Jones Vs Stanley

[F'scary]

Geelong traded pick 21 to St Kilda for Stanley. We traded Jones to Carton for pick 46. Here's how the two players compare (click to enlarge table).

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The question I have is this:

Is Stanley worth that much more than Jones?

Your thoughts welcomed.

[jeemak]

I can only assume Stanley is seen as more versatile than Jones, and likely to improve his game in his two competencies in the coming years.

Jones has one competency, and a knock on his effort to achieve his potential in it. He also wanted to leave the club meaning our hands were tied.

To be fair though, I don't know enough about Stanley or seen enough of his game to make a judgement call. Would I have paid for pick 21 to get Stanley to our club? Probably not, my limited knowledge notwithstanding. Would I have been happy if we paid more than 46 to get Jones to our club having seen what I have seen of his game? No.

[F'scary]

Every StK supporter I have spoken to is laughing at Geelong. They all consider that Stanley is a complete spud that they originally acquired as a 3rd round draftee.

[bulldogtragic]

Circumstance, Jones was walking out no matter what. Our trade was very late on the last day from memory, if so, we tried to the end to get a better deal or keep him to no alas. If we thought he was going to get to Carlton in the PSD then we took the best offer. As for Geelong, they must see something that many punters don't.

[Mofra]

Ruck/forward is a very difficult position to play - those that do it even competently are often seen as 'spuds' even though they offer their team handy flexibility.

St Kilda did get slight overs for Stanley, Carlton paid unders for Jones.

[boydogs]

Ruck/forward is a very difficult position to play - those that do it even competently are often seen as 'spuds' even though they offer their team handy flexibility.

St Kilda did get slight overs for Stanley, Carlton paid unders for Jones.

Agree

[LostDoggy]

In the end he wanted to go.GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY!!! Had IMO a plethora amount of charmed chances to claim a permanent spot in the side and just could NOT, WOULDN'T or WAS UNABLE TO CLAIM THAT SPOT FOR HIMSELF.
IF AYCE DOSN'T DO SOMETHING THIS YEAR I FEAR HE WILL BE GONE TO!!!

[Greystache]

I don't think either is likely to make the grade.

Stanley is an athlete with minimal game sense, limited physicality, but has shown gradual improvement and seems to want to make it.

Jones has good hands and is quick, but is an appalling endurance athlete, has minimal game sense, and has shown minimal improvement or desire to do the hard things.

Stanley has more potential upside but Geelong paid well over for him.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think either is likely to make the grade.

Stanley is an athlete with minimal game sense, limited physicality, but has shown gradual improvement and seems to want to make it.

Jones has good hands and is quick, but is an appalling endurance athlete, has minimal game sense, and has shown minimal improvement or desire to do the hard things.

Stanley has more potential upside but Geelong paid well over for him.

I wonder who is driving the athlete first policy down the road. It seems like a gamble to me and I can't help think that the coach isn't pushing it. Fine line between genius and insanity I guess...

[westdog54]

In the end he wanted to go.GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY!!! Had IMO a plethora amount of charmed chances to claim a permanent spot in the side and just could NOT, WOULDN'T or WAS UNABLE TO CLAIM THAT SPOT FOR HIMSELF.
IF AYCE DOSN'T DO SOMETHING THIS YEAR I FEAR HE WILL BE GONE TO!!!

I fail to see any comparison to Stanley here.

[GVGjr]

I don't think either is likely to make the grade.

Stanley is an athlete with minimal game sense, limited physicality, but has shown gradual improvement and seems to want to make it.

Jones has good hands and is quick, but is an appalling endurance athlete, has minimal game sense, and has shown minimal improvement or desire to do the hard things.

Stanley has more potential upside but Geelong paid well over for him.

Stanley is a spare parts player that gives them some coverage in a few positions and yes they paid a high price for him. He is more a bit more flexible than Jones.

[Twodogs]

I wonder who is driving the athlete first policy down the road. It seems like a gamble to me and I can't help think that the coach isn't pushing it. Fine line between genius and insanity I guess...


They got lucky with Blcavs and probably thought why not chance their arm with Stanley. If they can turn Stanley into a player pick 21 will be a bargain.

[jeemak]

I don't think either is likely to make the grade.

Stanley is an athlete with minimal game sense, limited physicality, but has shown gradual improvement and seems to want to make it.

Jones has good hands and is quick, but is an appalling endurance athlete, has minimal game sense, and has shown minimal improvement or desire to do the hard things.

Stanley has more potential upside but Geelong paid well over for him.

I guess it comes down to what they thought they needed at the time versus what they had to spend. If there was a whisper or something stronger that he wouldn't be available for a later pick that Geelong might have been able to secure then I suppose it's irrelevant whether any of us think they paid overs.

Only time will tell if they will benefit more from an untried player at pick 21 over time - which I suspect they would - or whether securing a thereabouts ruck/forward will help them stay in the top half of the ladder. My view on Geelong is they're sliding, and picks like this will only get in the way of them rebuilding properly (see North Melbourne over the past few years post their "kind of" bottoming out).

BT is right in a sense, Geelong it seems are walking on the fall side of a fine line with this one and I don't doubt are hoping he doesn't turn out to be a Peter Street pick for them (understand the only thing these two have in common is their trade price, just thought I'd bring it up to share some trade pain!)
.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting comparison.

I simply haven't seen enough of Stanley in recent times to cast any real judgment on his trade value, but on the face of it, it appears that Geelong have paid overs.

What Stanley has going for him though is his versatility, and that whilst Geelong have some similar players on the list, most have concerns of some kind. McIntosh is getting old, Vardy and Simpson have had injury troubles, Clark may or may not work out. Stanley has (to date) not got any injury concerns and seems to be on an upward trend still. He can play ruck, forward and all over the park really, with his running ability and was good for a goal a game last year.

Jones might yet get there and become a solid forward, but looking at who projects as having a better career, I'd give the chocolates to Stanley at the moment.

[G-Mo77]

Geelong paid overs for Stanley, Carlton got unders for Jones. Their value lies somewhere in between what each club gave up. Both are talented and young enough to turn around their careers so I think both clubs will be pleased to have them on their list.

[bornadog]

Who would you prefer Stanley or Hamling.

[G-Mo77]

Who would you prefer Stanley or Hamling.

I don't think I've seen Hamling play at all I may have seen him in the VFL, I've seen highlights, from that and the fact that he was cut to make way for a guy like Stanley doesn't fill me with great confidence.

Stanley I've seen his best and worst and would take him if there was a choice between the two. FWIW I'd take Jones over Hamling as well to keep the conversations going.

[GVGjr]

Geelong paid overs for Stanley, Carlton got unders for Jones. Their value lies somewhere in between what each club gave up. Both are talented and young enough to turn around their careers so I think both clubs will be pleased to have them on their list.

It's very difficult to get the perfect trade value for both parties with the current system but essentially the Cats paid overs because Stanley had a contract and Carlton got Jones for a bargain because he was out of contract. If Jones still had a year to go on a contract and Carlton still really wanted him then I'd be confident that pick 28 would have been ours. With no contract, had we been pedantic Carlton would have got him in the PSD so their 3rd round pick in the end was reasonable.

If that deal had have been completed then the real comparison would have been Crameri vs Jones and we would have been very pleased with both

[Go_Dogs]

If that deal had have been completed then the real comparison would have been Crameri vs Jones and we would have been very pleased with both

It's a good example, given both players weren't contracted.

In that scenario, there's no way that Jones had the same currency as Crameri did, hence the price for Crameri being a second round, and Jones a third, seems reasonable. The Stanley example demonstrates that you still need to pay overs to acquire a contracted player, because despite his versatility, there's no way he's in front of Crameri in terms of market value.

[G-Mo77]

It's very difficult to get the perfect trade value for both parties with the current system but essentially the Cats paid overs because Stanley had a contract and Carlton got Jones for a bargain because he was out of contract. If Jones still had a year to go on a contract and Carlton still really wanted him then I'd be confident that pick 28 would have been ours. With no contract, had we been pedantic Carlton would have got him in the PSD so their 3rd round pick in the end was reasonable.

If that deal had have been completed then the real comparison would have been Crameri vs Jones and we would have been very pleased with both

Completely agree. I should have been more clear with my post, true market value they'd both be around late 20's to mid 30's IMO. We were over a barrel with Jones and had to take what ever they offered, Saints did not need to trade at all and got the best offer they could.

[boydogs]

Who would you prefer Stanley or Hamling.

Stanley right now, but Hamling offers hope as he was very slight when drafted and has taken a bit to bulk up. He didn't play at an elite level as a junior in remote WA so he's the definition of a project player. He was drafted earlier than Stanley was so he showed he had the talent

[GVGjr]

Stanley right now, but Hamling offers hope as he was very slight when drafted and has taken a bit to bulk up. He didn't play at an elite level as a junior in remote WA so he's the definition of a project player. He was drafted earlier than Stanley was so he showed he had the talent

Hamling played for WA and was invited to the draft combine which is a fairly traditional pathway. While he was originally from a remote area of WA I don't think he was a speculative selection but one that was probably never likely to play in the seniors in first 2 years.

[boydogs]

Hamling played for WA and was invited to the draft combine which is a fairly traditional pathway. While he was originally from a remote area of WA I don't think he was a speculative selection but one that was probably never likely to play in the seniors in first 2 years.

IIRC the improvement he showed in his final junior year when exposed to an elite level was why he went so early

[F'scary]

Who would you prefer Stanley or Hamling.

The noble Dane, Hamlet. Stanley is more of an on-field Falstaff type.

[1eyedog]

Interesting that Geelong offload Hamling and pick up Stanley if you ask me. Hamling's a more natural footballer and a cleaner mark. Geelong also have a few running 2nd rucks as well.

[LostDoggy]

I fail to see any comparison to Stanley here.

You could say exactly the same thing for both players,therefore the comparison between Jones and Stanley is that they ae both mediocre players looking for fresh starts at other clubs.(Except for the Ayce line.:D:D:D)

[bornadog]

Interesting that Geelong offload Hamling and pick up Stanley if you ask me. Hamling's a more natural footballer and a cleaner mark. Geelong also have a few running 2nd rucks as well.

My exact point, which means Geelong didn't rate Hamling.

[GVGjr]

My exact point, which means Geelong didn't rate Hamling.

For a team topping up to stay a genuine contender it was probably the right move for Geelong. Our situation is a lot different and we are obviously taking a longer view. Hamlings best football is still in front of him.

[westdog54]

You could say exactly the same thing for both players,therefore the comparison between Jones and Stanley is that they ae both mediocre players looking for fresh starts at other clubs.(Except for the Ayce line.:D:D:D)

You've missed my point.

All you did in your post was rubbish Jones. You didn't mention Stanley at all.

[Testekill]

Interesting that Geelong offload Hamling and pick up Stanley if you ask me. Hamling's a more natural footballer and a cleaner mark. Geelong also have a few running 2nd rucks as well.

Geelong wanted to play silly buggers by delisting and rookieing Hamling. Hamling didn't want to be a rookie because it's literally luck of the draw if someone gets a LTI and there is much more security with a guaranteed contract as opposed to being rookied.

[F'scary]

Geelong wanted to play silly buggers by delisting and rookieing Hamling. Hamling didn't want to be a rookie because it's literally luck of the draw if someone gets a LTI and there is much more security with a guaranteed contract as opposed to being rookied.

Interesting, can I ask about the source of this info - or is it more of a reasonable hunch? I can see that they might have tried to go down this path. It would not be the first time a club has tried this with a player that has some potential but is not quite there or behind a few others at that point in time.

[Testekill]

Interesting, can I ask about the source of this info - or is it more of a reasonable hunch? I can see that they might have tried to go down this path. It would not be the first time a club has tried this with a player that has some potential but is not quite there or behind a few others at that point in time.

It comes from the types who "have contacts at the club" so I can't really verify how true it is but I heard from more than a few people when we recruited him that Geelong were impressed by his improvement and wanted him to stick around as a rookie.

So it could be bull since anyone can say that they have contacts but I've heard it from more than a few people which gives it at least a little bit of weight.

[Remi Moses]

It's common practice to promise a rookie pick.
Wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility.

[F'scary]

It comes from the types who "have contacts at the club" so I can't really verify how true it is but I heard from more than a few people when we recruited him that Geelong were impressed by his improvement and wanted him to stick around as a rookie.

So it could be bull since anyone can say that they have contacts but I've heard it from more than a few people which gives it at least a little bit of weight.

It rings true with me.

[jeemak]

These sorts of comparisons tend to fade out as the 1st of March comes along. Then after a couple of misleading preseason efforts they grow some more legs. Give it eight to twelve weeks into the season and you might have a genuine comparison on your hands.