Jarrad Grant?

[LostDoggy]

Wasn't it great that someone actually had 5 shots at goal, something we haven't seen from one player for at least two years.

Jones and Dahl have had 5 shots on goal a few times. But it was nice to see from someone else for sure.

[LostDoggy]

Glad he is in the side and glad he is showing something. He has improved the side since coming in.

This is the point. The side has looked better and has had more options with Grant in the team, he not only leads regularly but leads up the ground to get involved even at half back. He provides something we sorely lack.

[Greystache]

Wasn't it great that someone actually had 5 shots at goal, something we haven't seen from one player for at least two years.

Dylan Addison kicked 4.1 in round 9. Just a few weeks later you were demanding he be delisted.

[bornadog]

Dylan Addison kicked 4.1 in round 9. Just a few weeks later you were demanding he be delisted.

They were cheap ones out the back.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

They were cheap ones out the back.

I seem to recall him playing a blinder, taking strong marks etc.

Not many supporters are fans but I still think Addison is handy as a fringe player, particularly in these next couple of developmental years. He'll never be guaranteed a game, but is OK for back-up in the event of injuries or younger players needing a rest (ie. Stringer).

[Greystache]

They were cheap ones out the back.

Of course they were so that wouldn't count.

Dickson has also done it twice in his last 20 games. Do they count either?

[The Underdog]

It wasn't meant to be a comparison, more a statement.

Besides, the innacuracy in yesterday's game wasn't the point of the post, more just that singling out the only sub par actions from his game and ignoring everything good about it is pure scapegoating.

I don't disagree. I thought he was solid yesterday and backed up his good work from the week before. He gives us pace, nous and a good pair of hands in the forward line. We shouldn't forsake the good parts and focus only on a negative. We also shouldn't pretend that there isn't something he does badly due to the things he does well.

[Mantis]

Wasn't it great that someone actually had 5 shots at goal, something we haven't seen from one player for at least two years.

Jones has kicked 4.1 & 4.2 this year... does that count?

[bornadog]

Jones has kicked 4.1 & 4.2 this year... does that count?

Yes they all count satisfied people

[jeemak]

This is a simple and obvious answer. Who would you prefer in our forward line ..... Ayce Cordy or Jarrad Grant?

I think the past two games (compared to the palm tree experiment) provide a very obvious answer.

On current output, Grant every day of the week.

But are we playing right now for maximising current output and just living with that, or are we attempting to build a solid forward line and solid team capable of winning a premiership?

It's completely stupefying to me that people can't seen why games get gifted to younger, taller developing players when we're shit and looking at ways of climbing the ladder. Grant himself received games when he didn't deserve them on the back of him needing to develop, as did a truck load of other players we've seen walk through the doors of our club, stay there for a while, a long time or a short time.

I'm not saying Cordy is going to make it by the way, though I find it a bit funny that supporters can be so short sighted that they don't understand why he might be given games whilst we're trying to determine how the club might move forward.

[Mantis]

Yes they all count satisfied people

I will be when you stop posting tripe.

[LostDoggy]

Cmon people, ease up on BAD, the point was made.

[bornadog]

I will be when you stop posting tripe.

Better than snipe between you and Greystache. Frankly getting sick of it

[Greystache]

I seem to recall him playing a blinder, taking strong marks etc.

Not many supporters are fans but I still think Addison is handy as a fringe player, particularly in these next couple of developmental years. He'll never be guaranteed a game, but is OK for back-up in the event of injuries or younger players needing a rest (ie. Stringer).

People have scapegoats, they see only the bad couple of things a player does and ignore all the good things they do. You won't change their minds no matter what they do.

[jeemak]

People have scapegoats, they see only the bad couple of things a player does and ignore all the good things they do. You won't change their minds no matter what they do.

None of us are above that, to be fair. We all try and be as objective as we can be, though just like every football coach ever to coach an AFL side, supporters have biases towards certain players and against others.

[bulldogtragic]

None of us are above that, to be fair. We all try and be as objective as we can be, though just like every football coach ever to coach an AFL side, supporters have biases towards certain players and against others.
Agree 100%. It's funny how this thread 30 posts ago was people overlooking Grant's good things and some of us standing up for him. Now others are standing up for others who have positives overlooked. It must just be the way things are, we all see things differently apparently.

[jeemak]

Agree 100%. It's funny how this thread 30 posts ago was people overlooking Grant's good things and some of us standing up for him. Now others are standing up for others who have positives overlooked. It must just be the way things are, we all see things differently apparently.

While we're rubbish it's amplified, but for the most part the nature of football reviewing and analysis always brings up opinions, some based on objective reason, others based on subjective reason and anything in between.

I've ridden a few hobby horses in my time on WOOF, none more so than Daniel Cross circa 2011, until he showed me up in 2012.

What we all forget along the way however, is that for the most part we have absolutely no bloody idea what's going on inside the club and why it's happening. We just do our best to interpret the information as we see it. We need to make our preferences work around that.

[Ozza]

If Grant had have kicked accurately on the weekend it would have been a good game from him.

He has shown some good signs in the last 2 weeks, and if he continues in that vein it's at least in some part a credit to the coaches for not putting in the side until he was
- over injuries
- had built a fitness base
- had worked on the areas he needed to address in his game.

[Mantis]

He has shown some good signs in the last 2 weeks, and if he continues in that vein it's at least in some part a credit to the coaches for not putting in the side until he was
- over injuries
- had built a fitness base
- had worked on the areas he needed to address in his game.

He is producing the same sort of performances (both in numbers & effort) that he did when recalled to the team late last year... I find it staggering that it has taken 4 months to get an opportunity in an under-performing team.

[bulldogtragic]

Question what you want, the last three weeks we've been competitive. Coincidentally, This is Grants return over this period:

18 marks (inc. 8 inside 50, 2 contested)
30 kicks
22 hand balls
9 tackles
5 goals
4 behinds
9 shots at goal
6 goal assists
5 inside 50's


Bloody excellent return. Plus he's a target, puts pressure, chases, works the entire ground, improves structure and has a wicked look-away handball.

[Rance Fan]

He has arrived...and here to stay!

[mighty_west]

Another good performance from Grant, putting his body on the line a real highlight, has really taken his chances since coming back in the side, great work Grant.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Grant is a wizard and congratulations to him for bringing himself back from the brink to where he belongs, the arena where he can display his work ethic and his smarts in the greatest game in the world.

[LostDoggy]

He had a very good day, he was very happy after his last goal, it's not something he usually shows.

[chef]

Loved his game today. Another piece of the puzzle falling into place.

[azabob]

How good was his mark on the wing in the first half when it was 2 eagles and him?

[bulldogtragic]

How good was his mark on the wing in the first half when it was 2 eagles and him?
Yep, it only reads as 'contested mark' on the stats sheet, but it was an absolute specky cracker!

[LostDoggy]

The contested mark, plus the backing into a pack with courage, he's shown willingness to chase before, but that courage probably not. He really looks like he wants it.

[Ghost Dog]

I liked the way the boys got around him too. Anyone else notice the new respect?

[DOG GOD]

A great game today..just goes to show that if you work hard enough, the talent will shine through. We have never doubted grant has the talent to succeed, but it's very pleasing to see he has worked on the work ethic and is reaping the rewards....great stuff!!!

[LongWait]

I liked the way the boys got around him too. Anyone else notice the new respect?

I noticed it a couple of times. If you work hard and go when it's your time to go you get respect.

Very happy for Grant - this past couple of games will be the making of him (today especially.)

[GVGjr]

This from Macca which I think sums him up perfectly

McCartney: It was a nice progression game for Grant today. Talent has always been there, urgency not always. He starting to connect the two.

Well done to the coaching team to bring him in when he has embraced the message

[neddie]

The contested mark, plus the backing into a pack with courage, he's shown willingness to chase before, but that courage probably not. He really looks like he wants it.

Now that Grant has risen from the "dead' as a number ONE pick ,.maybe it's time to give Howard a go!!:rolleyes:

[bulldogtragic]

This from Macca which I think sums him up perfectly

McCartney: It was a nice progression game for Grant today. Talent has always been there, urgency not always. He starting to connect the two.

Well done to the coaching team to bring him in when he has embraced the message
Well done to Grant for copping it on the chin and showing the club, his fans and himself that he can play to a serious level with extra x-factor.

[LostDoggy]

Now that Grant has risen from the "dead' as a number ONE pick ,.maybe it's time to give Howard a go!!:rolleyes:

Howard was match day emergency so he must be in the coaching staff's thoughts

[soupman]

I liked the way the boys got around him too. Anyone else notice the new respect?

Loved seeing this stuff. Really shows they want to play for eachother.

In contrast when Josh Hill kicked that goal from the boundary in the first half not a single West Coast player came near him to congratulate him or anything. The first person to come near him after kicking that goal was the runner just before the ball was bounced. Not Mr Popular I think.

[Go_Dogs]

This from Macca which I think sums him up perfectly

McCartney: It was a nice progression game for Grant today. Talent has always been there, urgency not always. He starting to connect the two.

Well done to the coaching team to bring him in when he has embraced the message

Spot on - there were a lot of questions being asked regarding his management this year but based on how well he has played the past 3 weeks, for the longer term development of Grant as a player, it is near impossible to fault the coaching staff for their approach.

Hats off to Grant today, was a very dedicated performance. He really appears to have turned the corner and hopefully he finishes off the year in similar fashion and is then primed for a stellar 2014.

[Mofra]

In contrast when Josh Hill kicked that goal from the boundary in the first half not a single West Coast player came near him to congratulate him or anything. The first person to come near him after kicking that goal was the runner just before the ball was bounced. Not Mr Popular I think.
That was very noticeable - and the only player who went near him (after Josh jogged 30m) changed direction at the last minute to grab a water bottle. Hill = nowhere to be found when the heat was on. B-Mac wouldn't be a fan of his style of play.

[LostDoggy]

Hill backed out of a contest with Griff early on too

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This from Macca which I think sums him up perfectly

McCartney: It was a nice progression game for Grant today. Talent has always been there, urgency not always. He starting to connect the two.

Well done to the coaching team to bring him in when he has embraced the message

I've always been a big fan of Grant as I think he can be an electric player with several points of difference. He's showing that since returning to the side, hopefully he's able to continue on.

It would be a massive feather in McCartney's cap if he can turn Grant around. As much as I liked him, he looked gone not long ago. It could be a real success story, particularly once we get some capable forwards to support him/Jones.

[F'scary]

I've always been a big fan of Grant as I think he can be an electric player with several points of difference. He's showing that since returning to the side, hopefully he's able to continue on.

It would be a massive feather in McCartney's cap if he can turn Grant around. As much as I liked him, he looked gone not long ago. It could be a real success story, particularly once we get some capable forwards to support him/Jones.

I like your phrase "points of difference." Grant does have a different way of playing and I hope he can keep up the form turnaround.

[bornadog]

He is also gaining confidence with every game.

[azabob]

Loved seeing this stuff. Really shows they want to play for eachother.

In contrast when Josh Hill kicked that goal from the boundary in the first half not a single West Coast player came near him to congratulate him or anything. The first person to come near him after kicking that goal was the runner just before the ball was bounced. Not Mr Popular I think.

That was strange wasn't it?

[jeemak]

Loved seeing this stuff. Really shows they want to play for eachother.

In contrast when Josh Hill kicked that goal from the boundary in the first half not a single West Coast player came near him to congratulate him or anything. The first person to come near him after kicking that goal was the runner just before the ball was bounced. Not Mr Popular I think.


That was very noticeable - and the only player who went near him (after Josh jogged 30m) changed direction at the last minute to grab a water bottle. Hill = nowhere to be found when the heat was on. B-Mac wouldn't be a fan of his style of play.

I was staggered by the example of his goal from the boundary, and his last quarter goal by the lack of respect his team mates afforded him. Very telling, for Hill.

As for Grant, he just needs to expect from himself today's output each week. I thought he was a dangerous contributor each way today and showed how valuable he can be to the club. Excellent come back to this point.

[boydogs]

I liked the way the boys got around him too. Anyone else notice the new respect?

Yeah I did. Bulldogtragic noted when Grant first came back that he was presenting but often ignored, I wonder whether this will start to change now.


In contrast when Josh Hill kicked that goal from the boundary in the first half not a single West Coast player came near him to congratulate him or anything. The first person to come near him after kicking that goal was the runner just before the ball was bounced. Not Mr Popular I think.

Pretty poor from the Eagles, that was an excellent goal.

[LostDoggy]

Hill backed out of a contest with Griff early on too

I saw this.
It looked pathetically weak.

[ledge]

Macca has said in most if his letters it's important the team learn to hang in there, I think today it looked like finally happened, we hung in then when the game turned our way we took it

[LostDoggy]

LOL @ Josh Hill.

Great stuff from Grant. When I saw that moment just before he went for a mark knowing he would get crunched. I was just thinking "don't pull out, don't pull out" and he didn't. A goal resulted and everyone near him came to him to congratulate his courage!

[LostDoggy]

Great stuff from Grant. When I saw that moment just before he went for a mark knowing he would get crunched. I was just thinking "don't pull out, don't pull out" and he didn't. A goal resulted and everyone near him came to him to congratulate his courage!

These are the sort of moments you hope have the biggest bearing on Grants mindset. Knowing that these sort of efforts are treasured more from the group than the easy mark and goal.

[comrade]

I'm stoked that Grant has performed well over the past 3 weeks but he's had good patches before and then fallen off the face of the planet.

He needs to maintain this standard for the remainder of the season.

[bornadog]

I'm stoked that Grant has performed well over the past 3 weeks but he's had good patches before and then fallen off the face of the planet.

He needs to maintain this standard for the remainder of the season.

We all quickly forget that the bigger guys take longer to mature. He is certainly in that category and hope he keeps it going. The thing is, he has only just turned 24 years old.

[Mofra]

I'm stoked that Grant has performed well over the past 3 weeks but he's had good patches before and then fallen off the face of the planet.
The question is - has he ever been set so many non-negotiables before, before being given a senior berth?
I think the management of him this year has been quite good and his form now seems to be a little more "meat and potatoes" than flash.
I don't recall half the team going over to congratulate him before for a pice of play where he attacked the ball and gave someone else an opportunity.

Cautiously optimistic that the wheel has turned but we simply won't know until 2014.

[bulldogtragic]

Dream team Score Per Game Leaders Western Bulldogs 2013 (min. 3 games)

Rank Name Games Average

1 Ryan Griffen 13 108.38
2 Matthew Boyd 9 104.00
3 Tom Liberatore 15 90.47
4 Will Minson 15 90.40
5 Adam Cooney 13 86.77
6 Robert Murphy 12 85.83
7 Daniel Cross 8 85.62
8 Jarrad Grant 3 82.30

[Scorlibo]

Dream team Score Per Game Leaders Western Bulldogs 2013 (min. 3 games)

Rank Name Games Average

1 Ryan Griffen 13 108.38
2 Matthew Boyd 9 104.00
3 Tom Liberatore 15 90.47
4 Will Minson 15 90.40
5 Adam Cooney 13 86.77
6 Robert Murphy 12 85.83
7 Daniel Cross 8 85.62
8 Jarrad Grant 3 82.30

Supercoach is a better measure. He's 9th among Bulldog players there.

He was ranked 3rd amongst Bulldog players in the Official AFL Player Rankings for his game yesterday. Click here (http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/R18.jpg).

[bulldogtragic]

Supercoach is a better measure. He's 9th among Bulldog players there.

He was ranked 3rd amongst Bulldog players in the Official AFL Player Rankings for his game yesterday. Click here (http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/R18.jpg).
1 Ryan Griffen 15 121.87
2 Will Minson 17 111.71
3 Thomas Liberatore 17 103.41
4 Matthew Boyd 10 99.30
5 Robert Murphy 14 98.50
6 Adam Cooney 15 95.60
7 Brett Goodes 13 91.23
8 Daniel Cross 8 86.50
9 Jarrad Grant 3 79.30
10 Luke Dahlhaus 17 75.00
11 Michael Talia 8 74.25

[LostDoggy]

What a great problem to have. Up until four weeks ago Grant was almost certainly one of the players with red line through him for delisting / trade. Now his name would be in the clear based on the last three games.

Of he can keep his workrate and attitude up, which have seen him be a valuable contributor, he can become a major cog moving forward.

Who now takes his place on the scrapheap?

[Eastdog]

What a great problem to have. Up until four weeks ago Grant was almost certainly one of the players with red line through him for delisting / trade. Now his name would be in the clear based on the last three games.

Of he can keep his workrate and attitude up, which have seen him be a valuable contributor, he can become a major cog moving forward.

Who now takes his place on the scrapheap?

Howard maybe?

[F'scary]

What a great problem to have. Up until four weeks ago Grant was almost certainly one of the players with red line through him for delisting / trade. Now his name would be in the clear based on the last three games.

Of he can keep his workrate and attitude up, which have seen him be a valuable contributor, he can become a major cog moving forward.

Who now takes his place on the scrapheap?

Someone who has not earned a Mack Boots Tough Play nomination.

[The Underdog]

Someone who has not earned a Mack Boots Tough Play nomination.

So not Tutt then? :)

[LostDoggy]

Howard maybe?

My thinking with Howard is that maybe he is Grant V2. Another year I'd give him unless a viable trade comes through.

Another one off the table is Tutt, who would have been one of 6 or 7 who were on the delist/trade table.

The mix imo would be Gia and Cross retire, Markovic delist, Greenwood and Austin rookie delist. Outside of them I'm struggling.

[Eastdog]

My thinking with Howard is that maybe he is Grant V2. Another year I'd give him unless a viable trade comes through.

Another one off the table is Tutt, who would have been one of 6 or 7 who were on the delist/trade table.

The mix imo would be Gia retire, Markovic delist, Greenwood and Austin rookie delist. Outside of them I'm struggling.

I agree Markovic would be in trouble. What do you think of Ayce?

[LostDoggy]

I don't think much at the moment but we've invested time and resources into him. Next season with the stand alone should see him improve.

Caveat is, I wonder what would happen if we got a trade inquiry about him?

[Eastdog]

I don't think much at the moment but we've invested time and resources into him. Next season with the stand alone should see him improve.

Caveat is, I wonder what would happen if we got a trade inquiry about him?

The new Footscray VFL team will be really good for our list development. What would be his ideal role? I would say the ruck.

[Bulldog Joe]

My thinking with Howard is that maybe he is Grant V2. Another year I'd give him unless a viable trade comes through.

Another one off the table is Tutt, who would have been one of 6 or 7 who were on the delist/trade table.

The mix imo would be Gia and Cross retire, Markovic delist, Greenwood and Austin rookie delist. Outside of them I'm struggling.

I think wherever you start, Vez is in the 1st cab leaving.

[LostDoggy]

Ah yes, cheers BJ.

[Eastdog]

Will certainly need to cull our list come season's but make sure we don't cull back to much. I'm hoping we can get Tom Boyd but that will be hard because we have to be willing to give up someone good which I'm not sure will do.

[F'scary]

So not Tutt then? :)

No, he has tough boots now.

All he needs is a neck.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree Markovic would be in trouble. What do you think of Ayce?
Ayce has another two years on his contract ED.

[The Underdog]

No, he has tough boots now.

All he needs is a neck.

He's right behind Grant in saving his career, good on em both.

[F'scary]

No, he has tough boots now.

All he needs is a neck.

Actually, I like the way Tutt is developing his run and carry style. Adds a bit of contrast. He's got a nice long, straight drop punt too.

[F'scary]

He's right behind Grant in saving his career, good on em both.

Amen. It is a tragedy for the club if high draft picks don't come through.

Tutt was a mid 2nd round draft pick - wasn't he? That's not a selection to waste in any year.

[boydogs]

Tutt was a mid 2nd round draft pick - wasn't he? That's not a selection to waste in any year.

Late 2nd round, pick 31

[bulldogtragic]

Just watching the game on IQ today. Have been closely watching Grant, outside the main contests....

- His leading is excellent, he gets into very good positions. He just KNOWS where to get to, as his teammates become more aware, his will be a bigger asset
- He could have had 5 or 6 himself if teammates could have found him. Halfway though the second he engineered getting on his own in the goal square and they couldn't get it to him
- He works very well up and down the ground, being involved at HB and wing and runs hard to make the next play. His creativeness running from HF flank to HF flank to get free set up a few goals
- Despite being a feather weight, but puts his body on the line. Contested marks, tackles, shepherds and even roughing up opponents
- His stats were very good, but I was pleasently surprised by how hard he was working without the ball. Should make BMac happy.

[LostDoggy]

I noticed he doesn't just wait for the ball to be around him. Thus why he is known to go missing, he actually goes looking for the action. Seen him pick up a few stats in defence

[LostDoggy]

Just watching the game on IQ today. Have been closely watching Grant, outside the main contests....

- His leading is excellent, he gets into very good positions. He just KNOWS where to get to, as his teammates become more aware, his will be a bigger asset
- He could have had 5 or 6 himself if teammates could have found him. Halfway though the second he engineered getting on his own in the goal square and they couldn't get it to him
- He works very well up and down the ground, being involved at HB and wing and runs hard to make the next play. His creativeness running from HF flank to HF flank to get free set up a few goals
- Despite being a feather weight, but puts his body on the line. Contested marks, tackles, shepherds and even roughing up opponents
- His stats were very good, but I was pleasently surprised by how hard he was working without the ball. Should make BMac happy.
I did likewise and reached much the same conclusions. When looking closer than merely following the play, he offers a bit.

Same can be said for others. Jones. Addison. Dickson. The usual whipping boys.

[bulldogtragic]

Coaches votes WBFC v WCE

10 Dahlhaus (WB)
6 Cooney (WB)
6 Murphy (WB)
4 Liberatore (WB)
2 Gaff (WCE)
1 Grant (WB)
1 Griffen (WB)

[bulldogtragic]

Defence key to Grant's revival: www.westernbulldogs.com.au

A three goal haul may stand out on the statistician’s sheet, but Jarrad Grant’s breakout performance against West Coast Eagles revolves around more than just his impact on the score line.

The 24-year-old’s intensity off the ball has also impressed at Whitten Oval, Western Bulldogs Development Coach Ashley Hansen said, as well as Grant’s willingness to play his role for the team.

“[It was] a really exciting breakout game this year for Jarrad in the context of the season,” Hansen said.

“Jarrad is really starting to understand that he doesn’t have to be a ‘mark and kick goal’ kind of player.

“His ability to create the contest and cover defensively… was really important.

Averaging over six marks and almost two goals and two goal assists per game, Grant is quickly firming as a valuable cog in the Bulldogs attack.

The versatile tall has potential to cause headaches for the opposition’s defence, if he continues to back himself in the air and on the lead with his bursts of pace.

“He’s got great speed, he’s got goal sense, he’s also really strong overhead when he gets the opportunity to run and jump at it which we saw,” he said.

“If we can start to get that well rounded game when he is doing things when he hasn’t got the ball in his hand, that is what is going to make him a good Bulldogs player.”

[Ghost Dog]

We need to change the ? in the title of this thread to a !

[G-Mo77]

Coaches votes WBFC v WCE

10 Dahlhaus (WB)
6 Cooney (WB)
6 Murphy (WB)
4 Liberatore (WB)
2 Gaff (WCE)
1 Grant (WB)
1 Griffen (WB)

No surprises with Gaff. He was fantastic, took some really tough knocks as well and just kept going.

[Remi Moses]

Gaff was enormous early, he'd be an ideal fit for us.

[bulldogtragic]

Tonight on 360.

Bob Murphy: "there's a lot of love at the club for Granty"

Bob: "I've been telling Granty for a long time, from playing on him in intraclub games, his 'best' is the best I've played on"

WOW!

[Maddog37]

I think Macdaddy alluded to it in his presser.

We are grateful for what we are getting out of Grant now but there is so much more still untapped IMHO.

[Rocco Jones]

There was that moment in the game where Grant ran into traffic. A few minutes later he came off to applause from the faithful. Massive difference to the usual groans.

[LostDoggy]

All of this has been a case study in BMac's philosophy and it has paid dividends. Hopefully now supporters will be more willing to back the club in.

[Ghost Dog]

There was that moment in the game where Grant ran into traffic. A few minutes later he came off to applause from the faithful. Massive difference to the usual groans.

And I loved the finger salute to the Bulldogs fans as he trots through for a goal. His stocks just went up! massively.

[Scorlibo]

All of this has been a case study in BMac's philosophy and it has paid dividends. Hopefully now supporters will be more willing to back the club in.

Interesting take, a lot of people seem to be taking this line actually.

I'm not quite so ready to endorse the coaching staff for their role in his progression. We don't know how he would have performed had he been given his opportunity earlier in the year, maybe it would have been similar to how he's been the last 3 games - who knows? To give credit to the coaching staff for his good performances in recent weeks is similar to critiquing them for not getting the same positive performances at the level from Howard, Veszpremi etc. I'd much rather give credit to Jarrad himself.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting take, a lot of people seem to be taking this line actually.

I'm not quite so ready to endorse the coaching staff for their role in his progression. We don't know how he would have performed had he been given his opportunity earlier in the year, maybe it would have been similar to how he's been the last 3 games - who knows? To give credit to the coaching staff for his good performances in recent weeks is similar to critiquing them for not getting the same positive performances at the level from Howard, Veszpremi etc. I'd much rather give credit to Jarrad himself.
Yep. The only person between BMac and Jarrad who is leading, chasing, marking, goal kicking, setting up and dominating on field is Jarrad. This is a fact. The rest is supposition. Jarrad deserves the credit IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting take, a lot of people seem to be taking this line actually.

I'm not quite so ready to endorse the coaching staff for their role in his progression. We don't know how he would have performed had he been given his opportunity earlier in the year, maybe it would have been similar to how he's been the last 3 games - who knows? To give credit to the coaching staff for his good performances in recent weeks is similar to critiquing them for not getting the same positive performances at the level from Howard, Veszpremi etc. I'd much rather give credit to Jarrad himself.

Fair enough. As long as the coach doesn't subsequently get the blame if he lapses back into Old Grant Mode.

[Maddog37]

Interesting take, a lot of people seem to be taking this line actually.

I'm not quite so ready to endorse the coaching staff for their role in his progression. We don't know how he would have performed had he been given his opportunity earlier in the year, maybe it would have been similar to how he's been the last 3 games - who knows? To give credit to the coaching staff for his good performances in recent weeks is similar to critiquing them for not getting the same positive performances at the level from Howard, Veszpremi etc. I'd much rather give credit to Jarrad himself.


Why bother with coaches at all then?

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting take, a lot of people seem to be taking this line actually.

I'm not quite so ready to endorse the coaching staff for their role in his progression. We don't know how he would have performed had he been given his opportunity earlier in the year, maybe it would have been similar to how he's been the last 3 games - who knows? To give credit to the coaching staff for his good performances in recent weeks is similar to critiquing them for not getting the same positive performances at the level from Howard, Veszpremi etc. I'd much rather give credit to Jarrad himself.

So, we have a player who has provided basically nothing in 3 years and we have seen the coach and/or match committee treat him differently, but they have no credit for his resurgence.

It is of course all theory, but if Grant had been played from round 1 and showed the same shortcomings as in 2011 and 2012, would that have been his fault or that of the coach.

Reading some of the Williamstown reports, he was asked to do certain things and it appears that he may have learnt something about playing the game. There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that his efforts since returning to the senior side have had a greater intensity than he has ever previously produced.

Are we to believe that the idea of playing with intensity has suddenly just occurred to him randomly after 5 years?


Yep. The only person between BMac and Jarrad who is leading, chasing, marking, goal kicking, setting up and dominating on field is Jarrad. This is a fact. The rest is supposition. Jarrad deserves the credit IMO.

..and because Jarrad suddenly (for some random reson) decided to do this the credit should all be given to him and none to the coaches, who may just have given him some inkling that this was required.

[bulldogtragic]

So, we have a player who has provided basically nothing in 3 years and we have seen the coach and/or match committee treat him differently, but they have no credit for his resurgence.

It is of course all theory, but if Grant had been played from round 1 and showed the same shortcomings as in 2011 and 2012, would that have been his fault or that of the coach.

Reading some of the Williamstown reports, he was asked to do certain things and it appears that he may have learnt something about playing the game. There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that his efforts since returning to the senior side have had a greater intensity than he has ever previously produced.

Are we to believe that the idea of playing with intensity has suddenly just occurred to him randomly after 5 years?



..and because Jarrad suddenly (for some random reson) decided to do this the credit should all be given to him and none to the coaches, who may just have given him some inkling that this was required.
I'm not potting BMac or the MC. At all. Far from it.

My suggestion is whatever has happened off-field, and for however long, by whoever, are things which cannot be definitevely and absolutely measured. What can be measured is his output. Hence the outpouring of support for Jarrad!

What if the coaches took the line they did and Jarrad simply gave up? The coaches would be credited with weeding out a weak player. It's about CHOICE. The coaches CHOSE their position. It was then completely up to Jarrad how he would approach his footy. He CHOSE to respond positively. Both good decisions in hindsight, but my only point is its Jarrad making this circumstance work. For me, just my personal opinion, Grant deserves the spoils of playing well. No other player on the list plays well and gets comments that others are responsible for their form. A players skill, attitude, application and output is something they live and die by. The coaches may have engineered the environment he's in, but it's him doing the work.

But really, the coaches look good, Granty is playing out of his skin, were playing well, we won on the weekend, i got t scream the song out, and there's no losers, so give everyone credit! :)

[GVGjr]

But really, the coaches look good, Granty is playing out of his skin, were playing well, we won on the weekend, i got t scream the song out, and there's no losers, so give everyone credit! :)


The problem is that Grant has been gifted games in the past and it never improved his attitude or work ethic. Someone has now drawn a line in the sand and made him earn it and as a result he has made every post a winner.

We all knew he had the talent but like, Hill and Everitt before him no one could drag that out of him on a consistent basis. While I believe the our sample that Grant is back to his best is too small at the moment I think its a joint effort between the MC and the player. Grant simply needs to back it up for the balance of the season

[Scorlibo]

So, we have a player who has provided basically nothing in 3 years and we have seen the coach and/or match committee treat him differently, but they have no credit for his resurgence.

It is of course all theory, but if Grant had been played from round 1 and showed the same shortcomings as in 2011 and 2012, would that have been his fault or that of the coach.

Reading some of the Williamstown reports, he was asked to do certain things and it appears that he may have learnt something about playing the game. There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that his efforts since returning to the senior side have had a greater intensity than he has ever previously produced.

Are we to believe that the idea of playing with intensity has suddenly just occurred to him randomly after 5 years?


I need to pull you up on a few points.

1. He definitely didn't provide 'nothing' from 2010-12. He was a regular senior player, in 2010 he was a key cog in the forward line.

2. I'm not sold on the intensity argument. Second, third efforts have always been one of his stronger attributes while in the senior side.

3. He's played 3 games, whatever conclusions we're all drawing about his success this year are really quite premature.

4. After 5 years, a player matures (yes, often of their own accord/in line with their own natural development as a player). Cooney won a Brownlow in his 5th year, was his turn around purely to do with Rocket Eade's influence? No, it was a young player maturing. Grant is a young player and people forget that. Grant's turn around isn't as you put it, 'random'.

[LostDoggy]

I need to pull you up on a few points.

1. He definitely didn't provide 'nothing' from 2010-12. He was a regular senior player, in 2010 he was a key cog in the forward line.

2. I'm not sold on the intensity argument. Second, third efforts have always been one of his stronger attributes while in the senior side.

3. He's played 3 games, whatever conclusions we're all drawing about his success this year are really quite premature.

4. After 5 years, a player matures (yes, often of their own accord/in line with their own natural development as a player). Cooney won a Brownlow in his 5th year, was his turn around purely to do with Rocket Eade's influence? No, it was a young player maturing. Grant is a young player and people forget that. Grant's turn around isn't as you put it, 'random'.

Yep, new draftees just rock up and go about their business. After 5 years, they come good. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[bulldogtragic]

Why can't we just say... The club took a position. Put it on Grant. Grant has done very well. Credit to Grant for doing everything he has done this year.

Why is saying Grant deserves the credit for pulling his finger out a bad thing or a negative inference on others?

Can we not be happy?

[wimberga]

Why can't we just say... The club took a position. Put it on Grant. Grant has done very well. Credit to Grant for doing everything he has done this year.

Why is saying Grant deserves the credit for pulling his finger out a bad thing or a negative inference on others?

Can we not be happy?

Well said.

Grant playing well. Club reaping rewards.

[Greystache]

Why can't we just say... The club took a position. Put it on Grant. Grant has done very well. Credit to Grant for doing everything he has done this year.

Why is saying Grant deserves the credit for pulling his finger out a bad thing or a negative inference on others?

Can we not be happy?

I think people have a right to highlight Grant's recent positive output as a counter to those only recently accusing the coach of badly mismanaging him.

[Bulldog Joe]

I need to pull you up on a few points.

1. He definitely didn't provide 'nothing' from 2010-12. He was a regular senior player, in 2010 he was a key cog in the forward line.
My statement about providing nothing specifically excluded 2010, where he did show something. His performance in the finals was, however, abysmal.


2. I'm not sold on the intensity argument. Second, third efforts have always been one of his stronger attributes while in the senior side. You must have been watching a different player from 2011 onwards. He often struggled to give first efforts in my observation.


3. He's played 3 games, whatever conclusions we're all drawing about his success this year are really quite premature.
Agreed. He does need to now do this consistently.


4. After 5 years, a player matures (yes, often of their own accord/in line with their own natural development as a player). Cooney won a Brownlow in his 5th year, was his turn around purely to do with Rocket Eade's influence? No, it was a young player maturing. Grant is a young player and people forget that. Grant's turn around isn't as you put it, 'random'.
We have had a few players over the years who have NOT come good. There is more to it than just being on the list and natural development.
The comparison with Cooney is just not correct.
Cooney did win the Brownlow in his 5th season, but he showed an upward trend in his development through those years.

Grant showed something in 2010 (yr 2) but went seriously backwards to the extent that it has taken him until this year to play another game where he has had any real impact.

The evidence to me is that the coaching staff have had some influence on that outcome.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Oh boy this is painful.
Credit to the coaching staff.
AND credit to Jarrad Grant.

[Scorlibo]

Yep, new draftees just rock up and go about their business. After 5 years, they come good. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well obviously it's not that simple, but everyone is acting as though Jarrad has come from nowhere to post this good form, when really he's showed something similar to this in the past and for mine it's just natural progression which has seen him play well in the last 3 games. Credit to the coaching staff for having the balls to admit they were wrong and give him a game.



We have had a few players over the years who have NOT come good. There is more to it than just being on the list and natural development.
The comparison with Cooney is just not correct.
Cooney did win the Brownlow in his 5th season, but he showed an upward trend in his development through those years.

Grant showed something in 2010 (yr 2) but went seriously backwards to the extent that it has taken him until this year to play another game where he has had any real impact.

The evidence to me is that the coaching staff have had some influence on that outcome.

Actually in the 3 years before his Brownlow year, Adam didn't improve all that much.

I don't dispute that the coaching staff will always play a large role in the progression of a player, but I don't have to agree with everyone else that he's been well managed this year purely because he's playing well. He might have played well in round 4 if he'd been given a game then!

I would be more willing to accept the coaching argument if Granty was in his 9th year ala a Ryan Griffen or 11th year ala Will Minson.

Anyway, I won't say any more, that's my position and I don't think there's anything you or I could say to sway each others' opinions. As others have said, it's great for the club that he's come through in these last 3 weeks in good form, that's all that really matters.

[bornadog]

w6KBGsboN6s&feature=share&list=UUCYdpsLzNPQpmOdZt_a7DNA

[Ghost Dog]

Notice how Ash says ' No matter what position he's playing'. If he shows that kind of intensity he'd do just fine down back. Bit of Dustin Fletcher there. So happy to see him enjoying the fruits of his hard work.

[1eyedog]

Such a good decision maker. Wish they had of showed the going back with the flight footage.

[Murphy'sLore]

Such a good decision maker. Wish they had of showed the going back with the flight footage.

It's on the Mack Tough video on the WB website if you want to enjoy it again.

[1eyedog]

It's on the Mack Tough video on the WB website if you want to enjoy it again.

Yes thanks. I thought the coaches might have highlighted it as an indication of where he is at now in terms of competitiveness and bravery - two things I didn't associated with Grant to be honest.

That act was more important in the greater scheme of his development than any of his 3 goals or indeed anything he has done over the past 3 weeks.

[always right]

Well obviously it's not that simple, but everyone is acting as though Jarrad has come from nowhere to post this good form, when really he's showed something similar to this in the past and for mine it's just natural progression which has seen him play well in the last 3 games. Credit to the coaching staff for having the balls to admit they were wrong and give him a game.


When did they admit this?

[whythelongface]

When did they admit this?

Good question. The coaching staff haven't admitted anything to this nature. Why would they? They have been working with Grant over the last 12 to 18 months to try and make him a more consistent player (amongst other things) and have selected him for the senior team when they felt he was ready. From what we have seen thus far over the last 3 weeks it appears to have been a succesful decision, however time will tell.

[bulldogtragic]

FFS! :(

He may be my favourite player, but seriously, I can't understand why we can't fall in behind a young talented player. Say well done and wait for next week. Why is this being over-thought? Why is his form in playing well contingent on other things. Jarrad is the one running, tackling, goaling, being crunched etc.

Honestly, if you can't just say something positive about Jarrad, than find another bloody thread. There are plenty of other threads about either the MC, BMac, forward line set up, selections etc.

Here I was thinking there could be just one thread here where support would be given to Jarrad, if and ONLY if, he was plying well. And he is! So come back when he has a quite game, smack him around for being laconic, with a bad personality etc, etc. - until then let supporters of his support him.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=Scorlibo;337562] Credit to the coaching staff for having the balls to admit they were wrong and give him a game.

They weren't wrong.

Grant had no chance of playing unless we had a horror run of injuries. He was sent back to improve his fitness and to rectify deficiencies in his game. Most notably what he was doing when he didn't have the ball. He could take marks and kick goals but if he wasn't playing a team role defensively then he would stay in the reserves. Clearly he has been shown what was expected of him in terms of compressing space, going up the ground to help out, providing blocks and contests and second efforts. He was not going to be promoted if he didn't or couldn't change his ways. Players who don't buy in to the team non negotiables don't prolong their careers here. That's as it should be. It's what has made the Swans such an outstanding team.

Grant had to demonstrate this consistently. That does not involve rushing him back but educating him and giving him time to practise and show signs of improvement in the specific areas asked of him.

[chef]

FFS! :(

He may be my favourite player, but seriously, I can't understand why we can't fall in behind a young talented player. Say well done and wait for next week. Why is this being over-thought? Why is his form in playing well contingent on other things. Jarrad is the one running, tackling, goaling, being crunched etc.

Honestly, if you can't just say something positive about Jarrad, than find another bloody thread. There are plenty of other threads about either the MC, BMac, forward line set up, selections etc.

Here I was thinking there could be just one thread here where support would be given to Jarrad, if and ONLY if, he was plying well. And he is! So come back when he has a quite game, smack him around for being laconic, with a bad personality etc, etc. - until then let supporters of his support him.

Well said mate.

[bornadog]

FFS! :(

He may be my favourite player, but seriously, I can't understand why we can't fall in behind a young talented player. Say well done and wait for next week. Why is this being over-thought? Why is his form in playing well contingent on other things. Jarrad is the one running, tackling, goaling, being crunched etc.

Honestly, if you can't just say something positive about Jarrad, than find another bloody thread. There are plenty of other threads about either the MC, BMac, forward line set up, selections etc.

Here I was thinking there could be just one thread here where support would be given to Jarrad, if and ONLY if, he was plying well. And he is! So come back when he has a quite game, smack him around for being laconic, with a bad personality etc, etc. - until then let supporters of his support him.

Couldn't agree more

[1eyedog]

Well said mate.

The issue is that Jarrad Grant is still enshrouded in controversy, some of it his doing but a lot of it not. I think it revolves around the perception that for long periods of time with us he has been concerned about himself and not necessarily committed to the team game. He also seems a fairly nonchalant character and it must be said a bit difficult to warm to.

I like him, he's a different cat and that's a good thing but for our more conservative, traditional supporters it may be a while before the veil is lifted.

[G-Mo77]

He may be my favourite player, but seriously, I can't understand why we can't fall in behind a young talented player. Say well done and wait for next week. Why is this being over-thought? Why is his form in playing well contingent on other things. Jarrad is the one running, tackling, goaling, being crunched etc.

Honestly, if you can't just say something positive about Jarrad, than find another bloody thread. There are plenty of other threads about either the MC, BMac, forward line set up, selections etc.

Here I was thinking there could be just one thread here where support would be given to Jarrad, if and ONLY if, he was plying well. And he is! So come back when he has a quite game, smack him around for being laconic, with a bad personality etc, etc. - until then let supporters of his support him.


Show me where the negativity or lack of support for Grant is in this thread?

Someone mentioned the coaching staff had pretty much nothing to do with how he is playing, which is completely ludicrous. Coaches get blamed for someone not performing but have nothing to do with progression. :confused:

Well done to all involved I say!

[Hotdog60]

It takes two to tango.

[bulldogtragic]

Show me where the negativity or lack of support for Grant is in this thread?

Someone mentioned the coaching staff had pretty much nothing to do with how he is playing, which is completely ludicrous. Coaches get blamed for someone not performing but have nothing to do with progression. :confused:

Well done to all involved I say!
If you didn't know how well Grant played the last 3 weeks, I don't believe this thread (last 2 pages esp.) would make you think he's been as good as he has been.

How many other players play well only to have the public commentary concentrate on what coaches roles played, not what they're doing on field?

I have no issues with the MC or BMac. None. My sole issue is that Grant is the one actually walking the walk, and for that he deserves the credit here. This is me being positive! :)

[jeemak]

Yay! Another WOOF thread turns to crap :)

[Go_Dogs]

Show me where the negativity or lack of support for Grant is in this thread?

Someone mentioned the coaching staff had pretty much nothing to do with how he is playing, which is completely ludicrous. Coaches get blamed for someone not performing but have nothing to do with progression. :confused:

Well done to all involved I say!

I tend to agree - I'm not sure anyone here has been uncomplimentary to Grant, I think the thrust has been, he's done exceptionally well the past 3 weeks (and credit to him for that) and that we all hope that continues for the balance of the season, and that some credit must surely be attributed to the coaching staff for their management of him too.

We can speculate all we like about whether he would've had the same impact from earlier in the year or not - but that is all hearsay, uncertain and never able to be measured. The players (Gia and Murph in particular - Gia in the recent article and Murph on AFL360) and Macca have each said that the Club wanted to see consistency in Grant doing the team thing, bringing the required intensity and application - and now that he has demonstrated that to their satisfaction (I assume both at VFL level and on the training track and with his rehab and everything else in between) he has been brought into the senior side and been very impressive. They have all remarked the talent has always been there, no question, but that he needed to get more consistent and improve in certain areas to become a consistent performer who can continually utilise his talents at AFL level.

Black and white opinions/viewpoints simply don't stack up and I think everyone involved would be pleased with whatever contributions (as small or significant they may be) that have brought Grant to this point where he is no longer seen as a certain delistee by most supporters, but a very important part of our future over the next 6-8 years.

Another good test for his this week and I'm pretty excited to see how he'll go against the Swans.

[Happy Days]

Grant is the sickest, takes hangers and kicks sick goals. I don't like how much more team oriented he's become, I wanted to see him and Stringer try to out-awesome one another for years to come but it looks like they're going to be too damn cohesive.

[LostDoggy]

Grant is the sickest, takes hangers and kicks sick goals. I don't like how much more team oriented he's become, I wanted to see him and Stringer try to out-awesome one another for years to come but it looks like they're going to be too damn cohesive.

Out-awesome Stringer? Wha???

[1eyedog]

Grant is the sickest, takes hangers and kicks sick goals. I don't like how much more team oriented he's become, I wanted to see him and Stringer try to out-awesome one another for years to come but it looks like they're going to be too damn cohesive.

Yep, Stringer and Grant in the forward line together, look out!

[SonofScray]

I tend to lean a little in Scorlibo's direction, but not quite because I am also a Mac man. They (Grant and BMc) are actually my two favourite Bulldog people at the moment.

They asked Grant to build up his body and pulled him out of footy for a few weeks (maybe last year?) mid season. They asked him to be a more aggressive unit and show us the desire to chase and be a presence. I thought on return the seniors after that stint his effort in those areas was well and truly up. Certainly he showed that aggro, pest streak that has been an exciting aside to his good form recently. The effort to follow instructions was there IMO, but maybe the ability was limited. We are talking about an exceptional talent, and an unusual character. Maybe that side of the game just took more practice, or a more mature body.

Pre season he showed a bit again, before dropping off a lot. I think that was mostly confidence. Worked hard for no reward, got down on things and the opportunities dried up. For me, his skill set and personality you see on field puts him in the basket of one of those guys that steps up, or down to the level he finds himself in. Sometimes you see a young tall and think, "he'd be better served in a team that can look after him a bit more with decent disposal rather than wallowing in the twos." There is a bit of that in Grant's career to date.

He is a fascinating character, hence the wealth of opinions on his career so far. I'd like to think that is because we all know that he has the capacity to be a real freak of a player. One who can hit the scoreboard, take speccies, blitz opponents with pace and generally light the track up. If we get him playing to some of the values we love, but aren't apparent in his natural game (a bit more dour defensively, more team oriented, self sacrifice etc) the love will be through the roof.

Of course it will take some time for people to swallow some pride or learn to appreciate his best attributes after a few seasons of admiring more Boyd-type players but we should let it go and just enjoy the ride. His form is up, welcome to The Show.

[Ghost Dog]

His running is what really makes him so valuable to us at the moment. His 60m lead then quick pass off to Gia was outstanding.

[SonofScray]

His running is what really makes him so valuable to us at the moment. His 60m lead then quick pass off to Gia was outstanding.

The give off after a long lead like that is one of the bread and butter plays in footy, but for such a basic thing it really gets you up and about in the stands doesn't it. Gut busting run, solid possession and a slick hand pass to the equally hard running team mate who slots it from just outside 50m - crowd pleaser.

[Ghost Dog]

Does he remind anyone of Robert Flower? Watch some footage. Skinny, agile, great in the air and on the ground.

[Scorlibo]

His running is what really makes him so valuable to us at the moment. His 60m lead then quick pass off to Gia was outstanding.

Or was it Dickson? He hit the ball at such incredible pace, when he turns the jets on there aren't many who can catch him. Probably my favourite play from the weekend, you had to be at the ground to fully appreciate how exiting it was.

[Ghost Dog]

Or was it Dickson? He hit the ball at such incredible pace, when he turns the jets on there aren't many who can catch him. Probably my favourite play from the weekend, you had to be at the ground to fully appreciate how exiting it was.

Sorry, correct, Dicko the Prison Builder.

[stefoid]

Does he remind anyone of Robert Flower? Watch some footage. Skinny, agile, great in the air and on the ground.

Murph = flower

[bulldogtragic]

That's my boy! :)

[bulldogtragic]

Just another 12 kicks, 8 handballs, 4 marks, 3 tackles and 3 goals and another 90+ dream team points (8th overall).

[chef]

Another very good game by Jarrad. Very impressed with Maccas man management skills and Grants maturity.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Another very good game by Jarrad. Very impressed with Maccas man management skills and Grants maturity.

Agreed. Now lets see Veszpremi rise from the ashes.

[ReLoad]

Very happy to retract all the bad things I have said about Jarrad, he certainly has turned it around. Kudos to him and those who had faith in him, cos I sure as hell didn't.

[bornadog]

Very happy to retract all the bad things I have said about Jarrad, he certainly has turned it around. Kudos to him and those who had faith in him, cos I sure as hell didn't.

Nice to see some supporters admit they judged him harshly, well done. Lets hope he continues to improve.:)

[Eastdog]

Great to see his getting some form since he first played in the senior side this year.

[G-Mo77]

I think that was his best today. I've been worried he's going to drop off. Consistency has always been a problem in the past, doesn't seem like it now.

[Sedat]

Not a bad run of form considering it has been against the Cheats, Hawks, Eagles and Swans. No dud teams amongst that lot.

I was skeptical of his treatment by BMac and the MC but clearly their tough love approach has had the desired effect. And credit where it is due, Jarrad has walked the walk out in the heat of the kitchen. Probably the best month of footy he's played in his AFL career.

[bulldogtragic]

Hopefully the last few weeks is the end of "but he drops the ball funny" remarks.

Season Effective disposal at 74% (Griffen 69%) and 6.0 goals in the last two.

[LostDoggy]

Hopefully the last few weeks is the end of "but he drops the ball funny" remarks.

Season Effective disposal at 74% (Griffen 69%) and 6.0 goals in the last two.

The Jarrad Grant Flick pass TM is starting to grow on me, first week I thought he was a bit overzealous with a couple but he is very clever with it.

[bulldogtragic]

The Jarrad Grant Flick pass TM is starting to grow on me, first week I thought he was a bit overzealous with a couple but he is very clever with it.
:) not only has he got the confidence and skill to do it at AFL level, he's 100% effective at it!

[anfo27]

Been tickled pink with Grants form over the last month. Well done to Macca in making Grant earn his spot. He is a different player, really impressed with his composure with the footy & his consistency over the last month. Keep up the good work Merlin!

[GVGjr]

Hopefully the last few weeks is the end of "but he drops the ball funny" remarks.

Season Effective disposal at 74% (Griffen 69%) and 6.0 goals in the last two.

That shot he missed early in the game won't silence things. He's playing very well and can play a lot better.

[bulldogtragic]

That shot he missed early in the game won't silence things.
Then he is doomed to be a whipping boy.

74% DE and 6.0 GA. I don't care who the player is, or how he drops it. It should 'silence things'.

I have more faith in us G :) (or I'd like to anyway)

[GVGjr]

I have more faith in us G :) (or I'd like to anyway)

You must have known that that miss from a set shot was a shocker and therefore it would be challenged. I was never confident he would get close with it.

I want him to do well but he can improve a few things.

[SonofScray]

Then he is doomed to be a whipping boy.

74% DE and 6.0 GA. I don't care who the player is, or how he drops it. It should 'silence things'.

I have more faith in us G :) (or I'd like to anyway)

I'm a fan of Grant, but we need to start nailing those ones. His field kicking has been good regardless of ball drop but in set shot scenarios when he misses that is what will stand out.

[bulldogtragic]

You must have known that that miss from a set shot was a shocker and therefore it would be challenged. I was never confident he would get close with it.

I want him to do well but he can improve a few things.
Fair enough. I was hoping the one minor blemish of his game today would not be weighed against all the good things he did.

I agree, we are a developing team so most from today can improve. Watch out when we do!

[bulldogtragic]

I'm a fan of Grant, but we need to start nailing those ones. His field kicking has been good regardless of ball drop but in set shot scenarios when he misses that is what will stand out.
I agree it stands out. But the score book says 6.0 over the two weeks. That's 100%. Take the miss today, that's 6 out of 7 shots. That's about 86%.

If someone offered us a forward for next year, who:

Kicked 2 goals a week
Had a career goal accuracy of over 60% (86% / 100% in the last two weeks)
Field kicking of 74%
Averaged 18 touches and 5 marks
2 goals assists and 2 inside 50's

I'd think we'd be interested in them. Seems there's a significant focus on some negatives, I'd rather focus on the positive, which is detailed above.

[LostDoggy]

Hopefully the last few weeks is the end of "but he drops the ball funny" remarks.

Season Effective disposal at 74% (Griffen 69%) and 6.0 goals in the last two.

But he does BT. It's not always going to affect his kick, but the fact stands that it is an unorthodox drop. His control and execution do look to have improved which is great.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well done to Grant. He has performed well against good sides and this must be great for his confidence.

I am certainly one who thought he was done, but very happy with what he is showing.

The whole forward line is functioning better because he has brought movement and there is now more space for all the forwards.

[bulldogtragic]

But he does BT. It's not always going to affect his kick, but the fact stands that it is an unorthodox drop. His control and execution do look to have improved which is great.

My bad. I meant people cite his ball drop as proof of poor disposal/kicking. Which isn't supported as you point out.

[Dry Rot]

How long is Grant contracted for?

[chef]

That shot he missed early in the game won't silence things. He's playing very well and can play a lot better.

Pretty tough shot he missed.

[GVGjr]

Pretty tough shot he missed.

On the right side for a right footer and what 35 to 40 out? It wasn't an even a close miss.
If it was missed with 5 minutes to go in a nail biter I don't think people would be talking it up as a difficult shot.

[LostDoggy]

Lets get real on where Jarrod is at shall we?

In the words of those in the know. Senior people inside the club, his development to date has been "disappointing", "not as far advanced as we had hoped" "inconsistent" "hopefully he can get there".

For every one of his good games this year I can show 2-3 games that were not upto VFL standard. He had a truely aweful, sub-par run of footy for much of the year. Some of it was apparently due to illness but the work rate and teamwork were simply absent for vast tracks of time in the VFL. If I had been the Willy seniors coach I would have fought hard to drop him. He was bad. Really bad. Bloody aweful in fact.

For the last 4 weeks he has been arguably our best forward at AFL level. He has done some outstanding work. His work rate and efficiency terrific. His team, his coach and the members out here are all rightly lauding him for that period. However. I don't think anyone should be claiming "I always knew he'd get there" or that some of us have unfairly used him as a whipping boy. Yes he's been whipped. He's deserved each and every lash.

We are all delighted for him. He's been playing for his career and he has more than delivered. Before he gets anointed as our next great hope he needs to give us 12 months of the same. 1 season. I don't think that's too much to ask and it's a fairer evaluation than 4-6 weeks. This is the same guy who popped up 3 years ago slamming 6 goals in a game and then vanished. I don't blame him for the disappointment but I'm not going to get sucker punched again.

Finally, and this belongs in a different thread but its a response to some posts a few pages back in this one. Isn't it interesting how many of the players we had on the cusp have been coming through this year. Grant, Wallis, Tutt to name a few. All of whom were sent for considerable periods back to the VFL to work on things identified by the coaching staff. What a great bunch of stories and how coincidental....

[LostDoggy]

Great post SD. He's not the messiah, he's a very confusing boy.

[bornadog]

Great post SD. He's not the messiah, he's a very confusing boy.

One thing I am please with, he is actually coming a bit out of his shell, waving his finger in the air after a goal, high fiving etc. Sounds funny, but to me that means enjoyment and a bit of arrogance. Good players always have that arrogance in them and its great to see he maybe heading that way.

[Scorlibo]

Lets get real on where Jarrod is at shall we?

In the words of those in the know. Senior people inside the club, his development to date has been "disappointing", "not as far advanced as we had hoped" "inconsistent" "hopefully he can get there".

For every one of his good games this year I can show 2-3 games that were not upto VFL standard. He had a truely aweful, sub-par run of footy for much of the year. Some of it was apparently due to illness but the work rate and teamwork were simply absent for vast tracks of time in the VFL. If I had been the Willy seniors coach I would have fought hard to drop him. He was bad. Really bad. Bloody aweful in fact.

For the last 4 weeks he has been arguably our best forward at AFL level. He has done some outstanding work. His work rate and efficiency terrific. His team, his coach and the members out here are all rightly lauding him for that period. However. I don't think anyone should be claiming "I always knew he'd get there" or that some of us have unfairly used him as a whipping boy. Yes he's been whipped. He's deserved each and every lash.

We are all delighted for him. He's been playing for his career and he has more than delivered. Before he gets anointed as our next great hope he needs to give us 12 months of the same. 1 season. I don't think that's too much to ask and it's a fairer evaluation than 4-6 weeks. This is the same guy who popped up 3 years ago slamming 6 goals in a game and then vanished. I don't blame him for the disappointment but I'm not going to get sucker punched again.

Finally, and this belongs in a different thread but its a response to some posts a few pages back in this one. Isn't it interesting how many of the players we had on the cusp have been coming through this year. Grant, Wallis, Tutt to name a few. All of whom were sent for considerable periods back to the VFL to work on things identified by the coaching staff. What a great bunch of stories and how coincidental....

I agree with most of what you've said here on Grant, but I'm still of the belief that he would have produced similar results at AFL level had he been given an opportunity earlier in the year. He's been shown some confidence and that's what's turned it around in my opinion, rather than some miraculous 'click' in his brain.

I don't like the coaching staff being credited mainly because it was pretty clear that he wasn't on an upward trend at Willy. By all reports (and you've said it yourself) he was showing the same sort of form over and over again, with the occasional solid game. The call on woof.net.au was 'give him enough rope, give him a month of senior footy'. I can't recall anyone here at all saying, 'I think he's still in the coaches' plans and there are just a few little things he needs to show in the VFL, which he's slowly improving at'.

Re: Wallis and Tutt...
1. Every year there'll be an emerging player or three from the reserves who you didn't expect to come through and play well.
2. Wallis is now only showing similar to what he showed last year.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree with most of what you've said here on Grant, but I'm still of the belief that he would have produced similar results at AFL level had he been given an opportunity earlier in the year. He's been shown some confidence and that's what's turned it around in my opinion, rather than some miraculous 'click' in his brain.

I don't like the coaching staff being credited mainly because it was pretty clear that he wasn't on an upward trend at Willy. By all reports (and you've said it yourself) he was showing the same sort of form over and over again, with the occasional solid game. The call on woof.net.au was 'give him enough rope, give him a month of senior footy'. I can't recall anyone here at all saying, 'I think he's still in the coaches' plans and there are just a few little things he needs to show in the VFL, which he's slowly improving at'.

Re: Wallis and Tutt...
1. Every year there'll be an emerging player or three from the reserves who you didn't expect to come through and play well.
2. Wallis is now only showing similar to what he showed last year.
Agree.

Although IMO the coaches are paid to make the best strategic decisions on players. If this was the best decision with Jarrad, then that's fine. That's their job, I'm not judging it one way or the other. I'm not critiquing the MC etc, I'm offering qualified support to a bulldogs player playing well.

IMO the credit should go to the player for individual performances. The midfield coach didnt lay 12 tackles and stop Kennedy, Wallis did. The MC haven't got 40 touches, 8 marks and 6.0 in the last two weeks, Jarrad has. When there are individually poor performances, the coaches aren't held responsible for the low individual output.

It's just a matter of my personal philosophy. The coaches can (and should) create the environment of elite performance (and the club generally too), but it's still the fact that the players are the ones who need to perform to highest levels. Environment is one thing, performance is another. And Grant is performing to a high level. So I credit him for doing so.

[Ozza]

So just to check, bulldogtragic, just from reading across a few threads....are you a fan of Jarrad Grant's?

[LostDoggy]

So just to check, bulldogtragic, just from reading across a few threads....are you a fan of Jarrad Grant's?

I just LOL'd... :)

As for the nature vs nurture argument on the coaches impact I would raise the board 1 x Talia improvement, 1 x Roughead improvement and 1 x JJ improvement. It's impossible to prove either way however so let's agree we are all just happy the way so very, very, very many (some would argue statistically relevant many but ok I'll stop now...) of our players are on the up :)

[Scorlibo]

I just LOL'd... :)

As for the nature vs nurture argument on the coaches impact I would raise the board 1 x Talia improvement, 1 x Roughead improvement and 1 x JJ improvement. It's impossible to prove either way however so let's agree we are all just happy the way so very, very, very many (some would argue statistically relevant many but ok I'll stop now...) of our players are on the up :)

I'm more interested in praising the improvement of Griffen and Minson than the younger players who were bound to make improvements anyway.

[LostDoggy]

I'm more interested in praising the improvement of Griffen and Minson than the younger players who were bound to make improvements anyway.

And on this we can happily agree :)

[bulldogtragic]

And on this we can happily agree :)
Yep!!

[chef]

On the right side for a right footer and what 35 to 40 out? It wasn't an even a close miss.
If it was missed with 5 minutes to go in a nail biter I don't think people would be talking it up as a difficult shot.

Tight angle too. Thought he should have ran around Stevie J style instead of trying to kick a drop punt.

[Bulldog4life]

Tight angle too. Thought he should have ran around Stevie J style instead of trying to kick a drop punt.

Actually I have always thought Grant should run around for most of his set shots. I think he would be more effective as the snap is his best kick for goal.

[The Underdog]

Actually I have always thought Grant should run around for most of his set shots. I think he would be more effective as the snap is his best kick for goal.

Agree, I was really surprised he didn't try to go around the body considering what a great snap shot he is, plus the Swans hasn't covered it, so he had heaps of space. He is brilliant around the corner. Has elite hands too. Great to see him performing this way.

[1eyedog]

Actually I have always thought Grant should run around for most of his set shots. I think he would be more effective as the snap is his best kick for goal.

Yes I thought that too. I think this is his natural style he just needs to build his confiodence more.

[immortalmike]

I agree with most of what you've said here on Grant, but I'm still of the belief that he would have produced similar results at AFL level had he been given an opportunity earlier in the year. He's been shown some confidence and that's what's turned it around in my opinion, rather than some miraculous 'click' in his brain.

I don't like the coaching staff being credited mainly because it was pretty clear that he wasn't on an upward trend at Willy. By all reports (and you've said it yourself) he was showing the same sort of form over and over again, with the occasional solid game. The call on woof.net.au was 'give him enough rope, give him a month of senior footy'. I can't recall anyone here at all saying, 'I think he's still in the coaches' plans and there are just a few little things he needs to show in the VFL, which he's slowly improving at'.

Re: Wallis and Tutt...
1. Every year there'll be an emerging player or three from the reserves who you didn't expect to come through and play well.
2. Wallis is now only showing similar to what he showed last year.

Can't agree with the bold. I heard from a few Willy watchers I know that Grant was doing a lot of the team things that are getting him the plaudits he's getting now steadily at VFL level for three or four weeks prior to his senior selection. In fact in a couple of the VFL match reports on the website they said exactly that. He may not have been kicking bags but he was tackling, chasing and laying shepherds.

For what it's worth McCartney also never said he wasn't in his plans either and has always quoted as saying he wanted to give Grant a game earlier in the year but he was apparently struggling with sickness/injury.

I think it's a credit to all involved that Jarrad is playing the way he is not least of all Jarrad himself.

[bulldogtragic]

C'mon Son!!!!

[chef]

Influential .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Grant is on fire! Seriously in form.

[AndrewP6]

Absolutely astounding turnaround by him.

[stefoid]

Very clean off the deck.

[bulldogtragic]

Jarrad Grant 14k 10h 24disp 7m 3 tack 4G 3B 117DT (2nd)

[EasternWest]

Jarrad Grant 14k 10h 24disp 7m 3 tack 4G 3B 117DT (2nd)

Geez, he's like a shark in shallow water at the moment, just looks dangerous anytime he's near it.

[bulldogtragic]

2013 Western Bulldogs Dreamteam Score Per Game Leaders (Minimum 5 Games Played)
Rank Name Games Average
1 Ryan Griffen 17 110.82
2 Matthew Boyd 10 104.80
3 Thomas Liberatore 19 95.11
4 Will Minson 19 91.53
5 Jarrad Grant 5 91.20

[Bulldog4life]

Jarrad has been the missing link that we didn't have earlier in the year. It is no coincidence that his inclusion has corresponded with our teams improved form.

[F'scary]

Go Granty!!! I never doubted you.

[LostDoggy]

Who the heck knew?

Who the heck could possibly have known????

Think I'm moving from his biggest critic to my new favourite player.

Out-standing today as was J Roughead

[Go_Dogs]

Anyone think we may be OK forward next year? Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer will be a pretty dangerous combination.

Grant was great today. Think that was his best game for the club.

[GVGjr]

Anyone think we may be OK forward next year? Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer will be a pretty dangerous combination.

Grant was great today. Think that was his best game for the club.

Yep, we don't need to chase too hard for a tallish forward.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anyone think we may be OK forward next year? Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer will be a pretty dangerous combination.

Grant was great today. Think that was his best game for the club.

I think we need another quality option, be it Crameri, White or whoever.

Jones is still a fair way off where he needs to be. I like Campbell, very good signs in the last two weeks that he can develop into a good player, but still raw.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yep, we don't need to chase too hard for a tallish forward.

Although I agree in a sense, if we had a quality KPF today, we probably would have smacked Carlton by more than what we did (or should have).

We still had ample supply in the third quarter but Jones/Campbell/Minson couldn't take a mark.

I think another quality forward would round us off perfectly. Crameri, Jones, Stringer and Grant would be a great set-up IMO.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How quickly his fortune has changed. A few weeks ago he was almost out the door. Now we may find ourselves having to work to sign him up. No doubt there will be several clubs sniffing to see if they can snare him come season end.

[LostDoggy]

Best tall crumber in the competition?

The only real disappointment was one of his flick passes being pinged for a throw

[Varangian]

Although I agree in a sense, if we had a quality KPF today, we probably would have smacked Carlton by more than what we did (or should have).

We still had ample supply in the third quarter but Jones/Campbell/Minson couldn't take a mark.

I think another quality forward would round us off perfectly. Crameri, Jones, Stringer and Grant would be a great set-up IMO.

Agreed, a Crameri is all we really need. That has the potential to be as good a forward line as I can remember.

[Ghost Dog]

Actually, I don't think it's a bad thing to have our forwards working their guts out, having to work harder for the same opportunities our opponents get - for now.
If we keep it like this, wait until the time is right, then spend the cash, our forward team will be well used to having to scrap for a goal. It's good training.

Grant goes for a ball, and knows he can do it. Liam seems to be playing for frees a bit at times? or is the delivery just poor?

While I loved watching Barry, you could argue ( Sedat is one who has in the past) that his presence, not hurt the development of our young forwards, but perhaps limited their learning opportunities at times.

[Raw Toast]

Best tall crumber in the competition?

Yes! And the best crumber at our club as well. He's now being played in structures that make use of his crumbing as well (finally!).

[LostDoggy]

Actually, I don't think it's a bad thing to have our forwards working their guts out, having to work harder for the same opportunities our opponents get - for now.
If we keep it like this, wait until the time is right, then spend the cash, our forward team will be well used to having to scrap for a goal. It's good training.

Grant goes for a ball, and knows he can do it. Liam seems to be playing for frees a bit at times? or is the delivery just poor?

While I loved watching Barry, you could argue ( Sedat is one who has in the past) that his presence, not hurt the development of our young forwards, but perhaps limited their learning opportunities at times.

Agree. Still want a key forward, but it's perhaps not as critical as we thought?

Grant has earnt a new contract in my view. I still want to see him back it up in Round 1, 2014 before I throw away any doubts, but for the moment he's a man alive.

[Mofra]

Although I agree in a sense, if we had a quality KPF today, we probably would have smacked Carlton by more than what we did (or should have).

We still had ample supply in the third quarter but Jones/Campbell/Minson couldn't take a mark.
Yep - Campbell gets near it but it bounces off his hands. He will be a fantastic Minson replacement in time but he isn't our answer to our need for a KPF.

A quality lead up marking player (ie Crameri) would allow Jones to play closer to goal

[stefoid]

Anyone think we may be OK forward next year? Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer will be a pretty dangerous combination.

Grant was great today. Think that was his best game for the club.

Grant and Stringer both strong in the air and compete very well when the ball hits the ground. Might enable us to have a very tall forwardline overall with only one player being a genuine tall.

I wonder what the average forward line height is in the AFL?

[Scorlibo]

It was interesting in Macca's post-match presser to hear that he's had his 'good days and not so good days coach to player' with Jarrad. Sounds as though it's been just as much a disgruntled/frustrated Grant as it has been a frustrated coach.

I've been saying it for a long time, Grant is a confidence player, he's now playing with confidence, and I applaud the coach for being able to eat his pride in facilitating that shift in mindset.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone think we may be OK forward next year? Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer will be a pretty dangerous combination.



Sorry, I remain unconvinced with Jones. IMO we still need a good tall forward.

On a slightly different note, where does a combo of Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer leave Cordy?

[azabob]

It was interesting in Macca's post-match presser to hear that he's had his 'good days and not so good days coach to player' with Jarrad. Sounds as though it's been just as much a disgruntled/frustrated Grant as it has been a frustrated coach.

I've been saying it for a long time, Grant is a confidence player, he's now playing with confidence, and I applaud the coach for being able to eat his pride in facilitating that shift in mindset.

Very interesting comment, and a really good insite into McCartney. Great to hear that McCartney admit he made a mistake or two in handling of Grant and on the flip side also it appeared Grant recognised that he also made some errors.

After each game Grant has played in McCartney has made the point in saying that Grant is quite popular around the club.

[SonofScray]

It was interesting in Macca's post-match presser to hear that he's had his 'good days and not so good days coach to player' with Jarrad. Sounds as though it's been just as much a disgruntled/frustrated Grant as it has been a frustrated coach.

I've been saying it for a long time, Grant is a confidence player, he's now playing with confidence, and I applaud the coach for being able to eat his pride in facilitating that shift in mindset.

Thats the Leading Teams stuff coming out there. A real, open assessment of their relationship and an ownership of the process and outcomes. That they've reached a point where respect is shared and communication is getting through is a great sign for the Club.

We are the beneficiaries, Jarrad is a joy to watch play well.

[jeemak]

Sorry, I remain unconvinced with Jones. IMO we still need a good tall forward.

On a slightly different note, where does a combo of Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer leave Cordy?

If Cordy produced what Campbell did yesterday some of the vitriol towards him around here would be sickening.

[Ghost Dog]

If Cordy produced what Campbell did yesterday some of the vitriol towards him around here would be sickening.

Disagree. Campbell was very good yesterday compared to his previous performance. For a young player, who's really earmarked for a ruck spot, adapting to a role perhaps not suited to him, forward - Plenty of assists and effort.

[ratsmac]

I had never realised how strong Grant's hands are in a marking contest. He can clunk them. One grab most of the time.

[Greystache]

Sorry, I remain unconvinced with Jones. IMO we still need a good tall forward.

On a slightly different note, where does a combo of Campbell, Jones, Grant and Stringer leave Cordy?

I'm not sure I see Campbell playing that role in the long term. He's a number 1 ruck for me. As for Cordy I just dont see a future for him. He's really a tall winger with poor athleticism, there's just not much to work with.


If Cordy produced what Campbell did yesterday some of the vitriol towards him around here would be sickening.

I don't agree at all with that view. While no one is expecting either of them to dominate games, what we are looking for is some physicality, a contest in the air, bringing the ball down to the crumbers, and at least being a credible threat to Mark. Campbell did those things and Cordy doesn't. Campbell was anything but dominant, but Cordy by and large is irrelevant when he plays.

[jeemak]

Fair enough. I thought he was relatively ineffective, though I didn't see his first give to Grant early which resulted in a goal. Due to his sheer size and strength I'd expect him to at least bring the ball to ground, and perhaps with 70 inside 50's he could have been a little more likely to take a few marks (though, irrespective of our dominance yesterday we still struggled to get the ball to our forwards cleanly).

My remarks were more a commentary of the difference in expectations certain supporters place on particular players versus others (severity of opinions are normally exacerbated by the match result, of course). I'm not suggesting Campbell deserves vitriol, or for his experience should have produced a great deal more than he did.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Campbell competed well for mine, but it's obvious he's well behind in terms of endurance/fitness. He faded badly in the second half and could hardly run out of the game. Not surprisingly though, ruckmen do take a lot longer to develop in all areas of the game.

He's tracking along pretty well -- he has improved a lot since earlier in the year.

[KT31]

Campbell competed well for mine, but it's obvious he's well behind in terms of endurance/fitness. He faded badly in the second half and could hardly run out of the game. Not surprisingly though, ruckmen do take a lot longer to develop in all areas of the game.

He's tracking along pretty well -- he has improved a lot since earlier in the year.

IMO Campbell's has shown more improvement than Cordy and has gone passed him in the pecking order.
If he keeps on improving at the rate he has in the last twelve months, we will have a fair player on our hands.

[Dancin' Douggy]

IMO Campbell's has shown more improvement than Cordy and has gone passed him in the pecking order.
If he keeps on improving at the rate he has in the last twelve months, we will have a fair player on our hands.

Yep I'd have Campbell over Cordy without question.

[Mofra]

Campbell competed well for mine, but it's obvious he's well behind in terms of endurance/fitness. He faded badly in the second half and could hardly run out of the game. Not surprisingly though, ruckmen do take a lot longer to develop in all areas of the game.
To be fair to Campbell, he was half-consussed. Most players woudl have been on the stretcher after whacking the goal post that hard.

I'm a Cordy fan and think people have been far too hard on the kid, but Campbell is a no 1 ruck first and foremost and despite not even looking like taking a mark he did his bit for the team, competed well and actually looked fairly agile for his size on more than one occasion.

[jeemak]

To be fair to Campbell, he was half-consussed. Most players woudl have been on the stretcher after whacking the goal post that hard.

I'm a Cordy fan and think people have been far too hard on the kid, but Campbell is a no 1 ruck first and foremost and despite not even looking like taking a mark he did his bit for the team, competed well and actually looked fairly agile for his size on more than one occasion.

This was something I noticed, and was a little surprised by atcually. There's a lot to work with.

[bornadog]

6QDsanfcdxg&feature=share&list=UUCYdpsLzNPQpmOdZt_a7DNA

[KT31]

6QDsanfcdxg&feature=share&list=UUCYdpsLzNPQpmOdZt_a7DNA

Grant has really become a revelation since coming into the side, he adds the quality we have been missing since Johnno retired.
Great to see Campbell feature in his first two goals and really like the big mans improvement as well.

[Varangian]

Good trade bait anyone? :D

[Maddog37]

For the right price.....

[Varangian]

For the right price.....

Interesting comment, so what is the right price?

I would have thought he was a keeper now given his form over the past 5 weeks and my comment was directed at the large number of posters who stated he would be delisted by seasons end. I guess everyone has their price and Jarrad's has gone up exponentially this month.

[stefoid]

He will get extra defensive attention now. Will be interesting to see how he finishes the year.

[G-Mo77]

He will get extra defensive attention now. Will be interesting to see how he finishes the year.

He will which in turn frees up another one of our forwards. We've been crying out for someone to relieve a bit of pressure of Jones, it's would then be up to him to expose a weaker defender. Jones got Bootsma for a bit there on Saturday night and really didn't capitalise.

[Varangian]

He will which in turn frees up another one of our forwards. We've been crying out for someone to relieve a bit of pressure of Jones, it's would then be up to him to expose a weaker defender. Jones got Bootsma for a bit there on Saturday night and really didn't capitalise.

I don't think it will free up another forward or our forward line but what his form will do is force opposition strategists to put a better player on him, one that applies good defensive pressure but also has the capacity to hurt the other way. I don't think you'd be inclined to remove the defender who is playing on Jones and put him on Grant. Jones will have a match up, maybe two options, but the opposition strategists may need 3-4 options for Grant now.

This will make Grant more accountable. The real benefit for us is that he is hard to match up on because of his marking ability and pace.

[chef]

For the right price.....

NO..

[Maddog37]

What about for Nicnat?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll never get tired of watching that fourth goal v Carlton. Such an exciting piece of play and a tremendous reaction from the crowd.

[Dry Rot]

What about for Nicnat?

I raise you his team mate Kennedy

[Scorlibo]

I raise you his team mate Kennedy

You'd take Nic Nat over Josh J every time.

[Greystache]

You'd take Nic Nat over Josh J every time.

I certainly wouldn't.

[chef]

I certainly wouldn't.

Me neither.

[The Underdog]

I certainly wouldn't.


Me neither.

I'll third that. Especially for our team right now. But in general too.

[bornadog]

You'd take Nic Nat over Josh J every time.

Yes I would, he is a freak and much more versatile than JK.

[azabob]

Yes I would, he is a freak and much more versatile than JK.

So you would swap Grant for Nic Nat?

[always right]

So you would swap Grant for Nic Nat?

In a heartbeat. Sorry Jarrad:o

[bornadog]

So you would swap Grant for Nic Nat?

sorry,I only meant Nic Nat is better than JK. I should read the thread properly:o

[Scorlibo]

I certainly wouldn't.

Me neither.

I'll third that. Especially for our team right now. But in general too.

Interesting. For mine, Nic Nat is one of the very best players in the competition when fit, and is underrated because everyone only recognises the flashy things. His contested ball winning and defensive pressure are second to none. Add to that he's 3 years younger than Josh J and an instant cult figure/marketing goldmine. He would net 2 first round picks on the trade table, Josh J only one - I'd bet you any money.

[azabob]

Interesting. For mine, Nic Nat is one of the very best players in the competition when fit, and is underrated because everyone only recognises the flashy things. His contested ball winning and defensive pressure are second to none. Add to that he's 3 years younger than Josh J and an instant cult figure/marketing goldmine. He would net 2 first round picks on the trade table, Josh J only one - I'd bet you any money.

Why are you calling him Josh J?

[westdog54]

Why are you calling him Josh J?

There's two Josh Kennedy's in the League. West Coast's version has a middle initial of J, and as such is known as Josh J Kennedy on all AFL stats.

[Cyberdoggie]

If Nic Nat couldn't play in the ruck he would probably be an excellent forward as well.

You would be mad not to pick Natanui. He is the most versatile player in the league, the best to watch and when on song can be one of the most damaging.

[westdog54]

If Nic Nat couldn't play in the ruck he would probably be an excellent forward as well.

You would be mad not to pick Natanui. He is the most versatile player in the league, the best to watch and when on song can be one of the most damaging.

Agree.

When people think of him, they think of the Fijian kid who can jump a mile in the air and can do all of the flashy stuff, which, in reality, is an insult to the talent he has. In addition to the leap he has fantastic hands and barely drops a mark, and the flashy stuff is complimented by his execution of the fundamentals.

Wonderful, wonderful talent.

[Hot_Doggies]

Agree.

When people think of him, they think of the Fijian kid who can jump a mile in the air and can do all of the flashy stuff, which, in reality, is an insult to the talent he has. In addition to the leap he has fantastic hands and barely drops a mark, and the flashy stuff is complimented by his execution of the fundamentals.

Wonderful, wonderful talent.

Not so sure about that. For every 'specky', he drops five easy ones.

[F'scary]

I'm sticking with Grant. On current form - playing exactly the way they would have hoped when they used pick 5 those 4 odd years ago.

My recruiting KISS principle: you keep your keepers, no matter who is on the market from other clubs. The downside risk is too great. There is also a negative message for the whole list. Keep the trading on our side to guys who don't fit in, there are too many of or who haven't shown enough.

[1eyedog]

The problem with NicNat is consistency. You would think that will develop with experience.

Right now, I'd take Kennedy.

[bulldogtragic]

2013 AFL Statistical Rankings: Jarrad Grant:

Ranked 2nd in Goal Assists Per Game
Ranked 10th in Goals Per Game
Ranked 16th in Marks Inside 50 Per Game


Not bad for whole of comp stats :)

[The Underdog]

2013 AFL Statistical Rankings: Jarrad Grant:

Ranked 2nd in Goal Assists Per Game
Ranked 10th in Goals Per Game
Ranked 16th in Marks Inside 50 Per Game


Not bad for whole of comp stats :)

Very impressive over that span. Still pretty close to the realm of small sample size over five games, but impressive nonetheless. (Off topic, I'm not sure at what point in AFL that stats become truly indicative. AFL Player Ratings uses a full 22 games to rate players which makes sense I guess but I have some trouble with that, especially considering the 6 month break in the middle of that for most of a season. Not sure what is and isn't an arbitrary end point when rating players like this. Proper stats geeks might be able to answer more clearly, if indeed I'm making any sense)

Grant has completely transformed our forward line in the last five weeks and only seems to be getting better. Here's hoping he keeps it up. He's a joy to watch.

[bulldogtragic]

Not a flashy game today, but I thought he was better than the stats. Plus Talia did well.

12 Disposals (4 contested) 75 effective
4 Marks (1 cont, 2 inside 50)
1 Clearance
4 Tackles (only Stevens, Wallis and Libba had more)
2 Inside 50's
3 Goal Assist (Team High) - plus his running, I.e., when he saw Wallis free inside 50 in the last he ran away taking defenders allowing Wallis a mark and goal. And setting up another two goals from the wing.

He won't get votes, but I thought he played a great team game.

[GVGjr]

He won't get votes, but I thought he played a great team game.

He's going to cop better opponents now and that's exactly what we need from him when it's tough. No votes but he more than did his job.

[mighty_west]

He's going to cop better opponents now and that's exactly what we need from him when it's tough. No votes but he more than did his job.

Not having Jones out there allowed the Crows to put extra attention into Grant, thought he did well considering.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I was pleased with Grant's performance, he was a good contributor and did the 1%ers really well. He had a hand in some very key passages of play too.

[Mofra]

Talia played pretty this week - Grant is now set the challenge to play on some legitimate 2nd KP backmen. Not many kids in the AFL match up as well on Stinger as Talia does.

[LostDoggy]

Talia played really well, I think Grant's effort was still there, he made a courageous spoiling attempt and tried to get involved with second and third efforts but Talia gloved him.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Not in the votes , yet probably still a another step forward. He stayed competitive, did the 1%ers and importantly his head stayed focused and in the game, and when his moment to get involved came along whether it be a tackle, pressure act or goal assist, he took it.
Well done.

[Hotdog60]

Pre match interview with Macca indicated that Grant was given a chance to play for his career and he said the penny dropped.

[SonofScray]

Not a flashy game today, but I thought he was better than the stats. Plus Talia did well.

12 Disposals (4 contested) 75 effective
4 Marks (1 cont, 2 inside 50)
1 Clearance
4 Tackles (only Stevens, Wallis and Libba had more)
2 Inside 50's
3 Goal Assist (Team High) - plus his running, I.e., when he saw Wallis free inside 50 in the last he ran away taking defenders allowing Wallis a mark and goal. And setting up another two goals from the wing.

He won't get votes, but I thought he played a great team game.

Amen. Did the work, didn't get the reward in the same fashion that he has of late but by no means does that detract from his current form. The scenario match up wise and team selection wise probably wasn't favourable to his game but that he still contributed and played a role is equally as important as his 4 goal game last week.

Macca essentially said as much in a presser, that he needs to bring the work rate and attitude to the game no matter what is asked of him and where he is on the field. It comes naturally when there is a goal to be kicked, it is coming more naturally in adverse situations. We have a player in Grant.

[LostDoggy]

Like Griff, he was rather well-held but still contributed just fine.

[bornadog]

Grant is not a KPP and should not be played that way. We need another big body in the forward line.

[The Underdog]

I thought he was ok, fought on despite being beaten which is as much proof of his improvement as anything.
He's no Tory Dickson though :p

[westdog54]

At the end of the day, only one of our forwards is going to get the opposition's best defender any given week. This week it happened to be Grant and rightly so.

Its then up to the rest of the forward line to capitalise, and to Campbell's credit that's exactly what we did.

Its all about building an entire forward line, which I think we're doing a splendid job of at the moment.

[EasternWest]

I was just happy to see that he kept his head, and his workrate, up when things weren't necessarily going his way. It's a good sign of maturity.

[LostDoggy]

I was just happy to see that he kept his head, and his workrate, up when things weren't necessarily going his way. It's a good sign of maturity.

Hopefully supporters can do likewise. :)

[Ozza]

Hopefully supporters can do likewise. :)

The supporters sitting near me certainly didn't 'keep their heads' during the 3rd Quarter!!!

After 5 enjoyable weeks - plenty around were very quick to launch into a few players and the game style!