String Theory - Can we move him into the midfield?

[GVGjr]

We all know Stinger is an exciting player. When we drafted him he was regarded as strong midfielder who could also play in the forward line but in his 2 years at the club he's mainly been used as a forward....and he has made an impact.

With Griffen and Cooney moving on I guess there is plenty room in the midfield for the big bodied Stringer and his bull at a gate playing style but I wonder if that is the right move for him and the club?

As a forward he kicked 26 goals from 18 games last season and a number of them were exciting ones. Can we afford to move him away from the 50mtr arc if we can't find someone capable of replacing 30 goals?

Now we would probably be hopeful that Tom Boyd steps up and gets close to those type of numbers but 2nd year key forwards typically need a bit more time before becoming productive.

So the questions are:

Where should Stinger mainly play next season?
What sort of playing time ratio should he spend in the forward line and the midfield?

I'd like him to spend nearly 40% of his time next season in the midfield but I can see why it might be more beneficial to leave him playing mainly in the forward line.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

It's great that Stringer has that flexibility. My preference is that he be released to play forward as much as possible because of his goal sense and presence up forward. That's next year but beyond that, with our recent recruiting of half forwards, he well may have a greater role to play in midfield unless he shows that he has exceptional goal kicking abilities which I suspect he has.

[boydogs]

He hasn't shown improvement with his endurance from the pre-season reports I have read

[bulldogtragic]

We all know Stinger is an exciting player. When we drafted him he was regarded as strong midfielder who could also play in the forward line but in his 2 years at the club he's mainly been used as a forward....and he has made an impact.

With Griffen and Cooney moving on I guess there is plenty room in the midfield for the big bodied Stringer and his bull at a gate playing style but I wonder if that is the right move for him and the club?

As a forward he kicked 26 goals from 18 games last season and a number of them were exciting ones. Can we afford to move him away from the 50mtr arc if we can't find someone capable of replacing 30 goals?

Now we would probably be hopeful that Tom Boyd steps up and gets close to those type of numbers but 2nd year key forwards typically need a bit more time before becoming productive.

So the questions are:

Where should Stinger mainly play next season?
What sort of playing time ratio should he spend in the forward line and the midfield?

I'd like him to spend nearly 40% of his time next season in the midfield but I can see why it might be more beneficial to leave him playing mainly in the forward line.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I tend to agree with about 1/3 in the midfield. I've been trying to think of a comparison player, who was big, aggressive, arrogant and with great skill. Mark Ricuto is the one coming to mind. If he's got it in him to get to Roo's level then he needs to rotate mid and forward. He's got great goal sense so he needs some time forward, but to kick goals you need players who can burst through and smash packs to win the footy. I'd like to think we could rotate forwards through the midfield through games which Hawthorn did very well this year. Bonts, Jake, Stew, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl etc.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I tend to agree with about 1/3 in the midfield. I've been trying to think of a comparison player, who was big, aggressive, arrogant and with great skill. Mark Ricuto is the one coming to mind. If he's got it in him to get to Roo's level then he needs to rotate mid and forward. He's got great goal sense so he needs some time forward, but to kick goals you need players who can burst through and smash packs to win the footy. I'd like to think we could rotate forwards through the midfield through games which Hawthorn did very well this year. Bonts, Jake, Stew, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl etc.

Maybe our trump card will become this ability to rotate forwards through the midfield like a tornado. Stevens included however I fear for Clay Smith and his knees.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe our trump card will become this ability to rotate forwards through the midfield like a tornado. Stevens included however I fear for Clay Smith and his knees.

Smith would be awesome if fit, but it's a big if now. I like Koby, but I think he should be a defensive forward. He seems uneasy in traffic and panic handballs way too much leading to turnovers. But in our 50 solely, his speed and aggression will be more effective IMO. The Hawks rotation method around their talls was very effective this year.

[1eyedog]

We all know Stinger is an exciting player. When we drafted him he was regarded as strong midfielder who could also play in the forward line but in his 2 years at the club he's mainly been used as a forward....and he has made an impact.

With Griffen and Cooney moving on I guess there is plenty room in the midfield for the big bodied Stringer and his bull at a gate playing style but I wonder if that is the right move for him and the club?

As a forward he kicked 26 goals from 18 games last season and a number of them were exciting ones. Can we afford to move him away from the 50mtr arc if we can't find someone capable of replacing 30 goals?

Now we would probably be hopeful that Tom Boyd steps up and gets close to those type of numbers but 2nd year key forwards typically need a bit more time before becoming productive.

So the questions are:

Where should Stinger mainly play next season?
What sort of playing time ratio should he spend in the forward line and the midfield?

I'd like him to spend nearly 40% of his time next season in the midfield but I can see why it might be more beneficial to leave him playing mainly in the forward line.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

...and here I was thinking we were about to discuss the replacement of particles...

[F'scary]

The idea of Stringer as a midfielder is enticing but there are two significant question marks: his stamina and his accumulation rate.

I think he has shown that as a deep or high forward he has pretty much got it all. He has a high-impact blitzkreig style of playing and does serious damage with as little as 10 possessions in a game.

I don't think he can go all day like the Grifter and Cooney, not now and not ever and this, I suspect, is because he has a pure Lockettian fast-twitch muscleature, the armour of the true power athlete.

For 2015, I think we need to look more towards further development from Macrae, Bonti, Wallis, and (with any luck) Jong and even Stevens to fill the gaps left by the Grifter and Cooney.

[F'scary]

Perhaps Crameri who does have a big tank could play more of a midfield role next year?

[GVGjr]

...and here I was thinking we were about to discuss the replacement of particles...

Don't get me started :)

[Twodogs]

I tend to agree with about 1/3 in the midfield. I've been trying to think of a comparison player, who was big, aggressive, arrogant and with great skill. Mark Ricuto is the one coming to mind. If he's got it in him to get to Roo's level then he needs to rotate mid and forward. He's got great goal sense so he needs some time forward, but to kick goals you need players who can burst through and smash packs to win the footy. I'd like to think we could rotate forwards through the midfield through games which Hawthorn did very well this year. Bonts, Jake, Stew, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahl etc.

I think he is more like Garry Ablett sr than Mark Riciutto myself. Maybe without the huge leap but he has the unerring goal sense.

[bulldogtragic]

I think he is more like Garry Ablett sr than Mark Riciutto myself. Maybe without the huge leap but he has the unerring goal sense.

Swagger wise for sure, but Gaz could jump on guys heads. I haven't seen Stringer do that yet, but I am willing to watch him try!!! . Roo or Gaz, either way I'm happy. Macca was very strong on Jake's potential as I've mentioned, it would be pretty cool in 20 years time to say our new recruit with hard work could be like Jake Stringer...

Or Tom Boyd. Or Bonts. Or Macrae. Or Libba.

[1eyedog]

Don't get me started :)

Like you I don't stop quickly on this subject.

I don't see us kicking more goals next year than what we did last year and with the exodus of Gia, Griffen and Jones who kicked 40 goals between them we need to find a 40 goal plus player next year just to help us break even. We'll miss midfield drive next year no question and I don't mind Stinger being transitioned for 10-15% of game time there but we are still much worse off for forwards than we are mids and for that reason I'm loath to see Stringer played away from the forward line any longer than that.

If he's playing 40-50% of game time in the middle next year we'll be lucky to kick 10 goals a game.

[1eyedog]

I meant to say that I see Boyd kicking perhaps a goal a game next year and if we get Dickson back and he can kick 25-30 then we are up on Gia, Jones and Griffen's output next year; however, this still doesn't seem like enough to feel comfortable with giving Stringer too much exposure to the midfield. Who knows maybe Dicko and Boyd will have a good start to the year. And then of course there is Jarrad Grant.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Jake stringer will be one of the greatest players the game has ever seen. Fact.

[Remi Moses]

As others posted I reckon Jake can play in short bursts until he gets a decent tank

[Go_Dogs]

I really like him as a midfielder, if he can demonstrate the ability to spend significant time there which is dependent on his running power.

He has a lot of attributes to become a very good midfielder, whilst he also has to potential to be a very good medium forward. A lot also depends on how the rest of our midfield develops, but at the moment Jong is the only big bodied bloke with serious wheels. Whilst Stringer isn't as quick, he's improved his pace recently (post-injury) and can get some separation over the first few steps and/or hit a contest at pace.

I don't see Macrae and Bonti developing into explosive mids, so as a point of difference, Stringer in there makes sense to me. Also no reason he can't be a mid who kicks 30 goals a year too, once he's established there.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I really like him as a midfielder, if he can demonstrate the ability to spend significant time there which is dependent on his running power.

He has a lot of attributes to become a very good midfielder, whilst he also has to potential to be a very good medium forward. A lot also depends on how the rest of our midfield develops, but at the moment Jong is the only big bodied bloke with serious wheels. Whilst Stringer isn't as quick, he's improved his pace recently (post-injury) and can get some separation over the first few steps and/or hit a contest at pace.

I don't see Macrae and Bonti developing into explosive mids, so as a point of difference, Stringer in there makes sense to me. Also no reason he can't be a mid who kicks 30 goals a year too, once he's established there.

Do I sense Go_Dogs that you have real concerns about our midfield minus the former no's 16 & 17?

[Old dog]

I think for a player to become a.truly damaging mid fielder he must have one attribute in abundance above all others and that's confidence.
Must be comfortable that if he makes errors he will get guidance not punishment etc.
Stringer has that belief in his own capacities and only needs opportunity.
He will succeed.
Old dog
Ho hum its late

[Go_Dogs]

Do I sense Go_Dogs that you have real concerns about our midfield minus the former no's 16 & 17?

Spot on.

Some of the things Griffen and Cooney were able to add (when at their best) was absolutely elite - the ability to win contested ball and spread from a contest, or receive in tight, evade and create their own space as time slows down around them. Whilst we have some handy players who may posses similar qualities, and can accumulate, we really lack some bull at the gate types that are true inside-out midfielders.

I'm not going to say Stringer can become as good a midfielder as those blokes were for us, but he has similar attributes which means he can, in combination with our other young mids, be a real point of difference. As we climb back up the ladder, and start playing finals footy again, he's the bloke I most want in the trenches, with Liberatore and Bontempelli, for those crucial clearance situations.

[boydogs]

Some of the things Griffen and Cooney were able to add (when at their best) was absolutely elite - the ability to win contested ball and spread from a contest, or receive in tight, evade and create their own space as time slows down around them.

What are your thoughts on Hrovat filling this role? A bit of that in this highlights package

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-12-29/focus-nathan-hrovat

[Go_Dogs]

What are your thoughts on Hrovat filling this role? A bit of that in this highlights package

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-12-29/focus-nathan-hrovat

I rate him pretty highly, but he's a lot smaller than the big bodied, modern midfielders. Certainly have him in my 22, but see him more as an inside receiver and outside player at this stage; his work forward of centre will be very important.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I think Griffen hasn't played his best possible football and it wouldn't surprise me if he wins the brownlow. However I'm hoping for serendipidity or perhaps Murphy's law, whereby, even though we will lack his burst and his talents, the new setup will somehow become better without him, perhaps by less explosive yet more effective methods, like simply better one-two's and backing up, like movement by hand or short kicks to someone with a little more space, the sort of stuff Macrae does so well so often. If the boys combine with this sure movement, then the brilliance and your Cooney's and Griffen bursts could become something we're better off without.

[The Doctor]

I would like to see Stringer become our Centre Half Forward

[jeemak]

He could play the role to some extent, possibly in the vein Robert Murphy did in 2008 though with a little more one on one strength.

I eventually see him being a midfielder/forward utility (the most dangerous type of player there is IMO) that spends 70% of time in the middle and 30% of time in the forward line.

How he gets there is anyone's guess, though you'd think he'll play at least the inverse of that for the next year or two and gradually tip it over to being majority midfield. By the time he's 25-26 he'll be in the top couple of handfuls of midfielders in the comp and the best utility going around (injury and space-cadetedness notwithstanding).

Whether he does that as a part time CHF I'm not sure. I'd like to see him as a short lead pocket/flanker that switches between high and low and exploits opponents with either his pace or strength, depending which he plays and who it plays on.

[1eyedog]

I would like to see Stringer become our Centre Half Forward

Same height as Carey, more mobile and will be just as big.

[jeemak]

Same height as Carey, more mobile and will be just as big.

Carey at 192cm played against guys who were at best 196cm at CHB, many (such as Leon Cameron on occasion) a touch smaller however the game has changed a lot since his day. He played his best footy almost 20 years ago.

Teams are getting better at pushing back to reduce space for forwards (third man up), and defenders are consistently taller and quicker than they used to be making it harder for forwards under 196cm tall. Especially at Docklands.

[1eyedog]

Carey at 192cm played against guys who were at best 196cm at CHB, many (such as Leon Cameron on occasion) a touch smaller however the game has changed a lot since his day. He played his best footy almost 20 years ago.

Teams are getting better at pushing back to reduce space for forwards (third man up), and defenders are consistently taller and quicker than they used to be making it harder for forwards under 196cm tall. Especially at Docklands.

I'm trying to think of one decent CHB @ 196 during the 90s. The best I can come up with are Jako @ 193 who owned Carey, Bluey McGrath who must have been lucky to be 190 and often played well on him and Craig Kelly @ 190. Then there's Roos who never really played on Carey. Fev has shown that a smallish key forward can wreck a huge amount of damage at Etihad if they're good enough.

[Twodogs]

I'm trying to think of one decent CHB @ 196 during the 90s. The best I can come up with are Jako @ 193 who owned Carey, Bluey McGrath who must have been lucky to be 190 and often played well on him and Craig Kelly @ 190. Then there's Roos who never really played on Carey. Fev has shown that a smallish key forward can wreck a huge amount of damage at Etihad if they're good enough.

Chris Grant copped a couple of awful hidings from Carey in the mid 90s. One of them at Whitten Oval was almost frightening to watch.

[jeemak]

I actually thought Jako was 196cm, but him being shorter just reinforces my point that forwards at 192cm had it a bit easier in the 90's than they do now.

Agree that Fev killed it at Docklands but he was a rare lead-up forward freak and the game has changed a lot in recent times and teams are better at killing off space to lead within.

[1eyedog]

I actually thought Jako was 196cm, but him being shorter just reinforces my point that forwards at 192cm had it a bit easier in the 90's than they do now.

Agree that Fev killed it at Docklands but he was a rare lead-up forward freak and the game has changed a lot in recent times and teams are better at killing off space to lead within.

Yeah agree it's probably the really hard working / explosive type players like Riewoldt / Fev that do well there. I think Stringer can do well there as a key forward. I think he already has but yes not in the Carey mould.

He actually played the Fev role a fair bit this year to great affect for us.

[stefoid]

I just keep coming back to the idea that, by design or accident, we have two giant classy guys who can potentially be elite big mids and cause a lot of damage running forward from the midfield, taking marks and kicking goals.

A number of teams have one such player - fyfe, pendlebury, dangerfield..., but none have two that I can think of. This could be the crucial point of difference for us.

[GVGjr]

Fyfe and Barlow fit the bill

[boydogs]

Which 2? Bonts, Stringer, Macrae, Stevens, Jong? :D

[jeemak]

Yeah agree it's probably the really hard working / explosive type players like Riewoldt / Fev that do well there. I think Stringer can do well there as a key forward. I think he already has but yes not in the Carey mould.

He actually played the Fev role a fair bit this year to great affect for us.

Perhaps a lot of things with Stringer will depend on how well we're moving the ball from defence and through the middle with him in the forward line, and whether we actually need him there or in the middle of the ground.

If we manage to pull together some decent ball movement in the coming two seasons then you might be right. If we're anything like we were these previous three years in that regard then he's going to be up against it as an undersized KPF.

[Mofra]

Which 2? Bonts, Stringer, Macrae, Stevens, Jong? :D
All huge - and none of them may reach the heights of our 22 year old truly elite best player who just took out our B&F at 182cm and is already one of the best contested players I have ever seen.

[boydogs]

All huge - and none of them may reach the heights of our 22 year old truly elite best player who just took out our B&F at 182cm and is already one of the best contested players I have ever seen.

Who do you think will have the better career, Tom Liberatore or Scott West?

[Twodogs]

Who do you think will have the better career, Tom Liberatore or Scott West?


Tom would have to be good to be better than Scooter. Scott West was a Gun.

[Mofra]

Tony would have to be good to be better than Scooter. Scott West was a Gun.
324 games and 7 B&Fs. Freak.

[Twodogs]

324 games and 7 B&Fs. Freak.

Kicked or handballed the ball 600+ times for five consecutive years.

[Go_Dogs]

Tony would have to be good to be better than Scooter. Scott West was a Gun.

When is he mounting his comeback?


Tom has a good chance of ending his career with a number of B&F awards, and multiple All Australian selections. He's also a proven Brownlow poller, so it's not impossible.

[Twodogs]

]When is he mounting his comeback?[/B]


Tom has a good chance of ending his career with a number of B&F awards, and multiple All Australian selections. He's also a proven Brownlow poller, so it's not impossible.

Heh! Tony looks fit enough to play.

[LostDoggy]

324 games and 7 B&Fs. Freak.

Tom may have some competition for B&F from the likes of Jackson and Bonts!

[LostDoggy]

Tom may have some competition for B&F from the likes of Jackson and Bonts!

Scotty West had some very very good competition himself!

[Bulldog Revolution]

Kicked or handballed the ball 600+ times for five consecutive years.

Perhaps the most consistently elite performer for us ever

[bornadog]

Perhaps the most consistently elite performer for us ever


and under rated by many supporters.

[westdog54]

Scotty West had some very very good competition himself!

Yep, shared an era with three other 300 gamers for the club.

[Twodogs]

Scotty West had some very very good competition himself!

Good point. He was one of the golden generation of the 2000s. His domination of thr the B&F during that time wasn't lording it over a bunch of mugs.


Perhaps the most consistently elite performer for us ever

Imagine how/what we could do with a player we could rely upon to win the ball 600x next year.

[Twodogs]

Yep, shared an era with three other 300 gamers for the club.

Luke Darcy was well on target too until injury got him. Bugger that last training session they did before Christmas that year.:mad:

[Ozza]

Back onto Stringer...right now - I see him as being a forward.
I'd like to see him pinch hit into the middle - particularly if he has periods where he is struggling to get into a game.
But for me - he's a goal kicker. He's one that kicked 22 in 9 games at the end of last year (which is 50 in a full season) and there isn't that many genuine goal kickers in the league, let alone our team.

I suspect opposition coaches would welcome him being further away from goal - as he will be a serious handful close to it.