Scott Welsh

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Rumours on BF that we're the club after his services. Anybody able to confirm whether or not this is in fact correct?

For mine, I wouldn't mind picking him up in the PSD for free. 2 or 3 years left? He's not an elite player, but he can cause problems. I think he was The Crows leading goal kicker for 2007 wasn't he? He's a strong mark, positions himself well, and is an accurate shot for goal. I think he'd be a nice fill in until Tiller, Everitt or Williams and one or two of our new draftees step up.

Injury concerns yes, but he did play 21 games in 2007 I read.

Worth a punt.

[GVGjr]

I wouldn't dismiss it because he has performed well against as and that is always good currency but I'm not convinced we really need him. He might be a bit better now than some of the guys we have on the list but he probably has already played his best footy and is never going to get any better. If we copped a few injuries between now and the draft we would probably reconsider.

[Go_Dogs]

I don't want him, but wouldn't be surprised if we look very closely at him. Once again, Johnno is about the only certainty on our list to kick goals, more are going to need to come from somewhere.

[The Underdog]

There is also that question about the incident towards the end of the year, which would come under a character issue.
He's often played well against us, but injuries have always popped up regularly during his career. He's not exactly a tall forward either. Until we get him at pick 4 in the PSD I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about what he's going to look like in a Dogs guernsey. I wouldn't write off the interest in him, but there's a lot of water to go under the bridge

[Dancin' Douggy]

worth a look for sure. Aside from Johnno who do we have in the forward line who would keep him out of the team? Murphy. Aker??

[dog town]

He is a good player but alot of it depends on where the list is headed and what we would be paying him. Would be interesting to see how he would fit into our game plan actually. The crows forwards and him in particular take alot of marks running back towards goal into space after pushing numbers into midfield. We play a little more conventionally up forward (with our positioning anyway) and it would interesting to see how he would adapt.

[BulldogBelle]

Why are the Crows delisting him?

[LostDoggy]

Why are the Crows delisting him?

They aren't, hey only want to offer a one year deal. Welsh will accept it as long as it has what looks to be an option to renew tacked on, incentives, they call it in the Advertiser. He may well end up staying at Adelaide.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I rate Welsh highly, I guess I haven't seen as much of him against other teams, but hes always played well against us.

Would his recruitment be a little too Russell Robertson like by us though (albeit a lot cheaper)?

It was interesting to see that recruiting Robertson was an issue that had divided the former coaching staff.

[LostDoggy]

Picking him up in the PSD will guarantee he won't kick goals against us like he always does, its a win-win situation.

[bornadog]

I thing he would be worth a punt as he won't be the focal point down there, but could be a handy player who can take a grab and take more pressure off Johnno.

[LostDoggy]

I thing he would be worth a punt as he won't be the focal point down there, but could be a handy player who can take a grab and take more pressure off Johnno.

I'm no sure about this. The thing that will take pressure off Johnson as the primary forward target is a gun full forward and Welsh isn't that. I'm not against this idea but it seems to be a short term solution.

What will help Johnson is the likes of Hahn, Murphy, Akermanis and Higgins kicking regular goals plus one key tall to stand up and be counted.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Why would he last until pick 4?

[Mantis]

Why would he last until pick 4?

I wouldn't think Carlton would be intersted as there forward line looks ok.

Richmond is a possibility, but you would think they will try and develop there younsters after failure this year of Kingsley.

Melbourne already have Robertson who is a similiar type and I would think Bailey will try and develop kids. It would look bad if he grabs Welsh and it fails.

He might fall through by this reasoning.

[FrediKanoute]

I suppose it depends who is also left in the draft. There are a couple of worthwhile options that will be in the PSD. Welsh is an inbetween player. For mine we have johnno, Aka, Higgins and Murphy as smalls in the forward line. I can't see Welsh adding anything to our team and in fact I think he'd hinder the development of guys like Tiller and Minson by taking up a forward line spot!

[Sockeye Salmon]

I suppose it depends who is also left in the draft. There are a couple of worthwhile options that will be in the PSD. Welsh is an inbetween player. For mine we have johnno, Aka, Higgins and Murphy as smalls in the forward line. I can't see Welsh adding anything to our team and in fact I think he'd hinder the development of guys like Tiller and Minson by taking up a forward line spot!

Welsh is 190cm - 1 cm shorter than Tiller. He's kicked over 50 goals in a season a couple of times and 49 last year.

He's inconsistant but leads and kicks well. Rather than hindering Tiller he would take some pressure off him and let play in a pocket or flank while he's learning the game. In 2-3 years when Welsh is done, Tiller would be more likely to be ready to take his spot.

At the moment Tiller is the most over-rated player on our list. The expectation on a kid who has played 5 games and never taken a contested mark in the AFL is unreasonable. I expect him to spend most of the year with Willi.

Minson is completely different to Weslsh and there's room in a forward line for both. Minson has also never shown anything as an AFL standard forward either.

If we had the chance to get Welsh in the PSD it would be a no-brainer.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Has officially quit the Crows!

http://afc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/4417/Default.aspx?newsId=53194

They intend to delist him rather than wait for him to go. He now has the option of nominating for the national draft or wait for the PSD.

Would he make it through to us at pick 4 of the PSD?
If he does nominate for the ND how early do you take him?

[mjp]

Has officially quit the Crows!

http://afc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/4417/Default.aspx?newsId=53194

They intend to delist him rather than wait for him to go. He now has the option of nominating for the national draft or wait for the PSD.

Would he make it through to us at pick 4 of the PSD?
If he does nominate for the ND how early do you take him?

Should get through to pick 4 I think. Mind you, Richmond have been known to do some odd things.

I dont see why he would go into the ND - the club that picks him could do what Adelaide have done (1 year deal) and he would have no leverage. If he needs two years, it has to be the PSD.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Its been an interesting off season for the crows

They've lost a fair bit of experience: Riccuito retired, Torney delisted. Plus Welsh, Hudson, Meesen, Mattner all quit the club.

And it will be very interesting to see where Welsh ends up

[Sockeye Salmon]

Its been an interesting off season for the crows

They've lost a fair bit of experience: Riccuito retired, Torney delisted. Plus Welsh, Hudson, Meesen, Mattner all quit the club.

And it will be very interesting to see where Welsh ends up

The Crows supporters were trying to blame Hudson for being a pratt who caused trouble. Seems to me that they have some others there who a few players didn't like.

[GVGjr]

The PSD is the best option of getting him. ND wise probably one of the last two selections.

Would Kepler Bradley be a better option?

[mjp]

To be truthful, I dont think any of us really know what Bradley might do in the future...he could turn into a useful leading forward, but no-one really knows for sure.

If we pick up Welsh AND if he can stay on the park, he will kick 40 goals a year for the next couple of seasons for what I expect would be a reasonable cap number. BUT. He in no-way fits the forward line structure that Eade has been trying to set up in that:

1/.He is not really a lead up, lead up, lead up target to give the on-ballers a target.
2/.He is not really a long-kick, marking target (think the way he tried to use Darcy and Hahn at various stages).

I think he is a pretty good player - but to me he is a slower, less hard leading, less versatile version of Brad Johnson. His best spot is full-forward, and how will that work out?

The question wont be should we pick him - but are we prepared to change the structure of the side to enable him to be successful?

[Sockeye Salmon]

To be truthful, I dont think any of us really know what Bradley might do in the future...he could turn into a useful leading forward, but no-one really knows for sure.

If we pick up Welsh AND if he can stay on the park, he will kick 40 goals a year for the next couple of seasons for what I expect would be a reasonable cap number. BUT. He in no-way fits the forward line structure that Eade has been trying to set up in that:

1/.He is not really a lead up, lead up, lead up target to give the on-ballers a target.
2/.He is not really a long-kick, marking target (think the way he tried to use Darcy and Hahn at various stages).

I think he is a pretty good player - but to me he is a slower, less hard leading, less versatile version of Brad Johnson. His best spot is full-forward, and how will that work out?

The question wont be should we pick him - but are we prepared to change the structure of the side to enable him to be successful?

I would argue that we haven't exactly been successful with the structure we have.

Surely a 2nd Brad Johnson would be a good thing - even if he is a poor man's version.

He leads to the right spots and can convert.

What makes it a no-brainer is that he's heaps better than any other key forward we have - in fact, new draftees aside, we would be doubling the number of 190+ forwards on our list!

[Templeton31]

My first reaction is not that keen. It sounds like he's not afraid of a party off-field and IIRC he missed big sections of the season with injury fairly regularly.

But I can certainly see the argument to pick him up. We only have 1 established guaranteed-to-do-the-job forward in Johnno. While Welsh isnt as 'guaranteed' as Johnno, 3*50 goal seasons suggests someone who will most likely dtj (do-the-job). More so than say when we picked up Doogs. He certainly seems to know how to get out on his own in the fwd line, can take the odd screamer and always infuriates me when he plays us and kicks 7 or 8. I would say he is a very similar style fwd to Robertson and given it sounds like Rocket went pretty hard after Robbo it would suggest we would be interested.

Actually I think I've just talked myself into it. ;) The way I abused him when we played at Football Park last season as being soft and wouldn't chase I'd say he is a cert to come to the Dogs. ;)

[mjp]

I would argue that we haven't exactly been successful with the structure we have.

Surely a 2nd Brad Johnson would be a good thing - even if he is a poor man's version.

He leads to the right spots and can convert.

What makes it a no-brainer is that he's heaps better than any other key forward we have - in fact, new draftees aside, we would be doubling the number of 190+ forwards on our list!

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I guess my point was he wont just plug straight in, and if there is not some kind of acknowledgement of that then it will be a massive failure. Welsh is NOT going to change - if we get him, we are getting him 'as is', and we need to give him a chance to do what he does well, and not expect him to become something different at 30 years of age.

On your previous comments re- Tiller:

1/.50-game rule. You know this. Any player who has played 5 games and NOT hailed a superstar is in real strife.
2/.I liked one thing - he went back one week and actually had a go when things weren't going well. To me, that showed character and game me hope for the future.
3/.Tom Williams is the most over-rated player on our list by supporters (again, 50-game rule, I know, but apparently he is the saviour of our forward line - where he has never even played - whilst Tiller is generally being seen as a 3rd tall option.)

Geez, I wish the draft period was over.

[aker39]

I
3/.Tom Williams is the most over-rated player on our list by supporters (again, 50-game rule, I know, but apparently he is the saviour of our forward line - where he has never even played - whilst Tiller is generally being seen as a 3rd tall option.)

Geez, I wish the draft period was over.


I've never read or heard any bulldog supporter say that he is the saviour of our forward line.

[GVGjr]

Really before we even think about getting Welsh or Bradley we need to work out if 2008 is a development year or if we are a finals contender. If it is the latter then we should consider them. If its a development year then lets give other younger players the opportunity.

The only other consideration is trying to get competitive again after a very poor 2007. This might alter the thinking because they wouldn't want to give the fans a dreadful start to the 2008 season especially after the last 7 weeks of 2007.

[aker39]

John Reid just said on SEN that he thinks the Bulldogs have told him they will offer him a 2 year contract.

[mjp]

I've never read or heard any bulldog supporter say that he is the saviour of our forward line.

Really? Never heard anyone mention that Williams will move to CHF and be the great white hope? You must lead a sheltered existence!

[Mantis]

Really before we even think about getting Welsh or Bradley we need to work out if 2008 is a development year or if we are a finals contender. If it is the latter then we should consider them. If its a development year then lets give other younger players the opportunity.

The only other consideration is trying to get competitive again after a very poor 2007. This might alter the thinking because they wouldn't want to give the fans a dreadful start to the 2008 season especially after the last 7 weeks of 2007.

We dont really have any young natural forwards besides Tiller and perhaps the 2 or more we draft this year who along with Tiller aren't/ wont be able to play 22 games at a consistent level.

We went into the trade period looking for a tall forward, but it didn't work out. Perhaps we may be able to get one via the PSD. Welsh probably doesn't fit all of our requirements, but he is better in some ways than what we currently have.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Really before we even think about getting Welsh or Bradley we need to work out if 2008 is a development year or if we are a finals contender. If it is the latter then we should consider them. If its a development year then lets give other younger players the opportunity.

The only other consideration is trying to get competitive again after a very poor 2007. This might alter the thinking because they wouldn't want to give the fans a dreadful start to the 2008 season especially after the last 7 weeks of 2007.

Give which younger players the opportunity?

Tiller is the only forward we have on our list over 190cm - and at 191 he only just makes it.

Any kid we pick up this year won't be able to do the job for a few years, around the time Welsh will be giving it away.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I am in agreement with most that Welsh is a good player but am unsure how he helps our forward structure.

And he seems to provide many of the things that are already provided by a projected forward line of Higgins, Johnson, Murphy and Hahn. But maybe it works because it adds more fire power - what are his chasing and tackling like. Hes obviously got good foot speed.

I see 2007 as a development year, but I believe making the finals should be the goal of that development.

[aker39]

Really? Never heard anyone mention that Williams will move to CHF and be the great white hope? You must lead a sheltered existence!



On here 7 days a week.
Listen to SEN 24/7

If that's a sheltered life, than yes.

[Raw Toast]

John Reid just said on SEN that he thinks the Bulldogs have told him they will offer him a 2 year contract.

You'd think some club must have guaranteed him a favourable contract for him to walk from the Crows - that said, you'd any expect any two-year offer from us or another club would include some large-ish performance based elements.

Two questions:

1) I don't know much about Welsh except that he seems a hot or cold player, who's assessed pretty negatively be many Crows fans, in particular for his kicking for goal. How comparable is he to Robertson - does he work as hard, does he take many contested marks, and can he be banked on to at least bring the ball to ground? Sounds like he might be a bit more of a leading forward to me. If so could he play a Hansen-like role and what is his decision-making like?

2) Is it just because I live in Melbourne that I haven't seen much scrutiny of Adelaide? We might have had an exodus of coaching staff but the Crows seem in at least as much, if not more of a review.

[mjp]

On here 7 days a week.
Listen to SEN 24/7

If that's a sheltered life, than yes.

Let's run a straw poll then...

In fact, it was only a couple of weeks ago on this very site that Sockeye and myself were the first in a list of names suggesting that Williams to CHF would not be a success...

Like I say, I am surprised that you have not heard this suggestion...it is almost as pervasive as the move Harris to FF one.

[aker39]

Let's run a straw poll then...

In fact, it was only a couple of weeks ago on this very site that Sockeye and myself were the first in a list of names suggesting that Williams to CHF would not be a success...

Like I say, I am surprised that you have not heard this suggestion...it is almost as pervasive as the move Harris to FF one.


Maybe when I read crap suggestions like both of those, I just switch off.

[mjp]

Maybe when I read crap suggestions like both of those, I just switch off.

Excellent. You can be on the same list as SS and me!

We have 3! (Though in fairness to Mantis, I think he jumped on as well).

[Mantis]

Excellent. You can be on the same list as SS and me!

We have 3! (Though in fairness to Mantis, I think he jumped on as well).

Yes I did, Williams for me looks a natural defender.

I am a little keen for Harris to venture up forward, but I may keep those thoughts to myself.

[GVGjr]

Give which younger players the opportunity?

Tiller is the only forward we have on our list over 190cm - and at 191 he only just makes it.

Any kid we pick up this year won't be able to do the job for a few years, around the time Welsh will be giving it away.


Everitt, McDougall or even try Hargrave there. Skipper and Minson as supposed to be given their chances up forward as well.
Welsh is OK and has done well against us but if 2008 is regarded as a development year wouldn't we be better giving the other guys a chance?
If 2007 was just a hiccup then yes lets look at him.

[The Underdog]

I'm a non-believer in both the Williams for CHF and Harris for FF, although I would be prepared to give Brian a shot during the PRE- season. He is a good overhead mark but to me I'm not sure about his leading or kicking for goal. He's a born FB to me, but hey I've been wrong before.

As for Welsh. I'm reasonably keen. It's looking more likely that we've offered him a contract. As long as we aren't overpaying for him then I think it's worth throwing the dice. At the least Welsh gives us an option who knows how to play in the forward line. As long as he can stay fit, which has been his other problem.
I've got time for Tiller and like the attitude he brought to the table in his games last year, but he won't be a reliable option for a little while yet.
We also have 7 picks and can use the other 6 on young options, while picking up Welsh to replace a little bit of experience. although it appears as though he is a bit of a dick, but then we still got Aker.
He also isn't the saviour who will bring us a premiership.

[Sockeye Salmon]

With his body shape, Everitt would get killed playing forward. He wasn't even a forward in U18's, so what makes you think he could do the job for us? He's also about 6 months older than half of this years draftees.

Mcdougall failed miserably as a forward but has shown some encouraging signs as a backman. He could return to the forward line at some point in the future but I'd rather see him play 2 years at CHB, become an established first XVIII player and see how he went with a bit of selection security behind him.

Hargrave looks lost as a forward and is only 2 years younger than Welsh anyway.

[Throughandthrough]

Welsh would be good, as long as he stays off the turps.

[GVGjr]

With his body shape, Everitt would get killed playing forward. He wasn't even a forward in U18's, so what makes you think he could do the job for us? He's also about 6 months older than half of this years draftees.

Mcdougall failed miserably as a forward but has shown some encouraging signs as a backman. He could return to the forward line at some point in the future but I'd rather see him play 2 years at CHB, become an established first XVIII player and see how he went with a bit of selection security behind him.

Hargrave looks lost as a forward and is only 2 years younger than Welsh anyway.

Try Wight as an option then but it's not really the point I was trying to make. Is it worth adding someone like Welsh to the team if the 2008 season is supposed to be a development one? If we think 2007 was just a hiccup then yes lets look at him.

[W W Biscuit]

Take this for what it is worth, but I recall a couple of old BF threads focusing on players that posters had met (yeah, I know...). Scott Welsh came in for an absolute bagging from quite a few contributors, moreso than any other player. Might be all BS, but interesting that doubts about his character have surfaced since, through his exploits that are in the public domain.

[LostDoggy]

Take this for what it is worth, but I recall a couple of old BF threads focusing on players that posters had met (yeah, I know...). Scott Welsh came in for an absolute bagging from quite a few contributors, moreso than any other player. Might be all BS, but interesting that doubts about his character have surfaced since, through his exploits that are in the public domain.

He is a talented no question but he isn't considered to be a committed player either. My gut feel is that he will play for the Dees if he nominates for the pre season draft.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Try Wight as an option then but it's not really the point I was trying to make. Is it worth adding someone like Welsh to the team if the 2008 season is supposed to be a development one? If we think 2007 was just a hiccup then yes lets look at him.

But isn't what you're saying really the same as "we can't win it this year so we might as well tank"?

If that's the case go the whole hog, play all the kids and pick up the no. 1 pick next year.

I don't think Welsh will hold back the development of any kids, that's my point. Wight will never make it as a FF, CHF perhaps, in which case having a decent FF can only help him.

We have no options to play FF.

[GVGjr]

But isn't what you're saying really the same as "we can't win it this year so we might as well tank"?

If that's the case go the whole hog, play all the kids and pick up the no. 1 pick next year.

I don't think Welsh will hold back the development of any kids, that's my point. Wight will never make it as a FF, CHF perhaps, in which case having a decent FF can only help him.

We have no options to play FF.

An assessment needs to be done to evaluate if we are a genuine finals contender or if adding a player like Welsh will make us one. If the answer is no to both of those questions then I don't think we should select him regardless of if we have a FF on our list or not.
I don't condone tanking any game let alone a season.

[LostDoggy]

We should consider him. He can play in a position we aren't exactly flush with options plus he can kick goals. The main consideration is if we have him at full forward will other players like Johnson and Murphy and Akermanis benefit by it? I really hope so

[FrediKanoute]

in horse racing parlance....proven sprinter who is more than capable in this class. If given a decent run will make the most of his opporunities but unlikely to tough it out when the going is hard. Prefer Others.

[The Underdog]

Don't know if anyone else heard it but on 3AW tonight G.Healy said "Whispers" had said that Welsh would most likely be going to Richmond. That seems mental to me after the Kingsley debacle last year, but maybe they're doing it just to spite us.

Although to put "Whispers" in context, he apparently also told Gerard that he was down at WO and Scotty Clayton is very keen on Jarrad Grant, but also McEvoy and Henderson.
Not just anyone can come up with top level info like that :rolleyes: .

I would imagine that we are still the club most likely to be chasing Welsh, but I could see a couple of others in the running too.

[soupman]

I think his selection could be to play a similiar role to Robbins in 2006. Robbins struggled last year due to a number of factors, one of them since removed in Darcy. Welsh, who would be playing the same role (our second target up forward out of the goalsquare) could well kick a good 40 goals for the season.

I think without him we are a good chance of finals, but with him it gives us another target up forward and takes the pressure off Tiller and Skipper, who are no guarentees to develop as a key forward this year or ever.

I personally would like to see Skipper given a chance up forward, but having Welsh gives us a hopefully reliable option if Skipper falls on his arse. I wouldn't mind giving Kepler Bradley a run if we could get him cheap, but seeing as Fremantle will probably pick him up around the 40 something mark then Welsh could be the more viable option.

As for other options up forward I would resist the temptation to throw Harris oir Williams there, as I think neither are going to be key forwards next year and both are too important to the backline.

I would however be keen to try Hargrave in a flanker type role every now and then, as he is a quick tallish bloke who can kick a goal. Minson to full-forward I'm not sure about, but if it as purely in a role to bring the ball to the groiund at a certain spot for our crumbers then it could work ie. Minson spoils the ball slightly to the left of the pack where Akermanis is running past, kind of like an in play ruck contest.

So the positions I would like to see various tall players played next year are
Defence: Harris, Williams, McDougall, Morris, O'Shea
Forward: Tiller, Skipper, Murphy, Minson
Mixture: Hargrave, Everitt, Wight

I don't expect O'Shea to play much next year, if at all, but think Wight could be good, and seeing as our backline is looking more solid than our forwardline he should be given a run up there. Everiit I think is going to be a tall half-back who can pinch-hit up forward so I would consider him a second Hargrave for the moment.

[Go_Dogs]

Well, imo we are about the front runners to claim him. Not sure I am overly enthusiastic. Adelaide media (as always) have gone into damage control mode for the Crows, stating the main reason for his leaving was due to 'off field issues'.

I've seen Welsh out and about in the city on a few occasions and never really thought he looked like he was partying too hard.

It's his body that worries me.

[The Coon Dog]

Can I just clarify this off field issue, is it right that he hit an 18 year old girl in the face with his jumper?

If true, then silly & disrespectful, yes, but certainly not in the league of other off field transgressors of recent times!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Can I just clarify this off field issue, is it right that he hit an 18 year old girl in the face with his jumper?

If true, then silly & disrespectful, yes, but certainly not in the league of other off field transgressors of recent times!

I heard a snipet on SEN that Welsh has said publically that his first choice is us.

I didn't hear the actual interview. Anyone?

[The Underdog]

Can I just clarify this off field issue, is it right that he hit an 18 year old girl in the face with his jumper?

If true, then silly & disrespectful, yes, but certainly not in the league of other off field transgressors of recent times!

Apparently that was the case. Although the Crows are talking up his general off-field discipline and intimating that he's pretty fond of a drink. There's definitely a bit of covering their own arse in that I reckon.

[Throughandthrough]

Apparently that was the case. Although the Crows are talking up his general off-field discipline and intimating that he's pretty fond of a drink. There's definitely a bit of covering their own arse in that I reckon.


There has been much rumour, innuendo and speculation about Welsh's night time activities in Adelaide for a few years.

I've no idea if it is true.

[LostDoggy]

Can I just clarify this off field issue, is it right that he hit an 18 year old girl in the face with his jumper?

If true, then silly & disrespectful, yes, but certainly not in the league of other off field transgressors of recent times!

I think there was a bit more than that and I have to say showing that sort of disrespect to a young lady is an extremely weak effort.

[dog town]

You'd think some club must have guaranteed him a favourable contract for him to walk from the Crows - that said, you'd any expect any two-year offer from us or another club would include some large-ish performance based elements.

Two questions:

1) I don't know much about Welsh except that he seems a hot or cold player, who's assessed pretty negatively be many Crows fans, in particular for his kicking for goal. How comparable is he to Robertson - does he work as hard, does he take many contested marks, and can he be banked on to at least bring the ball to ground? Sounds like he might be a bit more of a leading forward to me. If so could he play a Hansen-like role and what is his decision-making like?

2) Is it just because I live in Melbourne that I haven't seen much scrutiny of Adelaide? We might have had an exodus of coaching staff but the Crows seem in at least as much, if not more of a review. I certainly dont see him playing the Hansen role. He is more of a clever floater as a forward and just finds space. He is pretty good leading out of the square as a smallish full forward but under Craig has actually got most of his goals running back towards goal and into space as most Adeliade forwards have. He is one of those guys that just out positions his opponent in a marking contest and seems to read the flight of the ball better than his opponent. Pretty good body on body against similar size opponents.

Top quality footballer on his day but like some I have 2 queries. Where does he fit in terms of team structure and where does this say Eade thinks we are at overall?

[The Coon Dog]

I think there was a bit more than that and I have to say showing that sort of disrespect to a young lady is an extremely weak effort.

So, what was it he did?

[hargs37]

I can't believe some of the responses here. Are we in development mode? We are always in that mode. Doesnt mean we cant have any on field success.Look at collingwood this year. Prelim with a team of kids playing their arses off. Worried whether Welsh will fit into our forward line. With the likes of Johnno, Aker, Murph and Higgins any height is good. If he can kick 40+ for the season, and the others mentioned also find some form in front of goal, we have a situation similar to a couple of years ago. Add goals from the mid field types in Cooney, Griffen and even Gilbee, goal kicking shouldn't be a problem. That brings me to another point raised here. Why would anyone contemplate moving either Harris or Williams from their current position. Harris is top5 FB in the comp. Williams will be a monster at CHB, and that won't be too far away. Moving Wight forward could kill him. Think personally that Skipper deserves another chance and a little form late in the year suggest he'll be given that chance. We have to all forget about the last 7 weeks of the season. When we take to the field round 1, the players certainly wont have had to read any articles over the off season regarding them as the best rated Victorian team in the comp. They are starting again from scratch. Lets see what the future brings. Let the boys do their jobs!

[LostDoggy]

Let's run a straw poll then...

In fact, it was only a couple of weeks ago on this very site that Sockeye and myself were the first in a list of names suggesting that Williams to CHF would not be a success...

Like I say, I am surprised that you have not heard this suggestion...it is almost as pervasive as the move Harris to FF one.

I agree MJP, IMO Williams doesnt know the game well enough yet to play a vital role at CHF. He will be better playing as a defender with having to mark a player and the ball coming into the oppositions forwards.
Maybe when he learns the game more, (ie where to position himself on the field) he may be considered for a forward line role

[Raw Toast]

I certainly dont see him playing the Hansen role. He is more of a clever floater as a forward and just finds space. He is pretty good leading out of the square as a smallish full forward but under Craig has actually got most of his goals running back towards goal and into space as most Adeliade forwards have. He is one of those guys that just out positions his opponent in a marking contest and seems to read the flight of the ball better than his opponent. Pretty good body on body against similar size opponents.

Top quality footballer on his day but like some I have 2 queries. Where does he fit in terms of team structure and where does this say Eade thinks we are at overall?

Thanks DT.

Reports from Crows supporters indicate his defensive pressure is also actually pretty good, which is an encouraging sign.

I don't think Eade reckons we are re-building in any major way - why spend all that effort getting Hudson (instead of say Wood) unless you think we're a big chance in at least 09 and 2010.

Eade must have a v clear structure in mind given how hard he persued Roberston (reportedly against the advice of the other coaches) and now Welsh (though Welsh sounds less versatile). And given the amount of times that every defender has been suggested as a forward saviour it does make sense to pick someone like him up.

I wonder if this will help or hinder Minson's attempts to become a forward.

[aker39]

I don't think Eade reckons we are re-building in any major way




And that is why Chris Grant should have been encouraged to go on one more year.

I know this is off topic, but if we were to fluke a flag next year, my enjoyment would be tempered by the fact that Chris is not a part of it.

I'll stop dreaming and get back to work know.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I can't believe some of the responses here. Are we in development mode? We are always in that mode. Doesnt mean we cant have any on field success.s!

I thought about whether we were or weren't when in development mode before I responded. Initially I thought well you are always in development aren't you?

But I think the reality is that you aren't always. You are still hoping that your players improve. And you are always developing your young players but they aren't always going to get games at the expense of winning games.

If you look at Geelong last year I dont think they weren't in development mode. And if they were they would have played Tom Hawkins, Brent Prismall, and Travis Varcoe more than they did. Those players got some games but the team was focused on winning games, winning the premiership and accepted that that approach would provide less development games for their kids.

I think its arguable that West Coast and Sydney were also not in a development mode. They still played kids but they were aiming to win a flag

[southerncross]

I found this report about Welsh

SCOTT Welsh had no choice but to leave Adelaide, according to his manager Craig Vozzo.
As Melbourne yesterday dropped out of the running for his services and the Western Bulldogs firmed as frontrunners, Vozzo said the lure of a two-year contract - rather than the one year offered by the Crows - was too good to knock back.
"At the end of the day, Scott had to make a decision which was in his best interests and in the best interests of his family," Vozzo said. "And that's what he's done."
Expressing surprise that a compromise could not be reached with Adelaide, Vozzo said he "explored every avenue" to keep four-times leading goalkicker Welsh at West Lakes but in the end the figures did not add up.
Welsh wanted "performance incentives" in his one-year contract from Adelaide which would have guaranteed him a second year if he met them. But when that was flatly refused, Welsh walked.
It is understood he was concerned without the clauses - and the Crows' hard-nosed decision to regenerate their squad - he might have been cut at the end of next season regardless of how he played.
His concern rose after the Crows axed veterans Jason Torney and Matthew Bode at the end of the season and refused to give lead ruckman Ben Hudson the three-year deal he wanted. Welsh, 29 next month, is likely to follow Hudson to the Whitten Oval.
Adelaide maintains it won't offer long-term contracts to players who have had off-field behavioural problems, such as Welsh - who has been the Crows' leading goalkicker in three of the past four years - and Hudson.
"Scott didn't want to leave Adelaide but having made the decision he leaves with a lot of good memories and friends," Vozzo said.
"He's confident things will work out for him and in the end he will have made the right decision."
Welsh, who is refusing to speak publicly about his move, will nominate for the December 11 pre-season draft where the Bulldogs are waiting with pick four.
Vozzo refused to say which club had guaranteed Welsh a two-year deal, simply saying: "I'm very confident he'll get that."
"As his management, we've done the due diligence and we're satisfied there's going to be plenty of interest in him in the pre-season draft.
"I think he is going to be one of the best players in the pre-season draft and that his name will get called out at some point."
Melbourne, which has pick three, yesterday joined wooden spooner Richmond and 15th-placed Carlton in ruling itself out of the running for the leading forward.
"We're not in the running for Scott," Demons recruiting manager Craig Cameron said. "We've never spoken to him or his manager and with our list at the moment we're looking for younger fellas."
The Bulldogs, who have maintained their silence on Welsh, are desperate for another key forward.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What a crock of shit.

Jason Torney and Matthew Bode have never had any issues and they got the Kyber as soon as they turned 30.

[BulldogBelle]

Jason Torney and Matthew Bode have never had any issues and they got the Kyber as soon as they turned 30.

Yep I agree, those two definitely got the raw end of the stick.

[bulldogtragic]

Is there anybody with a strait face who can say there is even one once of loyalty left in this game.

[mjp]

Is there anybody with a strait face who can say there is even one once of loyalty left in this game.

The actions of the Adelaide Footy Club are a good reason why some form of Free Agency has to be introduced. The players - not the superstars, but just good, honest footballers trying to carve out a career - do not have enough power.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The actions of the Adelaide Footy Club are a good reason why some form of Free Agency has to be introduced. The players - not the superstars, but just good, honest footballers trying to carve out a career - do not have enough power.

I think this years trade period is a perfect example of why free agency shouldn't be introduced.

Hudson, Meeson, Mattner and Welsh all wanted out of Adelaide and all got what they wanted. In three out of the four cases Adelaide got compensated as well.

King, Gardiner, Moran, Power, Hadley and Dempster all basically got given away for practically nothing to where they wanted to go.

Judd, Wood, Schnieder and McMahon were all still wanted by their clubs but they got to go where they wanted and their clubs were duly recompensed.

Essendon were pricks to Bradley but it looks like he will end up at Freo anyway and Essendon got nothing.

The system works better now than it ever has.

[Topdog]

I agree with Sock. It is now actually a system that is working well as teams realise there is not much point holding others to ransom.

2 years in a row the Bulldogs had an opportunity to hold a team to ransom but didnt.

2 years in a row Dogs and West Coast worked the system to a tee and made players happy still.

Geelong this year were brilliant with their handling of Playfair and Gardiner.

Even Adelaide with Craig who has always hated trading were willing to let players go to a club of their choice.

The only losers this year was Essendon.

[mjp]

I agree with Sock. It is now actually a system that is working well as teams realise there is not much point holding others to ransom.

2 years in a row the Bulldogs had an opportunity to hold a team to ransom but didnt.

2 years in a row Dogs and West Coast worked the system to a tee and made players happy still.

Geelong this year were brilliant with their handling of Playfair and Gardiner.

Even Adelaide with Craig who has always hated trading were willing to let players go to a club of their choice.

The only losers this year was Essendon.

Ummm....And what of Jason Torney?

[Topdog]

Ummm....And what of Jason Torney?

please expand. I honestly have no idea about what happened to him.

[Raw Toast]

Ummm....And what of Jason Torney?

Good question Mike, but what kind of free trade provision would help Torney? If Adelaide shopped him around during trade week then presumably there were no takers at any price (ie pick 8 or so). And if anyone wants him they can get him for free now.

I agree he's been harshly treated - it sounds like his season was at least good. I find it hard to imagine a structure that would stop a club treating a player like this though. Would he be at another team if he was a free agent before trade week? (I presume he was delisted after trade week.) I don't think so.

[The Underdog]

Good question Mike, but what kind of free trade provision would help Torney? If Adelaide shopped him around during trade week then presumably there were no takers at any price (ie pick 8 or so). And if anyone wants him they can get him for free now.

I agree he's been harshly treated - it sounds like his season was at least good. I find it hard to imagine a structure that would stop a club treating a player like this though. Would he be at another team if he was a free agent before trade week? (I presume he was delisted after trade week.) I don't think so.

I was going to post something about Torney earlier as I felt he may have been the unluckiest delisting in the league purely on form, but I realised halfway through my rant that this kind of thing goes on all the time. He was simply the wrong age, wrong type of player on the wrong team at the wrong time. The confluence of these factors led to him losing a spot when he on most other teams would have kept it. However I think free agency would have been unlikely to help anymore than the current system. He's available now for nothing as he would be in free agency but I can't see too many teams wanting him. If he had of been in a team that was peaking rather than dropping and rebuilding he would be an AFL player now, but he wasn't so he's not. It sucks, but other than trying to institute laws to protect older players (longer lists maybe) I'm not sure much can be done. Free agency might help some but guys in their 30's will still be the ugly sisters in this scenario.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ummm....And what of Jason Torney?

Can go to any club who wants him.

[Mantis]

Can go to any club who wants him.

But it shouldn't be that way.

I hope this bites Adelaide on the arse. As much as I hate them I do respect them, but no more. It's ok to take a youth policy, but you can do it with a bit more tact.

[Sockeye Salmon]

But it shouldn't be that way.

I hope this bites Adelaide on the arse. As much as I hate them I do respect them, but no more. It's ok to take a youth policy, but you can do it with a bit more tact.

The AFL rules say you must reduce your playing list to 35 before the draft. Jason Torney was a victim of the Adelaide match committee thinking (rightly or wrongly) that he wasn't in their best 35 next year. No different to what we did with Tim Walsh or Cameron Faulkner.

Free agency wouldn't have helped Torney.

[The Underdog]

The AFL rules say you must reduce your playing list to 35 before the draft. Jason Torney was a victim of the Adelaide match committee thinking (rightly or wrongly) that he wasn't in their best 35 next year. No different to what we did with Tim Walsh or Cameron Faulkner.

Free agency wouldn't have helped Torney.

I'd dispute that Adelaide wouldn't think he'd be in their best 35. He would easily be in their best 25, however what they have decided is that he only has a max of 1 or 2 more years left and they want to get games into their next genetration to try and challenge again in a couple of years. In that sense it is different to Walsh or Faulkner. Not that I'd claim any moral highground for us, it's something we've done before too.

[Sockeye Salmon]

My point was free agency wouldn't have helped him.

[Topdog]

Well it seems like free agency wouldnt have changed Torney's situation at all.

[The Underdog]

My point was free agency wouldn't have helped him.

I agree, just nitpicking.

I think clubs have to watch how they go with policies such as this. I think mjp is right in the sense that some form of free agency is somewhat inevitable, even if it is fairly limited. Especially if older players are continually treated like this then Player's Association will really ramp up against the current system, which probably won't stand up against legal scrutiny.

[Dry Rot]

2 questions

1. If we got Welsh and he is in form, would our style/game plan etc change?

2. If say Wallace is knob or Carlton want Welsh, is there anyone else in the PSD we'd look at as a Plan B?

[LostDoggy]

We might look at Fergus Watts but that would be his third club and he still hasn't proven himself, kepler Bradley is worth a look but i wouldn't want him as he wouldn't want to play for us. I would not be suprised if we missed out on Welsh we would try to replenish our running stocks in the PSD. There are 6 players training with us though and we were reportedly very interested in one, his name escapses me now but i can remember he is from tasmania.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We might look at Fergus Watts but that would be his third club and he still hasn't proven himself, kepler Bradley is worth a look but i wouldn't want him as he wouldn't want to play for us. I would not be suprised if we missed out on Welsh we would try to replenish our running stocks in the PSD. There are 6 players training with us though and we were reportedly very interested in one, his name escapses me now but i can remember he is from tasmania.

Ryan Williams. 194 cm ex-basketballer.

[Mantis]

We might look at Fergus Watts but that would be his third club and he still hasn't proven himself, kepler Bradley is worth a look but i wouldn't want him as he wouldn't want to play for us.

From reports this bloke is a bit slow and probably wouldn't be suited to our fast paced style.

[Topdog]

Ryan Williams. 194 cm ex-basketballer.

Surprised the tanned one isn't interested.

[Dogs 24/7]

Surprised the tanned one isn't interested.

He might need a quicker solution. I heard on SEN that Richards is a chance to be selected by the Tigers.

[LostDoggy]

tanned one?

[Dogs 24/7]

tanned one?

I took it as Wallace.

[LostDoggy]

ohh thanx.