Liam Jones' First Outing In Carton Colours

[F'scary]

From News.Com.Au, 27/4/2015:

"Carlton recruit Liam Jones, well beaten by Mackenzie early, failed to take advantage of the Eagles’ depleted defence and finished wth one goal in his first outing in navy blue."

[The Doctor]

How did Tutt go?

[azabob]

How did Tutt go?

According to the stat sheet, worse. Five kicks, two handballs, one mark, no scores.

[F'scary]

How did Tutt go?

He didn't rate a mention in the News.Com.Au article.

[chef]

Meh.

[Twodogs]

Looking forward to seeing how Caleb Daniel goes today

[F'scary]

Looking forward to seeing how Caleb Daniel goes today

Ah yes, I see the connection 2D. We swapped Jones for pick 46, then used pick 46 to recruit Daniel. Imagine if this turns into a significant trade win for us! I'm also watching the Cooney for Biggs and Hamilton trade. Higgins for Webb is the other one. Astute trading is one thing that will see us move right up the ladder over the next few years - but it is too early to call these things yet.

[F'scary]

Of course, there is also the Grifter + Marchbank for Tom Boyd.

[Twodogs]

Ah yes, I see the connection 2D. We swapped Jones for pick 46, then used pick 46 to recruit Daniel. Imagine if this turns into a significant trade win for us! I'm also watching the Cooney for Biggs and Hamilton trade. Higgins for Webb is the other one. Astute trading is one thing that will see us move right up the ladder over the next few years - but it is too early to call these things yet.


Yep agreed. It's to early to make a definitive judgement, but that won't stop me contacting Carlton supporting mates this week if Caleb gets more than ten touches today and letting them know.:D

[Maddog37]

Looking forward to seeing how Caleb Daniel goes today


I thought he wasn't playing today?

[Flamethrower]

Watched the game from Mandurah.

Same Tutt, different guernsey. Did his star jumps on the mark every time his opponent had the pill (which seemed quite often), ran around like a headless chook trying to get a kick, and when he did get it he kicked it along the ground. To be fair his first grubber found Tom Bell who slotted a goal for the Blues.

Ditto for LJ. Led to the ball by MacKenzie until he went off with a suspected ACL injury, had no 2nd efforts and kicked a lucky goal off the ground. To be fair the conditions didn't suit tall marking forwards, as none of the tall forwards did much when the ball was bombed long into the forward line.

[F'scary]

Apparently Malthouse was not able to make it to the match due to family circumstances. So, Liam Jones will get to fight another day.

[GVGjr]

A lot of our Bulldog members seem to take great delight in a poor performance by an ex player. I'm more focused on how the team goes today.

[bornadog]

A lot of our Bulldog members seem to take great delight in a poor performance by an ex player. I'm more focused on how the team goes today.

agree, who cares about the ex players

[Maddog37]

A lot of our Bulldog members seem to take great delight in a poor performance by an ex player. I'm more focused on how the team goes today.

And that is your perogative G. I on the other hand enjoy the occasional indulgence in some schadenfreude.

[GVGjr]

And that is your perogative G. I on the other hand enjoy the occasional indulgence in some schadenfreude.

I'll say, this story even got put on Dogs Day before I moved it onto the AFL board. It's obviously very exciting news.....to some.

[chef]

And that is your perogative G. I on the other hand enjoy the occasional indulgence in some schadenfreude.

Yep, each to their own. I don't mind seeing a guy who's left for greener pastures fail or have no success.

[Remi Moses]

Didn't he play on Brad Edwards ? A mid?
Same old same old. I'm sure Liam will tease with the good game here or there, but you'd think he'd put in a good one first up.

[Remi Moses]

I'll say, this story even got put on Dogs Day before I moved it onto the AFL board. It's obviously very exciting news.....to some.

I take your point. I take exception when a player doesn't perform for your club then turns it on for his new team.

[The Underdog]

I take your point. I take exception when a player doesn't perform for your club then turns it on for his new team.

Maybe you shouldn't necessarily place all of the blame on the player.

[F'scary]

A lot of our Bulldog members seem to take great delight in a poor performance by an ex player. I'm more focused on how the team goes today.


agree, who cares about the ex players

Taking time out during the morning of our first NAB Cup match to post on something quite topical (a turncoat fails in his first outing yesterday for a new club) does not mean we are not interested in how the team goes today. It is all grist for the mill.

[The Underdog]

Taking time out during the morning of our first NAB Cup match to post on something quite topical (a turncoat fails in his first outing yesterday for a new club) does not mean we are not interested in how the team goes today. It is all grist for the mill.

Hopefully turncoats, Tom Boyd & Koby Stevens have better days

[Remi Moses]

Maybe you shouldn't necessarily place all of the blame on the player.

Well if footy is a business( as we hear it is) an employee is paid to play to the best of his ability, and if he performs better under his new employer then he deserves to be scrutinised.
FWIW I don't subscribe to the theory that football is a business, but that's what we're fed consistently .

[Twodogs]

I thought he wasn't playing today?

I thought I saw his name on the bench but you're right he isn't playing.

[Twodogs]

Well if footy is a business( as we hear it is) an employee is paid to play to the best of his ability, and if he performs better under his new employer then he deserves to be scrutinised.
FWIW I don't subscribe to the theory that football is a business, but that's what we're fed consistently .

Me either. I also think the media/footballers/clubs misunderstand the word "professional" as purely someone who receives money and not as an attitude to your craft or profession.

[Maddog37]

Footy is one of the few things in life that I can let my heart rule my head and not regret it later. It's a great emotional outlet.

[KT31]

Meh Meh

[The Underdog]

Well if footy is a business( as we hear it is) an employee is paid to play to the best of his ability, and if he performs better under his new employer then he deserves to be scrutinised.
FWIW I don't subscribe to the theory that football is a business, but that's what we're fed consistently .

It's also up to the employer to get the best out of an employee. Football is a a fairly un-standard workplace where the players performance is also reasonably dependent upon the clubs ability to train, teach and get the best out of them. If this doesn't occur then while certainly blame can be placed on the player to varying degrees, the role of the club needs to be looked at too.

[bulldogtragic]

Jones 3 kicks in 3 quarters.

I wonder how long until Carlton members realise they've been fed BS all pre season.

[FrediKanoute]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[1eyedog]

Jones 3 kicks in 3 quarters.

I wonder how long until Carlton members realise they've been fed BS all pre season.

My Carlton mates were not happy about the signing from the outset.

[G-Mo77]

I don't get the venom aimed at Liam. He's moved on now and Redpath has jumped in his spot and is doing quite well. Shouldn't we be more focused on that?

[Bulldog4life]

Personally I think he will end up being a good player for Carlton. Kicked 2 goals today missed a sitter and was the number one forward on Harry Taylor. When he eventually has the second to third best defender he should be a more consistent player.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't get the venom aimed at Liam. He's moved on now and Redpath has jumped in his spot and is doing quite well. Shouldn't we be more focused on that?

Can't speak for everyone, but for me it's a mere matter of interest in ex-players. Every Carlton mouth piece for 4 months has talked, ney passionately screamed, about a gun player with a new marking technique and a guy destroying defenders. So I'm curious to see this player I never saw. I'm assuming some others might be interested too. Just stating it seems like BS from Carlton and I stated a fact, to three quarter time he had 3 kicks.

[GVGjr]

I don't get the venom aimed at Liam. He's moved on now and Redpath has jumped in his spot and is doing quite well. Shouldn't we be more focused on that?

Tom Boyd breaks a contract to come to the dogs and we embrace him. Liam Jones contracts runs out and leaves us so some feel the need to highlight when he doesn't measure up. Higgins plays well for North so nothing to mention yet.

I'd still rather watch the players we have than the ones that we don't.

[bulldogtragic]

Tom Boyd breaks a contract to come to the dogs and we embrace him. Liam Jones contracts runs out and leaves us so some feel the need to highlight when he doesn't measure up. Higgins plays well for North so nothing to mention yet.

I'd still rather watch the players we have than the ones that we don't.

Can't watch other games? Can't mention former players in those games? .??.?

Edit: Boyd embraced us, Jones repudiated us. I think that's a valid point you make.

[GVGjr]

Can't watch other games? Can't mention former players in those games? .??.?

Edit: Boyd embraced us, Jones repudiated us. I think that's a valid point you make.

You sure can, I watched a replay of last night though and I still prefer to watch us.

My point is that it's only the negative comments on ex players that gets threads like this bumped.
Peoples choice but not something I overly enjoy reading.

[bulldogtragic]

You sure can, I watched a replay of last night though and I still prefer to watch us.

My point is that it's only the negative comments on ex players that gets threads like this bumped.
Peoples choice but not something I overly enjoy reading.

If he played well, kicked 7 or so, I'd bump it too. The Carlton rhetoric on him is why I'm still even thinking about him. A new technique, new fitness, new attitudes. Apparently he's overnight everything we couldn't make him in 6 years. So of course I'm interested. The problem is he's played 3 poor games in 3 outings. Hes not given any of us a chance to bump the thread on a positive game!!

[Webby]

All I know is that we swapped Jones for pick 46 and nabbed Caleb Daniel with it.

Caleb Daniel makes me smile. It makes me feel good to watch him. He puts a spring in my step. Jones just gave me a knot in my stomach, a lump in my throat and a sinking feeling the vast majority of the time.

Whilst I'm at it, Shaun Higgins' departure paved the way for us to take Lukas Webb. From what I've seen of Webb, his upside is enormous. In my opinion, it's bigger than Higgins', whilst he certainly has more longevity. Early doors, but I'm feeling good about that kid.

We should just let it go, now. Worry about our backyard and our objective: Tonnes of talent and shaping it into this club's first real dynasty since we joined the League. That HAS TO BE the focus. Jones is rearview mirror stuff - as is Higgins.

I haven't felt this good about our future for 5-6 years. I'm telling every Dogs supporter I know, "Get onboard now. Watch it from the beginning. By design, by luck, or a combination of the two, we're building something very, very promising."

[Hotdog60]

I think that in hindsight the players that have left us have done us a favour.

The guy that went to GWS may still hurt but in 2-3 years will we care. The couple that went to Carlton were on the fringe so what's the big deal.

The other who went to North good luck but again others will get their opportunity the past player has never hit his potential.

Essendon may have got a Brownlow player but again since he won it again only a small glimpse of how great he was.

I like what I see in the future and that is were my focus lies. I was a big supporter of the coach, Macca as I was of rocket but you can't change events so you have to get on with the future.

[Maddog37]

I personally find Liam Jones an interesting topic and enjoy reading fellow Woofers opinions of him.

[bulldogtragic]

It's an open forum. If no one wants to discuss anything not about the club, they won't. End of this and any other like thread.

Sorry, but it's a lot like being told we can't walk and chew gum at the same time if theres a post that isn't about internal things. Maybe if we shut every non internal thread, shut all the other boards and only allow publication of sanctioned posts...

Carlton have said for 4 months they've turned a former player into a gun player. Time and time again. That intrigues me as it relates to our ability to have developed him, and managed him, and coached him. It implies a deficiency on our part, an incompetence, an u professionalism. To date, the facts are this implication is BS. I find it interesting, and it's a footy forum. So ignore me and others and this thread will die a natural death. Or leave those that find it interesting alone to discuss what we find interesting.

[Maddog37]

It's an open forum. If no one wants to discuss anything not about the club, they won't. End of this and any other like thread.

Sorry, but it's a lot like being told we can't walk and chew gum at the same time if theres a post that isn't about internal things. Maybe if we shut every non internal thread, shut all the other boards and only allow publication of sanctioned posts...

Carlton have said for 4 months they've turned a former player into a gun player. Time and time again. That intrigues me as it relates to our ability to have developed him, and managed him, and coached him. It implies a deficiency on our part, an incompetence, an u professionalism. To date, the facts are this implication is BS. I find it interesting, and it's a footy forum. So ignore me and others and this thread will die a natural death. Or leave those that find it interesting alone to discuss what we find interesting.

Strong words.

As an open forum people are also free to express their distaste for a topic too. I enjoy the strong mindedness displayed by all though.

[bulldogtragic]

Strong words.

As an open forum people are also free to express their distaste for a topic too. I enjoy the strong mindedness displayed by all though.

And as an open forum I can express my distaste to their distaste, to others distaste about distasteful things... :)

I just don't get why this conversation needed to have continued on. A thread without postings dies. An uninteresting thread dies too. I think whether another, bigger, club can immediately transform a player we couldn't in 6 years is an interesting topic. Especially how hard they pushed it in the media. Whether he succeeds, fails or plebs on.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's an open forum. If no one wants to discuss anything not about the club, they won't. End of this and any other like thread.

Sorry, but it's a lot like being told we can't walk and chew gum at the same time if theres a post that isn't about internal things. Maybe if we shut every non internal thread, shut all the other boards and only allow publication of sanctioned posts...

Carlton have said for 4 months they've turned a former player into a gun player. Time and time again. That intrigues me as it relates to our ability to have developed him, and managed him, and coached him. It implies a deficiency on our part, an incompetence, an u professionalism. To date, the facts are this implication is BS. I find it interesting, and it's a footy forum. So ignore me and others and this thread will die a natural death. Or leave those that find it interesting alone to discuss what we find interesting.

Mick has come out reportedly this week and said "he can't see where Carlton will lose a game"

That is more outlandish than any comment about Liam Jones.

Personally, I am concerned about the mental stability of the Carlton coach.

Is it really about marketing, because if Mick really believes what he reportedly said at the Carlton season launch, he should not be in gainful employment at all.

[GVGjr]

Sorry, but it's a lot like being told we can't walk and chew gum at the same time if theres a post that isn't about internal things. Maybe if we shut every non internal thread, shut all the other boards and only allow publication of sanctioned posts...



More than a touch dramatic in my opinion but at least you have had your say. I get the schadenfreude attraction but if you really wanted to spark a conversation to discuss Carlton feeding the supporters false hope in the form of Jones there also are a number of other players who have come in a with similar position to Jones not just Jones. Carlton paid a low price for him and I think he was always seen as a depth player for them. He might or might not benefit from being the 3rd tall forward in their line-up and potentially getting lesser opponents.

For a team that finished one spot above ours last season they have gone in the absolute opposite direction from a recruiting and trading position. Even their first pick in the National draft was a state league player.

I recently watched the Bulldogs vs Pies game from last season and the effort Jones displayed as excellent. Who knows if he is capable of doing something like that for the Blues this year.

[F'scary]

Jones 3 kicks in 3 quarters.

I wonder how long until Carlton members realise they've been fed BS all pre season.

It hasn't taken long. From the BF Carlton v Geelong gameday thread:


>Terrible start from watson and jones

Moe B, Today at 4:40 PM


>Are Watson and Jones even playing?

Atom Ant, Today at 4:41 PM


>Those blaming Watson and Jones aren't watching the same game I am, the mids aren't even touching the ball, how can we expect the tall forwards to do anything...

mickelboy182, Today at 4:42


>Some bloke absolutely giving it to Jones at quarter time

SE_Blue, Today at 4:43 PM


>Jones is lazy, lazy, lazy.

MEB_, Today at 4:44


>I see your point, I never though he was bad, but wow.

Atom Ant, Today at 4:45 PM


>I thought that last week sounds like he hasnt improved.

AceAndy, Today at 4:45


>Worse if anything. There was a distinct moment where he stopped chasing and just dawdled after the ball. Lazy!!

MEB_, Today at 4:46 PM


>And a new 'whipping boy' is born...

goreds, Today at 4:46 PM


>Has he actually touched the ball yet ?

AceAndy, Today at 4:47 PM


>Not even chasing, and when he does is already half arsed, can't believe we wanted him.

Atom Ant, Today at 4:47 PM


>Right in front of me.

He's certainly no good one on one.

SE_Blue, Today at 4:47 PM


>Yeah, not sure what the hype was about in the preseason.

Jarrod Waiteee, Today at 4:50 PM


>According to Mick, Jones is a beast.

Atom Ant, Today at 4:50 PM


>Was apparently training the house down. Oh well perhaps he will go ok in the NBs [editor's note: "NBs" = Northern Blues, Carlton's reserves team]

AceAndy, Today at 4:51 PM


>Liam Jones hasn't got one statistic. Not one, literally. No entirely his fault though.

andrew_, Today at 5:03 PM


>Both Jones and Watson have been unsighted neither are good enough for round 1 at the moment

I AM CARLTON, Today at 5:04 PM


>Well Jones won't be playing Rd 1.

JamisonRun40, Today at 5:06 PM


>Watson and Jones have been terrible.

Honestly we are better off playing with Hendo and Casboult alone.

BM123, Today at 5:07 PM


>Haven't even seen Jones so far this quarter. He needs a spray from Mick at HT about his work rate. At least Watson is getting closer to the ball.

Anzac16, Today at 5:09 PM


>haha Jones just jumped away from the ball!

andrew_, Today at 5:10 PM


>Then just stopped. Didn't even bother running after the ball...

Anzac16, Today at 5:11 PM


>Yeah Jones and Watson have shown nothing. He needs to convert this.

Jatz, Today at 5:11 PM


>JOOOOOOONESSSSSSSSSYYYYYYY

SE_Blue, Today at 5:12 PM


>Thank the lord! Did Chestmark Jones just do what I think he did?

andrew_, Today at 5:12 PM


>That's his first disposal of the game. Oh dear. At least he kicked it.

Jatz, Today at 5:12 PM


>BOG

Quazza, Today at 5:13 PM


>Onya Liam

SE_Blue, Today at 5:14 PM

...


I think that's one deal we have come out in front on :D

[bulldogtragic]

More than a touch dramatic in my opinion but at least you have had your say. I get the schadenfreude attraction but if you really wanted to spark a conversation to discuss Carlton feeding the supporters false hope in the form of Jones as you seem to now be saying there are a number of other players who have come in a with similar position to Jones not just Jones. Carlton paid a low price for him and I think he was always seen as a depth player for them. He might or might not benefit from being the 3rd tall forward in their line-up and potentially getting lesser opponents.

For a team that finished one spot above ours last season they have gone in the absolute opposite direction from a recruiting and trading position. Even their first pick in the National draft was a state league player.

I recently watched the Bulldogs vs Pies game from last season and the effort Jones displayed as excellent. Who knows if he is capable of doing something like that for the Blues this year.

Thanks for the sledge. Carltons list management is a nightmare, no debate. As I've alluded to its not whether he gets consistently good, bad or other. Carlton immediately came out and questioned his fitness base and conditioning. Question why he was playing magoos. Revolutionised his marking technique and developed the ability to get him to do new things in his game. The actual club may have just said what their mind numbing members sprout, that is were a little shit club, mismanaged him, didn't even have him fit and didn't have coaches that realised he ran under the ball. Beyond that, every club sanctioned interview talked about that there was a revolution in his game and he was going to destroy opposition teams from the first game. There's a subtle sledge at our club in there, so I think it's at least interesting to see whether it was PR & BS, or whether our club, coaches and conditioning staff failed Jones.

On the balance, nothing looks to have changed so far in his game. So just perhaps Jones application or attitude might be the issue not our club, conditioning staff and coaches as has been implied. I'm not trying to pot the guy so much as endorse the clubs handling of him. As if he'd kicked 20.4 in the NAB we'd be all asking why it happened and who to blame for him being a closet gun player.

Good, bad, form, no form. It's merely interesting to me at least.

[F'scary]

Thanks for the sledge. Carltons list management is a nightmare, no debate. As I've alluded to its not whether he gets consistently good, bad or other. Carlton immediately came out and questioned his fitness base and conditioning. Question why he was playing magoos. Revolutionised his marking technique and developed the ability to get him to do new things in his game. The actual club may have just said what their mind numbing members sprout, that is were a little shit club, mismanaged him, didn't even have him fit and didn't have coaches that realised he ran under the ball. Beyond that, every club sanctioned interview talked about that there was a revolution in his game and he was going to destroy opposition teams from the first game. There's a subtle sledge at our club in there, so I think it's at least interesting to see whether it was PR & BS, or whether our club, coaches and conditioning staff failed Jones.

On the balance, nothing looks to have changed so far in his game. So just perhaps Jones application or attitude might be the issue not our club, conditioning staff and coaches as has been implied. I'm not trying to pot the guy so much as endorse the clubs handling of him. As if he'd kicked 20.4 in the NAB we'd be all asking why it happened and who to blame for him being a closet gun player.

Good, bad, form, no form. It's merely interesting to me at least.

Well said. It's not really Jones we are having a go at, it's Carton.

[Remi Moses]

MIck's comments are bordering on insane .
Surely he was taking the micky ( pardon the pun)
Jones is gone, and he'll tease them with the odd big Mark, but no matter what fitness you have its a mental issue to want to chase.
Liam just doesn't possess that trait consistently enough, and hence that's why he was a fringe player in a bottom club.

[azabob]

You are right BT, on the flip side of Jones had performed and exceed expectations we would be discussing it.

[Topdog]

You are right BT, on the flip side of Jones had performed and exceed expectations we would be discussing it.

Yeah agree. It's because we needed him to actually fulfil his potential which I don't think he ever will do.

[chef]

And if Jones goes well people will bag out aspects of our club.

If it promotes discussion I don't see the problem with it.

[KT31]

Mick has come out reportedly this week and said "he can't see where Carlton will lose a game"

That is more outlandish than any comment about Liam Jones.

Personally, I am concerned about the mental stability of the Carlton coach.

Is it really about marketing, because if Mick really believes what he reportedly said at the Carlton season launch, he should not be in gainful employment at all.

For real ?
Mick has either had as savage knock to the head or is going to wear a blindfold during games this season.

[Twodogs]

More than a touch dramatic in my opinion but at least you have had your say. I get the schadenfreude attraction but if you really wanted to spark a conversation to discuss Carlton feeding the supporters false hope in the form of Jones there also are a number of other players who have come in a with similar position to Jones not just Jones. Carlton paid a low price for him and I think he was always seen as a depth player for them. He might or might not benefit from being the 3rd tall forward in their line-up and potentially getting lesser opponents.

For a team that finished one spot above ours last season they have gone in the absolute opposite direction from a recruiting and trading position. Even their first pick in the National draft was a state league player.

I recently watched the Bulldogs vs Pies game from last season and the effort Jones displayed as excellent. Who knows if he is capable of doing something like that for the Blues this year.

This is the point. Carlton are delusional, they think that getting top up players from other clubs are going to improve their results and ladder position. But they are welcome to continue pissing draft picks against the wall in exchange for magic beans.

Mick was the wrong choice of coach for a club that really needs to go back to the start and rebuild properly.

[bornadog]

This is the point. Carlton are delusional, they think that getting top up players from other clubs are going to improve their results and ladder position. But they are welcome to continue pissing draft picks against the wall in exchange for magic beans.

Mick was the wrong choice of coach for a club that really needs to go back to the start and rebuild properly.

Amazing that Hawthorn's backline consists of Lake, Gibson, Frawley all from other clubs. Can be done, but not the players Carlton have picked.

[lemmon]

Amazing that Hawthorn's backline consists of Lake, Gibson, Frawley all from other clubs. Can be done, but not the players Carlton have picked.

It's like comparing apples with oranges, Hawthorn were at the pointy end when they managed to grab 3 All Australian players. It's a fair way off being a mediocre side and simply adding more mediocrity

[Twodogs]

Amazing that Hawthorn's backline consists of Lake, Gibson, Frawley all from other clubs. Can be done, but not the players Carlton have picked.



They are cherry on the cake players. The guys you bring in to fill obvious holes in your list when you already have the basic infrastructure of a good team. Hawthorn drafted their stars, traded to fill holes without going through angst over the pick they were giving up in order to to get the player they wanted to improve their team.

Carlton are all cherries and no cake.

[Bulldog Joe]

They are cherry on the cake players. The guys you bring in to fill obvious holes in your list when you already have the basic infrastructure of a good team. Hawthorn drafted their stars, traded to fill holes without going through angst over the pick they were giving up in order to to get the player they wanted to improve their team.

Carlton are all cherries and no cake.

The problem is that they are also grade 3 cherries

[Twodogs]

The problem is that they are also grade 3 cherries

They certainly aren't your glacé cherries.

[LostDoggy]

Amazing that Hawthorn's backline consists of Lake, Gibson, Frawley all from other clubs. Can be done, but not the players Carlton have picked.

Carlton have always preferred to buy talent. in the past they've tried to buy entire clubs. It's little wonder that a famous coach, who can see he doesn't have the cattle to keep him in gainful employment and add a little more moolah to the nest egg, is going to tell them he has the answer, and guess what? They don't even have to rebuild. That's for chumps, that's for clubs like Melbourne and the Dogs, not powerhouses like Carlton. They can simply grab these players, these guns that aren't even recognised as such by their very own clubs, no, Old Mickey can see what others can't, we'll get em cheap and be right back in the hunt for number 17.

Coaching might be a tough gig but this is a man who's done it for decades and knows how to tango. He might get the sack, but nobody is going to make him give the money back.

[Bulldog Joe]

I found the article on Jones in the Herald Sun very interesting.

Basically, he is still starstruck and has posters of the games legends around him. To me this highlights one of his fundamental issues, in his lack of self belief.

He just does not see himself as the star and is seeking to be a lesser light, hence his move from us as he did not want to be number 1 forward.

It will be interesting to see how his season unfolds. I am expecting some very good performances, but feel he will fall away too often.

On a personal level, I do hope it works out for him.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/liam-jones-is-a-rejuvenated-player-at-carlton-and-wants-to-repay-the-blues-faith/story-fni5f5nx-1227288326305

[josie]

Call me grumpy and unfair if you will. When a player says he left because ....

“I get asked why I left a lot, but it’s pretty easy for me - I just wasn’t getting a game,” Jones said. He (McCartney) just ran out of faith in me. I think he felt that it was time to give other guys a turn and unfortunately there were a few other guys, regardless of my VFL form, that he was pretty insistent on giving a go and I suffered and ended up playing out the year in the VFL.”

....I personally will feel a bit disgruntled with Jones if, after all the time & effort the Dogs put into him, and knowing we tried to retain him (after Macca was no longer coach), he finally becomes consistently good at another club.

The main reason I think this way wrt Jones is IMO he did not often try his guts out with us at senior level (drop the head, little tackle pressure, no putting in a big pre-season for Dogs to build up tank etc). As opposed to Cross who was less talented but always gutsy. And yes I know with Cross we dropped him, not the other way around. I also feel OK about Cooney leaving although it will be weird to see him in EFC colours.

Perhaps when it was clear we were signing Tom Boyd, Jones was worried he would not regain a senior's spot when in fact I think it would have suited him heaps.

Also hoping Redpath performs well this year as I think it was a "Jones vs Redpath" playing situation if Jones had stayed put.

[Before I Die]

Typical Liam. Promises much, delivers little.


Liam Jones 4 Kicks, 2 Handballs, 4 tackles, 1 Mark, 2 Goals, 1 Behind

All the scores were in the first quarter, which means he had one kick after quarter time.

[Webby]

....I personally will feel a bit disgruntled with Jones if, after all the time & effort the Dogs put into him, and knowing we tried to retain him (after Macca was no longer coach), he finally becomes consistently good at another club.

I wouldn't be too worried about that coming to pass!

The guy just CANNOT handle quality AFL level defensive opponents. He has no idea. One mark and five possessions... Carlton are more than welcome to him.

Caleb Daniel any day for me! Jones will be lucky to get another year.

[ratsmac]

I thought Jones played well (tongue firmly in cheek)

[Bulldog Joe]

I wouldn't be too worried about that coming to pass!

The guy just CANNOT handle quality AFL level defensive opponents. He has no idea. One mark and five possessions... Carlton are more than welcome to him.

Caleb Daniel any day for me! Jones will be lucky to get another year.

Didn't I read somewhere that he got a 3 year contract.
Well done to his manager if that is true.

[Webby]

Yeah Jones probably got 2 or more years, but it'd be peanuts. As Mick gave the trade the nod, he'll stick by him for a time, however patience will run out. We only know that too well.

[G-Mo77]

Again don't get the glee in his poor games. Is there a Jason Tutt thread so I can rip him for not even getting a game?

Anyway Carlton looked great in the first term, that was about it.

[Go_Dogs]

I must admit, I didn't pay a lot of attention to his individual game last night, but he took a couple of nice marks and had a really good holding the ball as well.

Watching the game last night with a Dogs mate, we both seemed to agree no harm in him having a good year, and career, at Carlton. He'd be struggling to get a game in our forward line, so hopefully the move turns out to be a good one for all parties, except for when the Blues play us.

[Webby]

Jones only took one mark for the game. He did get a goal from one that spilled off the back of the pack to him, and he did make a holding the ball tackle.

Basically, what he put out for Carlton last night wouldn't rank in his top 15 games for us... And, let's face it, he wasn't good enough for us. I agree, we should move on and there is no harm done by him having a good year at Carlton. However I do feel that there's Buckley's and none of that happening.

[Go_Dogs]

Jones only took one mark for the game. He did get a goal from one that spilled off the back of the pack to him, and he did make a holding the ball tackle.

Oops, shows how much attention I was paying.


I agree, we should move on and there is no harm done by him having a good year at Carlton.

Yep. Once Boyd and Redpath have a few days out I think our whole supporter base will be of the same opinion.

[ratsmac]

Again don't get the glee in his poor games. Is there a Jason Tutt thread so I can rip him for not even getting a game?

Anyway Carlton looked great in the first term, that was about it.

It's all a bit of fun. Would you be rapt if he kicked 10 goals though? I certainly wouldn't. I hate seeing ex bulldog players dominate at other clubs. That's just me. I wish him all the best even though I won't enjoy it if he kicks bags of goals.

[always right]

The thing that bothers me the most is his decision to use the off season to improve his strength and aerobic capacity instead of taking a break. All to give himself the best chance of making his move to a new club successful. Pity he didn't decide to do this at our club instead of sooking it up about not getting a game. Stronger willed players would have used that to strive harder to prove the doubters wrong.

From the evidence of one game it appears that when under pressure he lapses into old habits i.e. trying to mark on his chest in a pack situation, and dropping out the back instead of leading at the ball carrier. For a big bloke with great pace, will we ever see him marking in front on a fast lead?

[F'scary]

Watched most of the match last night, Jonesy did the same as he did with us: teased the supporters. I think his performance will further put to bed the talk about us bleeding good players because we are no good at player management.

I notice that the Bombers have selected Cooney at half back flank. They are about to learn something.

[LostDoggy]

Mick and every Carlton supporter were Liam fans for a quarter.... But where did he go? Very familiar...

Although if he does average 2 goals a game he will be good value for Carlton.

[bornadog]

Mick and every Carlton supporter were Liam fans for a quarter.... But where did he go? Very familiar...

Although if he does average 2 goals a game he will be good value for Carlton.

To be fair to Liam, the ball was hardly in Carlton's forward line after quarter time. Carlton had 11 shots to quarter time and for the next three quarters had another 12 scoring shots. Not sure on the quarter by quarter inside 50, but this tells me there were very few opportunities.

[Remi Moses]

On the flip side we'd be reminded by all and sundry in " why did we let him go" when he plays a decent game.
He still doesn't understand why he didnt get a gig last year?
Good luck

[kruder]

It was gold watching Jones last night. I still remember a post on here about Jones in a intraclub game which I always giggle about. Will only ever be a cameo player at best and he adds perfectly to what is a very average Carlton list going forward full of second hand players.

[Maddog37]

I was amazed how often he flew for the mark and then simply stopped.

[bulldogtragic]

I was amazed how often he flew for the mark and then simply stopped.

Micks new marking technique for him?

[ledge]

I didn't see anything slightly different to when he played with us.
Flying high dropping marks and getting the odd goal
Same player, same effort, same result.

[Maddog37]

Micks new marking technique for him?

I reckon Mick would tear strips off him for his lack of second efforts. I thought Jaksch looked very petulant at times too. Hope he was injured.....

[bulldogtragic]

I reckon Mick would tear strips off him for his lack of second efforts. I thought Jaksch looked very petulant at times too. Hope he was injured.....

I think they will look back at their list management and see what we saw after Cheap As Chips. A desperate coaching bypassing draft picks to try bypass rebuilding in a selfish attempt to keep their job. As for the sprays, I think he will look to Macca sprays and realise it wasn't that bad after all.

[Twodogs]

I reckon Mick would tear strips off him for his lack of second efforts. I thought Jaksch looked very petulant at times too. Hope he was injured.....

I wouldn't think so. One of the reasons he left was the coach was picking on him.

Its how he reacts next week

[mjp]

It was gold watching Jones last night.

Disagree.

I am happy we were able to help Jones get to another club - he needed to move on and we needed to move him on. I still have hope for him as a player though and don't really enjoy watching him struggle.

[Rance Fan]

Moving on......

[chef]

Yep.

I'm a bit Meh with Liam, he's never going to be more than a Trent Bartlett type player.

Very happy to get the pick we got for him though, suckers.

[Ghost Dog]

What did we get again? Forgot

[G-Mo77]

What did we get again? Forgot

Caleb Daniel (Pick 46)

[Topdog]

Can't understand the hatred and wanting him to fail. He really didnt do anything to hurt the Bulldogs, he will probably ever be good enough as a player so I won't miss him.

Won't take joy from his failure though, unless he is playing against the Bulldogs.

[Remi Moses]

Don't hate the bloke, but let's be honest the coach has pumped his tyres ad-nauseam
Competitive beast aerobic beast, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound .
Great foil, third , fourth tall, it's been over the top

[G-Mo77]

Can't understand the hatred and wanting him to fail. He really didnt do anything to hurt the Bulldogs, he will probably ever be good enough as a player so I won't miss him.

Won't take joy from his failure though, unless he is playing against the Bulldogs.

I can't either. He did nothing differently to Higgins or Tutt yet they're never mentioned. I understand some supporters are just like that, with us or against us, that I get. When venom is aimed at just one ex player I think it's a bit ordinary. We got Daniel for him in the end and the way his tires are pumped up without playing a single game you'd think we'd be over the moon.

[1eyedog]

I can't either. He did nothing differently to Higgins or Tutt yet they're never mentioned. I understand some supporters are just like that, with us or against us, that I get. When venom is aimed at just one ex player I think it's a bit ordinary. We got Daniel for him in the end and the way his tires are pumped up without playing a single game you'd think we'd be over the moon.

It's all about finding the great white hope up forward. Again, he wasn't the answer. I think a lot of the vitriol is driven by disappointment in that as well as the small chance that he may still come good, albeit at another club.

[GVGjr]

I can't either. He did nothing differently to Higgins or Tutt yet they're never mentioned. I understand some supporters are just like that, with us or against us, that I get. When venom is aimed at just one ex player I think it's a bit ordinary. We got Daniel for him in the end and the way his tires are pumped up without playing a single game you'd think we'd be over the moon.

He was one of the whipping boy's when he was with us but some still won't let it go now that he is gone.
I get that it wasn't ideal they way he left us and I get that he never lived up to his potential but with the forward line we selected this week it would have been a decision between him and Redpath. I'm hoping Redpath has some good performances for us this year more than worrying about what Jones is doing.

[F'scary]

Read the posts, guys. It is not as personal as you seem to be assuming. The issue with Jones, like Tutt, Griffen, Cooney and perhaps others is that aspersions were cast on the Western Bulldogs over player management and the state the club was in. Bleeding talent because who would want to play for us. Getting the boots into us. That is the context.

With Jones, in particular, these inferences were made by Mick Malthouse and others. If Jones succeeds, the critics are proved correct. If he does not and a lot of us suspect that he will not be more successful than he was with us, then the egg is on the critics' faces and the reputation damage to us and, for that matter, to Brendan McCartney and those who brought McCartney into the club is diminished considerably.

[jazzadogs]

It's a search for vindication that the Western Bulldogs aren't the reason Liam Jones isn't a consistent AFL power forward.

Liam Jones is the reason Liam Jones isn't a consistent AFL power forward.

[Bulldog4life]

I am not in the hating Liam Jones camp but I never like to see any player who walks out of our Club succeed at another Club. Very simple.

[LostDoggy]

Read the posts, guys. It is not as personal as you seem to be assuming. The issue with Jones, like Tutt, Griffen, Cooney and perhaps others is that aspersions were cast on the Western Bulldogs over player management and the state the club was in. Bleeding talent because who would want to play for us. Getting the boots into us. That is the context.

With Jones, in particular, these inferences were made by Mick Malthouse and others. If Jones succeeds, the critics are proved correct. If he does not and a lot of us suspect that he will not be more successful than he was with us, then the egg is on the critics' faces and the reputation damage to us and, for that matter, to Brendan McCartney and those who brought McCartney into the club is diminished considerably.

Exactly right F'scray.
It's the infrence that we were in capable as a club to get the best out of him.
Because we are a poor club with little resources and money to give players like Jones the chances and tools to realise his full potential and talent that a big rich club like Carlton can do.
Like Jazzadogs also says,it is Liam Jones fault why Liam Jones will never be the player we or any other club will want him to be.

[Webby]

Happened to hear Robbo, Derm and King on SEN this morning. They were all critical of Jones and Robbo said something along the lines of "This might sound a bit harsh at this stage, but I think Jones is already under some pressure at Carlton."

Although Robbo's hardly the authority on all things AFL, it's good to know that it's not just us one eyed, embittered Dogs fans who saw it that way. Jones has not changed one bit - which is the worry for Carlton.

Shorty Daniel any day of the week, for me.

[Topdog]

Exactly right F'scray.
It's the infrence that we were in capable as a club to get the best out of him.
Because we are a poor club with little resources and money to give players like Jones the chances and tools to realise his full potential and talent that a big rich club like Carlton can do.
Like Jazzadogs also says,it is Liam Jones fault why Liam Jones will never be the player we or any other club will want him to be.


So just laugh at Malthouse

[Before I Die]

So just laugh at Malthouse

That is what this thread is doing. None of the posts have been vitriolic to Jones. Can a mod change the thread title to 'Mastermind Mick' then we can broaden the discussion beyond Liam.

[Remi Moses]

Read the posts, guys. It is not as personal as you seem to be assuming. The issue with Jones, like Tutt, Griffen, Cooney and perhaps others is that aspersions were cast on the Western Bulldogs over player management and the state the club was in. Bleeding talent because who would want to play for us. Getting the boots into us. That is the context.

With Jones, in particular, these inferences were made by Mick Malthouse and others. If Jones succeeds, the critics are proved correct. If he does not and a lot of us suspect that he will not be more successful than he was with us, then the egg is on the critics' faces and the reputation damage to us and, for that matter, to Brendan McCartney and those who brought McCartney into the club is diminished considerably.

Dead right . I haven't heard Luke B pump up Caleb's prospects like Malthouse has for Jones. Most pundits think Caleb won't make it due to his size, yet they pumped up Jones as Carltons third tall. I think some can't differienciate an opinion on someone's football abilities, and their attributes outside playing .

[ledge]

My thought on jones is he just hasn't got the tank and does two leads and then wants it over the top .. He also marks on his chest when he should be taking them at reach .. It's usually a double grab when he does take it over head which isn't really appropriate . Shows he doesn't really clamp the ball like Casboult does .. He ended up after 4 years ? Playing at full forward in our reserves, not sure he could improve any more to make it at AFL level.
He is probably a third tall in a struggling side and I think a 3rd forward should be a running type tall which he isn't.. He wouldn't get a game with us in front of Boyd,Stringer ,Crameri or even Campbell. They all have more run and can play midfield or ruck . He can't do any of that .

[Webby]

So just laugh at Malthouse

Well Garlett's been damn good for Melbourne this arvo, so it might just be that Carlton's list managers (including Mick) are Muppets!

[mjp]

Read the posts, guys. It is not as personal as you seem to be assuming. The issue with Jones, like Tutt, Griffen, Cooney and perhaps others is that aspersions were cast on the Western Bulldogs over player management and the state the club was in. Bleeding talent because who would want to play for us. Getting the boots into us. That is the context.

Not true. There are comments like 'it was gold watching Jones last night' and 'typical jones -promises but doesn't deliver'. Those are not comments about how the change of environment. They are comments celebrating one players struggles or failures. When Jones came to the club he was seen as the great forward hope-internally as well as by the fans. He flashes talent (as young talks often do) but it has been apparent for more than 12 months that he just needed to leave.

To me this is a Bulldogs board and I just get agitated by posts that seem to celebrate a player failing. Why we need to comment on jones (or Malthouse for that matter) I don't understand.

[F'scary]

Not true. There are comments like 'it was gold watching Jones last night' and 'typical jones -promises but doesn't deliver'. Those are not comments about how the change of environment. They are comments celebrating one players struggles or failures. When Jones came to the club he was seen as the great forward hope-internally as well as by the fans. He flashes talent (as young talks often do) but it has been apparent for more than 12 months that he just needed to leave.

To me this is a Bulldogs board and I just get agitated by posts that seem to celebrate a player failing. Why we need to comment on jones (or Malthouse for that matter) I don't understand.

Forum is called "AFL Talk".

[GVGjr]

Forum is called "AFL Talk".
And you are welcome to do so. Whats your point?

[bulldogtragic]

A large chunk of the thread isn't about Dogs, Jones or Carlton. Rather, about views on posters and their stuff. I don't condone cheap shots on Jones, but if the thread upsets anyone then I might suggest happiness might come from not reading it anymore. I don't get it, it's not an issue worthy of this much introspection is it... There's a dogs game on and freedom of speech. Let's just agree cheap shots are shit, but posters can express themselves.

Go dogs.

[GVGjr]

Good point BT I will close it for the balance of the game.
Its not AFL talk in fact it was originally posted on Dogs Day. It was always designed to pot the player or encourage others to do so

[kruder]

Disagree.

I am happy we were able to help Jones get to another club - he needed to move on and we needed to move him on. I still have hope for him as a player though and don't really enjoy watching him struggle.

Jones didn't need a new club he was given ample chances he needs to build a tank. He simply does not work hard enough in an AFL game and a new club won't change that fact. Players think changing club sometimes is a miracle cure. In Liam's case he is not AFL standard. I'd prefer Jong over Jones any day of the week.

[F'scary]

Good point BT I will close it for the balance of the game.
Its not AFL talk in fact it was originally posted on Dogs Day. It was always designed to pot the player or encourage others to do so

You are grasping at straws by trying to use the fact that I originally posted it in Dogs Day and you moved it to AFL Talk as evidence that my intention was unsavoury (at least that seems to be what you are saying). For the last time, the contextual background to his move to Carlton, makes him a reasonable target for a dig at, as a footballer, when he puts in an ordinary performance for his new club. You are basically telling me that its not ok to engage in a bit of "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" footy talk.

And unfortunately, Cooney, Higgins & the Grifter appear to have put in reasonable first showings for their new clubs, so we are denied that pleasure in their cases...for the time being.;)

[GVGjr]

You are grasping at straws by trying to use the fact that I originally posted it in Dogs Day and you moved it to AFL Talk as evidence that my intention was unsavoury (at least that seems to be what you are saying). For the last time, the contextual background to his move to Carlton, makes him a reasonable target for a dig at, as a footballer, when he puts in an ordinary performance for his new club. You are basically telling me that its not ok to engage in a bit of "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" footy talk.



Your opening post contained minimal content and it was placed on Dogs Days because you saw it as news worthy for the Bulldogs.
It wasn't and still isn't.

As for engaging in a bit of 'don't let the the door hit you' it might have been relevant when he first departed but a performance in a practice game was never a defining moment. I get schadenfreude but I won't be accepting a series of threads with a bitter theme on ex players.

[F'scary]

Your opening post contained minimal content and it was placed on Dogs Days because you saw it as news worthy for the Bulldogs.
It wasn't and still isn't.

As for engaging in a bit of 'don't let the the door hit you' it might have been relevant when he first departed but a performance in a practice game was never a defining moment. I get schadenfreude but I won't be accepting a series of threads with a bitter theme on ex players.

So, it was succinct and I simply posted it to the wrong forum (thanks for putting it into the correct forum). And I think the degree of schadenfreude I (and others here but perhaps not all) engaged in is contextually tempered so it is not just pure reveling in another's misfortunes.

And what!? We won't be allowed to righteously pot the Grifter if he plays poorly for his new bum chum club?

[LostDoggy]

I've been enjoying this thread, why can't it continue for those that are interested?
I realise its not everyone's cup of tea but surely they can avoid it?

[LostDoggy]

I agree that this thread should stay alive. Jones was always a highly controversial player at our club. So much potential, so little real output, it is only natural that we watch and discuss his transition to another team about whether the potential we have been teased with for 6 years is ever realised. I won't lie, I would prefer him to be unsuccessful, but that is more about wanting to stick it up Carlton fans (a lot of my family included), not so much about giving it to Jones. I was very critical of Carlton's recruiting tactics this season, as I saw it as an attempted top up draft for them, when it needed to be a re-build.

[Testekill]

It was a very questionable selection and is absolutely a desperation pick from a man that knows that his team isn't going to crack it.

[mjp]

I'd prefer Jong over Jones any day of the week.

So would I. But what has that got to do with anything?

[Twodogs]

I agree that this thread should stay alive. Jones was always a highly controversial player at our club. So much potential, so little real output, it is only natural that we watch and discuss his transition to another team about whether the potential we have been teased with for 6 years is ever realised. I won't lie, I would prefer him to be unsuccessful, but that is more about wanting to stick it up Carlton fans (a lot of my family included), not so much about giving it to Jones. I was very critical of Carlton's recruiting tactics this season, as I saw it as an attempted top up draft for them, when it needed to be a re-build.


In a way I kind of feel for Liam too. He will find that most of the problems he had with us will only be amplified at Carlton. It's a shame he will miss a chance to take a role in making this forward line work. I would have liked to see him playing in a pocket alongside Boyd for a year.

Saying that though I wasn't thinking that Roberts would be holding down a key forward spot, so I'm not that stressed about not seeing him and Boyd playing together.

[chef]

In a way I kind of feel for Liam too. He will find that most of the problems he had with us will only be amplified at Carlton. It's a shame he will miss a chance to take a role in making this forward line work. I would have liked to see him playing in a pocket alongside Boyd for a year.

Saying that though I wasn't thinking that Roberts would be holding down a key forward spot, so I'm not that stressed about not seeing him and Boyd playing together.

Not me, would rather Stringer and Redpath hanging around Boyd.

[Testekill]

Would Jones have kept on attacking the packs and presenting when things weren't working out for him like Redpath did on Saturday?

[1eyedog]

Can the title be changed? I'm tired of reading Carton Colours. I keep thinking it's a different thread.

[LostDoggy]

Can the title be changed? I'm tired of reading Carton Colours. I keep thinking it's a different thread.

Maybe- Past Players Fortunes?

[LostDoggy]

Maybe- Past Players Fortunes?

Like it, maybe a new thread?

[bulldogtragic]

So Carlton now admit they're rebuilding. Not sure why they didn't know 6 months ago. In that light is Tutty a Tom Young type selection? Not sure trading a high third rounder for Jones makes any more sense now they're 'officially' rebuilding.

[Twodogs]

So Carlton now admit they're rebuilding. Not sure why they didn't know 6 months ago. In that light is Tutty a Tom Young type selection? Not sure trading a high third rounder for Jones makes any more sense now they're 'officially' rebuilding.

I'm pretty sure they are counting Jones as part of the rebuild.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm pretty sure they are counting Jones as part of the rebuild.

Oh.... That seriously didn't occur to me. Just as recruiting Bootsma two years ago wouldn't have occurred to me either.

That timing smacks of politics. Like an opposition who get into government, and then blood their lies early. The club waged a fierce PR war to sign members up until round 3, and after now after they've baked the cheques they tell their members they're not playing finals and are in fact a rebuild. If it was anything other than sport, they'd be smacked by the ACCC for false and misleading advertising.

[Go_Dogs]

So, they're remaining true to their culture BT? ;)

[westdog54]

Oh.... That seriously didn't occur to me. Just as recruiting Bootsma two years ago wouldn't have occurred to me either.

That timing smacks of politics. Like an opposition who get into government, and then blood their lies early. The club waged a fierce PR war to sign members up until round 3, and after now after they've baked the cheques they tell their members they're not playing finals and are in fact a rebuild. If it was anything other than sport, they'd be smacked by the ACCC for false and misleading advertising.

IF they did that, wouldn't that mean that they'd burn up and be unable to be cashed?

Totally agree though. Its so typically Carlton. The weird thing is, so many of their fans were scratching their heads over the pre-season, you wouldn't have thought that so many would just jump on board with it.

[bulldogtragic]

IF they did that, wouldn't that mean that they'd burn up and be unable to be cashed?
.

Would you believe it's a term (cheque baking) similar to money laundering?

If not, it was a typo. :)

[Remi Moses]

Carltons re-build Denis Armfield at 28 gets a game

[Twodogs]

Carltons re-build Denis Armfield at 28 gets a game


He's a very important part of the rebuild.

[jeemak]

Can the title be changed? I'm tired of reading Carton Colours. I keep thinking it's a different thread.

It would be easier if we just started calling Carlton Carton.

[westdog54]

Would you believe it's a term (cheque baking) similar to money laundering?

If not, it was a typo. :)

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i08Tgl_BOFc/Ujh716GEyUI/AAAAAAAAHmE/Pz5mvT-Ig5U/w599-h369-no/Would+you+believe.png

[bulldogtragic]

MS: Would you believe the building is surrounded by Control agents?
Kaos Agent: No I would not.
....
MS: Would you believe it's a boy scout with rabies?

My favourite one :)

[westdog54]

MS: Would you believe the building is surrounded by Control agents?
Kaos Agent: No I would not.
....
MS: Would you believe it's a boy scout with rabies?

My favourite one :)

I thought it ended "How about a boy scout and an Alsatian?"

[bulldogtragic]

I thought it ended "How about a boy scout and an Alsatian?"

Bit of both:

Maxwell Smart: Because at this very moment, this warehouse is being surrounded by one hundred cops with Doberman pinschers. Would you believe it? A hundred cops with Doberman pinschers.
Nicholas Dimente: I find that hard to believe.
Maxwell Smart: Would you believe ten security guards and a bloodhound?
Nicholas Dimente: I don't think so.
Maxwell Smart: How about a Boy Scout with rabies?

:)

[Twodogs]

A Boy Scout with rabies would be as dangerous as ten security guards and a bloodhound. More probably.

[LostDoggy]

A boy scout with rabies is an important part of their rebuild.

[Bulldog Joe]

Just on Jones.
I note that he has retained his place in the team but somehow they have decided to omit Casboult.

I know Levi's kicking is an issue but surely that is more to work with than Jones who really struggles to get the ball.

Perhaps they have looked at the video of his game against Collingwood last year and decided Jones will be BOG.

[Throughandthrough]

Has anyone else noticed the typo in the thread title?

[bornadog]

Has anyone else noticed the typo in the thread title?

Yes and I like it. :D

[G-Mo77]

Has anyone else noticed the typo in the thread title?

Haha. Nice touch.

[Twodogs]

Just on Jones.
I note that he has retained his place in the team but somehow they have decided to omit Casboult.

I know Levi's kicking is an issue but surely that is more to work with than Jones who really struggles to get the ball.

Perhaps they have looked at the video of his game against Collingwood last year and decided Jones will be BOG.

Yep they're that delusional.

[Remi Moses]

Gerard Whately's commentary
" jones gets worked under it"
Blimey never heard that before

[bulldogtragic]

Gerard Whately's commentary
" jones gets worked under it"
Blimey never heard that before

Shame. I want to see his new marking technique we were too stupid to employ with him...

[Twodogs]

Shame. I want to see his new marking technique we were too stupid to employ with him...


He's got to show us the old one first for comparison purposes.

[Greystache]

He's getting the Bronx Cheers in the last quarter, I hope no one puts anything on Facebook!

[Happy Days]

He's got to show us the old one first for comparison purposes.

Even his hangers sucked. Who chest marks a hanger and pulls a face like they've just been winded?

[Remi Moses]

Dermie potted him post game .
Commented how when Carlton switch in the defensive 50 Jones doesn't get on his bike to become an option .
Reckons he was to " stuffed" to present !
What happened to that pre season commando fitness campaign ?

[ledge]

His biggest problem is no tank .. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you try if you haven't got a tank you just haven't got one.
He will make an awesome VFL player though.

[KT31]

His biggest problem is no tank .. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you try if you haven't got a tank you just haven't got one.
He will make an awesome VFL player though.

I agree he has no tank, but his ball judgement and being a squib in a contest also don't help.

Hope he is not reading this thread.:eek:

[azabob]

Reality is 99% of forwards would be struggling to impact the scoreboard with the way Carlton are going.

My other question which I asked earlier on is who exactly would Jones be playing ahead of in our team?

[bulldogtragic]

Reality is 99% of forwards would be struggling to impact the scoreboard with the way Carlton are going.

My other question which I asked earlier on is who exactly would Jones be playing ahead of in our team?

Not sure, Darcy Fort has looked good this year. Tough call.

[ReLoad]

I went to the Carlton vs pies game and was hoping Jones put on a show but sadly not.

Sadly we also saw the worst performance of a team I have seen in a long time. Carlton are clearly shot to bits. The need to move on murthy and Gibbs and do what we are doing.

[bulldogtragic]

I went to the Carlton vs pies game and was hoping Jones put on a show but sadly not.

Sadly we also saw the worst performance of a team I have seen in a long time. Carlton are clearly shot to bits. The need to move on murthy and Gibbs and do what we are doing.

This could be an opportunity for us to raid players under market value. If we liked any of their players then a trade down from pick 10 to Carltons pick 20 would tempt them. Pick 10 for Henderson, Thomas (on much less money), Murphy or Gibbs and pick 20 tempt anyone?

[Rocco Jones]

I think Jones' biggest issue is how he doesn't get the value of competing. His contested mark numbers are good even when he is struggling but I think this also highlights his main issue. He goes into every contest with an all or nothing approach. He launches himself. Sometimes it comes off gloriously and he absolutely owns his opponent. The other 90% of times he doesn't get anywhere near it, ends up on the ground and the back line are on their way to a clear rebound. Liam also just doesn't even engage in a launch or contest when he is too tired or down on himself.

A key example was last night. Collingwood just bombed it out of their defence. It was the type of kick that placed his opponent in between the devil and the deep blue sea. It set him up perfectly to either mark, bring it to ground to his team's advantage and/or legally crunch his opponent. What does he do? Go for the crazy speccy, ending up in him virtually fly kicking his opponent in the back and giving away the free. SO EASY to do the right thing there. Opponent exposed, hold your position, worst case scenario bring it to ground in a dangerous areas. But no, all or nothing. I feel like I am talking about the issues I have with an ex girlfriend! Time to move on, someone else's problem now!

Tom Boyd seems the direct opposite. He almost treats a marking contest like a ruck duel, his default setting seems to make a contest and bring it to ground to our advantage.

[LostDoggy]

Jonesy 8 disposals at 25% efficiency.

How the hell do Carlton get a bag of Friday night games?

[Bulldog4life]

Jonesy 8 disposals at 25% efficiency.

How the hell do Carlton get a bag of Friday night games?

But Mick won't drop him. He has a new marking style. I am still waiting.

[bulldogtragic]

At this point the last pick in the rookie draft looks like good value let alone a high 3rd rounder. You can't say who won this trade yet, but I said they won it at the time, we are winning it now and we can only see ahead.

[Rocco Jones]

At this point the last pick in the rookie draft looks like good value let alone a high 3rd rounder. You can't say who won this trade yet, but I said they won it at the time, we are winning it now and we can only see ahead.

We got Caleb Daniel with the pick right? I am not into judging a a player for a pick based on who we drafted as that involves drafting which has nothing to do with Jones. At the time I definitely thought pick 47 for Jones was unders. Right now I would definitely want Daniel ahead of Jones but I also definitely would not trade Daniel for pick 47 if that all makes sense!!!

[bulldogtragic]

We got Caleb Daniel with the pick right? I am not into judging a a player for a pick based on who we drafted as that involves drafting which has nothing to do with Jones. At the time I definitely thought pick 47 for Jones was unders. Right now I would definitely want Daniel ahead of Jones but I also definitely would not trade Daniel for pick 47 if that all makes sense!!!

Perfect sense Rocco!

[Remi Moses]

This could be an opportunity for us to raid players under market value. If we liked any of their players then a trade down from pick 10 to Carltons pick 20 would tempt them. Pick 10 for Henderson, Thomas (on much less money), Murphy or Gibbs and pick 20 tempt anyone?

Just be prepared for Carlton delusionals wanting overs for their duds.

[bulldogtragic]

Just be prepared for Carlton delusionals wanting overs for their duds.

I think the flip side. The media and public pressure of holding their underperforming players who are not a genuine part of the rebuild and knocking back a top 10 pick would have carlton in meltdown. All we have to do is not pay overs if we want anyone in that rabble of a list.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think one of the reasons we're playing so well is because Liam is no longer in our forward line. As today's game became more and more medieval, I turned to my friend and said "thank god Liam jones isn't out there today"

[bulldogtragic]

I have to admit I had a fear something would click for Liam (from my POV not on him personally). But after 6 games, he's averging one goal, 3 marks and 6 touches a game. He's actually gone backwards this year statistically which I didn't think was going to happen.

I think credit must go to our list manager for being prepared to trade him and getting top 50 pick. I didn't think pick 43 was the high water mark for trading, but again I'm wrong and our lads in LM got it right.

[Dry Rot]

Have said Jones was crap for years and copped shit for my view.

I was right.

[Remi Moses]

That was just such a lack of game sense from Jones

[EasternWest]

Have said Jones was crap for years and copped shit for my view.

I was right.

I'll make sure your medal gets sent in the mail.

[Remi Moses]

Liam's been dropped this week.
Carlton have brought Tutt back :eek:
Deck chairs and Titanic spring to mind

[bulldogtragic]

Liam's been dropped this week.
Carlton have brought Tutt back :eek:
Deck chairs and Titanic spring to mind

Dropped within 7 games when Kruezer, Casboult and every other tall has done nothing. Such a waste of raw talent, but obviously this caper isn't for him at this level. Again, our team must be saying 'no returns' every time Carlton offers the trade back in bizarro world.

[Sedat]

Nice to see Carlton embracing the rebuild - Boekhurst, Buckley, Graham, Whiley and Clem Smith all dropped. Plodders like Carrazzo and Simon White back in.

[ledge]

Did both jones and tutt get two year deals ?
If so they will be spewing on jones already.

[G-Mo77]

Did both jones and tutt get two year deals ?
If so they will be spewing on jones already.

Yep

Jones has gone backwards. He was playing ok early on but he's been awful recently. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to give him a spell.

[bulldogtragic]

Did both jones and tutt get two year deals ?
If so they will be spewing on jones already.

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

[G-Mo77]

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

Yikes

[LostDoggy]

Did both jones and tutt get two year deals ?
If so they will be spewing on jones already.

I thought Carlton gave them both 3 year deals?:p

[bulldogtragic]

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

Yep, 3 years, North of $1.2 million.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought Carlton gave them both 3 year deals?:p

Tutty got two. Liam three. Combined over $1.7 million.

[LostDoggy]

Tutty got two. Liam three. Combined over $1.7 million.

The honeymoon period is officially over!
Carlton are SHIT!!!!! ;)

[azabob]

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

No way?

[1eyedog]

Dropped within 7 games when Kruezer, Casboult and every other tall has done nothing. Such a waste of raw talent, but obviously this caper isn't for him at this level. Again, our team must be saying 'no returns' every time Carlton offers the trade back in bizarro world.

Casboult was a shining light last week with 4 goals and 100 SC points. Carlton need to decide on rebuild or a few wins. They seem stuck somewhere between the two. It may be Malthouse trying to save his career on one end of the rope and who knows who else supporting the rebuild at the other.

[bulldogtragic]

No way?

Three years. Some reports in the media suggested our dollar figure was mid 300's. But Carlton were prepared to spend more knowing we wouldn't up (essentially securing him in the PSD knowing he'd slip if we didn't take pick 46). So, way! :)

[azabob]

Three years. Some reports in the media suggested our dollar figure was mid 300's. But Carlton were prepared to spend more knowing we wouldn't up (essentially securing him in the PSD knowing he'd slip if we didn't take pick 46). So, way! :)

Crazy what clubs will do for talls, i guess we are the perfect example!

[bulldogtragic]

Crazy what clubs will do for talls, i guess we are the perfect example!

Good we were on the other side of it. I double checked some reports and Mulligan's training services looked like a million bucks. I think Mulligan should get onto Bill Gates or whomever owns the Internet and get the articles removed from the Internet asap.

[ledge]

Even our amount was overs ,, they should have come as a buy one get one free deal

[Greystache]

Yep, 3 years, North of $1.2 million.

Astonishing. That's one year less on roughly the same money we're paying Crameri, who's a 4 time leading club goal kicker and has nearly 150 goals in the past 4 years.

[bulldogtragic]

Astonishing. That's one year less on roughly the same money we're paying Crameri, who's a 4 time leading club goal kicker and has nearly 150 goals in the past 4 years.

I believe that's karma for them. For years they've paid financial overs, usually and admittedly under the table, and used that pressure to offer lesser picks at the trade table. So they went to the well of 'we can screw the guys current club, only give them a third rounder or get them for nothing the PSD and all we have to do is throw the player slight overs'.

Ah well, the silver lining is they will be struggling to pay minimum cap so someone has to take it.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I really used to temper my criticism of Jones. I really held firm to his potential, and the fact that he was wearing the red white and blue made me always look for the silver lining. I never vented my spleen or ripped shreds off him.
But now he's wearing the despicable navy blue...................I just chuckle...(and gloat a little)

[Dancin' Douggy]

Crazy what clubs will do for talls, i guess we are the perfect example!

See my 'talls of shame' thread. And to think Casboult was one of the losers we were supposedly chasing.

[jeemak]

Nice to see Carlton embracing the rebuild - Boekhurst, Buckley, Graham, Whiley and Clem Smith all dropped. Plodders like Carrazzo and Simon White back in.

Albeit on the wrong side of 30, I think it's a bit off calling Carrazzo a plodder.

[1eyedog]

Carazzo is a plodder, wasn't a plodder but is a plodder now no question.

[Greystache]

Albeit on the wrong side of 30, I think it's a bit off calling Carrazzo a plodder.

Isn't Carrazzo Italian for turns it over by foot?

[jeemak]

Carazzo is a plodder, wasn't a plodder but is a plodder now no question.

So are we calling players at the end of their careers plodders as a rule now?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=1461&tid2=12&pid2=504&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

[merantau]

I really used to temper my criticism of Jones. I really held firm to his potential, and the fact that he was wearing the red white and blue made me always look for the silver lining. I never vented my spleen or ripped shreds off him.
But now he's wearing the despicable navy blue...................I just chuckle...(and gloat a little)
I gloat too ... And, I was very pleased to see Jones is still unable to kick straight and, in particular, to kick the pressure goal. Saw him hit the post a few weeks back when his team REALLY needed a goal. He cruelled us a number of times doing that.

[Ghost Dog]

Isn't Carrazzo Italian for turns it over by foot?

I seem to remember that joke before on the boards. But it's still funny :)

[Ghost Dog]

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

Holy Smoke. Over the top overs.

[kruder]

The second hand card yard that is Carlton keeps me warm at night! Has anyone seen Boekhurst play? It wasn't a good sign when he wasn't in the side round one considering they spent a high pick on him and he was already 21. Quick fix again Mick?

[kruder]

The second hand card yard that is Carlton keeps me warm at night! Has anyone seen Boekhurst play? It wasn't a good sign when he wasn't in the side round one considering they spent a high pick on him and he was already 21. Quick fix again Mick?

car yard!

[Remi Moses]

Good lord , Jones on 400 large per year?
My God !!;)
What next, Tutt on 500?

[1eyedog]

So are we calling players at the end of their careers plodders as a rule now?

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=1461&tid2=12&pid2=504&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

No just on current output. Great players in their day but they've really dropped off. Carazzo always had low hurt factor.

[jeemak]

No just on current output. Great players in their day but they've really dropped off. Carazzo always had low hurt factor.

With the ball I agree, but he did good things for the Carlton midfield in his defencive and feeding work. With Judd and Murphy running through there a lot of heavy lifting needed to be done, and he did it well.

[Remi Moses]

Carazzo's had a pretty handy AFL career, but I guess you'd have to question there selections.
For a team allegedly in a rebuild playing the likes of Carazzo and dropping Nick Graham on 10 minutes is confusing .
They're all over the shop

[KT31]

Jones got 3 didn't he? $400,000 per year or so?

His manager should get manager of the year if this is the case.
Jones should be paying them and then repay whatever we paid him for the privilege of playing AFL.
Prize Spud when he started and roasted spud now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anyone willing to take a nibble on Yarran come year's end? Will be up for grabs.

Obviously a supremely talented player, but unquestionably has under delivered. Seems half back is his best position - haven't seen him impact many games as a forward, whilst he doesn't have the tank for midfield (or arguably the defensive mindset).

There's a lot of cons about going after Yarran, but buying when his stocks are at their lowest could be savvy. Not sure we need him anyway, given our half backs look OK, but worth asking the question.

[jeemak]

Anyone willing to take a nibble on Yarran come year's end? Will be up for grabs.

Obviously a supremely talented player, but unquestionably has under delivered. Seems half back is his best position - haven't seen him impact many games as a forward, whilst he doesn't have the tank for midfield (or arguably the defensive mindset).

There's a lot of cons about going after Yarran, but buying when his stocks are at their lowest could be savvy. Not sure we need him anyway, given our half backs look OK, but worth asking the question.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. Our club needs all the talent it can get, and anyone that can run and deliver as well as Yarran can when he's at his best gets a spot in any premiership side. No questions asked.

At 24 he's had his career judged in the same way a guy who's finishing his career would. All of the commentary seems to revolve around him having reached his limits. I call BS on that. He has talent and run to burn, and I'd give up a lot to get him to our club.

[Remi Moses]

His lack of any defensive side worries me greatly . Gets a bit of the hang dog look when Carlton struggle .

[1eyedog]

His lack of any defensive side worries me greatly . Gets a bit of the hang dog look when Carlton struggle .

Agreed. Good in a good side but very ordinary in a bad one. But, we will be a very good side...

[Greystache]

It's a good question TBB and I can't really make my mind up. He has talent but lacks heart, he provides great attack but no defence. Watching the way Hunter stood out on the weekend makes me think Yarran wouldn't fit in with the way we want to play as he is now. The big question is do we think we can change him?

[Twodogs]

It's a good question TBB and I can't really make my mind up. He has talent but lacks heart, he provides great attack but no defence. Watching the way Hunter stood out on the weekend makes me think Yarran wouldn't fit in with the way we want to play as he is now. The big question is do we think we can change him?


Hunter is the first player I thought of when Yarran was mentioned. I'd love his running and kicking but I see him standing and watching all too often.

[bulldogtragic]

Yarran could be a goer. If our pick is around 10 and Carltons next is 20. I would like to see if there's a player that makes that downgrade worth it. Yarran and 20 for 10. That would interest them, it would interest me if Carlisle or Talia were Ungetable. Pick 20 a fringe player for May or similar. Kruezer or Luenberger as a free agent. I like the sound of this. Specifically on Yarran, my criticism is he's a down hill skier. But every recent premiership team has one ie. Cyril on one leg last year, Jetta etc. If we are on the climb up the mountain I can live with a down hill skier who would be the fastest on the list, flexible-ish and good by foot who hasn't delivered his potential yet.

Or 10 and Minson for Henderson & Yarran (and a ruck FA). It would allow them to take the compo for Kruezer which could be pick 2 on a 4 year $500,000 offer.

[Ozza]

It's a good question TBB and I can't really make my mind up. He has talent but lacks heart, he provides great attack but no defence. Watching the way Hunter stood out on the weekend makes me think Yarran wouldn't fit in with the way we want to play as he is now. The big question is do we think we can change him?

Its a very good point you're picking up on regarding Hunter. Perhaps its an early call - given he's only been in for a half a game. But last week I was thinking during the game "Does Hunter really fit into the way we are wanting to play?".

[Bulldog4life]

Yarran could be a goer. If our pick is around 10 and Carltons next is 20. I would like to see if there's a player that makes that downgrade worth it. Yarran and 20 for 10. That would interest them, it would interest me if Carlisle or Talia were Ungetable. Pick 20 a fringe player for May or similar. Kruezer or Luenberger as a free agent. I like the sound of this. Specifically on Yarran, my criticism is he's a down hill skier. But every recent premiership team has one ie. Cyril on one leg last year, Jetta etc. If we are on the climb up the mountain I can live with a down hill skier who would be the fastest on the list, flexible-ish and good by foot who hasn't delivered his potential yet.

Or 10 and Minson for Henderson & Yarran (and a ruck FA). It would allow them to take the compo for Kruezer which could be pick 2 on a 4 year $500,000 offer.

Good points BT but can the coach live with one down hill skier?

[1eyedog]

With the ball I agree, but he did good things for the Carlton midfield in his defencive and feeding work. With Judd and Murphy running through there a lot of heavy lifting needed to be done, and he did it well.

Agreed he was a very effective player and saw a lot of ball a few years back. All past tense now however. Like most here I don't really care what Carlton do to be honest but they are stuck in a half-minded rebuild at the moment. Geez the big side struggle to admit they're in rebuild mode.

Carazzo has had a fair year but surely it's time to move him on, it's one thing to put his stats up against another great servant in Cross but against a lot of younger kids in the AFL they are fairly average.

Carlton have to play their kids, they need a major list shake and need to start establishing now which ones are worth holding onto and which ones need to be cut. In this, I understand why Jones got a 6 week stint.

[Ozza]

Right now, Yarran would be considered by most to be a superior running half back to Johannisen.
Given JJ's improvement this season - if he continues to improve, then Yarran won't be the superior half back for too much longer.
Therefore I don't see a real need to be looking into Yarran. And that even excludes the questions over his attitude.

[bulldogtragic]

Good points BT but can the coach live with one down hill skier?

I think so in a very good team. Everyone knows my man love for my man Nathan Eagleton. When we were either side of success he was first criticised when we performed poorly, but with a good team around him his run, speed, carry and long kicking were a real weapon. Much like Rioli, Jetta etc are now. History says they might not play the best games in the biggest games, but I think theyre important in winning games through the year and looking at our list elite foot speed is something we lack. Most teams have such a player and I think in a positive, winning environment Yarran's confidence may rise to the top. Under Malthouse he's gone backwards fast and steady. If our recruiters think he hasn't hit his ceiling and that there's a role for him potentially to play I would back that decision at the right price, despite the question marks of inside ball and/or softness and/or skier.

[bornadog]

Malthouse standing by Jones despite demotion to VFL

CARLTON coach Mick Malthouse expected Liam Jones to pick up the Blues' forward structures more quickly after the former Western Bulldog was one of six players dropped for Saturday's clash against Greater Western Sydney.


Jones' struggles in front of goal this year were exemplified by a crucial miss late in the final quarter of last weekend's shock loss to Brisbane, when he failed to make the distance from 40 metres out.


The 24-year-old has managed just six goals in his six appearances this year, but Malthouse said Jones' form had not been as bad as had been made out by some critics.

link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-15/malthouse-standing-by-jones-despite-demotion-to-vfl)

[bulldogtragic]

link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-15/malthouse-standing-by-jones-despite-demotion-to-vfl)

What else can he say? There's 2.5 years left on his contract.

[Maddog37]

Get Yarran, play him forward, watch him shine.

[Twodogs]

link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-15/malthouse-standing-by-jones-despite-demotion-to-vfl)


If he's standing by him does that mean that Mick is off to coach the twos?

[LostDoggy]

If he's standing by him does that mean that Mick is off to coach the twos?

Kernahan must have sang Mick some advice!

[Remi Moses]

Right now, Yarran would be considered by most to be a superior running half back to Johannisen.
Given JJ's improvement this season - if he continues to improve, then Yarran won't be the superior half back for too much longer.
Therefore I don't see a real need to be looking into Yarran. And that even excludes the questions over his attitude.

Great post . JJ's trajectory is on the up, and he's similar type to Yarran.
I also hate how happy Yarran looks when they get beat.
The after match love fest annoys me.

[ledge]

Interesting Jones dropped after 6 games, maybe Carlton are wanting to win a VFL flag now and say "look our kids are coming on like the western bulldogs"

[Sedat]

Get Yarran, play him forward, watch him shine.
Can he be reprogrammed to be one of the 'Men of Mayhem' in our forward 50?

I'm really torn on Yarran. He has oodles of natural talent and pace, but the modern game demands 2-way intensity. Does he have it in him to improve significantly in this area?

[Twodogs]

Can he be reprogrammed to be one of the 'Men of Mayhem' in our forward 50?

I'm really torn on Yarran. He has oodles of natural talent and pace, but the modern game demands 2-way intensity. Does he have it in him to improve significantly in this area?

I can't recall a lot of players adding that aspect to their game after as many years in the system as Yarran has been. Then again get him out of his comfort zone at Carlton and into a new environment that will challenge him and he might.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's a good question TBB and I can't really make my mind up. He has talent but lacks heart, he provides great attack but no defence. Watching the way Hunter stood out on the weekend makes me think Yarran wouldn't fit in with the way we want to play as he is now. The big question is do we think we can change him?

It's a tough call. Given Carlton's likely asking price, you'd probably err on the side of caution. Chances are he delivers much of the same. An average side (as Carlton is now) can't carry him, a very good side could. For mine - he's similar to Higgins. Shaun suddenly looks a quality player again, but it's because he's playing in a good side - he's allowed to 'fade' in and out of games without the result really depending on him. Getting Yarran would be a similar scenario.

I do think Yarran is an upgrade on Hunter though. He's much more powerful through the hips, quicker and a better kick.

Undecided too. Hard to judge from the outside, you'd need to speak with him to find out his values/ambitions re: footy.

[Go_Dogs]

I really like a lot of what Yarran can do as a player, but it's a no for me.

PS - Jones on $400k? I'm shocked.

[bornadog]

I really like a lot of what Yarran can do as a player, but it's a no for me.

PS - Jones on $400k? I'm shocked.
i wonder where those dollars came from? I haven't seen any reports on what Carlton paid

[Go_Dogs]

i wonder where those dollars came from? I haven't seen any reports on what Carlton paid

It just doesn't quite resonate with me, but then again, I guess it's not significantly more than most 24 year old key forwards would be on, even the ones who haven't become consistent performers.

[bulldogtragic]

It just doesn't quite resonate with me, but then again, I guess it's not significantly more than most 24 year old key forwards would be on, even the ones who haven't become consistent performers.

Not only did it need to be higher than our offer, it needed to be high enough that if he fell to the PSD the price tag would mean he slipped past a few clubs needing a KPF. He was no 1 for contested marks and obviously they thought they could transform him into a gun player. It's about market rate really.

[ledge]

Not sure if he played today in the seconds , didn't kick any goals if he did

[bulldogtragic]

A recalled Jones with 5 touches, 1 tackle and no scores to 3/4 time... I'm seriously still frustrated for him, when you get dropped and then recalled just show anything Liam, anything whatsoever...

[comrade]

A recalled Jones with 5 touches, 1 tackle and no scores to 3/4 time... I'm seriously still frustrated for him, when you get dropped and then recalled just show anything Liam, anything whatsoever...

On a positive note, Tutt has been adequate. Copped a few bone crunching tackles, too.

[bulldogtragic]

On a positive note, Tutt has been adequate. Copped a few bone crunching tackles, too.

I think he made a good call to leave, I'm not sure why we wanted to keep him. I think regular games might be good for him.

[ledge]

He gets caught a lot though and has no kind of build to even break a tackle, he runs he tries but I don't think he is up to it.

[Bulldog Joe]

A recalled Jones with 5 touches, 1 tackle and no scores to 3/4 time... I'm seriously still frustrated for him, when you get dropped and then recalled just show anything Liam, anything whatsoever...

In could only bear watching for the first half, but Jones did a couple of good things. Had a big influence on a the Bulldog goal kicked by Tutt. That was Everitt along the wing long to Jones in the square. Jones brought the ball to ground and tapped it out to Tutt for a goal.

[azabob]

A recalled Jones with 5 touches, 1 tackle and no scores to 3/4 time... I'm seriously still frustrated for him, when you get dropped and then recalled just show anything Liam, anything whatsoever...


What exactly do you expect him to show when they lose by 13 odd goals?

[Twodogs]

In could only bear watching for the first half, but Jones did a couple of good things. Had a big influence on a the Bulldog goal kicked by Tutt. That was Everitt along the wing long to Jones in the square. Jones brought the ball to ground and tapped it out to Tutt for a goal.

And Malthouse coached it!

[Ghost Dog]

Lacks belief in himself. Panics, doesn't take full responsibility. I think Mick can show him the kind of care to get him to his potential, if he is allowed to stay that long, and if Carlton is prepared to persist with Jones.

[Twodogs]

Lacks belief in himself. Panics, doesn't take full responsibility. I think Mick can show him the kind of care to get him to his potential, if he is allowed to stay that long, and if Carlton is prepared to persist with Jones.

He has a three year contract on good money. He will see out the three years at least.

[Ghost Dog]

He has a three year contract on good money. He will see out the three years at least.

Yep - was referring to Mick, in terms of stay or not. But for Jones, he may end up a very good VFL player.
When he went for his set shot, I said to my Dad, ' Watch this' and sure enough, sprayed. A player at that level
must be able to record a score. The only thing he does well in the forward line is create a contest, but never really looks like marking it.
That whole 'flying cat' leap under the ball looked very familiar to me last night. Is he being pushed under the ball or just flailing about with a mistimed leap?

[Twodogs]

Yep - was referring to Mick, in terms of stay or not. But for Jones, he may end up a very good VFL player.
When he went for his set shot, I said to my Dad, ' Watch this' and sure enough, sprayed. A player at that level
must be able to record a score. The only thing he does well in the forward line is create a contest, but never really looks like marking it.
That whole 'flying cat' leap under the ball looked very familiar to me last night. Is he being pushed under the ball or just flailing about with a mistimed leap?


My bad. Mick has the mark of Cain on his forehead for sure. He's at war with his own administration over what the direction of the team is and the team obviously have no direction. Mick is trying to manufacture an "us against the rest of the world" mentality with his players but his players couldn't care less. And that leaves Mick against the rest of the world.

[Ghost Dog]

My bad. Mick has the mark of Cain on his forehead for sure. He's at war with his own administration over what the direction of the team is and the team obviously have no direction. Mick is trying to manufacture an "us against the rest of the world" mentality with his players but his players couldn't care less. And that leaves Mick against the rest of the world.

I'm not so sure about that. I watched the game really carefully last night. Cameron Wood did a good job I thought and certainly put his heart into it. Curnow was massive. Was fun watching Selwood have a good sulk. They had plenty of 50 entries but don't have much of a forward line. They were wasteful, so woeful with set shots and tackles. Jones certainly tries and wants to be involved but lacks self belief.

[ledge]

I watched and thought Simpson is a dead set goer and good mark.

[LostDoggy]

Jones can be guaranteed 9 possies per game, must be his average surely.

[LostDoggy]

Tutt's doing alright..

[G-Mo77]

I watched and thought Simpson is a dead set goer and good mark.

Really underrated player.

On Jones you don't want to get burned by a player going to another club but I really feel for him. I do have a soft spot for him especially after being one of our VFL GF heroes but he is playing for Carlton and I still can't help feeling a little sorry for him and hope he does start playing good footy. What confidence he had seems completely gone. It'd take a huge job to dig himself out of this hole he's in.

I'll admit I was one who thought losing Jones would hurt us. I was waaaaay off the mark there.

[Twodogs]

Really underrated player.

On Jones you don't want to get burned by a player going to another club but I really feel for him. I do have a soft spot for him especially after being one of our VFL GF heroes but he is playing for Carlton and I still can't help feeling a little sorry for him and hope he does start playing good footy. What confidence he had seems completely gone. It'd take a huge job to dig himself out of this hole he's in.

I'll admit I was one who thought losing Jones would hurt us. I was waaaaay off the mark there.

He will always be one of those. And one of the players who really changed the momentum of the game.

Like a few others maybe he might have been playing better footy with us this season. He would have been another player the opposition had to worry about and who might get of the leash if not manned up.

But he 3 got years on good money and that sort of security is gold to a player. Good luck to him.

[Ozza]

Was really pleased to see Tutt go alright on Friday night. He's one of our 'exes' that I'd like to see succeed somewhat.

Poor old Jonesy....I feel nervous watching him. I don't think it would be great fun to be him on a footy field at the moment.

[bornadog]

Jones said it was Malthouse who convinced him to go to Carlton and he wanted to play under his coaching.