Coach resigns

[Jam Donuts]

According to SEN, Brendan has resigned, yet to be confirmed.

[chef]

Wowee.

[soupman]

Oh FFS This is shit.

[Daughter of the West]

Please no

[Throughandthrough]

Good. Next.

I was seriously considering whether I would bother renewing my high level of membership next year. The last time i reduced it was Rohde's last year.

And if GWS are really offering us picks 4 and 7 for Griff he can go too.

[Murphy'sLore]

Just when I was wondering if it could get any worse -- it just got worse.

this is terrible.

[LostDoggy]

The phrase basket case is starting to surface.

[craigsahibee]

Sad Sad day if it's true.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If true then our club has just pressed the fast track to oblivion button and has set the culture of our club back a long way.
Our whole board and executive need to be held accountable. Yet again we will have wilted when faced with a difficult situation and gone down the easy road.
Heaven help the next coach who tries to put in place a long term strategy.

[whythelongface]

What?? - resigned or been pushed

[Axe Man]

Only rumours at this stage:

10.12am: @AFL_JenPhelan's report from the Whitten Oval this morning as the jungle drums beat about coach Brendan McCartney's future.
BRENDAN McCartney is at Whitten Oval today as the club decides whether he will coach in 2015.

McCartney arrived early this morning and is inside the club's facility, along with the likes of list manager Jason McCartney and president Peter Gordon.

There are reports McCartney wasn't feeling secure in his position last night after captain Ryan Griffen's explosive revelation he wanted to be traded to Greater Western Sydney.

There are also reports a decision could be made on his future as early as this morning, or he could potentially resign.

The relationship between Griffen and McCartney has been strained this year but the Dogs believed they had resolved any issues between them before the skipper went on his end of season overseas trip.
10.03am: Strong rumours coming from the Kennel that Brendan McCartney will not be Western Bulldogs coach by the end of the day. @AFL_JenPhelan is at the Whitten Oval and has confirmed that Brendan McCartney, president Peter Gordon and list manager Jason McCartney are at the club this morning.

[GVGjr]

Appreciate the efforts Macca.

[LostDoggy]

Jeepers......what next.....tap on the back from the afl and we're off to Tassie.

[firstdogonthemoon]

No this is not right. Up till now we seemed to be dealing with the fallout - but this is too much.

[Cyberdoggie]

Trade radio hasn't said anything yet.

[bulldogtragic]

Bugger me this is a shocking time for this club. If Macca and Griff are done, do the job properly and take other off field roles too.

[LostDoggy]

He's gone.

Thank's Macca. All the best.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If he does resign, we should still trade Griffen out.

[LostDoggy]

This is all debate based on a meeting at the oval today.

Nothing confirmed but its not looking good :(

[Murphy'sLore]

Ca we refuse to accept his resignation?? Clutching at straws here!

[LostDoggy]

Living in northern NSW, I only heard about this yesterday (haven't been on here for a while). I am shocked, dismayed and so disappointed in my club, Griff and now maybe the coach. Why does it seem that it is always us that implodes........sigh, I just don't know what to think anymore :(

[Throughandthrough]

there's no way back from this if he stays. Has to go, even if he is the best man for the job.

[LostDoggy]

Ca we refuse to accept his resignation?? Clutching at straws here!

Think the 'resignation' will be more of a push.

[Cyberdoggie]

press conference at 11:30am from PG and Simon Garlick

[LostDoggy]

Someone mentioned in another thread the media will come for McCartney today, and it will be very interesting how we manage to deal with it as a club.

Well.... The time has arrived.

[Greystache]

there's no way back from this if he stays. Has to go, even if he is the best man for the job.

That is completely wrong. There is in fact no way back if he goes. We will have consolidated the culture that the senior players are bigger than the club, and if they don't like the message they're getting, then they can just remove the messenger.

[Murphy'sLore]

Ah, shit. What a day. How the hell am I supposed to get any work done?

[soupman]

Trade radio hasn't said anything yet.

Well to be fair they are too professional to talk about unsubstantiated rumours. I believe they only report facts.

[Daughter of the West]

Ah, shit. What a day. How the hell am I supposed to get any work done?

I have managed to open one program on my computer, and read one personal email... it's just not happening here!

[soupman]

Jon Ralph has tweeted that he believes BMac is resigning, so there is still hope yet that he stays.

[craigsahibee]

Press Conference at 11:30am. Macca not listed to attend. Just PG and SG.
#where'sBomber

[jeemak]

That is completely wrong. There is in fact no way back if he goes. We will have consolidated the culture that the senior players are bigger than the club, and if they don't like the message they're getting, then they can just remove the messenger.

Correct. Once again - if this is true - our club has demonstrated why it has such a pathetic on field record.

[Twodogs]

That is completely wrong. There is in fact no way back if he goes. We will have consolidated the culture that the senior players are bigger than the club, and if they don't like the message they're getting, then they can just remove the messenger.


I tend to think this as well but maybe this sort of player power is the new black under FA?

But it's probably us.

[whythelongface]

That is completely wrong. There is in fact no way back if he goes. We will have consolidated the culture that the senior players are bigger than the club, and if they don't like the message they're getting, then they can just remove the messenger.

It is a joke if he is gone. Where is the leadership.

Both our Captain and our Coach gone within two days. What does this say about the club? Piss weak.

[Greystache]

I tend to think this as well but maybe this sort of player power is the new black under FA?

But it's probably us.

Our club has had this player power for generations. Individual "champions" before the club, every time. What's even sadder is most of the time the players have done nothing to earn such a lofty position in the club.

[Cyberdoggie]

Our club has had this player power for generations. Individual "champions" before the club, every time.

Players over the club again.


If the coach goes, I'm hoping they move them all on. Griffen, Cooney, Bmac.
Let's start fresh. Griffen simply can't stay or there will be no hope for this club.

[LostDoggy]

Good luck trying to convince a GWS player such as Boyd to cross over in the Griffen trade now! And I would have thought this would cancel out the tom loner fan deal on the table too!

[LostDoggy]

Lonergan*

[lemmon]

The only this trade period could have gone any worse were if EJ's statue toppled over in the high winds and Zaine contracted Ebola

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What an absolute shambles we are.

[1eyedog]

W.t.f?????????????:@?^%$$%£$&£*£*&^&^£o(&uy (&**)( j)jhlijsd*!!!!!!!

[whythelongface]

Good luck trying to convince a GWS player such as Boyd to cross over in the Griffen trade now! And I would have thought this would cancel out the tom loner fan deal on the table too!

Yep. This decision will put us back years. We won't have a coach and we are trying to recruit players - lol what a joke.

[ratsmac]

If true I am outraged. This club is crumbling at the foundations. The players are not in charge, well they aren't meant to be. This shows weakness at the top. I feel for macca but if his leadership has fractured the group maybe it's for the best. But to be played out the way it has is a joke.
Griffen has ripped this club apart, and I don't want him back in the place. Totally unprofessional and isn't a captains arsehole

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This is ridiculous. what an absolute shambles. there better be a bloody good explanation or it will be the end of the club. Either way Griff has to go.

[LostDoggy]

We are half way through arguebly one of most important trade periods.

We are cooked.

[Axe Man]

It will be interesting if we go after Bomber Thompson after he gave our players a whack in his Essendon Best and Fairest speech.

[GVGjr]

We have to respect the decision by Macca, unrelenting pressure. He has changed a lot of things for the positive and we will come out of all this in better shape.

[Twodogs]

Our club has had this player power for generations. Individual "champions" before the club, every time. What's even sadder is most of the time the players have done nothing to earn such a lofty position in the club.


Agreed. The whole player before club has become a pathology with us.

[Twodogs]

As far as trade week goes, it's not a good look but we aren't the only club without a senior coach at the moment.

[whythelongface]

We have to respect the decision by Macca, unrelenting pressure. He has changed a lot of things for the positive and we will come out of all this in better shape.

In what way - sure our playing list is mostly in good shape for the future, but who knows how many will want to stay with a club that is rudderless. Our senior players (most) now have fractured relationships with the club and will still want out. The coach that we employed to instigate the change is no longer there and we will have to endure a new coaching regime in the new year.

This has put us back years.

[1eyedog]

Has it been confirmed he is gone?

[Hotdog60]

20 mins presso we don't know yet but not looking good

[1eyedog]

Perhaps it will be a meeting saying that the club is galvanised in its decision to move forward regardless of the Griffen decision. Maybe Macca is being shielded directly from questions re. the senior playing group.

I hope so...

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Would be quite bizarre to back the coach last week but then do a 180 because of Griff. Absolutely astonishing if this happens

[BulldogBelle]

Jeepers......what next.....tap on the back from the afl and we're off to Tassie.

Was thinking the same thing.

A bad situation has just become a disaster.
The club has taken the easy option. We have NO culture.

[Hotdog60]

Perhaps it will be a meeting saying that the club is galvanised in its decision to move forward regardless of the Griffen decision. Maybe Macca is being shielded directly from questions re. the senior playing group.

I hope so...

Me too but trade radio thinks it's not good that the coach isn't at the presso.

[1eyedog]

This is shit. I couldn't sleep last night, I can't work today and I'm short with the kids, it's not good.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Hun reporting Macca is finished.......

[Sedat]

Assuming the worst and BMac has been sacked, the board and our CEO and head of footy need to be held directly accountable for the decision to a) hire BMac in the first place, b) extend his contract by a further 2 years without any pressure to do so, c) reaffirm support for him last week, d) preside over a club culture that allows a war to break out between coach and senior players and e) decide to terminate the coaches contract 2 years out from completion, right in the middle of the single most important trading and draft period in the club's history.

Honestly, who cares right now who the coach is or the president or the CEO? We simply don't have the minerals as a club, never had really. Got close under Rocket, got close under Wallace, got close under Malthouse. But in the clear light of day, we haven't had truly strong leadership for the vast majority of my lifetime. Let's look in the mirror and be honest about it - we are a very ordinary club who has never really known what it stands for.

[LostDoggy]

This is shit. I couldn't sleep last night, I can't work today and I'm short with the kids, it's not good.

I just want to go home and hugs my kids. It's the only thing i've got left.

[Pedro Sanchez]

For those asking if Bomber Thompson would consider the gig, think again. Macca is his mate so out of priniciple he'd never consider it. Just like at the Crows with Sando...

Peter Sumich anyone?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What i want to know is what the young kids think about all this. If they are 100% behind Macca then there is absolutely no way we can move on without him.

[Hot_Doggies]

I just want to go home and hugs my kids. It's the only thing i've got left.

Steady on pal

[Dancin' Douggy]

If Macca does resign. there is NO WAY WE CAN KEEP GRIFFEN AND REINSTATE HIM AS CAPTAIN. NO WAY.
That would just send out the worst signals. I'd honestly struggle to attend games.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We have to respect the decision by Macca, unrelenting pressure. He has changed a lot of things for the positive and we will come out of all this in better shape.

I'm normally a positive kind of guy, but I'm failing to see any light at the end of this rainbow. I would say Macca has tried to change things for the better, but as player-power has won the day, I see all that work being unravelled. I don't believe for a second that Macca would've voluntarily resigned.

[always right]

I'm hoping we haven't pushed him but that he has given his resignation......we haven't accepted it but he has insisted.

If the club has basically sacked him I don't know where we go. The club will be seen to stand for nothing.

[Eastdog]

Gee more drama today with Macca resigning. Will be intersting to see what happens with Griffen but he won't be looked at in the same light by our fans.

[BulldogBelle]

If the club has sacked him it shows utter panic by the board and Garlic.
We have no hope or future with people like this running the club.

[Sedat]

And you know the worst part about all this is that Akermanis, that vile creature, was effectively correct.

[jazzadogs]

As a genuine bloke, I truly think that Griffen's betrayal would have affected Macca so much that he doesn't want to go on.

I sincerely hope that the club did everything they could to change his mind, but Brendan strikes me as too much of an honest guy to change his decision.

[Eastdog]

Will SEN have the press conference of Gordon and Garlick.

[Rocket Science]

Will SEN have the press conference of Gordon and Garlick.

You can watch the car crash here : http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-10/mccartney-gone

[Daughter of the West]

You can watch the car crash here : http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-10/mccartney-gone

They've labelled the link McCartney gone?!?!?!?

[Raw Toast]

For what it is worth, the press conference is being live-streamed here: http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-10-10/watch-live-bulldogs-press-conference

I'd prefer to be watching many other things, perhaps even a replay of this year's AFL grand final over watching this, but find myself watching it anyway.

[Ozza]

Being streamed live on the Bulldogs APP right now....

So far, nobody at the microphones, but you can hear the audio of the journo's sledging each other.

[EasternWest]

Being streamed live on the Bulldogs APP right now....

So far, nobody at the microphones, but you can hear the audio of the journo's sledging each other.

Any good ones in there? Any on the Waugh/Parore level?

[1eyedog]

I don't know but if Macca has resigned wouldn't he be attending?

[Webby]

Well..... That's it...

We're destined to be shit forever...

We just never learn. I live the club, but we're as weak as piss. A laughing stock. I'm done.

[whythelongface]

Well..... That's it...

We're destined to be shit forever...

We just never learn. I live the club, but we're as weak as piss. A laughing stock. I'm done.

It appears that way. i don't see any light at the end of this dark dark tunnel.

[LostDoggy]

Steady on pal

Ha, not in that sense mate. Football-sense i mean ;)

[whythelongface]

Gordon says McCartney demanded too much from the playing group.

well bugger me. the poor little princesses.

[1eyedog]

It's official he's gone.

[LostDoggy]

Disgraceful

[Greystache]

Gordon says McCartney demanded too much from the playing group.

well bugger me. the poor little princesses.

And so we give them two options;

a) Do you want to work harder to try to improve?

Or

b) Should we sack him and get someone who'll go easier on you?

What a shambles. Surely the senior playing group should just coach themselves? If they hear anything they don't like they're going to get him removed anyway.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

thats it im done. goodbye bulldogs. absolute disgrace. soft as butter. demanding too much?? please

[lemmon]

Now placating Griff?

[LostDoggy]

Always darkest before the dawn.

[whythelongface]

And so we give them two options;

a) Do you want to work harder to try to improve?

Or

b) Should we sack him and get someone who'll go easier on you?

What a shambles. Surely the senior playing group should just coach themselves? If they hear anything they don't like they're going to get him removed anyway.

You know what I have lost complete faith of this club that we can ever seriously be considered a threat. We may as well such get Cooney; Griffen; Minson and Boyd to coach as a collective and be done with it.

I bet after this decision we will have more than a handful wanting out of the club.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't buy it for one second that Maccartney walked of entirely his own volition. This is a weak-willed administration we have, who have gone to water at an important juncture. Heaven help who comes in and tries to instill a culture that demands more of its under performing playing group.

[LostDoggy]

Oops better change my signature..

[azabob]

Very, very disappointing.

[lemmon]

Please stop answering Griffen questions. It sounds like this is nothing but trying to pander to him. This is shocking

[Greystache]

This press conference is embarrassing.

We're sacking a coach to try to retain one player. Only at the Bulldogs!

[azabob]

Please stop answering Griffen questions. It sounds like this is nothing but trying to pander to him. This is shocking

It's very clear this is all about Griffen and the players.

I am so, so, so angry with the footy club right now.

[Maddog37]

Would it be fair to say that many of us felt that Macca would do all the grunt work with establishing a new direction at the club and that another coach would come in and take the cream? Lets hope that is where we are at.

I am clutching at straws. I feel very emotional right now and reckon I might go and get totally sozzled.

[LostDoggy]

Please stop answering Griffen questions. It sounds like this is nothing but trying to pander to him. This is shocking

Totally agree. PG losing my respect with this bs rant blowing smoke up griffs arse after what he has done.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

And so we give them two options;

a) Do you want to work harder to try to improve?

Or

b) Should we sack him and get someone who'll go easier on you?

What a shambles. Surely the senior playing group should just coach themselves? If they hear anything they don't like they're going to get him removed anyway.

This is what I don't understand about the decision. Blind Freddy can see that some of the senior guys are not pulling in the direction of the team. Guys like Cooney, Boyd and Higgins decide to be defensive and accountable on when it's on their terms only. It's only fair that a coach would expect them to fall into line, and do more not only on the field, but also to play a positive role in developing the young talent. In a side that has performed as poorly on the field for the past 4 years as we have, I would think the senior players themselves would realise they need to do more.
To then have the CEO and President, and presumably Chris Grant fold like a cheap suit and sack the coach.. I just don't get it. Maybe its them that needs to go.

[azabob]

If the group is so great, why did we back stab the coach?

Why did we let the coach walk out?

[comrade]

No coach, no captain. No worries!

[Greystache]

Would it be fair to say that many of us felt that Macca would do all the grunt work with establishing a new direction at the club and that another coach would come in and take the cream? Lets hope that is where we are at.

I am clutching at straws. I feel very emotional right now and reckon I might go and get totally sozzled.

They sacked him before he could change anything. Just as we started to try to start the cultural rebuild the players pushed back and the club leadership crumpled. We're back to where we started.

[LostDoggy]

#bemorebullshit

[azabob]

Gee I would hate for our club to be pro-active....

So does now our "recruiting philosophy" go out the window?

[azabob]

They sacked him before he could change anything. Just as we started to try to start the cultural rebuild the players pushed back and the club leadership crumpled. We're back to where we started.

We are further back than were we started.

[LostDoggy]

I hope you all enjoyed the VFL flag.

This is an opportunity missed by the club. Conservative, "oh my God what about the members?" thinking.

[azabob]

Peter please end this press conference.

An agreement is an agreement? Did Peter Gordon seriously just say that at a press conference were BMaC agreement has been torn up?

[1eyedog]

PG just shut up you're speaking absolute crap.

[chef]

PG just shut up you're speaking absolute crap.

That was embarrassing.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I've lost a heck of a lot of respect for PG, and has raised some serious questions about his suitability in the role. Likewise Garlick.

[Daughter of the West]

The take of a friend (who is a Geelong supporter)


McCartney was an assistant at Geelong for 11 years. He walked into a rabble and helped turn the club into a powerhouse. He understands what it takes. The players obviously prefer an easier alternative to success, pity that doesn't exist. From an outsider looking in I think the cushy lifestyle is a higher priority to them than having an opportunity to succeed. In an individual sense, that list can play.

Make of that what you will.

[The Adelaide Connection]

What are the chances that Scarlett, Mooney, etc are going to hang around now?

[Webby]

DID NOT LIKE GORDON's SPEECH ONE BIT!!

From yesterday's strong position to today putting his tongue in Judas's arse is just cringeworthy!!!!

McCartney might be out, but if Griffen remains at my club, I'm out!

GRIFFEN STILL HAS TO GO!!!!

[Greystache]

I wish this press conference would end.

We look more like a junior footy team run by the player's Dads by the hour.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The accepting of mediocrity continues!!!!

There i said it!!

[1eyedog]

How the frig are we supposed to attract players to our club now without knowing who the senior coach is. This is shameful.
If Griffen stays I swear I am not renewing my membership next year - I'm gone no more AFL.

[always right]

I might be the odd one out here but I thought PG was as transparent about the events, and the decision making process as you could possibly hope for. Do I agree with the decision they've made?.....No. I feel like they have missed a giant opportunity for cultural change.

Now wait for the assistant coaching exodus.

[LostDoggy]

It's a grand old flag…

[Raw Toast]

For what it is worth, we have to make it seem like we're trying to hold onto Griffen if we want to get the most out of GWS.

And there has been a sense for awhile that BMac is not as good at "managing men" as advertised. I mean, it should never have come to this, and it is the coach's role to deal with feuds and similar tensions between players.

Basically it is shambolic at the moment, but the club needs us to stick with them, so I'll put back on my Bulldogs glasses and try and look at this with some optimism.

Hopefully Dalrymple and Monty (presumably they are in charge at the moment) work some magic, ransack GWS for Griffen, I get a new avatar, a new coach comes in who melds the group together while making sure that the youngsters are empowered, and we become a flag-winning dynasty.

(I really don't want to think about the possibility of Griffen staying.)

[Murphy'sLore]

I agree with you, AR, I thought Peter Gordon spoke quite well under the circumstances.

I won't comment any further at the moment, I'm still sorting out what I feel about all this. I'm disappointed that Macca has gone and I feel an opportunity has been thrown away. But I also don't think the situation is as simple as some here are trying to make out. It's tough and it's complicated.

[Webby]

How the frig are we supposed to attract players to our club now without knowing who the senior coach is. This is shameful.
If Griffen stays I swear I am not renewing my membership next year - I'm gone no more AFL.

I just finished sending that exact note to WBFC's membership department. There is no way known my family are renewing (I pay for all of us - thus decision is 100% mine) if R Griffen is a listed WBFC player beyond next week.

I can't follow a team with him in it. I just can't.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Unbelievably poor by PG and SG. Gobsmacked by that.

I now truly question my commitment to the club.

If Griffen stays, I'm gone.

[LostDoggy]

Unbelievably poor by PG and SG. Gobsmacked by that.

I now truly question my commitment to the club.

If Griffen stays, I'm gone.

Sums it up for me.

[MrMahatma]

#belessshitzu

[ratsmac]

I am just shattered. Especially after PG standing firm yesterday. This is a knee-jerk reaction to Griffen packing up his bat and ball. I think this is the worst case scenario after Griffen decision to want a trade. Can we recover from this? I really believed Macca was developing and recruiting for the future and teaching a true football culture. We are a shambles of a football club.

To look on the bright side we will have pick 1 in next year's draft.

[EasternWest]

There's just no silver lining at this stage in any of this. That's what is getting to me the most. I can't look at it and say: "oh well, at least we've got ..... to look forward to" (I mean in the immediate time, I know we've still got good players on our list).

Sigh.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I could understand the decision to have Macca resign because his methods of coaching and communication weren't right IF all the ex-premiership geelong players in Mooney, Scarlett, Corey, Ling, Harley didnt back him. They are 110% behind him and backed him for sure. We are too soft. Way too soft

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am just shattered. Especially after PG standing firm yesterday. This is a knee-jerk reaction to Griffen packing up his bat and ball. I think this is the worst case scenario after Griffen decision to want a trade. Can we recover from this? I really believed Macca was developing and recruiting for the future and teaching a true football culture. We are a shambles of a football club.

To look on the bright side we will have pick 1 in next year's draft.
Hate to say it but its a midfielders draft ;)

[LostDoggy]

All the doom and gloom from you guys
New coach
Tom Boyd/Cameron? ++for 29 yo Griffen
Everybody might be happier next week
Im a bulldog thru and thru
Throw away lines from some leaving the club... definately not true supporters

[Axe Man]

What a horrible 24 hours.

Please let this be the end of the bad news, we can't take any more.

That said my support of the Bulldogs is not dependent on the presence or absence of any individuals. If Ivan Milat is appointed coach and Charles Manson is drafted as an inside midfielder I will endure. I'm no quitter, it will take more than this to bring me down. My love is unconditional.

[whythelongface]

All the doom and gloom from you guys
New coach
Tom Boyd/Cameron? ++for 29 yo Griffen
Everybody might be happier next week
Im a bulldog thru and thru
Throw away lines from some leaving the club... definately not true supporters

Who says that they are leaving the club. Who are you to judge whether they are true supporters or not.

In the heat of the battle people make calls like this - doesn't mean they aren't as passionate about the club as yourself. People are pissed and they have every right to be.

[Webby]

All the doom and gloom from you guys
New coach
Tom Boyd/Cameron? ++for 29 yo Griffen
Everybody might be happier next week
Im a bulldog thru and thru
Throw away lines from some leaving the club... definately not true supporters

Yeah, it's redeemable for me IF Griffen is traded out.
If not, well, I'm signing up a golf membership next year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah, it's redeemable for me IF Griffen is traded out.
If not, well, I'm signing up a golf membership next year.

Cooney and Minson must be traded too. Under no circumstance do I see a position for them.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I might be the odd one out here but I thought PG was as transparent about the events, and the decision making process as you could possibly hope for. Do I agree with the decision they've made?.....No. I feel like they have missed a giant opportunity for cultural change.

Now wait for the assistant coaching exodus.

I'm probably close to this position.

[LostDoggy]

Who says that they are leaving the club. Who are you to judge whether they are true supporters or not.

In the heat of the battle people make calls like this - doesn't mean they aren't as passionate about the club as yourself. People are pissed and they have every right to be.
Seems like Jaytee and The Bulldog Bite have put forward an ultimatum of leaving if Griffen stays

[The Adelaide Connection]

Who says that they are leaving the club. Who are you to judge whether they are true supporters or not.

In the heat of the battle people make calls like this - doesn't mean they aren't as passionate about the club as yourself. People are pissed and they have every right to be.

I think he is referring to some saying that they have switched allegiances to other clubs. But I also take issue with people "throwing in their memberships" because they get a bee in their bonnet (not for financial reasons, that is totally understandable). Our club desperately needs members and you'd think they would have a memory long enough to remember a time when the club nearly went under (or just a few years ago when we won 18 or so games a season for a few years in a row). If they were truly passionate about the club they would want to ensure its survival and contribute financially given the means, no matter how hard things are at present.

There are constructive ways to voice your concerns that don't mean turning your back on the club. Everyone has the right to do the latter, but don't expect full respect from people that would like this club to be around in the long term.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Seems like Jaytee and The Bulldog Bite have put forward an ultimatum of leaving if Griffen stays

Indeed.

My family has poured money into the club for over 20 years, I couldn't care less if a few supporters thought my ultimatum was over the top.

Everybody has a cut off point. This is mine.

[G-Mo77]

So I've been at work and missed the presser. Is Griffen staying?

[Murphy'sLore]

Officially, dunno.

But it seems unlikely.

[Remi Moses]

Just heard the news
I'm guttered.
What a gutless decision
This is why this club will never ever win a flag
Tail wags the dog, always has always will

[G-Mo77]

Officially, dunno.

But it seems unlikely.

Griffen has got to go. Any other players that don't want to be here have got to go. New coach, clean slate, fresh start.

It's a bloody mess!

[LostDoggy]

So I've been at work and missed the presser. Is Griffen staying?

I'll fill you in

PG started talking about Griffen and advising how at the Bulldogs we honour contracts and take them extremeley seriously, despite being at a press conference of the senior coach being shown the door with 2 years left to run on his contract.

The rest was pretty much saying how great Griffen is and the great leadership qualities he has shown throughout this saga.

And some more Griffen love.

[G-Mo77]

I'll fill you in

PG started talking about Griffen and advising how at the Bulldogs we honour contracts and take them extremeley seriously, despite being at a press conference of the senior coach being shown the door with 2 years left to run on his contract.

The rest was pretty much saying how great Griffen is and the great leadership qualities he has shown throughout this saga.

And some more Griffen love.

Yikes, worse than I thought. Thanks mate. I'm trying to piece it altogether. This helps.

[bornadog]

Griffen has got to go. Any other players that don't want to be here have got to go. New coach, clean slate, fresh start.

It's a bloody mess!

Why blame Griffen, there is a long line of players, senior and junior that are not happy. Griffen just represented them as a spokesman.

Listen to the press conference and you will change your mind about the resignation. Basically for 6 months Macca's communication to the players was woeful.

[bornadog]

I'll fill you in

PG started talking about Griffen and advising how at the Bulldogs we honour contracts and take them extremeley seriously, despite being at a press conference of the senior coach being shown the door with 2 years left to run on his contract.

The rest was pretty much saying how great Griffen is and the great leadership qualities he has shown throughout this saga.

And some more Griffen love.

I said it before, when your only A Grade player and captain wants out there are serious problems at the club.

[G-Mo77]

Why blame Griffen, there is a long line of players, senior and junior that are not happy. Griffen just represented them as a spokesman.

Listen to the press conference and you will change your mind about the resignation. Basically for 6 months Macca's communication to the players was woeful.

Griffen threatened to walk out, our captain. I don't blame him for what's happened today although he hasn't helped either. I just can't see how he can continue to play for us after this. How do you come back? He's got to go IMO.

[Remi Moses]

I said it before, when your only A Grade player and captain wants out there are serious problems at the club.

So every time an a grade player wants out the coach should go?

[LostDoggy]

I said it before, when your only A Grade player and captain wants out there are serious problems at the club.

When that same player agrees to and buys into new terms and ways of fixing the issues only to come back days later and ask to be traded... Then there's serious problems with that player.

[Remi Moses]

Griffen threatened to walk out, our captain. I don't blame him for what's happened today although he hasn't helped either. I just can't see how he can continue to play for us after this. How do you come back? He's got to go IMO.

He has to go, and has still made his intention to go .
The club will be a laughing stock of the footy world taking him back.

[KT31]

He has to go, and has still made his intention to go .
The club will be a laughing stock of the footy world taking him back.

To late we already are..

[Happy Days]

I redact my comments from the other thread. In the space of 2 hours we've wrecked everything.

That press conference was as shit as we are.

[whythelongface]

I think he is referring to some saying that they have switched allegiances to other clubs. But I also take issue with people "throwing in their memberships" because they get a bee in their bonnet (not for financial reasons, that is totally understandable). Our club desperately needs members and you'd think they would have a memory long enough to remember a time when the club nearly went under (or just a few years ago when we won 18 or so games a season for a few years in a row). If they were truly passionate about the club they would want to ensure its survival and contribute financially given the means, no matter how hard things are at present.

There are constructive ways to voice your concerns that don't mean turning your back on the club. Everyone has the right to do the latter, but don't expect full respect from people that would like this club to be around in the long term.

Who has said they would switch allegiance to another club? What gets said at times like where your club is potentially self-destructing are often off the cuff remarks. It is not a time to question and make judgement on people's loyalty due to a few remarks made on an internet forum. Again how would you know if one is truly passionate or not about the club simply by a statement during a time of crisis, on an internet forum.

[bornadog]

So every time an a grade player wants out the coach should go?

Where did I say that. Just accept there were problems at the club, otherwise we wouldn't be where we are. You have to be a manager of people, not yell and scream at them. I said this a mo nth ago, but I was shot down by Webby and a few others. if you have ever managed people you would know what I mean.

[bornadog]

Griffen threatened to walk out, our captain. I don't blame him for what's happened today although he hasn't helped either. I just can't see how he can continue to play for us after this. How do you come back? He's got to go IMO.

Personally, I want him to stay, but I can understand how people don't.

[Mofra]

Why blame Griffen, there is a long line of players, senior and junior that are not happy. Griffen just represented them as a spokesman.
How many of those guys lied to the President & Chris Grant, made an agreement 2 days earlier then reneged on it while talking behind the club's back to GWS for months?

I don't know how he can stay.

[chef]

I said it before, when your only A Grade player and captain wants out there are serious problems at the club.
And I guess he's a big part of the problem.

[jeemak]

That was really disappointing. I don't doubt the McCartney communication must have been a significant issue, and I also think more than just a few senior players were affected by it.

However, the Club including the coach, captain and administration committed to changing and should have stayed the course. The President himself acknowledged this issue has only come to light in the last six months. That's less than 20% of the time McCartney has been in the role.

Griffen gets an opportunity to cut loose and go and play for a nobody team in a non-footy suburb and takes it because he can't cope with the focus on him as captain of the Western Bulldogs, particularly knowing a lot of his mates - who have been on the banana lounge big time over the last three years - are on notice and being managed out of the club.

This should not have taken the coach down. Ryan Griffen should have been shown the door for the best possible price, and forgotten by our club for at least the next decade.

If he happens to be playing for the Bulldogs next season, I'm going to find it hard to cheer for him.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm appalled by our actions over the last 24 hours.

I just don't know what to say.

I hope there are more sackings and resignations, and at higher levels. We pack anything resembling strong leadership and have proven ourselves as an unprofessional, spineless Club. I was back in a relatively positive mood this morning, thinking we were finally addressing our cultural problems, but we have done another 180 and now I don't know what we're meant to stand for.

Some supporters will be over the moon with this news, but we now have no coach, no senior players and a weak willed board, CEO and management.

[LostDoggy]

If only Stringer had of taken that mark!

I'm in Japan so have just read that in the space of 24 hours our captain and coach are kaput, gonesky! Don't know how to feel about it all, but at the moment there is a slight sense of ambivalence, with even a sadistic urge for things to get even worse, more players, assistant coaches, president!

i will continue to passionately and support the club as I have for my whole life, always wondering why my grandad couldn't have just barracked for Hawthorn!

[Webby]

Cooney and Minson must be traded too. Under no circumstance do I see a position for them.

Yeah, I agree. Cut the festering sore out.

[Remi Moses]

Personally, I want him to stay, but I can understand how people don't.

So he agrees to jump ship and head to GWS 6 months ago and you want him to stay?
Staggering
Hypothetically speaking if he doesn't like the next coach ( if he stays) it's okay to walk ?

[bornadog]

So he agrees to jump ship and head to GWS 6 months ago and you want him to stay?
Staggering
Hypothetically speaking if he doesn't like the next coach ( if he stays) it's okay to walk ?

Its great your a big fan of Maca, and think he has done everything right at the club, but when multiple players say they can't work with him, not just senior players, but lots of players - surely you can see there were issues.

PG said in his presser, there were issues in the way he communicated to the players for the second half of the year. These players are not precious, you think they can't handle a rocket?? because as Mark Stevens tweeted, the senior players are use to a rocket from Rocket. What is missing with Macca is the way you deliver or communicate to players.

[Remi Moses]

Its great your a big fan of Maca, and think he has done everything right at the club, but when multiple players say they can't work with him, not just senior players, but lots of players - surely you can see there were issues.

PG said in his presser, there were issues in the way he communicated to the players for the second half of the year. These players are not precious, you think they can't handle a rocket?? because as Mark Stevens tweeted, the senior players are use to a rocket from Rocket. What is missing with Macca is the way you deliver or communicate to players.

So if he couldn't communicate to the players, how on earth did our young players have such great years?
The older players have to show some accountability for underperformance, and not just blame the coach and bang on about his lack of communication . Our senior blokes have been sitting on a Caribbean beach sipping cocktails the last few years, and have taken exception at being questioned for the non contribution for the season.
How do you explain Griffen's carry on ? Everything's okay then returns and asks to be traded.
Mate I get it that you're a players man foremost, but just occasionally can you see that just maybe the players have to hold some accountability to what went on .

[LostDoggy]

Devastated.

On holidays for the past week and it's been a steady progression of increasingly bad news each time I checked the phone for a news update. First fringe players, then good players, then marquee players wanting to leave the club ...now the coach is gone ...arrgh.

Staggered at how quickly things have turned around. Previously seemed the players were genuinely behind macca and he was attracting others (Stevens, crameri).

Don't think Macca is completely blameless. His communication and relationship with the senior players obviously wasn't what it should have been probably as a result of workload and the pressure he was putting on himself to drive the club forward. Sounds like he needed more support.

Still I really liked him, thought he was moving the club in the right direction and am really disappointed that he's gone.

[bornadog]

So if he couldn't communicate to the players, how on earth did our young players have such great years?
The older players have to show some accountability for underperformance, and not just blame the coach and bang on about his lack of communication . Our senior blokes have been sitting on a Caribbean beach sipping cocktails the last few years, and have taken exception at being questioned for the non contribution for the season.
How do you explain Griffen's carry on ? Everything's okay then returns and asks to be traded.
Mate I get it that you're a players man foremost, but just occasionally can you see that just maybe the players have to hold some accountability to what went on .

I am not a players man, I am a club man. The coach can't coach and I am glad he is out.

[BulldogBelle]

Based on all that's transpired, why didn't the committee sack him after the review? We talk about accountability and performance, but to me it's the committee that is under performing. Backflips and spin covering their lack of control over what's going on in their own club. If BMAC didn't resign, would they have sacked him? They have taken the easy path each time. We'll end up getting GWS 's second round pick and nothing else at this rate.

[chef]

I am not a players man, I am a club man. The coach can't coach and I am glad he is out.

And leaders who cannot lead.

[bornadog]

And leaders who cannot lead.

Time for young leaders to come through. Roughead for captain

[chef]

Time for young leaders to come through. Roughead for captain
Yep and for the old to go.

[BulldogBelle]

And leaders who cannot lead.

Cannot help but agree. The coach isn't the only one that should be cleaning out his office today. Port Adelaide setting the standard ...look at them now!

[BulldogBelle]

Yep and for the old to go.

Don't be too hasty. Morris and Murphy deserve better than that.

[LostDoggy]

Would love to know what Gia's thoughts are on this.

Is he with the players or the coach as he has seen both sides due to him sitting in with the coaches and being coached by Macca.

[always right]

I'm wondering how we attract players from other clubs when they don't even know who the coach will be.

[azabob]

I'm wondering how we attract players from other clubs when they don't even know who the coach will be.

We will struggle big time.

[ReLoad]

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing ever to happen to our club.

So what happens now that we have pandered to the old cronies?
How do we keep hold of the kids who Macca was turning into legends?byhe ones who got what he was doing? The ones he was sticking up for?
The Bont will want out like griffin?

All they have done is removed any sort of conviction our club had.

Utterly disgusted.

I love Turtle and PG. they bleed Bulldogs but this is seriously shit. Sorry boys if you cannot see through with the plan then it's time to go. - I can't believe I just said that! :(

[The Adelaide Connection]

Who has said they would switch allegiance to another club? What gets said at times like where your club is potentially self-destructing are often off the cuff remarks. It is not a time to question and make judgement on people's loyalty due to a few remarks made on an internet forum. Again how would you know if one is truly passionate or not about the club simply by a statement during a time of crisis, on an internet forum.

There has been one poster on here that I have seen and several on Facebook state exactly that.

I would argue that if people don't have the emotional intelligence to control their typing when they are a bit frustrated then they need to be accountable for that, it is not up to those reading their comments to censor for them as they read.

If someone comes on and rants that they are "tearing up their memberships" then on face value, in my opinion, they are less loyal and they will lose a certain amount of respect from those that would renew their memberships (if financially able) no matter what the crappy circumstances.

[bornadog]

I'm wondering how we attract players from other clubs when they don't even know who the coach will be.

Will be hard, so we just have to go to draft

[G-Mo77]

I'm wondering how we attract players from other clubs when they don't even know who the coach will be.

Just mentioned this in conversation about 10 minutes ago. Not just no coach but such an unattractive environment. I wouldn't want to play for us.

Picks, picks and picks. We've got to start this climb again.

[whythelongface]

There has been one poster on here that I have seen and several on Facebook state exactly that.

I would argue that if people don't have the emotional intelligence to control their typing when they are a bit frustrated then they need to be accountable for that, it is not up to those reading their comments to censor for them as they read.

If someone comes on and rants that they are "tearing up their memberships" then on face value, in my opinion, they are less loyal and they will lose a certain amount of respect from those that would renew their memberships (if financially able) no matter what the crappy circumstances.

Sorry the Facebook page is seriously pathetic and I refuse to read comments from there as it is full of trolls.

WOOFers are a bit more measured and I think you can cut someone some slack if they go a bit over the top on the odd occassion. It is their little protest and they are entitled to that viewpoint surely.

Anyway we will agree to disagree.

[bull79]

Instead of concentrating on trading for key players or picks & making our club attractive to coaching staff & potential players, we have to listen to this crap play out! I'm very disappointed in Griffin & other seniors! Get rid of the assholes who put us in this position!
Thank You Macca for trying to put us in the right direction, sorry to see you go.

[BulldogBelle]

Instead of concentrating on trading for key players or picks & making our club attractive to coaching staff & potential players, we have to listen to this crap play out! I'm very disappointed in Griffin & other seniors! Get rid of the assholes who put us in this position!
Thank You Macca for trying to put us in the right direction, sorry to see you go.

So the question is, who are the a- holes that put us in this position??

[KT31]

One thing that has irked me with this is how poorly it has been handled by all involved.
The writing apparently has been on the wall for a couple of months now, very poor to bring it to the fore in trade week.
If Griff wanted to leave it should have been decided weeks ago,If Cooney, Dahl or any others wanted to leave it should have been sorted weeks ago, if Macca was not going to coach it should have been decided weeks ago.
Now I understand the domino or butterfly effect but this did not happen overnight and it seems to me it has a sniff of ' let sleeping dogs lie'.
Now we trying to trade without a coach, captain or a paddle.

[LostDoggy]

I'm wondering how we attract players from other clubs when they don't even know who the coach will be.

Don't even waste our time in trying to get players, just go for drafts. We will have 2 inside top 10 at a minimum.

[boydogs]

An agreement is an agreement? Did Peter Gordon seriously just say that at a press conference were BMaC agreement has been torn up?

I was thinking the same thing. I was surprised one of the journos didn't call him on it

[Ozza]

I was thinking the same thing. I was surprised one of the journos didn't call him on it

Because then the immediate reply is 'he has resigned'. (Obviously we know it wasn't purely a resignation....but it's the club line).

[boydogs]

Because then the immediate reply is 'he has resigned'. (Obviously we know it wasn't purely a resignation....but it's the club line).

He tripped up on that one as well.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-10-10/gordon-garlick-field-press-questions-part-1

0:40 - A contract is a contract, during a press conference sacking a coach contracted for 2 more years

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-10-10/gordon-garlick-field-press-questions-part-2

1:45 - "We have made a judgment as senior management and the board to make a change, Macca's agreed with that"

2:15 - "It formed part of the evidence on which we made a decision"

[jeemak]

Griffen moving on to go to GWS as a contracted player is not the same as the club suggesting McCartney should resign and McCartney subsequently resigning, from a contractual perspective.

One scenario has mutual agreement, while the other doesn't. It's a non-argument, irrespective of the moral point of view one might want to bring into the debate.

There's no contradiction at all, and of all people PG would know that.

[bornadog]

Griffen moving on to go to GWS as a contracted player is not the same as the club suggesting McCartney should resign and McCartney subsequently resigning, from a contractual perspective.

One scenario has mutual agreement, while the other doesn't. It's a non-argument, irrespective of the moral point of view one might want to bring into the debate.

There's no contradiction at all, and of all people PG would know that.

There were also clauses in Macca's contract which meant we would never pay him out for the remainder of his contract.

[ratsmac]

Cameron Ling tweeted this

After 3 seasons, Macca 20wins 46 losses v Clarko 28wins 40 losses. Dogs baulk v Hawks didn't. Average club v great club. Success takes time.

I have to agree with Cameron on this one.

[ratsmac]

Actually I might add to the Bulldogs defence that the Hawks didn't have their captain entertain treason and up and leave did they.

[Mantis]

Cameron Ling tweeted this

After 3 seasons, Macca 20wins 46 losses v Clarko 28wins 40 losses. Dogs baulk v Hawks didn't. Average club v great club. Success takes time.

I have to agree with Cameron on this one.

Ling is an A grade flog and shouldn't be allowed to come into our rooms... Has always been on the B-Mac bandwagon and has let his emotion cloud his judgement on this one.

And were Hawthorn a great club in 2007? Easy in hindsight.

[Rocket Science]

Brendan McCartney post-departure interview about to air shortly on ABC Grandstand for anyone interested.

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/player/?station=grandstand

[Remi Moses]

Hawks made the eight in his third year, and we're on the way up.
Silly comparison

[Topdog]

Hawks made the eight in his third year, and we're on the way up.
Silly comparison

Love the twisting of a good stat

[Sedat]

After 3 seasons, Macca 20wins 46 losses v Clarko 28wins 40 losses. Dogs baulk v Hawks didn't. Average club v great club. Success takes time.

Terrible comparison from Ling. Hawthorn made finals and won a final in Clarko's third year and then won the flag in his 4th year. Irrespective, his comparison had Clarko 8 wins ahead of BMac at the same stage of which the differential was 7 of wins alone in year 3. By his demented logic, BMac would have won the flag with us next year.

If only Sydney could have taken both Ling and Harley, that way both of them would not have bored us shitless with their moronic drivel on Ch 7 Friday nights

[G-Mo77]

He tripped up on that one as well.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-10-10/gordon-garlick-field-press-questions-part-1

0:40 - A contract is a contract, during a press conference sacking a coach contracted for 2 more years

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-10-10/gordon-garlick-field-press-questions-part-2

1:45 - "We have made a judgment as senior management and the board to make a change, Macca's agreed with that"

2:15 - "It formed part of the evidence on which we made a decision"

I love that one.

[Mofra]

Its great your a big fan of Maca, and think he has done everything right at the club, but when multiple players say they can't work with him, not just senior players, but lots of players - surely you can see there were issues.

PG said in his presser, there were issues in the way he communicated to the players for the second half of the year. These players are not precious, you think they can't handle a rocket?? because as Mark Stevens tweeted, the senior players are use to a rocket from Rocket. What is missing with Macca is the way you deliver or communicate to players.
Forget the coaching issue for a moment.

Are you actually so quickly willing to forgive the captain of the club for spending 6 months talking to another club about a trade, and lying to both the president and to Chris Grant?

[boydogs]

Hawks made the eight in his third year, and we're on the way up.
Silly comparison

Yeah I noticed Clarkson had coached 2 extra games. 8 wins more is nothing to sneeze at either

[LostDoggy]

All the doom and gloom from you guys
New coach
Tom Boyd/Cameron? ++for 29 yo Griffen
Everybody might be happier next week
Im a bulldog thru and thru
Throw away lines from some leaving the club... definately not true supporters
Hate so say this but one week and a cool head makes a big difference
Tony lockett part 2

[Bulldog4life]

Haven't got the link to it but it was emailed to me by my sister. Article by Jon Ralph.

"Brendan McCartney’s expectations and assessments of his players when he was coach of the Western Bulldogs were too personal and cost him his job, says the Herald Sun’s Jon Ralph.
His reputation as a tough leader was always well known but it seems the 53 year-old became an unpopular figure at the Whitten Oval after questioning the personalities of various players.
“So, basically the things that he said to them were game-changers, they irreparably damaged that relationship.
“Maybe he just snapped and felt that he had had enough.
“He said things to Adam Cooney and Will Minson that were insults that rocked them to the core,” Ralph explained on Hungry for Sport.
It was initially thought that players were unjustifiably whinging because they were unhappy with the McCartney’s particularly harsh evaluations in their end of season exit interviews.
A former Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade was famous for his demanding and fiery character but the senior players felt McCartney took it a step too far.
“It’s not only the senior players, some of the younger players love him but others felt like he was too tough.
“What some of the senior players are saying is that we can accept sprays, but he basically ripped into their personalities.”
Those players who took offence to the negative feedback clearly made their issues with McCartney known to senior figures at the club and ultimately led to his ‘resignation’.
“If someone rips into the core of your being, it’s pretty hard to come back from that.
“He attacked their personalities, and attacked them as people.
“So those players asked how they overcome that, this is the person I am at 30 years of age.”

[hujsh]

Hard to know what to think without more specific examples. How personal could the criticism be?

[Rocket Science]

The venom suggested doesn't exactly correlate with a guy who's been a fairly effective manager of men for two decades.

Though it correlates perfectly with the current 'Dogs are a train wreck' narrative.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There are some fairly nasty rumours floating around on BF. Some by reliable posters....obviously could be made up but proof could be in the pudding

[bornadog]

I have said it before, there are ways to rip into people and there are ways that go way beyond on how to handle a person. We are all different and respond in different ways.

Whether true or not, MACCA certainly has done things that cost him his job.

We heard similar stories about McKenna at GCS, ripping into Harbrow and telling him in front of everyone he cost the Bulldogs a place in the GF.

One thing in the article that is true, Rocket did get stuck into players but knew where to draw the line.

[Throughandthrough]

There are some fairly nasty rumours floating around on BF. Some by reliable posters....obviously could be made up but proof could be in the pudding

Humour me, like what?

[Greystache]

Some of the comments are well known and the response from some of the players goes to show Macca was on the money.

- Lack of preparedness to play team football
- Unwillingness to run two ways
- Unsupportive of younger team mates
- Expect everyone to pour adulation on them for what they believe they've achieved and don't give anything back.
- Elitist and all round quite selfish

Pretty much all the things the Bulldogs culture has been accused of for 30 years.

[bornadog]

Some of the comments are well known and the response from some of the players goes to show Macca was on the money.

- Lack of preparedness to play team football
- Unwillingness to run two ways
- Unsupportive of younger team mates
- Expect everyone to pour adulation on them for what they believe they've achieved and don't give anything back.
- Elitist and all round quite selfish

Pretty much all the things the Bulldogs culture has been accused of for 30 years.

Too bad he didn't know how to deliver his message.

[Greystache]

Too bad he didn't know how to deliver his message.

There's only one way to deliver that message, too bad people didn't want to hear it.

[Sedat]

We heard similar stories about McKenna at GCS, ripping into Harbrow and telling him in front of everyone he cost the Bulldogs a place in the GF.
I've never been a McKenna fan and this misinformed drivel just reinforces this. Harbrow was one of our best players in both the 2008 and 2009 PF's. If you're going to sledge someone, actually know what the hell you are talking about.

[bulldogtragic]

I just realised on the AFL app (through Telstra TV) you can watch the press conferences from the last 4-5 years. Having some time to burn, I watched the the presser from the 2014 loss to GWS which was obviously BMacs last one. If you have some time and an interest in the macabre, it's worth watching.

With the power of hindsight, it's a very interesting thing to watch. The responses from BMac may have just pushed his own fate with some of the players. I get he was disappointed, but it seemed pretty heavy handed in what could've been said privately. Gia was sitting next to him in the presser (his last game as a player), and some of his body language to some of the responses I read as 'leave me out of this press pack, I don't endorse it'. I wonder what effect, if any, this had on things that transpired and whether BMac would have been as he was, if Stringer held the mark late and we won by a few points? I also wonder with the arse kicking BMac got from Gordon over the Macrae public comments (about 6 weeks earlier), and his apology over same, were then seen as a pattern of a guy that wasn't going to change or another reinforcing thing to players that they wouldn't play for bloke that did the dirty laundry publicly?

Often the comparison is made between BMac & Bevo for coaching, tactics, game style, ethos, culture etc. But watching it I began to compare them in a small part as ambassadors for the club &/or players, but moreso the public defence or non-comments a coach goes to that makes a coach a so called 'players coach'. With a shoe string budget, I wonder if BMac had the right amount of media training and his thoughts spewed out inadvertently or whether he actually thought he had to do things publicly. I'm not potting BMac despite appearances, but as much as at times I've wanted Bevo to sometimes go a little harder after average results, from the perspective of being the leader/mouth piece/defender in chief of the players I'm happy, and I guess the players would be for the most part that strong dressing downs happen inside the walls and not in front of the media pack.

As I say, I thought it was really interesting watching as the last media event before the events, that well, led to a premiership 2 years later.

[jeemak]

BMac was no idiot and was a decent developer of talent compared what Eade was at the end of his time, but he himself realised at the end his hard lined messaging was genuine gun to the head stuff with those he wanted out of the club, without understanding the impact it would have on the rest of the playing group.

He was always going to get rid of the likes of Cooney and Lake for next to nicks, alongside others like Jones to break the playing group, but I don't think however he'd have gotten rid of Higgins or Griffen if given the choice.

A lot is made about our young players like Stringer contacting Peter Gordon at the end of 2014 and telling him what they thought about the culture of the club at the time, I'm still fifty fifty as to whether that was about the playing group or the coaching.

Jacko is on record as saying his dropping by Bmac was the best thing for him at the time. Jacko had no issue with it and he's now a genuine tough nut gun. Irrespective of whether Peter Gordon pulled his skirt over his own head as a result of Bmac's comments over that particular incident is irrelevant. Jacko is a better player than he was, and pretty much as good as he could be, and Peter isn't the messiah. If you listen to the latter enough, you realise he says just as many silly things as you read on this forum week in and week out to balance out the good things he says.

Luckily for us he nails the things required to be a good president for us aside from that.

[bornadog]

BT, I will look at that press conference out of interest. I have read through most of the comments in this thread and had a good laugh. The doom and gloom was over the top. It was just another coach being sacked, happens all the time.

This was the best post of the read


For what it is worth, we have to make it seem like we're trying to hold onto Griffen if we want to get the most out of GWS.

And there has been a sense for awhile that BMac is not as good at "managing men" as advertised. I mean, it should never have come to this, and it is the coach's role to deal with feuds and similar tensions between players.

Basically it is shambolic at the moment, but the club needs us to stick with them, so I'll put back on my Bulldogs glasses and try and look at this with some optimism.

Hopefully Dalrymple and Monty (presumably they are in charge at the moment) work some magic, ransack GWS for Griffen, I get a new avatar, a new coach comes in who melds the group together while making sure that the youngsters are empowered, and we become a flag-winning dynasty.

(I really don't want to think about the possibility of Griffen staying.)

I never ever thought Macca was suited to being a senior coach. He may be a good developer of players, but the senior role is poles apart from just developing.

I am so happy the events took place back in October 2014. No Pain, No gain. :)

[bulldogtragic]

Nice work by Raw Toast. Keep a look at Gia for body language and that it never seems to really support what's being said next to him (no nodding of head etc).

Amazing to think if Stringer holds that easy mark with 30 seconds to go, how different things might be.

[The Pie Man]

Nice work by Raw Toast. Keep a look at Gia for body language and that it never seems to really support what's being said next to him (no nodding of head etc).

Amazing to think if Stringer holds that easy mark with 30 seconds to go, how different things might be.

I love a good sliding door analogy, though you suspect the tone of the end of season reviews would've remained the same if we had somehow won that GWS game, which from all accounts were a bit of a last straw.

Gee that game had a whiff about it. Anyway.

Oh and the suggestion that Macrae was better for the public spray from Macca - couldn't disagree more.

[bornadog]

Nice work by Raw Toast. Keep a look at Gia for body language and that it never seems to really support what's being said next to him (no nodding of head etc).

Amazing to think if Stringer holds that easy mark with 30 seconds to go, how different things might be.

Watch the Press Conference here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-08-31/mccartney-post-match-press-conference-rd23)

[bulldogtragic]

"We even invented (mistakes, to lose)"
"We haven't played good footy, or trained all that well (for the last 5 or 6 weeks)" - The time of the Macrae stuff, or something bigger?
"They'll be a lot of emotional reactions... to what we dished up (this game)"

Gia doing his hair a few times, while not really paying too much to answers. :D

I'm really intrigued by the training comment. The players didn't train well for 5-6 weeks. How does that happen (or what caused it) and Moreso how does the reasoning for that seemingly go unnoticed by the bigger powers?

[bornadog]

"We even invented (mistakes, to lose)"
"We haven't played good footy, or trained all that well (for the last 5 or 6 weeks)" - The time of the Macrae stuff, or something bigger?
"They'll be a lot of emotional reactions... to what we dished up (this game)"

Gia doing his hair a few times, while not really paying too much to answers. :D

I'm really intrigued by the training comment. The players didn't train well for 5-6 weeks. How does that happen (or what caused it) and Moreso how does the reasoning for that seemingly go unnoticed by the bigger powers?

Obviously lots of problems between Coach and players if they are not training well.

[bulldogtragic]

Obviously lots of problems between Coach and players if they are not training well.

If you're not going to train for the coach, you're not going to play for the coach. How did Garlick and others not see it, or hear it?

To the many others that all watch the coach pressers too, how did we miss a big red flag like that? And why did it need saying? Why does the media need to be told about it? Surely training and Enthusism in the playing group is a matter for internal review.

[soupman]

Two posts I found rather interesting.


Cameron Ling tweeted this

After 3 seasons, Macca 20wins 46 losses v Clarko 28wins 40 losses. Dogs baulk v Hawks didn't. Average club v great club. Success takes time.

I have to agree with Cameron on this one.
Ling would feel a little stupid with this comment now, although it does seem on par with the accuracy and cheerleading of most of his work.


Some of the comments are well known and the response from some of the players goes to show Macca was on the money.

- Lack of preparedness to play team football
- Unwillingness to run two ways
- Unsupportive of younger team mates
- Expect everyone to pour adulation on them for what they believe they've achieved and don't give anything back.
- Elitist and all round quite selfish

Pretty much all the things the Bulldogs culture has been accused of for 30 years.

Interestingly less than two years after that we:
-Are the absolute ideal "team football" side, relying on everyone contributing and maximum effort to win games.
-We work incredibly hard both offensively and defensively
-The group is as tight knit a side as I've ever seen and young players are thriving
-Don't seem particularly arrogant and seem to be saying all the right things about wanting to stick together
-Often discussed how everyone at the club is equal and it's all about the team

*Not trying to shame either poster quoted, my views were much the same at the time. Just makes interesting reading.

[jeemak]

It's a moot point, but I wonder what Bevo might have been able to do with the same players, i.e., whether he'd have been able to turn the attitude around.

Actually, I wonder if he'd have even put his hand up for the job if they were still there.

[The Pie Man]

The unsupportive of young team mates etc thing sounds like it was aimed at an Adam Cooney type. If I'm right, then my guess is that's the kind of feedback that was overdue. I get his knee was shot, but after focusing on him at a few games (just not running once the ball was lost or kicked away from where he was) and hearing rumors of divisive behavior, I wasn't unhappy he left.

The senior members still around don't seem like those personalities. We hung onto the right guys, and a few of them got a flag out of it.



I wonder though if that was the first time it was brought up? To say were hadn't been training well for over a month at a press conference is an indictment on the coaching staff as much as the playing group. I watched the Open Mike with Dal Santo this week with interest, and his comments on Ross Lyon were quite interesting - in that he could understand why players on the fringe of a Ross Lyon team would hate him as he'd use them as witches hats at training and pretty much ignore them while having beers/socialising with the senior group when time permitted. Couldn't imagine Bevo doing anything remotely similar

[The Doctor]

Why do this to yourselves?

[bulldogtragic]

Why do this to yourselves?

After the Premiership this doesn't sting for me anymore. Having an unemotional conversation about the issues fom that presser I find interesting in the context of what's since happened, if not even a little cathartic.

[comrade]

For what it is worth, we have to make it seem like we're trying to hold onto Griffen if we want to get the most out of GWS.

And there has been a sense for awhile that BMac is not as good at "managing men" as advertised. I mean, it should never have come to this, and it is the coach's role to deal with feuds and similar tensions between players.

Basically it is shambolic at the moment, but the club needs us to stick with them, so I'll put back on my Bulldogs glasses and try and look at this with some optimism.

Hopefully Dalrymple and Monty (presumably they are in charge at the moment) work some magic, ransack GWS for Griffen, I get a new avatar, a new coach comes in who melds the group together while making sure that the youngsters are empowered, and we become a flag-winning dynasty.

(I really don't want to think about the possibility of Griffen staying.)

The oracle!

[The Pie Man]

Why do this to yourselves?

Am following the WB 1997 twitter feed - they 'live' tweeted the Hawthorn Chris Grant game the other week. Wondered that very thing to myself at the time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

After the Premiership this doesn't sting for me anymore. Having an unemotional conversation about the issues fom that presser I find interesting in the context of what's since happened, if not even a little cathartic.

The flag has wiped it all out for me. Even 97.

[The Pie Man]

Just read through this thread - the Sunday after the prelim last year I reflected on how ridiculous it was we'd made a GF from this position.

Also found the comment from a Geelong fan early in this thread about 'the list can play' very interesting.

On previous blown opportunities - they still hurt....just not as much.

[Remi Moses]

Am following the WB 1997 twitter feed - they 'live' tweeted the Hawthorn Chris Grant game the other week. Wondered that very thing to myself at the time.

Also following , I love it . We we're genuinely hated then, and it's getting a bit that way now .
See on Bartlett's show that try hard footy shock jock Greg Denham is at it again ! Whipping up a frenzy on the 4 goals Sydney were robbed in the GF.

[Twodogs]

Also following , I love it . We we're genuinely hated then, and it's getting a bit that way now .
See on Bartlett's show that try hard footy shock jock Greg Denham is at it again ! Whipping up a frenzy on the 4 goals Sydney were robbed in the GF.


Did I miss the one they had overturned? Denham is a blowhard, another footy journo told me that he only goes to the footy 3 or 4 times a year.

[jeemak]

Also following , I love it . We we're genuinely hated then, and it's getting a bit that way now .
See on Bartlett's show that try hard footy shock jock Greg Denham is at it again ! Whipping up a frenzy on the 4 goals Sydney were robbed in the GF.

I love this line of argument. It completely ignores the ball going back to the middle after the first goal and changing the future.

[bulldogtragic]

I love this line of argument. It completely ignores the ball going back to the middle after the first goal and changing the future.

Don't let simple 3yo logic get in the way of a public statement I say.

[Twodogs]

I love this line of argument. It completely ignores the ball going back to the middle after the first goal and changing the future.

No, but yeah, but just no.