Operation get Jake Carlisle

[bornadog]

So really wanting Carlisle and 25 (after a pissing contest).
Bombers trying to swap 23 and 25 for GWS's 8. Won't give them up in Carlisle swap

[bulldogtragic]

Bombers trying to swap 23 and 25 for GWS's 8. Won't give them up in Carlisle swap

With names like Talia, Minson, Tomlinson, Hrovat etc, all being brought up around these teams, a four way trade could work for all parties.

[G-Mo77]

Bombers trying to swap 23 and 25 for GWS's 8. Won't give them up in Carlisle swap

Who said? The Essendon media brigade? Unfortunately for them GWS have to sign off on deals like that.

[bornadog]

Who said? The Essendon media brigade? Unfortunately for them GWS have to sign off on deals like that.

They are all rumours, you know how it is this time of the year. However, you would need to look at the points offered for 23 and 25 compared to 8. GWS need points to get academy players.

[LostDoggy]

Who said? The Essendon media brigade? Unfortunately for them GWS have to sign off on deals like that.

Yep the points 23 & 25 add up to is more than 8 on it's own. Which is a bit bizzare.

Don't really blame Dodoro rejecting the alleged deal on the table, that's saying Carlisle is effectively worth pick 35-40 on his own.

[GVGjr]

You would have to think the Saints have offered pick 5 and want Carlisle and picks 23 and/or 25 coming back to them.


Bombers trying to swap 23 and 25 for GWS's 8. Won't give them up in Carlisle swap

I got that prediction pretty close. They will sweat on that for a couple of days and then ask for Carlisle and 25.

[G-Mo77]

They are all rumours, you know how it is this time of the year. However, you would need to look at the points offered for 23 and 25 compared to 8. GWS need points to get academy players.

Yeah it's not one I buy into, especially when it's come from Dodo's mouth. Take the points out of the equation it is still pick 8 and something another club is desperate to get. I'd be a raving psychopath if we did a deal like that.

[LostDoggy]

I hope they locked up their files!

Edit- Wait no I don't. Plus their game day strategies are probably just a folder of pictures James Hird drew of himself.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BWveqlDYj4I

[GVGjr]

A Current Affair will be airing some footage of Carlisle tonight that apparently doesn't paint a positive picture.

Tread carefully with comments please.

[chef]

Any idea what about?

Edit. Found it online apparently photo'd smoking weed in Amsterdam. Whoopee do IMO.

[Doc26]

Any idea what about?

SEN, Mark Allen, is reporting now that A Current Affair have a video apparently showing Jake Carlisle "snorting" a white substance. Supposedly to be shown tonight.

[GVGjr]

Any idea what about?

I haven't seen it yet as it starts at 7pm but the reports are around it being a social activity that would be regarded as illegal.

[chef]

SEN, Mark Allen, is reporting now that A Current Affair have a video apparently showing Jake Carlisle "snorting" a white substance. Supposedly to be shown tonight.

Fair enough, that's a bit worse than the smoking weed that I read about.

[Bulldog4life]

Glad we never got him

[bulldogtragic]

So he's a great culture fit for St Kilda. Meh.

[GVGjr]

Had St Kilda been aware of what was going to be aired tonight there is no way known that deal would have been completed

These player managers don't do the right thing.

[Webby]

Released hours after he ceased to be Essendon property...... Watch this space. This is the first of a few leaks. Essendon is a poisonous, nasty place and a bit has happened in the Carlisle space over the past couple of years..

Glad we never got him, indeed!

[GVGjr]

If Essendon were aware of this before the trade went through, and it appears they might have been, they could be in a bit of strife themselves.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. So the SPLIT SECOND he leaves Essendon.....the dirt comes out.

I'm gonna go all modern here peeps

OMG. LOL.

[bulldogtragic]

If Essendon were aware of this before the trade went through, and it appears they might have been, they could be in a bit of strife themselves.

With the 'integrity' unit?
With the 'integrity' unit that never finds anything wrong?
With the 'integrity' unit that never finds anything wrong after manipulating timing and findings?
With the 'integrity' unit that never finds anything wrong after manipulating timing and findings and act without integrity?

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/21/19/01/selfie-video-allegedly-depicts-afl-player-jake-carlisle-snorting-white-powder

AFL footballer Jake Carlisle has allegedly sent a video of himself snorting white powder to friends on the social media platform Snapchat.

In the video – which lasts for about 10 seconds – Carlisle, 24, can be seen wearing a blue top, before the camera pans down to show what appears to be a line of white powder. The footballer then appears to snort the line, before filming himself holding his nose.

The video aired on A Current Affair this evening after it was announced earlier today that Carlisle would be transferring from Essendon to St Kilda in a complex trade deal involving three separate clubs.

A Current Affair spoke with Carlisle's manager yesterday and told him exactly what was in the video.

Carlisle is currently overseas - his Instagram account filled with photos of his holiday to Europe and the United States.

According to a representative from the St Kilda football club, Carlisle's manager failed to mention the video would soon be made public.

The video is the latest scandal to mar Australia's football community in the past 12 months, with players from all codes behaving badly.

In February, Queensland's Crime and Corruption Commission revealed AFL and NRL players were being investigated as part of a cocaine trafficking syndicate.

Rugby union player Karmichael Hunt, who has played both AFL and NRL, was found guilty of drug possession, with a number of Gold Coast Titans NRL players also caught up in the scandal.

In July, damning pictures of Gold Coast Suns rising AFL star Harley Bennell also emerged.

He was snapped in a hotel room with lines of a white substance, which witnesses alleged was speed.

Bennell was subsequently dumped from the Suns playing list.

[ReLoad]

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. So the SPLIT SECOND he leaves Essendon.....the dirt comes out.

I'm gonna go all modern here peeps

OMG. LOL.

and ill raise you a WTF and ROFL.

[Dancin' Douggy]

This is the exclamation mark this truly awful and horrible trade period deserves.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Essendon are scum

[bulldogtragic]

The defence is he filmed it himself and it was a joke with flour or sugar... That makes him a bigger F'N idiot than a bloke taking some blow. Much bigger.

[Rocket Science]

It's as if a cherry's been plonked atop the steaming pile that is Windy Hill.

What a rolled gold effwit. The Saints must be thrilled.

Though you'd half suspect this might not come as much surprise to them, nor much of the industry.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Lmao

[Templeton31]

Bevo's call that the player fails the character test validated fairly quickly!!!!!

[The Underdog]

The defence is he filmed it himself and it was a joke with flour or sugar... That makes him a bigger F'N idiot than a bloke taking some blow. Much bigger.

Flour cut with sugar probably

[bulldogtragic]

Flour cut with sugar probably

Yep. I'm sure Harley said the same thing when the Hun put him on the front page.

[soupman]

To be fair even if it is real how is he different from the many other players let alone the general public that have also dabbled?

Not the smartest move taping it but he would be feeling pretty pissed off at his mates at this point.

Meanwhile Hawthorn is wrapped they can slide their far more serious issue out of the spotlight.

[LostDoggy]

He found his rightful home then.

[GVGjr]

He has responded with a media release via his management.

[KT31]

He found his rightful home then.
Would have been more excepted if he had nuded up.
What a prize %$#@wit and so glad Bevo made the judgement call.

[NoseBleed]

Rip Snorter of a call by Bevo

[GVGjr]

Rip Snorter of a call by Bevo

Are you sure about that? He seemed to be frustrated by the fact that we couldn't get Carlisle to talk to us.

[Sedat]

If Essendon and Carlisle's management were aware of the existence of this video footage prior to the trade being completed, I would like to see the manager be stripped of his accreditation and kicked out of the AFL system altogether, and Essendon to be stripped of all draft picks from the trade - maybe Bird can also play for Sydney and his wage be counted on Essendon's salary cap. Would also like Carlisle to get a strike against his name just like Libba did.

What a dirty, grubby club.

[GVGjr]

This is his statement

I have made a very poor decision and let people down and for that I am embarrassed and truly sorry. First, I would like to apologise to allSt Kilda members, supporters and staff, AFL fans as well as my new teammates.

I am aware of footage being aired of me last night and I want to be upfront and say that I made a mistake.

The video casts me in a very poor light and reveals clearly inappropriate behaviour which I regret but am accountable for.

I know that in a few weeks’ time when I join St Kilda I’m going to be expected to be open and honest with my new club so want to start by confirming my error of judgment right now.

St Kilda have shown great confidence in me and when I start with them I will need to earn their respect and win back the confidence of the playing group and broader Saints community.

I will learn from my mistake and when I return to Australia I will commit to any Club or AFL requirements or educational programs.

Again, I apologise for my behaviour and stress that when I join my new Club, I will do everything I can to live up to the standards and values they are building at StKilda.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Essendon just have no moral boundaries whatsoever.

They must have known about this, and then to land this (expensive) steaming turd in St. Kilda's lap.

And what about Channel nine themselves? Waiting 'til the deal goes through and THEN almost instantly airing it.

He hasn't even walked through the doors yet and he's already apologising to the "St Kilda members, supporters and staff, AFL fans as well as my new teammates".

What great way to kick off your new career.

I agree that the Bombers should be punished (yawn) again.

And his manager too.

This trade period has been horrible.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One thing is for certain: JC is not a bright man.

[Ozza]

If Essendon and Carlisle's management were aware of the existence of this video footage prior to the trade being completed, I would like to see the manager be stripped of his accreditation and kicked out of the AFL system altogether, and Essendon to be stripped of all draft picks from the trade - maybe Bird can also play for Sydney and his wage be counted on Essendon's salary cap.

Why exactly?
Isn't Essendon's obligation to do the best thing by their club, and get the trade done for a player who has told them he doesn't want to be there?
And isn't the player manager's obligation to get a deal/contract done in the best interests of his client.

From what I've heard, the player manager was made aware of some footage on Tuesday night - when the deal was on the doorstep of being completed. Why on earth would he jeopardise the deal, when the details of what exactly is in the footage was murky?

I hate Essendon as much as the next man, but I really don't see what they have to do with this. Are they to be expected to halt the trade, and hold on to a player that doesn't want to be there, because at the 11th hour, footage emerges of Carlisle on holidays playing up?

[Sedat]

Why exactly?
Isn't Essendon's obligation to do the best thing by their club, and get the trade done for a player who has told them he doesn't want to be there?
And isn't the player manager's obligation to get a deal/contract done in the best interests of his client.

From what I've heard, the player manager was made aware of some footage on Tuesday night - when the deal was on the doorstep of being completed. Why on earth would he jeopardise the deal, when the details of what exactly is in the footage was murky?

I hate Essendon as much as the next man, but I really don't see what they have to do with this. Are they to be expected to halt the trade, and hold on to a player that doesn't want to be there, because at the 11th hour, footage emerges of Carlisle on holidays playing up?
There would have to be clauses pertaining to 'failure to disclose information' in every contract. If I conducted my business in the same way as you have alluded to above and knowingly did not disclose information to the other party prior to the completion of a deal/contract, I would not only lose my job I would probably be taken to court as well.

It is unconscionable conduct.

[Ozza]

There would have to be clauses pertaining to 'failure to disclose information' in every contract. If I conducted my business in the same was as you have alluded to above and knowingly did not disclose information to the other party prior to the completion of a deal/contract, I would not only lose my job I would probably be taken to court as well.

It is unconscionable conduct.

You are assuming that Essendon know exactly what has gone on with Carlisle when he was in another country though.

Even if a player failed a drug test (which it doesn't appear he has) - clubs aren't even notified about in the first instance.

Where is the line drawn in 'failing to disclose information'? We're talking about a scenario in which they may have some rumours and hearsay.

I'm sure if St.Kilda feels that this fits in the 'failing to disclose information' territory, they will come out and have a crack about it. But I think you're making assumptions about, firstly, what went on, and secondly, what Essendon knew about it as being factual.

[GVGjr]

Why exactly?
Isn't Essendon's obligation to do the best thing by their club, and get the trade done for a player who has told them he doesn't want to be there?
And isn't the player manager's obligation to get a deal/contract done in the best interests of his client.

From what I've heard, the player manager was made aware of some footage on Tuesday night - when the deal was on the doorstep of being completed. Why on earth would he jeopardise the deal, when the details of what exactly is in the footage was murky?

I hate Essendon as much as the next man, but I really don't see what they have to do with this. Are they to be expected to halt the trade, and hold on to a player that doesn't want to be there, because at the 11th hour, footage emerges of Carlisle on holidays playing up?

I've got to say I'm surprised to some extent to read that you can't see the problem with the manager concealing that sort of information from the Saints.
Anthony McConville owns a business that represents a number of AFL players in a number of ways. There is no way it's in his long term interest to burn bridges with any club and wreck his name and yet if he was aware, Sedat is exactly right in that he should lose his license or accreditation. You should never allow the notion of "whats best for the client" to cloud your judgement in being fair minded with you business dealings.

The manager and Essendon won't want a time line of being informed of this to reflect badly on them.

[Sedat]

You are assuming that Essendon know exactly what has gone on with Carlisle when he was in another country though.

Even if a player failed a drug test (which it doesn't appear he has) - clubs aren't even notified about in the first instance.

Where is the line drawn in 'failing to disclose information'? We're talking about a scenario in which they may have some rumours and hearsay.

I'm sure if St.Kilda feels that this fits in the 'failing to disclose information' territory, they will come out and have a crack about it. But I think you're making assumptions about, firstly, what went on, and secondly, what Essendon knew about it as being factual.
I did say 'if' in my initial post. If Essendon and the manager were both found to have known nothing about this footage, St Kilda can clean up their own mess as far as I'm concerned. However the timing of the story, almost immediately after the trade was formalised, does raise suspicions somewhat.

(I did also call them a dirty club but I stand by that claim irrespective of their involvement or otherwise in this issue ;))

[Ozza]

I've got to say I'm surprised to some extent to read that you can't see the problem with the manager concealing that sort of information from the Saints.
Anthony McConville owns a business that represents a number of AFL players in a number of ways. There is no way it's in his long term interest to burn bridges with any club and wreck his name and yet if he was aware, Sedat is exactly right in that he should lose his license or accreditation. You should never allow the notion of "whats best for the client" to cloud your judgement in being fair minded with you business dealings.

The manager and Essendon won't want a time line of being informed of this to reflect badly on them.

What is the obsession people seem to have with people getting sacked, or losing their accreditation - when a situation occurs?
Even IF McConville knew about the footage, had seen the footage, and knew categorically that Carlisle was snorting something illegal (ALL OF WHICH ARE UNCLEAR AT THIS STAGE) - do you think that this is worthy of someone losing their livelihood?
Everyone with a keyboard is seems pretty quick to put an end to someone else's livelihood like its nothing.
There is a heap of assumptions about who knew what, and what has gone on. When you're talking about footage taken from a social media app', obtained who knows how - details are pretty murky. Lets say McConville is made aware of it late at night, prior to the trade happening, with limited access to his client, and the facts at the time - I don't think things are straightforward by any means.

[Ozza]

I did say 'if' in my initial post. If Essendon and the manager were both found to have known nothing about this footage, St Kilda can clean up their own mess as far as I'm concerned. However the timing of the story, almost immediately after the trade was formalised, does raise suspicions somewhat.

(I did also call them a dirty club but I stand by that claim irrespective of their involvement or otherwise in this issue ;))

Finnis (Saints CEO) in his presser this morning has had no issue with Essendon in how this has come to light.

[GVGjr]

What is the obsession people seem to have with people getting sacked, or losing their accreditation - when a situation occurs?
Even IF McConville knew about the footage, had seen the footage, and knew categorically that Carlisle was snorting something illegal (ALL OF WHICH ARE UNCLEAR AT THIS STAGE) - do you think that this is worthy of someone losing their livelihood?
Everyone with a keyboard is seems pretty quick to put an end to someone else's livelihood like its nothing.
There is a heap of assumptions about who knew what, and what has gone on. When you're talking about footage taken from a social media app', obtained who knows how - details are pretty murky. Lets say McConville is made aware of it late at night, prior to the trade happening, with limited access to his client, and the facts at the time - I don't think things are straightforward by any means.

I don't think you are understanding how important the player managers role is within the AFL industry to not only represent and advise the players but to work with all clubs and to foster great relationships. These are important and complex deals so withholding relevant information isn't the right thing to do.
What we are saying is IF he was aware of this situation he had a duty to investigate this and to keep the negotiating parties informed and IF he has then failed to do that it's a blight in the industry and a reflection on his standing.
We shouldn't accept the notion you originally posed that he is just there to negotiate the best interests of the player.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I find it unbelievable that the footage came out a split second after the deal was done.

[bornadog]

I find it unbelievable that the footage came out a split second after the deal was done.

Interesting to know who had that footage, who knew about it and what was the motive behind releasing it.

[Bulldog4life]

If that is a strike for Carlisle I wonder if it his first? Bet Saints would love to know.

[bulldogtragic]

If that is a strike for Carlisle I wonder if it his first? Bet Saints would love to know.

Great question. To lazy media people stalking this forum, can you find this out please?

[jazzadogs]

Great question. To lazy media people stalking this forum, can you find this out please?

Do clubs get told about strikes, or only once the player has changed hands? From memory the club doctor is one of the few people that are informed...

[bulldogtragic]

Someone with far too much time has memes a famous scene from Game of Thrones to Carlisles first day at St Kilda. I don't have a link but it's mildly amusing as much as memes can be.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Wow. Imagine if it's his third, and neither club knew.

[jeemak]

Wow. Imagine if it's his third, and neither club knew.

The club finds out after two, doesn't it?

Everyone else in the industry......aside from clubs of course.......finds out after one. :rolleyes:

[azabob]

Grant Thomas calling for his contract to be torn up.

[GVGjr]

Grant Thomas calling for his contract to be torn up.

I can't see it happening but I wonder if he would have done as the coach.

[dog town]

Stkilda would have known what he did with his spare time before the video came out. They would have just been willing to turn a blind eye like every other club. This stuff is going to come out more and more now followed by this feigned outrage from clubs and media who know all too well what is going on. AFL needs to come down with a sledge hammer if the rules allow it.

[Axe Man]

Dogs 'had some concerns' when chasing Carlisle (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-23/dogs-had-some-concerns-when-chasing-carlisle)

AS JAKE Carlisle heads home to mend fences with his new club and new St Kilda teammates, it is starting to emerge that clubs had their queries about the former Bomber in the lead-up to the trade period.

Speaking on Melbourne radio station 774 ABC on Friday, Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon said his club was interested in Carlisle, but he would only agree to an interview with the club if there was already an offer on the table.

"What we wanted to do was to interview Jake because we had some intelligence around some issues that I won't say go to character, but went to what sort of addition he would make to our football club," he said.

"Now, we were not the only football club that had some concerns. We were interested, but we wanted to talk him. He didn't want to talk to us.

"St Kilda did have sufficient confidence to say we'll deal direct and it is almost Shakespearean what has happened since."

Gordon said there were other images of players in compromised situations being shopped around to media outlets.

"I'm heartened that a lot of media are saying 'no' to it," he said.

"But it's a little bit different when a player is Snapchatting it and offering it to a friend.

"I hope Jake will learn from it and perhaps in the future become a bit of a role model."

[GVGjr]

The AFL and AFLPA are apparently unlikely to record a strike against Carlisle because it was out of season.
Kevin Bartlett has it right, if you drink in the AFL you will be in a lot more of a problem than if you take drugs. If you take drugs you're a victim that needs support, if you drink while there is a club imposed ban you are more likely to be suspended for a couple of weeks.

[Happy Days]

Now I'm not saying Carlisle isn't an idiot (he is), but I think the level of sanctimony is bordering on outrageous and our (the royal "our", not WOOF's) collective priorities on what a disgrace to the game is seem disproportionate at best.

I present to you two separate reactions to two recent issues from social media, normal media, BF, etc.

He's in a room with drugs, accused of but not proven to have taken them (he obviously did, but for arguments sake) - "HE IS LITERALLY THE WORST THING TO HAPPEN EVER THATS NOT HOW WE PLAY FOOTBALL NO SIR"

Two Hawthorn players are accused but not proven to have raped (!!!) a girl - "We have to wait for the full investigation to take place before we pass judgement on who the real victims are - what was she doing in the cab anyway?" /ignores.

[GVGjr]

Now I'm not saying Carlisle isn't an idiot (he is), but I think the level of sanctimony is bordering on outrageous and our (the royal "our", not WOOF's) collective priorities on what a disgrace to the game is seem disproportionate at best.

I present to you two separate reactions to two recent issues from social media, normal media, BF, etc.

He's in a room with drugs, accused of but not proven to have taken them (he obviously did, but for arguments sake) - "HE IS LITERALLY THE WORST THING TO HAPPEN EVER THATS NOT HOW WE PLAY FOOTBALL NO SIR"

Two Hawthorn players are accused but not proven to have raped (!!!) a girl - "We have to wait for the full investigation to take place before we pass judgement on who the real victims are - what was she doing in the cab anyway?" /ignores.

HD, he has apologised for his actions, that to me is a clear admission. Had he wanted to say it wasn't how it appeared he didn't take that option. He has also apologised to the club and to the fans.
Based on that alone I don't believe he can given him any benefit of the doubt.

The Hawks scenario is very different.

If Carlisle escapes a strike, as a minimum, then I believe that is a very poor outcome for the AFL and StKilda.

[Sedat]

The AFL and AFLPA are apparently unlikely to record a strike against Carlisle because it was out of season.
Kevin Bartlett has it right, if you drink in the AFL you will be in a lot more of a problem than if you take drugs. If you take drugs you're a victim that needs support, if you drink while there is a club imposed ban you are more likely to be suspended for a couple of weeks.
Unless you're a top bloke like Hodgey. I hear he's great with kids and does a lot of charity work.

[Happy Days]

HD, he has apologised for his actions, that to me is a clear admission. Had he wanted to say it wasn't how it appeared he didn't take that option. He has also apologised to the club and to the fans.
Based on that alone I don't believe he can given him any benefit of the doubt.

The Hawks scenario is very different.

If Carlisle escapes a strike, as a minimum, then I believe that is a very poor outcome for the AFL and StKilda.

No so much the point. I appreciate the differences, but even still why does one issue attract collective outrage, yet the other attracts nervous collar tugs and pleas for "due process"?

[always right]

No so much the point. I appreciate the differences, but even still why does one issue attract collective outrage, yet the other attracts nervous collar tugs and pleas for "due process"?

Was there video of the alleged sexual assault? I think that's the answer in this particular situation.

The added sensitivity is that one affects a third party whereas the only one affected by Carlisle's actions is Carlisle himself. You need to tread a little warily when the allegation is so serious.

[bornadog]

If Carlisle escapes a strike, as a minimum, then I believe that is a very poor outcome for the AFL and StKilda.

How can he cop a strike when the process is he would have to take a test and be proven he was taking drugs?

[GVGjr]

No so much the point. I appreciate the differences, but even still why does one issue attract collective outrage, yet the other attracts nervous collar tugs and pleas for "due process"?

It's probably because the facts aren't clear and judgements vastly harder to make especially given the seriousness of the charges.

[azabob]

How can he cop a strike when the process is he would have to take a test and be proven he was taking drugs?

Liberatore copped a strike.

[Happy Days]

It's probably because the facts aren't clear and judgements vastly harder to make especially given the seriousness of the charges.

True - it's not like AFL clubs collectively have a torrid history of under/not suspending players for domestic violence, paying off victims, etc., that would give me cause to be disenfranchised with the lack of public stance and opinion being taken.

EDIT - Sorry Gary, I think we should leave it alone.

[bornadog]

Liberatore copped a strike.

Really?

Well if you listen to the apology from Carlisle, it was written by Saints PR and legal people checking it. He admits to nothing just the video itself and looking like a dickhead, but nothing else like taking drugs.

All he has to say is it was a prank and end of matter.

[Greystache]

Was there video of the alleged sexual assault? I think that's the answer in this particular situation.

The added sensitivity is that one affects a third party whereas the only one affected by Carlisle's actions is Carlisle himself. You need to tread a little warily when the allegation is so serious.

I also don't recall a table of drugs making a false accusation in the hopes of receiving publicity and financial gains.

But hey let's immediately assume guilt because they play football. It all worked out well with the St kilda "school" girl and her never ending string of fairy tales that were treated as gospel.

[GVGjr]

How can he cop a strike when the process is he would have to take a test and be proven he was taking drugs?

I don't think that is the case. The challenge around the AFL and ALPHA position seems to be because it was out of season. Within season it's a strike.

[bornadog]

I don't think that is the case. The challenge around the AFL and ALPHA position seems to be because it was out of season. Within season it's a strike.

But even within season, how can Carlisle cop a strike based on a video which could be a prank.

[Axe Man]

But even within season, how can Carlisle cop a strike based on a video which could be a prank.

There were no positive tests as far as I'm aware for Libba or Harley Bennell but both received strikes I believe. It's possible that they were both involved in 'pranks' as well.

[GVGjr]

Really?

Well if you listen to the apology from Carlisle, it was written by Saints PR and legal people checking it. He admits to nothing just the video itself and looking like a dickhead, but nothing else like taking drugs.

All he has to say is it was a prank and end of matter.

You're cutting him way too much slack. Nowhere in his apology statement does he say it was a prank gone wrong or that it wasn't as it seemed. He has apologised for his actions within that clip and he has apologised to his new team mates and the supporters of the StKilda football club.

This is a snippet


I know that in a few weeks’ time when I join St Kilda I’m going to be expected to be open and honest with my new club so want to start by confirming my error of judgment right now.

St Kilda have shown great confidence in me and when I start with them I will need to earn their respect and win back the confidence of the playing group and broader Saints community.

I will learn from my mistake and when I return to Australia I will commit to any Club or AFL requirements or educational programs.

Again, I apologise for my behaviour and stress that when I join

To me he had passed on taking the chance to diminish his responsibility

[bornadog]

You're cutting him way too much slack. Nowhere in his apology statement does he say it was a prank gone wrong or that it wasn't as it seemed. He has apologised for his actions within that clip and he has apologised to his new team mates and the supporters of the StKilda football club.

To me he had passed on taking the chance to diminish his responsibility

You didn't read my response.

If he was to be given a strike, I said what is to stop him saying it was a prank.

Any way, article from afl.com.au:


Carlisle will be hair tested upon his return from the United States but it is understood that alone will not be enough for him to register a strike under the illicit drugs policy.

He will be target tested by the League though if his hair test returns a positive result, following an admission of "inappropriate behaviour" and a video that depicted him snorting a white powder.

[Dancin' Douggy]

No so much the point. I appreciate the differences, but even still why does one issue attract collective outrage, yet the other attracts nervous collar tugs and pleas for "due process"?

If the Hawthorn players had filmed the alleged assault and shared it on social media I'm sure the outrage would be tenfold.

But I agree, sexual assault is a much more serious crime than taking drugs.

[bornadog]

There were no positive tests as far as I'm aware for Libba or Harley Bennell but both received strikes I believe. It's possible that they were both involved in 'pranks' as well.

How do you know they received strikes as Clubs are not told how many strikes players are on.

[bornadog]

sorry double up

[Axe Man]

How do you know they received strikes as Clubs are not told how many strikes players are on.

It's been widely reported. It was even mentioned in an article about Carlisle in the Herald Sun today. Basically because they admitted it and the incidents took place either during the season or pre-season they received strikes.

Carlisle has also essentially admitted it as well but seems destined to escape a strike because the incident took place in between the end of the season and the start of pre-season.

[Axe Man]

Dogs 'had some concerns' when chasing Carlisle (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-23/dogs-had-some-concerns-when-chasing-carlisle)

I already posted this, check the previous page. ;)

[bornadog]

I already posted this, check the previous page. ;)

missed it, sorry

[LostDoggy]

I already posted this, check the previous page. ;)

How does BAD's lunch taste? :D

[bornadog]

First day at Saints:


https://www.facebook.com/TheGreenfieldPost/videos/1648896318727269/

[Ghost Dog]

Nervous wait for St Kilda. What has he bee up to in the states?
The old ladies of Moorabbin will be watching him like hawks.

[LostDoggy]

Nervous wait for St Kilda. What has he bee up to in the states?
The old ladies of Moorabbin will be watching him like hawks.

It's the Saints, mate. Even the young ladies need to keep a wary eye.

[LostDoggy]

Rename the thread Operation did not touch Carlisle than heavens

[bornadog]

Carlisle and McConville have been summoned by AFL on a please explain.

[bulldogtragic]

Carlisle and McConville have been summoned by AFL on a please explain.

Even if they're guilty, the "Integrity" Unit won't hand down a finding until 2032. As Lou Interligi playing Alphonse Caprichosa says, 'it's sweet mate'.

[LostDoggy]

Even if they're guilty, the "Integrity" Unit won't hand down a finding until 2032. As Lou Interligi playing Alphonse Caprichosa says, 'it's sweet mate'.

Chillax man everything is Cool Banana's :cool:

[bornadog]

Jake Carlisle banned for two matches by AFL

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jake-carlisle-banned-for-two-matches-by-afl-20151106-gksvnx.html#ixzz3qgpt2V8u

[Axe Man]

I don't understand how Carlisle can get suspended for 2 matches when every other player on 1 or even 2 strikes gets nothing?

Rules being made up as they go along once again?

[Remi Moses]

Stkilda should be making a statement here and suspend him for a month .
Knowing what's proceeded there however he probably would have been made captain

[Twodogs]

I don't understand how Carlisle can get suspended for 2 matches when every other player on 1 or even 2 strikes gets nothing?

Rules being made up as they go along once again?

I don't understand it. Did we miss the trial?

[GVGjr]

I don't understand how Carlisle can get suspended for 2 matches when every other player on 1 or even 2 strikes gets nothing?

Rules being made up as they go along once again?

While I agree with the flexible rules comment, Carlisle outed himself via his stupidity losing the ability to fly under the radar.

The penalty should have been a bit harder but it's not as soft as I thought it might be. He's right on the edge now to maintain his career.

[EasternWest]

While I agree with the flexible rules comment, Carlisle outed himself via his stupidity losing the ability to fly under the radar.

The penalty should have been a bit harder but it's not as soft as I thought it might be. He's right on the edge now to maintain his career.

Surely you can't believe the bolded bit?

As far as his career goes, this will be a blip on the radar and he'll carry on scot free afterwards, like every other AFL player that screws up but gets given a get out of jail free card due to their money/power/position etc.

I don't really have much of an opinion on what he did on a personal level - he's clearly a bogan moron who does bogan moron things with his bogan moron mates. If he were just a normal person like most of us we'd never know or hear about it. But he's not and we did. The AFL craps on about responsible citizenship etc etc and then when a guy does something as public as this that contravenes their stance, they slap him on the bum and say don't do it again?

If I did something like this and my employer found out about it, I can promise you I wouldn't have my $800,000 position of privilege much longer.

He's got off very, very lightly. As all AFL players seem to do. And he won't have to worry about "maintaining his career". He'll be just fine and dandy.

Edit: I'm sorry if I sound cranky. My current work climate has me feeling very touchy about matters of employment atm.

[LostDoggy]

I don't understand how Carlisle can get suspended for 2 matches when every other player on 1 or even 2 strikes gets nothing?

Rules being made up as they go along once again?

I think in AFL land, doing the wrong thing (taking drugs) is not the issue, making it public is the hanging offence. It's a sad reflection of where they are at, if Jake snorts coke (or whatever), they'll protect him and hide him (even from his club), but if he is careless enough to let the public see it they'll whack him with a big stick so that everyone can see how upset they are. Great administration.

How must Jake be feeling towards his mate. Sends him a stupid shot of apparent drug taking, thinking it would quickly disappear and no-one else would ever see it (as Snapchat is designed for). The 'mate' maliciously records it and sends it into the world (selling it to the media for profit). Costs Jake $50k, 2 matches and public ridicule. Top mate (or at least that's how it's been reported).

[GVGjr]

Surely you can't believe the bolded bit?

As far as his career goes, this will be a blip on the radar and he'll carry on scot free afterwards, like every other AFL player that screws up but gets given a get out of jail free card due to their money/power/position etc.

I don't really have much of an opinion on what he did on a personal level - he's clearly a bogan moron who does bogan moron things with his bogan moron mates. If he were just a normal person like most of us we'd never know or hear about it. But he's not and we did. The AFL craps on about responsible citizenship etc etc and then when a guy does something as public as this that contravenes their stance, they slap him on the bum and say don't do it again?



I sense the St Kilda playing group won't tolerate another incident with illicit drugs so yes I'm 100% of the view he is right on the edge.
For the 2nd bolded section, I do have a firm view with regards to illicit drugs and I think there is a fundamental flaw in the whole 3 strikes softly softly approach. I've mentioned before but many younger people want to take advantage of all chances and benefits of the doubt they possibly can so having a one strike policy would be far clearer indication of where they stand and the ramifications of taking illicit drugs. There should be a clear position that says if you want to take illicit drugs then a career in the AFL is not the place for you.

[EasternWest]

I sense the St Kilda playing group won't tolerate another incident with illicit drugs so yes I'm 100% of the view he is right on the edge.
For the 2nd bolded section, I do have a firm view with regards to illicit drugs and I think there is a fundamental flaw in the whole 3 strikes softly softly approach. I've mentioned before but many younger people want to take advantage of all chances and benefits of the doubt they possibly can so having a one strike policy would be far clearer indication of where they stand and the ramifications of taking illicit drugs. There should be a clear position that says if you want to take illicit drugs then a career in the AFL is not the place for you.

Well it's clear we're not going to agree, and that's fine. But to counterpoint: Are you saying the St Kilda players that set fire to an entertainer, led by a Captain that publically supported a player on sexual assault charges and also happily posed naked for photos with another teammate adoring his manhood will take a stance if a star recruit, big dollar player steps out of line? I just have to disagree.

The second bolded bit is more about personal opinions on illicit substances and not worth arguing over. I respect your stance.

[Remi Moses]

Stkilda should have suspended him for an extra 2
Personally I think 1st strike deserves a suspended sentence.
Second strike 4 weeks .
Third strike 12 weeks

[GVGjr]

Well it's clear we're not going to agree, and that's fine. But to counterpoint: Are you saying the St Kilda players that set fire to an entertainer, led by a Captain that publically supported a player on sexual assault charges and also happily posed naked for photos with another teammate adoring his manhood will take a stance if a star recruit, big dollar player steps out of line? I just have to disagree.


The past isn't the future for the Saints and I've met Alan Richardson and I believe he will endeavour to see a far better level of professionalism than has been previously seen at the Saints. I'd also hate for the current standards of the Bulldogs to be argued down from past examples. We need to deal strongly with these issues as and when they arise.

Yep, we aren't going to get any common ground on this and yes I'm set in stone on the issue that this industry should not be cutting too much slack for players who want to take illicit drugs as part of their lifestyle.

[EasternWest]

I too would hate that.

Except Nick Riewoldt is captain now and was then. The playing group is certainly within the same generation.

I can accept what you're saying about Richardson. He seems like a stand up guy. I'm just not sure the rat bag mentality will change in general until the generation changes with it.

I don't know why you felt the need to reiterate your stance re drugs. I already told you I respect it.

[bornadog]

I don't understand how Carlisle can get suspended for 2 matches when every other player on 1 or even 2 strikes gets nothing?

Rules being made up as they go along once again?

I don't get this either. The AFL came out with a new policy just a month ago, then make it up as they go along for this situation.

Here it is:

AFL illicit drug policy:



Strike 1: Suspended $5,000 fine, counselling
Strike 2: Four-match suspension, club informed, name made public
Strike 3: 12-match suspension


Transition to new regime:

Players with one detection more than two years old will start fresh
Players with one recent detection will be fined $5,000 if they offend again - club informed but no suspension
Players with two detections will be given four-week suspension and fined $5,000 if they offend again

[LostDoggy]

The AFL suspension was for "bringing the game into disrepute" not for taking drugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/snorter-gate-scandal-costs-jake-carlisle-at-least-50000/story-fnca0u4y-1227599527982

[Topdog]

The AFL suspension was for "bringing the game into disrepute" not for taking drugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/snorter-gate-scandal-costs-jake-carlisle-at-least-50000/story-fnca0u4y-1227599527982

So does that mean he also got fined $5000?

[westdog54]

The AFL suspension was for "bringing the game into disrepute" not for taking drugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/snorter-gate-scandal-costs-jake-carlisle-at-least-50000/story-fnca0u4y-1227599527982

The more the AFL try to "Protect the brand" the more terrible it looks.

I have a very different opinion to most here on the illicit drug policy but this decision is bizarre and ridiculous.

[Twodogs]

The more the AFL try to "Protect the brand" the more terrible it looks.

I have a very different opinion to most here on the illicit drug policy but this decision is bizarre and ridiculous.

Most decisions made as reactions to single incidents in this field tend to turn out to be ridiculous.

[LostDoggy]

The first game he destroys a forward all will be forgiven.

[azabob]

Most decisions made as reactions to single incidents in this field tend to turn out to be ridiculous.

Not to sure I agree with you.

Do you think Carlisle should have gotten off scott free?

There has been major debate for a few years now about the three strike policy.

[Scorlibo]

The AFL suspension was for "bringing the game into disrepute" not for taking drugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/snorter-gate-scandal-costs-jake-carlisle-at-least-50000/story-fnca0u4y-1227599527982

I personally see the drugs policy upheld by the AFL as being an extension of the "bringing the game into disrepute" policy. There's really no reason apart from this to have a policy on drugs that goes beyond the laws by which every Australian citizen abides. Clubs may see players who take drugs as risky propositions - fair enough, they can employ them on whatever basis and however keenly they like. The AFL having a policy on drugs really only serves one purpose - to protect the brand, and possibly to protect the image of footballers being broadcast to children.

[Twodogs]

Not to sure I agree with you.

Do you think Carlisle should have gotten off scott free?

There has been major debate for a few years now about the three strike policy.


About the punishment, it doesn't bother me overall. Jake seems to be a pretty good job of punishing himself at the moment. I'm more interested in why he is doing that.

[LostDoggy]

Best aspect of Carlisle's 2 match ban:

R2 - St Kilda v Western Bulldogs

[Sedat]

Best aspect of Carlisle's 2 match ban:

R2 - St Kilda v Western Bulldogs
This will be off-set by the 15 free kicks in front of goal that Nick Riewoldt will get on his 300th match :rolleyes:

[Greystache]

This will be off-set by the 15 free kicks in front of goal that Nick Riewoldt will get on his 300th match :rolleyes:

He'll be flopping around like a fish with cry face that's just landed in a boat.

[GVGjr]

Carlisle arrived at training late this week and the playing group were all made to do an early morning session as a result. SEN believe it was a 5am start.

Is it a good move or a bad move by the Saints to make everyone pay for Carlisle's error?

I don't think it's a bad move.

[Maddog37]

Jake is proving to be a bit of a problem. I would be fairly shirty with him if I were one of his teammates.

[F'scary]

This will be off-set by the 15 free kicks in front of goal that Nick Riewoldt will get on his 300th match :rolleyes:

We'll be the team that confirms he has played for one season too many. Bring it on!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Carlisle arrived at training late this week and the playing group were all made to do an early morning session as a result. SEN believe it was a 5am start.

Is it a good move or a bad move by the Saints to make everyone pay for Carlisle's error?

I don't think it's a bad move.

My initial response is that it's a good move, but there a couple of issues:

1. One or two of his team mates won't agree with the decision, thus, potentially already putting him offside with a few of them.
2. If he stuffs up in the future, I am not sure what they can do next

He's created a few problems in only a few weeks. Couldn't have made a worse start.

[Ghost Dog]

St Kilda football marketing just cut their quota of Jake Carlisle coffee mugs and badges to the bare minim.

[azabob]

Gee, this guy just keeps giving and giving.

[GVGjr]

My initial response is that it's a good move, but there a couple of issues:

1. One or two of his team mates won't agree with the decision, thus, potentially already putting him offside with a few of them.
2. If he stuffs up in the future, I am not sure what they can do next

He's created a few problems in only a few weeks. Couldn't have made a worse start.

How I see it is if they fine him he won't really care, same if they made him do the early morning start. At least now he knows that when he stuffs up all his team mates pay a price. The club will soon work out if he just doesn't care about anyone else but himself and given the power of leadership groups in footy now he might not get a lot of support from them if he tests the club patience again.

[Twodogs]

St Kilda football marketing just cut their quota of Jake Carlisle coffee mugs and badges to the bare minim.

On the plus the Jake Carlisle toot spoons are flying off the shelves.

[Remi Moses]

This bloke is in gold medal position as the biggest moron in afl circles .
Pretty hard to get to training on time and split the atom also

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How I see it is if they fine him he won't really care, same if they made him do the early morning start. At least now he knows that when he stuffs up all his team mates pay a price. The club will soon work out if he just doesn't care about anyone else but himself and given the power of leadership groups in footy now he might not get a lot of support from them if he tests the club patience again.

Shouldn't they already known this though, if they've done their due diligence? There was plenty flying around regarding his character from merely a football fan's perspective. I'd imagine they'd have known the ins and outs - or at least should have, particularly given their heavy investment.

For mine, it feels like they've paid big money and coughed up a bit to get him with a bit of a "It'll be fine" attitude, and not only has it blown up in their face already, they're now trying to take the hard road with him. Which is fine to a degree, but he's already had multiple stuff ups and it's not even December. It almost becomes not a case of if but when he next makes a mistake, what do they do then?

I understand they're damned if they do damned if they don't in a sense, but from a neutrals perspective it's interesting to see how this all plays out. It could turn extremely pair shaped very quickly, and I think both parties could share some blame for that.

[Greystache]

It takes some time to un-Essendon someone. St Kilda need to be patient in trying to turn him into a professional footballer.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Carlisle arrived at training late this week and the playing group were all made to do an early morning session as a result. SEN believe it was a 5am start.

Is it a good move or a bad move by the Saints to make everyone pay for Carlisle's error?

I don't think it's a bad move.

Peer group pressure is very effective, especially in a professional team. It also says to the team: "Carlisle is part of us so we need to carry him just as he contributes to us." So everyone paying for Carlisle's error can also be a bonding experience and part of initiation for him. It stretches the friendship of course but the fool must be used to it.
Thanks to the universe and our professionalism that we didn't recruit him.