulldog Shaun Higgins, as the Roos continue their aggressive push into the free agency market.While Higgins has been largely linked to Carlton in previous speculation, it is understood that North is among the strongest suitors, having spoken to him and made him an offer.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/north-melbourne-push-for-bulldog-higgins-20140902-10bmjc.html#ixzz3CAHpEagC

[bulldogtragic]

Feeding frenzy?

Hope so. 4 years at $450,000 should net us pick 6 as compo.

[Remi Moses]

Feeding frenzy?

Hope so. 4 years at $450,000 should net us pick 6 as compo.

Can't see 4 years being offered . But the bonus is that Shaun's had an injury free run and a reasonably good year.
Let the frenzy begin.

[FrediKanoute]

Spot on the injury free year is a bonus for us if he decides to leave via free agency.....a little like Robin Van Percie leaving Arsenal for Man U after 1 injury free season - put his value up immeasurably.

I like Higgins. I like him less though as a rebounding half back.

[The Underdog]

I like Higgins, but I also think we can pretty comfortably cover his loss and if the compo ends up as an end of first round/early 2nd round pick I'm pretty comfortable with losing him.

[ReLoad]

There is another side to this equation, that's the potential compo pick, not only is the value in not paying for him overs, but what would we get in return via the draft?

I'd go so far as to say that it would even impact what we would bring in FA wise (i.e we do not bring anyone in on FA so that our draft pick stays high)

Personally looking at him where he is career wise, what he has given us vs what options we will have draft wise, id say, "thank you for your valuable service, you've been great and good luck in your career with another club".

lets milk the ridiculous compo system for what its worth.

[LostDoggy]

In Sydney meeting GWS this week. Two melbourne clubs still the front runners though (not us). Gonski

[bulldogtragic]

In Sydney meeting GWS this week. Two melbourne clubs still the front runners though (not us). Gonski

My best guesses:

Four years at over $400,000 = pick 6
Three years at $400,000 = pick 24 (pushed down to 27 or so)

Need to start a bidding war.

* assuming we don't get bring in a FA

[LostDoggy]

My best guesses:

Four years at over $400,000 = pick 6
Three years at $400,000 = pick 24 (pushed down to 27 or so)

Need to start a bidding war.

* assuming we don't get bring in a FA

We will not be given a pick 6 for Higgins in a million years. AFL has discrepancy and could give us a pick at the end of round 1 but that would be absolute maximum. Personally I think pick after our second rounder is fair all round.

[Webby]

lets milk the ridiculous compo system for what its worth.

You're preaching to the converted with me!

Under this system, a club can let 5 players leave under FA, pocket the compo picks, then go out and sign a replacement 5 FA players (for free), then use their five compo picks to draft 5 more players!!!

It's completely flawed and open to exploit! Therefore I'm completely comfortable with letting want away FA's go!

[LostDoggy]

You're preaching to the converted with me!

Under this system, a club can let 5 players leave under FA, pocket the compo picks, then go out and sign a replacement 5 FA players (for free), then use their five compo picks to draft 5 more players!!!

It's completely flawed and open to exploit! Therefore I'm completely comfortable with letting want away FA's go!

Not in the same year, the AFL gives you a nett result +/- with FA and compensates accordingly. I definitely agree that we should be playing the game though, and trying to exploit an immature system.

[bulldogtragic]

We will not be given a pick 6 for Higgins in a million years. AFL has discrepancy and could give us a pick at the end of round 1 but that would be absolute maximum. Personally I think pick after our second rounder is fair all round.
I agree we won't get it, but the system is flawed enough to allow for it. We just have to inflate the price as he restricted, to rephrase, we need force the value and length of rival offers.

[Mofra]

End of round 1, after other compo picks, will be in the 22-24 range I'd expect.

As an idea of value:

2013:
22 Darcy Gardiner
23 Matt Crouch
24 Billy Hartung

2012:
22 Dean Towers
23 Marco Paparone
24 Nathan Wright

2011:
22 Josh Bootsma
23 Murray Newman
24 Henry Schade

2010:
22 Mitch Wallis
23 Cam Guthrie
24 Jamie Cripps

2009:
22 Gerrick Weedon
23 Koby Stevens
24 Jake Carlisle

2008:
22 Jackson Trengove
23 David Zaharakis
24 Nic Suban

Mixed bag, some guns there though

[1eyedog]

I like Higgins, but I also think we can pretty comfortably cover his loss and if the compo ends up as an end of first round/early 2nd round pick I'm pretty comfortable with losing him.

To be honest I think the club will be too. I'm dubious as to how hard the club has tried to hang on to him and that's ok with me.

[Remi Moses]

End of first round pick would be very nice.

[funked]

For those who might be interested in a more statistical view, last pre-season I compiled some data to do with draft picks and the number of games played.

Applying that information here and assuming we're looking at a 22-24 draft pick, the highest average number of games is 119.7 if you only include players drafted between 1998-2000. Looking at the larger and more reasonable draft range of 1998-2008 shows that the average number of games is 75.9. You can check out more info here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/la92x6usjgjp5y3/AFL%20Draft%20Average%20Games.pdf?dl=0)

Looking at it another way, I declared that a player reaching 150 games was considered a good player. From that, in the same 22-24 draft range, the highest percentage of players to reach 150 games was 26.7%, with the draft range being set to 1998-2000. If the draft range is increased to 1998-2008, the numbers say that 12.7% of players drafted have reached the 150 games milestone. Again, you can check more info out here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzaim5vvsjh1sz1/AFL%20Draft%20Percentage.pdf?dl=0)

If Higgins wants to go, then I think we should let him go. But if he wants to stay, I think that saying about a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush is applicable.

[Remi Moses]

3AW rumour tonight Higgins has been offered a 4 year deal for 1.8 million!:eek:
Not Carlton apparently
Staggered with that offer

[Webby]

That'll get us end of first round pick, surely?!

[boydogs]

That'll get us end of first round pick, surely?!

Hard to argue greater than #26 for it when that's the same deal Crameri got

[Happy Days]

Hard to argue greater than #26 for it when that's the same deal Crameri got

Not how the compo works, it's on a band system.

Because nothing is better than popping bands.

[whythelongface]

3AW rumour tonight Higgins has been offered a 4 year deal for 1.8 million!:eek:
Not Carlton apparently
Staggered with that offer

He would be silly not to take it. It would be interesting to know what our offer was (not sure if it has been mentioned in the previous pages) - certainly wouldn't have been 4 years. Maybe 2 max within an option for a 3rd.

[divvydan]

In order to get a first round pick, Higgins would need to be offered somewhere around $600k+/year for 4+ years. He's not going to get anywhere near that.

A 4 year deal for around 450k/year might get us an end of first round pick, or possibly a 2nd round pick. The sample size of players isn't really large enough to be sure.

[bulldogtragic]

In order to get a first round pick, Higgins would need to be offered somewhere around $600k+/year for 4+ years. He's not going to get anywhere near that.

A 4 year deal for around 450k/year might get us an end of first round pick, or possibly a 2nd round pick. The sample size of players isn't really large enough to be sure.

It might have changed, but I thought there was scope in FA compo system to take a proposed counter offer to the AFL to see what compo might be if the player was allowed to walk. If it's the same this year, As soon as it opens up we should take that offer to the AFL and be asking for at least end of first round compo. If the AFL say 'yes' we let the Carlton medicos take him on and invest into another first round kid.

[Twodogs]

It does grind though. We stick with him year after year through all sorts of injuries and as soon as he gets some continuity in his game he's out the door to continue that continuity at another club. And were supposed to be OK with because he gets lots of cash. Oh and the abstract notion that we might recruit another teams player in the unlikely circumstance of us convincing one to join us.


Anyway good luck and all that to him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It does grind though. We stick with him year after year through all sorts of injuries and as soon as he gets some continuity in his game he's out the door to continue that continuity at another club. And were supposed to be OK with because he gets lots of cash. Oh and the abstract notion that we might recruit another teams player in the unlikely circumstance of us convincing one to join us.


Anyway good luck and all that to him.

I would have been upset had this occurred a year or two ago, but on output to date I don't rate him. No doubt injuries have slowed him down, as in 2009 he looked like a really classy player who could influence important moments in games. He did it a few times in that season, despite having a few niggles, but he really hasn't delivered anything of note since. Especially since we've been an average side.

He's not as quick or as agile as he once was (injuries, I assume), his contested marking is now non-existent and his defensive game is really poor (which makes playing him off half back full time interesting). It's a shame because he was really gifted as a young player, but I see him now as no more than an 'icing on the cake' type of player. Which makes Carlton's heavy interest in him confusing, given the state of their list.

Either way, whatever club he plays for, he should be alternating between half forward and midfield.

[Remi Moses]

I would have been upset had this occurred a year or two ago, but on output to date I don't rate him. No doubt injuries have slowed him down, as in 2009 he looked like a really classy player who could influence important moments in games. He did it a few times in that season, despite having a few niggles, but he really hasn't delivered anything of note since. Especially since we've been an average side.

He's not as quick or as agile as he once was (injuries, I assume), his contested marking is now non-existent and his defensive game is really poor (which makes playing him off half back full time interesting). It's a shame because he was really gifted as a young player, but I see him now as no more than an 'icing on the cake' type of player. Which makes Carlton's heavy interest in him confusing, given the state of their list.

Either way, whatever club he plays for, he should be alternating between half forward and midfield.

I'm staggered Carlton are interested.
I actually think they don't know where they're at as a list, or they're completely deluded.

[bornadog]

Shaun Higgins still weighing up his future at Whitten Oval


Western Bulldogs utility Shaun Higgins has reopened contract negotiations, but has yet to decide whether he will remain at the club.Higgins' manager Bruce Kaider met the club this week, and discussions will intensify next week.
"We haven't come to an agreement at this point," Kaider said on Friday. "Discussions are ongoing. We will talk to the club again next week."
Kaider would not reveal contractual issues, but it's understood finances and the length of the contract aren't the only issues being debated.

Higgins is the only restricted free agent in the AFL yet to re-sign with his club. It's understood the Bulldogs put a two-year deal to Higgins months ago, but the classy utility wanted to assess his options once the season was done.
Carlton, North Melbourne and Geelong have been linked to the 26-year-old.
Higgins, used more in a defensive role this season, averaged more than 20 possessions in 20 matches, confirming that he had overcome a serious foot injury which derailed his 2013 campaign.
Rival clubs cannot formally offer Higgins a contract until free agency opens on October 3. As he is a restricted free agent, the Dogs can match the offer. The Dogs would be compensated with a draft selection, possibly immediately after the first round, should he leave.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shaun-higgins-still-weighing-up-his-future-at-whitten-oval-20140912-10g5vj.html#ixzz3D6r4PGss

[Twodogs]

I would have been upset had this occurred a year or two ago, but on output to date I don't rate him. No doubt injuries have slowed him down, as in 2009 he looked like a really classy player who could influence important moments in games. He did it a few times in that season, despite having a few niggles, but he really hasn't delivered anything of note since. Especially since we've been an average side.

He's not as quick or as agile as he once was (injuries, I assume), his contested marking is now non-existent and his defensive game is really poor (which makes playing him off half back full time interesting). It's a shame because he was really gifted as a young player, but I see him now as no more than an 'icing on the cake' type of player. Which makes Carlton's heavy interest in him confusing, given the state of their list.

Either way, whatever club he plays for, he should be alternating between half forward and midfield.


Good post.

I guess we could be trading him out at his best market value although that article that BAD posted seems to point toward him staying. Or at least making tentative noises about doing that.

[ledge]

Looks like he wants to stay but of course doing due diligence and wanting to get the best he can.
Press have been on it because he was the last free agent not to sign so of course he is leaving by their rules.
I'm not fussed either way except to know the kid can play and it be a shame to lose him after all the work we did, but on the other hand we would get a nice draft pick.

[w3design]

Higgins is interesting in that he seems to be rated on great halves or quarters played in finals 5 or so years ago.

his skills and decision making under pressure are ordinary, yet you keep reading about silky skills. I thinks has kicking action is silky, not the result.

contrary to popular belief he his not soft at all.

his forward defensive pressure is poor, it is why he is better down back where hi is forced to be defensive.

he is not quick enough for the midfield, particularly pushing back on opposition mids.

Is he good enough going forward to be in the best 22? Yes

Will he be a game breaking top 10 player? no

Therefore, comfortable whatever way this goes with no grudges held

[azabob]

Looks like he wants to stay but of course doing due diligence and wanting to get the best he can.
Press have been on it because he was the last free agent not to sign so of course he is leaving by their rules.
I'm not fussed either way except to know the kid can play and it be a shame to lose him after all the work we did, but on the other hand we would get a nice draft pick.

Surely if he wanted to stay he would've signed?

He can't activate his right to free agency until October 3rd and in my view that is why he hasn't said yes or no.

[ledge]

Surely if he wanted to stay he would've signed?

He can't activate his right to free agency until October 3rd and in my view that is why he hasn't said yes or no.

Because he is still in talks with the club about the best he can get .. Doesn't mean he is leaving or staying but what it points out is he would rather stay but needs to look after his future.
If he was certain he was leaving why would he bother even talking?

[azabob]

Because he is still in talks with the club about the best he can get .. Doesn't mean he is leaving or staying but what it points out is he would rather stay but needs to look after his future.
If he was certain he was leaving why would he bother even talking?

Who knows why he has re-opened talks? To make other clubs nervous?

We will know soon enough.

[F'scary]

Who knows why he has re-opened talks? To make other clubs nervous?

We will know soon enough.

To make us nervous!!! :D

[bornadog]

Who knows why he has re-opened talks? To make other clubs nervous?

We will know soon enough.

He said all along he would wait till the end of season before reopening talks.

[boydogs]

Always going to get a better deal being the last restricted free agent out there. Trying to start a bidding war

[Bumper Bulldogs]

A mate said today that Geelong are the ones that are chasing Higgins and Frawley. Said also looking a Minson!

I couldn't see how Higgins would push into that side, but thought Minson would be a lock for them.

[bornadog]

A mate said today that Geelong are the ones that are chasing Higgins and Frawley. Said also looking a Minson!

I couldn't see how Higgins would push into that side, but thought Minson would be a lock for them.

Chris Scott said on radio, the only player they are interested in during FA is Frawley.

[ledge]

Minson only signed up again last year I thought.

[bornadog]

Papers lodged by North. We have 72 hours to match the offer, but I doubt we will.

[bornadog]

$400k per year for 4 years - No thank you.

[KT31]

$400k per year for 4 years - No thank you.

A lot of money to pay someone who has an extensive injury history and age against him.
Hope you enjoy the Roo's medical facilities Higgo.

[chef]

Thanks for the memories Higgo.

[EasternWest]

$400k per year for 4 years - No thank you.

With you.

Out of curiosity, what would you be willing to offer him?

[Axe Man]

$400k per year for 4 years - No thank you.

Kangaroos make official offer for Bulldog Higgins (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/roos-file-offer-for-higgins)


It is believed Higgins will join the Roos on a three-year deal that has a trigger clause for a fourth season.

Kangas slightly mitigating their risk with a trigger clause for the fourth year. I wonder if that will negatively affect our compensation? Is it considered a 3 or 4 year contract?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Kangaroos make official offer for Bulldog Higgins (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/roos-file-offer-for-higgins)



Kangas slightly mitigating their risk with a trigger clause for the fourth year. I wonder if that will negatively affect our compensation? Is it considered a 3 or 4 year contract?
surely has to be considered a 4yr

[bornadog]

With you.

Out of curiosity, what would you be willing to offer him?

The $400k isnot far off, its the 4 years that I would be reluctant with. 2 years plus options would have been about right.

[jeemak]

The $400k isnot far off, its the 4 years that I would be reluctant with. 2 years plus options would have been about right.

I think we'd be offering something similar to what you've stated. Higgins is going for security, and good luck to him if he can find it.

[EasternWest]

The $400k isnot far off, its the 4 years that I would be reluctant with. 2 years plus options would have been about right.

Yeah I'm comfortable with what the club has offered him and pleased that they're going to stick with it.

Personally, I'm happy enough to see the back of Higgins. Just never really warmed to him and don't think he deserved the esteem that some help him in.

Got nothing against him though. Even if I desperately wanted him to stay I'd completely understand him taking the offer from North. It's a good deal.

[LostDoggy]

Good luck to Shaun and good luck to the bulldogs.

[Greystache]

2 more years and about $100K more than I'd be offering.

Shaun should take the deal and run.

[Mofra]

2 more years and about $100K more than I'd be offering.

Shaun should take the deal and run.
This. Don't stand in his way, nudge the AFL for Band 2 compo

[WBFC4FFC]

2 more years and about $100K more than I'd be offering.

Shaun should take the deal and run.

He'll try to but will probably get injured in the process!

[Ozza]

2 more years and about $100K more than I'd be offering.

Shaun should take the deal and run.

My thoughts exactly. A guaranteed $1.6mil investment in Higgins, when they won't offer one of their own (Greenwood) a decent contract after he's had a good year - is a bit surprising.

I wonder what role they have in mind for him?

[LostDoggy]

My thoughts exactly. A guaranteed $1.6mil investment in Higgins, when they won't offer one of their own (Greenwood) a decent contract after he's had a good year - is a bit surprising.

I wonder what role they have in mind for him?

Where is it stated they have not offered Greenwood a contract? It may be a reverse case of Higgins, somewhat.

[Ozza]

Where is it stated they have not offered Greenwood a contract? It may be a reverse case of Higgins, somewhat.

I said a 'decent contract'. There has been speculation the last couple of days that North and Greenwood are a long way apart - and that several clubs (primarily Richmond) have made enquiries.

[craigsahibee]

Pick 26 for Higgins. Fair Result.

[bulldogtragic]

Higgins pick 26
Crameri pick 26

One perenally injured and meeked out an inconsistent year. One was a two time club leading goal kicker. Smiling right now.

[jazzadogs]

It's fantastic news, and despite some arguments I'm seeing I think it bodes well for Frawley's compensation.

Surely he won't get much more than 4 years @ 400k, similar age...can't see him being classified two bands higher!

[Remi Moses]

Terrific news .
If you put Shaun on the free market I'd be surprised if you got pick 26

[EasternWest]

Pick 26 for Higgins. Fair Result.

Yep. Happy with that.

[jeemak]

Terrific news .
If you put Shaun on the free market I'd be surprised if you got pick 26

Norf would, considering they're prepared to throw $1.6m over four years at him.

[GVGjr]

With you.

Out of curiosity, what would you be willing to offer him?

I would do 350K for 2 years and a bit less for 3 maybe 1M.

[GVGjr]

Good luck to him. North wanted him more than we did so his stance was the correct one. Getting a 2nd round selection is a very reasonable compensation and I don't think can complain about it.

Thanks Shaun and good luck.

[Remi Moses]

Norf would, considering they're prepared to throw $1.6m over four years at him.

I'm surprised with Shaun's injury history, am I'm glad the club stuck by their digs .
Gee if Greenwood gets tipped out I'd think Norf fans would be angry

[G-Mo77]

This is the first bit of good news we've had over the last couple of weeks. Although this probably means that Melbourne will get a first round pick and push our pick back a spot. Still a good return for Higgins. Disappointed he didn't want to continue here, despite his deficiencies I think he would have played a pretty important role with us over the next couple of years.

Now lets snaffle Greenwood from them. :)

[Doc26]

Although accepting of this outcome for losing Higgins I'm equally not at ease about it.

A player we've put 8 years of development in, touted as a future leader and given leadership responsibilities, a player we've been very patient we've as he's battled through osteitis pubis among other ailments.

It would seem a form of disagreement with the way he was treated or valued this season and he then gets on his bike to explore bettering his lot.

There's been many a player, and better than Higgins, gone before him who could've chased more coin or security but stuck around whether for loyalty to Club and his mates or simply to back himself in and the Club that nurtured him.

Yes we can place some blame on the new environment of free agency but for Higgins, he has taken more from this Club than his return and I feel that the environment should not be solely used as an excuse for him being viewed as he might, that is as a selfish .....

[Remi Moses]

Surely this means the dees get an end of first round for Frawley.

[bulldogtragic]

Although accepting of this outcome for losing Higgins I'm equally not at ease about it.

A player we've put 8 years of development in, touted as a future leader and given leadership responsibilities, a player we've been very patient we've as he's battled through ostiotis pubis among other ailments.

It would seem a form of disagreement with the way he was treated or valued this season and he then gets on his bike to explore bettering his lot.

There's been many a player, and better than Higgins, gone before him who could've chased more coin or security but stuck around whether for loyalty to Club and his mates or simply to back himself in and the Club that nurtured him.

Yes we can place some blame on the new environment of free agency but for Higgins, he has taken more from this Club than his return and feel that the environment should not be used as simply an excuse for him being ultimately seen as a selfish .....

I'm trying not to think of that, as it's not great as you say. At an talking gig recently, Doug Hawkins said something very similar. Obviously more around 'if he leaves then ...' (What you've said). You would've hoped for a little something, you know for the effort, but not.

[F'scary]

woo-hoo pick 26 for the Higg.

[GVGjr]

Although accepting of this outcome for losing Higgins I'm equally not at ease about it.

A player we've put 8 years of development in, touted as a future leader and given leadership responsibilities, a player we've been very patient we've as he's battled through osteitis pubis among other ailments.

It would seem a form of disagreement with the way he was treated or valued this season and he then gets on his bike to explore bettering his lot.

There's been many a player, and better than Higgins, gone before him who could've chased more coin or security but stuck around whether for loyalty to Club and his mates or simply to back himself in and the Club that nurtured him.

Yes we can place some blame on the new environment of free agency but for Higgins, he has taken more from this Club than his return and I feel that the environment should not be solely used as an excuse for him being viewed as he might, that is as a selfish .....

We put an offer in front of Shaun many months back and he chose to put it on hold until the end of the season. He then got a vastly superior offer from North and accepted it. I can see why that could come across as a selfish act but I think many injury prone players would look at the longer term offer and make the same jump.

There are a few reasons why most supporters aren't as unhappy with Shaun as opposed to when Ward left but I guess it comes down to that we believe we have been adequately compensated. Our supporters just don't have the patience to potentially see Higgins slide back with his form next season like Jarrad Grant did this year so a 2nd round pick is looking pretty good at the moment.

[F'scary]

Let's go shopping - would Sam Reid of Sydney for pick 25 or 26 be a good deal for us?

[1eyedog]

Although accepting of this outcome for losing Higgins I'm equally not at ease about it.

A player we've put 8 years of development in, touted as a future leader and given leadership responsibilities, a player we've been very patient we've as he's battled through osteitis pubis among other ailments.

It would seem a form of disagreement with the way he was treated or valued this season and he then gets on his bike to explore bettering his lot.

There's been many a player, and better than Higgins, gone before him who could've chased more coin or security but stuck around whether for loyalty to Club and his mates or simply to back himself in and the Club that nurtured him.

Yes we can place some blame on the new environment of free agency but for Higgins, he has taken more from this Club than his return and I feel that the environment should not be solely used as an excuse for him being viewed as he might, that is as a selfish .....

While there is no question we need players who can use the football well and who understand how the game unfolds something in me tells me that Higgins is not the kind of footballer that meets the Macca mantra of going in hard when it's your turn to go. I guess I'm suggesting Higgins is brittle rather than soft and because of this his natural talent - once so lauded by us supporters has been stifled by cautious football. I'm still not convinced that we tried that hard to retain his services and I see the departure more as an amicable breakup where although we didn't get what we wanted out of the relationship we are at least free of it and can now use our new found pick on exactly the type of player we want.

[Remi Moses]

I think we were more upset because Ward was a better footballer and local product, and future skipper.
Higgins has under performed ( injuries play a big part) and probably won't be the player we all thought .

[SonofScray]

I am glad the Club is finally rid of him to be honest, particularly please we've been compensated adequately as well. I've been a harsh critic of Shaun during his career and his actions this season vindicated my view. We've done very well to get that high a pick for a very selfish, fragile, sponge of a footballer. Lived off credits in the bank from his debut seasons and the anticipation of fans who desperately wanted the annual "this will be Shaun's year" media hype to be true for far too long.

And on that note, I shall leave him alone and pretend he never existed or ever wore the red, white and blue.

[Ghost Dog]

I am glad the Club is finally rid of him to be honest, particularly please we've been compensated adequately as well. I've been a harsh critic of Shaun during his career and his actions this season vindicated my view. We've done very well to get that high a pick for a very selfish, fragile, sponge of a footballer. Lived off credits in the bank from his debut seasons and the anticipation of fans who desperately wanted to the annual "this will be Shaun's year" media hype for far too long.


And on that note, I shall leave him alone and pretend he never existed or ever wore the red, white and blue.

Come on Scray. Every player has weak points and strong points. It's not like Shaun picked us.

Some very very good players have been around for pick 26. I am hopeful! Thanks for the work Missy.

[craigsahibee]

Tom Mitchell and Reid from Sydney for Pick 5, 26 and Tutt?

[GVGjr]

Tom Mitchell and Reid from Sydney for Pick 5, 26 and Tutt?

Mitchell has said he wants to stay up in Sydney

[KT31]

Think it is a good result, little bit of a square up for the Ward compensation.

[F'scary]

Tom Mitchell and Reid from Sydney for Pick 5, 26 and Tutt?

Tutt can go as the steak knives but is Reid really that good?

[Topdog]

Tom Mitchell and Reid from Sydney for Pick 5, 26 and Tutt?

IMO that is paying overs but both are at a good age.

[Twodogs]

Tom Mitchell and Reid from Sydney for Pick 5, 26 and Tutt?

I'm starting to think that we need 5 unless we are trading up to 3.

[Remi Moses]

Come on Scray. Every player has weak points and strong points. It's not like Shaun picked us.

Some very very good players have been around for pick 26. I am hopeful! Thanks for the work Missy.

He makes some good points.
We did have an annual Shaun's having his best pre-season statement

[soupman]

Interesting seeing how excited some North supporters are about his signing, talking about stuff like "did you see that one handed pick up he did whilst fending off a player with the other". Takes me back to a time when Higgins could still be anything and we all thought he was going to be a gun.

I wish him well, I never loved him as a player but he is very talented.

[Twodogs]

I'd be excited if I was a North supporter. They have had their eyes on Higgins for a while.

[Maddog37]

I am happy to see him go. Lacks speed, agility and second efforts. Plays like a 50 year old.

I would be super happy to see him turn it on and become the player he always seemed he could be but I don't see it coming.

[AndrewP6]

I'd be excited if I was a North supporter. They have had their eyes on Higgins for a while.
Couple of workmates are Norf followers, and they're not that excited. Just see him as someone who has potential but largely unfulfilled. They also say he's soft :)

[GVGjr]

Couple of workmates are Norf followers, and they're not that excited. Just see him as someone who has potential but largely unfulfilled. They also say he's soft :)
Ive got the opposite, they are happy to have him

[F'scary]

Norf are drunk on the success of the Dal Santo recruitment.

[Remi Moses]

He lacks urgency for mine. I'd be more inclined to bolster the KP back stocks if I were Norf.
I think Mullet offers just as much, if not more run than Shaun,

[Mantis]

It will be interesting to see where Norf play him.They must have a specific role on mind if they see him as a 4yr player. To me he is someone who is able to play multiple roles, but he doesn't excel in any.. Or hasn't thus far.

[Bulldog4life]

It will be interesting to see where Norf play him.They must have a specific role on mind if they see him as a 4yr player. To me he is someone who is able to play multiple roles, but he doesn't excel in any.. Or hasn't thus far.

Norf are asking the same question.

http://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2014-10-04/higgins-where-does-he-fit

The short answer to the title is: everywhere.

At 26-years-old, Shaun Higgins is in his prime as a footballer and is likely to prove extremely valuable to North Melbourne.

In his 129 games at the Western Bulldogs, the classy utility spent time across half-back, half-forward, on the wing and in the midfield – all positions fans can expect to see him in play in the royal blue and white.

PRESS PLAY above to watch Shaun Higgins highlights | YouTube

When Higgins plays in attack, he would likely have a similar role to a teammate such as Leigh Adams - working up the ground, providing another number around the stoppages, before using his excellent skills to deliver the ball inside 50.

Perhaps his best season was in 2009 playing the half-forward role. Higgins kicked 32 goals, averaged more than 20 disposals a game and earned 11 Brownlow Medal votes.

At various times during 2014, North struggled to provide a genuine threat at ground level in the forward-line. While the introduction of Kayne Turner and Robbie Nahas rectified it to some degree, Higgins’ presence would bring an added dimension in front of goal, while also providing some flexibility.

Higgins could also play as a running defender off the half-back flank. It was where he spent most of his 2014 for the Bulldogs, notching career highs in rebound 50’s and handballs, looking to initiate quick ball movement.

Again the word flexibility comes into the equation when pondering the possibility of Higgins playing in the defensive half. With players like Shaun Atley, Luke McDonald and Aaron Mullett, North has a range of options currently in the half-back position.

However each of Atley, McDonald and Mullett could potentially ‘graduate’ further up the field onto a wing. It would then give North some added outside run around the stoppages, a crucial area of the Kangaroos’ game.

The former Bulldog also brings some valuable finals experience to a side looking for a sustained run of success in September. Higgins has played seven finals and was a valuable contributor in all of them, finding ways to contribute on the scoreboard even when he didn’t collect a high amount of possessions.

Throughout his nine-year career, Higgins has been unable to shake the injury prone tag. While he’s played 129 games, he’s had three seasons (2006, 2008, 2013) where he has played no more than seven games.

Despite that, Higgins has been able to get on the park relatively consistently in recent memory. Excluding 2013, the utility has played at least 17 games in each season since 2009 – hardly the record of a player who is unreliable.

Earlier this week, Higgins’ manager Bruce Kaider appeared on Trade Radio and stated that his client will be ready for Day 1 of pre-season.
More By Ricky Mangidis

.

[EasternWest]

Couple of workmates are Norf followers, and they're not that excited. Just see him as someone who has potential but largely unfulfilled. They also say he's soft :)

I've been a huge critic of Higgins but I've never really thought of him as soft.

[Scorlibo]

Higgins' 2009 season has to be the prototype for North. I think his best is yet to come and for that reason am disappointed to lose him.

[1eyedog]

I've been a huge critic of Higgins but I've never really thought of him as soft.

I don't think he is soft but his injuries have dented confidence in his body which makes him cautious.

[Remi Moses]

All the injuries eventually catch up to a player, and at 26 he may have 1 to 2 decent seasons left.
Don't think he has 4 decent seasons in him, and therefore the clubs made the right call.

[The bulldog tragician]

It's interesting Shaun is always seen as skilled by other clubs. To my mind with each injury his foot skills worsened. There was a game this year where 2 or 3 howlers in the first qtr just about killed the contest and set the tone for the day.

I think it's a good move that he's found a new home, for us, and him. A couple of memories stand out for me: him kicking a monster goal off one step to help us win the NAB cup against the Saints. A terrific, clever first qtr in a PF against Geelong where he was so creative and dangerous.

We'll never know how good he might have been. A very very unlucky player. Good luck Shaun.

[KT31]

It's interesting Shaun is always seen as skilled by other clubs. To my mind with each injury his foot skills worsened. There was a game this year where 2 or 3 howlers in the first qtr just about killed the contest and set the tone for the day.

I think it's a good move that he's found a new home, for us, and him. A couple of memories stand out for me: him kicking a monster goal off one step to help us win the NAB cup against the Saints. A terrific, clever first qtr in a PF against Geelong where he was so creative and dangerous.

We'll never know how good he might have been. A very very unlucky player. Good luck Shaun.

Agree that injuries have taken there toll, but we have not had for years the personal to protect and shepard the ball carrier.
One reason IMO Farren Ray has been a far better player in a Saints team with bigger bodies and protectors than he ever could in a side we have fielded for the last ten years.

[Ozza]

It's interesting Shaun is always seen as skilled by other clubs. To my mind with each injury his foot skills worsened. There was a game this year where 2 or 3 howlers in the first qtr just about killed the contest and set the tone for the day.
I think it's a good move that he's found a new home, for us, and him. A couple of memories stand out for me: him kicking a monster goal off one step to help us win the NAB cup against the Saints. A terrific, clever first qtr in a PF against Geelong where he was so creative and dangerous.

We'll never know how good he might have been. A very very unlucky player. Good luck Shaun.

I think you are referencing the North Melbourne game - later in the season. And if so, you are spot on.

My prediction would be, that as always, Shaun will have a good game early in the season, maybe even 2 - and the general feeling will be that North have a great pick up. And by mid season he will just be plodding along, having very little impact on games. Unfortunately this has been the characteristics of his last few seasons. When his body is fresh, he goes quite well, but my suspicion is that he just isn't durable enough for the grind/rigours of week in week out AFL football, and struggles to perform with niggles.

I also think that Shaun not reaching the heights of what he showed from 2007-2009 again, may be reflective of how much the game has changed in that time. Talented as he is, he isn't suited to the level of two way running and repeat efforts required in today's footy.

[LostDoggy]

If the plan is just to have him in as a link in the quick running of the footy that makes up North's game plan, sure, he fits it beautifully. But, like North itself, come finals time they're going to be facing the same demons Shaun has his whole career. North will not make the GF with this list.

Perfect fit.

[boydogs]

You know you're struggling when you're pointing to what he did over 5 years ago in 2009

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say if Norf lose Greenwood, it's a big fail for me.
Staggered they rate Shaun ahead of Greenwood

[azabob]

Gotta say if Norf lose Greenwood, it's a big fail for me.
Staggered they rate Shaun ahead of Greenwood
Rumour has it, they have.

[BulldogBelle]

Gotta say if Norf lose Greenwood, it's a big fail for me.
Staggered they rate Shaun ahead of Greenwood

Greenwood has asked for trade to the pies.

Well who would you rather Greenwood or Higgins?:rolleyes:

Massive fail by Norf.

[1eyedog]

Gotta say if Norf lose Greenwood, it's a big fail for me.
Staggered they rate Shaun ahead of Greenwood

Greenwood was hopeless 12 months ago and couldn't get a game. He doesn't really have the biscuits in the bank yet having only a good second half to the year. Norf are obviously after some polish rather than another mid and have a heap of players who can do Greenwood's role (Swallow, Zeibel, Cunnington, Adams...) plus the grass is always a bit greener from the inside looking out and I'm sure Higgins looks more attractive to rival clubs than he does to us (obviously). Both players had form this year and I think it's about right that they are rated about the same. Greenwood is certainly no superstar.

[BulldogBelle]

Greenwood was hopeless 12 months ago and couldn't get a game. He doesn't really have the biscuits in the bank yet having only a good second half to the year. Norf are obviously after some polish rather than another mid and have a heap of players who can do Greenwood's role (Swallow, Zeibel, Cunnington, Adams...) plus the grass is always a bit greener from the inside looking out and I'm sure Higgins looks more attractive to rival clubs than he does to us (obviously). Both players had form this year and I think it's about right that they are rated about the same. Greenwood is certainly no superstar.

You are probably right about that.

[Greystache]

Greenwood was hopeless 12 months ago and couldn't get a game. He doesn't really have the biscuits in the bank yet having only a good second half to the year. Norf are obviously after some polish rather than another mid and have a heap of players who can do Greenwood's role (Swallow, Zeibel, Cunnington, Adams...) plus the grass is always a bit greener from the inside looking out and I'm sure Higgins looks more attractive to rival clubs than he does to us (obviously). Both players had form this year and I think it's about right that they are rated about the same. Greenwood is certainly no superstar.

It probably is, but Greenwood came runner up in Norf's best and fairest in a prelim final season, whereas Higgins played reserves at one point in a team that finished 14th!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think most neutrals would take Greenwood over Higgins.

[Topdog]

Greenwood was hopeless 12 months ago and couldn't get a game. He doesn't really have the biscuits in the bank yet having only a good second half to the year. Norf are obviously after some polish rather than another mid and have a heap of players who can do Greenwood's role (Swallow, Zeibel, Cunnington, Adams...) plus the grass is always a bit greener from the inside looking out and I'm sure Higgins looks more attractive to rival clubs than he does to us (obviously). Both players had form this year and I think it's about right that they are rated about the same. Greenwood is certainly no superstar.

Think you have massively underrated him saying he only had a good 2nd half of the season. His entire year was fantastic and played like a star

[Remi Moses]

Greenwood's a better player than Higgins.
Greenwood was arguably Norf's best player this year, and although Shaun was better this year he didn't have the same season.

[1eyedog]

I think most neutrals would take Greenwood over Higgins.

Not North clearly and for good reason. They have no one outside of Thomas to finish the job up forward outside of their talls. Greenwood had a good season but he's unproven and that's probably why it was only Collingwood and us who were interested. We were only interested in him because, well, to put it mildly we seem to be into most available players and Collingwood went hard because they have space and are minus a player with Beams moving out. We may have got Greenwood if Beams stayed.

I'll take your word for it re. Greenwood but I'm not convinced long-term. He's been too inconsistent in the past and he may just have done a Minson c. 2013 this year. Time will tell I suppose. As for Shaun I thought he had a good year and him going back to the seconds surprised me and I suspected it had nothing to do with form at all, rather he wasn't doing what he was asked to do , or doing the 1%ers well enough. Higgins will be very important for North and their immediate needs and they've identified that and made their decision. It's a decision that comes with risk but they obviously feel they can get more out of Shaun than what we did and they may do just that.

[F'scary]

Just a quick report that I have spoken to 3 Norf supporters at work and they are flabbergasted with the size and length of the contract given to Higgins. They felt that our pick 26 compensation is overs.

:D:D:D

[azabob]

Just a quick report that I have spoken to 3 Norf supporters at work and they are flabbergasted with the size and length of the contract given to Higgins. They felt that our pick 26 compensation is overs.

:D:D:D

They do realise that what they offered, is why we got what we got?

[F'scary]

They do realise that what they offered, is why we got what we got?

Exactly! :D:D:D ;)

[jeemak]

I can actually see Shaun kicking 30 goals for North next year, in a half forward and midfield role.

As far as our club is concerned, with Higgins and Gia leaving we are now without the two best finishers we've had for the last four or five years.

Whilst we think we've done well to get a second round pick for Shaun, it's imperative that Dickson stands up and puts in a few good years for us in the true position Shaun should have been playing with us. I think he can do it, but I really hope he becomes an injury free player.

[Remi Moses]

I couldn't give a continental what Shaun does for Norf, nor Brian at Hawthorn.

[jeemak]

I couldn't give a continental what Shaun does for Norf, nor Brian at Hawthorn.

Remi to the power of SICK!

[F'scary]

If anyone needs amusement, just go the Norf BF page and check the relevant threads. There are a lot of commentors who are spewing at the loss of Greenwood and blaming the size of the Higgins deal for him leaving, etc.

:D:D:D

[chef]

With Higgo and Griff being besties do we think the club pretty much letting Shaun walk had an affect on Ryan?