Cap'n Bob says: This group better than any I've seen...

[bulldogtragic]

Young Dogs better than any I've seen: Murphy
Nick Bowen March 25, 2015 4:11 PM

Mitch Wallis is among an emerging group of young Bulldogs



THE WESTERN Bulldogs' exciting batch of youngsters is "a fair way" better than the group that carried the club to three consecutive preliminary final appearances, captain Robert Murphy says.

Murphy is well placed to make the call, having been one of the Bulldogs drafted in the late 1990s-early 2000s who went on to form the nucleus of Rodney Eade's 2008-10 preliminary final teams.

The Bulldogs skipper's contemporaries included rare talents such as Daniel Giansiracusa, Lindsay Gilbee, Will Minson, Adam Cooney and Ryan Griffen.

Murphy sees similarities between that group and the youngsters the Bulldogs have unearthed in recent years, but has no doubt today's pups are better placed for sustained on-field success.

"The attitude of it, of a young group of guys shaping the club, I think that's where I've seen the similarities," Murphy said at the AFL captains' day on Wednesday.

"As far as talent goes they're a lot better than what my group were – by a far way."

After taking father-son selections Mitch Wallis and Tom Liberatore at the end of 2010, the Bulldogs have since drafted elite young players such as Jake Stringer, Jack Macrae, Nathan Hrovat and Marcus Bontempelli, while snaring 2013's No.1 pick Tom Boyd from Greater Western Sydney in a trade last year.

Bontempelli has shown no signs this pre-season that he will suffer from the second-year blues in 2015 after finishing runner-up in last year's NAB AFL Rising Star award.

The 192cm midfielder rounded off his NAB Challenge campaign with an outstanding performance against Collingwood last Saturday night, finishing with 29 possessions, three goals and nine tackles.

Murphy joked the Bulldogs might be able to "squeeze" Bontempelli into their team for next Saturday night's round one clash against West Coast, conceding the 19-year-old was one of the most exciting young talents he had seen.

But the Bulldogs skipper was reluctant to single Bontempelli out from the rest of his "children".

"I've got to say he's part of a batch really of some players that have come into the club in the last three years who I'm as sure as I can be will be around for a long, long time," Murphy said.

"They're exceptional talents and love the club which is just as important."

Murphy was confident Boyd would not be affected by any outside expectations that came with the multi-million-dollar seven-year contract he signed with the Dogs.

"Clearly from the outside it's (a) high-profile big contract, I can understand that," Murphy said.

"I do have to remind myself that he is only 19 because he's such a mature young guy and the thing that we're trying to do – which all clubs do with their young players – (is get him) playing [his] role for the team which I know is not the sexiest quote in the world.

"But he's fully embraced that and I think he's really feeling a part of it.

"He's going to be around for a long, long time and he's attacked it the way we would have hoped."

From afl.com.au

Twitter: @AFL_Nick

[boydogs]

He's dead right. Guys like Hahn, Gia, Hargrave were pretty limited players but mainstays of our prelim sides

[Remi Moses]

Couldn't agree more . This is this best bunch of kids I've seen pull on a guernsey

[Danny the snakeman]

He's hardly going to say their crap.

[Webby]

He's hardly going to say their crap.

That's true, but he doesn't have to say anything, either. And looking at them man for man, I think this is the most talented batch of potential genuine A-graders that we've ever had. (That we're a strong chance of retaining, anyway.)

Bonti - trying to keep a lid on this, but we are certainly the envy of the competition for having him. Which says everything.
Macrae - pure class
Stringer - could be anything. Upside is limitless
Boyd - will be at the very least an A grade ruck/forward
Libba - arguably already an a grade inside mid

I think that around two years from now, the five players above will be genuine top echelon. That's enough to build a premiership team around. Now we have to just develop the next level of support players.

I really can't remember more than three to four genuine A graders being on our list at the same time at peak ages.

Hawkins, Beasley, Hardie and Royal were all in that space in 84 to early 86. Unfortunately Beeza was coming towards the end when Doug did his knee and Hardie fell out with Malthouse. They had a year and a bit together without injury and were 2 kicks from a GF. Had they had a 5th A grader amongst them and three injury-free years together, they could have done anything.

We could have had Hawkins, Quinlan, Templeton, Dempsey, Round, Wilson and maybe even Beasley n the early 80's - had we not been unlucky with injury and been in such financial and administrative strife.

Point is, we now have potentially five of them together. If we ca get them to peak together for three to five years, we're very dry close.

Throughout the past 40-60 years, with no salary caps and being a poorer club, we simply haven't been able to afford to hold onto A grade players. Today, however, with a draft and salary cap, we are a strong chance. Therefore I've been waiting for us to go through a period of shooting the lights out in consecutive drafts.

And over the past four very tough years, I think we've done it. Now add a good coach, momentum, development, further strong drafting and an influx of free agents who will be keen to play alongside Bonti, Libba, Macrae, Boyd etc. for a club on the verge of breaking the biggest drought in the game and we are EXTREMELY close to the mark.

This is what the next five years hold for us. We are on the verge of a LOT of fun over the next few years.

[whythelongface]

Good points Webby, but it is also the depth of the squad that determines the overall quality. We have the A-graders that you have mentioned but we also have the likes of Wallis, Dahlhaus, Hrovat, Crameri, Roughead, Wood, Stevens, who are still young and proven that they can play AFL level and then the unknowns such as Jong, Grant, Redpath, Honeychurch, Talia, JJ, Hunter, Campbell - who have shown some ability at this level. Overall this is an excellent list with a lot of ability and the best part about it is that they are all young - the oldest of this lot is around 26 (Crameri). That is 19 potential quality players 26 or under - players like Cordy still have a long way to go but there are signs.

On top of this are last year's recruits - potentially 1 or 2 good players and if we pick up a couple of very good players in the next two drafts we will have a list of 22 to 26 potential quality players with a lot of depth.

The future is certainly looking bright for our team.

[Ghost Dog]

It's all relative though. Because of the limited resources and not having list managers, stuff like that, I think we did pretty well back then.

[Happy Days]

He's dead right. Guys like Hahn, Gia, Hargrave were pretty limited players but mainstays of our prelim sides

I agree with Murphy but wow that's harsh on Gia and Shaggy.

[Mofra]

He's right - but I'm worried about how Gold Coast's list looks.
They are the complete package.

I still think we'll get someone from our 2014 draft who will be close to A grade - Webb looks like he has all the tricks and is a good size. Given we'll have a high draft pick this year (most likely) there will be at least one more top line talent on our list by next year too.

[Greystache]

That's true, but he doesn't have to say anything, either. And looking at them man for man, I think this is the most talented batch of potential genuine A-graders that we've ever had. (That we're a strong chance of retaining, anyway.)

Bonti - trying to keep a lid on this, but we are certainly the envy of the competition for having him. Which says everything.
Macrae - pure class
Stringer - could be anything. Upside is limitless
Boyd - will be at the very least an A grade ruck/forward
Libba - arguably already an a grade inside mid

I think that around two years from now, the five players above will be genuine top echelon. That's enough to build a premiership team around. Now we have to just develop the next level of support players.

I really can't remember more than three to four genuine A graders being on our list at the same time at peak ages.

If Clay Smith can come back from his knee injuries I'd put him close to that group as well. He's an elite inside midfielder who can kick goals when fit.

[LostDoggy]

That's true, but he doesn't have to say anything, either. And looking at them man for man, I think this is the most talented batch of potential genuine A-graders that we've ever had. (That we're a strong chance of retaining, anyway.)

Bonti - trying to keep a lid on this, but we are certainly the envy of the competition for having him. Which says everything.
Macrae - pure class
Stringer - could be anything. Upside is limitless
Boyd - will be at the very least an A grade ruck/forward
Libba - arguably already an a grade inside mid

I think that around two years from now, the five players above will be genuine top echelon. That's enough to build a premiership team around. Now we have to just develop the next level of support players.

I really can't remember more than three to four genuine A graders being on our list at the same time at peak ages.

Hawkins, Beasley, Hardie and Royal were all in that space in 84 to early 86. Unfortunately Beeza was coming towards the end when Doug did his knee and Hardie fell out with Malthouse. They had a year and a bit together without injury and were 2 kicks from a GF. Had they had a 5th A grader amongst them and three injury-free years together, they could have done anything.

We could have had Hawkins, Quinlan, Templeton, Dempsey, Round, Wilson and maybe even Beasley n the early 80's - had we not been unlucky with injury and been in such financial and administrative strife.

Point is, we now have potentially five of them together. If we ca get them to peak together for three to five years, we're very dry close.

Throughout the past 40-60 years, with no salary caps and being a poorer club, we simply haven't been able to afford to hold onto A grade players. Today, however, with a draft and salary cap, we are a strong chance. Therefore I've been waiting for us to go through a period of shooting the lights out in consecutive drafts.

And over the past four very tough years, I think we've done it. Now add a good coach, momentum, development, further strong drafting and an influx of free agents who will be keen to play alongside Bonti, Libba, Macrae, Boyd etc. for a club on the verge of breaking the biggest drought in the game and we are EXTREMELY close to the mark.

This is what the next five years hold for us. We are on the verge of a LOT of fun over the next few years.


Well put and I too believe we are on the verge......of running smack bang into two freight trains.

[jeemak]

whythelongface touches on a good point for me. Having an excellent middle 6-8 players and a well above average last six to eight players goes a long way to ensuring you best players (top six) shine through and have the best chance at becoming elite.

I often think that guys like Paul Chapman, Joel Corey and Steve Johnson benefited greatly from having such excellent and well balanced levels of players around them, and gave them a platform to reach their potential in becoming A-grade talent. I'm looking forward to seeing who of the less obvious players (not Stringer, Bonti, Macrae and Libba etc.) on our list can flourish as a result of the overall talent we look like having at our disposal.

[Mofra]

I'm looking forward to seeing who of the less obvious players (not Stringer, Bonti, Macrae and Libba etc.) on our list can flourish as a result of the overall talent we look like having at our disposal.
B-C Graders who look longer term players:
Roughead
Wood
Wallis
Stevens
Crameri (already B grade, very good)
Dahlhaus (already B grade, very good)
Hunter
Hrovat

Newbies I'm excited about:
Honeychurch
Webb
Daniel

Take them with our 5 guns and that's 11 players. Then you add at least one ruckman (Campbell or Cordy), a CHB or two (Will one of Hamling/Talia/Cordy develop into best 22 players?) and you only need a few role players to complete the list - Jong looks likely, ditto Mclean, and we'll have a high first rounder this year too.

[LostDoggy]

You're all forgetting Murphy will play until his 38! That's another A Grader!

[Drunken Bum]

Does anyone else think that if we start pushing for a flag with this group, being 'poor old Footscray' could actually become a plus for us attracting the extra pieces to the puzzle and holding onto our stars? I don't know if it's just the romantic in me but the chance to be a part of side to finally break the drought, the underdog batting against the afl's bastard love childs that have been handed everything on a plate and then some would be very appealing and the whole side would go down in folklore. I mean we have seen the swines and the dawks attract free agents because of their flag chances but i feel we would be even more appealing if we were to seriously start to challenge.

[Webby]

Does anyone else think that if we start pushing for a flag with this group, being 'poor old Footscray' could actually become a plus for us attracting the extra pieces to the puzzle and holding onto our stars? I don't know if it's just the romantic in me.....

That's true, IMO, on two fronts. The feel good factor is a massive marketing tool for membership, whilst it is true that free agents will want to jump onboard. It was certainly true of the Boston Red Sox in the mid 2000's. Once a drought is broken, too, lightning can tend to strike 2 or 3 times!

Also, I've read posters going on about us hitting the juggernauts of GWS & Gold Coast. For me, GWS messed up with the Griffen trade, whilst they'll find it hard to retain players in such a zero atmosphere, soulless environment. As for Gold Coast, theyll be good this year and next. Perhaps the year after. That timing is irrelevant to us as we're aiming at a window in 2017-2021. By that stage, probably the best footballer I've seen (GA Jnr) will be coming out of the side. That's a big hole to fill.

We're right amongst it in the coming years.

[Maddog37]

I think Gold Coast are the danger as they now have a good coach. I'm not convinced Leon is the man at GWS.

It's simplistic and cliched but the old saying about a champion team rings true for me. How many first round draft picks are now playing for the Hawks?

[LostDoggy]

Ward and Griffen are both 100-1 for the Brownlow, I'm on both.

The Juggernaut's that the AFL have meticulously put together are about to arrive.

Bob this group will have to be the best you have seen because the house always wins, but we won't get off the tracks. I can't wait to hit them head on.

[Twodogs]

That's true, IMO, on two fronts. The feel good factor is a massive marketing tool for membership, whilst it is true that free agents will want to jump onboard. It was certainly true of the Boston Red Sox in the mid 2000's. Once a drought is broken, too, lightning can tend to strike 2 or 3 times!

Also, I've read posters going on about us hitting the juggernauts of GWS & Gold Coast. For me, GWS messed up with the Griffen trade, whilst they'll find it hard to retain players in such a zero atmosphere, soulless environment. As for Gold Coast, theyll be good this year and next. Perhaps the year after. That timing is irrelevant to us as we're aiming at a window in 2017-2021. By that stage, probably the best footballer I've seen (GA Jnr) will be coming out of the side. That's a big hole to fill.

We're right amongst it in the coming years.

Spot on with your assessment of the expansion teams. Gold Coast is a threat, GWS is just a shopfront for elite talent to show they can play AFL before they sign with a proper footy club.

[Greystache]

I think Gold Coast are the danger as they now have a good coach. I'm not convinced Leon is the man at GWS.

It's simplistic and cliched but the old saying about a champion team rings true for me. How many first round draft picks are now playing for the Hawks?

History suggests otherwise. No one has ever coached longer without winning a premiership, and no one has ever coached more consecutive seasons without making a Grand Final than their current coach. That formline suggests they may make finals but would just be making up the numbers.

[boydogs]

I agree with Murphy but wow that's harsh on Gia and Shaggy.

Gia was highly skilled and intelligent but lacked pace and distance on his kicking. Hargrave was a skinny mid sized defender that gave away frees when trying to play tall and kicked long all the time

Gia was a very clever forward and Hargrave was a great rebounding defender, and you don't need to be good at everything to contribute to the side, but when you compare those guys to Bonts and Stringer it's obvious that the group we have now are far more capable

[bornadog]

when you compare those guys to Bonts and Stringer it's obvious that the group we have now are far more capable

When they put the runs on the board we can say they are better. Agree they have great upside and time will eventually tell.

[jeemak]

Does anyone else think that if we start pushing for a flag with this group, being 'poor old Footscray' could actually become a plus for us attracting the extra pieces to the puzzle and holding onto our stars? I don't know if it's just the romantic in me but the chance to be a part of side to finally break the drought, the underdog batting against the afl's bastard love childs that have been handed everything on a plate and then some would be very appealing and the whole side would go down in folklore. I mean we have seen the swines and the dawks attract free agents because of their flag chances but i feel we would be even more appealing if we were to seriously start to challenge.

No, I don't think any romanticism will come into the prospective players thoughts, nor will any sense of romanticism come into the thoughts of the players we're trying to retain.

Make no mistake, our biggest hurdle faced in winning a flag in three to six years time will be the retention of our gun players, coinciding with our battle to keep our mid tier players who will be guns being offered outstanding contracts to play elsewhere.

Players these days are professional, first and foremost. We need to treat and manage them as such.

[Drunken Bum]

No, I don't think any romanticism will come into the prospective players thoughts, nor will any sense of romanticism come into the thoughts of the players we're trying to retain.

Players these days are professional, first and foremost. We need to treat and manage them as such.

Yeah the players are professional but they are sportsmen and many have taken pay cuts or knocked back more money to move or stay at a club for the chance to win a premiership so it isn't all about money. I did qualify it by saying IF we start pushing for a flag, if we dont look like seriously challenging romanticism wouldn't come into it all but if we look like seriously challenging i wouldn't undersell the romanticism of it all. The chance to be a part of history.
I'd be very surprised if a lot of the players hadn't dreamed of the old underdog prevailing against all odds, of course you still have to treat them as professionals and have competitive offers on the table but i'd like to think it would be a selling point, a small part of it maybe but one nonetheless

[Avoid the rush]

B-C Graders who look longer term players:
Roughead
Wood
Wallis
Stevens
Crameri (already B grade, very good)
Dahlhaus (already B grade, very good)
Hunter
Hrovat

Newbies I'm excited about:
Honeychurch
Webb
Daniel

Take them with our 5 guns and that's 11 players. Then you add at least one ruckman (Campbell or Cordy), a CHB or two (Will one of Hamling/Talia/Cordy develop into best 22 players?) and you only need a few role players to complete the list - Jong looks likely, ditto Mclean, and we'll have a high first rounder this year too.

Can't believe that people don't rate Dahlhaus as potentially elite!! Check his best and fairest votes, check his possessions and the fact he was a rookie this time in 2011. Here we are 4 years later and he would get a game in any side in the comp and he is only 22.

[Webby]

The Dahlhaus omission is probably people just not wanting to dilute their point or leave themselves open for debate.

I think there's potential to have two or three more push up to A grade level and Dahl's one of them. In fact, Dahl is a really good example of a less vaunted pick becoming the best one. Dahl was a Rookie Lister at the same time that Christian Howard was our no. 1 first round pick. Obviously Dahl was the one to watch in the end. Also, Lin Jong is light years ahead of a lot of first round AFL picks from his draft year.

Point is, I think we have one or two lower picks (ie Daniel already) and at least one Rookie (Roarke Smith) and even one or two Footscray listers (Mitch Jensen & Darcy Fort) who are well and truly worth getting to the WO to watch in the coming months.

We've done well from the Rookie List over the years (M Boyd, Morris,Dahl, Redpath & Jong spring immediately to mind) and that was largely prior to us having our own elite VFL programme.

My humble advice to anyone would be to get to the WO to soak up the ground's atmosphere and watch our next wave of kids coming through. It's very, very exciting. It might not be recognised in the media, but the club has its shit together (particularly at the foundation level) at the moment.

[Go_Dogs]

I read the article yesterday, interesting read.

It might have been the Age who ran something similar, and compared our current crop to a slightly different crop to Murph's vintage.

Ie.

Cooney - Pick 1
Griffen - Pick 3
Ray - Pick 4
Williams - Pick 6

vs

Boyd - Pick 1
Bontempelli - Pick 4
Stringer - Pick 5
Macrae - Pick 6

Injuries obviously played there part in the careers of Cooney and Williams, whilst Ray is an honest player but not top tier and Griffen, whilst elite, gradually improved over a number of years to get there.

Whilst the top group have a Brownlow medal and a few B&F's between them, I think it's fair to say the current crop can provide better output over their careers - obviously staying injury free and keeping them at the club is crucial. That being said, I was sure we'd win a flag with Cooney and Griffen, so I'm loathe to put too much expectation on the current bunch.

[Dancin' Douggy]

To put another slant on it I think we have three 'Marquee' or 'franchise' players in one team.

Boyd, Bontempelli and Stringer.

That's something off the richter scale for us.

[Go_Dogs]

To put another slant on it I think we have three 'Marquee' or 'franchise' players in one team.

Boyd, Bontempelli and Stringer.

That's something off the richter scale for us.

Agreed. Liberatore and Macrae go alright too.

Back in 2008-2010 we probably had 3/4 players who somewhat fit into the same category, in Lake, Griffen, Cooney (pre-injury), abd perhaps Johnson/Murphy.

The tier beneath them, players like Gilbee, Morris, Akermanis etc, were equally important. Hopefully players like Roughead, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Hrovat, Smith, Jong, Hunter etc can exceed the second tier group from that era, in time.

We also have a few like Redpath, Talia and Hamling who add a lot structurally which we didn't have in that era. Whilst these players are perhaps unlikely to ever be viewed as elite and become All Australian, all successful teams seem to have honest role players who are versatile and can hold down key roles for the side.

[Bulldog Joe]

So the consensus is that for those younger players we can select for round one, we have at least 4 (Bonts, Stringer, Macrae and Gulliver (TBoyd)) who should make All Australian level at some point within the next 5 years plus Libba who should already have been selected.

We also have potential in several others getting to that standard.

I know we should not get too carried away, but it is certainly looking like developing into a list better than I can recall.

[Webby]

Back in 2008-2010 we probably had 3/4 players who somewhat fit into the same category, in Lake, Griffen, Cooney (pre-injury), abd perhaps Johnson/Murphy.

It's fair to say that all of those guys were A grade players at points in their careers, however they weren't all at that mark simultaneously. Lake was for most of that 08-10 period, Johnno was A grade from 03 to 08, Cooney was unfortunately only there from 07-08. Also Griffen didn't hit A grade levels until 12-13 imo.

It was actually that second tier of players you mentioned who drove us in 08-10. Fact is that St Kilda, Geelong, Hawthorn and collingwood had just a few too many A graders for us.

The most A graders I saw all peaking together in a season was Hawkins, Beasley, Royal and Hardie in '85. They were well supported by B+ graders like Purser, Foster, Wallis etc, but we had four certain A graders at their peak. Unfortunately it only lasted a season and a bit.

That's the difference to today. We've got a glut of A grade talent all coming through concurrently. They should be peaking during the same years - barring injury and a bit of luck. We should see 3-5 years of them at A grader level together.

If we keep the supply of 'B' & 'B+' graders coming through in support, then we have some good times ahead.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Aside from the obvious A graders in our current squad. There's the ones that could just flick a switch and become A graders overnight.
J. Grant for one, Hrovat, Dalhaus who is almost there already for mine, Lachie Hunter I can see becoming a Steve Johnson type.
You'd think at least one of the last years draftees will be a standout, and I still think we'll have a poor season and end up with another top 5 pick. The exciting thing is they are all in the same cluster age wise and should just have a sudden explosive rise to the top. It hurts me to see Cooney in a (spit,cough, hurl) Effingdon jumper. And to see Griffione in that lamentable Giants packaging (I can't even call it a Guernsey). But it is so much better for our development to have someone else take their spots in the 22 rather than have them running around for us. It's so exciting to go and watch this fresh, sparkling list. I love it.

[Topdog]

Murphy is right, its up to the coaching staff to nurture that talent though.

[Danny the snakeman]

He's hardly going to say their crap.

Never been more happier to admit I was wrong. Go Dogs

[bulldogtragic]

Bob gets to be called a finals captain (in his first year too). An achievement our last two captains before Bob didn't get to have on their resume.

[LostDoggy]

Bob gets to be called a finals captain (in his first year too). An achievement our last two captains before Bob didn't get to have on their resume.

Just looked it up BT. Bob joins Bulldogs royalty as VFL/AFL finals captain #12.

Fair company to be in; Brad Johnson, Luke Darcy, Scott Wynd, Doug Hawkins, Jim Edmond, Laurie Sandilands, Ted Whitten, Charlie Sutton, Arthur Olliver, Norm Ware and Roy Evans.

Let's hope he can take it a step further and join a club of 2; just Bob and Charlie.

[The Underdog]

Bob gets to be called a finals captain (in his first year too). An achievement our last two captains before Bob didn't get to have on their resume.

That post led to the double realisation for me that it's 5 years since Johnno retired and that I'm older than him by a year.

[bulldogtragic]

That post led to the double realisation for me that it's 5 years since Johnno retired and that I'm older than him by a year.

In working the same post out I realised I'm older than Matty Boyd, and I think how old he his...

[Hotdog60]

At least I'm 2 months younger than Dougie Hawkins.

[Twodogs]

At least I'm 2 months younger than Dougie Hawkins.

I was just thinking that I am about the same age as Doug. A couple of years younger maybe.