Our Biggest Turncoat?

[ReLoad]

We sadly have a lot of options for this award, who is your choice and why?

[F'scary]

What is worse, a player who deserts for money or a player who deserts because of a hissy fit?

[BulldogBelle]

I nominate one Nathan brown.

Left for cash and possibly some under the table property deal, and the obvious to play finals at Richmond.:rolleyes:

Looked brilliant then breaks leg and that was that. Aint carma a bitch.

l also remember him saying in either print or radio that maybe he should not have left us when we were doing well in the finals a few years later.

[Twodogs]

Garry Dempsey. Left to go to North Melbourne.

[LostDoggy]

Terry Wallet was the worst, was lauded at our club and left for the almighty dollar. Then had the audacity to take Brown and McMahon along with him. (obviously the McMahon deal has worked out in our favour essentially nabbing us Macrae now).

[chef]

Terry Wallet was the worst, was lauded at our club and left for the almighty dollar. Then had the audacity to take Brown and McMahon along with him. (obviously the McMahon deal has worked out in our favour essentially nabbing us Macrae now).

Wasn't Brown already at Richmond?

[chef]

Griffen for me, taking over from Brown who I hate with a passion.

Was captain of our club for less than 6 months before he started flirting with other clubs looking for a way out because he couldn't handle it.I know other captains have quit, but they've usually gone to chase a premiership which is understandable. Griffen quit for the Giants for the money.

[Twodogs]

Wasn't Brown already at Richmond?


Yep. Brown went the year before.

[Webby]

Garry Dempsey. Left to go to North Melbourne.

Tiny bit harsh on Dempsey. As with Quinlan, Templeton and Dunstan, the clearance fees the club made from those departures virtually kept us afloat during those very barren years. There were player strikes, boardroom splits etc when Dempsey left. We really were a rabble at that point.

Unlike Dunstan and KT, Dempsey's biggest crime was that he actually went on to play good footy at his new club.

This might ruffle a few feathers, but, for me, one of the daftest decisions ever made was EJ seeking (and getting) a clearance to North in 1973 (or so). I think everyone dodged a near tragedy when Ted broke down with calf trouble in the pre-season. Talk about nearly cheapening a brilliant legacy for the sake of 12-15 games of footy.

Although, to be fair to Ted, he knocked back massive money from SA and WA clubs in the early 60's to stick with us.

[Remi Moses]

Dempsey for me . Followed by captain buldging disc then Judas Brown ( brown got a few pardon the pun Browny points, by defending calls the club was irrelevant last season) Jimmy Edmond hurt as well. Sadly the club has a history of players walking for various reasons .

[Remi Moses]

Tiny bit harsh on Dempsey. As with Quinlan, Templeton and Dunstan, the clearance fees the club made from those departures virtually kept us afloat during those very barren years. There were player strikes, boardroom splits etc when Dempsey left. We really were a rabble at that point.

Unlike Dunstan and KT, Dempsey's biggest crime was that he actually went on to play good footy at his new club.

This might ruffle a few feathers, but, for me, one of the daftest decisions ever made was EJ seeking (and getting) a clearance to North in 1973 (or so). I think everyone dodged a near tragedy when Ted broke down with calf trouble in the pre-season. Talk about nearly cheapening a brilliant legacy for the sake of 12-15 games of footy.

Although, to be fair to Ted, he knocked back massive money from SA and WA clubs in the early 60's to stick with us.

What bothered me about Dempsey was not only was our only star he left the club to play in a" premiership team" . Thankfully that didn't happen .

[boydogs]

Griffen as captain followed by Brown leaving to play finals

[bornadog]

I nominate one Nathan brown.

Left for cash and possibly some under the table property deal, and the obvious to play finals at Richmond.:rolleyes:

Looked brilliant then breaks leg and that was that. Aint carma a bitch.

l also remember him saying in either print or radio that maybe he should not have left us when we were doing well in the finals a few years later.

This for me too.

[bornadog]

Dempsey for me . Followed by captain buldging disc then Judas Brown ( brown got a few pardon the pun Browny points, by defending calls the club was irrelevant last season) Jimmy Edmond hurt as well. Sadly the club has a history of players walking for various reasons .

Dempsey and Edmond were also captains.

[Jeanette54]

Tiny bit harsh on Dempsey. As with Quinlan, Templeton and Dunstan, the clearance fees the club made from those departures virtually kept us afloat during those very barren years. There were player strikes, boardroom splits etc when Dempsey left. We really were a rabble at that point.

Unlike Dunstan and KT, Dempsey's biggest crime was that he actually went on to play good footy at his new club.

This might ruffle a few feathers, but, for me, one of the daftest decisions ever made was EJ seeking (and getting) a clearance to North in 1973 (or so). I think everyone dodged a near tragedy when Ted broke down with calf trouble in the pre-season. Talk about nearly cheapening a brilliant legacy for the sake of 12-15 games of footy.

Although, to be fair to Ted, he knocked back massive money from SA and WA clubs in the early 60's to stick with us.

I well remember Ted's departure to North, but if anybody deserted anybody it was the club who deserted Ted. He had no intention of retiring when he did in May 1970, and could have at least played out that season on merit. Could probably have also played on into 1971, he didn't need thirty kicks to win a game, Ted was the sort of player who was pivotal to the side, and was always there at the crucial points. The nearest I can think of as a description is, if Dermott Brereton and Barry Cable had a love child (brawn and class) it would have been Ted.

[bulldogsfight]

WhAt about father sons who did not want to play with Footscray
Moncrieff Wearmouth Butch Edwards

[Jeanette54]

Dempsey and Edmond were also captains.

My memory is that Jimmy didn't have much choice, reportedly following some sort of team incident while travelling. When you compare it with some of the stuff that Collingwood has been prepared to stomach over the years I think it was pretty minor stuff.

I could be wrong however, old memories being what they are. :confused:

[bulldogsfight]

Or they o from our zone like Tom alvin

[Avoid the rush]

I knew when Shane Allen left for the big bucks he would play and star in at least TWO Grand Final Victories!!! W H A T ????

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone who was a serving captain.

[bornadog]

Anyone who was a serving captain.

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

[bulldogtragic]

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

That's it as I know. A star leaving for money is a fact of life. A club captain, a so called spiritual leader of men to battle for our pride and people, leaving for any reason is a traitor to legacy we are all part of. If we'd not pissed the Brown compo away buying magic beans I'm sure we'd feel much better about it/him. So not being old enough to know the others, Griffen takes this mantle so easy for me.

[KT31]

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

Templeton was captain when he left.

[F'scary]

Templeton was captain when he left.

True but he just shouldn't be mentioned in a thread like this. A thread for the Grifters of the world.

Templeton knew his knee was no good. The Dees were offering a massive transfer fee for him. Apparently, KT announced to the players and officials in the dressing room in tears that he was crippled and so he was doing the best he could for the club by taking the deal. He had knocked back plenty before that fateful night match at VFL park. When he went to Melbourne, it was immediately obvious to all that he was playing on one leg and his career then petered out over a couple of seasons.

[AndrewP6]

I was shattered as a kid when Jim left. But far and away the worst was Griffen. A decision perhaps worsened but the fact that people (me included) thought he was captain material, Bulldog through and through. How wrong we were.

[LostDoggy]

Griffen. Not just for being captain, not just for going to the Giants, but the whole way he's gone about it. Middle of trade week bombshell, goes pig shooting, afraid to show his face ever since. So many fantastic games and stellar efforts flying the red, white and blue, only makes it hurt all the more, kinda how Obi Wan reacts at the end of Revenge Of The Sith. :)

[SonofScray]

Griffen. The length of the Flemington straight followed by Nathan Brown.

Time heals all wounds, but Brown really stung at the time. He gave our supporters grief and revelled in beating the Club that gave him a chance. Real smart alec stuff. Still, I'd happily welcome him through the doors at WO and acknowledge his talent on display in the Tri Colours.

The ex skipper though.... Probably should erase him from Club history. Dead to me.

[LostDoggy]

Griffen. The length of the Flemington straight followed by Nathan Brown.

Time heals all wounds, but Brown really stung at the time. He gave our supporters grief and revelled in beating the Club that gave him a chance. Real smart alec stuff. Still, I'd happily welcome him through the doors at WO and acknowledge his talent on display in the Tri Colours.

The ex skipper though.... Probably should erase him from Club history. Dead to me.
Agree.
Griffen easily.
Make no mistake he SHITTED in everyones faces @ the club.
Apart from everytime we play GWS till he retires he never existed.
Like SOS he is dead to me.

[Twodogs]

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

I made a list of the captains who had walked out or left the club. I think it was getting on for 8 or 9 players. David Thorpe, Laurie Sandllands, the guys you mention, Doug Hawkins, KT and a couple of others. That's 7 I can think of.

[bulldogtragic]

I made a list of the captains who had walked out or left the club. I think it was getting on for 8 or 9 players. David Thorpe, Laurie Sandllands, the guys you mention, Doug Hawkins, KT and a couple of others. That's 7 I can think of.

Doug wasn't holding the office though, and it was a simple superannuation season for him.

[Webby]

I made a list of the captains who had walked out or left the club. I think it was getting on for 8 or 9 players. David Thorpe, Laurie Sandllands, the guys you mention, Doug Hawkins, KT and a couple of others. That's 7 I can think of.

Yep, Sandilands walked after cracking shits with administration (lifelong Dogs fan and still Dogs man today). Thorpe was lured to Richmond after Bones McGhie paved the way (although we sacked Bones and he played in a flag in '73). I think Thorpe might've seen a clear premiership path come 1974. KT left, but on our terms - which proved to be very advantageous. However Douggie was sacked and was then approached by Bernie Quinlan at Fitzroy. His reasoning was that he was embarking on a fledgling media career and just needed to hang on for another year. As it was, channel 9 billed him as a disposable clown and it didn't last long, anyway.

As it was, Sandilands was a Footscray mad kid, Dempsey also (Footscray Primary School), and Doug was a Braybrook boy-cum-uber-icon. Not sure about Thorpey. So, yes, point stands. We lost some very senior Doggies men over the years.

Although I must say, the KT, Dempsey, Griffen and Hawkins moves were in the best interests of the club, (Dempsey debatable) ,whilst Sandilands didn't have much left in him.

But, yes, point stands. You just don't see club captains move from other clubs the way you see them move from us. Somehow others seem to dissuade even the washed up, disgruntled ones from leaving. I guess it's nice to have resources...! However, to temper things a bit, the last one I remember was Leigh Colbert in 2000. He moved from Geelong to North for a young key forward by the name of Cam Mooney.... At that point it had been North 4 vs Geelong 0 for flags over the past 25 years. Since that move, the Cats are up 3-0..

So long as the deal is right, losing your captain can be a blessing.. Albeit not a good look!

[Twodogs]

Plus there was Ian Dunstan who had pretty much been the captain for the two years before he left to go to North with Templeton missing so many games with his injury and recovery and subsequent recovery from the recovery. Mocha must have been captain for 75% of the games in that 2 year time.

[1eyedog]

Yep, Sandilands walked after cracking shits with administration (lifelong Dogs fan and still Dogs man today). Thorpe was lured to Richmond after Bones McGhie paved the way (although we sacked Bones and he played in a flag in '73). I think Thorpe might've seen a clear premiership path come 1974. KT left, but on our terms - which proved to be very advantageous. However Douggie was sacked and was then approached by Bernie Quinlan at Fitzroy. His reasoning was that he was embarking on a fledgling media career and just needed to hang on for another year. As it was, channel 9 billed him as a disposable clown and it didn't last long, anyway.

As it was, Sandilands was a Footscray mad kid, Dempsey also (Footscray Primary School), and Doug was a Braybrook boy-cum-uber-icon. Not sure about Thorpey. So, yes, point stands. We lost some very senior Doggies men over the years.

Although I must say, the KT, Dempsey, Griffen and Hawkins moves were in the best interests of the club, (Dempsey debatable) ,whilst Sandilands didn't have much left in him.

But, yes, point stands. You just don't see club captains move from other clubs the way you see them move from us. Somehow others seem to dissuade even the washed up, disgruntled ones from leaving. I guess it's nice to have resources...! However, to temper things a bit, the last one I remember was Leigh Colbert in 2000. He moved from Geelong to North for a young key forward by the name of Cam Mooney.... At that point it had been North 4 vs Geelong 0 for flags over the past 25 years. Since that move, the Cats are up 3-0..

So long as the deal is right, losing your captain can be a blessing.. Albeit not a good look!

Cousins and Judd both left West Coast (not sure if they were actually captains at the time of their departure), of course the Judd move while painful at the time was certainly in the best interest of the club.

[Webby]

My memory is that Jimmy didn't have much choice, reportedly following some sort of team incident while travelling. When you compare it with some of the stuff that Collingwood has been prepared to stomach over the years I think it was pretty minor stuff.

I could be wrong however, old memories being what they are. :confused:

Yeah, a tiny bit harsh on Jock. Although absolutely FILTHY with him at the time... And I mean FILTHY! For some context, news of his defection leaked during the 1985 finals series and I believe resulted in a very insipid first up performance against Hawthorn!

However, with the passing of time, I can kind of understand it. You see, that particular period saw the introduction of a salary cap. We had stars such as Beasley, Hawkins, Royal and Hardie who were hardly demanding pay cuts! Meanwhile Sydney had been bought by one Geoffrey Eddelsten (? Spelling.. Actually, who cares!? I'll go with Joffrey..). I believe Jock was offered a lot more to go to Sydney and asked for a lot less to stay. The club said no and he went. Funnily enough, the Swans flicked him to the Bears when the cap really kicked in - which was solid evidence that they had probably overpaid and that our management were probably on the money - whilst he only played 25 odd games post leaving.

As a cold business decision, it was probably kosher. However for what it cost us from a fabric viewpoint, it was tragic. The club probably could've met him somewhere in the middle (even $5-10k might've done it) and retained him. Because Jock really was a leader of men... A category I do not place Griffen in!

[Webby]

Cousins and Judd both left West Coast (not sure if they were actually captains at the time of their departure), of course the Judd move while painful at the time was certainly in the best interest of the club.

Not a bad point to frame it. Probably the richest club in the league. They got a good deal for Judd and Cousins was effectively a reject when he left.

So, to be fair: Edmond did nothing post FFC. KT did very little. Sandilands did nothing. Dunstan did nothing (if we count him - as he did toss the coin 20+ times), Hawkins did next to nothing. They're in the "Cousins Departure Lounge" not the Judd Lounge!

Also, was Bruce Duperouzel not club captain of Sht Kilda when we poached him in '83? Perhaps not? However, it's not a complex formula - poaching senior players from the less affluent clubs! Guess what category we fit in!?!

This is the reason that, although never a premiership player, Chris Grant should hold his head up just as high (if not higher) than any premiership player in the country.

[The Doctor]

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

Sandilands?

[Twodogs]

Yeah, a tiny bit harsh on Jock. Although absolutely FILTHY with him at the time... And I mean FILTHY! For some context, news of his defection leaked during the 1985 finals series and I believe resulted in a very insipid first up performance against Hawthorn!

However, with the passing of time, I can kind of understand it. You see, that particular period saw the introduction of a salary cap. We had stars such as Beasley, Hawkins, Royal and Hardie who were hardly demanding pay cuts! Meanwhile Sydney had been bought by one Geoffrey Eddelsten (? Spelling.. Actually, who cares!? I'll go with Joffrey..). I believe Jock was offered a lot more to go to Sydney and asked for a lot less to stay. The club said no and he went. Funnily enough, the Swans flicked him to the Bears when the cap really kicked in - which was solid evidence that they had probably overpaid and that our management were probably on the money - whilst he only played 25 odd games post leaving.

As a cold business decision, it was probably kosher. However for what it cost us from a fabric viewpoint, it was tragic. The club probably could've met him somewhere in the middle (even $5-10k might've done it) and retained him. Because Jock really was a leader of men... A category I do not place Griffen in!


Jock was a true captain always telling younger player where to stand or run and pulling older players into line when needed. He was even articulate enough to deliver a blistering rev up at the end of a quarter break. He could turn a game with a big Mark and goal or picking it up on the bounce and snapping a goal from any where on the forward line.

He was hardly ever beauen for a contested Mark and kicked big bags on good defenders. He tore Mark Austin's old man apart one day in 1983 with 6 goals and Curley Austin was a multiple premiership player., we'd won the wooden spoon the year before and Carlton had won their third flag in four years. But Jock led us to a memorable win early in the year.

[Testekill]

True but he just shouldn't be mentioned in a thread like this. A thread for the Grifters of the world.

Templeton knew his knee was no good. The Dees were offering a massive transfer fee for him. Apparently, KT announced to the players and officials in the dressing room in tears that he was crippled and so he was doing the best he could for the club by taking the deal. He had knocked back plenty before that fateful night match at VFL park. When he went to Melbourne, it was immediately obvious to all that he was playing on one leg and his career then petered out over a couple of seasons.

Yeah, I can't muster up any negative emotions about Templeton leaving. If he knew his body was breaking down then he did the right thing by getting us some needed money while setting himself up for a nice final payday.

[LostDoggy]

Does Malthouse deserve a mention for deserting the club in 89? I'd have him way before others in the list but thought maybe should get his name in there somewhere.

[Remi Moses]

Jock was a true captain always telling younger player where to stand or run and pulling older players into line when needed. He was even articulate enough to deliver a blistering rev up at the end of a quarter break. He could turn a game with a big Mark and goal or picking it up on the bounce and snapping a goal from any where on the forward line.

He was hardly ever beauen for a contested Mark and kicked big bags on good defenders. He tore Mark Austin's old man apart one day in 1983 with 6 goals and Curley Austin was a multiple premiership player., we'd won the wooden spoon the year before and Carlton had won their third flag in four years. But Jock led us to a memorable win early in the year.

Two dogs I don't think Mark and curly are related.

[Maddog37]

No mention of Brian Lake?

[Twodogs]

Two dogs I don't think Mark and curly are related.


You're right mate. Young curly is from South Australia.

[chef]

No mention of Brian Lake?

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

[SonofScray]

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

Thats how I see it. Good move for both parties, no hard feelings. Lake is a Life Member of the Club and gave his best, which was elite for the FB position.

[LostDoggy]

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

Agree 95%. The 5% uncertainty was the Norm Smith. That really bloody hurt.

[strebla]

Jezza still hurts Carlton fans and I feel their pain.(but i did love it).Its definately Griff for me two of my faves now playing for the Syd Jaffa's I may have a new most hated club!!!!.

[F'scary]

Thats how I see it. Good move for both parties, no hard feelings. Lake is a Life Member of the Club and gave his best, which was elite for the FB position.

sorry but I disagree on him not being a turncoat although I acknowledge that the circumstances were primarily created by the free agency rule which is a heavy mitigating factor for Lake's actions - greatly reducing his culpability. Looking back on it, was this the first crack in McCartney's stewardship? Lake was disgruntled with the coach's use of him and the pressure the club was putting him under to play when he felt he was injured.

[bulldogtragic]

sorry but I disagree on him not being a turncoat although I acknowledge that the circumstances were primarily created by the free agency rule which is a heavy mitigating factor for Lake's actions - greatly reducing his culpability. Looking back on it, was this the first crack in McCartney's stewardship? Lake was disgruntled with the coach's use of him and the pressure the club was putting him under to play when he felt he was injured.

Free agency? Free agency? He was under contract my friend and don't you ****** forget it. Canary yellow in deed... :) (In my best 12th man BL voice)

He was told by the former coach he wasn't going to be played where he had all his AFL career. Then the relationship seemed allowed almost to deteriorate and then a trade of unders offered and accepted to. Chef explained why he shouldn't be in this thread, facts to me says he is not a definitional turncoat.

[F'scary]

Free agency? Free agency? He was under contract my friend and don't you ****** forget it. Canary yellow in deed... :) (In my best 12th man BL voice)

He was told by the former coach he wasn't going to be played where he had all his AFL career. Then the relationship seemed allowed almost to deteriorate and then a trade of unders offered and accepted to. Chef explained why he shouldn't be in this thread, facts to me says he is not a definitional turncoat.

I stand corrected on the free agency point - memory failure - but isn't anyone who wants to leave for greener pastures a turncoat? It is just a question of degrees of culpability.

[bulldogtragic]

I stand corrected on the free agency point - memory failure - but isn't anyone who wants to leave for greener pastures a turncoat? It is just a question of degrees of culpability.

That's a great philosophical question through the ages, is ones man freedom fighter not another mans terrorist. So along that point yes, it's all perspective. My view is if we effectively force them out then for me it's a no to the thread question. FA blurs that line as did we force Higgins out, or take good compo as incentive no to try harder?

Griffen.

[ratsmac]

Free agency is forcing clubs to trade players a year before they come out of contract so that the club get to decide what deal accept as a fair price rather than waiting for compensation from the AFL. Therefore Lake did leave due to free agency. Good luck to him I say. We got his best years. He would have to be one of the luckiest blokes getting around though. Hawthorn wanted him while they were on the cusp of back to backs. Cooney has left on pretty much identical circumstances, but sadly for Coons I can't see the drug cheats getting anywhere near a flag this year the way things are looking.

Griff is our biggest turn coat in my opinion with Nathan Brown a close second. I was too young to feel any bitterness toward KT or Edmond. Obviously Templeton was done and as it turned out so was Jimmy. I was upset watching the Hawk play for the Roy's but he was washed up and so were Fitzroy. Callan Ward is a player who I think we all hate watching play for the plastic team but can understand the offer was just too good to knock back. Chris Grant is the only person who would of knocked back such a deal. Ward gets off the hook on a technicality.

[Mofra]

Jones & Brown were offered lower contracts by the Bulldogs when negotiating with them to stay - I can understand both of them wanting out, especially considering Brown had significantly lifted his output in his last year with us.

Griff is different by far - it wasn't money, and he still wanted out after the coach was gone.

[G-Mo77]

Griffin. What a pile of garbage! The only persons existence at the club whipped from my memory quicker is Aker. I wish nothing but misery for him at his new "club"

[westdog54]

Griffen has easily hurt the most.

Even with Nathan Brown, we could pretty much see it coming all year that he wasn't going to remain, that the almighty dollar would see him leave the club.

Griffen's departure came from absolutely nowhere and came with a background of openly deceiving the powers that be and misleading teh club and its supporers.

We may have made lemonade out of the lemons but it doesn't mitigate Ryan's actions. Never will.

[Sedat]

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.
And Griffen didn't? I don't think we've had a better finals player in our club's history.

[ReLoad]

I wonder how other clubs compare in their lists of traitors, ours seems to be substantial.

I'm going to float another one which is quite fresh:

Adam Cooney

He is a dill for leaving and here is why:
Essendon, I mean really? all he is going to get is embroiled in their still ongoing nonsense. They are not going to be anywhere near a grand final, let alone a prelim. At least do a Lake and go to a team with a real shot.

He is now officially "Tainted" as far as we are concerned having left us for no real reason.

Its no problems for us as a team, his body is shot and his footy best is behind him, but we have stuck fat with Adam over the last 5 years and left no stone unturned in helping him medically and also honoring his huge contract.

I'm really disappointed in Adam, i thought better of him i really did.

Now he's just another schmuck at the drug cheats.

[Greystache]

And Griffen didn't? I don't think we've had a better finals player in our club's history.

Agree, and sadly Lake is probably his closest rival. A lot of the legends of our club were anything but legendary when finals came around, Gryphin was an exception in that his best games were often finals.

[AndrewP6]

I wonder how other clubs compare in their lists of traitors, ours seems to be substantial.

I'm going to float another one which is quite fresh:

Adam Cooney

He is a dill for leaving and here is why:
Essendon, I mean really? all he is going to get is embroiled in their still ongoing nonsense. They are not going to be anywhere near a grand final, let alone a prelim. At least do a Lake and go to a team with a real shot.

He is now officially "Tainted" as far as we are concerned having left us for no real reason.

Its no problems for us as a team, his body is shot and his footy best is behind him, but we have stuck fat with Adam over the last 5 years and left no stone unturned in helping him medically and also honoring his huge contract.

I'm really disappointed in Adam, i thought better of him i really did.

Now he's just another schmuck at the drug cheats.

Unfair to Coons. He was told he was going to get less playing time, he disagreed and wanted to play. They didn't stick by him in the end. No ill towards him, and he's not in the same category as Griffen.

[Greystache]

One that really annoyed me was Luke Penny. He's was a terrible footballer, but we wasted a first round pick on him, and the moment he thought he had some currency in the market he jumped as quick as he could. It was never going to hurt us because he couldn't play at all, but it screamed douchebag.

[Greystache]

Unfair to Coons. He was told he was going to get less playing time, he disagreed and wanted to play. They didn't stick by him in the end. No ill towards him, and he's not in the same category as Griffen.

That's the edited version he put out in the media, along with Essendon's spongy floor, and his desperation to play under Hird. He was actually told that if he didn't improve his defensive efforts and start playing to the team structure he would get less game time. He refused to accept he should have to do either of those things and wanted out. His leaving the club was his own doing and a completely selfish act, nothing more and nothing less. The fact the culture at the club dramatically improved from his leaving was just the silver lining for us.

[AndrewP6]

That's the edited version he put out in the media, along with Essendon's spongy floor, and his desperation to play under Hird. He was actually told that if he didn't improve his defensive efforts and start playing to the team structure he would get less game time. He refused to accept he should have to do either of those things and wanted out. His leaving the club was his own doing and a completely selfish act, nothing more and nothing less. The fact the culture at the club dramatically improved from his leaving was just the silver lining for us.
Interesting. Was he told that by the previous coach? Shame he didn't stick around for the new guy. It's more than coincidence a large number of players simply wanted to leave. Regardless, he has not got a lot of time left, I just don't hold the anger for him that I do for Griffen.

[Greystache]

Interesting. Was he told that by the previous coach? Shame he didn't stick around for the new guy. It's more than coincidence a large number of players simply wanted to leave. Regardless, he has not got a lot of time left, I just don't hold the anger for him that I do for Griffen.

Yes. He was told he continually lets his team mates down with his refusal to defend, be accountable, or doing pretty much any of the teams things, and unless it changes as of the first day of preseason he wouldn't be getting game time. Obviously Cooney found the prospect of playing team football a turn off and decided to go elsewhere. Pretty pathetic give how little his produced over recent years compared to the contracts he's been given.

He's 9 months older than Griffen and both have injury clouds hanging over them.

[1eyedog]

Chris Dawes

Fancy choosing Melbourne over us - what a loooooser.

[Twodogs]

Chris Dawes

Fancy choosing Melbourne over us - what a loooooser.

I'm glad he did though.

[LostDoggy]

Griffin by a long way. He can go and get...

But Ward still hurts me the most. The money he got offered was obviously massive overs at the time and I can't really blame him for taking it. Especially when we were so reluctant to get a deal done much earlier for whatever reason...

Proven performer in finals and about to step into the prime of his career. In the age bracket we severley lack quality. Possible future captain.

Rubbing salt into the wound was Melbourne getting 2 first rounders for Scully.

[bornadog]

Griffin by a long way. He can go and get...

But Ward still hurts me the most. The money he got offered was obviously massive overs at the time and I can't really blame him for taking it. Especially when we were so reluctant to get a deal done much earlier for whatever reason...

Proven performer in finals and about to step into the prime of his career. In the age bracket we severley lack quality. Possible future captain.

Rubbing salt into the wound was Melbourne getting 2 first rounders for Scully.

I am more unhappy about Ward than Griffen. Ward left at such a young age and would be perfect in the team now that we have lost so much experience. Imagine Ward, Libba and Macrae in the midfield.

[chef]

And Griffen didn't? I don't think we've had a better finals player in our club's history.

Yeah, I know. I guess I meant leaving us after giving us his best footy.

Griffen snd Brown were in their prime with plenty of great footy years in front of them.

[Twodogs]

I am more unhappy about Ward than Griffen. Ward left at such a young age and would be perfect in the team now that we have lost so much experience. Imagine Ward, Libba and Macrae in the midfield.


Didn't we get Macrae with the Ward compo pick? Still cut and paste Jacson with Bonti and that starting four l(whoever the ruckman is) ooks just as awesome.

[1eyedog]

I'm glad he did though.

Me too :D. I remember the huge sigh of relief when it was confirmed, although truth be told I was warming to Gumbleton :eek:

[1eyedog]

Griffin by a long way. He can go and get...

But Ward still hurts me the most. The money he got offered was obviously massive overs at the time and I can't really blame him for taking it. Especially when we were so reluctant to get a deal done much earlier for whatever reason...

Proven performer in finals and about to step into the prime of his career. In the age bracket we severley lack quality. Possible future captain.

Rubbing salt into the wound was Melbourne getting 2 first rounders for Scully.

Didn't we put forward an offer and then raise it when we found out what he would be on? I think he mentioned something about this. He said something along the lines of if that is what they think I'm worth why didn't they just put that on the line in the first place? I wonder how much responsibility our footy department had in Ward leaving. Would our final offer, if offered first, have kept him? He gave the impression it might have - although that may have been spin to help him shift the reasons why he was leaving.

[Mofra]

Didn't we put forward an offer and then raise it when we found out what he would be on? I think he mentioned something about this. He said something along the lines of if that is what they think I'm worth why didn't they just put that on the line in the first place? I wonder how much responsibility our footy department had in Ward leaving. Would our final offer, if offered first, have kept him? He gave the impression it might have - although that may have been spin to help him shift the reasons why he was leaving.
We could have signed him up much earlier, he wasn't 100% leaving until the end of the year. Even his family were split on what he should do.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder how other clubs compare in their lists of traitors, ours seems to be substantial.

I'm going to float another one which is quite fresh:

Adam Cooney

He is a dill for leaving and here is why:
Essendon, I mean really? all he is going to get is embroiled in their still ongoing nonsense. They are not going to be anywhere near a grand final, let alone a prelim. At least do a Lake and go to a team with a real shot.

He is now officially "Tainted" as far as we are concerned having left us for no real reason.

Its no problems for us as a team, his body is shot and his footy best is behind him, but we have stuck fat with Adam over the last 5 years and left no stone unturned in helping him medically and also honoring his huge contract.

I'm really disappointed in Adam, i thought better of him i really did.

Now he's just another schmuck at the drug cheats.

I have barely any ill feelings towards Coons. He didn't want to be part of the team and meet expectations, ok, that's pretty poor considering he's a paid professional, however when you consider that Griff was gone, and Coons would be spending the twilight years carrying our midfield, it's no wonder he left to a team where he'd be allowed to play the way he wanted to play. At Essendon he's just a cog in the machine, at the Dogs he'd be the engine room, taking all the hits to protect the younger guys. I got the impression that the club were happy to see him go, and that has also allayed any feelings of betrayal. It's not like he promised to play the part THEN go behind everybody's back. He was open and honest about moving to Essendon. That makes a difference to me.

[JohnGentStand]

Chris Dawes

Fancy choosing Melbourne over us - what a loooooser.

Luke Penny.
Ditched us for St Kilda.... ST KILDA!!!!!!
never to be forgiven

[jeemak]

Cooney and Lake shouldn't really feature, as they were effectively pushed out by the club. Both were asked to play roles different to those they were accustomed, and both left in lieu of not wanting to play those roles.

Griffan stands out as the most pathetic performance to me. Approached by the current captain he accepts the role for the coming season. Six months in he starts a dalliance with a bimbo of a club, and not being able to get his overly comfortable and poorly cultured mates into line he complains about the coaching panel to the administration saying if things don't change he's out because the playing group (i.e. his mates) have had enough. A map for change is presented to him, and he accepts it as a way forward and advises the club he's good to go. Two weeks later he comes home from a holiday and leaves, and then goes on another holiday to avoid the fallout.

I agree with Sedat and other posters who suggest he played the best football under finals pressure we've probably seen as a supporter group. It's such a pity he turned out to be so naive and weak as piss off the field in his final months with our football club. Letting his mates dominate him trashed his reputation among a very large group of people who adored him.

[Sedat]

I agree with Sedat and other posters who suggest he played the best football under finals pressure we've probably seen as a supporter group. It's such a pity he turned out to be so naive and weak as piss off the field in his final months with our football club. Letting his mates dominate him trashed his reputation among a very large group of people who adored him.
I share the disappointment of the way in which Griffen ended his association with our club, but purely as a footballer he gave elite service to our club for 10 years. From the day he walked out I've taken a very pragmatic view - his departure has given us the opportunity to reload with a far better balanced list and have a proper tilt at genuine success in 3-4 years time. By that stage he will be retired or at the very end of his career.

Cooney could have been anything for us if injury hadn't intervened. Purely from an on-field perspective, I could care less that he has left the club. Essendon can pay his superannuation.

Ward stings because he is tough, courageous, and a natural leader and still has many years at the top of his game. He already showed in 2009 and 2010 how he can match it with the best in the competition in finals as a teenager. Having said that, Macrae is a more than worthy substitute for the unexpected loss of losing, and I don't think I'd swap Macrae for Ward today.

[1eyedog]

Cooney and Lake shouldn't really feature, as they were effectively pushed out by the club. Both were asked to play roles different to those they were accustomed, and both left in lieu of not wanting to play those roles.

Griffan stands out as the most pathetic performance to me. Approached by the current captain he accepts the role for the coming season. Six months in he starts a dalliance with a bimbo of a club, and not being able to get his overly comfortable and poorly cultured mates into line he complains about the coaching panel to the administration saying if things don't change he's out because the playing group (i.e. his mates) have had enough. A map for change is presented to him, and he accepts it as a way forward and advises the club he's good to go. Two weeks later he comes home from a holiday and leaves, and then goes on another holiday to avoid the fallout.

I agree with Sedat and other posters who suggest he played the best football under finals pressure we've probably seen as a supporter group. It's such a pity he turned out to be so naive and weak as piss off the field in his final months with our football club. Letting his mates dominate him trashed his reputation among a very large group of people who adored him.

Is that what you call being pushed out of the club, a change in roles? Cooney had a hissy fit because he was asked to play a different role, he didn't get pushed out he was expected to be able to adapt to our needs and he would continue to be paid very handsomely to do so. Brian knew we weren't playing in a premiership and he wanted an opportunity to play in one before he retired. It was an excellent decision by Brian who went on to be the best player in a Grand Final. Cooney in effect has left thinking the Bombres offer a better chance to play in a Grand Final as well. Stupid.

I honestly find it hard to be upset about anyone leaving, we had our chance with Ward and didn't take it and Lake leaving wouldn't have meant the difference between finals or no finals. Cooney is not a big loss, on the contrary he has freed space in the cap and as others have suggested his best is well behind him. Griffin would probably play finals with us again as a 31 year old but his type is not as critical as the type of player Boyd could be as a 23/24 year old. The only player that really cut for me was Brown, partly because of the level of smugness he went out with but also because he would have been 30 in 2008 and would still have been tearing it up.

As for Lake being our best finals performer behind Griffin that is a pretty sad state of affairs given the stupid St. Nick shove as well as the toweling Buddy gave him in the 08 Qualifier (I know Buddy kicked a heap on Moz too). Lake pushing Riewoldt potentially cost us the game and so did Buddy's first quarter in 08.

[Flamethrower]

For me it is still Callan Ward, followed by Jim Edmond and Terry Wallace.

Kelvin Templeton and Adam Cooney were my favourite players when they left, but their knees were/are shot. I never liked Nathan Brown.

Ryan Griffen is the interesting one...what he did to the club was disgusting, and I am going to hate seeing him wearing a guernsey that will make him look like a US felon on death row this year, but we now have Tom Boyd on our list because of it.

If Griffen overcomes his back injury and leads a Giant surge up the ladder and Boyd turns into another disappoinment, then Griffen will rocket to number one on my list.

If Griffen struggles and the Felons win the spoon, and Boyd becomes the next Dunstall/Carey/Gretzky/Babe Ruth/Bradman (no pressure Tom) then the turmoil of the offseason will be forgotten, and Ryan will be remembered for all the right reasons.

[soupman]

As for Lake being our best finals performer behind Griffin that is a pretty sad state of affairs given the stupid St. Nick shove as well as the toweling Buddy gave him in the 08 Qualifier (I know Buddy kicked a heap on Moz too). Lake pushing Riewoldt potentially cost us the game and so did Buddy's first quarter in 08.

Sorry to be pedantic but Morris was on Buddy the entire first half. I remember thinking Lake wasn't a viable option, and we were stuck with Morris on him, which apparently the coaching staff agreed with until the damage was done. From memory Lake actually did really well on him in the second half all things considered and that was the beginning of the period where Lake was Buddy's regular opponent.

[1eyedog]

Sorry to be pedantic but Morris was on Buddy the entire first half. I remember thinking Lake wasn't a viable option, and we were stuck with Morris on him, which apparently the coaching staff agreed with until the damage was done. From memory Lake actually did really well on him in the second half all things considered and that was the beginning of the period where Lake was Buddy's regular opponent.

He went on him half way through the second and he actually kicked 4 goals on Lake in 2 1/2 quarters going by the highlights. But yes the game was gone at quarter time and Moz was on him for that period. Cheers.

[Twodogs]

While your watching what quarter is it that Buddy gives away two 50 metre penaltys in the same play? I can remember looking at him laughing while he was doing it and thinking how humililiating it was. The game must have been over by then.

[1eyedog]

While your watching what quarter is it that Buddy gives away two 50 metre penaltys in the same play? I can remember looking at him laughing while he was doing it and thinking how humililiating it was. The game must have been over by then.

The second and they were up by 29 points. He got dragged for it.

[soupman]

He went on him half way through the second and he actually kicked 4 goals on Lake in 2 1/2 quarters going by the highlights. But yes the game was gone at quarter time and Moz was on him for that period. Cheers.

I'll concede that one. Sorry for forcing you to endure the highlights:( Maybe I've managed to erase more of that night from my memory than I thought.

[Twodogs]

The second and they were up by 29 points. He got dragged for it.

thanks for checking. I am suprised we were that close because it felt like the Hawks owned us early on.


I'll concede that one. Sorry for forcing you to endure the highlights:( Maybe I've managed to erase more of that night from my memory than I thought.

Youre not alone. I could have swore that Lake was on Buddy all night.

[bornadog]

thanks for checking. I am suprised we were that close because it felt like the Hawks owned us early on.



Youre not alone. I could have swore that Lake was on Buddy all night.

Silly Coaching move to have Morro on Lake in the first half. Poor old Morro was monstered.

[Greystache]

Silly Coaching move to have Morro on Lake in the first half. Poor old Morro was monstered.

Especially when in the years to follow Lake actually made Buddy his bitch. He'd got into his head so much about being stronger and better in the air that Franklin stopped doing what made him good which was run, and instead tried to wrestle Lake every time. It reminded me of Carey vs Jakovich, one player who got into a champions head so much he totally changed the way he played.

[The Doctor]

Surprised no one has mentioned Mark Athorn.

[Twodogs]

Surprised no one has mentioned Mark Athorn.


Did he end up playing in a premiership? Or am I thinking of Mathew Hogg?

[azabob]

Did he end up playing in a premiership? Or am I thinking of Mathew Hogg?

Athorn lost one in 1993 and Hogg won one in 1995.

[bulldogtragic]

While your watching what quarter is it that Buddy gives away two 50 metre penaltys in the same play? I can remember looking at him laughing while he was doing it and thinking how humililiating it was. The game must have been over by then.

Yep. I recall the 50's he gave away were the only two passages of play we moved passed centre for 10+ minutes. Worst footy match ever. Ever. Ever. (Outside prelim heart breaks)

[Twodogs]

Yep. I recall the 50's he gave away were the only two passages of play we moved passed centre for 10+ minutes. Worst footy match ever. Ever. Ever. (Outside prelim heart breaks)


The first final against Hawthorn in 1985 was worse. I've never been as shell shocked as I was that day.

[bulldogtragic]

The first final against Hawthorn in 1985 was worse. I've never been as shell shocked as I was that day.

I'm glad I can't remember it then!!

I've never done leaving games early. But I left early that game I will admit, the prelims were heart breaking but this made me so angry and upset and empty. The whole team and all coaches need the whack. Morris and Lake don't deserve any more special mention than anyone else. It's as an awful whole of team performance than any other game I can remember. Why? Because they were not a group of guns with spudly sorts (Rhode era), they were a bonafide outfit. Or should've been that night.

Griffen.

[LostDoggy]

I am more unhappy about Ward than Griffen. Ward left at such a young age and would be perfect in the team now that we have lost so much experience. Imagine Ward, Libba and Macrae in the midfield.

It's funny because I remember gloating to mates and work colleagues about how our midfield of Cooney, Griffen, Ward & Higgins would dominate for 10+ years. All goneski 5/6 years after making those comments.

[jeemak]

Is that what you call being pushed out of the club, a change in roles? Cooney had a hissy fit because he was asked to play a different role, he didn't get pushed out he was expected to be able to adapt to our needs and he would continue to be paid very handsomely to do so. Brian knew we weren't playing in a premiership and he wanted an opportunity to play in one before he retired. It was an excellent decision by Brian who went on to be the best player in a Grand Final. Cooney in effect has left thinking the Bombres offer a better chance to play in a Grand Final as well. Stupid.

Surely if you offer a single scenario to a player that you don't think they'll be comfortable with, and present it as the only option with which to go forward you're essentially pushing them out - if you know full well they won't accept it.

This is what happened with Lake as far as I could tell from the outside looking in, while with Cooney he was going to continue to be badgered about playing a certain way for the remainder of his career if he stayed with our club. EFC needed a good story to sell, recruiting a Brownlow Medalist to their club was just the tonic with only one condition - Cooney could continue to play the way he has since his knee started to let him down.

[Remi Moses]

Surprised no one has mentioned Mark Athorn.

AThorn was poo. He was Essendons best player in that GF

[1eyedog]

Surely if you offer a single scenario to a player that you don't think they'll be comfortable with, and present it as the only option with which to go forward you're essentially pushing them out - if you know full well they won't accept it.

This is what happened with Lake as far as I could tell from the outside looking in, while with Cooney he was going to continue to be badgered about playing a certain way for the remainder of his career if he stayed with our club. EFC needed a good story to sell, recruiting a Brownlow Medalist to their club was just the tonic with only one condition - Cooney could continue to play the way he has since his knee started to let him down.

I guess it depends on whether the player is halfway out the door for other reasons and for all intents and purposes IMO both Lake and Cooney were. It also depends on the mental and emotional character and strength of the player and whether they have the best interests of the club at heart. Some players come into the club and bleed red white and blue without question and others fill up on self worth towards the end of their careers and think they are untouchable because they are vets and champs.

If the best interest of the club demanded Brian and Adam to play a different role then, as employees and servants of the club, they needed to adapt and accept what was required of them. If they weren't going to accept it then they are clearly not acting in the best interests of the club. I am naive to the inner machinations of what transpired between these two players but asking players to change the way they play for the benefit of the club is not forcing them out the door, at least from my position.

[jeemak]

I appreciate what you're saying, and tend to agree.

[westdog54]

It's funny because I remember gloating to mates and work colleagues about how our midfield of Cooney, Griffen, Ward & Higgins would dominate for 10+ years. All goneski 5/6 years after making those comments.

Geez, they are too, aren't they.

That is really, really depressing.

Mind you, having Bontempelli, Macrae and Liberatore in the same midfield is some form of comfort.

[Maddog37]

The only thing Higgins was going to dominate was the best hair awards.

[LostDoggy]

Surprised no one has mentioned Mark Athorn.

I remember being shattered as a younger bloke when Matty Hogg went (for whatever reason) and also Stuart Wigney.

[KT31]

I was shattered when the when both KT and Dougie left to play for other teams and always thought poorly of the few who left were Captains at the time, but I have always understood that this was the culture of the club in those times.
The biggest turncoat for me was Judas then followed by Plough but now it is Griffenflog, he was only captain for a couple of months and had already made the decision to leave.

[G-Mo77]

I remember being shattered as a younger bloke when Matty Hogg went (for whatever reason) and also Stuart Wigney.

So was I for some strange reason. We may have a bleached blonde fetish. :)