Where to with Trade/Draft Strategy from Here?

[F'scary]

We currently have 8 players off the list or almost certainly gone (Gia, Williams, Young, Howard, Goodes, Tutt, Jones, Higgins); there is one Rookie promotion so far (Jong).

That means 7 potential draft picks/trades are open within our list cap.

Our national draft picks are currently 5, 25, 26, 43, 61, 79, 97.

Jones & Tutt may go via straight player swaps or for picks higher than our two last ones. There has been talk of 42 & 60 from the Blues. In which case we would have 5, 25, 26, 42, 43, 60, 61.

One strategy that the club seems possibly to be pursuing is to use both 25 & 26 on trades which would entail that Zaine Cordy can be picked up with pick 42 under Father/Son rules, even if, say, pick 20 is bid for him, which is not out of the question, apparently. If we also trade pick 42 & 43, that would mean Cordy can be secured with pick 60 or 61.

What would we do with 79 & 97 anyway, if it came to that?

Promote one or two of the current rookies? Pick a couple of smokies? Don't use the picks and look at two delisted free agents and the preseason draft?

Could we also cut one or two more to pick up some delisted players?

I guess a lot of what we do will depend on who is available and the timing.

I would welcome any insights Woofers might have on where we are headed over the next month or so.

[westdog54]

F/S bidding takes place on Monday morning. We'll know what pick we have committed to Zaine before trade week starts.

[F'scary]

F/S bidding takes place on Monday morning. We'll know what pick we have committed to Zaine before trade week starts.

I see. So if someone does offer, say pick 20 we will have to use 25 because we will not have yet had the opportunity to trade picks 25 & 26. Thank you WD54.

[F'scary]

Just a footnote on Cordy, Z: From what I have read, pick 25 will be worthwhile to ensure we have his services.

[bulldogtragic]

Good summation. Only little thing is Zaine will be decided before pick trading, so if it's pick 25, then it's 25.

So Zaine for Higgins.

So bank on 5, 26, 43, 61 (say Gia, Tommy, Young, Goodes)

Jong upgraded (say Howard)

So, Tutt & Jones.

Ideally, Tutt gets us a slight upgrade somehow (another live pick therefore). Jones gets us 27 hopefully.

In this scenario we get 5 (Wright hopefully), 25 (Zaine), 26, 27 (trade bait), 38ish, 61 (Redpath isn't delisted, so maybe him), 79 (Jong) - a PSD selection. Leaving all rookie spots open.

My guess right now??? Assuming no others get traded out:

Wright, Cordy, 26, 27 - or traded player option, 38. Two rookie upgrades. PSD pick. All rookies (Foster maybe?).

I think if we can get a ruck/forward, tall running defender, KP tall defender & outside pace (26 & 27) and best at 38 we've done ok, with a PSD pick. Then rookie for all positions. This could be smashed by Monday...

[F'scary]

Good summation. Only little thing is Zaine will be decided before pick trading, so if it's pick 25, then it's 25.

So Zaine for Higgins.

So bank on 5, 26, 43, 61 (say Gia, Tommy, Young, Goodes)

Jong upgraded (say Howard)

So, Tutt & Jones.

Ideally, Tutt gets us a slight upgrade somehow (another live pick therefore). Jones gets us 27 hopefully.

In this scenario we get 5 (Wright hopefully), 25 (Zaine), 26, 27 (trade bait), 38ish, 61 (Redpath isn't delisted, so maybe him), 79 (Jong) - a PSD selection. Leaving all rookie spots open.

My guess right now??? Assuming no others get traded out:

Wright, Cordy, 26, 27 - or traded player option, 38. Two rookie upgrades. PSD pick. All rookies (Foster maybe?).

I think if we can get a ruck/forward, tall running defender, KP tall defender & outside pace (26 & 27) and best at 38 we've done ok, with a PSD pick. Then rookie for all positions. This could be smashed by Monday...

Well, I wasn't across the effect of the ordering of the procedings on the F/S pick. But it seems to me you are a little optimistic with getting Wright at 5 and getting 27 for Jones. I have a funny feeling we will settle for Carton's 42.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, I wasn't across the effect of the ordering of the procedings on the F/S pick. But it seems to me you are a little optimistic with getting Wright at 5 and getting 27 for Jones. I have a funny feeling we will settle for Carton's 42.

If we get bent over, yeah. We have to play it like Essendon last year with Stew, and hope something happens. Plan B is Carlton trade a player for upgrade to 35 or so, and we package Jones & Tutt for that. Plan C, we take 42 and never mention Jones again. If Membrey is cheap, 35-42 might get that done.

Wright's a chance to get to 5. If he goes, then a tall defender is the next best option and there's a few good uns.

This stuff changes from day to day and there's heaps of time before trade finishing and draft day.

[F'scary]

If we get bent over, yeah. We have to play it like Essendon last year with Stew, and hope something happens. Plan B is Carlton trade a player for upgrade to 35 or so, and we package Jones & Tutt for that. Plan C, we take 42 and never mention Jones again. If Membrey is cheap, 35-42 might get that done.

Wright's a chance to get to 5. If he goes, then a tall defender is the next best option and there's a few good uns.

This stuff changes from day to day and there's heaps of time before trade finishing and draft day.

If we can't get Wright, I agree the next best talls appear to be defenders. In which case, season or two, we may be able to experiment with Roughead as 2nd ruck/FP - could be good.

[bulldogtragic]

If we can't get Wright, I agree the next best talls appear to be defenders. In which case, season or two, we may be able to experiment with Roughead as 2nd ruck/FP - could be good.

Macca said recently he wants two tall defenders (as well as every other wish list type player) this period. Wright would be awesome, but as you say, if the plan is to have flexibility with Roughie, another tall defender or two gives us that in a few years when Roughie will be in his prime.

[Hotdog60]

May only concern with Roughy up forward is his set shots.

[GVGjr]

May only concern with Roughy up forward is his set shots.

Which is something that can be improved if not fixed.

[Ghost Dog]

Macca said recently he wants two tall defenders (as well as every other wish list type player) this period. Wright would be awesome, but as you say, if the plan is to have flexibility with Roughie, another tall defender or two gives us that in a few years when Roughie will be in his prime.

Watched the footage of Zaine Cordy. A lot of potential. Would not be upset if we had him down back.

[Hotdog60]

Which is something that can be improved if not fixed.

True they straighten up Jones.

[The Underdog]

General consensus seems to be that Cordy costs us pick 42. If we get 43 for Jones we basically replace that pick. I know we dream of a 2nd rounder for Jones but he's just not worth it. He's probably worth something in between but how much time do you waste and how many other moves do you delay trying to get an 8-10 pick upgrade? He's the classic case of a guy that is rated lowly by fans until it comes time to trade him and he's suddenly worth heaps. Tutt's currency is negligible. We're clearly trying to upgrade from pick 5 using a 2nd rounder. I like the strategy so far. We're building up picks to use them to try and move up and trade.

[GVGjr]

Jones should be for a player trade but if we looking at having all our selections inside the top 50 we could potentially accept a 3rd round pick for him.

The club has signaled an aggressive approach in acquiring a big name so having picks and players we can part with will help.

[kruder]

We can't just use 5,25 and 26 on kids again we will never get of the bottom. We have lost Jones and Missy from the middle age bracket and need to replace them with players in the same age bracket.

If there is a good key position player we can use 25 and 26 on then keen to do so or else happy to get Greenwood for pick 26 as Boyd won't play all of next year and Smith may never make it back. I wouldn't mind having a crack at Membrey with the 3rd round pick we get for Jones.

[kruder]

Watched the footage of Zaine Cordy. A lot of potential. Would not be upset if we had him down back.

One things for sure he will be better than his brother. Seems to have GOGO Gadget arms which will come in handy when playing down back.

[mighty_west]

One things for sure he will be better than his brother. Seems to have GOGO Gadget arms which will come in handy when playing down back.

The gogo gadget arms worked a treat for Dustin Fletcher for 70 odd seasons.

[Maddog37]

Trade out Tutt and Jones and bring in Merrett and Greenwood and you have a much stronger team instantly. Just spitballing.....

[chef]

We can't just use 5,25 and 26 on kids again we will never get of the bottom. We have lost Jones and Missy from the middle age bracket and need to replace them with players in the same age bracket.

If there is a good key position player we can use 25 and 26 on then keen to do so or else happy to get Greenwood for pick 26 as Boyd won't play all of next year and Smith may never make it back. I wouldn't mind having a crack at Membrey with the 3rd round pick we get for Jones.

I'm happy for us to keep on going on the long term plan. Picks 5, 25, 26 and 42(probably used on Cordy) need to be used on the best available talent in the draft. I hope we don't just top up with average players from other clubs.

Pretty confident we'll end up with a decent tall at 5, especially if the Lions trade pick 4 for Beams which looks likely. Pies will go a mid at 4 with Moore coming in at pick 8.

[SonofScray]

I'd like to see us stick primarily to the draft and improve our selection strategies and development programs. No more trying to trade in KPF guns, that is pretty low percentage stuff. Perhaps get aggressive with free agency, or accepting that good players will walk under FA, make more player trades at times to get up the draft order more often.

[Webby]

I'd like to see us stick primarily to the draft and improve our selection strategies and development programs. No more trying to trade in KPF guns, that is pretty low percentage stuff. Perhaps get aggressive with free agency, or accepting that good players will walk under FA, make more player trades at times to get up the draft order more often.

I agree. We should only trade for picks at this stage. We're pissing in the wind at this stage on the trading in of players and FA front. In two years time we'll find it a lot easier. We need to build up our core like Port did. Look at them two years ago. No one wanted to join them. In fact, they were hanging by a thread in trying to hold onto Boak. Ollie Wines was reportedly in tears when they drafted him!

Two years on and they're a hot young team (built via the draft) and players are lining up to jump in. That's where we can be in a couple of years. We just need to keep drafting well and developing. Once that's done, there'll be a tipping point.

Despite Hawthorn's nabbing of FA's, the sheer weight of the Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Gibson, Lake, Burgoyne and Roughead retirements over the next 2-3 years means that they HAVE TO regress. We, on the other hand, will be on the rise... If we play our hand wisely. Stay patient, avoid sugar-hits and keep the eyes on the horizon. That's what I'm hoping our admin are doing.

[Twodogs]

Trade out Tutt and Jones and bring in Merrett and Greenwood and you have a much stronger team instantly. Just spitballing.....


Mentally and physically.

I'm beginning to warm to the idea of Greenwood for the right price. If Tutt and Greenwood were the kids standing next to the shelter sheds waiting to be picked for the lunchtime game I'd go with Greenwood every time.

[F'scary]

Let us say we do take Carton's offer of 42 & 60 for Jones & Tutt and that we don't trade any picks for players before the ND.

We would have picks 5, 25, 26, 42, 43, 60, 61 and 79 with Jong to take the last one as a rookie upgrade.

If there is to be another rookie promotion (Redpath or Austin), that would mean pick 61 would have to be used for a rookie upgrade. I think that is a relatively high pick to be using on a rookie upgrade, especially when, with pick 60 last year, we snaffled Honeychurch (who on his record should have gone 20 to 30 picks higher but for, in my opinion, the growing and ill founded prejudice against players under 178 cm).

Would it be a good move to cut one more fringe player to get another draft pick (97) to use on Jong and preserve 79 for a genuine selection or a second rookie upgrade? In other words, do we have one or more seconds players on our senior list who are worth less than a speculative pick 79 or a second rookie upgrade? Without naming anyone I think we do.

[Remi Moses]

To say we'll be in the "bottom for ever" if we use the draft is nonsense.
I'd say if we use the draft well, we'll be up for a more sustained period.

[1eyedog]

To say we'll be in the "bottom for ever" if we use the draft is nonsense.
I'd say if we use the draft well, we'll be up for a more sustained period.

Yeah I agree. You would normally bring in a player like Merrett as a top 4 side, similar to what the Hawks did with Lake and we did with Hall, Norf have just done with Waite. I'm not sure what it means for Talia and Roberts if Merrett comes in unless Merrett or Roughie go forward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Mentally and physically.

I'm beginning to warm to the idea of Greenwood for the right price. If Tutt and Greenwood were the kids standing next to the shelter sheds waiting to be picked for the lunchtime game I'd go with Greenwood every time.

Greenwood is quite a good player but he doesn't add the speed or kicking skill we need

Do we really need an inside mid?

[stefoid]

Do we really need an inside mid?

IS this a trick question?

[chef]

Do we really need an inside mid?

We do need as many quality footballers as possible.

Pretty sure our coach doesn't believe in inside or outside mids(he's said as much). Players need to be able to do both and you don't need speed to be able to spread.

I'd be more worried about his disposal than leg speed, whats it like?

I've allows thought being able to move the football quickly makes a team fast.

[Mofra]

To say we'll be in the "bottom for ever" if we use the draft is nonsense.
I'd say if we use the draft well, we'll be up for a more sustained period.
You're ignoring the "feeder club" hypothesis which, if you look at what has happened between us and Melbourne over the past few years, is a distinct possibility.

We've just developed Jones for 6 years for nothing. Tutt may make it at another club.

[Mofra]

Greenwood is quite a good player but he doesn't add the speed or kicking skill we need

Do we really need an inside mid?
I'm not sure his skill set is what we lack, but he is quality - effectively a Boyd upgrade at this stage of their respective careers.

[always right]

He's a clearance specialist with running ability, an adequate left foot kick, and a smart footballer. Yes please.

[LostDoggy]

Add what AR and Mofra said and that's Greenwood. For a second round pick he's a no-brainer.

[hujsh]

You're ignoring the "feeder club" hypothesis which, if you look at what has happened between us and Melbourne over the past few years, is a distinct possibility.

We've just developed Jones for 6 years for nothing. Tutt may make it at another club.

Jones and Tutt are not good examples of this. Losing players like Ward and Harbrow is what happens to feeder clubs. If we were Geelong or Hawthorne losing Jones and Tutt would be seen as players leaving for opportunities because they couldn't get a game with us. They are 50/50 at best to make it in the AFL and it wasn't looking likely here

[LostDoggy]

We do need as many quality footballers as possible.

Not if they are running around in the seconds because their isn't a position for them though. We have got plenty of inside kids and I though our obvious focus should be a KP forward and KP back.

[F'scary]

He's a clearance specialist with running ability, an adequate left foot kick, and a smart footballer. Yes please.

That would mean from Norf we get Greenwood, from us they get Higgins & pick 26. I don't know about it when I look at it from this angle. Feels like we are helping them too much. Also, Greenwood has had one good year as I understand it, 2014. Probably, he has "come of age" but... Finally, I think our first three precious picks need to go on KP players or to fix manifest deficiencies. Greenwood would be competing with Libba Jnr, Macrae, Hrovat, Wallis, Smith, Griffen, Boyd & Cooney for the five dedicated midfield positions (2xW, C, RR, R). Getting the ball hasn't been our biggest problem.

[Twodogs]

Greenwood is quite a good player but he doesn't add the speed or kicking skill we need

Do we really need an inside mid?

Libba is our one pure inside clearance monster. Jong might be another. I think we could do with one more because if Libba isn't in the middle we get beaten at the clearance most times.

[azabob]

Libba is our one pure inside clearance monster. Jong might be another. I think we could do with one more because if Libba isn't in the middle we get beaten at the clearance most times.

Apart from Smith - but who knows how he'll end up.

[F'scary]

On the wisdom of further delistings and recruiting delisted free agents, I think it would be worth taking a chance on one or two recylings for specific needs by delisting Pearce or Fuller who seem to be permanent reserves players only and of a type we have plenty of anyway.

For example, one or two injuries and we could be down to Cordy all by himself for the ruck. Could delisted Port ruckman Brent Renouf be a more useful occupier of a spot on the list than Fuller or Pearce? Or how about Angus Graham, another big ruck at 27yo with 48 games experience? Or Shaun McKernan, 24yo 196cm 99kg KPF/Ruck delisted by Adelaide?

[The Underdog]

On the wisdom of further delistings and recruiting delisted free agents, I think it would be worth taking a chance on one or two recylings for specific needs by delisting Pearce or Fuller who seem to be permanent reserves players only and of a type we have plenty of anyway.

For example, one or two injuries and we could be down to Cordy all by himself for the ruck. Could delisted Port ruckman Brent Renouf be a more useful occupier of a spot on the list than Fuller or Pearce? Or how about Angus Graham, another big ruck at 27yo with 48 games experience? Or Shaun McKernan, 24yo 196cm 99kg KPF/Ruck delisted by Adelaide?

If Daniel Pearce's only role is to keep Graham off of our list then he's worth it

[bulldogtragic]

I think we need a mature ruckman for depth. Only on this basis if McKernan was better than a state league recruit, I'd look at him.

God no to Graham, I just couldn't stand another tall outright shit player. McKernan is close granted, but not Graham.

[Remi Moses]

You're ignoring the "feeder club" hypothesis which, if you look at what has happened between us and Melbourne over the past few years, is a distinct possibility.

We've just developed Jones for 6 years for nothing. Tutt may make it at another club.

They're going to teams who are challenging for a flag. ( not sure on Norf)
Tutt and Jones couldn't get a gig at the 14th placed team, and both have major flaws in their games.
Just because we develop them doesn't necessary mean they're going to get there.

[bulldogtragic]

Hawks have signed Frawley, the video was accidentally loaded on their website today.

I'd have a crack at Schoenmakers. Frawley, Lake, Gibson, Sphanger, Hodge and a heap of tall enough players he might struggle for a game. Maybe he wants a rolled gold opportunity to play as a CHB (and be bombarded for 2 hours every week)?

[Hot_Doggies]

Hawks have signed Frawley, the video was accidentally loaded on their website today.

I'd have a crack at Schoenmakers. Frawley, Lake, Gibson, Sphanger, Hodge and a heap of tall enough players he might struggle for a game. Maybe he wants a rolled gold opportunity to play as a CHB (and be bombarded for 2 hours every week)?

Schoenmakers!?!

You kidding BT?

[chef]

Not if they are running around in the seconds because their isn't a position for them though. We have got plenty of inside kids and I though our obvious focus should be a KP forward and KP back.

Greenwoods an all round mid, we wouldn't struggle to fit him into our best 22.

[chef]

Schoenmakers!?!

You kidding BT?

Yep, Schoenmakers is really bad. Thats the reason the Hawks are going after other KPs.

[GVGjr]

Hawks have signed Frawley, the video was accidentally loaded on their website today.

I'd have a crack at Schoenmakers. Frawley, Lake, Gibson, Sphanger, Hodge and a heap of tall enough players he might struggle for a game. Maybe he wants a rolled gold opportunity to play as a CHB (and be bombarded for 2 hours every week)?

I have to say that Schoenmakers only has limited appeal to me. He can't judge to ball in the air and too often is out of position in a marking contest.

[GVGjr]

Greenwoods an all round mid, we wouldn't struggle to fit him into our best 22.

Isn't he more of a defensive player? Good footballer but does he give us a point of difference with the likes of Wallis, Smith and Picken already at the club?

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, Schoenmakers is really bad. Thats the reason the Hawks are going after other KPs.

For a cheap trade, he appeals to me. He's much better then most of tall defenders. Like a pick downgrade, etc.

[Hot_Doggies]

For a cheap trade, he appeals to me. He's much better then most of tall defenders. Like a pick downgrade, etc.

Cheap and 'better than most of ours' isn't a reason to recruit someone.

The guy is no good.

Same basket as Kane Lucas.

[chef]

Isn't he more of a defensive player? Good footballer but does he give us a point of difference with the likes of Wallis, Smith and Picken already at the club?

I see him as a hard nosed mid who can do a bit of everything, not just a pure inside mid. He can play multiple roles and would be a decent Boyd replacement. He'd easily be in our best 22 and would fit in a team with those others you mentioned imo.

[chef]

For a cheap trade, he appeals to me. He's much better then most of tall defenders. Like a pick downgrade, etc.

Not for me, would rather take a chance on a kid as we already know what we'll get with Schoe and its just not AFL standard to me.

[bulldogtragic]

Cheap and 'better than most of ours' isn't a reason to recruit someone.

The guy is no good.

Same basket as Kane Lucas.

I think recruiting better players than you currently have is a good thing. For a good trade too, that's good too. We disagree on his potential.

[F'scary]

If Daniel Pearce's only role is to keep Graham off of our list then he's worth it


I think we need a mature ruckman for depth. Only on this basis if McKernan was better than a state league recruit, I'd look at him.

God no to Graham, I just couldn't stand another tall outright shit player. McKernan is close granted, but not Graham.

Ok, so noes to Graham have it.

[kruder]

What are peoples thoughts of trading up to get pick 2 off Melbourne? How do you value moving up 3 places in the draft? I find it extremely difficult to value.

McCartin looks a huge risk for mine. Looks slow, I'm not sure he has a tank and is very one dimensional from reports. Has anyone watched him live?

[GVGjr]

What are peoples thoughts of trading up to get pick 2 off Melbourne? How do you value moving up 3 places in the draft? I find it extremely difficult to value.

McCartin looks a huge risk for mine. Looks slow, I'm not sure he has a tank and is very one dimensional from reports. Has anyone watched him live?


McCartin will get better once he gets into the real professional environment. He is big, strong and physical and I think he will be a good player.

[bornadog]

What are peoples thoughts of trading up to get pick 2 off Melbourne? How do you value moving up 3 places in the draft? I find it extremely difficult to value.

McCartin looks a huge risk for mine. Looks slow, I'm not sure he has a tank and is very one dimensional from reports. Has anyone watched him live?

Will depend on what we have to give up, but one of McCartin or Wright would be assured at pick 2.

[bulldogtragic]

What are peoples thoughts of trading up to get pick 2 off Melbourne? How do you value moving up 3 places in the draft? I find it extremely difficult to value.

McCartin looks a huge risk for mine. Looks slow, I'm not sure he has a tank and is very one dimensional from reports. Has anyone watched him live?

Paddy can play. But the cost of the trade would need to be high based on the similar Melbourne/GWS trade last year. If it was for someone walking out like Jones, yes. But Hrovat or similar, I'm nervous about a trade like that based on the cost as opposed to PM.

[kruder]

McCartin will get better once he gets into the real professional environment. He is big, strong and physical and I think he will be a good player.

That much better than say Lever/Durdin? Not saying we are going to do it but as tragic said giving up a player like Hrovat and pick 5 for an untried player is a massive gamble. Is is a bluff? I just hope they are not trying to please supporters and the media as pick 5 and Hrovat for example should get you a young forward that has at least played a few seasons of AFL footy. If that player isn't around this year then I'm happy to wait...

[Hot_Doggies]

What are peoples thoughts of trading up to get pick 2 off Melbourne? How do you value moving up 3 places in the draft? I find it extremely difficult to value.

McCartin looks a huge risk for mine. Looks slow, I'm not sure he has a tank and is very one dimensional from reports. Has anyone watched him live?

Talia?

Hunter?

Prefer those 2 over Hrovat

[Topdog]

Isn't he more of a defensive player? Good footballer but does he give us a point of difference with the likes of Wallis, Smith and Picken already at the club?

He was very defensive but has added a good attacking side to his game this year.

Finished 18th in the league with 92 inside 50's (includes finals but he only played 22 total games anyway).

Kicked 16 goals which would have seen him finish 4th for us this year :(

In any case even if he were more defensive I'd still pick him up as I don't think we can bank on Smith making it - hope he does but all these injuries we need to insure ourselves - and Picken is very limited as a player.

[Twodogs]

I love Picken as a player but Greenwood has more strings to his bow.

[jeemak]

I love Picken as a player but Greenwood has more strings to his bow.

If we think we can find a spot for Picken in our side then there's absolutely no doubt Greenwood would also be worthy.

Drafting and trading isn't always perfect year on year, the ultimate goal should be to improve the talent on your list. Greenwood for me would improve the level of talent on our list with more surety than a pick 26.

The good thing is we are likely to have two picks in the mid 20's, meaning if one is used on proved talent then the other can be used on talent that can be developed over a longer term.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Best case scenario - we give up our third for Cordy and then take the picks (I wont digress here into how disappointed i will be to give up a second round pick for a speculative third tall).

We need talent, speed and run, and the draft is the best way to add it - with 25 and 26 we could add two players of the talent level of Hrovat, then that would be terrific - particularly if we are retaining lots of our rookies

[KT31]

Best case scenario - we give up our third for Cordy and then take the picks (I wont digress here into how disappointed i will be to give up a second round pick for a speculative third tall).

We need talent, speed and run, and the draft is the best way to add it - with 25 and 26 we could add two players of the talent level of Hrovat, then that would be terrific - particularly if we are retaining lots of our rookies
Emma Quayle has reported we will need to use a second rounder to take Cordy as the Cats will bid for him with pick 13.

[Ozza]

Greenwood was excellent in North's finals series. And that's a pretty important 'tick' obviously.

v Ess: 32 possessions (team high) + 1 goal
v Geel: 22 possessions
v Syd: 21 possession + 1 goal

Huge improver in the last 18 months. I'd be happy to pick him up.

[Mofra]

They're going to teams who are challenging for a flag. ( not sure on Norf)
Tutt and Jones couldn't get a gig at the 14th placed team, and both have major flaws in their games.
Just because we develop them doesn't necessary mean they're going to get there.
But that's just the tip of the iceberg - Sydney manage to snare players every year, Hawks too, Geelong just signed Clark - the top teams are signing quality, Crameri aside who have we got?
We're linked with Shoenmakers FFS!

There is a reason so many (including those who benefit) are against FA as it reinforces the big vs small club syndrome.

[F'scary]

Evaluating how our list improvement campaign has gone to date:

Pick 26 compo for Higgins. Big Tick.
Pick 61 for Zaine Cordy F/S bids. Massive Tick.
Current offer of 41 from Carton for Jones. Unders but perhaps not by much.
Current offer of 60 for Tutt. Tick.

[azabob]

Evaluating how our list improvement campaign has gone to date:

Pick 26 compo for Higgins. Big Tick.
Pick 61 for Zaine Cordy F/S bids. Massive Tick.
Current offer of 41 from Carton for Jones. Unders but perhaps not by much.
Current offer of 60 for Tutt. Tick.

Agree with this. I'd even give the jones trade a tick.

[bornadog]

Dalrmple on Trade Radio

* Zaine - expected pick 25. Will play Third Defender type.

* Trying to improve position, but realistically, happy still happy with pick 5/6.

* On Darcy Moore - We were keen on Darcy, comfortable bidding at pick 5 - where we assessed him.

* Other than Key Forward, focusing on key defender. Looking at best player available in Draft but a mature Key Defender to help out in the meantime is something possible.

* Foster still in the mix

* Jones - fair way apart in trade with Carlton - lot of work to go.

[Hotdog60]

Good to hear we won't bend over with Jones.

Jayden a good chance to be with the Dogs.

[Cyberdoggie]

Dalrmple on Trade Radio

* Zaine - expected pick 25. Will play Third Defender type.

* Trying to improve position, but realistically, happy still happy with pick 5/6.

* On Darcy Moore - We were keen on Darcy, comfortable bidding at pick 5 - where we assessed him.

* Other than Key Forward, focusing on key defender. Looking at best player available in Draft but a mature Key Defender to help out in the meantime is something possible.

* Foster still in the mix

* Jones - fair way apart in trade with Carlton - lot of work to go.


Also said we had done a bit of work on Jaksch in his 18th year, some players at the kennel knew him etc, but that we didn't really have any interest in him, or ability to get that trade done.

From reading into that I thought it sounded like we are interested but not at that price.

[boydogs]

Emma Quayle has reported we will need to use a second rounder to take Cordy as the Cats will bid for him with pick 13.

Big miss from Emma, got him with our 4th rounder #62.

I rate Greenwood but this makes me worry

http://puu.sh/c17ux/37b6976fae.jpg

[azabob]

Dalrymple also mentioned in time he sees Cordy becoming a second defender.

[Axe Man]

Western Bulldogs recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple: "Clubs are entertaining trading with us so we can move up the draft order, one might be interested but we're happy to go in with pick 5.

"We'll look to bolster with a key back but for early in the draft, it's just best player available."

On Kristian Jaksch: "We know him well, we did a lot of work on him in his 18th year and his has connections through our players who went to school with him. We don't think it's a realistic option with where we sit with our picks."

On Liam Jones deal: "We're a fair way apart at the moment. Key forwards who dominated state footy don't grow on trees. We want an adequate reward."

[Cyberdoggie]

Apparently the dogs are also interested in Greenwood now.
WB, Collingwood and Richmond have all put an offer to him.

[Scorlibo]

Greenwood was excellent in North's finals series. And that's a pretty important 'tick' obviously.

v Ess: 32 possessions (team high) + 1 goal
v Geel: 22 possessions
v Syd: 21 possession + 1 goal

Huge improver in the last 18 months. I'd be happy to pick him up.

Those numbers don't read as excellent to me. I'm also a little concerned that Levi, whilst a good player, doesn't fit our needs.

[LostDoggy]

You can put me in the get Greenwood camp. Having seen North alot this year I really rate him. Obviously disposal and finishing is his biggest flaw, having said that it's not as bad as some are saying.

Yes we have lots on inside midfielders, but we don't have lots of quality inside midfielders. Boyd is in his last year, Smith is a complete unknown at the moment, Stevens in a solid player with a heap of limitations, Wallis is showing great signs of improvement but still has a long way to go.

Greenwood is a far better player than any players listed above. We won't be a good side if Stevens, Boyd, Wallis & Smith are all best 22 players.

If we could secure him with one of our seconds rounders i would be rapt.

[1eyedog]

Collingwood are in the box seat. I thought we cooled on him.

[G-Mo77]

Collingwood are in the box seat. I thought we cooled on him.

Yeah don't see it happening. If they get convince Beams to stay then it would open up for us, if not he'll go to the Pies.

[Ozza]

Those numbers don't read as excellent to me. I'm also a little concerned that Levi, whilst a good player, doesn't fit our needs.

You can never have too many good players.
We've got plenty of draft picks, plenty of under 21s, I'd be happy to part with one draft pick, for a player who got the footy 25 times per game this season (would have been 3rd at our club) and 18 goals (would have been 3rd at our club also).
He's also right in his prime at 25 years of age, and we don't have any quality around his age group.

[Cyberdoggie]

Collingwood are in the box seat. I thought we cooled on him.

Apparently Levi will decide tomorrow between north, Coll or WB.
He's coming back from Bali.

[KT31]

Apparently Levi will decide tomorrow between north, Coll or WB.
He's coming back from Bali.

Would love to have him at the club but it still leaves us without a back and forward.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can't see him picking us over Collingwood, or even NM.

[kruder]

Western Bulldogs recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple: "Clubs are entertaining trading with us so we can move up the draft order, one might be interested but we're happy to go in with pick 5.

"We'll look to bolster with a key back but for early in the draft, it's just best player available."

On Kristian Jaksch: "We know him well, we did a lot of work on him in his 18th year and his has connections through our players who went to school with him. We don't think it's a realistic option with where we sit with our picks."

On Liam Jones deal: "We're a fair way apart at the moment. Key forwards who dominated state footy don't grow on trees. We want an adequate reward."

Essentially they don't rate Jaksch and are having a crack at Merrett. I'm keen on Merrett for a 3rd round pick but not sure why he would leave Brisbane for the dogs? Sydney should be giving him a call...

[Greystache]

Can't see him picking us over Collingwood, or even NM.

There's barely a player at the club that wants to play for Buckley, they've had good players walk out, and they've gone backwards every year since their footy department dream team came together. They're badly on the nose.

We're likely to improve, and have only lost a couple of fringe players who went elsewhere to try to get easy games.

Norf might be more appealing but they seem to be prioritising bringing in fading external veterans over a player who nearly won their B&F.

[Guido]

I think the only chance this club has of building the core of a premiership team (especially in this environment) is via the draft.

Could you imagine, already with an impressive young group, going in with a tattslotto ticket and absolutely nailing a 1999 type draft again this year? 2-3 top shelf kids from those 9-10 picks (including a full allocation of rookies), assume another 1-2 next year, and you've built an army of a dozen elite - and I mean genuinely elite - kids 23 and under that will be there for the next 8-10 years.

You know what trading those picks for middle of the roaders does? It GUARANTEES that you can't do the above. Use a number of those picks on non-elites, and it absolutely guarantees it.

But build that core of 12 elite kids, add one or two elites via a big trade or FA in two years and see how "feeder club" we become - my bet would be we'd be about as feeder club as Geelong was in 2002.

The thing is you can't pick and choose when to go with this strategy, it has to be all-encompassing, giving yourself every opportunity and playing the percentages at every turn. By the very nature of the draft, trying to pick when and where is almost guaranteed to lead to failure.

As an example, Geelong got picks 15, 17 and 47 in the Colbert deal in 99. Spriggs (15) and Ezra Bray(17), amounted to nothing, but lil' ol' Pick 47, the most likely of the picks to have been thrown away on some shitkicker from another club, netted a 15 year AA standard player career from Corey Enright.

While on Colbert, we, as a comparison, offered our first, second and third round picks for him. The entire careers of Murphy, Giansiracusa and Gilbee, for 5 years of Colbert.

When Geelong got a pick in the 30s for Michael Mansfield, they could have gone chasing a stop-gap option (like the equivalent of Merrett is now) to get them through the next couple of years. Instead went to the draft, got a 12 year major contributor to multiple premierships, Chapman.

In 2001, they had a couple of picks in the 20s - if they had have though "oh well, we've got 2 2nd rounders, using the second on a 25 year old ready to go type who doesn't need a few years of development and can help the team right now, as well as provide us with some on field leadership won't hurt, we'll still have the earlier pick to work with", they would have picked up Charlie Gardiner and thrown away the chance for a crucial 13 year career from Stevie J.

Every decision to go with non-elite mature types or with denying yourself available picks can cost you for 10-15 years. Maybe you pick up a 29 year old Goodes when 20 Willy-watchers on Woof and BigFooty say that that Jack Frost kid (who had trained with us a year earlier) is worth a shot. Or maybe the next year you go in with no rookie selections when Kayne Turner would have been your first option. There's two likely premiership standard players and a couple of long term gaps in your future premiership team filled in right there. You don't know which kids will work out and which won't, but history shows you if take every shot available that at least a few will. However if you go into 2 consecutive rookie drafts and walk away with one 29 year old, you 100% guarantee yourself that you won't walk away with a long term gem.

IMO, a good strategy for this club, this year, in 5 words or less? Go to the ****ing draft.

[F'scary]

Guido, what if we recruited Merrett for our pick 42? That would free up Roughead to play FP/2nd ruck. Merrett gives us 2 years - time for our gun tall back we are going to recruit with pick 6 to develop and time for us to continue our efforts to get a good KPF monster or two.

[SonofScray]

I agree with Guido.

Re: Merrett, we've been down that path before and while he is a good player and would contribute something, it is too short term a fix. We've already been through some pain, lets squeeze the benefits out of it and set up for years to come. Draft & develop, it is the best way forward IMO. Just going to take some courage and discipline off field.

[stefoid]

Getting it right is much more important than slavishly sticking to a particular policy.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/31/afl-contenders-traded-their-way-to-success/

Melbourne and Richmond have frittered wasted as many great draft picks as otger teams have wasted on dud trades.

Just pick the right players.

[Topdog]

Those numbers don't read as excellent to me. I'm also a little concerned that Levi, whilst a good player, doesn't fit our needs.

how about now?

v Ess: 32 possessions (team high) + 1 goal, 7 tackles, 7 i50s & 6 clearances
v Geel: 22 possessions + 5 tackles, 3 i50's & 5 bounces
v Syd: 21 possession + 1 goal + 6 clearances & 4 i50s

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's barely a player at the club that wants to play for Buckley, they've had good players walk out, and they've gone backwards every year since their footy department dream team came together. They're badly on the nose.

We're likely to improve, and have only lost a couple of fringe players who went elsewhere to try to get easy games.

Norf might be more appealing but they seem to be prioritising bringing in fading external veterans over a player who nearly won their B&F.

Agreed, but they still hold a 'big club' advantage of having the best facilities/resources available and the opportunity to play in front of 60,000 fans every week on the MCG. Players regularly cite this as a reason for moving to them 9and Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton etc).

I think our 2014 season has hurt our chances of attracting players, if only based on perception.

One thing I hope we don't do is recruit Merrett. OK player, but he's 30 - need anyone say more?

[w3design]

Guido, what if we recruited Merrett for our pick 42? That would free up Roughead to play FP/2nd ruck. Merrett gives us 2 years - time for our gun tall back we are going to recruit with pick 6 to develop and time for us to continue our efforts to get a good KPF monster or two.
I get where you are coming from F'scary my only comment playing devils advocate is wouldn't it be better playing Roberts and Tallia as the KPD's with Roughy as backup or swapping with Roberts through either injury or matchup.

would love to see Roughy tried up as a KPF after his experience in defence where he wold have learnt a lot from playing on gun KPF's and for 5 minute bursts in the ruck it would really structure us up nicely

[bornadog]

One thing I hope we don't do is recruit Merrett. OK player, but he's 30 - need anyone say more?

After telling Lake he is too old and then picking up Merrett I will be pissed off.

[Twodogs]

I didn't think Merrett was 30. I was thinking 27. Pass.

Agree mostly with Guido unless we get a Godfather offer to swap first rounders with another club with a really good player to us. thrown in, something like that. And the recruiting manager can adapt his strategy to use the new draft pick properly.

[bulldogtragic]

If GCS Suns are any chance for Beams they need a top 5 pick. They have picks 7 and 14... Maybe they and Collingwood want 5?

Say Paddy & Wright are gone, is pick 5 so much better for us then 7 and whatever we can draft or trade for with 14?

[Doc26]

Agree mostly with Guido unless we get a Godfather offer to swap first rounders with another club with a really good player to us. thrown in, something like that. And the recruiting manager can adapt his strategy to use the new draft pick properly.

Agree TD, you need to keep some flexibility in your strategy, especially for talls with proven talent, which if I've interpreted the main part of Guido's point correctly, is more to stay away from trading your valuable picks for middle of the roaders.

Geelong in 2004 traded away picks 12 & 16 (Danny Meyer & Adam Pattison) to fill their requirement for a genuine ruck / forward. This move netted them their three time premiership ruckman in Brad Ottens

[Guido]

Melbourne and Richmond have frittered wasted as many great draft picks as otger teams have wasted on dud trades.
I am assuming some level of competence at the draft table and with player development which we've exhibited and Melbourne haven't.

But Richmond? They had 3 quarters of a premiership mix set-up and I reckon completely screwed themselves over with the stupidity of investing draft picks, salary cap space, years of development and hundreds of senior games into also rans who either can't make it into a finals team or tend to get found out once there (Aaron Edwards, Ricky Petterd, Banfield, Hampson, Stephenson, I'm sure there others that don't even rate a mention).

Getting it right is much more important than slavishly sticking to a particular policy.
For the record, it's not slavishly sticking to a policy, I have no problem in trading for the right players at the right time. It's just that IMO a) we're a few years away from challenging which limits (due to age) the pool of suitable players, and b) the right calibre of players aren't available at the moment.

Rather than going with a scatter-gun approach of going for any bloke available/possibly available because we've lost a couple of existing players, I would prefer we be very selective and just wait for the right opportunities to arise (even if that's next year or the year after), and then go hard.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/31/afl-contenders-traded-their-way-to-success/

Thanks for that, had no idea that trades could possibly work out successfully. :)

[Hot_Doggies]

After telling Lake he is too old and then picking up Merrett I will be pissed off.

2 points

-Lake would have walked the next year

-Merrett is a good bloke

[Guido]

Guido, what if we recruited Merrett for our pick 42? That would free up Roughead to play FP/2nd ruck. Merrett gives us 2 years - time for our gun tall back we are going to recruit with pick 6 to develop and time for us to continue our efforts to get a good KPF monster or two.
I have no issue with the idea that Merrett will help things out in the short term, but do a best case/worst case scenario.

Best case (realistically):

*We convert him to a full time forward and get two really good years out of him, maybe a third as he declines, adds some leadership, popular with fans, the playing group likes the fella, but age takes its toll, slows down and he falls away as the rest of team starts hitting it's straps, despite going another year he ends up of no use to us at the pointy end of the finals.

*The draft pick we used would have been a bust anyway, lost nothing.

That's the best case scenario on both sides of the coin.


Worst case:

* We get him, his body starts falling apart immediately, not really suited to the environment, takes game time ahead of younger options, departs having received a hefty 2 year salary well above his performance, joins Dancin' Douggy's world famous Talls of Shame list.

* The 44 draft pick that we gave up, well after we couldn't believe our luck that it was still available after Cordy slid, the deal was that it was going to be upgraded to Carlton's pick 28 as part of the Jones swap. That was until Merrett became available.

With 44 gone, we instead had to go with pick 156 + a Carlton list clogger in return for Jones (much like opting to go with a Vez in return for Everritt rather than Sydney's pick 40 which we could have picked up Luke Parker with).

With Pick 28 however, had we kept to the original deal and the original pick, we would have picked up someone that we didn't rate that highly, didn't expect that much of, but he just happened to turn out to be the next Beams. Or Hannebery. Or Tippet. Or Eric McKenzie. Or Lewis Taylor. Or Brad Hill. Or Jeremy Howe. Or Jack Darling. Or Liam Shiels. Or Jack Gunston. All players who've gone within that draft range.

And 5 years later that same kid, after making the AA squad of 40 in his breakout year at the age of 23, well it turns out he was just born for finals warfare, we happened to have learnt that the day that he went nuts with 12 touches in the last quarter and won us that prelim, that prelim at Metricon we apparently didn't have a hope in hell of winning. Alongside his bulldog born and bred army built from the ground up, the greatest collection of youth Footscray had ever amassed, it would turn out to be his first of many prelim and Grand Final wins with the Bulldogs.



But we couldn't do the trade because 44 went on Merrett. i.e. The best case won't win us a flag, worst case might cost us one.

Go to the ****in draft! :)

[Guido]

2 points

-Lake would have walked the next year
Wrong thread, but what compo would we have got for him?

Did he renegotiate for, 2 years, $1.3 mil or something along those lines?

[Guido]

Agree TD, you need to keep some flexibility in your strategy, especially for talls with proven talent, which if I've interpreted the main part of Guido's point correctly, is more to stay away from trading your valuable picks for middle of the roaders.

Geelong in 2004 traded away picks 12 & 16 (Danny Meyer & Adam Pattison) to fill their requirement for a genuine ruck / forward. This move netted them their three time premiership ruckman in Brad Ottens
Spot on.

If you look through trade history, there's a trend of those that really work and those that don't.

*Possibly elite 19-20-21 year olds with lack of opportunity/game time despite knocking the door down whose original clubs would very much still love to keep - Josh Kennedy (both the West Coast and Sydney versions), Tyson, Ted Richards, Polec, Miles, Gunston, Josh Caddy, even goes as far back as Tom Harley.

*Rucks/Key Positions that are top of the line or have the scope to be among the top half dozen in the comp in their position - Ottens, Ball, Jolly, Mumford, Hale, Lockett, Hall, Mal Michael, Alistair Lynch.

*Elites in their prime. Either established AA or on the cusp of being near AA level players - i.e. unquestionably in the top 50 of the comp. Judd, Burgoyne, Franklin, Wayne Schwass etc

All three categories still have a chance to fail, but they are historically the best way to go. On the other hand, targeting 24-25-26 still only sitting 15-30 on an oppositions list .... not so much.

[Sedat]

Ideal scenario for our trade period:

Carlisle walks to us as a delisted free agent (one can dream)
Jones to Carlton for their 2nd rounder (possible)
Higgins to North for pick 27 (confirmed)
Cooney to Essendon for their 2nd rounder (unlikely)
Tutt to Carlton for their 4th rounder (possible)

Keep all picks accumulated - picks 6, 26, 27, 28, 34, 44, 62 (Cordy), 63, rookie upgrade for Jong (pick 78), rookie upgrade on Redpath (1 year only) pick 96, 4 new rookie selections, delist whoever else needed (Pearce, Fuller) to get the list numbers right.

Let's go to the ND and really make hay.

[Bulldog Revolution]

2 points

-Lake would have walked the next year

-Merrett is a good bloke

Lake is a life member at our club and gave us good service - Ive met Brian and whist he might frustrate his coaches at time the suggestion he's not a good bloke couldn't be further from my experience

Merrett is almost cooked

[Dry Rot]

Has this ludicrous AFL cheating been posted?


Port Adelaide and Essendon have investigated and discussed a radical plan - similar to the Nick Dal Santo deal of last year - to get Paddy Ryder to the Power and provide better compensation for the Bombers. The AFL has indicated to both Essendon and Port that Ryder could have his contract voided by mutual consent of club and player, making him a free agent. He can then go to Port as a free agent, with the Bombers receiving a free agent compensation draft pick - from the central pool, not Port - in return.
The rules mean this selection is certain to be an end-of-first-round choice, immediately after Essendon's pick (currently 20).

Under the left-field plan, the Power would then trade its first pick (No. 17) to Essendon in a separate deal - exchanging either an Essendon player and/or picks. So Essendon would end up with picks 17 and 21 in return for Ryder and another player, or a combination of a later pick(s) and a player. Obviously, Essendon would want to give Port a player that it feels it can afford to lose.
The AFL has indicated, however, that this secondary deal must be "commercial" - and in line with the value of that draft first round pick. The value of pick 17, though, is a subjective judgment and it would be possible for Essendon to receive Port's first pick for a player that Essendon is happy to lose.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trade-news-radical-plan-discussed-to-get-paddy-ryder-to-port-adelaide-20141008-1137n5.html

[bulldogtragic]

Has this ludicrous AFL cheating been posted?



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trade-news-radical-plan-discussed-to-get-paddy-ryder-to-port-adelaide-20141008-1137n5.html

**** me. If this is allowed to happen then it's all a joke and I will lose the millionth of 1% respect I have for the AFL.

[Dry Rot]

**** me. If this is allowed to happen then it's all a joke and I will lose the millionth of 1% respect I have for the AFL.

On the other hand, if Carlisle tomorrow walks to us under this system for one of our second round picks, I'd then say that the AFL is very wise and fair.

[bulldogtragic]

On the other hand, if Carlisle tomorrow walks to us under this system for one of our second round picks, I'd then say that the AFL is very wise and fair.

Not me. Ethics and responsibility seem to words not known to the AFL. If the contract is ripped up then it's a matter between the employer and the employee. Enducing an employer to not act against the employee by bribing the club with additional compensation is a bad principle. If Essendon are guilty of breaching the contract then they should suffer the consequences of their own actions. Every other club, us included, gets pushed down the draft order because of REWARDED boarder line criminal neglect. If this is the principle allowed we should tell the AFL we drugged Cooney, Jones & Tutt and every player in future years to get higher draft picks. The life lessons to all watching this saga is morally disgusting. Seriously, offering a carrot to Essendon for their actions.

Stuff it, drug every player on the list now. Or just give them 'vitamin tablets'. Even in tablet form, tell them it's vitamins and when they crack the shits tell the AFL they want to quit the club and tell the world it was a Mexican doping drug and rip up the contract and get FA compo.

[Dry Rot]

Agree it's all dodgy. Almost reminds me of a rotten deal involving Veale and Rawlings 10 years ago.

[divvydan]

Really the only difference between the Veale deal and this is that the AFL is saying the other part of the trade needs to be "commercial". What I take that to mean is that the trade should appear reasonable on its own, regardless of the Ryder aspect to it. Big question concerns what is considered reasonable.

Last year Stk and Nth came to an understanding with regards to NDS. Stk led him leave and received pick 25 as compensation instead of the pick 30 Nth were offering. Then Nth traded Delaney to Stk for pick 77 which the AFL agreed to. Delaney had played 26 games for Nth over 4 years and 5 in his last year there. No one seemed to have an issue with it at the time.

[bulldogtragic]

Really the only difference between the Veale deal and this is that the AFL is saying the other part of the trade needs to be "commercial". What I take that to mean is that the trade should appear reasonable on its own, regardless of the Ryder aspect to it. Big question concerns what is considered reasonable.

Last year Stk and Nth came to an understanding with regards to NDS. Stk led him leave and received pick 25 as compensation instead of the pick 30 Nth were offering. Then Nth traded Delaney to Stk for pick 77 which the AFL agreed to. Delaney had played 26 games for Nth over 4 years and 5 in his last year there. No one seemed to have an issue with it at the time.

Saints played the system with a contractual clause, not that I thought it was a good rule. If this is allowed to happen, very seriously, we should allow Cooney to use the same rule and thus get actual compensation. The ramifications of allowing this is a Pandora's box that will be exploited, so why wouldn't we benefit also? I think FA banding accumulates compo, so Cooney comp could turn pick 26 into pick 19.

[Remi Moses]

Someone on here said the AFL was becoming like WWE.
I'd say WWE is a more credible organisation and the AFL is more fabricated .
Enough is Enough

[mighty_west]

Here's my take :

The more I think of it, the more sense it makes to get a Lonergan to help our structure to really start moving up the ladder NEXT SEASON, he just fits our defensive end nicely taking pressure off Morris and Roughy, he takes Buddy, Pav, Reiwoldt etc, allows Morris to take on players his size anc can release Roughy in the ruck when required, in 2-3 years Talia and Roberts are cherry ripe.

We offer Carlisle to do a Ryder with a monster contract he simply cannot refuse, bookends solved.

Trade for Lonergan : Minson to Geelong straight swap or three way deal Involving Cooney to get to Hawks, freeing up cap space.

Extra ruckman? Sam Grimley (Hawks) seeking trade, three way deal with Liam Jones to Blues, excellent season in the VFL, 200cm 23 years of age.

Pick 6 and either Cooney or Minson (more cap space) to Dees for pick 3, offer one of second round picks as sweetner (if required).

In : Lonergan, Carlisle, Grimley, pick 3 (Peter Wright) plus our picks 26, 27, 40something and Cordy, upgrade Jong.

Out : Higgins, Jones, Cooney, Minson.

Gia, Williams, Howard, Goodes (already retired or delisted)

[Dancin' Douggy]

If essendon can tear up paddy riders contract then they can tear up carlisles. In fact we can tear up Liam jones contract and make HIM a free agent. As soon as a trade is in the wind lets just tear up every contract and every single player in the league is a potential instant free agent. Oh boy the AFL is run by morons.

[always right]

If essendon can tear up paddy riders contract then they can tear up carlisles. In fact we can tear up Liam jones contract and make HIM a free agent. As soon as a trade is in the wind lets just tear up every contract and every single player in the league is a potential instant free agent. Oh boy the AFL is run by morons.

The AFL will simply point to the extenuating circimstances at Essendon to prevent us from doing the same with Jones.

The thing I don't get is why Essendon should get something extra on top of the free agency compensation pick? The reason Ryder can trigger the breach of care clause in his contract is because Essendon stuffed up. The reason their free agency compensation pick would come after their current pick of 20 is because Essendon stuffed up.

The reality is Port don't have to offer them anything but they have at least offered Essendon pick 17. Essendon should either take that pick or alternatively accept pick 21 as compensation. No way known should they get two picks.

They can point at the Dal Santo precedent all they like. The fact is the player and club agreed not to use the extra year trigger clause. It's entirely different when the club and player are looking to cancel the contract itself in order to manipulate the rules.

This stinks.

[LostDoggy]

Not being silly here but why all the Carlisle talk? Has his name been linked to us??

[always right]

Rumour that we are pushing him to come over...nothing substantiated. I'd like to believe it but I don't.

[Axe Man]

If essendon can tear up paddy riders contract then they can tear up carlisles. In fact we can tear up Liam jones contract and make HIM a free agent. As soon as a trade is in the wind lets just tear up every contract and every single player in the league is a potential instant free agent. Oh boy the AFL is run by morons.

Whilst the whole Ryder free agency scam stinks it is only possible because Ryder would qualify as a free agent if not contracted through having been at the club at least 8 years. Carlisle and Jones have not been in the system long enough to qualify as free agents.

[Throughandthrough]

With O'Rourke signing at Hawks, i wonder if that leaves young developing Hawk forward Tim O'Brien as an option?

[Mofra]

If essendon can tear up paddy riders contract then they can tear up carlisles. In fact we can tear up Liam jones contract and make HIM a free agent.
Jones hasn't played the required number of games nor is old enough to be a free agent - and he's out of contract anyway

[bulldogtragic]

Someone on here said the AFL was becoming like WWE.
I'd say WWE is a more credible organisation and the AFL is more fabricated .
Enough is Enough

That be me. Vince McMahon would have handled the Essendon saga much better.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Jones hasn't played the required number of games nor is old enough to be a free agent - and he's out of contract anyway

Yes. Good point.

[Greystache]

With O'Rourke signing at Hawks, i wonder if that leaves young developing Hawk forward Tim O'Brien as an option?

Are they similar in any way? I can't see any correlation.

Sicily and O'Brien might be a better comparison.

[Greystache]

That be me. Vince McMahon would have handled the Essendon saga much better.

It was? ;)

[Throughandthrough]

I thought (presumably wrongly) that O'Rourke was a lead up forward

[always right]

I thought (presumably wrongly) that O'Rourke was a lead up forward

Midfielder

[bulldogtragic]

It was? ;)

I think there was a few. The Australian Football Entertainment League or AF-EL. :)

Although, if the off field was the same as the WWF it would get me back into the AF-EL more. Gillon seeing the look of the crowd would've got Mankind (played by Evans) to distract Hird and Little while he snuck up with a swinging folding chair. Then as they get up the people's favourite (Bob Murphy) is on the big screen smashing their cars or pumping concrete in, either way works for me. Beats 3 hours of dour footy on a Sunday arvo inter spliced throughout the week with stupidity from the league on some aspect.

[Twodogs]

Jones hasn't played the required number of games nor is old enough to be a free agent - and he's out of contract anyway

Maybe so but it seems there are rules and AFL rules.

It seems like the AFL are making up the rules as they go along.

[Axe Man]

Sanity prevails:

Patrick Ryder’s attempted free agency move from Essendon has been blocked by the AFL (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/patrick-ryders-attempted-free-agency-move-from-essendon-has-been-blocked-by-the-afl/story-fnia3zb3-1227084258054)

DISGRUNTLED Essendon ruckman-forward Paddy Ryder will not become a “free agent” in a contentious deal between the Bombers and Power.

The AFL today has blocked a plan that would have had:

ESSENDON rip up Ryder’s contract — that still has two years to run — and reclassify him as a free agent

ESSENDON gain a first-round compensation pick (No. 21) for losing Ryder as a “free agent”.

PORT ADELAIDE gain Ryder and hand over its first-round draft pick (No. 17) to the Bombers in return for two late-order draft picks.

ESSENDON finish up with draft picks 17, 20 and 21.

It is understood rival AFL clubs complained about the deal that effectively rewrote free agency.

Port officials today reacted to the AFL decision saying: “We go back to the drawing board to find a trade that satisfies everyone.”

Overnight, the Power and Ryder’s management moved to trigger a breach of contract clause against Essendon.

[Dry Rot]

Overnight, the Power and Ryder’s management moved to trigger a breach of contract clause against Essendon.

WOW! It's happened!

[Sedat]

Err, looks like we will have quite a few early picks to play with now.

Putting the Griffen emotion to one side (not an easy thing to do), this trade period now looms as a massive opportunity to load up on serious talent to compliment our already talented young brigade so that they are all going to peak together from about 2018 onwards. We are effectively conceding the next 2-3 years in order to become a potential super power thereafter. High risk, high reward. The downside is that we may very well have no club, or a relocated club, to support inside 5 years if our picks go pear-shaped and our existing quality youth don't stay the course. My hope is that there is a serious disconnect between the senior players and the younger brigade, with the latter dedicated to staying the course and providing the next group of leaders.

I guess maintaining the status quo is not exactly getting us anywhere. I'd rather we went the youth option rather than the topping up option a-la Norf. Interesting off-season to say the least.

[whythelongface]

Err, looks like we will have quite a few early picks to play with now.

Putting the Griffen emotion to one side (not an easy thing to do), this trade period now looms as a massive opportunity to load up on serious talent to compliment our already talented young brigade so that they are all going to peak together from about 2018 onwards. We are effectively conceding the next 2-3 years in order to become a potential super power thereafter. High risk, high reward. The downside is that we may very well have no club, or a relocated club, to support inside 5 years if our picks go pear-shaped and our existing quality youth don't stay the course. My hope is that there is a serious disconnect between the senior players and the younger brigade, with the latter dedicated to staying the course and providing the next group of leaders.

I guess maintaining the status quo is not exactly getting us anywhere. I'd rather we went the youth option rather than the topping up option a-la Norf. Interesting off-season to say the least.

Probably the only positive is that we will have high draft picks and can pick up some serious quality. The problem is there won't be many , if any, senior players left to steer the ship after Murph, Boyd, Minno and Morris are gone (in the next couple of years).

[Greystache]

Err, looks like we will have quite a few early picks to play with now.

Putting the Griffen emotion to one side (not an easy thing to do), this trade period now looms as a massive opportunity to load up on serious talent to compliment our already talented young brigade so that they are all going to peak together from about 2018 onwards. We are effectively conceding the next 2-3 years in order to become a potential super power thereafter. High risk, high reward. The downside is that we may very well have no club, or a relocated club, to support inside 5 years if our picks go pear-shaped and our existing quality youth don't stay the course. My hope is that there is a serious disconnect between the senior players and the younger brigade, with the latter dedicated to staying the course and providing the next group of leaders.

I guess maintaining the status quo is not exactly getting us anywhere. I'd rather we went the youth option rather than the topping up option a-la Norf. Interesting off-season to say the least.

Griffen is under contract. We should be demanding pick 4 and a player like Treloar or Cameron/Boyd.

They don't have any leverage other than money to negotiate with for a contracted player.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Err, looks like we will have quite a few early picks to play with now.

Putting the Griffen emotion to one side (not an easy thing to do), this trade period now looms as a massive opportunity to load up on serious talent to compliment our already talented young brigade so that they are all going to peak together from about 2018 onwards. We are effectively conceding the next 2-3 years in order to become a potential super power thereafter. High risk, high reward. The downside is that we may very well have no club, or a relocated club, to support inside 5 years if our picks go pear-shaped and our existing quality youth don't stay the course. My hope is that there is a serious disconnect between the senior players and the younger brigade, with the latter dedicated to staying the course and providing the next group of leaders.

I guess maintaining the status quo is not exactly getting us anywhere. I'd rather we went the youth option rather than the topping up option a-la Norf. Interesting off-season to say the least.

I admire your ability to stay rational Sedat. No idea how you're doing it!

Trying to step back for a second, pick 4 & 7 whilst good early picks aren't enough IMO.

If it was Pick 1 or 2 & 7, fine. But at pick 4 McCartin is gone and Wright no guarantee anyway.

[Sedat]

Probably the only positive is that we will have high draft picks and can pick up some serious quality. The problem is there won't be many , if any, senior players left to steer the ship after Murph, Boyd, Minno and Morris are gone (in the next couple of years).
Yep, we are basically putting a line through 2015 and 2016. Wouldn't want to be our marketing and membership dept next year.

[jeemak]

I admire your ability to stay rational Sedat. No idea how you're doing it!

Trying to step back for a second, pick 4 & 7 whilst good early picks aren't enough IMO.

If it was Pick 1 or 2 & 7, fine. But at pick 4 McCartin is gone and Wright no guarantee anyway.


Agree. Needs to be pick one.

[Sedat]

I admire your ability to stay rational Sedat. No idea how you're doing it!
Only thing I can do TBB. These decisions are out of my control. I love Griff almost as much as any Bulldog player in the last 40 years - he has been a mighty warrior and a brilliant finals performer for us - and it shatters me to know that he has effectively played his last game for us. But with a fit and firing Griff in the last few years we have been rubbish, and 7 of our top 13 in the B&F were all drafted in 2010 or later. We do have a high quality core of 18-22yo talent all coming through together, and not unlike GWS and GC, we can continue to load up on this talent with another 3-4 quality players (key forwards and defenders likely) and have them all coming together in 3-4 years' time.

The prospect of losing Griff as a FA next year now also needs to be seriously considered.

Perhaps GWS are working with the Saints to give up a Sumner type and pick 4 for pick 1, which they would then hand over to us? Saints would be happy to keep a top 4 pick and add a quality youngster to their list, similar to Tyson and Salem for Kelly last year.

[always right]

Only thing I can do TBB. These decisions are out of my control. I love Griff almost as much as any Bulldog player in the last 40 years - he has been a mighty warrior and a brilliant finals performer for us - and it shatters me to know that he has effectively played his last game for us. But with a fit and firing Griff in the last few years we have been rubbish, and 7 of our top 13 in the B&F were all drafted in 2010 or later. We do have a high quality core of 18-22yo talent all coming through together, and not unlike GWS and GC, we can continue to load up on this talent with another 3-4 quality players (key forwards and defenders likely) and have them all coming together in 3-4 years' time.

The prospect of losing Griff as a FA next year now also needs to be seriously considered.

I'm with you Sedat. Shattering news but we need to make it a turning point for the club. Hard to imagine but it might end up being the best thing that could have happened.

[Maddog37]

Leigh Colbert revisited!

[bornadog]

I'm with you Sedat. Shattering news but we need to make it a turning point for the club. Hard to imagine but it might end up being the best thing that could have happened.
But the players don't want to be there, so how Will they perform.

[Guido]

Hard to imagine but it might end up being the best thing that could have happened.
If he was 23, this would be devastating.

But going to turn 29 during the season, not going to feature in a flag, it's his decision rather than the club's ... on our side we'll (hopefully) be walking away with two top 10 picks - today could turn out to be one of the critical building blocks to a premiership. It really, genuinely could.

[always right]

But the players don't want to be there, so how Will they perform.

You're assuming nothing else changes at the club...I'm not.

[Sedat]

But the players don't want to be there, so how Will they perform.
All 44 players? I find that very difficult to believe, otherwise we may as well wind the joint up. Apart from young players who haven't been given senior opportunities due to some tough love (Talia, Jones, Tutt), I haven't heard anything about any of the young group being disappointed with the direction of the club - it has only been the senior players.

[bornadog]

You're assuming nothing else changes at the club...I'm not.
I have been sceptical about Macca from the start but was prepared to give him a go. My patience has run out I am convinced he doesn't know how to coach and manage players

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I have been sceptical about Macca from the start but was prepared to give him a go. My patience has run out I am convinced he doesn't know how to coach and manage players

Hang in there BAD. We need you on Woof. Apart from Griffen the players who want to leave are hardly going to make us into a final 4 side and that is were we need to be aiming.

[bornadog]

All 44 players? I find that very difficult to believe, otherwise we may as well wind the joint up. Apart from young players who haven't been given senior opportunities due to some tough love (Talia, Jones, Tutt), I haven't heard anything about any of the young group being disappointed with the direction of the club - it has only been the senior players.
Where did I say 44 players. I said there are others

[Sedat]

Where did I say 44 players. I said there are others
You did post "but the players don't want to be there so how will they perform". To me that's insinuating that all the players on the list don't want to be there.

[bulldogtragic]

20 draft picks at this stage. Dalrymple has a bloody big job now.

[GVGjr]

Griffen is under contract. We should be demanding pick 4 and a player like Treloar or Cameron/Boyd.

They don't have any leverage other than money to negotiate with for a contracted player.

Pick 4 and 19 works for me or 4 and a player like Tomlinson.

[KT31]

20 draft picks at this stage. Dalrymple has a bloody big job now.

Maybe if we field a team with the Bombers we may have enough to make a side.:(:eek:

[soupman]

Pick 4 and 19 works for me or 4 and a player like Tomlinson.

No, think bigger.

We can get Tom Boyd here. Griffen has enough value, and GWS is the one club equipped to lose a player like him.

They have to get Griffen, and that is how we screw them.

Demand Boyd, and by throwing in our pick 6 demand Will Hoskin Eilliot as well, and demand another pick as well, but that's just so we can downgrade our demands to something still slightly excessive.

They can have Griffen, but we have to win this trade.

[mighty_west]

Speaking about the draft, NOW as a club we MUST goto the AFL and ask for priority picks/s, I know the club seems to be too proud to go down this road and be like Melbourne always asking for handouts, but now with everything going on, this is the time we must as a club be selfish, be like Collingwood and jump up and down on this matter.

Reasons for exceptional circumstances?

Your rolls royce and captain walking out on the club
Your coach walking out on the club
Your brownlow medallist seemingly gone
Other players walking out
Quite a few years down and out with further hardship due to players walking
Watching two brand new teams roll right past you given amount of talent handed to them on a silver platter
60 #$#@&$! years since one and only premiership

I for one would normally be against asking, but the club right now is on it's knees barely crawling, supporters and members are disillusioned, angry, numb with what has taken place.

We MUST do something, and now!

[chef]

Correct me if I'm wrong.......

Out
Griffen, Jones, Tutt, Cooney, Higgins, Gia Howard, Goodes, Young and Williams

In
Cordy and Jong

So thats 8 spots to fill.

[Mofra]

Correct me if I'm wrong.......

Out
Griffen, Jones, Tutt, Cooney, Higgins, Gia Howard, Goodes, Young and Williams

In
Cordy and Jong

So thats 8 spots to fill.
Potentially, Minson & Griffen out too. Jones to stay.

[Jeanette54]

Potentially, Minson & Griffen out too. Jones to stay.

Jones to stay ? Is there some basis to believe that is likely to happen. I mean other than nobody else values him as much as we, the supporters, value his potential.

If you watched the VFL GF replay of the defining moments of the last quarter, you would have noted three things.

One was the speed that the ball came into the forward line, and the second was that Jones himself was able to get in a position of advantage, and the other (very critical thing) was that the ball delivery honoured that advantage. Even with two opponents late it did not matter.

If I were his coach or manager I would be recommending he spend his summer watching vids of Nick Reiwoldt, and just how hard he works to put himself in a position of advantage. Nicks game is not built on miracles, just bloody hard work.

The rest of Liam's summer should be spent building his endurance to Reiwoldt like levels.

Hopefully he will grab the opportunity and we will be the club that benefits.

[Dog54]

I would look at pick 4 and Patton sure it's a risk but we could still potentially have a 10 year stay at
Home goal square monster as well as picking up Wright as we'll.

[F'scary]

Potentially, Minson & Griffen out too. Jones to stay.

Now that the ground has shifted so much, I'd revisit the Jones thing on the basis that pick 42 isn't quite good enough (pick 30 would be). If that is the best around I'd try and get him back. His "persecutor" has resigned, new coach, fresh start.

[Remi Moses]

Jones's " persecutor" is himself not being fit enough or want it hard enough to be a consistent AFL performer.
He wants to be the "second forward" then he can do that at Carlton.

[F'scary]

I would look at pick 4 and Patton sure it's a risk but we could still potentially have a 10 year stay at
Home goal square monster as well as picking up Wright as we'll.

He won't play at all in 2015 if I recall correctly. It would be a big risk. Think Gumbleton. Think Templeton.

[F'scary]

Jones's " persecutor" is himself not being fit enough or want it hard enough to be a consistent AFL performer.
He wants to be the "second forward" then he can do that at Carlton.

True, Jones has to aim at being the number 1 KPF. Own CHF. Or FF as the #1 monster.

[Greystache]

Jones to stay ? Is there some basis to believe that is likely to happen.

The total lack of interest in him from other clubs. It's highly likely that it'll be play for us or start looking for a job.

[boydogs]

He wants to be the "second forward" then he can do that at Carlton.

How much of that was just an excuse used by his management? They'll make up anything to avoid saying they want more money or had conflicts at their club. Clark & Ryder both wanted to go home until they didn't

[azabob]

Cooney apparently may stay, now BMAC has moved on.

[Topdog]

I really do want them all gone

[GVGjr]

Cooney apparently may stay, now BMAC has moved on.

Good source? It doesn't surprise me but he would want to have a good season in 2015 if he stays.
The fact that he has hawked himself around and gone for a test at North indicates his heart really isn't with us.

Libba senior changed the way he played the game once he realised the coach wanted more from him. Does anyone think Cooney would try and add some other strings to his bow?

[azabob]

I really do want them all gone

I hear ya.

[bulldogtragic]

I really do want them all gone

This is my ongoing problem. I won't cheer any of the relevant players on next year, won't do it. Like living in a loveless marriage, there's no romance, no future, but every now and then there's a new way to f*** us. Theyll get my money if they stay, that's it. There needs to be yet another fresh start.

[Remi Moses]

Cooney apparently may stay, now BMAC has moved on.

Can somebody inform Adam Cooney this isn't reality style football where you get voted back in by an audience .
How childish and puerile are some of these blokes ?
It's like being in the primary school playground.! I don't wanna play with him, I wanna play with the cool kids.
Bugger off Cooney

[Remi Moses]

I hear ya.

I reckon the new coach will get a fair indication who the chief adgitators are, and they need to be shown the door.
He'll be looking over his shoulder constantly, if they don't .

[Remi Moses]

Good source? It doesn't surprise me but he would want to have a good season in 2015 if he stays.
The fact that he has hawked himself around and gone for a test at North indicates his heart really isn't with us.

Libba senior changed the way he played the game once he realised the coach wanted more from him. Does anyone think Cooney would try and add some other strings to his bow?

He hasn't got the same fanatical drive Libba snr had .
Time for him and the club to part ways

[GVGjr]

He hasn't got the same fanatical drive Libba snr had .
Time for him and the club to part ways

Lake went to a new club and they told him to lose weight and he responded straight away. If a new coach comes in and instructs Cooney that he needs to change his game for the sake of the side for whatever reason I don't think he would accept the challenge easily. He might need to hear this when he is wearing another jumper before he would treat it seriously.

[azabob]

Good source? It doesn't surprise me but he would want to have a good season in 2015 if he stays.
The fact that he has hawked himself around and gone for a test at North indicates his heart really isn't with us.

Libba senior changed the way he played the game once he realised the coach wanted more from him. Does anyone think Cooney would try and add some other strings to his bow?

Reported in the age online. I'm not sure what other role he could play? His knee really limits him.

If North want him, he should go - he would be a good fit for them.

[F'scary]

Cooney apparently may stay, now BMAC has moved on.


I really do want them all gone

I'd like to distinguish between the case of Jones and Cooney. Jones walked out early complaining about lack of opportunity after being played in the reserves for a long stint. Cooney seems to be a bit more aligned with the group of 1st team players who got the sulks with the coach at a more personal level.

[Twodogs]

Speaking about the draft, NOW as a club we MUST goto the AFL and ask for priority picks/s, I know the club seems to be too proud to go down this road and be like Melbourne always asking for handouts, but now with everything going on, this is the time we must as a club be selfish, be like Collingwood and jump up and down on this matter.

Reasons for exceptional circumstances?

Your rolls royce and captain walking out on the club
Your coach walking out on the club
Your brownlow medallist seemingly gone
Other players walking out
Quite a few years down and out with further hardship due to players walking
Watching two brand new teams roll right past you given amount of talent handed to them on a silver platter
60 #$#@&$! years since one and only premiership

I for one would normally be against asking, but the club right now is on it's knees barely crawling, supporters and members are disillusioned, angry, numb with what has taken place.

We MUST do something, and now!


The highlighted reason to me is the real reason we should get priority picks. It was us down near the bottom who had quite reasonable picks shunted back to late second to early third rounders and had to watch while one expansion club stockpiled Big forwards with picks when in those years we finished low enough to at least get one of them. Let us have a go at drafting or trading the pick for a gun KPF from another club.

[bornadog]

I'd like to distinguish between the case of Jones and Cooney. Jones walked out early complaining about lack of opportunity after being played in the reserves for a long stint. Cooney seems to be a bit more aligned with the group of 1st team players who got the sulks with the coach at a more personal level.

Jones left due to the coach. He just didn't bag the club or coach, he gave other reasons

[F'scary]

Jones left due to the coach. He just didn't bag the club or coach, he gave other reasons

He wanted to leave due to the coach...playing him in the reserves. That is a genuine reason and I would distinguish it from the white-anting that other, much more influential, players engaged in.

[G-Mo77]

Jones's " persecutor" is himself not being fit enough or want it hard enough to be a consistent AFL performer.
He wants to be the "second forward" then he can do that at Carlton.

While other players are out holidaying Jones is working on improving his fitness.

[DOG GOD]

The players running the club need to be shown the door...plain and simple.
All this news of player revolt over player reviews are a farce.
They need to grow up. They are very well paid professionals.
In my industry I have a review every 6 months. I'm not perfect, so there will be negative aspects. I don't spit the dummy and leave after one of those reviews. I take it on the chin and look to improve.
It seems like we have too many Prima donnas that need to rid their skirts and grow some balls, FFS!!!!

[bornadog]

The players running the club need to be shown the door...plain and simple.
All this news of player revolt over player reviews are a farce.
They need to grow up. They are very well paid professionals.
In my industry I have a review every 6 months. I'm not perfect, so there will be negative aspects. I don't spit the dummy and leave after one of those reviews. I take it on the chin and look to improve.
It seems like we have too many Prima donnas that need to rid their skirts and grow some balls, FFS!!!!
who are these players running the club?

Do you honestly believe it's all over one review

[The Doctor]

Get rid of all our dissidents. Whether they be players, coaches or boot studders.

Given where we are at the moment putting a broom through the place might be a good idea.

If we end up with a stack of good draft picks as a result of trading out the likes of Griffen, Cooney, Jones et al then fine. I would be happy to go to the draft and bring in a bunch of young and eager hotshots. We build from the foundations up. I would buy that as a supporter.

We musn't piss these picks down the drain like Rohde & co did all those years ago.

[Twodogs]

who are these players running the club?

Do you honestly believe it's all over one review

I think that's why DG said it was a farce BAD. Maybe 'are' should be "is" in that point.

[Remi Moses]

who are these players running the club?

Do you honestly believe it's all over one review

The perception for a new coach rightly or wrongly, is the players have whiteanted the coach.
Going to be difficult to attract anybody if those players stay
The AFL circles news filters around and a new coach needs a blank canvas.

[F'scary]

While other players are out holidaying Jones is working on improving his fitness.

He should be because if he doesn't come back to us, he is going to have to put a really low price on his head to make sure he doesn't get overlooked in the PSD.

[azabob]

While other players are out holidaying Jones is working on improving his fitness.

Is he really?

[G-Mo77]

Is he really?

Yep. Training with James Mulligan who is now a personnel trainer. There was a has tag to follow his progress but can't find it right now.

Found it.

James Mulligan
Liam Jones will be my training partner for the next 2 months at the @fitcentre before he returns back to the AFL. I'll be preparing him for his 2014/15 AFL pre season taking his work capacity to the next level. You can follow our journey and training at #FCtrainingcamp

[azabob]

Yep. Training with James Mulligan who is now a personnel trainer. There was a has tag to follow his progress but can't find it right now.

Found it.

James Mulligan
Liam Jones will be my training partner for the next 2 months at the @fitcentre before he returns back to the AFL. I'll be preparing him for his 2014/15 AFL pre season taking his work capacity to the next level. You can follow our journey and training at #FCtrainingcamp

Thanks for that. I think Stringer is also training there.

[G-Mo77]

Thanks for that. I think Stringer is also training there.

Yeah I think saw a picture of him there.

[Maddog37]

Good on Liam. He has talent and hopefully the penny will drop finally.

[Mofra]

Good on Liam. He has talent and hopefully the penny will drop finally.
He did a truckload of work last summer too, broke his PBs in January

[Remi Moses]

Penny finally drops because he wants a trade.
Where's it been before this?

[azabob]

Afl website reporting that we are looking to trade two top ten picks for the number one pick.
Trying to also keep Tutt.
Thoughts?

[chef]

Afl website reporting that we are looking to trade two top ten picks for the number one pick.
Trying to also keep Tutt.
Thoughts?

If it's 6 & 7 yep

If it's 4 & 6 no way

[bulldogtragic]

Afl website reporting that we are looking to trade two top ten picks for the number one pick.
Trying to also keep Tutt.
Thoughts?

No to Tutt, I'd delist him anyway.
No to trading two top 10 picks.
We are playing the long game, and that involves heaps of top picks, not less.

[G-Mo77]

Afl website reporting that we are looking to trade two top ten picks for the number one pick.
Trying to also keep Tutt.
Thoughts?

If we can get a high enough pick say pick 4 I wouldn't package 4 + 6 together. I'd take the 2 picks. 6+7 probably.

As for Tutt. The way we're looking we'll have to upgrade the entire rookie list and still take 6 - 7 picks. It wouldn't bother me either way.

[LostDoggy]

This will depend if we land Boyd and how front ended his contract will be, but could we offer North not only Cooney but also offer to pay half his salary? Or even more? To land us better pick.

[GVGjr]

This will depend if we land Boyd and how front ended his contract will be, but could we offer North not only Cooney but also offer to pay half his salary? Or even more? To land us better pick.

It's a very good point you make but lets say we offer to pay half of it for next season? Would it be better to invest that in extra development coaches given we are going to have a very young list?

[LostDoggy]

It's a very good point you make but lets say we offer to pay half of it for next season? Would it be better to invest that in extra development coaches given we are going to have a very young list?

Yeah I probably would much prefer we do that. But if we still haven't arrived at paying the minimum salary cap amount I think its a good option. Given the depth in this draft if we can get North's second rounder we may be able to find a decent young player.

[GVGjr]

Yeah I probably would much prefer we do that. But if we still haven't arrived at paying the minimum salary cap amount I think its a good option. Given the depth in this draft if we can get North's second rounder we may be able to find a decent young player.

We could certainly offer them pick 45, Cooney and chip in some money for their pick 36 I suppose. We would be over paying but 3 x 2nd round picks is tempting

[LostDoggy]

We could certainly offer them pick 45, Cooney and chip in some money for their pick 36 I suppose. We would be over paying but 3 x 2nd round picks is tempting

Well I just read that we cannot pay Tom Boyd more than GWS are paying him for next year. Because the salary stays at a set base wage for the first 2 years.

So the huge dollars will be kicking off in 2016. Meaning I still have no idea how we will manage to pay the minimum salary amount next year

[GVGjr]

Well I just read that we cannot pay Tom Boyd more than GWS are paying him for next year. Because the salary stays at a set base wage for the first 2 years.

So the huge dollars will be kicking off in 2016. Meaning I still have no idea how we will manage to pay the minimum salary amount next year

I don't think it will be a problem, we have demonstrated a desire to pay it but are having problems with highly paid players wanting to leave and not being able to attract others like Lonergan

[LostDoggy]

Why can't we go for a contract extension for Libba, Stringer or Macrae? How ever many extra years at whatever dollars, ensuring the last year doesn't open them up to Unrestricted FA like Frawley + a 500k - 1m dollar kicker next year.

We really need to use the 95% of cap it to our advantage rather than hope that the AFL will let us get away with simply not paying it.

[F'scary]

OK so now we have Boyd. That takes care of the entire FF line for the next 7 years.

We have picks 26, 27, 45, 64, 82, 100, 118. Z Cordy uses 64 (great deal by all accounts), L Jong uses pick 118 (well-earned rookie promotion).

Where to now for the remainder of the trade/draft period?

[GVGjr]

Biggs a strong chance to come to us from Sydney.
Harper from North is a chance if Essendon keep stuffing around with the Ryder deal.
I got the impression Elliot from Essendon might be in the mix in any Cooney deal. Just my speculation though

[F'scary]

Biggs a strong chance to come to us from Sydney.
Harper from North is a chance if Essendon keep stuffing around with the Ryder deal.
I got the impression Elliot from Essendon might be in the mix in any Cooney deal. Just my speculation though

Any thoughts on how Biggs, a rookie who has played 6 games, including 2 finals in 2013 would get to us?

[F'scary]

I am not that keen on using draft picks 82 & 100 for untried talent. What are the other options?

[GVGjr]

Any thoughts on how Biggs, a rookie who has played 6 games, including 2 finals in 2013 would get to us?

FWIW, Sydney supporters rate him.

[Eze Dog]

Well, looking at it from a draft perspective, from where we stand we are in desperate need for a KPD, a classy mid (though I think this is the player we need least of at the caliber we would most likely get at pick 26) and a speedster so I've been checking out some of the draft picks that we may be able to pick up in the second or third round. I came across 3 players that from what I've read may be able to fill those roles. Let me know what you think or have some extra info regarding these players:

Nathan Drummond (Murray Bushrangers)

Born 19.1.1995, 181cm, 85kg

AFL biography: Tough, inside medium midfielder with elite speed/endurance combination. Has had excellent TAC Cup year after being injured in 2013. Playing as a 19-year-old he averaged 15 disposals, four marks and six tackles for Vic Country in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships. Good leap and overhead mark for his size.

Lee Fraser, Murray Bushrangers: "Nathan was at school in Melbourne last year so he's basically missed out on the draft and come back with an AFL attitude. He's super professional. We challenged him early on in the year to work on his contested footy and he's gone into the centre square and won a lot of it for us. His defensive attitude has been outstanding. He has a 15 beep and a sub three second 20 metre sprint and he's starting to use those qualities in his game."

Also check out his combine credentials:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/who-stole-the-show-in-this-years-draft-combine

and

Nick Jackson (Aspley)

Born 16.12.1995, 195cm, 86kg

AFL biography: Strong marking tall defender who reads the play well coming off his man for intercept marks. Team oriented player who rebounds well from defence. Has shown the ability to also play forward and kick bags of goals.

Adrian Fletcher, AFL Queensland: "Nick played down back, at full-back most of the time, but he can get out to centre half-back. He has the best agility in our group by far, he can get the ball on the ground and compete aggressively in the air. He's improving his fitness and I'd put him in that running defender category."

also

Oscar McDonald (North Ballarat Rebels)

Born 18.3.96, 196cm, 84kg

AFL biography: Tall defender with strength overhead. Can shut down dangerous marking forwards with close checking and his ability one on one. Has elite endurance for his size and has had excellent year with Rebels, averaging 14.3 disposals and 6.2 marks across 18 games. Won Coaches Award in the TAC Cup in 2014.

Phil Partington, North Ballarat Rebels: "Oscar won our best and fairest this year. He's a very intelligent young boy; last year as a 17-year-old he was combining his studies with footy and got a 99 ENTER. This year he's concentrated on footy a bit more, and he's doing some integration aide teaching at St Pat's College as well. He's one who can play forward or back, he's about 197cm and a strong man and he'll get even stronger. He's the brother of Tom at Melbourne, and Tom was a late developer as well. Oscar has a good endurance base, he runs about a 14.5 beep test and he's quite quick for his size. There's been questions marks on his speed, but 3.05 seconds is not too bad for someone his size. He's always asking questions, he wants to know who he's playing on and how to prepare to play against them. He's a bit more laidback than Tom, but they both get dirty on themselves when they make mistakes and Oscar's really determined, like Tom, to get the most out of himself."

[F'scary]

FWIW, Sydney supporters rate him.

He has to have something to have been selected for 2 finals matches. But he only played 3 games in 2014. Injuries?

[LostDoggy]

He has to have something to have been selected for 2 finals matches. But he only played 3 games in 2014. Injuries?

No mate, Sydney.

[F'scary]

Thanks Eze.

on BF, Paige Cardona, a draft watcher, had Drummond at 48 in his/her mock draft v.4, the selection order being influenced of course by the perceived needs of the clubs. Oscar McDonald 36. Nick Jackson not listed.

"Knightmare," another draft watcher, has McDonald at 39, Drummond at 61. Again, Jackson not listed.

"Young Talent Time" has McDonald at 51, doesn't mention the other two.

"Skippo" ranks McDonald as the 25 of his list of 40 best available and lists the other two in his best of the rest section.

Jourdan Canil lists Drummond at 52, McDonald at 40, doesn't list Jackson.

Having just done this exercise, I don't know how recruiters rank players, it is a mystery to me but I thought I would do this research to add to the conversation.

[F'scary]

No mate, Sydney.

That is a good reason.

[LostDoggy]

Ezi Dog, I think it's a bit early for Drummond. Those that miss their first qualifying draft usually have to have an explosive year just to get taken in the current draft/rookie draft. Give he's almost 12-24 months older than this years new qualifying draftees he'd be lucky to go that high even with his improvement he's shown which has been steady but not outstanding.

He should get take but it'll be much later imo.

No idea about the kid from Aspley. He looks like a second timer, albeit only by a short timeframe.

I'd go Oscar McDonald at one of those late 20's picks :)

I like Lukas Webbs' skillset, but with these two picks there should be a rated slipper that we can take. Hopefully he's around for the later pick.

[azabob]

Biggs a strong chance to come to us from Sydney.
Harper from North is a chance if Essendon keep stuffing around with the Ryder deal.
I got the impression Elliot from Essendon might be in the mix in any Cooney deal. Just my speculation though

Elliot? As in Elliot Kavanagh? If so no thanks. He was the kid with the help with hid dad who tried to manipulate the draft.

[F'scary]

Elliot? As in Elliot Kavanagh? If so no thanks. He was the kid with the help with hid dad who tried to manipulate the draft.

Intriguing.

[azabob]

Intriguing.

Also according to a poster here he is slow and disposal isnt flash.

Thanks for the updated summary of our picks.

[GVGjr]

Elliot? As in Elliot Kavanagh? If so no thanks. He was the kid with the help with hid dad who tried to manipulate the draft.

Sorry, yes Kavanagh. Just something the way they said his name

[Eze Dog]

Thanks Eze.

on BF, Paige Cardona, a draft watcher, had Drummond at 48 in his/her mock draft v.4, the selection order being influenced of course by the perceived needs of the clubs. Oscar McDonald 36. Nick Jackson not listed.

"Knightmare," another draft watcher, has McDonald at 39, Drummond at 61. Again, Jackson not listed.

"Young Talent Time" has McDonald at 51, doesn't mention the other two.

"Skippo" ranks McDonald as the 25 of his list of 40 best available and lists the other two in his best of the rest section.

Jourdan Canil lists Drummond at 52, McDonald at 40, doesn't list Jackson.

Having just done this exercise, I don't know how recruiters rank players, it is a mystery to me but I thought I would do this research to add to the conversation.


Ezi Dog, I think it's a bit early for Drummond. Those that miss their first qualifying draft usually have to have an explosive year just to get taken in the current draft/rookie draft. Give he's almost 12-24 months older than this years new qualifying draftees he'd be lucky to go that high even with his improvement he's shown which has been steady but not outstanding.

He should get take but it'll be much later imo.

No idea about the kid from Aspley. He looks like a second timer, albeit only by a short timeframe.

I'd go Oscar McDonald at one of those late 20's picks :)

I like Lukas Webbs' skillset, but with these two picks there should be a rated slipper that we can take. Hopefully he's around for the later pick.

Cheers for the info guys, I just haven't seen much info on the guys outside the AFL Phantom Drafts top 25. Also haven't really spent much time on BF so cheers for the heads up! Will have to check it out.

[Webby]

Elliot? As in Elliot Kavanagh? If so no thanks. He was the kid with the help with hid dad who tried to manipulate the draft.

Just on this one, did we hire Zaine Cordy's dad this year? Then after Mick Turner publicly predicted Zaine to go first round, he was pulled out of TAC Cup footy and stashed into school footy?

Then to get him under F/S with a lowly pick in the high 60's? I'd say we're becoming a bit more ruthless... And good on us!

[azabob]

Just on this one, did we hire Zaine Cordy's dad this year? Then after Mick Turner publicly predicted Zaine to go first round, he was pulled out of TAC Cup footy and stashed into school footy?

Then to get him under F/S with a lowly pick in the high 60's? I'd say we're becoming a bit more ruthless... And good on us!

Yep on the dad side, not sure in the footy side.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.

[LostDoggy]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts defense and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.
We started a year or so earlier than the Saints. As much as I'm going to watch the draft and cry as names of kids I've fallen in love with are read out the reality is we were only going to get one of them, and we weren't going to get a Tom Boyd. You can't build a team through one or two drafts so some of the deficiencies we have were still going to remain.

[F'scary]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts defense and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.

I have those reservations too, we have given up our top 10 pick and traded our best player who probably still has 3 excellent years in him. We have nothing better than Jones for CHF and he doesn't want to stay, best offer is 42 if still standing. CHB and FB are problems. Another prominent midfielder, Cooney will go for something like pick 36, its seems.

We really need to nail it with picks 26, 27 & 45 and find the quality that was overlooked in the first 18 choices. I think we may want to look at delisted free agents rather than use picks 82 and 100 on 18yo's.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Reality is no team in the competition is without holes. It's about minimizing your weaknesses and maximizing your strengths. The priority should be to address our key defensive issues. If we can find 1 or 2 key backs in this draft and next years free agency/trade period/draft, we'll be fine.

Midfielders are dime a dozen. They're simply always there, even at later picks, if you're good enough to pick them. We'll have a top 5 pick next year and can address this issue then.

Still probably need one more key forward, but it's obviously less of an issue.

[azabob]

YHF, St.Kilda have pick one, 21 and 22 or 23.

We could still package our 2 picks in the 20's and push further up.

On overstretching, will we ever get a chance at drafting a young key forward? In my view it is highly unlikely.

[comrade]

The game has changed dramatically in the last 12-24 months. Drafting will always be the cornerstone of list management, but free agency and player trading has gone in to overdrive - as we well know.

The club that balances drafting AND astute trading will be the club that succeeds. Going to the draft well year after year only gets you so far as most picks are just good average players (or busts at worst).

We still have 2 picks in the top 30 which should secure solid players in areas we lack. We need to use these wisely.

[Remi Moses]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts defense and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.

Tend to agree, but I think although it's risky the clubs building a spine with Boyd .
He's a first round pick and he's a kid. What I've read it's an even draft and with picks in the 20's we can still land some quality.
It's all nice and dandy having a plan, but as we've seen things can go askew and people can lose patience with a few lean years .

[w3design]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.
Hawthorn and Geelong built their premiership sides from 2 drafts each and father sons in Geelongs case and Trades in Hawthorns case.

our last 2 drafts have built a core and Libba Wallis and hopefully one Cordy is our father sons and now Boyd a Trade in.

There is a mix of all, draft again next season and see where we are the year after that

[LostDoggy]

F'Crazy, the Cordy pick (64) will be the last pick on a new kid based on previous drafts. 82 & 100 will be on rookie upgrade(s)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

As I said I'm not trying to howl the trade down, just querying whether alternative strategies could've been employed.
For example we seek pick 7 and Tomlinson. This addresses our key position stocks and still leaves us with an early pick to acquire another top prospect.
Come end of next season GWS will have several players out of contract, Boyd would've been one of them. We are probably still going to be in the realm of having a top 5 pick. We would've been in a good position to still land Boyd or one of his out of contract team mates.

That being said, congrats to the club for landing our man. The first high profile (under the age of 30) one in my lifetime excluding interstate pre-draft era signings.
I just hope we over paid because we solely believe Boyd to be the 'once in a generation' player we've rarely had and not because they have 2015 membership tallies in mind and are desperate to offset the terrible post season publicity we've had. I also hope we don't pile too much expectation on Boyd in 2015. Let's remember he's a 19 yr old who averages less than a goal a game right now. I don't expect him to lead us to glory next year.

[F'scary]

F'Crazy, the Cordy pick (64) will be the last pick on a new kid based on previous drafts. 82 & 100 will be on rookie upgrade(s)


Redpath & Austin. I suppose it wouldn't hurt. Maybe Redpath could be turned into a CHB through the VFL. Or played as the reserves CHF, see if he can learn the craft. Austin, more backup for key defence positions.

The alternative would be not to use them at all and try the ready mades out there in delisted land. Cambell Heath and Shaun McKernan are out there looking for contracts, for example.

[F'scary]

As I said I'm not trying to howl the trade down, just querying whether alternative strategies could've been employed.
For example we seek pick 7 and Tomlinson. This addresses our key position stocks and still leaves us with an early pick to acquire another top prospect.
Come end of next season GWS will have several players out of contract, Boyd would've been one of them. We are probably still going to be in the realm of having a top 5 pick. We would've been in a good position to still land Boyd or one of his out of contract team mates.

That being said, congrats to the club for landing our man. The first high profile (under 30) one in my lifetime excluding interstate pre-draft era signings.
I just hope we over paid because we solely believe Boyd to be the 'once in a generation' player we've rarely had and not because they have 2015 membership tallies in mind and are desperate to offset the terrible post season publicity we've had. I also hope we don't pile too much expectation on Boyd in 2015. Let's remember he's a 19 yr old who averages less than a goal a game right now. I don't expect him to lead us to glory next year.

Boyd played 9 games in 2014. The expectation is that he will play 22 in 2015 and kick 1 to 1.5 goals per game, averaged out.

[GVGjr]

Redpath & Austin. I suppose it wouldn't hurt. Maybe Redpath could be turned into a CHB through the VFL. Or played as the reserves CHF, see if he can learn the craft. Austin, more backup for key defence positions.

The alternative would be not to use them at all and try the ready mades out there in delisted land. Cambell Heath and Shaun McKernan are out there looking for contracts, for example.

Jong will be one of them

[F'scary]

Jong will be one of them

Ok, sorry I am with you now - Jong + 1 more. Cool, thanks.

[F'scary]

Jong will be one of them

Jong (pick 100) + 1 of Redpath or Austin (pick 118) will leave one more spot, pick 82 on our list if nothing further happens tomorrow.

[KT31]

I don't want to appear a downer, when we've just orchestrated the first significant player trade in my 38 years following the Dogs, but. ...Does anyone else have some trepidation about not having a early first round pick?
Boyd has great potential but irrespective of his potential, he hardly addresses our need for high quality talent across several lines. We have just lost our best & most skilful (albeit ageing) player and we still have serious deficiencies at key defensive posts and and outside mids with speed and good disposal skills.
I hate to say it but I think the Saints seem to have a much more cohesive plan for rebuilding than we do. They are gathering as many early picks in consecutive drafts as they can and backing their recruiters in, with a view to then filling list holes via trading in 2016.
Today, we're just going to come out and say it - pick six is cursed.

How's this for a stat - in 25 years only one player taken at pick six (let's remember that is a very high pick) has played more than 100 games.

Try these names on for size - Ray Sterrett (Geelong, 1988) 20 games, Paul Burton (Sydney, 1997) 0 games, Robert McMahon (Fitzroy 1994) 2 games, John Rombotis (Fitzroy, 1996) 48 games, Murray Vance (Carlton 1998) 5 games, Damian Cupido (Brisbane, 1999) 53 games, Beau Dowler (Hawthorn, 2005) 16 games, Mitch Thorp (Hawthorn, 2006) 2 games.

In recent years the Bulldogs (Tom Williams), Sydney (Gary Rohan) and Richmond (Reece Conca) may have broken the curse, but it's still too early to say.

Maybe GWS knew what it was doing when it allowed Port to keep pick six this year.

Here are five players who have made a reasonable fist of an AFL career after being taken with the dreaded pick six. Don't expect any champions.

5. Ashley Sampi, 2001 (West Coast)

One of the disappointments of the most famous draft of all, managing just 78 games after being recruited from South Fremantle. But they did include a Grand Final (2005) and he gets a guernsey on the back of his unbelievable 2004 mark of the year.

4. Kepler Bradley (Essendon, 2003)

Kepler - and Bombers coach Kevin Sheedy - have been maligned for years for this pick but the big man is now a key player at Fremantle. He has played an even 100 games and kicked a handy 25 goals for the Dockers in 2011. It's also worth noting the '03 draft wasn't incredibly strong - the three picks after him were used on Kane Tenace (Geelong), Raph Clarke (St Kilda) and David Trotter (North Melbourne). So you can cut Raph some slack, too.

3. Chris Yarran, 2008 (Carlton)

It's early days but Yarran oozes talent (and the competition here isn't great). Transformed into a running defender this season, the former Swan Districts junior broke open games with his audacious runs through the middle. Has now played 45 games and looks set for a long and highlight-filled career.

2. Allen Jakovich, 1990 (Melbourne)

There aren't many champions at pick six but there is no shortage of highlights. Jakovich burst onto the scene in the second half of 1991, kicking regular bags of goals with the highlight an 11-goal (and eight behind) display against North Melbourne that included a miraculous scissor-kick goal. He kicked 71 goals in his debut season but his star quickly faded, thanks in part to persistent hamstring injuries. Dumped by the Dees at the end of 1994, he made a brief comeback with the Bulldogs in 1996 that yielded just seven goals from as many games.

1. James Walker (1997, Fremantle)

If it ever comes up in a trivia night, this will earn you some points. Walker claims the record for most matches by a pick six by playing 151 games in defence and the midfield after being recruited from the North Ballarat Rebels. A solid rather than spectacular contributor, he also won the Grand Final sprint in 2003 and 2004

More http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-best-pick-sixes-in-draft-history/story-e6frf9jf-1226197532107

[divvydan]

One thing to remember is that lots of clubs will pass picks later on. Given that, pick 64 might drop to 60 ish, 82 to 70ish and 100 to 75ish in real terms (forgetting upgraded rookies) if not literally. The other option the club has is to keep 1-2 spots on the main list open, then take more rookies and upgrade 1-2 after pre-season.

[Greystache]

Pick 6 Jack MaCrae looks a reasonable player.

[LostDoggy]

Whatever happens with the rest of the trade period I will be satisfied. Trust Jmac to make good decisions with our remaining picks. Our pick 6 turned into a pick 1. As TB is so young and been in the system for 1 year, I will still compare him to the current kids coming through this years draft. If he was available to be drafted where would he go ? As far as Im concerned he would still be number 1 in the pecking order. We would have then tried to upgrade our 6 to 1 to get him. In essence thats what we have done. Ballsy move and I like it. No downside.

[stefoid]

So if nothing changes and Coons, Jones and Tutt stay (wont happen I know)

We need to draft or otherwise bring in 4 players.

We have 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x5th

Can we arrange it so that including Jones, Tutt and Coons, we bring in 7 players without using a 5th round pick.

[w3design]

We are able to increase our rookies from 4 to 6 and draft fewer players through the main draft

[bornadog]

Would you take - Jones, Tutt to Carlton and Pick 46 plus Mitch Robinson?

[GVGjr]

We are able to increase our rookies from 4 to 6 and draft fewer players through the main draft

I think you can have a combination of 6 rookies or veterans. Typically it's 4 rookies and 2 veterans as the rookies don't have long term contracts which is flexible for the club. If you take a veteran off the list (say Murphy) I don't think you can put them back again

[chef]

Would you take - Jones, Tutt to Carlton and Pick 46 plus Mitch Robinson?

If he wasnt a dickhead off the field I'd take him as I love the way he goes about his footy.

Maybe as a Rookie would be the better option.

[GVGjr]

Would you take - Jones, Tutt to Carlton and Pick 46 plus Mitch Robinson?

Hard call. Robinson can play but he is a risk.

[F'scary]

Hard call. Robinson can play but he is a risk.

Is he so stupid that he would not be able to see that a second chance is his last chance?

[bornadog]

Sydney's list manager Kinnear Beatson has said deals to trade Shane Biggs to the Western Bulldogs and to trade Tim Membrey to St.Kilda will happen later today but are dependant on other deals.

[Axe Man]

I think you can have a combination of 6 rookies or veterans. Typically it's 4 rookies and 2 veterans as the rookies don't have long term contracts which is flexible for the club. If you take a veteran off the list (say Murphy) I don't think you can put them back again

Veterans don't have anything to do with the list makeup, it is purely a salary cap issue (a portion of an eligible veterans salary is excluded from the cap).

Ignoring category B rookies for a moment (overseas players, players from other sports, etc) you can have 44 players, made up of either:
A. 40 Primary, 4 Rookies
B. 39 Primary, 5 Rookies
C. 38 Primary, 6 Rookies

You can also have up to 3 category B rookies.

[GVGjr]

Thanks for the clarification

[hujsh]

Wonder if someone like GWS needs many picks. If we need more maybe we can offer one of the picks in the 20s for a few in the 30s and 40s, or some similar swapping of picks

[LostDoggy]

Wonder if someone like GWS needs many picks. If we need more maybe we can offer one of the picks in the 20s for a few in the 30s and 40s, or some similar swapping of picks

They don't have bascially any between the first round and pick 40, or 45.