Booing Adam Goodes.

[chef]

Watching the GC/Syd game yesterday I see Goodesy was copping a lot of heat from the home fans. Have I missed something here, why are they(and a few other teams fans) booing him?

[1eyedog]

As a person with Aboriginal heritage I'd have to say that Waleed Aly has provided the best summary I've heard.

Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeBu735nFYw

[chef]

It's pretty sad to see.

[G-Mo77]

Mindless sheep chef.

[EasternWest]

I don't care for Adam Goodes.

I think he's a dirty (albeit very good) player that has a lot of his nasty tactics glossed over because of his success as a player.

That being said, I can't understand why people boo him. I think it's become some kind of circlejerk to do it. Honestly, it's some kind of bullying, and I don't like it. It's distasteful. Maybe I'm naive and I just hope it isn't racial because I just can't understand why anybody cares about anybody else's race. It's irrelevant.

It takes actual energy and effort to boo players, and quite frankly, I'd rather save any vocalising effort for supporting our players.

[GVGjr]

Booing any player isnt something that I do. I get why Goodes might grate some people but like just about every other player on the field, he doesn't deserve to be booed.

In this instance i think the GC supporters are following the lead of others.

[Twodogs]

Booing any player isnt something that I do. I get why Goodes might grate some people but like just about every other player on the field, he doesn't deserve to be booed.

In this instance i think the GC supporters are following the lead of others.

Especially in this case. What has Goodes done to the GCS? I don't care for the guy myself but I wouldn't go out of my way to boo him. What's the point? Is he going to hear me and think "oh no, Twodogs doesn't like me, where to from here?"

[AndrewP6]

I really don't get this indignation towards booing. It has been part of the game since day dot, it is not exclusive to Goodes nor any player or group of players. Like it or not it is part of sport, and not just AFL. I hate to give him credit but last week Dermie summed it up for me, basically saying you pay your money, you can express yourself at the footy. So long as you're not being racist, simply booing someone is fine by me. I booed Griffen, I'll boo others if I wish to. I don't like Goodes as I think he is a self absorbed, narcissistic person with a chip on his shoulder. IMO he has done little to unite people, and more to antagonise. That's my opinion, I can express it via booing should I wish to do so.

[chef]

I really don't get this indignation towards booing. It has been part of the game since day dot, it is not exclusive to Goodes nor any player or group of players. Like it or not it is part of sport, and not just AFL. I hate to give him credit but last week Dermie summed it up for me, basically saying you pay your money, you can express yourself at the footy. So long as you're not being racist, simply booing someone is fine by me. I booed Griffen, I'll boo others if I wish to. I don't like Goodes as I think he is a self absorbed, narcissistic person with a chip on his shoulder. IMO he has done little to unite people, and more to antagonise. That's my opinion, I can express it via booing should I wish to do so.

What reason do GC fans for booing Goodes?

I can't think of any. I don't mind booing when there's a reason, but just doing because everyone else is doing is just stupid.

[EasternWest]

I really don't get this indignation towards booing. It has been part of the game since day dot, it is not exclusive to Goodes nor any player or group of players. Like it or not it is part of sport, and not just AFL. I hate to give him credit but last week Dermie summed it up for me, basically saying you pay your money, you can express yourself at the footy. So long as you're not being racist, simply booing someone is fine by me. I booed Griffen, I'll boo others if I wish to. I don't like Goodes as I think he is a self absorbed, narcissistic person with a chip on his shoulder. IMO he has done little to unite people, and more to antagonise. That's my opinion, I can express it via booing should I wish to do so.

Yeah I should clarify that I don't mind people booing to voice their displeasure. It is part of the game, though I don't bother with it for aforementioned reasons.

But if someone whacks one of our players at a game, or an umpire makes a terrible call, then I understand why people would boo for that game. In a lot of ways it can be funny.

But I am concerned about the systemic "let's boo Adam Goodes because it's now a thing". I just don't like the mentality behind it.

[AndrewP6]

What reason do GC fans for booing Goodes?

I can't think of any. I don't mind booing when there's a reason, but just doing because everyone else is doing is just stupid.

Maybe they too think he is a self absorbed antagonist crybaby with a chip on his shoulder? I think if we spend time analysing everything like this it takes the passion out of the game. It is a passionate game, people are entitled to their say.

[chef]

Maybe they too think he is a self absorbed antagonist crybaby with a chip on his shoulder? I think if we spend time analysing everything like this it takes the passion out of the game. It is a passionate game, people are entitled to their say.

Whats he done to be a self absorbed antagonist crybaby with a chip on his shoulder?

[chef]

But I am concerned about the systemic "let's boo Adam Goodes because it's now a thing". I just don't like the mentality behind it.

It shows how ignorant a lot of people are I think.

[whythelongface]

I don't understand and I don't like it. As other's have alluded to I can cop booing at something during the course of the game eg poor umpiring; dirty play etc but for Goodesy to cop that every week is a sad indictment on the game. He may be polarizing figure for some but he does not deserve that treatment week in week out.

[AndrewP6]

Whats he done to be a self absorbed antagonist crybaby with a chip on his shoulder?

There you go analysing things! :D... FWIW, I found the 'war dance' episode last week completely antagonistic. I thought its biggest achievement wasn't to unite but to divide, and I felt it to be all about Adam Goodes, not indigenous people per se. I felt his attack on that 13 year old child to be completely unnecessary, and his labelling her as "the face of racism" was an appalling lack of empathy and forethought. The theatrical pointing her out, then leaving the game because of her, was disgusting. I just get the feeling of the chip on his shoulder whenever I hear him speak. His indignation at the booing shows this, like booing is only done to him. No, Adam, it's as old as the game itself.

[GVGjr]

I really don't get this indignation towards booing. It has been part of the game since day dot, it is not exclusive to Goodes nor any player or group of players. Like it or not it is part of sport, and not just AFL. I hate to give him credit but last week Dermie summed it up for me, basically saying you pay your money, you can express yourself at the footy. So long as you're not being racist, simply booing someone is fine by me. I booed Griffen, I'll boo others if I wish to. I don't like Goodes as I think he is a self absorbed, narcissistic person with a chip on his shoulder. IMO he has done little to unite people, and more to antagonise. That's my opinion, I can express it via booing should I wish to do so.

I dont agree and I think your logic is flawed. Booing was done because certain players were guilty of repetitive dirty acts on the field.
Now its done for a variety of other reasons not necessarily footy related.
I think many people have now embraced it because it's the done thing on the shows like the wrestling. In the manner its often done now it just lacks class.

Each to their own but its cheers more than jeers for me. Id need a better reason than many are offering up with Goodes.

[1eyedog]

I really don't get this indignation towards booing. It has been part of the game since day dot, it is not exclusive to Goodes nor any player or group of players. Like it or not it is part of sport, and not just AFL. I hate to give him credit but last week Dermie summed it up for me, basically saying you pay your money, you can express yourself at the footy. So long as you're not being racist, simply booing someone is fine by me. I booed Griffen, I'll boo others if I wish to. I don't like Goodes as I think he is a self absorbed, narcissistic person with a chip on his shoulder. IMO he has done little to unite people, and more to antagonise. That's my opinion, I can express it via booing should I wish to do so.

Not sure you're in a position to comment on whether he has united Aboriginal people or not, sure you're entitled to your opinion on whether this is true or not, but it would be a pretty uneducated and Eurocentric one.

I would be interested to hear why you don't think he has united his people, but this board is not a suitable medium for such a discussion. If you had of said he has not contributed to real reconciliation in this country then you may have a point.

[AndrewP6]

I think your logic is flawed.
Where? The history of booing is actually greater than our game, it goes back to Roman gladiator games. It was done to voice displeasure, poor performances, or simply to vent. And it still is.


I think many people have now embraced it because it's the done thing on the shows like the wrestling. In the manner its often done now it just lacks class.
Completely disagree but as you say, to each their own. I'd hate for the experience of going to the footy to be so sanitised that people weren't free to express their opinions, afraid of being perceived as having no class. I've offered my reasons, no one has to agree but people do have a right to express themselves.

[Doc26]

I dont agree and I think your logic is flawed. Booing was done because certain players were guilty of repetitive dirty acts on the field.
Now its done for a variety of other reasons not necessarily footy related

I think many people have now embraced it because it's the done thing on the shows like the wrestling. In the manner its often done now it just lacks class.

Each to their own but its cheers more than jeers for me. Id need a better reason than many are offering up with Goodes.

Nathan Buckley was booed incessantly by opposition supporters throughout much of his career and he was a highly skilled and fair player.

Assuming racism is not at the heart of the booing that Adam is now facing maybe it stems from a similar place to what motivated so many to jeer Buckley.

[jeemak]

There you go analysing things! :D... FWIW, I found the 'war dance' episode last week completely antagonistic. I thought its biggest achievement wasn't to unite but to divide, and I felt it to be all about Adam Goodes, not indigenous people per se. I felt his attack on that 13 year old child to be completely unnecessary, and his labelling her as "the face of racism" was an appalling lack of empathy and forethought. The theatrical pointing her out, then leaving the game because of her, was disgusting. I just get the feeling of the chip on his shoulder whenever I hear him speak. His indignation at the booing shows this, like booing is only done to him. No, Adam, it's as old as the game itself.

But isn't the ignorant face of racism in this country perfectly represented by a 13 year old girl who doesn't know why calling an indigenous person an ape is so offensive? I absolutely agreed with his comments, and I think it's important that Goodes himself called for her to be supported.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-25/goodes-gutted-but-places-no-blame/4712772

Goodes critics are very selective with the bits and pieces of history they choose to associate with him.

I don't know what it's like to be the subject of racist taunts. I don't know how it feels to point someone out for labeling me an ape, knowing I'm going to wear a barrage of criticism for it from some quarters of society. I don't know how I'd react, or whether I'd be interested in sticking around to dwell on it after it happened.

[AndrewP6]

Not sure you're in a position to comment on whether he has united Aboriginal people or not, sure you're entitled to your opinion on whether this is true or not, but it would be a pretty uneducated and Eurocentric one.

I would be interested to hear why you don't think he has united his people, but this board is not a suitable medium for such a discussion. If you had of said he has not contributed to real reconciliation in this country then you may have a point.

I was talking about uniting all of Australia, not the indigenous people. I don't purport to know what indigenous Australians think, though I do know at least a couple who are put off by him. And no, I'm not "uneducated".

[1eyedog]

I was talking about uniting all of Australia, not the indigenous people. I don't purport to know what indigenous Australians think, though I do know at least a couple who are put off by him. And no, I'm not "uneducated".

Fair enough, I misunderstood when you said that he had done little to unite his people.
I've been reading this forum long enough to know you're not uneducated Andrew :)

[GVGjr]

Nathan Buckley was booed incessantly by opposition supporters throughout much of his career and he was a highly skilled and fair player.

Assuming racism is not at the heart of the booing that Adam is now facing maybe it stems from a similar place to what motivated so many to jeer Buckley.
Tall poppy and many rated him as getting too many easy kicks in the back half. Did he deserved to be booed? People judged him on his perceived arrogance and the FIGJAM moniker stuck with him. I didnt like him that much but booing him would have been a couple of steps too far.

[1eyedog]

Tall poppy and many rated him as getting too many easy kicks in the back half. Did he deserved to be booed? People judged him on his perceived arrogance and the FIGJAM moniker stuck with him. I didnt like him that much but booing him would have been a couple of steps too far.

I boo every Collingwood player, not really, but the Collingwood captain should expect the brunt of opposition barrages.

[Ghost Dog]

I boo every Collingwood player, not really, but the Collingwood captain should expect the brunt of opposition barrages.

Nick Maxwell didn't really cop it that much.

[Ghost Dog]

As a person with Aboriginal heritage I'd have to say that Waleed Aly has provided the best summary I've heard.

Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeBu735nFYw

For me, it's not to do with his aboriginal heritage. He gets protection from the umps, and sooks, dives etc.


https://youtu.be/KjJtg-GAE9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wloMkKUwNHI

[hujsh]

But isn't the ignorant face of racism in this country perfectly represented by a 13 year old girl who doesn't know why calling an indigenous person an ape is so offensive? I absolutely agreed with his comments, and I think it's important that Goodes himself called for her to be supported.


It's kind of like when people didn't understand why the blackface thing on Hey Hey It's Saturday was so offensive. It may not be intended to be racist but being ignorant to these things can lead to people accidentally really hurting others. You can also pick things up from your parents or the community and if no one points out how wrong the saying/insult/word etc is you'll never really know what the impact of what you say is going to be.

People feel the wardance was divisive and in isolation maybe it was. I don't mean to compare the two in terms of significance but I'm sure Winmar pointing at the colour of his skin was divisive as well. I think we've become a better society for it. I don't know if Goodes' wardace will have the same impact because racism today is so different and much harder to identify/stamp out than it once was.

[jeemak]

https://youtu.be/KjJtg-GAE9k

That's no worse than I've seen from pretty much every gun in the league at one stage or another.

I've seen Hodge do it, I've also seen Hodge elbow people and hit people in the face. Shall we boo him to the extent that we boo Adam Goodes?

[Ghost Dog]

That's no worse than I've seen from pretty much every gun in the league at one stage or another.

I've seen Hodge do it, I've also seen Hodge elbow people and hit people in the face. Shall we boo him to the extent that we boo Adam Goodes?

I've never seen Luke Hodge do that.
If Liam Picken was made Australian of the year tomorrow, and began championing a human rights cause, he would probably be booed as well if he dove around and complained to the umpires all the time. It's just good old Australian tall poppy syndrome, mixed in with tribalism, and sheep following sheep.

[AndrewP6]

But isn't the ignorant face of racism in this country perfectly represented by a 13 year old girl who doesn't know why calling an indigenous person an ape is so offensive?

No it isn't. A child's brain, impulse control and ability to reason are not fully developed at 13. In fact, some say that doesn't happen until the mid 20s. Expecting a 13 year old to be able to make decisions that some people twice her age can't/don't make is not only unfair, but physiologically unlikely. That is likely why she said she didn't even know it was racist. Goodes' (and many others, it must be said) publicly shaming her was abhorrent. It's also unfair to blame a child for the wrongdoing of adults she cannot possibly be responsible for.

[hujsh]

No it isn't. A child's brain, impulse control and ability to reason are not fully developed at 13. In fact, some say that doesn't happen until the mid 20s. Expecting a 13 year old to be able to make decisions that some people twice her age can't/don't make is not only unfair, but physiologically impossible. That is likely why she said she didn't even know it was racist. Goodes' (and many others, it must be said) publicly shaming her was abhorrent. It's also unfair to blame a child for the wrongdoing of adults she cannot possibly be responsible for.

What you say about the brain is correct. You sometimes lack empathy and the ability to think through the potential consequences of your decisions. However you can't combine that and ignorance as a defence. Either she didn't know it was racist or she made an impulsive decision to call Goodes an ape despite knowing it was wrong because she lacks the maturity to make a sound decision.

I also think your bar for sound decision making for a 13 year old is low. Plenty of idiots in their 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s and 90s who make decisions you would not expect a 13 year old to make.

[AndrewP6]

What you say about the brain is correct. You sometimes lack empathy and the ability to think through the potential consequences of your decisions. However you can't combine that and ignorance as a defence. Either she didn't know it was racist or she made an impulsive decision to call Goodes an ape despite knowing it was wrong because she lacks the maturity to make a sound decision.[\QUOTE]
Either way could be correct. FWIW, she said she didn't know it was wrong, and was immediately criticised. That is abhorrent, so too the public shaming of her.

[QUOTE=hujsh;441513] I also think your bar for sound decision making for a 13 year old is low. Plenty of idiots in their 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s and 90s who make decisions you would not expect a 13 year old to make.
Maybe so, but we shouldn't publicly criticise her simply because she made one comment. I work with children, and I have expectations for their behaviour choices. I also understand that sometimes they will make wrong choices. Goodes obviously doesn't have a clue about that.

[GVGjr]

I've never seen Luke Hodge do that.
If Liam Picken was made Australian of the year tomorrow, and began championing a human rights cause, he would probably be booed as well if he dove around and complained to the umpires all the time. It's just good old Australian tall poppy syndrome, mixed in with tribalism, and sheep following sheep.

If anyone should have been booed it was Luke Hodge for his forearm to the face of Andrew Swallow. He is perceived as a tough player but there was nothing tough with that action. If Goodes or any player plays for frees then the umpires are the problem more so than the players.

[Ghost Dog]

If anyone should have been booed it was Luke Hodge for his forearm to the face of Andrew Swallow. He is perceived as a tough player but there was nothing tough with that action. If Goodes or any player plays for frees then the umpires are the problem more so than the players.

I agree, but unfortunately and I don't like it, but someone who dives is seen as being infinitely more villainous than a player who gives someone a whack. It's crazy when you think about it, because you can blind or or even kill someone with an elbow to the head.

[jeemak]

No it isn't. A child's brain, impulse control and ability to reason are not fully developed at 13. In fact, some say that doesn't happen until the mid 20s. Expecting a 13 year old to be able to make decisions that some people twice her age can't/don't make is not only unfair, but physiologically unlikely. That is likely why she said she didn't even know it was racist. Goodes' (and many others, it must be said) publicly shaming her was abhorrent. It's also unfair to blame a child for the wrongdoing of adults she cannot possibly be responsible for.

This is the point, her behaviours were learned and she was ignorant to the level of offence they can cause. Hence, being the ignorant face of racism in Australia. By saying she is the face of racism in Australia, Goodes is suggesting that racist learned behaviours are ingrained early into the psyche of our youth when behaviours that reflect inclusiveness and tolerance should.

That's how I read it, and we don't have to agree :)

[Remi Moses]

He gets booed because he poses questions Australians don't like hearing
As for the dance, what would Australians know about Aboriginal culture and heritage ?
It's only recently we've started being educated on their culture and history
It was only 20 years ago when the public consensus was what happens on the field stays on the field .
If they boo someone for diving people are going to be voiceless

[hujsh]

Either way could be correct. FWIW, she said she didn't know it was wrong, and was immediately criticised. That is abhorrent, so too the public shaming of her.


Maybe so, but we shouldn't publicly criticise her simply because she made one comment. I work with children, and I have expectations for their behaviour choices. I also understand that sometimes they will make wrong choices. Goodes obviously doesn't have a clue about that.

I agree with Jeemak that Goodes wasn't trying to publicly shame an individual but highlight an issue in society. I very much doubt he meant "this specific individual girl is the aspect of racism" but rather "the face of racism in modern Australia is a 13 year old white girl calling an Aboriginal person an ape and not knowing why it's offensive".

[Remi Moses]

There's no way known that Goodes knew how old the girl was.
Don't think he has any control on the media frenzy that then took place either.
Good think was a young girl knows it's the wrong thing to say, and is educated.
Nothing said, and she thinks it's okay to call someone an ape.

[AndrewP6]

There's no way known that Goodes knew how old the girl was.
Don't think he has any control on the media frenzy that then took place either.
Good think was a young girl knows it's the wrong thing to say, and is educated.
Nothing said, and she thinks it's okay to call someone an ape.

He commented in an interview after the incident that his initial thought (at the time of the incident, not after giving it some thought) was it was a "14 year old girl"...So clearly, he did know. And he still thought it was OK to publicly embarrass her. He also said he didn't blame her - well, calling for security in a sporting arena with thousands of people in attendance, TV cameras, photographers, it's hard to see any good coming out of that. Embarrassment as education was out of favour decades ago. He doesn't control the media, but his words and actions can most definitely influence they way they report things.

[1eyedog]

If anyone should have been booed it was Luke Hodge for his forearm to the face of Andrew Swallow. He is perceived as a tough player but there was nothing tough with that action. If Goodes or any player plays for frees then the umpires are the problem more so than the players.

What an excellent point you've made.

[bornadog]

He commented in an interview after the incident that his initial thought (at the time of the incident, not after giving it some thought) was it was a "14 year old girl"...So clearly, he did know. And he still thought it was OK to publicly embarrass her. He also said he didn't blame her - well, calling for security in a sporting arena with thousands of people in attendance, TV cameras, photographers, it's hard to see any good coming out of that. Embarrassment as education was out of favour decades ago. He doesn't control the media, but his words and actions can most definitely influence they way they report things.

What is sad is this 14 year old has learnt from an adult to make comments like that.

I am afraid racism is alive and well in this country and around the world.

[jeemak]

He commented in an interview after the incident that his initial thought (at the time of the incident, not after giving it some thought) was it was a "14 year old girl"...So clearly, he did know. And he still thought it was OK to publicly embarrass her. He also said he didn't blame her - well, calling for security in a sporting arena with thousands of people in attendance, TV cameras, photographers, it's hard to see any good coming out of that. Embarrassment as education was out of favour decades ago. He doesn't control the media, but his words and actions can most definitely influence they way they report things.

So how should he have handled it? By just brushing it off and then making comments about it after the game?

Indigenous people have been brushing things off for long enough, and when they've complained they've not been supported.

I have a feeling if Goodes had have waited until after the game to mention he was abused by someone he thought was approximately 14 he'd have faced a huge amount of criticism.

[Remi Moses]

He commented in an interview after the incident that his initial thought (at the time of the incident, not after giving it some thought) was it was a "14 year old girl"...So clearly, he did know. And he still thought it was OK to publicly embarrass her. He also said he didn't blame her - well, calling for security in a sporting arena with thousands of people in attendance, TV cameras, photographers, it's hard to see any good coming out of that. Embarrassment as education was out of favour decades ago. He doesn't control the media, but his words and actions can most definitely influence they way they report things.

So if Goodes says nothing the girl walks away thinking a racial comment at the footy is okay ?
Goodes called the girl out and the rest snowballed .
How on earth can that be contributed to Goodes? He calls the girl out and security does its job.

[AndrewP6]

So if Goodes says nothing the girl walks away thinking a racial comment at the footy is okay ?
Goodes called the girl out and the rest snowballed .
How on earth can that be contributed to Goodes? He calls the girl out and security does its job.

The girl didn't know she was making a racist comment. It can be attributed to Goodes because he chose to do it. I don't purport to know what racism feels like, I don't purport to know how it feels to be marginalised/ostracised/abused because of the colour of your skin. I do know that humiliating a child to make a point is wrong.

[chef]

Why wouldn't she know she's making s racial comment?

[Remi Moses]

The girl didn't know she was making a racist comment. It can be attributed to Goodes because he chose to do it. I don't purport to know what racism feels like, I don't purport to know how it feels to be marginalised/ostracised/abused because of the colour of your skin. I do know that humiliating a child to make a point is wrong.

Little bit naive to think it wasn't a racial slur .
He pointed out the perpetrator . Should he have asked how old she was while pointing her out?
The media went into overdrive, so how is that attributed to Goodes? The cameraman/ director panned onto her, and again can't be attributed to Goodes. He was rattled after the game and was shocked by the comment.
As you said you have no idea what it would be like to be in His shoes

[AndrewP6]

Why wouldn't she know she's making s racial comment?

Who can know the mind of a 13 year old? Seriously... kids view the world in very different ways to adults. What is a harmless comment to them might be taken the complete opposite way by someone else, and it may be that one needs to point out the fact that they've offended someone. They can also be brutally honest without intending offence. I once taught a child, who was very bright, (a couple of years younger, admittedly) who went through phases of pretending to be figures from history- specifically war history. He was very fond of impersonating Napoleon Bonaparte. One day he was talking to some other kids, when he gave a "Heil Hitler", along with the salute. I had to pull him aside and tell him how offensive it was, and that at some point, someone would be upset with this. He had no idea, simply thought it was the words of someone from a book he'd been reading. He was then horrified that he might have upset someone. It is often how "bullying" starts, with remarks thought to be in jest, taken the wrong way. To that girl, it may well have been just a word. I can't imagine myself at 13 having a good grasp of what constituted racism. The other point is, we don't really know where she is at, intellectually-speaking. It's quite possible she really didn't understand the nature of her remark.

[AndrewP6]

Little bit naive to think it wasn't a racial slur .
He pointed out the perpetrator . Should he have asked how old she was while pointing her out?
The media went into overdrive, so how is that attributed to Goodes? The cameraman/ director panned onto her, and again can't be attributed to Goodes. He was rattled after the game and was shocked by the comment.
As you said you have no idea what it would be like to be in His shoes

She said it, we have to take her at her word. If your "naive" comment was directed at her, well why shouldn't a 13 year old be naive?

He didnt need to ask her age, he said he thought she was 14. Then proceeded to have her kicked out of the stadium.

[Remi Moses]

Why wouldn't she know she's making s racial comment?

Was with a group of kids, and may have been cohersed .
One in the group if not all would know what the term " ape" to a person of Colour means
Funny how history repeats, where the majority had the " sticks and stones" mentality of 20 years ago and the whole " anything to get an edge" ,hello Tony Shaw. Just as gutsy as Long was 20 years ago, Goodes is as well in focusing in on aboriginal issues.

[Remi Moses]

She said it, we have to take her at her word. If your "naive" comment was directed at her, well why shouldn't a 13 year old be naive?

He didnt need to ask her age, he said he thought she was 14. Then proceeded to have her kicked out of the stadium.

I take your point on the naivety, but do you think a group of teenagers don't know the repercussions of calling a coloured person an ape? Really? I take exception on blaming Goodes for the snowballing effect that took place.

[AndrewP6]

I take your point on the naivety, but do you think a group of teenagers don't know the repercussions of calling a coloured person an ape? Really? I take exception on blaming Goodes for the snowballing effect that took place.

Teenagers spans 13-19, that's a huge range. The older yes, the younger, not necessarily. (really!) I've spoken to twelve year olds that believe Santa is real. We can't apply one rule to all teenagers. Fair enough, I take exception to Goodes belittling a child.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not getting involved. But the young girl seems to a recurrent issue. Eddie McGuire's King Kong remarks towards Goodes after the girl incident and then NO AFL action hasn't been as prominent an issue in the thread. Eddie had no excuse. The AFL had no excuse. The media who didn't pursue this to the end had no excuse. That matter had more opportunity to end racism with decisive action than this circular conversation has over the past few weeks in the media. Nothing substantial happened on an extreme occrance of racism by an AFL club president, about an indigenous player on national syndicated media and we are debating booing from sections of crowds and why it's happening? Would sections of crowd be booing with an level of racism if the AFL actually enforced zero tolerance of racism? It's impossible to kick a punter out of a ground for booing with racist undertones when AFL club Presidents can racistly label the highest profile indigenous player and get a slap on the wrist. I think the problem is deeper than the surface arguments either way.

[AndrewP6]

I'm not getting involved. But the young girl seems to a recurrent issue. Eddie McGuire's King Kong remarks towards Goodes after the girl incident and then NO AFL action hasn't been as prominent an issue in the thread. Eddie had no excuse. The AFL had no excuse. The media who didn't pursue this to the end had no excuse. That matter had more opportunity to end racism with decisive action than this circular conversation has over the past few weeks in the media. Nothing substantial happened on an extreme occrance of racism by an AFL club president, about an indigenous player on national syndicated media and we are debating booing from sections of crowds and why it's happening? Would sections of crowd be booing with an level of racism if the AFL actually enforced zero tolerance of racism? It's impossible to kick a punter out of a ground for booing with racist undertones when AFL club Presidents can racistly label the highest profile indigenous player and get a slap on the wrist. I think the problem is deeper than the surface arguments either way.

Agree totally. McGuire's remarks didn't get anywhere near the pasting he deserved/deserves.

[chef]

Was with a group of kids, and may have been cohersed .
One in the group if not all would know what the term " ape" to a person of Colour means
Funny how history repeats, where the majority had the " sticks and stones" mentality of 20 years ago and the whole " anything to get an edge" ,hello Tony Shaw. Just as gutsy as Long was 20 years ago, Goodes is as well in focusing in on aboriginal issues.

Yeah, I've got a couple of teemage daughters. She knew what she was saying IMO.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm very happy Adam has his 'dancing' ( as in the great Archie Roach song ).
I think quite a few people probably feel deeply jealous of Adam, and this is how they vent their spleen. Where is the 'dancing' in the suburbs?

There is a sort of 'forced' and a little contrived 'multiculturalism message that is entirely necessary, an vitally important, but also is not being met with an appropriate campaign to educate people about and celebrate the roots of anglo-saxons culture in a non-violent, and non-jingoistic manner. And how do you do that anyway? It's complex. But you don't respect others if you can't respect yoursef. Leaning over the fence and just booing him as everyone else is doing it is yobo stuff.

Adam is a champ, but has to be a bit careful, coming out, as Australian of the year and saying ' Australia is based on lies' may not be the best way to go forward. There is right, and there is truth. He has to accept that if you stand up for the weak, you get a few knockers, but look, he's doing it his way, and people pay their money to shout or boo or do what they want, so that's what it is.

[Remi Moses]

The irony of it all is that Goodes is lambasted for bringing up events that have occurred two hundred years ago, yet we celebrate our English head of state's birthday ( even though it isn't) a relic of the past .
The irony of it all:p

[hujsh]

There is a sort of 'forced' and a little contrived 'multiculturalism message that is entirely necessary, an vitally important, but also is not being met with an appropriate campaign to educate people about and celebrate the roots of anglo-saxons culture in a non-violent, and non-jingoistic manner. And how do you do that anyway? It's complex. But you don't respect others if you can't respect yoursef. Leaning over the fence and just booing him as everyone else is doing it is yobo stuff.



Maybe part of the problem here is what we choose to commemorate as a nation vs what we do not. There's plenty in Australian history and society to be proud of and plenty to be ashamed of. When we celebrate things like Australia Day (invasion day for some) and ANZAC day (which has been completely white-washed in a lot of media) we probably get too close to that Nationalistic culture. I've talked to Asian people born here who have to put up with shouts of 'go back where you came from' on Australia Day (Ironic). Similarly the U18s coach at a footy club I was at like to talk about how the ANZACs died for our freedoms and it made me wonder if he knew what WW1 was actually about.

Maybe if we thought more critically about our history and culture and found real things to celebrate there would be less backlash against people like Goodes.

[GVGjr]

Little bit naive to think it wasn't a racial slur .
He pointed out the perpetrator . Should he have asked how old she was while pointing her out?
The media went into overdrive, so how is that attributed to Goodes? The cameraman/ director panned onto her, and again can't be attributed to Goodes. He was rattled after the game and was shocked by the comment.
As you said you have no idea what it would be like to be in His shoes

At her age it's more than likely something she was mimicking from a family member. Goodes did nothing wrong on that night and if people are holding that against him I don't think that is a great reason.

[Remi Moses]

The biggest issue is our lack of education
It's been so slanted towards the first settlement and has ignored aboriginal history .
Pretty shameful

[Remi Moses]

At her age it's more than likely something she was mimicking from a family member. Goodes did nothing wrong on that night and if people are holding that against him I don't think that is a great reason.

Well said G

[jeemak]

Hence my comments about learned behaviours.

If you grow up poor you're more likely to be poor throughout life, if you grow up among unhealthy people you're going to be more likely to live an unhealthy life, if you grow up in an ignorant or uneducated environment you're more likely to live your life ignorant and uneducated.

Goodes comments post the incident broadly spoke of this person needing support and education. In saying that he's completely on the money. All he has advocated for is more education, support and understanding across society, but yet people don't want to see or hear that, what they want to see, hear and highlight is the things they believe he is doing wrong, to the point where the only kudos he receives is for winning Brownlows and Flags, with the caveat that he's a diver and a bit of a sniper.

[GVGjr]

Jeemak, perhaps the best explanation I have read about Goodes and his genuine intentions on that night. Many thanks.

[ledge]

Hence my comments about learned behaviours.

If you grow up poor you're more likely to be poor throughout life, if you grow up among unhealthy people you're going to be more likely to live an unhealthy life, if you grow up in an ignorant or uneducated environment you're more likely to live your life ignorant and uneducated.

Goodes comments post the incident broadly spoke of this person needing support and education. In saying that he's completely on the money. All he has advocated for is more education, support and understanding across society, but yet people don't want to see or hear that, what they want to see, hear and highlight is the things they believe he is doing wrong, to the point where the only kudos he receives is for winning Brownlows and Flags, with the caveat that he's a diver and a bit of a sniper.

But it's the media that highlights it both ways too

[ledge]

I also might add a lot of players get booed but the media was the one who managed to mention it was racial booing .. How the hell can you summize saying boo to someone is racial ? We do it to Reiwoldt for the last ten years but because he isn't black it's not racial!
Maybe we just boo him Because he is so good and plays for the opposition, maybe he did something like Reiwoldt did and that's why he gets booed but to actually say its racial is just media making something out if nothing.. The media has gone completely mad !
If it was racial wouldn't everyone that plays and is his race get booed ? They don't so it's not racial.
It's football culture to boo an opposition player and he just happens to be the swans one who gets it.

[Remi Moses]

I also might add a lot of players get booed but the media was the one who managed to mention it was racial booing .. How the hell can you summize saying boo to someone is racial ? We do it to Reiwoldt for the last ten years but because he isn't black it's not racial!
Maybe we just boo him Because he is so good and plays for the opposition, maybe he did something like Reiwoldt did and that's why he gets booed but to actually say its racial is just media making something out if nothing.. The media has gone completely mad !
If it was racial wouldn't everyone that plays and is his race get booed ? They don't so it's not racial.
It's football culture to boo an opposition player and he just happens to be the swans one who gets it.

That's not right. He gets booed because he has opinions that challenges the Australian psyche .
To me it's okay if our indigenous players to play nice football, but hey don't get political.

[hujsh]

I also might add a lot of players get booed but the media was the one who managed to mention it was racial booing .. How the hell can you summize saying boo to someone is racial ? We do it to Reiwoldt for the last ten years but because he isn't black it's not racial!
Maybe we just boo him Because he is so good and plays for the opposition, maybe he did something like Reiwoldt did and that's why he gets booed but to actually say its racial is just media making something out if nothing.. The media has gone completely mad !
If it was racial wouldn't everyone that plays and is his race get booed ? They don't so it's not racial.
It's football culture to boo an opposition player and he just happens to be the swans one who gets it.

What players get booed regularly? I don't watch AFL apart from our games so I don't know. I'd be interested to know if there's anyone who's regularly booed without a specific reason (like the Riewoldt one) and likewise what exactly Goodes could have done to Carlton or Gold Coast to elicit that response.

Also does Franklin get booed. You'd think he'd be a more likely target appearing to be more of a dickhead

[chef]

What players get booed regularly? I don't watch AFL apart from our games so I don't know. I'd be interested to know if there's anyone who's regularly booed without a specific reason (like the Riewoldt one) and likewise what exactly Goodes could have done to Carlton or Gold Coast to elicit that response.

Also does Franklin get booed. You'd think he'd be a more likely target appearing to be more of a dickhead

I don't think they boo their own, so he doesn't get booed.

[ledge]

We booed Ward and Griffen the other night, franklin gets booed by hawks supporters, we boo Reiwoldt collingwood has even booed its own in Cloke !
It's not racial in any way shape or form, if Goodes is saying its racial its him making it racial just by saying it isnt it ? it's media making something out of an Australian culture to boo at Sport if we wish, We boo broad at the cricket, we have booed tennis players we boo at every sport about something.
Why would Australians be racial against Austrailans?
Lets face it in reality it was the Australian government who were the racial ones back in the 50s not the Australian people.
I'm sorry but I think the whole booing me is racist is so childish and attention seeking rubbish.
It's an insult to the Australian football fan to even suggest it's racist in my eyes.

[GVGjr]

You're missing the point Ledge, go back to the opening post because it's posing the question why GC supporters are booing him. What is their reason?

[ledge]

You're missing the point Ledge, go back to the opening post because it's posing the question why GC supporters are booing him. What is their reason?

Who knows could be many reasons maybe they saw him do something in a pack or maybe they just don't like him but to play the racial card is rubbish, do GC fans boo every indigenous Australian if that was the case I would say it was racist but they don't so it's something related to him not his race.

[Twodogs]

You're missing the point Ledge, go back to the opening post because it's posing the question why GC supporters are booing him. What is their reason?


I don't think ledge is missing the point. I think we have moved away from the GCS question and into new territory about why Goodes gets booed at all. And I think he makes a series of series of excellent points about why a whole bunch of people, indigenous and non indigenous get booed.

[Ghost Dog]

This is where we might find some source of some of the booing.

Nobody ever chained up my family so I am not suggesting this is the same from my point of view.
But, I remember being on trains in Japan, and kids pointing to me and saying ' Mum, he has a big nose'. Now it could be racial, but it's a kid. it could equally be 'factual' from a child's point of view.

Hindsight is an easy thing, but should the girl have been ejected from the grounds without her family? It would have been more appropriate to take her up to the comms box sit her down with her family and explain the policy, and suggest they might want to go away and think about it as a group.
I don't think it's a good idea for minors to be ejected from a ground by themselves. The family has to take responsibility.

Obviously Adam felt very offended. A remark is racist if someone feels it is, and Adam did the right thing.

[GVGjr]

I don't think ledge is missing the point. I think we have moved away from the GCS question and into new territory about why Goodes gets booed at all. And I think he makes a series of series of excellent points about why a whole bunch of people, indigenous and non indigenous get booed.

I believe GC are booing him because it's now done by other sides and if they and other teams supporters are booing him because of what he has said in recent years it's not a good reason.

[Twodogs]

I believe GC are booing him because it's now done by other sides and if they and other teams supporters are booing him because of what he has said in recent years it's not a good reason.

Absolutely. GC as a club have no dog in this race. I have no idea why their supporters are boing Goodes.

[hujsh]

We booed Ward and Griffen the other night, franklin gets booed by hawks supporters, we boo Reiwoldt collingwood has even booed its own in Cloke !
It's not racial in any way shape or form, if Goodes is saying its racial its him making it racial just by saying it isnt it ? it's media making something out of an Australian culture to boo at Sport if we wish, We boo broad at the cricket, we have booed tennis players we boo at every sport about something.
Why would Australians be racial against Austrailans?
Lets face it in reality it was the Australian government who were the racial ones back in the 50s not the Australian people.
I'm sorry but I think the whole booing me is racist is so childish and attention seeking rubbish.
It's an insult to the Australian football fan to even suggest it's racist in my eyes.

You give examples where there's clear reasons that players get booed. But then when it comes to Goodes you play dumb about how it could be anything and decide to interpret the argument as being "all booing is racist". No one's saying booing is always racist but that Goodes gets booed because he's an Aboriginal who's spoken out about racisim and the treatment of Aboriginal people. There's no other apparent reason.



Lets face it in reality it was the Australian government who were the racial ones back in the 50s not the Australian people.

I call bullshit.


Who knows could be many reasons maybe they saw him do something in a pack or maybe they just don't like him but to play the racial card is rubbish, do GC fans boo every indigenous Australian if that was the case I would say it was racist but they don't so it's something related to him not his race.

That's a terrible argument. "I only beat up one nigger. I didn't try to beat them ll up so I can't be racist." The argument is that people don't like Goodes for stepping out of line (in their view) on racial issues. People feel the black man should know his place, toughen up and accept our society for what it is. That's why they boo him. Because they're uncomfortable with the things he says.

[Ghost Dog]

Goodes gets booed because he's an Aboriginal who's spoken out about racisim and the treatment of Aboriginal people. There's no other apparent reason.


Are you sure ? From what I sense at the footy, there are large numbers of knuckle-heads who will copy what the next knuckle head is doing, because they are yobs and like to have a dig.

[ledge]

I remember Goodes sliding in legs first into a player, that's just a no no and there's one reason he could be booed by some, he has done a few things over the years on the footy field and seemed to get away with them that aren't exactly acceptable and it has nothing to do with his race.

[hujsh]

Are you sure ? From what I sense at the footy, there are large numbers of knuckle-heads who will copy what the next knuckle head is doing, because they are yobs and like to have a dig.

There might be some going with the flow but there still needs to be something that starts it off. I've not heard another real reason to specifically target Goodes that couldn't be applied to plenty of other players in the AFL

I remember Goodes sliding in legs first into a player, that's just a no no and there's one reason he could be booed by some, he has done a few things over the years on the footy field and seemed to get away with them that aren't exactly acceptable and it has nothing to do with his race.

I don't love Goodes as a player but can you honestly say he's significantly worse than plenty of other AFL players. What about say Judd? I don't remember the incidents you brought up for Goodes but I'm sure we all remember the eye-gouge. To my knowledge Judd isn't regularly booed (maybe against WCE)

If it turns out Goodes gave Carlton fans the finger unprovoked before this all started I'll back down from my stance but it seems you're going out of your way to make it completely unrelated to race.

[Ghost Dog]

There might be some going with the flow but there still needs to be something that starts it off. I've not heard another real reason to specifically target Goodes that couldn't be applied to plenty of other players in the AFL





Race doesn't start it off....it's the fact he is a damaging player!
They want to affect him. Players can no longer get away with it. But a crowd can. Mob mentality.

There is safety in a mob. They are indulging in something risky, so as to stir up Adam, trying to affect him.
Footy fans are only happy when their team is winning. And all their behaviour is geared toward finding a reward for showing up.
You would find many many people in the crowd are actually married to people from a variety of backgrounds. It's a cruel sort of thing really. If he was a rookie, or not very good player, I'm not sure people would bother.







Firstdogonthemoon (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/02/thanks-a-lot-racists-now-i-cant-boo-adam-goodes) has his two cents

[hujsh]

Race doesn't start it off....it's the fact he is a damaging player!
They want to affect him. Players can no longer get away with it. But a crowd can. Mob mentality.

There is safety in a mob. They are indulging in something risky, so as to stir up Adam, trying to affect him.
Footy fans are only happy when their team is winning. And all their behaviour is geared toward finding a reward for showing up.
You would find many many people in the crowd are actually married to people from a variety of backgrounds. It's a cruel sort of thing really. If he was a rookie, or not very good player, I'm not sure people would bother.


Firstdogonthemoon (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/02/thanks-a-lot-racists-now-i-cant-boo-adam-goodes) has his two cents
Yeah enjoyed Firstdogs piece earlier in the week

The thing is Goodes isn't really that damaging anymore so why target him specifically as opposed to Franklin? None of the proposed alternative reasons Goodes was booed really stack up. He's been dirty, but not as much as other players. He was a great player, but isn't anymore and there's much better players in his team. There's nothing specific to Carlton or the GC to start it off (the GC booing obviously being a backlash against Goodes more than anything else)

This isn't a criminal trial. There's plausible dependability about why Goodes is targeted but the obvious answer is staring us all in the face. I don't think pretending that race, and Goodes willingness to be vocal about the subject, hasn't played a part here is generally helpful.

Of course some people will just boo him because the don't like him or remember something he did that was dirty or whatever but there'd be no more of that for him than any other similar player.

[KT31]

Booing Goodes is the equivalent as booing the villain in a pantomime, having a crack at a 10 year old disadvantaged kid is deplorable and gutless.

[Topdog]

I don't like Goodes cos I believe him to be an annoying person. He doesn't challenge me or ask questions that are hard for me to answer, mainly because I don't listen to him at all. I only watch football and I don't like his behaviour on the field. There are many players I don't like.

He is also a protected species and the war dance aimed at intimidating the opposition crowd was an absolute disgrace. He specifically set out to antagonise the crowd. This is actually unheard of. He went on to say it was a cultural thing even though it was made up in the last decade by a local sports team. He compared it to the haka which doesn't go at fans. To me the AFL should have fined him for inciting the crowd.

I even heard one journo saying the Carlton crowd were a disgrace for yelling at him after the dance and claiming that it was racist. The AFL in allowing this is basically saying you can incite the crowd as long as you have a cultural reference for it.

[Topdog]

I don't like Goodes cos I believe him to be an annoying person. He doesn't challenge me or ask questions that are hard for me to answer, mainly because I don't listen to him at all. I only watch football and I don't like his behaviour on the field. There are many players I don't like.

He is also a protected species and the war dance aimed at intimidating the opposition crowd was an absolute disgrace. He specifically set out to antagonise the crowd. This is actually unheard of. He went on to say it was a cultural thing even though it was made up in the last decade by a local sports team. He compared it to the haka which doesn't go at fans. To me the AFL should have fined him for inciting the crowd.

I even heard one journo saying the Carlton crowd were a disgrace for yelling at him after the dance and claiming that it was racist. The AFL in allowing this is basically saying you can incite the crowd as long as you have a cultural reference for it.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't like Goodes cos I believe him to be an annoying person. He doesn't challenge me or ask questions that are hard for me to answer, mainly because I don't listen to him at all. I only watch football and I don't like his behaviour on the field. There are many players I don't like.

He is also a protected species and the war dance aimed at intimidating the opposition crowd was an absolute disgrace. He specifically set out to antagonise the crowd. This is actually unheard of. He went on to say it was a cultural thing even though it was made up in the last decade by a local sports team. He compared it to the haka which doesn't go at fans. To me the AFL should have fined him for inciting the crowd.

I even heard one journo saying the Carlton crowd were a disgrace for yelling at him after the dance and claiming that it was racist. The AFL in allowing this is basically saying you can incite the crowd as long as you have a cultural reference for it.

Interesting / Valid point of view. Never fear! seems the AFL are on to it Topdog :) Funny article here. (http://titusoreily.com/afl-to-ban-imaginary-spears-at-games/)

[KT31]

Interesting / Valid point of view. Never fear! seems the AFL are on to it Topdog :) Funny article here. (http://titusoreily.com/afl-to-ban-imaginary-spears-at-games/)

Ban it and so they should, an imaginary spear could kill one of Ackers imaginary friends.

Next the Cricket Australia should ban the chainsaw, it only a matter of time before an Australian Cricketer loses and imaginary limb.:D

[Twodogs]

Ban it and so they should, an imaginary spear could kill one of Ackers imaginary friends.

Next the Cricket Australia should ban the chainsaw, it only a matter of time before an Australian Cricketer loses and imaginary limb.:D

Or the ball could hit it when Brett isn't using it and we'd give away 5 imaginary runs.

[KT31]

Or the ball could hit it when Brett isn't using it and we'd give away 5 imaginary runs.

Amazed it hasn't happened already, Lee seems to leave it lying in the middle of the pitch.:)

[Greystache]

Or the ball could hit it when Brett isn't using it and we'd give away 5 imaginary runs.

Don't make light of the subject, I once lost a school cricket match by 3 imaginary runs. The home team needed 2 runs off the last over to win (which we confirmed with the scorers before the over commenced), we bowled a wicket maiden only to walk off the field to be told we lost by 1! A (apparently) thorough audit of the score book surprisingly confirmed the result.

[KT31]

Don't make light of the subject, I once lost a school cricket match by 3 imaginary runs. The home team needed 2 runs off the last over to win (which we confirmed with the scorers before the over commenced), we bowled a wicket maiden only to walk off the field to be told we lost by 1! A (apparently) thorough audit of the score book surprisingly confirmed the result.

It is cheating of the first degree, very ordinary and it happens quite a bit.
One of in one of my Pups games this season the opposition found an extra 20 phantom runs, my Pup stayed back at the ground for half and hour and went over the book with a fine tooth comb, he eventually corrected the book and ended up the winner.

The other thing I detest is when a players is quite clearly stumped or ran out and the square leg (opposition player) gives it not out.

[1eyedog]

I don't like Goodes cos I believe him to be an annoying person. He doesn't challenge me or ask questions that are hard for me to answer, mainly because I don't listen to him at all. I only watch football and I don't like his behaviour on the field. There are many players I don't like.

He is also a protected species and the war dance aimed at intimidating the opposition crowd was an absolute disgrace. He specifically set out to antagonise the crowd. This is actually unheard of. He went on to say it was a cultural thing even though it was made up in the last decade by a local sports team. He compared it to the haka which doesn't go at fans. To me the AFL should have fined him for inciting the crowd.

I even heard one journo saying the Carlton crowd were a disgrace for yelling at him after the dance and claiming that it was racist. The AFL in allowing this is basically saying you can incite the crowd as long as you have a cultural reference for it.

That's a very good, well measured post.

The reasons why he did it run deep in my opinion, still you are right, the action did incite the crowd and yes it was way outside the norm for a professional sportsperson (except Rance of course, a good Jehovahs Witness who gave the birdie to Bulldog supporters a few weeks earlier). I'm not sure if Rance got fined for inciting the crowd when he gave them the birdie? I think the crowd were calling him a homosexual at the time, so maybe it was ok. Maybe the AFL thought that Goodes may have been booed due to his race (he's been called an ape and was racially vilified from the sidelines again last year), so who knows, but if he was, as per Rance, they may have thought his war dance was ok too.

Either way the AFL rightfully didn't touch this, not on Indigenous round, talk about Pandora's Box being opened if they fined him. The AFL already have one headache with Essendon and WADA, I don't think they could deal with the fall out of being labeled discriminatory towards Goodes for inciting the crowd because he was sick of getting called an ape and being booed because he is an outspoken Abo, but not Rance because he didn't like getting called a homosexual.

Anyway, if you were looking for offence you found it in his actions, if you were looking for an example of cultural passion and pride during Indigenous round, then it was a important moment in Australian sport and reconciliation in this country.

[Scraggers]

I have dedicated the majority of my career to Aboriginal education. In doing so, have met some wonderful people, most of whom I still call friend today. I get my back up very quickly when people are racist or make naive remarks; and I always go 'in to bat' for our Indigenous people and culture.

I have absolutely no problem with Goodes calling out the girl, but agree that a 13 yr old girl should not have been sent out by herself. The stadium owes a duty of care to that minor. The whole family should have been removed or at least one responsible adult.

I do have a problem with Goodes' dance after celebrating the goal. If you want to do a 'tribal' dance or 'war cry' as I heard it called, direct it at the opposition, not at the supporters. You are inciting violence. The Haka is directed at the opposing team and it is before the game ... totally acceptable. Goodes' dance during the game, unacceptable. I would love to see something like that before the game directed at the opposing players.

In regard to the booing, it's part of the theatre of AFL. If it is racially motivated then I am opposed, but there is no evidence either way that it is or is not racially motivated. It annoys the shit out of me when the 'race' card is called to explained the unknown.

I admire Goodes for two reasons, he is a proud Aboriginal man, and was a greatly skilled footballer (he is now past his prime), but he is also a tool and I take great pleasure yelling at my television when he gets the ball. And whilst at the Sydney game, I took great pleasure yelling at him ... did I boo? Possibly

[1eyedog]

I have dedicated the majority of my career to Aboriginal education. In doing so, have met some wonderful people, most of whom I still call friend today. I get my back up very quickly when people are racist or make naive remarks; and I always go 'in to bat' for our Indigenous people and culture.

I have absolutely no problem with Goodes calling out the girl, but agree that a 13 yr old girl should not have been sent out by herself. The stadium owes a duty of care to that minor. The whole family should have been removed or at least one responsible adult.

I do have a problem with Goodes' dance after celebrating the goal. If you want to do a 'tribal' dance or 'war cry' as I heard it called, direct it at the opposition, not at the supporters. You are inciting violence. The Haka is directed at the opposing team and it is before the game ... totally acceptable. Goodes' dance during the game, unacceptable. I would love to see something like that before the game directed at the opposing players.

In regard to the booing, it's part of the theatre of AFL. If it is racially motivated then I am opposed, but there is no evidence either way that it is or is not racially motivated. It annoys the shit out of me when the 'race' card is called to explained the unknown.

I admire Goodes for two reasons, he is a proud Aboriginal man, and was a greatly skilled footballer (he is now past his prime), but he is also a tool and I take great pleasure yelling at my television when he gets the ball. And whilst at the Sydney game, I took great pleasure yelling at him ... did I boo? Possibly

Good post.

I'm interested to know why you think he's a tool? Is this just your opinion or something else?

p.s. great avatar btw.

[Scraggers]

Good post.

I'm interested to know why you think he's a tool? Is this just your opinion or something else?

p.s. great avatar btw.

To me he just goes over the top in all his antics. Whether faking to get a free kick or sooking when the play doesn't go his way. He is the first to berate his team mates when they don't kick it to him. He's the Harvey of North Melbourne or the Reiwoldt of St.Kilda ... it's just my opinion, I've never met the man, but he is a player I love to hate and therefore a tool !!

[1eyedog]

To me he just goes over the top in all his antics. Whether faking to get a free kick or sooking when the play doesn't go his way. He is the first to berate his team mates when they don't kick it to him. He's the Harvey of North Melbourne or the Reiwoldt of St.Kilda ... it's just my opinion, I've never met the man, but he is a player I love to hate and therefore a tool !!

Fair enough. I don't feel that way about Goodes, not sure why, same with Richo, who also did many of the things you've listed above.

After Milne, I've shifted my focus to Eddie Betts, who annoys me both as a player and how he, at least in my opinion, has a fair few tickets on himself and I'm also warming to the idea of getting stuck into Billings, who looks like a bit of a smart arse and because he touched us up recently...

[Twodogs]

To me he just goes over the top in all his antics. Whether faking to get a free kick or sooking when the play doesn't go his way. He is the first to berate his team mates when they don't kick it to him. He's the Harvey of North Melbourne or the Reiwoldt of St.Kilda ... it's just my opinion, I've never met the man, but he is a player I love to hate and therefore a tool !!


Good analogy. That's what it is I don't like about him.

[Topdog]

I do have a problem with Goodes' dance after celebrating the goal. If you want to do a 'tribal' dance or 'war cry' as I heard it called, direct it at the opposition, not at the supporters. You are inciting violence. The Haka is directed at the opposing team and it is before the game ... totally acceptable. Goodes' dance during the game, unacceptable. I would love to see something like that before the game directed at the opposing players.


Said much better than I did. Spot on, before the game, towards the opposition I wouldn't have a problem at all.

[chef]

Great stuff from Lewis Jetta sticking up for a mate against a bunch of morons.

So sad seeing a champion of the game getting treated like this.

[whythelongface]

Great stuff from Lewis Jetta sticking up for a mate against a bunch of morons.

So sad seeing a champion of the game getting treated like this.

Agree. I don't understand the treatment that Goodesy receives from other supporters. There has to be more to it than just disliking the guy. There are definitely racist undertones towards him to constantly cop this barrage of abuse. It is a sad indictment both on our sport and the public in general.

Good on Jetta for sticking up for a mate.

[SonofScray]

I have dedicated the majority of my career to Aboriginal education. In doing so, have met some wonderful people, most of whom I still call friend today. I get my back up very quickly when people are racist or make naive remarks; and I always go 'in to bat' for our Indigenous people and culture.


Great post, agree wholly.

Unfortunately, the expression these guys have used to show their frustration has blurred the issue. If you incite the crowd, you can expect to be booed. I don't boo him anymore because I would hate for anyone to think I associate with the mindless bogans who do, driven by their racist beliefs. But if someone did that dance, or a throw slitting gesture at me, or stuck a finger up etc I would quite rightly boo and call them a #$%%

[whythelongface]

Great post, agree wholly.

Unfortunately, the expression these guys have used to show their frustration has blurred the issue. If you incite the crowd, you can expect to be booed. I don't boo him anymore because I would hate for anyone to think I associate with the mindless bogans who do, driven by their racist beliefs. But if someone did that dance, or a throw slitting gesture at me, or stuck a finger up etc I would quite rightly boo and call them a #$%%

So when did Goodes incite the crowd on the weekend?

[Remi Moses]

It's getting pretty embarrassing . If it's on field issues why isn't Gibson, Mitchell , Hodge and others booed?
It's an aboriginal man posing difficult questions to the Australian public, in which they feel uncomfortable about.

[Bulldog Joe]

I actually think it is herd mentality and just booing because it is the thing that everyone else is doing.
Feel that a lot of those involved in the booing really have no idea why they do it.

[merantau]

It's getting pretty embarrassing . If it's on field issues why isn't Gibson, Mitchell , Hodge and others booed?
It's an aboriginal man posing difficult questions to the Australian public, in which they feel uncomfortable about.
I think you've summed up the situation very well. Thankfully we've moved 1) beyond the situation where indigenous players copped it every week from the opposition. And 2) the time when Polly Farmer played for years with scarcely a mention of his Aboriginal origins in the media.
But the booing of Goodes is ugly and let's not kid ourselves: it occurs precisely because he is a proud Aboriginal man who has taken a stand. Good on Jetta for supporting him - that's what mates are for.
When Goodes does something dirty I will boo him. But I won't boo him for taking a mark or giving off a hand pass.

[SonofScray]

So when did Goodes incite the crowd on the weekend?

No idea, didn't watch the game. I am assuming that Jetta was booed in response to his gesture. The booing of Goodes immediately post his dance a few rounds back would have intensified as it was a combination of the clearly racist boo brigade and the more spontaneous reaction from people caught up in the moment.

[GVGjr]

I actually think it is herd mentality and just booing because it is the thing that everyone else is doing.
Feel that a lot of those involved in the booing really have no idea why they do it.

Tend to agree, I get that some of the things he has said and done doesn't sit well with some people but booing is a weak and petty form of a response for what is most likely just a difference of opinion.

I didn't like his war dance because it should have never been directed towards the fans but he was getting booed well before that.

[whythelongface]

No idea, didn't watch the game. I am assuming that Jetta was booed in response to his gesture. The booing of Goodes immediately post his dance a few rounds back would have intensified as it was a combination of the clearly racist boo brigade and the more spontaneous reaction from people caught up in the moment.

Goodes didn't incite the crowd in any way to cop the treatment that he received. The treatment he is receiving is widespread based on him standing up for his beliefs; his people and having the courage to stand up to those who treat people, no matter the colour of their skin or their ancestry, with disrespect. There is no reason for crowds to boo him like they do. What they are saying is we don't like you making a stand for your beliefs we want you to comply with how we think you should behave, after all you are a mere footballer and this is not the place for such matters.

What he has done is bring to the fore the racist element in our society. It is now a mainstream issue again with commentators from both sides of the divide putting their case forward on what they perceive is the right behaviour. The AFL has reacted and needs to do something about it. It is also up to us, as supporter,s to not tolerate this type of behaviour against a decent human being (whether you like him or not).

[The bulldog tragician]

Jordan Roughead was just on 774 about this issue and putting it in the context of our 'Be loud, be fair' campaign. Spoke well. One humorous moment, he was asked if he'd ever been booed on a footy field and he claimed he doesn't get the ball enough for it to be an issue!

[Scraggers]

I pre-empt this comment with with my previous comments regarding my work and social history ... Please read that comment before reading this one (Page 7)

When the Essendon supporters were booing Paddy Ryder (a proud Noongar man) on the weekend, no one said it was race related. It was obvious that it was directed at him because he left Essendon to play for Port. The fact that everyone knew why Paddy was being booed took racism out of the picture. The reason media are saying the booing of Goodes is race related is because they have no other plausible reasons to attribute to it. When Reiwodlt was constantly being booed by the Melbourne supporters on the weekend, no discussion of racism, yet no real reason to boo him (other than the fact he is a tool).

The Race card is pulled way too quickly ... I boo people because they are knobs, I boo bad umpiring decisions, I boo bad sportsmanship on the field. I will not stop booing a person because of their race. This would be racism in reverse. I don't boo Nick Natinui, I don't boo Ahmed Saad, I don't boo Bacha Houli ... Not because it's racist to do it, but because they are not knobs.

The worst comment I have heard over all of this was Paul Roos last night ... He said if Goodes thinks the booing is racist, then it is racist ... Hogwash !!!

[AndrewP6]

I've had my say on this thread, so I won't go on too much but I do find it fascinating that many seem to be able to read minds, and ascribe their own meaning to why the booing occurs. This, without being able to accept that people are free to make their own minds up and express themselves as they see fit.

[jeemak]

I don't see why it has to be booing specifically for one reason, or another. Why can't it be for numerous reasons, of which race could be one?

[Murphy'sLore]

Martin Flanagan put it well today when he likened the booing of Goodes to 'a rope with many strands.'

[Ghost Dog]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/06/18/adam-goodes-still-getting-booed-might-ok/

[Ghost Dog]

I don't boo Bacha Houli ... Not because it's racist to do it, but because they are not knobs.

The worst comment I have heard over all of this was Paul Roos last night ... He said if Goodes thinks the booing is racist, then it is racist ... Hogwash !!!

I reckon the Tiger army has that one covered.

Cutting insight there from Mr Roos, but don't quit your day job. Better focus on the inside of the basket-case footy club in which you find yourself, fella.

[jeemak]

This is the attitude Goodes is speaking out against. How many in the crowd are either too smart to say something like this, or how many in the crowd who are stupid enough to say something like this aren't dobbed in by those accepting of casual racism?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/west-coast-eagles-fan-ejected-over-allegedly-racist-comment-says-it-was-banter-20150728-gim3m7.html

[The Pie Man]

I hesitate to reference SEN callers, but I've heard more than once in the past week people call in saying 'race has nothing to do with it' and 'because he's a divisive figure off the field' in the same explanation.....

Can't wait to not hear about this anymore

[Happy Days]

I think that both a racial element and the group theory argument has some merit to it for explaining the actual boos (there's no way that there are that many [overt] racists at the football), but not the reaction to them.

Call it white guilt or whatever, but there is nothing that a standard middle Australian can't stand more than being accused of being racist. The phrase "I'm not racist but" is uttered almost unilaterally before even saying the word "aboriginal" for a reason. That a racial element has been attributed to such a large group of people who are acting in an unconscious racially (at least somewhat) motivated way is what is inspiring the rabid defensiveness heard across the media. "He's a flog", "He dives", "He incited me with an imaginary spear", and "How dare he be offended by racist comments from a 13 year old" are not reasons for booing, they are explanations from angry and confused people determined to prove that they aren't racist. It's the #notallmen of race relations.

Gerard Whately summed it up perfectly when he said that even if you don't boo for racist reasons, the fact that there is an obvious attributable racial element to the booing makes it cut and dry.

I really feel for Adam, and too can't wait until this is all over.

[Sedat]

Call it white guilt or whatever, but there is nothing that a standard middle Australian can't stand more than being accused of being racist. The phrase "I'm not racist but" is uttered almost unilaterally before even saying the word "aboriginal" for a reason.
Neb7UmvwqM0

[GVGjr]

Jordan Roughead was just on 774 about this issue and putting it in the context of our 'Be loud, be fair' campaign. Spoke well. One humorous moment, he was asked if he'd ever been booed on a footy field and he claimed he doesn't get the ball enough for it to be an issue!

Our club should be commended for their "Be loud, be fair" campaign. All clubs should follow our lead.

The booing of Adam Goodes has gone to a level where is just flat out bullying and while I doubt many will stop there is a lesson the AFL could learn from the way other codes manage poor conduct from their fans and that is to fine the club or deduct points from them.

I'm not sure the whole booing of Adam Goodes is racially motivated but it's a poor reflection on society that so many people do it without a valid reason. If they are booing him for something that happened months ago then it's time to move on.

[Rocco Jones]

Goodes booing thing is so easy. People boo him for 3 reasons:

1- because he is dives and other does annoying things on footy field.
2- because he is a minority who stands up for his race/ isn't just a good minority member and cops whatever, short version... they are being racist.
3- because they are sheep.

Even if you have a 'good' reason to boo Goodes, it's a bizarre call to wanna join in with sheep and racists. Also, booing is a really, really weird for an adult to do.

[Twodogs]

Goodes booing thing is so easy. People boo him for 3 reasons:

1- because he is dives and other does annoying things on footy field.
2- because he is a minority who stands up for his race/ isn't just a good minority member and cops whatever, short version... they are being racist.
3- because they are sheep.

Even if you have a 'good' reason to boo Goodes, it's a bizarre call to wanna join in with sheep and racists. Also, booing is a really, really weird for an adult to do.

Good post. I've never liked the guy but I'm sure not going to bother booing him. Certainly not if I'm going to look like a redneck.

And you're right it is a really weird thing for an adult to do.

[Twodogs]

Wasn't there some booing controversy last year at a AFL game in Perth?

[Ghost Dog]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/west-coast-eagles-fan-ejected-over-allegedly-racist-comment-says-it-was-banter-20150728-gim3m7.html

What are people thinking now in Perth? "I'm definitely going to Boo Adam Goodes harder next time."

Next time I go to the footy, I'm going to target some Pies fans and make up some story about a fictitious racist comment, have them booted out just for fun ;) and I bet I could get away with it!

[Remi Moses]

I've had my say on this thread, so I won't go on too much but I do find it fascinating that many seem to be able to read minds, and ascribe their own meaning to why the booing occurs. This, without being able to accept that people are free to make their own minds up and express themselves as they see fit.

Could you honestly say hand on heart that there isn't a skerrick of racism in some re. goodes

[Remi Moses]

Martin Flanagan put it well today when he likened the booing of Goodes to 'a rope with many strands.'

Agree entirely, and you couldn't say there is a skerrick of race hate .
Australian of the year received some negative feedback, the issue with the girl,etc etc
There is a section that didn't like his comments when he received the Australian of the year , and there's some who to paraphrase Jack Nicholson " you can't handle the truth"

[1eyedog]

Goodes is bloody struggling with this one. regardless of your opinion of him he's doing it tough and I can't see things changing for him anytime soon. I know people who know him reasonably well through the Supply Nation initiative and he has confided in them that he may not play on next year because of the affect the booing is having on him. He believes it is racially motivated. I do feel sorry for Adam, but I am also glad that what is happening is challenging beliefs and putting the racist debate right at the coal face for discussion.

It would be an absolute shame for a two time Brownlow medalist to go out like that.

[GVGjr]

I've had my say on this thread, so I won't go on too much but I do find it fascinating that many seem to be able to read minds, and ascribe their own meaning to why the booing occurs. This, without being able to accept that people are free to make their own minds up and express themselves as they see fit.

To the extent this is now happening to Adam Goodes it's clearly a form of bullying and as such the freedom for people to 'express themselves as they see fit' is now at best highly questionable. And as a side note very few people would have the fortitude to boo him to his face so it's really not an issue of expressing themselves as they see fit, more it's just about the freedom of doing it at a safe distance.

The clubs position of "Be Loud, Be Fair" is spot on and what is happening to Adam Goodes certainly isn't fair.

[ledge]

Shoot me down I'm 52 maybe just old fashioned, but a few thoughts that go through my head are
1 it's only booing it can be a form of respect because he is or was so good a player.
2 take it as a compliment , embrace it ,make it your own make it positive and look at it at a different angle, smile at the crowd like you enjoy it.
3 I don't believe it's racist at all it's just if you know as a supporter you can get under an oppositions skin and put him off his game you will.
4 Get on television and come across as a good person, say things like I love a vocal crowd, boo me it makes me play better, I think it's great im recognised.
5 Some sports encourage it look at wrestling, they even have an unpopular judge on these singing shows.
6 don't take it as racist , human nature sometimes says when your accused if something your not you get your back up and do it more.
7 Some players become crowd favourites to boo, it's nothing to do with race, why is it this time ?
8 he should be proud he is aboriginal not look at it as a negative.
9 I am English back in the 70s I copped every pommy slang you could think of and still do. It's great rivalry.
10 I think it's been over dramatised by the media and now it's escalated.
If the media didn't bring it up early on it would have been dead and buried by now.
11 harden up its just a word of banter, it is not a racial word it's footy !
I don't wish I'll of Adam , great footballer but I tend to agree with Dermott, I remember him sliding into a player feet first, that's what I would boo him for. Not his race ..he is Australian why the hell would Australians boo and Australian for being Australian ?

[bornadog]

To the extent this is now happening to Adam Goodes it's clearly a form of bullying and as such the freedom for people to 'express themselves as they see fit' is now at best highly questionable. .

It has become a form of bullying, racially motivated or not, it has now gone too far.

[1eyedog]

Response deleted.

[jeemak]

Adam Goodes slides feet first into a player, Luke Hodge forearms peoples faces, Sam Mitchell is a repeated kneeing offender (among other things)...............

[Greystache]

Adam Goodes slides feet first into a player, Luke Hodge forearms peoples faces, Sam Mitchell is a repeated kneeing offender (among other things)...............

And Stephen Milne was booed every touch of every game of every year he played... Can't remember the outrage over bullying, I must have just missed it.

[Murphy'sLore]

This has gone way beyond 'normal' booing. It now seems to have become a 'thing' (re Rocco's sheep comment above) and cowardly people are seizing the opportunity of anonymity to express their inchoate discomfort with being confronted by Australia's historical oppression of the Aboriginal peoples. They can also take refuge in convenient justifications about Goodes' on-field behaviour, but it's clearly gone past that. It's classic psychological projection. Adam Goodes articulates uncomfortable truths and we can't bear to hear bad stuff about ourselves, therefore we turn him into the villain. I have lost count of the number of times I've now heard it suggested that he should apologise to the 13 year old who shouted out the 'ape' comment. HE should apologise? Talk about blaming the victim. Congratulations, we have managed to turn this incident around 180 degrees and it's now all Goodes' fault he was abused. Baffling.

[bornadog]

Adam Goodes slides feet first into a player, Luke Hodge forearms peoples faces, Sam Mitchell is a repeated kneeing offender (among other things)...............


And Stephen Milne was booed every touch of every game of every year he played... Can't remember the outrage over bullying, I must have just missed it.

Not sure what point you are making?

[jeemak]

And Stephen Milne was booed every touch of every game of every year he played... Can't remember the outrage over bullying, I must have just missed it.

This article articulates the Milne comparison better than most I've read (and better than I can, to be honest):

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/28/adam-goodes-why-his-critics-arguments-just-dont-stack-up?CMP=soc_567

[jeemak]

Not sure what point you are making?

I'm awaiting the ongoing booing of violent Hawks players who over the years have been at least equally and overtly dirtier than Goodes has been.

If Dermott's logic rings true, and Goodes is treated the way he is because he slid legs first into a contest then Mitchell and Hodge should receive the same treatment.

[bornadog]

I'm awaiting the ongoing booing of violent Hawks players who over the years have been at least equally and overtly dirtier than Goodes has been.

If Dermott's logic rings true, and Goodes is treated the way he is because he slid legs first into a contest then Mitchell and Hodge should receive the same treatment.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I didn't know about Dermott's so called logic.

[chef]

Its gone on far too long and is clearly affect Adam, his friends and his family.

I don't get how some are 'cool' with this level of bullying on someone who has really done nothing much to deserve it.

Just has become herd mentality of a bunch of morons IMO and its quite sad that they want to justify it as their god given right. Majority of them dont even know why they are doing it.

[Greystache]

This article articulates the Milne comparison better than most I've read (and better than I can, to be honest):

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/28/adam-goodes-why-his-critics-arguments-just-dont-stack-up?CMP=soc_567

It makes about as much sense as most of the media commentary on the subject, i.e. none. But rational discussion gets trampled under the boots of the cries of racist by sycophantic apologists and their simple minded followers.

I've steered clear of the discussion because both sides are equally imbecilic for the most part, and sensible discussion is quietly hiding in the dark hoping it's not next on the list to be accused.

[jeemak]

It makes about as much sense as most of the media commentary on the subject, i.e. none. But rational discussion gets trampled under the boots of the cries of racist by sycophantic apologists and their simple minded followers.

I've steered clear of the discussion because both sides are equally imbecilic for the most part, and sensible discussion is quietly hiding in the dark hoping it's not next on the list to be accused.

Why does everything have to be so hard line?

[westdog54]

Why does everything have to be so hard line?

Its a fair call in my view.

Both extremes of this issue have been so vehement in defending their claims that any attempt at rational debate is contaminated by all of the rubbish.

FWIW, the booing started when he came out and made a controvesial statement about how his people are treated in mainstream society.

Maybe he handled the situation with the 12yo Collingwood supporter badly, but that's about the worst of it, and lets face it, that situation was ballsed up by all involved. The message that the behaviour was unacceptable still stands.

I don't remember Akermanis getting widely booed for outing a player he suspected of using performance enhancing drugs, or for suggesting that Gay footballers should stay in the closet. I haven't heard Sam Mitchell getting booed for his recent antics on the field. I don't remember Leigh Matthews getting booed at any stage during his coaching career. Nick Riewoldt, who is probably one of the worst offenders in the league for staging for frees, doesn't get constantly booed.

Why Adam Goodes?

[Greystache]

Why does everything have to be so hard line?

You mean if you boo an aboriginal you're racist no matter your motivation? Not sure, that's just the current climate we live.

[jeemak]

You mean if you boo you're racist no matter your motivation? Not sure, that's just the current climate we live.

So are you talking about the discussion external to WOOF?

The impression I received from your comment was otherwise, though throughout the thread there's been plenty of reasonable discussion.

[Murphy'sLore]

I suspect a lot of people who are booing Goodes genuinely believe that they're not doing it from racist motives. They can supply half a dozen reasons and they claim it's because of the way he's behaved as an individual, and therefore they aren't being racist in booing him.

But dig a little deeper and most of the things that upset them are race-related…

It's complicated.

[jeemak]

Now that Allan Jones is involved hopefully some sense can come back in to the debate :)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/swans-star-adam-goodes-always-plays-the-victim-alan-jones-20150729-gimmn3

[chef]

You mean if you boo an aboriginal you're racist no matter your motivation? Not sure, that's just the current climate we live.


I think the problem is people are just booing him because everyone else is, the majority dont even know why they are doing it. Herd mentality.

I dont think anyone here is saying if you boo him you're a racist.

[Greystache]

I think the problem is people are just booing him because everyone else is, the majority dont even know why they are doing it. Herd mentality.

I dont think anyone here is saying if you boo him you're a racist.

There's a host of reasons, front and centre is people don't like being accused of being racist for no reason other than, ironically, the colour of their skin.

Paul Roos said exactly that, and the players association are now in agreement. If you're boo Adam Goodes you're being racist, no matter your reasoning.

I don't boo players because I don't really see the point. That doesn't mean I dislike them any less. I could highlight an endless string of reasons I don't like Adam Goodes. My dislike for him has grown year on year for more than a decade. But it's simply easier to call me a racist rather than actually accept that much of Goodes' behaviour has caused widespread dislike of him.

I also strongly dislike another 9 or 10 players around the AFL, most of which for similar reasons. Again I don't boo them either, but at least I would be free to should I choose, because as luck would have it they happen to be white.

[whythelongface]

Now that Allan Jones is involved hopefully some sense can come back in to the debate :)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/swans-star-adam-goodes-always-plays-the-victim-alan-jones-20150729-gimmn3

The world according to Alan Jones (you can insert most conservative commentators here and it would be the same). All good now Adam Goodes is to blame for all this. It is he who needs to change his behaviour, not those booing him.

[jeemak]

The world according to Alan Jones (you can insert most conservative commentators here and it would be the same). All good now Adam Goodes is to blame for all this. It is he who needs to change his behaviour, not those booing him.

I think it's a good illustration of what GS is talking about.

No commentator or news outlet (TV and radio in particular) is prepared to allocate the time and resources to explore the topic with any depth, so you end up with very little reasonable or "middle" opinions on the subject matter receiving air time.

[whythelongface]

There's a host of reasons, front and centre is people don't like being accused of being racist for no reason other than, ironically, the colour of their skin.

Surprisingly aborigines don't like to be suppressed and called names and looked down upon, for no reason other than, ironically, the colour of their skin. Then when they make a stand, lo and behold, outrage. The community at large can't accept that a black man, who only plays football, has this opinion and feels this way. Let's boo and tell him we don't like his actions - but hey we are not being racist, we really just dislike him. No seriously we don't hate him because of his skin colour we just don't like him having an opinion and standing up for his own people. We just dislike him for his opinion. He also stages for free kicks, um dives into the ball with his legs. Yes we really dislike him. That is all. Hey but I am not racist. We would do the same if it was a white man. Wouldn't we. Yes I'm sure we would.

[Greystache]

Surprisingly aborigines don't like to be suppressed and called names and looked down upon, for no reason other than, ironically, the colour of their skin. Then when they make a stand, lo and behold, outrage. The community at large can't accept that a black man, who only plays football, has this opinion and feels this way. Let's boo and tell him we don't like his actions - but hey we are not being racist, we really just dislike him. No seriously we don't hate him because of his skin colour we just don't like him having an opinion and standing up for his own people. We just dislike him for his opinion. He also stages for free kicks, um dives into the ball with his legs. Yes we really dislike him. That is all. Hey but I am not racist. We would do the same if it was a white man. Wouldn't we. Yes I'm sure we would.

So tar every white person because, hey, they're all white. At the same time tar every black person because, hey, they're all black and it's outrageous. Such a simplistic view.

[whythelongface]

So tar every white person because, hey, they're all white. At the same time tar every black person because, hey, they're all black and it's outrageous. Such a simplistic view.

and hasn't that been happening to aborigines since white man came to these shores. Such a simplistic view.

[whythelongface]

It makes about as much sense as most of the media commentary on the subject, i.e. none. But rational discussion gets trampled under the boots of the cries of racist by sycophantic apologists and their simple minded followers.

I've steered clear of the discussion because both sides are equally imbecilic for the most part, and sensible discussion is quietly hiding in the dark hoping it's not next on the list to be accused.

But hey call me and those who cry racist sycophantic apologists and simple minded. That's just what we are after all.

[Greystache]

and hasn't that been happening to aborigines since white man came to these shores. Such a simplistic view.

That's a ridiculous justification for what is simply another form of racism. This sort of response is why it's pointless even trying to have a reasonable discussion on this subject.

[whythelongface]

That's a ridiculous justification for what is simply another form of racism. This sort of response is why it's pointless even trying to have a reasonable discussion on this subject.

What the fact that aborigines have been mistreated and are still being mistreated and looked upon as second class citizens. It is the truth. There are people in our society who strongly hold the view that aborigines aren't as equal to white people because of the colour of their skin. If you can't see this then you must be living in another world. All Goodes is trying to do is let people know that racism towards aborigines is real and that people are called names simply because of the colour of their skin.

[Murphy'sLore]

No one is saying that all white people are racist. But we do live in a racist society, and Goodes is describing his reality and the reality experienced by people of colour in this country every day of their lives.

[ledge]

It's all gone way over the top .. Who started this it's racist stuff? The media because they wanted to make a story and now they are saying it's wrong.
The media put it in goodes head it was racist, he jumped on it.
Now the public just boo because it makes headlines.
If the AFL, the media and Goodes ignored it , it would have disappeared by now, now they blow it up even bigger.
It's a game it's the way supporters vent, years ago you called players, umpires female and male anatomical parts.
Umpires get booed all the time Razor Ray has copped more than Goodes in a game than goodes has all his life.
Just play footy and let it be. Boo is not racist !

[Murphy'sLore]

Not ALL booing is racist. But this booing has got to the point where it it is either knowingly racist, or dumbly supporting racism.

[bornadog]

It's all gone way over the top .. Who started this it's racist stuff? The media because they wanted to make a story and now they are saying it's wrong.
The media put it in goodes head it was racist, he jumped on it.
Now the public just boo because it makes headlines.
If the AFL, the media and Goodes ignored it , it would have disappeared by now, now they blow it up even bigger.
It's a game it's the way supporters vent, years ago you called players, umpires female and male anatomical parts.
Umpires get booed all the time Razor Ray has copped more than Goodes in a game than goodes has all his life.
Just play footy and let it be. Boo is not racist !

Don't you think crowds started it by making racist comments over a long period of time.

[westdog54]

Don't you think crowds started it by making racist comments over a long period of time.

Its really become a circular, chicken vs egg argument.

Goodes will claim that he stood up for himself when he received racist abuse.

His detractors will claim the bookings started when he singled out a 13 year old girl and started pontificating about Racism.

A relentless screaming match ensues.

Its become tiresome.

[Ghost Dog]

He's already announced he plans to go into politics after he hangs up the boots. Maybe the rabble are just getting in early?

[Remi Moses]

I think this debate went to the shallow end of the pool when Milne came into conversation.
Really? Do we need to go there?
There's a sheep mentality added with a racist element to this issue.
Funny how he got booed after the speech, and yet some still hang their hat on his on field behaviour ?
I'm not surprised there's some in this country who don't like their thought process challenged.
Goodes is saying something that sits uneasy, and most like swept under the carpet.
Pretty sad

[westdog54]

I think this debate went to the shallow end of the pool when Milne came into conversation.
Really? Do we need to go there?
There's a sheep mentality added with a racist element to this issue.
Funny how he got booed after the speech, and yet some still hang their hat on his on field behaviour ?
I'm not surprised there's some in this country who don't like their thought process challenged.
Goodes is saying something that sits uneasy, and most like swept under the carpet.
Pretty sad

Yep, don't seem to recall him being booed prior to being named Australian of the Year. Pretty sure his on-field antics didn't start then.

[bornadog]

Here is a view from our own Rawtoast:

The AFL has failed Adam Goodes with its reluctance to condemn booing as racist (http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-afl-has-failed-adam-goodes-with-its-reluctance-to-condemn-booing-as-racist-20150729-gimmns.html)
The AFL must address sickening and dehumanising abuse in the interests of justice, player safety and legacy.

The AFL has a cultural crisis on its hands. Spectators booing passionately is a long-standing privilege at the heart of the game of Australian rules football. Indigenous players are also central to the game and the stories that the AFL tells and sells. But if the AFL wants to keep Indigenous players central to the game it must act now. The crisis cannot continue. Not when so many spectators have turned the art of booing into an act of racial hatred.


Australian rules football has long been famous for the provocative passions of its fans. Indeed, the term barracker most likely came from the still-current British verb to "barrack" – to jeer or shout abuse. Previously, when directed at Indigenous players, this "barracking" was frequently racist and full of venom and hate. The term "black" itself was used as if it were a grave insult.


Iconic photos of Winmar's gesture sparked a national conversation similar to the one we are having now. The year was 1993, International Year of the World's Indigenous Peoples, and optimism for change abounded.


Twenty-two years ago Nicky Winmar​ responded to the hateful abuse that he was receiving from Collingwood barrackers by lifting his footy jumper and pointing with pride to his dark skin. Winmar's gesture, together with the actions of Michael Long, Gilbert McAdam, Michael McLean and others led an initially reluctant AFL to place a limit on the barracking of spectators. Racist abuse and many (but not all) other forms of hate speech were banned.


The AFL has become a safer space for Indigenous footballers as a result. Gone for most were the anonymous letters with death threats that were a feature of the 1980s and 1990s. And the number of Indigenous players on AFL teams increased dramatically. At the same time instances of explicit racism decreased markedly, though they did not disappear.


However, the current booing of Adam Goodes, a champion of the game, has the tone, venom and hate that the anti-vilification rule was set up to prevent.


Those who boo Goodes claim their actions are not racist. Yet when pressed, the reasons that they – and those who defend them – give, come back to a burning anger with Goodes. They are offended that he had the temerity to call out the recent racist abuse which he has received. They are affronted that he was made Australian of the Year. And they are furious that he used this platform to draw attention to the continuing racism and disadvantage experienced by Indigenous Australians.


Goodes' race, in other words, is central to the great antipathy being directed at him.


The Age's columnist Waleed Aly said on television recently that crowds were booing their discomfort with Goodes as a strong, unapologetic Aboriginal man. Aly is correct, but when you listen to the crowds they are also booing their hate. To those who have experienced aggressive dehumanising abuse, it is a sickening sound.


The compelling, iconic photos of Winmar's gesture sparked a national conversation similar to the one we are having now. The year was 1993, International Year of the World's Indigenous Peoples, and optimism for change abounded. The day the photos were published, the Federal Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs – Nick Bolkus​ – celebrated Winmar's gesture as standing "for the way ahead in Australia" and called for the AFL to "act aggressively to wipe out such racism".


Now, in 2015, the year of Reclaim Australia rallies, no such federal support or leadership has been offered. Where are the calls from Canberra for unity and reconciliation? The AFL still needs to act strongly to counter the racist booing. Not least because Indigenous people and communities are experiencing the booing as a direct racist attack, and as the AFL's most senior Indigenous official, Jason Mifsud, noted, the game might lose a coming generation of players.


Up to now the AFL has reacted with characteristic caution, with chief executive Gillon McLachlan reluctant to state that the booing has racist elements to it. In so doing the league has thus far failed Goodes, and it took the intervention of his teammate Lewis Jetta​ to spark any public action.


Booing will remain part of the game, but the AFL cannot afford to let booing as racial hate continue unabated. Issues of justice, player safety and legacy are at stake. Instead the AFL needs to work with clubs, Indigenous leaders and communities and footy barrackers for reconciliation that goes beyond talking about how wonderful the AFL is and creates pathways for conversation, understanding and change.


Already the Western Bulldogs have called on members to sign and follow a Be Loud, Be Fair pledge to never abuse, degrade or disparage others. More is still needed. All fans need to understand the import of their actions, and the hurt and damage that any forms of racist abuse causes.


The time has come for the AFL to once again walk the talk against racism.


Matthew Klugman, from Victoria University, and Gary Osmond, from the University of Queensland, are the authors of Black and Proud: The Story of An Iconic AFL Photo, which won the 2015 Multicultural NSW Award in the NSW Premier's Literary Awards.

[LostDoggy]

That sinking feeling when you want to weigh in on the debate and try to educate people whose opinions and thoughts on the game you generally respect and admire, but you know it's just a waste of time — they've made up their minds that they aren't racist, cannot be racist, so go get stuffed and shut up — so you delete it and get back to work.

Gee I hope Adam Goodes has more energy in him to keep up the fight.

[Sedat]

Ironically, the people that started ramping up the booing in the first place, Hawthorn supporters, are probably the supporter group that I have some semblance of empathy for - they could justifiably point to 2-3 cheap-shots from Goodes' knees on Hawthorn players in the last few seasons (which were dirty actions, although Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis have since paid those cheapies back with interest). But even then, how long does the booing really need to last for? Surely the statute of limitations has expired by now, and payback on GF day last year was as complete and humiliating as you can get. Maybe Hawk supporters hate him so much because Goodes was a match-winner on one leg in the 2012 GF. To that I say enjoy your 12 flags in 50 years and now it's time to STFU.

For everyone else who say they are booing Goodes based on his treatment of the 13yo Collingwood supporter and his Australia Day speech, that is (no matter how well-intentioned) booing him based on his race. He stood up to being called an ape (some say it was heavy-handed but Goodes was the person wronged in that instance and had the right to deal with the issue whatever way he liked), and his Australian of the year comments were a basic human right that he had every right to convey (and it is hard to argue with much of the content to be honest). I don't think people who boo him based on these two issues is necessarily a racist, but by booing him for these two issues they only succeed in legitimising the real racists out there booing Goodes because he is black and outspoken, of which I'm sure there is a decent chunk of people doing the booing.

I am completely ambivalent to Goodes as a footballer and person. But I recognise his basic right to stick up for his race. I do agree wholeheartedly with Greystache in that the polar extremes of the argument are being given far too much oxygen and stifling any chance for positive discussion on the topic. The media wouldn't mind that one bit as they are adding petrol to the story and giving it another few weeks of airtime.

And where was the principles of the AFL in all of this 3 months ago? They are just a bunch of grubby opportunists who have leaped onto a cause that they should have led with - if Lewis Jetta did not let his actions do the talking on the weekend, this issue would have not caught like wildfire this week. Speaking of the AFL, where is their condemnation of the female footy fan who was smacked in the crowd at the Dogs-Pies match on Sunday? Or is violence against women only paid lip-service by the AFL? The AFL really are a grubby organisation devoid of principles and genuine leadership.

[bornadog]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/2400_zpselizqgxh.jpg

link (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/29/why-do-you-boo-adam-goodes-is-it-because-?CMP=soc_568)

[Murphy'sLore]

That could possibly be First Dog's best work ever.

[GVGjr]

I think the problem is people are just booing him because everyone else is, the majority dont even know why they are doing it. Herd mentality.

I dont think anyone here is saying if you boo him you're a racist.

I asked that very question after the GWS fans booed him because they really had no good reason to do so.

I don't believe booing him is racially motivated by the vast majority but the booing has somehow become a Mexican wave group type response.

[AndrewP6]

To the extent this is now happening to Adam Goodes it's clearly a form of bullying and as such the freedom for people to 'express themselves as they see fit' is now at best highly questionable. And as a side note very few people would have the fortitude to boo him to his face so it's really not an issue of expressing themselves as they see fit, more it's just about the freedom of doing it at a safe distance.

The same could be said for expressing any form of disapproval in the sporting arena. If the yardstick was "Only make comment/boo/cheer if you'd be willing to do it to the person's face" then arenas would have to be silent. As for the bullying thing, I may just be old school, but I think that's a bit rich. I know it isn't just your argument though. Agree to disagree.

[AndrewP6]

. I have lost count of the number of times I've now heard it suggested that he should apologise to the 13 year old who shouted out the 'ape' comment. HE should apologise? Talk about blaming the victim. Congratulations, we have managed to turn this incident around 180 degrees and it's now all Goodes' fault he was abused. Baffling.

He took umbrage at a comment made by a 13 year old child, and his chosen response was to have her ejected from the stadium and publicly humiliated in front of thousands, and countless others through the resultant media coverage. I had massive problems with that then, and I do now. The way he dealt with that incident was completely inappropriate, IMO.

[AndrewP6]

Could you honestly say hand on heart that there isn't a skerrick of racism in some re. goodes

In some, I'm sure there is. My objection is more the fact that the assumption is madepeople seem to be able to read other's minds regarding their motives. Therefore thousands (or millions) are tarred with the same brush, which is very unfair. We are told "It's racism". That, I strongly object to. I don't like Goodes; that does not make me racist.

[Bulldog4life]

I must be in the minority as I like Adam and admire him for his convictions

[Rocco Jones]

I must be in the minority as I like Adam and admire him for his convictions

Something about the majority advising the minority about the best way to react when racially vilified...anyways, it is a footy forum so I will stop there.

[Remi Moses]

In some, I'm sure there is. My objection is more the fact that the assumption is madepeople seem to be able to read other's minds regarding their motives. Therefore thousands (or millions) are tarred with the same brush, which is very unfair. We are told "It's racism". That, I strongly object to. I don't like Goodes; that does not make me racist.

No there not . The general consensus is that it's a myriad of reasons, and if a few have racial undertones ,it's a few to many .
How on earth would he know the age of the girl? He pointed out someone who made an insulting racial slur, and had no control on channel 7's saturation of the moment. He met the young girl the next day, and if she never says or knows how much that comment hurt, then it's a great learning experience .

[Remi Moses]

He took umbrage at a comment made by a 13 year old child, and his chosen response was to have her ejected from the stadium and publicly humiliated in front of thousands, and countless others through the resultant media coverage. I had massive problems with that then, and I do now. The way he dealt with that incident was completely inappropriate, IMO.

He pointed the girl out .
Don't rewrite history

[AndrewP6]

He pointed the girl out .
Don't rewrite history

Pardon? He pointed her out to security. In front of thousands present, and by virtue of the media present, countless others. She was 13 years old. What part of that isn't true?

[AndrewP6]

How on earth would he know the age of the girl? He pointed out someone who made an insulting racial slur, and had no control on channel 7's saturation of the moment. He met the young girl the next day, and if she never says or knows how much that comment hurt, then it's a great learning experience .

He said he believed she was 14, so he obviously had a pretty good idea. He knew it wasn't just 'someone', but a child.
Learning by humiliation...an abhorrent approach.

[GVGjr]

He said he believed she was 14, so he obviously had a pretty good idea. He knew it wasn't just 'someone', but a child.
Learning by humiliation...an abhorrent approach.

Aren't the people booing Goodes trying to humiliate him because they don't agree with some of the things he has done or said?
And they are doing it every time he goes near the ball, every game he plays and have done so for an extended period.

To me people are trying to latch on to some isolated and spur of the moment actions by Goodes as a way of justifying their own behaviour.

The club has it right, be loud, be fair.

[chef]

He pointed the girl out .
Don't rewrite history

And he did the right thing.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Let's simplify it down to this because there are so many opinions out there it's dizzying.

In you heart of hearts......... Even if you think you have a right to do it, or a reason to do it..........

It has now gone beyond a bit of fun at the football.

Is it right to keep booing Adam Goodes every time he goes near the ball. Booing him so much he quits playing AFL.

Yes or no.

I say no.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Pardon? He pointed her out to security. In front of thousands present, and by virtue of the media present, countless others. She was 13 years old. What part of that isn't true?

This is just classic. The victim complained the wrong way about the wrong person. Is she allowed to call him an ape?

[AndrewP6]

This is just classic. The victim complained the wrong way about the wrong person. Is she allowed to call him an ape?

Don't know what's classic about the public humiliation of a child by an adult, but anyway... No, she did the wrong thing. But (and I will say this until I'm blue in the face) SHE WAS 13. And yes, it matters.

[jeemak]

I'm loving how conservatives (borderline neo-con) like Miranda Devine and Allan Jones are concerned about the well being of hard done by children all of a sudden.

I suppose as long as they don't come here by boat...............

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[azabob]

N
It's all gone way over the top .. Who started this it's racist stuff? The media because they wanted to make a story and now they are saying it's wrong.
The media put it in goodes head it was racist, he jumped on it.
Now the public just boo because it makes headlines.
If the AFL, the media and Goodes ignored it , it would have disappeared by now, now they blow it up even bigger.
It's a game it's the way supporters vent, years ago you called players, umpires female and male anatomical parts.
Umpires get booed all the time Razor Ray has copped more than Goodes in a game than goodes has all his life.
Just play footy and let it be. Boo is not racist !

It did die down for a few weeks until this weekend. That's why it re-surfaced.

[bulldogtragic]

There needs to be a line.

To the people who don't like him, they have booed. They wanted to let Goodes know they didn't like him. Well now Goodes has now come out and acknowledged the fact you don't like him. You made your point, your point has not only been received but impacted him. There is nothing left to achieve in booing now.

So now... To me it's like when you're arguing with a pissed moron when you concede they have made their point, but they still slur and argue like despite a clear acknowledgement their point was made. Even if you concede they're right, they still slur on. They make no sense, what they're going on about makes no sense and whatever invalid point they wanted to make gets lost. They look stupid, have a mental impairment (by intoxicant) and are annoying in the extreme and generally people don't want to be around them. Put down the grog, enjoy the party and focus on happiness.

[Topdog]

Australians generally love to do something they are told not to do. I honestly can't believe this hasn't been thought about by Goodes and the AFL.

Every time fans were told not to boo it has gotten louder. It died down a bit when he was the sub and there was then no media coverage about it.

Now that fans know it is getting to him and affecting play I actually expect it will increase.

[Dry Rot]

Things are getting whacky - now a call for Goodes to be deported


A former A-League keeper and soccer commentator has called for Adam Goodes to be "deported" over the booing controversy.
Griffin McMaster, a former Brisbane Roar and Wellington Phoenix keeper currently playing for Heidelberg United in the Victorian league, attacked the former Australian of the Year on Twitter – before promptly deleting the tweet.




http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/griffin-mcmaster-calls-for-adam-goodes-to-be-deported-20150729-gin60a.html

[jeemak]

Things are getting whacky - now a call for Goodes to be deported



http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/griffin-mcmaster-calls-for-adam-goodes-to-be-deported-20150729-gin60a.html

I saw that, and had a great chuckle.

[bulldogtragic]

Australians generally love to do something they are told not to do. I honestly can't believe this hasn't been thought about by Goodes and the AFL.

Every time fans were told not to boo it has gotten louder. It died down a bit when he was the sub and there was then no media coverage about it.

Now that fans know it is getting to him and affecting play I actually expect it will increase.

Robbo said this the other night on 360. I think he/you are right that some have used this as fuel to the fire. But the dude is tapping out which is why this just should be the end. I hope it ends, if even from a selfish reason of wanting to watch footy shows talk about footy and not crowd behaviour.

[Topdog]

LOL thats fairly stupid. Similar to Dawns comments earlier about Tomic.

[Sedat]

Complete with the Wayne Carey patented "if I have offended anybody" faux-apology.

[Remi Moses]

Pardon? He pointed her out to security. In front of thousands present, and by virtue of the media present, countless others. She was 13 years old. What part of that isn't true?

So the group of people she was with wouldn't realise the ramifications of calling someone an ape?
I think you're underestimating what young people know and don't know.

[AndrewP6]

Wow. That guy is all sorts of crazy. Actually, reminds me a bit of Brodie Moles, whose Twitter feed gives new meaning to "offensive".

[Remi Moses]

I saw that, and had a great chuckle.

Sadly these are the sort of people who entered the debate .
Plus that vile Alan Jones .
Unfortunately whether some like it or not, the rabble have joined in the chorus

[Topdog]

Robbo said this the other night on 360. I think he/you are right that some have used this as fuel to the fire. But the dude is tapping out which is why this just should be the end. I hope it ends, if even from a selfish reason of wanting to watch footy shows talk about footy and not crowd behaviour.

oh didn't know that. In that case I retract my statement and wish to not be associated with it anymore :)

[AndrewP6]

So the group of people she was with wouldn't realise the ramifications of calling someone an ape?
I think you're underestimating what young people know and don't know.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not going over this again.

[bulldogtragic]

Alright, me again. Let's not go over old ground. Let we group of footy tragics be role models for the rest of the other footy fans. We can all see the past from any viewpoint, and interpret it accordingly. But the guy losing his career is a punishment far worse than any imputed offence he has alleged to have committed. Imagine if he (heaven forbid) physically hurt himself, suffered a serious mental illness or even self harmed. Then imagine hearing that news and that it was due to booing you did or did nothing to stop, which he is saying. If you can justify involvement in that personal crisis because of your right to boo, then you might want to consider your motivation in life more generally. Thinking in terms of wrong or right has underpinned every human conflict, and this isn't about it anymore. Perhaps think about whether booing a guy mentally struggling with it in terms such as good/helpful or bad/unhelpful. This issue is now about the future, not the past.

[Dry Rot]

By way of comparison, what were other teams' crowds' behaviour like towards Libba snr in the second half of his career?

[1eyedog]

Anyway back to the footy... Who are we playing again this weekend?

[bulldogtragic]

Anyway back to the footy... Who are we playing again this weekend?

The WADA All Stars.

[Dry Rot]

Anyway back to the footy... Who are we playing again this weekend?

Good that you raise that, as Goodes isn't playing and there's a new villain to boo on grounds around Australia after last weekend.

I've been watching and following AFL since 1998, and I've never seen such a violent nudge to the back as Macrae gave Maynard. He could have given Maynard indigestion with that violent blow!

Macrae will be booed around Australia for the rest of the season now.

[1eyedog]

Feel dirty just thinking about taking the 4 pts off them. The umpires must be thinking its Christmas with all the heat going on Adam. I'll just keep booing them.

[Scraggers]

I will not boo Goodes for running onto the field;
I will not boo Goodes for a 'war dance' directed at the crowd;
I will not boo Goodes for pointing at a racist (whatever age) in the crowd or on the field;

BUT ...

I will boo if he or any other player (regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation) hits a Bulldog behind the play !!
I will boo if he or any other player (regardless or race, creed or sexual orientation) deliberately sling tackles or tackles feet/knee first !!

If I do boo Goodes or another player, it is not based on their race; it is not based on religion; it is not based on their sexual orientation. And it is most definitely not based on their playing history (although I still do hold a grudge towards Reiwoldt diving in the prelim). It is solely based on their actions on the field on that day.

To say that all booing is racist is just so wrong ... I have no doubt that their were a number (in fact a majority) who have booed Goodes for his previous on-field behaviour and for standing up for his culture ... THIS IS WRONG !!

As many have said on here, our club has it soooooo right ... Be Loud Be Fair.

[FrediKanoute]

Booing is not racist.....well if the English boo the aussies in the cricket that probably is racist.......

I think he is a major sook....who needs to pull his head in and get on with it....something like sticks and stones

[hujsh]

I will not boo Goodes for running onto the field;
I will not boo Goodes for a 'war dance' directed at the crowd;
I will not boo Goodes for pointing at a racist (whatever age) in the crowd or on the field;

BUT ...

I will boo if he or any other player (regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation) hits a Bulldog behind the play !!
I will boo if he or any other player (regardless or race, creed or sexual orientation) deliberately sling tackles or tackles feet/knee first !!

If I do boo Goodes or another player, it is not based on their race; it is not based on religion; it is not based on their sexual orientation. And it is most definitely not based on their playing history (although I still do hold a grudge towards Reiwoldt diving in the prelim). It is solely based on their actions on the field on that day.

To say that all booing is racist is just so wrong ... I have no doubt that their were a number (in fact a majority) who have booed Goodes for his previous on-field behaviour and for standing up for his culture ... THIS IS WRONG !!

As many have said on here, our club has it soooooo right ... Be Loud Be Fair.

I doubt that's the argument anyone has actually made. It's really only a strawman. (Not disagreeing with the rest of your post BTW)

[Topdog]

I doubt that's the argument anyone has actually made. It's really only a strawman. (Not disagreeing with the rest of your post BTW)

It's pretty much a direct quote of the Sydney president, someone in the AFL and many in the media

[bornadog]

Endless articles, but this one from Bob.


Bob Murphy: Booing directed at Adam Goodes makes me hang my head in despair
Link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bob-murphy-booing-directed-at-adam-goodes-makes-me-hang-my-head-in-despair-20150730-ginnob.html#ixzz3hL8vk1CO)

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/adam-goodes-is-playing-the-victim-jason-akermanis-20150730-gini39.html

No surprise that those desperate for attention are clamouring to voice their ill-informed opinions on the subject.

[Throughandthrough]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/adam-goodes-is-playing-the-victim-jason-akermanis-20150730-gini39.html

No surprise that those desperate for attention are clamouring to voice their ill-informed opinions on the subject.


I note that no journalists were brave enough to put their name on that dribble

[Murphy'sLore]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/adam-goodes-is-playing-the-victim-jason-akermanis-20150730-gini39.html

No surprise that those desperate for attention are clamouring to voice their ill-informed opinions on the subject.

I'm sorry that I clicked on that and gave it the traffic that it doesn't deserve.

[bornadog]

Bulldogs to wear Indigenous jumper on Sunday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLIcw2xUsAATFRU.jpg

[Happy Days]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/adam-goodes-is-playing-the-victim-jason-akermanis-20150730-gini39.html

No surprise that those desperate for attention are clamouring to voice their ill-informed opinions on the subject.

No shit he's playing the victim - he IS the victim.

To quote Ralph Wiggum - "I can't believe I used to go out with you"

[Bulldog4life]

Who would the average "intelligent" fan listen to Bob or Aker? Trouble is they are not all intelligent I know that. Hopefully those bulldog supporters who have booed Goodesy will read Bob's words and take notice....although I doubt it.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Bulldogs to wear Indigenous jumper on Sunday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLIcw2xUsAATFRU.jpg

great

[chef]

Bulldogs to wear Indigenous jumper on Sunday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLIcw2xUsAATFRU.jpg
Great stuff

[The bulldog tragician]

Just some further food for thought: Adam Goodes' brother is on our list. I believe I have also read that Adam has bought a Bulldogs membership. I'm proud that our club through the Be Loud Be Fair campaign, Bob's article, Jordan Roughead's interview and now wearing the indigenous Guernsey are showing leadership.

Adam Goodes has occasionally not played the game as I think it should be played, but I could cite dozens of others for whom this is the case. Counter balancing that is that he has made us all think about race issues. Sport is virtually the only forum through many of us even come into contact with an indigenous person and unfortunately is one of the very few spaces in which an Indigenous person can be adulated and respected. Goodes has also spoken out about family violence and is a White Ribbon ambassador.

Racism isn't always deliberate and conscious, and I'm sure many of those that boo genuinely think there's no racial factor. It's called casual racism and is the sort of unthinking reflex what made even the supposedly enlightened Eddie McGuire come out with his unbelievable 'King Kong' comments.

As as for him pointing out the girl who vilified him, he had a split second to do so. The next day he expressed concern for her well being and asked the media not to hound her.

How sad that so soon after we saw some of the best that footy crowds and communities can do in the respect shown to Phil Walsh and his family that we are seeing this ugliness.

[GVGjr]

Guys there has been some good discussions on this thread but we have decided to close it down tomorrow. I don't think we are going to be able to bring anything new to the discussion and every one has had a good chance to get their point of view over.
It's time to get back onto this weeks games.

[chef]

https://youtu.be/vydY1UmWzAM?list=PLHtmnSh--OZzIPtMKU-JpDbVwPCQCxhbj

[Throughandthrough]

My humble opinion. If you think that you aren't being racist, but realise that other people would feel that your actions are being racist, then maybe stop doing it.

[Scorlibo]

Guys there has been some good discussions on this thread but we have decided to close it down tomorrow. I don't think we are going to be able to bring anything new to the discussion and every one has had a good chance to get their point of view over.
It's time to get back onto this weeks games.

That's your prerogative, and I understand that it's with the interests of those who could be greatly offended by what could be said in mind that you're choosing to close the thread. Personally, I reckon the same interests are better served by continued discussion - because 200+ years of silence is silence enough.

[Before I Die]

Guys there has been some good discussions on this thread but we have decided to close it down tomorrow. I don't think we are going to be able to bring anything new to the discussion and every one has had a good chance to get their point of view over.
It's time to get back onto this weeks games.
This week's game involves our team wearing their indigenous jumpers to show their disgust at the racist 'Booing of Adam Goodes'. Our team are not closing down this thread (Booing Adam Goodes), they are putting it back on the front page and making it the central issue of this week's game. I thought discussing this week's game was one of the main things we did on WOOF.

I know your intentions are honourable, but closing down this thread is the wrong thing to do. Woofers don't have to read it. Woofers don't have to post or respond. But don't tell us this is a non-footy issue, or an issue which is not relevant to the Western Bulldogs, or a non-issue. This is not a case of 'nothing to see here, move on'.

[chef]

I dont see why it needs to be closed.

[Twodogs]

If we could move the discussion on from blame to solutions? I have read some but the next step must be solving the problem.

A cheer for Goodes when he gets the ball is something I heard on talkback. It's grass roots and effective.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Just some further food for thought: Adam Goodes' brother is on our list. I believe I have also read that Adam has bought a Bulldogs membership. I'm proud that our club through the Be Loud Be Fair campaign, Bob's article, Jordan Roughead's interview and now wearing the indigenous Guernsey are showing leadership.

Adam Goodes has occasionally not played the game as I think it should be played, but I could cite dozens of others for whom this is the case. Counter balancing that is that he has made us all think about race issues. Sport is virtually the only forum through many of us even come into contact with an indigenous person and unfortunately is one of the very few spaces in which an Indigenous person can be adulated and respected. Goodes has also spoken out about family violence and is a White Ribbon ambassador.

Racism isn't always deliberate and conscious, and I'm sure many of those that boo genuinely think there's no racial factor. It's called casual racism and is the sort of unthinking reflex what made even the supposedly enlightened Eddie McGuire come out with his unbelievable 'King Kong' comments.

As as for him pointing out the girl who vilified him, he had a split second to do so. The next day he expressed concern for her well being and asked the media not to hound her.

How sad that so soon after we saw some of the best that footy crowds and communities can do in the respect shown to Phil Walsh and his family that we are seeing this ugliness.

Superb post.

[Before I Die]

If we could move the discussion on from blame to solutions? I have read some but the next step must be solving the problem.

A cheer for Goodes when he gets the ball is something I heard on talkback. It's grass roots and effective.

Hip Hip Hooray

for Adam Goodes

from Before I Die and like minded Woofers

Like this post if you want to join in the cheer

[FrediKanoute]

[I]Racism isn't always deliberate and conscious, and I'm sure many of those that boo genuinely think there's no racial factor. It's called casual racism and is the sort of unthinking reflex what made even the supposedly enlightened Eddie McGuire come out with his unbelievable 'King Kong' comments.

Sorry but I take issue with this concept of casual racism and the linking of booing to casual racism. In fact I find it insulting that fans expressing their dislike/displeasure can be construed as racist just because the person the boos are centred on happens to be indigenous. That is neither helpful to the indigenous community and actually wrongfully tagging football fans with a pretty awful brush.

Just why are fans booing Goodes? Yes there are a minority who have been identified who are making racist remarks, but these are actual words or gestures that have a clear racist tone. Booing is not racist and Goodes being indigenous does not make it racist. So again I ask the question why do players get booed? Most get booed because of some action on/off the field that they have done - probably doesn't relate to this case; Players get booed for moving teams (see N Brown and R griffin) - again not applicable; Players get booed because they are really good and opposition teams dislike just how good they are - probably partly applicable in this case.

In my mind the real reason that Goodes I getting booed is because he has reacted to being booed. He is being collectively sledged by opposition fans (rightly or wrongly) because everyone can see that it is affecting his performance. Is this racist? Is it casually racist? is it fair? No, its the reality of being a sports person/entertainer. That is what happens you get booed. the choice is how you react to this.

Taking a greater good argument - restricting a fan's rights to express how they feel about a person or performance is censorship. Its a restriction on the freedom of expression. We tolerate certain limitations (ie racist), but asking people to stop booing is a joke. We should all get out there and just boo because its about the only opportunity most of us have to show how much we appreciate or dislike what is being served up.

[1eyedog]

Sorry wrong thread

[Before I Die]

[QUOTE=FrediKanoute;451026]
In my mind the real reason that Goodes I getting booed is because he has reacted to being booed. He is being collectively sledged by opposition fans (rightly or wrongly) because everyone can see that it is affecting his performance. Is this racist? Is it casually racist? is it fair? No, its the reality of being a sports person/entertainer. That is what happens you get booed. the choice is how you react to this.
QUOTE]

Hi Fredi,

I am sure you have your reasons for believing this.

I have asked myself the following questions:

Is the level of booing Goodes is receiving excessive to that any player has previously receieved?

Has he reacted more strongly to the booing than any player before him?

Is he the dirtiest player to have ever played the game?

Is he guilty of more heinous crimes off the field than any other player before him?

Is he an indigenous Australian who was awarded the honour of Australian of the Year and then used that public platform to denounce racism in modern Australia and place a question mark over Australia Day celebrations.

Has his contiuned public criticism of both overt and casual racism in Australia brought discomfort to many Australians who don't like to see themselves portrayed as racist?

My conclusion is that the booing is racist, though the majority doing the booing would not actually realise this, and certainly wouldn't acknowledge it. In fact, they would probably be quite annoyed by the very suggestion, in the same way that they were annoyed by a black man who, given the honour of being named Australian of the Year, had the temerity to use that forum to question the veracity of their Australia Day. Heck, how un-Australian. Who the hell does he think he is?

[Ghost Dog]

[QUOTE=FrediKanoute;451026]
In my mind the real reason that Goodes I getting booed is because he has reacted to being booed. He is being collectively sledged by opposition fans (rightly or wrongly) because everyone can see that it is affecting his performance. Is this racist? Is it casually racist? is it fair? No, its the reality of being a sports person/entertainer. That is what happens you get booed. the choice is how you react to this.
QUOTE]

Hi Fredi,

I am sure you have your reasons for believing this.

I have asked myself the following questions:

Is the level of booing Goodes is receiving excessive to that any player has previously receieved?

Has he reacted more strongly to the booing than any player before him?

Is he the dirtiest player to have ever played the game?

Is he guilty of more heinous crimes off the field than any other player before him?

Is he an indigenous Australian who was awarded the honour of Australian of the Year and then used that public platform to denounce racism in modern Australia and place a question mark over Australia Day celebrations.

Has his contiuned public criticism of both overt and casual racism in Australia brought discomfort to many Australians who don't like to see themselves portrayed as racist?

My conclusion is that the booing is racist, though the majority doing the booing would not actually realise this, and certainly wouldn't acknowledge it. In fact, they would probably be quite annoyed by the very suggestion, in the same way that they were annoyed by a black man who, given the honour of being named Australian of the Year, had the temerity to use that forum to question the veracity of their Australia Day. Heck, how un-Australian. Who the hell does he think he is?

Light a candle, don't curse the darkness. Our club is handling things well I think, with the jumper, and the loud-but-fair campaign.

[Scraggers]

A great article by Dallas Scott. The author of the blog Black Steam Train. Well worth the read.

LINK (http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html?m=1)

[jeemak]

A great article by Dallas Scott. The author of the blog Black Steam Train. Well worth the read.

LINK (http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html?m=1)

A great read.

This is the reasoned and thought out opinion that I've been suggesting is sorely lacking from the debate.

As everything any commentator has said on this topic this shouldn't be used to confirm a finalisation of it, rather, a valuable tool in attempting to navigate through it.

Thanks for posting.

[FrediKanoute]

[QUOTE=FrediKanoute;451026]
In my mind the real reason that Goodes I getting booed is because he has reacted to being booed. He is being collectively sledged by opposition fans (rightly or wrongly) because everyone can see that it is affecting his performance. Is this racist? Is it casually racist? is it fair? No, its the reality of being a sports person/entertainer. That is what happens you get booed. the choice is how you react to this.
QUOTE]

Hi Fredi,

I am sure you have your reasons for believing this.

I have asked myself the following questions:

Is the level of booing Goodes is receiving excessive to that any player has previously receieved?

Has he reacted more strongly to the booing than any player before him?

Is he the dirtiest player to have ever played the game?

Is he guilty of more heinous crimes off the field than any other player before him?

Is he an indigenous Australian who was awarded the honour of Australian of the Year and then used that public platform to denounce racism in modern Australia and place a question mark over Australia Day celebrations.

Has his contiuned public criticism of both overt and casual racism in Australia brought discomfort to many Australians who don't like to see themselves portrayed as racist?

My conclusion is that the booing is racist, though the majority doing the booing would not actually realise this, and certainly wouldn't acknowledge it. In fact, they would probably be quite annoyed by the very suggestion, in the same way that they were annoyed by a black man who, given the honour of being named Australian of the Year, had the temerity to use that forum to question the veracity of their Australia Day. Heck, how un-Australian. Who the hell does he think he is?

Don't people have the right to express displeasure with a black man who received an Australian honour and then belittled it? personally I don't care one way or the other (and in fact until you mentioned it didn't even know he had done this). If he had the courage to stand up publically and make a statement potentially seen as unpopular in regards Australia Day, its a little rich to then be annoyed/upset by the public's assessment of that comment. I fail to see how this reaction is racist.

What I am annoyed about is how the racist tag is being used to restrict a public expression of opinion.

[FrediKanoute]

A great article by Dallas Scott. The author of the blog Black Steam Train. Well worth the read.

LINK (http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html?m=1)

Agreed, a great read.

[jeemak]

You might also enjoy this FK:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-angry-about-the-adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-you-might-like-to-check-your-facts/story-fndv7pj3-1227463277546

[jeemak]

I'm loving how conservatives (borderline neo-con) like Miranda Devine and Allan Jones are concerned about the well being of hard done by children all of a sudden.

I suppose as long as they don't come here by boat...............

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Now we have the holy trinity of awesomeness completed:

http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/goodes-should-admit-he-is-wrong-bolt-20150730-gioa1o.html

[FrediKanoute]

[QUOTE=FrediKanoute;451041]

You might also enjoy this FK:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-angry-about-the-adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-you-might-like-to-check-your-facts/story-fndv7pj3-1227463277546

Thanks - so he didn't criticise the country or Australia day in his acceptance speech. OK so why is he being booed?

[jeemak]

[QUOTE=jeemak;451045]

Thanks - so he didn't criticise the country or Australia day in his acceptance speech. OK so why is he being booed?

In honesty, it's much worse than simple or basic racism. It's because we're mindless, and we are without help.

Collectively we are a bunch of morons that thirst for simple villains and good guys to fit within the construct of existence as we see it, with the only difference between us being our base preferences towards how we view what is happening before us.

Our prejudices are equal. We build up walls around ourselves and those that share our views, and we continually feed ourselves with information that reaffirms them.

Adam Goodes and this issue is simply a manifestation of this.

If out of this mindless behaviour we can actually progress our society when it comes to the betterment of minorities that live within it, then great. However, this debate in its current form is beyond salvation.

[westdog54]

Thanks - so he didn't criticise the country or Australia day in his acceptance speech. OK so why is he being booed?

Apparently, because "he's a flog".

[Ozza]

[QUOTE=Before I Die;451033]

Don't people have the right to express displeasure with a black man who received an Australian honour and then belittled it? personally I don't care one way or the other (and in fact until you mentioned it didn't even know he had done this). If he had the courage to stand up publically and make a statement potentially seen as unpopular in regards Australia Day, its a little rich to then be annoyed/upset by the public's assessment of that comment. I fail to see how this reaction is racist.

What I am annoyed about is how the racist tag is being used to restrict a public expression of opinion.

I'm not sure you have read the actual transcript of what Goodes actually said in his AOTY acceptance speech if you think he belittled it.

The likes of Andrew Bolt have a lot to answer for with respect to their paraphrasing and mis-characterisation of his speech.

[bornadog]

In honesty, it's much worse than simple or basic racism. It's because we're mindless, and we are without help.

Collectively we are a bunch of morons that thirst for simple villains and good guys to fit within the construct of existence as we see it, with the only difference between us being our base preferences towards how we view what is happening before us.

Our prejudices are equal. We build up walls around ourselves and those that share our views, and we continually feed ourselves with information that reaffirms them.

Adam Goodes and this issue is simply a manifestation of this.

If out of this mindless behaviour we can actually progress our society when it comes to the betterment of minorities that live within it, then great. However, this debate in its current form is beyond salvation.

You do your best work at 2am. Nicely said.

[Happy Days]

Now we have the holy trinity of awesomeness completed:

http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/goodes-should-admit-he-is-wrong-bolt-20150730-gioa1o.html

That lede is one of the funnier things I've read.

[Ghost Dog]

A great article by Dallas Scott. The author of the blog Black Steam Train. Well worth the read.

LINK (http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html?m=1)

Wow that is a great blog and excellent writing. This is why I hope this thread is not closed down, because that article just change my opinion about a few things. I can see his point about the cheap commodification of culture. And I'm now a little wary that the indigenous jumper thing is maybe not such a good idea.

[1eyedog]

In honesty, it's much worse than simple or basic racism. It's because we're mindless, and we are without help.

Collectively we are a bunch of morons that thirst for simple villains and good guys to fit within the construct of existence as we see it, with the only difference between us being our base preferences towards how we view what is happening before us.

Our prejudices are equal. We build up walls around ourselves and those that share our views, and we continually feed ourselves with information that reaffirms them.

Adam Goodes and this issue is simply a manifestation of this.

If out of this mindless behaviour we can actually progress our society when it comes to the betterment of minorities that live within it, then great. However, this debate in its current form is beyond salvation.


Jeemak this is highly philosophical and has direct implications for the evolution (or lack thereof) of cognitive thought. Perhaps, when we descended the trees onto the African Savannah we ate the wrong meat. Assuming of course you buy into the Out of Africa paradigm.

I loved your post, it's so very true and it makes me question why are we even thinking at all. Perhaps we would have been better off staying in the trees.

[jeemak]

Jeemak this is highly philosophical and has direct implications for the evolution (or lack thereof) of cognitive thought. Perhaps, when we descended the trees onto the African Savannah we eat the wrong meat. Assuming of course you buy into the Out of Africa paradigm.

I loved your post, it's so very true and it makes me question why are we even thinking at all. Perhaps we would have been better off staying in the trees.

Cheers, watching the Australian cricket team self destruct gave me pause to reflected on the concept of mindlessness............

[Dancin' Douggy]

Because people THINK he did without actually listening to his speech.

[EasternWest]

Just some further food for thought: Adam Goodes' brother is on our list. I believe I have also read that Adam has bought a Bulldogs membership. I'm proud that our club through the Be Loud Be Fair campaign, Bob's article, Jordan Roughead's interview and now wearing the indigenous Guernsey are showing leadership.

Adam Goodes has occasionally not played the game as I think it should be played, but I could cite dozens of others for whom this is the case. Counter balancing that is that he has made us all think about race issues. Sport is virtually the only forum through many of us even come into contact with an indigenous person and unfortunately is one of the very few spaces in which an Indigenous person can be adulated and respected. Goodes has also spoken out about family violence and is a White Ribbon ambassador.

Racism isn't always deliberate and conscious, and I'm sure many of those that boo genuinely think there's no racial factor. It's called casual racism and is the sort of unthinking reflex what made even the supposedly enlightened Eddie McGuire come out with his unbelievable 'King Kong' comments.

As as for him pointing out the girl who vilified him, he had a split second to do so. The next day he expressed concern for her well being and asked the media not to hound her.

How sad that so soon after we saw some of the best that footy crowds and communities can do in the respect shown to Phil Walsh and his family that we are seeing this ugliness.

Terrific post. Thanks for sharing it.


Guys there has been some good discussions on this thread but we have decided to close it down tomorrow. I don't think we are going to be able to bring anything new to the discussion and every one has had a good chance to get their point of view over.
It's time to get back onto this weeks games.

I too would like to voice the opinion that this thread shouldn't be closed. It's been a terrific read and the most I've enjoyed following a thread for a long time.

[Bulldog4life]

Now we have the holy trinity of awesomeness completed:

http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/goodes-should-admit-he-is-wrong-bolt-20150730-gioa1o.html

I despise that moron

[bornadog]

I despise that moron

Couldn't agree more

[Twodogs]

Who are you talkng about? I think I know but (so) I don't want to click on the link.

[Bulldog4life]

Who are you talkng about? I think I know but (so) I don't want to click on the link.

Bolt