It might not have been too noticed today

[bulldogtragic]

But the AFL have hit the Essendon players, presumably Stew Crameri too with notices. We knew this day might happen. How long should we be factoring in him being suspended for?

ASADA and/or WADA will no doubt appeal any apparent perceived lenient suspensions.

[Scraggers]

I think six months per player ... That would take them to the first(ish) week in May.

Means they would miss five weeks of footy.

[bulldogtragic]

I think six months per player ... That would take them to the first(ish) week in May.

Means they would miss five weeks of footy.

I'm not as across this as others, but I thought I recall suspensions need to be served 'in season'.

[boydogs]

I think six months per player

Backdated to 2012. No justice, but that's my tip.

[Dry Rot]

At least 12 months from now. And that's if they are lucky, since none of them have co-operated before the issuing of infraction notices.

[Dry Rot]

I think six months per player ... That would take them to the first(ish) week in May.

Means they would miss five weeks of footy.

On what basis would they only serve a quarter of the penalty?

[mighty_west]

On what basis would they only serve a quarter of the penalty?

That the players were simply used as guinea pigs and would have been told it was all fine, if you can't trust your professional sporting club who can you trust?, as for Hird, should be banned for life!

[Topdog]

That the players were simply used as guinea pigs and would have been told it was all fine, if you can't trust your professional sporting club who can you trust?, as for Hird, should be banned for life!

yep not a defence that can be used though

[Dry Rot]

yep not a defence that can be used though

Agreed.

Imagine if all this involved a swimming or cycling team. They would have the book thrown at them.

[bornadog]

That the players were simply used as guinea pigs and would have been told it was all fine, if you can't trust your professional sporting club who can you trust?, as for Hird, should be banned for life!

I don't trust my Doctor injecting anything into me, until I ask a few questions. If I was a professional athlete, I would really not trust anyone until i had it checked and verified.

Having said that, I can imagine in a team situation, and being 21, 22 years old and all your mates are doing it, and you don't want to be the odd one out, than I can see how it could happen. I know its no excuse, but I can see it from the players point of view.

[Greystache]

I don't trust my Doctor injecting anything into me, until I ask a few questions. If I was a professional athlete, I would really not trust anyone until i had it checked and verified.

Having said that, I can imagine in a team situation, and being 21, 22 years old and all your mates are doing it, and you don't want to be the odd one out, than I can see how it could happen. I know its no excuse, but I can see it from the players point of view.

It's not an argument that will hold up as a defence, but there must have been unimaginable pressure on the players to tow the line. You only need to read some of documents that have become public to see what Hird did to ostracize anyone who tried to challenge the program, and they weren't even under his direct control.

Having an ego maniac in a position of power with almost unchallenged authority is a terrible situation for many people.

[Hotdog60]

It's not an argument that will hold up as a defence, but there must have been unimaginable pressure on the players to tow the line. You only need to read some of documents that have become public to see what Hird did to ostracize anyone who tried to challenge the program, and they weren't even under his direct control.

Having an ego maniac in a position of power with almost unchallenged authority is a terrible situation for many people.

Was it Kyle Reimers who refused the jab? I wonder if that played a part in his demise.

[Greystache]

Was it Kyle Reimers who refused the jab? I wonder if that played a part in his demise.

David Zaharakis. It's a bit easier to push back when you're the current B&F I suppose.

[The Underdog]

David Zaharakis. It's a bit easier to push back when you're the current B&F I suppose.

I remember reading that Winderlich wasn't part of it. I wonder why that was. Given it was only 34 players it means 4-8 players weren't part of it. Wonder if they objected or there was some other reason ( long term injury p'raps).

[boydogs]

I remember reading that Winderlich wasn't part of it. I wonder why that was. Given it was only 34 players it means 4-8 players weren't part of it. Wonder if they objected or there was some other reason ( long term injury p'raps).

The 34 are on Thymosin Beta-4 charges, they used 10+ different drugs on their players but tailored the mix to each player's needs

[The Underdog]

The 34 are on Thymosin Beta-4 charges, they used 10+ different drugs on their players but tailored the mix to each player's needs

Cheers. I've remained somewhat wilfully ignorant of the details mainly because I don't really care that much.

[boydogs]

Cheers. I've remained somewhat wilfully ignorant of the details mainly because I don't really care that much.

The media's need to write a new story every day about any small development tended to overwhelm what this was really about. Here's a list of what they were given

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/bombers-in-the-dark-the-12-afl-stars-still-in-asada-limbo/story-fni5f6kv-1226842446681

The full list of substances allegedly used by Essendon players in 2012, according to ASADA:

Amino acids: Molecules that can build muscle, improve performance, help recovery.

Amino-Bol: Muscle-building supplement for workouts.

AOD-9604: Anti-obesity peptide used to increase power and rehabilitate soft-tissue injuries.

Arginine: Amino acid that helps heal wounds.

Caffeine: Stimulant of the central nervous system.

Cerebrolysin: Experimental peptide made from pig brain, and given to Alzheimer’s and stroke patients as it is said to improve cognitive performance.

Coenzyme: Used to treat muscle pain.

Colostrum: Derived from cow’s milk. Increases strength and endurance, builds muscle mass.

Comfrey: Herbal cream used for cuts, wounds and bruising.

Creatine: Bodybuilding supplement that provides energy to the muscles and helps recovery.

D-Ribose powder: Carbohydrate molecule that helps recovery and increases energy.

Glycogen: Substance deposited in bodily tissues as a store of carbohydrates.

Glutamine: Tasteless substance that reduces muscle breakdown.

Glutathione: Antioxidant that helps increase strength and endurance.

HMB: Bodybuilding capsules or powder supplement.

Humanofort: Supplement that encourages muscle growth.

Hydration shots: Electrolyte energy tablets

Interleukin: Helps regulate immune system

IV immune boost: Intravenous therapy that delivers vitamins, minerals and amino acids to the body

Lact-Away: Antioxidant drink that helps fight fatigue and boost performance

Melibol: Branched chain amino acids designed to assist soft-tissue repair and recovery.

MP50: Weight-gaining, mass-increasing protein milk supplement.

Multi-vitamins: Supplements used for overall health.

Nitrovol: Pre-and post-workout powder shake used to build and refuel muscles.

Platelet-rich plasma: Injections of a players’ own blood used to treat musculoskeletal injuries.

Protein: Powder supplement used to build muscle and assist recovery.

Thymomodulin: Peptide derived from thymus glands of young calves. Helps boost the immune system. Not banned.

Thymosin: Peptide that assists muscle regeneration. The banned Thymosin Beta 4 is often used on racehorses.

Traumeel: Used in treatment of musculoskeletal injuries.

Tribulus: Herbal extract used for erectile dysfunction and low libido. Increases testosterone levels.

Ubiquinol: Anti-oxidant that helps increase energy.

Ubiquinone: Anti-oxidant that helps increase energy.

Vitamin D: Improves bone strength and muscle function.

[Maddog37]

Scary.

[Dry Rot]

The media's need to write a new story every day about any small development tended to overwhelm what this was really about. Here's a list of what they were given

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/bombers-in-the-dark-the-12-afl-stars-still-in-asada-limbo/story-fni5f6kv-1226842446681

The full list of substances allegedly used by Essendon players in 2012, according to ASADA:

Amino acids: Molecules that can build muscle, improve performance, help recovery.

Amino-Bol: Muscle-building supplement for workouts.

AOD-9604: Anti-obesity peptide used to increase power and rehabilitate soft-tissue injuries.

Arginine: Amino acid that helps heal wounds.

Caffeine: Stimulant of the central nervous system.

Cerebrolysin: Experimental peptide made from pig brain, and given to Alzheimer’s and stroke patients as it is said to improve cognitive performance.

Coenzyme: Used to treat muscle pain.

Colostrum: Derived from cow’s milk. Increases strength and endurance, builds muscle mass.

Comfrey: Herbal cream used for cuts, wounds and bruising.

Creatine: Bodybuilding supplement that provides energy to the muscles and helps recovery.

D-Ribose powder: Carbohydrate molecule that helps recovery and increases energy.

Glycogen: Substance deposited in bodily tissues as a store of carbohydrates.

Glutamine: Tasteless substance that reduces muscle breakdown.

Glutathione: Antioxidant that helps increase strength and endurance.

HMB: Bodybuilding capsules or powder supplement.

Humanofort: Supplement that encourages muscle growth.

Hydration shots: Electrolyte energy tablets

Interleukin: Helps regulate immune system

IV immune boost: Intravenous therapy that delivers vitamins, minerals and amino acids to the body

Lact-Away: Antioxidant drink that helps fight fatigue and boost performance

Melibol: Branched chain amino acids designed to assist soft-tissue repair and recovery.

MP50: Weight-gaining, mass-increasing protein milk supplement.

Multi-vitamins: Supplements used for overall health.

Nitrovol: Pre-and post-workout powder shake used to build and refuel muscles.

Platelet-rich plasma: Injections of a players’ own blood used to treat musculoskeletal injuries.

Protein: Powder supplement used to build muscle and assist recovery.

Thymomodulin: Peptide derived from thymus glands of young calves. Helps boost the immune system. Not banned.

Thymosin: Peptide that assists muscle regeneration. The banned Thymosin Beta 4 is often used on racehorses.

Traumeel: Used in treatment of musculoskeletal injuries.

Tribulus: Herbal extract used for erectile dysfunction and low libido. Increases testosterone levels.

Ubiquinol: Anti-oxidant that helps increase energy.

Ubiquinone: Anti-oxidant that helps increase energy.

Vitamin D: Improves bone strength and muscle function.

Funny mix in there. Innocent stuff many of us take e.g. CoQ10, Vit D but also weird shit like this

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/guidetocancerdrugs/interleukin-2

I really feel sorry for the players, but not Hird of the EFC. This is a disgrace.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Wonder if Stew has already cut a deal as he broke away from the player association.

Hey memo to Beverage. Get a deal for Stew that will be a legacy that will stick around.

[Twodogs]

So according to that concoction it had both a weight loss compound and a weight gain compound. What's going on there?

[FrediKanoute]

I don't trust my Doctor injecting anything into me, until I ask a few questions. If I was a professional athlete, I would really not trust anyone until i had it checked and verified.

Having said that, I can imagine in a team situation, and being 21, 22 years old and all your mates are doing it, and you don't want to be the odd one out, than I can see how it could happen. I know its no excuse, but I can see it from the players point of view.

all the more reason the club should face more sanctions. They failed to create an environment where it was safe and legal for a player to carry out their trade and worse encouraged peer pressure to prevail to bring players into line. As a club they have gotten off lightly.

[boydogs]

So according to that concoction it had both a weight loss compound and a weight gain compound. What's going on there?

Not everything was given to everyone. Different things were given to different players at different times according to needs.

[Twodogs]

Not everything was given to everyone. Different things were given to different players at different times according to needs.


That would explain it.

[Dry Rot]

There has been some speculation about a Cronulla-like set of penalties for the 34 Bombers, but that's a completely different situation.

The Cronulla doping was short-lived. The players co-operated with ASADA, accepting its findings. And most critically, ASADA itself delayed things while it pursued the Bombers. That delay was the reasoning behind the backdating, and the co-operation was the reason for 6 month penalties.

In the Bombers case, everything above is the opposite.

[bornadog]

The 34 players have requested a closed hearing.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't want to sound pissy, but I was hoping to focus on the side of the story that impacts us. Being Stew.

Any loss of games is massive as its then Boyd probably getting double teamed each week. Would be a disaster nearly. I think Roughy must go forward, completely not negotiable as Redpath isn't enough a danger to stretch the defences. Jarrad Grant just got a whole lot more important in such a scenario.

From a payments perspective, our contract must have contained a get out of salary clause if he gets a lengthy contract. Not sure if in that event we have minimum payments issues.

Do we get Gordon Legal in to tell Stew to look out for himself and his new club? Can he train outside the club, but at VU under watch I wonder?

[GVGjr]

Do we get Gordon Legal in to tell Stew to look out for himself and his new club? Can he train outside the club, but at VU under watch I wonder?

I think I read that they helped Crameri pick a legal representative in Criminal Lawyer Rob Stary.

He will have to train away from the group and I guess those plans are already in place.

[bulldogtragic]

I think I read that they helped Crameri pick a legal representative in Criminal Lawyer Rob Stary.

He will have to train away from the group and I guess those plans are already in place.

Rob is a very good lawyer, so that's a good move. Get in Rob Richter in as counsel and that's the dream team.

[Bulldog4life]

I think I read that they helped Crameri pick a legal representative in Criminal Lawyer Rob Stary.

He will have to train away from the group and I guess those plans are already in place.

Rob loves his bulldogs too.

[bornadog]

I think I read that they helped Crameri pick a legal representative in Criminal Lawyer Rob Stary.

He will have to train away from the group and I guess those plans are already in place.

Rob and Peter are old mates from way back.

[lemmon]

This could be a good thing for Stew and his mindset. His form dropped off fairly significantly this year as the ASADA stuff started to hot up again, how much of an impact it had on him is impossible to tell but the sooner its over the better. Leaving the Essendon admin and all the bulldust aside, its time the players got closure for better or worse. I'd be willing to sacrifice half a season of footy from him just to get this axe from above his head.

[Mofra]

This could be a good thing for Stew and his mindset. His form dropped off fairly significantly this year as the ASADA stuff started to hot up again, how much of an impact it had on him is impossible to tell but the sooner its over the better.
He still had his bet goal tally for the year though. I think Stew is a fantastic pick up for us and would wear almost any penalty and still call the trade a win.