Well Ruck Me.

[bulldogtragic]

I think a few of us have been wondering when we would top up with a ruck or two. This year the balance is not too bad, provided Will stays fit, although I'm not a fan of Boyd or Redpath in the ruck. its not a retrospective thread.

Watching Hawthorn right now they've taken a ruckman from all tiers (top level, mid and prospective type) and all from other clubs. McEvoy a big trade, Hale the mid level sort at North (behind Macintosh & Golstein) and Ceglar cut by Collingwood. And all are showing good signs as rucks and second forwards.

Gets me thinking that as our game style is moving towards what Hawthorn are doing, that perhaps we might want to pursue a ruckman or two at years end. Even more so if Campbell & Cordy haven't played good game time. Seems having too many rucks is a good problem, and tall genuine forwards play as tall genuine forwards and not also as pretend ruckmen.

Hawthorn today have Ceglar & McEvoy, plus Gunston & Roughy as forwards. Would we lose too much run if we added in another ruckman who rests forward? Is Minson's great workhorse strength also a team limitation as he can't rest forward with any success? I'd love to hear Bevo's thoughts as he theory about players playing in multiple roles is working for a few guys and the team. I'd guess he'd like two rucks, but I also guess it would slow us down over the course of a game. Hopefully Cordy & Campbell are watching today and realising if you play your best footy, lots of talls can play in a side.

[bulldogtragic]

Just for convo sake, Kruezer, Luenberger and Bellchambers are free agents.

[boydogs]

If you play more than one ruck, they need to be useful in other positions. Cordy & Campbell need to show more as forwards to get a game, particularly as Minson isn't much chop anywhere else

[GVGjr]

Good thread BT, I was watching parts of the game and asking the same question. To me if we were to play Cordy then we can't play Redpath as a forward.
I think the difference with the Hawks set-up is that McEvoy is a reasonable forward and for that matter so is Hale when he is fit. If Minson could be more productive up forward then we could play 2 ruckman but that is unlikely.

We probably need a versatile tall like Blicavs who could be paired with any of our ruckman.

Could Cordy and Minson work for a large part of the season?

[azabob]

BT the one thing all the hawks ruckman have in common is they are more mobile than your average ruckman. McEvoy looks to have slimmed down a lot compared to last season. And the year before that Roughead slimmed down as well.

Are Campbell, Minson and Cordy mobile enough to allow us to have them play forward 100% of the time? I dont think so.

[F'scary]

If we accept that the FF and CHF (Tom Boyd & Redders at this time) have to more often than not maintain positions forward of the ball, a FP/resting ruckman must not only provide a marking target and not get in the way of the FF but must also be capable of applying defensive pressure, including following and positioning behind the ball when it is well upfield. From the NAB Cup match against Collingwood, Ayce looks the most likely to be capable of playing this role (I assume Minnow would be rested on the bench when Ayce takes his turn in the ruck) and I think Bevo could experiment with this over the course of the season. But it won't work if the effect is to add a player to the forward line that hasn't the capability to play the defensive side of the modern forward's game.

[bulldogtragic]

Good thread BT, I was watching parts of the game and asking the same question. To me if we were to play Cordy then we can't play Redpath as a forward.
I think the difference with the Hawks set-up is that McEvoy is a reasonable forward and for that matter so is Hale when he is fit. If Minson could be more productive up forward then we could play 2 ruckman but that is unlikely.

We probably need a versatile tall like Blicavs who could be paired with any of our ruckman.

Could Cordy and Minson work for a large part of the season?

That's a good question. I was not brave enough to post in the MC thread about Redpath as the kudos was about presenting and not marking or goaling. Cordy can present and take a tall defender too? I think so, which also means Boyd isn't forced to ruck. That I like too. I'm not for dropping Redders per se, but he is quite one dimensional and I think if he is shut down he will get subbed off most games that happens. Minson can present, compete and not take marks. He's a good set shot too.

I hope Cordy keeps his form going and we can trial it. We've not drafted a ruckman since Roughead and we turned him into a full back. Could we use a high pick this year or take a FA ruckman at the expense of a defender or mid? I think we need to focus on it.

I think the complexity is Minno's strenthes are matched by his positional limitations. But seeing if a second ruck through Cordy works gives us an idea of how hard to go. The success or not may help us work out how hard to go post season at either a big trade, free agent, delistee or draft. But the Hawks are resurrecting the ruckman and I'd love to keep pace with them in this respect.

[bulldogtragic]

BT the one thing all the hawks ruckman have in common is they are more mobile than your average ruckman. McEvoy looks to have slimmed down a lot compared to last season. And the year before that Roughead slimmed down as well.

Are Campbell, Minson and Cordy mobile enough to allow us to have them play forward 100% of the time? I dont think so.


I think Cordy could. Campbell has been injured and Minno... No. :)

So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?

[azabob]

I think Cordy could. Campbell has been injured and Minno... No. :)

So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?

We have no choice but to change our ruck dynamics as you suggested.

However that would mean minson and Campbell can no longer be apart of our plans moving forward.

[boydogs]

So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?

Like the rest of our list, they will have to learn :)

[bulldogtragic]

Like the rest of our list, they will have to learn :)

Minno can't. Great ruckman, very poor forward. Perhaps Campbell & Cordy can. But we would need to trade Minno to allow them to grow, and then use the salary to grab a FA ruckman. I think there would be a lot of dissent. But is that worth going through?

As Aza says, we might have some questions...

[Sedat]

Minno can't. Great ruckman, very poor forward.
Reckon I am still the only member of the "Minno wasn't the worst forward in the world in 2008'' bandwagon :o

At least my Schulz and Spangher bandwagons have filled up nicely in recent years ;)

[Bulldog Joe]

Reckon I am still the only member of the "Minno wasn't the worst forward in the world in 2008'' bandwagon :o

At least my Schulz and Spangher bandwagons have filled up nicely in recent years ;)

I'm with you. Minson was a serviceable forward in 08/09

[Mofra]

The other missing point is: forwardline pressure. If we are to play a dedicated second ruck/forward they must be able to apply sufficient pressure. It looks set to become a hallmark of our gameplan.

[LostDoggy]

I would give Redpath a decent run in the forward line for the next few weeks. If it's not working
Cordy gets a shot as forward / 2nd Ruck. Look to draft a more mobile ruck/forward prospect at end of the year
as an alternative to Minson in future years.

[bulldogtragic]

We just got rucked. Ayce in this week.

[Remi Moses]

I think the MC sees Ayce as a better bet in the second ruck role. Time for Ayce to step up

[Testekill]

In terms of developing rucks, I've heard that we're rather keen on seeing how Darcy Fort develops for us in the VFL.

[Mofra]

We just got rucked. Ayce in this week.
Given Redpath was pretty much just creating a contest and that's what Ayce can do (but is a better ruckman) it seems like a move that could work.

[F'scary]

The Ayce-in-the-Pack played pretty well, I thought, in the Collingwood NAB Cup game. If the Ayce is the second ruck, that has implications for Tom Boyd. Firstly, it would seem Tom won't get a turn in the ruck. Secondly, is the Ayce expected to play CHF and 2nd ruck or does he play FF and 2nd ruck and Tom Boyd plays the full match as CHF? If Minson is resting on the bench, which I would anticipate, does Stringer present as the FF and drop his free ranging commission that he enjoyed in Round 1?

[bulldogtragic]

This is an area where we can still improve in, and when we get it right, it will be an even more devastating set up.

[LostDoggy]

Ayce Cordy couldn't get a kick in a street fight. The thought of him being a key forward is scary. Big Redpath needed to have another week in the seniors, dropping him after one bad performance will wreck his confidence

[boydogs]

Ayce Cordy couldn't get a kick in a street fight. The thought of him being a key forward is scary. Big Redpath needed to have another week in the seniors, dropping him after one bad performance will wreck his confidence

If Redpath's confidence was going to be affected then playing badly and being subbed off would have done it

Cordy was BOG in the VFL the week before, our worst AFL player and best VFL player played much the same position so the change made sense. Ayce couldn't make the step up, no worries, someone else gets a go but at least the guys in the VFL know if they play well they will get an opportunity

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Neither Redpath or Cordy look good enough at senior level. Tom Campbell providing he can improve on his mobility and endurance is still a better prospect and the most likely to eventually replace Minson as our number one ruck man.

[Hotdog60]

I think Redpath should have had another week. He got to the right spots just couldn't hold em.
If he held his marks we would be singing his praises. He's play a handful of games and nerves may have got the better of him and was trying too hard and impounding the problem.
Ayce could have waited another week. In the washup we wouldn't have lost anything by keeping Jack. Also he may have had a good game and kicked a couple.

[Maddog37]

I personally think it was done solely to stretch Richmonds defence as they are not super tall down back.

[Twodogs]

I personally think it was done solely to stretch Richmonds defence as they are not super tall down back.

We should have added Ayce then and dropped one of the smells.

[Happy Days]

I think Redpath should have had another week. He got to the right spots just couldn't hold em.
If he held his marks we would be singing his praises. He's play a handful of games and nerves may have got the better of him and was trying too hard and impounding the problem.


But he didn't. So we're not.

He didn't show anything in the AFL last year, showed nothing in R1, and was poor in the VFL last weekend.

We have to look at the side and ask if Redpath makes it better. I get why people are so desperate for Redpath to make it (looks like a gun, full forward, seems *really* nice), but on exposed form it just isn't there. His hands are poor, his turning circle likewise, and isn't dangerous once the ball is on the ground. I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

We are a better side with Crameri/Stringer at CHF and one of Hrovat or Hunter (Hrovat) taking Cordy's place. Did you guys see The Boss in the ruck? He was good!

[LostDoggy]

We should have added Ayce then and dropped one of the smells.

Please don't drop any more smells, mate. Room is really heating up. :P

[Maddog37]

We should have added Ayce then and dropped one of the smells.


So many tasteless jokes.....must...contain...........myself.

[JohnGentStand]

Play whoever is in form and may the man that finally owns it stay there...

[LostDoggy]

Ayce Cordy is more likely to get a kick in a street fight.

[LostDoggy]

The Big Soup will probably get a call up this week and if he dosen't perform we will probably persist with Redders for half a doz.

[bulldogtragic]

Morris down means Roughy is no chance at rucking.
Redpath can't ruck next level up.
Ayce is very poor right now, with no improvement.
Campbell out impressed by Fort.

God help us if Minno drops form or gets injured.

[lemmon]

Kreuzer is a free agent...no interest from me but it's an interesting discussion point

[bulldogtragic]

Kreuzer is a free agent...no interest from me but it's an interesting discussion point

They might want a compo pick to rebuild? He might want a fresh start. When he's fit, he's better than most on our list right now.

[azabob]

They might want a compo pick to rebuild? He might want a fresh start. When he's fit, he's better than most on our list right now.

I'd say he's a better option than all our ruckman when fit? He is Injured majority of the time though!

[LostDoggy]

We will be seeing on Sunday arvo the ideal player we need in our side at the moment.. Josh Jenkins!

[stefoid]

So maybe Minno (for whatever reason) is struggling to play most of the game in the ruck, and we cant relieve him because our ruck/forwards are woeful.

Solution - play Minno as the ruck/forward and give Cordy or Cambell a chance at 1st ruck.

If Ayce stinks it up as 1st ruck, odds are that Campbell gets a run at it next week, and Minson plays forward again?

If could just be that Minno is both our best 1st ruck and our best ruck/forward (not great, just best of a poor bunch) and for the teams benefit, we might be better off playing Cordy/Campbell as the 1st ruck and Minno up forward for 70% of the time.

[LostDoggy]

So Roughead played the second ruck role tonight. How does everyone think he went? Looked like he just followed Jenkins everywhere all match.

I wouldn't mind seeing this again against the Swans with Tippett as there second ruck option.

[azabob]

So Roughead played the second ruck role tonight. How does everyone think he went? Looked like he just followed Jenkins everywhere all match.

I wouldn't mind seeing this again against the Swans with Tippett as there second ruck option.

Seemed that way didn't it? I liked it and think we should do the same again next week.

[comrade]

Roughy took 2nd ruck, with a chop out from Boyd at times.

Josh Jenkins was woeful for the Crows.

[Happy Days]

What would we think about riding with a Boyd/Roughead combo?

I honestly think that after tonight our best ruckman would be Bontempelli.

[Ozza]

What would we think about riding with a Boyd/Roughead combo?

I honestly think that after tonight our best ruckman would be Bontempelli.

Didn't like seeing either Rough or Boyd in the ruck. Nor did I like the short stint or two when Rough wandered around lost in the forward line later in the game.

[bornadog]

From Bevo press conference:


Western Bulldogs ruckman Will Minson remains in the mix for selection, despite again missing the cut for the second week in a row.

The Bulldogs flew out for Sydney ahead of Saturday's clash with the Swans at the SCG, minus Minson who'll spend at least one more week in the VFL.


"Will played OK last week for Footscray and he knows as soon as there's an opportunity for him to come back in, we'll definitely consider him," coach Luke Beveridge told reporters at Melbourne Airport on Friday morning.


"He went about it the right way," Beveridge said.


"He accepts that there's competition for spots right across the board.


Minson was dropped by the Bulldogs after the round three thrashing by Hawthorn, and Beveridge’s men subsequently turned that result around with a surprise 57-point win over the undefeated Crows.


"We saw last week (against Adelaide), with a little bit of a change in the way we went about things and the way we structured up that we had some positive effects,” Beveridge said.


"I've spoken to Will about that, and that that's not necessarily the way we go in every week.


"He knows that week to week he is definitely part of the mix, and so he's just trying to put his best foot forward.”

[F'scary]

Minson is still clearly our best ruckman but I reckon it is the Minson structural issue that is bothering Bevo. Thing is, I don't think Cordy can offer anything different and on top of that lacks in the areas Minson is strong in. It will be Campbell's opportunity within a week or two. He alone out of the three can take a turn at FP, FF or CHF. My prediction: at year end, Bevo will be looking for a mobile 2nd ruck who can take a mark in the forward line to partner Campbell. He will also be looking for another young ruckman to develop over the next 4 years or thereabouts. Minno will slide more and more in terms of senior games played next season and Cordy will be delisted (remaining contract paid out if necessary) at the end of 2015.

[bornadog]

Minson is still clearly our best ruckman but I reckon it is the Minson structural issue that is bothering Bevo. Thing is, I don't think Cordy can offer anything different and on top of that lacks in the areas Minson is strong in. It will be Campbell's opportunity within a week or two. He alone out of the three can take a turn at FP, FF or CHF. My prediction: at year end, Bevo will be looking for a mobile 2nd ruck who can take a mark in the forward line to partner Campbell. He will also be looking for another young ruckman to develop over the next 4 years or thereabouts. Minno will slide more and more in terms of senior games played next season and Cordy will be delisted (remaining contract paid out if necessary) at the end of 2015.

I think you are about right with that prediction

[boydogs]

Would Jesse White be of interest? Looks the part but it hasn't really clicked for him

[azabob]

Would Jesse White be of interest? Looks the part but it hasn't really clicked for him

No thanks. Other than his purple patch at Sydney he has not done much at all.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty sure Roughy is also our number one ruckman.

[Greystache]

Cordy looks like a tall 14 year old we asked to play seniors because we have injuries. Surely the call makes itself.

[jeemak]

I think he's at a point where he knows what he needs to do and the major thing stopping him from being able to compete is a lack of strength.

I'd be inclined to suggest he stops playing for 8-10 weeks to work on his strength and tank, and come out for the last six or seven rounds of the season. If we think he has the talent to be a ruck then we put as much work into his physique as we possibly can and give him a single year extension.

If we don't think he'll eventually get there then we need to cut him loose.

[Mantis]

I think he's at a point where he knows what he needs to do and the major thing stopping him from being able to compete is a lack of strength.

I'd be inclined to suggest he stops playing for 8-10 weeks to work on his strength and tank, and come out for the last six or seven rounds of the season. If we think he has the talent to be a ruck then we put as much work into his physique as we possibly can and give him a single year extension.



March- September is for playing.. He is 25 now and still has the body strength of a 19 year old.. 8-10 weeks in the gym isn't going to fix what 6 or 7 pre-seasons hasn't.

[jeemak]

March- September is for playing.. He is 25 now and still has the body strength of a 19 year old.. 8-10 weeks in the gym isn't going to fix what 6 or 7 pre-seasons hasn't.

His body hasn't been able to take the required work during a huge amount of those preseasons.

I think his body is probably at a stage where it's more developed structurally and could possibly take on the work. Give him a couple of months at it and then he can give it a hit over the following preseason.

[Ghost Dog]

The other missing point is: forwardline pressure. If we are to play a dedicated second ruck/forward they must be able to apply sufficient pressure. It looks set to become a hallmark of our gameplan.

I guess this is where Will has an issue with his game.
I'd like to see Campbell up foward again because he is still quite young and lots of room for improvement, and have no problem Boyd being used now and again when the match up is effective for him to be in the ruck. He is a quick thinker - have been impressed.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty sure Roughy is also our number one ruckman.

Yep. Couldn't agree with myself more on that one. :)

[G-Mo77]

I've forgotten how good his tap work was before he went back. The rucks looked good yesterday, they dominated Mummy.

Roberts stepping up and delivering has certainly helped give Roughy a chance to change roles. We've got a pretty versatile player there now.

[LostDoggy]

Bevo's message about providing a physical presence around the ground is reflected in the stats , both Big Will and Roughy had 4 1% each , it might not look like much of a stat buts it a benchmark for Defenders not Ruckmen

[bornadog]

Pretty sure Roughy is also our number one ruckman.
Minson gone backwards again. Shocking game tonight.
I would like to see Campbell come in next week

[jeemak]

Minson gone backwards again. Shocking game tonight.
I would like to see Campbell come in next week

Can you imagine the vitriol if Cordy returned the results Minson or Roughead did today.

I left the question mark out of that sentence on purpose.

[GVGjr]

Minson gone backwards again. Shocking game tonight.
I would like to see Campbell come in next week
Is Campbell really ahead of Cordy?

[Bulldog4life]

Is Campbell really ahead of Cordy?

No I don't think so GVG.

[bornadog]

Is Campbell really ahead of Cordy?

Cordy had his chance, now Campbell should have his.

[GVGjr]

Cordy had his chance, now Campbell should have his.

Do you really believe it's as simple as that?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can you imagine the vitriol if Cordy returned the results Minson or Roughead did today.

I left the question mark out of that sentence on purpose.

Both were disappointing weren't they? Offered nothing around the ground and were lucky Martin and Leuy were just as bad.

Roughy hasn't had a great year IMO. Even down back he has struggled a bit. Not a fan of Cordy at AFL level but wouldn't be surprised if Minson made way for him.

[Hotdog60]

I think Will is safe, Bevo presser said that none of the rucks were having a good night so Will got subbed for some more run.

[bornadog]

Do you really believe it's as simple as that?

Yes I do

[boydogs]

Minson gone backwards again. Shocking game tonight.

More hitouts than Roughead playing only 2.5 quarters

[bornadog]

More hitouts than Roughead playing only 2.5 quarters

Gotta do more than three disposals

[GVGjr]

Yes I do

I don't believe that sharing the ruck to someone who hasn't necessarily earned it is the right way to go. We have established and excellent pathway from our highly successful VFL side and yet many seem to be more than comfortable to ignore the form displayed at Footscray.

Now I know later in the year we are going to have to make the hard call on some players and opportunities might be granted more than earned but at the moment as far as I'm concerned it's still more around picking the best players each week.

[F'scary]

Gotta do more than three disposals

I think he did do more, he was a real physical presence at the stoppages and controlled the ball down to our advantage regularly. He was also doing a bit of enforcing. There was one sequence where in between goals in the second quarter, he was roughing up 3 Brisbane defenders at the same time after one of them pushed one of our smaller players (was it Hrovat? McLean?) around.

[boydogs]

Gotta do more than three disposals

Roughead only had 8 in 4 quarters

I don't think any of our rucks are delivering what we'd like at the moment

[Maddog37]

Bizarre theory time; game was scrappy due to both sides coming off a break. Big guys take even more time to adapt after a spell.....

[bornadog]

I don't believe that sharing the ruck to someone who hasn't necessarily earned it is the right way to go. We have established and excellent pathway from our highly successful VFL side and yet many seem to be more than comfortable to ignore the form displayed at Footscray.

Now I know later in the year we are going to have to make the hard call on some players and opportunities might be granted more than earned but at the moment as far as I'm concerned it's still more around picking the best players each week.

I don't believe in gifting players a game, but I think Campbell is just about ready to step up. He has been consistent over the past few weeks and his ground work has improved as well. I do believe he is better than Cordy as a ruckman.

[comrade]

I don't believe in gifting players a game, but I think Campbell is just about ready to step up. He has been consistent over the past few weeks and his ground work has improved as well. I do believe he is better than Cordy as a ruckman.

But Roughy is our #1 ruck.

We don't need Campbell to be a better 'ruck man' whatever that means in this modern game. Who cares if he can win a few more taps. The role of the second ruck man is to play forward and fit into the defensive structure when not rucking.

Is Campbell better than Cordy at this?

[Bulldog4life]

I don't believe in gifting players a game, but I think Campbell is just about ready to step up. He has been consistent over the past few weeks and his ground work has improved as well. I do believe he is better than Cordy as a ruckman.

True but Bevo is looking for more than just being a ruckman He wants a follower who can play forward too

[bornadog]

But Roughy is our #1 ruck.

We don't need Campbell to be a better 'ruck man' whatever that means in this modern game. Who cares if he can win a few more taps. The role of the second ruck man is to play forward and fit into the defensive structure when not rucking.

Is Campbell better than Cordy at this?

We can play Roughie and Campbell, why not and yes better than Cordy.

[bornadog]

True but Bevo is looking for more than just being a ruckman He wants a follower who can play forward too

Campbell has shown he can play forward. Cordy can't ruck or play forward at AFL level.

[Bulldog4life]

Campbell has shown he can play forward. Cordy can't ruck or play forward at AFL level.

So are you saying we should delist Cordy if he can't play at AFL level as you said BAD?

[bornadog]

So are you saying we should delist Cordy if he can't play at AFL level as you said BAD?

Don't be surprised if he is gone by year end.

[Ozza]

I'm still not a believer in Roughead as a Ruck/Forward. His best position is full back, its where all his best football has been.

If Minson is going to be in the team, I'd prefer he played as the predominant ruckman, and Boyd and Rough can pinch hit there.

But I'd like to see Campbell get a run soon.

[LostDoggy]

So are you saying we should delist Cordy if he can't play at AFL level as you said BAD?Cordy should have been delisted 2 years ago.

[lemmon]

I honestly think Minson did more harm than good when playing forward on the weekend. There was one point Stringer had snuck out the back and had Lewy Taylor 1v1 and was calling for it on his head. Minson lumbered back to the square taking his man with him and forced Stringer to lead into the pocket, luckily Bonti found him and Stringer slotted the tight angled set shot but Minson had no forward sense and turned a 90% goal chance into something significantly tougher. He does it continually, dragging his man to the square on a fast play and turning a 1v1 into a big pack situation which plays into the defenders hands. It's something he can be taught but his first thought when playing forward must change from 'get to the square because I'm tall'

[LostDoggy]

I honestly think Minson did more harm than good when playing forward on the weekend. There was one point Stringer had snuck out the back and had Lewy Taylor 1v1 and was calling for it on his head. Minson lumbered back to the square taking his man with him and forced Stringer to lead into the pocket, luckily Bonti found him and Stringer slotted the tight angled set shot but Minson had no forward sense and turned a 90% goal chance into something significantly tougher. He does it continually, dragging his man to the square on a fast play and turning a 1v1 into a big pack situation which plays into the defenders hands. It's something he can be taught but his first thought when playing forward must change from 'get to the square because I'm tall'

Or maybe just maybe Minson knew exactly what he was doing? Stringer is probably more of a chance slotting the goal from the pocket rather than straight infront!

In all seriousness though that was dumb from Minson. I just don't expect anything from him when he goes forward anymore. Makes it less frustrating.

[lemmon]

Or maybe just maybe Minson knew exactly what he was doing? Stringer is probably more of a chance slotting the goal from the pocket rather than straight infront!

In all seriousness though that was dumb from Minson. I just don't expect anything from him when he goes forward anymore. Makes it less frustrating.

But if he's actually making the forward line less functional doesn't it become a serious concern?

[LostDoggy]

But if he's actually making the forward line less functional doesn't it become a serious concern?

For sure. Roughy was also extremely underwhelming whilst playing forward. Considering the calibre of Brisbane's tall defenders our rucks really should have had a greater impact in the air considering the amount of inside 50's we generated.

Last week the Saints only went in with Longer and used Bruce to give him a chop out.

What would be your preferred ruck set up this week assuming they leave Hickey out and go with the same line-up (3 tall forwards Roo, Bruce, Membrey)?

I would like to see Minson back as first ruck. Roughy to the backline and when Bruce gives Longer a chop out Roughy follows him on ball.

Our ruck combination/set-up must be what our coaches spend majority of the week trying to figure out. Especially with Ayce coming off a career best game in the VFL and Campbell being in decent form also.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think if the 3rd man up tactic isn't outlawed then Minson and players like him will be out of football very quickly.
There's just no spot for a big lumbering ruckman that uses his body instead of his leap. So many times on the weekend Will and Martin just stood there both expecting a 3rd man from both sides to contest the ruck. It's ugly IMHO

[Happy Days]

I think it's worth noting that whilst the results from Minson and Roughy weren't that impressive, they were able to neutralise Stef Martin totally, who is one of the best ruckmen in the game.

[jeemak]

I think it's worth noting that whilst the results from Minson and Roughy weren't that impressive, they were able to neutralise Stef Martin totally, who is one of the best ruckmen in the game.

It's interesting you say that when Martin registered more hitouts and disposals than those two combined, and we only won two more centre clearances, one more stoppage and three more general clearances in a 72 point win - with Martin being named in Brisbane's best players.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's interesting you say that when Martin registered more hitouts and disposals than those two combined, and we only won two more centre clearances, one more stoppage and three more general clearances in a 72 point win - with Martin being named in Brisbane's best players.

I thought Martin clearly had the better of our guys.

Interesting at the game my thought was how much better we would be with Martin playing for us.

[Happy Days]

It's interesting you say that when Martin registered more hitouts and disposals than those two combined, and we only won two more centre clearances, one more stoppage and three more general clearances in a 72 point win - with Martin being named in Brisbane's best players.

It's how much I rate him; second lowest disposals for the season and had his influence around the ground, where he does most of his damage, curbed.

I think that he was the best big man, but not by as much as he regularly is. And if McCartney taught us anything, it's that clearances are a false economy.

[jeemak]

It's how much I rate him; second lowest disposals for the season and had his influence around the ground, where he does most of his damage, curbed.

I think that he was the best big man, but not by as much as he regularly is. And if McCartney taught us anything, it's that clearances are a false economy.

Unless Ayce Cordy is rucking at them. Then they mean everything.

[hujsh]

Unless Ayce Cordy is rucking at them. Then they mean everything.

When we're losing the hit outs decisively, giving silver service to the opposition midfielders and scraps to ours it becomes an issue. The numbers aren't the most important thing, it's how effective the ruckman is at giving the mids easy clearances.

When Cordy rucked the opposition ruckmen dominated in the ruck. They don't do that to Roughead who provides at least as much as Cordy around the ground

[jeemak]

When we're losing the hit outs decisively, giving silver service to the opposition midfielders and scraps to ours it becomes an issue. The numbers aren't the most important thing, it's how effective the ruckman is at giving the mids easy clearances.

When Cordy rucked the opposition ruckmen dominated in the ruck. They don't do that to Roughead who provides at least as much as Cordy around the ground

Agree that it was an issue against Fremantle, though we were going up against the best centre duo in the league with Ayce alone which was always going to end badly. It's moot, though I wonder how much better Roughead would have fared against them.

I'd like to see a quality of clearance stat. What I can access doesn't go beyond the raw numbers.

[Scorlibo]

It's interesting you say that when Martin registered more hitouts and disposals than those two combined, and we only won two more centre clearances, one more stoppage and three more general clearances in a 72 point win - with Martin being named in Brisbane's best players.

It's a good point you make. Stef Martin is one of the best ruckmen going around, but mostly because of his impact around the ground. As recently as last year, for Minson to have been bested so convincingly by Martin at the taps would have come as a big surprise. The Minson-Roughead combination worked brilliantly in their first outing together but since their effectiveness has fallen away dramatically.

I still really like Roughead as a ruckman, but think that he should be given the number one ruck role if that's where he's going to play.

[hujsh]

Agree that it was an issue against Fremantle, though we were going up against the best centre duo in the league with Ayce alone which was always going to end badly. It's moot, though I wonder how much better Roughead would have fared against them.

I'd like to see a quality of clearance stat. What I can access doesn't go beyond the raw numbers.

I like Cordy. Unfortunately whe he rucked it just felt like the opposition had the first opportunity to win every clearance. That was the case (for me) against Adelaide and Sydney and possibly other teams I've forgotten about because we lost

[The Doctor]

I like Cordy.

Why? Please explain.

[hujsh]

Why? Please explain.

I just want him to succeed. Maybe because he was a high draft pick, maybe because he had back luck with injuries early. Like Grant I just wanted to see him do well. Unfortunatly after watching him get some games this year I've pretty much given up on him.

[LostDoggy]

I just want him to succeed. Maybe because he was a high draft pick, maybe because he had back luck with injuries early. Like Grant I just wanted to see him do well. Unfortunatly after watching him get some games this year I've pretty much given up on him.

My sentiments exactly hujsh. As time went on, I was just hoping there would be a big break out game and he would go from strength to strength. Sadly it didnt eventuate.

[LostDoggy]

Did Cordy get the bronx cheers two weeks ago when we played williamstown? He took a grab in the centre and it sounded as if he got them, wasnt to sure as i was on the opposite wing.

[Bulldog4life]

It's a good point you make. Stef Martin is one of the best ruckmen going around, but mostly because of his impact around the ground. As recently as last year, for Minson to have been bested so convincingly by Martin at the taps would have come as a big surprise. The Minson-Roughead combination worked brilliantly in their first outing together but since their effectiveness has fallen away dramatically.

I still really like Roughead as a ruckman, but think that he should be given the number one ruck role if that's where he's going to play.

He started last week's game in the centre square.

[Twodogs]

Did Cordy get the bronx cheers two weeks ago when we played williamstown? He took a grab in the centre and it sounded as if he got them, wasnt to sure as i was on the opposite wing.

Not that I heard.

[jeemak]

Not that I heard.

Could you imagine how amazing it would have been if it did happen though?

They would have really shown Ayce that day. They'd be telling that story for years.

[Twodogs]

Listening to the proposal to get rid of the Rookie list I agree. But there's a problem with the late development of big man, particularly ruckmen. Would there be any sense in having an allowance of two or three develop talls at each club? It could be outside tge salary cap because they only ever play seconds but they have a development program with the senior group and they are bound to be promoted to the senior list when their performances and fitness dictates.

I know clubs want to have one list that they can choose from but these guys wouldn't really be available for selection per se. Only after they are fully developed and ready to play are they promoted full time.

[jeemak]

Last time we played the Saints Longer won 37 HO's and a handful of touches versus Cordy's 16 as the sole ruck, whilst he earned 18 touches.

This time around we had two rucks who between them levelled Longer's HO's and beat his 11 disposals by a whopping five.

I look forward to the hysterical nature of our commentary around our ruck situation this week, considering two up this time around for us didn't seem to do any better than the worst ruck we have on our list right now.

[hujsh]

The Saints game was recognized as Cordy's best. Please stop trying so dramatically to make Cordy a martyr every week. It's a bit tiring. Raise the ruck issue if you want but see if you can do it without using the work hysterical at least

[jeemak]

The Saints game was recognized as Cordy's best. Please stop trying so dramatically to make Cordy a martyr every week. It's a bit tiring. Raise the ruck issue if you want but see if you can do it without using the work hysterical at least

Fair enough. I think I'll give it a rest, though I'm not trying to make Cordy a martyr.

I didn't think Cordy or Campbell did a lot to progress their causes from what I saw today unfortunately, so if we do drop Minson and one of those guys get a game I don't think they'll have earned it to any great extent.

[bornadog]

Fair enough. I think I'll give it a rest, though I'm not trying to make Cordy a martyr.

I didn't think Cordy or Campbell did a lot to progress their causes from what I saw today unfortunately, so if we do drop Minson and one of those guys get a game I don't think they'll have earned it to any great extent.

The rucks are now a real concern and based on today, I think we have to stick with Minson and Roughead sharing the duties and Boyd doing a little of the work as well.

[jeemak]

If we promoted Redpath we could go with Roughead and Boyd, though promoting him after only a spike in form isn't really what we should be doing.

When we lose Boyd from our structure up forward it's quite noticeable, and I'm not a fan of it happening too often. Perhaps we do go with Minson again and bring on a runner as the sub.

[hujsh]

Fair enough. I think I'll give it a rest, though I'm not trying to make Cordy a martyr.

I didn't think Cordy or Campbell did a lot to progress their causes from what I saw today unfortunately, so if we do drop Minson and one of those guys get a game I don't think they'll have earned it to any great extent.

I agree it's an issue. Minson's not been up to it and every other option has real drawbacks

[bornadog]

If we promoted Redpath we could go with Roughead and Boyd, though promoting him after only a spike in form isn't really what we should be doing.

When we lose Boyd from our structure up forward it's quite noticeable, and I'm not a fan of it happening too often. Perhaps we do go with Minson again and bring on a runner as the sub.

At least if Redpath comes in and Boyd helps in the ruck, then the structure wil be better. Minson is a useless forward and he is getting worse.

[Ozza]

Yes I'm really concerned about our ruck set up.
Roughead was good around the ground at times, but we lost our way in the centre bounces once Minson was subbed off.
Perhaps Rough will improve his rucking if he is focused on it, rather than full back, as his pre-season would have been geared.

[bulldogtragic]

Campbell wants the spot. Good day today for him.

[jeemak]

I've been a little uninspired by Campbell's tap/ruck work, though his positioning around the ground has been good.

He needs to take the next step with his craft, though being a touch under 24 years of age and having already shown capacity to improve I think there's scope for him to do so.

A little more aggression around the contests wouldn't go astray either.

Overall, there's plenty to work with though it's not a given he'll forge a stable and fruitful career if he doesn't show marked improvement in a couple of areas.

[bulldogtragic]

Cordy gone.
Campbell here, didn't dominate this year.
Minson here, is he really a part of the plan?
Where does Roughy play?

We need at least one mature ruckman, maybe two. Or one mature and two developing types. I hope we address the ruck this off season because it's an area of obvious improvement for us.

[Bulldog Joe]

I know it is not a popular choice, but I really feel that Tom Boyd is the most likely ruckman we have.

Where he hasn't demanded the ball as a leading forward, he has always looked capable when he has moved into the ruck.

An uninterrupted pre-season could be terrific for him.

[bulldogtragic]

I know it is not a popular choice, but I really feel that Tom Boyd is the most likely ruckman we have.
.

This is why need a good ruckman. He's the most likely gun KPF we've had in forever too. I rate his impact as a KPF far greater than ruckman.

[Bulldog Joe]

This is why need a good ruckman. He's the most likely gun KPF we've had in forever too. I rate his impact as a KPF far greater than ruckman.

I am not convinced that he will offer the value as a KPF that he could provide as a ruckman.

If we had Goldstein would we play him forward or Ruck. A mobile tall who can handle the ruck (such as Stefan Martin) also adds to the midfield. I see Boyd as being better able to cover the ground and contribute in those marking contests.

I actually like the way Redpath is tracking (another unpopular view), as he provides a strong presence and he can actually kick it.
As his confidence develops I expect him to get better.

[bulldogtragic]

I am not convinced that he will offer the value as a KPF that he could provide as a ruckman.

If we had Goldstein would we play him forward or Ruck. A mobile tall who can handle the ruck (such as Stefan Martin) also adds to the midfield. I see Boyd as being better able to cover the ground and contribute in those marking contests.

I actually like the way Redpath is tracking (another unpopular view), as he provides a strong presence and he can actually kick it.
As his confidence develops I expect him to get better.

Once he replicates his junior footy abilities, forward all day long. He is big and mobile which is a big tick as a forward. He needs to stick some more marks and I really rate his goal kicking accuracy. He's smart at brining in smalls. He just needs time to develop as the once in a lifetime type prodigy a lot saw as a kid. I think find a ruck who can ruck and develop Boyd as and where he needs it.

[Ghost Dog]

I am not convinced that he will offer the value as a KPF that he could provide as a ruckman.

If we had Goldstein would we play him forward or Ruck. A mobile tall who can handle the ruck (such as Stefan Martin) also adds to the midfield. I see Boyd as being better able to cover the ground and contribute in those marking contests.

I actually like the way Redpath is tracking (another unpopular view), as he provides a strong presence and he can actually kick it.
As his confidence develops I expect him to get better.

I'm with you on Redpath. I think he has improved, although he looks lost at times, is coming of a limited amount of pre-seasons. Will only get better. He's a very traditional leading full forward. They are saying in the Herald we need another tall forward to go with Boyd. Already have one.

[Bulldog4life]

Next year I would like to see Boyd and Redpath together in the same side. Whether they share ruck duties is another question. Maybe

[1eyedog]

I am not convinced that he will offer the value as a KPF that he could provide as a ruckman.

If we had Goldstein would we play him forward or Ruck. A mobile tall who can handle the ruck (such as Stefan Martin) also adds to the midfield. I see Boyd as being better able to cover the ground and contribute in those marking contests.

I actually like the way Redpath is tracking (another unpopular view), as he provides a strong presence and he can actually kick it.
As his confidence develops I expect him to get better.

In all fairness to Boyd its a pretty narrow sample size that we have to work with. He is 19 and played 9 games with GWS and not many more for us. I fail to see how you or anyone for that matter could assume at this stage of his career that he has the potential to be a better ruck than forward. He has shown at a junior level against the best defenders that he was, not only the best forward in the land, but the best player in the land.

Tom Boyd will be a gun forward and we need to draft / trade astutely to a) get the type of ruckman we need into the club and b) do this as soon as possible so the Tom Boyd to the ruck paradigm is extinguished as rapidly as it flared up.

We need to go hard, hard, hard at Stefan Martin.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trades-2015-stefan-martin-cant-give-100-per-cent-guarantee-he-will-stay-in-brisbane/story-fniv5zar-1227524836861

[Rocco Jones]

Next year I would like to see Boyd and Redpath together in the same side. Whether they share ruck duties is another question. Maybe

I think the best chance of that happening is if Roughy is our 1st ruck. It would then give us the flexibility of playing an extra defender or forward and putting the other one in the ruck.

Redpath and Tom Boyd will both have to improve a fair bit for them to play in the same side as a preference. I think Stringer and Crameri offer us the flexibility to go taller/smaller depending on quality and at the moment, our smalls are better than our talls.

[Hotdog60]

Next year I would like to see Boyd and Redpath together in the same side. Whether they share ruck duties is another question. Maybe
I think if Redpath can improve his fitness a bit more he might be ok as CHF and give an option further up field.

[Bulldog4life]

I think the best chance of that happening is if Roughy is our 1st ruck. It would then give us the flexibility of playing an extra defender or forward and putting the other one in the ruck.

Redpath and Tom Boyd will both have to improve a fair bit for them to play in the same side as a preference. I think Stringer and Crameri offer us the flexibility to go taller/smaller depending on quality and at the moment, our smalls are better than our talls.

Good points. Maybe the Club might try both in the pre season together. Nothing to lose that way.

[Rocco Jones]

Good points. Maybe the Club might try both in the pre season together. Nothing to lose that way.

Yeah we did in the last pre-season and Round 1. A lot also has to do with the quality running depth offer. Next year we get Libba and Stevens back. I also see McLean and Daniel becoming regulars in their second year. We already have to fit in an army of HB runners as well. Added quality in running depth will put a higher value on that 22nd spot.

[Bulldog4life]

Yeah we did in the last pre-season and Round 1. A lot also has to do with the quality running depth offer. Next year we get Libba and Stevens back. I also see McLean and Daniel becoming regulars in their second year. We already have to fit in an army of HB runners as well. Added quality in running depth will put a higher value on that 22nd spot.

Also be interesting to see what happens with the reduced interchangers and with the sub disappearing.

[Mofra]

Also be interesting to see what happens with the reduced interchangers and with the sub disappearing.
Players will have to spend more time on the ground - will a pure first ruck still be effective or do we go for someone less effective at stoppages, better around the ground and reduce their no 1 ruck role to 70%?

[bulldogtragic]

Would or should we try to squeeze another year or two out of David Hale if he came to us a delisted free agent?

[azabob]

Would or should we try to squeeze another year or two out of David Hale if he came to us a delisted free agent?

Isnt he choosing to retire?

[bulldogtragic]

Isnt he choosing to retire?

Ben Hudson chose to retire twice. Offering a contract can change minds.

[Remi Moses]

Would or should we try to squeeze another year or two out of David Hale if he came to us a delisted free agent?

No he's cooked

[bulldogtragic]

Update:

Ayce gone.
Campbell & Minson still here, but did very little this season.
Roughy allegedly training as a ruckman.

No trades in, and no free agent rucks.


Surely we need a primary list ruck and a rookie list ruck at the drafts. Any suggestions as to a kid or state leaguer etc?

[Templeton31]

Update:

Ayce gone.
Campbell & Minson still here, but did very little this season.
Roughy allegedly training as a ruckman.

No trades in, and no free agent rucks.


Surely we need a primary list ruck and a rookie list ruck at the drafts. Any suggestions as to a kid or state leaguer etc?

Ayce back on the rookie list?

[soupman]

Ayce back on the rookie list?

Please no.

We know he isn't up to it. Lets take a chance on someone who might be.

[G-Mo77]

Ayce back on the rookie list?

Possibly. He's likely to play at Footscray anyway.

[KT31]

Ayce back on the rookie list?

Hell no.

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't waste time or a pick on a ruck. I'd put my hard earned on Campbell. He's going to have to sink or swim next year with support from Minson and potentially Roughie. I hate the idea of drafting young rucks and would rather put my eggs in the free agent / trade basket on someone who is serviceable over the next few years (if need be of course). Young rucks these days are too hit and miss, usually miss.

[jeemak]

Ayce on the rookie list is equally as stupid or smart as many other things we've all mentioned. If we come to a point where we're not seeing any value in available players at rookie time then stranger things than Ayce being picked up again could happen.

[bulldogtragic]

I guess we recruited Roughead to the ruck tonight. Hopefully a rookie list ruck later on.

[bornadog]

I guess we recruited Roughead to the ruck tonight. Hopefully a rookie list ruck later on.
He was originally recruited as a ruck

[comrade]

I guess we recruited Roughead to the ruck tonight. Hopefully a rookie list ruck later on.

Goetz or Galloway are names on the radar.

[Mofra]

Goetz or Galloway are names on the radar.
I'd be very surprised if we don't rookie a ruck

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'd be very surprised if we don't rookie a ruck

We now have nearly all the parts of our juggernaut.
Now for development, team building, training.
Put your seat belts on. The shuttle is about to be launched with rocket fuel and massive afterburners.

[bulldogtragic]

Recruited defenders to release Roughead to the ruck
Recruited Goetz to the rookie list.

Great after a couple of years to be finally rucked by Simon.

[Rocco Jones]

We have drafted a rookie ruck and 2 key backs to release Roughy meaning our ruck depth in terms of at least quantity is improve.

How do balance the depth with ruck time playing for Footscray. Say Roughy gets the #1 spot, with T Boyd/Redpath as the 2nd ruck. We then have:
- Minson and Campbell as out and out ruckmen
- I would want T Boyd/Redpath playing 2nd ruck role in VFL tuning for AFL
- Goetz

[GVGjr]

We have drafted a rookie ruck and 2 key backs to release Roughy meaning our ruck depth in terms of at least quantity is improve.

How do balance the depth with ruck time playing for Footscray. Say Roughy gets the #1 spot, with T Boyd/Redpath as the 2nd ruck. We then have:
- Minson and Campbell as out and out ruckmen
- I would want T Boyd/Redpath playing 2nd ruck role in VFL tuning for AFL
- Goetz

I suspect this won't play out well for Will Minson and he would be behind Campbell. If Redpath is playing for Footscray I don't think we will use him much in the ruck but it's a role he will have to fill from time to time if he is in the seniors.

Goetz might be played as a defender.

[boydogs]

Goetz might be played as a defender.

What makes you think that?

We have a lot more KPD depth (Collins, Adams, Cordy) than KPF depth (Redpath) for Footscray to use, and most rucks rest forward not back, so I would have thought he would play forward

[GVGjr]

What makes you think that?

We have a lot more KPD depth (Collins, Adams, Cordy) than KPF depth (Redpath) for Footscray to use, and most rucks rest forward not back, so I would have thought he would play forward

More around development.

[bornadog]

Form will decide ruck role (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-02-24/form-will-decide-ruck-role)

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge says that the NAB Challenge will provide players with an opportunity to press their claims for round one selection against Fremantle on March 27.

Beveridge will take an experienced squad to Canberra to face the Giants on Thursday, the second year coach telling reporters that the competition amongst the group for spots is healthy.

“I think it helps, it definitely helps,” Beveridge said.

“We get Libba back, we get Koby (Stevens) back, we got some experience in, in Jed (Adcock) and Matty Suckling, and some bright young prospects who’re already putting pressure on our second and third year players, so it’ll help as it does in any organisation.”

The first ruck position is one in particular that will be hotly contested across the next month of the preseason competition.

A handful shared the responsibility in 2015, and Beveridge said form will be the ultimate decider for who’s rewarded with the round one start.

“All of our potential candidates will play through there during the NAB series and whoever plays the best will grab the one or two, or even three spots for that first game against Fremantle,” he said.

“It’s between Will [Minson], it’s between Tommy Campbell, Tommy Boyd, Jack Redpath who we know pinch hit there last year, and Luke Goetz.

“It will take him a while, but it’s probably between those five guys, whether or not they’ll share the load or we’ve got one or two who have a 50/50 type approach.”

Bulldogs fans will get the chance to see four new faces step out onto StarTrak Oval on Thursday night, including former Hawthorn premiership player Suckling, ex-Lion Adcock, and draftees Kieran Collins and Marcus Adams.

Speaking to media from the historic Sun Theatre in Yarraville as part of as part of Western Bulldogs Community Club week, Beveridge said Suckling’s role was still evolving and Adams, at 23 years old, was a special case.

“They’ve all had good pre-seasons,” he said.

“Marcus comes to us as a mature athlete who we don’t need to protect from the rigours of the whole pre-season because he’s had a number of them, so where we would take first year players out, he’s stayed in and done the whole lot.

“And Kieran has been quite impressive in our match simulation and in his ability to absorb how we want him to play in our systems.

“So they both deserve to be in the squad and both will be playing on Thursday.

“Most of the boys have had pretty productive preseasons and we’re going to pick our best side this week on availability and we’ll probably give as many players as we can a chance in the second one.”

[bornadog]

No mention of Roughead in the ruck

[Bulldog4life]

No mention of Roughead in the ruck

I thought he mentioned Roughead as one of the 5 in the video but might be mistaken. Said Goetz was a project player or words to that effect.

[Maddog37]

I love how Bevo sets them against each other. It means their mindset is one of constant competition and increases training intensity.

[Twodogs]

I love how Bevo sets them against each other. It means their mindset is one of constant competition and increases training intensity.


He does it so well, doesn't he?

[Maddog37]

He does it so well, doesn't he?

They all love him and feel nurtured and safe in the environment. Always say how they are encouraged to play their way and utilise their natural talents. And yet they still feel a tremendous pressure to perform or they are out.

Fantastic way of keeping them confident and yet driven to prove themselves. It really is a joy to watch.

[whythelongface]

They all love him and feel nurtured and safe in the environment. Always say how they are encouraged to play their way and utilise their natural talents. And yet they still feel a tremendous pressure to perform or they are out.

Fantastic way of keeping them confident and yet driven to prove themselves. It really is a joy to watch.

He seems like a real people manager, being able to bring the best out in his players, encouraging them to follow their natural instincts, yet being able to pull them in line when required. It seems like the whole team wants to play for him. It just seems like a fantastic environment and feel priviliged, as a supporter, to have him on board.

[bulldogtragic]

Looks like Campbells gunna ruck us. Roughies gunna...

[jeemak]

It's probably a bit early.

At 25 Jordan's most likely to have fairly and squarely realised a hot day isn't what he needed and that he's now an old man that needs to relax at the start of preseason and perform at the end of it.

Reading into today's or family day's form on any level would be a silly thing to do.

Campbell played in a glorified scratch match as did Will, but we'll see how things go in three weeks time when the lads hit it out against each other in the final intra club match on the back of the final Challenge match.

[bulldogtragic]

It's probably a bit early.

At 25 Jordan's most likely to have fairly and squarely realised a hot day isn't what he needed and that he's now an old man that needs to relax at the start of preseason and perform at the end of it.

Reading into today's or family day's form on any level would be a silly thing to do.

Campbell played in a glorified scratch match as did Will, but we'll see how things go in three weeks time when the lads hit it out against each other in the final intra club match on the back of the final Challenge match.

Campbell is said to been ultra impressive pre season by judges I respect. Jordan looked a bit lost tonight, had a bad miss early and dropped a few sitters in the forward 50. I'm happy to back Bevo on the move, but of the three rucks (inc. Minson) Roughie did nothing to stop people asking why this move is happening. Also, if round one was next week Campbell & Minson would be playing. Roughie has got to work up the pecking order if Redders & Boyd are back forward and we play one or two rucks. Frankly I hope he does, or he finds another spot and rips the season to shreds. But the ruck move has polarised opinion and I think I'm getting lost in the middle.

[jeemak]

I think we're all mostly getting lost in the middle, which is where we need to be (without being lost) at this time of year which was the point of my post - and sorry if that didn't come through.

You only need to go back to half way through last year when we played Melbourne at the MCG where Roughead was being widely lauded as being our answer to the ruck conundrum we faced then (and continue to face), or note that after a good ten rounds away from senior footy Will was recalled because he offered security in the ruck area in the finals.

All of Roughead, Campbell and Minson were a touch pathetic last year but they all got their chances to play in the centre at stages, but only one of them has proved they are mildly proficient in a position away from ruck.

Campbell put his hand up with his goals tonight to be a ruck and forward, but ultimately, it's the first of four competitive hit outs that will happen before the season starts - at which point - all bets are off and preseaon can only buy one or two games in the senior side.

I'm a little bit surprised anyone is putting any analysis of substance into a game in which we dropped a few players just before the bounce, this game seriously didn't matter when it comes to figuring out how our team might line up at our peak.

[Hotdog60]

Will had 16 disposals to Tom's 8, after that it's Tom's advantage in front of goal that puts him ahead at this point in time.
Roughy is fair bit down the food chain after them. He will need to have the next couple of hit outs with a marked improvement to get the nod in round one as the main ruck.

I think I would persevere with Roughy at FB and let the likes of Collins and Adams develop on the lesser talls if they are good enough to hold a spot in the 22.

[bornadog]

I am still not convinced that Roughy is any good at Fullback. He had a shocking season there in 2014 and his previous season he was just ok. Happy for him to play on resting ruckman in the backline, but for me he is not the answer at FB, despite what BMac thought.

[Hotdog60]

I am still not convinced that Roughy is any good at Fullback. He had a shocking season there in 2014 and his previous season he was just ok. Happy for him to play on resting ruckman in the backline, but for me he is not the answer at FB, despite what BMac thought.

I agree but where else do you play him. It could be a defining year for Roughy.

[Mofra]

Will vs BTC, with Boyd/Redders (or both) chopping out.
Clearly Roughy is in trouble.

[Bulldog Joe]

While I had to watch in a crowded room with poor reception, my impression was that Will was clearly better in the ruck role and contributed around the ground.

[bornadog]

While I had to watch in a crowded room with poor reception, my impression was that Will was clearly better in the ruck role and contributed around the ground.

In pure rucking terms, Will is still our best tap ruck. Unfortunately in this day and age, you have to do more than that.

[jeemak]

In pure rucking terms, Will is still our best tap ruck. Unfortunately in this day and age, you have to do more than that.

Which I actually thought he did yesterday evening.

[LostDoggy]

At Half Time last night, I thought one thing was certain about who our first choice ruckman is likely to be. I was certain that neither Campbell, Minson or Roughy had done enough to cement the number one ruck role. I was thinking out loud - GIVE JONG FIRST CRACK!

Thankfully Minson and Campbell were much better in the second half. There's still plenty of improvement and mainly consistency that we need to see before we can feel OK about our ruck division.

[Bulldog Joe]

Which I actually thought he did yesterday evening.

Yes.
I thought Will showed improvement on his around the ground involvement.

People are calling for Campbell because he contributed on the scoreboard. He did kick well at goal, but the one from outside 50 came from a dumb free by GWS who gave him a push when he wasn't likely to get the ball. Great kick though.

The second goal was from a good positional pass delivered by Wilbur.

[Twodogs]

I think we're all mostly getting lost in the middle, which is where we need to be (without being lost) at this time of year which was the point of my post - and sorry if that didn't come through.

You only need to go back to half way through last year when we played Melbourne at the MCG where Roughead was being widely lauded as being our answer to the ruck conundrum we faced then (and continue to face), or note that after a good ten rounds away from senior footy Will was recalled because he offered security in the ruck area in the finals.

All of Roughead, Campbell and Minson were a touch pathetic last year but they all got their chances to play in the centre at stages, but only one of them has proved they are mildly proficient in a position away from ruck.

Campbell put his hand up with his goals tonight to be a ruck and forward, but ultimately, it's the first of four competitive hit outs that will happen before the season starts - at which point - all bets are off and preseaon can only buy one or two games in the senior side.

I'm a little bit surprised anyone is putting any analysis of substance into a game in which we dropped a few players just before the bounce, this game seriously didn't matter when it comes to figuring out how our team might line up at our peak.


It's been five months...

Any longer and we would be analyzing training sessions. Why cant footy go longer?

[always right]

I saw something last night I've never seen in Minson previously......poise. One piece of play in particular (third quarter I think) where he gathered a difficult ground ball on the wing and instead of simply throwing it onto his boot as is his wont.....he held up the play, considered his options and did a beautiful left foot pass inboard to a team mate.

I was surprised and impressed with some of his work around the ground last night. He looked as agile as I've seen him.

[whythelongface]

I saw something last night I've never seen in Minson previously......poise. One piece of play in particular (third quarter I think) where he gathered a difficult ground ball on the wing and instead of simply throwing it onto his boot as is his wont.....he held up the play, considered his options and did a beautiful left foot pass inboard to a team mate.

I was surprised and impressed with some of his work around the ground last night. He looked as agile as I've seen him.

What about his over the shoulder handball trying for a quick realise to create space for Bonts. It lead to a turnover but it was something that I haven't seen from Minson.

[bornadog]

Yes.
I thought Will showed improvement on his around the ground involvement.

People are calling for Campbell because he contributed on the scoreboard. He did kick well at goal, but the one from outside 50 came from a dumb free by GWS who gave him a push when he wasn't likely to get the ball. Great kick though.

The second goal was from a good positional pass delivered by Wilbur.

He is a thumping kick.

[SonofScray]

I saw something last night I've never seen in Minson previously......poise. One piece of play in particular (third quarter I think) where he gathered a difficult ground ball on the wing and instead of simply throwing it onto his boot as is his wont.....he held up the play, considered his options and did a beautiful left foot pass inboard to a team mate.

I was surprised and impressed with some of his work around the ground last night. He looked as agile as I've seen him.

Had a similar observation. Also a nice handball inside after scooping up the footy. He was playing the game at a more relaxed tempo in space than his usual bullocking smash his boot into everything. Was our best ruck option and is first choice IMO.

[lemmon]

I agree but where else do you play him. It could be a defining year for Roughy.

You don't. Tough on a guy in his prime but we have better key back and ruck options. Until he starts to show some form he gets the Hrovat/Hunter treatment at Footscray. Great guy, respected amongst the group but that doesn't make you best 22

[always right]

Watching big Maxie Gawn do a number on the Port ruckman we tried to poach. Looks like we were targeting the wrong bloke.

[Mofra]

Watching big Maxie Gawn do a number on the Port ruckman we tried to poach. Looks like we were targeting the wrong bloke.
We've had the trade gods smile on us with the trades that fell through in the past few years.

It's only pre-season but I don't think I'd be willing to trade Dunkley & Collins for Lobbe. Port fans savaging Lobbe on BF

[hujsh]

We've had the trade gods smile on us with the trades that fell through in the past few years.

It's only pre-season but I don't think I'd be willing to trade Dunkley & Collins for Lobbe. Port fans savaging Lobbe on BF

We'd have won 3 premierships with Matthew Bate

[Happy Days]

We'd have won 3 premierships with Matthew Bate

The pick we were thinking of putting up for Bate ended up netting us Talia, so maybe the trade wasn't such a bad idea after all?

[bulldogtragic]

We'd have won 3 premierships with Matthew Bate

How sweet it would've been to see our second ruckman Jesse White tap down to Bate who sprints away, quick hands to Dawes across half forward and kicks deep inside 50 to Scott Gumbleton and a recontracted Liam Jones. Threepeat in deed.

But the team we beat for these three flags had Djerkerra spike the ruck contest and tap down to Sherman who sprints away, quick hands to Vezpremi across half forward and kick deep into Tom Young resting forward.

[Ghost Dog]

Ruck is one of the most challenging positions on the field these days. Gone are the days of tap-ruckmen who could spend other parts of the game with hands on hips. I'd back Tom Campbell in to be our Minson replacement on current form.

[Mantis]

Ruck is one of the most challenging positions on the field these days. Gone are the days of tap-ruckmen who could spend other parts of the game with hands on hips. I'd back Tom Campbell in to be our Minson replacement on current form.

But is a 'Minson' type suited to the modern game?

I guess we will have to wait and see what the change in the rotation cap does to the way the game is played, but going on previous years you really need a mobile player as your no.1 ruck who can not only influence the ruck contest, but can also link up around the ground.

[Ghost Dog]

But is a 'Minson' type suited to the modern game?

I guess we will have to wait and see what the change in the rotation cap does to the way the game is played, but going on previous years you really need a mobile player as your no.1 ruck who can not only influence the ruck contest, but can also link up around the ground.

Yes ,I agree, what I meant was a replacement for Minson, not a Minson replacement. The fault is mine.
Of Minson, Roughhead, Cambell, one would have to say he has best round-ground mobility and skill.

[Bulldog Joe]

But is a 'Minson' type suited to the modern game?

I guess we will have to wait and see what the change in the rotation cap does to the way the game is played, but going on previous years you really need a mobile player as your no.1 ruck who can not only influence the ruck contest, but can also link up around the ground.

I think this is the real issue an Campbell may also struggle.

This is probably why they have taken a punt on someone as raw as Goetz, who offers a lot in the ability to cover ground.

If he can learn the game and stand up to the physical aspects he will be a much better fit for the modern game.

[1eyedog]

But is a 'Minson' type suited to the modern game?

I guess we will have to wait and see what the change in the rotation cap does to the way the game is played, but going on previous years you really need a mobile player as your no.1 ruck who can not only influence the ruck contest, but can also link up around the ground.

No, but searching for a flexible athletic ruckman who can cover the ground take a mark and actually ruck is akin to Australian cricket's endless search for the star all-rounder. I honestly thought Jeff White was going to change the way we viewed the role of the ruckman but he wasn't as good as I thought and finding someone 200 cm who can jump, mark and ruck is extremely difficult. I guess that's why we're so interested in Roughie and whether he can make it. I suppose its why Ayce got an extended run at it as well. It seems to be what we are looking for and i can't see Campbell or Minson getting to more contests than they are or developing any new tricks.

I think we'll persist with Roughie in much the same way as Ayce, positive for Roughie is he can go back and play if it doesn't work out.

[bulldogtragic]

Roughy won the hit outs. I guess he might be the ruckman Bevo has been talking about if he maintain form in the ruck.

[GVGjr]

Very good effort from Roughy

[azabob]

Very good effort from Roughy

I thought he and Boyd worked really well together.

[bornadog]

Out rucked the opposition and I like the way he works around the ground. Fingers crossed he stays injury free.

[1eyedog]

Very impressed with Roughie's game today thought he was excellent.

[lemmon]

It was probably the first time I've seen Roughy in the way he was described as a junior: very efficient tap ruckman, moves and jumps well, stays involved in the contest and can take a mark up forward. Excellent display against two pretty good Freo rucks

[bornadog]

It was probably the first time I've seen Roughy in the way he was described as a junior: very efficient tap ruckman, moves and jumps well, stays involved in the contest and can take a mark up forward. Excellent display against two pretty good Freo rucks

The most ridiculous decision to try and make him into a fullback.

[bulldogtragic]

The most ridiculous decision to try and make him into a fullback.

Hawthorn and Brian Lake disagree, three premierships and a Norm Smith later.

[bulldogtragic]

Question. If yesterday is what is to be expected most weeks, does Will Minson have the capability to do the role this year?

[azabob]

Question. If yesterday is what is to be expected most weeks, does Will Minson have the capability to do the role this year?

I think the question also needs to be asked about Campbell as well.

[Ghost Dog]

I think the question also needs to be asked about Campbell as well.

Why? Our blokes are only a knock or a tear away from injury in this game. It's comforting to have the depth. Only last year Wilbur came out and held his own against Goldstien, the best ruck in the comp.
The coach is full of praise for Tom Campbell and he might have played had he not rolled an ankle.

[Ghost Dog]

No, but searching for a flexible athletic ruckman who can cover the ground take a mark and actually ruck is akin to Australian cricket's endless search for the star all-rounder. I honestly thought Jeff White was going to change the way we viewed the role of the ruckman but he wasn't as good as I thought and finding someone 200 cm who can jump, mark and ruck is extremely difficult. I guess that's why we're so interested in Roughie and whether he can make it. I suppose its why Ayce got an extended run at it as well. It seems to be what we are looking for and i can't see Campbell or Minson getting to more contests than they are or developing any new tricks.

I think we'll persist with Roughie in much the same way as Ayce, positive for Roughie is he can go back and play if it doesn't work out.

I think Campbell is looking more mobile than last year and IIRC Tom C is only 23 or 24. If I'm right, then he has plenty of time to develop his game.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Out rucked the opposition and I like the way he works around the ground. Fingers crossed he stays injury free.

Both Roughead and Boyd were good. Having Sandilands out undoubtedly helped. The big question will be to see if Roughy can physically hold his form given his shoulder problems in the past. Boyd looks a better player when rucking without the constant pressure that playing as a permanent forward brings. Both Campbell and Minson lack mobility although Campbell has looked a lot better this year and should eventually force himself into the team.

[The Underdog]

Question. If yesterday is what is to be expected most weeks, does Will Minson have the capability to do the role this year?

I think Campbell was clearly viewed as the number 1 ruck coming in and would have played if not for the injury. Roughy's performance yesterday makes it a more palatable situation and gives a bit more competition. I suspect Minson is viewed as depth at this point. Unfortunately he had/has no value from a trade perspective.

[GVGjr]

Both Roughead and Boyd were good. Having Sandilands out undoubtedly helped. The big question will be to see if Roughy can physically hold his form given his shoulder problems in the past. Boyd looks a better player when rucking without the constant pressure that playing as a permanent forward brings. Both Campbell and Minson lack mobility although Campbell has looked a lot better this year and should eventually force himself into the team.

We all know we made a play for Martin and then Lobbe last season and I think we also inquired about Zac Smith. Given the 3 ruckman we had I wonder what the idea was about chasing the other guys?

[bulldogtragic]

We all know we made a play for Martin and then Lobbe last season and I think we also inquired about Zac Smith. Given the 3 ruckman we had I wonder what the idea was about chasing the other guys?

With hindsight, the equation is Lobbe or Collins & Dunkley. (And Rookie-ing a project ruckman) I'm happy.

[GVGjr]

With hindsight, the equation is Lobbe or Collins & Dunkley. (And Rookie-ing a project ruckman) I'm happy.

It doesn't explain why we were so keen to look elsewhere though.

[bulldogtragic]

It doesn't explain why we were so keen to look elsewhere though.

True. Maybe we thought we could offload Will and his salary or most of his salary as part of wider list management idea. We were not recontracting Grant during the trade period either. So no doubt various thoughts were going on. With Minson gone this year we probably need to add another mature ruckman this off season. Maybe a second rounder and a good fringe player to get a semi decent one. Add Kruezer to your list of alleged chasing too.

[GVGjr]

True. Maybe we thought we could offload Will and his salary or most of his salary as part of wider list management idea. We were not recontracting Grant during the trade period either. So no doubt various thoughts were going on. With Minson gone this year we probably need to add another mature ruckman this off season. Maybe a second rounder and a good fringe player to get a semi decent one. Add Kruezer to your list of alleged chasing too.

It's interesting to me. As much as we are patting Roughy on the back for his performance yesterday there is a reasonable chance he might not have played if just one of those deals/offers went through.

We cast a wide net for ruckman last year and clearly Roughead and Campbell aren't really first choices for the coach and match committee. I suppose they have the season to remove any doubt. You would have to think this will be Will's last year unless something pretty special happens and Goetz is a long way off.

I think there is a fair chance we will again be in the market for a ruckman next year as well.

[Bulldog4life]

Both Roughead and Boyd were good. Having Sandilands out undoubtedly helped. The big question will be to see if Roughy can physically hold his form given his shoulder problems in the past. Boyd looks a better player when rucking without the constant pressure that playing as a permanent forward brings. Both Campbell and Minson lack mobility although Campbell has looked a lot better this year and should eventually force himself into the team.

And one of their Ruckmen Clarke was injured at the opening bounce too which helped.

[bulldogtragic]

It's interesting to me. As much as we are patting Roughy on the back for his performance yesterday there is a reasonable chance he might not have played if just one of those deals/offers went through.

We cast a wide net for ruckman last year and clearly Roughead and Campbell aren't really first choices for the coach and match committee. I suppose they have the season to remove any doubt. You would have to think this will be Will's last year unless something pretty special happens and Goetz is a long way off.

I think there is a fair chance we will again be in the market for a ruckman next year as well.

I hope we are in the market, we need to be as Minson is as good as gone. Even Bellchambers as a delisted FA would be worth a punt if we can't do better. Zac Clarke is a free agent and I'd be all over that as it costs no picks.

[Testekill]

Roughy has seized the first ruck spot with both hands at the moment. Clarke & Griffen weren't in great form last week and he has been consistently beating Hickey in the ruck tonight.

[bulldogtragic]

Four rounds in and Roughy still doing enough in my book. Can we go another ruck though? I prefer Boyd as a forward for structure and if the number 1 goes down, Jong rucks. Campbell & Roughy with Boyd surely covers the ruck and relief in defence and up forward. Would we lose that much run?

[SonofScray]

Four rounds in and Roughy still doing enough in my book. Can we go another ruck though? I prefer Boyd as a forward for structure and if the number 1 goes down, Jong rucks. Campbell & Roughy with Boyd surely covers the ruck and relief in defence and up forward. Would we lose that much run?

A few nervous moments tonight, Roughie is absolutely doing enough but we are going to get burned hard by him being a bit brittle. He is a real lionhearted playing through the knocks and I love him for it, but I get the feeling he'll go down soon and we'll be short an option in the ruck. I don't want Boyd carrying that role, I want him inside the 50 more often.

[Ozza]

Its certainly a concern that Roughy goes down with a 'short term' injury every week mid game.

[Mantis]

Its certainly a concern that Roughy goes down with a 'short term' injury every week mid game.

It isn't helping Boyd either... He seems to battling under the extra workload being placed upon him and it's not helping his development as a key forward, our forward structure or his body.

Our ideal set-up is our no.1 ruck plays 85% game time as a pure ruckman and Boyd fills the gap, but we are a long from that at present. If Roughy can't play that role then it's time to bring someone else to assist.

[Ozza]

It isn't helping Boyd either... He seems to battling under the extra workload being placed upon him and it's not helping his development as a key forward our forward structure or his body.

Our ideal set-up is our no.1 ruck plays 85% game time as a pure ruckman and Boyd fills the gap, but we are a long from that at present. If Roughy can't play that role then it's time to bring someone else to assist.

Agree. Boyd is spending too much time on the ball. It would be fantastic if Roughead could handle the workload of a No.1 ruck - but its hard to see him being able to do it week in, week out.

[Sedat]

Our ideal set-up is our no.1 ruck plays 85% game time as a pure ruckman and Boyd fills the gap, but we are a long from that at present. If Roughy can't play that role then it's time to bring someone else to assist.
I'm not sure we will be able to cope with the running demands of the modern game if we bring in a tall for a small to assist in ruck duties. From my perspective we either replace Roughy in the team or we keep him in as the primary ruck - our game plan relies heavily on gut running both ways and I fear we will take the edge off this advantage if we get the tall/small mix too top-heavy.

[Mantis]

I'm not sure we will be able to cope with the running demands of the modern game if we bring in a tall for a small to assist in ruck duties. From my perspective we either replace Roughy in the team or we keep him in as the primary ruck - our game plan relies heavily on gut running both ways and I fear we will take the edge off this advantage if we get the tall/small mix too top-heavy.

But the advantage we had is already gone with the loss of Murf & JJ.

With games coming up against teams with tall forwardlines (and good rucks) we really have to look at giving Roughead & Boyd some support.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure we will be able to cope with the running demands of the modern game if we bring in a tall for a small to assist in ruck duties. From my perspective we either replace Roughy in the team or we keep him in as the primary ruck - our game plan relies heavily on gut running both ways and I fear we will take the edge off this advantage if we get the tall/small mix too top-heavy.

I still think we can if we brought in say a Campbell and roughy play the second ruck role. Hawks are still the measuring stick and they do it with two ruck man, and play Gunston as a FF.

[Mantis]

I still think we can if we brought in say a Campbell and roughy play the second ruck role. Hawks are still the measuring stick and they do it with two ruck man, and play Gunston as a FF.

Gunston is pretty much the same size as Stringer.

[bornadog]

Gunston is pretty much the same size as Stringer.

Ok, Shoenmakers (195cm)

[1eyedog]

Adams' form means its no longer as simple as sending Roughie back and promoting Campbell. It's almost the case now where if Roughie can't ruck he's out of the team, so he's competing for a spot with Campbell and Minson.

Can Roughie play back if Hamling plays forward and we bring in Campbell?

[Mantis]

Adams' form means its no longer as simple as sending Roughie back and promoting Campbell. It's almost the case now where if Roughie can't ruck he's out of the team, so he's competing for a spot with Campbell and Minson.



In 2 weeks time we play North (Petrie, Waite & Brown).. The following week we play Adel (Jenkins, Walker & Lynch). How do you see us matching up against those teams.. Play Morris tall?

With both teams also having good mid/ small forwards it's certainly going to stretch us.

[1eyedog]

In 2 weeks time we play North (Petrie, Waite & Brown).. The following week we play Adel (Jenkins, Walker & Lynch). How do you see us matching up against those teams.. Play Morris tall?

With both teams also having good mid/ small forwards it's certainly going to stretch us.

North are a concern. I think we have the personnel to play on Adelaide's talls minus Roughie, Lynch doesn't need a tall.

[Sedat]

In 2 weeks time we play North (Petrie, Waite & Brown).. The following week we play Adel (Jenkins, Walker & Lynch). How do you see us matching up against those teams.. Play Morris tall?

With both teams also having good mid/ small forwards it's certainly going to stretch us.
It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. It we rob our run in the midfield, it will give both Norf and Adelaide more opportunity to control the game from the middle (where I reckon we have the edge on both teams), which will then give their tall forwards far greater supply.

I'm not comfortable with our current back 6 on paper being able to control both those forward lines, but then again we are conceding 54 points a game this year so it comes back to team defence and structuring up to make sure there is limited clean and easy ball for the opposition forwards to feast on.

There is definite merit in both philosophies - interesting MC selection meetings coming up.

[bornadog]

It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. It we rob our run in the midfield, it will give both Norf and Adelaide more opportunity to control the game from the middle (where I reckon we have the edge on both teams), which will then give their tall forwards far greater supply.

I'm not comfortable with our current back 6 on paper being able to control both those forward lines, but then again we are conceding 54 points a game this year so it comes back to team defence and structuring up to make sure there is limited clean and easy ball for the opposition forwards to feast on.

There is definite merit in both philosophies - interesting MC selection meetings coming up.

On the other hand, last time we played North in 2015, this was the team:


Player
Lachlan Hunter
Matthew Boyd
Mitchell Wallis
Jackson Macrae
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Bontempelli
Robert Murphy
Liam Picken
Shane Biggs
Jake Stringer
Jason Johannisen
Easton Wood
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Jarrad Grant
Stewart Crameri
Dale Morris
Jordan Roughead
Joel Hamling
Tory Dickson
Jack Redpath
Zaine Cordy

Petrie, Brown and Waite also played.

We kept them to 10 goals.

[soupman]

In 2 weeks time we play North (Petrie, Waite & Brown).. The following week we play Adel (Jenkins, Walker & Lynch). How do you see us matching up against those teams.. Play Morris tall?

With both teams also having good mid/ small forwards it's certainly going to stretch us.

Against North I see Adams and hamling being sufficient. The way we set up means that these two (plus Wood) should always be able to make the contest that see's any of the three talls mark the ball. The only time they'll get a clear size mismatch on them will be if they lead very wide. Couple that with Roughead likely pushing into defence as practiced against Carlton and I think we will be alright.

[lemmon]

Against North I see Adams and hamling being sufficient. The way we set up means that these two (plus Wood) should always be able to make the contest that see's any of the three talls mark the ball. The only time they'll get a clear size mismatch on them will be if they lead very wide. Couple that with Roughead likely pushing into defence as practiced against Carlton and I think we will be alright.

Agree with that. I think the taller, slower type tends to suit Wood anyway in that it gives him more freedom to zone off knowing he's less likely to be burnt at ground level if there's a spill. In the one on ones he gives up an inch but goes a long way to making up for it with his leap...I'm not sure I can remember him being beaten in a marking contest - he absolutely destroyed Pavlich in Round 1 when matched up there.

[always right]

Against North I see Adams and hamling being sufficient. The way we set up means that these two (plus Wood) should always be able to make the contest that see's any of the three talls mark the ball. The only time they'll get a clear size mismatch on them will be if they lead very wide. Couple that with Roughead likely pushing into defence as practiced against Carlton and I think we will be alright.
Agree. Reckon Adams will be the ideal matchup on Waite. Hamling to play on Petrie. Morris on Brown.

What I am going to miss in the North game is the re-enactment of JJ running away from Ben Brown (last year). One of the funniest things I've seen in years. Brown looked like he was running into a wind tunnel.

[bulldogtragic]

Have we given up on Minno? For all the weekly discussions on the in's/out's, VFL talk and discussions about the optimal ruck combos I can't remember one post referencing Minno getting back into the 22 or staying in the plans.

[ledge]

I love Minson, he has strength and often does some amazing things in the VFL, I think he plays depending on opposition match up.
Roughead is injury prone and needs a rest sometime during the year.

[Hotdog60]

I watched 2 and a bit quarters of the VFL yesterday and Minno did do much in the ruck or around the ground.

I get a feeling that he will either move on at seasons end or retire. I don't think the Bulldogs will offer a contract.

[Ozza]

It is a bit sad after the service he has given the club - but barring injury, I think he is finished with us.

Handy back up - but just doesn't have the right offering for our style of game.

[Happy Days]

Have we given up on Minno? For all the weekly discussions on the in's/out's, VFL talk and discussions about the optimal ruck combos I can't remember one post referencing Minno getting back into the 22 or staying in the plans.

I don't think anyone saw Roughead being this good.

I do think everyone sees Roughead going down at some point. Minson will get another chance.

[always right]

Roughead and Campbell combo appears to spell the end of Will who has been reduced to a contingency role. Sad end to the career of a loyal servant of the club.

[SlimPickens]

Roughead and Campbell combo appears to spell the end of Will who has been reduced to a contingency role. Sad end to the career of a loyal servant of the club.

Will is the back up to two Ruckman in their prime age to compete. Think we will see Will play some senior footy, plus he will have an incredibly important role with the further development of TC/Rough/Boyd/Goetz.

Personally I think it is great for our club that our younger rucks are taking the step up to keep Will out of the team.

[Rocket Science]

"Port Adelaide Power - OUTS

Matthew Lobbe (omitted)"

It's not all on him at Alberton, clearly, but there you go.

[1eyedog]

Its very considerate of shit players to keep declining our offers.

[bornadog]

Its very considerate of shit players to keep declining our offers.

I am so glad Dawes chose Melbourne over us.

[1eyedog]

I'm glader that Gumbie went to Freo!

[bulldogtragic]

Admittedly it's a small sample size, but can we say that Campbell is the best ruck we have? I've been impressed with him the last two weeks.

[bornadog]

Admittedly it's a small sample size, but can we say that Campbell is the best ruck we have? I've been impressed with him the last two weeks.

Agreed. Roughie hasn't been bad in the ruck, but not very damaging around the ground.

[G-Mo77]

Admittedly it's a small sample size, but can we say that Campbell is the best ruck we have? I've been impressed with him the last two weeks.

At this stage I'd have him #1 right now. I think it's going to be a revolving door position though. Minson will get his shot at some stage as well.

[KT31]

Admittedly it's a small sample size, but can we say that Campbell is the best ruck we have? I've been impressed with him the last two weeks.

Agree BT, I have also been very impressed with Tom the last couple of weeks and think he is the best option for us going forward.

[1eyedog]

Yeah I think TC offers more than Will around the ground and more than Roughie in the middle.

[Mantis]

Agreed. Roughie hasn't been bad in the ruck, but not very damaging around the ground.

Roughy had no impact at all around the ground last night... He just gets whacked around in aerial contests far too often... Having bung shoulders doesn't help in this regard.

[azabob]

According to the current bun we are interested in gold coast ruckman Tom Nicholls. He is 24 and only played 34 games.

[GVGjr]

According to the current bun we are interested in gold coast ruckman Tom Nicholls. He is 24 and only played 34 games.

The search for a ruckman continues despite the form of Roughead and Campbell. Nicholls has some strings to his bow and could be a good option.

[bulldogtragic]

The search for a ruckman continues despite the form of Roughead and Campbell. Nicholls has some strings to his bow and could be a good option.

What's his market value?

[comrade]

With Minno on the way out, we need another ready made ruck given the injury history of Rough and TC.

[azabob]

What's his market value?

He is currently their number 1 ruck and played five games this year. I think he was one of their 17 year old selections.

[GVGjr]

What's his market value?

In terms of dollars or trade value?

I have no idea in terms of how much a contract would need to be but our selling point would be around finals potential over the next few years. If players can't see that do we really need them?
GC would want a player and a good draft pick I would suspect.

[comrade]

Package him up with Saad with our first and Hrovat?

[bulldogtragic]

In terms of dollars or trade value?

I have no idea in terms of how much a contract would need to be but our selling point would be around finals potential over the next few years. If players can't see that do we really need them?
GC would want a player and a good draft pick I would suspect.

Can we retrospectively package Jarrad Grant in it?