Dissension in the Kennel?

[The Doctor]

It was reported on 3AW tonight by Scoop Maclure that there are rumblings of discontent among certain senior players with Macca.

it was reported that Will Minson walked out on his end of season review, he added that although this was denied by his manager, his sources within the bulldogs claim it to be true. When pressed further Maclure said other senior players are not happy with Macca either but did not say who or why.

THere have been other murmurings of discontent online and on talkback. Wonder if it's a case of where there's smoke.....

[Webby]

Just like a bloke aligned with a big club to start putting it out there during trade time that we have an unhappy camp....

If anything, this just confirms that Higgins is talking to Carlton.

McClure can get stuffed.

[ledge]

This is the first I have heard of any discontent except for impatient supporters.. Not so sure Maclure has any idea.

[azabob]

Who is scoop Maclure?

[Webby]

Who is scoop Maclure?

Just a fat, melted chesty Bonds mannequin. Nothing to see here... Prick.

[GVGjr]

I think there was some belief that when Macca was first appointed he was too soft on the players. Given the season we had I'm hoping he is taking a harder line with the players. Obviously this needs to be done professionally but it can be confronting for anyone to have a boss demanding that you do more. I'm sure some players wont want to hear an improvement required assessment of their season.

[The Doctor]

Who is scoop Maclure?

Sam Maclure, is a reporter on 3aw who has a regular spot on the Sports Tonight program with Gerard Healy and Dwayne Russell. His segment is breaking footy news, gossip & rumours.

His Dad was respected journalist Geoff "Chook" Maclure who ran a column in the Age called 'Sporting Life' for many years and previously an editor with Sports Monthly magazine back in the 90's. I used to know Geoff & worked with him for a little while, but not Sam.

[azabob]

Sam Maclure, is a reporter on 3aw who has a regular spot on the Sports Tonight program with Gerard Healy and Dwayne Russell. His segment is breaking footy news, gossip & rumours.

His Dad was respected journalist Geoff "Chook" Maclure who ran a column in the Age called 'Sporting Life' for many years and previously an editor with Sports Monthly magazine back in the 90's. I used to know Geoff & worked with him for a little while, but not Sam.

Thanks Doc.

What do you make of it all? Obviously something is going on, otherwise the SEN crew wouldn't have aske Garlcik a similar question in yesterday's interview.

[The Doctor]

Thanks Doc.

What do you make of it all? Obviously something is going on, otherwise the SEN crew wouldn't have aske Garlcik a similar question in yesterday's interview.

I don't make anything of it yet, but you have to wonder. I doubt they would just make it up. I think a lot of folk at the Bulldogs will be unhappy with the way the season ended and maybe venting some steam as they look for answers. it is kind of the opposite to last year when we finished well and were upbeat

As for the Garlick interview I didn't hear that. But lets face it, you are not going to get much journalistic intellect from The Ox and his sidekick golf guru Mark Allen. if there was anything Garlick would easily sidestep these buffoons.

I would love to hear Patrick smith interview Garlick however

[Webby]

Oops! McClure of Carlton-ABC Radio fame is not "Scoop" McClure.... Apologies to Chesty Bond MacClure..!

[bornadog]

Thanks Doc.

What do you make of it all? Obviously something is going on, otherwise the SEN crew wouldn't have aske Garlcik a similar question in yesterday's interview.

The SEN crew read out a few texts which had questions to Garlick.

I am not liking this as I do think where there is smoke.

[Dry Rot]

I wonder if the op has anything to do with Wood not re-signing yet? And if he's going?

FWIW, there are persistent rumours on BF that Talia wants out.

[azabob]

The SEN crew read out a few texts which had questions to Garlick.

I am not liking this as I do think where there is smoke.

Yep, that is my thoughts also.

I have seen other snippets which make me also think trouble may be afoot.

[Bulldog4life]

I wonder if the op has anything to do with Wood not re-signing yet? And if he's going?

FWIW, there are persistent rumours on BF that Talia wants out.

Please Dry Rot you are better than that,

[bornadog]

Please Dry Rot you are better than that,

I have heard the same thing (not BF)

[Webby]

I have heard the same thing (not BF)

Me too. And he was in my thoughts re management style discussion in the SEN Garlick thread. Boo frickity hoo. He's a modern day Ben Sexton. When I played footy, a wise man said to me there's no bigger sook than a twos footballer.. Never a truer word spoken.

This is a bloke who is ambling along at the crossroads. Either grow a pair, improve your kicking, positional play and closing speed, or the only trade you'll be looking at is Glenelg, young man.

Extract the digit!

[Dry Rot]

Please Dry Rot you are better than that,

What about these guys then?


I have heard the same thing (not BF)


Me too. And he was in my thoughts re management style discussion in the SEN Garlick thread. Boo frickity hoo. He's a modern day Ben Sexton. When I played footy, a wise man said to me there's no bigger sook than a twos footballer.. Never a truer word spoken.

This is a bloke who is ambling along at the crossroads. Either grow a pair, improve your kicking, positional play and closing speed, or the only trade you'll be looking at is Glenelg, young man.

Extract the digit!

[Webby]

What about these guys then?

I understand the whole WOOF vs (what's it called - the forum?) thing, but occasionally a rumour is a rumour. A solid rumour. ie. "I heard T Lockett kicked 1,000+ goals" and this Talia rumour holds true. Hopefully just a brain fart from the kid, but if he holds to it, he's a dill. He'd need to improve 150% to be at a point where he could feel legitimately disgruntled. I fear he has Jack Watts' work ethic with Zeno Tatzaris's ability.

I'd implore the kid to pull his head in and knuckle down for one big summer.... Because he's not the brightest kid in the Talia household, nor is he the most talented footballer. That might sound harsh, but it's fact.

Suck it up and put in for a summer. Stop the whining!

[G-Mo77]

The SEN crew read out a few texts which had questions to Garlick.

I am not liking this as I do think where there is smoke.

Yep, think the same. We'll probably never know what's going on so we can draw our own conclusions.

Higgins wanting out was a surprise because Macca was friends with his old man or something along those lines. I pictured Higgins being here the whole time while Macca was coach. There were rumors about Boyd being upset with the coach and now Minson. Jones wanting to leave and Talia rumors as well (yes I've heard those as well) Like I said draw your own conclusion but to me it doesn't seem like it's harmony behind the scenes.

[jeemak]

If we turn into a club where the tail starts wagging the dog I will be very disappointed. Nothing good comes from it, especially when there's a clear coaching philosophy only slightly interrupted by a small hurdle.

[FrediKanoute]

I think its just end of season rumblings. For all bar 6 clubs the seasons over so all that's left is picking through the scabs of a season looking for a reason that guys didn't perform to the level we wanted and then drawing a very long bow that they want out and an even longer bow that it must be because of a breakdown with the coach.

Yes there is probably some angst amongst the players - it was on the whole a nothing season - didn't really move tangibly forward in terms of games won and it finished disappointingly with loss to an understrength GWS. Coupled with guys out of contract not getting regular games it makes for rumours.

[Greystache]

Yep, think the same. We'll probably never know what's going on so we can draw our own conclusions.

Higgins wanting out was a surprise because Macca was friends with his old man or something along those lines. I pictured Higgins being here the whole time while Macca was coach. There were rumors about Boyd being upset with the coach and now Minson. Jones wanting to leave and Talia rumors as well (yes I've heard those as well) Like I said draw your own conclusion but to me it doesn't seem like it's harmony behind the scenes.

Whenever a team is losing there's always rumblings, and no doubt there's some basis. The names however give me some comfort, Boyd is hanging on for all he's worth, Minson had a terrible season and is getting bullied at training by the kid likely to take over from him next season, Talia is a million miles off AFL level at this stage, Jones wants free games without effort, and Higgins is looking for a club with some snow for him to ski down. Not all will go obviously, but we're hardly talking about Griffen, Libba, Macrae, Murphy, or Dahlhaus here.

[Pedro Sanchez]

I think its just end of season rumblings. For all bar 6 clubs the seasons over so all that's left is picking through the scabs of a season looking for a reason that guys didn't perform to the level we wanted and then drawing a very long bow that they want out and an even longer bow that it must be because of a breakdown with the coach.

Yes there is probably some angst amongst the players - it was on the whole a nothing season - didn't really move tangibly forward in terms of games won and it finished disappointingly with loss to an understrength GWS. Coupled with guys out of contract not getting regular games it makes for rumours.


Unfortunately there’s definitely negative stuff going on – and the feeling isn’t isolated to just a few. Don’t know what macca has done to rile them, but the troops aren’t happy.

As for Higgins, he wants to stay, but isn’t getting much of an option to do it. The club is floating him as trade bait so his most viable option is to seek a deal elsewhere. And I for one think that’s a shame.

[FrediKanoute]

Source? Sorry to be sceptical, but I don't but I don't buy smoke/fire argument.

[Remi Moses]

Maybe a few players have their knickers in a knot from hearing a few home truths .
Jones couldn't get a gig in a forward line screaming out for someone to take a big grab and give maximum effort.
Liam will tease with a big grab, and a good game then go AWOL for weeks.

[Remi Moses]

If we turn into a club where the tail starts wagging the dog I will be very disappointed. Nothing good comes from it, especially when there's a clear coaching philosophy only slightly interrupted by a small hurdle.

Couldn't agree more. We cannot be a club where this happens

[Hotdog60]

Maybe to coach has been building the young players confidence and then telling the senior players some home truths.

It would be very hard for a member of the senior group to cop a less than faltering review. I think they would try and defend themselves and may possibly decide to walk out of the review rather than say something to put them offside.

I would be hard sitting in the bosses office being told your performance is not up to scratch.

How times this year did we see some of our very junior players dig deep to try and lift us up out of a hole when the senior players couldn't.

[whythelongface]

Unfortunately there’s definitely negative stuff going on – and the feeling isn’t isolated to just a few. Don’t know what macca has done to rile them, but the troops aren’t happy.

As for Higgins, he wants to stay, but isn’t getting much of an option to do it. The club is floating him as trade bait so his most viable option is to seek a deal elsewhere. And I for one think that’s a shame.

Where is this information coming from? Is this from a source within the club or just hearsay? There may well be some internal rumblings but without evidence per se it is hard to know what to believe.

Like any organisation we are not immune from people not enjoying their work place. If it is only one or two individuals then so be it and sometimes, for both parties sake, it is better that they leave the organisation and ply their trade elsewhere. Of the players discussed thus far who are 'not happy' or 'seeking a trade' or 'looking elsewhere' the main one I would like to keep is Wood.

[LostDoggy]

Could it be that the players are sick of losing and are not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel? Perhaps they are seeing this as something Macca is responsible for in terms of game plan and selections etc and they've got the shits?

[LongWait]

Maybe we should be more worried if the club had a losing record for three consecutive years but all of the older players absolutely love the coach and there is never any friction or confrontation.

It could be that some of the players have been sounded out about whether they'd be open to being traded. Minson could be one given that Campbell will be the number 1 ruckman sometime in the next two seasons.

[G-Mo77]

Could it be that the players are sick of losing and are not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel? Perhaps they are seeing this as something Macca is responsible for in terms of game plan and selections etc and they've got the shits?

Could be, could be nothing in it as well. From my view and which was said before where there is smoke there is fire. There were times our performances reflected dissention especially late in the year. We've got to move swiftly to put out these fires. The trade and FA period should be interesting.

[doggies ftw]

Apparently Macca is brutal behind closed doors. He has some very specific requirements you have to meet and if you don't he will let you know about it.

There's going to be some clashes along the way but the guys who were left with in the end are going to be some very mentally tough players. He knows what you need to make it and even though I think guys like Talia and Jones are extremelly talented if they don't have what it takes in the mental department then so be it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Macca has been patient in his first few years to give the guys time to develop and learn their craft. However his patience has run out as he is well aware we are well behind in terms of development and players are just not understanding their roles. So the time has come to learn some hard truths about where they are at. I have no problem with this. There are no easy wins or outs for what he is trying to achieve at the club. Its a long road and there are no shortcuts

[Webby]

Minson's been sounded out over a trade. That's his reason for the sh1ts.
Boyd was offered less than he wanted for a final year because, let's face it, the club could've taken him or left him for 2015. That's why he has the sh1ts.
Higgins is chasing coin and is perhaps offended that the club won't match what he can get elsewhere - preferring the compo pick. That = sh1ts for him.
Talia has the sh1ts because he overrates himself. He's immature and needs to simply work harder. Home truths = sh1ts.
Jones has the sh1ts because he's too thick to counter smart, seasoned defenders and thinks AFL footy is simply about taking the odd hanger and failing to bring the ball to ground 95% of the time.

Many older players are realising that the premiership window won't be aligning with their careers = general sh1ts.

From McCartney's viewpoint, if some older players are willing to be traded, it's not a bad thing. Therefore there has to be some tension. The current tension is a temporary,necessary evil. I'd love to see us use the current environment to strike whilst the iron is hot and make some trades.

[LostDoggy]

The question has to be asked, if the rumblings are true regarding home truths. Which AFL clubs do the boys think they'll be able to wander into and not receive negative feedback? Which cultures of successful teams are laissez faire?

[whythelongface]

Minson's been sounded out over a trade. That's his reason for the sh1ts.
Boyd was offered less than he wanted for a final year because, let's face it, the club could've taken him or left him for 2015. That's why he has the sh1ts.
Higgins is chasing coin and is perhaps offended that the club won't match what he can get elsewhere - preferring the compo pick. That = sh1ts for him.
Talia has the sh1ts because he overrates himself. He's immature and needs to simply work harder. Home truths = sh1ts.
Jones has the sh1ts because he's too thick to counter smart, seasoned defenders and thinks AFL footy is simply about taking the odd hanger and failing to bring the ball to ground 95% of the time.

Many older players are realising that the premiership window won't be aligning with their careers = general sh1ts.

From McCartney's viewpoint, if some older players are willing to be traded, it's not a bad thing. Therefore there has to be some tension. The current tension is a temporary,necessary evil. I'd love to see us use the current environment to strike whilst the iron is hot and make some trades.

Who says these players have the woopsies?? again it is mainly just hearsay and unless someone has connections within the club that confirm this, then this is merely hearsay. Media reports are often beat ups as they like to beat there own chest about some exclusive story. Until someone walks out of the club then really all these murmurs are merely rumours.

[The Underdog]

Lets get rid of 20 players :D

Well Webby named 5, one of whom is signed on already for his final year. If the older players who've signed on didn't realise that they wouldn't be around when the list was competitive again then they were delusional to start with and should've tried to go earlier. I'm not sure that the loss of any of the players named would set us back at all. Certainly not as much as the one way football the list played in the final four weeks, if that continues. If B-Mac has worn out his welcome, we'll find out pretty quickly come 2015, but at the moment the players need to do things his way. For years the cry has been that the team has been mentally unable to cope in high leverage situations. He's trying to toughen them up I guess. It might be the wrong way but players need to be able to cope with feedback of all kinds. As long as they know what they're meant to be achieving to get into the seniors or get back there I don't have a problem. I don't think too many supporters would have an issue if B-Mac's patience is wearing thin with some guys. They can probably relate.

[Webby]

Who says these players have the woopsies?? again it is mainly just hearsay and unless someone has connections within the club that confirm this, then this is merely hearsay. Media reports are often beat ups as they like to beat there own chest about some exclusive story. Until someone walks out of the club then really all these murmurs are merely rumours.

Rumours and in innuendo on a football forum?.... Say it ain't so!
Players crack the sh1ts and threaten to leave all the time. Often it settles down and they stay. It doesn't mean it never happened. The point of the forum is surely to get some insight, rumours, discussion etc. as with everything, take it all with a grain of salt.

[whythelongface]

Rumours and in innuendo on a football forum?.... Say it ain't so!
Players crack the sh1ts and threaten to leave all the time. Often it settles down and they stay. It doesn't mean it never happened. The point of the forum is surely to get some insight, rumours, discussion etc. as with everything, take it all with a grain of salt.

I have taken all these rumours about dissention with a grain of salt. Like I said earlier there are always issues within organisations and not everyone will be happy. If someone walks out on the club really it probably is no big deal. It is only when a group of players walk out should we then start to think that there is dissention within the ranks. Again it is all hearsay and certainly no cause for alarm.

[Webby]

Well Webby named 5, one of whom is signed on already for his final year.

Yeah, and do you think Boyd had the sh1ts at one point during contract discussions because the club offered him more than he wanted, or perhaps less??

I guess that, because he never actually left the club, the whole episode never happened and reports of him walking out of the club were 100% baseless!!??

Sheer hearsay which should never be discussed, I guess!!

[Webby]

The question has to be asked, if the rumblings are true regarding home truths. Which AFL clubs do the boys think they'll be able to wander into and not receive negative feedback? Which cultures of successful teams are laissez faire?

I think they'll find out pretty swiftly and things will settle down!
The current tension is healthy, IMO.

[bornadog]

Who says these players have the woopsies?? again it is mainly just hearsay and unless someone has connections within the club that confirm this, then this is merely hearsay. Media reports are often beat ups as they like to beat there own chest about some exclusive story. Until someone walks out of the club then really all these murmurs are merely rumours.

There was a rumour of a senior player walking out of a club, last week. Someone started a rumour it was Boyd, because he hadn't signed. The player turned out to be Lumumba.

[Maddog37]

I pose a question. Of all the exit interviews how many players would have got a pat on the back for a job well done? How many had a good consistent year? IMHO there would only be a handful that really impressed and the rest should have been told a few hard truths. No wonder there is some dissent.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

IMHO its the senior players who have really let us down. When you have Libba and Macrae as the best players it shows where the seniors are at (Im not counting Griff as a senior). As an example have a look at the Saints. Their senior players are still carrying their team and doing a much better job of it than ours have/did. No wonder they beat us in 2 straight prelims.

[LostDoggy]

Could it be that the players are sick of losing and are not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel? Perhaps they are seeing this as something Macca is responsible for in terms of game plan and selections etc and they've got the shits?

I know i've got the shits with the game plan - or lack thereof!. Would have been a tough season as a bulldogs player.

That said, I would like to think that Macca is also getting reviewed by the board, getting a rocket and being told his performance isn't up to what's required.

Everyone at the kennel should be pissed off and hurting at the moment.

[DISHLICKERS]

i know i've got the shits with the game plan - or lack thereof!. Would have been a tough season as a bulldogs player.

That said, i would like to think that macca is also getting reviewed by the board, getting a rocket and being told his performance isn't up to what's required.

Everyone at the kennel should be pissed off and hurting at the moment.


this!

[G-Mo77]

I know i've got the shits with the game plan - or lack thereof!. Would have been a tough season as a bulldogs player.

That said, I would like to think that Macca is also getting reviewed by the board, getting a rocket and being told his performance isn't up to what's required.

Everyone at the kennel should be pissed off and hurting at the moment.

I don't think anyone can argue with that. If there aren't people disappointed with the 2014 season I'd be more concerned.

[The Pie Man]

I know i've got the shits with the game plan - or lack thereof!. Would have been a tough season as a bulldogs player.

That said, I would like to think that Macca is also getting reviewed by the board, getting a rocket and being told his performance isn't up to what's required.

Everyone at the kennel should be pissed off and hurting at the moment.

You'd say that's the case - Gordon's article reviewing 2014 hinted at this.

You often find in a workplace that pressure from the top will see that pressure being passed down. It's natural.

We should be doing better, so while I'd be disappointed if someone like Liam leaves, the more I think about it, the more I think so be it.

[Webby]

IMHO its the senior players who have really let us down. When you have Libba and Macrae as the best players it shows where the seniors are at (Im not counting Griff as a senior). As an example have a look at the Saints. Their senior players are still carrying their team and doing a much better job of it than ours have/did. No wonder they beat us in 2 straight prelims.

And this is the progression of 2014. Two years ago, trading 2-3 older players would've been suicidal, however we've now progressed to a point whereby we might be in a position to look at it. This progress, of course, does not show up in ladder position, but it is nevertheless there. Our average list age is still falling.

Port Adelaide went 13th, 10th, 10th, 16th & 14th between 2008 and 2012. On paper, no progress, but they reduced the age of their list. Older players began moaning, there was dissention in the ranks etc etc. Then, once the core nucleus of players hit 23, wooshka. They finished 8th and went into week 2 of the finals. This year they came 5th and are a decent chance at a prelim.

If you look at us, we've finished 10th, 15th, 15th and 14th. One more year around the 12th or lower mark and we're at exactly the same point in the cycle that Port were at two years ago. Underwhelming on the surface, but beneath the surface it is there. If we manage our list properly starting now, I expect us to be a regular finals side for 5-6 consecutive years commencing in 2016.

[Ghost Dog]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some dissent. Club full of competitive men. Would bloody well hope so. And I hope hard questions are asked and answered.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

And this is the progression of 2014. Two years ago, trading 2-3 older players would've been suicidal, however we've now progressed to a point whereby we might be in a position to look at it. This progress, of course, does not show up in ladder position, but it is nevertheless there. Our average list age is still falling.

Port Adelaide went 13th, 10th, 10th, 16th & 14th between 2008 and 2012. On paper, no progress, but they reduced the age of their list. Older players began moaning, there was dissention in the ranks etc etc. Then, once the core nucleus of players hit 23, wooshka. They finished 8th and went into week 2 of the finals. This year they came 5th and are a decent chance at a prelim.

If you look at us, we've finished 10th, 15th, 15th and 14th. One more year around the 12th or lower mark and we're at exactly the same point in the cycle that Port were at two years ago. Underwhelming on the surface, but beneath the surface it is there. If we manage our list properly starting now, I expect us to be a regular finals side for 5-6 consecutive years commencing in 2016.
I like your optimism. Our ultimate success will largely depend on whether we have the right leadership group in place. David Koch, Ken Hinkley and Trevor Boak have led Port Adelaide magnificently. The arrival of Frank Costa as President of Geelong led to the appointments of Brian Cook, Mark Thompson, Neil Balme and Joel Selwood and from an initial $8 million dollar debt, which was quickly wiped out, to now 3 premierships in the past 7 years together with the upgrading of their Ground facilities which sees the Cats making more in one home game than we make in an entire season at Etihad. Hawthorn can also boast spectacular successes notably it's move to the MCG, its ability to rebase itself to Waverley Park, a membership of 70,000 and a brilliant deal with the Tasmanian Government generating $3 million dollars per year plus 10,000 additional members. They also have arguably the best Coach and Captain combination in Clarkson and Hodge. Our debt of $10 million dollars on the new development at the Whitten Oval, the lowest membership plus the very poor deal at Etihad are all barriers to overcome to enable us to be truly competitive.
The recent recruitments of Bontempelli Macrae Stringer and Hrovat has breathed new hope into our future but there is still a long way to go.

[GVGjr]

Guys, I've cleaned up a few posts. Let's not get petty.

[Remi Moses]

IMHO its the senior players who have really let us down. When you have Libba and Macrae as the best players it shows where the seniors are at (Im not counting Griff as a senior). As an example have a look at the Saints. Their senior players are still carrying their team and doing a much better job of it than ours have/did. No wonder they beat us in 2 straight prelims.

Fair point, but it's actually a positive as well. Rather much have 3 of the first 4 as young players than have Stkildas dad's army B+F finish.

[Twodogs]

Fair point, but it's actually a positive as well. Rather much have 3 of the first 4 as young players than have Stkildas dad's army B+F finish.

I agree. New faces on the B&F podium is a good thing.

[The Doctor]

Did anyone see On the Couch last night?

Apparantly they discussed the issue of the senior players not being happy with Macartney and vice versa.

[LostDoggy]

Yep. Mike mentioned Griff which i hadn't heard before.

[bornadog]

Yep. Mike mentioned Griff which i hadn't heard before.

If true, not good.

[DISHLICKERS]

If I was to have a hunch I would say there are some issues and the rumours have some merit.

I became suss when Wil Minson was dropped for a week. It didn't gel for some reason. You don't gain form with one week in the VFL, you don't try Ayce for a week in seniors.

At the time I recall thinking weird.

[kruder]

It's pretty simple where the discontent is and no doubt the rumours are true. Macca after a few years of coaching is finally taking a hard line with players. It is a balance no doubt, but Macca is taking this direction because he dosent want the kids to have the same bad habits of the older players.

Ever seen Coons, Higgins, Boyd play two way football? Thats why his was hard on McCrae earlier in the year about his front running of the contest.

The only player that was dropped which I was surprised by was Wood. Thought he was the most improved player at the club this year outside the kids, and is the only player out of the speculated few who are not happy, that I'm keen to keep.

[Mofra]

If I was to have a hunch I would say there are some issues and the rumours have some merit.

I became suss when Wil Minson was dropped for a week. It didn't gel for some reason. You don't gain form with one week in the VFL, you don't try Ayce for a week in seniors.

At the time I recall thinking weird.
A Swans fan at the time said it was a smart move - Cordy's agility may have been the only way the Bulldogs could gain any advantage in the ruck and Cordy also gets they chance to experience AFL football after VFL form.

Always interesting to get an opposition opinion on a move.

[Dancin' Douggy]

A caller rang SEN to say Jones, Grant and Higgins didn't get along with the coach. pfffft.

How about this?

Get out there and prove you're worth something!!!!!!!
Play as if you care, and you've got a pair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Earn the coaches respect, and while you're at it, you just might earn the respect of the supporters,
and the AFL community in general.
You might get talked up in the paper and on the radio.
You might walk a little taller down the street.
You might feel great arriving at training, knowing you're a rock solid part of the senior team.

You might even start getting along with the coach.

Or, you can whinge and whine and walk...........
DONE!

[DISHLICKERS]

A Swans fan at the time said it was a smart move - Cordy's agility may have been the only way the Bulldogs could gain any advantage in the ruck and Cordy also gets they chance to experience AFL football after VFL form.

Always interesting to get an opposition opinion on a move.

And you do that for one week? Cordy experiences AFL football for a week and Macca seems to think that Dogs will get an advantage in the ruck against Swans because he is more agile?

You would think if this was the case that agility advantage in the ruck applied to more teams than Sydney, especially when you went in with Wil as your sole ruckman for most games.

[1eyedog]

Who says these players have the woopsies?? again it is mainly just hearsay and unless someone has connections within the club that confirm this, then this is merely hearsay. Media reports are often beat ups as they like to beat there own chest about some exclusive story. Until someone walks out of the club then really all these murmurs are merely rumours.

Agreed this thread is hilarious and nothing more than post-season Days of our Lives.

We all know Higgins is being held out like a carrot and we all know he's pretty soft and I assume nothing like the kind of footballer Macca wants in his team. If we can get an ok result out of it great. Jones has done absolutely nothing during his time at the club other than sing a few raps on Bulldogs TV and collect his monthly pay packet and while Wood has had a solid year I would say that the pressure is coming on him from an external source rather than at the club and he needs to make a decision. We've put our offer forward and he needs to swallow it or move on - he is a loss but can be replaced.

If it is true that any one of these players feels disgruntled it's because they didn't get the response they wanted when their managers asked the club for a pay rise. I'm not unhappy about losing all three but really, we must understand that young fellas coming out of contract at all clubs who are not playing finals are well within their right to assess their positions. Until I see some solid evidence of discontent with the coach I'll just assume it doesn't exist. I'm sure the player managers are getting in their charges ears about pay rises and worth on the open market - any leg up to increase their commission.

[DISHLICKERS]

A caller rang SEN to say Jones, Grant and Higgins didn't get along with the coach. pfffft.

How about this?

Get out there and prove you're worth something!!!!!!!
Play as if you care, and you've got a pair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Earn the coaches respect, and while you're at it, you just might earn the respect of the supporters,
and the AFL community in general.
You might get talked up in the paper and on the radio.
You might walk a little taller down the street.
You might feel great arriving at training, knowing you're a rock solid part of the senior team.

You might even start getting along with the coach.

Or, you can whinge and whine and walk...........
DONE!

Need to be careful here it is not one player there are several players mentioned.

If there was one player or even two you could ignore it but there maybe more than the three mentioned above.

There were several players on the way out when Rhode was coaching and unless there was a change there was a chance many would have walked. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE SAME CASE HERE BUT NEED TO BE CAREFUL.

[bornadog]

A caller rang SEN to say Jones, Grant and Higgins didn't get along with the coach. pfffft.

So add Griff, and Minson .

Houston we have a problem

[1eyedog]

Need to be careful here it is not one player there are several players mentioned.

If there was one player or even two you could ignore it but there maybe more than the three mentioned above.

There were several players on the way out when Rhode was coaching and unless there was a change there was a chance many would have walked. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE SAME CASE HERE BUT NEED TO BE CAREFUL.

Seriously, unless it is MaCrae, Bonti, Crammers, Stringer, Hrovat, Griffen, Libba or Roughie who gives a crap! Move out 4 or 5 of them free up some space in the cap and get some good strong players into the club who will tow the line. We've invested in Macca because we think he can take us to a Grand Final so its his way or the highway, if we don't see improvement he goes. If the demands of these players are outside of what we are prepared to do then we simply cannot give in to the demands of these players. This threatens all contracts / relationships within the club. There are obviously a few home truths being presented to players as part of post-season reviews - good on Macca it's time we stopped accepting mediocrity at this football club.

Jeemak mentioned in another post that its important that the dog wags the tail and not the other way around - how true that is.

[DISHLICKERS]

Seriously, unless it is MaCrae, Bonti, Crammers, Stringer, Hrovat, Griffen, Libba or Roughie who gives a crap! Move out 4 or 5 of them free up some space in the cap and get some good strong players into the club who will tow the line. We've invested in Macca because we think he can take us to a Grand Final so its his way or the highway, if we don't see improvement he goes. If the demands of these players are outside of what we are prepared to do then we simply cannot give in to the demands of these players. There are obviously a few home truths being presented to players as part of post-season reviews - good on Macca it's time we stopped accepting mediocrity at this football club. This threatens all contracts / relationships within the club.

Jeemak mentioned in another post that its important that the dog wags the tail and not the other way around - how true that is.

Yep ship out 4 or 5 blokes now and then in a couple of years time if Macca is not up to it ship him out and in the meantime what damage has he done to the playing list?

Playing list should be given some home truths yes and should be reviewed but even more scrutiny should be put on Macca and co in moving forward.

[BulldogBelle]

So its not Macca's man management skills that are the problem here?

It is one thing to try to get the best out of a player that you can, its another thing entirely when he cleans out his locker.

[Greystache]

So add Griff, and Minson .

Houston we have a problem

What based on an off hand remark from Gerard Healy on the couch? He probably heard it from someone who'd heard it from someone calling up SEN.

If Minson isn't unhappy with his end of season review then we do have a problem.

[Greystache]

So its not Macca's man management skills that are the problem here?

It is one thing to try to get the best out of a player that you can, its another thing entirely when he cleans out his locker.

If there's nothing that can get the best out of a player then him clearing out his locker IS the best result.

[bulldogtragic]

All with a grain of salt, but I wish I had a no-fault 'everyone is wrong but me' application from the outside world to me.

If a player gets dropped, good on Macca.
If a player plays bad, it's the players fault.
If the players are unhappy, get rid of them, they don't get Macca.
Macca goes too hard, good on Macca for not doing it.
Macca goes too developmental (soft), good on Macca
One out of 8 players develop this year, good on Macca, the other 7 have attitude problems, so good on Macca for leaving them in the VFL
And so on.

I'm not saying pot the man, far from it. FAR FROM IT.

But the defence of everything about Macca is becoming James Hird like. The only reason Lindsay Gilbee and others stayed was because the head coach got changed when the playing group cracked it. Those players were who retained were key to our finals chances. The word is 4 or more players of particular skill and age might walk out and leave the age profile hole in our list even worse. And it's everyone's fault but Macca??? It's over simplistic to say one or the other is wrong or right. If half a dozen players are pissed off, then it's not just a matter of shoving cool-aid down the throats of the rest of us. 4 players left Brisbane last year because they were unhappy with the club and that's an indictment on their organisation. 4 players of quality could leave our club and that's an indictment on those players... This is not welcome news, it take me back to watching Year of the Dog about what happens behind closed doors.

[bornadog]

Yep ship out 4 or 5 blokes now and then in a couple of years time if Macca is not up to it ship him out and in the meantime what damage has he done to the playing list?

Playing list should be given some home truths yes and should be reviewed but even more scrutiny should be put on Macca and co in moving forward.

Name names.

[GVGjr]

Let's wait to see if there is any substance behind this speculation. We didn't have a good season so I'd expect the coaching team to give the some of players a stern message.

We haven't got a lot to go on at the moment and while I dint doubt there is some substance behind all this it's rarely as bad as what you hear.

[1eyedog]

Yep ship out 4 or 5 blokes now and then in a couple of years time if Macca is not up to it ship him out and in the meantime what damage has he done to the playing list?

Playing list should be given some home truths yes and should be reviewed but even more scrutiny should be put on Macca and co in moving forward.

Like I said if it isn't any of the players I've named believe me we won't have a problem with the playing list in a couple of years time. I would argue that the list, and the club, will be damaged far more by being bent over the table by a few blokes who either have issues with discipline or are over-inflating their worth.

[LostDoggy]

it's time we stopped accepting mediocrity at this football club.


My favourite sentence from this thread.

[Maddog37]

This is all prefaced on rumour and innuendo.

[DISHLICKERS]

Name names.

I do not know of any names except for one who is assessing his options. I was merely responding to 1eyedog who said move out 4 or 5. What I was trying to say is you need to be careful because you move 4 or 5 now based on your current coaches list management assessment.

[DISHLICKERS]

Like I said if it isn't any of the players I've named believe me we won't have a problem with the playing list in a couple of years time. I would argue that the list, and the club, will be damaged far more by being bent over the table by a few blokes who either have issues with discipline or are over-inflating their worth.

You named 8 from a list of 38, so you would be ok with any of the other 30 going?

[bornadog]

I do not know of any names except for one who is assessing his options. I was merely responding to 1eyedog who said move out 4 or 5. What I was trying to say is you need to be careful because you move 4 or 5 now based on your current coaches list management assessment.

ok, fair enough

[Mofra]

If Minson isn't unhappy with his end of season review then we do have a problem.
This raises an interesting point - would we really be happy with ~40 nice, pleasant end of season reviews at the club?

We finished 5th last and had a terrible last 6 weeks. I'd expect the end of season reviews to be unpleasant (and that will also go for the coaching group, which by all accounts it is).

[whythelongface]

What based on an off hand remark from Gerard Healy on the couch? He probably heard it from someone who'd heard it from someone calling up SEN.

If Minson isn't unhappy with his end of season review then we do have a problem.

From what I read in an article he wasn't happy and knows he needs to work on things to make him a better player. Hopefully he takes the constructive criticism on board and works on these elements during the off-season to make him a better player (for our club).

Reviews can be a place where a few home truths are told and in a football environment these probably are harsher and more direct than in a 'normal' work environment. Individuals probably didn't like the fact that they had poor performance reviews, same as probably the coaching staff review (assuming they had one).

[LostDoggy]

So is Macca having a bit each way here? Sells us all his style and persona, telling all and sundry his methods will work (like there is something he knows that no one else does). Then this apparent to shift away from that style. You would certainly think a confident coach would be pretty steadfast In their approach, variation from this approach is a worrying sign!

[Remi Moses]

There's more theories on here than the Kennedy assassination .
I'd be disappointed if all reviews of the footy department weren't harsh !
We finished 14th !! For crying out loud.

[Bulldog Joe]

So is Macca having a bit each way here? Sells us all his style and persona, telling all and sundry his methods will work (like there is something he knows that no one else does). Then this apparent to shift away from that style. You would certainly think a confident coach would be pretty steadfast In their approach, variation from this approach is a worrying sign!

I don't see a variation from the approach. If he is being harsh with the review why wouldn't that be just reinforcing the need to adhere to the path with those he feels have deviated.

[LostDoggy]

I don't see a variation from the approach. If he is being harsh with the review why wouldn't that be just reinforcing the need to adhere to the path with those he feels have deviated.

I don't mean his game plan, I mean his way of interacting with players.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't mean his game plan, I mean his way of interacting with players.

Nobody can be 100% nice

[Remi Moses]

Do we think Malthouse isn't liked by some of his players past or present?
You've got forty blokes different personalities, different opinions , different backgrounds.
Leigh Matthews and Don Scott couldn't stand each other.
You can't give minimal output and expect a cuddle

[LostDoggy]

I agree, more so that he should have been taking this harder line even earlier. It just smacks a bit of desperation that he seems to have changed his ways so abruptly. Anyway time will tell with Macca, he will either be proven a genius or a fraud.

[Remi Moses]

I agree, more so that he should have been taking this harder line even earlier. It just smacks a bit of desperation that he seems to have changed his ways so abruptly. Anyway time will tell with Macca, he will either be proven a genius or a fraud.

Time will tell

[Mofra]

I agree, more so that he should have been taking this harder line even earlier. It just smacks a bit of desperation that he seems to have changed his ways so abruptly. Anyway time will tell with Macca, he will either be proven a genius or a fraud.
He hasn't.

Why do you think he has?

[chef]

I agree, more so that he should have been taking this harder line even earlier. It just smacks a bit of desperation that he seems to have changed his ways so abruptly. Anyway time will tell with Macca, he will either be proven a genius or a fraud.

How would you know this?

[LostDoggy]

No knowledge just going off the vibe from what I've heard and this thread. Everything I say regarding Macca probably has a negative overtone as I seriously wanted Cameron initially, then think we jumped the gun re - signing him. But we have what we have now, god willing I am wrong.

[LostDoggy]

How would you know this?

I did say seems to.

[anfo27]

No knowledge just going off the vibe from what I've heard and this thread. Everything I say regarding Macca probably has a negative overtone as I seriously wanted Cameron initially, then think we jumped the gun re - signing him. But we have what we have now, god willing I am wrong.

You seem to be going hard on a lot of assumptions here. What makes Cameron such a good coach anyway?

[chef]

No knowledge just going off the vibe from what I've heard and this thread. Everything I say regarding Macca probably has a negative overtone as I seriously wanted Cameron initially, then think we jumped the gun re - signing him. But we have what we have now, god willing I am wrong.

I was in the same boat at the time.

I guess all we do is hope we've made the right decision and only time will tell.

[bornadog]

I was in the same boat at the time.

I guess all we do is hope we've made the right decision and only time will tell.

We must make the 8 or at minimum win 11 games next year or I seriously will start to question Macca and his coaching team

[LostDoggy]

You seem to be going hard on a lot of assumptions here. What makes Cameron such a good coach anyway?

Club legend, presents well, seemed to have the right credentials and experience. You could argue how successful that cocktail has been with Voss and Buckley, but think Camerons tenure at Richmond was a much better grounding then those other two.

As for going hard on assumptions, why not? Simply an opinion in an open forum.

[Remi Moses]

I hope Mccartneys not getting the " we must make the eight " ultimatum .
We all want improvement, but wer're not making the eight next season.

[Remi Moses]

Club legend, presents well, seemed to have the right credentials and experience. You could argue how successful that cocktail has been with Voss and Buckley, but think Camerons tenure at Richmond was a much better grounding then those other two.

As for going hard on assumptions, why not? Simply an opinion in an open forum.

I don't know how " club legend " equates to being a decent coach.
Leon's been given the keys to the loot with GWS.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know how " club legend " equates to being a decent coach.
Leon's been given the keys to the loot with GWS.

Bit sterile, surely someone who has bled for the club gets extra weighting. Doesn't mean he was a lock to be a good coach, but even without his doggies history, he seemed at least as likely as any of the other candidates IMO.

[anfo27]

Club legend, presents well, seemed to have the right credentials and experience. You could argue how successful that cocktail has been with Voss and Buckley, but think Camerons tenure at Richmond was a much better grounding then those other two.

As for going hard on assumptions, why not? Simply an opinion in an open forum.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I'm certainly not having a crack at you for voicing it but this is my opinion. Unless you are in there or know someone who does you have no idea if he has changed his approach to the players or not. I find reading your posts on this topic annoying because it seems obvious you don't want macca in charge and you're looking at any little rumour to start your 'sack macca campaign'.

I personally think we made a courageous decision in appointing macca. The easy choice would have been Leon for all the reasons you have listed but that doesn't mean it's the right one.

[LostDoggy]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I'm certainly not having a crack at you for voicing it but this is my opinion. Unless you are in there or know someone who does you have no idea if he has changed his approach to the players or not. I find reading your posts on this topic annoying because it seems obvious you don't want macca in charge and you're looking at any little rumour to start your 'sack macca campaign'.

I personally think we made a courageous decision in appointing macca. The easy choice would have been Leon for all the reasons you have listed but that doesn't mean it's the right one.

Fair enough, I've declared my bona fides that I have no knowledge of the inner workings of the club.

[Remi Moses]

Bit sterile, surely someone who has bled for the club gets extra weighting. Doesn't mean he was a lock to be a good coach, but even without his doggies history, he seemed at least as likely as any of the other candidates IMO.
He was just as good as the others granted, but the whole club legend, bleeding for the club ,is utter nonsense.

[Remi Moses]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I'm certainly not having a crack at you for voicing it but this is my opinion. Unless you are in there or know someone who does you have no idea if he has changed his approach to the players or not. I find reading your posts on this topic annoying because it seems obvious you don't want macca in charge and you're looking at any little rumour to start your 'sack macca campaign'.

I personally think we made a courageous decision in appointing macca. The easy choice would have been Leon for all the reasons you have listed but that doesn't mean it's the right one.

That's what I think as well.
Every year there would be disgruntled players at every club who don't like what they're hearing.
I'm sure the coaching staff aren't immune to be heavily critiqued, as we've seen Shannon Grant's goneski.

[anfo27]

That's what I think as well.
Every year there would be disgruntled players at every club who don't like what they're hearing.
I'm sure the coaching staff aren't immune to be heavily critiqued, as we've seen Shannon Grant's goneski.

Senior players not being happy doesn't mean much to me cause I'm not happy with the senior players. Most of the senior players I would say had down years but our kids took some steps so thats a big positive there. We are on the right track we just need a few more pieces so I'm hoping like hell we are out there trying to get a Carlisle or another big name. It's time we stopped being the nice guys and everyone's second favourite team.

[jeemak]

I've thought for a while we've had a core of senior players that have collectively failed to stand up when serious pressure is applied on the field. Many of the failings these past three seasons (aside from a lack of talent) have been due to inactivity from the players on the ground at specific moments (for example, our inability to stem the flow of goals for extended periods in a quarter due to a failure to stand goal side in the centre of the ground - or at stoppages - or some midfielders not deciding to play with a more defencive mindset) which is something the senior players should take charge of without direction from the coaching team as required.

When we have a run against us often it is the senior players looking for a spot on the field to cower into, with their heads dropped rather than digging in and leading from the front.

At the start of the year our coach publicly stated execution of trained behaviour is what he needed to see from our list. He also stated he was going to be less forgiving of players who don't tow the line and start putting things together at the required level on the field. The result has been Jones, Wood, Higgins and Minson being dropped.

Wood was a little surprising to me, though each of the other three has at times performed poorly and deserved to be dropped when they were dropped.

I am not too worried about these reports, as others have said we shouldn't have too many pleasant reviews this year - particularly when it comes to senior players who are not performing the basics that players from successful clubs perform without batting an eyelid.

There is no way our coach is perfect. There's no doubt he is learning on the job and has a lot to learn moving forward with an aspect of that likely being how to effectively manage multiple personalities.

[Twodogs]

I have no problem with Wood being dropped. To my eye it seemed that he was sent back to Footscray and told to work on an aspect of his play. That he addressed the problem to the satisfaction of the coaching staff so quickly and was back in the seniors straight away is to his credit I reckon.

[Dancin' Douggy]

We must make the 8 or at minimum win 11 games next year or I seriously will start to question Macca and his coaching team

I will never understand this logic. We could trade in a bunch of adequate players and achieve this goal, but we may be no closer to winning a flag. I just want to see the list built right without caring how many games we win.

[bulldogtragic]

I will never understand this logic. We could trade in a bunch of adequate players and achieve this goal, but we may be no closer to winning a flag. I just want to see the list built right without caring how many games we win.

Tend to agree. Human nature would be Macca feeling pressure so much we trade in Fev', McGuires, Xaviers etc, etc to try to get some cheap wins. We are this far down the track we need to stay it. That said, if enough KPI's aren't in the right direction in 12 months then we have to ask, or the board does, whether Macca can see the plan out better than anyone else. No point guessing, but we must have significant improvement.

[bornadog]

I will never understand this logic. We could trade in a bunch of adequate players and achieve this goal, but we may be no closer to winning a flag. I just want to see the list built right without caring how many games we win.

Next year will be the 5th year of a rebuild. Yes ony Macca's 4th but in 2011 due to lot of injuries we debuted 11 players and some of those guys like Dahl, Roughead, Liba, Wallis have now got 50 games under their belt. 5 years of rebuilding we have to show something and the only measure of success for supporters is winning games.

[Twodogs]

I don't think what somebody else does should show up on Macca's timeline. We will be four years into Macca's five year plan next year.

[1eyedog]

You named 8 from a list of 38, so you would be ok with any of the other 30 going?

No I would also be unhappy if we lost Honeychurch or Hunter.

[Remi Moses]

The worrying thing would be that our recruiting policy would go down the toilet.
You'd see short term recruiting that will only give a short spurt of success.
Keep going the draft, and no short term lemmings thanks.

[Remi Moses]

I don't think what somebody else does should show up on Macca's timeline. We will be four years into Macca's five year plan next year.

Wouldn't have thought he'd have got Sherman in.
The rebuild started on Mccartney's watch.

[Topdog]

I don't think what somebody else does should show up on Macca's timeline. We will be four years into Macca's five year plan next year.

What was his goal for the 4th or 5th year of this plan?

[chef]

I don't think what somebody else does should show up on Macca's timeline. We will be four years into Macca's five year plan next year.

This. Our list was left in shambles from the previous guys.

We are tracking the right way, but we still aren't near a finals spot for 2015. Supporters need to be patient.

[LostDoggy]

Supporters need to be patient.

Agree, but after 47 years of failure (my lifetime) its very, very, very hard.

[chef]

Agree, but after 47 years of failure (my lifetime) its very, very, very hard.

True(I've done 37 years), but we don't have a choice to be honest.

[1eyedog]

True(I've done 37 years), but we don't have a choice to be honest.

That's right we don't but why haven't Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or even Essendon bottomed out? For Pete's sake we were playing finals against the first three teams I mentioned through 08-09 and Essendon have been playing finals since Knights and still have a strong list.

[bornadog]

I don't think what somebody else does should show up on Macca's timeline. We will be four years into Macca's five year plan next year.

As a supporter, it will be 5 years as far as I am concerned. I don't want to end up like Melbourne or Richmond with every new coach having a 5 year plan.

What I am saying is the young guns from 2011 should be ready next year to takeover from the current senior guys. We don't want to be relying on Morris, Murphy, Boyd, Minson anymore. They are now there to help guide and assist and steady the ship.

[Greystache]

That's right we don't but why haven't Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or even Essendon bottomed out? For Pete's sake we were playing finals against the first three teams I mentioned through 08-09 and Essendon have been playing finals since Knights and still have a strong list.

Essendon? The highest they've finished in the last 10 years is 7th and haven't won a final in over a decade. Only Richmond has a worse record.

Our recruiting during the Eade era was probably the worst in our history, year after year we brought in inadequate players with either gaping physical limitations or attitude problems. From 2005 to 2010 we only have a handful of players left on the list, and except for our F/S almost none of them are key components to the team, that's why we're where we are.

The rebuild started after the 2011 season when we finally started recruiting with some form of system but it's a long way back from where we started.

[Mofra]

That's right we don't but why haven't Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or even Essendon bottomed out?
Hawthorn did bottom out - Roughy was a pick 2 and Buddy pick 5.
They even fluffed a few first rounders as well during their rebuild.

Sydney have Cola, Essendon have been a nothing team for over a decade.

[chef]

That's right we don't but why haven't Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or even Essendon bottomed out? For Pete's sake we were playing finals against the first three teams I mentioned through 08-09 and Essendon have been playing finals since Knights and still have a strong list.

Because Rocket, Fantasia and Clayton screwed up our list management, recruiting and trading during the 00's leaving us with a thread bare core to our team.

Has to be remembered we've only recently righted the ship(from about 2011) with Dalrymple becoming fulltime, getting a list manager, having a coach who seems to be great at developing kids etc

[azabob]

Hawthorn did bottom out - Roughy was a pick 2 and Buddy pick 5.
They even fluffed a few first rounders as well during their rebuild.

Sydney have Cola, Essendon have been a nothing team for over a decade.

Jordan Lewis was pick 7 from the same draft from memory.

[ledge]

Essendon have been playing finals but haven't won one in ten years, Richmond the same and nth were the same until this year .. Exactly what Macca said he didn't want to happen at this club.. He said we are here to win finals not just be happy to make them. So if your if just happy to make finals, it's the same culture we have had in 50 years.

[Remi Moses]

Hawthorn were dreadful in the mid 2000's
Port stunk it up for 5 years, and Geelong just recruited the eyes out of two drafts.( 01 99)
Sydney have an extra million to play with ( might be handy)
We're playing at not even95% !

[Remi Moses]

Because Rocket, Fantasia and Clayton screwed up our list management, recruiting and trading during the 00's leaving us with a thread bare core to our team.

Has to be remembered we've only recently righted the ship(from about 2011) with Dalrymple becoming fulltime, getting a list manager, having a coach who seems to be great at developing kids etc

Clayton gets away with murder, and just rode the 99 draft successes for his entire tenure.

[Murphy'sLore]

Sorry to be pedantic, but could the mods possibly correct the spelling of the title of this thread? Dissension, please. It's giving me a headache to keep seeing it…

Thanks and sorry.

[Remi Moses]

Sorry to be pedantic, but could the mods possibly correct the spelling of the title of this thread? Dissension, please. It's giving me a headache to keep seeing it…

Thanks and sorry.
Hmmm dissension in the spelling

[bornadog]

Clayton gets away with murder, and just rode the 99 draft successes for his entire tenure.

Murder gave us three prelims plus one other finals campaign.

[chef]

Clayton gets away with murder, and just rode the 99 draft successes for his entire tenure.

Yep. That was a cracking draft that along with the guns already on our list formed the nucleus of a very decent side. But the lack of repeating this form for the next decade in all honesty probably cost us a chance of a flag when we were up and flying. His effort in the first rounds(and with talls) is pretty cringe worthy.

[bornadog]

Yep. That was a cracking draft that along with the guns already on our list formed the nucleus of a very decent side. But the lack of repeating this form for the next decade in all honesty probably cost us a chance of a flag when we were up and flying. His effort in the first rounds(and with talls) is pretty cringe worthy.

I posted this in the Dalrmple Thread, which is appropriate here. I can't agree with you totally on Clayton.


Yet conveniently left out is players like Cooney, Griffen, Ward, Harbrow, Higgins, Cross, McMahon, Minson, Wood, Jones, Roughead

I know some of these guys are not first rounders or elite, but there are some good players there.

No matter what you think or supporters think of some of these guys, Ray has played almost 200 games, Everitt 100, and McMahon played over 100 games,

I can go through every single club and see how many elites have been picked out in the first round and I bet the record is not much better than ours. Don't forget after 2006, we finished higher up on the ladder and didn't get a chance to pick in the top 5.

Lets see how Simon goes. He has already picked guys like Howard, Fuller, Goodes, Lower, Pearce, Prudden and the rest still have to prove themselves. Yes the last two years he has done well, but hey we had picks 4,5,6.

[chef]

I posted this in the Dalrmple Thread, which is appropriate here. I can't agree with you totally on Clayton.

Yeah I responded to that over there to buddy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Clayton. I'm not much of a fan.

[Remi Moses]

Murder gave us three prelims plus one other finals campaign.

McMahon Power, Walsh, Ray Higgins Everitt Grant Cordy
Not saying Claytons a failure, but there's a fair few misses there .
Can't afford to get those picks wrong

[jeemak]

I can't have it that Higgins is a miss. Injury cruelled him and he'll play 200 league games. Bit harsh on Ray too.

Jury is out on Cordy, not many if any recruiters would have passed on him late first round.

[Go_Dogs]

That's right we don't but why haven't Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or even Essendon bottomed out? For Pete's sake we were playing finals against the first three teams I mentioned through 08-09 and Essendon have been playing finals since Knights and still have a strong list.

For mine, this is a huge part of what we're trying to build to - being a side that stays at the pointy end and doesn't have to bottom out and make wholesale list changes. It's a long process, but if we can have success like Geelong has, or Sydney or Hawthorn who I still rate as the benchmarks, then it'll all be worth it. We have to be prepared to stay the course, although I think it's reasonable we expect the results to improve in 2015.

[Bulldog4life]

Macca on 3AW tonight. Not sure what time.

[Bulldog4life]

Macca on 3AW tonight. Not sure what time.

On after 6.30pm

[azabob]

On after 6.30pm

Perhaps not now considering the Sanderson news.

[azabob]

On after 6.30pm

FYI if it still goes ahead I think it was at 6.50.

[Bulldog4life]

FYI if it still goes ahead I think it was at 6.50.

Ok thanks. Can't see any reason why interview wouldn't go head.

[GVGjr]

Talking around the question of Minson leaving the meeting

Talking up the pressure Minson was under this season and the extra attention he received.

Talking up the Footscray season and in particular the work Chris Maple and Ash Hansen have done.

Post season assessment on his performance with Gordon and Chris Grant etc has occurred.

[FrediKanoute]

I don't think you can hold McMahon, Ray and Everitt up as misses either. A guy who plays 100 to 150 games of footy is no slouch - a good reason why these guys failed is as much to do with out lack of development/infrastructure as anything else

[Bulldog4life]

Talking around the question of Minson leaving the meeting

Talking up the pressure Minson was under this season and the extra attention he received.

Talking up the Footscray season and in particular the work Chris Maple and Ash Hansen have done.

Post season assessment on his performance with Gordon and Chris Grant etc has occurred.

I thought Macca sounded very flat.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought Macca sounded very flat.

AFL360 suggest rumblings Macca may be sacked.

Could be a massive 24 hours, if we're contemplating making a move I suggest we'll do so quickly so the Crows don't get a head start in the race.

[Twodogs]

What was his goal for the 4th or 5th year of this plan?


AFL360 suggest rumblings Macca may be sacked.

Could be a massive 24 hours, if we're contemplating making a move I suggest we'll do so quickly so the Crows don't get a head start in the race.


For sure. We don't want to look like we've pulled our own pants down.

[ledge]

If he has had his review and is still there,and doing radio interviews wouldn't you think he would be safe ?

[Twodogs]

If he has had his review and is still there,and doing radio interviews wouldn't you think he would be safe ?

You would think so.

[Maddog37]

I don't see Macca being sacked but next year is make or break.

[Twodogs]

It would be crazy to sack him. I couldn't stand another 5 year plan.

[Bulldog4life]

AFL360 suggest rumblings Macca may be sacked.

Could be a massive 24 hours, if we're contemplating making a move I suggest we'll do so quickly so the Crows don't get a head start in the race.

I heard David King say that if the rumblings with the senior players are true the only winner out of this will be Macca.

[Webby]

If he has had his review and is still there,and doing radio interviews wouldn't you think he would be safe ?

Consensus on AFL 360 was that McCartney is safe and would be somewhat pleased that all this has come to the surface. King said "McCartney would have learnt just as much about his players over the past few days as he has over the 2hrs on Saturdays over the past few months."

He sees it as a positive as it'll give him direction on where to take the club.

Personally, I've been bullish about us looking to trade the players who are too old for our window for over a year. (Those with currency, that is - which is two and a half of them). This year has demonstrated that our younger guys can carry a load of U21's and I had been hoping the club would be ballsy enough to do it.

Hopefully this little episode is the catalyst to bring it on... And I'd be looking to send a couple of blokes up the Western Highway for the right price. It's time to set our sights on the 2017-2022 premiership window.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It would be crazy to sack him. I couldn't stand another 5 year plan.

How would it be crazy? His results are terrible.

Sacking him doesn't mean we need another 5 year plan. It would mean the club believes we simply need a new philosophy to take us to where we want to go.

I like Macca as a person and he speaks well, but I don't rate him whatsoever on match day. I would welcome the change.

[kruder]

AFL360 suggest rumblings Macca may be sacked.

Could be a massive 24 hours, if we're contemplating making a move I suggest we'll do so quickly so the Crows don't get a head start in the race.

I didn't get that at all. King, Maclure, Robbo and Gerrard sounded like they were backing to the coach to me... and that the senior players in question were poor this year hence welcomed the home truths.

[anfo27]

Already an article on the herald sun website about maccas interview from the great Jon Ralph.

[F'scary]

It would be crazy to sack him. I couldn't stand another 5 year plan.

so says everyone in North Korea.

[bulldogtragic]

As much as I'm frustrated at times by match day issues with the head coach, we just don't have the cash to be paying out 2 years wages for no return. Also I've got tickets to hear BMac talk on Friday, I think it'd be better if he was still employed from a listening perspective. I hope he's still brutally honest and the JackMac stuff hasn't muzzled him.

[DISHLICKERS]

I thought Macca sounded very flat.

I thought he sounded mighty unconvincing. His whole explanation regarding Wil was a train wreck. To tell us he had interrupted preseason and he dropped him in Round 22 to take the pressure of him was complete tripe. You wanted to help Wil get him a second ruck.

I'm over him TBH.

[The Doctor]

Because Rocket, Fantasia and Clayton screwed up our list management, recruiting and trading during the 00's leaving us with a thread bare core to our team.


Yes and that triumvirate almost got us to a flag and had to rejuvenate us after the Rohde/Newport years of ignominy. Yes they made mistakes but rocket and clayton in particular were the key architects of our prelim teams. Whereas their incumbents have not been able to rejuvenate us and on current evidence seem more likely to lead us to the spoon.



Has to be remembered we've only recently righted the ship(from about 2011) with Dalrymple becoming fulltime, getting a list manager, having a coach who seems to be great at developing kids etc

What exactly have we righted?

We have poured more money in to the footy dept in recent years and still no results and the future remains bleak. When you have a bunch of top end picks it is easy to say the coach is good at developing kids. Elite talent will shine through regardless like cooney did under Rohde. however Macartney probably is good with the kids. But what about the rest of the list? not much going well there i would say.

[ledge]

Maybe Macca isn't a good game day coach but wow he knows how to pick in the draft .. I would say one bad Player in three years.
Ok getting early picks might not be that hard but his later ones have been excellent.. Honey church at 60 for example

[LostDoggy]

Macca moving on would be bullshit. IMO he's the kind of mentor we've needed. Our soft mentality is the reason we never made it into the final dance in the last 20 years. He's a rock solid person that the club is building around. I can't recall a time when I've felt the club has been so on track, financially, in the board room, vision-wise. The picks are paying off. The deadwood is being trimmed.

His match day coaching will come. To date that's the only short-fall I've seen on occasion. But the rest of the pieces are coming into place. I don't give a fruitcake what the senior players think who've been there for various regimes. This is our chance, as said above, to become the Geelong, Freo, Hawks, Sydneys with extended runs at premierships through rock solid foundations.

[jeemak]

How would it be crazy? His results are terrible.

Sacking him doesn't mean we need another 5 year plan. It would mean the club believes we simply need a new philosophy to take us to where we want to go.

I like Macca as a person and he speaks well, but I don't rate him whatsoever on match day. I would welcome the change.


In terms of output what were you expecting compared to what was delivered?

Would two extra wins have made all the difference this year?

Dean Laidley was an excellent match day coach, as were Eade and Wallace. How were the clubs they coached in an holistic sense once they were removed?

[DISHLICKERS]

Maybe Macca isn't a good game day coach but wow he knows how to pick in the draft .. I would say one bad Player in three years.
Ok getting early picks might not be that hard but his later ones have been excellent.. Honey church at 60 for example

A good coach needs to be a good day game coach. Picking in the draft is the recruiters dept with some input from a good game day coach.

[The Doctor]

I thought he sounded mighty unconvincing. His whole explanation regarding Wil was a train wreck. To tell us he had interrupted preseason and he dropped him in Round 22 to take the pressure of him was complete tripe. You wanted to help Wil get him a second ruck.

I'm over him TBH.

He was dreadful. Let's not beat about the bush.

He did nothing to say that we are on track or that his vision is being embraced by the playing group. He did nothing to sell us to the swinging supporter. He would have been better off not saying anything.

[azabob]

He was dreadful. Let's not beat about the bush.

He did nothing to say that we are on track or that his vision is being embraced by the playing group. He did nothing to sell us to the swinging supporter. He would have been better off not saying anything.

Agree it was a very non plussed interview.

[bulldogtragic]

The 'pack your bags McCartney' is a fascinating thread of assessing the rise and fall of support of Macca. I would bump the 'pack your bags McCartney' thread for conversation sake, but I'd be shot. Anyone else care to bump it?

[jeemak]

The 'pack your bags McCartney' is a fascinating thread of assessing the rise and fall of support of Macca. I would bump the 'pack your bags McCartney' thread for conversation sake, but I'd be shot. Anyone else care to bump it?

Just bump it and done with it.

[Hotdog60]

Not to fussed about it one way or another. How would you go doing a interview and finding out your mate just got the chop.

By the looks of things he got through his review and still has a job. Maybe during that review some heat was put on him. I listen to the broadcast and it sounded like some of the interviews he does after a loss.

[bulldogtragic]

Just bump it and done with it.

Last time I bumped it I spent 200 words explaining it was for conversation as it can be read as a roller coaster of ups and downs of Macca love. It's a very interesting read, but I copped abuse for weeks for bumping it. People get lost in the poor title, but reading the ups and downs of the thread I think is quite interesting. I'm trying to keep positive about a Grand Final and have no time for haters this week.

[bornadog]

Last time I bumped it I spent 200 words explaining it was for conversation as it can be read as a roller coaster of ups and downs of Macca love. It's a very interesting read, but I copped abuse for weeks for bumping it. People get lost in the poor title, but reading the ups and downs of the thread I think is quite interesting. I'm trying to keep positive about a Grand Final and have no time for haters this week.

I will bump it next week just for you.:D

[GVGjr]

Maybe Macca isn't a good game day coach

I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't a good game day coach.


but wow he knows how to pick in the draft .. I would say one bad Player in three years.
Ok getting early picks might not be that hard but his later ones have been excellent.. Honey church at 60 for example

We have a recruiting manager and a list manager so Macca doesn't deserve much credit for the players we draft.
He has his say and gets involved but that's about it.

[EasternWest]

Last time I bumped it I spent 200 words explaining it was for conversation as it can be read as a roller coaster of ups and downs of Macca love. It's a very interesting read, but I copped abuse for weeks for bumping it. People get lost in the poor title, but reading the ups and downs of the thread I think is quite interesting. I'm trying to keep positive about a Grand Final and have no time for haters this week.

Geez, I'll just bump it now. Scaredy cat.

[jeemak]

I thought he sounded mighty unconvincing. His whole explanation regarding Wil was a train wreck. To tell us he had interrupted preseason and he dropped him in Round 22 to take the pressure of him was complete tripe. You wanted to help Wil get him a second ruck.

I'm over him TBH.


He was dreadful. Let's not beat about the bush.

He did nothing to say that we are on track or that his vision is being embraced by the playing group. He did nothing to sell us to the swinging supporter. He would have been better off not saying anything.


Agree it was a very non plussed interview.

It's funny, I didn't think the explanation was too bad when it came to how Will was being managed and why he was dropped. I also didn't think he sounded a lot different to how he does throughout the year. I guess we all hear things differently.

Just on Will, if the rumours are true that he cut the post season interview short then it doesn't reflect well on him.

[bulldogtragic]

I will bump it next week just for you.:D

Thanks BAD, as long as you cop the abuse!

If you have a read it's interesting to see what is covered by winning, and what the concerns are on an ongoing lull to lull. It seems Macca is polarising in the sense the strong support and strong criticism seems quick. It's worth reading to see what the consistent good things are, but also what the constant criticism is. And whether winning or losing over-accentuates the rate of posting, but rather the posting in his defence.

But that's enough negativity out of me.

[bornadog]

Thanks BAD, as long as you cop the abuse!

If you have a read it's interesting to see what is covered by winning, and what the concerns are on an ongoing lull to lull. It seems Macca is polarising in the sense the strong support and strong criticism seems quick. It's worth reading to see what the consistent good things are, but also what the constant criticism is. And whether winning or losing over-accentuates the rate of posting, but rather the posting in his defence.

But that's enough negativity out of me.

Too late it has been bumped.

[jeemak]

It also contains some of the most ridiculous posting seen on this web site.

[bulldogtragic]

Too late it has been bumped.

Oh great! :)

[DISHLICKERS]

It's funny, I didn't think the explanation was too bad when it came to how Will was being managed and why he was dropped. I also didn't think he sounded a lot different to how he does throughout the year. I guess we all hear things differently.

Just on Will, if the rumours are true that he cut the post season interview short then it doesn't reflect well on him.

Can't agree with you regarding his explanation if Wil. Telling us he had an interrupted preseason and then put him in the VFL for a week to relieve the pressure on him spare us Macca, please don't insult us, biggest load of crap I have heard in a long time.

[jeemak]

Can't agree with you regarding his explanation if Wil. Telling us he had an interrupted preseason and then put him in the VFL for a week to relieve the pressure on him spare us Macca, please don't insult us, biggest load of crap I have heard in a long time.

Agree to disagree then.

[Hotdog60]

Will Minson insists he can bounce back after disappointing 2014 season for Western Bulldogs


WILL Minson insists he can fight back to the lofty heights of 2013 after a disappointing season that saw him plummet down football’s pecking order.

Minson, 29, last year’s All-Australian ruckman, was dropped for the Round 22 loss to Sydney and finished 17th in the Western Bulldogs’ best and fairest earlier this month. But he expects to bounce back.

“After the season I’ve just had I’m even more determined now to return to good form next year,” he said.

“It’s just a challenge every year and you’ve got to find ways to improve and I’ll be working hard in the off-season to find those improvements.

“It was a tremendous positive last year and I set new heights for myself. I wasn’t able to return to them this year and I was really disappointed.”

“Probably last year my worst performance was still a pass mark and unfortunately this year I had a few games where the performances weren’t good enough.”

Minson signed a new two-year contract extension last December which ties him to the kennel until the end of 2016. But he was struck down with a back injury soon after, which derailed his pre-season program.

“You can look into the reasons why (for poor form) forever and you can say I missed a large proportion of pre-season training prior to Christmas with a back injury,” Minson said.

“You tell yourself that’s not going to be an issue, that you’re going to be fine, you’ll push through, that you’ve had bigger challenges in the past and you’ve overcome them and this will be no different.

“But the competition gets harder and harder every year and you’ve got to be on-song in every training session and every week and largely, as you probably saw, I struggled to do that.”

Minson will recharge the batteries over the off-season, finishing a science degree and continuing his role for health promotion organisation, Red Dust Role Models.

He said he was excited about the potential of the Dogs’ list, highlighting the emergence of Marcus Bontempelli and Jackson Macrae and the continued excellence of best and fairest winner Tom Liberatore.
LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/will-minson-insists-he-can-bounce-back-after-disappointing-2014-season-for-western-bulldogs/story-fni5fazt-1227058310807)

[bulldogtragic]

It also contains some of the most ridiculous posting seen on this web site.

True, but I'm assuming they all want a strong club, and hopefully are members. The thread represents views of some or many of the clubs 'supporters' over a long period of time. If there's rediculous comments let them defend them or relinquish them. But as I say it's an interesting thread to read. And it stops every thread on WOOF being about Macca.

[bornadog]

Can't agree with you regarding his explanation if Wil. Telling us he had an interrupted preseason and then put him in the VFL for a week to relieve the pressure on him spare us Macca, please don't insult us, biggest load of crap I have heard in a long time.

I sat next to Will at a luncheon half way in the year and he said the opposition were putting more into him since his AA selection. I think the MC has not handled the situation well rucking him for 90 to 95% of the time and expecting him to be a super star. How many games did he get double tagged and worked over by the opposition and we refused to bring in Campbell or Cordy to be a second ruck. Poor decision by the MC.

[jeemak]

Looks like Will Minson's a raving bullshit artist too.

[GVGjr]

I hope he's still brutally honest and the JackMac stuff hasn't muzzled him.

I'd almost bet that it has. He made it very clear when he apologised for the Macrae comments that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

It's not really his job to sell the club to the supporters in media interviews and I think that they save the more passionate and honest commentary for club functions. If your not winning enough games most supporters won't be happy with what ever answers a coach gives so most of them just talk and answer questions in a roundabout way.

[DISHLICKERS]

I sat next to Will at a luncheon half way in the year and he said the opposition were putting more into him since his AA selection. I think the MC has not handled the situation well rucking him for 90 to 95% of the time and expecting him to be a super star. How many games did he get double tagged and worked over by the opposition and we refused to bring in Campbell or Cordy to be a second ruck. Poor decision by the MC.

The second ruck situation had me bemused all year. It did Liam Jones, Roughy, Tommy Williams etc no favours and it seemed it did Wil no favour either. Baffling that one.

[bornadog]

Looks like Will Minson's a raving bullshit artist too.
Please explain

[GVGjr]

The second ruck situation had me bemused all year. It did Liam Jones, Roughy, Tommy Williams etc no favours and it seemed it did Wil no favour either. Baffling that one.

We can't afford to play 2 genuine ruckman if one of them is Will. It needs to be a Jones or Roughead giving him a spell.
Will just isn't viable to spend 10 minutes per quarter as a forward so we need him to ruck as much as he can.

[bornadog]

From HS whch sums it up beautifully


If there are festering issues, the Dogs must confront them ahead of another year of expectation for a group which has won just 20 of 66 games under McCartney.If there are weaknesses among both senior players and coach, then get on the same page to begin addressing them.
If McCartney, contracted until the end of 2016, needs to improve his match-day performance and his communication style, that message must be given loud and clear.
He isn’t going anywhere with two years on his deal but the Dogs simply must jump from seven wins to 10-12 next year and need a stable summer platform to set up that goal.
The time for straight talking is now at Whitten Oval.

[jeemak]

Please explain

He's basically confirmed the exact thing Bmac said in his interview with 3aw.

A soft preseason hurt him and he didn't perform well enough.

[Topdog]

He's basically confirmed the exact thing Bmac said in his interview with 3aw.

A soft preseason hurt him and he didn't perform well enough.

I dont think anyone is complaining about the poor pre season it is more the "I gave him a rest" in round 22 that is being offered up as crap.

I havent listened to the interview so have no opinion

[Remi Moses]

This is just nonsense honestly.
Minson has his best season rucking solo, and yet people complain when he doesn't get help.
The same people would be moaning up a storm if in getting that help Minson still struggled.
McCartney can't win either way, and Minson had a crap year . End of story.

[Remi Moses]

From HS whch sums it up beautifully

Jon " captain bloody obvious " Ralph.

[Remi Moses]

I'd almost bet that it has. He made it very clear when he apologised for the Macrae comments that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

It's not really his job to sell the club to the supporters in media interviews and I think that they save the more passionate and honest commentary for club functions. If your not winning enough games most supporters won't be happy with what ever answers a coach gives so most of them just talk and answer questions in a roundabout way.

Great post G.
Forgot the like button

[Sedat]

This is just nonsense honestly.
Minson has his best season rucking solo, and yet people complain when he doesn't get help.
The same people would be moaning up a storm if in getting that help Minson still struggled.
McCartney can't win either way, and Minson had a crap year . End of story.
Yep, pretty much sums up the situation perfectly. Minno needs to ruck 95% of game time to be effective - unfortunately for him and the team he happened to stink it up this year. He is not a 50/50 time-sharing ruckman - well he was with Huddo for a while until the sub rule weeded out the one trick ponies. He's either head banana in the ruck for us or he plays VFL

[jeemak]

I dont think anyone is complaining about the poor pre season it is more the "I gave him a rest" in round 22 that is being offered up as crap.

I havent listened to the interview so have no opinion

At the time he said Minson was dropped due to form, after a long portion of time where he had been working on things with him.

It now comes out that Minson was struggling all year due to poor preparation, though McCartney didn't mention this at the time.

So, we either take his word for it now and believe he dropped him due to poor form and to release the pressure at the time with the result being an improved performance in his return game (mentioned in the interview), or we believe the coach wanted to put more pressure on Minson and punish him for poor form once again with the outcome being an improved performance in his return game.

I'll leave it up to you to make your mind up on which scenario is more likely. I just can't see what the big deal is to be honest, or why now this information has come to light it makes McCartney full of crap.

[The Underdog]

I wonder if McCartney's performance in the 3AW interview and the "flat" tone of it, had anything to do with finding out that Sanderson had been sacked in the hour beforehand. They'd spent a long time at Geelong together and as far as I know were reasonably close. Probably wouldn't have raised his spirits too much.

[Go_Dogs]

I wonder if McCartney's performance in the 3AW interview and the "flat" tone of it, had anything to do with finding out that Sanderson had been sacked in the hour beforehand. They'd spent a long time at Geelong together and as far as I know were reasonably close. Probably wouldn't have raised his spirits too much.

I think G-Mo mentioned this earlier. I agree it's likely it had soured his mood.

[bornadog]

Macca's response to rumours of dissension


WESTERN Bulldogs coach Brendan McCartney has addressed rumours of unrest at Whitten Oval, admitting he was involved with several “pretty direct” end-of-season interviews with players.

On the same night his Adelaide counterpart Brenton Sanderson was shown the door by the Crows, McCartney said the exit interviews he conducted were normal.

After eight wins last season, the Dogs had one less this year, with the season finishing with an upset loss to Greater Western Sydney.

McCartney spoke on Fairfax Radio to talk about the rumours, and denied veteran ruckman Will Minson stormed out of his end-of-season meeting.

"You do hear snippets. I am not one to lean on the back fence and gossip but it still filters back to us," McCartney said.

"Our end-of-year win-loss record was pretty disappointing and it was a messy last game (against Greater Western Sydney) and it wasn't a reflection of us.

"We did normal exit interviews and for some reason the feeling is those exit interviews are a surprise, but they are the culmination of ongoing chats through the year. "Some of the interviews were pretty direct, but not just with individual players.

"We were pretty direct with how we reviewed, how we performed as a club and how we coached and how I coached and how we trained and prepared."

[1eyedog]

Last time I bumped it I spent 200 words explaining it was for conversation as it can be read as a roller coaster of ups and downs of Macca love. It's a very interesting read, but I copped abuse for weeks for bumping it. People get lost in the poor title, but reading the ups and downs of the thread I think is quite interesting. I'm trying to keep positive about a Grand Final and have no time for haters this week.

Just as we assess the players ups and downs game by game and across the season as a whole so we should the coaches. We don't have a weekly bankers and anchors thread for what the coaches did / didn't and should / shouldn't have done on match day but maybe we should. The coach just like everyone else at the club should be scrutinised in this manner IMO as he's getting a monthly pay packet for providing a service to the club itself, the board and members of the club. We are quick to anchor Austin because he constantly fails to keep his feet but what about when Macca moves JJ to FF or fails to tag a Marc Murphy or move a KPP when he should. What about team selections which Macca has a massive say in.

A weekly thread may be useful because we often discuss Macca's game day performance across a number of threads. The discussion could be centralised in a how's Macca tracking thread.

[ledge]

He did admit he was reviewed as well and all seems to be calming now

[DISHLICKERS]

This is just nonsense honestly.
Minson has his best season rucking solo, and yet people complain when he doesn't get help.
The same people would be moaning up a storm if in getting that help Minson still struggled.
McCartney can't win either way, and Minson had a crap year . End of story.

I can see where you are coming from yes, Minno had his best season rucking solo yes BUT also on the back of a full pre season. The minute he didn't have that pre-season he was in trouble with the expectation on him from his AA year so that's when he would have required some management especially first half of the year.

It took until Round 22 for Macca and MC to work out forms a problem and/or you need to work on this Minno go back to the seconds?
And he achieved all that was required of him in one game in the VFL where as Macca put it we thought we would ease the pressure on him and let him run around in the VFL.

[Ozza]

The second ruck situation had me bemused all year. It did Liam Jones, Roughy, Tommy Williams etc no favours and it seemed it did Wil no favour either. Baffling that one.

How did we go, structurally, with Campbell and Minson in the side together?

[Mofra]

This is just nonsense honestly.
Minson has his best season rucking solo, and yet people complain when he doesn't get help.
The same people would be moaning up a storm if in getting that help Minson still struggled.
McCartney can't win either way, and Minson had a crap year . End of story.
They are also the first people to complain we are too slow and have no run whenever we sacrifice a runner for another tall.

[DISHLICKERS]

How did we go, structurally, with Campbell and Minson in the side together?


Towards the end of 2013 it seemed to work well.

In 2014 I wouldn't say it was given much of a chance to see how it went

[DISHLICKERS]

They are also the first people to complain we are too slow and have no run whenever we sacrifice a runner for another tall.

One extra tall wont make us slow maybe the selection of the other 20 odd players will make you slow. Choose an extra tall slows us down what percentage, minimal I would say.

Move the ball quickly by foot/hand and have a game plan and that will contribute more to speed than anything.

[Ozza]

Towards the end of 2013 it seemed to work well.

In 2014 I wouldn't say it was given much of a chance to see how it went

We tried it 6 times in 2014. We won 1 of those games, against St.Kilda. A lost to West Coast (badly), Adelaide (looked structurally poor to the point that Campbell had to be subbed out), as well as against North, Hawthorn and GWS.

In the previous year - we only really looked ok with that set up in the Adelaide game.

[DISHLICKERS]

We tried it 6 times in 2014. We won 1 of those games, against St.Kilda. A lost to West Coast (badly), Adelaide (looked structurally poor to the point that Campbell had to be subbed out), as well as against North, Hawthorn and GWS.

In the previous year - we only really looked ok with that set up in the Adelaide game.

Couple of things our forward line has not had a decent coach to help it function correctly there is no cohesion sometimes players look like they are in an episode of Fawlty Towers, forward line players are dependent greatly to how the ball is coming in etc.

Couple of the games you mention in Hawthorn one Campbell nearly got us back in it in the third, against Adelaide he was causing problems to the Adelaide defenders especially at the start. Then he also had a game with an eye injury.

[G-Mo77]

I think G-Mo mentioned this earlier. I agree it's likely it had soured his mood.

I'm yet to listen to it so I can't take credit. :)

[Bulldog4life]

It also contains some of the most ridiculous posting seen on this web site.

Agree Jeemak. Totally agree.

[SlimPickens]

I dont think anyone is complaining about the poor pre season it is more the "I gave him a rest" in round 22 that is being offered up as crap.

I havent listened to the interview so have no opinion

In the press conference after the game in round 22, Macca was asked why Minson was dropped. His answer was "Form". No mention of a rest, he played against Richmond at punt road so it wasn't a rest at all anyway.

Are people trying to re-write history to convenience an argument or just changing history for the sake of it?

[Murphy'sLore]

'Taking the pressure off' and 'giving him a rest' are not synonymous. Dropping down to the VFL for a week might take the pressure off without actually resting him.

[Ozza]

Couple of things our forward line has not had a decent coach to help it function correctly there is no cohesion sometimes players look like they are in an episode of Fawlty Towers, forward line players are dependent greatly to how the ball is coming in etc.

Couple of the games you mention in Hawthorn one Campbell nearly got us back in it in the third, against Adelaide he was causing problems to the Adelaide defenders especially at the start. Then he also had a game with an eye injury.

I omitted the eye injury game - because Cordy played in that game, rather than Minson.
Although Campbell took a couple of marks against Adelaide, the structure of the team still suffered. It was quite clear at the game, that once we won the ball off the opposition, we lacked movement further up the field (not all Campbell or Minson's fault obviously). This made the decision to sub out Campbell - the most logical one (it had to be either he or Minson...Will may have been the better candidate that day as it turned out anyway).

In terms of the forward line not having a 'decent coach' - I think it is too simplimistic a view to blame Shannon Grant solely for all scoring issues. I don't agree that there is 'no cohesion'. It could certainly be better - not disputing that - but a major contributing factor to us struggling to score, is that players haven't backed themselves to move the ball quickly, and half forwards have been leading conservatively (boundary side) and not giving the player with the ball the 45 degree option, or the hit up target through the middle. We rarely use the middle of the ground, so this not only slows down our attacking play - but it also gives opposition defenders the chance to work back into our 50.

How much better do our forwards look when a Murphy, Griffen or Macrae take the game on and use the middle of the ground?

[DISHLICKERS]

I omitted the eye injury game - because Cordy played in that game, rather than Minson.
Although Campbell took a couple of marks against Adelaide, the structure of the team still suffered. It was quite clear at the game, that once we won the ball off the opposition, we lacked movement further up the field (not all Campbell or Minson's fault obviously). This made the decision to sub out Campbell - the most logical one (it had to be either he or Minson...Will may have been the better candidate that day as it turned out anyway).

In terms of the forward line not having a 'decent coach' - I think it is too simplimistic a view to blame Shannon Grant solely for all scoring issues. I don't agree that there is 'no cohesion'. It could certainly be better - not disputing that - but a major contributing factor to us struggling to score, is that players haven't backed themselves to move the ball quickly, and half forwards have been leading conservatively (boundary side) and not giving the player with the ball the 45 degree option, or the hit up target through the middle. We rarely use the middle of the ground, so this not only slows down our attacking play - but it also gives opposition defenders the chance to work back into our 50.

How much better do our forwards look when a Murphy, Griffen or Macrae take the game on and use the middle of the ground?

Putting the specific issue of Campbell/Minson aside you make some very good points.

I don't solely blame Grant for scoring issues because there are many variables that influence scoring and you are rightly elude to many.

No cohesion was on the strong side granted but there is little cohesion. Not sure if our forwards know their specific roles i.e. when to lead, where to be when, where to run to create space for another player.

[1eyedog]

I omitted the eye injury game - because Cordy played in that game, rather than Minson.
Although Campbell took a couple of marks against Adelaide, the structure of the team still suffered. It was quite clear at the game, that once we won the ball off the opposition, we lacked movement further up the field (not all Campbell or Minson's fault obviously). This made the decision to sub out Campbell - the most logical one (it had to be either he or Minson...Will may have been the better candidate that day as it turned out anyway).

In terms of the forward line not having a 'decent coach' - I think it is too simplimistic a view to blame Shannon Grant solely for all scoring issues. I don't agree that there is 'no cohesion'. It could certainly be better - not disputing that - but a major contributing factor to us struggling to score, is that players haven't backed themselves to move the ball quickly, and half forwards have been leading conservatively (boundary side) and not giving the player with the ball the 45 degree option, or the hit up target through the middle. We rarely use the middle of the ground, so this not only slows down our attacking play - but it also gives opposition defenders the chance to work back into our 50.

How much better do our forwards look when a Murphy, Griffen or Macrae take the game on and use the middle of the ground?

In addition to this, which I agree with, we still simply lack all three critical F50 player types. Crameri is an opportunist who has good attributes but is not a good contested mark of the football neither is he a particularly good lead up forward. He is best suited to playing high half forward and many of his opportunities come from doubling back towards goal or an opportunistic snap. He is a good forward who understands how to hit the scoreboard by creating one on one ground ball contests and he wins these by strength (getting separation) and space (using his 3 step explosiveness). Good attributes but neither contested marking or lead up ones.

For a number of reasons discussed on this forum previously Jones cannot contribute much more than 2-3 contested marks a game and maybe 1-2 goals a game, Campbell the same.

Stringer has been tried as a lead up forward but he's not naturally suited to this either - he plays like Crameri does with a few more tricks. Grant too although he does use his pace to create separation. The only true lead up forward we have is Dickson who has been injured for most of the season.

As for crumbers we have Dahlhaus who has been moved into the midfield and Hunter who is a first year player.

We seriously lack a diverse range of player types in the F50. We don't have gorillas who can consistently take contested marks and we don't currently have crumbers adept and taking opportunities when the ball hits the ground and we don't really have a good lead up forward other than Dickson. We have a worrying amount of the same type of players up forward, a paucity of good KPP, no crumbers and only one true lead up forward and this IMO is why our mids have no confidence moving the ball through the centre of the ground. And...after Morris and Murphy retire the back half looks just as unstable.

IMO this is one reason why we struggle to score, win games and why we'll be struggling to break into the top 8 for the next few years.

[bornadog]

Putting the specific issue of Campbell/Minson aside you make some very good points.

I don't solely blame Grant for scoring issues because there are many variables that influence scoring and you are rightly elude to many.

No cohesion was on the strong side granted but there is little cohesion. Not sure if our forwards know their specific roles i.e. when to lead, where to be when, where to run to create space for another player.

The other issue is the movement of the ball from the backline. The forwards get no chance when the ball is bombed in. The forwards are confused with how the ball is going to come into the forward line. They look up the ground and the backline is switching the ball, chipping around no running and bouncing etc.

We have major problems with skill, ball movement, leading to confusion in the forward line.

[Remi Moses]

I can see where you are coming from yes, Minno had his best season rucking solo yes BUT also on the back of a full pre season. The minute he didn't have that pre-season he was in trouble with the expectation on him from his AA year so that's when he would have required some management especially first half of the year.

It took until Round 22 for Macca and MC to work out forms a problem and/or you need to work on this Minno go back to the seconds?
And he achieved all that was required of him in one game in the VFL where as Macca put it we thought we would ease the pressure on him and let him run around in the VFL.

It seemed odd to drop him for one game, but in saying that the facts are Minson had a woeful season .
Unfortunately our supporters seem to want to blame McCartney for this.
As sedat said the sub rule has killed off the second ruck, and Will is a ruck man only.
My view is that if the senior players don't like what they're hearing McCartney should move them on.
Let's not have an Adelaide situation where the players and Roo run the show.

[mjp]

We don't have a weekly bankers and anchors thread for what the coaches did / didn't and should / shouldn't have done on match day but maybe we should.

Yes - but how do you know what things that happen on match day were done at the behest of the coach?

A match-up might be a temporary thing to enable an interchange...or it might be player initiated with the coach trying to get a message out to change it.

I understand this to a point when you talk about q-time/h-time adjustments (or lack of) but when something happens during a quarter...

As for strategies such as whether or not to tag a player, well, good luck figuring that out! In the example given with Murphy you really do have to pick your poison - you can tag one inside/one outside and this will always come down to a judgement call. We can be as critical as we like of decisions like that but if (to use your example) Murphy runs 'riot' on a day when Gibbs is being tagged and is quiet, well, is that representative of GOOD planning or just a really BAD defensive effort by the mids who have not been assigned to Gibbs (and have a collective responsibility for Murphy).

I am a bit of a 'match day coaching' apologist I guess but I just think if the work is done during the week then match-day looks after itself. If your team doesn't have a recognisable game plan then they are poorly coached. That is it. If they have a consistent style of play but are getting 'beaten' by an individual, well, sometimes that is just the way it goes. For example Franklin almost beat the Dockers by himself two weeks back with those two remarkable goals in the last q...nothing you can do from a playing or coaching perspective to stop that. But how many games are really won/lost because of one person? Opposition players have great games against good sides all the time - but just because Boak has 30 or Gray has 30 / 2 goals doesn't mean Port beat Sydney. Is that bad coaching to 'allow' those things to happen or good coaching to establish/teach a resilient game plan that creates success regardless of what an opposition 'player' does?

[Ozza]

In addition to this, which I agree with, we still simply lack all three critical F50 player types. Crameri is an opportunist who has good attributes but is not a good contested mark of the football neither is he a particularly good lead up forward. He is best suited to playing high half forward and many of his opportunities come from doubling back towards goal or an opportunistic snap. He is a good forward who understands how to hit the scoreboard by creating one on one ground ball contests and he wins these by strength (getting separation) and space (using his 3 step explosiveness). Good attributes but neither contested marking or lead up ones.

For a number of reasons discussed on this forum previously Jones cannot contribute much more than 2-3 contested marks a game and maybe 1-2 goals a game, Campbell the same.

Stringer has been tried as a lead up forward but he's not naturally suited to this either - he plays like Crameri does with a few more tricks. Grant too although he does use his pace to create separation. The only true lead up forward we have is Dickson who has been injured for most of the season.

As for crumbers we have Dahlhaus who has been moved into the midfield and Hunter who is a first year player.

We seriously lack a diverse range of player types in the F50. We don't have gorillas who can consistently take contested marks and we don't currently have crumbers adept and taking opportunities when the ball hits the ground and we don't really have a good lead up forward other than Dickson. We have a worrying amount of the same type of players up forward, a paucity of good KPP, no crumbers and only one true lead up forward and this IMO is why our mids have no confidence moving the ball through the centre of the ground. And...after Morris and Murphy retire the back half looks just as unstable.

IMO this is one reason why we struggle to score, win games and why we'll be struggling to break into the top 8 for the next few years.

Stringer is best suited playing close to goal. His speed and power will make defenders bloody nervous next season. IF we can get the ball into him quickly enough when he still has some space, I think he can kick a really good total of goals next season. Based on his last 7-8 games of 2014 - a 50 Goal season is not out of his reach.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yes I disagree about Stringer. I think he is an absolute natural lead up forward. He leads to the right places and leads at the right times. He's fast off the lead and has good hands (most of the time).

[1eyedog]

Stringer is best suited playing close to goal. His speed and power will make defenders bloody nervous next season. IF we can get the ball into him quickly enough when he still has some space, I think he can kick a really good total of goals next season. Based on his last 7-8 games of 2014 - a 50 Goal season is not out of his reach.


Yes I disagree about Stringer. I think he is an absolute natural lead up forward. He leads to the right places and leads at the right times. He's fast off the lead and has good hands (most of the time).

He looks good leading out from FF because he is such a gifted, dynamic player but his best work this year has been higher up the ground and he has still kicked goals as a high HF. His ability in traffic and his decision making prowess make him so much more dangerous up the ground than what it does as a lead up player form FF. His talents are wasted in the goal square for mine. He's played FF partly to develop at this level as well as to bide time while he builds a tank but also because we simply have no better player to play there. That said, while he progresses I'm certainly not adverse to him playing out of the goal square simply because he kicks goals, but I don't want this to stifle the evolution of him as a complete footballer - which is what I think he'll become. If only there were two of him.

[1eyedog]

Yes - but how do you know what things that happen on match day were done at the behest of the coach?

A match-up might be a temporary thing to enable an interchange...or it might be player initiated with the coach trying to get a message out to change it.

I understand this to a point when you talk about q-time/h-time adjustments (or lack of) but when something happens during a quarter...

As for strategies such as whether or not to tag a player, well, good luck figuring that out! In the example given with Murphy you really do have to pick your poison - you can tag one inside/one outside and this will always come down to a judgement call. We can be as critical as we like of decisions like that but if (to use your example) Murphy runs 'riot' on a day when Gibbs is being tagged and is quiet, well, is that representative of GOOD planning or just a really BAD defensive effort by the mids who have not been assigned to Gibbs (and have a collective responsibility for Murphy).

I am a bit of a 'match day coaching' apologist I guess but I just think if the work is done during the week then match-day looks after itself. If your team doesn't have a recognisable game plan then they are poorly coached. That is it. If they have a consistent style of play but are getting 'beaten' by an individual, well, sometimes that is just the way it goes. For example Franklin almost beat the Dockers by himself two weeks back with those two remarkable goals in the last q...nothing you can do from a playing or coaching perspective to stop that. But how many games are really won/lost because of one person? Opposition players have great games against good sides all the time - but just because Boak has 30 or Gray has 30 / 2 goals doesn't mean Port beat Sydney. Is that bad coaching to 'allow' those things to happen or good coaching to establish/teach a resilient game plan that creates success regardless of what an opposition 'player' does?

Yes clearly it is not going to an accurate assessment for us to make because we are simply not in the coaches box but neither are we privy to player instructions on match day re. the Banker and Anchor thread, which I was using as a template for discussion. A player plays a bad game in our eyes and we anchor him yet Macca says in his post match interview that he followed instructions and did what we asked him to do...

My post was made under the assumption that the coach makes most of the plays on match day and that these would be required (regardless of how much pre-planning leading up to the match is undertaken) and while I'm sure that most of this is determined at the pre-planning stage of the game I often hear comments about ad hoc match day tactics that Eade for example was suppose to be adept at. As for tagging I guess the only way we would be able to establish this is who Picken / Wallis go to. This is course-grained but as close as it would get without being in the match day meetings.

Again, obviously we could not base our assessments on an understanding of the discussion held in the coaches box / the meetings leading up to the match itself and most of our understanding comes from the perceived performance of the coach on match day and this is after all a forum for discussion amongst the uninitiated (generally) so I thought it may have some value. We don't have any understanding what players instructions are on a weekly basis (i.e. we are not in the player meetings) so are we in a position to comment in the banker and anchor thread?

I understand you're point however and we can never really know the things that are said behind closed doors so I see you are well positioned to question the accuracy of what we post re. Macca but the premise of my post derived partly from the assumption that all moves / game plan strategies on a weekly basis go past the senior coach.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Totally agree

[ledge]

Well after reading the article by Minson and the one by Macca it seems they just had frank discussions about their performances this year and it looks like both agree they under performed..
No signs of club dissension in those articles.

[Doc26]

Well after reading the article by Minson and the one by Macca it seems they just had frank discussions about their performances this year and it looks like both agree they under performed..
No signs of club dissension in those articles.

Based on the season's on-field outcome I would be more alarmed if we weren't hearing some tension / friction in the mix at this time of year. It is not something we should be fearful of or overly concerned by so long as it can be managed effectively for the greater good and the problem areas addressed with speed. I did appreciate a comment made by David King on one of last night's TV shows where he mentioned that Brendan would be learning as much if not more about his players, and for that matter himself, through this candid review period as he might on game day.

Not too many seasons ago, it took quite candid internal feedback to be the catalyst to elevate Geelong to the position it is in today, where on-field performance and culture go hand in hand and where they are now the envy of most. Notwithstanding the need to have excellent support people around him, I'm still backing Brendan in to lead this ship.

[mjp]

We don't have any understanding what players instructions are on a weekly basis (i.e. we are not in the player meetings) so are we in a position to comment in the banker and anchor thread?


Yeah...but if a player goes to ground, misses a target, refuses to present etc the 'act' can be attributed to them. It is not like a quarterback throwing an interception because a receiver ran the wrong route which only those aware of the play call would know...I am not really a fan of the bankers/anchors thing but I do think if you are at the game and you see a player hit/miss at a critical moment then you are in a great spot to comment.

I remain pretty optimistic moving forward because we have some individuals who are both young AND have shown an ability to play effective AFL footy...but 2015 is really put up or shut up time in terms of 'teaching' the gameplan. It will be year 4 and it is time to push back up the ladder. Perceptions of whether the coach is good or otherwise on match day are sort of irrelevant to me at this stage - 2015 results are the only thing I am interested in (and I should have cut and pasted those last 10 words from my membership survey).

[GVGjr]

I remain pretty optimistic moving forward because we have some individuals who are both young AND have shown an ability to play effective AFL footy...but 2015 is really put up or shut up time in terms of 'teaching' the gameplan. It will be year 4 and it is time to push back up the ladder. Perceptions of whether the coach is good or otherwise on match day are sort of irrelevant to me at this stage - 2015 results are the only thing I am interested in (and I should have cut and pasted those last 10 words from my membership survey).

Fully agree. We can't have the whole "we will teach them the right way to play" comments week after week next year.
Comments I have read that indicate we aren't good on match day are in the main pure speculation

We need to see improvement next year given the investment that has been made to the footy department. The VFL side alone should have fast tracked a few players.

[Ghost Dog]

That's one positive to take out of things. VFL side is firing. Or is it more the fact we have so many AFL listed players?

[1eyedog]

[QUOTE]

I remain pretty optimistic moving forward because we have some individuals who are both young AND have shown an ability to play effective AFL footy...but 2015 is really put up or shut up time in terms of 'teaching' the gameplan. It will be year 4 and it is time to push back up the ladder. Perceptions of whether the coach is good or otherwise on match day are sort of irrelevant to me at this stage - 2015 results are the only thing I am interested in (and I should have cut and pasted those last 10 words from my membership survey).


I agree with all this too - good call.

[Remi Moses]

Think so as well.

[kruder]

That's one positive to take out of things. VFL side is firing. Or is it more the fact we have so many AFL listed players?

I've been banging on about this. Its AFL listed players who are VFL standard is the real reason our seconds are going well....

The Club calls it depth but in regards to our VFL team its list cloggers for the majority...

Half glass full though and I don't think we have ever had as much A grade junior talent on our list.... Just watch Stringer next year, the most underrated young player in the comp IMO. If he can continue to work hard he will make your forget about Jones,Grant,and co.

[Remi Moses]

I've been banging on about this. Its AFL listed players who are VFL standard is the real reason our seconds are going well....

The Club calls it depth but in regards to our VFL team its list cloggers for the majority...

Half glass full though and I don't think we have ever had as much A grade junior talent on our list.... Just watch Stringer next year, the most underrated young player in the comp IMO. If he can continue to work hard he will make your forget about Jones,Grant,and co.

Little bit harsh on a few, but agree there's a fair few good second tier players.

[EasternWest]

I've been banging on about this. Its AFL listed players who are VFL standard is the real reason our seconds are going well....

The Club calls it depth but in regards to our VFL team its list cloggers for the majority...

Half glass full though and I don't think we have ever had as much A grade junior talent on our list.... Just watch Stringer next year, the most underrated young player in the comp IMO. If he can continue to work hard he will make your forget about Jones,Grant,and co.

I'm with you on this. I have extremely high hopes for Jake.

[kruder]

Little bit harsh on a few, but agree there's a fair few good second tier players.

I still have hopes for a few in particular JJ. I don't think it can be underestimated what the disgracefull bump from Cameron(still can't believe he wasn't outed for it) did to his confidence. Really enjoyed him late in the year and think its onwards and upwards for him.

[F'scary]

I still have hopes for a few in particular JJ. I don't think it can be underestimated what the disgracefull bump from Cameron(still can't believe he wasn't outed for it) did to his confidence. Really enjoyed him late in the year and think its onwards and upwards for him.

JJ just has that rare burst of speed, which he can execute even when turning in a tight arc. His speed burst allows him to have time to steady while kicking.

[mighty_west]

I for one am not in the slightest bit concerned with what is reported to be going on behind close doors, all clubs need a bit of a shake up from time to time and players need a Rocket as well and some home truths, the strong will survive, and the rest..........