AFL at the Whitten Oval

[soupman]

Seeing the success of one game and its crowd yesterday, and the opposite in the other game, I was thinking is there anything stopping us playing an AFL game at Whitten Oval next year?

Yesterday we played GWS at Etihad Stadium, with a capacity of over 50,000, and had less than 15,000 people there, about 25% of capacity. It looked, felt and was empty, largely had no atmosphere, and even when it was first fixtured you knew it was not going to attract anybody but the keenest of Bulldogs supporters or Gia lovers.

So my proposal is we play GWS at Whitten Oval next year in the battle of the West, in the West, for the West.

We talked up yesterdays final as having a capacity of 10,000. The Western Bulldogs playing there would result in a sell out. We had 6,000 come watch the reserves, the return of the seniors would fill it up in no time.

The questions are obvious:

Would the cost be prohibitive?

Do too many people miss out?

Would the AFL allow it?

I heard that to set up yesterdays match it cost the club $50,000. With 6,000 people there yesterday at $15 a ticket they still would have made $40,000 theoretically. With an AFL match, at capacity, at $25 a ticket the club would be looking at a profit of over $150,000 even if they had to spend a bit more to bring the facilities up to AFL standard (although I'm not sure how memberships affect this revenue stream).

Yes, 4,750 people do miss out from yesterday, but is that a bad thing? We would actually have a match that people have to fight to attend, and my proposal would be to make it a membership incentive. Put 9,000 tickets on sale to members only on a first in best dressed policy (although it could be a social club incentive). Automatically it makes being a member more attractive and more valuable, and promotes a bit of exclusivity to the match. The remaining 1,000 tickets get sold to GWS and the whoever else the AFL sells them to, with whatevers left over going back into the members pool. If there were any tickets left after the members buy theirs (doubtful) they go on general sale.

The biggest issue is would the AFL allow it? ATM playing at Etihad is just as much about paying it off for them as any home ground advantage for us. But currently our GWS games in Melbourne are embarassing to attend or view on TV, and a packed out game no matter the crowd is surely better for the games precious image than an empty world class facility.

The benefits would be many for us though:
-An actual real home ground advantage
-A game in our heartland
-Something which could bring some disenchated supporters back into the fold, and even provide incentive for them to get a membership
-Incentive for people to get memberships, and possibly even upgrade them
-An atmosphere and buzz at one of our home games
-More revenue from food outlets at the ground
-Gives our fans a comnnection to the club and the old days ie. standing on the boundary, right next to the players, kick to kick on the ground etc.

We are a small club thats crying out for a special game to try and generate interest. Good Friday is a 50-50 proposition at best, and even then it is questionable if we would actually get a decent crowd on a long weekend.

A sell out game at Whitten oval, as the annual battle of the West, could be our miniature ANZAC day style clash. It would sell out everytime, be the highlight of our members calender and might even just create a bit of interest in the Western Bulldogs vs GWS clash. Who knows, it might even get us taken out of a Sunday twilight slot, and that can only be a good thing.

[bornadog]

All sounds good, but the truth is its more complicated than it looks.

1. The ground is a million miles away from AFL standard. The facilities are just not there for AFL games.
2. Need to consider members who reserve seats, Coterie groups and functions and rooms, corporate boxes etc.

Peter Gordon said last week we will make more money playing VFL games at WO, than we will at Docklands next year. Therein lies the problem and that is what we should be trying to resolve.

One thing Peter also mentioned there is a possibility of an NAB Cup game being played next year at WO.

[Mofra]

We've got a contract at Etihad and as noted by BAD there would be a lot of upgrading required to get WO to AFL standard.
I'd love it to happen but it wont.

[bulldogtragic]

I asked Cam Rose many years ago, he said the AFL requirements could never be met as well as the issues BAD raises. If you want WO you might need to follow Footscray a little closer.

[ledge]

And car parking just isn't there .. I am a lover of the Whitten oval, but sadly AFL games are finished there, but the positive is VFL games you can have a kick on the ground, mix with the players, it's old school real football and the umpiring is so much better, it's how football should be... Maybe the club can have a VFL membership as well as an AFL membership, or an extra $20 on your AFL membership, the club would make a killing and it becomes a more homely club.

[Murphy'sLore]

I would love this to happen, but it sounds as if it's going to be just too hard.

We went to both games yesterday and the contrast could not have been more stark (not just the result). There was more atmosphere at WO with 6,000 people than at Etihad with more than twice that many. Docklands just felt completely dead, until the fightback of the 3rd quarter when the crowd fired up. You could hear individual sledges echoing across the stadium, otherwise: crickets. It's such a flat experience, and no amount of artificial pumping up with music, competitions, blaring announcements etc can alter that.

If we play 10 games at WO next year, I can see us attending more VFL games than AFL. I know where I would rather take my kids on a Sunday afternoon, and I think I'd be prepared to pay extra for it.

[Twodogs]

It depends on what the contract with Etihad management says too. They may not be keen for us have a bargaining chip.

[Webby]

I think it's impossible for AFL as there's a myriad of contractual obligations for sponsors, corporates, coteries and premium ticket holders. It'd be nice, but can't happen.

That aside - just looking around the ground yesterday, the temporary fencing along Gordon And Cross streets fit quite neatly. By virtue of the crowd figures and the buzz/boost that the games have brought, surely the Maribyrnong CC could be influenced to kick in $500k or so to install permanent fencing (with plenty of gates to allow public access at non game times) and some permanent toilet facilities?

This year has been a bit of a phenomenon. Hopefully the council are enthused. It's really brought some atmosphere and buzz back to the suburb.

[Greystache]

It depends on what the contract with Etihad management says too. They may not be keen for us have a bargaining chip.

Without having seen the contract directly, my understanding is we have a contract that specifies the financial outcomes for games we play at Etihad (you know the one that ensures we take it in the arse whenever we play there), but it's the AFL that has the contractual obligation to host a specific number of games there. So in essence if we had a suitable alternative we could simply walk away and play there, and it would be the AFL that is in danger of a potential breach of contract for failing to meet its commitments.

That being the case you can say with absolute certainty the AFL will make it virtually impossible for us to play anywhere else.

[ledge]

I believe it's guaranteed 8 games next year at WO but we are pushing for 9, and if all things go to plan I will be at every one of them.

[Sedat]

Without having seen the contract directly, my understanding is we have a contract that specifies the financial outcomes for games we play at Etihad (you know the one that ensures we take it in the arse whenever we play there), but it's the AFL that has the contractual obligation to host a specific number of games there. So in essence if we had a suitable alternative we could simply walk away and play there, and it would be the AFL that is in danger of a potential breach of contract for failing to meet its commitments.

That being the case you can say with absolute certainty the AFL will make it virtually impossible for us to play anywhere else.
Sadly, this.

[Twodogs]

I think it's impossible for AFL as there's a myriad of contractual obligations for sponsors, corporates, coteries and premium ticket holders. It'd be nice, but can't happen.

That aside - just looking around the ground yesterday, the temporary fencing along Gordon And Cross streets fit quite neatly. By virtue of the crowd figures and the buzz/boost that the games have brought, surely the Maribyrnong CC could be influenced to kick in $500k or so to install permanent fencing (with plenty of gates to allow public access at non game times) and some permanent toilet facilities?

This year has been a bit of a phenomenon. Hopefully the council are enthused. It's really brought some atmosphere and buzz back to the suburb.

Don't hold me to it but I'm pretty sure that one of the conditions we got the redevelopment money was that WO would remain "unenclosed public access land" I don't think you could put a permanent fence around it.

[bulldogtragic]

Now I think of it. The WO toilets opposite the cafe have 2 cubicles and 2 toilet urinals, and one urinal was out of action yesterday. Long, long, long wait trying to pay back the Carlton Draughts at the end of the game. Not sure the AFL would allow their brand to be tainted by long toilet waits with angry Essendon supporters calling talkback to complain about how povo we are.....

[1eyedog]

Now I think of it. The WO toilets opposite the cafe have 2 cubicles and 2 toilet urinals, and one urinal was out of action yesterday. Long, long, long wait trying to pay back the Carlton Draughts at the end of the game. Not sure the AFL would allow their brand to be tainted by long toilet waits with angry Essendon supporters calling talkback to complain about how povo we are.....

The OP was talking about us v GWS once a year. It would require a far greater expenditure than 500k to get it up and running and aside from all the contractual arrangements with Etihad / the AFL would it be worth it? I also wonder how many we'll get to VFL matches when the seniors start winning games / playing finals - we may drop off a fair bit I reckon.

Still, I had a Tiger mate come along with me and my son to both games yesterday and he had an absolute blast at the VFL game.

[The Adelaide Connection]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-01/great-day-for-geelong-as-latest-simonds-stadium-upgrade-gets-green-light


The next stage of the Simonds stadium upgrade has been rubber stamped which will take the total coin injected to $90 million. Not that it will happen, but would $90 million be enough to get Whitten Oval to the level it would need to be to be a boutique AFL venue?

[Webby]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-01/great-day-for-geelong-as-latest-simonds-stadium-upgrade-gets-green-light


The next stage of the Simonds stadium upgrade has been rubber stamped which will take the total coin injected to $90 million. Not that it will happen, but would $90 million be enough to get Whitten Oval to the level it would need to be to be a boutique AFL venue?

With the crowds Geelong will be pulling over the next three years, it's perfect timing for the works to commence. Their numbers really do swell up and contract from year to year - depending on their performances.

It just shows you that people find other things to do on the weekend when their team is no good. Makes one think that, with the young team we've now assembled, we could really build some big crowds over the next 5-6 years.

I love WO and I love that PG is astutely fighting our corner. I also love that life is being breathed into the place as a result of our VFL side and the womens' AFL. However I'm pretty happy with Etihad (particularly after the dud deal has expired and the AFL take ownership) and our foray into Ballarat.

I do recall being depressed walking into Etihad for the first Sht Kilda game (actually I was pretty depressed walking out!!) due to us having to leave the bright Autumn sunshine to enter a cavern in the prime of day. However I've found that the opposite has been the case of windy, wet and cold days like Saturday.

My mate's Eiropean girlfriend has come along to two games. One was at the G and the other at Etihad. All she said after the second game at Etihad, was how much better she thought Etihad was to see the game.

And, it is at the end of Footscray Road.

[westdog54]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-01/great-day-for-geelong-as-latest-simonds-stadium-upgrade-gets-green-light


The next stage of the Simonds stadium upgrade has been rubber stamped which will take the total coin injected to $90 million. Not that it will happen, but would $90 million be enough to get Whitten Oval to the level it would need to be to be a boutique AFL venue?

I wouldn't have thought so. The works required, both on the stadium and surrounds, would be extensive. I would have thought it would extend far higher than that.

[westdog54]

With the crowds Geelong will be pulling over the next three years, it's perfect timing for the works to commence. Their numbers really do swell up and contract from year to year - depending on their performances.

It just shows you that people find other things to do on the weekend when their team is no good. Makes one think that, with the young team we've now assembled, we could really build some big crowds over the next 5-6 years.

I love WO and I love that PG is astutely fighting our corner. I also love that life is being breathed into the place as a result of our VFL side and the womens' AFL. However I'm pretty happy with Etihad (particularly after the dud deal has expired and the AFL take ownership) and our foray into Ballarat.

I do recall being depressed walking into Etihad for the first Sht Kilda game (actually I was pretty depressed walking out!!) due to us having to leave the bright Autumn sunshine to enter a cavern in the prime of day. However I've found that the opposite has been the case of windy, wet and cold days like Saturday.

My mate's Eiropean girlfriend has come along to two games. One was at the G and the other at Etihad. All she said after the second game at Etihad, was how much better she thought Etihad was to see the game.

And, it is at the end of Footscray Road.

As far as I'm concerned only AAMI Park offers a better viewing experience in Melbourne.

[Greystache]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-01/great-day-for-geelong-as-latest-simonds-stadium-upgrade-gets-green-light


The next stage of the Simonds stadium upgrade has been rubber stamped which will take the total coin injected to $90 million. Not that it will happen, but would $90 million be enough to get Whitten Oval to the level it would need to be to be a boutique AFL venue?

I hope not. I understand everyone is nostalgic about Whitten Oval but it's a horrible place to watch football, it's cold, windy, difficult to see, and the games are often terrible spectacles due to the conditions. The only way I'd want to go back to playing AFL games there would be if they put a roof on it, and $90mil isn't going to get that done. This despite living in Yarraville where I could pretty much walk to the ground.

Etihad is a great place to watch footy, it's only problem is the jerks running it.

[Twodogs]

I hope not. I understand everyone is nostalgic about Whitten Oval but it's a horrible place to watch football, it's cold, windy, difficult to see, and the games are often terrible spectacles due to the conditions. The only way I'd want to go back to playing AFL games there would be if they put a roof on it, and $90mil isn't going to get that done. This despite living in Yarraville where I could pretty much walk to the ground.

Etihad is a great place to watch footy, it's only problem is the jerks running it.

That's one of the things I love about it. I don't want a brand new stadium. This one is fine.

[SonofScray]

I would like us to build a boutique stadium at Skinner Reserve.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

I would like us to build a boutique stadium at Skinner Reserve.

It is a boutique stadium

[PedroArvy]

I'd be happy to trade in a level 2 seat at Etihad for $500 for standing room only at the Whitten Oval, in the rain with someone's beer getting over me occasionally. Those were the days, bring them back, you have my vote!