Retirements, trades Out, delistings and the rookie list - 2014

[bornadog]

Starting this thread a little early to get some discussion going.

Overall it is going to depend on how many players do we want to draft/trade in for next year. I think it should be at least 5.

It will be decision time soon for list management and there are a number of players under the pump to keep their spot on the list. In particular, the rookie list is going to be interesting as all four have now been on the list for the longest possible allowed time (I think?)

The following players I believe will be the first to be looked at:

* We know Gia is retiring along with Tom Williams
* Brett Goodes
* Christian Howard
* Daniel Pearce - possible trade?
* Jason Tutt - Could be trade?
* Matthew Fuller - Rookie list?

Rookie list

Who gets promoted to the seniors?

I think Greenwood doesn't have a chance to.
Austin is a maybe as a back up and I think Jong will get a chance.
Redpath has shown he maybe isn't up to AFL standard. He is all heart, but how long do we perservere?

I would transfer Prudden to the rookie list if we wanted to make space for drafting another kid. If there is no one out there then he stays on the list.

Of course there are good players that may be used as trade bait, but we have other threads to discuss those.

Thoughts?

[SlimPickens]

You'll need to add Tom Williams to your list.

[SlimPickens]

Personally I'd do the following changes.

Delisted/Retired
Gia
Williams
Howard
Pearce
Fuller
Goodes
Greenwood
Redpath

Trade/Free Agency
Higgins (I think he'll walk for a longer contract/ more money)
Grant (need to cut ties with this bloke)

Upgrade
Jong
Austin

This gives us 5 or 6 picks at the draft and a full list of rookies of which I expect us to look at adding Jayden Foster and Mitch Jensen to our rookie list and 2 others.

[Bulldog Joe]

Matthew Boyd could be an additional retirement.

He started the year well but seems to have struggled a little more over the last few games. This may be due to instructions, but he doesn't seem to be running as well.

I would expect Redpath to be retained. The reports have been good since his return to VFL and we seem to have made a big effort to continue his development.

Jones could be on the trade table.

[LostDoggy]

Boyd signed an extension about three weeks ago.

[Axe Man]

I would transfer Prudden to the rookie list if we wanted to make space for drafting another kid. If there is no one out there then he stays on the list.

Prudden signed a contract extension late last year that runs to the end of 2015 so I'm not sure that is possible?

[bornadog]

Prudden signed a contract extension late last year that runs to the end of 2015 so I'm not sure that is possible?

Fair enough, I had forgotten that. Hopefully he has a good pre-season and injury free next year as he has plenty of talent.

[Go_Dogs]

Prudden signed a contract extension late last year that runs to the end of 2015 so I'm not sure that is possible?

I think it can still be done, but I'm not sure we would look to do so, if we are going to be able to find 5 senior spots on the list regardless.

I've saw Prudden a few times this year and think he looks a good long term option, just needs to get some continuity with his footy - hopefully he is able to address that over the pre-season (noting it hasn't been entirely soft tissue injuries he's had).


For mine:-

Senior List
- Gia - Retired
- Williams - Retired
- Howard - Delist
- Pearce - Delist/re-rookie
- Goodes - Delist/hopefully retain on staff and VFL
- Higgins - I'm now leaning slightly more towards him going via FA, rather than staying
- Grant - Consider offers

I'd say that will give us 6 senior list spots (7 if both Higgo and Grant leave).

Upgrades from Rookie List
- Redpath
- Jong

Which will leave us with 4 selections for the senior list, 3 live on the assumption we bid for Zaine Cordy.

I tend to think Jong is now more certain to be retained with Clay Smith's second knee injury, as that back up tagger for the stronger, inside types.

Redpath seems like he will get an opportunity after showing good improvements this year. He could be another important piece of the puzzle that falls into place in 2015/2016 and becomes an important cog when we are contending.

Austin unlucky to not be retained as depth, but I feel we need to persist with Roberts and Talia as the priority and free up another list spot.

Fuller and Tutt are 2 others I considered, but Tutt has had some OK games this year and appears to be building nicely in the VFL side, he's still a type we need. Fuller is contracted (as I understand it) and due to an injury interrupted year and that we have been more prepared to spend a development year on players, so is likely to get another year.

This could mean we have the following:-
Pick 6 ish
Pick 26 ish (Zaine?)
Pick 27 ish (Higgins compo)
Pick 45 ish (Zaine?)

In an ideal world we'd be able to get Zaine with our 3rd round selection, meaning we have another 3 picks inside the top 30, and given our recent strike rate in this range, is something I'd be pretty happy with.

It also remains to be seen if we trade for a KPP, if we do, I think that means we either need to move Grant on, or make a tough call on another player as I'd want a minimum 4 new players to the senior list this year, besides upgrades.

[Remi Moses]

Gia ( retired)
Williams ( retired)
Howard ( trade / delist)
Goodes( delist)
Pearce ( delist / Trade)
Greenwood ( delist)
Jong ( trade/ delist )
Higgins( F/A)
Grant ( trade)
Austin ( delist)

[The Doctor]

Gia (retired)
Williams (retired)

Howard (trade/delist)
Goodes (trade/delist)
Pearce (trade/delist)
Tutt (trade/delist)
Fuller (trade/delist)

Greenwood (delist)
Jong (delist)
Redpath (delist)

Austin (upgrade)

Tradebait

Grant

[lemmon]

Gia (retired)
Williams (retired)

Howard (trade/delist)
Goodes (trade/delist)
Pearce (trade/delist)
Tutt (trade/delist)

Greenwood (delist)
Jong (delist)
Redpath (delist)

Austin (upgrade)

Tradebait

Grant

I mostly agree with this. Interesting you've chosen to delist Tutt but retain Fuller, this based purely on Fuller most likely having a two year deal after being drafted?

[The Doctor]

I mostly agree with this. Interesting you've chosen to delist Tutt but retain Fuller, this based purely on Fuller most likely having a two year deal after being drafted?

thanks Lemmon I overlooked Fuller, post amended.

[boydogs]

Retired
Gia
Williams
Goodes

Delisted
Howard
Pearce

Free Agent
Higgins

Promoted
Jong
Austin

Picks
5
23
24
41

[BulldogBelle]

I think that we are all agreed that our aim is to build a team to win a premiership.

We have some marvelous players around whom we can build a team. Here is my listing with their ages as at 1 Jan 2015.
Marcus Bontempelli (19)
Jake Stringer (20)
Jack Macrae (20)
Nathan Hrovat (20)
Lachie Hunter (20)
Clay Smith (21)
Sam Darley (21)
Mitch Wallis (22)
Luke Dahlhaus (22)
Tom Liberatore (22)
Jason Johannisen (22)
Tom Campbell (23)

I have Darley, JJ and Campbell in there.

Then we have a lot of good players to back them up. I would not like to see Higgins go.
Jordan Roughead (24)
Easton Wood (25)
Stewart Crameri (26)
Shaun Higgins (26)
Ryan Griffen (28)
Liam Picken (28)
Adam Cooney (29)
Will Minson (29)
Dale Morris (32)
Robert Murphy (32)

I think that all of the above players are quality enough for a grand final side.

I think that the following players might come good, keep for depth or we are otherwise stuck with.
Mitch Honeychurch (19)
Josh Prudden (20)
Michael Talia (21)
Fletcher Roberts (21)
Tom Young (22)
Jason Tutt (23)
Koby Stevens (23)
Liam Jones (23)
Ayce Cordy (24)
Matthew Boyd (32)

We desperately need a full forward and full back or CHB. We should be trading, selecting like crazy for these 2 players. Maybe Talia, Roberts, Young or Jones may fulfill one of these roles. We should be turning over as many duds and list-cloggers as possible in an attempt to snag a good player.

We should be looking to trade or delist the following.
Daniel Pearce (21)
Alex Greenwood (21)
Lin Jong (21)
Christian Howard (23)
Matthew Fuller (24)
Jack Redpath (24)
Jarrad Grant (25)
Mark Austin (25)
Tory Dickson (27)
Brett Goodes (30)
Tom Williams (28)
Daniel Giansiracusa (32)

A premiership is there if we can just snag the right book-ends. Go all out for the bookends is my strategy. Do whatever we have to do.

Get rid of all the women called Ruth!

[boydogs]

I think that all of the above players are quality enough for a grand final side.

You listed 22 players, yet we are 14th on the ladder


We should be looking to trade or delist the following.
Tory Dickson (27)

Harsh IMO, won our goalkicking last year

[GVGjr]

My gut feel is that we will promote Redpath and give him another 12 months to prove his worth but at the moment I would go with.

Retired
Giansiracusa and Williams

Delist
Howard, Pearce, Goodes, Fuller*, Jong, Greenwood

Rookie Promotion
Austin

This gives us 5 picks and maybe one more if we trade a player or lose Higgins via FA.

I suspect we will acquire a FA so we might only have 4 live picks. We might also re draft Redpath.

*Delist and if he insists on another season then move him to the rookie list.

A number of players I would be happy to explore trading.

[G-Mo77]

Retire
Gia
Williams

Delist
Howard, Young, Fuller, Goodes, Pearce, Greenwood (R), Redpath (R)

Promotions
Jong, Austin

I think we'll lose Higgins as FA and guys like Tutt and Grant could be used as trade bait they stay if no one bites. Wouldn't be surprised Talia gets moved ive heard a few whispers and have a gut feeling he's on the nose. I'd give Pearce a rookie spot as well if he wanted it.

[BulldogBelle]

You listed 22 players, yet we are 14th on the ladder



Harsh IMO, won our goalkicking last year

Harsh and ruthless, but I would not to trade any of our long-serving loyal players.

Those ones in that top 22 are Keepers. The top group are young guns who should all improve. I am looking to the future, I am looking at our players who are good enough for a premiership team. The others to keep would be those who at least provide a very good depth player.

The main point that I would like to make is that we have a big body of very good youngsters who are capable of taking us to a premiership. But, they need the book-ends. The big Key Position forward and back. We should be moving heaven and earth to get those players.

We must turn over our fringe players and try to get those 2 KP's.

[LostDoggy]

What are people's thoughts on Jong. IMO he adds little that we don't already have. His disposal is average at best. A number have suggested promoting him but why? Who's he better than? Who's place can you see him taking?

[bornadog]

What are people's thoughts on Jong. IMO he adds little that we don't already have. His disposal is average at best. A number have suggested promoting him but why? Who's he better than? Who's place can you see him taking?

My gut feel is he will be promoted. He is gutsy, tough and has a great attitude and never stops trying. He lacks some skills but has other skills such as pace which many of our midfielders don't have, he is also the type of player Macca loves.

[Bulldog Joe]

What are people's thoughts on Jong. IMO he adds little that we don't already have. His disposal is average at best. A number have suggested promoting him but why? Who's he better than? Who's place can you see him taking?

From VFL reports Jong has continued to improve. He is competitive and has pace. Not sure what his endurance is like but he does seem capable as a run with type player.

Recent stats indicate he is also getting plenty of ball at VFL level.

He is tall enough and can play back so he adds a few options.
Given his age and limited experience I think he deserves some time.
He is comparable to Matthew Boyd at the same age and that turned out ok.

[BulldogBelle]

What are people's thoughts on Jong. IMO he adds little that we don't already have. His disposal is average at best. A number have suggested promoting him but why? Who's he better than? Who's place can you see him taking?

I think that you are right on the money, he is an average player and we already have a surfeit of his type. He is courageous but has few tricks or special attributes. He will never become an A-grader.

He may very well be retained because he has a good work ethic and attitude. The thought would be that he deserves to be persevered with. Bad thought, you don't keep someone because they deserve it, you keep them based on the club's future needs. Otherwise the list just gets clogged up with also-rans.

[always right]

The line on the Jong improvement graph is definitely showing an upward trajectory. Yes he has deficiencies but you could argue his upside is greater than others on our list who may have reached their ceiling (not a very high ceiling in some cases). I'm a bit on the fence as to whether we should keep him or not but it's simplistic to say he doesn't have attributes we need.

Many people (myself included) said similar things about Daniel Cross in his early years. Cross and Jong appear to have a similar will to succeed.

Do we only keep blokes who have the potential to become A-graders?

[Axe Man]

I suspect we will acquire a FA

Who do you suspect we will lure? The list of possible free agents is pretty short as far as I'm aware:

Possibilities may be:
Frawley - would be a good fit but reportedly asking too much.
Malceski - very good player but will probably be retired by the time we are seriously challenging.
Waite - too old.
Goldsack - not a bad player but not sure he fills any pressing need for us?
Jetta - will be delisted anyway.
O'Keefe - way too old.

The rest are made up of mostly +30 year olds that are either retiring or are going nowhere. I just don't see who we are likely to pickup through free agency this year, especially as it will have the added disadvantage of wiping out the compensation for Higgins if he goes.

[LostDoggy]

Depends if it's a delisted FA or an end-of-contract

[bornadog]

Do we only keep blokes who have the potential to become A-graders?

Many supporters criticise players if they are not getting 25 to 30 touches a game. You need your soldiers who are reliable and can do a job for you. As you say - do we only keep A graders or potential A graders.

[Sedat]

He is comparable to Matthew Boyd at the same age and that turned out ok.
Good comparison, and Jong is definitely quicker. You want continued improvement in your rookie projects and Jong has certainly achieved that in his 3 years on the rookie list, even with a serious injury to contend with. To a lesser extent Redpath has achieved this as well.

Jong's footy smarts and ability to read the play have improved markedly and he is now performing above the standard required at VFL level - I'd be promoting him to the senior list for the 2015 season, and if he establishes himself in the senior team next year, a further 12 month contract extension would be fair.

I'm undecided on Redpath. Can he still continue to improve, and more importantly can this improvement accelerate so that he reaches a consistent acceptable AFL standard after coming from so far back? He is an absolutely beautiful kick and not without some good tools to work with, but he also has some deficiencies to his game that need to be smoothed out.

I think Minson would still have some currency, although less than last year of course. A ruck division of Campbell and Cordy (with occasional support from Jones and Redpath) is suddenly not as scary as it looked 12 months ago. If we were to trade Minson, we would need to bring in another ruckman onto the list as insurance, preferably someone early 20's from state league level who is ready to go as insurance - rookie preferable.

Grant (I'm a fan of his best but we don't see it anywhere near often enough) and Higgins would also command some trade (or free agency) currency. Not against moving either of these two on and using the picks to either stock up on some more young talent via the draft, or use to prise away an under-achieving talent from other clubs - I would prioritise skilful mid sized defenders and fast mids with great endurance

[Remi Moses]

From VFL reports Jong has continued to improve. He is competitive and has pace. Not sure what his endurance is like but he does seem capable as a run with type player.

Recent stats indicate he is also getting plenty of ball at VFL level.

He is tall enough and can play back so he adds a few options.
Given his age and limited experience I think he deserves some time.
He is comparable to Matthew Boyd at the same age and that turned out ok.

Only problem with that is that Boyd's still going to be on the list next year, thus still keeping Jong out of the side.
I take your point, but we have the same type in spades.

[always right]

Only problem with that is that Boyd's still going to be on the list next year, thus still keeping Jong out of the side.
I take your point, but we have the same type in spades.

One more year...is that really such a problem?

[Remi Moses]

One more year...is that really such a problem?

Just could be another season where Lin doesn't play senior football.
We have plenty of hard working, same type player

[bornadog]

Good comparison, and Jong is definitely quicker. You want continued improvement in your rookie projects and Jong has certainly achieved that in his 3 years on the rookie list, even with a serious injury to contend with. To a lesser extent Redpath has achieved this as well.

Jong's footy smarts and ability to read the play have improved markedly and he is now performing above the standard required at VFL level - I'd be promoting him to the senior list for the 2015 season, and if he establishes himself in the senior team next year, a further 12 month contract extension would be fair.

Jong sat at my table for the season launch in the year he was made a rookie. He was a skinny kid, just finished Year 12.
I saw him again this year at the season launch and he is now solid, and has grown several centimetres to be another 190 midfielder with pace.

[BulldogBelle]

The line on the Jong improvement graph is definitely showing an upward trajectory. Yes he has deficiencies but you could argue his upside is greater than others on our list who may have reached their ceiling (not a very high ceiling in some cases). I'm a bit on the fence as to whether we should keep him or not but it's simplistic to say he doesn't have attributes we need.

Many people (myself included) said similar things about Daniel Cross in his early years. Cross and Jong appear to have a similar will to succeed.

Do we only keep blokes who have the potential to become A-graders?

Do we only keep blokes who have the potential to become A-graders?

Oh, we have to be very careful of our selection of words, people get very picky. they lose or just do not get the gist of the argument.

Let me reword it. If you believe that Jong has the potential to become a top line player who will help us win a premiership then keep him. I don't see that he will, I see nothing special in him at all. I foresee he will be no better than a hundred other midfielders who are currently running around suburban leagues.

The Jong graph is going up. At his stage of development he should be showing a lot more talent

The cost of keeping Jong on the list is the chance to recruit another player who may very well turn out to be great. May not turn out to be great, but if that happens you are no worse off.

Its all about options and Opportunity Cost.

[Remi Moses]

This is his 4 the season on the list.
Time to show something

[G-Mo77]

This is his 4 the season on the list.
Time to show something

3 isn't it? He was taken in the 2011 Rookie Draft.

[boydogs]

Those ones in that top 22 are Keepers. The top group are young guns who should all improve. I am looking to the future, I am looking at our players who are good enough for a premiership team. The others to keep would be those who at least provide a very good depth player.

I think we're a long way from saying Darley, JJ, Campbell, Smith, Hunter, Hrovat & Wallis will be in our next flag tilt. Bonts, Stringer, Macrae, Dahlhaus & Libba are fair enough

[soupman]

I think we're a long way from saying Darley, JJ, Campbell, Smith, Hunter, Hrovat & Wallis will be in our next flag tilt. Bonts, Stringer, Macrae, Dahlhaus & Libba are fair enough

I'm not sure about that.

Hrovat I think is definitely in that second group. He has been very impressive when he has played.

Hunter has been inconsistent but has shown himself to be very capable over a number of games.

Wallis has a question mark still because he is so undamaging with his disposal but looks like a good chance of making it.

Smith has shown is very capable in many games, but the two knees raise doubts.

The others need to prove they can perform over a extended period of time.

But I'd certainly be very confident in putting Hrovat and Hunter into that second group.

[Cyberdoggie]

The line on the Jong improvement graph is definitely showing an upward trajectory. Yes he has deficiencies but you could argue his upside is greater than others on our list who may have reached their ceiling (not a very high ceiling in some cases). I'm a bit on the fence as to whether we should keep him or not but it's simplistic to say he doesn't have attributes we need.


I think he's worth keeping.

To say we have other players like him isn't accurate. Jong is by far the most athletic player on our list.
It may look at times like he's lost and has poor skills and that would be because it's true, but although it may not be easy to see he actually is improving consistently since he started.

I believe he is making steady progress and he will continue to look ugly and not confident in his ability until one day it will just click for him. We have seen this happen with the irish players and Mike Pike for example, they take some time to understand where they need to be and to feel confident, and when that occurs all their unique qualities start to appear in their game.


When Lin realises that he's not a liability and demands the ball back, he will be a weapon as he is ferocious and has great line breaking pace that he likes to use, and knows how to find the goals.

As long as he keeps improving we should persist with him.

[Greystache]

Delist/Retire

Gia
Williams
Howard
Tutt
Pearce (re-rookie)
Fuller
Goodes
Greenwood (R)
Austin (R)

Trade/Free Agency

Higgins
Grant

Promote
Jong
Redpath

That's 7 off and 2 on, plus potentially one more via trade or free agency. That would give us 5-6 draft and trade options, plus 3 rookie selections.

[Bulldog4life]

Delist/Retire

Gia
Williams
Howard
Pearce
Goodes
Greenwood (R)
Austin (R)

Trade/Free Agency

Higgins

Promote
Jong
Redpath

The players who have improved deserve to be retained. Namely Tutty, Jong & Redpath. I think Fuller deserves another season as it appears that his shoulder injury has continually affected him this year so if he can get that right who knows. Grant has another season of his contract to fulfill and with a big pre-season behind him and no injuries he might surprise us.

This gives us 4 picks in the draft and 4 in the Rookie draft.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Delist/Retire

Gia
Williams
Howard
Tutt
Pearce (re-rookie)
Fuller
Goodes
Greenwood (R)
Austin (R)

Trade/Free Agency

Higgins
Grant

Promote
Jong
Redpath

That's 7 off and 2 on, plus potentially one more via trade or free agency. That would give us 5-6 draft and trade options, plus 3 rookie selections.

Agree as usual Grey.

Only thing I wouldn't do is re-rookie Pearce. I know he's had his injuries, but I don't think he has any particular attribute that will help him cut it at AFL level. He isn't quick, athletic, highly skilled or an endurance beast - I see him as an OK to good VFL player, so I'd rather look elsewhere.

[Greystache]

Agree as usual Grey.

Only thing I wouldn't do is re-rookie Pearce. I know he's had his injuries, but I don't think he has any particular attribute that will help him cut it at AFL level. He isn't quick, athletic, highly skilled or an endurance beast - I see him as an OK to good VFL player, so I'd rather look elsewhere.

Yeah I'm a bit 50-50 on the Pearce one. I've seen him trying to evolve his game by taking players on off halfback, which I think is a positive, but I have doubts whether he really has the speed or power to effectively do it.

[Sedat]

Can't agree on delisting Austin. Granted I didn't see the Norf game (by all accounts he stunk it up) but he has just about been our best performed tall defender in the last couple of months (that's not saying much to be fair). Just don't think we can afford to weaken the depth of an already weak area of our list. One year contract only for Austin.

[The Pie Man]

Can't agree on delisting Austin. Granted I didn't see the Norf game (by all accounts he stunk it up) but he has just about been our best performed tall defender in the last couple of months (that's not saying much to be fair). Just don't think we can afford to weaken the depth of an already weak area of our list. One year contract only for Austin.

Agree - and he was very bad vs North. Assuming he plays this weekend, he wouldn't want to play as badly again, though I suspect he's closing in on having done enough for a 1 year upgrade.

[Remi Moses]

3 isn't it? He was taken in the 2011 Rookie Draft.

Apology 3rd.

[Remi Moses]

Can't agree on delisting Austin. Granted I didn't see the Norf game (by all accounts he stunk it up) but he has just about been our best performed tall defender in the last couple of months (that's not saying much to be fair). Just don't think we can afford to weaken the depth of an already weak area of our list. One year contract only for Austin.

In hindsight you're right, but the big question is will he improve at 25?
Terrible below his knees, and goes to ground to often. I think a one year deal( keeping the seat warm for a key back in the draft)

[boydogs]

I'm not sure about that.

Hrovat I think is definitely in that second group. He has been very impressive when he has played.

Hunter has been inconsistent but has shown himself to be very capable over a number of games.

Wallis has a question mark still because he is so undamaging with his disposal but looks like a good chance of making it.

Smith has shown is very capable in many games, but the two knees raise doubts.

The others need to prove they can perform over a extended period of time.

But I'd certainly be very confident in putting Hrovat and Hunter into that second group.

Hrovat & Hunter have shown enough to suggest they will be best 22 players in a decent WB side, but in a premiership side is another level. The 22 under 22 squad is a good guide, they're not in the top 45 players under 22 in the AFL. Bonts, Macrae, Libba & Dahlhaus are

[Happy Days]

Can't agree on delisting Austin. Granted I didn't see the Norf game (by all accounts he stunk it up) but he has just about been our best performed tall defender in the last couple of months (that's not saying much to be fair). Just don't think we can afford to weaken the depth of an already weak area of our list. One year contract only for Austin.

I'll honestly believe till I go in the ground that Austin was only the best defender of the last month because Roughead has been terrible and we wouldn't play Talia or Roberts for whatever reason. Worth noting he never took the number one option forward during this time either.

[F'scary]

Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth. I am trying to incorporate considerations of risk and return.

Retired: Williams, Gia = -2. Delist: Howard, Pearce, Goodes, Fuller = -4. = -6 total. That would be enough to seriously refresh without taking any risks.

The first complication comes with rookie promotions.

Jong, Austin & Redpath all have claims to be promoted and maybe a better bet than late draft choices.

For each of these blokes who gets promoted, my take is that another delist/trade/free agent departure has to be found.
We have something like picks 6, 24, 42, 60, 78, 96 before any trades/compensation.

To me, it therefore looks like we need to take a risk or two and attempt to trade 2 or even 3 players with some currency to get more picks inside the top 40. The “some currency” is the problem.

Higgins – there is a lot of talk about free agency second round (25) compensation. That would be one.

I think we have to bite the bullet on 2 other players who will attract a draft pick swap in the 20’s or the 30’s.
That would give us 6 picks below selection 50 (by the time all the compo’s are added in). The late picks could then be used for the 3 rookie promotions.

We have to roll the dice is my conclusion and say goodbye to a couple of favourites or under performing talents. I am thinking two of Grant, Minson, Cooney, Picken, Boyd, Jones.

[azabob]

We have to roll the dice is my conclusion and say goodbye to a couple of favourites or under performing talents. I am thinking two of Grant, Minson, Cooney, Picken, Boyd, Jones.

Apparently we will also father / son Zaine Cordy - so that is another complication.

We can only trade the players you have listed. All are contracted for next season (I am assuming Picken is contracted).

What would you expect in return for any of those players? No one will trade for Boyd.

[anfo27]

Definitely gone
Gia - retired
Williams - retired
Howard - delist or trade to west footscray for a few oranges
Goodes - delist
Pearce - delist
Grenwood - delist

Maybe gone
Higgins - FA
Tutt - possible trade
Dickson - possible trade

Would listen to offers
Minson
Cooney
Picken
Grant

Upgarde
Jong
Austin & Redpath i'd like to retain on the rookie list but both have been there 3 years so not sure what happens with that. Redpath just not sure he offers enough of what we need & Austin is a decent back up but is just horrendous with the ball in hand.

[F'scary]

Apparently we will also father / son Zaine Cordy - so that is another complication.

We can only trade the players you have listed. All are contracted for next season (I am assuming Picken is contracted).

What would you expect in return for any of those players? No one will trade for Boyd.

I wouldn't expect anything in the low 20's for any of them but maybe Minson, Jones or Grant could get around pick 27-30 or Picken about 35. Boyd might attract a team that needs a bit of g&d in the middle like Melbourne or GWS or maybe one of the clubs looking to top up for a shot at the flag and wanting a bit of depth in the same department.

It seems to me that we have to take a chance because I think that inspite of excellent recent recruiting, the rest of the list is such that we are just chugging along as an also ran and have some big holes in the line up that need fixing as soon as possible.

[F'scary]

Definitely gone
Gia - retired
Williams - retired
Howard - delist or trade to west footscray for a few oranges
Goodes - delist
Pearce - delist
Grenwood - delist

Maybe gone
Higgins - FA
Tutt - possible trade
Dickson - possible trade

Would listen to offers
Minson
Cooney
Picken
Grant

Upgarde
Jong
Austin & Redpath i'd like to retain on the rookie list but both have been there 3 years so not sure what happens with that. Redpath just not sure he offers enough of what we need & Austin is a decent back up but is just horrendous with the ball in hand.

anfo, I can't see we would get anything decent for Tutt or Dickson. Your "Would listen to offers" is my "we have to take a chance and a pick 30 for one of those guys might be as good as we can get.

Another idea I have is that we got Hunter cheap under F/S and the reality is that we have a number of players competing for the spots he plays in. He has currency, we could do a real money ball with him and get something around pick 20 and select on a needs basis (e.g. tall marking forward or CHB).

[ledge]

Why would you get rid of hunter? He was the youngest player on a list last year , you aren't serious are you ?

[GVGjr]

Why would you get rid of hunter? He was the youngest player on a list last year , you aren't serious are you ?

Yeah, I don't get it. Father son selection who is very young but making good progress and yet we would shop him around.
As supporters we demand loyalty from our players but some seem to reserve the right to stamp their papers without a good reason in the process.

[F'scary]

Why would you get rid of hunter? He was the youngest player on a list last year , you aren't serious are you ?


Yeah, I don't get it. Father son selection who is very young but making good progress and yet we would shop him around.
As supporters we demand loyalty from our players but some seem to reserve the right to stamp their papers without a good reason in the process.

I didn't think it would be a popular idea but I thought I would put it out there on the plethora basis. We do have quite a number vying for HFF/FP spots

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hunter will be a gun HFF/mid, I'd burn the club down myself if we traded him!

[bornadog]

Hunter will be a gun HFF/mid, I'd burn the club down myself if we traded him!

Exactly.

At a function earlier in the year, Macca said the progression for guys like Hunter, Hrovat was similar to Dahl, ie they play forward at the beginning and slowly transition into the midfield. In the next few years we will need more mids, so we won't be getting rid of players like Hunter.

[Mantis]

Hunter will be a gun HFF/mid, I'd burn the club down myself if we traded him!

He is a long, long way away from being a gun.. He is very much a touch and go prospect to if he will even make the grade little lone becoming a gun.

[boydogs]

He is a long, long way away from being a gun.. He is very much a touch and go prospect to if he will even make the grade little lone becoming a gun.

Agree, he's shown great forward craft and skills but he's very small both height and strength wise and isn't particularly quick. We have a lot of other small forwards on the list he has to compete with as well. He actually reminds me more of Lindsay Thomas or Jamie Elliott small leading forwards than Stephen Milne or Hayden Ballantyne crumbers, you need to be very good to make it in that role when you're lacking size

[Greystache]

He is a long, long way away from being a gun.. He is very much a touch and go prospect to if he will even make the grade little lone becoming a gun.

He's the same age as Jack Martin, who people were describing as the second coming of Dayle Garlett, and Hunter has shown more of the two.

[Mantis]

He's the same age as Jack Martin, who people were describing as the second coming of Dayle Garlett, and Hunter has shown more of the two.

I'm only going on what I've seen of Hunter so far and I see him as a touch and go in making it.. Sure he has some talent, but he has quite a few things in his make-up that look like holding him back.

[ledge]

So your suggesting we trade a kid after his second year when he was the youngest player on an AFL list last year and has managed to play senior football and show some decent ball reading talent and can kick goals as an opportunist ?
Instead of giving him every opportunity we give to any other player who has done a lot worse in their first two years of football.
I'm sorry but I'm stunned at some of the things put forward in forums and that is one of the most unbelievable things I've ever read.

[F'scary]

So your suggesting we trade a kid after his second year when he was the youngest player on an AFL list last year and has managed to play senior football and show some decent ball reading talent and can kick goals as an opportunist ?
Instead of giving him every opportunity we give to any other player who has done a lot worse in their first two years of football.
I'm sorry but I'm stunned at some of the things put forward in forums and that is one of the most unbelievable things I've ever read.

It is called lateral thinking.

[bornadog]

It is called lateral thinking.

There are plenty of other players that are not good enough to give us picks in the draft.

[F'scary]

There are plenty of other players that are not good enough to give us picks in the draft.

Exactly, I think the club has to take a chance and let Higgins go and trade 2 others, with some currency, Jones, Hunter, Wallis, maybe Grant e.g., for picks around 30 and try for needs based recruiting since we have such a dearth of good, reliable key position players. We won't get anything for your Tutts & Dicksons.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm only going on what I've seen of Hunter so far and I see him as a touch and go in making it.. Sure he has some talent, but he has quite a few things in his make-up that look like holding him back.

I'm surprised by this comment. What do you expect Hunter to be doing?

As Greystache said, he's as young as Jack Martin who is being hailed as a modern day God, yet Lachie has done more to date. There's no doubt he has areas he needs to work on and improve, like any young player, but I'm led to believe his attitude is pretty good for such a young kid.

He may not be a behemoth, but I'm not sure he has to be? We have enough bigger bodied players capable of winning their own ball, and I wouldn't say Hunter is terrible at this anyway. He's incredibly agile (in the top bracket), can leap/mark and generally uses the ball well and makes good decisions. He has a high footy IQ which you simply cannot teach.

I'm amazed there would be any critics, particularly considering his output vs age.

[F'scary]

I'm surprised by this comment. What do you expect Hunter to be doing?

As Greystache said, he's as young as Jack Martin who is being hailed as a modern day God, yet Lachie has done more to date. There's no doubt he has areas he needs to work on and improve, like any young player, but I'm led to believe his attitude is pretty good for such a young kid.

He may not be a behemoth, but I'm not sure he has to be? We have enough bigger bodied players capable of winning their own ball, and I wouldn't say Hunter is terrible at this anyway. He's incredibly agile (in the top bracket), can leap/mark and generally uses the ball well and makes good decisions. He has a high footy IQ which you simply cannot teach.

I'm amazed there would be any critics, particularly considering his output vs age.

I'm not a critic, I am just exploring what avenues we have to recruit some decent key position players. It would be a risk but he is one player who hasn't cemented a spot in the first 22 who nevertheless may attract a reasonable draft pick swap. I wouldn't look at anything higher than pick 30.

[boydogs]

I'm amazed there would be any critics, particularly considering his output vs age.

It's not exactly critical to say our pick 51 is worthy of a top 30 pick. We have an over supply of small forwards and needs in other areas, I think it's worth thinking about

[SonofScray]

Was talking about who goes after next week and I can see it looking like this:

Williams
Gia
Higgins
Pearce
Howard

+ turnover the rookie list entirely.

[BulldogBelle]

We desperately need a full forward and full back or CHB. We should be trading, selecting like crazy for these 2 players. Maybe Talia, Roberts, Young or Jones may fulfill one of these roles. We should be turning over as many duds and list-cloggers as possible in an attempt to snag a good player.

After today are there still people who believe that Austin and Jong are wonderful players?

Out of Young, Roberts and Talia in the Footscray side, I think that Young has played the best.

We need to turn over as many duds or potential duds as possible until we find what we need. We should not be keeping players because 'they deserve', rather we should keep players if we need.

We should be looking to trade or delist the following.
Daniel Pearce (21)
Alex Greenwood (21)
Lin Jong (21)
Christian Howard (23)
Matthew Fuller (24)
Jack Redpath (24)
Jarrad Grant (25)
Mark Austin (25)
Tory Dickson (27)
Brett Goodes (30)
Tom Williams (28)
Daniel Giansiracusa (32)

For god's sake don't hang onto list cloggers. It ruins the club.

[F'scary]

We desperately need a full forward and full back or CHB. We should be trading, selecting like crazy for these 2 players. Maybe Talia, Roberts, Young or Jones may fulfill one of these roles. We should be turning over as many duds and list-cloggers as possible in an attempt to snag a good player.

After today are there still people who believe that Austin and Jong are wonderful players?

Out of Young, Roberts and Talia in the Footscray side, I think that Young has played the best.

We need to turn over as many duds or potential duds as possible until we find what we need. We should not be keeping players because 'they deserve', rather we should keep players if we need.

We should be looking to trade or delist the following.
Daniel Pearce (21)
Alex Greenwood (21)
Lin Jong (21)
Christian Howard (23)
Matthew Fuller (24)
Jack Redpath (24)
Jarrad Grant (25)
Mark Austin (25)
Tory Dickson (27)
Brett Goodes (30)
Tom Williams (28)
Daniel Giansiracusa (32)

For god's sake don't hang onto list cloggers. It ruins the club.

like your thinking - out of your list, I think only Grant has any trade potential - so the rest have to be replaced through the draft and the problem is that we only have 3 under pick 50 (ignoring the Higgins issue). There is no magic wand to our situation, it is going to take several years.

[LostDoggy]

Why have all the advocates for Austin gone so quiet? The guy is worse then bad and needs to be removed from WO post haste!

[Remi Moses]

I'm only going on what I've seen of Hunter so far and I see him as a touch and go in making it.. Sure he has some talent, but he has quite a few things in his make-up that look like holding him back.

Like most players his age.

[G-Mo77]

Why have all the advocates for Austin gone so quiet? The guy is worse then bad and needs to be removed from WO post haste!

I'm no advocate at all but IMO he stays because our backline is so fragile. If we can get someone else to help there then yeah, gone.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm no advocate at all but IMO he stays because our backline is so fragile. If we can get someone else to help there then yeah, gone.

Playing him there almost guarantees our backline is fragile. He simply goes to ground to often and he has been in the system a very long time.

[always right]

Would be staggered if Austin was dropped with one game to go in the season as it will achieve absolutely nothing.

He's been given an extended run in the seniors with every opportunity to establish himself in the defensive group. If nothing else McCartney has been able to assess whether Austin has the capacity to be part of our future and most on this board have made their own judgement on that.

Meanwhile Roberts and Talia have remained in the Footscray side performing solidly week after week. Many have been calling for their elevation for a number of weeks and it seems to me that McCartney's refusal to do so reflects a conscious plan for these blokes to develop a cohesive playing partnership with a view to them becoming a key part of our plan for 2015.

Whilst our VFL team having success is not the most important thing for our club, it is nonetheless important in getting a winning culture back into the club. It would therefore make absolutely no sense in my mind to break up Roberts and Talia just as Footscray enters the first week of finals. I will therefore be amazed if Austin is dropped this week.

[Mantis]

I'm surprised by this comment. What do you expect Hunter to be doing?

As Greystache said, he's as young as Jack Martin who is being hailed as a modern day God, yet Lachie has done more to date. There's no doubt he has areas he needs to work on and improve, like any young player, but I'm led to believe his attitude is pretty good for such a young kid.

He may not be a behemoth, but I'm not sure he has to be? We have enough bigger bodied players capable of winning their own ball, and I wouldn't say Hunter is terrible at this anyway. He's incredibly agile (in the top bracket), can leap/mark and generally uses the ball well and makes good decisions. He has a high footy IQ which you simply cannot teach.

I'm amazed there would be any critics, particularly considering his output vs age.

He may be doing all he can given his age, but he still has avery long way to go in my mind to make it.

I'm really concerned by his 'laziness' on the ground, just doesn't seem to have the intensity required to push to contests & pressure the opposition. Whilst he hasn't had enough pre-seasons to build his fitness base I'm of the firm view that he has to have absolutely elite fitness to be able to have a long term future in the game given that leg speed isn't a strength.. I'm not sure he will be able to push himself hard enough to get to the fitness level I think he requires, but others are better positioned to answer that one.

[Remi Moses]

Little bit early to judge to be honest.
He'll be better when we're a better team, but like quite a lot of young players he needs to get fitter and show more intensity.

[bornadog]

This is my new list following on from the performance of players over the last few weeks:

Retired
Gia, Williams - and add Boyd

Delist

Howard
Goodes
Pearce
Fuller
Young

If there are good enough players around to recruit then consider letting Prudden and Tutt go. Also depends if Higgins goes.

Delisted Rookies
Austin
Greenwood

Upgrade

Jong
Redpath

[always right]

This is my new list following on from the performance of players over the last few weeks:

Retired
Gia, Williams - and add Boyd

Delist

Howard
Goodes
Pearce
Fuller
Young

If there are good enough players around to recruit then consider letting Prudden and Tutt go. Also depends if Higgins goes.

Rookies
Austin
Greenwood

Upgrade

Jong
Redpath

Are you saying you would keep Austin and Greenwood as rookies?

Not sure you have this option with Greenwood and I think Austin's last two games have probably cost him any chance of being retained.

[Greystache]

Are you saying you would keep Austin and Greenwood as rookies?

Not sure you have this option with Greenwood and I think Austin's last two games have probably cost him any chance of being retained.

Given this is his list of players to be delisted I'm not sure how you could interpret it as players to be kept.

[always right]

Given this is his list of players to be delisted I'm not sure how you could interpret it as players to be kept.

Humour me

[ledge]

Problem with delisting a lot of players is once you get lower in the draft you are picking players that might be worse.
At some stage in your delisting you need to look at what's around and if its an improvement.
Basically when your rebuilding you keep some "list cloggers" on your list until you can delist them the next year for high draft picks, it's a slow and hard process, but if you want a great squad and not a middle if the range club it's how you go about.
Father/ sons though can speed up the process, so can some diamonds in the rough, eg honey church at pick 60,if your lucky.

[G-Mo77]

Problem with delisting a lot of players is once you get lower in the draft you are picking players that might be worse.
At some stage in your delisting you need to look at what's around and if its an improvement.
Basically when your rebuilding you keep some "list cloggers" on your list until you can delist them the next year for high draft picks, it's a slow and hard process, but if you want a great squad and not a middle if the range club it's how you go about.
Father/ sons though can speed up the process, so can some diamonds in the rough, eg honey church at pick 60,if your lucky.

That's fair. But if we free up spots it also gives us a lot of flexibility on players through trade or via free agency. We've been restricted by our stubbornness to move a player on. Everyone knew Howard wasn't going to make it, everyone. That spot could have been another rookie selection. Speaking of...our rookie listed players have all been given far too long as well. No selections in the rookie draft last season is a big strike against IMO.

[bornadog]

Are you saying you would keep Austin and Greenwood as rookies?

Not sure you have this option with Greenwood and I think Austin's last two games have probably cost him any chance of being retained.


Given this is his list of players to be delisted I'm not sure how you could interpret it as players to be kept.

Correct delists. Sorry didn't make it clear.

[bornadog]

Problem with delisting a lot of players is once you get lower in the draft you are picking players that might be worse.
At some stage in your delisting you need to look at what's around and if its an improvement.
Basically when your rebuilding you keep some "list cloggers" on your list until you can delist them the next year for high draft picks, it's a slow and hard process, but if you want a great squad and not a middle if the range club it's how you go about.
Father/ sons though can speed up the process, so can some diamonds in the rough, eg honey church at pick 60,if your lucky.

I have 8 delisted/retired, two upgrades giving us 6 picks. With Father/son, that is only 5 picks. Could be 4 drafted and one trade???

We need to get rid of the players that are not contributing or are not in our plans.

[KT31]

That's fair. But if we free up spots it also gives us a lot of flexibility on players through trade or via free agency. We've been restricted by our stubbornness to move a player on. Everyone knew Howard wasn't going to make it, everyone. That spot could have been another rookie selection. Speaking of...our rookie listed players have all been given far too long as well. No selections in the rookie draft last season is a big strike against IMO.
Agree, we have never been ones to cut our losses, instead of delisting or offering players up for trade we seem to have the idea that a player will magically improve and all will be well.
Howard is a fine example and so too is the possible Everitt / Walker trade a few years ago.
Well its been 60 bloody years and all is not well.

[ledge]

Father/son would be two players I would imagine in Cordy and Foster.. I'm not sure on the contracts of players and if we can pay them out or they can be traded.

[bornadog]

Father/son would be two players I would imagine in Cordy and Foster.. I'm not sure on the contracts of players and if we can pay them out or they can be traded.

There you go, I haven't delisted enough players.:D

[ledge]

There you go, I haven't delisted enough players.:D

It depends how deep the draft is.

[BulldogBelle]

Hunter will be a gun HFF/mid, I'd burn the club down myself if we traded him!

I'd bring the matches.

[BulldogBelle]

Would be staggered if Austin was dropped with one game to go in the season as it will achieve absolutely nothing.

He's been given an extended run in the seniors with every opportunity to establish himself in the defensive group. If nothing else McCartney has been able to assess whether Austin has the capacity to be part of our future and most on this board have made their own judgement on that.

Meanwhile Roberts and Talia have remained in the Footscray side performing solidly week after week. Many have been calling for their elevation for a number of weeks and it seems to me that McCartney's refusal to do so reflects a conscious plan for these blokes to develop a cohesive playing partnership with a view to them becoming a key part of our plan for 2015.

Whilst our VFL team having success is not the most important thing for our club, it is nonetheless important in getting a winning culture back into the club. It would therefore make absolutely no sense in my mind to break up Roberts and Talia just as Footscray enters the first week of finals. I will therefore be amazed if Austin is dropped this week.

If anybody other than Austen played last Sunday we probably would have won. He was subbed out at three-quarter time as it was realised that he was uselss. Austen has been a dud since we got him. He gives zero run out of the backline, has no pace, can't mind his man, falls over at the slightest contest, punches the ball back into danger spots. He has no football nous. It should have been assessed years ago that he was a dud.

Who knows what McCartney has in mind for Talia. The only theory that makes sense at the moment is that McCartnry is involved in some compromising photos with Talia and that Austen has them.

[F'scary]

Just saw that Brisbane has already delisted 4 senior listers and 3 rookies. StK has delisted Jones and Gwilt.

Don't waste time, Macca. Do it while they are on the end of season trip - simple text message will do.

[bornadog]

Just saw that Brisbane has already delisted 4 senior listers and 3 rookies. StK has delisted Jones and Gwilt.

Don't waste time, Macca. Do it while they are on the end of season trip - simple text message will do.

How about wait till VFL has been completed?

[F'scary]

How about wait till VFL has been completed?

Good point.

[1eyedog]

If anybody other than Austen played last Sunday we probably would have won. He was subbed out at three-quarter time as it was realised that he was uselss. Austen has been a dud since we got him. He gives zero run out of the backline, has no pace, can't mind his man, falls over at the slightest contest, punches the ball back into danger spots. He has no football nous. It should have been assessed years ago that he was a dud.

Who knows what McCartney has in mind for Talia. The only theory that makes sense at the moment is that McCartnry is involved in some compromising photos with Talia and that Austen has them.

To be fair to Austin Talia has been treading water a bit at VFL level. He's had good games but so does Austin when he is dropped.

[Bulldog Joe]

Having been at the VFL final, I would be pretty keen for us to retain Tutt and upgrade Jong.

With Redpath, I will be content for him to go, but won't be upset if he is upgraded for a 1 year contract.

Greenwood looks ok, but brings nothing that we need.

My delistings
Gia, Williams, Boyd all retired
Howard, Pearce, Fuller, Goodes from main list
Austin, Greenwood from Rookies

Other movement depends on trades, free agency.
If we need a main list for Foster then Redpath makes way, but he could be on 1 yr if Foster is rookied.

Leaves 4 draft spots plus Jong (upgraded) and Cordy (F/S) plus Redpath or Foster on main list and 3 rookie picks available.

This will give 8 new faces to the list.

[Throughandthrough]

If anybody other than Austen played last Sunday we probably would have won. He was subbed out at three-quarter time as it was realised that he was uselss. Austen has been a dud since we got him. He gives zero run out of the backline, has no pace, can't mind his man, falls over at the slightest contest, punches the ball back into danger spots. He has no football nous. It should have been assessed years ago that he was a dud.

.


Any relation to Austin?

[lemmon]

Just saw that Brisbane has already delisted 4 senior listers and 3 rookies. StK has delisted Jones and Gwilt.

Don't waste time, Macca. Do it while they are on the end of season trip - simple text message will do.

That's the right way to run a professional organisation, end careers and life long dreams with a text.

[wb_age]

That's the right way to run a professional organisation, end careers and life long dreams with a text.
I was at the WO today and the players were filing in one or two at a time for their review/exit interviews.

We should have an update soon it that's anything to go by.

[lemmon]

I was at the WO today and the players were filing in one or two at a time for their review/exit interviews.

We should have an update soon it that's anything to go by.

I know GWS were having their exit interviews today also. As a BAD said I can't imagine we'd hear much until after VFL finals time unless it's someone like Boyd and we're keen to make an announcement before tomorrows BnF

[Remi Moses]

How about wait till VFL has been completed?

There were players who played at Willy last years who'd been delisted.

[stefoid]

I'd bring the matches.


Ill bring the kero and the marshmallows

[LostDoggy]

Who knows what McCartney has in mind for Talia. The only theory that makes sense at the moment is that McCartnry is involved in some compromising photos with Talia and that Austen has them.

Take this with a grain of salt, I was assigned an engineering graduate within my work team, Melbourne based lad who went to school with Daniel Talia, close family friends. Long story short, Jack Talia (Daniel and Michael’s father) was talking with his Dad, seems the relationship between McCartney and Talia is on extensively on the nose, massive personality clash stemming from Michaels lack of discipline, main reason he has played the year within the VFL.

Im all for keeping Talia, I think he is developing nicely however.........

If we could secure Jeremy McGovern from WCE (say 2nd round pick compo), could we use Talia as currency to trade up our first round pick. I've watched McGovern play a number of games, excellent mark, both contested and intercept, able to play both ends, reads the play well, behind WCE strong KPF and KPD stocks. Id be very interested in him.

IMO all of the Saints, Melb, GWS would love a KPD such as Talia, he has some currency.

Tying in a few trades / movements, and very pie in the sky :).... I'd like to see....

- Pick 26 to West Coast for McGovern (CHB).

- Casboult > PSD with $500k price tag (2 year contract) – small term financial pain to secure Casboult for free, we can revise his contract value/length after 2 years dependent on his performance.

- Pick 5 and Talia to GWS for Pick 3 and O’Rourke.

- Use Pick 3 to secure Wright

[GVGjr]

I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe we would get a compo pick for Higgins if we were to secure an out of contract player like Casboult.

If anyone can confirm or reject that statement then please let me know.

[chef]

I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe we would get a compo pick for Higgins if we were to secure an out of contract player like Casboult.

If anyone can confirm or reject that statement then please let me know.

If Casboult was taken in the PSD(November) and Higgins was lost during the FA window before tradeweek(early October), then we would get compo and Levi for nothing?

[Remi Moses]

McGovern looked good as a forward.

[LostDoggy]

McGovern looked good as a forward.

He has, both forward and defence. My slight concern is he was playing as a mismatched third tall at both ends. Not sure how he would go taking a best defender or best forward.

[azabob]

McGovern looked good as a forward.

He does. W/C were playing him down back during the year also.

Concern is he is also a tad lazy. Came back to do pre-season very, very overweight if I recall correctly.

[F'scary]

That's the right way to run a professional organisation, end careers and life long dreams with a text.

It's the trend.

[Bulldog4life]

Take this with a grain of salt, I was assigned an engineering graduate within my work team, Melbourne based lad who went to school with Daniel Talia, close family friends. Long story short, Jack Talia (Daniel and Michael’s father) was talking with his Dad, seems the relationship between McCartney and Talia is on extensively on the nose, massive personality clash stemming from Michaels lack of discipline, main reason he has played the year within the VFL.

Im all for keeping Talia, I think he is developing nicely however.........

If we could secure Jeremy McGovern from WCE (say 2nd round pick compo), could we use Talia as currency to trade up our first round pick. I've watched McGovern play a number of games, excellent mark, both contested and intercept, able to play both ends, reads the play well, behind WCE strong KPF and KPD stocks. Id be very interested in him.

IMO all of the Saints, Melb, GWS would love a KPD such as Talia, he has some currency.

Tying in a few trades / movements, and very pie in the sky :).... I'd like to see....

- Pick 26 to West Coast for McGovern (CHB).

- Casboult > PSD with $500k price tag (2 year contract) – small term financial pain to secure Casboult for free, we can revise his contract value/length after 2 years dependent on his performance.

- Pick 5 and Talia to GWS for Pick 3 and O’Rourke.

- Use Pick 3 to secure Wright

I like McGovern as I mentioned on another thread. Seen him in just about all his games. A great mark. Can play forward or back.

[GVGjr]

If Casboult was taken in the PSD(November) and Higgins was lost during the FA window before tradeweek(early October), then we would get compo and Levi for nothing?

I don't know but it's risky for the player.

I'd want any FA to do as much training with us as possible and prefer not to have them waiting until December.

[Rocco Jones]

I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe we would get a compo pick for Higgins if we were to secure an out of contract player like Casboult.

If anyone can confirm or reject that statement then please let me know.

It affects and potentially eliminates the compo pick.

If you both lose and gain a FA, you only get compo if they rate the player you lose more. You get what they see as overall loss. For example.

LOSE- player worth round 2
GAIN- player worth round 3

I guess you would get round 4 or whatever they come up with.

I remember it resulting in Port Power wanting to trade for Monfries rather than just get him as a FA.

[Greystache]

Casboult isn't a free agent. We have to either trade or draft him, either way free agency doesn't come into it.

[boydogs]

McGovern lead the league in contested marks per game this year, would be a great get but can't see him being given up lightly

[westdog54]

I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe we would get a compo pick for Higgins if we were to secure an out of contract player like Casboult.

If anyone can confirm or reject that statement then please let me know.


Casboult isn't a free agent. We have to either trade or draft him, either way free agency doesn't come into it.

This.

Once the Restricted/Unrestricted Free Agent process is completed, the AFL will decide on compensation for affected clubs. Once that is done clubs can pick up a delisted free agent prior to the draft, then again prior to the PSD/Rookie Draft.

There are 3 list lodgement dates: 13/10, 13/11 and 5/12, which is 2 days after the PSD.

[GVGjr]

Casboult isn't a free agent. We have to either trade or draft him, either way free agency doesn't come into it.

Thanks, I missed that point

[GVGjr]

McGovern lead the league in contested marks per game this year, would be a great get but can't see him being given up lightly

Same here. WC would move a bit to keep him.

[Bulldog4life]

McGovern signed with West Coast for two years in June 2014.

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2014-06-30/mcgovern-resigns

[LostDoggy]

Would 26 get it done? We have a pretty good trading relationship with WCE

[GVGjr]

Would 26 get it done? We have a pretty good trading relationship with WCE

I really don't think it's an option.

[Cyberdoggie]

Casboult isn't a free agent. We have to either trade or draft him, either way free agency doesn't come into it.

I believe he also grew up a Carlton supporter, unless we make him an offer he can't refuse you would think he would stay.

[Hot_Doggies]

McGovern signed with West Coast for two years in June 2014.

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2014-06-30/mcgovern-resigns

-Why would he leave his home state?

-Father son

-Wouldn't pass McCartney's good citizen policy

-Eagles wouldn't let him go

[LostDoggy]

To be the first choice CHB, better pay, most importantly....... to join the best team ever!!!!! :D
A long shot I know.