Operation get Jake Carlisle

[LostDoggy]

As per Remi's original....

Right, I'll put it out there.
I'm going to get whacked from some posters
Promising CHB, right age bracket.
Requires lateral thinking.

Thoughts? ;)

[ledge]

I would take him in a flash but how ?

[chef]

Out of contract next season.

[Webby]

I would take him in a flash but how ?

Here's a scenario:

Essendon don't do the Ryder deal. Ryder takes them to court and wins a breach of contract for duty of care failure... Floodgates open and we get after Carlisle... We could offer him $2M in his first year and 700k p.a. thereafter.

Far fetched, but it's a scenario!

[LostDoggy]

Getting Boyd is game changing, here's my thinking:
- We are now a legitimate destination club;
- Boyd is a conduit for access to the rest of the GWS list who want to return to Melbourne.

[bornadog]

Getting Boyd is game changing, here's my thinking:
- We are now a legitimate destination club;
- Boyd is a conduit for access to the rest of the GWS list who want to return to Melbourne.

Offer Cooney and Tutt plus pick 26

[Webby]

Offer Cooney and Tutt plus pick 26

Have you had a few sherbets to celebrate today, BAD?
Surely the above is a joke??

[bornadog]

Have you had a few sherbets to celebrate today, BAD?
Surely the above is a joke??

hehe - We have no chance to get him by 2pm tomorrow.

[Topdog]

Have you had a few sherbets to celebrate today, BAD?
Surely the above is a joke??

It sounds like a deal Essendon would offer us for an A grader.

[Twodogs]

It sounds like a deal Essendon would offer us for an A grader.

They'd reluctantly part with that for Jake Stringer.

[bulldogtragic]

No more surprises folks. Focus on TB.

[anfo27]

No more surprises folks. Focus on TB.

Come on BT work your magic.

[bulldogtragic]

Come on BT work your magic.

The only other 'trade' I heard prior to Macca going was a positional trade, that being our Roughead to forward. Now to 'Twin Tower' status. Jones if staying maybe in defence, or that pick used to release Roughie. Does that count?

[LostDoggy]

We need to improve now and get in the ears of whomever is due to go Number 1 this year and get the trade done before they're even drafted. ;)

[bornadog]

Out for 4 to 6 weeks with an ankle. Hope he is right for next season in the RWB:D

[LostDoggy]

Or at least not back before round 18! He tore us a new one last time we palyed

[comrade]

If you believe BF scuttlebutt, we're not in the race for his services.

Undisclosed personal issues seemingly being the reason.

[ratsmac]

Mark Stevens said on AFL Gameday this morning that the Dogs are out of the running for Jake Carlisle and that he is heading to Carlton. "Lock it in" was his words. He was pretty confident.

It could be a blessing in disguise that Jake has not picked us with the WADA case still ongoing.

[1eyedog]

Mark Stevens said on AFL Gameday this morning that the Dogs are out of the running for Jake Carlisle and that he is heading to Carlton. "Lock it in" was his words. He was pretty confident.

It could be a blessing in disguise that Jake has not picked us with the WADA case still ongoing.

Carlton, what a joke he'll be retired before they are top 4. I guess this frees up a bucket load for Dangerfield?

[bulldogtragic]

The market is forcing up the value. Henderson might not like being offered unders in comparison. That's an opportunity.

[azabob]

Isn't Henderson Geelong bound?

[bulldogtragic]

Isn't Henderson Geelong bound?

If we can show we are above the Geelong bell curve, you just never know what players put on instant finals gratification. Like with JC, I believe the club is interested.

[Dry Rot]

The market is forcing up the value. Henderson might not like being offered unders in comparison. That's an opportunity.

Is it just me? I've never been impressed with Henderson.

[jeemak]

Is it just me? I've never been impressed with Henderson.

He's a player that would be well served playing for a decent team. An excellent second banana, more so than anything else and second banana's are worth their weight in gold.

[Twodogs]

He's a player that would be well served playing for a decent team. An excellent second banana, more so than anything else and second banana's are worth their weight in gold.

Yep. The McKernan to Tom Boyd's Carey.

[chef]

Henderson would be a great swingman for us, a better option than Jake.

[LostDoggy]

Operation Don't Get Jake Carlisle? :)

[bornadog]

Story here: Fremantle unlikely to make play for Carlisle (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-15/fremantle-unlikely-to-chase-out-of-contract-carlisle?utm_medium=RSS)

[comrade]

No to Henderson. Just don't think he's that good at either end and certainly isn't worth what he'll be asking for.

[always right]

No to Henderson. Just don't think he's that good at either end and certainly isn't worth what he'll be asking for.

Agree....don't understand the love.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We don't need a superstar CHF/CHB - we need a really solid one, and Henderson fits that category IMO.

Depends on his asking price, but I think he'd actually be a good fit for us at either end.

[bulldogtragic]

We don't need a superstar CHF/CHB - we need a really solid one, and Henderson fits that category IMO.

Depends on his asking price, but I think he'd actually be a good fit for us at either end.

Seems we agree. I think he's a much better version of Leigh Brown. In an average team devoid of confidence they are OK, but like LB I think Hendo could be a very important tall in a confident and winning team. I think Hendo, Roughy, maybe Talia and co could be a great team of swing men players. If a tall back is being beaten we can throw any of them back or if our forward line is quiet we can rotate them through. I know if I was coach, like Clarko, I'd love flexible talls to move around. David Hale is another example of a Hom hum career before a change into a good side. It's not always paying mega bucks for superstars, list management is far more subtle and value, real value, is in buying before stocks rise too high (ie. Hamling).

But really depends on his asking price. If he'd take $450,000 (Circa a little over Higgins and Jones salary) and Carlton took upgrades in the first and second rounds 11>20 and 29>38. That would be hard not to jump at, especially if we landed a ruck as a free agent and looked at a trade with 20 for the best mid we can buy.

[Remi Moses]

Did anyone see Henderson's game on Rance?
He goes quarters without touching the footy.
No thank you

[chef]

Did anyone see Henderson's game on Rance?
He goes quarters without touching the footy.
No thank you

Rance does that to everyone nowadays.

[ReLoad]

There is no way Carlton will let Henderson go. Their list is so stuffed they need to throw money to pay min cap. And he is one of the only decent talls they have.

[Bulldog Joe]

There is no way Carlton will let Henderson go. Their list is so stuffed they need to throw money to pay min cap. And he is one of the only decent talls they have.

Carlton may have some cap space next year with the retirement of Judd, but I understood that one of their issues (for some time) was a lack of cap space.

[Greystache]

There is no way Carlton will let Henderson go. Their list is so stuffed they need to throw money to pay min cap. And he is one of the only decent talls they have.

Their list is in terrible shape, but it's stuffed with older players who are really average, so they actually all get decent money and put the salary cap near its limit. They've got the worst of both worlds.

[Bulldog4life]

Did anyone see Henderson's game on Rance?
He goes quarters without touching the footy.
No thank you

Yes I saw it. Henderson hasn't had a good year so far.

[comrade]

I'd love to throw the cash at Treloar but seems we're not in the hunt.

[ReLoad]

Their list is in terrible shape, but it's stuffed with older players who are really average, so they actually all get decent money and put the salary cap near its limit. They've got the worst of both worlds.

They cleaned house a bit when Betts left, and now mr Visy has gone they should have room. if they haven't sorted their cap out with their list they are seriously stuffed. (how awesome!)

Id be highly surprised if they let Henderson leave for money.

[lemmon]

Did anyone see Henderson's game on Rance?
He goes quarters without touching the footy.
No thank you

I prefer him as a key back anyway. Mobile, nice user of the footy and a mature body... I'd love to grab him

[Doc26]

I'd love to throw the cash at Treloar but seems we're not in the hunt.

Definitely. He's a gun and a quality user.

Same as every year, rumours have him off to Collingwood :rolleyes:

[comrade]

Definitely. He's a gun.

We're one gun mid short, IMO.

Libba, Macrae, Bonti and Treloar.... just hand us the next few flags :D

[Doc26]

We're one gun mid short, IMO.

Libba, Macrae, Bonti and Treloar.... just hand us the next few flags :D

Spoke with Emma Quayle briefly prior to him getting drafted. She was a huge fan, having had a bit to do with him, said he was a quality kid.

Here is an article that Emma wrote for The Age on Adam going back some 3 years now. I remember at the time thinking how difficult the pull back home would be for him, that hopefully we just might get lucky.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/greater-western-sydney-giants/my-two-mums-20120719-22d3c.html

[Rocket Science]

We're one gun mid short, IMO.

Libba, Macrae, Bonti and Treloar.... just hand us the next few flags :D

Albeit a lovely thought, Mitch Wallis says g'day.

[comrade]

Albeit a lovely thought, Mitch Wallis says g'day.

Love the way he's tracking but a level below in class these names.

[boydogs]

Albeit a lovely thought, Mitch Wallis says g'day.

Luke Dahlhaus says wassssuppppppppp

[GVGjr]

There is no way Carlton will let Henderson go. Their list is so stuffed they need to throw money to pay min cap. And he is one of the only decent talls they have.

Unless they have learned nothing from this season they absolutely need to let Henderson go. They should be desperate to get 4 draft picks inside of the first 40 of this years draft and if they could get an early 2nd rounder for Henderson they should do it.

[Mantis]

Love the way he's tracking but a level below in class these names.

Agree, really need to add someone with a bit more pace than the rest of the names listed... A good kick too would be a big bonus.

[ReLoad]

Unless they have learned nothing from this season they absolutely need to let Henderson go. They should be desperate to get 4 draft picks inside of the first 40 of this years draft and if they could get an early 2nd rounder for Henderson they should do it.

There is plenty of other ways to do it without taking a good young(ish) player that builds a spine. Gibbs and Kreuzer are great examples who will get them those picks, freeing up cap space and also not negatively impacting the team in any way whatsoever.

[Axe Man]

Damian Barrett in his weekly Sliding Doors article on the AFL Website:

If the Bulldogs are successful in their pitch to Jake Carlisle then they're going to look pretty good in 2016.

:confused: I thought we were out of the Carlisle race?

[bornadog]

Damian Barrett in his weekly Sliding Doors article on the AFL Website:

If the Bulldogs are successful in their pitch to Jake Carlisle then they're going to look pretty good in 2016.

:confused: I thought we were out of the Carlisle race?

No we are not. ;)

[Bulldog4life]

Damian Barrett in his weekly Sliding Doors article on the AFL Website:

If the Bulldogs are successful in their pitch to Jake Carlisle then they're going to look pretty good in 2016.

:confused: I thought we were out of the Carlisle race?

Mark Stevens said so. Maybe he is using reverse psychology:)

[Remi Moses]

Jack Nail in the Age reckons we're after him as well

[bulldogtragic]

I understand we've put forward a very good pitch to Jakes Management. My guess is Carlton can and will offer more bucks and Stevo's logic was Jake would take more dollars because he wants more dollars like all of us. But Jake could very well take a little less to playing in finals from the get go. The truth is, not even Jake knows what he's doing yet and with WADA in the wings confusing him and the circumstances who knows what will happen. But the media writing in his morning paper he can have a very good salary and play finals with us as the missing piece helps us in our pitch. Thanks Damien & Jake.

[bulldogtragic]

I wouldn't be offering pick 10 either. We'd need to find a downgrade pick and player.

[LostDoggy]

Damian Barrett in his weekly Sliding Doors article on the AFL Website:

If the Bulldogs are successful in their pitch to Jake Carlisle then they're going to look pretty good in 2016.



2016?
How about looking pretty good in 2015 Pinhead Barrett?!?!

[GVGjr]

We will have a good go at getting him even if the signs are he is looking elsewhere. He's a good player and if switched on fits our needs but I'm not sold on him being a great fit for us.

[Twodogs]

We will have a good go at getting him even if the signs are he is looking elsewhere. He's a good player and if switched on fits our needs but I'm not sold on him being a great fit for us.

Yep. The I won't play forward thing worries me too. You play where the team needs you to play. There's no "nup, not doing that" in team.

He's a gun and you can't have too many good footballers-especially big blokes. But does his style suit our style of play. Minson despite his limitations is a good footballer, AA two years ago, is in pretty good form at what he does best in ruck contests. He's tapping the ball really well when he gets hands to it and helping us to win clearances. We've kicked quite a few goals over the last few weeks directly from ball ups and Minson has been responsible for most of them.

But the coach hasn't hesitated to drop Wil if there isn't a obvious role for him. I wonder if Carlisle might type. Or is he exactly the type we need?

The WADA thing has me worried too.

[bornadog]

Ralph on SEN says Dogs are a good chance to get Carlisle.

[G-Mo77]

I've soured on him to be honest. The pending WADA case which will already effect one of our players and the dummy spits because he doesn't play where he wants. I don't think he's worth the investment. I'd rather go for Henderson.

[boydogs]

the dummy spits because he doesn't play where he wants

Do we have a source we can trust for this?

[G-Mo77]

Do we have a source we can trust for this?

Probably not but I'm pretty sure it has been reported that he hasn't been pleased about playing forward. Weather that is true depends on who you believe or which side of the fence you want to sit on I guess.

[Greystache]

Do we have a source we can trust for this?

James Hird, he is the bastion of truthfulness. He once won a pedigree dog in a truth telling contest two towns over.

[1eyedog]

Do we have a source we can trust for this?

Not sure. I do however remember the media being all over Thompson in 2014 about it re. Thompson playing him out of position (forward) and Jake not being happy about it. There definitely seemed to be tension between Bomber and Jake.

[Twodogs]

James Hird, he is the bastion of truthfulness. He once won a pedigree dog in a truth telling contest two towns over.

Honest James they call him.

It's a lovely dog. Very hirsute. That's what James says anyway. And how could you doubt him and his shaggy dog stories?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

All things being equal, I hope we land Carlisle. I'm a big fan. Can't judge him (or many) Essendon players on this season's form (see Jobe). If his mindset is OK, Jake would be a huge get for 2016.

[bornadog]

All things being equal, I hope we land Carlisle. I'm a big fan. Can't judge him (or many) Essendon players on this season's form (see Jobe). If his mindset is OK, Jake would be a huge get for 2016.

Get Carlisle and we are on the way to the granny

[bulldogtragic]

I'm confused. You told me to get Carlisle now you've doubts. What do you want people? If you want this you've got to be prepared to let Minno go by direct trade or him not being happy with an offer and walking.

The on trading of picks too. Say 10 for Bennell/other high quality mid and 20. 20 and fringe player for Carlisle.

Could be busy.

[Twodogs]

I'm confused. You told me to get Carlisle now you've doubts. What do you want people? If you want this you've got to be prepared to let Minno go by direct trade or him not being happy with an offer and walking.

The on trading of picks too. Say 10 for Bennell/other high quality mid and 20. 20 and fringe player for Carlisle.

Could be busy.

When in doubt go for the money shot. The money shot must be Carlisle, surely?

[bornadog]

I'm confused. You told me to get Carlisle now you've doubts. What do you want people? If you want this you've got to be prepared to let Minno go by direct trade or him not being happy with an offer and walking.

The on trading of picks too. Say 10 for Bennell/other high quality mid and 20. 20 and fringe player for Carlisle.

Could be busy.

Get him. Minno gone anyway in my opinion

[jazzadogs]

Will the WADA trial be finished before the trade period?

As a player, I'd love him in our backline. As an Essendon player facing a lengthy suspension, I am deeply concerned we're going to dig ourselves a hole.

[bornadog]

Will the WADA trial be finished before the trade period?

As a player, I'd love him in our backline. As an Essendon player facing a lengthy suspension, I am deeply concerned we're going to dig ourselves a hole.

I read somewhere the WADA case may go into the pre-season.

[Templeton31]

to me another key back is the missing link. Roberts Talia and Hamling coming along nicely but Carlisle is a level above those guys. The way he plays defence suits us too - zone off, read the play, float across mark. We'd use him like he's built to play - not like Hird trying to make him a forward. To me he's better than Lonergan (Cats) as he's younger, better mark, more athletic and we threw the kitchen sink at Lonergan last year so I'd be very surprised if, assuming Carlisle's considering leaving, we aren't up to our eyeballs in Jake Carlisle.

[Go_Dogs]

What other key defenders are about that we could look at?

Daniel Talia?
Tom McDonald?
Steven May?
Rory Thompson?
Ryan Schoenmakers?
Robbie Tarrant?

The top 4 would all be big improves to our side and the latter ones I think are entering their best years, are undervalued in a trade scenario and ones I wouldn't be adverse to adding to our list.

[GVGjr]

What other key defenders are about that we could look at?

Daniel Talia?
Tom McDonald?
Steven May?
Rory Thompson?
Ryan Schoenmakers?
Robbie Tarrant?

The top 4 would all be big improves to our side and the latter ones I think are entering their best years, are undervalued in a trade scenario and ones I wouldn't be adverse to adding to our list.

There is of course some of the GWS boys like Plowman and Corr that fit our recruiting profile of young and athletic.

Carlisle is the one who could make the most difference to us but there are some risks.

[jazzadogs]

I feel that we could get May or Thompson for cheaper than Carlisle as well.

[Twodogs]

McCartin is going to be a star. He was the difference between Footscray and whover St. Kildas alignment team is earlier in the year.

[bulldogtragic]

McCartin is going to be a star. He was the difference between Footscray and whover St. Kildas alignment team is earlier in the year.

That's exactly why it's a fair comparison.

[1eyedog]

McCartin is going to be a star. He was the difference between Footscray and whover St. Kildas alignment team is earlier in the year.

God I hate St. Kilda. Topping up with McDonalds Box as soon as cRiewoldt retires.

[Greystache]

McCartin is going to be a star. He was the difference between Footscray and whover St. Kildas alignment team is earlier in the year.

Wrong thread?

[Mofra]

There is of course some of the GWS boys like Plowman and Corr that fit our recruiting profile of young and athletic.

Carlisle is the one who could make the most difference to us but there are some risks.
Schade from the Suns too, although he is still a developing type.
Plowman is tall but isn't he more a rebounding type? I'd like him but is he really going to be that different in playing style to Zaine Cordy? Hammers can also play the tall non-KP type at a pinch too.

[Doc26]

Mark Stevens said on AFL Gameday this morning that the Dogs are out of the running for Jake Carlisle and that he is heading to Carlton. "Lock it in" was his words. He was pretty confident.

It could be a blessing in disguise that Jake has not picked us with the WADA case still ongoing.

If this rumour was true, and Jake was indeed 'locked in,' he would be feeling very blue right now.

[Twodogs]

Yep, I'd be locking myself out again as quickly as possible.

[Happy Days]

Yep, I'd be locking myself out again as quickly as possible.

Throw the keys into the Yarra from the window of a speeding car.

[Templeton31]

Essendon need a ruck man. Big Will and 2nd round pick for Carlisle? I wouldn't want Will to go - I reckon he's part of the fabric of our club. But surely this will at a minimum be thrown up during trade week.

[bornadog]

Essendon need a ruck man. Big Will and 2nd round pick for Carlisle? I wouldn't want Will to go - I reckon he's part of the fabric of our club. But surely this will at a minimum be thrown up during trade week.

I would go with that, but not sure if Essendon would.

[1eyedog]

I would go with that, but not sure if Essendon would.

I would say they definitely won't go for that :D

If we threw in JJ as well they'd consider it.

[G-Mo77]

I keep hearing that Jake is coming here. Sources aren't always right but they are usually pretty good. There is a lot of talk about him so it's hard to weed out the BS. Stevo is usually pretty accurate with Dogs news so I'm not putting much into what I was told and I'll lean towards what he says.

[Bulldog Joe]

I would go with that, but not sure if Essendon would.

It also needs to be something Will agrees to.

He is contracted for 2016.

[jeemak]

It also needs to be something Will agrees to.

He is contracted for 2016.

You would think that if moving to EFC and playing senior football versus staying with us and playing in the reserves was an option for Will he'd be taking the latter - if playing football was what he wanted to do.

Adding Carlisle to defence frees Roughead to contribute in the ruck as well, making Will's position all the more difficult to earn back.

[1eyedog]

It also needs to be something Will agrees to.

He is contracted for 2016.

And therein lies the problem trying to get Carlisle. Who in their right mind would want to go to Essendon to play football at the moment? They have a serious issue with their brand at the moment.

[Bulldog Joe]

And therein lies the problem trying to get Carlisle. Who in their right mind would want to go to Essendon to play football at the moment? They have a serious issue with their brand at the moment.

This is the point I was looking at.

Although Will has done some charity work with Heppell, so it may suit him.

[westdog54]

James Hird, he is the bastion of truthfulness. He once won a pedigree dog in a truth telling contest two towns over.

Surely there were more than three of us that got the bleedingly obvious Simpsons reference here?

well played sir.


You would think that if moving to EFC and playing senior football versus staying with us and playing in the reserves was an option for Will he'd be taking the latter - if playing football was what he wanted to do.

Adding Carlisle to defence frees Roughead to contribute in the ruck as well, making Will's position all the more difficult to earn back.

Could be a win-win for Will that prolongs his career another two or 3 years

[Greystache]

And therein lies the problem trying to get Carlisle. Who in their right mind would want to go to Essendon to play football at the moment? They have a serious issue with their brand at the moment.

I look at Goddard and think who'd want that to be him? He's in a horrendous environment, has a cult leader instead of a coach, and gets rolled out in front of the media every week because he's one of the few not tarred by the doping program. No amount of money is worth that (compared to what they'd earn at an alternative club).

Given the WADA appeal won't be heard before the trade period in all likelihood, you'd have to think only a player with no other options would go to Essendon i.e. McKernan. I see Minson having more options, including staying with us and taking his chances.

[bornadog]

I look at Goddard and think who'd want that to be him? He's in a horrendous environment, has a cult leader instead of a coach, and gets rolled out in front of the media every week because he's one of the few not tarred by the doping program. No amount of money is worth that (compared to what they'd earn at an alternative club).

Given the WADA appeal won't be heard before the trade period in all likelihood, you'd have to think only a player with no other options would go to Essendon i.e. McKernan. I see Minson having more options, including staying with us and taking his chances.

If Carlisle wants to come to us, what would you offer in a deal?

[Greystache]

If Carlisle wants to come to us, what would you offer in a deal?

Unless a player actually wants to go, draft picks. I can't think of many players who'd have so little currency on our list they'd go to Essendon. Out of contract with some form of trade value? Talia and Grant perhaps, but I think Talia at least would have other options. Cordy maybe but he'd only be a sweetener.

Clubs will be reluctant to take Carlisle against his will mind you. He's looks a very average player when he's not happy, so Essendon would want to be careful about playing hardball, he could end up in the PSD.

[Bulldog4life]

I keep hearing that Jake is coming here. Sources aren't always right but they are usually pretty good. There is a lot of talk about him so it's hard to weed out the BS. Stevo is usually pretty accurate with Dogs news so I'm not putting much into what I was told and I'll lean towards what he says.

I thought Stevo said Carlisle was a lock to go to Carlton!

[boydogs]

Essendon need a ruck man. Big Will and 2nd round pick for Carlisle? I wouldn't want Will to go - I reckon he's part of the fabric of our club. But surely this will at a minimum be thrown up during trade week.

I think if we get Carlisle we should trade Talia. Maybe a 3-way

[bornadog]

I thought Stevo said Carlisle was a lock to go to Carlton!

Doesn't mean it's correct

[G-Mo77]

I thought Stevo said Carlisle was a lock to go to Carlton!

Yeah that's what I meant to say in my post. I keep getting told that he's coming here but Stevo's quote about Carlton makes me think it may not be happening.

[bornadog]

Yeah that's what I meant to say in my post. I keep getting told that he's coming here but Stevo's quote about Carlton makes me think it may not be happening.

If you were Carlisle where would you rather play. :)

[Bulldog Joe]

Yeah that's what I meant to say in my post. I keep getting told that he's coming here but Stevo's quote about Carlton makes me think it may not be happening.

Maybe Stevo's was just looking out for our interest and trying to dampen the enthusiasm.

[GVGjr]

If Carlisle wants to come to us, what would you offer in a deal?

Speculation time:

If he genuinely wanted to come I think we would have to use our first round pick in a creative way to get Essendon to agree:

- We cough up our first round pick and get Carlisle and their 2nd round pick.
That gives us a KPD and 2 x 2nd round picks. Essendon has 2 x 1st round picks which isn't bad for a team that has lost some first round picks.

What I think they would try for is:

- We cough up our first round pick and swap 2nd and 3rd round selections with Essendon
That would give us a KPD and an improved position in the each of those rounds.

They won't make it easy on us and I'd prefer not to deal with them.

While Carlisle appears to be the right sort of player we should target, I'm not convinced he would be a great player for us.

[Rocco Jones]

Not a big fan of Carislie seemingly being so unhappy to play outside his ideal role. Seems a bit, I don't know, like what a 5 year old would do.

[Twodogs]

good player, wants to come, we need a player like him, right age group.

WADA appeal hanging over him, lose our first rounder for the second year, choosy about where te plays?

He ticks lots of boxes but the WADA thing could be trouble.

[Mofra]

Not a big fan of Carislie seemingly being so unhappy to play outside his ideal role. Seems a bit, I don't know, like what a 5 year old would do.
Sounds similar to every time Lake was pushed forward.
I'd be happy with Carlisle if we are confident the WADA appeal would not be too serious. TBH I'd be happy with any KPD if we didn't need to spend 5 years developing them, trading for talls is quite different to trading for smalls.

[Doc26]

Being a thin top end talent draft that then spreads out more evenly we could arguably forego our deeper first round selection. Given that Jake would no doubt add extra key position flexibility, that is, being in a position to utilise Roughy in the ruck more often, which is his preferred position, and further provide scope to use Fletch as a swingman as he develops his game its quite an attractive proposition.

I'm not reading much into Jake's 'supposed' dismissive behaviour regarding playing forward. Afterall he does find himself in a highly dysfunctional environment at Essendon where the players have been let down appalling by the football department, administration and where the egos of a few have been left unchecked to reign supreme over the Club. My reading of him is that he is more obliging than what this awful Club has hung him out for.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Just looking at his facial expression and his body language in the last game. He looked like a man who had just had a gutful and couldn't wait for the season to end so he could tell Hird and the Bombers to %$#$%# off.
That's what it looked like to me anyway.

[G-Mo77]

Just looking at his facial expression and his body language in the last game. He looked like a man who had just had a gutful and couldn't wait for the season to end so he could tell Hird and the Bombers to %$#$%# off.
That's what it looked like to me anyway.

I've seen him like that for a long time. Seems like a pretty expressionless guy or maybe he just hasn't been happy for a while.

[Templeton31]

well what did we think after he played against us on the weekend. They were under siege in Bombers defence. Carlisle got a few grabs and seems to read the play well. I sorta thought he would be good for us but not sure he's worth a first rounder?

[always right]

Reckon he's worth our first rounder.

[bulldogtragic]

His captain is following the Ashes in the UK. His good team mates have jumped ship. His coach and board are creating a toxic environment beyond what my vocabulary can muster. They're damn awful and his team mates are at best VFL grade for the most.

In the last year of Rhode, Gilbee in particular looked like he just needed something new. Our 300 game players were accused of playing kick to kick during games. A fresh hope in Eade rejuvenated many players looking like Carlisle is displaying. Carlisle desperately needs a new home and these performance don't reduce his believers, these performances are driving down his market value in trade terms. I'm certain if he accepts the offer from us, which is very close, he will bloom into a very good player. Our Brad Ottens to our tilt.

[comrade]

We're not into him.

Won't be in Bulldogs colours next year.

[azabob]

What we do know for a fact is that Beveridge wants players who can and will play in multiple positions. Is Carlisle willing to play in multiple positions?

[Twodogs]

What we do know for a fact is that Beveridge wants players who can and will play in multiple positions. Is Carlisle willing to play in multiple positions?

He says yes. His manager said that his refusal to play forward wasn't true and he would play where the team needs him too.

[Webby]

What we do know for a fact is that Beveridge wants players who can and will play in multiple positions. Is Carlisle willing to play in multiple positions?

Carlisle's issue is not his position, it's simply the colour of his jumper. Remember Essendon is possibly the most poisonous place in the country right now. By the time the back room, back stabbers were done with Bomber Thompson, they'd completely slandered him. It's a nasty, nasty place. A fractured club, full of factions.

Unfortunately leaving Essendon is like trying to get out of the Mafia. That's why Crameri's performance was so pleasing yesterday.

Richmond basically stopped dead in 1983 and tagged Essendon in as the third biggest club in Victoria. Richmond going from chocolates to boiled lollies for 30+ years. I'm very, very hopeful that the opposite is happening at the moment!

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Mark Stevens said tonight that Fremantle has offered him $800,000 a year

[bulldogtragic]

Mark Stevens said tonight that Fremantle has offered him $800,000 a year

Fold.

[Webby]

Mark Stevens said tonight that Fremantle has offered him $800,000 a year

Fremantle would need to
Offer overs to get a Victorian from a big family with many options to shift to the other side of the country. I don't think we'd need to match that offer. (Nor should we, btw.)

[Doc26]

We're not into him.

Won't be in Bulldogs colours next year.

Comrade, you're sounding particularly adamant / confident on the topic. Is this now from a strong source ?

[ReLoad]

We are nuts if we didn't go after him, he is the missing link.

I think the bumbers will pay massive overs to keep him.

But folks, think of the reaction by the Essendon faithful if he came to us, would be epic lolz.

[Bulldog4life]

We are nuts if we didn't go after him, he is the missing link.

I think the bumbers will pay massive overs to keep him.

But folks, think of the reaction by the Essendon faithful if he came to us, would be epic lolz.

History shows that when it takes this long to resign a player that player walks

[Twodogs]

We are nuts if we didn't go after him, he is the missing link.

I think the bumbers will pay massive overs to keep him.

But folks, think of the reaction by the Essendon faithful if he came to us, would be epic lolz.

You've sold me. It would be worth the money just to see that.

[bornadog]

From Twitter:

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL) 30 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL/status/628340080185208832)
For all the talk about Carlisle heading to the kennel, believe you can absolutely rule out Dogs.

[Happy Days]

From Twitter:

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL) 30 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL/status/628340080185208832)
For all the talk about Carlisle heading to the kennel, believe you can absolutely rule out Dogs.

Operation Get Dangerfield

[ratsmac]

From Twitter:

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL) 30 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL/status/628340080185208832)
For all the talk about Carlisle heading to the kennel, believe you can absolutely rule out Dogs.

Is that social media's poker face.

If we aren't after him I wonder who we are targeting if anyone at all.

[Dry Rot]

From Twitter:

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL) 30 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL/status/628340080185208832)
For all the talk about Carlisle heading to the kennel, believe you can absolutely rule out Dogs.


Thank God for that.

[Templeton31]

Mark Stevens said tonight that Fremantle has offered him $800,000 a year

Based on Sunday's game that's massive overs.

[LostDoggy]

We're not into him.

Won't be in Bulldogs colours next year.
Source?

From Twitter:

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL) 30 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Stevo7AFL/status/628340080185208832)
For all the talk about Carlisle heading to the kennel, believe you can absolutely rule out Dogs.

We weren't chasing percentage on the weekend, we were scouting Jake.

[JohnGentStand]

Operation Get Treloar.
A younger Danger.

[Remi Moses]

Is Trealor a decent kick?
Seems to butcher it often

[Templeton31]

our interest in Carlisle starting to sounds like our supposed interest in Jaksch last year. Went from interested to noises coming from the club definitely not interested. In case of Jakksch I got the impression club (McCartney?) decided not interested due to work ethic or possible attitude. Long bow to draw but maybe Carlisle the same.

[Sedat]

Henderson should be on our radar - is an excellent key defender and also has the ability to be a good swingman. Geelong are into him but they can't get all of Danger, Selwood & Henderson and also keep Motlop. Would not cost more than a 2nd rounder.

[Bulldog4life]

Henderson should be on our radar - is an excellent key defender and also has the ability to be a good swingman. Geelong are into him but they can't get all of Danger, Selwood & Henderson and also keep Motlop. Would not cost more than a 2nd rounder.

As I mentioned on another thread JMac was at the Hawthorn v Carlton match recently so Henderson might be on our radar

[Axe Man]

As I mentioned on another thread JMac was at the Hawthorn v Carlton match recently so Henderson might be on our radar

As long as he isn't thinking of trading Jones or Tutt back in! :eek:

[Bulldog Joe]

As long as he isn't thinking of trading Jones or Tutt back in! :eek:

Probably assessing what Carlton need to see if we can trade Fuller for a 2nd rounder;)

[Rocket Science]

http://i.imgur.com/NUMWOed.jpg

[dog town]

Just reading an article on the new WADA evidence and wondering if there is a chance we have dropped interest all of a sudden due to that? Sounds like Essendon have known for a short period before the media so we may have too through Crameri. Two players potentially out for a long period is a big risk. I don't want Carlisle anyway because I think it's too early to be chasing established players but maybe this explains the sudden drop in interest.

[Mofra]

As long as he isn't thinking of trading Jones or Tutt back in! :eek:
Mods, life ban for the above post please :eek:

[Twodogs]

You want a life ban Mof?

Kind of like self exclusion at the pokies?

[Axe Man]

Mods, life ban for the above post please :eek:

That won't stop me. I'll just come back wearing a false moustache, nobody will suspect a thing!

[divvydan]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out all of this was an act from Carlisle's manager to get a bigger contract for him.

[hujsh]

That won't stop me. I'll just come back wearing a false moustache, nobody will suspect a thing!

Name: Guy Incognito

[Rocket Science]

Bump.

Circa the Hun...

"Clearly frustrated with the club leading up to this week’s move on James Hird, Carlisle let rip against the Giants.

After walked through the interchange lines, Carlisle screamed: “This club is f---ed.’’

Against the Dogs at Etihad Stadium, a match the Bombers lost by 87 points, Carlisle told at least one Bulldogs forward that he was counting down the matches before leaving at the end of the season.

The third spray occurred in Saturday’s loss to the Crows.

Carlisle’s teammate have been told of a conversation between Carlisle and Crows forwards, where Carlisle went even further and said he didn’t care about the result because he would not be at the club next year."

They're one big happy family at Windy Hill, aren't they?

[bulldogtragic]

Read that too. Wow. I think he can't be the only one feeling the same. Exodus maybe?

[LostDoggy]

Apparently they have 20 players out of contract.

Also heard Jobe Watson is off to the Gold Coast.

It's gonna be ugly.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

To whichever club he goes (or stays), he's definitely going to need to prove that his attitude can be changed.

I like him as a player and can understand his poor form/frustrations (along with all players involved in the saga) but he's not painting the greatest picture of himself.

[Rocco Jones]

To whichever club he goes (or stays), he's definitely going to need to prove that his attitude can be changed.

I like him as a player and can understand his poor form/frustrations (along with all players involved in the saga) but he's not painting the greatest picture of himself.

I've thought that for awhile. As much as I don't like Essendon/Hird, his sulking about not playing where he wants to play isn't the type of thing i want at our club.

[westdog54]

To think he's actually been getting up and playing every week with that sort of stuff running through his head.

I wonder how hard its been fit someone like Dyson Heppell to tow the party line. Then there's always a flog like Brendon Goddard who can't get enough of the Kool Aid.

[LostDoggy]

I guess the alternate question for a recruiter would be (for any of the Bombres); how much can this guy improve once out of this putrid environment?

I don't have a strong opinion on Carlisle but I bet there are some hidden gems on that list (a la Biggs, Hamling) that could improve out of sight if they just had a good home.

If there are, our guys are as likely as anyone to identify them and get them for a song, given Bombres bargaining position.

[whythelongface]

I've thought that for awhile. As much as I don't like Essendon/Hird, his sulking about not playing where he wants to play isn't the type of thing i want at our club.

There are a number of reasons as to why he could be acting like he is, one of which could well be his mental state of mind. The crap that these players have been dragged through would play havoc on one's state of mind. They have been used; manipulated; lied to and shown little support by their employer. It certainly wouldn't do any wonders for morale around the joint.

A change of employer could well do the lad wonders.

[Doc26]

There are a number of reasons as to why he could be acting like he is, one of which could well be his mental state of mind. The crap that these players have been dragged through would play havoc on one's state of mind. They have been used; manipulated; lied to and shown little support by their employer. It certainly wouldn't do any wonders for morale around the joint.

A change of employer could well do the lad wonders.

I agree.

And Carlisle was one of very few Essendon players that Thompson and co. seemed happy to hang out there on his lonesome among that putrid bunch and have his behaviour put up for public / media ridicule but hey we'll send our Captain off to England to watch The Ashes mid season for a refresher because he's mentally exhausted.

His Club are the instigators of this perilous state that they find themselves in and His Club are the ones that put it out into the domain about his apparent lack of willingness to do the team thing and play forward. Everyone knows this because they trashed him in the media. What about their big prize recruit Goddard being put out there instead for knocking up cheap stats week in week out.

They've done a great job of trashing their brand as well as Jake's in my view, add god knows what that regime might have injected into the lad, and now a looming WADA/CAS ban hanging over his head, he has a fair case to be very disillusioned right now.

[boydogs]

now a looming WADA/CAS ban hanging over his head

I think they know they're gone now, WADA are doing "whatever it takes" to deliver a conviction including developing new tests for 2012 samples

Maybe we did our due diligence for Crameri but WADA getting involved is a different ball game

[GVGjr]

To whichever club he goes (or stays), he's definitely going to need to prove that his attitude can be changed.

I like him as a player and can understand his poor form/frustrations (along with all players involved in the saga) but he's not painting the greatest picture of himself.


I think he will struggle to find a home at big money. He's not focused on his footy and I don't think he has the sort of maturity or the type of attitude most clubs would want. He will find a home but he could be a handful for other clubs.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think he will struggle to find a home at big money. He's not focused on his footy and I don't think he has the sort of maturity or the type of attitude most clubs would want. He will find a home but he could be a handful for other clubs.

It's becoming increasingly so, which is a shame, because at his best Carlisle can be a match winner and match saver but more than ever clubs are realising you need great character to play the game. That's one thing McCartney seemingly did quite well.

At the same time, clubs should do their due diligence with the likes of Carlisle and Bennell.

[Remi Moses]

Bump.

Circa the Hun...

"Clearly frustrated with the club leading up to this week’s move on James Hird, Carlisle let rip against the Giants.

After walked through the interchange lines, Carlisle screamed: “This club is f---ed.’’

Against the Dogs at Etihad Stadium, a match the Bombers lost by 87 points, Carlisle told at least one Bulldogs forward that he was counting down the matches before leaving at the end of the season.

The third spray occurred in Saturday’s loss to the Crows.

Carlisle’s teammate have been told of a conversation between Carlisle and Crows forwards, where Carlisle went even further and said he didn’t care about the result because he would not be at the club next year."

They're one big happy family at Windy Hill, aren't they?

That I think was the conversation he was having down the cheer squad end with Stew Crameri.

[always right]

Herald Sun reporting that Carlton are shaping as Carlisle's preferred destination. Find this hard to fathom unles they are the only club wiling to satisfy his financial demands....and money is his main motivation.

Otherwise I'm struggling to comprehend why a player so disenchanted with their current unhappy environment would move to a club who are likely to go through just as much short to medium term pain.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Herald Sun reporting that Carlton are shaping as Carlisle's preferred destination. Find this hard to fathom unles they are the only club wiling to satisfy his financial demands....and money is his main motivation.

Otherwise I'm struggling to comprehend why a player so disenchanted with their current unhappy environment would move to a club who are likely to go through just as much short to medium term pain.

Plenty of rumours circulating that there might be "cultural" issues if he is added to a list. Carlton may be the only club willing to risk that

[Mofra]

I don't have a strong opinion on Carlisle but I bet there are some hidden gems on that list (a la Biggs, Hamling) that could improve out of sight if they just had a good home.

If there are, our guys are as likely as anyone to identify them and get them for a song, given Bombres bargaining position.
I'm with you - pick at their carcass, no mercy for the arrogant bastards.
The football world has put up with their smarmy attitude for too long, payback time I say.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Lachie Henderson gone from Carlton, Jon Ralph of the Herald Sun claiming "Something would have to go drastically wrong for Henderson not to get to the Cats next year. Birregurra boy. Has requested a trade today" and The Sun claiming "Henderson’s departure means the Blues are likely to ramp up its pursuit of disgruntled Essendon swingman Jake Carlisle who is out of contract at the end of the season."

[Twodogs]

Lachie Henderson gone from Carlton, Jon Ralph of the Herald Sun claiming "Something would have to go drastically wrong for Henderson not to get to the Cats next year. Birregurra boy. Has requested a trade today" and The Sun claiming "Henderson’s departure means the Blues are likely to ramp up its pursuit of disgruntled Essendon swingman Jake Carlisle who is out of contract at the end of the season."


Carlton still don't get it. They'll piss perfectly good draft picks on Jake Carlisle. They may as well reappoint Malthouse while they are at it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Carlton still don't get it. They'll piss perfectly good draft picks on Jake Carlisle. They may as well reappoint Malthouse while they are at it.

i rekon Carlisle is perfect for Carlton - he'll keep them on their current trajectory :D

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think we're good for tall defenders. Our defense, actually is VERY solid, even without Roughead and Roberts. I'd just be investing in silk and pace in the midfield. Jack martin (in fantasy land) I got so used to thinking he was gonna be ours, I can't quite let go of the dream.

[1eyedog]

I think we're good for tall defenders. Our defense, actually is VERY solid, even without Roughead and Roberts. I'd just be investing in silk and pace in the midfield. Jack martin (in fantasy land) I got so used to thinking he was gonna be ours, I can't quite let go of the dream.

We'll find out just how solid it is this Sunday.

[Doc26]

We'll find out just how solid it is this Sunday.

The next two weeks in particular will be a great test to see how much improvement has been made in areas of the ground where we once/recently saw ourselves as vulnerable, largely in the ruck and defence, where both WCE and North are more than capable of exploiting if indeed we have any holes. Given that we haven't played a team in the 8 since round 7, I'm looking forward to these 2 weeks more than any in recent months as they should provide great insight as to where we're at.

[Templeton31]

One of the interesting things about the Huns back page today is who leaked that story to Robinson. Robb has been so in Hirds camp through this whole thing its almost been embarrassing.

Hird sacked on Tuesday and this Carlisle story is back page story on Thursday? includes a paragraph about how Carlisle was close to Hird.... I mean really.

[Cyberdoggie]

The vultures will be swooping on the bones of that club now that the Hird is gone.
People that were in his camp have no allegiances any more and it will be every man for himself.

May be a real distraction to the finals this year.

[bornadog]

Rumours


Carlton are likely to face competition for Carlisle’s signature from North Melbourne and St Kilda, but it is understood the Western Bulldogs have cooled their interest.
- Fox Footy

[Ghost Dog]

Rumours

That's good. I don't want him. Bit of a sulk but Bevo could possibly straighten him out.
You don't stand around in the goal square dissing your own club and talking about your contract. It's not very professional .

[1eyedog]

North Melbourne have become the biggest mercenaries in the comp trying to bag a flag. They just don't have the midfield to sustain a good run at it. An aging Harvey taking up a spot, a plethora of one way runners and very few young talented mids coming through. Hope it works out for them.

[bornadog]

North Melbourne have become the biggest mercenaries in the comp trying to bag a flag. They just don't have the midfield to sustain a good run at it. An aging Harvey taking up a spot, a plethora of one way runners and very few young talented mids coming through. Hope it works out for them.

Dads army just re-signed Harvey and Petrie.

[Twodogs]

Harvey is amazing but he is just losing a yard. Now would be the right time if the club was rebuilding but they are convinced there's a flag in this group so giving him another year makes sense to that deranged way of thinking I guess.

[LostDoggy]

I guess the alternate question for a recruiter would be (for any of the Bombres); how much can this guy improve once out of this putrid environment?

I don't have a strong opinion on Carlisle but I bet there are some hidden gems on that list (a la Biggs, Hamling) that could improve out of sight if they just had a good home.

If there are, our guys are as likely as anyone to identify them and get them for a song, given Bombres bargaining position.
Dodoro.

I think he will struggle to find a home at big money. He's not focused on his footy and I don't think he has the sort of maturity or the type of attitude most clubs would want. He will find a home but he could be a handful for other clubs.
this. It will all depend on what dollar he wants.

[Doc26]

Most likely unfounded like most on this topic but the latest on AFL.com.au now has us apparently leading the race for Jake.

A snippet taken from Nick Bowen's article.


Clubs are prepared to offer him up to $700,000 to bolster their defences from 2016.

The Western Bulldogs are believed to lead the chase for Carlisle from Carlton, North Melbourne and St Kilda.

The Bomber would also be a perfect fit for the Lions and Fremantle, but he is unlikely to leave Victoria.

Edit:

I've noticed since this article was uploaded that the key piece above has now been edited to read.


Clubs are prepared to offer him up to $700,000 to bolster their defences from 2016.

The pack leading the chase for Carlisle is believed to include Carlton, North Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs.

The Bomber would also be a perfect fit for the Lions and Fremantle, but he is unlikely to leave Victoria.

Someone obviously wasn't happy with the original.

[jeemak]

Carlisle is perfect for Carlton, and Carlton is perfect for him in a football sense.

He's a young and true back that only wants to play back, and any budding coach wants to start - for the most part - in not having goals scored against their teams. Carlisle will help that no end.

If Carlton do things properly they will only be three years struggling before they climb again. Carlisle will be 26-27 and a leader at the club when they're in a position for finals again.

[1eyedog]

Most likely unfounded like most on this topic but the latest on AFL.com.au now has us apparently leading the race for Jake.

A snippet taken from Nick Bowen's article.

Wow, the media is making us out to be schizophrenic desperados. We want him, we don't want him, we want him, we don't want him. And what does leading the chase mean? We've offered the most? He's said he prefers us? What?

This all tells me no one knows where he's going, including Jake. When's the draft period? Is it prior to the WADA hearing at the court of arbitration for sport? Wonder how many clubs are holding out for that result.

[Twodogs]

Carlisle is perfect for Carlton, and Carlton is perfect for him in a football sense.

He's a young and true back that only wants to play back, and any budding coach wants to start - for the most part - in not having goals scored against their teams. Carlisle will help that no end.

If Carlton do things properly they will only be three years struggling before they climb again. Carlisle will be 26-27 and a leader at the club when they're in a position for finals again.


Not if he gets banned for two years. While that's unlikely WADA's recent actions make it more likely than it was two weeks ago.

[Hot_Doggies]

North Melbourne have become the biggest mercenaries in the comp trying to bag a flag. They just don't have the midfield to sustain a good run at it. An aging Harvey taking up a spot, a plethora of one way runners and very few young talented mids coming through. Hope it works out for them.

Akermanis, Sherman and Vezpremi.....

[Mofra]

I think we're good for tall defenders. Our defense, actually is VERY solid, even without Roughead and Roberts.
Morris won't last forever, Roberts has never completed a season without getting injured, Roughy seems more like a utility, Hamling is solid but may not be able to take the gorillas, Talia's form worries me.
I think we're ok when injury free, but we lack depth.

[bornadog]

Morris won't last forever, Roberts has never completed a season without getting injured, Roughy seems more like a utility, Hamling is solid but may not be able to take the gorillas, Talia's form worries me.
I think we're ok when injury free, but we lack depth.

We do need someone to take the gorillas.

[1eyedog]

Akermanis, Sherman and Vezpremi.....

We were a better team then than they are now. They're kidding themselves.

[stefoid]

We do need someone to take the gorillas.

Well, that has to be talias job to become a stopper on the oppositions best genuine key forward - 195cm version of Morris.

[Ghost Dog]

Dustin Fletcher has done pretty well on Gorillas over his career. Do you have to be a Gorilla to stop them? Maybe not, as long as you have core strength, height, pace, and long arms.

[Mofra]

Dustin Fletcher has done pretty well on Gorillas over his career. Do you have to be a Gorilla to stop them? Maybe not, as long as you have core strength, height, pace, and long arms.
Hence my concern


It's been a decade since Fletcher has taken the no 1 opposition defender though

[LostDoggy]

Just reading through these last few posts, a thought struck me.

We all love to have a full back who looks like he can stand the gorillas, but when you think of the great full-backs of the modern game, they haven't necessarily been huge men, more typically the lean athletic type who compete in the air more through their guile than sheer strength.

I'm thinking Dustin Fletcher, Alex Rance, Steven Silvagni, Matthew Scarlett, David Dench, Kelvin Moore, Geoff Southby, Matthew Croft, Michael Johnson, Andrew Dunkley, Mal Michael etc.

These are the sorts of players that work well with our style of defence as well.

No real point, just an observation.

[Ghost Dog]

Hence my concern


It's been a decade since Fletcher has taken the no 1 opposition defender though


Just reading through these last few posts, a thought struck me.

We all love to have a full back who looks like he can stand the gorillas, but when you think of the great full-backs of the modern game, they haven't necessarily been huge men, more typically the lean athletic type who compete in the air more through their guile than sheer strength.

I'm thinking Dustin Fletcher, Alex Rance, Steven Silvagni, Matthew Scarlett, David Dench, Kelvin Moore, Geoff Southby, Matthew Croft, Michael Johnson, Andrew Dunkley, Mal Michael etc.

These are the sorts of players that work well with our style of defence as well.

No real point, just an observation.

Agree with you there Peanuts. Ability to read the play is a big one. Scarlett was always superior in that area. Defenders need to cover a lot of ground and be able to rebound well. Lukas Marcovic was never going to help us much in that area.

[1eyedog]

The game has changed though obviously and so has the morphology of players. Back in the day SOS et al. were playing on FF who were 186-190cm (Dunstall, Ablett, Modra), now FF are well over 195cm (Kennedy, Tippett, Cloke, Cameron, Hawkins, Dixon). It's not enough to have pace and long arms and be able to rebound the ball, you need size against these guys because they are so big and strong one on one.

[LostDoggy]

No doubt you need to be around the 195 mark to be a key position player these days (as Hamling, Roberts, Talia all are).

I still reckon the most influential and successful key defenders, even in todays game, are more the athletic types than the one on one gorilla types.

Last year Alex Rance and Daniel Talia were All-Australian KPD, other recents include Ted Richards, Harry Taylor and the like. This year most experts have Rance and Hurley posted in.

These guys are more athletic talls than gorillas.

[1eyedog]

I think you need to be both, which is why they are so hard to find and why Carlisle and Hendo are getting so much exposure. It's massive that two big out of favour / contract mobile key defenders are on the table at this year's draft and clubs are salivating. There are 6-8 teams chasing them.

[boydogs]

When's the draft period? Is it prior to the WADA hearing at the court of arbitration for sport? Wonder how many clubs are holding out for that result.

WADA's hearing is expected to carry on until 2016

[GVGjr]

Morris won't last forever, Roberts has never completed a season without getting injured, Roughy seems more like a utility, Hamling is solid but may not be able to take the gorillas, Talia's form worries me.
I think we're ok when injury free, but we lack depth.

We certainly need to look at adding to the depth of key defenders. The good part is I think there will be a few players we might be able to look at from other clubs.

[1eyedog]

We certainly need to look at adding to the depth of key defenders. The good part is I think there will be a few players we might be able to look at from other clubs.

Who do you fancy from those available?

[Twodogs]

Who do you fancy from those available?


Ariel Steinbern after last nights effort on Tom Boyd.

[azabob]

Ariel Steinbern after last nights effort on Tom Boyd.

Pony tailed kid? If so, no freakin way.

[G-Mo77]

Pony tailed kid? If so, no freakin way.

No it's a man bun. You must be thinking of someone else. :D

[Doc26]

We certainly need to look at adding to the depth of key defenders. The good part is I think there will be a few players we might be able to look at from other clubs.

Would Rory Thompson be in the frame ?

[Twodogs]

Pony tailed kid? If so, no freakin way.

Yep. I was just kidding. Tom was the author of most of his own problems last night. Steinbern just happened to be standing next to him (or running off him) most of the time.

[GVGjr]

Would Rory Thompson be in the frame ?

He could be. I'd add, Jake Wilson and Mitch Brown from the VFL as players that could provide that depth. I'd also think we can draft a key defender this year from the junior competitions and I think there might be a player or two from GWS that will be looking for another home.

[LostDoggy]

Nick Coughlan is another. He is a good chance to be at least Rookie listed.

[Twodogs]

Nick Coughlan is another. He is a good chance to be at least Rookie listed.

He's tall enough to take the monitors but would take a lot of physical development to get to that stage. He might play AFL next year and be a success or we could have to wait. From what I've seen this year he is the sort of natural footballer with good football smarts that Dalrymple rates.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah, I don't think he's a short term prospect by any means, but could be a lower or rookie pick later this year for KPD depth down the track.

Hasn't been training with Footscray all that long but I have heard he has made a pretty good impression.

Is a good size, fairly mobile and still a teenager.

[1eyedog]

He could be. I'd add, Jake Wilson and Mitch Brown from the VFL as players that could provide that depth. I'd also think we can draft a key defender this year from the junior competitions and I think there might be a player or two from GWS that will be looking for another home.

No talls out of contract up there this year, would have to do a Tom Boyd.

[1eyedog]

We'll find out just how solid it is this Sunday.

Ok so our KD stocks are not solid. Talia is all at sea at the moemnt and Hamling is too slight to play on big forwards. Roberts is injury prone and untested IMO and Roughead while he has shown form down there it looks like we're going to need him in the ruck.

We need a Carlisle / Henderson to help out. Someone with a few years more experience than our current crop and someone with more weight than Roberts and Hamling and more experience than Talia. Wish we did have Lonergan for the next few years. Macca identified the gap and went hard, time for bevo to do the same.

[bornadog]

Ok so our KD stocks are not solid. Talia is all at sea at the moemnt and Hamling is too slight to play on big forwards. Roberts is injury prone and untested IMO and Roughead while he has shown form down there it looks like we're going to need him in the ruck.

We need a Carlisle / Henderson to help out. Someone with a few years more experience than our current crop and someone with more weight than Roberts and Hamling and more experience than Talia. Wish we did have Lonergan for the next few years. Macca identified the gap and went hard, time for bevo to do the same.

About time some one agrees with me. I have said all along that Hamling is not a KPP (yet), Talia can't play gorillas and Roughead is better in the ruck. Roberts I think will get there, but still needs experience.

[GVGjr]

About time some one agrees with me. I have said all along that Hamling is not a KPP (yet), Talia can't play gorillas and Roughead is better in the ruck. Roberts I think will get there, but still needs experience.
I don't Roughead could handle rucking over a season.

[1eyedog]

I don't Roughead could handle rucking over a season.

How would we know?

[GVGjr]

How would we know?
I think his injuries are a pretty good indicator that he would struggle.

[1eyedog]

I reckon he's had a pretty good run at it generally. He's becoming stronger and certainly fitter and has shown that he can play ruck. He's just as liky to get injured at full back which is an extremely demanding high impact on the body position.

[Twodogs]

I think his injuries are a pretty good indicator that he would struggle.


I don't think that Ive ever seen him win more than the odd ruck contest either. It's not like he's a machine that wins tap out after tap out.

[1eyedog]

I reckon he has to develop into the role. He's not going to come in and dominate. He's certainly looked better there than Cordy and Campbell. Its really his shoulders that are the issue.

[GVGjr]

I don't think that Ive ever seen him win more than the odd ruck contest either. It's not like he's a machine that wins tap out after tap out.

The big hope for him when he first arrived at the club was to be the 2nd string ruckman but who could be a productive forward. That never panned out like we hoped and like you, I'm yet to see him control a game as the number one ruckman.

I think Boyd and Roughead assisting the number one ruckman (whoever that might be) is the best set-up for us. I rate Roughead but I genuinely have some doubts about him stringing together a number of games as the number one ruckman.

[Ghost Dog]

Carlisle to us might be what Lake.was to Hawthorn.

[bornadog]

Brad Scott has confirmed the clubs interest is Essendon's Jake Carlisle.

[1eyedog]

The big hope for him when he first arrived at the club was to be the 2nd string ruckman but who could be a productive forward. That never panned out like we hoped and like you, I'm yet to see him control a game as the number one ruckman.

I think Boyd and Roughead assisting the number one ruckman (whoever that might be) is the best set-up for us. I rate Roughead but I genuinely have some doubts about him stringing together a number of games as the number one ruckman.

No-one has, he simply hasn't played enough minutes in that role.

[GVGjr]

No-one has, he simply hasn't played enough minutes in that role.

Do you believe he is capable of rucking game after game at a good level? Based on what we have seen I'm a little surprised why so many think he could hold down the number one spot.
If he was better as a forward then a Campbell and Roughead combination might work well but I think he has been far more productive as a key defender.

[bornadog]

Do you believe he is capable of rucking game after game at a good level? Based on what we have seen I'm a little surprised why so many think he could hold down the number one spot.
If he was better as a forward then a Campbell and Roughead combination might work well but I think he has been far more productive as a key defender.

He is a good tap ruckman.

[GVGjr]

He is a good tap ruckman.

He's okay but I'd rate him as decent more than good. I still wonder how he would go over a 6 week stint.

[ReLoad]

Rightio. Time to get serious.

We need Jake Carslile and here are the 10 reasons why;

1. We need someone to take the monsters, no matter how much we love roughy, he can't do it.
2. We need someone in the right age bracket for the journey we are embarking on.
3. They need to be super fit for our game plan, he has a huge athletic capacity.
4. We can troll Essendon again.
5. We don't have anyone with significant tattoos in the team, we need this to appeal to the ink minority of supporters.
6. His first name is Jake.
7. We can keep trolling Essendon again and again and again.....
8. A player of his size in finals is critical, there will be lengthy periods of the ball being bombed in, we need someone to bring it to ground for our half backs.
9. It would free Easton wood up and allow him to intercept like a madman again.
10. Dale Morris body can't stay attached together forever.

[comrade]

Rightio. Time to get serious.

We need Jake Carslile and here are the 10 reasons why;

1. We need someone to take the monsters, no matter how much we love roughy, he can't do it.
2. We need someone in the right age bracket for the journey we are embarking on.
3. They need to be super fit for our game plan, he has a huge athletic capacity.
4. We can troll Essendon again.
5. We don't have anyone with significant tattoos in the team, we need this to appeal to the ink minority of supporters.
6. His first name is Jake.
7. We can keep trolling Essendon again and again and again.....
8. A player of his size in finals is critical, there will be lengthy periods of the ball being bombed in, we need someone to bring it to ground for our half backs.
9. It would free Easton wood up and allow him to intercept like a madman again.
10. Dale Morris body can't stay attached together forever.

He's not coming to us. Ever.

[GVGjr]

Rightio. Time to get serious.

We need Jake Carslile and here are the 10 reasons why;



He is the type of footballer we need but we have to find a better version of him. Along the lines of what Comrade said, I don't think he will be playing for us next year.

[LostDoggy]

Rightio. Time to get serious.

We need Jake Carslile and here are the 10 reasons why;

1. We need someone to take the monsters, no matter how much we love roughy, he can't do it.
2. We need someone in the right age bracket for the journey we are embarking on.
3. They need to be super fit for our game plan, he has a huge athletic capacity.
4. We can troll Essendon again.
5. We don't have anyone with significant tattoos in the team, we need this to appeal to the ink minority of supporters.
6. His first name is Jake.
7. We can keep trolling Essendon again and again and again.....
8. A player of his size in finals is critical, there will be lengthy periods of the ball being bombed in, we need someone to bring it to ground for our half backs.
9. It would free Easton wood up and allow him to intercept like a madman again.
10. Dale Morris body can't stay attached together forever.

Excellent point.

Whether it's Carlisle or another 100 kger, the lack of a power kpd is really compromising Wood's ability to attack the incoming play or to run off too aggresively.

[Bulldog4life]

Excellent point.

Whether it's Carlisle or another 100 kger, the lack of a power kpd is really compromising Wood's ability to attack the incoming play or to run off too aggresively.

Wilson the full back for Werribee is a big bodied full back Thought he played well today

[GVGjr]

Wilson the full back for Werribee is a big bodied full back Thought he played well today

He's a decent prospect. I quite like him, Brown and Hartley as potential key defenders from the VFL

[LostDoggy]

Coughlan??

[1eyedog]

Do you believe he is capable of rucking game after game at a good level? Based on what we have seen I'm a little surprised why so many think he could hold down the number one spot.
If he was better as a forward then a Campbell and Roughead combination might work well but I think he has been far more productive as a key defender.

I'm confident he can ruck and he adds value that he can go forward and kick goals. I'm not confident he can ruck week after week for the next few years but I'm yet to be convinced that he can't. Given our sordid ruck stocks I'm not entirely sure where I sit with it. Do you believe Roughie is too good down back to be wasted in the ruck?

[GVGjr]

I'm confident he can ruck and he adds value that he can go forward and kick goals. I'm not confident he can ruck week after week for the next few years but I'm yet to be convinced that he can't. Given our sordid ruck stocks I'm not entirely sure where I sit with it. Do you believe Roughie is too good down back to be wasted in the ruck?

I think he is injury prone when he is asked to ruck a lot and would prefer him to be used as a defender with a few 5 minute bursts during a game. He can ruck the occasional game but I couldn't see him getting through a 6 or 7 week stint at a good level. Happy to be proven wrong.

I think he is a solid defender and a good leader and would prefer to see him on the ground more than off it.

[LostDoggy]

I think he is injury prone when he is asked to ruck a lot and would prefer him to be used as a defender with a few 5 minute bursts during a game. He can ruck the occasional game but I couldn't see him getting through a 6 or 7 week stint at a good level. Happy to be proven wrong.

I think he is a solid defender and a good leader and would prefer to see him on the ground more than off it.

I agree with this. For a couple of weeks we used Roughy as the key defender/second ruck. Basically followed the tall forward who is also the opposition second ruckmen when he goes into the ruck. I think that is his best role in our side.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with this. For a couple of weeks we used Roughy as the key defender/second ruck. Basically followed the tall forward who is also the opposition second ruckmen when he goes into the ruck. I think that is his best role in our side.

I reckon the way we set up under Bevo, this can only work if the first ruck can fill in for Roughy when he swaps over. Our team defence play as a unit, having your lynch pin in and out of the unit intermittently through the match is not the way to go.

[Greystache]

I reckon the way we set up under Bevo, this can only work if the first ruck can fill in for Roughy when he swaps over. Our team defence play as a unit, having your lynch pin in and out of the unit intermittently through the match is not the way to go.

Players rotate constantly on and off the bench through out a game. There'd barely be a time where we'd have the same combination of 6 players in defence at same time.

[LostDoggy]

Not guys like Hamling and Morris who are the lynch pins of the structure.

[1eyedog]

I think he is injury prone when he is asked to ruck a lot and would prefer him to be used as a defender with a few 5 minute bursts during a game. He can ruck the occasional game but I couldn't see him getting through a 6 or 7 week stint at a good level. Happy to be proven wrong.

I think he is a solid defender and a good leader and would prefer to see him on the ground more than off it.

Fair enough. I still think he's good enough to play there and he wants to play there so it feels like we're robbing Peter to play Paul by not trying it because of the risk he may get injured. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Templeton31]

So Carlisle has said he wants out of Bombers. He hasn't nominated a club yet which suggests to me its a club in the finals currently. Perhaps Norf? Brad Scott sounded confident in press conference a few weeks ago. I still maintain he would be a very good addition for us - a key defender which is a weakness for us and still young.

[LostDoggy]

North supporters are pretty confident of getting him. Apparently NM and Carlton main players for him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So Carlisle has said he wants out of Bombers. He hasn't nominated a club yet which suggests to me its a club in the finals currently. Perhaps Norf? Brad Scott sounded confident in press conference a few weeks ago. I still maintain he would be a very good addition for us - a key defender which is a weakness for us and still young.

I'd hope we haven't completely ruled it out either. For the right price he'd be a handy addition to our back half given we still rely so much on Morris (and other older heads) with a bare cupboard in quality KPDs.

[bornadog]

This is funny

Titus O'Reily ‏@TitusOReily (https://twitter.com/TitusOReily)
Jake Carlisle gave no warning he was going to leave Essendon, except for telling every opposition player in the last few months.

[Greystache]

Slobbo tweeting Essendon will get a first and second rounder for whoever gets Carlisle :rolleyes:

And in other equally unsurprising news, James Hird reportedly didn't see Carlisle's leaving coming.

[LostDoggy]

Slobbo tweeting Essendon will get a first and second rounder for whoever gets Carlisle :rolleyes:

And in other equally unsurprising news, James Hird reportedly didn't see Carlisle's leaving coming.

Slobbo really lets himself down with his Essendon bias.

[Sedat]

Slobbo tweeting Essendon will get a first and second rounder for whoever gets Carlisle :rolleyes:

And in other equally unsurprising news, James Hird reportedly didn't see Carlisle's leaving coming.
He'll end up going to Carlton for pick 1 in the PSD precisely because Essendon will demand Carlton's 1st and 2nd round pick as well as Cripps. Suck it up Slobbo.

Oh and Slobbo, "the players loved Hird" - that's why they were ten times more competitive as soon as that dead wood was cut adrift :D

[Ghost Dog]

Rohan Conolly, supposedly an Essendon supporter wrote in an article that Essendon are too much trouble to deal with during trade period. Hopefully it's true!

[azabob]

Rohan Conolly, supposedly an Essendon supporter wrote in an article that Essendon are too much trouble to deal with during trade period. Hopefully it's true!

They are. It is well known. But why do you hope its true?

[Ghost Dog]

They are. It is well known. But why do you hope its true?

Because as Sedat suggests, it's more likely to hurt them.

[Templeton31]

Age reporting it has confirmed Dogs not interested in Carlisle.

[bulldogtragic]

Robbo on 360 said Bevo has 'character objections' about Carlisle. Was pretty strong on Bevo drawing a line on him for some reason. Being that Bevo was on the show tonight, and talking backstage etc, you'd think there might be something to it.

[bornadog]

Robbo on 360 said Bevo has 'character objections' about Carlisle. Was pretty strong on Bevo drawing a line on him for some reason. Being that Bevo was on the show tonight, and talking backstage etc, you'd think there might be something to it.

Bevo invoking the no dickheads policy ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo invoking the no dickheads policy ;)

That's carved into the wall in the head coaches room isn't it?

[Dry Rot]

Robbo on 360 said Bevo has 'character objections' about Carlisle. Was pretty strong on Bevo drawing a line on him for some reason. Being that Bevo was on the show tonight, and talking backstage etc, you'd think there might be something to it.

I dunno what Bevo is hinting at here about Carlisle's off field problems, but I've heard a real big one.

What I heard was that at Carlisle's last club there was a bloke called Hird, who knew a bloke called Dank and apparently there was some funny injecting business with over 30 Bombers players, and then some mob called ASADA got involved, and I've heard another mob called WADA is now involved and the players will get rubbed out for 2 years.

Anyone else head this? If true, I wouldn't be getting Carlisle......

[Ghost Dog]

No dickheads policy and Robbo in the same sentence. Ironic.

[KT31]

Bevo invoking the no dickheads policy ;)

Then he would have spoken to Robbo.:D

[Twodogs]

I dunno what Bevo is hinting at here about Carlisle's off field problems, but I've heard a real big one.

What I heard was that at Carlisle's last club there was a bloke called Hird, who knew a bloke called Dank and apparently there was some funny injecting business with over 30 Bombers players, and then some mob called ASADA got involved, and I've heard another mob called WADA is now involved and the players will get rubbed out for 2 years.

Anyone else head this? If true, I wouldn't be getting Carlisle......

Good enough reason for me. We don't need to be paying two players to not play.