2015 and beyond.......ruck

[Avoid the rush]

Who is going to ruck for us this season and beyond. I like to be a SUPPORTER and I reckon big Wilbur tries like anything BUT.....11 seasons-179 games-Average disposals 11, average hitouts 21, average marks 2.5, and only average 7 goals per season. I think it's time to try something different. Minson, Cordy, Campbell, Redpath, Roughead, Boyd or any combination of these players. I hope Boyd, if he rucks at all, does it only on the forward line.
My opinion is that we throw Cordy into the centre bounce and let him sink or swim. Maybe have Wil on standby on the bench but give Cordy four or five weeks, one out, and give him most of the game and we will probably find out one way or another if he can cut the mustard. I reckon Campbell is still a bit raw, but think he can be a player maybe with one more year in the twos.
Whattayareckon?????

[Mofra]

I don't think we can afford to have two of Cordy, Campbell and Will play while we have both Redpath & Boyd in the forwardline.

Redpath & Boyd can pinch hit with Will without sacrificing a spot in the team for a running type which we sorely need. As the season wears on Campbell& Cordy will get opportunities, I can't see Boyd playing the full year and Minno & Redpath will also be rested at times

[Testekill]

Playing Cordy as the number one ruck is a bad idea, he's the perfect example of a second ruck who can play up forward when not rucking. He has a pretty great 2014 in the VFL rotating with Campbell but when he had to go as number one he got beaten badly by more experienced rucks like Hale.

[bornadog]

Who is going to ruck for us this season and beyond. I like to be a SUPPORTER and I reckon big Wilbur tries like anything BUT.....11 seasons-179 games-Average disposals 11, average hitouts 21, average marks 2.5, and only average 7 goals per season. I think it's time to try something different. Minson, Cordy, Campbell, Redpath, Roughead, Boyd or any combination of these players. I hope Boyd, if he rucks at all, does it only on the forward line.
My opinion is that we throw Cordy into the centre bounce and let him sink or swim. Maybe have Wil on standby on the bench but give Cordy four or five weeks, one out, and give him most of the game and we will probably find out one way or another if he can cut the mustard. I reckon Campbell is still a bit raw, but think he can be a player maybe with one more year in the twos.
Whattayareckon?????

Will has only been number one ruck for the past 3 years and his average hit outs are way higher than the figures you quote. In fact he has been averaging over 35 with a high of 39 in his AA year. If you look at total hit outs I think in his AA year he either broke the record for total hit outs or was very close to the all time high. The other important fact is he his the number one clearance ruckman in the AFL.

Yes he has some short comings such as his marking around the ground and when he rests in the forward pocket, but he is still extremely valuable to the team especially at stoppages.

Cordy and Campbell still have a long way to go to be the number one ruck, so in the meantime they must play second fiddle to Will.

[Ozza]

Dependant on whether Campbell's conditioning is seen by the club as up to scratch (noting he missed some periods of the pre-season injured/recovering), I would see him as our best way forward in the no.1 ruck role.

Here's a fun fact about bulldogs ruckman....Will Minson is our leading ruckman in terms of total, and average hit outs - since the stat has been recorded.

[LostDoggy]

I love big Will but he isn't going to be there when we are a threat at a premiership, I say give the games to Campbell and Cordy.

[GVGjr]

I love big Will but he isn't going to be there when we are a threat at a premiership, I say give the games to Campbell and Cordy.

Do we do the same with Murphy, M.Boyd, Morris and Picken? I'd hope not

My view is that we select teams on form and at the moment Wilbur is the best of our ruckman. If Campbell or Cordy perform better then Minson needs to be dropped. Like others have mentioned, it's going to be hard to select another ruckman to partner him so at the moment if we are picking the best team both Redpath and T.Boyd need to step up and help him from time to time.

Now if there was a way to free up Roughead to do some ruck work it would be worth considering.

[Remi Moses]

I think with the sub rule and three on the bench your ruck needs another string to his bow,and unfortunately Will doesn't.
You can throw Campbell ( better Mark ) and Cordy forward .

[Remi Moses]

Dependant on whether Campbell's conditioning is seen by the club as up to scratch (noting he missed some periods of the pre-season injured/recovering), I would see him as our best way forward in the no.1 ruck role.

Here's a fun fact about bulldogs ruckman....Will Minson is our leading ruckman in terms of total, and average hit outs - since the stat has been recorded.
Unless it's a hit out to advantage its a bit of a useless stat. Minson was gifted way to many games last season, and thought Campbell and Cordy should have played more .

[Greystache]

Unless it's a hit out to advantage its a bit of a useless stat. Minson was gifted way to many games last season, and thought Campbell and Cordy should have played more .

He also rucked 90% of game time in a team who's only strategy was to force never ending stoppages. Minson could be routinely beaten and still lead the league in hitouts due purely to volume.

The whole concept of hitouts as statistical proof of a ruckman's performance is ridiculous. A hitout is a useless stat, and only counting the times a generic hit goes to a team mate but not counting the times you hit it directly to the opposition is even more stupid.

A ruckman could contest 1000 ball ups, win 400, hit 300 directly to the opposition, and be credited with the most "hitouts to advantage" in the AFL because no other ruckman contested anywhere near as many contests. What's even more obsurd is some people will point to hitouts and hitouts to advantage as proof what a great season that player had.

[Bulldog Joe]

He also rucked 90% of game time in a team who's only strategy was to force never ending stoppages. Minson could be routinely beaten and still lead the league in hitouts due purely to volume.

The whole concept of hitouts as statistical proof of a ruckman's performance is ridiculous. A hitout is a useless stat, and only counting the times a generic hit goes to a team mate but not counting the times you hit it directly to the opposition is even more stupid.

A ruckman could contest 1000 ball ups, win 400, hit 300 directly to the opposition, and be credited with the most "hitouts to advantage" in the AFL because no other ruckman contested anywhere near as many contests. What's even more obsurd is some people will point to hitouts and hitouts to advantage as proof what a great season that player had.

I do agree that the stats used for ruckman are totally deficient.

To be meaningful, you need to know percentage of team clearances won per ruckman. A ruckman could be very effective just negating their opponent and ensuring advantage through the clearance.

Would also be good to have a stat based on scores and scoring chains from clearances based on a the ruck contests.

[bornadog]

He also rucked 90% of game time in a team who's only strategy was to force never ending stoppages. Minson could be routinely beaten and still lead the league in hitouts due purely to volume.

The whole concept of hitouts as statistical proof of a ruckman's performance is ridiculous. A hitout is a useless stat, and only counting the times a generic hit goes to a team mate but not counting the times you hit it directly to the opposition is even more stupid.

A ruckman could contest 1000 ball ups, win 400, hit 300 directly to the opposition, and be credited with the most "hitouts to advantage" in the AFL because no other ruckman contested anywhere near as many contests. What's even more obsurd is some people will point to hitouts and hitouts to advantage as proof what a great season that player had.

As I mentioned in my post you have to look at clearances as well. Will is number one in clearances and number one in stoppages for the top ten ruckman in the AFL. That is where his skills lie. He is also second in average contested possessions.

[LostDoggy]

Don't throw Will out with the bath water. He may have had a poor year last year, shouldering the ruck almost entirely on his own, and his pre-season performances may be seen to be lacklustre, but he's a seasoned professional. I'm sure he's just in 'hitout' mode (pardon the pun).

He's not a modern day entertaining ruckman like a Ryder or Nic Nat. He never will be. He's a brute of a ruckman who'll back up week after week and give you the same performance 9 times out of ten.

The second ruckman is a position that needs to be developed (as Will was with Darcy and Hudson), but it's an emerging role, not a transitional year just yet.

[Mofra]

As I mentioned in my post you have to look at clearances as well. Will is number one in clearances and number one in stoppages for the top ten ruckman in the AFL. That is where his skills lie. He is also second in average contested possessions.
These are arguably the most important stats for a ruckman - although the unstated stuff (blocking for teammates, protecting mids etc) is also highly important.

I doubt Campbell and Cordy can get near Will's running capacity and the fact he does it largely solo at AFL level will little support week in, week out is a credit to him. I think we're a little hard on Will at times and a big, experienced body in a young side that has just lost its best player for the season who also happens to be its best inside midfielder is vital.

[bornadog]

The big men train:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2015-03-17/big-men-train-hard

[FrediKanoute]

Interesting from the footage that Cordy continually mistimed the jumps - not a natural ruckman. He is almost an oversized mid - so skinny

[Remi Moses]

Don't throw Will out with the bath water. He may have had a poor year last year, shouldering the ruck almost entirely on his own, and his pre-season performances may be seen to be lacklustre, but he's a seasoned professional. I'm sure he's just in 'hitout' mode (pardon the pun).

He's not a modern day entertaining ruckman like a Ryder or Nic Nat. He never will be. He's a brute of a ruckman who'll back up week after week and give you the same performance 9 times out of ten.

The second ruckman is a position that needs to be developed (as Will was with Darcy and Hudson), but it's an emerging role, not a transitional year just yet.

There's the issue in a nutshell. Will performs best when rucking solo( AA selection testifys that) but when not rucking where does he play? They literally have to ruck him all day.