Jarrad Grant?

[LostDoggy]

I have been reading a few mock drafts and I'm interested that Jarrad Grant keeps getting mentioned as a possible draft pick for us.
I'll throw this question towards the guys that watch a the junior football but at 191cm is he tall enough or likely to grow tall enough to develop into a key position player?
He seems to be highly regarded for his athletic prowess but is he more of a genuine footballer with athleticv ability like Everitt rather than an athlete turned footballer like Williams?
Can anyone else give me their thoughts on Jarrad Grant?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I have been reading a few mock drafts and I'm interested that Jarrad Grant keeps getting mentioned as a possible draft pick for us.
I'll throw this question towards the guys that watch a the junior football but at 191cm is he tall enough or likely to grow tall enough to develop into a key position player?
He seems to be highly regarded for his athletic prowess but is he more of a genuine footballer with athleticv ability like Everitt rather than an athlete turned footballer like Williams?
Can anyone else give me their thoughts on Jarrad Grant?

Let me preface this by saying I've never seen him play.

He was listed at draft camp as 192.4cm so he's grown a little bit this year. He's still very skinny so he might even grow a little more. Chris Grant is only 193cm.

He only played 8 TAC cup games this year but led the comp in averages for goals, marks and contested marks.

Tested very well at draft camp and his 20m time was right up there.

mjp has seen him play and might like to add a bit more.


Some observations. Clayton has said he will take a tall and knows the player he wants will be available. To me, this means Clayton either knows who Melbourne want (or at least who Melbourne doesn't want) or he intends to pick someone other than Henderson or McEvoy.

Two journo's nominated Grant as coming to us. Have they heard something?

Grant is unlikely to go top 10 if we don't take him, so if we want him, why didn't we trade pick 5 for Hudson and pick 10? We still would have got the blokes we want and kept pick 22.

[GVGjr]

He's well worth considering but probably falls somewhere between our pick 5 and pick 19 selections.

Like Sockeye said, Jarrad Grant is about 193cm, quick and can take a mark. In my opinion he could be a quick developer. He covers a lot of ground and his skills are good enough. The real question is if he is big enough to hold down a key position or is he going to be a taller version of Russell Robertson.

Is he a Clayton type pick? Sure, but he might not be the one we are after with the first selection and could be gone for the second.

[Go_Dogs]

It seems to me that the first 20 or so selections are all reasonably even, so quite likely one of the other talls being mentioned as possible top 10 material could well fall through to our pick 19.

[GVGjr]

I think the most intriguing part is if we will select talls with the first two picks. Grant might be in the mix if that is the case.

[Go_Dogs]

I tend to agree. Do you think since the loss of McMahon and Power it does leave it a bit more open to perhaps select one small in our first two picks?

[Mantis]

I think the most intriguing part is if we will select talls with the first two picks. Grant might be in the mix if that is the case.

Yeah its certainly going to be interesting. Spoke to a few people yesterday who have links with Clayton and they seem to think that Grant is definitely one player that Clayton is keen on.

[LostDoggy]

I heard its Chris Grants little brother...champion in the making.




*Please note there is 99.9% chance that statement is made up* :D

[dog town]

Height is meaningless if he cant play so whether he is 191cm or 196cm does not worry me in the slightest. A dangerous forward line needs many ingredients and Grant seems to have alot of things that would be more than useful to us down the track.

[LostDoggy]

Now i know many people dont like AFL comparisons but will he develop into a Brad Fisher type player?

[GVGjr]

I tend to agree. Do you think since the loss of McMahon and Power it does leave it a bit more open to perhaps select one small in our first two picks?

I think we are actually lacking in quality midfielders especially some with a bit of pace. Losing those two will weaken the depth a bit albeit slightly offset by the addition of Callan.
Like you, I'd actually consider trying to get the best midfielder with the second pick but I'd imagine if Grant or Gaertner was still there it would be difficult to pass up on.
If our list had a bit more quality and potential with KPP and midfielders though, you would argue more about Ebert or Ward with the early picks.


Yeah its certainly going to be interesting. Spoke to a few people yesterday who have links with Clayton and they seem to think that Grant is definitely one player that Clayton is keen on.

We won't use an early selection on someone who can't get a lot of the ball and this probably works a little against McEvoy. Grant should be one of the players we have in mind. I liked mjp's idea about Gourdis as well. He is strong in the areas that a key forward in todays game need to be.


Height is meaningless if he cant play so whether he is 191cm or 196cm does not worry me in the slightest. A dangerous forward line needs many ingredients and Grant seems to have alot of things that would be more than useful to us down the track.

Agreed. Grant is going to be about 193cm and given his pace and marking strength it's a good blend for us. A 196cm player who can't hold his marks will struggle even in a team short on talls.

[LostDoggy]

In Inside Football there is a huge rap for Scott Simpson , i like the sound of him and also Rob Tarrant, who is supposed to be very physical which we also need.

[mjp]

In Inside Football there is a huge rap for Scott Simpson , i like the sound of him and also Rob Tarrant, who is supposed to be very physical which we also need.


Ho - Ho - Ho re Tarrant. Sorry.

I have not seen the best of Simpson and consequently have a negative view of him.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ho - Ho - Ho re Tarrant. Sorry.

I have not seen the best of Simpson and consequently have a negative view of him.

Tarrant is possibly not as physical as you might expect of one his size?

[mjp]

Tarrant is possibly not as physical as you might expect of one his size?


I don't mind him, but he is a lead up forward - not really a pack crasher. Likes a bit of a push and shove when the ball is elsewhere, but I am not sure that really counts.

This year he was an unfit lead-up forward - not the greatest combination. Needs to get his legs back to be effective.

I think he will be drafted, but closer to 50 than to 20.

[LostDoggy]

What about Tim Bonghetti who led the tac cup's goalkicking with 60 for the season?

[Dry Rot]

What about Tim Bonghetti who led the tac cup's goalkicking with 60 for the season?

With a name like that, wouldn't he be drafted by the Eagles?

[LostDoggy]

What about Tim Bonghetti who led the tac cup's goalkicking with 60 for the season?

He might be worth a shot but I was told he is a touch slow and at 191cm tall that works against most key forwards.

[LostDoggy]

What about Tim Bonghetti who led the tac cup's goalkicking with 60 for the season?
Bongetti.
If its who I think it is it, his is the son of a ex FDL Kingsville YMCA player, ex North Melb Giants CEO and Swimming Vic CEO Ron Bongetti- not the one that was at Porchetta with Mick Gatto.

His used to live around the corner from my parents. The family are Bulldog fans.

[GVGjr]

I have been reading a few mock drafts and I'm interested that Jarrad Grant keeps getting mentioned as a possible draft pick for us.
I'll throw this question towards the guys that watch a the junior football but at 191cm is he tall enough or likely to grow tall enough to develop into a key position player?
He seems to be highly regarded for his athletic prowess but is he more of a genuine footballer with athleticv ability like Everitt rather than an athlete turned footballer like Williams?
Can anyone else give me their thoughts on Jarrad Grant?


Thought that this thread should be bumped for review again.
This is a very solid selection for us and one that will pay off nicely in the future

[Bulldog Revolution]

All the talk of his ability to do the freakish has me thinking of our own version of Lance Franklin?

[bornadog]

All the talk of his ability to do the freakish has me thinking of our own version of Lance Franklin?

Will there be another Grant wearing the number three:D

[GVGjr]

All the talk of his ability to do the freakish has me thinking of our own version of Lance Franklin?

FWIW, I know a lot of people compare him to Franklin and Brennan but I think he is a bit more similar to Riewoldt than those two. I'm not saying he will be as good as him, but he is that sort of athletic player than the really freakish types.

[Bulldog Revolution]

FWIW, I know a lot of people compare him to Franklin and Brennan but I think he is a bit more similar to Riewoldt than those two. I'm not saying he will be as good as him, but he is that sort of athletic player than the really freakish types.

Very interesting Cheers GVG

He looks good in the highlights, looks a natural forward, comfortable attacking the ball in the air and seems to have some presence

[bornadog]

Will he play next season, or is it a developemnt year at Willy?

[GVGjr]

Will he play next season, or is it a developemnt year at Willy?

I think he will play some games but it's not that important that he does. If we got 5 games out of him them it will be a huge result.

[wimberga]

For some reason, i have a feeling he might be a little bit like Murphy.

[LostDoggy]

He is going to need to hit the weights over the summer if he wants to be playing afl next season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He is going to need to hit the weights over the summer if he wants to be playing afl next season.

Of course, but few would have expected the late season cameo from Skinny Everitt after first seeing him - I know I certainly didn't.

GVGjr mentioned in another post the challenge of making sure our first year players get through the year injury free whilst also developing physically and skill wise

And this will be a challenge for Grant also

Does Reid look the most ready physically to contribute at a senior level?

[westdog54]

On the AFL Website's draft tracker there is some great video of some of our draftees strutting their stuff at u/18 level, Grant and Ward are very impressive overhead, Reid seems to have a knack of finding his way through traffic, O'Keefe seems to be very dangerous in front of goal.

[LostDoggy]

From watching the footage hes not only a great athlete but a great footballer aswell. Hes got a great kicking action. It made me laugh when he took a mark and pushed the ball into his opponents head.

He looks the goods. I cant wait to see him develop.

[Dancin' Douggy]

From watching the footage hes not only a great athlete but a great footballer aswell. Hes got a great kicking action. It made me laugh when he took a mark and pushed the ball into his opponents head.

He looks the goods. I cant wait to see him develop.

Where do you see the highlights. You tube?
I want to see our boy pushing a footy into someones head!:D

[LostDoggy]

the afl websites draft tracker.

[Bulldog Revolution]

From watching the footage hes not only a great athlete but a great footballer aswell. Hes got a great kicking action. It made me laugh when he took a mark and pushed the ball into his opponents head.

He looks the goods. I cant wait to see him develop.

I liked him putting the ball in the guys face also, and thought it was a clinical setshot

Of course if a player doesn't look good in his 1 minute 35 highlights package then he is never going to look good, but nonetheless the kid looks talented. It was the selection we had to have

[The Coon Dog]

Interview (some of you may be able to view) with Jarrod Grant.

http://bigpondvideo.com/afl/42562

[bulldogtragic]

I'm exceptionally happy with this pick.

Mainly because there has been a trend to get super athletes and see if they can teach them footy.

Where Grant's beep tests were far less than Jesse Wells, but has natural football skills you cant teach. We should go back to this style thinking and drafting.

Looks good.

[Mofra]

Where Grant's beep tests were far less than Jesse Wells, but has natural football skills you cant teach. We should go back to this style thinking and drafting.
Grant led the TAC in contested marks last year, and is best mates with Skinny Everitt. Two more big ticks.

[westdog54]

Grant led the TAC in contested marks last year, and is best mates with Skinny Everitt. Two more big ticks.

That should be a hotly fought-out contest in the intra-club next year. Can't wait.

[Mantis]

Grant led the TAC in contested marks last year, and is best mates with Skinny Everitt. Two more big ticks.

Grant led the TAC in contested marks per game NOT total as he only played 8 games.

Hopefully it is a big spur for him that his best mate had a very successful first year and made the transition into open age footy with the minimum of fuss. I think this would be pretty re-assuring that a player you had played with for a fair while and someone you probably rate you game against is now an AFL player and looks to be a pretty good one at that.

[GVGjr]

Grant led the TAC in contested marks last year, and is best mates with Skinny Everitt. Two more big ticks.

He had the best average over his 8 games.

[Topdog]

He had the best average over his 8 games.

good enough for me to be excited.

[LostDoggy]

Hope he succeeds at AFL, cause he cant play golf. Check out you tube

[Ipaidmy200in89]

My mail is that the boy is in need of some direction and leadership.

Not sure the Stingrays are all that happy with him.

[The Coon Dog]

My mail is that the boy is in need of some direction and leadership.

Not sure the Stingrays are all that happy with him.

In what way?

[GVGjr]

In what way?

It might be best to take this offline. I have had this dicussion with 200in89 and it's probably not something we want to discuss here.

[The Coon Dog]

It might be best to take this offline. I have had this dicussion with 200in89 and it's probably not something we want to discuss here.

Fair enough.

[Dogs 24/7]

Back to Grant as a footballer, what would be realistic expectation for him in 2008? Would it be just some good footy for Williamstown much like Reid did for them in 2007?

[Mantis]

Back to Grant as a footballer, what would be realistic expectation for him in 2008? Would it be just some good footy for Williamstown much like Reid did for them in 2007?

Would be rapt if he plays 5 games later in the season. He is very slight and will get seriously man-handled if we play him to early.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Would be rapt if he plays 5 games later in the season. He is very slight and will get seriously man-handled if we play him to early.

He looks incredibly skinny from the photos we've seen, doesn't he? Looks almost literally, like a stick. Hopefully he doesn't suffer from Cam Wight's case of not being able to stack on the weight.

[LostDoggy]

Back to Grant as a footballer, what would be realistic expectation for him in 2008? Would it be just some good footy for Williamstown much like Reid did for them in 2007?

If he can slot a game or two in '08 that would be good progress, he will need some developement time at Williamstown first. He will be the better for it.

[LostDoggy]

creatine and protein shakes and he will be fine.

[wb_age]

along with some thick steaks and a heap of chicken. The kid will be fine!

[westdog54]

He looks incredibly skinny from the photos we've seen, doesn't he? Looks almost literally, like a stick. Hopefully he doesn't suffer from Cam Wight's case of not being able to stack on the weight.

Invite him round for dinner at The Dog's mum's place. He'll beef up in no time:D

[hujsh]

He looks incredibly skinny from the photos we've seen, doesn't he? Looks almost literally, like a stick. Hopefully he doesn't suffer from Cam Wight's case of not being able to stack on the weight.

He looks like the sick kid the team cheers up not the star CHF

[bulldogtragic]

I'm exceptionally happy with this pick.

Mainly because there has been a trend to get super athletes and see if they can teach them footy.

Where Grant's beep tests were far less than Jesse Wells, but has natural football skills you cant teach. We should go back to this style thinking and drafting.

Looks good.
Bump.

Seems 6 years gives us foresight to develop our opinions. Thought this context would add depth to the conversation.

[azabob]

Bump.

Seems 6 years gives us foresight to develop our opinions. Thought this context would add depth to the conversation.

So it is fair to say in six years he hasn't exactly matured?

Shame really, such high hopes for young Grant.

[F'scary]

Ouch!

[Eastdog]

Should we just give him a try. He might make our forward line a bit better.

[GVGjr]

Should we just give him a try. He might make our forward line a bit better.

The problem with Grant is that his body language us very poor when the game is not flowing for him. I think he will get a call up but he won't have earned it.

[LostDoggy]

Should we just give him a try. He might make our forward line a bit better.
I agree Eastdog, he should have already been givem some games, with ur fiward libe being so bad, play fir sine cinsecutive games and decide if we are keeping him or letting him go

[Eastdog]

I agree Eastdog, he should have already been givem some games, with ur fiward libe being so bad, play fir sine cinsecutive games and decide if we are keeping him or letting him go

That's the best way to see whether he has a future going forward with us.

[FrediKanoute]

He can't possibly do any worse!

[bornadog]

He can't possibly do any worse!

What are you talking about, whats wrong with 5 handballs for a game :D

[bulldogtragic]

What are you talking about, whats wrong with 5 handballs for a game :D
Stats can lie BAD. Were his hand balls inside 50 entries? Goal assists? Was he 100% effective? We're his hand balls running receives? We're his hand balls shots on goal even? Ok maybe not the last one :)

[G-Mo77]

Starting to get like the Facebook page in here. I know Cordy hasn't come along as well as we'd hoped but do we need to constantly berate him. There is a thread focused on Ayce already.

[Ajm86]

Sorry but grant doesn't cut it at elite level played a bit of footy with Brent prismall in my time and think he is due and worthy of another crack at elite level

[Scorlibo]

The problem with Grant is that his body language us very poor when the game is not flowing for him. I think he will get a call up but he won't have earned it.

He's a confidence player, that much has always been the case. That no one since he has arrived has shown any confidence in him as a forward target is ridiculous. Form isn't always a matter of working hard, getting rewards. Just as with many disciplines, you can work as hard as anything but if you don't believe in yourself or apply purpose to what you're doing then you'll never succeed. Different principles for different players - perhaps a concept that's yet to be grasped in football, or at least in our football department.

[bulldogtragic]

He's a confidence player, that much has always been the case. That no one since he has arrived has shown any confidence in him as a forward target is ridiculous. Form isn't always a matter of working hard, getting rewards. Just as with many disciplines, you can work as hard as anything but if you don't believe in yourself or apply purpose to what you're doing then you'll never succeed. Different principles for different players - perhaps a concept that's yet to be grasped in football, or at least in our football department.
Interesting Jack Watts has gone from "sack him" to "sign him". In his interview today he credits the support of a new coach and new environment in his form and confidence.

[LostDoggy]

Can't wait til we delist this bloke so we don't have to hear calls for his triumphant (!) return. Sounds a lot like the “Let's give Fev a go!” sentiment.

[bornadog]

Sorry but grant doesn't cut it at elite level played a bit of footy with Brent prismall in my time and think he is due and worthy of another crack at elite level

We don't need another Brent Prismall type of player in our team.

[FrediKanoute]

He's a confidence player, that much has always been the case. That no one since he has arrived has shown any confidence in him as a forward target is ridiculous. Form isn't always a matter of working hard, getting rewards. Just as with many disciplines, you can work as hard as anything but if you don't believe in yourself or apply purpose to what you're doing then you'll never succeed. Different principles for different players - perhaps a concept that's yet to be grasped in football, or at least in our football department.

I am with you on this. Grant has shown and delivered more in his 50 games than either Jones or Cordy, yet he languishes at Willi. I can't help but feel that he has been handled wrongly. Whe he came to the club he was asked what he wanted to be and his response was to be the number one forward. his sort of confidence was enough to convince Eade to go with him. Under Eade, as a foil for Barry he did ok. Yeah he had ok games, but he was a handy player for the team. One thing though he didn't get into the Senior side on the back of ripping it up at Willy.

Since Eade left he has gone backwards. I can't help but see this year as a waste for him and in many ways a waste for us. Its easy to say he needs to change and fit into the new culture at the club, but I think that there is often an argument that guys with talent (and he does have talent) need to be given a little bit more free reign. Its a balance, but given the amount of early draft picks we have burnt over the last 8 years I can't help but think that its not all the individuals fault.

[Hot_Doggies]

I am with you on this. Grant has shown and delivered more in his 50 games than either Jones or Cordy, yet he languishes at Willi. I can't help but feel that he has been handled wrongly. Whe he came to the club he was asked what he wanted to be and his response was to be the number one forward. his sort of confidence was enough to convince Eade to go with him. Under Eade, as a foil for Barry he did ok. Yeah he had ok games, but he was a handy player for the team. One thing though he didn't get into the Senior side on the back of ripping it up at Willy.

Since Eade left he has gone backwards. I can't help but see this year as a waste for him and in many ways a waste for us. Its easy to say he needs to change and fit into the new culture at the club, but I think that there is often an argument that guys with talent (and he does have talent) need to be given a little bit more free reign. Its a balance, but given the amount of early draft picks we have burnt over the last 8 years I can't help but think that its not all the individuals fault.

Get your hand off it Fredi!

Cordy i agree, but not in the same league as Jones.

[Topdog]

He has delivered more than Jones.

[Hot_Doggies]

Are we including his under 18's highlight package?

Grant has hardly held a mark in the AFL. To say he has delivered more than Jones is staggering.

[Topdog]

Grant has played 1 less game and had more kicks, handballs, marks, tackles, goals and behinds.

[SonofScray]

Are we including his under 18's highlight package?

Grant has hardly held a mark in the AFL. To say he has delivered more than Jones is staggering.

Kicked more goals, had more possessions going to make an assumption he's held a similar amount of marks, certainly hangers, probably laid more tackles.

The issue with Grant isn't himself. The perception of Grant relative to our desire for a white knight KPF has been his unravelling.

He is a natural goal kicker, we don't have many of them on the list.

[bornadog]

Are we including his under 18's highlight package?

Grant has hardly held a mark in the AFL. To say he has delivered more than Jones is staggering.


Grant has played 1 less game and had more kicks, handballs, marks, tackles, goals and behinds.

yep averages 4.6 marks a game, which is more than our entire forward line at the momement.

[azabob]

He has delivered more than Jones.


Grant has played 1 less game and had more kicks, handballs, marks, tackles, goals and behinds.


yep averages 4.6 marks a game, which is more than our entire forward line at the momement.

Grant also played in a much better team that was a top four team, rather than a bottom four team.

I don't think we are comparing apples with apples.

[Sedat]

Can't wait til we delist this bloke so we don't have to hear calls for his triumphant (!) return. Sounds a lot like the “Let's give Fev a go!” sentiment.
Don't disagree with your general sentiment, but with a couple of our young draftees really labouring towards the tail end of their first AFL season, there is literally nothing to lose by giving Grant a 3-4 week run at it. The worst that will happen is that he fails to deliver and is delisted at the end of the season, which is precisely what is going to happen anyway if he doesn't play. Conversely, if he plays well his currency increases and we can trade him for some semblance of value during the trade period, and if by some miracle he blitzes he can always get offered a new contract.

[Greystache]

Since Eade left he has gone backwards. I can't help but see this year as a waste for him and in many ways a waste for us. Its easy to say he needs to change and fit into the new culture at the club, but I think that there is often an argument that guys with talent (and he does have talent) need to be given a little bit more free reign. Its a balance, but given the amount of early draft picks we have burnt over the last 8 years I can't help but think that its not all the individuals fault.

He actually went backwards Eade's last year in charge. After a promising 2010, in 2011 he played 16 games and kicked 16 goals and played a mix of seniors and reserves. He especially struggled when Hall was injured and he was getting a better player playing on him. He followed up last year with 12 goals in 12 games and again struggled when having to play against a better opponent. His form line has been downward for 3 years, I can't understand the calls that McCartney has somehow ruined him.

If he had to put up with the delivery and opposition attention Jones has his stats would look decidedly poorer.

[LostDoggy]

He actually went backwards Eade's last year in charge. After a promising 2010, in 2011 he played 16 games and kicked 16 goals and played a mix of seniors and reserves. He especially struggled when Hall was injured and he was getting a better player playing on him. He followed up last year with 12 goals in 12 games and again struggled when having to play against a better opponent. His form line has been downward for 3 years, I can't understand the calls that McCartney has somehow ruined him.

If he had to put up with the delivery and opposition attention Jones has his stats would look decidedly poorer.

That's exactly right. Easy to pick up more stats when you have Barry Hall taking the attention of the best defenders from you.

There is a general feeling of “what have we got to lose by playing him?” and my answer would be team culture: when the chips are down, and we lack options, we WILL give you a go, even though you've looked for 3 years like you don't give a shit.

I'd rather the club come out and say, “This is our philosophy, which we're losing quite a few games at the moment trying to instill, and you know what? We're going to stick to something, just once, despite the fact we're going to lose some games and the fans are going berserk, we believe in what we say and we have the balls to stand by our word.”

I don't give a rat's arse if he kicks 15 a week at Williamstown, if he's not meeting the non-negotiables, you don't play him. That's why they're called “non-negotiables”.

[bornadog]

I don't give a rat's arse if he kicks 15 a week at Williamstown, if he's not meeting the non-negotiables, you don't play him. That's why they're called “non-negotiables”.

What are the non-negotiables you talk about ?

Lets stick with someone like Cordy who I am afraid just doesn't cut it at FF. ( BTW: I am not saying Grant is a FF) what I am saying is Cordy gets a game and he doesn't deserve it, but I guess that's sticking to the philosophy.

[Sedat]

He actually went backwards Eade's last year in charge. After a promising 2010, in 2011 he played 16 games and kicked 16 goals and played a mix of seniors and reserves. He especially struggled when Hall was injured and he was getting a better player playing on him. He followed up last year with 12 goals in 12 games and again struggled when having to play against a better opponent. His form line has been downward for 3 years, I can't understand the calls that McCartney has somehow ruined him.
Agreed. He actually started his downward spiral in the 2010 finals series, when he didn't get a kick against Collingwood in the QF (had plenty of mates that night) and then really struggled against Sydney the following week and St Kilda in the PF. He hasn't been able to raise his game with the increase in attention. However he has shown sufficient talent at this level to have kicked 6 goals in a game and several bags of 3+ as well, which is light years ahead of others who have been given more opportunities up forward in the last couple of years (notable Cordy and Markovic).

BMac hasn't ruined him but it would be fair to say he hasn't had as much of a sustained run at it under BMac compared to the likes of Cordy, Markovic and Dickson - of these 3, only Dickson has certainly performed in enough games to justify his place in the team in the forward line ahead of Grant. Of course Grant is primarily responsible for not being able to grab his chance to shine in the seniors, but we've now reached the stage where absolutely all other avenues have been exhausted and there is nothing but upside in playing Grant for a month.

[Greystache]

Agreed. He actually started his downward spiral in the 2010 finals series, when he didn't get a kick against Collingwood in the QF (had plenty of mates that night) and then really struggled against Sydney the following week and St Kilda in the PF. He hasn't been able to raise his game with the increase in attention. However he has shown sufficient talent at this level to have kicked 6 goals in a game and several bags of 3+ as well, which is light years ahead of others who have been given more opportunities up forward in the last couple of years (notable Cordy and Markovic).

I thought that 6 goal game might have given him the confidence to make it as a player, but it should be remembered it was with Courtnay Dempsey playing full back in a team who's coach was publicly privately being knifed and were completely dispirited going into the last game of the season.

Other than that game he's actually only kicked more than 2 goals 3 times in his 50 games, including the 3 cheapies he got coming on as the sub against Geelong late last year.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

With an inactive forward line for most of the year, you would have to think BMcC has given up on Grant. It makes you wonder why he was retained on the list other than the fact that Grant may have still been contracted for this year.There is little doubt that our attack needs revamping with both Cordy and perhaps Stringer needing to go back to Williamstown. Other than Grant there is few other options available at the moment. I am still to be convinced that he is good enough but perhaps given our situation might be worth one last chance.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The point that BAD and others are making is not that Grant is a saviour or demanding of a senior spot. It's that others (Cordy and Markovic) are afforded opportunities when they have done far less than Grant has ever done.

It's an extreme case of favoritism.

[Greystache]

The point that BAD and others are making is not that Grant is a saviour or demanding of a senior spot. It's that others (Cordy and Markovic) are afforded opportunities when they have done far less than Grant has ever done.

It's an extreme case of favoritism.

I keep hearing how Cordy is being favoured over Grant and I still can't understand how people draw the comparison. Cordy rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my opinion) is being picked to play a specific role- 2nd ruck/forward, Grant cannot play that role so they're not like for like.

It's like saying Campbell can't get a game because they're favouring Dahlhaus over him.

[bulldogtragic]

Even if he comes in, it's too late. I think we should do the honourable thing and trade him to a club that wants him. If its pick 120 so be it. Like Josh Hill before him, put him in a talented side where he has the 4th defender, he will be more than serviceable. He is stagnating in his development with us and he is taking a spot on the list which I'm sure the coach would rather replace. Best case for everyone at a guess.

[anfo27]

That's exactly right. Easy to pick up more stats when you have Barry Hall taking the attention of the best defenders from you.

There is a general feeling of “what have we got to lose by playing him?” and my answer would be team culture: when the chips are down, and we lack options, we WILL give you a go, even though you've looked for 3 years like you don't give a shit.

I'd rather the club come out and say, “This is our philosophy, which we're losing quite a few games at the moment trying to instill, and you know what? We're going to stick to something, just once, despite the fact we're going to lose some games and the fans are going berserk, we believe in what we say and we have the balls to stand by our word.”

I don't give a rat's arse if he kicks 15 a week at Williamstown, if he's not meeting the non-negotiables, you don't play him. That's why they're called “non-negotiables”.

Well said.

Lets stop comparing Grant to Cordy. We have other options in Grants position while Cordy doesn't have anyone competing for his role at the minute. Cordy has Williams (injured), Campbell (more a ruckman), Roberts (injured) & Markovic (useless), no wonder he gets a game every week.

[bornadog]

Well said.

Lets stop comparing Grant to Cordy. We have other options in Grants position while Cordy doesn't have anyone competing for his role at the minute. Cordy has Williams (injured), Campbell (more a ruckman), Roberts (injured) & Markovic (useless), no wonder he gets a game every week.

Roberts is not injured, played in the Dev team last week and kicked 3.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I keep hearing how Cordy is being favoured over Grant and I still can't understand how people draw the comparison. Cordy rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my opinion) is being picked to play a specific role- 2nd ruck/forward, Grant cannot play that role so they're not like for like.

It's like saying Campbell can't get a game because they're favouring Dahlhaus over him.

We'd be better off using Dahlhaus to play the second ruck/forward role, that's how effective Cordy is.

I'd rather we go small and use Jones (or Talia, or whoever) to pinch hit in the ruck because Cordy is of no value in any role on the ground right now. To say "well, we need him so he can play second ruck/forward" is thinking of an excuse to play him. Nobody is saying Cordy and Grant are "like for like", we are comparing their situation.

Dahlhaus not getting dropped after a 6-8 week poor form patch is another (and more comparable to Grant) situation. He played well v GWS, but he had to eventually at some point.

The reality is that some players are given string, others are not.

[anfo27]

Roberts is not injured, played in the Dev team last week and kicked 3.

Yeah i know that but he is coming back from injury. Would have him in instead of Cordy in a heartbeat.

[Greystache]

We'd be better off using Dahlhaus to play the second ruck/forward role, that's how effective Cordy is.

No argument there, Cordy can't play and never could. If he makes even a decent fist of AFL footy it just proves if you put 7 years of full time training and development into any generic tall kids with even moderate athleticism you can produce a footballer. We could have achieved the same with Eddie Prato if he was given the same amount of time. The point is obviously the coaching staff want to try to develop someone to play this role and see Cordy as the best fit. In a development year they're obviously prepared to take the pain in the hope of a return on their investment. Grant just doesn't fit the same criteria.

We may well see Roberts come in to replace Cordy when he's ready, even if he hasn't earned it.

[LostDoggy]

What are the non-negotiables you talk about ?

Lets stick with someone like Cordy who I am afraid just doesn't cut it at FF. ( BTW: I am not saying Grant is a FF) what I am saying is Cordy gets a game and he doesn't deserve it, but I guess that's sticking to the philosophy.

Getting your sleeves dirty.


I keep hearing how Cordy is being favoured over Grant and I still can't understand how people draw the comparison. Cordy rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my opinion) is being picked to play a specific role- 2nd ruck/forward, Grant cannot play that role so they're not like for like.

It's like saying Campbell can't get a game because they're favouring Dahlhaus over him.

Grant should have something more to his bow than not being Ayce Cordy.

I said it before and I mean it: if they play Grant, I'll be staying home.

[Topdog]

I said it before and I mean it: if they play Grant, I'll be staying home.

Yet your OK watching Markovic and Cordy walk around?

[bornadog]

Yet your OK watching Markovic and Cordy walk around?

double standards :D

[FrediKanoute]

Grant v Cordy
Cordy v Grant
Good bloke v larrikan
Right team person v skilled individual
does team things but has no impact v doesn't do team things and kicks a bag
does team things but has no impact v doesn't do team things and doesn't get a touch
getting games because you earn it v being given opportunities to get experience

At the end of the day lets forget that both these guys are high draft picks, because in many ways this is the curse that is hanging over their necks. Lets just see what both can offer. Faith is a funny thing. People generally perform better in a environment where they feel competition for places, but that also supports their ability to develop.

Writing both these guys off is the sureest way to make sure they both fail. If we had a cupboard full of Reid's, Boyd's, Franklin's etc I wouldn't care, but when you go to our cupboard all you have to pull out to replace them with is a Marcovic, Campbell and an Austin.......probably all good blokes, but lets face it none likely to make that much difference to the side.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No argument there, Cordy can't play and never could. If he makes even a decent fist of AFL footy it just proves if you put 7 years of full time training and development into any generic tall kids with even moderate athleticism you can produce a footballer. We could have achieved the same with Eddie Prato if he was given the same amount of time. The point is obviously the coaching staff want to try to develop someone to play this role and see Cordy as the best fit. In a development year they're obviously prepared to take the pain in the hope of a return on their investment. Grant just doesn't fit the same criteria.

We may well see Roberts come in to replace Cordy when he's ready, even if he hasn't earned it.

Agreed.

The question I'd like to ask is what do they see in Cordy that the majority of us don't? And by that, I don't want to hear the stock standard "he's a good, tall, young kid with a great attitude who needs time" because Stevie Wonder can see Cordy hasn't improved from day one.

It's almost as though we don't want to accept the fact that we blew another first round pick. Although the second ruck/forward role has become important in recent years, the same philosophy should apply to talls: don't play them just because they're tall. If they're no good, we're better off playing another runner and plugging holes"

[LostDoggy]

Yet your OK watching Markovic and Cordy walk around?

Because Cordy and Markovic, whilst not quite showing they have what it takes, are at least giving it a go. Grant has all the talent he needs, he just lacks any drive or guts.

I'm fine with watching someone useless. Watching somebody who's lazy, though…

[Mantis]

Because Cordy and Markovic, whilst not quite showing they have what it takes, are at least giving it a go. Grant has all the talent he needs, he just lacks any drive or guts.

I'm fine with watching someone useless. Watching somebody who's lazy, though…

What's your definition of lazy?

If you are going to have a go at Grant for being lazy you could easily group in at least 10 of our more regular players with him.

[Ghost Dog]

Trade bait.

[Scorlibo]

No argument there, Cordy can't play and never could. If he makes even a decent fist of AFL footy it just proves if you put 7 years of full time training and development into any generic tall kids with even moderate athleticism you can produce a footballer. We could have achieved the same with Eddie Prato if he was given the same amount of time. The point is obviously the coaching staff want to try to develop someone to play this role and see Cordy as the best fit. In a development year they're obviously prepared to take the pain in the hope of a return on their investment. Grant just doesn't fit the same criteria.

I was quite pleased with how Roughead was coming along in this role before the coach decided he needed to play full back (leaving Austin and Markovic to vie with Cordy for the second ruck/forward role - despite both of them having shown some promise as solid key defensive options). There are other options.



I said it before and I mean it: if they play Grant, I'll be staying home.

What a churlish position to take. No one on this forum knows how hard Grant, or any other player, works. Like I stated previously, if good form was simply a matter of working hard, these discussions would be rather simple, but it's not. Grant needs to be shown some faith, he needs to rediscover the inner arrogance, because with it will come purpose in his footy.

I said it in another thread, this club is terrible at developing and managing players. We're crying out for players in the 23-27 age bracket, yet we had 9 players who we've drafted in this bracket play on the weekend.

Dickson, Cooney, Griffen.

Ray, Everitt, Hill, Harbrow, Ward, Reid.

[bornadog]

I was quite pleased with how Roughead was coming along in this role before the coach decided he needed to play full back (leaving Austin and Markovic to vie with Cordy for the second ruck/forward role - despite both of them having shown some promise as solid key defensive options). There are other options.



What a churlish position to take. No one on this forum knows how hard Grant, or any other player, works. Like I stated previously, if good form was simply a matter of working hard, these discussions would be rather simple, but it's not. Grant needs to be shown some faith, he needs to rediscover the inner arrogance, because with it will come purpose in his footy.

I said it in another thread, this club is terrible at developing and managing players. We're crying out for players in the 23-27 age bracket, yet we had 9 players who we've drafted in this bracket play on the weekend.

Dickson, Cooney, Griffen.

Ray, Everitt, Hill, Harbrow, Ward, Reid.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/35737899-14a4-4e21-9cf1-cd578bf57c0d_zpsa9fd436f.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/mmsalih/media/35737899-14a4-4e21-9cf1-cd578bf57c0d_zpsa9fd436f.jpg.html)

[Topdog]

Because Cordy and Markovic, whilst not quite showing they have what it takes, are at least giving it a go. Grant has all the talent he needs, he just lacks any drive or guts.

I'm fine with watching someone useless. Watching somebody who's lazy, though…

Grant runs around just as much as Cordy. Honestly Cordy barely moves.

[LostDoggy]

Grant is at least a fast runner and could be a replacement for our fastest player JJ who won't be playing this week or next or the next etc.

[LostDoggy]

The issue with Grant is simple for me - when he learns to play his role in the team, especially when he doesn't have the ball, then he will deserve a game. There will be specific things that he has to do that he doesn't do, which is why he isn't in the senior team. Geelong and the Swans are successful because you learn your role at a lower level - and when you can do it consistently to the satisfaction of the MC you will be selected. You then can slot straight into your role. You will know what you are expected to do.

If Grant goes missing for parts of a game and does not chase or go to where he is supposed to defensively, then he stays in the seconds. Dickson, on the other hand, even though he may have an off day, tries to do the things the coach wants him to, such as leading up the ground, moving around and providing an option, tackling and chasing.

[Ghost Dog]

I can't wait until the day we can stop discussing if Jarrad Grant is going to make it or not. One way or the other.

[Topdog]

Good to see him in the squad.

[azabob]

Good to see him in the squad.

I think he is named at FF, so he is playing.

[SlimPickens]

I think he is named at FF.

Scorlibo will be happy:D!

[always right]

Huge test for Grant. I think we are going to be absolutely thumped on Sunday and opportunities may be scarce for our forwards. I think Grant needs to be measured on his effort, attitude and team assists rather than the number of goals/posessions he gets.

[Mantis]

Huge test for Grant. I think we are going to be absolutely thumped on Sunday and opportunities may be scarce for our forwards. I think Grant needs to be measured on his effort, attitude and team assists rather than the number of goals/posessions he gets.

Yep.

If the plan was to play him this year, he really should have played last week to allow him to get his hands on the ball... Might be slim pickings this week... and perhaps worse the following week so hopefully the effort is there. Perhaps a run in defence (where he performed ok last year) might help him get into the game if he is being starved of service up front.

[LongWait]

Yep.

If the plan was to play him this year, he really should have played last week to allow him to get his hands on the ball... Might be slim pickings this week... and perhaps worse the following week so hopefully the effort is there. Perhaps a run in defence (where he performed ok last year) might help him get into the game if he is being starved of service up front.

I've heard we are keen to see him perform on the wing - perhaps not this game, but I don't think that the MC are quite as down on Grant as some supporters are.

The draft thins out very quickly after the top 20 to 25 according to some, so now would not be the time to trade Grant if a pick in the fourth round is all we can get for him. He has probably shown too much to simply delist him, so why not try to use his pace and sticky hands somewhere up the ground a bit?

[Ghost Dog]

I've heard we are keen to see him perform on the wing - perhaps not this game, but I don't think that the MC are quite as down on Grant as some supporters are.

The draft thins out very quickly after the top 20 to 25 according to some, so now would not be the time to trade Grant if a pick in the fourth round is all we can get for him. He has probably shown too much to simply delist him, so why not try to use his pace and sticky hands somewhere up the ground a bit?

Don't care where he plays, as long as he does that...performs!

[always right]

I've heard we are keen to see him perform on the wing - perhaps not this game, but I don't think that the MC are quite as down on Grant as some supporters are.

So why is this his first game for the year?

[LostDoggy]

So why is this his first game for the year?

Because he's shown nothing in the magoos.

Please J Grant. Show me I'm wrong. Show your knockers what a star you are. Get out there and kick 3 goals a week for the rest of the year. Be all you can be and emerge from your mental cocoon into the blossoming, beautiful trade bait that's been growing inside you.

Return the faith; get out there and earn Tom Boyd for our great club.

[G-Mo77]

I've heard we are keen to see him perform on the wing - perhaps not this game, but I don't think that the MC are quite as down on Grant as some supporters are.

The draft thins out very quickly after the top 20 to 25 according to some, so now would not be the time to trade Grant if a pick in the fourth round is all we can get for him. He has probably shown too much to simply delist him, so why not try to use his pace and sticky hands somewhere up the ground a bit?

Thanks for sharing LongWait. Your insightful comments are missed around here. Hope you can find the time to post in here more often.

I did hear from a friend last night that Grant was been ill and hasn't been able to get match fit. He's got no Bulldogs inside knowledge but heard it from a friend of a friend at Williamstown. (Yeah I know, purple monkey dishwasher included) Probably nothing in it but worth noting. Heard anything like that at all?

[bornadog]

Thanks for sharing LongWait. Your insightful comments are missed around here. Hope you can find the time to post in here more often.

I did hear from a friend last night that Grant was been ill and hasn't been able to get match fit. He's got no Bulldogs inside knowledge but heard it from a friend of a friend at Williamstown. (Yeah I know, purple monkey dishwasher included) Probably nothing in it but worth noting. Heard anything like that at all?

Macca has said many times throughout the past month that he was injured and he was still getting back into it. Perhaps injury = ill.

[G-Mo77]

Macca has said many times throughout the past month that he was injured and he was still getting back into it. Perhaps injury = ill.

Yeah probably right.

[ReLoad]

I think the number 1 jumper should be retired after he is traded/delisted. We haven't had a lot of luck of late with it, it clearly needs a spell.

[bornadog]

I think the number 1 jumper should be retired after he is traded/delisted. We haven't had a lot of luck of late with it, it clearly needs a spell.

lets see, just turned 24, presume he plays another 6 years and then retire the jumper :D

[bulldogtragic]

1st Quarter

Good lead, mark, quick hands, leading to i50
Good lead 30 out, Gia kicks over his head, mops up with handball
Read play well, quick snap at goal (misses)
Good lead, mark, kicks inside 50
Snap, goal!

QTR: 2 marks, 2 hand balls, 3 kicks, 1 inside 50


2nd Quarter

Long kick inside 50
Long kick inside 50, ineffective
Contested mark! Kick, inside 50
Good lead, kicked over his head
Mark, kick to Gia who marks
Inside work, 2 hand balls, kick inside 50, ineffective
Good lead inside 50, over head

QTR: 5 kicks, 2 marks (1 cont), 2 hand balls, 3 inside 50's
Tally: (8 kicks, 4 marks (1 cont), 4 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 1 goal)

3rd Quarter

Massive space 20 out, shite kick misses him
Pressure, holds ball in at fwd 50
Great pick up, kick, teammate marks
Gets ball in pocket, doesn't snap at goal, goes to top of square, no one there
Hunter ignores great lead
Inside work 30 out, handball, gets back, kick, goal assist!
Good pick up on wing, look away handball to adv

QTR: 3 kicks, 2 hand balls, 1 goal assist
Tally: 11 kicks, 4 marks (1 cont), 6 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 1 goal assist, 1 goal

4th Quarter

Drops mark, recovers quick with handball to adv
35 out in space, Goodes ignores
Marks 45 out, handball to Goodes, goal assist
Enormous tackle!! Gets turnover

QTR: 1 mark, 2 hand balls, 1 goal assist, 1 sensational tackle leading to turnover

Game: 11 kicks, 5 marks (1 cont), 8 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 2 goal assist, 2 tackles, 1 goal


Welcome back Granty!

[FrediKanoute]

1st Quarter

Good lead, mark, quick hands, leading to i50
Good lead 30 out, Gia kicks over his head, mops up with handball
Read play well, quick snap at goal
Good lead, mark, kicks inside 50
Snap, goal!

QTR: 2 marks, 2 hand balls, 3 kicks, 1 inside 50


2nd Quarter

Long kick inside 50
Long kick inside 50, ineffective
Contested mark! Kick, inside 50
Good lead, kicked over his head
Mark, kick to Gia who marks
Inside work, 2 hand balls, kick inside 50, ineffective
Good lead inside 50, over head

QTR: 5 kicks, 2 marks (1 cont), 2 hand balls, 3 inside 50's
Tally: (8 kicks, 4 marks (1 cont), 4 hand balls, 4 inside 50's)

So far better than the options we have tried up front this year.

[Pickenitup]

Well done Granty played well HE Is just what this side needs!

[Templeton31]

He's not the messiah but today was a fair bit better than most else we've dished up this season. I think especially because he's a reasonable link and spread player which is a weakness of ours. Certainly a mile better than Cordy last week.

[LostDoggy]

I've been a big critic. He did well today. Well done Jarrad. Best game at any level this year!

[GVGjr]

I've been a big critic. He did well today. Well done Jarrad. Best game at any level this year!

He should now be given an extended run at it but he must maintain his intensity. Grant, Stringer and Jones could work very well for us next week.

[bulldogtragic]

He's not the messiah but today was a fair bit better than most else we've dished up this season. I think especially because he's a reasonable link and spread player which is a weakness of ours. Certainly a mile better than Cordy last week.
If he could maintain this week in and out I'd be stoked. He got 75 on dream team today. In comparison Cordy averages 37, Jones 48, Stringer 44, Dickson 61, Dahl 62, Gia 66. Consistency and application is now required!

I agree he's not the messiah. But the message has to be this is he minimum required. I thought he was very good today, as did BMac.

[LostDoggy]

Adds something different to our forward structure.
Better than having an immobile ruckman in the goal square, even though Campbell is in good vfl form, I'd persevere with Grant as the lead up forward.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's not the messiah but today was a fair bit better than most else we've dished up this season. I think especially because he's a reasonable link and spread player which is a weakness of ours. Certainly a mile better than Cordy last week.

Better than Cordy any and every week. ;)

Encouraging game today, particularly given he drew a very good defender. Today's form is how he was able to get under the guard of opposition sides in 2010 and kick 30+ goals. He won't be able to do that with our side as it stands currently, but a few solid options around him, and he's capable of being a good player at AFL level.

Key is consistency to maintain belief/faith from not only coaches and players alike, but himself.

[G-Mo77]

He should now be given an extended run at it but he must maintain his intensity. Grant, Stringer and Jones could work very well for us next week.

I really hope Stringer comes in at some stage and get all 3 together. Grant's a tall but he has some pace and can cause a few headaches. I'd play him the rest of the year unless something drastic happens in that time.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

It would be a tragedy for the club and Jarrad if he is not able to earn a regular spot. He is a natural footballer and has great hands, quick reactions, great mark and is fast. He is developing team awareness and I hope he can earn the faith of the coach and the supporters. I've got to say he looks awkward, I mean the skull and the ears, and this can be off putting sending out an alien to represent the club. However we must rise above this childish but natural perception and have faith in him and control our impulse to expect a lot of him yet to be ashamed of him.
He will have huge cult status if he makes it; an outstanding physical character.

[westdog54]

I will say this, he is probably only behind Libba in the 'least likely to fumble' category. Hands are just so sharp at ground level, barely lets anything past.

Was very impressed with what I saw today. He's got the passion back and it was wonderful to watch.

[EasternWest]

I will say this, he is probably only behind Libba in the 'least likely to fumble' category. Hands are just so sharp at ground level, barely lets anything past.

Was very impressed with what I saw today. He's got the passion back and it was wonderful to watch.

Rubber chest though :).

[SonofScray]

Well done Grant on a solid return to footy. He has the skill set to be a damaging player and I believe he can make it with us. I felt he was dangerous inside 50 when the ball came in low and quick, or spilled out of the pack.

Most impressive in the scrap off the ball and a few efforts where he worked right up the field and pushed hard back to present numerous times. Ignored by a few as well.

[jeemak]

Rubber chest though :).

That was an horrendous ball to try and mark. It changed its flight about six times in its journey to him and had horrible spin on it.

I was pretty happy with his performance today. It was a great start and as others have said, needs to form the basis of expectation for him to move forwards with.

[BulldogBelle]

Jarrad Grant ‏@jarradgrant1 1h
Appreciate the positivity from people this week. Boys did a lot right tonight, still want 4 points though! #godogs

His hands are elite!

[Eastdog]

Jarrad Grant ‏@jarradgrant1 1h
Appreciate the positivity from people this week. Boys did a lot right tonight, still want 4 points though! #godogs

His hands are elite!

Grant should definitely be in the team for the rest of the season. I really hope he can make it with us.

[bulldogtragic]

Jarrad Grant ‏@jarradgrant1 1h
Appreciate the positivity from people this week. Boys did a lot right tonight, still want 4 points though! #godogs

His hands are elite!
How was that pick up running down back in the third, sensational. Then teddies and kicks to a marking teammate!

Good to see he's humble for the backing he's been getting from the masses. Flys in the face of a attitude problem.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought he showed some good signs today, hopefully it gives him the confidence to continue to step it up over the balance of the season.

[GVGjr]

I thought he showed some good signs today, hopefully it gives him the confidence to continue to step it up over the balance of the season.

I see it a bit differently. I don't think confidence is his issue it's more about accepting that he needs to work bloody hard to maintain his position.
Talent and athleticism got him drafted but now it's down to his work ethic and attitude to ensure he keeps getting picked.

He simply can't go back to relying on his talent and promise alone.

[Eastdog]

I see it a bit differently. I don't think confidence is his issue it's more about accepting that he needs to work bloody hard to maintain his position.
Talent and athleticism got him drafted but now it's down to his work ethic and attitude to ensure he keeps getting picked.

He simply can't go back to relying on his talent and promise alone.

How have you rated him this year at Willi.

[GVGjr]

How have you rated him this year at Willi.

Like most other years. A big gap between his best and worst. He deserved his spot today and more than did his job.

[Go_Dogs]

I see it a bit differently. I don't think confidence is his issue it's more about accepting that he needs to work bloody hard to maintain his position.
Talent and athleticism got him drafted but now it's down to his work ethic and attitude to ensure he keeps getting picked.

He simply can't go back to relying on his talent and promise alone.

Definitely agree with that - I might be reading him wrong but I feel his confidence is linked to his work ethic and intent. When he drops his head he can look disinterested.

As you say, he needs to continue to work hard to make sure his natural abilities get the chance to shine.

[jeemak]

I see it a bit differently. I don't think confidence is his issue it's more about accepting that he needs to work bloody hard to maintain his position.
Talent and athleticism got him drafted but now it's down to his work ethic and attitude to ensure he keeps getting picked.

He simply can't go back to relying on his talent and promise alone.

Every single elite player at the top level is renowned for their hard work and professionalism. If working extremely hard, and preparing physically and mentally for each game is good enough for elite players it is certainly good enough for Grant.

[GVGjr]

Every single elite player at the top level is renowned for their hard work and professionalism. If working extremely hard, and preparing physically and mentally for each game is good enough for elite players it is certainly good enough for Grant.

I just haven't seen enough of it. He's laconic and I get that but has he ever really shown that he wants to be elite? I think he's only got a about 70% out of his ability.
If he pushes himself harder he has a good chance to have a long career.

[azabob]

I just haven't seen enough of it. He's laconic and I get that but has he ever really shown that he wants to be elite? I think he's only got a about 70% out of his ability.
If he pushes himself harder he has a good chance to have a long career.

Ala Ablett at Geelong. Obviously they are in different levels ability wise but similar in others.

[jeemak]

I just haven't seen enough of it. He's laconic and I get that but has he ever really shown that he wants to be elite? I think he's only got a about 70% out of his ability.
If he pushes himself harder he has a good chance to have a long career.

I'm not sure Grant will ever be elite, based on his talent and physical make up.

I guess what I was getting at, was any player wishing to forge a successful career needs to work as hard as they possibly can. Like you, I'm uncertain as to whether he does that.

You, myself and many other WOOF posters have acknowledged Grant's best and worst are poles apart, and we probably all agree this is because of fluctuations within his attitude and work rate on the field.

If he goes on to the ground each week, and works as hard as he possibly can he'll be a success as he has sufficient talent and physical attributes to be a success. He'll not become an elite player, a very good player or a serviceable player otherwise.

[LostDoggy]

Jarrad Grant ‏@jarradgrant1 1h
Appreciate the positivity from people this week. Boys did a lot right tonight, still want 4 points though! #godogs

His hands are elite!

Positive twitter attitude tick.

[LostDoggy]

He did ok today, and I'm amongst his greatest critics.

Hawthorn may be a different story, however. Will hold my judgment for now.

[LostDoggy]

Congratulations to Jarad for doing a lot of things well today. Keep it up lad!

[Remi Moses]

Thought he was good today.

[Scorlibo]

I see it a bit differently. I don't think confidence is his issue it's more about accepting that he needs to work bloody hard to maintain his position.
Talent and athleticism got him drafted but now it's down to his work ethic and attitude to ensure he keeps getting picked.

He simply can't go back to relying on his talent and promise alone.

I don't understand how people can continue to pot his work ethic - how can you possibly gauge how hard he works? I think confidence/healthy aggression is the most important part of any player's game.

[westdog54]

Ala Ablett at Geelong. Obviously they are in different levels ability wise but similar in others.

In terms of work ethic I think its a good comparison.

It took a kick in the pants from his teammates for him to knuckle down and become the elite midfielder he is today.

Grant makes me think of a line from the movie Gladiator: "You're good, Spaniard, but you're not that good. You could be magnificent."

[craigsahibee]

1st Quarter

Good lead, mark, quick hands, leading to i50
Good lead 30 out, Gia kicks over his head, mops up with handball
Read play well, quick snap at goal (misses)
Good lead, mark, kicks inside 50
Snap, goal!

QTR: 2 marks, 2 hand balls, 3 kicks, 1 inside 50


2nd Quarter

Long kick inside 50
Long kick inside 50, ineffective
Contested mark! Kick, inside 50
Good lead, kicked over his head
Mark, kick to Gia who marks
Inside work, 2 hand balls, kick inside 50, ineffective
Good lead inside 50, over head

QTR: 5 kicks, 2 marks (1 cont), 2 hand balls, 3 inside 50's
Tally: (8 kicks, 4 marks (1 cont), 4 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 1 goal)

3rd Quarter

Massive space 20 out, shite kick misses him
Pressure, holds ball in at fwd 50
Great pick up, kick, teammate marks
Gets ball in pocket, doesn't snap at goal, goes to top of square, no one there
Hunter ignores great lead
Inside work 30 out, handball, gets back, kick, goal assist!
Good pick up on wing, look away handball to adv

QTR: 3 kicks, 2 hand balls, 1 goal assist
Tally: 11 kicks, 4 marks (1 cont), 6 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 1 goal assist, 1 goal

4th Quarter

Drops mark, recovers quick with handball to adv
35 out in space, Goodes ignores
Marks 45 out, handball to Goodes, goal assist
Enormous tackle!! Gets turnover

QTR: 1 mark, 2 hand balls, 1 goal assist, 1 sensational tackle leading to turnover

Game: 11 kicks, 5 marks (1 cont), 8 hand balls, 4 inside 50's, 2 goal assist, 2 tackles, 1 goal


Welcome back Granty!

Good analysis Mr Tragic, but please don't call him that.

There can be only one. ;)

[Ozza]

Grant played well.

This week will be much tougher to get a kick - but I think all we ask is that he consistently puts in the kind of effort and intensity he put out there yesterday.

Good luck to him if he does do that.

There is a glimmer of hope there.

[LostDoggy]

In terms of work ethic I think its a good comparison.

It took a kick in the pants from his teammates for him to knuckle down and become the elite midfielder he is today.

Grant makes me think of a line from the movie Gladiator: "You're good, Spaniard, but you're not that good. You could be magnificent."

I think it could be a case of he didn't have to work hard in football so he doesn't know how to push himself. Ablett also fell under this, he thought he was working hard enough but he actually wasn't because he didn't know what a professional work ethic was. Coaches gotta find a way to get the message through to Grant.

People don't just play sport at a high level and think they're not gonna work hard, it's at a more sub conscious level of thinking than that.

[mighty_west]

When Grant plays well, like he did on the weekend, he looks elite, his hands are elite, all we can hope for is consistency and work ethic.

From the very first time he played, the first time I saw him at Casey fields in a praccy match for Willy, you could see straight off that he had something special about him and hands with super glue all over, just needs to pull his bloody finger out, hopefully the penny has dropped for him.

I REALLY hope he makes it, but I have my doubts.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Definitely agree with that - I might be reading him wrong but I feel his confidence is linked to his work ethic and intent. When he drops his head he can look disinterested.

As you say, he needs to continue to work hard to make sure his natural abilities get the chance to shine.

De ja vu with Josh Hill.

[ratsmac]

I am really happy that Grant took this opportunity that he probably thought would never come. He played a solid game and looked to have a bit of determination about him.
The jury is still out though. He has to prove to the footy world that he has what it takes at this level. Playing Essendon isn't a good yardstick to see if he is ready to take the next step because he has kicked bags against them a couple times from memory. He loves playing those cheats.
Well done Jarred, good game.

[Bulldog Joe]

I have been critical of Grant, but thought he played well. He does need to back it up now and as others have said it is about effort and intent.

[1eyedog]

Like many others I have wanted him to play for weeks and I'm glad he got the opportunity and did ok. He will be up against it against the Hawks but if he can maintain insensity and apply pressure he'll have done his job again. Goals will be an unexpected bonus for him this weekend.

[Ghost Dog]

Grant played well.

This week will be much tougher to get a kick - but I think all we ask is that he consistently puts in the kind of effort and intensity he put out there yesterday.

Good luck to him if he does do that.

There is a glimmer of hope there.

I'm not so sure! And I'm really pleased about it. If this side comes out to play as it did against Essendon, we'll put on a show. Barring the Melbourne game, we have a side that can push top eight sides, if not challenge, falling short on skill excecution. This is exactly where we should be in our development arc. Most pleasing, it shows the players are buying in.

Grant is the right type of forward for us at this time. Someone who can lead a long way down the ground to support the young mids, ( pretends to put on coaching hat ) and when he's running round, you always feel he has that power to win a chase down tackle. It's exciting and gives us a bit of pep in the forward line.

[ledge]

I can't believe his uncanny knack of shooting out the ball in a split second somehow to someone he can't even see and hitting them on the chest , quickest I have ever seen in that department, if only he could get the ball like Griffen does.

[bulldogtragic]

I can't believe his uncanny knack of shooting out the ball in a split second somehow to someone he can't even see and hitting them on the chest , quickest I have ever seen in that department, if only he could get the ball like Griffen does.
How good was his look away handball at full speed on the wing to advantage. Takes some talent.

[bornadog]

A different side to him:

U-muJHKCPVo&feature=share&list=UUCYdpsLzNPQpmOdZt_a7DNA

[LostDoggy]

I liked the fact that granty was one of the few players who was able to get separation on an opponent and thus become a leading target up the ground.

[SlimPickens]

I can't believe his uncanny knack of shooting out the ball in a split second somehow to someone he can't even see and hitting them on the chest , quickest I have ever seen in that department, if only he could get the ball like Griffen does.

Not watching Libba go about his craft at the moment?

[LostDoggy]

I liked the fact that granty was one of the few players who was able to get separation on an opponent and thus become a leading target up the ground.

Often wondered if he should have gone pick five in the NBA draft with that blind flick pass he does.

[ledge]

Not watching Libba go about his craft at the moment?

Of course, but it's just this awkward way Grant does it and his demeanour just doesn't come across he could do it,Grant has some really amazing attributes for a bloke not getting a game and Maccas right he needs consistency.
Can't see him getting delisted now to be honest.

[1eyedog]

Is he really that lazy?

Is he really that much of a dickhead?

Can't believe he has not been playing in the firsts all season given some of the players getting a run in front of him.

What was the MC thinking?

[LostDoggy]

Is he really that lazy?

Is he really that much of a dickhead?

Can't believe he has not been playing in the firsts all season given some of the players getting a run in front of him.

What was the MC thinking?

If you watch the press conference with BMac on the weekend he'll tell you — they were waiting for him to get some consistency in his game.

[1eyedog]

If you watch the press conference with BMac on the weekend he'll tell you — they were waiting for him to get some consistency in his game.

I've heard all that rubbish about consistency. Why were so many others getting a game, [who like Grant were certainly not dominating at VFL level] before him. Some players came back from injury and after a rusty VFL game were brought straight into the senior squad.

Addison, Cordy, Dickson (all who have played forward over the past month).

Then there is Wood who is being considered post-injury rehab??? What has Wood ever done to demand immediate selection?

Our forward line has been deplorable all year and we've tried Markovic, Roughead, Addision, Dickson and Cordy down there and all these players (bar Addision's 4 goals) had little form or consistency to play a role in the forward line at the time. I understand Addision is there for different reasons than Grant and Marko got on the end of a few lucky ones but gee whiz that consistency excuse doesn't wash with me at all. It would have been fine if there was some competition up forward that was keeping Grant out.

Markovic forward before Grant? Really?

[ledge]

I've heard all that rubbish about consistency. Why were so many others getting a game, [who like Grant were certainly not dominating at VFL level] before him. Some players came back from injury and after a rusty VFL game were brought straight into the senior squad.

Addison, Cordy, Dickson (all who have played forward over the past month).

Then there is Wood who is being considered post-injury rehab??? What has Wood ever done to demand immediate selection?

Our forward line has been deplorable all year and we've tried Markovic, Roughead, Addision, Dickson and Cordy down there and all these players (bar Addision's 4 goals) had little form or consistency to play a role in the forward line at the time. I understand Addision is there for different reasons than Grant and Marko got on the end of a few lucky ones but gee whiz that consistency excuse doesn't wash with me at all. It would have been fine if there was some competition up forward that was keeping Grant out.

Markovic forward before Grant? Really?

I think you will find he is talking about Grant being more consistent in himself, also keep in mind parts if a team are picked on who suits the opposition best

[Ozza]

I don't think you can really compare Markovic to Grant. Marko was being trialled as a back up ruck option. It didn't work - and he hasn't been in the team since. Similar with Cordy - who never played at the same time as Marko.

[1eyedog]

I don't think you can really compare Markovic to Grant. Marko was being trialled as a back up ruck option. It didn't work - and he hasn't been in the team since. Similar with Cordy - who never played at the same time as Marko.

I'm not. But both Cordy and Marko held forward positions for 95% of game time. IMO playing Grant forward 100% of game time outweighed playing either Cordy or Markovic in the ruck for 5-10% of game time.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I'm not. But both Cordy and Marko held forward positions for 95% of game time. IMO playing Grant forward 100% of game time outweighed playing either Cordy or Markovic in the ruck for 5-10% of game time.

The jury is still out on Grant IMO. I along with many others was surprised he survived the chop at the end of last year. For such an early draft pick it is fair to say that he has been disappointing. You would like to think that the form he showed against Essendon can be sustained over a longer period. The MC obviously had their doubts as well to leave him at Williamstown, when as you rightly said Markovic and Cordy were tried without success.
I hope for the Club's sake that Grant can become a regular with greater consistency which is desperately needed.

[KT31]

The jury is still out on Grant IMO. I along with many others was surprised he survived the chop at the end of last year. For such an early draft pick it is fair to say that he has been disappointing. You would like to think that the form he showed against Essendon can be sustained over a longer period. The MC obviously had their doubts as well to leave him at Williamstown, when as you rightly said Markovic and Cordy were tried without success.
I hope for the Club's sake that Grant can become a regular with greater consistency which is desperately needed.

I have taken the stance now that he will never live up to what is expected of his draft number.
But also realise we may be able to get a bit out of him and if he can slot into our best 22 and perform admirably each week it will be a victory.
We have really suffered from our pick in the past drafts and hopefully we can salvage something from Grant.
Worse comes to worse and he continues to perform like he did on the weekend, we may get a nibble in trade week.

[Ghost Dog]

There have been plenty of talented forwards, Jay Schultz among others, who fell short and didn't get going until they matured a bit as people. It would be cruel to see Grant flying along at another club, after we struggled with him for so long.

[LostDoggy]

There have been plenty of talented forwards, Jay Schultz among others, who fell short and didn't get going until they matured a bit as people. It would be cruel to see Grant flying along at another club, after we struggled with him for so long.

Yes, I think this is the factor that kept him down at Willy. Hopefully he's turned the corner.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't know how to link the official twitter feed, so here's the cut and paste of Macca on Grant today:


Jarrad Grant has a knack for making the difficult look easy, but the 24-year-old made the most of his senior opportunity in round 16 by focusing on the basics.

The crafty forward has worked closely with Western Bulldogs Senior Coach Brendan McCartney to add dimensions to his game this season and find consistency between performances.

“He’s been building some solid form in the VFL and that is what we wanted him to do and some of the things that we have been working on with him came out,” McCartney said.

“There’s some other things that he knows to progress the way he wants as a player, you’ve got to be pretty rounded now.

“You can’t be good in just one area of the game otherwise you don’t help the team function.

“We are still pretty optimistic of what he will become.”

[always right]

Doesn't sound like someone Macca is thinking of delisting.

[G-Mo77]

I don't know how to link the official twitter feed, so here's the cut and paste of Macca on Grant today:


Jarrad Grant has a knack for making the difficult look easy, but the 24-year-old made the most of his senior opportunity in round 16 by focusing on the basics.

The crafty forward has worked closely with Western Bulldogs Senior Coach Brendan McCartney to add dimensions to his game this season and find consistency between performances.

“He’s been building some solid form in the VFL and that is what we wanted him to do and some of the things that we have been working on with him came out,” McCartney said.

“There’s some other things that he knows to progress the way he wants as a player, you’ve got to be pretty rounded now.

“You can’t be good in just one area of the game otherwise you don’t help the team function.

“We are still pretty optimistic of what he will become.”

The full presser can be found here. Goes over Smith, Grant, Ball use, Player Development, Forward line, Tom Boyd/GWS, Roughead VS Roughead, Minson.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2013-07-18/press-conference-mccartney-18-july-13

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks GMo.

[F'scary]

Doesn't sound like someone Macca is thinking of delisting.

Trade bait talk up?

[ledge]

Trade bait talk up?

I don't think so after last weeks game.

[bulldogtragic]

By my stats today:

8 marks (4 inside 50)
10 kicks
5 shots on goal
6 hand balls (one look away special)
1 inside 50
3 score assists
3 tackles inside 50
1 tackle defence 50
1 free for (pressure leading to OOF in fwd pocket, shot on goal by Hrovat I think it was)
1 Goal
4 Behinds
9 score involvements out of 21 scores

[chef]

Yep, he was good. Hopefully he's turned the corner.

[bornadog]

How the hell did we play blokes like Campbell, Markovic, Dickson and Cordy ahead of this bloke.

Grant has really livened up the forward line.

[comrade]

How the hell did we play blokes like Campbell, Markovic, Dickson and Cordy ahead of this bloke.

Grant has really livened up the forward line.

Perhaps by putting him back in the pecking order it forced him to extract the digit and we're now seeing the results?

[Eastdog]

Even though I listed him as an anchor today mainly for his kicking at goal as a forward I agree yes that he was quite good.

[bulldogtragic]

How the hell did we play blokes like Campbell, Markovic, Dickson and Cordy ahead of this bloke.

Grant has really livened up the forward line.
Could be a chicken and egg argument?? Maybe Grant would not have produced two very good games like this if not for being overlooked.... Whatever, that's history, now we have to harness all his enormous talent and keep him at this level. He adds a massive dimension to the team IMO, so we need to look to he future with him in it.

[Rocco Jones]

Perhaps by putting him back in the pecking order it forced him to extract the digit and we're now seeing the results?

Yep.

Was speaking to a mate about Grant. He is definitely the type who plays to his level. He struggles to be ever dominant for Willy but then come out and do a good job for us. .

I didn't really doubt he could have a good first couple of games back for us. My real doubts comes after that. How he goes when he is truly back in the fold, getting a few games in the seniors. Grant has shown times before that he can be intense. The issue is with consistency

[bornadog]

Could be a chicken and egg argument?? Maybe Grant would not have produced two very good games like this if not for being overlooked.... Whatever, that's history, now we have to harness all his enormous talent and keep him at this level. He adds a massive dimension to the team IMO, so we need to look to he future with him in it.


Yep.

Was speaking to a mate about Grant. He is definitely the type who plays to his level. He struggles to be ever dominant for Willy but then come out and do a good job for us. .

I didn't really doubt he could have a good first couple of games back for us. My real doubts comes after that. How he goes when he is truly back in the fold, getting a few games in the seniors. Grant has shown times before that he can be intense. The issue is with consistency

Nahhh - he is producing his average career stats, that is how he plays, he is not a world beater, he is hard to matchup on. Give me a HFF anytime that takes 5 plus marks in the forward line and is involved in as many goals as he is.

[bulldogtragic]

Nahhh - he is producing his average career stats, that is how he plays, he is not a world beater, he is hard to matchup on. Give me a HFF anytime that takes 5 plus marks in the forward line and is involved in as many goals as he is.
Don't forget his Harlem globe trotting pick ups and dish offs :)

I love him for that alone!

[Rocco Jones]

Nahhh - he is producing his average career stats, that is how he plays, he is not a world beater, he is hard to matchup on. Give me a HFF anytime that takes 5 plus marks in the forward line and is involved in as many goals as he is.

Yeah, I actually agree with that. Just that his stats can fall/rise on output. Grant's intensity is inconsistent. At times he can actually bring great pressure due to his explosive pace and ability to actually tackle and at times he can be nowhere near it. Repeated effort to consistently present is enormous for him.

[bornadog]

Don't forget his Harlem globe trotting pick ups and dish offs :)

I love him for that alone!

He is a fan of NBA.

[bulldogtragic]

He is a fan of NBA.
And the NBA is a fan of him :)

[Happy Days]

Don't forget his Harlem globe trotting pick ups and dish offs :)

I love him for that alone!

Him and Stringer share this awesome trait in that they are committed to doing at least five sick things a game (shots from the boundary and burning off team mates to kick awesome goals for Jake, no look passes and other like tricks for Jarrad)

[G-Mo77]

The last shot on goal he had just shows how good his hands are. Almost full speed, clean pick up off the ground just failed to finish. Would have been a great goal had he put that one through.

[ratsmac]

I thought he was really good today. He has a great skill set doesn't he! He must nail those shots on goal though. He still has a fair bit of work to do but at least he is staying involved in the game where in times past he would go missing. Promising signs though.

[GVGjr]

How the hell did we play blokes like Campbell, Markovic, Dickson and Cordy ahead of this bloke.

Grant has really livened up the forward line.

You're going over old ground. He didn't display the right ethic to earn his spot. Perhaps if he had done a few practice golf swings at training you would be more willing to back the coach and the MC on the decision.

I'll give the MC a pat on the back given that he has come in and been effective.

[bornadog]

You're going over old ground. He didn't display the right ethic to earn his spot. Perhaps if he had done a few practice golf swings at training you would be more willing to back the coach and the MC on the decision.

I'll give the MC a pat on the back given that he has come in and been effective.

You missed the point once more. Dickson, Cordy, Campbell and Markovic have shown zero at Williamstown yet they get a game. Dickson has been poor for the last three weeks and I bet the coaches pet gets a game next week.

[SonofScray]

I think Dickson has to go. Not talented enough to get by without a decent fitness base, or to play hurt. Injury has been costly to him. Grant had been giving us enough to stay in, so assuming Stringer is rested and has some form we see Grant, Stringer and Jones in the forward line. At Dicko's expense.

[Torpedo]

Its a brutal but simple requirement that JG doesn't meet -A forward just needs to consistently kick gettable goals! Yes he has an exquisite skill set that we all like to see displayed. And yes he may be hard to match up and take some pressure off Jones and co, but no amount of finesse/goal assists can overcome that defining deficiency in a 24yo forward. Admittedly he has a lot of mates with the same fault. Perhaps try him on a wing where he could use his skills to greater advantage?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I thought he was really good today. He has a great skill set doesn't he! He must nail those shots on goal though. He still has a fair bit of work to do but at least he is staying involved in the game where in times past he would go missing. Promising signs though.

I must have been at the wrong game down here in Tassie if you thought Grant was really good. His shooting for goal is pathetic. Grant has been in the system for 5-6 years and still doesn't know how to hold the ball to kick correctly.

[Before I Die]

Its a brutal but simple requirement that JG doesn't meet -A forward just needs to consistently kick gettable goals! Yes he has an exquisite skill set that we all like to see displayed. And yes he may be hard to match up and take some pressure off Jones and co, but no amount of finesse/goal assists can overcome that defining deficiency in a 24yo forward. Admittedly he has a lot of mates with the same fault. Perhaps try him on a wing where he could use his skills to greater advantage?

Three near misses and one shank. Give the guy a break.

[bulldogtragic]

I must have been at the wrong game down here in Tassie if you thought Grant was really good. His shooting for goal is pathetic. Grant has been in the system for 5-6 years and still doesn't know how to hold the ball to kick correctly.
Perhaps you were.

[Before I Die]

I must have been at the wrong game down here in Tassie if you thought Grant was really good. His shooting for goal is pathetic. Grant has been in the system for 5-6 years and still doesn't know how to hold the ball to kick correctly.

Other than Gia, who was a better forward than Grant? On every measure other than accuracy he was very good. On accuracy he was no worse than Jones or Addison.

[Eastdog]

Other than Gia, who was a better forward than Grant? On every measure other than accuracy he was very good. On accuracy he was no worse than Jones or Addison.

Yeah very true BID. Jones and Addison aren't much better. I think at training sessions goal kicking for these guys need to be a priority.

[bulldogtragic]

Its a brutal but simple requirement that JG doesn't meet -A forward just needs to consistently kick gettable goals! Yes he has an exquisite skill set that we all like to see displayed. And yes he may be hard to match up and take some pressure off Jones and co, but no amount of finesse/goal assists can overcome that defining deficiency in a 24yo forward. Admittedly he has a lot of mates with the same fault. Perhaps try him on a wing where he could use his skills to greater advantage?
Grant averages 1.14 goals per game

Liam Jones 1.00
Jack Watts 0.76
Chris Dawes 1.16
Mitch Clarke 1.00
Kosi 1.21
Casboult 0.87
Hurley 1.18
Hampson 0.50
Tarrant 1.15


And he actually played well.....

Really? This is what he gets. "Defining deficiency". He's been playing magoos all year, had people questioning his ability, application, attitude, and so on, earns a call up, plays two good games and this is what he gets??? He misses a few shots.... Look a his average, he's up there with Dawes and Kosi for FFS. He's done more in two games than anything anyone else taking this position has done. Yes, he missed a few shots, but both teams did. Breathtaking ignorance.

[SonofScray]

Grant averages 1.13 goals per game

Liam Jones 1.00
Jack Watts 0.76
Chris Dawes 1.16
Mitch Clarke 1.00
Kosi 1.21
Casboult 0.87
Hampson 0.50
Tarrant 1.15


And he actually played well.....

Really? This is what he gets. "Defining deficiency". He's been playing magoos all year, had people questioning his ability, application, attitude, and so on, earns a call up, plays two good games and this is what he gets??? He misses a few shots.... Look a his average, he's up there with Dawes and Kosi for FFS. He's done more in two games than anything anyone else taking this position has done. Yes, he missed a few shots, but both teams did. Breathtaking ignorance.

Agree. We are extremely harsh on Grant/Jones. Being fed years and years of "you guys just need a big key fwd and *poof* PREMIERSHIP!" has really warped our patience and perception.

[bulldogtragic]

Agree. We are extremely harsh on Grant/Jones. Being fed years and years of "you guys just need a big key fwd and *poof* PREMIERSHIP!" has really warped our patience and perception.
Agree SOS. I Just checked his accuracy record. It's better than Buddy and Richo and Sooky Riewoldt. 58 goals 36 behinds. That's 61%.

If he was any better for accuracy he'd be rated alongside Dunstall and Lockett!!!

So yes, he averages almost the same goal average as Dawes, Hurley & Kosi and is only 5% less accurate than Dunstall. He's shit, he can't kick, misses too many and is sooo inaccurate and holds the ball wrong, blah, blah uniformed blah.

[The Underdog]

Just checked his accuracy record. It's better than Buddy and Richo and Sooky Riewoldt. 58 goals 36 behinds. That's 61%.

If he was any better for accuracy he'd be rated alongside Dunstall and Lockett!!!

I'll preface this by saying I like Grant, his pace, vision and skill set is what we need if he can do it consistently. However

A) did you pick a group of 2nd rate forwards at random to compare his goals per game to or is there some reasoning behind that group aside from making him look good? Up there with Dawes & Kosi as a forward isn't proving much. And Hampson on the list, really?

B) if you want to make point about his set shots can we find his set shot conversion percentage. It's an area of his game that hasn't improved in his time in the league and may be getting worse. Buddy and Richo have been pilloried in their careers for their set shot goal kicking so it's not that outlandish that he has a better goal kicking % than them, however they also have a *!*!*!*! load more shots at goal per game than Grant. Grant has kicked in a career what Dunstall & Lockett kicked in half a season.

[bulldogtragic]

I'll preface this by saying I like Grant, his pace, vision and skill set is what we need if he can do it consistently. However

A) did you pick a group of 2nd rate forwards at random to compare his goals per game to or is there some reasoning behind that group aside from making him look good? Up there with Dawes & Kosi as a forward isn't proving much. And Hampson on the list, really?

B) if you want to make point about his set shots can we find his set shot conversion percentage. It's an area of his game that hasn't improved in his time in the league and may be getting worse. Buddy and Richo have been pilloried in their careers for their set shot goal kicking so it's not that outlandish that he has a better goal kicking % than them, however they also have a *!*!*!*! load more shots at goal per game than Grant. Grant has kicked in a career what Dunstall & Lockett kicked in half a season.
A) Grant is not an elite FF, not yet anyway :) . I selected mid range players from half a dozen clubs as a fair comparison. I can compare him to Buddy and Kennedy but all that will tell us is that they kick more goals. All I have done is extract similar averages. So statically at least, he is on par with Kosi, Hurley and Dawes. Thats the only point im making, trying to compare apples and apples. Maybe we should think of him like this rather than other expectations he can never reach. (Hampson was on the list as a joke, but it shows that Grant is miles and miles ahead of that Gumby).

B) I'm not sure why it matters what his set shot stats are. He goes at 61% for his career. It might be less for set shots, but then he is making it up with his forward craft on the move. Grant will not get 7+ contested marks a game and get the shots of Rooey or Richo, but all he can do is be as accurate as possible, and facts are he is more accurate than them.

So, he's not Carey or Lloyd. He's more like Dawes, Hurley and Kosi for scoreboard impact. But the shots he is getting a game is just short of Dunstall's accuracy.

I think that's great, really bloody good. But to have comments like "defining deficiency" about his kicking and scoring impact shits me to tears. He's not a world beater, but he's a solid citizen who played well two weeks running. We were after Dawes, would take Hurley and would have taken Kosi a few years back. Yet Grant who is their equal for scoring impact is our whipping boy.

[The Underdog]

A) Grant is not an elite FF, not yet anyway :) . I selected mid range players from half a dozen clubs as a fair comparison. I can compare him to Buddy and Kennedy but all that will tell us is that they kick more goals. All I have done is extract similar averages. So statically at least, he is on par with Kosi, Hurley and Dawes. Thats the only point im making, trying to compare apples and apples. Maybe we should think of him like this rather than other expectations he can never reach. (Hampson was on the list as a joke, but it shows that Grant is miles and miles ahead of that Gumby).

B) I'm not sure why it matters what his set shot stats are. He goes at 61% for his career. It might be less for set shots, but then he is making it up with his forward craft on the move. Grant will not get 7+ contested marks a game and get the shots of Rooey or Richo, but all he can do is be as accurate as possible, and facts are he is more accurate than them.

So, he's not Carey or Lloyd. He's more like Dawes, Hurley and Kosi for scoreboard impact. But the shots he is getting a game is just short of Dunstall's accuracy.

I think that's great, really bloody good. But to have comments like "defining deficiency" about his kicking and scoring impact shits me to tears. He's not a world beater, but he's a solid citizen who played well two weeks running.

His set shot % matters in this context because he is a really good snap shot and uses the ball well in general play. Even more important would be his conversion rate from 30m +. His set shot kicking is rubbish and is currently a deficiency. But I guess what we've established is that in a career that spans what may still constitute a small sample size that Grant is comfortably in the echelon of other 2nd rate forwards. (Or ruck/forwards)

[bornadog]

Yet Grant who is their equal for scoring impact is our whipping boy.

You won't change the minds of some of our supporters BT. They get it into their head about one or two errors a player makes and it just sticks and their whole game is tarnished and suporters brand them no good. For years we heard how Hargrave was no good, then it was Gia the whipping boy and similarly its been Grant. Grant kicks goals and they are called cheapies out the back, or luck.

He will need to kick 5 goals a game for the rest of the season, and then maybe supporters may get off his back, but I doubt it.

[Greystache]

You won't change the minds of some of our supporters BT. They get it into their head about one or two errors a player makes and it just sticks and their whole game is tarnished and suporters brand them no good. For years we heard how Hargrave was no good, then it was Gia the whipping boy and similarly its been Grant. Grant kicks goals and they are called cheapies out the back, or luck.

He will need to kick 5 goals a game for the rest of the season, and then maybe supporters may get off his back, but I doubt it.

Similar to the way some posters call for the head of Addison and Dickson every game regardless of how others perform. Extremely tedious but they'll never see things any other way.

[bulldogtragic]

His set shot % matters in this context because he is a really good snap shot and uses the ball well in general play. Even more important would be his conversion rate from 30m +. His set shot kicking is rubbish and is currently a deficiency. But I guess what we've established is that in a career that spans what may still constitute a small sample size that Grant is comfortably in the echelon of other 2nd rate forwards. (Or ruck/forwards)
Yep. Hurley, Dawes and Kosi have all had a power forward to be a foil off too (yes Grant had Hall for a while too). They are all "2nd" in the pecking order, but you need players between Dunstall and Jack Watts goal averages. They are seen as solid citizens. Grant deserves to be rated among these guys, all first round draft picks who had too high expectations based on draft selection, but who have put in a solid effort nonetheless.

Grant will be playing AFL next year, I hope for us it's with us. If he goes to a team with other key targets, he will dominate, of that I have no doubt.

[LostDoggy]

Thought that he's been more than useful the last two games. His style of kicking is still a liability to himself and the team. He's never going to obtain any beneficial angle on his kick due to his ball drop.

This'll limit his usefulness if he moves further up the ground.

JG is what he is, so keep trying boyo.

[bulldogtragic]

Similar to the way some posters call for the head of Addison and Dickson every game regardless of how others perform. Extremely tedious but they'll never see things any other way.
Two 'wrongs' don't make a right. But based on career to date, Grant has streets more to offer this side. Addison and Dickson have been poor and while they remain best 22 we'll be bottom ladder. Grant on he other hand is the opposite. But this thread is about JG not we woofers inclinations.

[Greystache]

Two 'wrongs' don't make a right. But based on career to date, Grant has streets more to offer this side. Addison and Dickson have been poor and while they remain best 22 we'll be bottom ladder. Grant on he other hand is the opposite. But this thread is about JG not we woofers inclinations.

In the past 2 weeks Grant had been lauded for his performance while the same posters have called for Dickson to be delisted in almost every thread.

Yet in the past 2 weeks

Grant- 2 goals, 35 possessions, 13 marks, 6 tackles

Dickson- 2 goals, 29 possessions, 8 marks, 5 tackles

People just have their scapegoats and only see the one or two bad things they do each game.

Grant is 24 and has been in the AFL system for 6 years and Dickson is 25 and has been in it for 2

[LostDoggy]

He's been good for 2 weeks. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. I live in hope that something has clicked. But he's only shown 2 weeks.

Good luck to him. We can certainly use him in the best 22 if he can continue to display this. I don't think it's reasonable to say he has been everyone's whipping boy undeservedly... He was not playing well. Now he's showing something. That's all we should read into this at the moment for mine. Nice to have another good feel story at the moment though :)

[bulldogtragic]

In the past 2 weeks Grant had been lauded for his performance while the same posters have called for Dickson to be delisted in almost every thread.

Yet in the past 2 weeks

Grant- 2 goals, 35 possessions, 13 marks, 6 tackles

Dickson- 2 goals, 29 possessions, 8 marks, 5 tackles

People just have their scapegoats and only see the one or two bad things they do each game.

Grant is 24 and has been in the AFL system for 6 years and Dickson is 25 and has been in it for 2
I take your point about going too harsh on Tory, but that doesn't detract from Grant. The full stats are:

Grant: 6 more disposals (20% more), 6 more marks - nearly double (inc. more marks inside 50), double the scoring shots (6/3), triple the goal assists (3/1), double the inside 50's (6/3), more tackles, increased disposal efficiency (I think) and a massive dreamteam score differential of 86 to Tory's 66.

This is a considerable difference. It might seem small in raw numbers, but the supercoach numbers show how much better Grant has been over the last two weeks. But yes, on numbers, Tory hasn't been as bad as I even I had thought.

[GVGjr]

A couple of other points.
Dickson was our leading goal kicker last season and missed a significant amount of the season so far with injury. He's been rushed back into the line-up due to the injuries of the likes of Williams, the experiment of Cordy not working, Stringer needing some spells and Grants own form being inconsistent.

In an ideal scenario, Dickson would have played more games at Williamstown before getting a recall.

[AndrewP6]

A couple of other points.
Dickson was our leading goal kicker last season and missed a significant amount of the season so far with injury. He's been rushed back into the line-up due to the injuries of the likes of Williams, the experiment of Cordy not working, Stringer needing some spells and Grants own form being inconsistent.

In an ideal scenario, Dickson would have played more games at Williamstown before getting a recall.

Gia led our goal kickers last year.

[GVGjr]

Gia led our goal kickers last year.

Thanks.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Perhaps you were.

At the 26 minute mark of the final quarter in perfect conditions our forward line had kicked just 7 goals with key forwards in Grant and Jones finishing with one goal apiece.
This is no where near good enough IMO.

[chef]

I must have been at the wrong game down here in Tassie if you thought Grant was really good. His shooting for goal is pathetic. Grant has been in the system for 5-6 years and still doesn't know how to hold the ball to kick correctly.

He was really good:confused:.

He holds and kicks the ball the same as Gunston, Ablett, Nathan Brown etc

[LostDoggy]

In the past 2 weeks Grant had been lauded for his performance while the same posters have called for Dickson to be delisted in almost every thread.

Yet in the past 2 weeks

Grant- 2 goals, 35 possessions, 13 marks, 6 tackles

Dickson- 2 goals, 29 possessions, 8 marks, 5 tackles

People just have their scapegoats and only see the one or two bad things they do each game.

Grant is 24 and has been in the AFL system for 6 years and Dickson is 25 and has been in it for 2

You can add:
Grant- 2 goals, 35 possessions, 13 marks, 6 tackles

Dickson- 2 goals, 29 possessions, 8 marks, 5 tackles

Jones- 3 goals, 16 possessions, 11 marks, 3 tackles.

Going back the last 4 games:
Dickson- 4 goals, 53 possessions, 14 marks, 13 tackles
Jones- 5 goals, 29 possessions, 18 marks, 4 tackles.

So his stats aren't too bad.
Dickson and Grant seem to do more than the other forwards on our list when they don't have the ball eg tackles / pressure.
With the exception of getting games into Stringer, which can be done with the omitting of Addison, there isn't a big upside to dropping either of them.
Both will get better IMO, both only have a few games this year don't forget.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Grant is here to stay says my intuition and reason. He is a unique talent and is 24 now and if persisted with will only get better. We don't need to see him do much more than he has since his recall but just stay in the game for the four quarters. McCartney, being a good teacher, will reward him with a spot if he replicates his efforts of the last two games. We haven't seen the best of him yet either.
Thank Christ he isn't lost to us.

[LostDoggy]

This is a simple and obvious answer. Who would you prefer in our forward line ..... Ayce Cordy or Jarrad Grant?

I think the past two games (compared to the palm tree experiment) provide a very obvious answer.

[bornadog]

This is a simple and obvious answer. Who would you prefer in our forward line ..... Ayce Cordy or Jarrad Grant?

I think the past two games (compared to the palm tree experiment) provide a very obvious answer.

I still think we need one more tall player in the forward line with Grant playing the crumbing type of role.

[LostDoggy]

Grant has been looking good, I think he is lacking confidence and just needs to play a man of the match sort of game. Which hopefully propels him to the next level. (Hopefully)

[F'scary]

Grant is a crap set shot at goal.

He desperately needs to do something to amend this or he'll never be a good forward.

Problem is, he has been a crap set shot at goal from day 1 - never improved.

[Happy Days]

Grant is not a bad set shot at goal, just because his action looks stupid doesn't mean it is. Him and Gunston have the same action and Gunston has been extraordinarily accurate this year, and as posters above mentioned, 61% accuracy is more than coppable.

Grant has been in our top dozen the last two weeks. The tone of this thread is stupid. How can you seriously look at a side with lumps like DYLAN F'N ADDISON and Tory Dickson in it and want to pot the guy with talent actually doing stuff because he kicks points instead of nothing like alternatives (Cordy, Markovic) would?

Jeremy Cameron kicked 4.5 yesterday and I know we'd all have him.

[bulldogtragic]

Grant is not a bad set shot at goal, just because his action looks stupid doesn't mean it is. Him and Gunston have the same action and Gunston has been extraordinarily accurate this year, and as posters above mentioned, 61% accuracy is more than coppable.

Grant has been in our top dozen the last two weeks. The tone of this thread is stupid. How can you seriously look at a side with lumps like DYLAN F'N ADDISON and Tory Dickson in it and want to pot the guy with talent actually doing stuff because he kicks points instead of nothing like alternatives (Cordy, Markovic) would?

Jeremy Cameron kicked 4.5 yesterday and I know we'd all have him.
I don't get it either. He gets potted for not getting into the seniors, earns a call up, plays well, still potted. Bullshit...

[Doc26]

In the past 2 weeks Grant had been lauded for his performance while the same posters have called for Dickson to be delisted in almost every thread.

Yet in the past 2 weeks

Dickson- 2 goals, 29 possessions, 8 marks, 5 tackles

People just have their scapegoats and only see the one or two bad things they do each game.

.......... and Dickson is 25 and has been in it for 2

Whilst I'm not one calling for Dickson to be delisted, surprised some would be shortsighted to make such a call, quoting such possession stats can also be misleading in assessing critical output. For example when the pace was in yesterday's game Tory did have have minimal effect. It wasn't until the 17.5 minute mark of the 2nd quarter before he had his first disposal by foot. He was way underdone when the MC recalled him and understandably his output currently when the pace is on is negligible. He is a talented small forward who, not unlike Higgins, needs his body in tip top shape to perform as he must.

[mighty_west]

This is a simple and obvious answer. Who would you prefer in our forward line ..... Ayce Cordy or Jarrad Grant?

I think the past two games (compared to the palm tree experiment) provide a very obvious answer.

Grant definatly up forward but with Cordy rucking who can provide the talls up forward a chop out resting when required.

[bulldogtragic]

Grant definatly up forward but with Cordy rucking who can provide the talls up forward a chop out resting when required.
Grant averages 1.14 goals per game, at 61% accuracy, with 12.49 disposals and 4.63 marks.

Cordy averages 0.68 goals per game, at 61% accuracy, with 8 disposals and 2.79 marks. Hit outs are 2.63 per game.

Cordy needs more time, but it's unfair to compare the two. Grant is miles ahead, so losing 2 hit outs a game is negligible.

[bulldogtragic]

Small forwards over the recent past:

Judas - 1.50 goals per game
Akermanis - 1.48 goals per game
Hill - 1.30 goals per game
Gia - 1.25 goals per game

J. GRANT - 1.14 goals per game

Kolynuik - 1.11 goals per game
Bowden - 1.10 goals per game
Higgins - 1.09 goals per game
Robbins - 0.97 goals per game
Hahn - 0.90 goals per game
Montgomery - 0.87 goals per game
Garlick - 0.83 goals per game

[bulldogtragic]

Accuracy snap shot of AFL/VFL:

Lockett - 69%
Dunstall - 66%
Gia - 65%

J. GRANT - 61%

Chris Grant - 61%
Brad Johnson - 60%
N. Riewoldt - 60%
Tippett - 59%
Richardson - 59%
Franklin - 58%
Akermanis - 58% (WBFC)

[The Underdog]

Grant is not a bad set shot at goal, just because his action looks stupid doesn't mean it is. Him and Gunston have the same action and Gunston has been extraordinarily accurate this year, and as posters above mentioned, 61% accuracy is more than coppable.

Grant has been in our top dozen the last two weeks. The tone of this thread is stupid. How can you seriously look at a side with lumps like DYLAN F'N ADDISON and Tory Dickson in it and want to pot the guy with talent actually doing stuff because he kicks points instead of nothing like alternatives (Cordy, Markovic) would?

Jeremy Cameron kicked 4.5 yesterday and I know we'd all have him.

But that's my point. I like Grant a lot but 61% is not his set shot percentage. Gunston and Kennedy have ugly actions but are completely authoritative and effective off the boot. Grant has a bad drop, kicks tentatively and many of them float. It isn't something that he's improved, and this comes from seeing him in VFL games also. I'd guess his % of set shots outside 35 metres would be closer to 30-40%. I'm not potting him, i've been happy with his first 2 games and believed in his ability the whole way along, but to use that stat to compare him to top level key forwards is specious at best. The obvious drawback of the Cameron comp is that Cameron kicked 4 from 9 shots. Grant kicked 1 from 5 (or was it 6 with an out on the full?). That's why we'd all have Cameron, because he is younger, bigger & a rare talent.

[bulldogtragic]

But that's my point. I like Grant a lot but 61% is not his set shot percentage. Gunston and Kennedy have ugly actions but are completely authoritative and effective off the boot. Grant has a bad drop, kicks tentatively and many of them float. It isn't something that he's improved, and this comes from seeing him in VFL games also. I'd guess his % of set shots outside 35 metres would be closer to 30-40%. I'm not potting him, i've been happy with his first 2 games and believed in his ability the whole way along, but to use that stat to compare him to top level key forwards is specious at best. The obvious drawback of the Cameron comp is that Cameron kicked 4 from 9 shots. Grant kicked 1 from 5 (or was it 6 with an out on the full?). That's why we'd all have Cameron, because he is younger, bigger & a rare talent.
Can't accept that at all. At all... Fact is his career accuracy rate is 61%.

What he losses on set shots he makes up for in general play. If he wasn't kicking goals in general play, he be potted for being one dimensional, and oppositions would run off him making him a massive liability. Like a certain player he replaced.

He may miss some shots, but like it or not, out of every 100 shots he kicks 61 goals. Gia is 65, Chris Grant was 61 too and Lockett was 69.

[SonofScray]

He plays, he scores. We've had a real lack of goal nous in the squad for a while now, Grant brings it in spades.

[FrediKanoute]

Glad he is in the side and glad he is showing something. He has improved the side since coming in.

[LostDoggy]

The coach has said that Grant needed to develop other parts of his game. He had to learn that HIS role is not to win the match himself but construct his game round creating goals for the team. It does not matter that he doesn't kick them as long as he helps create the potential for the team to have best chance to kick them and for the team to have best chance of locking the ball in the forward line. The reason he has not played before is simply that he had not learnt this to the satisfaction of the MC. Last year he he didn't have the stamina or fitness required, meaning that he blew up in games and so created a free defender for the opposition. Too often he became completely lost or ineffective. He was then sent away to get stronger and fitter. As he has done this, and as he has learnt the TEAM role for a forward, so he has deserved another chance at senior level. But not before he could show he could do the team things on a more consistent basis.

Geelong and the Swans approach development of their players in similar fashion.

[Happy Days]

But that's my point. I like Grant a lot but 61% is not his set shot percentage. Gunston and Kennedy have ugly actions but are completely authoritative and effective off the boot. Grant has a bad drop, kicks tentatively and many of them float. It isn't something that he's improved, and this comes from seeing him in VFL games also. I'd guess his % of set shots outside 35 metres would be closer to 30-40%. I'm not potting him, i've been happy with his first 2 games and believed in his ability the whole way along, but to use that stat to compare him to top level key forwards is specious at best. The obvious drawback of the Cameron comp is that Cameron kicked 4 from 9 shots. Grant kicked 1 from 5 (or was it 6 with an out on the full?). That's why we'd all have Cameron, because he is younger, bigger & a rare talent.

It wasn't meant to be a comparison, more a statement.

Besides, the innacuracy in yesterday's game wasn't the point of the post, more just that singling out the only sub par actions from his game and ignoring everything good about it is pure scapegoating.

[LostDoggy]

Grant's accuracy would definitely be very poor at 40+ metres, loses his accuracy a lot of the time when he needs to kick 40+ metres. By extension he is actually very accurate within 40 metres.

[bornadog]

It wasn't meant to be a comparison, more a statement.

Besides, the innacuracy in yesterday's game wasn't the point of the post, more just that singling out the only sub par actions from his game and ignoring everything good about it is pure scapegoating.

Wasn't it great that someone actually had 5 shots at goal, something we haven't seen from one player for at least two years.