Shaun Higgins - Liam Jones - Easton Wood - Will they, or won't they?

[Cyberdoggie]

This is strange for me:

"It's fair to say that Liam's been a bit frustrated this year with the lack of opportunities in the last couple of months."

Eight to ten weeks of him not getting his own way and he wants out? I'd guess the screws have been turned on him and he doesn't like it, or he doesn't like the way he's been managed by the coaching group.

He's had a pretty good run at the Bulldogs in terms of opportunity versus output. The fact he can't see that makes me think he either lacks intelligence and or needs to grow up, or there's a personality conflict that's not being talked about.


We picked him up as a 17 year old, supported him through his last year of school as a priority in front of football.
Gave him ample opportunities as the main key forward of the club and he has failed to deliver on a consistent basis.
So after we finally try a little tough love with him he finds it all too hard and wants out to be the second or third option at Carlton.

Doesn't sound like someone we need to steer this club to our next premiership does it.


I think he will have a rude awakening under Malthouse if he thought Macca was a bit mean to him.

[chef]

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

Because hes a list cloggers, not good enough at AFL level and will get in the way of development at VFL level.

Who are the 5?

[bornadog]

BAD - genuine question. Who are those five?

Prudden, Fuller, Pearce, arguably Boyd and Tutt, although Tutt has shown something and Boyd well I think past his best and I would rather give his spot to another mid.

[Greystache]

It was stupid not to give him another chance after two bad games, particularly with his contract situation

He was playing well enough in the VFL to get another chance, but the club decided on tough love

Lets hope we get a good outcome - a third round pick is almost of no value to us, unless we delist a few more, given it would be our 5th pick overall

I see the tough love situation as a filtering process myself. He's stagnated in his development and looks a borderline possibility to make a fist of an AFL career, so probably saw the opportunity to test whether he really has the desire to make it, or whether he's just going to keep taking the easy option. If he takes the challenge the right way then it's worth putting a couple more years into him, if he sulks and wants to go somewhere where he thinks he'll get it easier then we can save ourselves wasting another couple of years on a player without the necessary tools.

At 23 and after 6 years the time was right to push the issue.

[DISHLICKERS]

So Liam's manager has come out and said the following;

"It's fair to say that Liam's been a bit frustrated this year with the lack of opportunities in the last couple of months. At the end of the day, like most guys, he just wants to play senior AFL football."

After his very good performance in Round 13 against Collingwood the following 2 matches looked like this.

Round 14 against Port - 9 touches 2 marks and 1 behind. Played the full game.

Round 15 against Melbourne - 0 touches in the first half, before being subbed off in the third quarter with 1 handball next to his name.

That's all well and good he wants to play senior football, but no team in the competition will put up with 2 terrible performances in a row.

And you conveniently ignored the part where his manager states he has been the sole forward at times.

I am sure there are numerous players and coaches who have had a bad fortnight of either playing/coaching.

[DISHLICKERS]

We picked him up as a 17 year old, supported him through his last year of school as a priority in front of football.
Gave him ample opportunities as the main key forward of the club and he has failed to deliver on a consistent basis.
So after we finally try a little tough love with him he finds it all too hard and wants out to be the second or third option at Carlton.

Doesn't sound like someone we need to steer this club to our next premiership does it.

I think he will have a rude awakening under Malthouse if he thought Macca was a bit mean to him.

What it tell me is he is not scared of hard work as he knows who coaches Carlton and he knows what will be required.

[bornadog]

What it tell me is he is not scared of hard work as he knows who coaches Carlton and he knows what will be required.

When he was dropped back to the VFL, I thought he worked really hard and there was a couple of weeks where he kicked 6 goals and 5 as I recall and was not promoted. He was also the best forward in the finals and was seemingly out to prove something.

In the end to me proves the club doesn't know how to manage him as he wants out and not the other way.

[Greystache]

And you conveniently ignored the part where his manager states he has been the sole forward at times.

I am sure there are numerous players and coaches who have had a bad fortnight of either playing/coaching.

And you're conveniently ignoring that he had a lot more than a bad fortnight. He had single figure disposals in 4 of his 10 games (including 3 of his last 4) and went goalless in 5 of them.

[Doc26]

Since Hall's departure we have done little to provide key position support around Liam to assist in his development.
This is unlike Hawkins at Geelong who did have both Mooney and Pods to give him some relief and guidance as he was developing (not to mention having Selwood, StevieJ, Chapman and Bartel alongside them in the forward half).
I'm disappointed that our investment in him hasn't worked out and disappointed that he will be moving on from us from two fronts. Firstly, that Liam wasn't strong enough (in mind) and patient enough to back himself in with us and secondly, that we haven't given him the on-field key position support that he obviously required in his development years.

[Sedat]

I'm a Jones fan but does anybody really think that he is going to be the difference between winning a flag and not? Tom Hawkins was considered a very slow starter but he was firing on all cylinders by 2011, his 5th year in the system. Jones has been in the system for 6 years now and is still playing large chunks at VFL level. He would need to reverse a large body of underwhelming work to change the course of his footballing career from now on.

If we are offered a 2nd rounder for Jones, we should take it - anything less and we should either convince Jones to stay on for another 2 years or let him go into the PSD. There is not much point taking a 3rd rounder for him when this will likely be used for a rookie upgrade.

[Maddog37]

If we play against Liam, do people think that Mark Austin could shut him down?

[DISHLICKERS]

And you're conveniently ignoring that he had a lot more than a bad fortnight. He had single figure disposals in 4 of his 10 games (including 3 of his last 4) and went goalless in 5 of them.

I was responding to the statement that no club would put up with 2 bad weeks.

I admit he has had some shockers (who doesn't, more than others maybe yes but I can tell you the forwards had little or no direction this year) but when he went back to the VFL his form warranted another shot at senior level at a minimum.

He has had his form problems but to say it is nearly all his doing is harsh.

[LostDoggy]

If we play against Liam, do people think that Mark Austin could shut him down?

Footscray vs Northern Blues?

[bornadog]

CONFIRMED
Shaun Higgins has told the Western Bulldogs he will be exercising his right as a free agent, and will join Carlton's Jarrad Waite at North Melbourne next year.
Source: ABC

[Templeton31]

CONFIRMED
Shaun Higgins has told the Western Bulldogs he will be exercising his right as a free agent, and will join Carlton's Jarrad Waite at North Melbourne next year.
Source: ABC

disappointing. 2 first round draft picks leaving within a week (Higgins & Howard). And a 2nd rounder (Jones).

[chef]

Thanks for ypur contribution at the Doggies Shaun, but its probably the right move for everyone involved. Looks like Dalrymple going to have a few early picks to play with.

[whythelongface]

CONFIRMED
Shaun Higgins has told the Western Bulldogs he will be exercising his right as a free agent, and will join Carlton's Jarrad Waite at North Melbourne next year.
Source: ABC

Interesting times for our club. Good luck to Shaun and thanks for his services but looking forward to the player we pick from the draft compo pick that we receive for him.

[Mantis]

If we play against Liam, do people think that Mark Austin could shut him down?

No.. And one would hope that Austin won't be donning the R,W&B again.

[kruder]

disappointing. 2 first round draft picks leaving within a week (Higgins & Howard). And a 2nd rounder (Jones).

Im happy to be honest. Three list cloggers gone with Grant and Cordy next....

[always right]

Jones cites lack of opportunities at the dogs. This bloke needs to look in the mirror and ask why he was languishing in the VFL for a club crying out for a KPF. I wanted him to stay but perhaps we are in fact better off without someone so mentally weak that they don't want to fight for a senior position.

Looking forward to Morris towelling him up next year....if he gets a game for the blues.

[bornadog]

Justin Reid from Elite Sports Pro, on Trade Radio confirms, no way Jones will stay with Bulldogs. He has made his mind up and that is it. He has also made his mind up he will only play with Carlton - so deal needs to be worked out.

Also confirmed Minson happy at the dogs.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Im happy to be honest. Three list cloggers gone with Grant and Cordy next....

I agree - although am happy to persist with Cordy a bit longer. I've always thought Higgins and Jones weren't up to it mentally. Howard is just plain crap and not up to it. Grant same boat as Jones and Higgins.

The remaining ones that need to go at some stage are Tutt and Pearce. A few others but they will need a bit more time to really make a judgement. (Fuller, Dickson)

[lemmon]

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

I don't understand how you continually frame it as 'getting rid of'? Jones is the one who wants out, all talk out of the club is that we hope to keep him and see him as a required player, if his heart is set on a new opportunity there is little we can do

[mighty_west]

Hate to lose Jones but he really is taking the easy way out, Stringer was also dropped, then played out of his comfort zone down back for a good 5-6 weeks yet some supporters were taking pot shots at Macca, yet look how Stringers season ended up.

I believe supporters blaming Macca or the club simply have an agenda in just simply want to take pot shots, or aren't too fussed with players not necessarily demanding a place in the senior side.

To play for the Mighty Bulldogs, is a privilege not a right!

[1eyedog]

Since Hall's departure we have done little to provide key position support around Liam to assist in his development.
This is unlike Hawkins at Geelong who did have both Mooney and Pods to give him some relief and guidance as he was developing (not to mention having Selwood, StevieJ, Chapman and Bartel alongside them in the forward half).
I'm disappointed that our investment in him hasn't worked out and disappointed that he will be moving on from us from two fronts. Firstly, that Liam wasn't strong enough (in mind) and patient enough to back himself in with us and secondly, that we haven't given him the on-field key position support that he obviously required in his development years.

Riewoldt and Richardson overlapped for 18 months and as soon as Richo retired Jack started killing them. Jack kicked on as a lone hand but Jones simply couldn't or wouldn't.

[mighty_west]

I don't understand how you continually frame it as 'getting rid of'? Jones is the one who wants out, all talk out of the club is that we hope to keep him and see him as a required player, if his heart is set on a new opportunity there is little we can do

Alot of people think that for some unknown reason, you only have to read social media.

[F'scary]

I agree - although am happy to persist with Cordy a bit longer. I've always thought Higgins and Jones weren't up to it mentally. Howard is just plain crap and not up to it. Grant same boat as Jones and Higgins.

The remaining ones that need to go at some stage are Tutt and Pearce. A few others but they will need a bit more time to really make a judgement. (Fuller, Dickson)

I find Tutt the odd one out on your list and rate him ahead of Dickson - both will be playing for their careers in 2015. Agree on Grant. Pearce - sorry but delist. Fuller - delist and rookie list seems to be the suggestion with him.

[jeemak]

Justin Reid from Elite Sports Pro, on Trade Radio confirms, no way Jones will stay with Bulldogs. He has made his mind up and that is it. He has also made his mind up he will only play with Carlton - so deal needs to be worked out.

Also confirmed Minson happy at the dogs.

Well if a suitable deal can't be done he goes to the preseason draft. He could get to Carlton, perhaps.

Are we able to redraft him? It would be an interesting exercise in spite if we did.

[Maddog37]

Blues swapping one frustrating forward in Waite for another in Jones. They will be driven mad.

[BulldogBelle]

Jones has really painted himself into a corner by saying he definitely wants out and only to Carton. He's not doing Carlton any favours at the negotiating table. Balls in our court now. Swap picks 42 for 26? That would give us picks 5. 25 and 26.

[westdog54]

Well if a suitable deal can't be done he goes to the preseason draft. He could get to Carlton, perhaps.

Are we able to redraft him? It would be an interesting exercise in spite if we did.

We technically could. He'd retain his spot on our list until right before the pre-season draft.

You're right though. It would be spiteful in the extreme and I can't see the club doing it.

Would StKilda be interested?

[jeemak]

Jones has really painted himself into a corner by saying he definitely wants out and only to Carton. He's not doing Carlton any favours at the negotiating table. Balls in our court now. Swap picks 42 for 26? That would give us picks 5. 25 and 26.

Plus a likely pick after our second rounder for Higgins.

[lemmon]

We technically could. He'd retain his spot on our list until right before the pre-season draft.

You're right though. It would be spiteful in the extreme and I can't see the club doing it.

Would StKilda be interested?
That's key in my mind, if I were JMac I'd be on the phone to the list managers at Brisbane and St Kilda politely requesting they do us a solid and make some noises about selecting Jones in the pre-season draft if free and available. No reason we shouldn't be upping his value and extracting something we are actually going to use.

[kruder]

I agree - although am happy to persist with Cordy a bit longer. I've always thought Higgins and Jones weren't up to it mentally. Howard is just plain crap and not up to it. Grant same boat as Jones and Higgins.

The remaining ones that need to go at some stage are Tutt and Pearce. A few others but they will need a bit more time to really make a judgement. (Fuller, Dickson)

Cordy may come good by his late 20's just not enough upside for mine. 8-10 of development time and 3-4 serviceable years is best case scenario hence prefer to go buy a raced colt like a 22 year old like campbell and use my first rounders on natural footballers.

[Sedat]

I find Tutt the odd one out on your list and rate him ahead of Dickson - both will be playing for their careers in 2015.
Not sure why the almost universal lack of regard for Dickson on woof. He just turned 27 so has a good 4 years left at his peak and he has proven that, when injury-free, he can play the game very effectively at this level. He has shown more consistency in his career to date than Jones and Grant.

An injury-free Dickson is an upgrade on Gia IMO.

[Mofra]

Not sure why the almost universal lack of regard for Dickson on woof. He just turned 27 so has a good 4 years left at his peak and he has proven that, when injury-free, he can play the game very effectively at this level. He has shown more consistency in his career to date than Jones and Grant.

An injury-free Dickson is an upgrade on Gia IMO.
This. x1000 this.

Dickson is AFL quality; Tutt is a maybe, Grant is a sometimes and Jones is a possibly.

[LostDoggy]

We technically could. He'd retain his spot on our list until right before the pre-season draft.

You're right though. It would be spiteful in the extreme and I can't see the club doing it.

Would StKilda be interested?

Why is the talk only about St Kilda? If the blues don't want to trade us their second round pick, you would assume they don't want to use that same pick to get him in the draft. That would mean they plan to use their 3rd round pick which would give every other club their late second rounder for Jones if they want him.

[jeemak]

Not sure why the almost universal lack of regard for Dickson on woof. He just turned 27 so has a good 4 years left at his peak and he has proven that, when injury-free, he can play the game very effectively at this level. He has shown more consistency in his career to date than Jones and Grant.

An injury-free Dickson is an upgrade on Gia IMO.

It's baffling.

Not sure about an upgrade on Gia though, as I don't think he has the ability to bring others into the game as well as Gia did and isn't as creative with the footy up the field.

[Throughandthrough]

Higgins officially wants to go. Last one out lock the door and put the key under the mat.

[Doc26]

Not sure why the almost universal lack of regard for Dickson on woof. He just turned 27 so has a good 4 years left at his peak and he has proven that, when injury-free, he can play the game very effectively at this level. He has shown more consistency in his career to date than Jones and Grant.

An injury-free Dickson is an upgrade on Gia IMO.

Not comparing Jones or Grant to Tory, but I believe he generally gets solid support from a number of the Woof regulars, and whilst not vocal about it, and now opening myself up to a bit of Woof vitriol, I'm not one who sees the value in him that others might. Yes, the positives are that he is opportunistic at goal with good kicking ability, which we need, although the negatives are that he is lacking severely in endurance and offers little speed for a small forward, and from my perspective often hurts us going the other way. When the pace is off in a game he can look damaging, it's just when the heat is on in a game I just don't see him as holding his own as others might.

[Sedat]

It's baffling.

Not sure about an upgrade on Gia though, as I don't think he has the ability to bring others into the game as well as Gia did and isn't as creative with the footy up the field.
Sorry Jeemak, I meant an upgrade on recent Gia, not Gia in his prime. I definitely think he can get to that type of player as his tank continues to get bigger and he becomes 100% used to the fitness required at this level. His workrate will ultimately dictate whether or not he has a 4 year ok career or an 8 year very good career at this level - the talent is there.

[Remi Moses]

That says it all for me.

"He's had his struggles at the Bulldogs. He's been that lone forward at times.

"If he gets to a club where there's the opportunity to play as that second tall forward, I think you could see his career blossom."

He wants a club with more snow to ski down. Pretty much sums up his career and why he won't make it.

You know what I can't get over is the fact that he wants to be the second tall forward at his height.

[Bulldog4life]

We technically could. He'd retain his spot on our list until right before the pre-season draft.

You're right though. It would be spiteful in the extreme and I can't see the club doing it.

Would StKilda be interested?

Possibly. Dad played for the Saints. I would think they might be happy to pick him up in the preseason draft for nothing.

[1eyedog]

I don't get the Dickson love. Any small lead up forward who has played more games than goals kicked is just an ok player. It's like the all-rounder claim in cricket - if your batting average isn't above your bowling average your a bowler.

He doesn't lay tackles and if he wasn't a straight kick (32.7 across 34 games) he'd struggle to play in most sides. At 27 there is not a lot of improvement there either.

[G-Mo77]

Justin Reid from Elite Sports Pro, on Trade Radio confirms, no way Jones will stay with Bulldogs. He has made his mind up and that is it. He has also made his mind up he will only play with Carlton - so deal needs to be worked out.


Which is a bitch because now we're rail roaded. We'll be lucky to get a 3rd round pick. Garlett? Could we get him? Would we be interested?

[Greystache]

I don't get the Dickson love. Any small lead up forward who has played more games than goals kicked is just an ok player. It's like the all-rounder claim in cricket - if your batting average isn't above your bowling average your a bowler.

He doesn't lay tackles and if he wasn't a straight kick (32.7 across 34 games) he'd struggle to play in most sides. At 27 there is not a lot of improvement there either.

He may be 27 (on Saturday BTW) but he's only played 34 games, and has had an interrupted run at it. I don't know how anyone can say a player won't get any better after only 3 years in the system.

As for tackles I don't understand why you would say he doesn't lay tackles, he averages 3.3 per game, 0.8 less than Luke Dahlhaus, and 0.8 more per game than everyone's favourite manic defender Jarrad Grant.

Personally I'd never look at a player with high goal accuracy and call that a negative.

[bornadog]

Which is a bitch because now we're rail roaded. We'll be lucky to get a 3rd round pick. Garlett? Could we get him? Would we be interested?

Yes, better if a few clubs are interested and bidding for his services.

[bornadog]

Wallace says lucky to get a third rounder for Higgins.

[LostDoggy]

He's already stayed playing for the blue baggers, they would have told him exactly how to approach us to improve their trade position.

As Tom Jones would say its not unusual, we did the same thing with Crameri.

[Eastdog]

What do you think will get more Jones?

[Maddog37]

Wallace says lucky to get a third rounder for Higgins.

Terry is clueless

[bornadog]

Terry is clueless

Lets see what happens, but maybe we Bulldog supporters overate him.

[LostDoggy]

Wallace says lucky to get a third rounder for Higgins.

The fact there is 2 clubs heavily after Shaun, that will hopefully make a club put an extra year on the deal.

performance to date aspect of the compensation may hurt.

Second round would be a great result.

[lemmon]

Lets see what happens, but maybe we Bulldog supporters overate him.
Considering compensation is meant to be heavily weighted towards the contract on offer I don't subscribe to his view. Terry was talking about his 'body of work' but if that's the case surely Frawley's poor recent form would also come under consideration? If the money being talked about is correct we should land a second round pick.

[Greystache]

Which is a bitch because now we're rail roaded. We'll be lucky to get a 3rd round pick. Garlett? Could we get him? Would we be interested?

Not really. If we're not going to get what we want and he's declared he won't play for us, then we say we'll dump him and he can run the gauntlet in the PSD and perhaps end up and St Kilda or GWS. Neither he nor Carlton will want this, and he's not going to sit out a season because he can't get to his club of choice, and everyone knows it.

His handling of this has been pretty immature, which is consistent with his AFL career to date. His manager doesn't seem like much of a performer either.

[mighty_west]

Lets see what happens, but maybe we Bulldog supporters overate him.

The fact that he's slow, rarely chases, doesn't find his own football and injuries have really dented his football image, even though he has elite kicking skills, I'd be over the moon if we got a second round selection for him.

[LostDoggy]

If Colin Sylvia was worthy of a second round selection, so is Higgins!

[Remi Moses]

Higgins is worth a second rounder.
I think a pick in the 20's is fair enough, and according to their F/A guidelines that's what we'll get.
If Higgins is a third rounder how is Frawley a pick 3?

[KT31]

Not really. If we're not going to get what we want and he's declared he won't play for us, then we say we'll dump him and he can run the gauntlet in the PSD and perhaps end up and St Kilda or GWS. Neither he nor Carlton will want this, and he's not going to sit out a season because he can't get to his club of choice, and everyone knows it.

His handling of this has been pretty immature, which is consistent with his AFL career to date. His manager doesn't seem like much of a performer either.

Must agree, I really am not to concerned with either Jones or Higgins leaving.
I would be alot more concerned if it was any of the younger brigade.
Not saying it is the reason behind these two but If rumours keep persisting of disenchantment at the club, we must seriously address the issues before one of the kid's puts his hand up to leave.

[bornadog]

I bet Redpath now get an upgrade.

[mighty_west]

Higgins is worth a second rounder.
I think a pick in the 20's is fair enough, and according to their F/A guidelines that's what we'll get.
If Higgins is a third rounder how is Frawley a pick 3?

Frawley is not worth a pick 3, apart from the Dees the footy world knows that but, that said it's the system in place for the price a team is prepared to pay, I mean hey, how on earth is Frawley worth more (pick 3) than Buddy Franklin (pick in the high teens) ?

It's a flawed system but I guess one to cater for lower sides losing their top liners chasing success elsewhere.

[LostDoggy]

If Higgins is a third rounder how is Frawley a pick 3?

Noone is saying Frawley is worth pick 3 other than Roos and the Demons.

People just expect the AFL to give them the pick 3 after rejecting their prospal for a prioirty pick.

[1eyedog]

He may be 27 (on Saturday BTW) but he's only played 34 games, and has had an interrupted run at it. I don't know how anyone can say a player won't get any better after only 3 years in the system.

As for tackles I don't understand why you would say he doesn't lay tackles, he averages 3.3 per game, 0.8 less than Luke Dahlhaus, and 0.8 more per game than everyone's favourite manic defender Jarrad Grant.

Personally I'd never look at a player with high goal accuracy and call that a negative.

Dahlhaus' real strengths are his attacking ones and not necessarily his tackling plus he has a number of tricks Dickson simply doesn't and as for Grant well he is on the cusp of a trade and really has been for a while. Grant simply does not have a defensive organ in his body. It's really no wonder Dickson's tackle count is above these two, it has to be because he simply doesn't bring the same game to the table that Dahl does and Grant can.

Dickson is tracking for a Jones output in the next 2 years in terms of goals / games and I wasn't potting his kicking accuracy, it's great for the club and for him that he can kick straight because if he couldn't he might be in some strife if you look at the raw stats.

[Ozza]

I don't get the Dickson love. Any small lead up forward who has played more games than goals kicked is just an ok player. It's like the all-rounder claim in cricket - if your batting average isn't above your bowling average your a bowler.

He doesn't lay tackles and if he wasn't a straight kick (32.7 across 34 games) he'd struggle to play in most sides. At 27 there is not a lot of improvement there either.

Dickson has actually kicked 48.20 in his 34 games. Which is a fraction under 1.5 goals per game. I think we'd all be happy if a small forward could kick 33 goals this year - and have Crameri and Stringer kick 70-80 between them also.

Just needs a decent run injury-wise, and with a full pre-season of fitness I think he could be more than handy.

[Topdog]

That's all well and good he wants to play senior football, but no team in the competition will put up with 2 terrible performances in a row.

And so it is OK to leave him out for 8 games because of 2 bad performances. He was topping our goalkicking regularly in the 2s and never got recalled.

[Eastdog]

Jones for me was great at VFL but the problem was that he couldn't consistently replicate it at AFL level. He was a very frustrating player to watch but when he got it going he was great to watch (the Collingwood game is a great example). Who do you us getting for Jones?

[Greystache]

Dahlhaus' real strengths are his attacking ones and not necessarily his tackling plus he has a number of tricks Dickson simply doesn't and as for Grant well he is on the cusp of a trade and really has been for a while. Grant simply does not have a defensive organ in his body. It's really no wonder Dickson's tackle count is above these two, it has to be because he simply doesn't bring the same game to the table that Dahl does and Grant can.

Dahlhaus has the highest tackle per game count of all regular forwards on our list, that's why I highlighted him. Dickson is second.

[1eyedog]

Dickson has actually kicked 48.20 in his 34 games. Which is a fraction under 1.5 goals per game. I think we'd all be happy if a small forward could kick 33 goals this year - and have Crameri and Stringer kick 70-80 between them also.

Just needs a decent run injury-wise, and with a full pre-season of fitness I think he could be more than handy.

Apologies I was obviously looking at the wrong numbers, I think!

[bornadog]

Dickson has actually kicked 48.20 in his 34 games. Which is a fraction under 1.5 goals per game. I think we'd all be happy if a small forward could kick 33 goals this year - and have Crameri and Stringer kick 70-80 between them also.

Just needs a decent run injury-wise, and with a full pre-season of fitness I think he could be more than handy.

Make or break next year for him.

[bornadog]

You really have to ask yourself, why are players wanting out. What is the real story behind Jones and Higgins wanting out? Why has Wood only signed for a year? Maybe Barrett is right.

[Eastdog]

You really have to ask yourself, why are players wanting out. What is the real story behind Jones and Higgins wanting out? Why has Wood only signed for a year? Maybe Barrett is right.

We don't really know what is going on in the inner circle do we. Would be interesting to be a fly on the wall.

[Dry Rot]

You really have to ask yourself, why are players wanting out. What is the real story behind Jones and Higgins wanting out? Why has Wood only signed for a year? Maybe Barrett is right.

What's Barrett saying?

[chef]

You really have to ask yourself, why are players wanting out. What is the real story behind Jones and Higgins wanting out? Why has Wood only signed for a year? Maybe Barrett is right.

With the calibre of player wanting out and the reasons why I'm not sure it's too much of a worry.

Maybe we are happy to push these two guys out for the squad space and draft picks we'll receive.

Maybe they are not Macca style players and don't fit the team he's trying to build.

[chef]

What's Barrett saying?

That theres great unrest at the Dogs between the senior players and the coach, yet Scott Gullan who apparently is in the know suggests it's bullshit.

[Dry Rot]

That theres great unrest at the Dogs between the senior players and the coach, yet Scott Gullan who apparently is in the know suggests it's bullshit.

Thanks.

[lemmon]

Mark Stevens is one I usually check on for Dogs stuff and he has been fairly quiet on it as well.

[Bulldog Joe]

And so it is OK to leave him out for 8 games because of 2 bad performances. He was topping our goalkicking regularly in the 2s and never got recalled.

Well if he did not address the reasons he was dropped he would not deserve a recall regardless of the goalkicking.

Even his performance in the VFL Grand Final was not one to be excited about from an AFL perspective. He only had 4 touches to 3/4 time and was looking for the mark over the top rather than present a leading option.

His overall workrate has never been there in any consistent manner.

[Hotdog60]

When Jones was dropped Macca said we'll give someone else ago. Enter Redpath who had by reports been playing well at that time.

So Redpath was given a shot and a descent go till the end of the season.

Questions that need to be asked how was the performance of Jones 6 weeks prior to being dropped and Redpath 6 weeks after.

We may have been sizing up on who to persevere with and who to chop. Jones has made that decision for us and I'll expect Jack to get a upgrade told to put in a hard pre season and take his chances.

[Remi Moses]

Listened to Barrett and plough this afternoon.
Barrett stated that a senior player spoke to Gordon and Garlo about McCartney.
Of course Barrett wouldn't name names , and Wallace made a salient point that perhaps a few senior players realise that the end is nigh and are frustrated that the young players get the coaches attention .

[G-Mo77]

Not really. If we're not going to get what we want and he's declared he won't play for us, then we say we'll dump him and he can run the gauntlet in the PSD and perhaps end up and St Kilda or GWS. Neither he nor Carlton will want this, and he's not going to sit out a season because he can't get to his club of choice, and everyone knows it.

His handling of this has been pretty immature, which is consistent with his AFL career to date. His manager doesn't seem like much of a performer either.

Sorry Grey completely disagree. They don't lose anything by not getting him in trade week, we do. They'll hold and hold and we'll have to cave in the end or get nothing at all. Player chooses one club we have to deal with them and that club has hand, if he chose Carlton and another we could then go and get the highest bidder.

I've said from the start I don't blame Jones for wanting to leave.

[Hotdog60]

Listened to Barrett and plough this afternoon.
Barrett stated that a senior player spoke to Gordon and Garlo about McCartney.
Of course Barrett wouldn't name names , and Wallace made a salient point that perhaps a few senior players realise that the end is nigh and are frustrated that the young players get the coaches attention .

Can't teach an old Dog new tricks.:p

[azabob]

Jones for me was great at VFL but the problem was that he couldn't consistently replicate it at AFL level. He was a very frustrating player to watch but when he got it going he was great to watch (the Collingwood game is a great example). Who do you us getting for Jones?

Not sure ED. I think we will get a third round pick for Jones, not a player.

Poster will start throwing up more scenarios soon.

Currently woof is going through the stages of grieving.

Some posters have moved on from shock, anger, denial and have moved right through to acceptance.

Others are still at the anger stage.

The bargaining stage has been skipped, because in player trades that happens last.

More potential trades will start being thrown around very soon.

[GVGjr]

Frawley is not worth a pick 3, apart from the Dees the footy world knows that but, that said it's the system in place for the price a team is prepared to pay, I mean hey, how on earth is Frawley worth more (pick 3) than Buddy Franklin (pick in the high teens) ?

It's a flawed system but I guess one to cater for lower sides losing their top liners chasing success elsewhere.

I believe the Dees will receive a mid round compensation. Somewhere around pick 10.

[F'scary]

Not sure why the almost universal lack of regard for Dickson on woof. He just turned 27 so has a good 4 years left at his peak and he has proven that, when injury-free, he can play the game very effectively at this level. He has shown more consistency in his career to date than Jones and Grant.

An injury-free Dickson is an upgrade on Gia IMO.

I don't not rate Tory just think Tutt has a few attributes that lend themselves to midfield rotations that would keep him ahead of Tory in the pecking order after this season but only just. On the other hand, Tory is the more dangerous deep small forward. Both players, as smaller forwards high or deep, face a lot of competition for a spot in the 22. A bad season in 2015 would probably be the end.

[ledge]

Well Tutt has walked out now

[LostDoggy]

I'm getting happier by the day with what's happening. Tutt, Higgins and Jones have all been in the system for 5-6+ years. They've all underperformed. Build it and they will come Maccas inc and PG.

[Greystache]

The talk of Tutt knocking back a contact from us is just his manager trying to talk up his potential currency right? Surely we were going to delist him?

[KT31]

Well Tutt has walked out now

I would suggest he was only not delisted last week to hopefully pick up a trade.

[BulldogBelle]

I would suggest he was only not delisted last week to hopefully pick up a trade.

l think you are spot on with this one.
l was thinking we would use him is some trade deal.

[Sedat]

If Jones, Tutt and Higgins are the extent of our senior player exodus, I'd suggest that is not a bad result at all.

[F'scary]

I don't not rate Tory just think Tutt has a few attributes that lend themselves to midfield rotations that would keep him ahead of Tory in the pecking order after this season but only just. On the other hand, Tory is the more dangerous deep small forward. Both players, as smaller forwards high or deep, face a lot of competition for a spot in the 22. A bad season in 2015 would probably be the end.


Well Tutt has walked out now

Oops, missed by that much. I hope you don't think I was out of line with that crack about him playing for us in 2015!

[LostDoggy]

Hopefully Tutt and Jones is enough to net us Carlton's second round pick.

[Go_Dogs]

Maybe Port Adelaide will remember what King Tutt did on debut, and think he can be the next Matt White.

I don't mind Tutty as I think he has some solid attributes, but he has failed to develop the other aspects of his game to a sufficient level, particularly his contested ball and making his tackles stick. Whilst he has a good leg, he often struggles to find composure and executes poorly.

Anyway, wish him, Shaun and Liam all the best at their new clubs, and hope we can get reasonable return for the lot of them.

[LostDoggy]

Spoken with truth and class

[bornadog]

Well seven out, Jong in and perhaps two F/S. Leaves us 4 live picks.

[GVGjr]

Well seven out, Jong in and perhaps two F/S. Leaves us 4 live picks.

We haven't nominated Foster. More than likely we will have one father son selection.

[bornadog]

We haven't nominated Foster. More than likely we will have one father son selection.

Just read it with surprise. Well that is 5 picks now.

[chef]

5 picks is great.

[bull79]

Now Tutt's leaving!
Look on the bright side were getting another Cordy Yipeeeee!:mad: Well he can't be worse than his brother.

We better play hardball in negotiating Jones & Tutt!

[mighty_west]

Now Tutt's leaving!
Look on the bright side were getting another Cordy Yipeeeee!:mad: Well he can't be worse than his brother.

We better play hardball in negotiating Jones & Tutt!

there is always one dud brother, Jamie Grant, David Kernahan, Trevor Chappell :p

[LostDoggy]

there is always one dud brother, Jamie Grant, David Kernahan, Trevor Chappell :p

Brett Goodes (bit stiff but....)

Andrejs Everitt

[bull79]

Brett Goodes (bit stiff but....)

Andrejs Everitt


Andrejs has a premieresip medal.

[LostDoggy]

Andrejs has a premieresip medal.

Spider was a much better player.

[Greystache]

Andrejs has a premieresip medal.

Maybe from under 12's he does, he certainly doesn't have an AFL premiership.

[Bulldog4life]

there is always one dud brother, Jamie Grant, David Kernahan, Trevor Chappell :p

Who can forget the unplayable ball he bowled. The only thing I remember him by.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Who can forget the unplayable ball he bowled. The only thing I remember him by.

His brother Greg told him to bowl it. Trevor's body language shows he wasn't too keen on it. Greg says he now regrets it.