We still love you Clay.

[bulldogtragic]

See you and Libba back soon enough.

[1eyedog]

Oh no!

[whythelongface]

Do you think after 3 knees that he will come back? The only positive can be that he is still so young.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you think after 3 knees that he will come back? The only positive can be that he is still so young.

Worth a shot like Williams IMO. A limited contract, but full support of the club. See by end of next year.

[1eyedog]

Seeems like its made of glass. Who has come back from three knees? Schwartz?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I just feel crushed to see the poor kid go through this again. I'm sure the club will stick by him, but I'd admire him no less if he decided he did not want to go through it all again.
It's just terrible his body just doesn't seem able to give him a fair chance.
All best wishes to this terrific young man.

[chef]

Maybe Lars is worth a shot this time

[bornadog]

I felt sick in the stomach watching him go down twice

[F'scary]

I was wondering the whole time if he came back too early. I kinda thought, and no expert here for sure, that this year would be a slow process for him that would result in playing some games in the VFL towards the end of the season. Was so surprised to see him back so early.

Fingers crossed for Clay Smith. Get well as soon as you can Clay. This time spend 2016 working your way back into the VFL slowly then look to a good preseason for 2017.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Sad news.

Have to question the decision to bring him back on after the first incident, but seems either way he'd have done it again unfortunately.

I hope we explore going with LARS - might be his last shot.

[ratsmac]

I am absolutely gutted for the kid. He can't take a trick.
Lars has to be the go for him this time around because the traditional doesn't seem to be working for him.

All the best for a speedy recovery Clay.

[craigsahibee]

Sad news.

Have to question the decision to bring him back on after the first incident, but seems either way he'd have done it again unfortunately.

I hope we explore going with LARS - might be his last shot.

Yep. Could have happened getting out of the car or with his first kick at the next training session. Horrible luck. Like others have said, I would love him back but can totally understand if he doesn't want to go through it all again.

[firstdogonthemoon]

Heartbreaking to see.

[Twodogs]

Gutted. I don't know what to say.

[woodwood10]

Just heartbroken for Clay.

[LostDoggy]

From where I was at the Footscray End you only just see him on the screen , we though at first it was Honeychurch until Smithy rolled over and grabbed his knee and we all went Oh sheet NNoooo , he had a tough time recovering from the last one , all the rehab makes a player feel like he is on the outside looking in
Tough times ahead , we all wish Clay the very best for his recovery , both mental and physical

[AndrewP6]

Just devastated for him.

[LostDoggy]

The awful horrible moment frozen in time

Robert Cianflone/Getty Images AsiaPacific

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/AFL+Rd+6+Western+Bulldogs+v+St+Kilda+HBC2eA4NpE9x.jpg

[Ghost Dog]

Clay, if anyone can do it, you can. Its just a new beginning. Stay positive and cede nullis. We are all behind you.

[G-Mo77]

Just gutted when it happened. I couldn't even enjoy the 2nd quarter because of the injury. All I could think about was Clay during the half.

I'll be the guy to ask. Should we have subbed him when he went off the first time? They can do tests on the sideline but it's obviously not 100%. Judging by the way he went over so quickly it was weakened by the first jar. I don't know, with his history I would have went with the cotton wool approach. It's nice to say that in hindsight but I was really concerned when I saw him running out again.

[Remi Moses]

Shit news :mad:!!
All the best for Clay, and just wonder if Lars is worth the risk ?
Seems the traditional knee reco isn't working

[hujsh]

I hate that I just thought this.

Who's going to be the third knee reco?

[Go_Dogs]

Dear Clay,

Words cannot describe the disappointment I feel, I honestly can't comprehend what you're feeling, what's going through your head at the moment.

A few weekends ago, I was lucky enough to see your AFL return. One moment summarised your importance to this team. You won a free kick, perhaps a 50/50 one, but you went back to your mark, you settled, you kicked a goal.

Every single player on the field ran to you.

The celebrations made me feel good. I momentarily forgot my life's hardships, losses, even the moments of joy - I was in the moment.

A sensation welled over my body, one that overwhelms you. I had a few of the oppositions supporters next to me, along with a mate who shares my passion, who I was fortunate enough to become mates with since I upheaved my life from Adelaide (and without telling a lie, despite separation from my very close family, a move I made with my mind fixed on this football Club). We celebrated. We exchanged a glance that symbolised we knew what it meant. What it meant for US.

I watched your teammates, the joy, but mostly the sense of team, of doing anything and everything for your mates, which I was lucky enough to feel as an 'elite' high school athlete. Despite the obvious, and numerous, step ups from 'elite' school level, I smile knowingly at the mate-ship. To be a part of something, especially something which captures both the minds of those involved, and those who become a part of it for every reason, it's special. Take it from me, 13 years on, I hold these moments close. Your life will no doubt have better, more important moments - after all, it's footy - but to a bloke like me, they stay close. I suspect they will for you, too.

Your injury tonight, it hurt me. But I feel like I know you - you're tenacious, persistent, but most of all, a believer.

I believe in you.

We all do.

If you need anything, whatever and/or however trivial it sounds, ask, sing out. We are behind you, every step, every shit session or day, and of course the glorious times - I'm asking a lot, and while I otherwise consider it a rhetorical sentiment - but be there for us. Endure. Continue to believe. Because WE ALL DO.

This Club is on the verge of something special. Despite the media, and even without the hindsight of today, it WILL take time. We are building something that is going to make our respective waits, our torments, disappointments, fade to nothing. We're all in this together - everything else to one side - Clay, we need you. You're a piece of this fabric, this glue, this collective experience of continuously facing adversity head on.

You will face it. You will give me another of infinite reasons to love this Club till the day I move on for this world, premierships in tow.

Men of Mayhem.

Yet men of significantly more.

You will succeed Clay. You will taste the ultimate AFL success here.

I wish you all the best. We all do.

Believe with us Clay.

[SonofScray]

I cried.

Just heartbroken for Clay and wishing him all the best and some luck. The game was secondary to me from that point, I feel it might have been for the rest of the boys too.

[always right]

Just gutted when it happened. I couldn't even enjoy the 2nd quarter because of the injury. All I could think about was Clay during the half.

I'll be the guy to ask. Should we have subbed him when he went off the first time? They can do tests on the sideline but it's obviously not 100%. Judging by the way he went over so quickly it was weakened by the first jar. I don't know, with his history I would have went with the cotton wool approach. It's nice to say that in hindsight but I was really concerned when I saw him running out again.

Has the club make any statement on this? Dr Peter Larkins claimed on the radio we would be.
I think questions need to be asked of our medical staff despite the fact they performed tests on Smith before clearing him to go back on. According to Larkins our medical staff knew the knee was compromised when Smith went back on so in my view the coaches needed to take a conservative approach and substitute him and then have scans on Monday. Why would you take any chance with a bloke three games back from a knee reco?

[EasternWest]

This is hard to take.

A guy who embodies everything I want to see in my players, probably cut down before we ever get to see him at his peak.

I haven't felt this down about a footy situation in ages.

[G-Mo77]

Has the club make any statement on this? Dr Peter Larkins claimed on the radio we would be.
I think questions need to be asked of our medical staff despite the fact they performed tests on Smith before clearing him to go back on. According to Larkins our medical staff knew the knee was compromised when Smith went back on so in my view the coaches needed to take a conservative approach and substitute him and then have scans on Monday. Why would you take any chance with a bloke three games back from a knee reco?

The people around us had a brief chat at half time about it and everyone agreed that he should have been subbed first time around and the medical staff really needed to answer some questions. You just don't take that risk with a history like that. If we lose the game because of fewer rotations so be it, at least Clay would probably have some work to do and be able to play again this season.

The game we lost hurt like hell but the fact that a guy like Clay's season and maybe even career could be over is just devastating.

[Sedat]

Pretty sure Malceski has had 3 knee recos and is currently running around with a LARS reco.

Having gone through an ACL reconstruction myself, the thing that surprises be about all 3 of Clay's recos is that he has come back well inside the standard 12 months. He was back in full training and playing about 8 months in the first time and it collapsed 2 games in. And he was in full training and playing about 10 months in this time, with his knee lasting only a handful of games again. There is a medical school of thought out there that the graft needs a good 12 months to properly attach itself to the knee joint in order to adequately cope with the rigours of twisting and turning.

[LostDoggy]

Pretty sure Malceski has had 3 knee recos and is currently running around with a LARS reco.

Having gone through an ACL reconstruction myself, the thing that surprises be about all 3 of Clay's recos is that he has come back well inside the standard 12 months. He was back in full training and playing about 8 months in the first time and it collapsed 2 games in. And he was in full training and playing about 10 months in this time, with his knee lasting only a handful of games again. There is a medical school of thought out there that the graft needs a good 12 months to properly attach itself to the knee joint in order to adequately cope with the rigours of twisting and turning.

12 months was what I was told with mine. I was concerned when he was named earlier in the season. Flip side though is it could have happened anywhere.

I feel just awful for the guy.

[PedroArvy]

Well its a tragedy to be sure. I hate to sound cruel, but the nature of these injuries suggests to me that Clay doesn't have the knees for AFL footy. That was a fairly standard sort of jump yesterday, it didn't look out of place from things most players do. And his other ACL came about from a similar amount of pressure. I don't think Clay has the body for AFL.

[Maddog37]

Well its a tragedy to be sure. I hate to sound cruel, but the nature of these injuries suggests to me that Clay doesn't have the knees for AFL footy. That was a fairly standard sort of jump yesterday, it didn't look out of place from things most players do. And his other ACL came about from a similar amount of pressure. I don't think Clay has the body for AFL.

Whilst I agree with you, I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him that!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Seems to be some suggestion that Riewoldt said something to/about Clay, hence Stringer and co's reaction. If there's any truth to this, I hope it comes out in the open so that Riewoldt is publicly disgraced.

[craigsahibee]

Seems to be some suggestion that Riewoldt said something to/about Clay, hence Stringer and co's reaction. If there's any truth to this, I hope it comes out in the open so that Riewoldt is publicly disgraced.

Nick Riewoldt is all "CLARSE"

[Mantis]

Reported this morning that Clay did his knee again during the first incident and as he still had a full range of movements he asked to go back on.

The first incident happened right in front of me and I beg the question how much influence did the 2 players around him (Murf + 1 other) have on the incident? The reason I ask is that as Clay marked the ball his team-mates told him to stop as they could see nothing was on downfield. I think he stopped more suddenly then he needed to due to his momentum and in doing so his knee buckled.. If his team-mates hadn't had told him to stop I wonder if the end result would be the same?

[Sedat]

Reported this morning that Clay did his knee again during the first incident and as he still had a full range of movements he asked to go back on.
I don't want to cast aspersions on our medical staff, but once an ACL is torn you lose all your twisting and turning ranges of motion. Straight line running and sprinting, jumping and other movements are fine, but once you change direction suddenly, you will fall down in a heap.

[Mofra]

The first incident happened right in front of me and I beg the question how much influence did the 2 players around him (Murf + 1 other) have on the incident? The reason I ask is that as Clay marked the ball his team-mates told him to stop as they could see nothing was on downfield. I think he stopped more suddenly then he needed to due to his momentum and in doing so his knee buckled.. If his team-mates hadn't had told him to stop I wonder if the end result would be the same?
Moot point perhaps - it's a movement he would have mimicked on the football field a numbers of times in coming games so if he lasted 1, 3, 10 more games it still would have occurred.

Really gutted for the guy - I hope we give him another chance.

[Mantis]

I don't want to cast aspersions on our medical staff, but once an ACL is torn you lose all your twisting and turning ranges of motion. Straight line running and sprinting, jumping and other movements are fine, but once you change direction suddenly, you will fall down in a heap.

It was the graft that went so I'm not sure if its the same??.. When he returned to the boundary after the initial inspection he did some testing along the boundary line and seemed fine.. Testing included pushing off each leg, twisting, etc..

Medical staff knew he needed further surgery, but I guess why Clay felt he was still able to contribute he wanted to get back out there as he knew this was his last game for a fair while.

[dadsgirl16]

Poor bugger...its his birthday today.. REALLY hope he makes it back

[Sedat]

It was the graft that went so I'm not sure if its the same??.. When he returned to the boundary after the initial inspection he did some testing along the boundary line and seemed fine.. Testing included pushing off each leg, twisting, etc..

Medical staff knew he needed further surgery, but I guess why Clay felt he was still able to contribute he wanted to get back out there as he knew this was his last game for a fair while.
The graft is essentially the replacement ACL. I mentioned this in the club statement thread, but strong quads and VMO's will protect the knee and allow some minimal range of motion to twisting and turning. But as soon as there is a quick movement made in a twisting or turning motion when you are bearing weight on the injured knee in question, you will fall in a heap.

It sounds like Clay was desperate to try and contribute for the team on the day knowing that he was out of commission for another extended period, and our medicos gave him the go-ahead to do so on the understanding that no further damage could be done. If that is what happened, it shows Clay to be a pretty special person.

[LostDoggy]

I read that medical report and found it concerning. Gutsy by the guy but it sounds like a risky situation no matter how much they are saying it wasn't.

He ruptured the graft, so he had no ACL, but going back on the park was very little risk of doing more damage? Not sure that seems realistic, if the ACL is gone then the range of movement required for AFL football would be severely compromised and the possibility for other ligament and meniscus damage surely heightened.

I mentioned when he was first picked that I was concerned it was too early, I think this was a problem, he shouldn't have come back to AFL until mid season and probably wouldn't have if not for Libba and Wallis injuries. I was told the graft is known to be fully settled at 12 months.
I love the club and love the guy and I'm no medico, I have had one myself but there is probably much I don't understand.

[SonofScray]

Still feeling really flat about this injury. It's just cruel. I read the club statement and just felt ill knowing that the price he has paid for giving the fans his absolute best has been too high. Hard as nails, deserves better and has shown himself to be a Bulldog through and through.

[josie]

I cried.

Just heartbroken for Clay and wishing him all the best and some luck. The game was secondary to me from that point, I feel it might have been for the rest of the boys too.

I had similar reaction and thoughts ....

[LostDoggy]

I am trying to convince the missus to let me take the year off and start a "Let's Get Clay Through Rehab" Cheer Squad. We could park outside the doctor's office, sit beside the pool, hold up banners at training, etc. just urging him to have a third crack at it.

[always right]

I questioned the decision for Smith to be allowed back on the ground but I've now come to the view that if the player's association are satisfied with the club's response, then so am I. Their recent form suggests that if there was anything untoward they would be screaming blue murder.

[SonofScray]

I questioned the decision for Smith to be allowed back on the ground but I've now come to the view that if the player's association are satisfied with the club's response, then so am I. Their recent form suggests that if there was anything untoward they would be screaming blue murder.

Agree. It happens in my field a lot, you make decisions on evidence based practice, consumer feedback, risk assessment and measure it against things like choice, duty of care, dignity of risk etc. When something goes awry, people outside that process struggle with it because they only see the outcome, not the whole process. It ends up failing "the herald sun" test.

[always right]

Agree. It happens in my field a lot, you make decisions on evidence based practice, consumer feedback, risk assessment and measure it against things like choice, duty of care, dignity of risk etc. When something goes awry, people outside that process struggle with it because they only see the outcome, not the whole process. It ends up failing "the herald sun" test.

To be fair this is more Caro Wilson territory. Sniffing controversy is her specialty.

[SlimPickens]

I don't want to cast aspersions on our medical staff, but once an ACL is torn you lose all your twisting and turning ranges of motion. Straight line running and sprinting, jumping and other movements are fine, but once you change direction suddenly, you will fall down in a heap.

Agree to an extent but I think you'll find that you don't lose rotation through the knee with an ACL tear. The rotation actually become excessive and this leads to the instability, which saw Clays knee buckle when on the lead.

[bornadog]

He is hoping to be back by mid year.

[Sedat]

He is hoping to be back by mid year.
I hope we take the extremely conservative path - he came back 9 months after the first reco and re-did his knee 2nd game back, and then he re-did his knee 3rd game back after the next reco with an 11 month break. Would almost be tempted to ice him this season and get him cherry ripe for 2017 - maybe give him some time in the coaches box and help him out with some off-field duties. The reality is if he does the knee one more time his playing career at the highest level is effectively over.

[azabob]

Not a bad idea Sedat. Regardless of what the "science"'says surely there is no harm letting him sit 2016 out? I guess the only harm will be to the opposition players in 2017.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Would be a hard sell to Clay.

[azabob]

Would be a hard sell to Clay.

Totally agree. But surely he could see the logic behind it? What are your thoughts?

[bornadog]

Totally agree. But surely he could see the logic behind it? What are your thoughts?
He is a competitive beast and is itching to get back.

[Sedat]

Would be a hard sell to Clay.
Very. But the consequences of one more serious knee injury are far worse for Clay.

[LostDoggy]

One the one hand, I want us to give him every possible opportunity but, on the other, if he has had a full 12 months+ and the knee is fully recovered, you've got to let him have a rip. Some guys just have dicky knees and, no matter how much time you give them, they're at risk.

If he's fully recovered, taken all the precautions, done all the tests, and we've got the bulk of a season in front of us, he's got to play for mine.

Either way, if/when he gets back to the senior team, I'd hate to be the opposition that day.

[Bulldog4life]

Very. But the consequences of one more serious knee injury are far worse for Clay.

You make a good point Sedat although I notice Menzell of Geelong after 4 knee reco's played at the end of last year instead of waiting for this year.

[bulldogtragic]

When I saw this thread get bounced my gut sunk into my arse with fear for Clay. Thank god it's just convo and not an injury...

I'd like to think VFL around the AFL bye and work him up progressively to fitness and hopefully strong form.

[jeemak]

I don't see him playing for us again if he doesn't at least prove he is capable of some longevity at VFL level this year. Follow the science and bring him back when it says he is ready and let him prove to himself and us he is good to go.

If he can do that and get a one year deal at the close of the year then that's a fantastic result for him, considering where he's coming back from.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I don't see him playing for us again if he doesn't at least prove he is capable of some longevity at VFL level this year. Follow the science and bring him back when it says he is ready and let him prove to himself and us he is good to go.

If he can do that and get a one year deal at the close of the year then that's a fantastic result for him, considering where he's coming back from.

Cruel but fair.

[Ghost Dog]

We currently have the depth to cover Clay, and give him time to load up his knee slowly. Give it the time it deserves.

[1eyedog]

I hope we take the extremely conservative path - he came back 9 months after the first reco and re-did his knee 2nd game back, and then he re-did his knee 3rd game back after the next reco with an 11 month break. Would almost be tempted to ice him this season and get him cherry ripe for 2017 - maybe give him some time in the coaches box and help him out with some off-field duties. The reality is if he does the knee one more time his playing career at the highest level is effectively over.

The only issue with this is his time out of the game. Malthouse made some interesting comments about Marty Clark this week in reference to the hiatus facing the Essendon players. He said that Clark's decision to go home for a year effectively ended his AFL career and that a year out of the game may well end a few careers at Essendon.

Clay's played no football for two years now approaching his third. I'm not sure he has the luxury of holding off on missing nearly 4 years of match footy.

[jeemak]

We currently have the depth to cover Clay, and give him time to load up his knee slowly. Give it the time it deserves.

If we're working towards the pointy end then we don't have the depth to cover Clay being on the list without contributing now nor in seasons to come.

He's developed as a footballer and given his injury history isn't likely to become a significantly better player than he has shown already. Moving from lower ladder to mid ladder positions like we did this season is one thing, but genuinely being in the hunt takes another level of competitiveness that doesn't allow stagnation on your list or allowances for mature players who can't contribute because of injury, or recover from injury over a four year period.

Many around here don't really rate Norf of the last two or so years, but the reality of their performances is they've made two preliminary finals and won four finals along the way in doing so. Does anyone really think they have the depth to carry a player like Clay when he has had multiple knee reconstructions? Would we get so far ahead of ourselves that we think through carrying players we'll replicate the performances of Norf over the next two years?

I'd hope not.

Being realistic about Clay's situation isn't cruel. He's likely a footballer who understands his situation and our team's situation better than we do.

[Ghost Dog]

Question this argument. On one hand you are talking 'pointy end of season'. Do you mean plural? Because in the next sentence you refer to 'seasons to come'. I think this is being pessimistic for the sake of it. A lot depends on the next 6 months of recovery, ( not to mention our injury list in 6 months time ) so let's wait and see. We have great midfield depth at present. If we can handle Libba out last year and make such dramatic improvement, we will be fine without Clay for this season, if our current players stay healthy.

[jeemak]

Question this argument. On one hand you are talking 'pointy end of season'. Do you mean plural? Because in the next sentence you refer to 'seasons to come'. I think this is being pessimistic for the sake of it. A lot depends on the next 6 months of recovery, ( not to mention our injury list in 6 months time ) so let's wait and see. We have great midfield depth at present. If we can handle Libba out last year and make such dramatic improvement, we will be fine without Clay for this season, if our current players stay healthy.

I'm referring to the pointy end as our team being around in the last two weeks of the finals which should be our goal after last year. I don't think we have the depth to carry anyone in the process, Clay included. It's not a given our overall talent profile in the middle, back or forward lines will take us further than what we achieved last year.

Yes we improved without Liberatore and Smith in 2015, but we also disappointed in our one final last year and we have a long way to go.

Call it pessimism or whatever, but the Norf example I used is apt.

[Ghost Dog]

If we're working towards the pointy end then we don't have the depth to cover Clay being on the list without contributing now nor in seasons to come.

It's our goal to make the pointy end every single year. We had the depth to cover Libba last season. We have a lot more options than 2015, Libba is also looking playable, so even to the layman like me, it doesn't really make sense to be talking about cutting Smith, this early in the season anyway. Stringer, Bont, Luke, Caleb, Adcock, Libba, Wallis, Honeychurch, Hrovat, and so on.

[jeemak]

It's our goal to make the pointy end every single year. We had the depth to cover Libba last season. We have a lot more options than 2015, Libba is also looking playable, so even to the layman like me, it doesn't really make sense, this early in the season anyway.

Interpret it any way you wish to interpret it.

BTW, we didn't have the depth to cover Liberatore last year, we just improved irrespective of him not playing and got bundled out with just a bit better than a whimper of a performance. We also don't have the depth to carry Clay this year or next if we want to figure in the last two weeks of the finals and improve on our most recent finals performance.

There's no pessimism in what I'm saying. The competition is more concentrated the higher you climb the ladder, we tried last year and failed and carrying injured players thinking we're going to improve naturally is a sure path to failure.

[Ghost Dog]

Interpret it any way you wish to interpret it.

BTW, we didn't have the depth to cover Liberatore last year, we just improved irrespective of him not playing and got bundled out with just a bit better than a whimper of a performance. We also don't have the depth to carry Clay this year or next if we want to figure in the last two weeks of the finals and improve on our most recent finals performance.

There's no pessimism in what I'm saying. The competition is more concentrated the higher you climb the ladder, we tried last year and failed and carrying injured players thinking we're going to improve naturally is a sure path to failure.

He's aiming to come back in 6 months, so he says.

[Cyberdoggie]

The only issue with this is his time out of the game. Malthouse made some interesting comments about Marty Clark this week in reference to the hiatus facing the Essendon players. He said that Clark's decision to go home for a year effectively ended his AFL career and that a year out of the game may well end a few careers at Essendon.

Clay's played no football for two years now approaching his third. I'm not sure he has the luxury of holding off on missing nearly 4 years of match footy.

An interesting point but Clark is an Irishman still learning the game fundamentals and plays a very different role.
Smith is an animal that just follows his instinct like a pitbull. Every time Clay has come back he pretty much starred at vfl level and showed that he had lost nothing, I think he'll be ok and that we should just give him a taste at the pointy end to satisfy him mentally. If he goes the whole year without playing a game I think that would hurt his confidence.

Does Mick Malthouse have a hidden agenda though? he does want to get paid a good sum to look after the Essendon dopers for a year.

[soupman]

I agree that list spots are valuable which means you cannot carry a non-performer indefinitely, especially if they have never shown glimpses of being able to perform at the level (Cordy). However you can afford to have about 3-5 players in the long term/speculative range ie. we currently have Hamilton, Prudden and Smith as players who are not in our best 35 on the main list.

If Smith does suffer further setbacks I think we could safely move him to the rookie list if we wanted to give him another opportunity.

[Twodogs]

An interesting point but Clark is an Irishman still learning the game fundamentals and plays a very different role.
Smith is an animal that just follows his instinct like a pitbull. Every time Clay has come back he pretty much starred at vfl level and showed that he had lost nothing, I think he'll be ok and that we should just give him a taste at the pointy end to satisfy him mentally. If he goes the whole year without playing a game I think that would hurt his confidence.

Does Mick Malthouse have a hidden agenda though? he does want to get paid a good sum to look after the Essendon dopers for a year.


He's probably looking at establishing a group of players not far off AFL level to stay fit just in case they get a chance to play. You just never know when your chance will come will be the selling point although we know that all the list spots are filled by December.

[Ghost Dog]

An interesting point but Clark is an Irishman still learning the game fundamentals and plays a very different role.
Smith is an animal that just follows his instinct like a pitbull. Every time Clay has come back he pretty much starred at vfl level and showed that he had lost nothing, I think he'll be ok and that we should just give him a taste at the pointy end to satisfy him mentally. If he goes the whole year without playing a game I think that would hurt his confidence.

Does Mick Malthouse have a hidden agenda though? he does want to get paid a good sum to look after the Essendon dopers for a year.

I don't think so. I met Mick once in the CBD, and he seemed really down to earth, quite the opposite to his media personality. I was quite surprised.

[bornadog]

http://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs640x640%2Fsh0.08%2Fe35%2F12328480_955843574469795_6857 65543_n.jpg%3Fig_cache_key%3DMTE4NjY1MDk5ODE0NDQ0NTM2OQ%253D %253D.2&width=810

[Guido]

I hope we take the extremely conservative path - he came back 9 months after the first reco and re-did his knee 2nd game back, and then he re-did his knee 3rd game back after the next reco with an 11 month break. Would almost be tempted to ice him this season and get him cherry ripe for 2017 - maybe give him some time in the coaches box and help him out with some off-field duties. The reality is if he does the knee one more time his playing career at the highest level is effectively over.
Agree 100%.

Posters have been torn to shreds in the past for suggesting that some players have come back too early from ACL injuries (because, you know, it's only through the benefit of hindsight that we could possibly have known a 29 year old 198cm tall Luke Darcy partaking in full competitive drills less than 8 months after his ACL op wasn't a great idea), but there is some scientific theory behind holding players back for an extra 6 months.


http://www.sciencealert.com/the-prognosis-for-acl-injuries

"Research conducted by sports physician and sports injury researcher Dr. John Orchard reports that a player is almost ten times more likely to reinjure their ACL in the first 12 months after the initial injury. After his third knee surgery Schwarz returned to football after 18 months of rehabilitation. He won his clubs best and fairest award in 1999 and went on play many more years of football, retiring in 2002."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4205204/

"The incidence of a second injury to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) within the first 12 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport in a young, active population has been reported to be 15 times greater than a previously uninjured cohort.

The overall incidence rate of a second ACL injury within 24 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport was nearly 6 times greater"


Note: I'm pretty sure that the latter figure includes all of the first 12 month injuries, therefore - I believe - injuries exclusively between the 12 -24 month time frame would be significantly below that "6 times greater" figure. The incidence in the 18-24 month period would be significantly lower again. Happy to be corrected on that, but even if I'm wrong, 15 times vs 6 times more likely to re-injure is still significant in itself.




Playing or not playing 10-12 games in 2016 will not define his career. Another catastrophic injury will. Cost/benefit and all that - to me the answer is pretty clear. Are playing those 10-12 2016 games worth adding, say, 10%-20%-30% chance to likelihood of re-injury (and effectively ending his career)?

2016 doesn't have to be a "lost' season - concentrating on making himself as elite an athlete as possible in 2016 (work with Craig Motram / other elite long distance runners to improve his endurance day on day, work with sprint experts to improve his explosiveness and 5/20 metre times, pretty much a year of exclusive fitness coaching that the rest of the team won't have access to/time to invest in), getting taught by a master tactician during coaches box stints as Sedat mentioned, these are not useless or wasted goals/pursuits/achievements.

Then he starts competitive footy again in 2017, having given his body the absolute best chance possible, and if it's not meant to be (another injury or it turns out to have been too long out of the game), then its not meant to be. But rolling the dice again, coming back this year after only 12-13 months, with that kind of history of re-occurrence, to me would be borderline idiotic.

[LostDoggy]

Great post Guido. Hard to argue with that logic.

[Ghost Dog]

Love the pic BAD.
Players are still part of a system, even when injured. It's not like it's unexpected in such a high contact sport. Bob Murphy had a reco in 2006, which put him out for a year. Clay is a good player. He's not a lineballer. Absolutely a gun and the club is doing the right thing by backing in the player and the medical staff, who seem confident he can get it right after this third mishap.

[Mofra]

I guess the other argument in favour of giving him extra time is the type of guy he is - there doesn't seem any way possible to hold him back at training, always goes at 100%. Surely that has to be factored in when plotting his return pathway.

[Remi Moses]

Question this argument. On one hand you are talking 'pointy end of season'. Do you mean plural? Because in the next sentence you refer to 'seasons to come'. I think this is being pessimistic for the sake of it. A lot depends on the next 6 months of recovery, ( not to mention our injury list in 6 months time ) so let's wait and see. We have great midfield depth at present. If we can handle Libba out last year and make such dramatic improvement, we will be fine without Clay for this season, if our current players stay healthy.
If he comes back it's more than likely he won't comeback anywhere near the same player he was. I hope he gets there, but the club need to do what's in its best interests at seasons end .

[Ghost Dog]

If he comes back it's more than likely he won't comeback anywhere near the same player he was. I hope he gets there, but the club need to do what's in its best interests at seasons end .

Sure, at the season's end. They would have cut him last year if they weren't confident he could come back.

[jeemak]

Sure, at the season's end. They would have cut him last year if they weren't confident he could come back.

He had a contract for this year and the club would have looked incredibly bad if it had cut him. If he was not contracted he'd likely be playing as a rookie or elsewhere.

[1eyedog]

Agree 100%.

Posters have been torn to shreds in the past for suggesting that some players have come back too early from ACL injuries (because, you know, it's only through the benefit of hindsight that we could possibly have known a 29 year old 198cm tall Luke Darcy partaking in full competitive drills less than 8 months after his ACL op wasn't a great idea), but there is some scientific theory behind holding players back for an extra 6 months.


http://www.sciencealert.com/the-prognosis-for-acl-injuries

"Research conducted by sports physician and sports injury researcher Dr. John Orchard reports that a player is almost ten times more likely to reinjure their ACL in the first 12 months after the initial injury. After his third knee surgery Schwarz returned to football after 18 months of rehabilitation. He won his clubs best and fairest award in 1999 and went on play many more years of football, retiring in 2002."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4205204/

"The incidence of a second injury to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) within the first 12 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport in a young, active population has been reported to be 15 times greater than a previously uninjured cohort.

The overall incidence rate of a second ACL injury within 24 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport was nearly 6 times greater"


Note: I'm pretty sure that the latter figure includes all of the first 12 month injuries, therefore - I believe - injuries exclusively between the 12 -24 month time frame would be significantly below that "6 times greater" figure. The incidence in the 18-24 month period would be significantly lower again. Happy to be corrected on that, but even if I'm wrong, 15 times vs 6 times more likely to re-injure is still significant in itself.




Playing or not playing 10-12 games in 2016 will not define his career. Another catastrophic injury will. Cost/benefit and all that - to me the answer is pretty clear. Are playing those 10-12 2016 games worth adding, say, 10%-20%-30% chance to likelihood of re-injury (and effectively ending his career)?

2016 doesn't have to be a "lost' season - concentrating on making himself as elite an athlete as possible in 2016 (work with Craig Motram / other elite long distance runners to improve his endurance day on day, work with sprint experts to improve his explosiveness and 5/20 metre times, pretty much a year of exclusive fitness coaching that the rest of the team won't have access to/time to invest in), getting taught by a master tactician during coaches box stints as Sedat mentioned, these are not useless or wasted goals/pursuits/achievements.

Then he starts competitive footy again in 2017, having given his body the absolute best chance possible, and if it's not meant to be (another injury or it turns out to have been too long out of the game), then its not meant to be. But rolling the dice again, coming back this year after only 12-13 months, with that kind of history of re-occurrence, to me would be borderline idiotic.

Agree with all of that but after your third knee reco he's up against it you'd think. If the club is prepared to be patient with him and he can be patient with himself, which goes completely against his natural instinct, then great, I hope he does come back fitter in 2017. The longer he's out the harder it gets though. The fact that he is only 22 is a massive plus.

[Twodogs]

Agree 100%.

Posters have been torn to shreds in the past for suggesting that some players have come back too early from ACL injuries (because, you know, it's only through the benefit of hindsight that we could possibly have known a 29 year old 198cm tall Luke Darcy partaking in full competitive drills less than 8 months after his ACL op wasn't a great idea), but there is some scientific theory behind holding players back for an extra 6 months.


http://www.sciencealert.com/the-prognosis-for-acl-injuries

"Research conducted by sports physician and sports injury researcher Dr. John Orchard reports that a player is almost ten times more likely to reinjure their ACL in the first 12 months after the initial injury. After his third knee surgery Schwarz returned to football after 18 months of rehabilitation. He won his clubs best and fairest award in 1999 and went on play many more years of football, retiring in 2002."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4205204/

"The incidence of a second injury to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) within the first 12 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport in a young, active population has been reported to be 15 times greater than a previously uninjured cohort.

The overall incidence rate of a second ACL injury within 24 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport was nearly 6 times greater"


Note: I'm pretty sure that the latter figure includes all of the first 12 month injuries, therefore - I believe - injuries exclusively between the 12 -24 month time frame would be significantly below that "6 times greater" figure. The incidence in the 18-24 month period would be significantly lower again. Happy to be corrected on that, but even if I'm wrong, 15 times vs 6 times more likely to re-injure is still significant in itself.




Playing or not playing 10-12 games in 2016 will not define his career. Another catastrophic injury will. Cost/benefit and all that - to me the answer is pretty clear. Are playing those 10-12 2016 games worth adding, say, 10%-20%-30% chance to likelihood of re-injury (and effectively ending his career)?

2016 doesn't have to be a "lost' season - concentrating on making himself as elite an athlete as possible in 2016 (work with Craig Motram / other elite long distance runners to improve his endurance day on day, work with sprint experts to improve his explosiveness and 5/20 metre times, pretty much a year of exclusive fitness coaching that the rest of the team won't have access to/time to invest in), getting taught by a master tactician during coaches box stints as Sedat mentioned, these are not useless or wasted goals/pursuits/achievements.

Then he starts competitive footy again in 2017, having given his body the absolute best chance possible, and if it's not meant to be (another injury or it turns out to have been too long out of the game), then its not meant to be. But rolling the dice again, coming back this year after only 12-13 months, with that kind of history of re-occurrence, to me would be borderline idiotic.


Terrific to see you back with a great post as usual Guido.

You're right. He would be better off this year improving aspects of his game that aren't strong at the moment and come back a much better player next year. It would better than bringing him back after the usual 12 months. That's been the plan for each return so far and we all know what Einstein said about the definition of insanity.

Would you give him a game or two at tge end of the season though. He might be more amenable to the idea if there is a game or two on the horizon a little sooner than next year. Although Schwattz's complete 18 month recovery period saw a bit of a miracle. That's the example I'd be trying to sell to Clay.

When is Clay contracted until?

[jeemak]

Clay's contracted to the close of 2016.

[Ghost Dog]

I guess more the point it's surprising that the medical staff think it's even possible he can return. With each reco, is the chance of the following one less successful? or is it a clean slate each time? ( under a certain age ).
Menzel has also had three, and will watch him with interest this season.

[Bulldog4life]

I guess more the point it's surprising that the medical staff think it's even possible he can return. With each reco, is the chance of the following one less successful? or is it a clean slate each time? ( under a certain age ).
Menzel has also had three, and will watch him with interest this season.

Menzel has had 4 reco's GD.

[Sedat]

Menzel has had 4 reco's GD.
Yep, although I believe it has been a combination of knees with Menzel and not the same graft each time. Clay has torn his right ACL 3 times - I can't think of any player who has sustained a long-term AFL career tearing the same ACL 4 times, possibly Lee Walker?

[LostDoggy]

Yep, although I believe it has been a combination of knees with Menzel and not the same graft each time. Clay has torn his right ACL 3 times - I can't think of any player who has sustained a long-term AFL career tearing the same ACL 4 times, possibly Lee Walker?

Even Walker only ended up playing 16 games despite being on the list for a long time. Hardly a career that Clay could look to for inspiration.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for the correction. it's better for the same graft to have issues rather than different parts of your knees, 4 times? Does that not mean it's a problem with the graft, not a genetically something wrong with his knee?
You don't have to have dicky knees to do your ACL in AFL.

[Bulldog4life]

Yep, although I believe it has been a combination of knees with Menzel and not the same graft each time. Clay has torn his right ACL 3 times - I can't think of any player who has sustained a long-term AFL career tearing the same ACL 4 times, possibly Lee Walker?

Good point Sedat I didn't realize Menzel had the same trouble with both knees. Fingers crossed for Clay.

[bulldogtragic]

I assume Clay will want to be part of this in even more hurry now. I wonder how we can cool his heels. Assuming Dickson replaced Dunkley today, would Clay in form beat out others and in what positions? What odds do you give him being a late season recruitment?

[josie]

I love Clay and hope club holds him back longer this time if it helps his chance if successful comeback. I think he fulfills similar role to Koby and both are damn good players. As season progresses there will be injuries and/or tired players so I think there is a spot for him.

[bulldogtragic]

And still loving you big fella!

[SonofScray]

Am a little teary.

This is great news. I made sure I was there to see him return in the VFL, sad not to see him get out there in the Big Leagues again. The guy is everything I love about footy and Footscray's football identity. Genuinely tough, ferocious at the contest and dogged in his work rate. Usually when you say someone is the sort of bloke you want in the trenches, it can be seen as a back handed compliment, but in Clay's case he is that and a gun too so it's not. Ha.

[The Underdog]

*!*!*!*!ing great news. Hope he has a cracker

[Eastdog]

So glad his back. Good luck Clay.

[josie]

Wonderful news. I will be very nervous watching the game, as I have been watching him in his return VFL matches. I think the boys will play with real fire and put in a great performance for and with Clay.

[EasternWest]

Happy and nervous for Clay. Will be a great story.

[LostDoggy]

This is fantastic news.
Welcome back Nuggett!

[LostDoggy]

Can't wait to see him back. If his body can hold up he will be a star. Tough as they come and skills to burn

[Smads57]

Best of luck Clay

[bornadog]

He has had his bad luck, now for a run of consecutive games for a few years.

[Ozza]

He has had his bad luck, now for a run of consecutive games for a few years.

His persistence and ferocious application to getting back is really admirable. He appears to be a really popular fella within the playing group, and the boys will love having him out there this week.

[Bulldog4life]

So happy for Clay that he gets to do what he loves again at the highest level. A true competitor who will compliment our current mids.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I've have expressed doubts about his kicking action since we drafted Clay, but there is no questioning his intent, desire and tenacity and with Dahl out, a fit, firing Clay Smith gives us another steel edge at the contest.
All the very best to the young man. Lets hope he can finally get a clear run at an AFL career now.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Another Bulldog beast at the contested ball and tackler to make the opposition know they're playing the Bulldogs, this one with the sting of a scorpion in his tail.

[merantau]

Great to see Clay back. What a game for a comeback game! Well done Clay. Great courage, application and dedication to your re-hab AGAIN. All downhill for you now.

[bulldogtragic]

Certainly as strong as he has ever been. Having kids rotate up forward, it took me a while to adjust to a small/mid forward who couldn't get knocked off the ball or the contest.

[The bulldog tragician]

I noticed this too. He must have amazing core strength. As well as that massive heart.

I held my breath every time he went near it. And then I remembered all the reasons why we need this guy in our best 22. Clay, you're magnificent. Welcome back champ.

[ledge]

Loved his last effort that's what he is a bull.

[Ozza]

If you haven't seen it, nice little post-game interview with Clay on the Bulldogs app.

[westdog54]

Loved his last effort that's what he is a bull.

One of the fiercest tackles I've seen for a while.

[Bulldog4life]

And will only get better....according to the man himself.

[SonofScray]

On reflection, the lack of respect offered to him in the media as someone coming back from 3 knee recos and a long time out of the game was disappointing. C.f with Menzel's treatment. Even a proper nod in the commentary would've been nice.

[Remi Moses]

Couldn't agree more . The coverage was pathetic, and they just race to the bottom of the barrel

[merantau]

Couldn't agree more . The coverage was pathetic, and they just race to the bottom of the barrel

Yes, compare media frothing at the mouth over another Silvagni playing at Carlton while, at the same time, practically ignoring Andrew Walker's 200th game and Clay Smith's comeback. Ordinariness par excellence.

[SlimPickens]

On reflection, the lack of respect offered to him in the media as someone coming back from 3 knee recos and a long time out of the game was disappointing. C.f with Menzel's treatment. Even a proper nod in the commentary would've been nice.

Robbo had him as his "hero of the week" on 360 last night, so he wasn't passed over completely.

[hujsh]

Robbo had him as his "hero of the week" on 360 last night, so he wasn't passed over completely.
Is Robbo starting to earn more respect here with the Essendon saga dying down and the hatred well and truly focused on Barrett?

[Ozza]

AFL 360 is regularly a bulldogs love fest.

Those with the view that the dogs get no love from the media mustn't watch AFL360...or also anything that Gerard Healy has been involved in for the last 10 years (not sure why he loves us so much - but always has!).

[SlimPickens]

AFL 360 is regularly a bulldogs love fest.

Those with the view that the dogs get no love from the media mustn't watch AFL360...or also anything that Gerard Healy has been involved in for the last 10 years (not sure why he loves us so much - but always has!).

Throw David King (for the most part) into that conversation also.

[Mantis]

Throw David King (for the most part) into that conversation also.

He has certainly gone off us due to our lack of scoring.. For him to rate us we have to get back into the 'premiership quadarant'.

[comrade]

'

He has certainly gone off us due to our lack of scoring.. For him to rate us we have to get back into the 'premiership quadarant'.

If we happen to pump a few teams like Tigers, Essendon etc and get our average scoring up to over 100 points, we'll be right back in contention.

[bornadog]

Robbo had him as his "hero of the week" on 360 last night, so he wasn't passed over completely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16fc56-cYwI

[Ghost Dog]

Barrett gave Bevo and the team a fair roost on AFL Tokyo rose. Credit where it is due.

[The Doctor]

A lot of kudos went to Caleb Daniel, The Bont & JJ for that matchwinning goal and deservedly so. However it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Clay's crunching tackle inside 50 that won us the ball back.

So glad to have him back. We have more beast when he is in.

[F'scary]

Thanks BAD, I hadn't seen that.

[Remi Moses]

What an absolute beast Clay Smith is .

[SlimPickens]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16fc56-cYwI

That dish out to Hunter(34 secs in), possibly my favourite bit of the game. Love this kids tenacity.

[F'scary]

That dish out to Hunter(34 secs in), possibly my favourite bit of the game. Love this kids tenacity.

Clay Smith: "The Extractor"

[bornadog]

That dish out to Hunter(34 secs in), possibly my favourite bit of the game. Love this kids tenacity.

Clay was unstoppable in the tackling in that sequence.

I noticed his field kicking was very good in Saturday, some accurate passes.

[westdog54]

That dish out to Hunter(34 secs in), possibly my favourite bit of the game. Love this kids tenacity.

That sort of play is the main reason I've been itching for him to return.

He's far more than just a raging bull, he actually knows his to use his body position and his strength in order to increase his chances of winning the ball and this is a shining example of it.

He's an insanely smart footballer in tight.

[comrade]

Just praying to the footy gods that his knees hold up for the next 3 months.

He's actually what our forward line needs. Manic pressure, physicality and some smarts around goal.

[soupman]

Just praying to the footy gods that his knees hold up for the next 3 months.

He's actually what our forward line needs. Manic pressure, physicality and some smarts around goal.

Basically a better version of early 2015 Honeychurch's role.

I was impressed with his kicking too. I've always thought he was a bad looking kick as opposed to a bad kick and despite cringing everytime I saw his ball drop he pretty much hit a target every time.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Welcome return. He hasn't 'lost it'. Let's just hope he keeps it via a strong body.

Some of his efforts of pure desperation were incredible v Sydney. He's exactly what we need up forward, could be a very crucial player (touch on wood).

[SonofScray]

He has this maniacal attack on the footy and an old school, truely tough, stoic demeanour. Could be your great grandpa. If it was local footy, you'd be genuinely scared to line up on the bloke, nothing to do with punch ups, niggle or any the Norf faux tough guy approach though. Just pure infliction of pain any time you managed to get to the footy first.

[azabob]

Out and Out Gun.

I am so ashamed of myself, I totally forgot how good he is. I even said on this forum he would struggle to be best 22.

When players are injured for long periods the public / media tend to view them with rose coloured glasses and they become better than what they actually are - this tends to happen to 99% of players.

Clay Smith is clearly in the 1 %.

Here's hoping to ten more years of egg on my face....

[ledge]

He has this maniacal attack on the footy and an old school, truely tough, stoic demeanour. Could be your great grandpa. If it was local footy, you'd be genuinely scared to line up on the bloke, nothing to do with punch ups, niggle or any the Norf faux tough guy approach though. Just pure infliction of pain any time you managed to get to the footy first.

Redpath is of the same ilk

[Ghost Dog]

88% game time first game back in. And that win was one of the best I can remember. Good lad.
Clay, Libba, CD, Luke D, Wally, Bont with cameo from Jake Stringer. That's an A-grade midfield.

[jeemak]

Any space for Hunter and Macrae in that list of yours GD?

[Ghost Dog]

Any space for Hunter and Macrae in that list of yours GD?

That's the thing with that list. There is always someone on the edges willing to dive in.
Hunter and MaCrae are more outside players but are surprisingly tough inside. They don't look as hard as they really are.

I thought Clay smith was outstanding tonight. I am incredibly proud of him. Will be really important with Libba on ice for a bit.

[josie]

Clay needs to teach some of our other players how to tackle well. His never say die attitude is just inspiring.

[westdog54]

His tackling is off the chart.

I said in the Three things thread that he could code swap to rugby. I was dead serious. His tackling technique is perfect for rugby. Gets down low and really drives through. Plus he's composed, smart and can make snap decisions in traffic.

He'd make a great five eighth or centre.

[bulldogtragic]

His tackling is off the chart.

I said in the Three things thread that he could code swap to rugby. I was dead serious. His tackling technique is perfect for rugby. Gets down low and really drives through. Plus he's composed, smart and can make snap decisions in traffic.

He'd make a great five eighth or centre.

He has a neck though, that's the only thing against him. His attack and grip is great, I think only Dusty got out of his tackles tonight and he did that to every player virtually. With Libba likely to miss some time, I'm looking forward to him in the engine room.

Ranked on AFL Fantasy Points as equal 5th best on ground in his second game back. Not bad Clay. Not bad.

[jeemak]

It looks as if he's done a serious amount of work on his kicking action these past few years. Whilst it's still not pretty, it's looking more compact and controlled, and some of his kicks thus far have cut through the air nicely.

[Hotdog60]

The tackle in the last quarter was a beauty. I forget who the target was but he felt every bit of Clays intent.

[Mantis]

The tackle in the last quarter was a beauty. I forget who the target was but he felt every bit of Clays intent.

Alex Rance, got him in the sweet spot.

[The Pie Man]

Alex Rance, got him in the sweet spot.

Was standing near this - he read the play from about 10 metres away and sprant to Rance before he took possession.

It was beautiful to watch

[Mofra]

Was standing near this - he read the play from about 10 metres away and sprant to Rance before he took possession.

It was beautiful to watch
I just enjoyed any post that uses the term "sprant" :o

That was a great tackle though, we were all chuckling about how Clay will absolutely destroy an opponent one day. That was by itself one fo the better tackles anyone has laid this year.

[1eyedog]

Alex Rance, got him in the sweet spot.

Nah Rance was in the 2nd, the big one in the last was on Astbury - nailed him. Astbury looked up as if to say who or what the hell was that!

[always right]

It looks as if he's done a serious amount of work on his kicking action these past few years. Whilst it's still not pretty, it's looking more compact and controlled, and some of his kicks thus far have cut through the air nicely.

Noticed this as well. His kicking technique actually looked......normal. It's enable him to get some pretty good penetration on them as well. Low and quick.....and spinning properly.

[Mantis]

Nah Rance was in the 2nd, the big one in the last was on Astbury - nailed him. Astbury looked up as if to say who or what the hell was that!

Yes it was.. If he is causing that amount of damage to the big guys I can't wait until he lines up a little bloke.. When do we play Norf again? I'm happy to paint a 'X' on Lindsay Thomas's rib cage.

[The Pie Man]

I just enjoyed any post that uses the term "sprant" :o

That was a great tackle though, we were all chuckling about how Clay will absolutely destroy an opponent one day. That was by itself one fo the better tackles anyone has laid this year.

For someone that loses his mind at your/you're & losing/loosing errors....awkward :o

For a forward line short on movement, Clay has played the pest we sorely need very well. He will be big in September

[bulldogtragic]

Yes it was.. If he is causing that amount of damage to the big guys I can't wait until he lines up a little bloke.. When do we play Norf again? I'm happy to paint a 'X' on Lindsay Thomas's rib cage.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind doing Firrito too please.

[comrade]

Yes it was.. If he is causing that amount of damage to the big guys I can't wait until he lines up a little bloke.. When do we play Norf again? I'm happy to paint a 'X' on Lindsay Thomas's rib cage.

Hope he plants Spud Firritto.

[EasternWest]

For someone that loses his mind at your/you're & losing/loosing errors....awkward :o

For a forward line short on movement, Clay has played the pest we sorely need very well. He will be big in September

Don't loose you're mind mate. Your all right.

[soupman]

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind doing Firrito too please.

Can we include Scott Thompson too?

[azabob]

Can we include Scott Thompson too?

And Harvey

[bulldogtragic]

And Harvey

Oh, Nahas if I get two requests. I hate the Nahas.

[The Pie Man]

Don't loose you're mind mate. Your all right.

Walked into that

[Rocket Science]

Oh, Nahas if I get two requests. I hate the Nahas.

While Clay's working his way down that ample list, suppose it's a bit much to request a gentle clip for their coach during the quarter time huddle a la Brereton?

[bulldogtragic]

I forgot just how good he is. 3 last night, 3 posters and a denied goal for running too far. His manic pressure, tackling, bumping and ferocious attack is just what we needed. If he brings this every week, he's not getting dropped anytime soon. As Bevo said in the presser, he brings fear as opposition players hear him coming.

[lemmon]

It's all heart with Clay. He's got that Glenn Archer 'live by the sword, die by the sword' way of playing. If there were a player who could be forgiven taking a short step it's Clay but he throws himself at it as ferociously as anyone I"ve seen.

[Rocco Jones]

It's not just his tackling. I know it's not the intention but we are borderline patronising to Clay the amount we focus on his tackling. He has a few attributes that give him the flexibility to add value forward. Puts his ahead of the legion of inside mids we have who have to rotate/spend majority their time forward.

1- Despite his poor kicking technique, he has good goal sense. The typical 'knows where the goals are' type. He looks way more comfortable snapping the ball rather than when he has time to conventionally pass the ball up the ground.

2- His tenacity doesn't end at ground level. He is a competitive aerial beast, doing anything he can to get the ball to ground. In the first quarter of last night's game he got hands to a marking contest and kicked a goal form his own crumbs.

3- Agility/quick turn. He hasn't lost it after the knee recos.

4- Natural ball finder. Means unlike other small forwards, it's hard to keep him out of the game for long periods.

[dukedog]

Just re watched the game to look closely at boyd and clays work. I can understand by watching and sitting on the sidelines thinking about his game while injured, you should become a smarter player. But boy clay putting it to practice after very few games is outstanding. If his skills ever get near his desire for the footy. He will be in the lenny hayes quality of player. Keep it up clay. Becoming a favourite of mine.

[SonofScray]

It's all heart with Clay. He's got that Glenn Archer 'live by the sword, die by the sword' way of playing. If there were a player who could be forgiven taking a short step it's Clay but he throws himself at it as ferociously as anyone I"ve seen.

Not all heart, a dash of Hollywood too. See that turn he did ? Lead the chasing defender a merry dance, juked him out of his boots. After his injuries, you aren't supposed to do that. Had the ball on a string when he got it in space on the run as well.

[bornadog]

The optimistic Dog who knows every game could be his last (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-18/bulldog-clay-smith-knows-every-game-could-be-his-last)


CLAY Smith knows his career is likely over if he seriously injures his right knee again, but he isn’t fazed.

The Western Bulldogs midfielder, who has endured three reconstructions on his right knee in three years, played his third game on Saturday night since returning from his latest injury lay-off.

True to his recent run of luck, the 23-year-old managed to hit the post on three occasions and had a possible goal of the week nomination disallowed in the 48-point win over Gold Coast.

It didn’t shake the resilient Dog, who finished with 3.4 from 17 possessions to be one of their best.

“The first poster was shocking, I should have nailed that. I thought the other two might have swung back in," Smith told AFL.com.au.

"The one I got called for running too far was a case of, if I had a bounce, I would have got caught.

"I'm sure I'll get the luck of the draw in the next few weeks."

Having such an optimistic outlook on life was pivotal in Smith’s ability to fight back from adversity and overcome years of rehabilitation, and now has him regarded as an important part of the finals-bound Bulldogs.

"Clay's as hard as anyone at the footy and any opponent in the comp," coach Luke Beveridge said.

Smith has mixed his work up between the forward line and the midfield in his past three games.

"It's the defensive side of game, I think the opposition hear him coming and he's going to be important for us (in the run to the finals),” Beveridge said.

"He's done some special things since he's come into the side."

While the Gippsland product will never shy away from attacking the contest at 100 miles an hour, he's well aware if his right knee does give way again, his highly promising and stop-start career will be finished.

But Smith is subscribing to the old theory – 'the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have.'

"My last recovery period was 13 months and it was the longest out of the three injuries and I've come back feeling really confident," Smith said.

"I ended up having a quad graft this time to repair my knee and the doctors believe this will be the strongest one yet, but if it goes again that's pretty much the (end of my career).

"But as soon as I step on the ground I don't think about my knee at all, I have complete confidence in it.

"'Bevo' is pretty happy with playing down forward with my tackling and pressure, but I'll play more in the midfield as I find my feet.

"It's just good to get some continuity."

That stability in his footy is yet to see Smith play in a losing side this season, but he's not about to tempt fate and declare himself a lucky charm.

"I've told the boys we've won three in a row since I've been in the side," Smith joked.

"And I'll need to remind 'Bevo' too if he's thinking of dropping of me."

[bulldogtragic]

Love the last few comments! :D

[1eyedog]

Please hold together.

[hujsh]

Was a bit worried about the rumours on here about his attitude. Gad they've proven to be untrue or at a minimum look to have been sorted out.

While it's hard to imagine Clay having a bad attitude it'd be hard not to feel hard done by generally in his situation.

He's been a great addition to the forwardline and has been an incredibly important part of all 3 wins.

[comrade]

Exactly what our forward line needed in terms of pressure and aggression. Just hold up for a few more months big fella.

[LostDoggy]

Was a bit worried about the rumours on here about his attitude. Gad they've proven to be untrue or at a minimum look to have been sorted out.

While it's hard to imagine Clay having a bad attitude it'd be hard not to feel hard done by generally in his situation.

He's been a great addition to the forwardline and has been an incredibly important part of all 3 wins.

He definitely has a bad attitude, on the field, at the opposition, and its great to see. He is just that sort of player that puts fear into the the ther team. He is hard and he tackles harder. Such a bonus having him back.

[always right]

When Dahlhaus returns, I think we'll find it a battle for the small forward position between Clay, Dickson and McLean. If he can maintain form and fitness, my money is on Clay. He and Dahlhaus will give defenders nightmares with their tackling pressure.

[Ozza]

When Dahlhaus returns, I think we'll find it a battle for the small forward position between Clay, Dickson and McLean. If he can maintain form and fitness, my money is on Clay. He and Dahlhaus will give defenders nightmares with their tackling pressure.

Is Dahlhaus really a forward these days? The last year and a half - I would have thought he has spent as much time as an inside mid as anyone.

[always right]

Is Dahlhaus really a forward these days? The last year and a half - I would have thought he has spent as much time as an inside mid as anyone.

I would have thought he plays 60/40 midfield which is still plenty of time up forward.

[hujsh]

Is Dahlhaus really a forward these days? The last year and a half - I would have thought he has spent as much time as an inside mid as anyone.

There's last year he was more of an inside mid to compensate for our injuries but given the current makeup of the team we could definitely throw him forward more often.

[stefoid]

The way we keep the ball in our forward half, everyone is a forward.

[ledge]

I'm telling you now Clay SMith is a true mid .. Wouldn't want to be in the middle with the ball knowing he is around ready to smash you.

[ledge]

How the hell someone came up With the idea he is a forward baffles me, his kicking action would tell you don't let him near the goals !
Just shows all this technique stuff is rot if you kick straight no matter what your action looks like.
Then again 3 posters and one from a metre away is a worry,
The two opposites action wise, him and DIckson.

[bornadog]

How the hell someone came up With the idea he is a forward baffles me, his kicking action would tell you don't let him near the goals !
Just shows all this technique stuff is rot if you kick straight no matter what your action looks like.
Then again 3 posters and one from a metre away is a worry,
The two opposites action wise, him and DIckson.

I prefer him as a permanent forward now, too slow to be in the middle - we have enough slow mids, and besides he is handy around goals.

[LostDoggy]

I prefer him as a permanent forward now, too slow to be in the middle - we have enough slow mids, and besides he is handy around goals.

Agree.
His forward pressure and presence is frenzied and manic.

[The bulldog tragician]

What a gem. If there is any justice in footy Clay will now finally get the continuity he deserves.

[Murphy'sLore]

The phrase 'scary good' was invented for Clay.

[bulldogtragic]

And so does the club. A one year extension today. Congrats Clay, you premiership player you.

[Remi Moses]

Premiership player " insert name here" has a great ring to it

[bornadog]

New year, fresh focus (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-12-11/new-year-fresh-focus)
Western Bulldogs forward Clay Smith believes the Bulldogs are capable of recapturing their best form as they embark on the 2018 season.


“There’s a nice, positive vibe,” Smith told westernbulldogs.com.au.


“Everyone’s come back and has got that hunger to get back into finals and playing some good footy again.”


In his sixth season at VU Whitten Oval, Clay Smith notched his 50th game in 2017. The match was a significant milestone given the 24-year-old has suffered three knee reconstructions during his playing career.


“It was a long wait, I had 30 (games played) in my first two years and 20 (games) in the next four (years). It was nice to hit that first milestone, it’s something I really want to build on now,” he said.


Smith signed a one year contract extension in May, buoyed by opportunity to get the best of out every game he plays.


“It’ll be pretty much one year (contracts) for a little while with my injury history and everything.


“It’s a good thing though, it keeps me on my toes and makes me train to the best of my ability and try to earn another contract.


“I guess it’s going out there with that freedom and just enjoying every game because I’ve had a few setbacks. It’s more about enjoyment and playing the best footy I can.”


Smith wed his partner, Sarah, in the off-season and is enjoying married life.


“I haven’t got the ring on at the moment, she’ll kill me!”, he laughed.


“It was unreal. The day went pretty much perfectly – we had good weather and then we shipped off to Mexico for a few weeks and LA for a few days.”


Smith has adopted his wife’s surname initially on Instagram but is hoping to make the change official.


“It’s not official yet, but it will be,” Smith said.


“It’s more something I’ve taken on for Sarah’s side of the family. There were two girls and no more O’donohue's. It meant a lot to her and her family.


“I don’t know if I’ll change it for footy but legally we’ll both have hyphenated names and so will the kids.”

[Twodogs]

Clay Smith-O donohue, huh? That's very thoughtful of Clay.

[Axe Man]

I always wonder when the hyphenating will end. What if a Smith-O'donohue marries a McKenzie-McHarg and becomes a Smith-O'donohue-McKenzie-McHarg?

[Twodogs]

I always wonder when the hyphenating will end. What if a Smith-O'donohue marries a McKenzie-McHarg and becomes a Smith-O'donohue-McKenzie-McHarg?

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

[Murphy'sLore]

My husband SAYS he wishes he'd had the guts to change his name to mine last time he changed jobs. Says it's too late now. Convenient!

[Twodogs]

My husband SAYS he wishes he'd had the guts to change his name to mine last time he changed jobs. Says it's too late now. Convenient!


How many times did he have to practice telling you that before he got it down pat? :cool:

[josie]

At least smith is a one syllable name so hyphenation kinda ok. Anyone thinking clay looks a bit leaner in video on doggies website? Quite a few of the players look leaner and others stronger eg Cordy filling out across shoulders like Ayce could only dream about. The fact they have interviewed Clay and popped it on website is a good sign in itself. Love ya Clay!!

[ledge]

Ayce Cordy had to build up his shoulders by strapping them, he just couldn't put it on at all , shame really because if he could have put on weight he would have been a great player.
He knew how to use his body but it just wasn't big enough and he got pushed aside.
His brother had the same build to start but looks like he can put weight on thank god.

[Twodogs]

Ayce Cordy had to build up his shoulders by strapping them, he just couldn't put it on at all , shame really because if he could have put on weight he would have been a great player.
He knew how to use his body but it just wasn't big enough and he got pushed aside.
His brother had the same build to start but looks like he can put weight on thank god.

I always thought that it was through the waist and midriff was where Ayce needed to get bigger in. Then he could plant himself and not get pushed out of contests so easily by the opposition ruckman. But your'e right the boy had some talent.

[josie]

Agree Ledge. Ayce is a pretty good ruck in vfl-just did not have build to make it at senior level. Smart chap too-doing medicine at mlb uni. Saw him at tram stop near Haymarket roundabout a while ago and almost got a sore neck looking up at him.

[craigsahibee]

I always wonder when the hyphenating will end. What if a Smith-O'donohue marries a McKenzie-McHarg and becomes a Smith-O'donohue-McKenzie-McHarg?

Surely just one Mc would do. Smith-O'donohue-McKenzie-Harg. Or as O' (Irish) and Mac/Mc (Scottish) virtually both mean Son of or Descendant of, maybe you could run with O'donohue-Smith-Kenzie-Harg.

Before you ask, yes, things are a little quiet at work at the moment ;)

[Mofra]

Ayce Cordy had to build up his shoulders by strapping them, he just couldn't put it on at all , shame really because if he could have put on weight he would have been a great player.
A mate of mine was drinking with Ayce Cordy and Tom Williams and they started comparing injuries.
I know Tom had the reputation, but Ayce blew him out of the water.

[Axe Man]

Surely just one Mc would do. Smith-O'donohue-McKenzie-Harg. Or as O' (Irish) and Mac/Mc (Scottish) virtually both mean Son of or Descendant of, maybe you could run with O'donohue-Smith-Kenzie-Harg.

Before you ask, yes, things are a little quiet at work at the moment ;)

I suppose I could have gone with Minton-Connell as my example but decided on the more obscure Bulldog hyphenated player in McKenzie-McHarg.

[Twodogs]

A mate of mine was drinking with Ayce Cordy and Tom Williams and they started comparing injuries.
I know Tom had the reputation, but Ayce blew him out of the water.


Tom Williams first injury at the club was when he fell off the trampoline at family day.:rolleyes: