I don't know if I have the strength anymore...

[westdog54]

I honestly don't.

Almost 30 years of following this club, through 7 prelim final defeats, fightback, the turmoil of 96 and the resulting name change, and the instability of the Peter Rhode era, and I saw it all through with a smile on my face.

Even last night, I was applauding Gordon's aggressive stance on Ryan Griffen's request for a trade, thinking to myself, 'thank god, we're finally putting our faith in the coach and a longer term plan'.

And now, before midday, its all gone to shit.

I'm now wondering what the club stands for.

I'm wondering whether the board is prepared to act in the longer term interest of the club.

I'm wondering how it gets to a stage where a disgruntled group of players can unceremoniously oust the coach.

I'm wondering whether the hard work put in by our recruiting staff, led by an on-fire Simon Dalrymple who has smashed the last two drafts out of the park, will be all for nothing.

My kids are 4 and 2. They've just started to come with me to games. I'm now seriously wondering what I am getting them into. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind for the last 10 years.

And the scary thing is, I'm not sure what the club can do to turn me around.

I know we have guys like Stringer, Macrae, Libba, Bonti, all with their best footy ahead of them. I geniunely pity them today.

I'm a far cry right now from the 14 year old kid that left the 97 prelim holding back tears and didn't say a word for another day.

Forget fightback. This is the darkest day in our club's history. I can't even bring myself to call us a proud club anymore.

That's how bad it is.

I'm hoping that between now and March, something happens that reignites the blind faith I've run with for 30 years.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Sedat]

Forget fightback. This is the darkest day in our club's history. I can't even bring myself to call us a proud club anymore.
This is nothing compared to fightback. Sure I'm embarrassed by our club's lack of leadership - we have shown ourselves to fail the litmus test once again when the heat was turned up. But thinking rationally (I've done a bit of that lately), an ordinary match day coach is no longer in charge, we will have a significantly regenerated coaching staff, and all things being equal we will also have a significantly regenerated playing list with lashings of elite talent brought into the club via the ND.

[1eyedog]

This is nothing compared to fightback. Sure I'm embarrassed by our club's lack of leadership - we have shown ourselves to fail the litmus test once again when the heat was turned up. But thinking rationally (I've done a bit of that lately), an ordinary match day coach is no longer in charge, we will have a significantly regenerated coaching staff, and all things being equal we will also have a significantly regenerated playing list with lashing of elite talent brought to the club in the ND.

Yep fightback was like a plague had descended on the Western Oval and this is nothing in comparison to walking around rattling tins watching old ladies cry in the street.

[LostDoggy]

This is nothing compared to fightback. Sure I'm embarrassed by our club's lack of leadership - we have shown ourselves to fail the litmus test once again when the heat was turned up. But thinking rationally (I've done a bit of that lately), an ordinary match day coach is no longer in charge, we will have a significantly regenerated coaching staff, and all things being equal we will also have a significantly regenerated playing list with lashing of elite talent brought to the club in the ND.

You, good sir, sell optimism far better than I at the moment.

I hope you're right. I'm telling myself "Sedat is usually right, he's not as reactive as others, believe him, we'll be ok". I don't know. The only thing more basket case than our club right now is how I feel about it.

[Mofra]

Fightback had the club united - this time it's ourselves tearing the club apart.

What do we stand for? I have no idea anymore - a few absolute heart and soul players getting screwed over by self-interested prima donnas who adopt an individual first, team second attitude?

I'm really not sure.

[whythelongface]

This is nothing compared to fightback. Sure I'm embarrassed by our club's lack of leadership - we have shown ourselves to fail the litmus test once again when the heat was turned up. But thinking rationally (I've done a bit of that lately), an ordinary match day coach is no longer in charge, we will have a significantly regenerated coaching staff, and all things being equal we will also have a significantly regenerated playing list with lashings of elite talent brought into the club via the ND.


Sounds promising Sedat. Can you run our marketing campaign for next year?

[Sedat]

You, good sir, sell optimism far better than I at the moment.

I hope you're right. I'm telling myself "Sedat is usually right, he's not as reactive as others, believe him, we'll be ok". I don't know. The only thing more basket case than our club right now is how I feel about it.
My 'optimism' (or more accurately, my neutral stance to today's news) will take a dramatic shift downward if we hold onto these senior dissenters. The current situation still presents us with a precious GWS/GC style opportunity to add significant talent to our list for an assault on the competition from 2018-2022. If we fail to grasp this opportunity (and today's decision doesn't change the landscape at all from a list management perspective), I will be as disappointed and angry at the club as many fans rightfully are today.

[LostDoggy]

My 'optimism' (or more accurately, my neutral stance to today's news) will take a dramatic shift downward if we hold onto these senior dissenters. The current situation still presents us with a precious GWS/GC style opportunity to add significant talent to our list for an assault on the competition from 2018-2022. If we fail to grasp this opportunity (and today's decision doesn't change the landscape at all from a list management perspective), I will be as disappointed and angry at the club as many fans rightfully are today.

What if there are "junior dissenters" also? Should they go? Or can they be turned around by a new coach and club shakeup?

[G-Mo77]

Fightback had the club united - this time it's ourselves tearing the club apart.

What do we stand for? I have no idea anymore - a few absolute heart and soul players getting screwed over by self-interested prima donnas who adopt an individual first, team second attitude?

I'm really not sure.

It's hard right now. Our supporter base is fractured and this didn't mend it there are even more fractures now. I fear for what is ahead next season and beyond. It's going to take a ton of repair work from the club to get the supporters and most importantly members back behind the club 100% A lot of us will just grin and bare it but I'm sure even the most one eyed Bulldog fan out there is very concerned right now.

[1eyedog]

It's hard right now. Our supporter base is fractured and this didn't mend it there are even more fractures now. I fear for what is ahead next season and beyond. It's going to take a ton of repair work from the club to get the supporters and most importantly members back behind the club 100% A lot of us will just grin and bare it but I'm sure even the most one eyed Bulldog fan out there is very concerned right now.

Yes, I am :confused:

[westdog54]

Fightback had the club united - this time it's ourselves tearing the club apart. What do we stand for? I have no idea anymore - a few absolute heart and soul players getting screwed over by self-interested prima donnas who adopt an individual first, team second attitude?

I'm really not sure.

There it is. That's the reply I was looking for to Sedat's well articulated point.

I think what this whole sorry episode has illustrated that elite players aren't everything for an AFL club. They're the tip of the iceberg.

[bornadog]

What if there are "junior dissenters" also? Should they go? Or can they be turned around by a new coach and club shakeup?

and there are. I know Talia wanted out but was told no.

[bulldogtragic]

Exactly WD. This is devastating.

[bornadog]

This is nothing compared to fightback. Sure I'm embarrassed by our club's lack of leadership - we have shown ourselves to fail the litmus test once again when the heat was turned up. But thinking rationally (I've done a bit of that lately), an ordinary match day coach is no longer in charge, we will have a significantly regenerated coaching staff, and all things being equal we will also have a significantly regenerated playing list with lashings of elite talent brought into the club via the ND.

Good Post Sedat.

The disappointing thing is we didn't do something about this a month ago when the same thing at Adelaide was dealt with quick smart, when they also realised they had a coach out of his depth.

[Sedat]

The disappointing thing is we didn't do something about this a month ago when the same thing at Adelaide was dealt with quick smart, when they also realised they had a coach out of his depth.
I actually thought Adelaide's handling of the Sanderson situation was a shambles and completely confirms that the players and Ricciuto run the show there.

I always like it when a club handles a tricky situation carefully and doesn't rush into any decision - it appears as though we've done this, but the last 24 hours has done much to dispel that.

[chef]

Wouldn't gave made a difference in terms of Griffen wanting out as he's been flirting with GWS for 6 months.

[angelopetraglia]

I'm struggling. Really struggling. But I love this club, in good times (rare ... very rare) and in bad times. I'm devastated ... didn't sleep last night. I have been a member since 1984. Like many here, I have been to seven losing prelims. I'm not jumping off the ship now. It can turn quickly but we have to get some very important decisions right in the next few weeks. I'm backing Chris Grant and Peter Gordon to get them right.

One week is a long time in footy ....

[Bulldog4life]

I've see favourite sons Teddy get the sack and I've seen Charlie get the sack yet the Club has survived. We will survive this too.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well I have followed the club through many traumas.

I am really disappointed in the events of the last 24 hours, but it is time to move forward and treat it as an opportunity.

Things work out for the best when you make the best of how things work out.

[Ghost Dog]

Tall forward, tall forward!

[Remi Moses]

Got the strength, but the club has to rid the cancer out of the club .
Talking about the senior agitators, and I'd doubt we'd be an attractive proposition for a coach if they remain .

[bornadog]

Got the strength, but the club has to rid the cancer out of the club .
Talking about the senior agitators, and I'd doubt we'd be an attractive proposition for a coach if they remain .

What about the younger agitators - get rid of them as well.

[Remi Moses]

What about the younger agitators - get rid of them as well.

What on earth are you on about?
Mate just for bloody once get your duffle coat and beanie off and smell the roses.
Do you honestly think it's an environment a new coach is going to want to enter?
He's going to be looking over his shoulder the whole time .

[chef]

What about the younger agitators - get rid of them as well.

Maybe with decent leadership they might know better.

[SonofScray]

The fans make the Club. So long as we stick fat and are up for the fight, the sun will come up tomorrow. This too, shall pass.

[bornadog]

What on earth are you on about?
Mate just for bloody once get your duffle coat and beanie off and smell the roses.
Do you honestly think it's an environment a new coach is going to want to enter?
He's going to be looking over his shoulder the whole time .

What I am talking about it wasn't just senior players not happy there were younger players not happy.

[Greystache]

What about the younger agitators - get rid of them as well.

That's just remour, I don't listen to rumour.

[chef]

What I am talking about it wasn't just senior players not happy there were younger players not happy.

I thought you didn't listen to rumours?

[bornadog]

I thought you didn't listen to rumours?

Not what I have heard.

I don't get why people refuse to believe there have been MAJOR ISSUES at the club and its not just 4 senior players running 44.

The coach is gone over this issue, if it were four players then get rid of those four and keep the coach.

[chef]

Not what I have heard.

I don't get why people refuse to believe there have been MAJOR ISSUES at the club and its not just 4 senior players running 44.

The coach is gone over this issue, if it were four players then get rid of those four and keep the coach.

What do you know?

Obviously after the events of the last 2 days we have HUGE issues at our club. I'm sure theres a dozen players unhappy and which is fair enough after the season we had(if they were all happy with their lot after the crap they dished to end this season up I'd be more annoyed).

[bornadog]

+
Obviously after the events of the last 2 days we have HUGE issues at our club. I'm sure theres a dozen players unhappy and which is fair enough after the season we had(if they were all happy with their lot after the crap they dished to end this season up I'd be more annoyed).

Exactly, we can all direct our blame to Griffen, but you have to think there is more to it that we don't know as well.

Anyway, need to stay positive, lots of negative talk.

If Griffen goes, fine I am not that fussed anymore about any player, the damage is done.

Lets get some more draft picks in the top 10, 20 and get more youngsters in and a good coach and see what we can achieve.

[BulldogBelle]

What do most people here believe happened?

Is this what you believe:
Several senior players were told off by the coach. Others were dropped to the VFL for non-performance. Others were told to work harder. These players, plus some others, such as Griffen got sooked about it and wanted to leave.

Meanwhile this disrupted Macca's new style of play and sustainability plans.


The above just does not ring true to me.

I favour the idea that the players, young and old were dismayed about Macca's coaching tactics causing a lack of on-field success. It was my way or the highway. Maybe the players were right, maybe Macca was just on the wrong track. Communications just broke down for a critical number of players and there was no recovery of the position.

I just see the poor coaching angle, that's what I see.

Many of you guys would favour the Macca the messiah and players the devils angle, and concentrate on the senior players (eg Murphy, Picken, Morris and Boyd) causing all this trouble.

[Scorlibo]

Not what I have heard.

I don't get why people refuse to believe there have been MAJOR ISSUES at the club and its not just 4 senior players running 44.

The coach is gone over this issue, if it were four players then get rid of those four and keep the coach.

I agree that there is an unfair idea emerging that this was all orchestrated by unrest on the part of the senior players. These are the same senior players who have been members of a happy, and sometimes successful, playing group for 10 years.

And everything is rumour at the moment, surely? I place my trust in those who have been around the club for longer, and if this senior player exodus is a result of younger players stepping out of line, then they can step out of the club's doors. Sure, remove the cancer, but most of us have no way of knowing where that cancer lies, or whether it stops with Macca having been sacked. If there is a rift between players, and Macca has been sacked trying to mediate that situation, then I will be very, very disappointed.

[Daughter of the West]

What do most people here believe happened?

Is this what you believe:
Several senior players were told off by the coach. Others were dropped to the VFL for non-performance. Others were told to work harder. These players, plus some others, such as Griffen got sooked about it and wanted to leave.

Meanwhile this disrupted Macca's new style of play and sustainability plans.


The above just does not ring true to me.

I favour the idea that the players, young and old were dismayed about Macca's coaching tactics causing a lack of on-field success. It was my way or the highway. Maybe the players were right, maybe Macca was just on the wrong track. Communications just broke down for a critical number of players and there was no recovery of the position.

I just see the poor coaching angle, that's what I see.

Many of you guys would favour the Macca the messiah and players the devils angle, and concentrate on the senior players (eg Murphy, Picken, Morris and Boyd) causing all this trouble.

The biggest problem is that the fans DON'T know what happened. All we've seen is the captain walk out and heard rumours and innuendo in the mean time. Perhaps if we KNEW what happened (instead of piecing 2 and 2 together and getting 4,729) the air might be clearer.

Truth be told, we will probably NEVER truly know what happened, and this will (hopefully) all blow over and the club will recover. But in the absence of information, people are going to make up their minds with the scraps they've got and preconceived bias.

[Bulldog4life]

What I understood from PG's presser was that there were players for and against Macca right across the playing list and also different departments of the Club.

[LostDoggy]

The biggest problem is that the fans DON'T know what happened. All we've seen is the captain walk out and heard rumours and innuendo in the mean time. Perhaps if we KNEW what happened (instead of piecing 2 and 2 together and getting 4,729) the air might be clearer.

Truth be told, we will probably NEVER truly know what happened, and this will (hopefully) all blow over and the club will recover. But in the absence of information, people are going to make up their minds with the scraps they've got and preconceived bias.

I agree with this. I wish the Club or someone we trust, like Bob Murphy, would tell us.

[comrade]

Yep, pretty much done with it all.

Gutless from the captain and senior players. Gutless from the administration.

Just a pathetic, failure of a football club.

[The bulldog tragician]

I didn't feel anything could ever shake my loyalty and commitment to the club. No supporters, surely, have been through more than us, yet we've always endured.

But Griffen playing for us next year - if that travesty eventuates - just might be a turning point that eclipses those PFs, the 89 merger, the dismal finals records, the trading out of champions.

Like everyone here I'm pretty emotional today. Time heals a lot of things, but for the first time ever I think those people who see our club as a joke might have a point.

[bornadog]

What do most people here believe happened?

Is this what you believe:
Several senior players were told off by the coach. Others were dropped to the VFL for non-performance. Others were told to work harder. These players, plus some others, such as Griffen got sooked about it and wanted to leave.

Meanwhile this disrupted Macca's new style of play and sustainability plans.


The above just does not ring true to me.

I favour the idea that the players, young and old were dismayed about Macca's coaching tactics causing a lack of on-field success. It was my way or the highway. Maybe the players were right, maybe Macca was just on the wrong track. Communications just broke down for a critical number of players and there was no recovery of the position.

I just see the poor coaching angle, that's what I see.

Many of you guys would favour the Macca the messiah and players the devils angle, and concentrate on the senior players (eg Murphy, Picken, Morris and Boyd) causing all this trouble.

I am with you. Surely 4 players can't bring the whole club down. If it was then get rid of the four and keep the coach, but this thing runs deeper than we know.

[bulldogtragic]

Like everyone here I'm pretty emotional today. Time heals a lot of things, but for the first time ever I think those people who see our club as a joke might have a point.

I said this last night and today it's even more raw. This is it in a nutshell. 32 years of teasing. Years of being told things are different, things are better, belief in what we are told. I've never, ever let those insults hurt and never show it. But those insults are hurting now because I can't defend anything, this is so far past my worst case scenario it's hard to process it. No captain, no coach, mass exodus, no trades likely. There's no silver lining, draft picks are nice, but the last 24 hours are an unmitigated disaster. Just gut wrenching.

[ratsmac]

I am just waiting to wake up from this nightmare where Griffen is happily captaining, Macca is standing next to Paddy McCartin holding up his new bulldogs guernsey on draft day. But oh no this nightmare is real. It sucks to be a Bulldog supporter right now. Let the soul searching begin.

The club needs to get on the front foot now and unite the players and unite the members. Start by getting a big name coach that will give the members hope.

[Twodogs]

I am just waiting to wake up from this nightmare where Griffen is happily captaining, Macca is standing next to Paddy McCartin holding up his new bulldogs guernsey on draft day. But oh no this nightmare is real. It sucks to be a Bulldog supporter right now. Let the soul searching begin.

The club needs to get on the front foot now and unite the players and unite the members. Start by getting a big name coach that will give the members hope.

If things go to plan someone from the bulldogs, it can be woofer for all I care, will stand next to 3 top ten picks.

[westdog54]

What do most people here believe happened?

Is this what you believe:
Several senior players were told off by the coach. Others were dropped to the VFL for non-performance. Others were told to work harder. These players, plus some others, such as Griffen got sooked about it and wanted to leave.

Meanwhile this disrupted Macca's new style of play and sustainability plans.


The above just does not ring true to me.

I favour the idea that the players, young and old were dismayed about Macca's coaching tactics causing a lack of on-field success. It was my way or the highway. Maybe the players were right, maybe Macca was just on the wrong track. Communications just broke down for a critical number of players and there was no recovery of the position.

I just see the poor coaching angle, that's what I see.

Many of you guys would favour the Macca the messiah and players the devils angle, and concentrate on the senior players (eg Murphy, Picken, Morris and Boyd) causing all this trouble.

I challenge you to identify any poster that had laid any blame for this whatsoever at the feet of the four senior players you just mentioned.

I get that you have never been a fan of the coach and that you view this as a good result, but don't make shit up to suit your argument.

[GVGjr]

Many of you guys would favour the Macca the messiah and players the devils angle, and concentrate on the senior players (eg Murphy, Picken, Morris and Boyd) causing all this trouble.

You might have read that elsewhere but I haven't read a sniff of Murphy, Picken, Morris or Boyd as trouble makers here on the WOOF site.
In fact I would suggest nearly everyone would consider the 4 of them the more positive and respected players to have around the club.

If you have some examples of what you are suggesting then I'd like to see it.

[angelopetraglia]

Tom Boyd ..... Strength improved. Greatly improved. One week is a long time in football.

[westdog54]

Well load me up with Peptides and throw me in the gym...

[G-Mo77]

Amazing that this time last week we were all sad pandas. Remarkable turn around by the FO staff.

[westdog54]

Bump.

Found this thread while looking back at some of the stuff I've written over the years, in the wake of the 10 years thread.

I posted this in the shadows of Macca's departure when I was still pretty bloody upset about the whole thing.

I wrote towards the end "I'm hoping that between now and March, something happens that reignites the blind faith I've run with for 30 years."

Well *!*!*!*! me, if I didn't get my wish and then some.

Goes to show that even in your darkest hour you must still cling to hope, hope for better times ahead.

[bulldogtragic]

Bump.

Found this thread while looking back at some of the stuff I've written over the years, in the wake of the 10 years thread.

I posted this in the shadows of Macca's departure when I was still pretty bloody upset about the whole thing.

I wrote towards the end "I'm hoping that between now and March, something happens that reignites the blind faith I've run with for 30 years."

Well *!*!*!*! me, if I didn't get my wish and then some.

Goes to show that even in your darkest hour you must still cling to hope, hope for better times ahead.

That's why I love the preseason, anything can happen. 1996 or 2015 in my time have been amazing rides. I think if you're a long suffering member and can remember the hurt, it will make the premiership all that more meaningful. Especially compared to a bandwagoner.

[bornadog]

I just read through some of the posts and I bet a few people would be embarrassed with what they wrote at the time. (maybe not :D ) I understand it was written when they were emotional.

Wow what a difference a year and a half later, all thanks to PG and the other leaders at the club.

[G-Mo77]

How quickly things turn around. At that point, as a supporter, was a pretty bad time. One of the worst.

[SonofScray]

Bump.

Found this thread while looking back at some of the stuff I've written over the years, in the wake of the 10 years thread.

I posted this in the shadows of Macca's departure when I was still pretty bloody upset about the whole thing.

I wrote towards the end "I'm hoping that between now and March, something happens that reignites the blind faith I've run with for 30 years."

Well *!*!*!*! me, if I didn't get my wish and then some.

Goes to show that even in your darkest hour you must still cling to hope, hope for better times ahead.

This was some of my best crisis intervention ever:


The fans make the Club. So long as we stick fat and are up for the fight, the sun will come up tomorrow. This too, shall pass.

[Ghost Dog]

I just read through some of the posts and I bet a few people would be embarrassed with what they wrote at the time. (maybe not :D ) I understand it was written when they were emotional.

Wow what a difference a year and a half later, all thanks to PG and the other leaders at the club.

I thought it was pretty level headed as an OP really. I loved Griff as a player for us and it hurt a lot / embarrassing. An annoying time.
Read it more of a cry for help / camaraderie in a bit of a bleak time.
Was one of those periods where you could see us falling away the following season.
If you were to script a fictional comeback after that, with a new coach, revived game-plan, record membership and top four status, you couldn't do better.

[comrade]

Geez, I forgot how dark I was at the time!

Well done to PG for dragging us out of the mud.

And thank whatever deity you worship for the blessing that is Bevo.

[westdog54]

I just read through some of the posts and I bet a few people would be embarrassed with what they wrote at the time. (maybe not :D ) I understand it was written when they were emotional.

Wow what a difference a year and a half later, all thanks to PG and the other leaders at the club.

I know you're not aiming this at me but I still stand by what I wrote. Shocktober was a dark time for the club, and yet you look at the club today and one can scarcely imagine that such pessimism overcame us only 18 months ago.

[kruder]

Liam Jones for Caleb Daniel makes me smile everyday.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Liam Jones for Caleb Daniel makes me smile everyday.

Well, I think that little scenario will keep you smiling for approximately 400 more games.

[Happy Days]

Don't stress man, I started one of these too...like 5 months before Shocktober even happened!