Clarkson's shove on Game Day

[EasternWest]

Game Day just showed mobile footage of a couple of Port fans in Clarkson's face after the game. He's trying to walk along and eventually has enough and shoves one of them away.

After they showed it Mark Stevens said "hopefully an apology from Clarkson is coming" or something like that but I dunno. I don't reckon he's got anything to apologise for.

It annoyed me that those knobs thought it was ok to act like that and if anything Clarkson should be applauded for his restraint.

Anyone see it? Got any thoughts?

[bornadog]

The one thing I hate is opposition players in your face after a game. I remember once in the 2000s, at Princes Park we got thrashed and as I was walking out these kids were waving the Carlton flag into my face. I nearly lost it, but lucky they were kids.

Didn't see the Clarkson one and depends how close to him they were, as in some circumstances, if they are right up against you or in your way, then I wouldn't blame him.

[azabob]

Apparently he also punched the guy in the head.

Not the right action by Clarkson, I do feel for him in this instant.

[bornadog]

Apparently he also punched the guy in the head.

Not the right action by Clarkson, I do feel for him in this instant.

That is going too far

[EasternWest]

The one thing I hate is opposition players in your face after a game. I remember once in the 2000s, at Princes Park we got thrashed and as I was walking out these kids were waving the Carlton flag into my face. I nearly lost it, but lucky they were kids.

Didn't see the Clarkson one and depends how close to him they were, as in some circumstances, if they are right up against you or in your way, then I wouldn't blame him.

Yeah they were kind of corralling him until he ran out of room.


Apparently he also punched the guy in the head.

Not the right action by Clarkson, I do feel for him in this instant.

I didn't see him punch the guy, although as is always the nature of these things the camera wiggles about wildly when he shoves him so it's hard to tell if anything happens after.

Protecting your own space is ok. Punching is going too far.

[G-Mo77]

Didn't see it but don't blame him. Punch seemed a little over the top but I don't know what was said or done to lead up to that.

The question is where on earth was security in this instance. Why isn't a coach able to stroll down to his players without having fans invading your personal space? The AFL needs to be more proactive here.

[azabob]

The incident apparently happened when Clarkson was walking back to the hotel after the game.

[Webby]

I'm normally pretty hard on this sort of stuff, but to me there's no case to answer on this one.

The guy invaded Clarkson's space. Clarkson tried to smile it off and move aside. The guy (who was clearly bigger than Clarkson, btw) kept coming at him, corralling Clarkson close to a wall or window.

The guy seemed harmless from the camera vantage point, but, putting yourself in Clarkson's position, it would've been highly intimidating. It was just a nuffie trying to get a selfie video and screaming aaarrrgh at Clarkson.

Clarkson reacted fairly on this one. One all, move on. Natural justice. Clearly no harm done to the bloke and hopefully he wises up about what's acceptable and unacceptable.

If you're a drunken dickhead and harassing & intimidating passers by, you might just get a little warning clip. No blood, no foul. Move on. This is an old part of society that we don't need to throw out with the bath water. Old school common courtesy, respect, manners.

Albeit an unfortunate episode.

Back to the Dogs, now!

[F'scary]

Self defence. Clarkson was being assaulted.

[Remi Moses]

Good to see Clarko hit someone when they're looking.
Question is where was the security?

[G-Mo77]

Here is the article with the video.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-coach-alastair-clarkson-in-altercation-with-fan-outside-hotel-20150426-1mtcki.html

[hujsh]

It looks more like he punched him (or at least jabbed at him) in the throat

[LostDoggy]

It looks more like he punched him (or at least jabbed at him) in the throat

Or 'They call me Bruce' karate chop? :o

[LostDoggy]

On the “what would I do myself in that situation?” test this passes with flying colours. I would've dropped the bloke about ten seconds earlier. I get that as a coach he's expected to act better than the local mug, but he's tried that and been forced to protect himself, nothin more. I think Clarkson is just a bit known for the odd outburst and that probably doesn't help.

[Maddog37]

Not wearing club colours on the Fox footy interview which makes me wonder.

[bornadog]

Not wearing club colours on the Fox footy interview which makes me wonder.
Isn't he down at Skilled Stadium

[chef]

Isn't he down at Skilled Stadium

Nope, doing an interview at docklands.

Didn't look good and the guy has spoken to police.

[mjp]

Nope, doing an interview at docklands.

Didn't look good and the guy has spoken to police.
The drunken goose harassing people on the street has spoken to police?

Wow. He should be apologising to his family for embarrassing them.

[westdog54]

Self defence. Clarkson was being assaulted.


The drunken goose harassing people on the street has spoken to police?

Wow. He should be apologising to his family for embarrassing them.

Yep. Totally embarrassing. Clarkson is the one who was assaulted here and he is more than entitled to defend himself.

Clarkson has no case to answer, either with the Police or the AFL.

[Remi Moses]

Says a bit about our binge drinking epidemic .
Got out the weekend and saw it first hand

[GVGjr]

Someone mentioned that he likes to hit all things plastered.

[Ozza]

I'll be disappointed if Clarkson is made to apologise.

Getting harassed and filmed, and right in his personal space. Not sure what people expect.

[SonofScray]

I would give Clarko a medal to be honest, shouldn't have to put up with shit behaviour like that.

[Ghost Dog]

Won't have to apologise. What for? He was assaulted.

[1eyedog]

Looks like he grabs his throat and shoves him.

[Topdog]

Good on Clarko in this instance. If it were at the ground and he had security around him I'd think differently but on his way "home" he shouldnt have to put up with it.

[ledge]

The government has Been going on about the one punch adverts etc.. Then the coach of a proffessional club does it.
Not a good look, then again where is the point of no return everyone has different patience.
You can bet a security guard will be with them from now on especially interstate games.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good on him.

Laughable that the idiot goes to police crying foul play. Police should have proceeded to throw him out of the station.

[Ghost Dog]

Caroline Wilson's worldview is of an AFL where handsome young men, their farts smelling like rose petals, give out charity to orphans before a game and then hug each other manfully afterwards.
When players bump each over, they stop and extend a brotherly hand to the victim, and opposition teams walk off arm in arm while she watches on from her court on high.
In her schema, AFL is a circle of society's finest, purist, femanized-men, all good, good boys, into bed before 10 and the possibility of players being normal people, who sometimes whack each other, take alcohol or even recreational drugs is fully controlled.
She may even have scale figurines of Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt in a miniature Punt road in her bedroom, where she acts out such fantasies behind closed doors.

What a loon. The comments section of Theage show how badly out of touch she is.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder if she'd have the same view if it was Chelsea Roffey who was harassed leaving the ground, and Chelsea had've punched the guy?

…

[Maddog37]

Having looked at it I personally think Clarko did the wrong thing and it was just another dummy spit from the little man. The boys club is supporting him to the hilt though.

Not good enough for a man in his position.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if she'd have the same view if it was Chelsea Roffey who was harassed leaving the ground, and Chelsea had've punched the guy?

…

It would have been a very different article.

[hujsh]

I'm surprised how many here are saying they'd have belted the bloke. Seems unnecessary. Certainly not tough.

[LostDoggy]

I'm surprised how many here are saying they'd have belted the bloke. Seems unnecessary. Certainly not tough.

I don't like belting blokes. I don't think it's tough at all. But I'll belt them before they belt me, that's for sure. Nothing wrong with defending yourself.

[Ghost Dog]

Having looked at it I personally think Clarko did the wrong thing and it was just another dummy spit from the little man. The boys club is supporting him to the hilt though.

Not good enough for a man in his position.

??
If it's legal to use reasonable force owing to provocation in such a situation, why can't he react like any member of the public would?
I support him, and I'm not a big Clarkson fan ( punching walls) or a member of the boys club. I think what that idiot fan did is a little more 'boys club' in many respects.

Didn't Ross Lyon become involved in a slight altercation last season? Don't think he pushed anyone, but he gave someone a full blast.
Tonight it turns out some Essendon fan threw a stool at Chris Judd while he was eating.

[jeemak]

I don't think anyone could blame him for physically trying to protect himself however, there's at least two ways he could have done so without aggressively going for the throat in the way he did.

From reports he was very close to his end destination, with that in mind he'd have been better off just putting an arm bar out across the chest and dealing with it in a more passive manner.

He genuinely opened himself up to being seriously assaulted with the way he reacted, and that is where he went wrong in my view. Self preservation is key in these instances, and his actions actually made him more prone to being injured than what a passive response might have.

[LostDoggy]

Went for the throat, perfect defence.

The Essendon idiot.....well what an idiot.

[chef]

I don't like belting blokes. I don't think it's tough at all. But I'll belt them before they belt me, that's for sure. Nothing wrong with defending yourself.

Was the guy going to belt Clarkson or did Clarkson just get sick of a camera being stick in his face?

[LostDoggy]

Was the guy going to belt Clarkson or did Clarkson just get sick of a camera being stick in his face?

No, he was just baiting him into a reaction. He was certainly invading his space there was a little bump as they were walking and just yelling into his ear looking at the camera. Clarko give him a warning push a couple of strides before, the guy came back and then got the don't argue to the throat. He got off lightly I say.

[bornadog]

Should have just ignored him and hurried into the hotel, or if he wanted to say something, could have handled it differently. Let the guy take a photo and then tell him to piss off.

[chef]

No, he was just baiting him into a reaction. He was certainly invading his space there was a little bump as they were walking and just yelling into his ear looking at the camera. Clarko give him a warning push a couple of strides before, the guy came back and then got the don't argue to the throat. He got off lightly I say.

What if Clarko punches him and he falls back hits his head on the concrete and is seriously injured?

Still justified?

[westdog54]

What if Clarko punches him and he falls back hits his head on the concrete and is seriously injured?

Still justified?

Seems a silly question given Clarko didn't punch him, but I'll bite.

What if after taking the video, the bloke pulls a knife on him? Then us he allowed to defend himself?

[chef]

Seems a silly question given Clarko didn't punch him, but I'll bite.

What if after taking the video, the bloke pulls a knife on him? Then us he allowed to defend himself?

im responding to the posts saying he should have dropped him. Im sure the cops who post on here would agree violence isnt the answer.

Now he could have a knife.....serious?

[EasternWest]

Someone mentioned that he likes to hit all things plastered.

That's hilarious.

[jeemak]

Seems a silly question given Clarko didn't punch him, but I'll bite.

What if after taking the video, the bloke pulls a knife on him? Then us he allowed to defend himself?

If the guy was carrying a knife, I couldn't think of a better thing to do to entice him into using it than striking him in the throat.

[Sedat]

Clarko clearly has a short fuse - not everyone would have reacted to this idiot (witness Judd) but Clarko did because he is an angry little man. He has plenty of form, starting all the way back to the Battle of Britain in 1987.

Having said that, he did the right thing apologising to the community last night for the message his actions portrayed that are in stark contrast to the community messaging to walk away from such confrontations - walking away diffuses these issues, prevents the possibility of another Hookes type tragic scenario, and removes the oxygen that these attention-seeking morons feed off. Also well done to Clarko for making a point of not including that dickhead supporter in his apology.

I reckon Clarko is a sensational coach and is fantastic for football, but there's also no denying that he does have the occasional anger management issues. Nobody is perfect.

[westdog54]

im responding to the posts saying he should have dropped him. Im sure the cops who post on here would agree violence isnt the answer.

Now he could have a knife.....serious?

As "one of the cops who posts on here", I can say quite categorically that you don't always have the luxury of aiming what people, particularly drunks, may or may not do, and in an instance, a person is more than entitled to defend themselves.

I simply put the combating worst case scenario out there.

[LostDoggy]

As "one of the cops who posts on here", I can say quite categorically that you don't always have the luxury of aiming what people, particularly drunks, may or may not do, and in an instance, a person is more than entitled to defend themselves.

I simply put the combating worst case scenario out there.

Agree wholeheartedly. Walking away wasn't working, pushing the guy away wasn't working, he simply applied increasing amounts of force until the bloke stopped. That's self defence. If Clarko had then gone on to sink the boots in or continue throwing punches it'd be a completely different matter. I was talking to my partner last night (criminal prosecutor) who believes Clarko would have absolutely no problem at all justifying his actions in a courtroom.

In the media, however, well that's a totally different beast, hence his apology. Had "forced sportsman's post-incident-that-looks-bad-in-the-press apology" written all over it.

[LostDoggy]

If the guy was carrying a knife, I couldn't think of a better thing to do to entice him into using it than striking him in the throat.

Actually a strike with force to the throat will make anyone think twice about doing anything, handled perfectly. It stuns the other person and gives time to either strike again or put distance between both.

[Twodogs]

Wrongly applied doing that can kill a person. I wouldn't be advising it.

[bulldogtragic]

It's well and good with hindsight and I'm not jumping into it. Suffice to say I guess the only one good thing about being forced into retirement means no longer having to deal with drunken dickheads, and that's a good thing considering a very good chunk of all the life threatening scenarios i faced involved drunken dickheads.

I'm a bit rusty on some laws, but the use of force (with arrest anyway) is using only such force proportionate to the objective. If Clarko honestly thought his personal safety was at risk then even Dennis Denuto could win the case saying Clarko used a proportionate level of force to end the threat to his safety.

[jeemak]

Actually a strike with force to the throat will make anyone think twice about doing anything, handled perfectly. It stuns the other person and gives time to either strike again or put distance between both.

Because your average Joe is as skilled and accurate as Jack Reacher..............

I might be wrong on this one, but I thought stabbings often happen after a scuffle breaks out rather than before.

Anyway, I'm glad Clarkson has admitted he could have handled the situation differently, and I'm glad nobody is hurt. I hope that with time the dickhead person that got in his face realises how much of a twit he is, and that the police don't allow the matter to be taken further.

[westdog54]

It's well and good with hindsight and I'm not jumping into it. Suffice to say I guess the only one good thing about being forced into retirement means no longer having to deal with drunken dickheads, and that's a good thing considering a very good chunk of all the life threatening scenarios i faced involved drunken dickheads.

I'm a bit rusty on some laws, but the use of force (with arrest anyway) is using only such force proportionate to the objective. If Clarko honestly thought his personal safety was at risk then even Dennis Denuto could win the case saying Clarko used a proportionate level of force to end the threat to his safety.

You'll be glad to know that 462a stands unaltered.

[bulldogtragic]

You'll be glad to know that 462a stands unaltered.

Ah, 462a....

"... If you all don't memorise and recite this by the end of the day you're doing laps and push ups until you do..." :)

[Twodogs]

So what is 462a then anyway?


*edit*found it. It's the Police Use of Force provision to the Crimes Act

[bulldogtragic]

So what is 462a then anyway?


*edit*found it. It's the Police Use of Force provision to the Crimes Act

Sorry, Yep. After the early 90's issues with use of force, it was the first thing I remember being drilled with. It's a good test for this whole Clarko thing, and about the proportionate level of force he used to threat he felt.

[westdog54]

So what is 462a then anyway?


*edit*found it. It's the Police Use of Force provision to the Crimes Act

Geez you would make a shocking lawyer TD.

The word Police is not used once in 462a.

Applies to any person.


Ah, 462a....

"... If you all don't memorise and recite this by the end of the day you're doing laps and push ups until you do..." :)

One of the training Sergeants at my office takes a slightly different approach.

Whenever it comes up he offers a six pack of choice to anyone who can recite it verbatim.

[Twodogs]

Geez you would make a shocking lawyer TD.

The word Police is not used once in 462a.

Applies to any person.

I was wondering who would spot my little test.

[westdog54]

I was wondering who would spot my little test.

605

Well done Wilson, I was wondering who'd spot that first.

[Twodogs]

605

Well done Wilson, I was wondering who'd spot that first.


Our cat is named after Frank Pike because she looks a bit like him.

[bulldogtragic]

Geez you would make a shocking lawyer TD.

The word Police is not used once in 462a.

Applies to any person.



One of the training Sergeants at my office takes a slightly different approach.

Whenever it comes up he offers a six pack of choice to anyone who can recite it verbatim.

I much prefer that method of learning, although that could affect memory long term... :)