Bulldogs 'not moving aside' for soccer Grand Final

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-04-16/were-not-moving-aside?utm_medium=RSS)

Agreed, we are playing for 4 points and we play our best footy at Eithad, so soccer can find another venue. In fact they can go to Kardinia Park

[BulldogBelle]

Ask for half million if they want it or to bad.
l prefer us to keep it and soccer to go where ever. It is footy season and the ground is ours.
Maybe soccer should start the season earlier or have a shorter season if they want the footy venues.

[Axe Man]

Have to feel for Victory if they are forced to play what should be a home grand final interstate. It's not their fault the A League have screwed this up.

I wouldn't mind too much if we moved the game to Geelong (or even Whitten Oval), if we were handsomely compensated. Ordinarily a game v Freo at Etihad means we would be writing out a cheque.

[bulldogtragic]

Compo helps fix it. Anyone know a good class action lawyer to negotiate for us? :)

[whythelongface]

Non issue as the Victory won't make the GF. ;)

[chef]

Loooking at the big picture, Victory should get the dome for a Grand final

[Twodogs]

I'd prefer we worked with Victory to try and sort out a solution that benefits everybody. We have something they want they might but if they are prepared to give something up then maybe we can change the venue of our game.

[Webby]

If they really, really needed to, they could move our game to 7:40 the night before (Sat night) at the MCG...

Otherwise, they could offer us a few hundred grand to move it to Geelong... Although I think Freo could actually lay claim to playing Kardiniaan Park better than any team in the country!

Seriously, if push really came to shove, we could be open to a couple hundred grand and a shift to the night before at the G..!?

[bornadog]

Loooking at the big picture, Victory should get the dome for a Grand final

The big picture for me is the 4 points.

[chef]

The big picture for me is the 4 points.

Grand final has got to take precedence to me.

[Sedat]

I'd prefer we worked with Victory to try and sort out a solution that benefits everybody. We have something they want they might but if they are prepared to give something up then maybe we can change the venue of our game.
Agreed. Let's use this to our advantage and obtain an unexpected financial windfall for the club. As a lover of both codes, I hate the whole soccer vs football rhetoric that is spewed forth by over-zealous people on both sides of the equation. Playing Freo at the MCG will not disadvantage us any more - in fact it would be a wonderful test for our young players to experience a finals-like intensity on the ground where the finals are held in Melbourne.

If Victory were to host the GF, it really should be at Etihad - show us the money

[BulldogBelle]

Grand final has got to take precedence to me.

AFL should not give into soccer. They could have booked the ground but they didn't.
It is Footy season now, let the A league work it out $$$.

PS. As you can tell l dont care for soccer.

[chef]

AFL should not give into soccer. They could have booked the ground but they didn't.
It is Footy season now, let the A league work it out $$$.

PS. As you can tell l dont care for soccer.

Fair enough, I don't get this AFL v Soccer thing.

[SonofScray]

I am OK with a bit of bluster and making the FFA pay dearly for their poor planning. Would prefer we played the game as scheduled but to grab a few 100k out of nowhere can't hurt, especially if we can still play in melbourne.

[Flamethrower]

How is this still a story? The Melbourne Victory have already notified their members that if they earn the right to host the A League Final, it will be played on the Friday night at the MCG. (According to one of my work collegues who is a foundation member of the Victory).

[boydogs]

How is this still a story? The Melbourne Victory have already notified their members that if they earn the right to host the A League Final, it will be played on the Friday night at the MCG. (According to one of my work collegues who is a foundation member of the Victory).

The article says the MCG has been ruled out

Soccer can go to Kardinia Park, unless we want to do them a favour in exchange for $2 million :)

[azabob]

Hang on a minute....

I am 99.9%, certain there is a thread on this very forum, with majority of support from the posters, of exploring the option of playing AFL games against interstate clubs at Geelong.

So isnt this a perfect opportunity to do so? Kill two birds with one stone by showing both the AFL and telstra dome there are other options...

[Remi Moses]

The big picture for me is the 4 points.

Short sighted view , and unfortunately it turns into a sporting peeing Comp.
Commonsense should prevail for all parties.

[Remi Moses]

Hang on a minute....

I am 99.9%, certain there is a thread on this very forum, with majority of support from the posters, of exploring the option of playing AFL games against interstate clubs at Geelong.

So isnt this a perfect opportunity to do so? Kill two birds with one stone by showing both the AFL and telstra dome there are other options...

Bang on . We'll play games in Ballarat Cairns and wherever, and yet we have an issue with a game against Freo?
We'll be writing out another check to Etihad anyway, so why not cash in by playing in Geelong or the G ?

[bornadog]

Short sighted view , and unfortunately it turns into a sporting peeing Comp.
Commonsense should prevail for all parties.

Why is it short sighted? My number one sport is AFL.

[bornadog]

Hang on a minute....

I am 99.9%, certain there is a thread on this very forum, with majority of support from the posters, of exploring the option of playing AFL games against interstate clubs at Geelong.

So isnt this a perfect opportunity to do so? Kill two birds with one stone by showing both the AFL and telstra dome there are other options...

So what happens to all reserved seat holders, sponsors, advertising, etc. Its a bit late to change in the middle of the year.

[BulldogBelle]

So what happens to all reserved seat holders, sponsors, advertising, etc. Its a bit late to change in the middle of the year.

Spot on!

[Bulldog4life]

It is not a matter of AFL v Soccer. Whoever has booked the ground for that particular date gets it. Simple really. If the other code didn't do its due diligence unfortunately that is just bad management and bad luck.

[LostDoggy]

We get royally done over by Etihad and now they want to host the A League Grand Final at our expense. They would make infinitely more from that game than ours against Freo. I say tell them to go jump. Oh, sure, if they want to front up a new stadium deal we can be reasonable, otherwise I'd do it just to piss off Etihad management.

[BulldogBelle]

It is not a matter of AFL v Soccer. Whoever has booked the ground for that particular date gets it. Simple really. If the other code didn't do its due diligence unfortunately that is just bad management and bad luck.

Common sense really.

[Go_Dogs]

Its a good bit of posturing to ensure we get a good offer to move the game.

I'm not too fussed either way to be honest, but if we move, we do so under significant duress meaning more compensation.

[chef]

Short sighted view , and unfortunately it turns into a sporting peeing Comp.
Commonsense should prevail for all parties.
Yep, got to think about what's good for everybody. Would be short sighted not too.

[Mantis]

Agreed, we are playing for 4 points and we play our best footy at Etihad, so soccer can find another venue. In fact they can go to Kardinia Park

Based on what?

Our W/L ratio was better at other venues last year as opposed to ES.

ES - 29%
Other - 38%

[bornadog]

Based on what?

Our W/L ratio was better at other venues last year as opposed to ES.

ES - 29%
Other - 38%

We only won 7 games last year so percentages mean nothing.

Of all the modern day grounds used, our best winning percentage is at Manuka Oval, (but again only played 9 games for 7 wins), then comes Docklands. MCG sits at 39.65% and then you don't want to look at the rest its so bad. :D

[G-Mo77]

Maybe we could work out an alliance with them. Nothing wrong with a bit of cross promotion. You consider how big soccer is getting it may work in our favor.

[westdog54]

Its a good bit of posturing to ensure we get a good offer to move the game.

I'm not too fussed either way to be honest, but if we move, we do so under significant duress meaning more compensation.

Yep, agree.

It sounding very similar to what PG was saying when Griff declared that he wanted a trade.

A deal will more than likely be worked out that will be beeficial to us. We hold all the cards here.

[azabob]

So what happens to all reserved seat holders, sponsors, advertising, etc. Its a bit late to change in the middle of the year.

Ah, I'm fairly sure Geelong has an actual grandstand that has reserved seating and I'm fairly sure Geelong also have advertising space we could use.

[bornadog]

Ah, I'm fairly sure Geelong has an actual grandstand that has reserved seating and I'm fairly sure Geelong also have advertising space we could use.

but I don't want to go to Geelong. I bought two reserved seats for the year (have done so since Docklands built) so why should I be inconvenienced just because a rival competition can't book a stadium.

[WBFC4FFC]

Poor planning by the FFA. They are trying to paint the Bullies and AFL as the bad guys. At least the AFL is backing us on this.

More to the point, tax payers money was spent to build AAMiI Park, which holds 30,000! Why it is not deemed suitable is staggering! It was good enough in Jan for the Asia Cup including the Socceroos game, it is good enough for the A-League!

PS: In the interest of full-disclosure, I am a City fan.

[Twodogs]

but I don't want to go to Geelong. I bought two reserved seats for the year (have done so since Docklands built) so why should I be inconvenienced just because a rival competition can't book a stadium.

Because we have them over a barrel.

[Maddog37]

Pretty sure it is not our decision anyway.

If the AFL want us to play the game elsewhere then we will. Suggesting it is up to the Doggies solely is mirthful.

[chef]

Because we have them over a barrel.

We dont have a choice, we get told what to do and we just do it.

[bornadog]

We dont have a choice, we get told what to do and we just do it.

What would Eddy do?

[LostDoggy]

but I don't want to go to Geelong. I bought two reserved seats for the year (have done so since Docklands built) so why should I be inconvenienced just because a rival competition can't book a stadium.

I have to agree with this. This isn't just about the players and the actual game being played - I believe it is about all the members, supporters, sponsors etc that will be put out.

Unless there is an agreement where the bulldogs as a football club win out, I am against.

I also see our game is at 1:10. Is it possible to turn the stadium around for a night time Grand Final. Surely it would only take some forward planning (gates open at 6 - game at 8 in prime time etc etc - gives the stadium a couple of hours to clean, restock - surely this only comes down to manpower and planning?)

[chef]

What would Eddy do?

Make a big deal about it to calm the natives and then accept whatever decision the AFL made.

[boydogs]

It is not a matter of AFL v Soccer. Whoever has booked the ground for that particular date gets it. Simple really. If the other code didn't do its due diligence unfortunately that is just bad management and bad luck.

In fairness to Soccer, they vary the location of the final based on who is playing. You can't hold bookings in Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, Wellington & Brisbane just in case a team from that city finishes on top

$2 million :)

[Twodogs]

In fairness to Soccer, they vary the location of the final based on who is playing. You can't hold bookings in Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, Wellington & Brisbane just in case a team from that city finishes on top

$2 million :)

Yep. Something like that.

[Twodogs]

What would Eddy do?

What would David Stevenson do?

[soupman]

I also see our game is at 1:10. Is it possible to turn the stadium around for a night time Grand Final. Surely it would only take some forward planning (gates open at 6 - game at 8 in prime time etc etc - gives the stadium a couple of hours to clean, restock - surely this only comes down to manpower and planning?)
No chance. They'll want to bring the lower level seating in, which will take ages. Need to repaint the oval, which would mean they have to get rid of the AFL markings and sponsors and add the soccer ones, which would look crap. Also the surface would be all chopped up from our match, and considering the ball in soccer rolls they would want a great surface.

TBH for those Victory fans that get tickets this could be a blessing in disguise. Certainly having experienced soccer at both Etihad and Aami (albeit as a Heart fan) Aami Park is so far ahead as a soccer venue its not funny.

Better surface, better seats and a much much much better atmosphere. The downside is 15-20,000 people miss out.

[LostDoggy]

No chance. They'll want to bring the lower level seating in, which will take ages. Need to repaint the oval, which would mean they have to get rid of the AFL markings and sponsors and add the soccer ones, which would look crap. Also the surface would be all chopped up from our match, and considering the ball in soccer rolls they would want a great surface.

TBH for those Victory fans that get tickets this could be a blessing in disguise. Certainly having experienced soccer at both Etihad and Aami (albeit as a Heart fan) Aami Park is so far ahead as a soccer venue its not funny.

Better surface, better seats and a much much much better atmosphere. The downside is 15-20,000 people miss out.

So would the game the previous evening need to be moved also if it takes that much to get the ground up to standard? If so I definitely can't see AFL and FFA coming to terms.

[jeemak]

So would the game the previous evening need to be moved also if it takes that much to get the ground up to standard? If so I definitely can't see AFL and FFA coming to terms.

No, it's easily done over night.

Plus with the digital signage it's not so much a manual process anymore.

[soupman]

So would the game the previous evening need to be moved also if it takes that much to get the ground up to standard? If so I definitely can't see AFL and FFA coming to terms.

They could do it in that time frame I imagine, although the ground would still look like crap with all the AFL sponsors painted over.

[azabob]

but I don't want to go to Geelong. I bought two reserved seats for the year (have done so since Docklands built) so why should I be inconvenienced just because a rival competition can't book a stadium.

Fair enough. I also have two seats, like you on level 2 and wouldn't mind going to Geelong for one game.

[GVGjr]

It would have to be very good offer for us to move the game to Geelong. I'd be looking for 300K plus profits from the game.
I really like that we have linked our reasons for not wanting to move the game to our premiership points ambitions. The onus is on someone coming in with a substantial offer to now change our mind.

[1eyedog]

AFL should not give into soccer. They could have booked the ground but they didn't.
It is Footy season now, let the A league work it out $$$.

PS. As you can tell l dont care for soccer.

Oh god soccer... What? Does Bont like it?

[ReLoad]

This is a near perfect scenario for us, and here is why:

Firstly we are playing a game that is expected to attract a small crowd. lets be honest Freo have less supporters than a bucket of hot chips here in Melbourne.
We need a great media spin to move the game, so that the AFL doesnt lose face.

So lets move the game to the WO.

The A-Leauge can spend 200k on making the ground temporarily match suitable, and pay us another 300k for the inconvenience.
The AFL "wins" as they can spin it as a hark back to the suburban footy etc, the media will get a kick out of it.
Us supporters will love it
We will have a huge home ground advantage.
We will make a stack of coin on merch/food


And best of all we get to have a real "Home game"

[Webby]

This is a near perfect scenario for us, and here is why:

Firstly we are playing a game that is expected to attract a small crowd. lets be honest Freo have less supporters than a bucket of hot chips here in Melbourne.
We need a great media spin to move the game, so that the AFL doesnt lose face.

So lets move the game to the WO.

The A-Leauge can spend 200k on making the ground temporarily match suitable, and pay us another 300k for the inconvenience.
The AFL "wins" as they can spin it as a hark back to the suburban footy etc, the media will get a kick out of it.
Us supporters will love it
We will have a huge home ground advantage.
We will make a stack of coin on merch/food


And best of all we get to have a real "Home game"

I really like this thinking. Probably not quite practical on such short notice, but a great opportunity to push the WO's longer term prospects as a boutique alternative. Has anyone noticed just how far the goals have been brought in from the old configuration? The WO was the longest ground in the VFL back in the day. It was also very narrow. Now with only Etihad and the G really used in Melbourne, the club has shortened and widened the WO playing surface.

This means that the embankment on the Hawkins wing is very narrow, but there is huge space in the drill hall pocket. Were we to bring the fence in at that end, a big stand could be build. Ditto the Mt Mistake pocket. Not to mention behind both goals.

The result would be a 15,000 - 20,000 capacity venue. The city skyline would still be visible over the outer wing. A made for TV venue.
This is a great opportunity for the club to leverage some airtime for the discussion.

[jeemak]

I really like this thinking. Probably not quite practical on such short notice, but a great opportunity to push the WO's longer term prospects as a boutique alternative. Has anyone noticed just how far the goals have been brought in from the old configuration? The WO was the longest ground in the VFL back in the day. It was also very narrow. Now with only Etihad and the G really used in Melbourne, the club has shortened and widened the WO playing surface.

This means that the embankment on the Hawkins wing is very narrow, but there is huge space in the drill hall pocket. Were we to bring the fence in at that end, a big stand could be build. Ditto the Mt Mistake pocket. Not to mention behind both goals.

The result would be a 15,000 - 20,000 capacity venue. The city skyline would still be visible over the outer wing. A made for TV venue.
This is a great opportunity for the club to leverage some airtime for the discussion.

The Hawkins wing would need to revert back to covered standing room, and seated areas would need to be built at each end.

The former presents probably the biggest challenge of the two. Whilst I think having a standing wing would be a beautiful nod to the past, is anyone sure the AFL would tolerate it?

We've painted ourselves into a corner with the configuration of the members side of the ground, unfortunately.

[BulldogBelle]

Oh god soccer... What? Does Bont like it?

Apparently not.

[Eastdog]

Love what your saying Webby. Most likely wont happen but why couldn't we spend the money into the WO say if Ballarat falls through.

[bornadog]

Love what your saying Webby. Most likely wont happen but why couldn't we spend the money into the WO say if Ballarat falls through.

Because we don't have $50 million.

[Axe Man]

Looks like we will be staying put at Etihad with the FFA deciding to play the grand final at AAMI Park should Victory host it.

[Twodogs]

Looks like we will be staying put at Etihad with the FFA deciding to play the grand final at AAMI Park should Victory host it.


Despite its lack of seats the atmosphere for those who do get in should be electric.

[soupman]

Despite its lack of seats the atmosphere for those who do get in should be electric.

For those that get to go this is a much better arrangement. Aami Park is so far ahead of Etihad as a soccer venue it's ridiculous.

[Sedat]

I really like this thinking. Probably not quite practical on such short notice, but a great opportunity to push the WO's longer term prospects as a boutique alternative.
Paging Lantern...

[Ozza]

Just playing devils advocate....

Didn't we ask the AFL if we could play the odd match against an interstate team at Skilled Stadium?
Wasn't that seen as a potential profit driver?

I guess its probably too late in the piece to re-organise the corporate/event commitments.

[GVGjr]

Just playing devils advocate....

Didn't we ask the AFL if we could play the odd match against an interstate team at Skilled Stadium?
Wasn't that seen as a potential profit driver?

I guess its probably too late in the piece to re-organise the corporate/event commitments.

And they said no despite being a vastly superior deal for us. The rationale is that it's not expanding the market.
I'm not a huge fan of the Ballarat option but will gladly wait for the ground to be developed and see if it's suitable. If we can get it right it could be a nice addition to host the lower drawing games.

As for stepping aside for the A-League final it would need to be a decent offer and I'm someone who hopes they don't get shafted in this.

[Twodogs]

It's already over GVRJR. The A-League announced a couple of days ago that the GF will be at the AAMI park if it's in Melbourne They don't want Etihad.

[boydogs]

Interesting claim re. an offer of $750k to play in Freo

Sidenote - we play in Cairns not Darwin Caro

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/western-bulldogs-refuse-to-shift-home-game-to-fremantle-20150504-ggu0he.html

[KT31]

I agree totally with not playing in WA, but Gil lets call a spade a shovel, the draw is already so unfair and uneven that moving our game would have been a teardrop in the ocean.

[Stefcep]

So in a league where not every team plays H and A, the AFL was worried about "compromising the draw"?

Should have taken the $750k and run.

[bornadog]

So in a league where not every team plays H and A, the AFL was worried about "compromising the draw"?

Should have taken the $750k and run.

It's not that simple, there are a number of factors to consider.

1. Home ground advantage - so you are happy to fly to Perth where Freo hardly ever lose a match?
2. Cost of going to Perth for 25 players, coaches, trainers doctors, physo, officials etc etc. The $750k would be eroded quickly.
3. Then there is Etihad - Sponsors, reserved seat holders, vendors losses (food etc)
4. TV and radio costs - they would not have budgeted for a trip to Perth.

I am sure there are other factors, but the biggest one for me is playing Freo in Perth. No Thankyou if we can at least have some chance at Etihad.

[chef]

So in a league where not every team plays H and A, the AFL was worried about "compromising the draw"?

Should have taken the $750k and run.

Now that we are on fire I've changed my tune.

Why would we give up home ground advantage in a probable top 2 clash?

We are now aiming for finals so every game counts.

[azabob]

Hey BAD, just on number four what have they done for us lately? ;)

[bornadog]

Hey BAD, just on number four what have they done for us lately? ;)

True, not much. I put that there because if they have't budgeted for it they may not broadcast the game, or someone has to pay.

[Twodogs]

True, not much. I put that there because if they have't budgeted for it they may not broadcast the game, or someone has to pay.


They already broadcast games from WA so they probably already have people over there who can handle the broadcast. So there wouldn't be any need to fly anyone over there.

[Twodogs]

But play the game here.

[bornadog]

They already broadcast games from WA so they probably already have people over there who can handle the broadcast. So there wouldn't be any need to fly anyone over there.

Commentators by at least three plus on the ground special comments. Airfares, accommodation, food at least $2000 per person. All these costs add up.

[bornadog]

Eddie has got stuck into the A-league (see story here) (http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8986110)

He has basically said, build your own stadium, Etihad is an AFL venue.

[GVGjr]

I couldn't imagine the AFL allowing us to move the game to Geelong anyway. I really don't think a compromise could have been reached.

[Twodogs]

I couldn't imagine the AFL allowing us to move the game to Geelong anyway. I really don't think a compromise could have been reached.

Peter Gordon said on Jon Faine last Friday that if the had offered 2 million he would have considered moving the game to WA but not any less. That was never an offer or a demand though. He was just speculating as to an amount he would feasibly take to transfer the game.

FWIW PG said that the only venue the club would have considered playing the game at was WHitten Oval to give us a proper home ground advantage.

[SonofScray]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-22/bulldogs-president-calls-for-construction-of-bespoke-stadium-in-melbourne

PG was on the radio this morning and made mention of a quick study they did about taking the opportunity to host an AFL game back at WO this year. Like a lot of people have raised, the costs to bring it up to scratch outweighed the benefit. However, the fact that the idea is floating around is exciting to me, keeps the flame flickering that it isn't completely out of the question.

Given we've put our hand up for it, I hope Ballarat can be the answer to this conundrum we face and be a boon for memberships etc with us playing our 3 lowest drawing games a year out of there in a smaller stadium but it is nice as a fan to dream of a packed out WO hosting us again.

[Twodogs]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-22/bulldogs-president-calls-for-construction-of-bespoke-stadium-in-melbourne

PG was on the radio this morning and made mention of a quick study they did about taking the opportunity to host an AFL game back at WO this year. Like a lot of people have raised, the costs to bring it up to scratch outweighed the benefit. However, the fact that the idea is floating around is exciting to me, keeps the flame flickering that it isn't completely out of the question.

Given we've put our hand up for it, I hope Ballarat can be the answer to this conundrum we face and be a boon for memberships etc with us playing our 3 lowest drawing games a year out of there in a smaller stadium but it is nice as a fan to dream of a packed out WO hosting us again.

Yeah it sounds like they considered it pretty seriously. Gordon said they only abandoned the idea when the cost became more than a million dollars and the economic benefit went out the window. He said that the thing they really got stuck on was reserved seat holders. They have 6000 but only had room for 2000 in the Whitten stand so they looked to the Albert park corporation to put up temporary seating but it was going to cost 750 k.