Draft Day 2014: First Impressions.

[bulldogtragic]

It's very early. Very!

But how did you think we went?
Did we cover our positional needs?
Any player excite you more than any others?
What's your initial impression? How do you think we went out of 10?

[bulldogtragic]

Small.

Look like good users, some run, goal kicking nouse. All good things. But if our window is 4 or 5 years then we needed to invest in a tall now. Otherwise, we will have to look at trade and FA to get them. I thought we may have gone a ruck, perhaps Cripps in the rookie draft unless he's like his brother with home sickness. I hope we don't regret Foster.

I think 7.5/10.

[Go_Dogs]

I give it a 8.5.

Compliments our list and needs nicely.

Well done Simon and his team.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Without any disrespect to our draftees, whom I wish nothing but success with us, I just don't get why we've gone so small. Hope we are not getting ourselves in a bind in terms of list balance down the track.
I hope we missed on Foster because we really didn't rate him, as opposed to being too smart for our own good thinking he would fall to us in the rookie draft.

[LostDoggy]

Yes it is early and hard to say but my understanding is that our approach to this draft was best available talent so hopefully we have achieved this as needs has not worked for us in the past. I also have a hunch that we will rookie list Jayden Foster, watch this space..

[GVGjr]

I've previously mentioned we needed a bit of a mixture and I'm a bit surprised we didn't add a tall given the profile of the playing list before tonight.

I can't rate our effort yet but I think we followed the game plan we went into the night with.

[The Doctor]

Like the first 3 picks, not sure about the second two. Not due to their ability but the lack of variety in terms of positional styles. Would have likes a kp or a ruckman at least

[bulldogtragic]

Yes it is early and hard to say but my understanding that our approach to this draft was best available talent so hopefully we have achieved this as needs has not worked for us in the past. I also have a hunch that we will rookie list Jayden Foster, watch this space..

Foster is a Carlton player now.

[G-Mo77]

Yes it is early and hard to say but my understanding is that our approach to this draft was best available talent so hopefully we have achieved this as needs has not worked for us in the past. I also have a hunch that we will rookie list Jayden Foster, watch this space..

Carlton won't delist him before the season starts.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hard to say.

7.5 seems about right given the picks that we had. No notable slider got to 27/28 but I like both McLean and Webb. Hamilton and Dale look like good selections. Daniel can play but there's obvious height concerns.

We still have massive issues in defense.

[LostDoggy]

Foster is a Carlton player now.

Scheisse, I missed that. Got chatting on fb halfway through. Cheers Bulldogtragic, now I am pissed..

[lemmon]

Have to take into perspective Griff, Cooney, Tutt and Higgins are all going out, we're losing a fair bit of outside run there. In saying that I would've liked a Blakely inside type and a key position player. I'm looking forward to our kicking improving rather rapidly

[G-Mo77]

I can't rate it. I know very little about most of the players drafted tonight just what I read. Am I happy? Not really? I think we're putting far to much faith in guys like Roberts, Talia and a delisted player in Hamling to cover our horrid back line. I'd be lying if I said I was not concerned.

[Scorlibo]

Seems as though we've taken two small live wires in Caleb Daniel and Toby McLean, then three clever, composed ball users in Bailey Dale, Declan Hamilton and Lukas Webb. The kicking skills stand out with all five. It would be nice to get a bit of tall timber in there to balance things out, but then again how does a mosquito fleet of Dahlhaus, Hrovat, Honeychurch, Hunter, McLean and Daniel sound? I like that Dalrymple isn't afraid to pick the smaller guys if they're the best available.

[Go_Dogs]

Simon has form rating the smaller blokes.

The fact is, we're likely to have an early pick next year which is where we'll be best poised to add a genuine key defender.

We have need some run and skill for a while, and this draft should hold us in good stead.

[F'scary]

I am marking us high because I can see what the plan was. Big emphasis on skills, vision, decision making, speed, agility. McLean will wow the fans. And Caleb Daniel was attracting a lot of attention in the build up to the draft - could be a real crowd favourite.

26. Toby McLean. KA-CHING! Clever. Quick. Finds the ball. Great vision. Great disposal. And...sure can take a grab. Got some X factor
27. Lukas Webb. KA-CHING! Lots of skills. Vision. Clever. Wins own ball. Nice mark. Looks very, very versatile.
39. Hamilton. LIKE! Another slick, skillful one.
45. Bailey Dale. LIKE! Nice mover. Good decision maker. Good disposal skills.
46. Caleb Daniel. KA-CHING! Incredible skill set. Fast. Knows where the ball is.

It seemed that our recruiters had done their homework and hadn't just gone for the popular picks in certain phantom drafts.

[GVGjr]

It seemed that our recruiters had done their homework and hadn't just gone for the popular picks in certain phantom drafts.

They are meticulous with their approach. Researched and very confident with their selections.

[Rocket Science]

Forget height, I spy a theme: instinctive footballers.

They all look like effective distributors who play with some boldness.

This augurs well.

[divvydan]

Video of the main man himself, Simon Dalrymple, explaining the reasoning behind the draft picks http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-11-27/dalrymple-reviews-draft

[GVGjr]

Video of the main man himself, Simon Dalrymple, explaining the reasoning behind the draft picks http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-11-27/dalrymple-reviews-draft

Just saw it. Endurance, versatility and good decision makers are important traits with our selections.

[Ghost Dog]

Why was Toby McClean delisted by the stingrays?

[GVGjr]

Why was Toby McClean delisted by the stingrays?

Didn't make the grade. Pleaded with Oakleigh to give him a chance.

[divvydan]

Given the focus on certain attributes, I can imagine our best available list was very different to most other clubs.

[boydogs]

How many key defenders do people think we should have on the list? Not counting Wood, we currently have 6 - Morris, Roughead, Talia, Roberts, Hamling & Cordy. I wouldn't like to see any more than that because they're not the type of player that can do well in another position if they all come on. Smaller players can play midfield, forward or back.

Quality may be an issue with those 6 but it was pretty obvious when we added Cordy & Hamling that we wouldn't be looking for another one in the draft

[KT31]

Would have at least liked us to pick up one decent tall, but really like the focus on footballers with pace and skill and not just picking athletes.
Not knowing much about our picks I can only wait and see, I did notice on the highlight packages that a couple players we picked seemed to kick predominately short and hesitated kicking it long and hoping it just been edited that way.
Imagine we will pick up a tall or two as rookies to balance out.

[Hotdog60]

We've moved away from the Geelong model and now starting the Hawthorne one. :)

[bornadog]

We've moved away from the Geelong model and now starting the Hawthorne one. :)

How much influence from Bevo I wonder? All smalls like him.:D

[bulldogtragic]

How much influence from Bevo I wonder? All smalls like him.:D

Little spindly biceps though, they either need to hit the gym or get their sleeves tailored in. Or both. :)

[bulldogsman]

Happy with McLean and Webb, but they went a bit earlier then I probably would have taken them.
Hamilton not sure about
I like Dale and he was in my mix of player's at pick 45/46
The Caleb Daniel selection I really don't like, for reasons mentioned in another thread.

All in all I'm happy we picked player's that are smart footballers and use the ball well.
Disappointed we didn't take a real speedster like Menadue for example or another tall, but that could be addressed in the rookie draft I guess.

I'll give it a 6.

[F'scary]

Interesting looking at the players we passed up at 26 & 27:

Pick 28 Dillon Viojo-Rainbow (Carl)
Pick 29 Touk Miller (GC)
Pick 30 Brayden Maynard (Coll)
Pick 31 Daniel Howe (Haw)
Pick 32 Tom Lamb (WCE)
Pick 33 Connor Menadue (Rich)
Pick 34 Connor Blakely Fremantle
Pick 35 Harrison Wigg Adelaide
Pick 36 Ed Vickers-Willis North Melbourne.
Pick 37 James Rose Sydney

Then after
Pick 39 Declan Hamilton (Western Bulldogs)
there is
Pick 40 Alex Neal-Bullen (Melbourne)
Pick 41 Jack Lonie (StK)

And at 45 & 46 the following were still available, including a couple of talls.

Pick 52 Nathan Drummond (Rich), 19 year-old was eligble last year.
Pick 53 Oscar McDonald (Melb), brother of Demon Tom
Pick 54 Ed Langdon (Freo), brother of Magpie Tom
Pick 55 Dean Gore (Geel)
Pick 58 Harry Dear (Ade), son of 1991 Norm Smith medallist Paul Dear.

The point I am making is that quite a number of those who were still available seemed in my research to get featured pretty highly in the media as being unlikely to last to 26 & 27. And then there were a couple that were repeatedly linked to us - Menadue and McDonald. It looks to me as if Dalrymple really did his own research and made his own judgements.

[stefoid]

Looks like we picked a bunch of guys who can use the ball well, particularly by foot on the outside, and decent composure. Which is of course what we need in general.

Simon said we also looked at versatility - we arent looking to fill any particular position. Just plonk some guys who can run and use the ball anywhere the team needs them.

Interesting he mentioned Dal as being inside the F50. He might be pegged mainly now as a small forward which is where he does his best work - not sure he has the composure up the ground. Maybe the midfield was a failed experiment for him. See ball, get ball, kick goal might be his trick, but its a good trick!

[Remi Moses]

Any other key backs miss out besides Ramsay and Tyler Kytel

[Mofra]

How many key defenders do people think we should have on the list? Not counting Wood, we currently have 6 - Morris, Roughead, Talia, Roberts, Hamling & Cordy.
Of those, only Roberts & Hamling are really KPDs - and the jury is out on both.

Morris is 190cm and in his last 2 years (likely), Talia has short arms for his height and is no guarantee to make the grade, Roughy's best position is still up in the air and he gets killed by fast leading forwards.

For mien we're desperately light on for KPDs and passing on talls with all 5 picks is a worry to me.

[boydogs]

Of those, only Roberts & Hamling are really KPDs - and the jury is out on both.

Morris is 190cm and in his last 2 years (likely), Talia has short arms for his height and is no guarantee to make the grade, Roughy's best position is still up in the air and he gets killed by fast leading forwards.

For mien we're desperately light on for KPDs and passing on talls with all 5 picks is a worry to me.

There's still 6 of them, and we just picked up 2. Your concerns are valid, but it's unbalancing the list to just keep adding more of them. My point is, once we got Cordy & Hamling it was clear we weren't getting a KPD at the draft.

Trade for needs and draft for best available :)

[Mofra]

There's still 6 of them, and we just picked up 2.
I dispute that figure.

I count two - Hamling & Roberts, with 4 maybes or outsized types.

[F'scary]

For those who are concerned about the lack of of tall selections on draft night, I'm going to echo a couple of other posters and point out in the trade/draft period we have also acquired Boyd 200cm, Hamling 195cm, Biggs 187cm, we promoted Jong 188cm, Repath 194cm and used F/S on Z Cordy 192cm. That's 6 taller recruits. In the last 2 drafts we got Macrae 191cm, Stringer 192cm, Bontempelli 193cm. We traded a mid 20's pick form Crameri 189cm.

Ball usage and decision making have been obvious and diabolical problems for us for the past 3 years or more. The five players selected tonight have been clearly chosen to address this weakness. I applaud the direction the club has taken.

[Mofra]

For those who are concerned about the lack of of tall selections on draft night, I'm going to echo a couple of other posters and point out in the trade/draft period we have also acquired Boyd 200cm, Hamling 195cm, Biggs 187cm, we promoted Jong 188cm, Repath 194cm and used F/S on Z Cordy 192cm. That's 6 taller recruits. In the last 2 drafts we got Macrae 191cm, Stringer 192cm, Bontempelli 193cm. We traded a mid 20's pick form Crameri 189cm.
Great.

Boyd will develop into a genuine no 1 KPF, I'm sure.
Redpath - good luck to him, but I don't have much faith.
Biggs as AFL average size - I like the selection and think he may well be in our best 22 next year but calling him tall at AFL level is a stretch.
Hamling is a Mackie-liek twig with less ability. He is nowhere near ready and even when he matures may not be a genuine KPD.
Zaine will take time and isn't a genuine KPD.

That's the rub - we are desperate for KPDs and our list looks very thin for them, especially if Roughy plays ruck/forward (which I think he's better suited to) and considering 190cm Morris is in his last couple of years we really need to address this at the rookie draft.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree Mofra.

I was very surprised we didn't take McDonald at 45.

[F'scary]

Great.

Boyd will develop into a genuine no 1 KPF, I'm sure.
Redpath - good luck to him, but I don't have much faith.
Biggs as AFL average size - I like the selection and think he may well be in our best 22 next year but calling him tall at AFL level is a stretch.
Hamling is a Mackie-liek twig with less ability. He is nowhere near ready and even when he matures may not be a genuine KPD.
Zaine will take time and isn't a genuine KPD.

That's the rub - we are desperate for KPDs and our list looks very thin for them, especially if Roughy plays ruck/forward (which I think he's better suited to) and considering 190cm Morris is in his last couple of years we really need to address this at the rookie draft.

You may be proven correct in your assessment of Redpath and Hamling. But they are the talls we have recruited for now. I disagree, Biggs is a taller midfielder at 187cm. Zaine is now 193cm according to some sources I read and could be a KPD.

[hujsh]

Completely echo Mofra who summed up everything I wanted to say. Claiming Z.Cordy as a KPD at this stage is like claiming Shaggy as a CHB.

I also don't think including McCrae or Bonts really alleviates anything either. The worry for this list isn't general height around the ground it's specific key position deficiencies for which Boyd is the only likely improvement we've seen this period

[F'scary]

Agree Mofra.

I was very surprised we didn't take McDonald at 45.

He slid big time in the draft. We weren't the only ones who passed him by.

[F'scary]

Completely echo Mofra who summed up everything I wanted to say. Claiming Z.Cordy as a KPD at this stage is like claiming Shaggy as a CHB.

I also don't think including McCrae or Bonts really alleviates anything either. The worry for this list isn't general height around the ground it's specific key position deficiencies for which Boyd is the only likely improvement we've seen this period

We have just as big a problem with ball usage. We can't solve everything in one year. Seems to me that the club chose to focus on ball usage over KPD's and CHF probably because it assessed that the quality required of that type of player wasn't available in the draft at pick 26+.

[Greystache]

We went into the draft with the worst defence in the AFL, and after the draft we haven't improved it at all. I'm surprised we couldn't sacrifice one small forward for an extra tall defender such as Mcdonald. We go into 2015 relying on an undersized Talia, an injured Roberts, and an unlikely reject in Hamling. It seems like we've put all our eggs in a speculative basket. Even if Redpath can be a key defender, which is doubtful, we're light on. I can't understand why we didn't try to pick up at least one more tall defender. We need to hope this group of small players pays off.

[Remi Moses]

We have just as big a problem with ball usage. We can't solve everything in one year. Seems to me that the club chose to focus on ball usage over KPD's and CHF probably because it assessed that the quality required of that type of player wasn't available in the draft at pick 26+.

Agree entirely . That would be the thinking that nobody decent was available after 26

[Remi Moses]

We went into the draft with the worst defence in the AFL, and after the draft we haven't improved it at all. I'm surprised we couldn't sacrifice one small forward for an extra tall defender such as Mcdonald. We go into 2015 relying on an undersized Talia, an injured Roberts, and an unlikely reject in Hamling. It seems like we've put all our eggs in a speculative basket. Even if Redpath can be a key defender, which is doubtful, we're light on. I can't understand why we didn't try to pick up at least one more tall defender. We need to hope this group of small players pays off.

I think we do need an extra defender, but we need a decent one as well.
Is McDonald that highly touted ? He did go pick 53. We were linked with highly touted key backs that went before our pick.

[Raw Toast]

Very interesting draft from afar. Can't comment on the players taken, but as others have noted, I think there is some evidence of the Hawthorn-like focus on foot-skills and composure. The other Hawthorn-like aspect, is that it leaves us with a bit of a rag-tag bunch down back. Beveridge, however, has shown that he can mold backlines that play well while looking a bit undersized, so I'm not so surprised by that either.

[dog town]

Adding a key defender that isn't up to the standard isn't going to help our backline. Obviously Dalrymple didn't rate the key backs at our picks.

I share the concern about our backline but we should never pick guys we don't rate. If you have an issue with it then it's either with Dalrymples ability or the Boyd trade that cost us a higher pick. We are in a tricky position with the sides in the same rebuild phase as us getting better picks in consecutive drafts. In a deep draft we couldn't afford to miss. I suspect the club knows by the law if averages not all of these guys will make it. Played the percentages and gone for safety in numbers. If we get 3-4 players out of it then it's a huge success.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I would have hated taking McDonald and Vickers-Wills at 26 & 27 but at 45 I would have liked Dear, McDonald

Maybe McDonald is a little too much like Fletcher Roberts but as good as Daniel might be its hard to see where we can fit all of our smalls into the team.

[comrade]

With free agency as it is, I'm not overly concerned we didn't pick up a speculative defender. I like the approach of taking the best available players, building a team that is versatile and skilled at kicking the ball and then filling gaps through strategic trading.

We're also a few years from really contending for anything so time is on our side. We'll have a low pick in the 2015 draft which we can use on either drafting a gun defender (if he's there) or trading it out for one.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm still happy with our draft this morning, think we've added some good types.

Whilst we are lacking a genuine key defender of quality, the reality is, had we drafted one they wouldn't have played in 2015.

Next season is time for Talia and Roberts to sink or swim. Hamling may play a bit. Redpath at a pinch too.

Next year we grab a tall defender early, or trade or FA one. We'll have addressed our most glaring weakness with skill level in 2014, and have a high quality key defender prospect, which we couldn't have added this year after the Boyd trade.

[soupman]

Generally I'm very positive.

I was expecting a tall to be in the mix, and am probably slightly disappointed we didn't grab one, but that may be a solid indication that Dalrymple just didn't rate any of the ones available. I'm expecting at least 1, possibly two o be picked up as rookies, especially as Foster won't be joining the club through that avenue anymore.

As for the actual players we picked up I'm pretty excited. Other than talls (which we have somewhat addressed, if not fully, in Hamling, Cordy and Boyd) I think the obvious need a higher priorities were players who are good users of the ball and have some pace.

It looks like we have ticked both those boxes, a few times over.

All players drafted have been talked up as good kicks, good decision makers and composed. They are all things we desperately needed to add. We have also added to our huge group of half forwards/midfielders, so we can expect rotations a plenty.

My only other concern was that I would have liked another inside mid type to reduce our reliance on Liberatore. Neal-Bullen was one I would have liked to see brought in but obviously we have a lot of faith in Wallis, Liberatore and Jong.

[Happy Days]

I'm pretty happy. I would have liked to have gotten some defensive height but it's not like we missed out on some super hot shot prospect.

It's smart drafting, going with best available players down the line that all stem from an obvious theme. I'm glad that we haven't gotten caught up in the semantics of size as well. So happy to see that we might not suck at kicking the ball anymore.

[KT31]

I hope Labour win the election on the weekend, with no talls last night we have drafted for a cold wet Ballarat oval.:)

[LostDoggy]

Perhaps they've gone with the approach of avoiding the need to draft and develop KP defenders with the substitution of creative, running ball-users around the ground.

That's a big perhaps.

[whythelongface]

I'm pretty happy. I would have liked to have gotten some defensive height but it's not like we missed out on some super hot shot prospect.

It's smart drafting, going with best available players down the line that all stem from an obvious theme. I'm glad that we haven't gotten caught up in the semantics of size as well. So happy to see that we might not suck at kicking the ball anymore.

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Happy overall from the highlights packages that I have seen that there seems to be some good quality amongst the players we have chosen. Particularly like the ability that they all have with their disposal by foot.

It would have been nice to have picked up a key defender but that would have purely been speculative and it is a safer bet speculating on a midfielder than a KPP later in the draft. Our best bet will be to lure a FA (quality) defender across at the end of next season to shore up our defence.

[Bulldog4life]

There's still 6 of them, and we just picked up 2. Your concerns are valid, but it's unbalancing the list to just keep adding more of them. My point is, once we got Cordy & Hamling it was clear we weren't getting a KPD at the draft.

Trade for needs and draft for best available :)

Agree and I think we have to see who we get in the Rookie draft to see where we are at overall list wise.

[stefoid]

On the too many smalls thing - prior to this draft we have (taking <=183 as the 'small' category)

Libba- 182. Gun. inside mid.
Dalhaus- 178. Ground level small forward and tackling machine.
Honeychurch- 176. Not sure if mid or forward. He would not be liking our recent draft one bit.
Clay Smith- 181. Stoppage pinball mid.
Hrovat- Clever mid around the packs.
Pruden- 182. The Chosen One.
Fuller- 180. ...
JoJo- 180. Pacey, long-kicking rebounder building in confidence.
Hunter- 183 Clever, high marking mid / forward with improving endurance

Theres a couple of proven quality players in that lot, but its certainly not a bunch you could comfortably say - "job done". Overall its a slowish group with not much run and carry.

Our new smalls:
mclean 180 - clever small forward who plays tall. X factor.
hamilton 182 - projects as a half back / outside mid. smart runner and ball user.
dale 182 - longer term prospect. quickish, possibly half back / mid.
daniel 167- tiny ablett. pure mid with great endurance.

Of the new recruits, overall, they compliment the first lot. The overall group is on the quicker side, and it likes to run, carry and kick.

Theres 13 smalls there. They wont all get a game. But between them, we might get a well rounded group of 6 or 7 quality payers with an even split between defence, midfield and forward.

[G-Mo77]

Great.

Boyd will develop into a genuine no 1 KPF, I'm sure.
Redpath - good luck to him, but I don't have much faith.
Biggs as AFL average size - I like the selection and think he may well be in our best 22 next year but calling him tall at AFL level is a stretch.
Hamling is a Mackie-liek twig with less ability. He is nowhere near ready and even when he matures may not be a genuine KPD.
Zaine will take time and isn't a genuine KPD.

That's the rub - we are desperate for KPDs and our list looks very thin for them, especially if Roughy plays ruck/forward (which I think he's better suited to) and considering 190cm Morris is in his last couple of years we really need to address this at the rookie draft.

I'm terrified about how much faith our list managers are putting into this selection. Both interviews they referred to Hamling and it's like they're ticking off the need for a KPD. I know they've got to talk up everything they do but it has me concerned. We've got Dale Morris down back as our only proven defender, that's it. How much time as he got left in him? There is far too much faith put on the shoulders of the unproven, we're going to get eaten alive down back.

[Maddog37]

If we go a couple of talls in the rookie draft I will be more than satisfied with our strategy.

[azabob]

The way I look at it if we didn't trade pick 6 or whatever it was most likely would have gone on a tall player (Tom Boyd) then we would've gone small.

I have no drama's with our approach at all.

[Mofra]

Is McDonald that highly touted ? He did go pick 53. We were linked with highly touted key backs that went before our pick.
Lake was #71, Morris was a rookie, Roberts a PSD pick.
Key Backs are almost like ruckman in that they can be selected late. I really hope we rookie one of the guys that are left

[Go_Dogs]

Lake was #71, Morris was a rookie, Roberts a PSD pick.
Key Backs are almost like ruckman in that they can be selected late. I really hope we rookie one of the guys that are left

Who is the last really good one, selected that late?

I look at the current batch of quality key defenders such as D Talia, E McKenzie, etc and they seem to have been earlier picks.

[The Underdog]

I'm terrified about how much faith our list managers are putting into this selection. Both interviews they referred to Hamling and it's like they're ticking off the need for a KPD. I know they've got to talk up everything they do but it has me concerned. We've got Dale Morris down back as our only proven defender, that's it. How much time as he got left in him? There is far too much faith put on the shoulders of the unproven, we're going to get eaten alive down back.

How would our draft approach have changed that though? By the time we made our first pick, the top level key defenders were off the board. The ones we had access to would have largely been as speculative as Hamling and certainly no guarantee to help in the next 2-3 years. We traded our first pick to fill a long standing key forward hole, Hamling is probably as likely to be an AFL key defender as anyone picked after pick 26. Howe and McDonald are about the only ones with size who fit in with what we needed anyway. Vickers-Willis is basically Z.Cordy from what I can see but shorter. Plus there are still a couple of potential development options available in the Rookie Draft.
Would I have preferred we picked up a tall defender type? Sure. But if we didn't value any of the available options then I've got no problem with us picking the players we rated. Hamling is more chance of effecting our backline next year than a first year draftee would have been. We have no choice but to roll with Roberts, Hamling et al next year. It's a hole in our list for sure but one thing Beveridge has managed in the past is patching together back lines who cover for each other and play stronger than the individual parts so I think there is some hope there. The irony of course is that everyone was threatening to tear the place down with the offer to Tom Lonergan, yet this is precisely the short term gap he would have filled.

[G-Mo77]

I would have taken a punt on at least one of them and we still may come Rookie Draft so it could be a moot point. Our backline seems a real mess and if Robert and Talia don't take off we're are in serious trouble. (I don't hold much faith in Hamling) It will be the complete opposite of our team that were in the prelims. This time we'll have a big forward but our backline will be missing that good big man. It's a genuine concern.

Then there is our ruck stocks. Minson is still there, Campbell is a nice replacement and there is Cordy who is still a big maybe. Another ruck prospect to back them up would have been nice as well. I was really disappointed we passed on Dear for that role. I do like the look of the big lad at Footscray and wouldn't mind a punt on him in the rookie draft.

I was against throwing so much at Lonergan, that was ludicrous! I did understand why we'd want to go that way. I was advocating for big sauce from Brisbane to be that guy to fill the gap.

[Hotdog60]

I would have taken a punt on at least one of them and we still may come Rookie Draft so it could be a moot point. Our backline seems a real mess and if Robert and Talia don't take off we're are in serious trouble. (I don't hold much faith in Hamling) It will be the complete opposite of our team that were in the prelims. This time we'll have a big forward but our backline will be missing that good big man. It's a genuine concern.

Then there is our ruck stocks. Minson is still there, Campbell is a nice replacement and there is Cordy who is still a big maybe. Another ruck prospect to back them up would have been nice as well. I was really disappointed we passed on Dear for that role. I do like the look of the big lad at Footscray and wouldn't mind a punt on him in the rookie draft.

I was against throwing so much at Lonergan, that was ludicrous! I did understand why we'd want to go that way. I was advocating for big sauce from Brisbane to be that guy to fill the gap.

I think it would be a wise move in more way than one. If we can find rookie talent through Footscray and with luck claim some gems it would show to other players that got over looked that the AFL sides with their own team could be a viable option to get another crack. Closer scrutiny by the power that make the decisions. Also reward for effort. Come play for us and you may get a chance to live your dream if you can work hard enough.

[bornadog]

I was against throwing so much at Lonergan, that was ludicrous! .

That would have been the most stupid thing we would have done since the Howard pick. Stupid as in the money that was being bandied around.

[boydogs]

Who is the last really good one, selected that late?

I look at the current batch of quality key defenders such as D Talia, E McKenzie, etc and they seem to have been earlier picks.

This is all the key defenders that played 18+ games in 2014

Ted Richards - #27 2000
Tom Lonergan - #23 2002 / Rookie #50 2006
Jared Rivers - #26 2002
Daniel Merrett - #30 2002
Troy Chaplin - #15 2003
Zac Dawson - #41 2003 / Rookie #13 2009 / PSD #10 2012
Dale Morris - Rookie #19 2005
Lachie Hansen - #3 2006
James Frawley - #12 2006
Mitch Brown WCE - #16 2006
Eric McKenzie - #29 2006
Jack Grimes - #14 2007
Harry Taylor - #17 2007
Scott Thompson - #37 2007
Cale Hooker - #54 2007
Daniel Talia - #13 2009
Luke Delaney - Rookie #26 2009
Lachlan Keeffe - Rookie #69 2009
Steven May - Zone Selection 2009
Rory Thopson - Zone Selection 2009
Tom McDonald - #53 2010
Justin Clarke - Rookie #4 2012
Jack Frost - Rookie #41 2013

[Remi Moses]

Lake was #71, Morris was a rookie, Roberts a PSD pick.
Key Backs are almost like ruckman in that they can be selected late. I really hope we rookie one of the guys that are left

True, but Theres been a truckload that haven't made it in that vicinity.

[mjp]

Hamling will be awesome. Hard worker, athletic, 3 years in the system with Geelong...

[chef]

Hamling will be awesome. Hard worker, athletic, 3 years in the system with Geelong...

Do you see him filling a KP role mjp?

[Greystache]

Hamling will be awesome. Hard worker, athletic, 3 years in the system with Geelong...

But doesn't look like he could bench press his own body weight. Do you think he is ever going to be able to compete with the genuine key forward types in the AFL?

He looks to me at best a third tall.

[Ghost Dog]

EQ writes

The quirky Toby McLean owning one of the most watchable highlights packages in the draft. Caleb Daniel couldn't have played any better than he did this year, and gets the chance to prove that, at 168 centimetres, he can find a way at the next level.

Caleb Daniel's highlight reel is infinitely better. Could not have played better is an understatement. What a ripper. Shades of Shaun Hart with the helmet. Rapt to have this kid and don't think height will be an issue at all. Imagine him and Luke Dahlhaus hunting the packs. Welcome Caleb.


http://youtu.be/-_v6hB90Noo

[stefoid]

Do we see Daniel as a forward or a mid? Im assuming he is a pure mid.

[GVGjr]

Do we see Daniel as a forward or a mid? Im assuming he is a pure mid.

It will take a little while before he is a pure mid.

[boydogs]

Do we see Daniel as a forward or a mid? Im assuming he is a pure mid.

I think he will have a career similar to Gary Ablett Jr's, start as a forward and move into the midfield after muscling up a bit

[jeemak]

If anything this draft shows how far away we are from completing a full complement of up and coming players across all lines.

I think we can all acknowledge we had two glaring deficiencies on our list that needed addressing, one being outside run and quality usage of the football, and the other being defencive tall talent.

Whilst I think we're cutting it fine on the latter, with only Tahlia, Roberts, Morris, Redpath and Roughead on our list as potential fills for the role, I look at the former as being an area where we are severely lacking with the loss of Cooney, Griffen and Higgins making that area of the ground the first and foremost priority.

We've hedged our bets with bringing in Hamling and Cordy, the major issue has been accounted for in this draft. It's not perfect, but nothing is when it comes to drafting. For mine, we've given ourselves a good chance to cover a weakness in this draft, and if we have to go to the well next year to finish off the plan then so be it.

[Remi Moses]

I just don't see the point of bringing in a key back if you don't rate him.
Rookie selection Definetly, but we had 5 picks to get that run carry, ball use, poise into the club.
If we get 2 quality AFL careers and an adequate one out of the Six, you've done well.

[jeemak]

I just don't see the point of bringing in a key back if you don't rate him.
Rookie selection Definetly, but we had 5 picks to get that run carry, ball use, poise into the club.
If we get 2 quality AFL careers and an adequate one out of the Six, you've done well.

You're not wrong.

Five picks between 25 and 50 will only generate so much. If we really nail two of them (200 game players) I'll be stoked, and if we nail one of them and get two more decent 125-150 game players I'll be happy as well. It's a tough business.

[LostDoggy]

I just don't see the point of bringing in a key back if you don't rate him.
Rookie selection Definetly, but we had 5 picks to get that run carry, ball use, poise into the club.
If we get 2 quality AFL careers and an adequate one out of the Six, you've done well.

True. People get all excited about the centimetres, but when the bloke turns out a spud or not the right fit you're stuck. On the other hand, have too many quality midfielders and you're at least a good chance for a trade later.

[Mofra]

Who is the last really good one, selected that late?

I look at the current batch of quality key defenders such as D Talia, E McKenzie, etc and they seem to have been earlier picks.
There are guys who fill a role who were picked late - Delaney from North was a rookie, Pederson was a late pick, Jackson Paine was a pick 50, Keefe was a rookie, Siposs was pick 75, the Spang was redrafted by Sydney at pick 73, Delaney was pick 69, Tom McDonald pick 53, Matt MgGuire redrafted in the 90s, Zac Dawson (don't laugh) rookie, Suckling was a rookie, Collingwood re-took Brown with 73, Hooker pick 54, Faulks pick 65, Will Schofield pick 50.

Some will improve, some are depth, but there is talent available in later rounds - and Ben Rutten was a rookie pick by the Crows back in the day.

[Happy Days]

There are guys who fill a role who were picked late - Delaney from North was a rookie, Pederson was a late pick, Jackson Paine was a pick 50, Keefe was a rookie, Siposs was pick 75, the Spang was redrafted by Sydney at pick 73, Delaney was pick 69, Tom McDonald pick 53, Matt MgGuire redrafted in the 90s, Zac Dawson (don't laugh) rookie, Suckling was a rookie, Collingwood re-took Brown with 73, Hooker pick 54, Faulks pick 65, Will Schofield pick 50.

Some will improve, some are depth, but there is talent available in later rounds - and Ben Rutten was a rookie pick by the Crows back in the day.

A lot of those guys suck though?

There's no doubt that talent exists later in the draft, but also a lot of not talent exists at the later end of the draft. If we didn't rate any of the tall guys left then I'm happy we didn't pick them.

[Mofra]

A lot of those guys suck though?

There's no doubt that talent exists later in the draft, but also a lot of not talent exists at the later end of the draft. If we didn't rate any of the tall guys left then I'm happy we didn't pick them.

They may not all be top-liners, but (and it's not my intention to crucify the guy) most of them are well ahead of Mark Austin who held our defence together last year. A good number of them would have been in our senior side last year, Dawson was the no 1 defender for a GF side last year, the Spang won a premiership medallion this year.

[Greystache]

They may not all be top-liners, but (and it's not my intention to crucify the guy) most of them are well ahead of Mark Austin who held our defence together last year. A good number of them would have been in our senior side last year, Dawson was the no 1 defender for a GF side last year, the Spang won a premiership medallion this year.

And Hooker (pick #54) was All Australian

[Mofra]

And Hooker (pick #54) was All Australian
Missed that, cheers.

I'm not arguing that everyone taken late will be a superstar, but there is quality available and after the second round the % of draftees making the grade is very similar.

[Go_Dogs]

Missed that, cheers.

I'm not arguing that everyone taken late will be a superstar, but there is quality available and after the second round the % of draftees making the grade is very similar.

I take your point, but without looking at it, I'd say the chances of identifying a small who makes it are higher than a KP.

Anyway, some are happy with the approach and some aren't. Let's hope the guys we've drafted make it, and our developing KP's come on.

[Remi Moses]

And Hooker (pick #54) was All Australian

There's more misses than hits though .
Ramsey and Kytel are still there ( they were tipped to get drafted)

[Avoid the rush]

Trust our recruiters. They are starting to prove as good as any in the comp.

[S Coast Simon]

It's a tough gig recruiting as it all comes down to application once they walk in the door. Doesn't matter what number they were drafted or rookied. They need to be desperate to improve to make it in the AFL. How many talented kids didn't take AFL serious and weee omitted without doing much. They need to recruit kids that are driven to succeed they are the ones that make it in the AFL

[Mofra]

There's more misses than hits though .
Ramsey and Kytel are still there ( they were tipped to get drafted)
Wasn't Ramsey taken as a rookie by Adelaide or am I thinking of another KPD?

Talia still can do everything but defend one on one by all accounts but Hamling is training better than I expected. I expected a thin project type that is still a couple of years away but he seems to be legitimately in the mix for round 1 if he can up his running capacity.
Roberts on a modified program still is a worry - footspeed aside, he has every other tool need for an AFL career and he is largely smart enough to cut the angles to hide footspeed issues anyway.

Caleb Daniel already looks like a cult hero bargain pick.

[LostDoggy]

Yes, Ramsey was rookied by the Crows.

[Go_Dogs]

Still very early days, but given how Talia has started the year and how Fletch handled himself on Saturday, along with Hamling having a solid start to his Dogs career (albeit, not in the senior side as yet) and Z Cordy still to come, are we all feeling a little bit better about our approach to the 2014 draft?

The Doc's List Management thread has certainly highlighted we still have some gaps on our list, however they're shrinking and the quality of our list appears to be improving fast (as it does when you're winning).

Webb has demonstrated enough skills to make it, Daniel was the most impressive over the pre-season and it seems Dale is kicking the door down at VFL level, with McLean and Hamilton, who I think Dalrymple rated very highly, possibly with a little more development to be done but have also shown flashes.

Interesting how much can change and how quickly it does, in this game. Soon enough I may have to lift my early rating of the draft in page one of this thread from 8.5 to 9+ ;)

[F'scary]

I was pretty happy with the draft because of how it fitted in with the entire recruiting campaign, including the two rookie promotions. I don't think we recruited too small, we got a range of players from the very tall and heavy (T Boyd) to the very small and agile (Caleb Daniel). There was a clear emphasis on flexibility in terms of where they can play, an emphasis on natural football skills and on natural stamina.

A ruckman and a star CHF would have been nice but you can't solve all your needs in one go when you were where we were at the time.

[bornadog]

We really should have drafted, or rookied another ruckman, otherwise, I am happy with the drafting.

[Twodogs]

We really should have drafted, or rookied another ruckman, otherwise, I am happy with the drafting.

I'm happy not to draft ruckmen given they usually take until their mid 20s to mature. Maybe rookie, but I'd prefer to raid other clubs and get a ruckman via free agency.

[bornadog]

I'm happy not to draft ruckmen given they usually take until their mid 20s to mature. Maybe rookie, but I'd prefer to raid other clubs and get a ruckman via free agency.

Fine, but what if one is not available? You need to do both, or have a strategy to do both. A mature rookie playing in the VFL is also a possible. Unfortunately we didn't do anything at all.

[Twodogs]

Fine, but what if one is not available? You need to do both, or have a strategy to do both. A mature rookie playing in the VFL is also a possible. Unfortunately we didn't do anything at all.

Its a fair point but was there a decent ruckman available last year?

[bornadog]

Its a fair point but was there a decent ruckman available last year?

Should we have rookied Darcy Fort?

[Cyberdoggie]

At this rate Dalrymple and McCartney are looking like getting statues of them made next to EJ out front.
Some great drafting and list management has seen us improve very quickly and last years draft picks look to all be of top quality.

You simply have got to nail your early draft picks at any draft and we are doing that and more.

[bornadog]

At this rate Dalrymple and McCartney are looking like getting statues of them made next to EJ out front.
Some great drafting and list management has seen us improve very quickly and last years draft picks look to all be of top quality.

You simply have got to nail your early draft picks at any draft and we are doing that and more.

Lucky we bottomed out and had early draft picks. The draft system is made for rewarding bottom teams.

[always right]

Lucky we bottomed out and had early draft picks. The draft system is made for rewarding bottom teams.

But it counts for nothing if you don't get your picks right and then develop them well. Nothing lucky about that.

[Greystache]

But it counts for nothing if you don't get your picks right and then develop them well. Nothing lucky about that.

Exactly. We pissed them up against a wall previously with the likes of Walsh, Williams, Grant etc. Early picks mean nothing if you miss the mark on draft day.

We're still lacking a key defender with pace, another developing key forward, and a ruckman. We can't have another draft of munchkins, our VFL team is scarily small.

[Mofra]

Lucky we bottomed out and had early draft picks. The draft system is made for rewarding bottom teams.
Melbourne have had better draft picks than us in recent seasons and we're miles ahead of them. They've had picks before our picks of Macrae, Stringer & Bontempelli and they got a free pass with Viney in the 2nd round

[bornadog]

Melbourne have had better draft picks than us in recent seasons and we're miles ahead of them. They've had picks before our picks of Macrae, Stringer & Bontempelli and they got a free pass with Viney in the 2nd round

Ok, put it this way, having early draft picks goes a long way to getting a better player than late picks. Of course you can still stuff it up.

[SlimPickens]

our VFL team is scarily small.

Really noticeable isn't it. Jordan Russell and Roarke Smith have both had to play tall this year. Hamling is pretty much our only genuine tall playing twos at the moment. This obviously evens out once Zaine is back from injury and to a lesser extent Jordan Kelly.

Just on the calls for Darcy Fort being rookie listed, are we not saving a spot on our list by effectively keeping him on Footscrays list. It's not as if we have lost him to another team and he gets an understanding of playing the bulldogs way at VFL level. He also couldn't get a game this week with Minson and Campbell playing VFL, so maybe our list is balanced in regards to Rucks.

I liked our 2014, we brought in good users of the footy and if you watch Footscray you get a sense of that.

[comrade]

We're still lacking a key defender with pace, another developing key forward, and a ruckman. We can't have another draft of munchkins, our VFL team is scarily small.

I think we can solve two problems by bringing in a genuine key defender, as it will allow Roughy to play as a ruckman and help out wherever is required across the ground.

#getcarlisle

[bornadog]

Just on the calls for Darcy Fort being rookie listed, are we not saving a spot on our list by effectively keeping him on Footscrays list.

If you are referring to my post, it was more a question, as I know nothing about him and whether he would be any good.

However, being on the Footscray list, surely we don't have first dibs for him if another club gets in first.

[Greystache]

I think we can solve two problems by bringing in a genuine key defender, as it will allow Roughy to play as a ruckman and help out wherever is required across the ground.

#getcarlisle

That would certainly help. BT make it happen!

[Twodogs]

Really noticeable isn't it. Jordan Russell and Roarke Smith have both had to play tall this year. Hamling is pretty much our only genuine tall playing twos at the moment. This obviously evens out once Zaine is back from injury and to a lesser extent Jordan Kelly.

Just on the calls for Darcy Fort being rookie listed, are we not saving a spot on our list by effectively keeping him on Footscrays list. It's not as if we have lost him to another team and he gets an understanding of playing the bulldogs way at VFL level. He also couldn't get a game this week with Minson and Campbell playing VFL, so maybe our list is balanced in regards to Rucks.

I liked our 2014, we brought in good users of the footy and if you watch Footscray you get a sense of that.


Do you think the reflex games the guys played a lot off during pre-season (futball, handball and that other one) helped with this? It seems like the kicker gets a little more time to dispose of the ball this year. Those games look to have helped with players' peripheral vision and all round game awareness.

[Twodogs]

If you are referring to my post, it was more a question, as I know nothing about him and whether he would be any good.

However, being on the Footscray list, surely we don't have first dibs for him if another club gets in first.

Someone told me at training last year that Fort's Vo2 levels are pretty bad. Whatever that means. Is it cardiovascular fitness? Can it be improved?

[bornadog]

Someone told me at training last year that Fort's Vo2 levels are pretty bad. Whatever that means. Is it cardiovascular fitness? Can it be improved?

V02 Max is the maximum amount of oxygen your body can use during exercise. It is used as a measure of your fitness.

The higher your VO2 max, the better your fitness level.

[bulldogtragic]

That would certainly help. BT make it happen!

I Actually tweeted the Griffen/Boyd (pick 1) trade two years ago and wasn't taken seriously by a particular journo I sent it to. Then I was first again last year to tweet him/them before Gordon actually called GWS and got a few favourites from them. With help from here.

So... I'm betting Carlisle will not be signing despite much internal pressure. A long way to go, but I'd be thinking we are the most likely destination if he wanders especially if we land a top 10 pick which would be much more than Ryder got them. Watch this space...

[bulldogtragic]

Someone told me at training last year that Fort's Vo2 levels are pretty bad. Whatever that means. Is it cardiovascular fitness? Can it be improved?

It means he can't develop a real tank needed for AFL. You can tweak it, but as I understand it is black mark for athletes. If that's true, it would explain why our team, in this case sport scientists, may have said 'no thanks'.

[SlimPickens]

If you are referring to my post, it was more a question, as I know nothing about him and whether he would be any good.

However, being on the Footscray list, surely we don't have first dibs for him if another club gets in first.

Darcy has been mentioned a few times. We are talking about our 2014 draft effort in which many have questioned why we didn't rookie a ruckman. I don't rate Darcy and actually think our ruck stocks are ok. My point is we are keeping him close and if we decide to rookie him our due diligence would be well and truly done. If someone else snaps him up, so be it.

[SlimPickens]

Do you think the reflex games the guys played a lot off during pre-season (futball, handball and that other one) helped with this? It seems like the kicker gets a little more time to dispose of the ball this year. Those games look to have helped with players' peripheral vision and all round game awareness.

No doubt, you can also include the drills done under duress/fatigue. Some of the clarity of decisions on Saturday showed that IMO.

[Twodogs]

No doubt, you can also include the drills done under duress/fatigue. Some of the clarity of decisions on Saturday showed that IMO.

Definatly.

Some of those repeat effort drills were brutal.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Darcy has been mentioned a few times. We are talking about our 2014 draft effort in which many have questioned why we didn't rookie a ruckman. I don't rate Darcy and actually think our ruck stocks are ok. My point is we are keeping him close and if we decide to rookie him our due diligence would be well and truly done. If someone else snaps him up, so be it.

Agree with all of this Slim.

I don't rate Fort at all, either.

I think we'll need to take a ruck in this year's draft/RD though.

[Dancin' Douggy]

But it counts for nothing if you don't get your picks right and then develop them well. Nothing lucky about that.
I agree bornadog.

We essentially had 3 years with top 10 picks to scoop up the top end talent.

We went to the market with a pick 4, a pick 5, and two 6's. (and a disgruntled pig shooter)

To come home from the market with Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli and T. Boyd in tow................ wow.
It's verging on fairy tale drafting. In fact...it IS fairy tale drafting.

[stefoid]

I want to see Caleb Daniel get a game, I think he has (had) the fitness and he definitely has the attitude to slot almost seamlessly into our midfield rotation.

Although if he does, it will probably be at the expense of honeychurch or hrovat.

[Happy Days]

I want to see Caleb Daniel get a game, I think he has (had) the fitness and he definitely has the attitude to slot almost seamlessly into our midfield rotation.

Although if he does, it will probably be at the expense of honeychurch or hrovat.

Wait for his knee to get better first

[Mofra]

Caleb doesn't have to debut this year. None of our kids do, they're longer term prospects,
Webb is ahead of the bell curve and Bailey Dale looks far better than I'd expect a 70kg draftee to look as well.

We've got Wallis to come back, Grant & Hunter to push for selection, Biggs & Darley waiting - no pressure needs to be applied to our kids at all

[josie]

Caleb doesn't have to debut this year. None of our kids do, they're longer term prospects,
Webb is ahead of the bell curve and Bailey Dale looks far better than I'd expect a 70kg draftee to look as well.

We've got Wallis to come back, Grant & Hunter to push for selection, Biggs & Darley waiting - no pressure needs to be applied to our kids at all

Agree, however it would be wonderful if he did. It's tantalising to see if his pure talent can overcome his stature and so many of us, and other club supporters to boot, are rooting for him to make it at the top level. I'm guessing he will get a game or two in seniors before year's end if his knee is ok. My reasoning is I think Bevo will rotate tired bodies and Caleb is such a good user/accumulator.

[Twodogs]

It's very early. Very!

But how did you think we went?
Did we cover our positional needs?
Any player excite you more than any others?
What's your initial impression? How do you think we went out of 10?

I tell you what. If we win a flag in 2016 I will give it 10/10.:cool:


Pfffft. But that ain't gonna happen. We just don't win flags.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting looking back at the first few pages with hindsight.

In our current land of the Giants, this draft is a giant - 3 premiership players and at least 4 blokes who should have long careers with Webb hopefully breaking through this year. The mix of players still compliments our list nicely.

[G-Mo77]

Geez I was adamant we needed KPD's back then. LOL

I bagged the Hamling selection but proved to be a gem fro us, pity we lost him. :(

Nailed 4 out of 5 picks so great draft.

What happened to Darcy Fort?

[bornadog]

Hamling will be awesome. Hard worker, athletic, 3 years in the system with Geelong...

This was spot on.

Reading through there were doubts on Caleb Daniel making it and lots of doubts on our defence.