What if Stringer had taken that mark?

[F'scary]

Season's Greetings. Just musing on how major historical events can turn on one little detail.

Let's go back to Round 23, 2014, Doggies vs GWS, Etihad Stadium, 30 seconds before the final siren. The scores are level. A long kick spears into our forward line towards a Stringer lead. Stringer has played a brilliant match being one of only a few who have kept us in the game. He hurls himself for one last effort and makes position to take a chest mark. If he takes it he will have a set shot from 50m out, within his range. Any score will win the game for the Dogs. He flies through the air twisting slightly to meet the ball...and drops it to the audible groans of the faithful. GWS rebounds and scores the winning goal with 10 seconds left.

What if Stringer had taken that mark and gone back to kick the winning score?

We would have ended the season on a high.

The way things go in football, it would have massively influenced the evaluation of our entire season and inspired proclamations for even better things in 2015.

Our coach would have been lauded for the positive direction he was taking the side.

Maybe the tensions in the dressing room would have been relieved enough for dialogue to take place, for discontent to be forgotten.

Maybe the Grifter would not have done what he did...

...if Stringer had just held that mark.

[bulldogtragic]

Season's Greetings. Just musing on how major historical events can turn on one little detail.

Let's go back to Round 23, 2014, Doggies vs GWS, Etihad Stadium, 30 seconds before the final siren. The scores are level. A long kick spears into our forward line towards a Stringer lead. Stringer has played a brilliant match being one of only a few who have kept us in the game. He hurls himself for one last effort and makes position to take a chest mark. If he takes it he will have a set shot from 50m out, within his range. Any score will win the game for the Dogs. He flies through the air twisting slightly to meet the ball...and drops it to the audible groans of the faithful. GWS rebounds and scores the winning goal with 10 seconds left.

What if Stringer had taken that mark and gone back to kick the winning score?

We would have ended the season on a high.

The way things go in football, it would have massively influenced the evaluation of our entire season and inspired influential proclamations for even better things in 2015.

Our coach would have been lauded for the positive direction he was taking the side.

Maybe the tensions in the dressing room would have been relieved enough for dialogue to take place, for discontent to be forgotten.

Maybe the Grifter would not have done what he did...

...if Stringer had just held that mark.

I'm not sure too much would've changed. RG was gotten to long ago. Jones was sulking in the VFL, Cooney & Higgins refused to defend or do anything, Tutt & Howard were not doing much in the VFL. Guys like Austin were getting games and injured guys were forced to play in agony the last half of the year. Macca made the Macrae comments weeks before which in hindsight was the first crack. All I think all that might have happened was to wall paper some cracks which in the long term would've been worse.

I copped some resistance a while back when I compared Neeld, Mickey Arthur (Aust Cricket Coach) and BMAC in terms of wins, personnel and style. They were near identical numbers/issues at the time. All 3 'development' coaches got axed with time on their contracts. I think fate was cast way before Jake.

I often have expressed concern we haven't bottomed out traditionally to get a pick 1 player. Usually when you drop down the ladder you go to the VERY bottom of the ladder, ergo getting the best player in Australia. In '12 & '13 we didn't plus GWS coming in and 2014 was looking the same and with Melbourne getting pick 3 compo. We needed to hit rock bottom to get a pick 1 superstar. We did. Maybe Stringer dropping the mark was in a fact a sliding door for a premiership? Book mark this thread for 6 or so years time.

[Remi Moses]

The apple had truly turned rotten no matter what happened .
Clearly there were major issues with players and McCartney from around halfway.
We made the best out of a crap turn of events .

[F'scary]

I'm not sure too much would've changed. RG was gotten too long ago. Jones was sulking in the VFL, Cooney & Higgins refused to defend or do anything, Tutt & Howard were not doing much in the VFL. Guys like Austin were getting games and injured guys were forced to play in agony the last half of the year. Macca made the Macrae comments weeks before which in hindsight was the first crack. AllI think all that might have happened was to wall paper some cracks which in the long term would've been worse.

I often have expressed concern we haven't bottomed out traditionally to get a pick 1 player. Usually when you drop down the ladder you go to the VERY bottom of the ladder, ergo getting a the best player in Australia. In '12 & '13 we didn't plus GWS coming in and 2014 was looking the same and with Melbourne getting pick 3 compo. We needed to hit rock bottom to get a pick 1 superstar. We did. Maybe Stringer dropping the mark was in a fact a sliding door for a premiership? Book mark this thread for 6 or so years time.

Your skillfully worked reference to the greatest chick flick of all time will strike a deep note within all Woofers. The Grifter - our very own Gwyneth Paltrow.

[F'scary]

Reflecting a bit, I think I agree with both of you, Remi & BT. The footy gods may have been smiling on us benevolently when they caused Stringer to drop the chest mark. Either that or they are trying to make us go mad.

[bulldogtragic]

Your skillfully worked reference to the greatest chick flick of all time.

When did I refer to 'definitely maybe'? That being the best chick flick of all time.

[bulldogtragic]

Reflecting a bit, I think I agree with both of you, Remi & BT. The footy gods may have been smiling on us benevolently when they caused Stringer to drop the chest mark. Either that or they are trying to make us go mad.

Yep, for the rest of the afternoon after they went coast to coast to win it sucked hard. The flip side, Stringer strikes me as a kid who will better himself for the disappointment he might have felt. If that helps him even 1% in the preseason that's a big win right there.

[Twodogs]

Yep, for the rest of the afternoon after they went coast to coast to win it sucked hard. The flip side, Stringer strikes me as a kid who will better himself for the disappointment he might have felt. If that helps him even 1% in the preseason that's a big win right there.

It would mean he is displaying 11% of his capacity by Bmac's reckoning.

[F'scary]

When did I refer to 'definitely maybe'? That being the best chick flick of all time. Sorry, but I'm a Sliding Doors man.

[boydogs]

Maybe you're right F'scary, I guess we'll never know

[jeemak]

BT you copped resistance when you compared Rhode with McCartney and if you want to now cop something with a Neeld comparison all power to you. It's just as stupid a comparison in my view.

Jake Stringer taking a mark in the hands - ergo - doing the things he should be doing without any issues doesn't make the weeks of poor man management disappear, nor does it grant Gruffyn a heart, or Cooney and Higgins some accountability.

A win in that game may have stopped us from acting now which would have been a terrible result for our club.

[Twodogs]

I've gotta say that I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out.

[Remi Moses]

Your skillfully worked reference to the greatest chick flick of all time will strike a deep note within all Woofers. The Grifter - our very own Gwyneth Paltrow.

Fair to say just like Gwyneth and Chris Martin Griffin and the dogs became uncoupled

[Flamethrower]

The cards fell nicely and we ended up with a once in the generation power forward we have never had in our history.

If Stringer takes that mark and we win a meaningless game, maybe it wallpapers over the many growing cracks at the club and we fall into an abyss from which there is no recovery.

At the same time Tom Boyd walks off the field watching us celebrate and makes it his lifelong goal to punish us every time he plays against us forever.

[Twodogs]

The cards fell nicely and we ended up with a once in the generation power forward we have never had in our history.

If Stringer takes that mark and we win a meaningless game, maybe it wallpapers over the many growing cracks at the club and we fall into an abyss from which there is no recovery.

At the same time Tom Boyd walks off the field watching us celebrate and makes it his lifelong goal to punish us every time he plays against us forever.

If the negotiations were taking place as early as Liam Pickering says they were he would have been thinking "I'll have to learn the words to that song"

[bulldogtragic]

BT you copped resistance when you compared Rhode with McCartney and if you want to now cop something with a Neeld comparison all power to you. It's just as stupid a comparison in my view.

Jake Stringer taking a mark in the hands - ergo - doing the things he should be doing without any issues doesn't make the weeks of poor man management disappear, nor does it grant Gruffyn a heart, or Cooney and Higgins some accountability.

A win in that game may have stopped us from acting now which would have been a terrible result for our club.

Perhaps I'm inarticulate. Comparing winning percentages of Neeld, Arthur and BMAC about 18 months ago in a thread it showed all three men having a winning percentage very, very similar. The three started near each other time wise too. So from a statistical and predictive point of view BMAC was in dangerous territory. I'm not comparing personalities. It's much like the political leadership percentage of under 30% as a predictor of a leader being changed. (See Gillard, Nelson, Latham, Howard first time etc, etc)

All three were hired as development coaches and all three had public issues such as Moloney and others wanting out, homework-gate in India and this year with Macca. All three were terminated at financial cost to the clubs. My comparison is only that all three careers shared many things along the way. The three men's similarities seem to show consistencies which can lend itself to predict change. I'm not sure sure why this is stupid, but I guess that's your prerogative. I think it's interesting to learn the lessons and look at the similarities to be able to predict coach changes in the future, beyond simple intuition. From memory when I mentioned cheap as chips it was a personal feeling for myself only late in the season that I felt disconsolate about circumstance like before Rhode got sacked.

[F'scary]

Maybe you're right F'scary, I guess we'll never know

The worst case scenario seems to be that if Stringer had taken that mark, the last-gasp win may have papered over the cracks just enough to push the problem into 2015 with even more toxicity.

[boydogs]

The worst case scenario seems to be that if Stringer had taken that mark, the last-gasp win may have papered over the cracks just enough to push the problem into 2015 with even more toxicity.

Something like what happened with Aker perhaps

[LostDoggy]

I've often thought about sliding doors / the butterfly effect and it just ended up hurting my head. Que Sera is a much easier way to look at life!

[jeemak]

Perhaps I'm inarticulate. Comparing winning percentages of Neeld, Arthur and BMAC about 18 months ago in a thread it showed all three men having a winning percentage very, very similar. The three started near each other time wise too. So from a statistical and predictive point of view BMAC was in dangerous territory. I'm not comparing personalities. It's much like the political leadership percentage of under 30% as a predictor of a leader being changed. (See Gillard, Nelson, Latham, Howard first time etc, etc)

All three were hired as development coaches and all three had public issues such as Moloney and others wanting out, homework-gate in India and this year with Macca. All three were terminated at financial cost to the clubs. My comparison is only that all three careers shared many things along the way. The three men's similarities seem to show consistencies which can lend itself to predict change. I'm not sure sure why this is stupid, but I guess that's your prerogative. I think it's interesting to learn the lessons and look at the similarities to be able to predict coach changes in the future, beyond simple intuition. From memory when I mentioned cheap as chips it was a personal feeling for myself only late in the season that I felt disconsolate about circumstance like before Rhode got sacked.


2012:

Neeld - 18.2%
McCartney - 22.7%

2013:

Neeld - 9.1%
McCartney - 36.4%

Career:

Neeld - 15.2
McCartney - 30.3%


I think better of you to suggest you're revising history BT, but the numbers - apart from the first year of measurement - desperately contradict the point you're trying to make. I've left Arthur out on purpose.

[The Doctor]

2012:

Neeld - 18.2%
McCartney - 22.7%

2013:

Neeld - 9.1%
McCartney - 36.4%

Career:

Neeld - 15.2
McCartney - 30.3%


I think better of you to suggest you're revising history BT, but the numbers - apart from the first year of measurement - desperately contradict the point you're trying to make. I've left Arthur out on purpose.

Whichever way you look at it the team's record under Macca it is pitiful. I wonder whether the media would have been so kind to Macca had Neeld been a better performed coach. Macca was probably lucky he had the incompetent Neeld taking all the battering!

I'm with Twodogs and am glad the way things have turned out. I'm glad to see the end of the Macca era but also glad to see the back of Cooney, Griffen, Higgins etc for all the reasons previously revealed and discussed. We needed a cleanout because we were bloody awful on and off the field.

[bulldogtragic]

2012:

Neeld - 18.2%
McCartney - 22.7%

2013:

Neeld - 9.1%
McCartney - 36.4%

Career:

Neeld - 15.2
McCartney - 30.3%


I think better of you to suggest you're revising history BT, but the numbers - apart from the first year of measurement - desperately contradict the point you're trying to make. I've left Arthur out on purpose.

As I said twice, I posted the post 18 months ago. I'm not making a new point. What was Maccas win record half through 2013 when I posted?

I will try to find the post. I'm not making a new point.

Edit: I posted when Macca was 22% and Neeld about the same in June 2013 when Neeld was about to be sacked. I never compared Neeld or Rhode as coaches, people or leaders. Simply numbers and situational similarity. I'm not entirely sure why your interested in this aspect, especially since we agree on the topic of the thread. The Doc makes good points above.

[BulldogBelle]

Whichever way you look at it the team's record under Macca it is pitiful. I wonder whether the media would have been so kind to Macca had Neeld been a better performed coach. Macca was probably lucky he had the incompetent Neeld taking all the battering!

I'm with Twodogs and am glad the way things have turned out. I'm glad to see the end of the Macca era but also glad to see the back of Cooney, Griffen, Higgins etc for all the reasons previously revealed and discussed. We needed a cleanout because we were bloody awful on and off the field.

Totally agree on this point. It was time to make some tuff decision's and turn the club around.

[Topdog]

As I said twice, I posted the post 18 months ago. I'm not making a new point. What was Maccas win record half through 2013 when I posted?

I will try to find the post. I'm not making a new point.

Edit: I posted when Macca was 22% and Neeld about the same in June 2013 when Neeld was about to be sacked. I never compared Neeld or Rhode as coaches, people or leaders. Simply numbers and situational similarity. I'm not entirely sure why your interested in this aspect, especially since we agree on the topic of the thread. The Doc makes good points above.

If everyone did things by numbers Clarkson would have been sacked too.

[Remi Moses]

If everyone did things by numbers Clarkson would have been sacked too.

Exactly . Mccartneys numbers are poor , but should be taken into account the mire he inherited.

[GVGjr]

Exactly . Mccartneys numbers are poor , but should be taken into account the mire he inherited.

McCartney was with us for 3 seasons and we are still rebuilding which is a sign of how the list was when he arrived. He made mistakes and clearly got frustrated with some in the playing group which has resulted in some critical departures.

Getting back to the opening post, it wouldn't have mattered of Stringer held the mark or not and what happened since wouldn't have changed too much at all.

Bev's got the team and his first chance of establishing this playing group. I'm hoping the club looks forward for what should be another tough season.

[bulldogtragic]

If everyone did things by numbers Clarkson would have been sacked too.

I'm not saying sack him due to the poor record, but rather due to it he was sacked. To articulate it another way, consider percentages, departures, public issues etc like supercoach or dream team points. Getting to 100 points get you sacked. Winning at 30% or less is 50 points. Public issues, dressing downs (ie Macca on Macrae, heaps for Neeld and Waters, Primus walking down to the rooms) is 20 points, issues with senior players 30 points etc. Poor media and others as supplementary points. All I said 18 months ago and now is my interest in comparing (now) all sacked recent coaches as a predictor for next time. Primus, Macca, Watters, Neeld were all considered best available and all were sacked with a contract still in place. What I'm thinking personally is trying to see the pattern out of my own interest for next time. If you look at the other three coaches sacked, the Macca sacking isn't as surprising as we took it.

As G says, I'd rather look forward than back.

[Danny the snakeman]

Don't worry about what if stringer had taken the mark,the question is what if libba's goal was given in the prelim.

[bulldogtragic]

Don't worry about what if stringer had taken the mark,the question is what if libba's goal was given in the prelim.

That's easy, we would've smashed St. Kilda. That's the salt in the wound.