Griff...how long in the midfield?

[always right]

The fact that he is the first player tagged each week suggests that opposition coaches still see Griff as our most dangerous midfielder...and they're right although Libba is not far behind. With the fast tracking of our younger mids and the potential for more to move into the midfield in the next 12 months, how long should Griff remain there?

Griff has changed from an explosive free running midfielder into a bash and crash type, rarely running in free space but typically trying to break free out of traffic under enormous pressure. When was the last time you saw Griff use his trademark side step and swivel and take off towards goal leaving opponents in his wake? It rarely happens nowadays.

At what point do we recognize that the way he plays now could in fact shorten his career as a topliner? Are the back problems he experiences compounded by the heavy tags he cops and the way opposition players use every opportunity to crash into him? Perhaps we should be considering a move to the half backline over the next 12 months or so. It's a position he played successfully in his early days and he would be a great replacement fror Murph should Murph only play another season or so.

Personally I would like to see him play midfield next season and then move into defence as the likes of Bonts, Smith, Hrovat, Dahl, Honeychurch and Macrae spend more time running through the middle. I actually think he could do more damage running of the back flank with his penetrating kicks than he does now. He seems to be more of an accumulator now and his posessions have less impact than they ever have. Not meant to be a criticism...just an observation.

Does anyone else think we should be brave enough to bite the bullet and make the move sooner rather than later?

[Mofra]

Maybe he could rotate off the HB line at times?

He knows how to play there - started his career there - and many teams set up play from the HB line. He would be an absolute star rebounding from defence.
He is our best midfielder though so how much would we lose? I guess he can always be plan B to put him in the middle.

I assume he wants to play in the middle where the action is though, like most AFL footballers.

[bornadog]

He is our best midfielder and only A grader at this stage. We saw in the third quarter when he got going he gave us a chance ( a glimmer). I think he should stay in the midfield another couple of years and as Mofra says can be moved to the HBF just as Cooney has sometimes done.

One thing I have noticed more this year, he is really getting smashed up by the opposition and this has effected his game.

[soupman]

One thing I have noticed more this year, he is really getting smashed up by the opposition and this has effected his game.

My girlfriend commented that unlike the rest of our players when he gets the ball he just runs straight at the opposition and tries to break through them. It's a huge change from the player who used to find space and dodge around opponents.

At the moment he is playing too much like Mitch Hahn for my liking and considering he is already injured it can't be good for him.

[always right]

I get that he is still our best midfielder but is he our most effective midfielder? He seems to have lost some of his breakaway speed and it's been a long time since we've seen one of his long running goals....he seems to be a different player than he used to be and whilst his consistency has improved, he does less of the spectacular nowadays.

I don't think his younger team mates are quite ready just yet for us to move him out of the midfield but could we start transitioning him next year? The obvious thinking is that we should keep him in the midfield for as long as possible. I'm just wondering if we would in fact get more value out of him and maybe for a longer period by moving him back.

[Cyberdoggie]

He is our best midfielder and only A grader at this stage. We saw in the third quarter when he got going he gave us a chance ( a glimmer). I think he should stay in the midfield another couple of years and as Mofra says can be moved to the HBF just as Cooney has sometimes done.

One thing I have noticed more this year, he is really getting smashed up by the opposition and this has effected his game.

I think more teams will follow that trend if the particular player can play off the HBF.
ie first three quarters in the backline then when the game opens up, push him in the middle in the last so his line breaking can be used to more effect.

Hawthorn have done it very well with Burgoyne. Cooney has had some success, it seems to be a good option for the ageing midfielder to have more impact when it counts with today's style of footy.

[Scorlibo]

The efficacy of your plan AR may well depend on how well our young rebounding defenders develop over the next two years. If we remain bereft of options then I could definitely warm to the idea of playing Griffen down back. My instincts at this stage though would be to keep him in the midfield - where I think he has established himself as a top ten player in the competition.

[boydogs]

I was opposed to him moving into the midfield when he was playing off half back, but proven wrong. He's too good not to be in the middle

[Topdog]

If we aren't going to play him through the middle then we should just trade him.

[always right]

If we aren't going to play him through the middle then we should just trade him.

Don't disagree if we thought we would get fair value but do you not rate the importance of attacking half backs? On the basis of your thinking we should have traded Murphy years ago considering his inability to play midfield.

[The Underdog]

Don't disagree if we thought we would get fair value but do you not rate the importance of attacking half backs? On the basis of your thinking we should have traded Murphy years ago considering his inability to play midfield.

I think the point is Griff is one of the best midfielders in the comp. Murph for all if his awesomeness was never that. Personally I think Griff is a more dynamic mid than any of the guys we have coming through and his value there outweighs what he'd give us off half back, where he gets maybe 2/3 of the possessions he has now. He'd likely still cop a hard tag there too. I understand the point about trying to preserve him but I think you rob the team of too much by moving him.

[wimberga]

A mate of mine often says "you want your best players where they can influence the game the most".

For Griff, this is clearly in the midfield for mine. What we would lose by taking him out of there would not be outweighed by what we gain by him playing HBF, regardless of how good he is.

[Mofra]

If we aren't going to play him through the middle then we should just trade him.
Never, ever, ever trade A grade players who show enough loyalty to sign with us for far less than they could get elsewhere (e.g. Griff turning down a bigger offer from Essendon).

Especially if that player is a universally respected and liked captain of the club.

[ratsmac]

Never, ever, ever trade A grade players who show enough loyalty to sign with us for far less than they could get elsewhere (e.g. Griff turning down a bigger offer from Essendon).

Especially if that player is a universally respected and liked captain of the club.

Amen.

[GVGjr]

Bartel has accepted a lesser midfield role and there may come a time that Griffen will need to adapt to a slightly different role. Don't see a problem with it.

[Remi Moses]

I can see Griff playing a different role in the future

[Topdog]

Never, ever, ever trade A grade players who show enough loyalty to sign with us for far less than they could get elsewhere (e.g. Griff turning down a bigger offer from Essendon).

Especially if that player is a universally respected and liked captain of the club.

I'd counter that with never, ever, ever play your A grade midfielders as a half back flanker. We are paying him as an A grade midfielder, we need to use him as one. Would be a waste of our money and part of his career to move him to HBF now.

As for Bartel he accepted that position because he is well and truly finished as an A grade midfielder. Griff is well ahead of current day Bartel.

[always right]

I'd counter that with never, ever, ever play your A grade midfielders as a half back flanker. We are paying him as an A grade midfielder, we need to use him as one. Would be a waste of our money and part of his career to move him to HBF now.

As for Bartel he accepted that position because he is well and truly finished as an A grade midfielder. Griff is well ahead of current day Bartel.

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

[Mantis]

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

[Happy Days]

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.

The timing of this all, after Griffen's best game of the season by far, is really weird. He's a midfielder until it's apparent he's not anymore, at least I would have thought.

BTW Hodge and Deledio are not examples which are pertinent here. Hodge's body necessitated a move to a flank (whilst he is obviously hampered, Griff is not there yet).

As for Deledio, he doesn't have the ability or the defensive side to ever be a full time midfielder; I remember hearing a stat about him one season that showed of all the players in the league who attended a certain number of stoppages, Deledio averaged the absolute lowest clearance share in the league - as if to say, not only is he not a good midfielder, but the absolute worst midfielder of those designated as such.

[always right]

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

Agree...hence the question could he be better utilized out of the backline where he is more likely to find space?

I'm beginning to sound like a zealot!:) I'm just interested in going past the obvious "he's our best midfielder and that's where he should play" argument and discussing whether we could actually get greater benefit (and for longer) if we changed his role.

As I said previously...perhaps not 2015 but thereafter when hopefully our young midfield group is ready to carry the load.

[doggies ftw]

The Luke Hodge example appears to counter your counter argument....as does Brett Deledio to a lesser extent.

I'm not suggesting it should happen now but in 12 months time it may be a more realistic scenario.

One question worth considering is whether Griffen influences matches like he used to. From my perspective he has become more of an accumulator and his disposals are less impactful. Not saying he still isn't an excellent midfielder but he's a very different player to the the one he was several years back. Certainly more consistent but less damaging in my view.
I think people have forgotten his year last year, he was a top 5 player in the comp. Yes he's been down this year for a few reasons but he is still just as damaging as he always was. In 2 maybe 3 years though I can absolutely see him prolonging his career and finishing it off from HB. And he could absolutely be the best HBF in the league and an absolute weapon back there.

[LostDoggy]

Seeing how little influence Libba has had on games when Griffen hasn't been in the side is enough reason to keep Griffen in the middle.

Griffen is our only midfielder who is capable of copping the number 1 tag and still contributing at a very high level.

But the move could be an option a couple of years down the track.

[always right]

I think people have forgotten his year last year, he was a top 5 player in the comp. Yes he's been down this year for a few reasons but he is still just as damaging as he always was. In 2 maybe 3 years though I can absolutely see him prolonging his career and finishing it off from HB. And he could absolutely be the best HBF in the league and an absolute weapon back there.

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

[doggies ftw]

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

I agree he doesn't go on long runs like he used to but yeah I guess that comes down to the game changing, and getting more congested and also the opposition not allowing him too, he's just too good to allow the freedom to do that anymore. What i'm getting at though is I think your basing this too much off this year, where he definitely hasn't been anywhere near as damaging but if you look back to what he was doing only last year, he was absolutely tearing games apart and it was the year in his career where he had done the most damage. Thats what we want from him but for a few reasons this years been disappointing for him (of course most of that out of his control, and some of it my fault for chucking money on him for the brownlow... :rolleyes:). He's shown signs though when he's been fit of getting back to his best but something else keeps bobbing up to keep him down. Next year I expect to see him back to his best through the midfield, and with the rest of the guys stepping up another level too as we'd expect, his output should only get better.

[Topdog]

I guess that's what I'm questioning. In my view he simply isn't as damaging as he once was. Whether that's due to age, injury or the way the game is played, I think he is significantly less damaging with his disposals and his inability to carry the ball like he used to.

No pre season and rushed back from injury does that to you.

I know you dislike the simplicity of the "he's our best mid" argument but for me it is as follows
1) he actually still is our best mid
2) our young players aren't ready yet to take over even if we want to move him back
3) having him in the middle means that our younger guys have a bit more freedom to play with

I'm all for him moving down back when he is 30+ if he needs it but it's a fairly long way off IMO and would hurt the team too much in the meantime.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Many things have contributed to Griff's perceived reduced influence:

1/ Game style - Both from us and in general, less space for players to work in. It's hard to play 'burst' footy when there are huge numbers around the contest.
2/ Age - Has slowed him down a little.
3/ Teams performance - Has had to carry the load.. Our most damaging player and is the 1st one tagged.

Griff and Libba are our two best mid fielders by a mile. When Griff is playing Libba becomes a better player. We do not have sufficient depth in the midfield to contemplate a move for Griffen. There is an urgent need to find another quality midfielder to provide greater depth which is lacking at the moment.