List Management 2015

[Happy Days]

Minson would depart on the basis of receiving a draft pick for him, from a team that can use him as their first ruck. I don't think we'll be using Minson as our first ruck next year.

If no club would trade for Clay Smith, why would we keep him on our list? What does that say about his value to us?

Unless we specifically have a need to fill by Clay how is his spot on the list justified, if as I believe he isn't going to be in a position to play consistent senior football in the future? If we don't believe he can get back from his injury next year - but has some potential to recover in the next two years - then perhaps we could rookie him and pay him his contracted salary.

It sounds cold, but professional organisations make these decisions on talent all the time and sometimes the decisions they make are really harsh.

Gotta disagree man. Clay is under the umbrella of "worth more to us than anyone else" - we have more invested in him, and have invested more in his rehabilitation than anyone else. It's impossible to get a fair trade for him because a) there is no club that would be willing to offer a recoup on that investment, and b) no club would probably be willing to do it.

Also, you've got to see that there is a clear difference between "professional organisations" and football clubs. As much as we want to compare them, they are just different. The drive from the financial bottom line (at least from an on-field perspective) isn't as severe and the game is rife with sentiment. Clay going would have at least some sort of negative effect on the playing group and cause far more harm than good.

[chef]

Yeah, there's no way Clays going anywhere. Could still have a very decent career for us and theres plenty of room on the list.

[Bulldog Joe]

Yeah, there's no way Clays going anywhere. Could still have a very decent career for us and theres plenty of room on the list.

While I don't disagree that Clay can still have a decent career, I'm not sure there is plenty of room on the list. Most on here have been struggling to find the 3 minimum delistings. Note that the only full list players not to play seniors this year are Libba, Darley (who has been close), Hamilton (1st year and slight) and Fuller, who is perenially injured and the only player everybody can agree as a delisting.

I would investigate transferring Clay to the rookie list. It would mean we would still meet his contract and keep him with the group, but it would provide an extra spot in the draft.

[LostDoggy]

I'm in the retain Clay corner as well.

Anytime a club offers up a player with a dire medical record (particularly one in recuperation), other clubs presume the worst and offer bare minimum (if anything). Our players know intimately what he has been through, his value within the group greatly exceeds his market value.

[bornadog]

While I don't disagree that Clay can still have a decent career, I'm not sure there is plenty of room on the list. Most on here have been struggling to find the 3 minimum delistings. Note that the only full list players not to play seniors this year are Libba, Darley (who has been close), Hamilton (1st year and slight) and Fuller, who is perenially injured and the only player everybody can agree as a delisting.

I would investigate transferring Clay to the rookie list. It would mean we would still meet his contract and keep him with the group, but it would provide an extra spot in the draft.

I would rookie him and see how he recovers.

My list now is:

Fuller, Darley, Ayce, trade out Minson, and rookie Clay.

That gives us 5 new recruits which is about right.

[Greystache]

Minson would depart on the basis of receiving a draft pick for him, from a team that can use him as their first ruck. I don't think we'll be using Minson as our first ruck next year.

If no club would trade for Clay Smith, why would we keep him on our list? What does that say about his value to us?

Unless we specifically have a need to fill by Clay how is his spot on the list justified, if as I believe he isn't going to be in a position to play consistent senior football in the future? If we don't believe he can get back from his injury next year - but has some potential to recover in the next two years - then perhaps we could rookie him and pay him his contracted salary.

It sounds cold, but professional organisations make these decisions on talent all the time and sometimes the decisions they make are really harsh.

I think you'd struggle to find a professional organisation in the world that will cut someone who can't perform their job temporarily due to a physical condition, even if that condition looks likely to prevent them doing their job again long term. If a valued employee at a bank developed cancer I can tell you for a fact they would be supported with continued employment and pay in the hope they can return to work at some stage. Even if it looked likely to be terminal they would be supported until the time came they couldn't return. That's was a prefessional organisation does.

You can talk about strategy over culture and having to be ruthless, but as Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Clay will be given every chance to come back from this injury, and if he can't he'll likely retire.

[chef]

I think there's no chance in the world Clay won't be on our main list next season.

[LostDoggy]

Whole trade period just got a whole lot more complex with the AFL today announcing that trading for future draft picks will be part of the system, as of this year. I'm really glad this was introduced at a time when we have a relatively healthy list, potential disaster for a struggling club I'd reckon.

[Rocket Science]

Bev's readily confessed the psychological impact upon the squad of Clay's injury, suggesting it was so profound it helped cost us a result. He's also an avowed embracer of footy's emotional gravitas.

We're clearly in it to win it from a list management perspective, but difficult to see him abiding a decision to discard the bloke. You'd think if Clay goes it'll be because he's unable to continue at this level altogether, not because he's relocated.

[stefoid]

If Minno is not going to get senior games, then a trade is in his best interests as well. Regardless of what we get for him, he might just tell the club to get him to somewhere that will play him.

If such a club exists, doubtless they have already sounded him out.

[jeemak]

I think you'd struggle to find a professional organisation in the world that will cut someone who can't perform their job temporarily due to a physical condition, even if that condition looks likely to prevent them doing their job again long term. If a valued employee at a bank developed cancer I can tell you for a fact they would be supported with continued employment and pay in the hope they can return to work at some stage. Even if it looked likely to be terminal they would be supported until the time came they couldn't return. That's was a prefessional organisation does.

You can talk about strategy over culture and having to be ruthless, but as Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Clay will be given every chance to come back from this injury, and if he can't he'll likely retire.

I take your point (though I'm not sure using banks and employees with terminal cancer is an appropriate analogy - but that's not what the argument is about), and the trading out talk was probably taking things too far.

[mjp]

That's was a prefessional organisation does.

You can talk about strategy over culture and having to be ruthless, but as Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Clay will be given every chance to come back from this injury, and if he can't he'll likely retire.

Umm - sure. But a Bank can employ a new teller whilst the employee goes through their recovery...a footy club has only so many spots on a playing list.

I wouldn't think Smith would be delisted under any circumstances but comparing what happens at a Bank to what happens at a footy club is just not valid...Remember also, he hurt his knee playing and will be on full senior match payments for up to two years (depending on recovery time) - that is not insignificant.

[Twodogs]

Isn't it against Workplace law to sack an employee for getting an illness? It should be.

[jeemak]

Umm - sure. But a Bank can employ a new teller whilst the employee goes through their recovery...a footy club has only so many spots on a playing list.

I wouldn't think Smith would be delisted under any circumstances but comparing what happens at a Bank to what happens at a footy club is just not valid...Remember also, he hurt his knee playing and will be on full senior match payments for up to two years (depending on recovery time) - that is not insignificant.

Plus a bank doesn't have the flexibility to move people to other organisations on the same contractual terms to work in overwhelmingly comparable conditions, like AFL clubs do.

Would Clay be eligible for a mid-year rookie upgrade?

[jeemak]

Isn't it against Workplace law to sack an employee for getting an illness? It should be.

It depends on their capacity to perform duties.

[always right]

With Port seemingly at the front of the queue for Dixon, it's been suggested that their salary cap is tight and they may be forced to offload someone like Lobbe.......understanding that he is contracted for a couple of years. With Ryder as the replacement in the ruck perhaps Lobbe would comfortable leaving for a club on the rise. Any interest?

[Doc26]

With Port seemingly at the front of the queue for Dixon, it's been suggested that their salary cap is tight and they may be forced to offload someone like Lobbe.......understanding that he is contracted for a couple of years. With Ryder as the replacement in the ruck perhaps Lobbe would comfortable leaving for a club on the rise. Any interest?

Lobbe would be an attractive proposition although he is rated at Port and would be surprised to see him offered up. Similarly I understand that our own Tom Campbell is also regarded by our own with how he's tracking. I'm starting to feel that they're prepared to back him in.

Prefer that we enhance our midfield and focus on a Treloar type or now leaning towards just continuing to back ourselves in at the draft and look to improve our draft positions given our recruiting team's recent successes

[jeemak]

I don't see how they can justify kissing their ruck and ruck/forward combo goodbye.

If Lobbe is a salary cap issue for Port, I'm not sure how we'll be able to afford him in a couple of years.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What do we need to win a Premiership?

For me, it's another superstar midfielder who is strong, quick with the ability to win the hard ball but carve sides up on the outside. Our midfield is pretty thin currently; granted, Libba returning will be a huge boost (touch wood) but even so we still lack that extra elite mid. I think we can keep drafting for other areas (including KPD - or trade for one cheapishly) but we're not going to get a bonafide midfield star at any of our picks from this point on.

We really should be going hard for Dangerfield. He's still young (25) and a midfield with Libba/Dangerfield/Bont/Macrae/Wallis/Dahlhaus etc. is potentially one of the best. I know all the talk has been him going to Geelong or staying at Adelaide but I hope we push hard. We're a FAR better proposition than Geelong and need to sell to him that with him, we can win a Premiership.

The question is price. Surely we can at least match what Geelong is offering, or slightly less - but as I said - with a far more attractive future.

[jeemak]

I'd love Dangerfield, but I think we need to sit back and understand that we have two players on our list who are going to be as shattering to opposition teams as he is, in Stringer and Bont.

Like Stringer he's a mid/forward - forward/mid utility and they're the hardest players to find - aside from genuine quality key forwards. Perhaps a good showing in this year's finals will show him we're the place for him to be, though I think we'll find ourselves outbid on him pretty quickly and I don't want to pay as much as he's worth on the open market to get him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd love Dangerfield, but I think we need to sit back and understand that we have two players on our list who are going to be as shattering to opposition teams as he is, in Stringer and Bont.

Like Stringer he's a mid/forward - forward/mid utility and they're the hardest players to find - aside from genuine quality key forwards. Perhaps a good showing in this year's finals will show him we're the place for him to be, though I think we'll find ourselves outbid on him pretty quickly and I don't want to pay as much as he's worth on the open market to get him.

How much are clubs going to offer though? Did I read right that Geelong would offer 700K? If so, surely we can put an offer at $650K?

[jeemak]

How much are clubs going to offer though? Did I read right that Geelong would offer 700K? If so, surely we can put an offer at $650K?

And that would see us out of the picture in my view. We'd need to exceed the Geelong offer to land him and within a very short period of time we'll be needing every cent we can put together.

[LostDoggy]

Our issue is that we have allocated a heap for Boyd and then we have a LOT of players who will be deserving of big increases in the next couple of years. If we go after an A grader, we better seriously front end load.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

And that would see us out of the picture in my view. We'd need to exceed the Geelong offer to land him and within a very short period of time we'll be needing every cent we can put together.

I'm not convinced it'd be all about money for Dangerfield.

More about coming home & having a chance at a Premiership. We can offer both, Geelong can offer only one of those things and it's not the second.

[jeemak]

I'm not convinced it'd be all about money for Dangerfield.

More about coming home & having a chance at a Premiership. We can offer both, Geelong can offer only one of those things and it's not the second.

Footballers aren't that bright or critical of thought when it comes to wads of cash sitting in front of them.

I don't think we'd be able to afford much more that $580-$630K per season for starters, and Geelong have a history of being relevant and close to finals rather than bottoming out, and using that as a case for arguing their prospects of climbing up the ladder again wouldn't be that hard for them.

[Doc26]

What's the latest word on Aish ? Obviously leaving Brisbane and last I heard he was fancied to head to Carlton or back home. His stocks have fallen somewhat during his couple of years up north but he is a kid with a high degree of talent / skill. Might just require a good development and coaching environment. Could see him prosper with our group.

[GVGjr]

What's the latest word on Aish ? Obviously leaving Brisbane and last I heard he was fancied to head to Carlton or back home. His stocks have fallen somewhat during his couple of years up north but he is a kid with a high degree of talent / skill. Might just require a good development and coaching environment. Could see him prosper with our group.

He's probably not an ideal player for us but I do like the idea of getting someone like him to the club. Boyd, Bontempelli and Aish from one draft would be a coup.

[jeemak]

Aish would do for us what every club needs and that is an increase to the overall talent profile of the list.

Quality players who fulfil specific needs aren't always going to be available, though if you can increase your overall talent profile it becomes easier to trade in players when they become available, as you have currency and credibility as a destination for new recruits.

If Aish wasn't hell bent on getting back to Adelaide then I'd take him for the right price without a shadow of a doubt.

[LostDoggy]

I'm really intrigued to see how the trading for future picks plays out. It has the potential for great interest.

For example, if we traded a good player to, say, Gold Coast at this years Trade table, in exchange for their next years first round pick, the following year would be a deathriding roller coaster. If they improve and make finals, our trade will be only worth pick 10 or 12 or whatever, but if they go nowhere it could be a top 3 pick.

So when negotiating for a future pick, a big part of the consideration will be the assessment of the other teams prospects for the following year.

[Doc26]

He's probably not an ideal player for us but I do like the idea of getting someone like him to the club. Boyd, Bontempelli and Aish from one draft would be a coup.


Aish would do for us what every club needs and that is an increase to the overall talent profile of the list.

Quality players who fulfil specific needs aren't always going to be available, though if you can increase your overall talent profile it becomes easier to trade in players when they become available, as you have currency and credibility as a destination for new recruits.

If Aish wasn't hell bent on getting back to Adelaide then I'd take him for the right price without a shadow of a doubt.

Assuming the likes of Dangerfield, Treloar are not uattainable Aish would fall close to being next best available for us on talent, a philosophy that I suspect Dalrymple will still go to the National Draft with.

I'm assuming that Liam Pickering, his manager, remains on good terms with us and sees us as a place that he would recommend to his clients.

I believe that he could yet develop into a talented outside mid for us and complement what should be our strength of inside mids. Further he has shown that he can play in multiple positions which has become a prerequisite.

I haven't done the sums lately but given the odd priority compensation pick and how we're tracking currently we might find ourselves around pick ~15-16. On current trade picks alone this would place us in a more competitive position than Carlton to deal with Brisbane given that Carlton would be most unlikely to cough up their first rounder for him. Adelaide are likely to be better placed than us but again their first round selection/s may end up being overs for where Aish is currently at. Of course, swapping of trades etc come the time will no doubt effect the balance.

[LostDoggy]

Brisbane are desperate for key forwards. Would we consider trading a Redpath?

[jeemak]

Adelaide's first round pick and an experienced player for Aish, and a swap of second rounders would easily get it done for Adelaide.

We'd have to offer up our first round pick and a quality experienced player to land Aish as a minimum to beat that Adelaide deal. We could angle for a swap of second round picks but our additional player would have to carry some currency to get it done.

[Doc26]

Adelaide's first round pick and an experienced player for Aish, and a swap of second rounders would easily get it done for Adelaide.

We'd have to offer up our first round pick and a quality experienced player to land Aish as a minimum to beat that Adelaide deal. We could angle for a swap of second round picks but our additional player would have to carry some currency to get it done.

Yes you may be right Jeemak although depending on where Adelaide finish, let's say 11th or 12th at the lower end, would they be comfortable trading away a possible pick 7 or 8 with an experienced player and say 2nd swaps for him ? This starts to be a heavier price for them giving up such an early pick in a shallow draft. What goes down with Dangerfield may also effect things.

[jeemak]

Brisbane need experience so you'd think that a reasonable player as well as their first round pick would be enough for Adelaide to get themselves the deal, and with securing a high first round pick for Dangerfield (one pick after their original first round) you'd think that would be enough for them to get it going.

If Adelaide take a long term view and take their Dangerfield compensation they may not want to trade much like we didn't when we had pick five and six in the 2012 draft. Aish was a pick seven, and is injured now after showing a fair bit in his first year or so meaning it will depend on how much they've valued his development since being in the system.

The swap of the second round picks in addition to the above gives Brisbane two single digit first round picks and a pick in the mid twenties. Precisely what they need. Adelaide end up with a single digit pick and a pick around the twenty mark.

Not a bad outcome for both parties in my opinion.

[Go_Dogs]

Aish is a yes from me.

[soupman]

So when negotiating for a future pick, a big part of the consideration will be the assessment of the other teams prospects for the following year.
I'm looking forward to list managers trying to convince other clubs how terrible they are going to be next year to justify the value they are putting on the pick ie. Collingwood telling GWS that they won't improve at all next year so GWS accept what will hopefully be a top 10 pick for Treloar.


Brisbane are desperate for key forwards. Would we consider trading a Redpath?

I'd be very reluctant to, if only because he is one of only two key forwards we have on our entire list.

[bulldogtragic]

Baseless media rumours on Jay Schulz and Menzel from Carlton being up for grabs/moved on.

[LostDoggy]

Apparently Schulz likely to go to Freo. Don't think either would hold strong interest for us. We're well stocked for mid-sized forwards.

[bulldogtragic]

Players from other clubs should be lining up to play in this team.

[GVGjr]

Players from other clubs should be lining up to play in this team.

Agreed but the bigger clubs are more attractive. We just dont draw a big enough crowd to really entice the big name players.

[azabob]

Sam Darley played a good game today. Will be interesting to see how he goes in the next few weeks. If he continues to use the ball well, and do the right things by his teammates, does he stay on the list?

[azabob]

I am starting to be of the view we don't need to go after a big name free agent.

We are seeing natural development in all our players, Tom Campbell is stepping up in the ruck, Redpath and Boyd look likely Key Forward types, I guess the only position we are short in is perhaps is a key defender.

[Go_Dogs]

I am starting to be of the view we don't need to go after a big name free agent.

We are seeing natural development in all our players, Tom Campbell is stepping up in the ruck, Redpath and Boyd look likely Key Forward types, I guess the only position we are short in is perhaps is a key defender.

I'm increasingly of the view minimal list changes are required and we may be best served by continuing to draft and develop.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm increasingly of the view minimal list changes are required and we may be best served by continuing to draft and develop.

I think you're about dead right. I'm for 4 changes.

A free agent ruckman in Luey, Kruezer or Bellchambers.
Three picks at the draft, inclusive of any bigger trade.

So that means finding 4 to go. I'd cut/trade Fuller, Ayce (potential RL), Minson. Leaves one more, perhaps Smith could go to the RL or a retirement.

Goodes and Pearce potentially moved to do it.

[Rocco Jones]

Wow, going to be crazy hard to delist players. I am with the last few posters and go with the minimal changes approach. It will set a really positive vibe, which the group deserves.

Ayce Cord and Fuller are the only two obvious ones I can think of. Will to be the third, really seems to be the only guy not buying into Beveridge's ethos.

[bulldogtragic]

Wow, going to be crazy hard to delist players. I am with the last few posters and go with the minimal changes approach. It will set a really positive vibe, which the group deserves.

Ayce Cord and Fuller are the only two obvious ones I can think of. Will to be the third, really seems to be the only guy not buying into Beveridge's ethos.

Yep. I can't see any players asking for a trade. So we need, I think, to have a retirement and/or Clay jump to rookie list to supplement what you outline.

[Dry Rot]

Apparently Schulz likely to go to Freo.

Schultz jumping ship or pushed?

[azabob]

Schultz jumping ship or pushed?

Wants more coin than that's being offered.

[GVGjr]

Wants more coin than that's being offered.

Port want to pinch Dixon from the Suns so they have to make changes.

[comrade]

I don't think Ayce is an auto delist at all. Versatile, good runner for his size, suits our system.

[The Doctor]

I don't think Ayce is an auto delist at all.

He's also not on the auto retain list

[Mantis]

Wants more coin than that's being offered.

Only being offered a 1 year deal by Port too.

On this years form that's about right.

[Mantis]

I don't think Ayce is an auto delist at all. Versatile, good runner for his size, suits our system.

Why?

He showed when given an extended run that he isn't a consistent performer at AFL level.. At some point we have to cut our losses.

[azabob]

Only being offered a 1 year deal by Port too.

On this years form that's about right.

I was surprised at his poor kicking today. I thought he was a longer kick.

[comrade]

Why?

He showed when given an extended run that he isn't a consistent performer at AFL level.. At some point we have to cut our losses.

Certainly not a #1 ruck at AFL level, but as a back up, almost in a tall utility role - pinch hitting in the ruck, moving forward and back where necessary, filling in gaps in our zone - I can see him having value as depth/injury cover at worst.

[hujsh]

Certainly not a #1 ruck at AFL level, but as a back up, almost in a tall utility role - pinch hitting in the ruck, moving forward and back where necessary, filling in gaps in our zone - I can see him having value as depth/injury cover at worst.
We're struggling to find 3 players to delist from the list. I think Ayce has to go as does Minson and presumably Fuller so we can even draft 3 players. If we can pay him his full wage I'd be happy for Smith to go onto the rookie list for year just for the space.

We've got Campbell and Roughy as two potential number one ruckmen. Add someone on the rookie list as a longer term prospect (like Campbell was initially) and there's not much need for Ayce. Unless he's that RL cover.

[Happy Days]

Certainly not a #1 ruck at AFL level, but as a back up, almost in a tall utility role - pinch hitting in the ruck, moving forward and back where necessary, filling in gaps in our zone - I can see him having value as depth/injury cover at worst.

I think every other AFL club has at least one better ruckman than Ayce, and most have 2. In fact, a lot have 3, and a couple (Freo, GC, I'm sure others) have 4!

Ayce had (has?) so much potential, and even played an honest to god pretty okay game against the Saints this year, but it's time to move on.

[Rocco Jones]

I normally agree with everything you say re: footy comrade but I'm jumping off your bandwagon with this one mate!

I do see your thinking but the first question I ask myself when in doubt about delisting a player is if they were a VFL listed player, would we be keen? I say no.

Going further, what does he offer us?

In terms of first ruck duties, he is simply not up to it. No real discussion needed there.

In terms of second ruck duties...I think we could do so much better. Here is his competition within the club:
Roughy- a better ruck and much better outside of the ruck
T Boyd- I see him at least as close to equal in the ruck (I think Tom is more competitive) and Tom already offers way more up forward
Redpath- again at least close to him in terms of ruck quality, Redders is more competitive again. Redpath clearly ahead as a forward

To play even two of Roughy, T Boyd and Redpath, one needs to be a 2nd ruck. I think they give us 3 options in the 2nd ruck role. Enough flexibility.

I see a 2nd ruck as similar to an all rounder role in cricket. Ayce's ruck ability is akin to a number 8/9 bat and his forward ability like a part time bowler. That doesn't get you a game (for the analogy's sake, please ignore the whole Ashes series going on atm).

[LostDoggy]

I reckon our ideal ruck combo in a perfect world is Roughy 80% ruck, 20% forward, with Toyd 20% ruck, 80% forward. Campbell is the back up to Roughy and Jack is the back up to Toyd. On current form, the back ups are pushing to become the main men.

All of these guys have their prime years as ruck/kpp ahead of them.

Essentially, Will and Ayce are on the list as back ups to back ups. Given the quality we have elsewhere I don't think that is enough for them to hold a spot.

[Sedat]

So that means finding 4 to go. I'd cut/trade Fuller, Ayce (potential RL), Minson. Leaves one more,
I think Talia is a good discussion topic in terms of his worth on the list. I'm just not sure he has the footy smarts to cement a long-term AFL career as a key defender - he loses too many one-on-ones, loses separation with his direct opponent too often and also loses the ball in flight too easily. He's a decent back-up option, which we've desperately needed in the last month with all of Hamling, Roberts and Roughy all out for extended periods, so his departure would leave us very skinny down back in terms of key depth. We'd get a pretty high draft pick and a long list of suitors for him you would imagine - somewhere in the pick 10-20 region if he was on the market IMO.

[LostDoggy]

I've heard that Talia is keen to play with his brother at the Crows. They would head the list of clubs we should be able to work out a good deal with. He is still young and they are not hugely blessed with talls, so should definitely be tradeable for something pretty decent (maybe even Talia and, say, a 2nd or 3rd round pick in exchange for a 1st round pick - this year or next).

My only slight concern is that Dale Morris has always covered us when we have been light on for key defenders. He is likely to retire by the end of next year, so the extra defensive tall may be useful.

[Hotdog60]

I went over the list and gee it was hard to cull 3 players. Fuller was my first thought although the sentimentalist in me would like to give him a fair crack without injury.
Talia was next and if we couldn't get a trade offer a rookie spot.
Then would Moz go around again or M.Boyd. Both playing good football still. Then there's Minson and A.Cordy.
Ode to be a list manager.

[Mantis]

I think Talia is a good discussion topic in terms of his worth on the list. I'm just not sure he has the footy smarts to cement a long-term AFL career as a key defender - he loses too many one-on-ones, loses separation with his direct opponent too often and also loses the ball in flight too easily. He's a decent back-up option, which we've desperately needed in the last month with all of Hamling, Roberts and Roughy all out for extended periods, so his departure would leave us very skinny down back in terms of key depth. We'd get a pretty high draft pick and a long list of suitors for him you would imagine - somewhere in the pick 10-20 region if he was on the market IMO.

I can't see that happening... He is probably our 4th best key defender as it currently sits... I think we might get offered an early 3rd round pick, similiar to what we got for Liam Jones.

[Sedat]

I can't see that happening... He is probably our 4th best key defender as it currently sits... I think we might get offered an early 3rd round pick, similiar to what we got for Liam Jones.
From memory Ted Richards got Essendon pick 19 from Sydney and he was spending more time in the twos when he was traded out.

[soupman]

At this stage I see the list changes as follows:
Out:
Fuller, Cordy - delisted
Minson - traded

I would be happy to see Talia traded. I think he has too many flaws to be a best 25 player when everyone is fit, although I don't think he'll attract anything better than a mid 20's pick.

With Cordy and Minson leaving we are left with just one of the rucks we started the year with, but Roughead replaces one now that we don't consider him a pure key defender anymore, and I'd look at rookie listing someone to give a bit more depth.

If Talia went I'd want to get another key defender in, simply because the durability of Roberts, Roughead, Hamling, Morris and Cordy is questionable.

I wouldn't be promoting any rookies, and would only keep Smith and maybe Kelly.

[azabob]

Well summed up soupaman. I wonder how interested Swans would be in Minson and Talia as a package? Not sure of there total value.

[jeemak]

Ayce has taken a significant step forward this year, though whether that's enough for us all to remain patient with him is another matter.

He's simply not strong enough through his legs and core and that hurts him in every contest he competes within. I have little doubt he is more skilful than most rucks in the game, but if he can't compete strength wise then he's irrelevant.

The question for the club will be will he ever catch up strength wise? My view it's unlikely he will, and we will probably have to put a one year extension in front of him to remain on our list as a back up, as his VFL form has been the best of any of our rucks throughout the year.

[Twodogs]

That's right about Ayce's core strength. The club would have to be really confident he'd get stronger quickly.

[stefoid]

Ayce has taken a significant step forward this year, though whether that's enough for us all to remain patient with him is another matter.

He's simply not strong enough through his legs and core and that hurts him in every contest he competes within. I have little doubt he is more skilful than most rucks in the game, but if he can't compete strength wise then he's irrelevant.

The question for the club will be will he ever catch up strength wise? My view it's unlikely he will, and we will probably have to put a one year extension in front of him to remain on our list as a back up, as his VFL form has been the best of any of our rucks throughout the year.

trade him to essendon ;)

[Doc26]

trade him to essendon ;)

Unless for some strange reason he would be interested ala Cooney, we couldn't be so heartless by acting with such cruelty, no player is deserving of such a plight :p

[Twodogs]

But the floor is so soft.

[BulldogBelle]

But the floor is so soft.

So l have heard.:D

[Doggy]

Not sure if I heard correctly, a reporter on 7 news said we were right into Stefan Martin from Brisbane

[GVGjr]

Not sure if I heard correctly, a reporter on 7 news said we were right into Stefan Martin from Brisbane

Yes they did say that.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes they did say that.

Not sold on the rumour, or just confirming the comment?

[comrade]

Would suit us but wish he was 3 years younger.

[GVGjr]

Not sold on the rumour, or just confirming the comment?

It would be a monumental effort to secure a player of Martins current standing. I don't doubt we might have some strong interest but turning the interest into a trade won't be easy.

We have been strongly linked to a few trade candidates and while Carlisle was strongly touted a few weeks back I believe it isn't something we would even remotely consider now.

We will no doubt be linked to some more players before the trade period officially starts.

[azabob]

If we trade players in, I assume we will have to also trade players out. Like most other posters I am struggling to identify 3 players to delist.

I wonder if Talia, Grant and Hunter are trade bait to a certain degree?

[Axe Man]

Barrett on the Footy Show also named us and Essendon (why would he want to go there) as being interested in Martin. Contracted for next year but wants to return to Melbourne for personal reasons.

[GVGjr]

Barrett on the Footy Show also named us and Essendon (why would he want to go there) as being interested in Martin. Contracted for next year but wants to return to Melbourne for personal reasons.

Interesting position. Martin would appear to be the type of ruckman the coach would most appreciate. He can also play in a couple of other spots.

[bulldogtragic]

It would be a monumental effort to secure a player of Martins current standing. I don't doubt we might have some strong interest but turning the interest into a trade won't be easy.

We have been strongly linked to a few trade candidates and while Carlisle was strongly touted a few weeks back I believe it isn't something we would even remotely consider now.

We will no doubt be linked to some more players before the trade period officially starts.

I give the Jon Butcher rumour 4 weeks to start. I guessed within a week last year so I'm pretty confident again.

[azabob]

Straight swap Martin for Grant?

[Twodogs]

Glass of water for BT please.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe Grant and Z.Cordy :)

[bornadog]

Straight swap Martin for Grant?

Wasn't Brisbane interested in Grant last year.

[Sedat]

Wasn't Brisbane interested in Grant last year.
2 years ago, when he was last out of contract

[Dry Rot]

Grant is a free agent IIRC.

[jeemak]

There's a good reason why we've stockpiled similar players these past few years, and it has everything to do with understanding that if we're going to bring in quality for needs we're going to have to offer up something decent in return.

Our situation has become somewhat precarious with Smith and Libba suffering four knees between them these past two years, however.

I've previously (prior to this season's form) suggested Dahl is a potential quality player to trade out, largely because of his deficiencies remaining the same as they have since he's started playing for us, but now his strengths well and truly out value them and he's off limits. He keeps making me look stupid week after week.

For me that leaves Stevens, Grant, Darley, HC, Prudden and Jong as candidates for using as potential bait. Perhaps even Picken could as well due to his versatility as a tagger and accumulator.

Tough times when we're talking about these guys being on the table potentially. It's not the worst problem to have.

[LostDoggy]

If we were to trade for a Stefan Martin (which I'm not sure we need to), I don't think we should be offering up a Jarrad Grant, or anyone else in our best 22.

The great thing about our depth is that the 30-40th best player on our list is a player who could be playing regular seniors at a weaker club. The best way to strengthen our list is to trade out 2, or even 3, of these players in exchange for a player who meets specific best 22 needs.

Importantly, winners in this can be the players we trade out, who can go to a place of greater opportunity.

Just as importantly, by following this path we end up having more draft places available to top up on our youth.

In the case of Martin, Brisbane are already desperately short of talls, especially KPPs. If we were to successfully trade with them, I'd reckon an offer of say any 2 of A.Cordy, Minson & Talia (maybe even all 3) would be a winning result for all parties.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very good player, but is Martin worth the cost both in terms of a trade and $$?

Do we need him? We seem to have adequate ruck cover with Campbell/Roughy and one of Redpath/Boyd. Assuming Minson/Cordy are both done.

If we get Martin, I can't see us being able to play all of Campbell/Roughy/Boyd. For mine, Campbell should be our #1 ruck, Roughy plays FB/2nd ruck and Boyd FF/possible ruck relief. Not sure Martin fits into the equation and neither of the other three should be playing VFL in 2016.

Much rather spend our money on something we actually need: a gun mid.

[Happy Days]

Martin is a ������ and we should get him.

I'd say straight swap for Talia but that won't happen. Martin and their second for our first? Sure.

EDIT - the weird question mark things are meant to be the gun emoji; do the deal Dogs.

[jeemak]

With Cordy's excellent form in the VFL this year, coupled with indifferent senior output does he get the back up ruck spot in the hope that he gets stronger?

Campbell's ruck form in the seniors is progressing well, but he hasn't actually laid a decent tap in that time consistently and the big question mark over him at the moment is whether his tap work and smarts around the ground can stay ahead of Cordy's potential to gain strength.

Roughead's ruck form takes the cake for the most overrated output of any player on our list this year, aside from Jarrad Grant's output before he got dropped early on (since coming back in he's been really good).

Perhaps to get the quality of someone like Martin onto our list, we'll have to dish off one of either Campbell or Roughead.

Why would Minson be attractive for Brisbane as a sweetener for Martin when he has one year left?

[LostDoggy]

If Brisbane are having to let go a 28YO ruckman, getting a 30YO as part of a package to partially cover his loss isn't that ridiculous. As a back up ruckman to hold in case Leuenberger needs a break, Lions could get 2 years out of Minson.

Whilst Campbell or Roughead could be offered, I think Talia or A.Cordy would impact our list less and would be sufficient for a club that is desperate for KPP stock. Over the next 5-10 years, for a club like Brisbane these guys represent great value relative to a ruckman who, whilst quality, is 29 next year.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty sure Brisbane would have seen Minson not being able to cover the ground .
Didn't realise Martin was 28!

[chef]

A 2nd rounder should get it done. He's going to be 29 years old come the start of next season.

[Twodogs]

If Martin is 29 how come he isn't a free agent? I must admit I haven't paid him that much attention but the Lions are his second team? Has he not spent long enough at one club to qualify as a Free Agent.

[lemmon]

If Martin is 29 how come he isn't a free agent? I must admit I haven't paid him that much attention but the Lions are his second team? Has he not spent long enough at one club to qualify as a Free Agent.

Was at the Demons for most of his career, hasn't been at the Lions long enough to qualify

[chef]

Was at the Demons for most of his career, hasn't been at the Lions long enough to qualify

Is he also still under contract?

[Doc26]

Granted Martin has turned himself into a fine and versatile player in the modern game but I'm not sold on us picking up a 29 year old ruckman particularly when we still have Campbell and Roughead who are at least on par with where Stefan was at at a similar stage of his career. That said if we were tempted maybe a 3 way deal with Adelaide sending Talia to be with his brother and Adelaide offering up their 2nd round, ~ pick 30, to Brisbane.

[LostDoggy]

It should also be remembered we traded Ben Hudson to Brisbane as a 32 YO and he played for another 2 years and 25 games.

A slowish 30 YO ruckman is tradeable, we just won't get a lot.

For a lot of teams, having a reliable, experienced back up to their main man, even for 1-2 years, is worth something.

Minson is still competent. He played 9 games this year and some of them were very good (remember his game against Mumford).

[Axe Man]

Grant is a free agent IIRC.

Correct. Unrestricted free agent so has no trade value.

[Axe Man]

Is he also still under contract?

As I posted earlier in the thread:


Barrett on the Footy Show also named us and Essendon (why would he want to go there) as being interested in Martin. Contracted for next year but wants to return to Melbourne for personal reasons.

[Jeanette54]

Can I put my hand up to say that this thread makes me feel fairly uncomfortable.

Sure discuss players from other clubs who are/maybe available, but I see no gain in suggesting currently listed players as trades.

It must be very disheartening to give it your best shot on the weekend and find yourself listed as trade bait on Monday.

I may be old fashioned but I think that both the club and our players deserve our loyalty. Some of favourite memories of the past were provided Bulldog by players who were not necessarily the stars of their day.

[LostDoggy]

Luenburger could easily have already agreed to a deal with another club by now.

More than likely would have stayed if he knew Martin wanted out, but could both possibly be out the door come seasons end? If thats's the case all of a sudden Minson's name becomes more valuable to them.

Martin will be 29, but is at the peak of his powers and will be for the next 3-4 years. Is Durable and does great work around the grounds.

You get the feeling he is exactly the type of Ruckmen Bevo loves. Isn't too concerned with hitouts, but following up and getting around the ground is crucial.

[bornadog]

Robbie Tarrant has signed a new deal, so off the table.

[GVGjr]

If Martin is 29 how come he isn't a free agent? I must admit I haven't paid him that much attention but the Lions are his second team? Has he not spent long enough at one club to qualify as a Free Agent.

He has a contract but wants to return to Melbourne.

[GVGjr]

A 2nd rounder should get it done. He's going to be 29 years old come the start of next season.

Essentially that is about the correct value. It could be packaged a different way given Brisbane problems in keeping players.

[GVGjr]

Can I put my hand up to say that this thread makes me feel fairly uncomfortable.

Sure discuss players from other clubs who are/maybe available, but I see no gain in suggesting currently listed players as trades.

It must be very disheartening to give it your best shot on the weekend and find yourself listed as trade bait on Monday.

I may be old fashioned but I think that both the club and our players deserve our loyalty. Some of favourite memories of the past were provided Bulldog by players who were not necessarily the stars of their day.

I'm not that keen to discuss our players being traded either unless someone puts their hand up specifically for a trade. Discussions around trading potential drafts pick etc I'm more than okay with.

[LostDoggy]

I don't see why people are uncomfortable discussing potentially tradeable players.

We know at least 3 players need to leave our list every year. Surely trading these guys and giving them another shot is preferable to delisting.

Great Bulldogs like Daniel Cross, Adam Cooney, Leon Cameron and even Doug Hawkins have been traded in the best interests of Club and player, this should in no way diminish their achievements whilst at the club.

[chef]

Its more discussing them while of season is still alive. I dont like it personally.

[Twodogs]

I see the point but I'm sure a lot of players are sounding out new destinations that could suit their football career better. Don't forget that's what it is for these guys-their job. Their first loyalty has to be what's best for their career and not so much what's best for the club they play for now.

Look at Callan Ward, no one really begrudged him taking the Godfather deal that GWS offered. We would have loved him to stay (and would love him back as unlikely as it may be) and it might have been better for the club but job opportunities come along once in a lifetime. He had to take it.

So it's a bit different these days than 20 or 30 years ago when most players bought into the club culture strongly. Nowadays clubs are more employers than the staunch traditional clubs we grew up with.

That's my take anyway.

[Twodogs]

Its more discussing them while of season is still alive. I dont like it personally.

What about for a player like Minson? He appears not to have a place in Bevo's plans. Surely it's better we trade him to a club that will play him in the seniors than have him see out his contract playing for Footscray.

Of course me having said that means that Bevo will bring Minson in in the last round and he will prove to be the last piece of the premiership puzzle.

[GVGjr]

What about for a player like Minson? He appears not to have a place in Bevo's plans. Surely it's better we trade him to a club that will play him in the seniors than have him see out his contract playing for Footscray.

Of course me having said that means that Bevo will bring Minson in in the last round and he will prove to be the last piece of the premiership puzzle.

He has a contract though and could certainly be back into the senior side. At best we are speculating that he wants to leave and that another club would be interested. He might just be thinking he will retire with the club at the end of next season no matter what.

[Remi Moses]

Footy is a different landscape now than in past years.
After all we are looking at winning a flag, and as we keep being told this is a business .

[Remi Moses]

What about for a player like Minson? He appears not to have a place in Bevo's plans. Surely it's better we trade him to a club that will play him in the seniors than have him see out his contract playing for Footscray.

Of course me having said that means that Bevo will bring Minson in in the last round and he will prove to be the last piece of the premiership puzzle.
I think he's gone at seasons end .

[Dry Rot]

But if we get Martin, we lose Campbell at the end of next season*. Are you happy to do this?



*I'd walk if I was him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But if we get Martin, we lose Campbell at the end of next season*. Are you happy to do this?



*I'd walk if I was him.

No.

I like Martin but he isn't crucial for us.

[Dry Rot]

Would we think about a bid on any of the Swans, GWS or lions academy players?

[LostDoggy]

As our ascent to the Top 4 has happened a lot quicker than most of us imagined, the trade/Draft period takes a slightly different shape.

When you look at a modern Top 4 team recruiting to keep itself around the top 4 for an extended period, I reckon the model is Hawthorn.

Several years ago, they could see that several facets of their team were going to be elite for several years, they had a great forward line, midfield and outside mids.

Where they were thin was in Ruckmen and tall defenders, so over several drafts they strategically identified the best credentialed candidate in this area and pounced, usually going for an established player from a struggling club.

With the Rucks it was Hale from North and then McEvoy from StKilda.

With the tall defenders it was Gibson from North, Lake from Dogs, Spangher from WCE, then Frawley from Melbourne.

A lot of these guys were seemingly towards the ends of their career but the moves have often rejuvenated the player and have largely been successful. When you are in that Top 4 zone, a player that can hold down a position well even for a year or 2 is highly valuable.

Hawthorn got deals done because the players wanted to move to a club that could challenge for flags (in some cases they could've got more money elsewhere) and because it was in the interests of the struggling club to move on players with currency in order to get more youth into their lists.

We have built a young list that should give us a chance to play off in multiple Grand Finals over the coming 5-10 years.

We need to compliment this List very carefully. We need to trade out players who are not realistically going to be regular senior players, we need to make sure we bring in good kids every year and we need to pinpoint precisely what our needs are in regard to chasing established players.

I am interested in peoples thoughts.

What part of our List needs strengthening? What type of player do we need to be pinpointing this Trade period?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What part of our List needs strengthening? What type of player do we need to be pinpointing this Trade period?

Mids with pace and skill who in an ideal world can do it all - we're light on in this area - and possibly a key defender (we have options but Roughy and Roberts are injury prone).

I'd go hard for Dangerfield or Motlop. I've mentioned why previously for the former, but Motlop would be an awesome inclusion to our side too - especially if Libba can make a good return to footy and Stevens can keep improving. Motlop's pace and agility would be dynamite in our lineup, and he has the ability to kick goals too. He's underrated IMO - surely Geelong keep him, but I'd be going hard for him too.

[kruder]

Mids with pace and skill who in an ideal world can do it all - we're light on in this area - and possibly a key defender (we have options but Roughy and Roberts are injury prone).

I'd go hard for Dangerfield or Motlop. I've mentioned why previously for the former, but Motlop would be an awesome inclusion to our side too - especially if Libba can make a good return to footy and Stevens can keep improving. Motlop's pace and agility would be dynamite in our lineup, and he has the ability to kick goals too. He's underrated IMO - surely Geelong keep him, but I'd be going hard for him too.

I agree more than anything a dynamic midfielder while at the same time let Daly work his magic.

[Mantis]

I'd go hard for Dangerfield or Motlop. I've mentioned why previously for the former, but Motlop would be an awesome inclusion to our side too - especially if Libba can make a good return to footy and Stevens can keep improving. Motlop's pace and agility would be dynamite in our lineup, and he has the ability to kick goals too. He's underrated IMO - surely Geelong keep him, but I'd be going hard for him too.

Can we afford another high prized recruit?

Our salary cap is going to get tight in years to come with the list we are building.

[stefoid]

OK, I have to admit to being absolutely ignorant on Martin. Whats the deal? Is he the mythical decent key forward / backup ruckman, otherwise known as unicorns that Dalrymple was on about in his interview?

[bulldogtragic]

Carlton finishing bottom not only rewards them with pick 1, but free agency rules means they could get pick 2 if a juicy offer was not matched for a free agent. Their main free agent worth anything is Kruezer. My guess is a 4 year $500,000+ contract would effectively make the new Carlton coach with Steve Silvagni look at having picks 1 & 2 and access to young Silvagni as a father son. It would also free up extra space to throw serious cash at a Carlisle type trade. My spider senses tell me that Carlton would not match the offer, and could look to a mature ruck to fill the gap while they rebuild, or Steph Martin if they have a second rounder spare somehow. Imagine them with 3 young KPPs, Martin & Carlisle. That's the hope they need to sell to resell memberships.

So, would we offer 4 years at $500,000+ to Kruezer and look to allow Will and/or Ayce a trade?

[stefoid]

foot injury concerns?

[LostDoggy]

I agree more than anything a dynamic midfielder while at the same time let Daly work his magic.

I'm a little surprised that people are nominating the midfield as our area of need/weakness.

I might be in the minority, but I reckon for quality, depth, versatility and upside (youth), I wouldn't swap our midfield list with anyone, especially given Libba will effectively be a star recruit in that area next year anyway.

Of course, if a Dangerfield or a Motlop was available we'd be crazy not to make enquiries, I'm just not sure it's an area of specific need.

Then again, as Rocket used to say, you can never have too many midfielders.

[jeemak]

I'm a little surprised that people are nominating the midfield as our area of need/weakness.

I might be in the minority, but I reckon for quality, depth, versatility and upside (youth), I wouldn't swap our midfield list with anyone, especially given Libba will effectively be a star recruit in that area next year anyway.

Of course, if a Dangerfield or a Motlop was available we'd be crazy not to make enquiries, I'm just not sure it's an area of specific need.

Then again, as Rocket used to say, you can never have too many midfielders.

I think it's the Stephen Hill, Lewis Jetta circa 2012 GF type that people are looking for. We simply don't have one of those players that can get behind the defence with pace between half back and half forward as the next person out of a contest. Grant doing this type of thing to any great extent once or twice this year is all we have to hang our hats on at the moment, and on the wider and longer grounds these types of players help you cover a lot of ground with the ball in a single players hands cutting out the risk of a mid ground turnover.

We're lucky we play regularly at Docklands, which is a ground where the likes of Murphy, Biggs an JJ can gain a lot of ground running at defencive zones. On the big grounds you need players that can use open space wide and behind defencive structures.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure Dangerfield is that player? He's more of an inside player.

[jeemak]

Not sure Dangerfield is that player? He's more of an inside player.

He's a bit of both, and comes with a heavy price tag.

If we were to land a Dangerfield it would mean we'll have to kiss goodbye at least one player of significant calibre within one or two years as Boyd, Bont and Stringer will be commanding significant star portions of our cap, and we have a very solid second tier who will demand compensation for their efforts.

Continuing on this path of player development will see us under cap pressure very quickly.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah, I agree.

I'm not sure we are requiring any A-Listers given our stage of list development.

When I was quoting the Hawthon Ruckman/Key Defender example, it was more identifying role players we may need to fill specific needs (the type you get for $400-500k).

Of our midfield stocks, run and carry winger types probably are our weak link. I'm not uncomfortable with Grant and Macrae, and I think our game plan helps us out because JJ (particularly), Wood and Murph can get forward and provide the overlap run, but another genuine wide runner probably would be useful.

[jeemak]

I'm extremely concerned about Jackson's ability to tighten up his disposal, though when I have those thoughts I need to pull myself back and concede he's still extremely young and putting excellent numbers together and hope with added fitness he can rectify that issue.

Grant does his best work in close by hand with a little bit of outside work as a second link player. I don't see him changing to a clean and skilled outside player any time soon.

[comrade]

One player I'd be having a very close look at is Geelong's Kolodjashnij.

Out of contract at the end of the year and looked very comfortable against the Hawks forwards.

[azabob]

One player I'd be having a very close look at is Geelong's Kolodjashnij.

Out of contract at the end of the year and looked very comfortable against the Hawks forwards.

I wonder why he hasn't signed. Is he similar to Z.Cordy?

[comrade]

I wonder why he hasn't signed. Is he similar to Z.Cordy?

Both pretty athletic and similar size, height wise (193cm-194cm).

Kolo seems more suited to the bigger, one on one forwards.

Both will end up as genuine KP defenders.

[LostDoggy]

He is a really good player. Good runner for his type as well.

With Morris, Murphy and Boyd all getting on, quality athletic defenders would certainly strengthen our depth.

Terrific option to explore.

[jeemak]

He didn't seem to move like a 193cm footballer last night, much more mobile by the looks of things.

Strange that he hasn't signed.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if we are looking to top up on a couple of taller player if we would look to the likes of Mitch Brown or Jake Wilson from the VFL? Brown can play forward or back and Wilson is a defender.

[kruder]

One player I'd be having a very close look at is Geelong's Kolodjashnij.

Out of contract at the end of the year and looked very comfortable against the Hawks forwards.

Good choice indeed but I'd be staggered if he left Geelong. He was fantastic against us and as you say has continued on since.

[comrade]

Good choice indeed but I'd be staggered if he left Geelong. He was fantastic against us and as you say has continued on since.

Well, if you believe the rumours Geelong are in the box seat to get Danger, Henderson and Scott Selwood. Plenty of dough will be tied up in those 3, plus Motlop is asking for a packet.

If we dangle the right deal in front of him, we could be a chance.

[Ghost Dog]

Whatever happens in the final series, our ladder position at the end of this year will certainly help our bargaining situation.

[Ghost Dog]

Whatever happens in the final series, our ladder position at the end of this year will certainly help our bargaining situation. We really need a tall defender other than the current current options. Hope Fletch or Zaine step up.

[bulldogtragic]

Whatever happens in the final series, our ladder position at the end of this year will certainly help our bargaining situation.

Yep, hopefully some free agents are keen on winning. Also our first rounder becomes easier to play with. Pick 13-18 at this stage is in the range where a big trade or a downgrade for a good player is more realistic IMO. Every year is critical, but this off season period could be crucial to our sustained success at the elite level.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm not sure we need to be chasing much outside the group we have.

What Bevo has done is prove that the list has quality and depth. To build on that I would hope we look to keep adding young talent and utilising the trade to find opportunities for those who can't command regular games and looking for pick upgrades with those trades.

Having allowed players to show they can play, also makes it more likely that some will have interest to other clubs, where that may not have been the case previously.

We will need to be open minded when other clubs show interest and just look at options that suit where we are heading.

Most of all we need to allow Dalrymple to continue. His picks have been magnificent in the last 3 seasons.

[Ozza]

I'm not sure we need to be chasing much outside the group we have.

What Bevo has done is prove that the list has quality and depth. To build on that I would hope we look to keep adding young talent and utilising the trade to find opportunities for those who can't command regular games and looking for pick upgrades with those trades.

Having allowed players to show they can play, also makes it more likely that some will have interest to other clubs, where that may not have been the case previously.

We will need to be open minded when other clubs show interest and just look at options that suit where we are heading.

Most of all we need to allow Dalrymple to continue. His picks have been magnificent in the last 3 seasons.

I couldn't agree more. I am really worried about us getting involved in trading/bring outside players in. I don't want to upset what we have in place right now by bringing in any significant change. I feel sick at the thought of chasing Carlisle - who I think is just a player, has a potential ban hanging over his head (we already have Crameri to be concerned about losing) and would be coming out of an ordinary culture.

My only exception would be POSSIBLY in the ruck stocks. Even then, I'm really happy that we have found something in Campbell. I doubt Minson would or should play again - and Cordy is probably a similar story.

Stick to the draft & the rookie draft.

[azabob]

I also echo the thoughts of Bulldog Joe and the Doctor.

[Doc26]

I couldn't agree more. I am really worried about us getting involved in trading/bring outside players in. I don't want to upset what we have in place right now by bringing in any significant change. I feel sick at the thought of chasing Carlisle - who I think is just a player, has a potential ban hanging over his head (we already have Crameri to be concerned about losing) and would be coming out of an ordinary culture.

My only exception would be POSSIBLY in the ruck stocks. Even then, I'm really happy that we have found something in Campbell. I doubt Minson would or should play again - and Cordy is probably a similar story.

Stick to the draft & the rookie draft.

I don't feel that we need to be too black and white about it especially where elite level talent presents itself and I'm not including Carlisle in that.

I'd make an exception to look at it if Dangerfield (or another elite free agent) declared that he wanted to come to us.

We're going to start to look an attractive proposition pretty quick.

[LostDoggy]

If we were worried about bringing outside players in, we'd have no Crameri, Hamling, Roberts, Dickson, Biggs, Stevens, Boyd or Darley.

At the end of this year a handful of players will leave our list and a handful will enter.

Most of the additions will be kids, but 1 or 2 experienced, best 22 now types can only benefit us.

I have faith in our culture and our recruiters. The idea that an individual or 2 will come in and infect everything is fanciful for mine.

[Templeton31]

BBB - Bring Back Brian?

Anyone think this is a good idea?

I actually don't but here's the case for it being a good idea - sounds like he won't get another year at Hawks, someone to tackle the gorillas as mentioned in other threads, Bevo would've coached him at the Hawks so would know whats coming, feel good story (? maybe), cheap as chips, he won't need directions to find the Whitten Oval, grand final experience, my Dad will be able to yell "Brian" at the top of his voice and smash the seat in front of him once a game which will annoy the hell out of my Uncle Brian who will be sitting next to Dad..... umm can't think of any other reasons.

Seriously main reason would be tackle the gorillas while Roberts, Tallia, Hamling, Roughhead etc continue to mature. Anyone?

[Sedat]

BBB - Bring Back Brian?

Anyone think this is a good idea?

I actually don't but here's the case for it being a good idea - sounds like he won't get another year at Hawks, someone to tackle the gorillas as mentioned in other threads, Bevo would've coached him at the Hawks so would know whats coming, feel good story (? maybe), cheap as chips, he won't need directions to find the Whitten Oval, grand final experience, my Dad will be able to yell "Brian" at the top of his voice and smash the seat in front of him once a game which will annoy the hell out of my Uncle Brian who will be sitting next to Dad..... umm can't think of any other reasons.

Seriously main reason would be tackle the gorillas while Roberts, Tallia, Hamling, Roughhead etc continue to mature. Anyone?
No thanks to Briza. Let's get Spangher instead.....you know you want to :D

[bornadog]

No thanks to Briza. Let's get Spangher instead.....you know you want to :D
Noooooooooooooo

only you want to..:..

[Sedat]

Noooooooooooooo

only you want to..:..
He's the good luck charm of the AFL. Wherever he goes his team wins a flag ;)

[Twodogs]

He's the good luck charm of the AFL. Wherever he goes his team wins a flag ;)


Umm. He did spend a decade with us without a flag.

[chef]

Umm. He did spend a decade with us without a flag.

Spanga, not Lakey

[1eyedog]

Don't know about Bryza but one C. Ward would be bloody handy for where we are at now.

[Remi Moses]

Poor tonight and a classic Brian moment or two.
Looked a tad on the old side

[BulldogBelle]

Don't know about Bryza but one C. Ward would be bloody handy for where we are at now.

This sounds a much better idea.

[Hotdog60]

The only thing that worries me is that one of the rich clubs poach our recruitment staff.

[Smads57]

The only thing that worries me is that one of the rich clubs poach our recruitment staff.

This is easily my main concern.

I don't really have an opinion on who we should or shouldn't trade for. I also think we might be surprised with what we get anyway given Bevo will be involved to some degree and he has largely been not so predictable with how he sees a team line up.

[strebla]

This will be the first time he gets a say on our trades and picks so looking forward to it.

[LostDoggy]

It is human nature for us to throw up names of established players that we know well, but our recruiters have shown a canny ability to spend stuff all and find hidden gems in other lists.

Reading the various media and trade gossip, there are some desperate teams out there and some silly deals are going to go down. I would be perfectly comfortable with a couple more Biggs/Hamling/Dickson types, rather than blowing high draft picks on a Sherman/Djekurra/Akermanis type under the giddy thrall of the premiership window.

Gonna be a fun trade week though, can't wait to see what we come up with.
j

[bulldogtragic]

Kruezer and Henderson would be nice right now.

[Mantis]

Kruezer and Henderson would be nice right now.

Roughead and Roberts would too.

As would Libba and Picken in the middle.

[bulldogtragic]

Roughead and Roberts would too.

As would Libba and Picken in the middle.

Yes they would. The thread is on list management, ie bringing talent onto the list at years end.

[bulldogtragic]

Forget talk of a Talia trade. No way we get anything like a good pick if other clubs are watching today.

[LostDoggy]

KPDs in huge demand and he's young. Don't worry, we'll get decent offers for him.

[LostDoggy]

I think we should recruit Lee Harvey Oswald. That seems our best chance of stopping Kennedy.

[AndrewP6]

I think we should recruit Lee Harvey Oswald. That seems our best chance of stopping Kennedy.

Doesn't move as well as he used to :p

[LostDoggy]

Doesn't move as well as he used to :p

Fair point, maybe we'll need to arrange something between the CIA, Mafia and the Cubans...

[bulldogtragic]

I think we should recruit Lee Harvey Oswald. That seems our best chance of stopping Kennedy.

That's only part of it, it's at least a two man job. We need a second defender to come from the front, off the grassy knoll.

[LostDoggy]

FWIW just read that Terry Wallace on SEN this morning apparently said Dogs will make big play for Kruezer.

[SlimPickens]

FWIW just read that Terry Wallace on SEN this morning apparently said Dogs will make big play for Kruezer.

He said they "should", not they "will".

[Doc26]

FWIW just read that Terry Wallace on SEN this morning apparently said Dogs will make big play for Kruezer.


He said they "should", not they "will".

His quote in the HS today reads more than 'should':


Worryingly for the Blues, Kreuzer has put thoughts of a new deal at Ikon Park on ice, instead focusing on getting back to his best after two injury wrecked years.....

“That (contract situation) was a little concerning for me and I’ve heard a couple of little whispers that the Western Bulldogs are making a very strong play,” Wallace said on SEN.

“They need a No. 1 ruckman, they haven’t yet replaced Will Minson as the man to take the team forward.

“That doesn’t mean that (Tom) Campbell doesn’t stay at the club but this competition is showing that you need a top-line ruckman.”

Not sure how good his intel is or whether the quote of making a "very strong play" is specific to Kreuzer or more generally for a key ruckman. It certainly reads as a play for Kreuzer given the headline but then it wouldn't be the first time that the HS has taken poetic licence to suit an article.

[Mofra]

Not sure how good his intel is or whether the quote of making a "very strong play" is specific to Kreuzer or more generally for a key ruckman. It certainly reads as a play for Kreuzer given the headline but then it wouldn't be the first time that the HS has taken poetic licence to suit an article.
Carlton fans think three teams are making a play for Kreuzer (by rumour) - Bulldogs are one of them.
Some have suggested he'll either stay or go to Richmond with other teams an outside chance

[Templeton31]

Can we give Carlton Tutt and Jones again for Kreuzer? :D

[Twodogs]

Can we give Carlton Tutt and Jones again for Kreuzer? :D

Maybe we should offer to take them back in exchange for us getting Kruezer.

[Rocco Jones]

'Whispers' hey? Just make up whatever you want and say you heard 'whispers'.

[Remi Moses]

FWIW just read that Terry Wallace on SEN this morning apparently said Dogs will make big play for Kruezer.

There's a four year on the table from a club apparently .
Might be us

[bulldogtragic]

Carlton would be crazy not to let him go for pick 3. They can go for Martin or even Minson to stop gap a couple of years.

[Remi Moses]

Carlton would be crazy not to let him go for pick 3. They can go for Martin or even Minson to stop gap a couple of years.

This is their big chance to have a significant draft position .
My bet is the uproar of him leaving they'll crap their pants and re-sign him.
Funny thing is though by the time Carlton are decent Kruezer will be well retired .

[The Doctor]

Stevo saying we're into Kreuzer

[bulldogtragic]

Kruezer didn't confirm he'd stay at Carlton when asked today. The apparent offer 'out there' is according to Hutchy 4 years at $500,000 a year. That would net Carlton pick 3 in compo.

If. This is us. We could give Minson a free walk to Carlton for nada to free up salary space to cover Kruezers wage. They get Pick 3 with pick 2 and 20, access to Silvagni and PSD pick 1 (Carlisle) and Minson as a stop gap for no cost other than wage. Plus Hendo and Yarran compo. That's a win for them, and could be a win for us if he stays fit.

[GVGjr]

Kruezer would be an interesting and a risky acquisition. He of course is a huge talent but the ability of any team getting him playing regularly is of course the big question.

I think we would have to be an attractive club for him unless the Hawks or Tigers are more to his liking.

[bulldogtragic]

Kruezer would be an interesting and a risky acquisition. He of course is a huge talent but the ability of any team getting him playing regularly is of course the big question.

I think we would have to be an attractive club for him unless the Hawks or Tigers are more to his liking.

Surely first ruck is where he sees himself. I don't get Richmond being mentioned by some media, or more to the point, Richmond giving pick 28 to Mr Megan Gale. His number must be finished if they're after Kruezer at big bucks.

[LostDoggy]

The speculation I have heard is that 2 clubs have put similar offers to Kruezer's management. Both are 3-4 years and both are $500k-high $500's per year.

The 2 clubs are believed to be us and GWS.

If this is true, we would be likely to be the more attractive as we are Melboune based and don't have a Mumford on our list as competition for the 1st ruck.

As a restricted free agent, if Kruezer accepts one of these deals, and Carlton choose not to match it, the successful 'bidder' gets him without needing to offer anything in trade (Carlton get compensatory draft pick).

[bulldogtragic]

Imagine moving Cordy for Martin (as per the Qld club offering a big offer) and in effect Minson for Kruezer (for salary reasons above). That's a massive list improvement just there.

[bornadog]

Imagine moving Cordy for Martin (as per the Qld club offering a big offer) and in effect Minson for Kruezer (for salary reasons above). That's a massive list improvement just there.

I thought I read Martin is going to stay at Brisbane?

[bulldogtragic]

I thought I read Martin is going to stay at Brisbane?

Who knows. That club is on its knees about now, again, and like last year with us I've lent more than ever.... Saying you'll stay means very little in the AFL these days.

[LostDoggy]

My understanding is that Martin is pretty much certain to stay at Lions but Leuenberger will be leaving, no idea if we are a player but wouldn't surprise me.

[LostDoggy]

Carlton would be crazy not to let him go for pick 3. They can go for Martin or even Minson to stop gap a couple of years.

Aside from his playing abilities, a reason Carlton are loathe to let him go is because he is apparently a champion clubman, those around the club and the supporters just love him.

Although very quiet, he is seen, in a fractured club, as a real binding force and leader.

The more I hear about him (compared to Henderson and Carlisle) the more he appeals as a potential Dog.

[kruder]

Free agency was always going to work for us when we started to climb the ladder. Loving the clubs position atm, going for best available at the draft table and use free agency to address needs particularly talls.

[LostDoggy]

Free agency was always going to work for us when we started to climb the ladder. Loving the clubs position atm, going for best available at the draft table and use free agency to address needs particularly talls.

Absolutely.

The exciting thing about FA is that you don't have to give up picks or players in acquiring a FA. We can then trade out a player of lesser value to us for a draft pick and end up with extra draft pick/s. The way our list mangers are nailing their draft picks, it's scary to think where our list could be in a couple of years.

[Sedat]

I'm a big Kreuzer fan. He's like a younger and more talented version of the People's Beard in at the ruck contests, but who knows his way around the forward line as well. His durability is the major issue for me but if he is given a clean bill of health he would be a great addition to our list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm a big Kreuzer fan. He's like a younger and more talented version of the People's Beard in at the ruck contests, but who knows his way around the forward line as well. His durability is the major issue for me but if he is given a clean bill of health he would be a great addition to our list.

Exactly my thoughts.

I watched him live v Melbourne and one bit of play was amazing. Cripps had the ball and needed an 'out' about 80m from goal as he was being closed down. Kreuzer came running past at full pace like a genuine midfielder with speed, received the ball and ran into the F50 whilst burning off the opposition chasers to nail a seriously exciting goal.

I'd love him, but durability is a huge concern.

[Remi Moses]

Ditto for me . The best of the rucks available, but his injury issues are a concern.

[ratsmac]

Kreuzer had talent to burn but has been injured half his career. This worries me a lot. But on the other hand Higgins was injury prone and is going alright. New environment new lease of life (maybe)

[azabob]

How is Peter Wright tracking at the Gold Coast? Could he be an option or too expensive from a trade position to get across the line? Has the flexibility to ruck and play key forward. From memory though he might not be too keen on the ruck part!

So after all that maybe not an option?

[Go_Dogs]

The ruck is going to be the most interesting area for us in the off season. I look at our options and think a combination which includes either Roughead or Campbell as the number one ruck with perhaps Boyd providing the chop out is a solid enough combination to work with.

If we're going to be trading for an established ruck or chasing one through FA then we are presumably moving on at least one of our current rucks, perhaps sticking with Roughead as a defender and saying we don't have faith in Campbell getting to the desired level.

I look at Hawthorn who traded for McEvoy and wonder whether that was the best play for them. I don't want to see us making significant list changes or locking in large sums of money on blokes who may or may not be better than what we have and in most circumstances with what appears available on the FA market, coming with extensive injury history.

[The Doctor]

If we get Kreuzer I can see this being our 'Ottens' style coup.

Insert Kreuzer & Liberatore into our midfield that is as close to elite as you could get and make us a considerable force. We wouldn't see the likes of Natanui and Priddis run amok the way they did on Sunday.

The flow on effect would be Bont & Macrae playing a bit more outside and having more space to operate in & Roughead could be our 2nd ruck. It's a mouth watering prospect.

[Ozza]

I'd like to get Kreuzer into the side for this years finals if we could!

I think he is definitely the type of ruckman we are after...with Boyd playing full forward and 2nd ruck - that is a very good combination, with Roughy playing on the monster forwards/resting ruckman.

[LostDoggy]

Kruezer's reputation for being always injured is a bit exaggerated. He's 26, in his 8th season and has played 117 games, so averages 15 games per year and has only had 1 season where he played less than 12 games (3 seasons of 20 games+).

[Doc26]

Kruezer's reputation for being always injured is a bit exaggerated. He's 26, in his 8th season and has played 117 games, so averages 15 games per year and has only had 1 season where he played less than 12 games (3 seasons of 20 games+).

Of his 8 seasons so far 4 of these have ended with the tally (ACL effected years) 13, 12, (Foot effected years) 1 & 11 (likely +2 to come) so there is some reasonable concern there particularly with the recurrence of the foot injury earlier this season which ruined all of his 2014 season. He seems to have overcome his ACL rupture which halted his early progress.

There is buyer beware but assuming he passes our medical due dilligence he would be a very attractive proposition given his class and strong on-field leadership.

[stefoid]

Foot injuries.

Cant he annoucne he wants to come to us and sit out the next 3 games?

[ReLoad]

Foot injuries.

Cant he annoucne he wants to come to us and sit out the next 3 games?

Brendan Bolton will try hell or high water to keep him. He knows he has 2 years to see results, which they will not get by bottoming out. heck its taken us 3 years of bottoming out and we are still ahead of expectations.

They will not be letting go of guys like him unless they get something decent in return.

Im thinking one of Honeychurch/Hrovat which the blues need desperately.

[stefoid]

Brendan Bolton will try hell or high water to keep him. He knows he has 2 years to see results, which they will not get by bottoming out. heck its taken us 3 years of bottoming out and we are still ahead of expectations.

They will not be letting go of guys like him unless they get something decent in return.

Im thinking one of Honeychurch/Hrovat which the blues need desperately.


free agent - they get compo depending on the contract we offer.

[ReLoad]

free agent - they get compo depending on the contract we offer.

Restricted or unrestricted?

[LostDoggy]

Kruezer is RFA, we do not trade for him. If he comes here we give Carlton nothing.

Blues get compensation pick, most likely pick 3. For a rebuilding club, it is quite arguable that they would rather pick 3 than a 26YO.

[The Underdog]

Restricted or unrestricted?

Restricted, but they're pretty unlikely to match if the offer will net them a 2nd draft pick in the top 3 (free agency compo needs to be restructured)

[Sedat]

free agent - they get compo depending on the contract we offer.
Yep, pick 3 would be a pretty attractive carrot for Carlton and Silvagni to get stuck into the rebuild.

[ReLoad]

Can we afford to pay the amount needed to guarantee a pick 3? are we talking 600-700k a year for that kind of banding?

Either way that's going to squeeze someone out?

[Mofra]

Restricted, but they're pretty unlikely to match if the offer will net them a 2nd draft pick in the top 3 (free agency compo needs to be restructured)
Yep, fairy sure not team in the AFL has matched a rival offer made to a player on their list that is a RFA.
Carlton wouldn't stand in our way.

[Mantis]

Yep, fairy sure not team in the AFL has matched a rival offer made to a player on their list that is a RFA.
Carlton wouldn't stand in our way.

Especially after we gave them Jones & Tutt. ;)

[LostDoggy]

I think our offer is more in the range of mid to high 500's, but we have offered 4 years (which may be a risk).

I think we have room in our cap. We paid a buttload to Gryphon this year just to get us to the 93% minimum.

Not saying we should be splashing it around carelessly, just saying there is room.

[Sedat]

Can we afford to pay the amount needed to guarantee a pick 3? are we talking 600-700k a year for that kind of banding?

Either way that's going to squeeze someone out?
Minson would be on decent coin and has surely finished his tenure at the club. Irrespective, the salary cap will be increasing significantly in the next few seasons - you can put the house on the fact that once the $2.5bn press release announcement was made, the AFLPA (and player managers) were licking their chops.

[The Doctor]

Also have to take into account that if we only paid 93% of our cap we are entitled to spend the 7% we didn't use in the next season TPP. That gives us some financial firepower.

[Greystache]

Also have to take into account that if we only paid 93% of our cap we are entitled to spend the 7% we didn't use in the next season TPP. That gives us some financial firepower.

I'd like to see us bank $2-3mil of Boyd's contract next season. It'd take the heat out of his deal from a salary cap perspective for future years. If we're to make a FA I think we'd need to offload Minson.

[LostDoggy]

Minson would be on decent coin and has surely finished his tenure at the club. Irrespective, the salary cap will be increasing significantly in the next few seasons - you can put the house on the fact that once the $2.5bn press release announcement was made, the AFLPA (and player managers) were licking their chops.

That is going to work out so well for us, just when our gun crop are coming into their primes and requiring substantial increases, the cap will expand to make this possible with tough decisions minimised.

I agree re:Minson. The amazing thing with FA is we could end up trading a Minson and a Cordy to Carlton to top them up, get some lower draft picks and get Kruezer for nothing (other than his salary).

[Sedat]

Also have to take into account that if we only paid 93% of our cap we are entitled to spend the 7% we didn't use in the next season TPP. That gives us some financial firepower.
I didn't realise clubs could do this, thanks for clarifying.

[GVGjr]

Especially after we gave them Jones & Tutt. ;)

Funny you mention that a few Carlton supporters at work have cut up rough with me asking the question of what number he should wear with us.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Funny you mention that a few Carlton supporters at work have cut up rough with me asking the question of what number he should wear with us.

yeah they're not happy with the idea of him leaving!

[Mofra]

I'd like to see us bank $2-3mil of Boyd's contract next season. It'd take the heat out of his deal from a salary cap perspective for future years. If we're to make a FA I think we'd need to offload Minson.
We are by all account - but it's limited to 105% as my understanding

[LostDoggy]

The ability to go over 100% of TPP if previous years were under only recently came in, along with the ability to trade future picks (pretty much on the same day).

These changes should add spice to an already very active trade week.

[The Underdog]

yeah they're not happy with the idea of him leaving!

Sounds like it's all upside then

[bornadog]

From the HUN (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-wishlist-collingwood-gws-port-adelaide-geelong-adelaide-western-bulldogs-analysed/story-fnp04d70-1227499817284)


WESTERN BULLDOGS

What they need


THE Bulldogs must be careful as they approach the trade table this season.


While they have undoubtedly enjoyed a fantastic year, they must not get carried away when evaluating their list and target their premiership window too early.


In saying that, the Dogs would love to add a couple of talls to their team. A key position player would give Tom Boyd much needed support as he continues to develop, while a quality ruckman is a must.


The Dogs would take another blue-chip midfielder if he became available, but you can’t see them going out of their way to secure him.


Who is available?


THIS trade period looks one where a host of ruckmen will be available.


Matthew Leuenberger and Stefan Martin have both signalled their intentions to leave Brisbane, while former No. 1 draft pick Matthew Kreuzer is yet to re-sign at Carlton. They may face stiff competition for Gold Coast’s Zac Smith, but he is also worth a punt.


As for key position players, the Dogs are unlikely to target Jake Carlisle. However, that’s not to say they won’t try their luck for a key forward.


Could they lure Adelaide’s Tom Lynch amid a host of Victorian offers? It might also be worth trying an ambitious play for Sydney’s Sam Reid.


Otherwise, GWS could be a gold mine for the Dogs. Fringe players like Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman and Adam Tomlinson would be well worth the effort.

[Axe Man]

I don't agree with much of that article. I think key defence and ruck are greater areas of need than a key forward. Boyd and Redpath should both continue to develop and we seem reluctant to play them both in the same side anyway.

Tom Lynch is a good player for Adelaide but with Stringer and Crameri I'm not sure why we would be interested in adding another third tall type.

Of course we would take a quality midfielder if the opportunity presented itself - what team wouldn't?

Plowman or Tomlinson would certainly be interesting propositions if available.

[Axe Man]

If we don't land a Carlisle or Henderson would we consider bolstering our key defensive position stocks with Michael Hartley?

At 22 years of age and 198cm and 102kg he's the right size to play on the forward gorillas.

Has anybody seen him play at Coburg?

The Ex-Pie who could be thrown an AFL lifeline (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-27/expies-rookie-michael-hartley-could-be-thrown-afl-lifeline)


WITH KEY defenders in high demand and short supply, former Collingwood rookie Michael Hartley could get a second chance in the AFL later this year.

Hartley spent 2012-13 on Collingwood's rookie list, but after playing in four NAB Cup games at the end of his first pre-season with the Magpies two serious shoulder injuries limited him to five VFL games over the next two years.

Since being delisted by Collingwood, Hartley has put his injury problems behind him and produced two outstanding seasons with Coburg in the VFL.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't agree with much of that article. I think key defence and ruck are greater areas of need than a key forward. Boyd and Redpath should both continue to develop and we seem reluctant to play them both in the same side anyway.

Tom Lynch is a good player for Adelaide but with Stringer and Crameri I'm not sure why we would be interested in adding another third tall type.

Of course we would take a quality midfielder if the opportunity presented itself - what team wouldn't?

Plowman or Tomlinson would certainly be interesting propositions if available.

Agree. Key defender, ruck and mids are order of the day. A FA ruck should be easy enough. Those GWS boys would be great and then it's trying to get a KPD. Lynch and Reid are weird names to through up.

[Greystache]

Agree. Key defender, ruck and mids are order of the day. A FA ruck should be easy enough. Those GWS boys would be great and then it's trying to get a KPD. Lynch and Reid are weird names to through up.

It's just the same old lazy rubbish they throw out every year for the Bulldogs. They need a key forward.

Lynch is kind of tall and plays forward, he'll do. Maybe some other fringe tall too, Reid had a Dad or something didn't he. Then throw in a couple of tallish young players at an expansion club that have struggled to play seniors and you have an article. This despite our midsized forwards being the best in the league, and Reid showing less than Redpath who we're already playing.

[Twodogs]

We get a recruit called Tom Liberatore next year. He's a gun.

[LostDoggy]

Heard talk today that Jason McCartney may be heading to GWS. Likely replacement is StKilda's Chris Pelchen.

Anyone else heard this?

[Bulldog4life]

Heard talk today that Jason McCartney may be heading to GWS. Likely replacement is StKilda's Chris Pelchen.

Anyone else heard this?

I have choked on my beer

[bulldogtragic]

Heard talk today that Jason McCartney may be heading to GWS. Likely replacement is StKilda's Chris Pelchen.

Anyone else heard this?

Source please, I refuse to consider this without one. I rate Macca and detest Pelchen.

[LostDoggy]

See Late Mail Live on AFL website. Entry at 4.44pm.

Apparently, Pelchen was at WO this morning, meeting with Dalrymple.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd rather have no one than Pelchan. No one at all.

[bornadog]

I'd rather have no one than Pelchan. No one at all.

From here (https://www.facebook.com/AFLSeasonAndOffSeasonNews/posts/512577925583107)


Former Hawthorn and St Kilda list manager Chris Pelchen was spotted at Whitten Oval on Friday morning deep in conversation with Bulldogs recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple.With speculation mounting that Dogs list manager Jason McCartney could be headed to GWS to replace Stephen Silvagni, is Pelchen in the frame to replace McCartney and inherit one of the AFL's most exciting lists?
- AFL Website

[bulldogtragic]

From here (https://www.facebook.com/AFLSeasonAndOffSeasonNews/posts/512577925583107)

I've been more complete major trades than Pelchan. I volunteer myself to the club for the role.

Oh, and F*** GWS and GCS.

[hujsh]

*!*!*!*!ing GWS. *!*!*!*!ing AFL. *!*!*!*!ing world.

[Greystache]

I'm just glad the AFL can provide enough money to its plastic franchises to poach staff from its core clubs with over inflated salaries. They may have to fine a few more white players to balance the books :rolleyes:

[GVGjr]

Pelchen polarizes many footy people but I've never quite understood why outside of his arrogant persona.
I'd obviously prefer we kept J-Mac but we could no doubt attract some good people and to be honest I think Pelchen would see himself in a more senior role than being a list manager again.

Does Pelchen being at the WO talking to Dalrymple really mean he is coming to the club? I think this is less likely than likely.
I think Pelchen writes some draft and list management articles from time to time and might be doing some research from our market leaders :)

[Twodogs]

So we have provided the coach, captain, our *!*!*!*!ing captain, our recruiting gun.

CANT YOU BASTARDS LET US FINISH A PLAN? For Gods sake

[Twodogs]

So we have provided the coach, captain, our *!*!*!*!ing captain, our recruiting gun.

CANT YOU BASTARDS LET US FINISH A PLAN? For Gods sake

[Twodogs]

Hopefully it's just piss and wind. I couldn't see him leaving this job half done and leaving this close to trade period.

What happens to all the information he's gathered about the next Joel Hamling we've never heard of but is currently sitting on another clubs list waiting for his chance? This guy is probably our outside jet with foot skills we need next year.

What happens to all the work he's quietly put into the gun recruit that announces he wants to play with us next year in the middle of trade week?
He walks

[Twodogs]

Hopefully it's just piss and wind. I couldn't see him leaving this job half done and leaving this close to trade period.

What happens to all the information he's gathered about the next Joel Hamling we've never heard of but is currently sitting on another clubs list waiting for his chance? This guy is probably our outside jet with foot skills we need next year.

What happens to all the work he's quietly put into the gun recruit that announces he wants to play with us next year in the middle of trade week?

[LostDoggy]

I don't think there's any way he'd leave before the current trade/draft period.

[hujsh]

I'm just glad the AFL can provide enough money to its plastic franchises to poach staff from its core clubs with over inflated salaries.
Right with you! 100% all the way!

They may have to fine a few more white players to balance the books :rolleyes:
Aaaand you've lost me. (I'm sure you're shattered about that though)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd be more angry about the fact that an expansion club is again stealing our personnel, than J-Mac leaving. It's beyond ridiculous if this actually goes through from that perspective.

Taking that aside, 'admin' type figures typically change clubs all the time.

I wouldn't be upset if we got Pelchen - has done good jobs at both Hawthorn and St. Kilda, excusing his persona.

[The Doctor]

we're not into Kreuzer according to LB on the WB twitter account.

[bornadog]

we're not into Kreuzer according to LB on the WB twitter account.

He didn't really say that. If you listen to his press conference he said hasn't thought about it and will discuss every role at end of season. He also said there will be very few changes at end of season and in fact he wants to keep all players but knows we have to delist 3

[The Doctor]

He didn't really say that. If you listen to his press conference he said hasn't thought about it and will discuss every role at end of season. He also said there will be very few changes at end of season and in fact he wants to keep all players but knows we have to delist 3

this is the twitter comment

LB: The name Matthew Kreuzer hasn't even come up around here, our powder is very dry in that area.

[bornadog]

this is the twitter comment

LB: The name Matthew Kreuzer hasn't even come up around here, our powder is very dry in that area.

Yes that is quoted from the press conference.

[GVGjr]

this is the twitter comment

LB: The name Matthew Kreuzer hasn't even come up around here, our powder is very dry in that area.

Yep, I'd be surprised if Kreuzer ended up with with us.