Jarrad Grant?

[BulldogBelle]

The supporters sitting near me certainly didn't 'keep their heads' during the 3rd Quarter!!!

After 5 enjoyable weeks - plenty around were very quick to launch into a few players and the game style!

There was some banter of the Richmond variety yesterday, which was disappointing.

[LostDoggy]

The supporters sitting near me certainly didn't 'keep their heads' during the 3rd Quarter!!!

After 5 enjoyable weeks - plenty around were very quick to launch into a few players and the game style!

Disclaimer: I turned on Dickson. Felt bad later.

[azabob]

Disclaimer: I turned on Dickson. Felt bad later.

By turning, what do you mean?

[westdog54]

By turning, what do you mean?

Believe he may have called for Dickson to be subbed at one point, IIRC

[chef]

By turning, what do you mean?

Yeah, I wasn't sure either:D

Not that theres anything wrong with that.

[LostDoggy]

By turning, what do you mean?


Believe he may have called for Dickson to be subbed at one point, IIRC

Yeah, I really ripped into him. First time I've really let loose on a player at the game all season.

[LostDoggy]

I described a handball from Dickson to murphy as the worst handball of all time personally.

[Go_Dogs]

I described a handball from Dickson to murphy as the worst handball of all time personally.

Both players need to take the blame for that one though, Murph should've known how hot he was and although it's hard to tell I'm guessing he called for the handball as he came scooting past.

[Go_Dogs]

Just on Grant, anyone get the feeling that although Jones probably needed a week to go back and kick some goals, that there was also a bit of let's see how Granty does when he has to play on a very good opponent with one less big body in the forward line - and see how he reacts in a tougher circumstance than what's he's had the last few weeks?

[jeemak]

Just on Grant, anyone get the feeling that although Jones probably needed a week to go back and kick some goals, that there was also a bit of let's see how Granty does when he has to play on a very good opponent with one less big body in the forward line - and see how he reacts in a tougher circumstance than what's he's had the last few weeks?

Maybe.

I'd be inclined to think however, that the lesson was aimed at Jones rather than Grant. The MC has demonstrated to him the team can function and score goals without him in the side, and that he'll have to work his arse off to get back in.

Will be interesting to see if he's picked again this year.

[SonofScray]

Just on Grant, anyone get the feeling that although Jones probably needed a week to go back and kick some goals, that there was also a bit of let's see how Granty does when he has to play on a very good opponent with one less big body in the forward line - and see how he reacts in a tougher circumstance than what's he's had the last few weeks?

I thought that when reading the selections. That in a learning side they might be throwing him to the wolves a bit, to see what else he might turn up. The forward structure certainly wasn't set up for his natural game IMO. Its a long bow to draw though, that it was deliberate so I left my thoughts at that.

His pressure acts and running were still top notch on a down day relative to recent form. Very promising.

[bulldogtragic]

Not too many AFL players could have kicked 'that' goal.

Freak.

[Scorlibo]

Not too many AFL players could have kicked 'that' goal.

Freak.

It's absurd the amount of frees he should have had, in that contest and more. Loved the shove after he kicked it.

[SonofScray]

It's absurd the amount of frees he should have had, in that contest and more. Loved the shove after he kicked it.

That was pretty special. On the whole I thought today was an ordinary game for him, showed elite hand passing skills and ran hard most of the day for little reward. Just want to see him hit the scoreboard more and get the rewards for his defensive efforts.

Exciting times for him this summer as he builds up his fitness and hopefully heads into 2014 flying and full of pep in his step.

[LostDoggy]

I erupted. My individual goal of the year. Probably seven free kicks, pivots getting dragged down and stilll managed to snap it from a tight angle.

His flick-ball in the first quarter to Picken (out on the full) was his best yet. Watch it closely if you get the chance.

[azabob]

Has anyone heard where the whole contract situation is up to?

My latest understanding, we offered one, he wants 2 and now he is option to other clubs.

[bulldogtragic]

Has anyone heard where the whole contract situation is up to?

My latest understanding, we offered one, he wants 2 and now he is option to other clubs.
Not sure, but spider senses are saying this is a strategy to see what we could get for him.

[jeemak]

Not sure, but spider senses are saying this is a strategy to see what we could get for him.

Potentially.

It could also be a strategy to reduce financial terms across two years depending on how things look to be shaping up pre-trade.

Depending on who we think we might pick up, or who we might need to keep Grant's contract could be a secondary concern.

He hasn't necessarily demonstrated a requirement to be our number one priority, irrespective of his recent surge in form.

[F'scary]

I am worried that Grant could be traded to Syria...sorry, the Bombers...errr Essendon.

Not so much that we lose him but for his personal well being.

The first thing they will want to do is...bulk him up :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-08/jarrads-wish-not-yet-granted



OUT-OF-contract Western Bulldog Jarrad Grant will meet with club officials on Tuesday to negotiate his playing future.

The forward played just eight games in 2013, but kicked 13 goals, including one haul of four goals, and two bags of three.

Grant spent most of the season toiling in the VFL for Williamstown, but was given a chance in the senior side in the latter stages of the year.

In those games he produced some strong form, earning him a contract offer from the Bulldogs.

The contract is believed to be a one-year deal, but Grant is pushing for the security of two years.

His manager Anthony McConville confirmed the timing of the meeting to AFL.com.au.

"He's out of contract at the moment and we have a meeting with the Bulldogs today … and we'll know more beyond that I suppose," McConville said on Tuesday.

"We're still having discussions with the Bulldogs. They have offered us a contract and we will work through that and decisions will be made thereafter."
Grant was selected with pick five in the 2007 NAB AFL Draft, and has played 58 games since his debut in 2009.

[The Underdog]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-08/jarrads-wish-not-yet-granted



OUT-OF-contract Western Bulldog Jarrad Grant will meet with club officials on Tuesday to negotiate his playing future.

The forward played just eight games in 2013, but kicked 13 goals, including one haul of four goals, and two bags of three.

Grant spent most of the season toiling in the VFL for Williamstown, but was given a chance in the senior side in the latter stages of the year.

In those games he produced some strong form, earning him a contract offer from the Bulldogs.

The contract is believed to be a one-year deal, but Grant is pushing for the security of two years.

His manager Anthony McConville confirmed the timing of the meeting to AFL.com.au.

"He's out of contract at the moment and we have a meeting with the Bulldogs today … and we'll know more beyond that I suppose," McConville said on Tuesday.

"We're still having discussions with the Bulldogs. They have offered us a contract and we will work through that and decisions will be made thereafter."
Grant was selected with pick five in the 2007 NAB AFL Draft, and has played 58 games since his debut in 2009.

I've got a bad feeling that this is going to go south. Understand the stances of both sides, but hope it isn't a tactic from Grant to get somewhere else.

[1eyedog]

After all the patience and hard work why wouldn't we just offer him a 2 year deal. This is one of the less impressive decisions by JMAC et.al. if you ask me. He is the only player of his type at our club and he showed more improvement and appetite for the contest towards the latter half of the year than 50% of the other blokes in the side, seriously!

He simply makes us look venomous up forward, he is entertaining and I believe he is the type of player that people come to the footy to see. He is young and must surely be in our plans going forward. Unless we get a super deal for him that helps us land a bigger fish he stays.

[Greystache]

Perhaps the club understands his personality and know if they give him a 2 year deal based on a few good games at the end his contract he'll cruise through next year and it will be another write off.

[Happy Days]

SIGN HIM FOR *!*!*!*!s SAKE

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YESTERDAY

Seeiously, we give the guy one last chance to save his career, he does, and then we contemplate scrapping him anyway? Over one year extra? Why is this happening?!

[The Underdog]

SIGN HIM FOR F**** SAKE

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YESTERDAY

Seeiously, we give the guy one last chance to save his career, he does, and then we contemplate scrapping him anyway? Over one year extra? Why is this happening?!

Not sure offering him a contract is scrapping him.

[Hotdog60]

I think the club want's to tread lightly because he went off the boil for a couple of years. I think if they said let's start with one year with a 2 year extension at the end of next year if both parties are happy.

[mighty_west]

Perhaps the club understands his personality and know if they give him a 2 year deal based on a few good games at the end his contract he'll cruise through next year and it will be another write off.

I can understand the club thinking that way but at the same time I really believe the penny has dropped for Granty, what he displayed in the last 2 months is enough for me to think he finally understands what is required, given his big upside along with an improving Stringer and Jones, throw Crameri in there, pretty exciting.

[chef]

Perhaps the club understands his personality and know if they give him a 2 year deal based on a few good games at the end his contract he'll cruise through next year and it will be another write off.

Yep, thats what I was thinking too. Seems to play his best footy when his contract is about to run out.

[Happy Days]

Not sure offering him a contract is scrapping him.

I get the distinct feeling that we may shop him

[Greystache]

I can understand the club thinking that way but at the same time I really believe the penny has dropped for Granty, what he displayed in the last 2 months is enough for me to think he finally understands what is required, given his big upside along with an improving Stringer and Jones, throw Crameri in there, pretty exciting.

I'm sure everyone involved hopes it has, but I don't see any issue with the club putting it on Grant to prove it by giving him a one year extension. If he really believed he was ready to take the next step he'd want a one year deal safe in the knowledge his extension next year will be far more lucrative.

Pushing back so hard to get a second year on minimal money sounds to me like a guy who just wants a job.

[Mofra]

I get the distinct feeling that we may shop him
That's what it sounds like - he'll be happier to move somewhere with the security of a 2 year deal, as any other club will give him that.

We gave Mulligan 3 years FFS - 2 years to Grant shouldn't be a problem.

[Greystache]

We gave Mulligan 3 years FFS - 2 years to Grant shouldn't be a problem.

We gave Mulligan 3 years as a 20 year old who'd been on the list 12 months. Grant is 24, has been on the list 6 years, and is still a fringe player. The two aren't comparable.

Surely not every list management decision forever and a day needs to be measured against one rookie listed players extension.

[Scorlibo]

Given his form turnaround was largely a case of the coaches showing some confidence in his ability it surprises me that they would stop short of showing faith now.

[Scorlibo]

I'm sure everyone involved hopes it has, but I don't see any issue with the club putting it on Grant to prove it by giving him a one year extension. If he really believed he was ready to take the next step he'd want a one year deal safe in the knowledge his extension next year will be far more lucrative.

Pushing back so hard to get a second year on minimal money sounds to me like a guy who just wants a job.

Of course it does, there are many unknowns in football, any number of things could happen and it's perfectly natural for him to want job security.

[LostDoggy]

Difference between Grant and Mulligan is that Grant had talent.

Interesting to know whether it was a one year with an option/trigger for a second, or just a flat one year.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought this a while back, but it's still disappointing.

I know we are caught up in the great finish and think the best of everything and everyone, but I don't agree with this one.

[mighty_west]

We gave Mulligan 3 years FFS

One of the most extraudinary decisions our club has ever made.

[The Underdog]

I get the distinct feeling that we may shop him

I've had that feeling for a while. Also wouldn't be surprised if he's shopping himself. I'd offer him 2 with some incentive based cash, but I'm not going to judge him or the club without knowing the facts.

[strebla]

I've had that feeling for a while. Also wouldn't be surprised if he's shopping himself. I'd offer him 2 with some incentive based cash, but I'm not going to judge him or the club without knowing the facts.

I am happy with one year and a two year option (two birds one stone) win win both ways IMHO.

[DISHLICKERS]

Tough one without knowing all the facts. Seems coach showed faith in him and was patient and confident he would come around, so hard to see why you would stop now.

For me he is a keep provided $ are not over the top I think 2 years is okay if thats the sticking point.

I say he is a keep because his speed and hands create problems for defenders. Jones, Campbell, Cramieri?, Stringer and Grant would be a tough gig for any opposition. Grant adds something unique.

[Mofra]

We gave Mulligan 3 years as a 20 year old who'd been on the list 12 months. Grant is 24, has been on the list 6 years, and is still a fringe player. The two aren't comparable.

Surely not every list management decision forever and a day needs to be measured against one rookie listed players extension.
It's about context - Grant has shown he has the skills to be an AFL footballer and by all accounts a lot of work was put into him this year. 2 years is not unreasonable, and if I was in his position I'd certainly be questioning my place at the club considering we are offering 4 years to Crameri.

No, I'm not suggesting we base "every list management decision forever and a day" on Crameri's extension either, nor did I state we should do that for Mulligan (not sure where you got that from).

[LostDoggy]

We've gotta remember that one-year is just the starting point from the Club's point of view. Macca's talked about how loved he is around the place and what a big impact he made in the second half of the season. No doubt he'll be resigned by the end of the day.

[1eyedog]

We've gotta remember that one-year is just the starting point from the Club's point of view. Macca's talked about how loved he is around the place and what a big impact he made in the second half of the season. No doubt he'll be resigned by the end of the day.

If that's the case he should be re-signed for two years now. Unless the club has already ear-marked him for trade there is the very real prospect of losing him for not much if he is disgruntled by the contract negotiations and wants to go, which would be unfortunate. For mine, I wouldn't blame him.

[LostDoggy]

If that's the case he should be re-signed for two years now. Unless the club has already ear-marked him for trade there is the very real prospect of losing him for not much if he is disgruntled by the contract negotiations and wants to go, which would be unfortunate. For mine, I wouldn't blame him.

doesn't he become a free agent in 2 years' time? Maybe the club is worried they might lose him for nothing to a Melbourne based club in its premiership window at the end of a 2 year deal.

[Maddog37]

We could increase his contract length from two to three or four at the end of the year if he performs though which would mitigate the risk.

[LostDoggy]

We could increase his contract length from two to three or four at the end of the year if he performs though which would mitigate the risk.

Unless he agrees a FA deal 12-months in advance like Franklin.

[LostDoggy]

Totally comfortable - he's played 6 good games in 2 years. Really glad we are acting like a responsible business nowadays. Gifting no-one anything. If he performs well
this year he gets a second year. We've shown faith for 6 years. 6 years on our list. He needs to return that faith for 1 year and then both parties move forward together. Not that big an ask for our club to make.

[Mantis]

I hope we can come to a deal because I think he adds a fair bit to our team when played in a suitable role.. and with the right mix of players around him.

I know it's good to play hard-ball, but he can just as easily walk away for nothing if we don't come to the party.

And times have certainly changed to when we gave Williams, Mulligan & Cordy 3 year deals. :eek:

[KT31]

I hope we can come to a deal because I think he adds a fair bit to our team when played in a suitable role.. and with the right mix of players around him.

I know it's good to play hard-ball, but he can just as easily walk away for nothing if we don't come to the party.

And times have certainly changed to when we gave Williams, Mulligan & Cordy 3 year deals. :eek:

And didn't they need too, couple of the most baffling and terrible decisions we have made.
Can understand the one but two years would sit well with me.

[Ghost Dog]

It's about context - Grant has shown he has the skills to be an AFL footballer and by all accounts a lot of work was put into him this year. 2 years is not unreasonable, and if I was in his position I'd certainly be questioning my place at the club considering we are offering 4 years to Crameri.

No, I'm not suggesting we base "every list management decision forever and a day" on Crameri's extension either, nor did I state we should do that for Mulligan (not sure where you got that from).

Yeah but you have to pay overs to get guys to move bases these days. I thought Monfries was given the silverwear when port offered him 4 years. Looks ok now.
Times have changed a bit. A 2 year contract in the 80's is a 1.5 year contract now as the players are required to be that much more professional, commit themselves pretty much all year round and so forth.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I hope we can come to a deal because I think he adds a fair bit to our team when played in a suitable role.. and with the right mix of players around him.

I know it's good to play hard-ball, but he can just as easily walk away for nothing if we don't come to the party.

And times have certainly changed to when we gave Williams, Mulligan & Cordy 3 year deals. :eek:

Player Managers have enormous clout these days and it is reasonable to suggest that Grant can be offered a two year contract elsewhere. Macca deserves a lot of credit for turning his career around last year and you could sense his disappointment to lose him particularly given our dearth of quality forwards. Grant's league career has been one of extreme disappointment save for his good form from midway through 2013. He does owe the Western Bulldogs something but loyalty doesn't count for these days.

[LostDoggy]

And didn't they need too, couple of the most baffling and terrible decisions we have made.
Can understand the one but two years would sit well with me.

Think it has to be 1 year to protect our position in his free agency year. If he goes on with it we want to be able to offer a 3 year deal at the end of year 7; not year 8. If its year 7 and he's become great suddenly we get better bargaining power to trade if he wants to go. If its the end of year 8, we match the other offer or we lose him for a compo pick. It makes perfect sense his agent is fighting for 2 and it makes more sence to pay overs if needs be to make sure it's 1. Plus we may be waiting to see how much we need to front load Crameri if we feel there's a good chance we need to take the PSD route. No rush I say.

[Hot_Doggies]

Think it has to be 1 year to protect our position in his free agency year. If he goes on with it we want to be able to offer a 3 year deal at the end of year 7; not year 8. If its year 7 and he's become great suddenly we get better bargaining power to trade if he wants to go. If its the end of year 8, we match the other offer or we lose him for a compo pick. It makes perfect sense his agent is fighting for 2 and it makes more sence to pay overs if needs be to make sure it's 1. Plus we may be waiting to see how much we need to front load Crameri if we feel there's a good chance we need to take the PSD route. No rush I say.

Grant and free agency?? "Hold the phone Blocka!!!"

He was playing VFL reserves 12 weeks ago.

One year deal seems about right, I know what my boss would say if I had Grants track record.

[Ghost Dog]

Grant and free agency?? "Hold the phone Blocka!!!"

He was playing VFL reserves 12 weeks ago.

One year deal seems about right, I know what my boss would say if I had Grants track record.

Am I mistaken in that his form wasn't that bad, but he was kept down as a deliberate ploy to ensure he did the little things right?

[1eyedog]

doesn't he become a free agent in 2 years' time? Maybe the club is worried they might lose him for nothing to a Melbourne based club in its premiership window at the end of a 2 year deal.

Restricted free agent yes and really do we need to be worrying about losing him to another club in 2 years? If they want to stump up the cash for him we have the opportunity to match it and if he is getting big offers then it means he has been very good for us these past two years and we'll probably match it - especially as you say if we are in a premiership window.

[ledge]

No word yet ?

[LostDoggy]

I think restricted applies only to your top 10 players. Grant is nowhere near top 10 so will be unrestricted in 2 years.

[azabob]

I think restricted applies only to your top 10 players. Grant is nowhere near top 10 so will be unrestricted in 2 years.

Isn't it to do with the length of time they have played with the club?

[divvydan]

After 8 seasons when a player first comes out of contract (could be 8, 9, 10 etc) then they're a restricted FA if their wage was in the top 25% of the list, otherwise they're unrestricted. When a player comes out of contract after 10 years and has been out of contract once already after 8 years, then they're uncontracted no matter what.


On Grant, my preference would be for one season with the option of a second one if he meets certain criteria, ideally those would be something he could meet by around half way through the season. Maybe based on training (preseason) and games/indexes which give keep him motivated.

He had a really good patch when he came into the side but he did drop off right near the end of the year, so I still don't have the confidence in him that he can perform over a long period. I don't really see him getting much attention from other clubs and would probably need to go to GWS or similar to get a decent contract and guaranteed playing time.

If Crameri does come to the club, he would need to show he can function well in the same forwardline. Either way, I don't think he deserves a 2 year deal.

[LostDoggy]

Isn't it to do with the length of time they have played with the club?

Divvydan answered the question. Players outside of the top 10 (by Salary) become unrestricted in their 8th year (if out of contract).
Addison is an example. He was drafted in 2005 and this is his 8th year.
If Addison was a 10 ten player, he would be a restricted free agent.
Since he is not, he is actually an unrestricted free agent.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Grant is the player being offered to Brisbane for Docherty.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lions-weigh-up-trade-for-dogs-grant-20131009-2v8qn.html

[bulldogtragic]

I like Docherty. I love Grant.

[soupman]

I trust Emma Quayle more than the herald sun rumours but at any point does she refer to a source. I'd be dissapointed if we did trade Grant, I think he could still be a very dangerous player for us.

[SonofScray]

Grant is the player being offered to Brisbane for Docherty.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lions-weigh-up-trade-for-dogs-grant-20131009-2v8qn.html

I'd be sad to see him go. My feeling is that he has worked hard to address the gaps in his game, has a skill set which we probably undervalue and when in the right system is a very dangerous forward. I enjoy watching him play the game.

I'd be keeping him if we can't lock Crameri away as a certainty, at least. We just don't have enough blokes that can kick a goal without busting their nut for it every time.

[The Coon Dog]

Certainly no mention from Emma that it is something we or Brisbane have discussed.

[stefoid]

Where is the 'how the @#$@# would I know - its Jarrad Grant we're talking about here?' option.

thats the one I chose

[jeemak]

I'm glad we've offered a one year deal with a trigger for a second on games played. It seems like a reasonable incentive for Grant to aspire towards and provides us with cover.

If we think Docherty is a better player for us long term than Grant then I'm happy for us to move the latter on.

My preference was always to see Grant be the player he could be for us. If we are compensated well for him, so be it, we move on. He's already struggled through half a career, and for mine he's just likely to struggle through the second half as much as he's likely to excel through it. Irrespective of his potential.

[Greystache]

This answers a few questions people had on the club's approach to Grant.


The 24-year-old has been offered a one-year contract extension by the Dogs, but it is understood that deal includes a games-played incentive clause that would trigger a second season

I'm happy with that strategy personally.

[jeemak]

This answers a few questions people had on the club's approach to Grant.



I'm happy with that strategy personally.

So am I, as I've said in the above post.

Games played would be contingent on injury potentially.

[LostDoggy]

I love what Granty was able to bring to the table late in the year. Do I think he can do it consistently? Remains to be seen but I personally won't be happy if we trade him. I'll admit to knowing absolutely nothing about the kid from Brisbane.

[mighty_west]

I'm glad we've offered a one year deal with a trigger for a second on games played. It seems like a reasonable incentive for Grant to aspire towards and provides us with cover.

If we think Docherty is a better player for us long term than Grant then I'm happy for us to move the latter on.



Agree on both, I would have been happy to give Grant a straight up 2 year contract but this insensitive based deal seems a far more responsible one from the clubs point of view.

We just have to back the club in with this potential Docherty deal and there is no doubt we definitely need this type of player in the squad, young with a few years of development in him so just about ready to go and highly rated.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I remember saying at some point mid season we need to play Grant for the rest of the year, even if only to increase his trade currency.

We did, and we have.

So now do we trade him?
His stocks may never be this high again.

Mid season he was probably earmarked as a straight delisting by a lot of us.

Now we can trade him for a 19 year old taken at pick 12.
A skilful, fast fast rebounding defender.

Seems like a no brainer.

BUT................... #$@%$ HE WAS GOOD!

[turtle]

Grant is in the right age bracket, he knows what he needs to do to make an impact, has the support of the coach and when part of the broader forward line is a nightmare matchup & one of our few x-factors. I hope that we keep him.

[LostDoggy]

Grant is in the right age bracket, he knows what he needs to do to make an impact, has the support of the coach and when part of the broader forward line is a nightmare matchup & one of our few x-factors. I hope that we keep him.

This ^

[w3design]

Agree on both, I would have been happy to give Grant a straight up 2 year contract but this insensitive based deal seems a far more responsible one from the clubs point of view.

We just have to back the club in with this potential Docherty deal and there is no doubt we definitely need this type of player in the squad, young with a few years of development in him so just about ready to go and highly rated.

Yep, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.;)

[robb]

As far as I am concerned I think Grant is a classic Ecker.

[Happy Days]

This sucks.

What exactly has Docherty done apart from being drafted early to convince anyone that he is any good? Has he shown any elite traits at AFL level?

I thought the whole point of trading for Crameri was to create a mid sized legion of doom? What of those plans if Grant goes?

Anyone remember how terrible our forward line was before Grant came in?

[Cyberdoggie]

This sucks.

What exactly has Docherty done apart from being drafted early to convince anyone that he is any good? Has he shown any elite traits at AFL level?

I thought the whole point of trading for Crameri was to create a mid sized legion of doom? What of those plans if Grant goes?

Anyone remember how terrible our forward line was before Grant came in?


It guess it raises the question: How do we fit, Crameri, Jones, Campbell, Cordy, Stringer and Grant into that forward line. Also note that football is about being versatile and accountable now.
Forwards need to be able to play dual roles, and or play both an offensive and defensive role.

Problem with Grant is he goes missing too much and I think he's only ever going to be a bit part player. While I think he can do some excellent work, especially with his vision and hands, I think he's really only suited to playing that 3rd tall.

[mighty_west]

Yep, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.;)

God damn auto correct :D

[w3design]

God damn auto correct :D

Haha! I once got an email from a Chinese supplier who had stuffed up an order apologising for the incontinence.

I don't particularly want to lose Jarrad but if he doesn't want to sign the contract that has been put to him he can go to Brissie for Docherty and a swap of steak knives.

[Scorlibo]

It guess it raises the question: How do we fit, Crameri, Jones, Campbell, Cordy, Stringer and Grant into that forward line. Also note that football is about being versatile and accountable now.
Forwards need to be able to play dual roles, and or play both an offensive and defensive role.

Problem with Grant is he goes missing too much and I think he's only ever going to be a bit part player. While I think he can do some excellent work, especially with his vision and hands, I think he's really only suited to playing that 3rd tall.

His game against Carlton was one of the more complete, dominant displays I've seen from a Bulldogs forward in the last 3 years.

I know what you're getting at but I think 'bit part' player sells him well short of the mark.

[always right]

This sucks.

What exactly has Docherty done apart from being drafted early to convince anyone that he is any good? Has he shown any elite traits at AFL level?

I thought the whole point of trading for Crameri was to create a mid sized legion of doom? What of those plans if Grant goes?

Anyone remember how terrible our forward line was before Grant came in?

Problem is our problems are not confined to the forwardline. The introduction of Crameri combined with natural improvement from Campbell, Stringer and Jones will hopefully go some way towards adressing our forwardline woes. Docherty could potentially fill the need to add a running defender with good disposal in readiness for Murph's departure in a couple of years.

I also want to keep Grant but understand the broader needs of our team.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

His game against Carlton was one of the more complete, dominant displays I've seen from a Bulldogs forward in the last 3 years.

I know what you're getting at but I think 'bit part' player sells him well short of the mark.

What about his 6 goals against essendon a few years ago? was pretty dominant then but didnt do much afterwards.

I agree he has potential and X factor too. We could live to regret the trade but right now i am happy either way knowing the club has done their due diligence on Docherty who i dont know much about

[Happy Days]

I also want to keep Grant but understand the broader needs of our team.

That's pretty condescending right there.

[Scorlibo]

What about his 6 goals against essendon a few years ago? was pretty dominant then but didnt do much afterwards.

I think I liked the Carlton game even more. From memory he kicked 6 goals straight against the Bombers, kicked 4.3 against Carlton and had a couple of crucial plays inside the forward fifty. My favourite moment was him flying in from the HFF, tapping the ball to himself, then a handball to Griffen. He just looked to have complete control of the forward line in that game.

[Topdog]

Stringer is earmarked to go to the midfield one day too. Campbell, Jones and certainly Cordy are absolutely no guarantees to make it.

[bulldogtragic]

2013 AFL Statistical Rankings: Jarrad Grant:

Ranked 2nd in Goal Assists Per Game
Ranked 10th in Goals Per Game
Ranked 16th in Marks Inside 50 Per Game

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think I liked the Carlton game even more. From memory he kicked 6 goals straight against the Bombers, kicked 4.3 against Carlton and had a couple of crucial plays inside the forward fifty. My favourite moment was him flying in from the HFF, tapping the ball to himself, then a handball to Griffen. He just looked to have complete control of the forward line in that game.

Very tough decision. It is certainly a risk but sometimes you need to take the risk to reap the rewards. But that possibility that Grant is about to explode sits in the back of my mind....would hate to see him carve it up elsewhere

[mighty_west]

The ideal scenario would be trade pick 22 for Docherty, Crameri in the PSD and keep Grant. Win/win.

Plus Essendon deserve to be royally screwed over imho.

[always right]

That's pretty condescending right there.

Wasn't my intention:)

[bulldogtragic]

The ideal scenario would be trade pick 22 for Docherty, Crameri in the PSD and keep Grant. Win/win.

Plus Essendon deserve to be royally screwed over imho.
I'm happy to include a player and swap 1st rounders.

But it's Wood, Tutt, Higgins, Picken or Williams.

[mighty_west]

I'm happy to include a player and swap 1st rounders.

But it's Wood, Tutt, Higgins, Picken or Williams.

My first thoughts were Williams being a Queenslander but along with Higgins too injury prone, not too sure other clubs would take the gamble on them, especially the way Tom's shoulder popped out in Darwin.

Wood is an interesting one, he just reminds me of Jordy McMahon where he looked great breaking the lines but continually sprayed it, Easton is like a bull in a china shop with blinkers on, I wouldn't be unhappy if we traded him.

Tutt hasn't impressed anywhere near enough imo for clubs to go after.

Picken has value.

[Maddog37]

Brisbane look to be losing Longer. Would Ayce be of any interest.......?

[Scorlibo]

Wood is an interesting one, he just reminds me of Jordy McMahon where he looked great breaking the lines but continually sprayed it, Easton is like a bull in a china shop with blinkers on, I wouldn't be unhappy if we traded him.


Unlike McMahon he's an athletic beast, can outrun smaller guys and outreach/outmuscle taller guys. He will be developed as our versatile back pocket who can rebound when needed - a Hargrave role.

[mighty_west]

Unlike McMahon he's an athletic beast, can outrun smaller guys and outreach/outmuscle taller guys. He will be developed as our versatile back pocket who can rebound when needed - a Hargrave role.

Yeah possibly, I just think his overall game is a bit too erratic, plus with JJ's coming on in leaps and bounds and if we happen to snag this Docherty kid.

[soupman]

Unlike McMahon he's an athletic beast, can outrun smaller guys and outreach/outmuscle taller guys. He will be developed as our versatile back pocket who can rebound when needed - a Hargrave role.

I agree that is the ideal outcome, but I am less confident of it happening.

Wood has shown neither the ability to accumulate possessions coming out of the back half or to be damaging with the touches he gets. I think much like Farren Ray he will be a player that will be solid, but could be so much more. I'd like to keep him, but if we can facilitate a trade where we acquire a player with a higher ceiling than him then I would be supportive of it.

[1eyedog]

I think I liked the Carlton game even more. From memory he kicked 6 goals straight against the Bombers, kicked 4.3 against Carlton and had a couple of crucial plays inside the forward fifty. My favourite moment was him flying in from the HFF, tapping the ball to himself, then a handball to Griffen. He just looked to have complete control of the forward line in that game.

Mine was of him taking a chest mark running back with the flight of the ball into oncoming players with complete disregard for his safety. He hurt himself in the collision but marked the ball.

Made me think that he was going to be everything we wanted him to be.

[jeemak]

Mine was of him taking a chest mark running back with the flight of the ball into oncoming players with complete disregard for his safety. He hurt himself in the collision but marked the ball.

Made me think that he was going to be everything we wanted him to be.

Ball spilled and Dahl kicked the goal?

[always right]

Ball spilled and Dahl kicked the goal?

Minor details:D

[1eyedog]

Minor details:D

Indeed they are. The seconds of courage under the ball are all that counted to me.

[Hot_Doggies]

Indeed they are. The seconds of courage under the ball are all that counted to me.

Give Addison a 5 yr deal!!

Bring back Crossy!

Easy game this list management 1eyedog! ;)

[1eyedog]

Give Addison a 5 yr deal!!

Bring back Crossy!

Easy game this list management 1eyedog! ;)

It's about context HotDog.

Grant never displayed courage in any capacity but that changed when he came back into the side in my opinion. A lack of intensity has always been a problem and courage was a foreign word. He played 'unselfish football' and his courage act was very unlike his previous approach. I wasn't comparing him with other players so your comparison is off the mark, I'm looking at him as an individual and I'm certainly not saying he should be retained on the list because of one courageous act. What I'm saying is that his modus operandi has shifted and he appears plugged in to the team first philosophy. Has he turned the corner? Who knows!

There's also the fact that Grant brings tricks that Cross and Addision didn't / doesn't so they can't be compared on this basis either, but that's beside the point here.

[LostDoggy]

It's about context HotDog.

Grant never displayed courage in any capacity but that changed when he came back into the side in my opinion. A lack of intensity has always been a problem and courage was a foreign word. He played 'unselfish football' and his courage act was very unlike his previous approach. I wasn't comparing him with other players so your comparison is off the mark, I'm looking at him as an individual and I'm certainly not saying he should be retained on the list because of one courageous act. What I'm saying is that his modus operandi has shifted and he appears plugged in to the team first philosophy. Has he turned the corner? Who knows!

There's also the fact that Grant brings tricks that Cross and Addision didn't / doesn't so they can't be compared on this basis either, but that's beside the point here.

Tricks don't win you Grand Finals though.

[MrMahatma]

Tricks don't win you Grand Finals though.
What does?

[Topdog]

Tricks don't win you Grand Finals though.

Combinations win grand finals. If a team has nothing but hard nuts they won't win a GF. If a team has nothing but tricks they won't win a GF.

[bulldogtragic]

Tricks don't win you Grand Finals though.
Looks like Grant wants to re-sign apparently. But we should sack him because his tricks don't win grand finals...

[azabob]

Looks like Grant wants to re-sign apparently. But we should sack him because his tricks don't win grand finals...

Where did you see that BT?

[ledge]

I just read same he was offered one year with second year option wants to stay and looks like Docherty will go to Carlton. Doesn't mean we won't consider trading him though if other offers come about I suppose.

[KT31]

Tricks don't win you Grand Finals though.

Someone forgot to tell Stevie J.:)

[bulldogtragic]

Where did you see that BT?
I think it might have been ledge in another thread, could be wrong about the poster...

[1eyedog]

Combinations win grand finals. If a team has nothing but hard nuts they won't win a GF. If a team has nothing but tricks they won't win a GF.

Exactly. I think Mofra said something in another thread about Grant having the ability to kick a clutch goal in a tense Grand Final - he just has the ability to do that. Gunston's tricks worked pretty well against the Dockers. His best trick is right space right time. Grant has this as well because he has smarts and pace.

The point of my post was to say that Grant has gone beyond tricks and his effort running against the flight highlighted that to me, that's all.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

How would hearing he is up for trade affect Jarrad's confidence? He's put in the hard yards and now he is up for trade supposedly so will this have a negative effect on his confidence? Especially if we are hearing now he wants to stay.

[1eyedog]

How would hearing he is up for trade affect Jarrad's confidence? He's put in the hard yards and now he is up for trade supposedly so will this have a negative effect on his confidence? Especially if we are hearing now he wants to stay.

Other WOOFERS have stated that he plays his best football on the edge and that Macca recognizes this hence the one year extension with a caveat for two. Perhaps it will make him more determined to contribute next year if he gets his opportunity. Jarrad would understand the club has been patient with him for a while. A desire to stay either tells me that Brisbane sucks or that he owes the club. Hopefully it's the latter.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Other WOOFERS have stated that he plays his best football on the edge and that Macca recognizes this hence the one year extension with a caveat for two. Perhaps it will make him more determined to contribute next year if he gets his opportunity. Jarrad would understand the club has been patient with him for a while. A desire to stay either tells me that Brisbane sucks or that he owes the club. Hopefully it's the latter.

Hopefully he is treating it as such. Just hope he doesnt view it as "Hey we asked you to figure it out and find out what you want to be and if AFL is for you or not. You did that and showed plenty of promise, but we'll trade you anyway".....

[LostDoggy]

How would hearing he is up for trade affect Jarrad's confidence? He's put in the hard yards and now he is up for trade supposedly so will this have a negative effect on his confidence? Especially if we are hearing now he wants to stay.

Firstly, I'd say if that hurt his confidence Jarrad would need to grab a cup of concrete and harden the hell up.

Secondly, if the Dogs are smart they will be saying Brisbane are keen on you but we want to keep you, please sign our contract.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Firstly, I'd say if that hurt his confidence Jarrad would need to grab a cup of concrete and harden the hell up.

Secondly, if the Dogs are smart they will be saying Brisbane are keen on you but we want to keep you, please sign our contract.

You're forgetting that Jarrad's confidence levels fluctuates quite often. Confidence or motivation could be effected by being up for trade after putting in a stellar effort

[always right]

You're forgetting that Jarrad's confidence levels fluctuates quite often. Confidence or motivation could be effected by being up for trade after putting in a stellar effort

Do you know Jarrad?

[LostDoggy]

You're forgetting that Jarrad's confidence levels fluctuates quite often. Confidence or motivation could be effected by being up for trade after putting in a stellar effort

Mate if Jarrad lacks that much emotional resilience, he should be delisted or traded - life's tough, AFL footy's tougher - if his confidence is that big of an issue, he will continually let us down.

Look at Brad Sewell offered for trade to Melbourne, took it on the chin and turned into a very good player.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Do you know Jarrad?

No but you can see it watching him play and has been mentioned by the coaching staff

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Mate if Jarrad lacks that much emotional resilience, he should be delisted or traded - life's tough, AFL footy's tougher - if his confidence is that big of an issue, he will continually let us down.

Look at Brad Sewell offered for trade to Melbourne, took it on the chin and turned into a very good player.

Not saying it effected him just because he was offered for trade but more so because he would have been told earlier this year he needed to improve or risk being moved on (probably de-listed). So what does he do? He does improve and is traded anyway. Not saying its the be-all and end-all but it might affect him and his confidence. That was the question asked, will it affect him or his confidence, not how tough he is or will this break him. He doesnt need a life lesson on how hard life can be from us forum posters....

[Scorlibo]

Mate if Jarrad lacks that much emotional resilience, he should be delisted or traded - life's tough, AFL footy's tougher - if his confidence is that big of an issue, he will continually let us down.

Look at Brad Sewell offered for trade to Melbourne, took it on the chin and turned into a very good player.

There are plenty of confidence players in the AFL. Many are very good players.

[LostDoggy]

Not saying it effected him just because he was offered for trade but more so because he would have been told earlier this year he needed to improve or risk being moved on (probably de-listed). So what does he do? He does improve and is traded anyway. Not saying its the be-all and end-all but it might affect him and his confidence. That was the question asked, will it affect him or his confidence, not how tough he is or will this break him. He doesnt need a life lesson on how hard life can be from us forum posters....

I'm certainly not offering anyone any lessons. Just saying if Jarrad is too delicate a flower to handle another team enquiring about him being traded or his current club discussing a trade when he has rejected their contract offer, then I would suggest he isn't emotionally cut out for AFL.

And for FWIW, I would imagine he is a big boy and will handle it, rather than sook it up.

And for what its worth, I hope we retain Jarrad and that he continues his form from the latter part of the season.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm certainly not offering anyone any lessons. Just saying if Jarrad is too delicate a flower to handle another team enquiring about him being traded or his current club discussing a trade when he has rejected their contract offer, then I would suggest he isn't emotionally cut out for AFL.

And for FWIW, I would imagine he is a big boy and will handle it, rather than sook it up.

And for what its worth, I hope we retain Jarrad and that he continues his form from the latter part of the season.

Fair enough. Looks like he will be staying so let's hope his end of season form continues

[GVGjr]

Looks like Grant wants to re-sign apparently. But we should sack him because his tricks don't win grand finals...

I'd be happy to get Grant re-signed because I thought he showed more than enough to justify his spot in our team. What I think is the bigger question is why we haven't looked at giving him a two year deal and I wonder if we will be happy to shop him around further.

Assuming we add Crameri, then the forward line has a logjam of talls.

[Topdog]

Grant shouldnt be classified as a tall though.

[GVGjr]

Grant shouldnt be classified as a tall though.

I'm not so sure if that is still a valid argument because if we regard him as a mid sized forward then he still has Stringer, Dickson and maybe Murphy to compete against.

Whatever size player we regard him as, positions in the forward line looks like a hard place to command a spot.

Jones, Crameri, Campbell and possibly Williams will occupy the taller spots. Stringer, Grant, Dickson and maybe Murphy the mids and Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa, Smith (when back) Hunter, Higgins and Hrovat the crumbing positions. I've probably missed one or two others as well.

Even allowing for injuries and maybe some positional changes, commanding a spot in our forward line won't be easy.

Grant was terrific at the right end of the season but I can see why we might be shopping him around.

[ledge]

I'm not sure we were shopping grant around more to the point he was seeing what his worth was outside and maybe pushing a better deal with us.
Well the fact is the lions offered two years so if he decided to go there we seek a deal with Brisbane.
Personally I think it's more his manager doing due diligence, but his manager stated he woukd rather stay with us so it seems a bit of by play to get more out of us, not saying we wouldn't take a deal with Brisbane if someone like Docherty was put up

[mighty_west]

I'm not so sure if that is still a valid argument because if we regard him as a mid sized forward then he still has Stringer, Dickson and maybe Murphy to compete against.

Whatever size player we regard him as, positions in the forward line looks like a hard place to command a spot.

Jones, Crameri, Campbell and possibly Williams will occupy the taller spots. Stringer, Grant, Dickson and maybe Murphy the mids and Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa, Smith (when back) Hunter, Higgins and Hrovat the crumbing positions. I've probably missed one or two others as well.

Even allowing for injuries and maybe some positional changes, commanding a spot in our forward line won't be easy.

Grant was terrific at the right end of the season but I can see why we might be shopping him around.

The problem I see with trading off Grant is that we'll lose a player with some real x-factor about him and his freakish ability and skills which most of those other players listed don't really have, maybe Stringer but isn't he earmarked to play a lot in the midfield anyway?

When you think of Premiership sides and apart from a great structure most have and need that x-factor.

[Topdog]

Im really surprised that people seem sold on Campbell, Jones and Dickson.

In the mid sized role Grant is our best forward, Im sure Murphy will play back.

[JohnGentStand]

Grant's pace allows him to put a lot of defensive pressure on in the forward half as well, which we saw a lot more of this year than ever previously. Dahl cant do it alone. Sign him up !

[EasternWest]

Im really surprised that people seem sold on Campbell, Jones and Dickson.

In the mid sized role Grant is our best forward, Im sure Murphy will play back.

I'm not sold on Campbell, but his developmental J curve has been very steep.

When I first saw him play, I thought he would never make it. But he's leaned up and has improved in basically every area that I am happy to back him in for further development. He's got good hands, he's quick enough and he's a nice kick. Plus he's happy to crash packs and make his presence felt.

I also think he's got a reasonable feel for the game, which is a big deal for me because when he started he looked all at sea.

I'm not sold on him, but I'm sold on his mentality toward football and improving.

[anfo27]

I'm not so sure if that is still a valid argument because if we regard him as a mid sized forward then he still has Stringer, Dickson and maybe Murphy to compete against.

Whatever size player we regard him as, positions in the forward line looks like a hard place to command a spot.

Jones, Crameri, Campbell and possibly Williams will occupy the taller spots. Stringer, Grant, Dickson and maybe Murphy the mids and Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa, Smith (when back) Hunter, Higgins and Hrovat the crumbing positions. I've probably missed one or two others as well.

Even allowing for injuries and maybe some positional changes, commanding a spot in our forward line won't be easy.

Grant was terrific at the right end of the season but I can see why we might be shopping him around.

Good problem to have & creates fierce competition for places.

[GVGjr]

The problem I see with trading off Grant is that we'll lose a player with some real x-factor about him and his freakish ability and skills which most of those other players listed don't really have, maybe Stringer but isn't he earmarked to play a lot in the midfield anyway?

When you think of Premiership sides and apart from a great structure most have and need that x-factor.

As I said previously, I'm more than okay with him being on the list especially with the way he finished off the season but x-factor or not the combination of him playing well and being out of contract does make him a marketable commodity.

The interesting part to me is what value does he command in the market?

[GVGjr]

Im really surprised that people seem sold on Campbell, Jones and Dickson.

In the mid sized role Grant is our best forward, Im sure Murphy will play back.

Where did anyone say they were sold on the players you mentioned above? They are on the list and clearly in the mix for positions in the forward line.

[Ghost Dog]

Grant is a type of player with unique abilities, and a hard match up for an opposition. A forward who can sprint outpace most defenders , kick goals from odd angles and has a lot of composure. It's exactly what we need and why we've persisted with him. Name another like for like player in the league? Not many of his ilk about.

[Scorlibo]

I'm not so sure about the calls saying Jarrad Grant plays small. When he played really well in the latter half of the year he was named in key positions and played as a focal point in the forward line. He might not be a hulking forward target but his bread and butter remains leading up at the ball carrier and taking marks inside fifty so I still see him in that role.

Ideally we'll see at least one of Crameri, Stringer and Grant bob up each game if the other two are held, but they'll all have to make compromises to their game in order for the forward line at large to function well. It will be difficult to manage for the coaches but hopefully we see them all work together well. I don't see room for both Campbell/Cordy and Jones in the same forward line in that scenario. Murph I wouldn't be too worried about, he's a wily fox, he'll work it out.

[MrMahatma]

Hope we keep him. He's pretty unique.

[F'scary]

Im really surprised that people seem sold on Campbell, Jones and Dickson.

In the mid sized role Grant is our best forward, Im sure Murphy will play back.

Our mid/late season turn around really gathered pace when we introduced both of Grant and Campbell to the forward line.

As far as I'm concerned, we have found our power forward. Campbell kicked 9 goals in 6 games. That is 33 goals next year if he plays 22 games and just keeps doing what he was doing in 2013. If he improves some more...

Probably agree on Grant. As far as I'm concerned, Grant finally delivered in a way that demonstrates he will be around for a long time as a star forward - an X factor forward who picks up a decent number of possessions too.

No need to trade Grant for a possible next big thing. No need to use our #4 pick on an untested potential power forward.

Jones, yeah, I'm not sold on him but no need to move on yet. Might regret it.

And Dickson: remember, you are talking about Mr 6 goals here.

[Twodogs]

I remember this. A big kid up forward called Campbell that had us all excited.

[mighty_west]

The interesting part to me is what value does he command in the market?

Without knowing what happens behind closed doors with only reading the reports that come out, apart from our offer to the Lions for Docherty, there doesn't seem to be much else as far as Jarrads concerned, our own club is also seemingly not ranking or valuing him too highly only offering him with a one year deal with conditions on a second which I don't think many supporters have an issue with given his inconsistencies throughout despite his purple patch this year.

[Ghost Dog]

I would be much more disappointed to lose this kid than Lake. And I loved Brian. I think this kid has something left field and you really really need that to get ahead in this cut throat industry.
His growth has been very pleasing.

[1eyedog]

I'm not so sure if that is still a valid argument because if we regard him as a mid sized forward then he still has Stringer, Dickson and maybe Murphy to compete against.

Whatever size player we regard him as, positions in the forward line looks like a hard place to command a spot.

Jones, Crameri, Campbell and possibly Williams will occupy the taller spots. Stringer, Grant, Dickson and maybe Murphy the mids and Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa, Smith (when back) Hunter, Higgins and Hrovat the crumbing positions. I've probably missed one or two others as well.

Even allowing for injuries and maybe some positional changes, commanding a spot in our forward line won't be easy.

Grant was terrific at the right end of the season but I can see why we might be shopping him around.

But he's not competing against these guys though is he? The only talls in our forward line are Campbell and Jones, the rest are mid-sized. Grant is a 6'4 Milne which is fairly unique. He can take a screamer but he doesn't pack mark and when he is 'on' he is as good and clever as Milne around goals.

If Grant can continue his late season form he'll certainly have no problem finding a spot in the forward line.

[1eyedog]

I'm not so sure about the calls saying Jarrad Grant plays small. When he played really well in the latter half of the year he was named in key positions and played as a focal point in the forward line. He might not be a hulking forward target but his bread and butter remains leading up at the ball carrier and taking marks inside fifty so I still see him in that role.

Ideally we'll see at least one of Crameri, Stringer and Grant bob up each game if the other two are held, but they'll all have to make compromises to their game in order for the forward line at large to function well. It will be difficult to manage for the coaches but hopefully we see them all work together well. I don't see room for both Campbell/Cordy and Jones in the same forward line in that scenario. Murph I wouldn't be too worried about, he's a wily fox, he'll work it out.

On the contrary I think he played his best football left one out and/or as an opportunist in front of goals. When he came back into the team he played this role really well - obviously Macca knows he has pace and smarts and it seemed he had a bit of licence to do what he wanted. He brought so many other players into the game at ground level; it was quite startling really how effective he was when the ball hit the deck.

Think the plays small argument seems sound enough, no stats to back this up just opinion. Agree with OPs he's a different cat alright.

[Scorlibo]

On the contrary I think he played his best football left one out and/or as an opportunist in front of goals. When he came back into the team he played this role really well - obviously Macca knows he has pace and smarts and it seemed he had a bit of licence to do what he wanted. He brought so many other players into the game at ground level; it was quite startling really how effective he was when the ball hit the deck.

Think the plays small argument seems sound enough, no stats to back this up just opinion. Agree with OPs he's a different cat alright.

You're not wrong in that he brings other players into the game but can't agree with the 6'4 Milne quote. He takes lots of marks and like I said, lots of marks inside 50. I do like that he's good as both a small and tall though because it means he can adapt within the forward line.

[1eyedog]

You're not wrong in that he brings other players into the game but can't agree with the 6'4 Milne quote. He takes lots of marks and like I said, lots of marks inside 50. I do like that he's good as both a small and tall though because it means he can adapt within the forward line.

Yeah fair enough and his versatility is one of the main reasons I wanted to keep him. The modern game is now such that players need to be able to adapt rather than be one-dimensional and this is the reason that players like Lower missed out I guess.

[KT31]

You're not wrong in that he brings other players into the game but can't agree with the 6'4 Milne quote. He takes lots of marks and like I said, lots of marks inside 50. I do like that he's good as both a small and tall though because it means he can adapt within the forward line.

IMO he also works a lot harder to push down the ground when needed than Milne ever would.

[1eyedog]

IMO he also works a lot harder to push down the ground when needed than Milne ever would.

True, I guess my comparison was based on their respective abilities inside 50.

[Ozza]

Grant being a '6"4 Milne' would be an enormous compliment to Jarrad. And one he isn't deserving of.

[1eyedog]

Grant being a '6"4 Milne' would be an enormous compliment to Jarrad. And one he isn't deserving of.

Type of player rather than 'as good as'.

[Ozza]

Type of player rather than 'as good as'.

Personally, I don't really see it. Milne was a very good one on one player, and great at getting to where the ball is going to be, around stoppages and marking contests.
Grant at his best - which we have seen snippets of - has sticky hands leading up at the footy around half forward, and can occasionally get a goal by getting behind the defence with his pace.

[Raw Toast]

Personally, I don't really see it. Milne was a very good one on one player, and great at getting to where the ball is going to be, around stoppages and marking contests.
Grant at his best - which we have seen snippets of - has sticky hands leading up at the footy around half forward, and can occasionally get a goal by getting behind the defence with his pace.

Milne got a lot of goals from leads, but Grant is the best crumber at the club and certainly the most dangerous of any of our forwards once the ball has hit the ground. It's not his pace that makes him dangerous, as much as his sticky hands at ground level coupled with the pace to then break away, and his snapping ability from either side. (Not to mention his vision with handballs.)

[wimberga]

Milne got a lot of goals from leads, but Grant is the best crumber at the club and certainly the most dangerous of any of our forwards once the ball has hit the ground. It's not his pace that makes him dangerous, as much as his sticky hands at ground level coupled with the pace to then break away, and his snapping ability from either side. (Not to mention his vision with handballs.)

With the exception of one J. Stringer. Whilst not a "crumber", that goal he kicked in the Nab cup, the one he kicked in the west against WCE and the one he kicked against the tigers from the pocket show the ball cannot compete with his will, grounded or airborne.

[LostDoggy]

Grant brings an x-factor to the forward half of the ground that makes him very hard to defend against because of his unorthodox unpredictability.

[G-Mo77]

Meanwhile, Western Bulldogs forward Jarrad Grant has not yet made up his mind whether to remain at the Whitten Oval or explore the possibility of playing for a second club, Brisbane.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/nick-dal-santo-to-decide-between-north-melbourne-and-essendon/story-fnca0u4y-1226740575949#sthash.AkdYFoG3.dpuf

[1eyedog]

Milne got a lot of goals from leads, but Grant is the best crumber at the club and certainly the most dangerous of any of our forwards once the ball has hit the ground. It's not his pace that makes him dangerous, as much as his sticky hands at ground level coupled with the pace to then break away, and his snapping ability from either side. (Not to mention his vision with handballs.)

Agree that Grant is the best crumber at the club and you're right that Milne kicked many of his 500+ goals from leading at the ball carrier.

Grant is same but different to Milne in many regards with the exception that Milne cannot take a mark above his head.

I will be disappointed if he goes to the Lions. No pun intended.

[Scorlibo]

Meanwhile, Western Bulldogs forward Jarrad Grant has not yet made up his mind whether to remain at the Whitten Oval or explore the possibility of playing for a second club, Brisbane.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/nick-dal-santo-to-decide-between-north-melbourne-and-essendon/story-fnca0u4y-1226740575949#sthash.AkdYFoG3.dpuf

Seems to be just feeding off rumours which are already present.

[bulldogsman]

Has the Australian got any rumours right? Seems like to me it's been well off the mark and about as reliable as facebook.

[Greystache]

Has the Australian got any rumours right? Seems like to me it's been well off the mark and about as reliable as facebook.

Greg "Venom" Denham went 3 years without getting a trade rumor right, this despite starting literally hundreds of them. It's almost statically impossible to be wrong as often as he is, the man's incredible, he's makes Patrick Smith seem almost competent.

[The Doctor]

Greg "Venom" Denham went 3 years without getting a trade rumor right, this despite starting literally hundreds of them. It's almost statically impossible to be wrong as often as he is, the man's incredible, he's makes Patrick Smith seem almost competent.

like him or not Patrick Smith is arguably the best and most articulate sports journalist in this county. Denham on the other hand....

[always right]

Greg Denham....comfortably the worst football journalist in the country yet with an ego almost as big as Patrick Smith's.

[Remi Moses]

like him or not Patrick Smith is arguably the best and most articuate sports journalist in this county. Denham on the other hand....

Good point Doctor. Denham got the Ward to GWS right, but even a broken clock's right twice a day.

[Twodogs]

Greg "Venom" Denham went 3 years without getting a trade rumor right, this despite starting literally hundreds of them. It's almost statically impossible to be wrong as often as he is, the man's incredible, he's makes Patrick Smith seem almost competent.



Denham still owes a talkback caller on SEN a million dollars over the Fevola trade. The caller rang in and said Fev was Brisbane bound, Denham hotly denied it and then said "I'll tell you what. i'll bet you a million dollars that he doesn't go to Brisbane" Caller said "done"and Fev went the next day.

[bornadog]

Denham still owes a talkback caller on SEN a million dollars over the Fevola trade. The caller rang in and said Fev was Brisbane bound, Denham hotly denied it and then said "I'll tell you what. i'll bet you a million dollars that he doesn't go to Brisbane" Caller said "done"and Fev went the next day.

Was the caller Michael from Ascotvale:D

[westdog54]

like him or not Patrick Smith is arguably the best and most articulate sports journalist in this county. Denham on the other hand....

He's certainly articulate but he brings himself undone with his smug, cynical approach to just about anything he writes about, and the insultingly dismissive manner in which he deflects criticism.

[F'scary]

He's certainly articulate but he brings himself undone with his smug, cynical approach to just about anything he writes about, and the insultingly dismissive manner in which he deflects criticism.

yeah, he is basically a c...

[jeemak]

like him or not Patrick Smith is arguably the best and most articulate sports journalist in this county. Denham on the other hand....

I liked Patrick Smith, until he got his radio spot on SEN. I stopped listening and reading after that (the online lockout of the Australian didn't help, admittedly). For some reason he thought becoming emotional and beating up on his favoured club would be good thing.

[azabob]

Has signed a two year deal.

[whythelongface]

Has signed a two year deal.

Fantastic news. Where did you hear/ read about this.

[chef]

Good news.

[Axe Man]

Further to Grant signing, Al Paton on the Herald-Sun site:


Reports Jarrad Grant has signed a two-year deal with the Dogs. That takes any possible swap for Sam Docherty off the table

[The Underdog]

Fantastic news. Where did you hear/ read about this.

It's on The Age website. Emma Quayle just tweeted it out.
We can put those high horses back in the stables now, he got 2 years.

[Axe Man]

Jarrad Grant re-signs with Bulldogs (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jarrad-grant-resigns-with-bulldogs-20131017-2vo4s.html)

[jeemak]

Good outcome. I was happy with the club's original position, but happier not to lose him.

[SonofScray]

Good result for us and for Jarrad who I feel has reached a point in his career where his understanding of what it takes to make it has caught up with his exceptional talent.

[strebla]

Great news would have hated to lose him hope is stays focused will be a very important ant piece to the puzzle going forward.

[Mofra]

He'll be getting the 3rd or 4th defender next year - will cause headaches.

[mighty_west]

Brilliant news.

[Remi Moses]

Ball is now in Grant's court, and hope he continues he's good form.

[LostDoggy]

Yes, happy with this!

[Maddog37]

I am very, very happy with this. I feel we have only scratched the surface with Grant.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Phew. Good news. I hope, no, I demand, that he maintains his intensity.
That will be one freaky forward line with Stringer Grant Dalhaus and Crameri running riot.

[always right]

Perhaps it was always the club's intention to give him a two year contract. By making him sweat it out it should remind Grant that a handful of good games at the end of the year is no guarantee of future security. If he's fair dinkum he will put in a massive pre-season.

[always right]

Phew. Good news. I hope, no, I demand, that he maintains his intensity.
That will be one freaky forward line with Stringer Grant Dalhaus and Crameri running riot.

Assuming Crameri comes on board, we now have the makings of a very dangerous forwardline. The key is whether we see natural improvement from Stringer and Campbell with a rejuvenated Grant.

[Murphy'sLore]

Very relieved, would have been sorry to lose him. Looking forward to seeing if he can sustain last year's exciting form into next season, I hope so.

[bulldogtragic]

So is he shit or not now???

:)

[robb]

Potential Ecker I say

[Dancin' Douggy]

Assuming Crameri comes on board, we now have the makings of a very dangerous forwardline. The key is whether we see natural improvement from Stringer and Campbell with a rejuvenated Grant.

Oh, and we're forgetting Patton as well.

[Greystache]

I would've preferred the club hold its original position, but now let's hope he can repay the commitment we've made.

[Cyberdoggie]

So we caved in to his second year demands?
No mention of any clauses?


What does this mean for Crameri?, will we cave in there as well and give Essendon something else?


Well done to Grant he got what he wanted, I think he's a serviceable player but will find it hard to break into the side at full strength unless he improves again and plays to his potential.

[strebla]

So we caved in to his second year demands?
No mention of any clauses?


What does this mean for Crameri?, will we cave in there as well and give Essendon something else?


Well done to Grant he got what he wanted, I think he's a serviceable player but will find it hard to break into the side at full strength unless he improves again and plays to his potential.

Which is what he needs I believe to be the player we hope he can become.

[1eyedog]

He'll be getting the 3rd or 4th defender next year - will cause headaches.

Totally agree. Very happy with the re-signing, great news for player and club. We now have what you would call a 'real' forward line with 'real' forward line players rather than makeshift forwards (bar perhaps Campbell) and all of them are 25 or under which is really exciting.

[always right]

So we caved in to his second year demands?
No mention of any clauses?


What does this mean for Crameri?, will we cave in there as well and give Essendon something else?


Well done to Grant he got what he wanted, I think he's a serviceable player but will find it hard to break into the side at full strength unless he improves again and plays to his potential.

Why would the club mention "clauses" in their release? Why do you assume we "caved in"?

[The Underdog]

So is he shit or not now???

:)

Possibly, but he gets 2 more years to prove it.

[Happy Days]

Sick.

[Hotdog60]

Sick.

Grants not well???

[LostDoggy]

Great news, we have an exciting forward line to look forward to.

We will need to judge his progress next year and either extend his contract or trade.

[G-Mo77]

On the media release it says until at least 2015. Does that mean he's got 2 years guaranteed with an optional year beyond that. It goes against the original report of 1 & optional 1.

Either way it's good news that he's with us next year and beyond.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good result for both player and club.

I could understand our initial position, and I could understand Grant's but I think the best case scenario was that the club made it clear to Jarrad that he has much work to do but that if he does indeed follow on, he can be an important player.

Excited to see our new look forward line with Crameri, should help Grant even more than it helps Jones.

[ReLoad]

Potential Ecker I say

2014 could be his Eker Hall of Fame year, or maybe, just maybe his becoming of a footballer.

Either way happy it played out, we will never die wondering now.

[Mantis]

Good result.

Hopefully he will develop into a very handy player as our forwardline structure & personnel improves.

[bulldogtragic]

I completely agree with JMac, I have always thought he was the type of player to play to the level of footy he was playing.

[Ghost Dog]

Potential Ecker I say

McCartney would never accept it.


And speaking of the coach,
what pleases me most is that Brendan shows the ability to relate to and develop all types of players, not just the typical ball accumulator types, and even those who don't at first buy into his philosophy. It took a lot of guts for him to banish JG into the bowels of the Whiiten Oval Gym, and yet keep believing in him. Is it unfair to think that if Rocket were still around he would have lost patience?

At the same time, JG shows he likes playing for the crowd, and is popular among the group. Cannot wait until next season to see the next chapter. We are a much duller team without him in the mix, provided he keeps working on those basics.

[Twodogs]

Sick.



Fully.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Phew. Good news. I hope, no, I demand, that he maintains his intensity.
That will be one freaky forward line with Stringer Grant Dalhaus and Crameri running riot.

Yes, one day soon they will riot and dazzle but also hopefully perform relatively consistently. Hope they form a chemistry and an instinct for each other. I reckon Jake the peg brings other players into it as well as kicking goals himself. Grant brings other players into it with clever handpasses and Crameri works hard for the team as well as slotting them so potential for them to form a unique forward line and with some good delivery and just weight of delivery from our successful contested delivery from the middle, we should have an interesting 2014.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Potentially a very exciting and damaging forward half with Crameri, Stringer, Grant, Dahlhaus, Dickson, Gia, Hunter and Jones rotating through there. All very smart, capable players. Football IQ should not be underrated, these players have it in spades with Jones being the exception. Theoretically, he should improve with help though.

Do people think we'll still play Campbell as the full forward, or does that then become too top heavy? Is it a case of Jones v Campbell for a spot, or even Stringer v Jones in the immediate future?

[Scraggers]

Sick.


Fully.

Totally !!

[comrade]

The website doesn't say 2 years, it says he's with us until 'at least 2015'.

What does that mean?

[Scraggers]

Very happy with this ... Jarrad is a required player ... Looking forward to his next two seasons.

[LostDoggy]

Gee we could be dangerous in the forward half next season. Going to be interesting to see what the make up of our best forward line will be... Campbell, Jones, Crameri, Stringer, Grant, Dahlhaus, Dickson, Hunter and of course Gia all pressing for spots. Hopefully Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat and Tutt can all spend some time in the middle with Crameri and Stringer pinch hitting.

[G-Mo77]

The website doesn't say 2 years, it says he's with us until 'at least 2015'.

What does that mean?

That was my question as well comrade.

My translation (Guess) was 2 years with optional season/s beyond that.

[Axe Man]

That was my question as well comrade.

My translation (Guess) was 2 years with optional season/s beyond that.

It could mean that or perhaps it simply means a 2 year contract which will result in him being there until at least 2015. If he signs another contract in the future then he will be there longer. It may just be some ambiguous wording causing confusion.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That was my question as well comrade.

My translation (Guess) was 2 years with optional season/s beyond that.

I think that's reading too much into it. I read it as literally, right now with this contract, he is here to 2015. Nothing more.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

It could mean that or perhaps it simply means a 2 year contract which will result in him being there until at least 2015. If he signs another contract in the future then he will be there longer. It may just be some ambiguous wording causing confusion.

That's my take too.

[ledge]

Pretty straight forward really he signed until the end of 2015. I think you're trying to read something into nothing

[G-Mo77]

It could mean that or perhaps it simply means a 2 year contract which will result in him being there until at least 2015. If he signs another contract in the future then he will be there longer. It may just be some ambiguous wording causing confusion.


I think that's reading too much into it. I read it as literally, right now with this contract, he is here to 2015. Nothing more.


Pretty straight forward really he signed until the end of 2015. I think you're trying to read something into nothing

You're all probably right. Just with all the talk about performance based year on his contract earlier made me think there was more to it. Doesn't matter anyway, just glad we've got another one locked in.

[Twodogs]

He's now in the same position as Ryan Griffen and Mitch Wallis. All three are contracted until the end of 2015. Three players are contacted until 2016 Libba, Stringer and Macrae. No one is contracted into 2017.

[bornadog]

It's on The Age website. Emma Quayle just tweeted it out.
We can put those high horses back in the stables now, he got 2 years.

One year was an insult, but most likely a bargaining tool. Very happy to keep him if he can play like he has been.

[LostDoggy]

Totally !!

Fully sick mate!!:D

[bornadog]

Potential Ecker I say

Really??

[LostDoggy]

Potentially a very exciting and damaging forward half with Crameri, Stringer, Grant, Dahlhaus, Dickson, Gia, Hunter and Jones rotating through there. All very smart, capable players. Football IQ should not be underrated, these players have it in spades with Jones being the exception. Theoretically, he should improve with help though.

Do people think we'll still play Campbell as the full forward, or does that then become too top heavy? Is it a case of Jones v Campbell for a spot, or even Stringer v Jones in the immediate future?
Jones has had plenty of time and an abundance of chances to improve! Maybe it's Just me but I Just don't think he will or can cut it. The forwards seem to me to have a lot more confidence and smart decision making choices in them when jones isn't there.Just have to look at the way we performed in the last half of the year to see that. In all those games that jones' form and contributions fell away because the ball coming in to the forwards by the core midfield group had more confidence in delivering to grant,dickson,campbell,gia and dahl boy on a lead then hoping that jones would take a CHEST MARK 20 metres out and pray to god that he converted! Guys up the ground will only go to the well so many times and if that well(JONES) is always dry-eg.lot of effort for bugger all result,well then of course their going to look for other far more reliable and more footy smart targets which jones neither posses or has the potential to acqiure no matter how much time and effort the coaching staff put into him

[DISHLICKERS]

Gee we could be dangerous in the forward half next season. Going to be interesting to see what the make up of our best forward line will be... Campbell, Jones, Crameri, Stringer, Grant, Dahlhaus, Dickson, Hunter and of course Gia all pressing for spots. Hopefully Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat and Tutt can all spend some time in the middle with Crameri and Stringer pinch hitting.

Higgins?

Rapt for J Grant. Really think he brings unique quailities to the side some great attributes.
Makes us a more difficult team to match up against and a better team.

Good work by all!

[LostDoggy]

Has signed a two year deal.

COOL BANANAS! Great news for both Spindle and the Club. Can't wait to see Dahl,The Big Soup,Dicko,Gia,Spindle,Man Child Stringer and Crammers creating headaches,havoc and mayhem for opp.backs next year and beyond! Roll on 2014 !:D

[hujsh]

I hope we don't look back on this year as when we should have traded Grant. That said it is hard to give up on his potential.

[Eastdog]

Good news but Grant needs to keep it up and not drop off or else he will be under scrutiny.

[azabob]

I hope we don't look back on this year as when we should have traded Grant. That said it is hard to give up on his potential.

I mentioned something similar a few days back, to the effect it is very similar to the Josh Hill and Everitt situation.

[The Underdog]

One year was an insult, but most likely a bargaining tool. Very happy to keep him if he can play like he has been.

I'm happy to keep him too. But we obviously have a different idea of what constitutes an insult.

[LostDoggy]

I hope we don't look back on this year as when we should have traded Grant. That said it is hard to give up on his potential.

Totally agree but I feel its such a crap draft pick 30'ish would be a longshot to produce anywhere near what Grant could. Think its worked in our favour but we'll know more in 5 years :)

[Bulldog Revolution]

I could understand our initial position, and I could understand Grant's but I think the best case scenario was that the club made it clear to Jarrad that he has much work to do but that if he does indeed follow on, he can be an important player.



Great insights TBB

[Dancin' Douggy]

I can understand the 'maybe we should have traded Grant' philosophy.
And honestly I was pretty close to that feeling myself.

But we all saw what he did in those few glorious weeks.

It was light years beyond anything Josh Hill ever did. It was something quite special.

People can trot out raw statistics and raw data.

BUT WE KNOW WHAT WE SAW.

I think the club has played this perfectly. He's had time to consider his options, shop himself around etc etc.

Then he, and we compromise and come to an agreement on a 2 year deal.
He comes back to the fold...........voluntarily.........we left him hanging.

Hopefully the confidence and self belief are finally there with Grant now.
He will be one of the hardest players for anyone to match up on.
He's just so unusual. His combination of skills and body type are just like nothing I've ever seen before.
He looks strange, he moves strange, he thinks strange.

He's a freak....but he's OUR freak.

With confidence and maturity, wow.............maybe Scott Clayton was right....(and it hurts to say that)

Glad we kept him.

[bornadog]

I can understand the 'maybe we should have traded Grant' philosophy.
And honestly I was pretty close to that feeling myself.

But we all saw what he did in those few glorious weeks.

It was light years beyond anything Josh Hill ever did. It was something quite special.

People can trot out raw statistics and raw data.

BUT WE KNOW WHAT WE SAW.

I think the club has played this perfectly. He's had time to consider his options, shop himself around etc etc.

Then he, and we compromise and come to an agreement on a 2 year deal.
He comes back to the fold...........voluntarily.........we left him hanging.

Hopefully the confidence and self belief are finally there with Grant now.
He will be one of the hardest players for anyone to match up on.
He's just so unusual. His combination of skills and body type are just like nothing I've ever seen before.
He looks strange, he moves strange, he thinks strange.

He's a freak....but he's OUR freak.

With confidence and maturity, wow.............maybe Scott Clayton was right....(and it hurts to say that)

Glad we kept him.

Nice Post.

[MrMahatma]

He's a freak....but he's OUR freak.


Awesome line.

[Twodogs]

Awesome line.


One of Roosevelt's best ever.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Grant was outmarking everyone at one pre-season training I was at this year. No one else marked as cleanly. Kick to kick for goal, with no spoiling being done, he was taking plenty of marks as clean as a whistle, easily the cleanest hands on display. Then he slotted the goals. He didn't seem to feel any pressure whilst others fumbled at times.
In his early senior games he didn't seem to want the ball rather would be on the outside and a watcher. I have a feeling he is better close to goal with the action coming at him but he must learn to demand the ball and create play when he doesn't have the ball.

[Scorlibo]

Grant was outmarking everyone at one pre-season training I was at this year. No one else marked as cleanly. Kick to kick for goal, with no spoiling being done, he was taking plenty of marks as clean as a whistle, easily the cleanest hands on display. Then he slotted the goals. He didn't seem to feel any pressure whilst others fumbled at times.
In his early senior games he didn't seem to want the ball rather would be on the outside and a watcher. I have a feeling he is better close to goal with the action coming at him but he must learn to demand the ball and create play when he doesn't have the ball.

Hence why I think it's unwise to dismiss him as a small forward or 'the best crumber at the club'. He was drafted as the best marking target in the 2007 crop.

[bornadog]

From Twitter
Jarrad Grant @jarradgrant1

Very pleased to be staying at the @westernbulldogs and looking to improve on last years finish! #GatherThePack

Can't wait till round 1

[LostDoggy]

I'm glad he got a two year deal so we can see how he plays when not playing for a new contract. That'll be the real indicator.