List Management 2015

[lemmon]

Love Morris but it's probably the time to call an end to a wonderful career...would make an excellent specialist coach though

[azabob]

I think we need to see Dale Morris perform over the next 10 weeks before we make a decision.

By the sounds of it, Boyd is still keen on retirement, hopefully we can convince him to go around again.

[boydogs]

I think you can pencil in Fuller, Minson and Morris as not likely to be listed with us next year.

Maybe, but if we traded Minson then I think we would trade in a mature aged ruck to replace him. We need to take a minimum of 3 draft picks

[jeemak]

Maybe, but if we traded Minson then I think we would trade in a mature aged ruck to replace him. We need to take a minimum of 3 draft picks

It's plausible, though I think next year will see us go with Roughead, Cordy and Campbell, with Boyd helping out on game day. It will be interesting to see who comes onto the market deemed as good or better than those three. What we do will largely depend on whether Campbell can earn a call up and demonstrate he can play at the top level this year, and while I think he should definitely be given a go I'm 50/50 on whether he'll take the next step.

[GVGjr]

I suspect that this year the focus will be on a couple of trades and we will be prepared to part with our first round selection to get one completed. We might offer up a player in a trade but it's probably less likely.

The players from the primary list under the microscope might include Fuller, Darley, Prudden, Redpath and Cordy with M.Boyd and Morris the hardest calls.

We are probably in the hunt for a key defender and versatile ruckman type and they are the most likely trade targets.

[Rocco Jones]

The players from the primary list under the microscope might include Fuller, Darley, Prudden, Redpath and Cordy with M.Boyd and Morris the hardest calls.

As I mentioned earlier, I think Fuller and Darley are both in the delisted basket at the moment. On the others you have mentioned.
Redpath- I think he is has improved slowly every season he has been on our list. Big latter half of the year but he stays on for mine due to continual improvement + need for his type.
Prudden- He has had his best season so far and I think he has tools that give him a chance. Definitely think he needs to give a shot at AFL before being delisted either way. I'd keep him, another point is our two obvious players to go are HBFs.
A.Cordy/Campbell/Minson- I think I would let go of one of them. We won't get anything for Minson trade wise you'd think in current climate. I just don't see Campbell making it. Immobile around the ground and really isn't ultra dominate in ruck to make up for it type. Ayce looks as far off AFL level as it gets in the ruck. Perhaps 2nd ruck role? I think that eventually free agency/exploiting a sides ruck depth = lack of opportunities for target is our best avenue.
M.Boyd- Has had a couple of injuries but has to be in our top few players for the season. If he wants to stay on, no doubt we should given him a spot.
Morris- Big latter half. Sentiment can be logical too sometimes. Giving him another year if he really wants it and is anything near 50/50 anyway can be great for list, showing loyalty goes both ways.

[Remi Moses]

As I mentioned earlier, I think Fuller and Darley are both in the delisted basket at the moment. On the others you have mentioned.
Redpath- I think he is has improved slowly every season he has been on our list. Big latter half of the year but he stays on for mine due to continual improvement + need for his type.
Prudden- He has had his best season so far and I think he has tools that give him a chance. Definitely think he needs to give a shot at AFL before being delisted either way. I'd keep him, another point is our two obvious players to go are HBFs.
A.Cordy/Campbell/Minson- I think I would let go of one of them. We won't get anything for Minson trade wise you'd think in current climate. I just don't see Campbell making it. Immobile around the ground and really isn't ultra dominate in ruck to make up for it type. Ayce looks as far off AFL level as it gets in the ruck. Perhaps 2nd ruck role? I think that eventually free agency/exploiting a sides ruck depth = lack of opportunities for target is our best avenue.
M.Boyd- Has had a couple of injuries but has to be in our top few players for the season. If he wants to stay on, no doubt we should given him a spot.
Morris- Big latter half. Sentiment can be logical too sometimes. Giving him another year if he really wants it and is anything near 50/50 anyway can be great for list, showing loyalty goes both ways.

Not sure about big Jack's improvement ( he's stagnated)
Darley and Fuller are in trouble, and I think prudden's injuries will save him.
Cordy's in trouble, and I think Dale and M Boyd may retire
Minson also may be traded.
We'll be looking for a key back, a ruck and another mid in draft trade F/A period

[bulldogtragic]

As I mentioned earlier, I think Fuller and Darley are both in the delisted basket at the moment. On the others you have mentioned.
Redpath- I think he is has improved slowly every season he has been on our list. Big latter half of the year but he stays on for mine due to continual improvement + need for his type.
Prudden- He has had his best season so far and I think he has tools that give him a chance. Definitely think he needs to give a shot at AFL before being delisted either way. I'd keep him, another point is our two obvious players to go are HBFs.
A.Cordy/Campbell/Minson- I think I would let go of one of them. We won't get anything for Minson trade wise you'd think in current climate. I just don't see Campbell making it. Immobile around the ground and really isn't ultra dominate in ruck to make up for it type. Ayce looks as far off AFL level as it gets in the ruck. Perhaps 2nd ruck role? I think that eventually free agency/exploiting a sides ruck depth = lack of opportunities for target is our best avenue.
M.Boyd- Has had a couple of injuries but has to be in our top few players for the season. If he wants to stay on, no doubt we should given him a spot.
Morris- Big latter half. Sentiment can be logical too sometimes. Giving him another year if he really wants it and is anything near 50/50 anyway can be great for list, showing loyalty goes both ways.
There may be players wanting out too. Hunter may seek a fresh start for instance. If Minson doesn't get game guarantees he may ask for a trade.

[boydogs]

It's plausible, though I think next year will see us go with Roughead, Cordy and Campbell, with Boyd helping out on game day. It will be interesting to see who comes onto the market deemed as good or better than those three. What we do will largely depend on whether Campbell can earn a call up and demonstrate he can play at the top level this year, and while I think he should definitely be given a go I'm 50/50 on whether he'll take the next step.

That's way too light on IMO. Cordy & Campbell are closer to delisting than making the grade at this point. Roughead needs to be free to be a swingman, not ruck 90% of games week in and week out. If his shoulder goes again we're screwed

[Twodogs]

There may be players wanting out too. Hunter may seek a fresh start for instance. If Minson doesn't get game guarantees he may ask for a trade.

Talia if he stays in the twos. Although he'd want to play much better footy.

[bulldogtragic]

Talia if he stays in the twos. Although he'd want to play much better footy.

Absolutely TD. Personally I think we might see two ask for a trade at years end.

[Doc26]

Talia if he stays in the twos. Although he'd want to play much better footy.

He's not a happy camper at present.

[josie]

I think we need to see Dale Morris perform over the next 10 weeks before we make a decision.

By the sounds of it, Boyd is still keen on retirement, hopefully we can convince him to go around again.

On radio interview (I think it was 3AW) tonight Boyd sounded very much like he'd like to play next year if his form is still good and if he is not holding back younger players who are ready. Agree with your thoughts on Morris.

[bornadog]

He's not a happy camper at present.
Any reason?

[G-Mo77]

Any reason?

Probably because he's not getting a game.

He was stiff to lose his spot but he's got to put the work back in to win it back. I'd love him to stay personally.

[comrade]

How can you squeeze either Roberts or Hamling out, though?

Both were good again tonight.

[Twodogs]

Absolutely TD. Personally I think we might see two ask for a trade at years end.


He's not a happy camper at present.


Any reason?


Probably because he's not getting a game.

He was stiff to lose his spot but he's got to put the work back in to win it back. I'd love him to stay personally.

If Hamling and Roberts continue their form from tonight his spot may be gone. I hope he plays Peter Knights today for Footscray though.

[Webby]

I was so keen for Talia to show something this year. For the first 6 rounds I was rapt with him. Roberts was the other one I had earmarked for big things. Mainly because the club really needed some tall defenders to stand up, but also because I could see some real ability in them. Probably most so in Talia.

I watch most senior and reserves games. I don't claim to be any expert on Aussie Rules footy. The game has gone past me from a tactical/strategic viewpoint. On that front I'm playing catch up. Probably like most punters. However I still back myself to spot individual players - probably like most supporters.

I've been calling out for Talia and Roberts to urgently reach their potential since last year. Roberts was hindered by a shoulder reco, whilst Talia got the jump into this year. He more than anyone seemed to have worked on his positional play, his engine, his closing speed and also on playing within his limitations. He's not clean in his handling and he's not all that good by foot. Nor is he great on the rebound. Turning defence into attack. However he is okay at minding a key forward when he's switched on. All that is okay, however. He played simple 101 defensive footy, gave the ball to Bob etc. All good.

However, I'm now concerned about his apparent tendency to sook up. To get down on things. Whether that's down on himself or the club. He seems the brooding type. Perhaps a deep thinker, or perhaps just a malingerer. Either way, it's a worry.

Hamling (also limited by foot) has clearly leapfrogged him. That's purely on effort and application. Hamling has a fraction of Talia's upside, but the bloke might also have a fraction of the sense of entitlement. For me, I'm concerned about Talia's tendency to think that it's going to just happen for him. He is a bulky kid with a lot of ability, but also poor disposal and closing speed. He needs to work on those two aspects of his game - constantly.

If you speak to most champions, they'll tell you that there were two to three key aspects of their game that they had to pay more attention to than others. No one is perfect and no one has a divine right to being brilliant at what they do. It worries me that Talia feels that kind of entitlement. Because he's not that good. No one is.

Like Liam Jones, he can kid himself that a change of club will magically cure him. Or, he can wise up, knuckle down, recognise where he needs to work and focus one training session and quarter of footy at a time and work on what he needs to do to make it as an AFL player.

Like Steve Waugh, he's probably only the second most talented player in his family. However, hopefully he realises that talent is only 30% of the formula. Change your attitude now, kid. The Dogs are headed for September and there's still time to turn it around and be a very, very important part of it... Or you could just meander along, convince yourself that the grass is greener on the other side, and join Liam Jones in country footy in 2-3 years time..

[comrade]

If you believe the whispers, Hunter is another one unhappy he's not playing ones. Clearly he hasn't watched his game footage from the Demons match.

Any coincidence that both players have strong, family ties to the club?

[jeemak]

He's not a happy camper at present.


Probably because he's not getting a game.

He was stiff to lose his spot but he's got to put the work back in to win it back. I'd love him to stay personally.


If Hamling and Roberts continue their form from tonight his spot may be gone. I hope he plays Peter Knights today for Footscray though.

Talia spoke in an interview at the pointy end of preseason about how he clearly thought he was good enough to play top level and how a fresher approach towards him would help him.

I got the distinct impression he thought he was ahead of his treatment.

Now he's living the exact situation he was after ample opportunity, perhaps he's gotten ahead of himself and has trouble with that.

[Twodogs]

I was so keen for Talia to show something this year. For the first 6 rounds I was rapt with him. Roberts was the other one I had earmarked for big things. Mainly because the club really needed some tall defenders to stand up, but also because I could see some real ability in them. Probably most so in Talia.

I watch most senior and reserves games. I don't claim to be any expert on Aussie Rules footy. The game has gone past me from a tactical/strategic viewpoint. On that front I'm playing catch up. Probably like most punters. However I still back myself to spot individual players - probably like most supporters.

I've been calling out for Talia and Roberts to urgently reach their potential since last year. Roberts was hindered by a shoulder reco, whilst Talia got the jump into this year. He more than anyone seemed to have worked on his positional play, his engine, his closing speed and also on playing within his limitations. He's not clean in his handling and he's not all that good by foot. Nor is he great on the rebound. Turning defence into attack. However he is okay at minding a key forward when he's switched on. All that is okay, however. He played simple 101 defensive footy, gave the ball to Bob etc. All good.

However, I'm now concerned about his apparent tendency to sook up. To get down on things. Whether that's down on himself or the club. He seems the brooding type. Perhaps a deep thinker, or perhaps just a malingerer. Either way, it's a worry.

Hamling (also limited by foot) has clearly leapfrogged him. That's purely on effort and application. Hamling has a fraction of Talia's upside, but the bloke might also have a fraction of the sense of entitlement. For me, I'm concerned about Talia's tendency to think that it's going to just happen for him. He is a bulky kid with a lot of ability, but also poor disposal and closing speed. He needs to work on those two aspects of his game - constantly.

If you speak to most champions, they'll tell you that there were two to three key aspects of their game that they had to pay more attention to than others. No one is perfect and no one has a divine right to being brilliant at what they do. It worries me that Talia feels that kind of entitlement. Because he's not that good. No one is.

Like Liam Jones, he can kid himself that a change of club will magically cure him. Or, he can wise up, knuckle down, recognise where he needs to work and focus one training session and quarter of footy at a time and work on what he needs to do to make it as an AFL player.

Like Steve Waugh, he's probably only the second most talented player in his family. However, hopefully he realises that talent is only 30% of the formula. Change your attitude now, kid. The Dogs are headed for September and there's still time to turn it around and be a very, very important part of it... Or you could just meander along, convince yourself that the grass is greener on the other side, and join Liam Jones in country footy in 2-3 years time..


If you believe the whispers, Hunter is another one unhappy he's not playing ones. Clearly he hasn't watched his game footage from the Demons match.

Any coincidence that both players have strong, family ties to the club?


Talia spoke in an interview at the pointy end of preseason about how he clearly thought he was good enough to play top level and how a fresher approach towards him would help him.

I got the distinct impression he thought he was ahead of his treatment.

Now he's living the exact situation he was after ample opportunity, perhaps he's gotten ahead of himself and has trouble with that.

Today's game will tell a lot.

[bornadog]

Probably because he's not getting a game.

He was stiff to lose his spot but he's got to put the work back in to win it back. I'd love him to stay personally.

I hope he isn't sooking about not getting a game. I think Bevo really gives every player the opportunity to improve themselves and if that means doing it in the VFL, so be it.

Crameri has been asked to go back due to lack of form as has Maccrae, Minson, Jong, Hrovat. Would that have happened under previous coaches? I doubt it as we played a lot of players in the seniors due to reputation.

Come on Talia your not that good yet, so show something and you will earn your spot back.

[Hotdog60]

Could Talia be tried in another position?

Ruck or maybe CHF. Could he be better at dictating the play rather than reading it.

Skills may not be there though.

[bulldogtragic]

Could Talia be tried in another position?

Ruck or maybe CHF. Could he be better at dictating the play rather than reading it.

Skills may not be there though.

Worth a shot maybe.

But his game on a Walker was outstanding early this year, so he can play defence. Not sure why he dropped oh his form.

[bornadog]

Could Talia be tried in another position?

Ruck or maybe CHF. Could he be better at dictating the play rather than reading it.

Skills may not be there though.
i think post Morris there is room for Talia, Roberts and Hamling

[azabob]

i think post Morris there is room for Talia, Roberts and Hamling

On the list, but not in the 22.

[kruder]

Agree Jeemak. Higgins has been a good pick up for them.

He is Norths classiest player. They will never win a premiership with that list, lack star power, match winners. I'm still happy that Higgins and Coons moved on they just don't fit in to the brand of football we are trying to play. Dickson without the ball suits our game style far better than Higgins.

[bulldogtragic]

He is Norths classiest player. They will never win a premiership with that list, lack star power, match winners. I'm still happy that Higgins and Coons moved on they just don't fit in to the brand of football we are trying to play. Dickson without the ball suits our game style far better than Higgins.

Cooney averaging two tackles a game this year. I'm not sure whether Bevo would allow him to play at Footscray with such poor pressure acts.

[bornadog]

On the list, but not in the 22.
Why not ?

[azabob]

Why not ?

I think it would make us slow coming out of defence. Wood is currently our 3rd defender.

My question back to you, is Morris hasn't played since round four, why hasn't all three played in the same team then?

[Rocco Jones]

Higgins moving to North is as win/win as a 'deal' gets.

North get a guy who has been one of the best players so far this season for nothing. Simple win for them.

We are a long term project and his style probably doesn't suit Bevo. We got an early pick and cap space. By the time we are (hopefully) in the premiership window, Higgins will be cooked. We also have a lot of his type we need to get as many games as possible into.

Higgins need a change. No issue with him at all. I know he was a big of a scapegoat but I do value what he did as a Bulldog. I struggle to ever really want an ex Bulldog to do well (other than Cross) but I am definitely not wishing anything ill against Higgins.

Cooney is done now.

[bornadog]

I think it would make us slow coming out of defence. Wood is currently our 3rd defender.

My question back to you, is Morris hasn't played since round four, why hasn't all three played in the same team then?

Because Talia hasn't been doing what the coach is asking him to do.

My question was can the three play together, presuming they are all in form. I don't see Hamling as a KPP, he is very light and really is the third tall, abit like Hargraves role but with some extra height. Wood is not a third tall, but a running HBF. We have JJ as well for speed, plus Murphy.

[Rocco Jones]

Because Talia hasn't been doing what the coach is asking him to do.

My question was can the three play together, presuming they are all in form. I don't see Hamling as a KPP, he is very light and really is the third tall, abit like Hargraves role but with some extra height. Wood is not a third tall, but a running HBF. We have JJ as well for speed, plus Murphy.

I think Beveridge is wonderful at getting a back line team together. Bobby, Wood and M Boyd all make it easier for our tall defenders, allowing us to go shorter/more mobile.

Ideally though, you want height, mobility and the ability to at least not turn over the ball. The issue with the Roberts/Hamling/Talia is that their combined liabilities are too great at the moment. Talia is a liability with the ball. Roberts and Hamling are still finding their feet as tall defenders and are pretty much all about lockdown.

[GVGjr]

Because Talia hasn't been doing what the coach is asking him to do.



If that is true now he also didn't do that last year either but was seen as a victim of poor selection by the coach and match committee.
Talia has the ability to be a good player but it's concerning that he doesn't appear to be responding to what the coaches are asking.

[GVGjr]

Ideally though, you want height, mobility and the ability to at least not turn over the ball. The issue with the Roberts/Hamling/Talia is that their combined liabilities are too great at the moment. Talia is a liability with the ball. Roberts and Hamling are still finding their feet as tall defenders and are pretty much all about lockdown.

I'm glad that Hamling is showing something but as you have pointed out he is very defensive minded. His athleticism helps him in the air but we really haven't benefited yet from his running ability. When he gets that right he will provide us with a lot more rebound.

[bornadog]

I think Beveridge is wonderful at getting a back line team together. Bobby, Wood and M Boyd all make it easier for our tall defenders, allowing us to go shorter/more mobile.

Ideally though, you want height, mobility and the ability to at least not turn over the ball. The issue with the Roberts/Hamling/Talia is that their combined liabilities are too great at the moment. Talia is a liability with the ball. Roberts and Hamling are still finding their feet as tall defenders and are pretty much all about lockdown.

My question does not relate to right now but rather the future. I did ask post Morris can the three play together in the backline.

[Twodogs]

I'm glad that Hamling is showing something but as you have pointed out he is very defensive minded. His athleticism helps him in the air but we really haven't benefited yet from his running ability. When he gets that right he will provide us with a lot more rebound.

Brian Lake could really only punch the ball away from the forward and then kill the contest when he started at fullback. But he had the athleticism and could stay on his feet long to start to win and then run away from forwards until he became the machine he became. I'm not saying Hamling is our new Brian but he has a lot of the athletic ability and closing speed if not the build and mentality.

I'm saying I agree with you anyway. Once he gets it together he will be a very handy player and I can see signs that he will.

[Twodogs]

I think Beveridge is wonderful at getting a back line team together. Bobby, Wood and M Boyd all make it easier for our tall defenders, allowing us to go shorter/more mobile.

Ideally though, you want height, mobility and the ability to at least not turn over the ball. The issue with the Roberts/Hamling/Talia is that their combined liabilities are too great at the moment. Talia is a liability with the ball. Roberts and Hamling are still finding their feet as tall defenders and are pretty much all about lockdown.


Last year Beveridge managed to cobble together a defence that held up over 22 rounds won finals and ultimately the premiership despite injuries and suspension to key players and all the problems we didn't hear about.

What he's done with our defence this year is an even better job.

[Dry Rot]

Last year Beveridge managed to cobble together a defence that held up over 22 rounds won finals and ultimately the premiership despite injuries and suspension to key players and all the problems we didn't hear about.

What he's done with our defence this year is an even better job.

Agreed. I made that point when Bev was appointed.

However, it would be nice to get Collins or by some miracle Weitering in the draft this year.

[comrade]

http://www.sen.com.au/news/07-15/shaken-swans-might-renege-on-revenge-campaign

An article from SEN suggesting that plenty of Vic clubs are into Brisbane's McStay.

I'd love him at the Dogs. Exactly the type of dynamic, hard running CHF we need to compliment his best mate, Boyd.

I'd be willing to give up our first to secure him, especially given the best talls are likely to go early in this draft.

[lemmon]

http://www.sen.com.au/news/07-15/shaken-swans-might-renege-on-revenge-campaign

An article from SEN suggesting that plenty of Vic clubs are into Brisbane's McStay.

I'd love him at the Dogs. Exactly the type of dynamic, hard running CHF we need to compliment his best mate, Boyd.

I'd be willing to give up our first to secure him, especially given the best talls are likely to go early in this draft.

Extended his contract till the end of 2017 at the end of last year...for whatever that means these days

[comrade]

Extended his contract till the end of 2017 at the end of last year...for whatever that means these days

Yep, I'd love him to leave but is likely to McStay...




I'll show myself out.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, I'd love him to leave but is likely to McStay...




I'll show myself out.

I thought you'd go with a McLeave reference. Disappointing miss of a worse pun.

[GVGjr]

Bulldogs Online believes we will push hard for Aiden Corr from GWS. Athletic defender who we were interested in at the 2012 draft.
If we were to secure him that would be four 1st round picks from that draft. Stringer, Macrae, Corr and Hrovat.

[bulldogtragic]

Bulldogs Online believes we will push hard for Aiden Corr from GWS. Athletic defender who we were interested in at the 2012 draft.
If we were to secure him that would be four 1st round picks from that draft. Stringer, Macrae, Corr and Hrovat.

So an annual 'tit for tat' with GWS then? :)

[GVGjr]

So an annual 'tit for tat' with GWS then? :)

;) I don't think so, during the Griffen discussions we inquired about Corr's availability. He's coming out of contract now so it's reasonable to assume he might be part of our list management discussions if the likes of Carlisle aren't within our reach.

[westdog54]

So an annual 'tit for tat' with GWS then? :)
I'm guessing Boyd was the 'Tat' then?

[bulldogtragic]

;) I don't think so, during the Griffen discussions we inquired about Corr's availability. He's coming out of contract now so it's reasonable to assume he might be part of our list management discussions if the likes of Carlisle aren't within our reach.

What are your thoughts of his junior footy and chart to where he is now?

[bulldogtragic]

I'm guessing Boyd was the 'Tat' then?

Touché, Westdog, Touché.

[GVGjr]

What are your thoughts of his junior footy and chart to where he is now?

I rated him and I think he is another 12 or 18 months away from becoming a good footballer. He's had a few injuries but has played over 20 games of senior football already which is a great platform for him.

Having Corr alongside of Hamling would really increase the athleticism of our defensive group.

He's worth having a look at.

[bulldogtragic]

I rated him and I think he is another 12 or 18 months away from becoming a good footballer. He's had a few injuries but has played over 20 games of senior football already which is a great platform for him.

Having Corr alongside of Hamling would really increase the athleticism of our defensive group.

He's worth having a look at.

Are you thinking he's worth pick 10, or a downgrade like Carlton and Jaksch?

[GVGjr]

Are you thinking he's worth pick 10, or a downgrade like Carlton and Jaksch?

I don't know but I think we need to consider what price we should put on 3 years of development at another club and then compare it to the players we think might be available around our likely pick.
Does Corr give us something different to Talia, Roberts and Hamling? I think he has the potential to be the number one tall defender.

I'd certainly have a close look at him. If we are trying to build towards something special in the 2017 season then having four 1st round picks from the 2012 draft is a huge step in the right direction especially when we also have two 1st round picks with the quality of T.Boyd and Bontempelli from the 2013 draft.

[comrade]

Definitely not worth pick 10 in a shallow draft where all the cream is at the top.

They'd probably prefer a player so perhaps Talia and our 2nd for Corr and their 3rd?

[GVGjr]

Definitely not worth pick 10 in a shallow draft where all the cream is at the top.

They'd probably prefer a player so perhaps Talia and our 2nd for Corr and their 3rd?

Is it really that far off the mark? I'd want something extra back but a needs based former first round pick with 3 years of development already in him is consistent with our focus on strengthening our list with young players.

Just on Talia, clubs tend to focus on players who have performed well against them so maybe Adelaide might be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for Talia given his game on Walker this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Talia has gone from gun on Walker and is now trade bait for some. With respect and my interest, why is this so?

[GVGjr]

Talia has gone from gun on Walker and is now trade bait for some. With respect and my interest, why is this so?

I wouldn't trade him unless he requests it but I think clubs will inquire about him.

[comrade]

Talia has gone from gun on Walker and is now trade bait for some. With respect and my interest, why is this so?

A few reasons:

- Whisper is he has cracked it again at not playing 1s.

- Hamling and Roberts are performing admirably and have moved ahead. Whether that's just for now, or for good, who knows?

- He's struggling in the 2s and his weaknesses (ball handling, closing space, kicking) aren't really improving.

- From all reports, we're putting in a lot of work scouting opposition key backs so we're obviously not satisfied with what we have.

Add it all up and he is a tradeable player.

[Remi Moses]

He's gone from a player who was going to command a big contract increase, to a reserves footballer.
The issue is Talia coming out of the back half with ball in hand, it's close your eyes stuff.
McCartney didn't play him, and Beveridge doesn't !
I think he'll be tradeable

[boydogs]

a needs based former first round pick

We've got Talia wanting to leave for lack of game time, yet we need another KPD?

[GVGjr]

We've got Talia wanting to leave for lack of game time, yet we need another KPD?

Is that definite or just speculation and do we also knock back making a play for Carlisle using the same logic as he wants to be a defender?
Corr and Talia are very different players with Corr being more athletic which is what we need in our back line.

I believe we could also play both.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No need to over complicate it. We want another high quality defender which we may deem that being Carlisle or Corr, and not Talia.

Said it in another thread but if we got Carlisle or another defender, I'd trade Talia. Huge weaknesses in his game: his disposal, his pace and his lack of reach.

[jeemak]

No need to over complicate it. We want another high quality defender which we may deem that being Carlisle or Corr, and not Talia.

Said it in another thread but if we got Carlisle or another defender, I'd trade Talia. Huge weaknesses in his game: his disposal, his pace and his lack of reach.

I'm pretty happy with that summary. It's all about improving your talent profile across the lines without blowing your budget and ability to pay in future years.

The few bits and pieces I've seen of Talia at Footscray this year and late last year didn't impress me a great deal, though I will give credit to him for putting a few good senior games together this year.

Body positioning, knowing when to punch rather than mark and protecting team mates in a better marking position - all required attributes for a KPF - are issues beyond his obvious ones that need fixing. If he can't get these things right in the twos then he'll be exposed in the ones.

[Go_Dogs]

I still see a spot for Talia, as I think Roberts and Hamling are sure enough users and will continue to develop their offensive side. This means we can have Talia play within his limitations whilst playing the most negating role of our key defenders which he's proven he can do (recognising he still has to improve a few areas, and his consistency to become a lock each week).

It's a few important weeks for Redpath, because a big bodied, lead up forward is a huge need. This is likely to be the focus for mine with a trade or at the draft.

We also need more pure midfielders who can rest elsewhere, rather than the opposite. It's not going to be a great year for it but if we can draft a bloke for this role at about 185cm I'd take that in the second round.

The ruck situation is another interesting one and we may look to a low value trade in an effort to immeiately address this area.

[Twodogs]

No need to over complicate it. We want another high quality defender which we may deem that being Carlisle or Corr, and not Talia.

Said it in another thread but if we got Carlisle or another defender, I'd trade Talia. Huge weaknesses in his game: his disposal, his pace and his lack of reach.


I'd go a little further and say that Talia might be at the peak of his value this trade period and if we don't trade him if we get another KPD in we may regret it in the future. It might also happen that the guy we trade in turns out to be a dud and Talia stars at his new club but it's a stone I'd happily turn if Talia continues to tread water.

[boydogs]

Is that definite or just speculation and do we also knock back making a play for Carlisle using the same logic as he wants to be a defender?
Corr and Talia are very different players with Corr being more athletic which is what we need in our back line.

I believe we could also play both.

I don't get it GVG. Against St Kilda we won 9 goals to 7. Our defense was dominant and got us over the line, but we were beaten in the midfield and up forward. So why are we talking about needing more defenders?

If anything, we need to replace the old blokes Murphy, Morris & Boyd. Not Talia, Roberts & Hamling. Talia is already having trouble getting games and we've got to fit Zaine Cordy in yet. Talia didn't put a foot wrong at AFL level, Bevo seems to be rotating the side and seeing what he has to work with which is fine but don't write Talia off as being the centrepiece of our defense for the next 10 years

I was arguing last year that we didn't need another key defender in the draft, that Talia, Roberts & Hamling would serve us well. They have performed beyond expectations, and Hamling has showed he isn't just a 3rd tall and can play on Jeremy Cameron types. Yet the chorus of voices continues to demand we bring in more key defenders

Minson is struggling and Roughead has gone into the ruck yet our defense has held up. Cordy has shown he isn't up to it and Campbell hasn't come on, so why aren't we talking about bringing a ruckman in instead?

Tom Boyd, our 19yo full forward who has been our sole tall target all year, is out with a sore knee and we've had to bring in Redpath for his 5th AFL game to have someone to kick to. So why aren't we talking about bringing in a key forward instead?

Against St Kilda, Tom Boyd was contesting well but there was no-one at his feet to crumb the ball. Dahlhaus has moved into the midfield but we haven't found anyone to fill his role up forward. So why aren't we talking about bringing in a crumber instead?

I don't think we need Corr, and I don't think we need Carlisle in defense. Carlisle up forward would be nice though

[GVGjr]

Minson is struggling and Roughead has gone into the ruck yet our defense has held up. Cordy has shown he isn't up to it and Campbell hasn't come on, so why aren't we talking about bringing a ruckman in instead?

Tom Boyd, our 19yo full forward who has been our sole tall target all year, is out with a sore knee and we've had to bring in Redpath for his 5th AFL game to have someone to kick to. So why aren't we talking about bringing in a key forward instead?

Against St Kilda, Tom Boyd was contesting well but there was no-one at his feet to crumb the ball. Dahlhaus has moved into the midfield but we haven't found anyone to fill his role up forward. So why aren't we talking about bringing in a crumber instead?

I don't think we need Corr, and I don't think we need Carlisle in defense. Carlisle up forward would be nice though

The coach doesn't rate the ruckman that highly so at best our target will be an athletic 2nd stringer as we try and make do with Roughead and someone else.

Boyd has a lot of talent around him, Crameri, Stringer, Dickson and Dahlhaus etc so I don't think a forward is a real requirement.

Carlisle seems to be making all the right noise that he doesn't want to play forward so I do believe that our focus will be on acquiring a key defender so you are basically ruling him out if you only want him in our crowded forward line.
To me Corr also might be an upgrade on the players we have so he does tick a few boxes.

[bornadog]

The coach doesn't rate the ruckman that highly

Seems that is something he has picked up from the last few years at Hawthorn. They don't seem to care too much about the rucks either.

[hujsh]

If anything, we need to replace the old blokes Murphy, Morris & Boyd. Not Talia, Roberts & Hamling. Talia is already having trouble getting games and we've got to fit Zaine Cordy in yet. Talia didn't put a foot wrong at AFL level, Bevo seems to be rotating the side and seeing what he has to work with which is fine but don't write Talia off as being the centrepiece of our defense for the next 10 years

Reports on Zaine seem to indicate he's more a tall flanker ala Mackie. So he's probably more a good replacement for Boyd rather than a potential KPD. Talia did have some good games at AFL level but is now apparently struggling in the VFL. That means our key defenders are Roberts and Hamling and to replace them we'd need to either get Roughie back or promote an under performing player with (supposed) attitude problems. While they've done well so far I don't see how adding some experience would be bad for either of Roberts or Hamling

[jeemak]

Seems that is something he has picked up from the last few years at Hawthorn. They don't seem to care too much about the rucks either.

They took two genuine rucks into the GF last year.

I think they care about them when their rucks are playing well and available, though when they're not doing one, the other or both they seem to work around it.

[Bulldog4life]

They took two genuine rucks into the GF last year.

I think they care about them when their rucks are playing well and available, though when they're not doing one, the other or both they seem to work around it.

Yes and they recruited McEvoy who can't crack it for a game either

[bornadog]

They took two genuine rucks into the GF last year.

I think they care about them when their rucks are playing well and available, though when they're not doing one, the other or both they seem to work around it.

I just feel they are prepared to throw in different options including Roughie, and don't stick to one first ruck.

[jeemak]

Yes and they recruited McEvoy who can't crack it for a game either

He and Hale were the two I was referring to.

[jeemak]

I just feel they are prepared to throw in different options including Roughie, and don't stick to one first ruck.

It would be good to have the positional talent and depth to get away with like they do.

[Bulldog4life]

It is going to be a difficult decision to decide what players will be let go at the end of the year

[ledge]

The one not getting a gig in our firsts who I think does ok when he plays is Campbell , no idea why he hasn't got a go.
Considering we have had issues with Minson and Cordy wasn't doing a thing in the ruck.
He is the one out of the three who can take marks and kick goals up forward too.

[jeemak]

The one not getting a gig in our firsts who I think does ok when he plays is Campbell , no idea why he hasn't got a go.
Considering we have had issues with Minson and Cordy wasn't doing a thing in the ruck.
He is the one out of the three who can take marks and kick goals up forward too.

I'm looking forward to Campbell getting a game and living up to the reputation he's generated through not being given a game.

One way or another we need to find out whether he can play at the level and I'll be disappointed if he's not given a chance.

[The Doctor]

I think we should have a crack at Leuenberger as a FA this year. He has the potential to be an elite ruckman. That would give us one of the best ruck combo's in the league imo.

[always right]

I think we should have a crack at Leuenberger as a FA this year. He has the potential to be an elite ruckman. That would give us one of the best ruck combo's in the league imo.

Don't understand the love for this bloke. What has he done...when he's actually managed to get on the park?

[Remi Moses]

I think we should have a crack at Leuenberger as a FA this year. He has the potential to be an elite ruckman. That would give us one of the best ruck combo's in the league imo.

Thinking the same thing .
He had a great game as the main man on Sandi.
They've got Martin as number one, and I think Luenberger thrives on being the main ruck.

[Remi Moses]

Don't understand the love for this bloke. What has he done...when he's actually managed to get on the park?

I just think like a lot of rucks he needs to be number one .
Seems a host of ruckman don't handle the 20 % ruck and 80 % forward .

[LostDoggy]

Luenberger has played one good game in 3 years, i wouldnt be in a rush to pick him up

[Rocco Jones]

I think we should have a crack at Leuenberger as a FA this year. He has the potential to be an elite ruckman. That would give us one of the best ruck combo's in the league imo.


Don't understand the love for this bloke. What has he done...when he's actually managed to get on the park?


Thinking the same thing .
He had a great game as the main man on Sandi.
They've got Martin as number one, and I think Luenberger thrives on being the main ruck.


I just think like a lot of rucks he needs to be number one .
Seems a host of ruckman don't handle the 20 % ruck and 80 % forward .


Luenberger has played one good game in 3 years, i wouldnt be in a rush to pick him up

I think Leunberger is the perfect moneyball-esque signing.

It's funny when fans want to trade a player from their team, it's when they couldn't be struggling more. When they want someone from another team, it's when that guy is flying. Both pretty bad practices in the stockmarket that is trading.

If I was a list manager I would look at guys who are being devalued by something that suits us/easily changeable. Two 1st rucks at the same club is right at the top of the list in trade value.

Martin and Leunberger are clearly 1st rucks. Stef Martin is one of the best ruckman in the AFL at the moment, which means Leunberger has to be in a role that is alien to him. His trade value is heavily influenced by a role that isn't suited to him and a role we will not play him in.

That 'one good game' amongst a couple of years of trash actually goes towards getting him. He is poor as a 2nd ruck, which lowers his trade value. Is it a coincidence his one good game comes when he plays where he belongs? I really hope Martin doesn't get injured and Leunberger keeps sticking it up in the 2nd ruck role.

[Twodogs]

I think Leunberger is the perfect moneyball-esque signing.

It's funny when fans want to trade a player from their team, it's when they couldn't be struggling more. When they want someone from another team, it's when that guy is flying. Both pretty bad practices in the stockmarket that is trading.

If I was a list manager I would look at guys who are being devalued by something that suits us/easily changeable. Two 1st rucks at the same club is right at the top of the list in trade value.

Martin and Leunberger are clearly 1st rucks. Stef Martin is one of the best ruckman in the AFL at the moment, which means Leunberger has to be in a role that is alien to him. His trade value is heavily influenced by a role that isn't suited to him and a role we will not play him in.

That 'one good game' amongst a couple of years of thrash actually goes towards getting him. He is poor as a 2nd ruck, which lowers his trade value. Is it a coincidence his one good game comes when he plays where he belongs? I really hope Martin doesn't get injured and Leunberger keeps sticking it up in the 2nd ruck role.

Nicely said Rocco. Buy low, sell high is the idea.

[Maddog37]

H
I think Leunberger is the perfect moneyball-esque signing.

It's funny when fans want to trade a player from their team, it's when they couldn't be struggling more. When they want someone from another team, it's when that guy is flying. Both pretty bad practices in the stockmarket that is trading.

If I was a list manager I would look at guys who are being devalued by something that suits us/easily changeable. Two 1st rucks at the same club is right at the top of the list in trade value.

Martin and Leunberger are clearly 1st rucks. Stef Martin is one of the best ruckman in the AFL at the moment, which means Leunberger has to be in a role that is alien to him. His trade value is heavily influenced by a role that isn't suited to him and a role we will not play him in.

That 'one good game' amongst a couple of years of trash actually goes towards getting him. He is poor as a 2nd ruck, which lowers his trade value. Is it a coincidence his one good game comes when he plays where he belongs? I really hope Martin doesn't get injured and Leunberger keeps sticking it up in the 2nd ruck role.

He is a free agent so no trade needed.

[bulldogtragic]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.

[G-Mo77]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.

Better off with Ayce IMO. I don't see anything in Daw.

[Greystache]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.

I think he'd be a downgrade from Cordy for Footscray.

[bulldogtragic]

Harley Bennell and GCS are widely tipped to part. If we think his mistakes are behind him would he suit the brief of outside running talent? I think he's got the talent at a price of late first round to early second, so there might need to be tinkering or player involved going back.

[Rocco Jones]

He is a free agent so no trade needed.

Wow, even better. I guess the same reasons come into contract negotiations. We can get him on the cheap as his value has been decreased via playing out of position.

[bornadog]

Harley Bennell and GCS are widely tipped to part. If we think his mistakes are behind him would he suit the brief of outside running talent? I think he's got the talent at a price of late first round to early second, so there might need to be tinkering or player involved going back.

You would imagine he would head back to the west.

[bulldogtragic]

You would imagine he would head back to the west.

You'd hope not for his health sake. Not the kind of culture that seems to help in these times.

[Remi Moses]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.
They'd need to pay us for Majak.
Just not up to it, but he's a victim of a few petulant types up forward.

[G-Mo77]

Harley Bennell and GCS are widely tipped to part. If we think his mistakes are behind him would he suit the brief of outside running talent? I think he's got the talent at a price of late first round to early second, so there might need to be tinkering or player involved going back.

IF. If his problems are all behind him then I'd be all over him. The kids a gun.

That is a huge IF though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No to Bennell. Discounting his off-field issues, he doesn't work hard enough on it. Plenty of ability but he's overrated on that alone, little to no defensive game and a huge downhill skier.

No to Leuy - just don't really rate him, but if we signed him for effectively nothing (Free Agency) I could live with it.

[Remi Moses]

It's pretty hard to rate Luenberger in that he's been injured and also isn't the number 1 ruck in his side.
If he keeps performing with Martin out he's stocks will rise quickly.

[Greystache]

We couldn't get him but Beveridge would absolutely love Stephan Martin. He's everything he wants in a ruckman.

A year ago we could've got him for a swap of late picks.

[boydogs]

Bennell is a very tough one. It would be a damaged goods trade in the vein of Aker or Hall, but maybe one that has more impact on the club culture and the rest of the group. He's a very good player though and would fill a need for us

[Go_Dogs]

I'd be a big yes to Harley. Brings some serious star quality into the side and could fill a number of roles.

[Happy Days]

We couldn't get him but Beveridge would absolutely love Stephan Martin. He's everything he wants in a ruckman.

A year ago we could've got him for a swap of late picks.

Agreed - absolute jet. He's the perfect blend of an old-style brute ruckman and modern "athlete". Strong as an ox in a one on one but mobile enough to average mid-20's in possessions.

Will never happen and I'd be stoked to get Leuenberger, but Martin does not get enough adulation due to having to share a field with 10+ NEAFL standard players every week.

[hujsh]

Harley Bennell and GCS are widely tipped to part. If we think his mistakes are behind him would he suit the brief of outside running talent? I think he's got the talent at a price of late first round to early second, so there might need to be tinkering or player involved going back.

Does Libba need a mate (joking)

[bulldogtragic]

Does Libba need a mate (joking)

Funnily enough that might make us a club for him. If we can get Libba back on track and an advocate for our clubs health programs, then Bennell might like knowing he's in a good place that will support him as well as having high expectations on him. Maybe they could have chai together.

[bornadog]

Funnily enough that might make us a club for him. If we can get Libba back on track and an advocate for our clubs health programs, then Bennell might like knowing he's in a good place that will support him as well as having high expectations on him. Maybe they could have chai together.

Maybe Goodes can look after him, he was our welfare officer.

[Dry Rot]

BF rumour that the Swans can't re-sign Jetta at season's end due to cap pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

BF rumour that the Swans can't re-sign Jetta at season's end due to cap pressure.

That's interesting. The Swans ability to get a fair trade diminishes if the market knows they 'can't' sign him. I'm not sold on him as a player though. His last GF was embarrassing.

[Happy Days]

That's interesting. The Swans ability to get a fair trade diminishes if the market knows they 'can't' sign him. I'm not sold on him as a player though. His last GF was embarrassing.

Do we even want him? He hasn't played good footy in 3 years.

[bulldogtragic]

Do we even want him? He hasn't played good footy in 3 years.

With Grant improving, we might need a new whipping boy.

[Happy Days]

With Grant improving, we might need a new whipping boy.

Hunter is coming along nicely

[bulldogtragic]

Hunter is coming along nicely

He's doing well in these stakes. Perhaps if we got Leroy and Neville as well we could really improve our standards and ability to have the best whipping boys in the AFL. Dream big I say.

[ledge]

Can't understand why people are so convinced Hunter isn't any good , he is only 19, give him a break.
I personally think we would be silly to get rid of him.
He is a very quick and cheeky player, could cause havoc in some games.
He is not the hard in and under but he can certainly balk and get away very quickly, just get his delivery right with the game plan and he will be a very good player for us.

[Ozza]

That's interesting. The Swans ability to get a fair trade diminishes if the market knows they 'can't' sign him. I'm not sold on him as a player though. His last GF was embarrassing.

But his first Grand Final was excellent. He wasn't Robinson Crusoe last year.

[Mofra]

Do we even want him? He hasn't played good footy in 3 years.
He'd add to our side, still have a memory of his steaming up the wing in one GF running off Cyril.
The cost is an issue though - I'd rather bank on McLean and JJ naturally improving over next pre-season and bank our pick. Unless it's for a desperate team need (ruckman and perhaps a mature KPD for depth) we have the young kids developing - and Libba will be back next year as another mid to fit in the side.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Keeping the picks is appealing while our recruiters are in such good form

[LostDoggy]

Do we even want him? He hasn't played good footy in 3 years.

Having seen quite a bit of Sydney this year, Jetta has actually had a pretty good year..

Is having a career best year stat wise and has been pretty consistent. He's had the odd quiet game but he only needs 20 touches a game to be damaging. Which is what he is averaging this season.

One of the better kicks in the comp. I would be looking at him for sure.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can't understand why people are so convinced Hunter isn't any good , he is only 19, give him a break.
I personally think we would be silly to get rid of him.
He is a very quick and cheeky player, could cause havoc in some games.

Hunter is quite slow. It's one of his many flaws. He's up against it to become a good player at AFL level IMO, particularly in our side.

Jetta would be a good fit but not for the price we'd have to pay.

[boydogs]

Hunter is quite slow. It's one of his many flaws

Didn't look slow going for the smother last week

[ledge]

Hunter is quite slow. It's one of his many flaws. He's up against it to become a good player at AFL level IMO, particularly in our side.

Jetta would be a good fit but not for the price we'd have to pay.

Greg Williams was extremely slow.

[Twodogs]

Greg Williams was extremely slow.

Brian Wilson was famously slow.

[bulldogtragic]

And Teddy Whitten was a KPP and is nearly 10cm shorter than Grant, Bonts, Macrae.

Comparing current to historical players ain't the best and most water tight argument.

[Happy Days]

And Teddy Whitten was a KPP and is nearly 10cm shorter than Grant, Bonts, Macrae.

Comparing current to historical players ain't the best and most water tight argument.

Or comparing all time champions with anybody.

[Twodogs]

And Teddy Whitten was a KPP and is nearly 10cm shorter than Grant, Bonts, Macrae.

Comparing current to historical players ain't the best and most water tight argument.


John Nicholls was the same height as Sam Power.

[bulldogtragic]

John Nicholls was the same height as Sam Power.

Ah Sam... He was another of my hobby horses. I really wish he could've made the grade, but he was just too good at kicking wide and kicking floaters.

[ledge]

Ah Sam... He was another of my hobby horses. I really wish he could've made the grade, but he was just too good at kicking wide and kicking floaters.

Kicking wide would get you a game nowadays especially at Melbourne.

[westdog54]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.

MAjak is very athletic and he's a great story.

Unfortunately he just hasn't developed as a footballer to the point where I think its worth seeking to trade him in.

He still doesn't ahve the awareness and smarts necessary to make it long term.

[Sedat]

Ah Sam... He was another of my hobby horses. I really wish he could've made the grade, but he was just too good at kicking wide and kicking floaters.
If only the goalposts were located on the wings, Sammy could have been an AFL hall-of-fame inductee

[bornadog]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/Buttons%20icons/threadjacked_zps14944a1a.gif

[Sedat]

Provided Majak Daw isn't found guilty of rape in his upcoming trial and the club was happy enough with his character etc, would he be an upgrade on Ayce. I can see him asking for a trade and seems as moneyball-esq.
Majak is an interesting one. His knowledge of the game has improved (where to run to, etc..) in his time in the AFL system, and he does seem a cut above VFL level. I just don't think his rate of improvement has been quick enough - it is certainly slower than Redpath's, who still has question marks about making it long-term at this level. That means he still goes for long spells in AFL matches without impacting at all. He has also played at probably the worst club for him in terms of being behind so many others on Norf's list in the ruck/forward area - he probably would have played 50 games at another club with less depth in their ruck stocks. He'd certainly increase our membership but about 2,000 just with his extended family :D

[Happy Days]

There is nothing enticing about Majak Daw - he can't mark, can't get the ball, and as Sedat said goes very long stretches without impacting games at all.

Plus there's that rape charge. No thanks.

[Twodogs]

We could probably do with sticking to the point for a while.

[comrade]

There is nothing enticing about Majak Daw - he can't mark, can't get the ball, and as Sedat said goes very long stretches without impacting games at all.

Plus there's that rape charge. No thanks.

He marked and kicked alright the night he tore us a new one.

Though he was playing a VFL standard defence with Aussie and Marko manning the fort.

[stefoid]

Smedts?

[Webby]

Smedts?

I would've taken Smedts a couple of years back, but i honestly think we've gone past Geelong. We've also got a couple of conundrums in making space for Roarke Smith as well as space for some draftees.

In short, we're in a good space at the moment. Nice problems to have!

[always right]

And that's the question......who would you prefer, Smedts or Rourke Smith? Easy choice for mine. Rourke Smith is another Easton Wood in the making.

[comrade]

Roarke all the way. Will be a gun.

[bulldogtragic]

I pay scant attention to Essendon but just had my memory jotted that Bellchambers is a FA. There's a part of me that remembers his very good season a few ago, but then remembers Daniel Bandy as well. If Kruezer, Luey and Bellchambers were all available at years end and obviously without trade who would we prefer (dependant on salary)?

For me, I think that all could be potential first ruckman next year. If we had to facilitate Minson moving on to free up the cap, I think we should do it despite all having injuries over the years.

[GVGjr]

I suspect our ambitions for landing a ruckman will be focused on someone who is currently finding it difficult to replace the incumbent but who is also still on the young side. He will have to be mobile and capable of playing in another position.

[SlimPickens]

I suspect our ambitions for landing a ruckman will be focused on someone who is currently finding it difficult to replace the incumbent but who is also still on the young side. He will have to be mobile and capable of playing in another position.

Daniel Gorringe?

[GVGjr]

Daniel Gorringe?

His name has been mentioned. GC players could be a problem though. He has struggled this year.

[ledge]

I would put money on Rourke Smith being up graded or at the least getting a two year rookie contract , he was only signed on a one year deal for this year.
Gee he is well built for his age and naturally a reader of the play . Can also break tackles . The other week against northern blues he just ripped past three players on the boundary you heard the hits and the hardness he had in him and they couldn't stop him.
Interestingly enough I had blues hierarchy next to me in awe asking who is this kid.

[Mantis]

Daniel Gorringe?

Pass.. From I have seen he isn't a strong competitor.

[divvydan]

A guy that I would've been big on this time last year (and who re-signed for 4 years late last season) is Scott Lycett. Only 22 and shown he can play decently both as a ruckman and as a forward but has really struggled this year for whatever reason.

[Doc26]

Daniel Gorringe?

No for me.

Tom Nichols and Zac Smith are both ahead of him and neither have stamped themselves. Gorringe's form in the NEAFL has only been so so.

[GVGjr]

No for me.

Tom Nichols and Zac Smith are both ahead of him and neither have stamped themselves. Gorringe's form in the NEAFL has only been so so.

And that's probably being kind. I'd certainly be more interested in sounding out Lycett

[Dry Rot]

Have seen a rumour that Stefan Martin wants to return to Melbourne (city not club).

Thoughts?

[Happy Days]

Have seen a rumour that Stefan Martin wants to return to Melbourne (city not club).

Thoughts?

YES.

Seriously though yes. As long as he doesn't cost too much he's pretty much exactly what I described in the the Boyd thread as my ideal ruckman.

[GVGjr]

Have seen a rumour that Stefan Martin wants to return to Melbourne (city not club).

Thoughts?

Very good modern day ruckman. He will find a home easily.

[Greystache]

Have seen a rumour that Stefan Martin wants to return to Melbourne (city not club).

Thoughts?

He is Beveridge's prototype ruckman.

[Dry Rot]

Great interview with Simon Dalrymple

http://www.afl.com.au/draft/road-to-the-draft

[Remi Moses]

We'd have to be making a play for Martin.

[lemmon]

We'd have to be making a play for Martin.

Tough one to value. They'll want something pretty substantial in return but he's 29 already

[bornadog]

Tough one to value. They'll want something pretty substantial in return but he's 29 already

Too old.

[Mofra]

Tough one to value. They'll want something pretty substantial in return but he's 29 already
Ruckmen are the exception - they tend to start and finish a little later.
3-4 years as a legitimate no 1 ruck out of a ruckman isn't far below what we realistically got from Minson in 10+ years on the list, considering development time and trading in Hudson during our better years.

[Greystache]

Ruckmen are the exception - they tend to start and finish a little later.
3-4 years as a legitimate no 1 ruck out of a ruckman isn't far below what we realistically got from Minson in 10+ years on the list, considering development time and trading in Hudson during our better years.

Ben Hudson was also 29 when we traded for him.

[The Doctor]

I'd go Leuenberger ahead of Martin.

He is also a genuine no.1 ruckman, younger, bigger, and wouldn't cost us anything as he is a RFA.

Martin got his chance when Leuenberger got injured and has performed superbly thus making it difficult for Leuenberger to reclaim the no.1 ruck at the Lions. I maintain the Leuey has the ability to be an elite AFL ruckman.

[bornadog]

I'd go Leuenberger ahead of Martin.

He is also a genuine no.1 ruckman, younger, bigger, and wouldn't cost us anything as he is a RFA.

Martin got his chance when Leuenberger got injured and has performed superbly thus making it difficult for Leuenberger to reclaim the no.1 ruck at the Lions. I maintain the Leuey has the ability to be an elite AFL ruckman.

I agree with this, at 27 years of age he should be in his prime with a young Bulldogs list ready to play finals in the next few years.

[Axe Man]

An article in the Herald Sun today mentions that we are interested in Leuenberger (along with Geelong and Essendon).

[Twodogs]

An article in the Herald Sun today mentions that we are interested in Leuenberger (along with Geelong and Essendon).

Why did they trade in Giles anyway?

[Happy Days]

Why did they trade in Giles anyway?

Same reason they got all the other recycled players, they thought they would have a choice but to play them.

The tribunal should have seen the Gwilt recruitment as an admission of guilt and given their deliberation right then and there.

[Twodogs]

Same reason they got all the other recycled players, they thought they would have a choice but to play them.

The tribunal should have seen the Gwilt recruitment as an admission of guilt and given their deliberation right then and there.


Very true. Why get him?

[Mofra]

The tribunal should have seen the Gwilt recruitment as an admission of guilt and given their deliberation right then and there.
"I plead Gwilty your honour"

I really think Essnedon's list management has been the worst in the competition in the past few years. Topping up for a tilt at <saving Hird's job> finals and failing.

[Happy Days]

"I plead Gwilty your honour"

I really think Essnedon's list management has been the worst in the competition in the past few years. Topping up for a tilt at <saving Hird's job> finals and failing.

My friend named his supercoach side "Not Gwilty", still losing it at it to this day.

[Axe Man]

Staying or going? This year's AFL exchange period previewed (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-30/staying-or-going-this-years-afl-exchange-period-previewed)

An excerpt of players linked to us in the above article:

Jake Carlisle, Essendon, out of contract
The Bombers big man has struggled in attack this season but is in serious demand among rival clubs, with the Western Bulldogs, Carlton and North Melbourne already linked to him. The Bombers are understood to be increasingly confident of re-signing the 23-year-old, but will be competing with offers of up to $700,000 a season and teams prepared to play him exclusively in defence. Carlisle is believed to be reluctant to move outside Victoria.

Matthew Leuenberger, Brisbane Lions, restricted free agent
Several teams are in the market for a ruckman this season and Leuenberger is one of the most keenly sought after, with Essendon, Geelong and the Western Bulldogs understood to be interested. The Lions seem to have settled on Stefan Martin as their No.1 ruckman, so the West Australian could see more opportunity elsewhere. The Lions can match any rival offer for Leuenberger, but could be willing to let him go if the prospective compensation pick is attractive enough. The Sydney Swans would like to make a play for the ruckman but won't be serious contenders because of their trade restrictions.

Zac Smith, Gold Coast, out of contract
The Queenslander has struggled for opportunities this season with the Suns largely preferring Tom Nicholls as their No.1 ruckman. The 25-year-old has already been linked with Essendon and could also appeal to other clubs in the market for a ruckman such as Geelong and the Western Bulldogs.

[LostDoggy]

Heard Plough on SEN today on Harftime saying that Leunberger would be the perfect fit for us.

[bulldogtragic]

Why not have all 3?

[comrade]

I'd be touching base with Liam Duggan's manager.

3 Eagles extended their deals today and he wasn't one of them.

Whispers of homesickness.

Jet midfielder.

Would give up this year's first and our 2nd pick next year or something...

[Rocco Jones]

Once again, really do not like that part of Carislie's issues/demands seems to be playing exclusively in defense.

[Remi Moses]

In fairness Carlisle and his manager denied those claims.
Might be other issues on the table there.

[comrade]

Carlisle won't be at the Bulldogs next year.

[azabob]

Carlisle won't be at the Bulldogs next year.

Hunch or source?

[comrade]

Hunch or source?

Just a hunch.

[boydogs]

We're also mentioned for Henderson

Lachie Henderson, Carlton, out of contract
Carlton remains hopeful of retaining Henderson, but Geelong and the Western Bulldogs have made big plays for the 25-year-old swingman. Like Dangerfield, it is understood Henderson will either re-sign or move to Simonds Stadium. The Cats appear slight favourites to get their man, who could command up to $600,000 a season.

[Doc26]

We're also mentioned for Henderson

Lachie Henderson, Carlton, out of contract
Carlton remains hopeful of retaining Henderson, but Geelong and the Western Bulldogs have made big plays for the 25-year-old swingman. Like Dangerfield, it is understood Henderson will either re-sign or move to Simonds Stadium. The Cats appear slight favourites to get their man, who could command up to $600,000 a season.

When are these players going to realise that Geelong / Carlton is rear view mirror looking, with us soon to make the big Sepetmber play :). Guys get on while you can.

[always right]

Interesting listening to Jason McCartney at the East West annual dinner last night where he once again explained the clubs approach to drafting over recent years.

1. The club needed to inject as much new talent as possible so simply draft the best players available.
2. Don't strech for players for positional needs unless there is marginal difference between the players being considered.
3. Use trading and free agency to target positional needs.

This explains last year's draft where we appeared to draft similar players both in terms of this draft group as well as the players we already have on our list. We simply drafted the players we rated the highest.

He also expressed surprise that so many of last year's draft group have played this year and made strong contributions. Seems that any of them playing seniors this season was considered a bonus.

[westdog54]

Interesting listening to Jason McCartney at the East West annual dinner last night where he once again explained the clubs approach to drafting over recent years.

1. The club needed to inject as much new talent as possible so simply draft the best players available.
2. Don't strech for players for positional needs unless there is marginal difference between the players being considered.
3. Use the draft and free agency to target positional needs.

This explains last year's draft where we appeared to draft similar players both in terms of this draft group as well as the players we already have on our list. We simply drafted the players we rated the highest.

He also expressed surprise that so many of last year's draft group have played this year and made strong contributions. Seems that any of them playing seniors this season was considered a bonus.

Should that be use trade and free agency to target positional needs?

[Axe Man]

We're also mentioned for Henderson

Lachie Henderson, Carlton, out of contract
Carlton remains hopeful of retaining Henderson, but Geelong and the Western Bulldogs have made big plays for the 25-year-old swingman. Like Dangerfield, it is understood Henderson will either re-sign or move to Simonds Stadium. The Cats appear slight favourites to get their man, who could command up to $600,000 a season.

Whoops. Missed that one. Funny I've never heard us linked to Henderson before. Wonder if this means we aren't really after Carlisle or we are just having a crack at both in the hope to get one of them?

[Bulldog Joe]

Whoops. Missed that one. Funny I've never heard us linked to Henderson before. Wonder if this means we aren't really after Carlisle or we are just having a crack at both in the hope to get one of them?

Maybe we just put an offer on the table to make sure opposition clubs must pay top odds.

[Bulldog4life]

Whoops. Missed that one. Funny I've never heard us linked to Henderson before. Wonder if this means we aren't really after Carlisle or we are just having a crack at both in the hope to get one of them?

As mentioned previously Jason Mac was at the Hawks V CARTON game last week. Might have had Hendo in his sights

[Ghost Dog]

When are these players going to realise that Geelong / Carlton is rear view mirror looking, with us soon to make the big Sepetmber play :). Guys get on while you can.

Because Geelong know how to look after their players ($) with under the table deals. At least, that's what I heard while living in Geelong.

[azabob]

Aidan Corr has re-signed with GWS. I know GVGjr was keen on him.



http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-31/gws-resigns-promising-defenders

[GVGjr]

Aidan Corr has re-signed with GWS. I know GVGjr was keen on him.



http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-31/gws-resigns-promising-defenders

Ive moved on to Plowman. Good attacking defender who would thrive under Luke Beveridge.

[azabob]

Ive moved on to Plowman. Good attacking defender who would thrive under Luke Beveridge.

He was an early draft pick back 2012, what do you think we would have to give up for him and what role do you see him playing?

Would he be competing with Wood, Z.Cordy and to a lesser degree Webb?

Personally I think we still need another key position size player 195cm plus and 95kg plus rather than someone his size.

[azabob]

I still think our biggest need is a midefileder who is quick, highly skilled (both sides) who is a goal kicker.

Then a key position defender (195cm plus, 95kg plus) who can play on the players like Tom Hawkins, J.Roughead etc.

Then a ruckman.

Certainly will be an interesting off season at the trade table and draft table.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I want us to target some raw pace. Thought Garlett was worth chasing last year, gee Melbourne got him cheap.

[GVGjr]

He was an early draft pick back 2012, what do you think we would have to give up for him and what role do you see him playing?

Would he be competing with Wood, Z.Cordy and to a lesser degree Webb?

Personally I think we still need another key position size player 195cm plus and 95kg plus rather than someone his size.

I don't think it matters too much for Beveridge coached team. Plowman is 193cm, tough and attacks the game which are the traits I think we would look favourably towards. Out of Talia, Roughead, Roberts and Hamling I think Plowman could be the best of our tall defenders and I think he would slot in nicely as a CHB.
They would want our first round pick.

The quick fix is Carlisle or maybe Henderson who's names we have been linked to but I think we need to look a bit deeper.

I don't like having two drafts in a row without a first round pick but I suspect we could be keen to use it to acquire a good player who has been in the system a few years.

[GVGjr]

If we are really into Carlisle we need to have a serious rethink. I'd question his spirit on what I have seen today.

[Happy Days]

Ive moved on to Plowman. Good attacking defender who would thrive under Luke Beveridge.

Great name too.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If we are really into Carlisle we need to have a serious rethink. I'd question his spirit on what I have seen today.

I know where you're coming from but I don't think this is black and white. He looks like a player totally disinterested but given the circumstances of that club I wouldn't blame any player for being disenchanted. Jobe Watson is one of the best mids in the game but was awful this season and by his own admission he'd had enough.

[GVGjr]

I know where you're coming from but I don't think this is black and white. He looks like a player totally disinterested but given the circumstances of that club I wouldn't blame any player for being disenchanted. Jobe Watson is one of the best mids in the game but was awful this season and by his own admission he'd had enough.

Carlisle's head's not on football, perhaps it's more on a move, but I can't justify using an early pick on him based on what I'm seeing.
Unlike Watson, his best isn't backed up week after week and it's sporadic at best.
Coming out of contract he has plenty to play for and if he can't be bothered doing that then he isn't worth that much to me.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Carlisle's head's not on football, perhaps it's more on a move, but I can't justify using an early pick on him based on what I'm seeing.
Unlike Watson, his best isn't backed up week after week and it's sporadic at best.
Coming out of contract he has plenty to play for and if he can't be bothered doing that then he isn't worth that much to me.

Carlisle's been pretty good for Essendon prior to this season. I know he did have some issues last year, but he still played some solid footy for a young KPP - isn't he only 22/23? That's a baby in KPP terms.

Most of us were happy enough to cough up millions, our first pick AND Griffen for Boyd who is/was far less proven. I know the circumstances were different, but I'm not sure why you're so cold on Carlisle when he has proven himself to be a match winner and match saver. Not consistently - but what 22/23 y.o KPP are?

If we had pick between 1-5 I'd agree but our first pick is looking more like 10-14. If we were happy enough to pull the trigger, I'd welcome it. Talia isn't up to it, Roberts is injury prone (but I really like him), Roughy is injury prone and arguably more of a ruck/forward now and Hamling is a good third tall.

If it were a case of Henderson/lesser pick and cash vs Carlisle/higher pick and more cash I'd be torn. Perhaps Henderson.

[azabob]

TBB, I rate Henderson, but is he more of the same of what we have size wise?

[Ozza]

If we are really into Carlisle we need to have a serious rethink. I'd question his spirit on what I have seen today.

Agree. I think chasing him or Henderson would be pure craziness. Both players have teased with the odd good game - but largely, they have been pretty ordinary players and are going to be way overpriced.

I'm quite happy with our stocks - and am not convinced we NEED to be throwing ourselves into the free agency arena again this year. I'd love for us to back the current group. Back Roberts and Hamling to be the main men in defence. Persist with Talia as back up to those two. Persist with Campbell & Roughead also.

[always right]

Whilst it was hardly a performance that inspired, Carlisle was by far their best defender yesterday....I like him as a key defender and believe he would be a significant upgrade on what we currently have.

[bornadog]

Whilst it was hardly a performance that inspired, Carlisle was by far their best defender yesterday....I like him as a key defender and believe he would be a significant upgrade on what we currently have.

I think he would fit in well at CHB. I have no interest in Henderson at all.

[boydogs]

Talia isn't up to it

Gave away 5cm to Daniher yesterday as the #1 KPD and kept him to 1 goal

[LostDoggy]

I have heard that we may have made some polite enquiries around the P.Dangerfield camp. May seem a long shot, but consider the following:

- PD apparently wants to return to Vic to be close to his family who live in the Geelong area (which puts Geelong in the box seat, and us as clear next option).
- It has recently been reported that Geelong are certainties to sign Scott Selwood at over $500k per year, tightening their potential offer.
- If PD comes to Vic, he reportedly really wants to come to a club with top 4 potential in the next couple of years.
- Talia would like to join his brother at Adelaide and would be a willing participant in a potential trade package.

Hmmmm.

[bornadog]

I have heard that we may have made some polite enquiries around the P.Dangerfield camp. May seem a long shot, but consider the following:

- PD apparently wants to return to Vic to be close to his family who live in the Geelong area (which puts Geelong in the box seat, and us as clear next option).
- It has recently been reported that Geelong are certainties to sign Scott Selwood at over $500k per year, tightening their potential offer.
- If PD comes to Vic, he reportedly really wants to come to a club with top 4 potential in the next couple of years.
- Talia would like to join his brother at Adelaide and would be a willing participant in a potential trade package.

Hmmmm.

Would fit in nicely.

[Happy Days]

Would fit in nicely.

He'd be our best player.

This would be so good; as sensible as a KPD would be for our list, doesn't it make even more sense to bring in a top 5 player in the league and watch him kick 6 and rack up 35 whenever he wants.

Dangerfield rocks.

[Bulldog Joe]

He'd be our best player.

This would be so good; as sensible as a KPD would be for our list, doesn't it make even more sense to bring in a top 5 player in the league and watch him kick 6 and rack up 35 whenever he wants.

Dangerfield rocks.

He might have some competition over the next 3 years.

We have some seriously good talent already on the list.

When you look at the current list, it will be difficult to bring players in, unless we trade players out.

Aren't we required to have 3 picks in the draft?

Apart from Fuller everyone else seems to have some claim to remain on a list (even if it isn't ours)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

TBB, I rate Henderson, but is he more of the same of what we have size wise?

He's listed at 196cms and 96kgs - pretty big guy even though he doesn't necessarily look it.

I think he's a better defender, but he can offer something up forward too - flexibility is crucial and he'd offer something that our other defenders/forwards can't. He's 25 years old - perfect age for our group.


Gave away 5cm to Daniher yesterday as the #1 KPD and kept him to 1 goal

Essendon had about 25 I50's and their delivery was woeful. Daniher missed one or two and gave one off late too. Talia lost an incredible amount of one on one contests. Don't forget a third gamer toweled him up in several contests last week.

We're going really well but our KPD stocks are still a concern and Talia is miles off it to put it nicely.


I have heard that we may have made some polite enquiries around the P.Dangerfield camp. May seem a long shot, but consider the following:

- PD apparently wants to return to Vic to be close to his family who live in the Geelong area (which puts Geelong in the box seat, and us as clear next option).
- It has recently been reported that Geelong are certainties to sign Scott Selwood at over $500k per year, tightening their potential offer.
- If PD comes to Vic, he reportedly really wants to come to a club with top 4 potential in the next couple of years.
- Talia would like to join his brother at Adelaide and would be a willing participant in a potential trade package.

Hmmmm.

I'd be over the moon if we landed Dangerfield.

As much as we need a KPD, I'd take Danger over one any day of the week.

[bulldogtragic]

He's listed at 196cms and 96kgs - pretty big guy even though he doesn't necessarily look it.

I think he's a better defender, but he can offer something up forward too - flexibility is crucial and he'd offer something that our other defenders/forwards can't. He's 25 years old - perfect age for our group.

Essendon had about 25 I50's and their delivery was woeful. Daniher missed one or two and gave one off late too. Talia lost an incredible amount of one on one contests. Don't forget a third gamer toweled him up in several contests last week.

We're going really well but our KPD stocks are still a concern and Talia is miles off it to put it nicely.



I'd be over the moon if we landed Dangerfield.

As much as we need a KPD, I'd take Danger over one any day of the week.

Talia and pick 18. I'd love that.

[bornadog]

Talia and pick 18. I'd love that.

Adelaide have brothers and we have a gun midfielder.

[Happy Days]

Talia and pick 18. I'd love that.

Do we even have to trade? I'm pretty sure we just have to have the most money.

[lemmon]

Adelaide have brothers and we have a gun midfielder.

If we get him it'll be through free agency. Adelaide would laugh us out of the room if that was our offer

[Greystache]

Do we even have to trade? I'm pretty sure we just have to have the most money.

He's a restricted free agent, Adelaide have to choose not to match the highest offer externally. A trade of Talia and a swap of picks might have to be considered to persuade them from blocking his move. Not that I think we'd realistically be in the race.

[LostDoggy]

Not if they know he's a free agent who's going anyway.

Maybe a 2nd player or a 2nd draft pick to seal the deal though.

[Greystache]

Talia and pick 18. I'd love that.

Subtle... Think it might have slipped through to the keeper for a few!

[lemmon]

Not if they know he's a free agent who's going anyway.

Maybe a 2nd player or a 2nd draft pick to seal the deal though.

If they know he's going anyway you don't think every club below us wouldn't be throwing their first pick at him too? I seriously think we're underrating him here, we weren't going to move on Griff for less than Tom Boyd... Dangerfield is a better player than Griff has ever been and is significantly younger (different situations, talking about currency).

If he moves via trade it's going to be for a top 5 pick and a promising kid ala Beams

[Happy Days]

He's a restricted free agent, Adelaide have to choose not to match the highest offer externally. A trade of Talia and a swap of picks might have to be considered to persuade them from blocking his move. Not that I think we'd realistically be in the race.

I know. But imagine the mid/forward Dangerfield/Stringer rotation. That's something I need to see in my lifetime.

[kruder]

I know. But imagine the mid/forward Dangerfield/Stringer rotation. That's something I need to see in my lifetime.

Can we actually afford to spend 700k on Jake and fit him in the cap going forward? Its a no for me at the price. I don't want to end up like Sydney who have thrown all their eggs in a few baskets. You need depth.

[kruder]

Can we actually afford to spend 700k on Jake C and fit him in the cap going forward? Its a no for me at the price. I don't want to end up like Sydney who have thrown all their eggs in a few baskets. You need depth.

Opps that wasn't meant to be a reply to you Happy Days just a comment

[Happy Days]

Can we actually afford to spend 700k on Jake and fit him in the cap going forward? Its a no for me at the price. I don't want to end up like Sydney who have thrown all their eggs in a few baskets. You need depth.

Sydney's depth problem stems as much from not rotating guys through their 22 as much as it does "overpaying" Tippett and Bud. They'd have to have as many guys on 0 AFL games as I can ever remember a club having.

[Happy Days]

Opps that wasn't meant to be a reply to you Happy Days just a comment

Was going to say, would that mean you don't want the Godzilla rotation? What's wrong with you!

[lemmon]

Sydney's depth problem stems as much from not rotating guys through their 22 as much as it does "overpaying" Tippett and Bud. They'd have to have as many guys on 0 AFL games as I can ever remember a club having.

And it's not like anyone's leaving either, for all the talk about so much cash going to so few the Parker, Hannerbery and Tom Mitchell types aren't being poached

[Happy Days]

And it's not like anyone's leaving either, for all the talk about so much cash going to so few the Parker, Hannerbery and Tom Mitchell types aren't being poached

I've got a running theory that the bottom end of their list are paying subbies to get a game. They're actually profiting off of Craig Bird, for example.

[Twodogs]

I've got a running theory that the bottom end of their list are paying subbies to get a game. They're actually profiting off of Craig Bird, for example.

That makes far more sense than Sydney paying him to play. That's just silly.

[bulldogtragic]

Subtle... Think it might have slipped through to the keeper for a few!

Seems too have... :D

[Greystache]

That makes far more sense than Sydney paying him to play. That's just silly.

Not sure Shaun Higgins would agree. I believe Bird refers to Higgins as bitch.

[Greystache]

And it's not like anyone's leaving either, for all the talk about so much cash going to so few the Parker, Hannerbery and Tom Mitchell types aren't being poached

Mostly because the clubs that targeted the likes of Mitchell and Reid, who have long term contracts but were playing NEAFL, got the shock of their lives to find out they were getting $600K a season to do so. Victorian clubs down the bottom of the ladder couldn't fit Sydney's fringe players in their salary cap.

The conspiracy theorist says the AFL's ban on Sydney bringing in more high priced recruits was more about the fact Sydney were conservatively $3-4 million over the salary cap and the AFL made it all about the COLA to deflect away from the real issue with it's favourite child.

[Happy Days]

Not sure Shaun Higgins would agree. I believe Bird refers to Higgins as bitch.

That game was the death of Shaun Higgins as a Bulldog, shame the club took 3 more years to realise it.

[bornadog]

Seems too have... :D

we did get it, dreaming at the same time.:)

[GVGjr]

He might have some competition over the next 3 years.

We have some seriously good talent already on the list.

When you look at the current list, it will be difficult to bring players in, unless we trade players out.

Aren't we required to have 3 picks in the draft?

Apart from Fuller everyone else seems to have some claim to remain on a list (even if it isn't ours)

You can delist and redraft though plus rookie elevations count in the 3. Smith would be a lock for a promotion and Kelly might be a chance as well.

[GVGjr]

Carlisle's been pretty good for Essendon prior to this season. I know he did have some issues last year, but he still played some solid footy for a young KPP - isn't he only 22/23? That's a baby in KPP terms.

Most of us were happy enough to cough up millions, our first pick AND Griffen for Boyd who is/was far less proven. I know the circumstances were different, but I'm not sure why you're so cold on Carlisle when he has proven himself to be a match winner and match saver. Not consistently - but what 22/23 y.o KPP are?

If we had pick between 1-5 I'd agree but our first pick is looking more like 10-14. If we were happy enough to pull the trigger, I'd welcome it. Talia isn't up to it, Roberts is injury prone (but I really like him), Roughy is injury prone and arguably more of a ruck/forward now and Hamling is a good third tall.

If it were a case of Henderson/lesser pick and cash vs Carlisle/higher pick and more cash I'd be torn. Perhaps Henderson.

First up we overpaid on Boyd but he brings vastly more to the club in terms of members and recognition than Carlisle would. We had to make a statement after losing the coach and captain but that doesn't need to occur again this year. We simply don't need to go hard at chasing a player this year unless he fits us perfectly.

Despite reading comments that Henderson looks small (even though he and Carlisle would be close) I don't believe that height is the be all and end all in a Luke Beveridge defensive unit. Our players spend more time defending space than standing shoulder to shoulder with opponents and it's more about footy smarts and attacking play. It's the reason why Wood has become and intercept machine, why Murphy and Johannisen light it up on the the fast break and why a player Geelong regarded as too small in their back line to go shoulder to shoulder with big opponents has done pretty well in ours.

The most important attribute we should be looking at is the ability of a player to provide an attacking option. Yes they need to be a certain height but people are arguing over the merits of a couple of cm here and there when I don't think that matters much in our set-up.

Now on to Carlisle, you seem to say that this year should be written off to some extent and we need to look at the bigger picture well in 2014 he had 2 sensational games up forward with one of them against us but flopped in his next 3 games against Grundy, Rance and Thompson from GC. Prior to that he got beaten by Cheney, Delaney and was out pointed by Pedersen.

I'd rate 2014 as one of promise but somewhat short on delivery which I acknowledge is something young KP players might do. He was pretty good in 2013 and was matched against some of the competitions better players but it's been a long while between good performances for mine.

I don't think his mind is on football and in the middle of some average form I don't believe he has worked hard enough.

At his best he is probably worth the draft pick we could offer but it's been 2 years since he has produced that sort of form.

The other thing is I'm not that keen on trading away a first round pick this year after losing our one last year.

Carlisle interests me but I think we should be looking to see if there is a better fit.

[chef]

Carlisle is getting offered 700k for 5 seasons from Freo. Can't see us being into to him for that kind of cash.

[Doc26]

Ive moved on to Plowman. Good attacking defender who would thrive under Luke Beveridge.

Unfortunately he re-signed with them (GWS) some time back until the end of the 2016 season, although this didn't stop us prying TBoyd from them :p. Personally I'd love us to go hard at Treloar assuming he hasn't already committed to Collingwood, call it belated compensation for Ward.

[Bulldog Joe]

You can delist and redraft though plus rookie elevations count in the 3. Smith would be a lock for a promotion and Kelly might be a chance as well.

We still need to move on 3 from the senior list.

Fuller looks certain to go, but we need to move on 2 more via delisting or trade. There are a few candidates but it is very few when compared to previous seasons.

[Doc26]

Now on to Carlisle, you seem to say that this year should be written off to some extent and we need to look at the bigger picture well in 2014 he had 2 sensational games up forward with one of them against us but flopped in his next 3 games against Grundy, Rance and Thompson from GC. Prior to that he got beaten by Cheney, Delaney and was out pointed by Pedersen.


A name that doesn't get brought up often. A key position defender who I believe is un-signed at the end of this season.

Has had a bit of an injury interrupted run at it to date but at ~24-25 years of age and at 200cm who has held the gorilla forwards is there any value to us at the right price ? The GC guys are surely there for the picking with their cultural issues now well known.

[Mofra]

Carlisle is getting offered 700k for 5 seasons from Freo. Can't see us being into to him for that kind of cash.
fair coin - slightly less than Frawley if you believe the rumours. KPPs are certainly attracting a premium on the open market.

[stefoid]

Mark Stevens tweeted we arent/dont want Carlisle.

[comrade]

The Essendon game just proves how important utilising the rookie list is.

I'd much rather invest in a speculative young player with even just a single AFL trait - like Dahlhaus with his agility or JJ with his speed - than top up the rookie list with mature age players who have limited upside.

I understand the need for injury cover and bigger, stronger bodies definitely have their place but it would be a tragedy to miss out on a Dahlhaus by going for a Goodes.

Roarke Smith is a definite upgrade, IMO.
Goodes and Pearce are no longer required.
Kelly can have another year as I think his assuredness with ball in hand is an AFL trait.

We should be stocking up again with the best un-drafted young talent available.

[G-Mo77]

We still need to move on 3 from the senior list.

Fuller looks certain to go, but we need to move on 2 more via delisting or trade. There are a few candidates but it is very few when compared to previous seasons.

That's a good thing! :)

Talia, Hunter and Grant have not signed up yet. Morris and Boyd are also out of contract. I remember reading Boyd saying this would be his last but I wonder if he's changed his mind on that after what has happened this season.

[Webby]

Whether it's Carlisle from Essendon or Thompson from GC, we must now be very, very attractive to free agent players looking to spend the next 5-6 years of their careers hunting a flag. Not just any flag, but an historic one.

If Carlisle is too thick to see an opportunity to switch from a basket case to an up and coming club who are looking to make history (one that he followed as a kid and whose family still support), then more the pity for him... But not for us. There will be plenty of players wanting to get on board.

If the kid doesn't want it enough, then we're better off focusing elsewhere. However the opportunity is there for Jake Carlisle to really fulfill something every kid dreams of.....

.... Or he could sell it out for cash... And one day, as an old man, he'll realise he missed his chance.

[comrade]

Mark Stevens has just confirmed we're not into Jake Carlisle so whether he wants to come or not, it's moot.

[Webby]

Oh, if Mark Stevens says we're not into him, then it must be true.. He'd definitely know!..

[FrediKanoute]

We still need to move on 3 from the senior list.

Fuller looks certain to go, but we need to move on 2 more via delisting or trade. There are a few candidates but it is very few when compared to previous seasons.

Fuller is a definite.

I also think one of A Cordy, Campbell or Minson are in the gun

Lastly, J Prudden could be considered expendible

Outside chance of hanging up his boots would be one M Boyd.

[kruder]

Courtney Dempsey anyone? I know he has been a naughty boy at times but has the talent and suits our style of play. I'm just trying to think what he is like without the football?

[Mantis]

Courtney Dempsey anyone? I know he has been a naughty boy at times but has the talent and suits our style of play. I'm just trying to think what he is like without the football?

To play where?

Not sure we need another HBF'er

[ledge]

Essendon had a fair few players in the VFL that they touted as stars a few years ago. Now they are languishing, were they the players the club says they or is it is Essendons development set up
Is as bad as melbournes was .
Someone mentioned to me the assistant coaches included Mark Neeld, after his gig at Melbourne went so terribly wrong I can't believe he is an assistant anywhere.

[LostDoggy]

B mac is a development coach at melbourne, I cant get my head around that one.

[Jeanette54]

B mac is a development coach at melbourne, I cant get my head around that one.

Whilst we will never know the whole story with regard to B-Mac's leaving, I think that we must give him credit for his contribution to the success we have enjoyed this year.

Personally I think he is in the position which will best suit both him and his current club.

[stefoid]

B mac is a development coach at melbourne, I cant get my head around that one.

Roos is also Old School and is shaping Melbourne along the same lines as BMac was doing at the dogs, so he asked him onboard.

Will be interesting to see if Melbourne also change their tactics towards a 'team defence' + 'balanced attack/defence' model next year.

No doubt their board will be having a good hard look at almost every move we have made this year to see if they can emulate the results.

[Twodogs]

Essendon had a fair few players in the VFL that they touted as stars a few years ago.

Like Deadeye Dickson and Tom Campbell?

[ledge]

Like Deadeye Dickson and Tom Campbell?

Sorry I meant players playing for them now but aren't AFL .. Tate Pears, Courtney Dempsey etc
We pinched DIxon,Campbell and Stringer due to getting in first at the draft and Macca knew about them before coming to
Us. I remember one if the drafts , I think it was when we took Stringer , Hird gave the filthiest look.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Courtney Dempsey anyone? I know he has been a naughty boy at times but has the talent and suits our style of play. I'm just trying to think what he is like without the football?

I doubt whether we would entertain Dempsey who is very inconsistent and unreliable. Struggles to get a regular game with Essendon which is not a good sign.

[Rocco Jones]

In terms of small/medium defenders we have:
Short term- Murphy, M. Boyd
Peak- Wood
Future- JJ, Webb

I think Zaine Cordy will play in a medium defender style too. Basically, Dempsey isn't good enough for us to consider him. That feels good to say.

[Dry Rot]

Question for Footscray watchers - how do you rate young Coghlan?

Worth drafting or rookie-ing?

[jeemak]

With Fuller and Minson as my two certainties not to be on our senior list next year, I think it's more likely we'll trade someone out for a draft pick beyond these two to snare our three picks.

We have a player in Clay Smith who could be offered up on the cheap to a club willing to take on an inside midfielder to suit needs specific to them, which seemingly are covered at our end.

My view is Smith isn't going to produce any significant senior football in the future, and while it breaks my heart to say it, he in his trading presents and opportunity to reach our minimum draft requirement.

If Clay proves me wrong through playing senior football at another club with some continuity, then I'll accept that price and cheer him on.

[Dry Rot]

With Fuller and Minson as my two certainties not to be on our senior list next year, I think it's more likely we'll trade someone out for a draft pick beyond these two to snare our three picks.

We have a player in Clay Smith who could be offered up on the cheap to a club willing to take on an inside midfielder to suit needs specific to them, which seemingly are covered at our end.

My view is Smith isn't going to produce any significant senior football in the future, and while it breaks my heart to say it, he in his trading presents and opportunity to reach our minimum draft requirement.

If Clay proves me wrong through playing senior football at another club with some continuity, then I'll accept that price and cheer him on.

Why Minson? He's under contract. How would he depart?

And poor old Clay Smith - which club in the right mind would trade for him?

[Remi Moses]

I think Minson's on the outer,but we'd get little for him.
He just can't cover the ground sufficiently, and I'd even have Campbell ahead of him

[jeemak]

Why Minson? He's under contract. How would he depart?

And poor old Clay Smith - which club in the right mind would trade for him?

Minson would depart on the basis of receiving a draft pick for him, from a team that can use him as their first ruck. I don't think we'll be using Minson as our first ruck next year.

If no club would trade for Clay Smith, why would we keep him on our list? What does that say about his value to us?

Unless we specifically have a need to fill by Clay how is his spot on the list justified, if as I believe he isn't going to be in a position to play consistent senior football in the future? If we don't believe he can get back from his injury next year - but has some potential to recover in the next two years - then perhaps we could rookie him and pay him his contracted salary.

It sounds cold, but professional organisations make these decisions on talent all the time and sometimes the decisions they make are really harsh.

[Mantis]

With Fuller and Minson as my two certainties not to be on our senior list next year, I think it's more likely we'll trade someone out for a draft pick beyond these two to snare our three picks.

We have a player in Clay Smith who could be offered up on the cheap to a club willing to take on an inside midfielder to suit needs specific to them, which seemingly are covered at our end.

My view is Smith isn't going to produce any significant senior football in the future, and while it breaks my heart to say it, he in his trading presents and opportunity to reach our minimum draft requirement.

If Clay proves me wrong through playing senior football at another club with some continuity, then I'll accept that price and cheer him on.

You would think that Ayce won't be there either.. Also got doubts on Darley who would need to have a big finish to 2015 to remain on the list.

[always right]

Minson would depart on the basis of receiving a draft pick for him, from a team that can use him as their first ruck. I don't think we'll be using Minson as our first ruck next year.

If no club would trade for Clay Smith, why would we keep him on our list? What does that say about his value to us?

Unless we specifically have a need to fill by Clay how is his spot on the list justified, if as I believe he isn't going to be in a position to play consistent senior football in the future? If we don't believe he can get back from his injury next year - but has some potential to recover in the next two years - then perhaps we could rookie him and pay him his contracted salary.

It sounds cold, but professional organisations make these decisions on talent all the time and sometimes the decisions they make are really harsh.

It's a balancing act between offloading someone who has an uncertain future for the purpose of bringing in a new draftee....versus showing support for someone who is clearly popular amongst his teammates and admired for his work ethic and determination to overcome multiple major injuries.

I like the culture we are creating at the dogs which is all about team first...individual second. I don't think our list is in a desperate position where we need to offload Clay Smith just yet. More than happy to give him one final opportunity. The benefits of doing so may not necessarily be seen in Clay's own performance but in the closer bond between our players.

Sounds a bit warm and fuzzy I know but I think you can do greater harm if you ofload a "club fabric" type of person for short term benefit. I know we did so with Crossy but the circumstances were quite different.