Is the Judd Vs Hodge thing settled now?

[bulldogtragic]

Judd: 1 Premiership, 2 brownlows, former captain
Hodge: 3 Premierships, 2 Norm Smiths (both winning GF's), current and ongoing captain, Numerous Players Assoc awards fo most courageous and best captain

Enough in history yet to say Hodge was rightfully picked ahead? The debate is over for mine now and if both guys play on, I think the gap will only get bigger.

[chef]

If Judd didn't screw his groin they'd be no debate IMO, but injury certainly closed the gap.

[jeemak]

Judd for mine without too many questions.

He spent his entire career running through the middle with two guys hanging off him, dominating irrespective of the serious issues he had with his groin.

Hodge during the original Clarko's cluster years used to get lauded for doing the absolute minimum a sweeper should do, I've not seen anything like it since Paul Roos used to get massive kudos for racking up touches playing loose in defence for the Sydney Swans.

However, none of that is Hodge's fault. As the Hawk's game has changed he's had to be more accountable and he has turned into an amazing midfielder that can damage from behind the ball and use it brilliantly in the forward half. He's tough, plays tall and kicks goals which is what you want for a midfielder. Having said that, he's benefited from not having to be the guy lifting the team week in week out as he's been surrounded by brilliance, which is something that can't be said about Judd these past seven years.

Unfortunately we'll never know how Judd may have been in a team as good as Hawthorn has been in all but one year since 2008. During this time Carlton have been terrible, but time and again Judd has been the shining light in all of that, and very unlucky with his body.

Hodge has performed well in big games, though in order to do that you need to be in a team capable of reaching them so it's a little unfair to count that in the comparison, even though people will always point to it.

What it comes down to for me is Judd was always the main guy to stop and had entire midfields trying to do that on a weekly basis. He still thrived in such a hostile environment. That can't be said for Hodge, though it's hard to count that against him as he doesn't decide where he plays.

[Twodogs]

If we still had a Victorian team then we could have seen them both in the same midfield.

Hodge for me.

His leadership is what wins me over. He knows perfectly where he and his teammates best fit to win games and he's willing to do anything to get it done. I'm not saying that Judd can't pick a team up and drag it over the line but Luke Hodge has been Captain and Spiritual Leader of Premiership teams..

Don't forget that he's had his injury woes too.

[jeemak]

I forgot to add Hodge being excellent by foot at a level not many players reach, which is a very good reason to rate him very highly.

[Topdog]

Personally dont think the debate has been valid for 6 years now. Both excellent players and no mistake could be made

[jeemak]

Personally dont think the debate has been valid for 6 years now. Both excellent players and no mistake could be made

Good point. It's like arguing over something immaterial, where personal prejudices and preferences take over objective issues.

[KT31]

Hodge for me, truly loyal and has led from the front.
And one for the pundits who is Hodges Misses ?
Who cares because footy is his main agenda.

[jeemak]

Hodge for me, truly loyal and has led from the front.
And one for the pundits who is Hodges Misses ?
Who cares because footy is his main agenda.

I think if you peeled back the layers on Hawthorn and Hodge you'd probably find some pretty serious Harold's (Physical Milk commercial references) in the closet.

Having a hot wife who sometimes comes into the limelight shouldn't come into it.

[The Doctor]

Hodge for me.

[Greystache]

No debate for me. Hodge made his name dropping in the hole across half back and setting up play but never able to be a dominant player through the midfield while being tagged. Judd easily.

Hodge being forced to be the number 1 mid in a poor team gets viewed as a player who never managed to reach their potential.

[Topdog]

For me Judd is a once in a generation player (not including Gary Ablett :p) whilst Hodge is an inspirational leader who is a great organiser of his defence and reads the play superbly.

[Remi Moses]

Judd for me
The explosiveness, and not discounting Hodge for a moment .
Hodge is a better leader IMHO.
Remember the pitch forks and torches at Glenferrie when they traded Croad for the pick?

[lemmon]

Hodge is undoubtedly a gun but Judd is the best midfielder I've seen and that's including Gary Ablett. No player has transitioned so flawlessly from being the best outside runner in the game as he was at West Coast into a Brownlow medal winning inside midfielder at Carlton. You have to love Hodgey and the way he goes about it but in terms of them as individual players I'd have Judd every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[The Doctor]

Hodge is a better leader IMHO.


That's what tipped it over the line for me. He brings others into the game and makes the team better because of it.

[mjp]

To be fair, when you look at the original post Judd also won a Norm Smith and captained two clubs. I guess you can question his loyalty but Hodge was not drafted interstate at 18.

Both great players. Not sure why I have to pick

[craigsahibee]

I still haven't forgiven Hodge for condescendingly patting Steven Tiller on the head after he baulked him and goaled after Tiller fell over in only his first or second game. Just showed complete dis-respect to us at a time when Hodge and his team hadn't achieved anything. The other bloke on the other hand is a salary cap evading turd that has represented both West Coast and Carlton. Just as bad as each other I reckon.

[Scorlibo]

Judd, for sure.

I reckon you'd love to go into battle with Hodgey, in big games there's no one better, but as others have said, Hodge has never shown the ability to be consistently elite where it matters - in the midfield.

Juddy has been an incredible player, better than Voss, Hird and Buckley, probably the best I've seen.

[Topdog]

I still haven't forgiven Hodge for condescendingly patting Steven Tiller on the head after he baulked him and goaled after Tiller fell over in only his first or second game. Just showed complete dis-respect to us at a time when Hodge and his team hadn't achieved anything. The other bloke on the other hand is a salary cap evading turd that has represented both West Coast and Carlton. Just as bad as each other I reckon.

Good to see you don't hold grudges and can appreciate the great players of this sport

[bornadog]

Good to see you don't hold grudges and can appreciate the great players of this sport

I thought it was humorous.

[Ozza]

Was having this discussion last night with my Hawthorn supporting brother in law.

Hodge has closed the gap - but Judd is still slightly ahead for me. Either way - both clubs would be very satisified with what they got and wouldn't change their picks if they had their time again.

But I think it is easy to forget how good Judd was in both Grand Finals he played in. 2 Brownlows, and but for a significant injury when he was miles in front in another count - could have had 3. Judd would be in the best handful of midfield players ever and was an absolutely dominant player from 2005-2012.

Hodge is an outstanding big game player and leader.

[craigsahibee]

Good to see you don't hold grudges and can appreciate the great players of this sport

Who knows what impact Hodge's actions had on Steven Tiller. For all we know that little incident may have shattered the kid's confidence forever. Take that disrespectful act out and we could be talking about Hodge, Judd and Tiller.

I do appreciate the skills of the modern day player and enjoy watching them ply their trade to the best of their abilities, as long as it's not against us. Probably the reason why I don't partake in those crappy DreamTeam / Supercoach Competitions. I can't go to the footy to watch us play the Blues and hope Marc Murphy gets 30+ touches and 100+ points.

But yes, I do hold grudges. Always had a dislike of Melbourne, but that grew ten-fold the day Grinter smashed Terry Wallace. Ever since then I rejoice in every piece of bad fortune that descends on the Melbourne Football Club.

[Ozza]

Who knows what impact Hodge's actions had on Steven Tiller. For all we know that little incident may have shattered the kid's confidence forever. Take that disrespectful act out and we could be talking about Hodge, Judd and Tiller..

Hodge, Judd and Tiller.....the debate that rages on in pubs around Australia for generations to come....

In all seriousness, if that incident is enough to shatter a player - then that would be a sure fire way to know someone is not cut out for the AFL. Players and Teams that win premierships are ruthless.

[bulldogtragic]

I love this comparison, I think Hodge may have leap frogged Judd now.

Judd: 279 games, 288 goals, club captain, 1 X premiership captain, 1 X Norm Smith, 1 X premiership, 6 x All Australian and once captain, 2 Brownlows
Trade: Kennedy, Pick 3 & 20


Hodge: 270 games, 188 goals, club captain, 3 X time premiership captain, 2 X Norm Smiths & nearly a third today, 4 X premierships, 4 time All Australian & once captain.
Trade: Trent Croad & Luke McPharlin

[westdog54]

It's still close on those numbers but Hodge edges him in my book.

Juddy has more individual Honours. If he hadn't have gone to the most mismanaged club in the land he'd probably have better numbers again.

[1eyedog]

Two Brownlows is massive. Judd is the better player and that's what they're getting assessed on. Four premierships is a team effort but Hodge is by far the better captain / leader and club man.

Removing the numbers, Judd was more exhilirating to watch.

[hujsh]

With both at their best, Judd is better. Hodge has lasted longer and been part of sustained success but Judd was the better player.

[bulldogtragic]

With both at their best, Judd is better. Hodge has lasted longer and been part of sustained success but Judd was the better player.

The bigger question is who would get drafted first with hindsight?

[hujsh]

The bigger question is who would get drafted first with hindsight?

Well if you're the Hawks you don't rick messing up whatever got you 4 premierships. If it's another team with the 1st pick you probably go Judd and hopefully he doesn't get the shoulder/OP. Unless you need more versatility and have a very strong midfield then maybe Hodge.

[westdog54]

The bigger question is who would get drafted first with hindsight?

Still Hodge for mine. More versatile and I think he's a better leader on field.

[Ozza]

I think Hodge still gets picked first if you could start over. He's had a massive say in Hawthorn winning 4 flags and that's what they play footy for. Judd was an unbelievable player at his best. Hodge has the intangibles, the leadership, the ability to will himself onto the big moments of a game and lift his side as much as any player we've seen.

[Murphy'sLore]

Has Hodge ever gouged any eyes, or done a chicken wing? Because that's what I associate with Judd.

[hujsh]

Has Hodge ever gouged any eyes, or done a chicken wing? Because that's what I associate with Judd.

Good thing Hodge is so fair and clean. Kinda bloke you'd love to have a beer with. (Just get the keys off him first)

[Topdog]

Has Hodge ever gouged any eyes, or done a chicken wing? Because that's what I associate with Judd.

I feel sorry for you to be honest. I think of his blitzing run's, his brilliance at West Coast, that insane 5 goal half.

[1eyedog]

Has Hodge ever gouged any eyes, or done a chicken wing? Because that's what I associate with Judd.

Silly arguement. Does Judd drive home pissed?

[Happy Days]

Silly arguement. Does Judd drive home pissed?

Has Judd ever tried to decapitate someone with a point post?

I've still got Judd btw. I think there is a recency/premiership bias towards this argument; 03-07 Judd was untouchable, and the best player I've ever seen.

[Murphy'sLore]

I feel sorry for you to be honest. I think of his blitzing run's, his brilliance at West Coast, that insane 5 goal half.

I wasn't really watching football when Judd was at West Coast so that all passed me by. I'll take your word for it.

[Twodogs]

And don't let him drink any beer.

[GVGjr]

Has Hodge ever gouged any eyes, or done a chicken wing? Because that's what I associate with Judd.

That forearm to the face of Swallow should have earned a 4 week spell. If I was just judging fairness between he and Judd I would lean towards Judd.

[boydogs]

This is hard because Judd lost so much of his physical capability in the second half of his career, much like Cooney

Judd at his best was better

[LostDoggy]

This is hard because Judd lost so much of his physical capability in the second half of his career, much like Cooney

Judd at his best was better

Agree. Judd also played the last half of his career carrying a rabble. Imagine his record if he'd spent that time at Hawthorn.

[Murphy'sLore]

Silly arguement. Does Judd drive home pissed?

Disagree. I think it's legitimate to take nasty on-field actions into account when assessing a player, as a player. Agree that off-field behaviour is not relevant to that judgement.

[westdog54]

Then surely you'd acknowledge that Hodge had his fair share of moments when it comes to foul play?

[Murphy'sLore]

Sure. A pox on both their houses.

[Scorlibo]

Judd for me, just as much a big game player as Hodge - won a Norm in his first GF and was the leading possession winner on the winning team in his second.