Gold Coast Suns

[GVGjr]

Given the revelations by Karmichael Hunt it's becoming evident that the the Gold Coast Suns are bringing the the game into disrepute and I'm wondering if sanctions similar to what Essendon were penalised for are now in order?

I've had a gut full of reading article after article of this negative image clubs like Essendon and now the Suns are inflicting on the game and the football public.

Surely a penalty where the Suns lose their first round draft pick is in order? We simply can't have this club bouncing back into the finals in the next two or three seasons.

Thoughts?

[Throughandthrough]

I've been wondering if all the news coming out helps explain the sacking of their last Coach?

[GVGjr]

I've been wondering if all the news coming out helps explain the sacking of their last Coach?


It might but what I'm asking is more around if the Suns should be investigated in a similar manner to Essendon and penalised accordingly?

[bulldogtragic]

It's embarrassing for our game, no doubt. It's embarrassing that the AFL simply asked the Suns to investigate and that was simply asking the players if they'd like to hand themselves in with no evidence. And everyone s happy with that, assuming KH was not going to sing like a canary. Which he then did.

The problem is the AFL effectively is The Suns, in the sense that AFL sanctions could kill the chance for the team to succeed which may render the $1000,000,000 investment a waste and be down a team for the TV rights deal. But I honestly fear this is going to happen. Being gifted GAJ, a team of first rounders and Jaeger and Martin - success by now was meant to be pushing top 6 or higher and they're facing a spoon... A spoon. Brisbane was gifted a dynasty through the merger and a few lean years turned away crowds, which led to recruiting to bring in names (ie Fevola) which cut the culture which then saw an average coach dismissed horrible and years of first rounders walk out at once, and who are now contending for the spoon too. This is what happens so far as a pattern in Qld and if this engulfs the Suns and players walk, and players are sacked or penalised another top picked (to be used on a skinny flanker) then it might be adding fuel to the fire.

Don't get me wrong, I completely and utterly agree with you G. I just think it's so incestuous and the AFL is completely compromised that I just can't see them taking strong leadership here. If those at the AFL who staked their careers in the Suns are still there, then they will want to see them in finals asap irrespective of this saga, even if it means solid citizens like us will find it harder.

[bornadog]

AFL to help Gold Coast with Karmichael Hunt investigation (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-29/afl-to-help-gold-coast-with-karmichael-hunt-investigation)
If there is a culture of drugs then penalties should be against the players but I can't see the club should be penalised unless they knew about it

[GVGjr]

Thanks BT, I get why the AFL have an interest of making the Suns a viable side but I think the seriousness of this issue means they might have to handicap them for at least a year or two. It would not sit well with me to see the Suns secure the number one pick in the next draft because of their mismanagement.

Carlton and the Crows have lost draft picks for salary cap rorts. Essendon for their poorly managed supplements programme. I can't see why the Suns shouldn't also receive similar sanction.

Would many parents be happy to see their young sons drafted by the Suns at the moment?

[GVGjr]

AFL to help Gold Coast with Karmichael Hunt investigation (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-29/afl-to-help-gold-coast-with-karmichael-hunt-investigation)
If there is a culture of drugs then penalties should be against the players but I can't see the club should be penalised unless they knew about it

Earlier in the year they said they reviewed the allegations and were comfortable that there was nothing to see.

[bornadog]

Earlier in the year they said they reviewed the allegations and were comfortable that there was nothing to see.

I know what you are saying but can the club be blamed and then be penalised?

I have pointed it out before, the Suns have serious issues and we know they have only won 5 games in 20 plus rounds of footy. Yes lots of injuries but there seems to be other problems at the club. The drinking, drugs, late nights, team discipline. I bet Rocket is thinking what the hell have I got myself in for.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks BT, I get why the AFL have an interest of making the Suns a viable side but I think the seriousness of this issue means they might have to handicap them for at least a year or two. It would not sit well with me to see the Suns secure the number one pick in the next draft because of their mismanagement.

Carlton and the Crows have lost draft picks for salary cap rorts. Essendon for their poorly managed supplements programme. I can't see why the Suns shouldn't also receive similar sanction.

Would many parents be happy to see their young sons drafted by the Suns at the moment?

No disputing it. But the AFL hasn't shown leadership with Essendon and showed no leadership in determining Melbourne didn't tank, yet fined them $3m and then gave them $5m to bail them out of their fine and assoc mess. All the Adelaide salary cap players have continued their AFL careers without much fuss. The AFL need to be seen to act, which they will with providing investigative assistance, education, advice and support. But penalising their golden goose with draft punishments, I'm not convinced that's it's even possible let alone probable. The AFL tribunal let Essendon off citing a lack of evidence. I can guarantee that every GCS manager will say they had no idea about anything like this happening. So based on immediate precedent, they can say GCS managers knew nothing and therefore no penalties should apply. The draft pick penalty of 2013 was public pressure with Essendon fussing to management issues not about banned/illegal,substances. They should act I agree.

[GVGjr]

I know what you are saying but can the club be blamed and then be penalised?

I have pointed it out before, the Suns have serious issues and we know they have only won 5 games in 20 plus rounds of footy. Yes lots of injuries but there seems to be other problems at the club. The drinking, drugs, late nights, team discipline. I bet Rocket is thinking what the hell have I got myself in for.

This isn't an isolated incident, there is a culture there and at best the club has been half arsed in acknowledging it let alone trying to fix it. If the AFL doesn't take this seriously they are looking at another West Coast Eagles debacle.

If the club doesn't get on top of it then they must be penalised. There is no other meaningful option

[Twodogs]

It has become a farce. You hear of a divide between the Christians and the party boys, their marquee player won't play for whatever reason and seems to be at odds with the club. They have had bad luck with injuries this year but one win?

GCS played their hundredth game on the weekend. The Brisbane Bears won more games than them in their first 100 than GCS did despite the different club set up. That's how bad it is.

[jeemak]

I think it's great that evidence to save the skin of one super star AFL player has been leaked to ensure he's the complete antithesis of what the AFL were trying to achieve by recruiting him.

AFL players deciding to have a bump or two of Charlie at end of season gigs being a surprise to everyone associated with the AFL is just as delightful to me. Considering some of those that comment on the game prominently have their noses in it just as much as anyone else in society (and you can bet your arse it doesn't stop with them).

GvGjr, the veneer the AFL is trying to protect has been eroded for some time and it's issues like this one that do the most to expose how superficial the competition is at its core. Calling GCS to account isn't going to do anything if it is done by the AFL, and the current legislation governing ASADA powers has proven to be ineffective as well. We as a football public need this type of story to rise to the top in order for us all to see the light and demand REAL change in how the game is governed and managed.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm reading GC have the highest membership fees in the comp. Well folks, trust is like a bit of paper. Once crumpled you can't ever quite flatten it.
These sort of revelations are really damaging for an expansion team. For established clubs, like Essendon, they have rusted on supporters who sentimentalize and project an intense existentialism on their club out of habitand will weather any storm. But for GC, I can see the AFL trying to protect them on this one and that is the last thing that must happen, or else the damage will be long term.

The leaders at GC are in shaky territory because this is coming out of the blue and that's hard to believe. If so, it doesn't speak volumes about their leadership group.
The code switching experiment has a huge cloud over it now.

[jeemak]

I would think these issues go beyond the leaders of the club, and have more to do with the haphazard and denial oriented management of which the AFL is subject to.

This, and everything else we've heard about the GCS club over the past nine months is an endemic trait of an organisation that has overreached to gain a manufactured commercial outcome, within a short period of time. The AFL fell over themselves to introduce the GWS and GCS franchises in order to ensure they had leverage in commercial negotiations and the culture outcome for the first club they introduced is suffering because of that.

The AFL has dropped the ball significantly here. Their PR machine has been caught out massively in lieu of it being the GCS 100 game anniversary in the league, and not being in a position to respond to these claims.

[Remi Moses]

Big issue is sporting organisations on the Gold Coast.
Did we not learn from the Bears ? It wasn't just shitty facilities being the biggest issue.
The transient retirees and holiday makers aren't interested in following a sporting team on the Coast.
The lifestyle is just one massive distraction, and putting together impressionable easily influenced teenagers is a disaster

[Remi Moses]

This isn't an isolated incident, there is a culture there and at best the club has been half arsed in acknowledging it let alone trying to fix it. If the AFL doesn't take this seriously they are looking at another West Coast Eagles debacle.

If the club doesn't get on top of it then they must be penalised. There is no other meaningful option


We all know the AFL is full of double standards .
They won't punish them knowing ( should say thinking) they don't want them struggling .
It's imperative to the bottom line regardless of the off field shannigans that they start winning .
Let's just forget about the whole setting up a decent culture stuff, and how the AFL didn't know any of this was occurring is utter B/S
They're so protective of their brand that they'll sweep anything under the carpet

[LostDoggy]

The players found to be involved will receive a strike under the illicit drug policy, will remain anonymous and that will probably be all she wrote.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't believe that a club sanction is warranted, as the activity revealed by Hunt occurred when the players were operating in private capacity.

Does any believe that drug use is not rampant in the age group and demographic to which these players belong.

A group with excess time and high incomes is universally a recipe for disastrous behaviour.

The 3 strike drug policy is part of the problem, but so is the community acceptance of illicit drug taking.

Certainly Gold Coast Suns need to improve the overall culture for their group, but until there are meaningful sanctions on the players for illicit behaviour, this remains an ongoing problem that can strike at any club.

[Axe Man]

Wonder who the player in question is? Any chance he came from our club?

Gold Coast Suns call for drug policy change amid fears recruits may have had history (http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/gold-coast-suns-call-for-drug-policy-change-amid-fears-recruits-may-have-had-history/story-fndv8hfz-1227420697244)

GOLD Coast have called for an urgent overhaul of the AFL drugs code amid fears they may have recruited players with previous drug history to the club.
Suns officials have heard claims that a player recruited to the club came with existing strikes under the league’s drugs code and may have impacted their fledgling culture.
They have no way of knowing if this is true.
It has been suggested the player was one of those who mixed in the same social circles as Karmichael Hunt in which he claimed cocaine was used in his statement to criminal investigators.
On Monday, the Suns asked the AFL to assist them into an investigation into drug use at the club alleged by Hunt.

CEO Andrew Travis addressed the playing group on Monday night and players will be individually interviewed in the coming days.
Travis shares the view of CEO’s across the league that the drug code needs to be updated.
The CEO’s argue the rules be changed so they are informed of the identity of players after their first strike.
The club’s also argue they cannot sufficiently help players who may be developing problems if they are not made aware of them.
“The policy has been around for some time now and it is due for some sort of refreshment,’’ Travis said.

“Our club has strongly supported the AFL in flagging changes with the Illicit Drugs Policy.”
There is a view the Suns’ attempts to clean up their culture are being hindered by the outdated drug policy that protects the identity of offenders and limits the sanctions available to the club.
The AFL Players Association have been offered the opportunity to have their say in how the investigation would be carried out.
The Suns accept the drug code is the way to deal with drug offences but believe they reserve the right to punish the players under their code of conduct if they continue to deny their involvement and are later proven to be lying.
The Suns’ reputation has taken a battering and the administration looks to be either engaging in a cover-up or completely without control over their playing list with their repeated and strongly worded public denials of any drug problem — a stance formed from their players’ assurances.
But the AFLPA’s stance is that the club has no right to know of a player’s drug use until they have recorded three strikes.
They have also said they would take a dim view of any action that identifies the players — which would essentially rule out any punishment other than a fine.
AFL football operations manager Mark Evans has also declared that if any of Hunt’s claims are true the players would be treated under the drug code.
“We will be interviewing the players and if any information comes up about drug use it will be treated under the illicit drugs policy,’’ he said.
If a player chose to self-report drug use it would count as a strike under the illicit drugs code which carries no penalty and the players’ identity remains secret.

[jeemak]

I really don't see the value in allowing a club to know the identity of a player with a single strike, and I'm not sure whether them knowing of a second strike is a good idea either.

Football clubs (and other institutions) have a habit of marginalising and punishing individuals rather than addressing causes of particular behaviours. The marginalisation and punishment of those who use illicit substances has proven over the last 50 years to be completely ineffective in tackling the drugs issue throughout society, and any step that increases the likelihood of offenders being punished or marginalised is a backward one in my view.

[Bulldog Joe]

I really don't see the value in allowing a club to know the identity of a player with a single strike, and I'm not sure whether them knowing of a second strike is a good idea either.

Football clubs (and other institutions) have a habit of marginalising and punishing individuals rather than addressing causes of particular behaviours. The marginalisation and punishment of those who use illicit substances has proven over the last 50 years to be completely ineffective in tackling the drugs issue throughout society, and any step that increases the likelihood of offenders being punished or marginalised is a backward one in my view.

While I see validity in your post, I ask how do we address the problem when it is allowed to continue without any consequences.

[Happy Days]

I really don't see the value in allowing a club to know the identity of a player with a single strike, and I'm not sure whether them knowing of a second strike is a good idea either.

Football clubs (and other institutions) have a habit of marginalising and punishing individuals rather than addressing causes of particular behaviours. The marginalisation and punishment of those who use illicit substances has proven over the last 50 years to be completely ineffective in tackling the drugs issue throughout society, and any step that increases the likelihood of offenders being punished or marginalised is a backward one in my view.

+1. The drug problem is yet another example of the AFL's complete inability to talk about anything difficult or uncomfortable in a proper manner.

[jeemak]

While I see validity in your post, I ask how do we address the problem when it is allowed to continue without any consequences.

There are consequences.

If someone has a drug problem then they receive treatment after a strike is recorded. If they don't rehabilitate and continue to record strikes then they lose their careers.

If you were to suggest to me that testing should become more frequent and sophisticated then I would be fine with that.

[Bulldog Joe]

There are consequences.

If someone has a drug problem then they receive treatment after a strike is recorded. If they don't rehabilitate and continue to record strikes then they lose their careers.

If you were to suggest to me that testing should become more frequent and sophisticated then I would be fine with that.

There certainly needs to be more frequent testing, but there is the ongoing issue of acceptance of illicit drug taking in wider society.

We all are aware of stories that float around from time to time of behavioural issues across the total player population. I believe the action needs to be stronger.

[jeemak]

There certainly needs to be more frequent testing, but there is the ongoing issue of acceptance of illicit drug taking in wider society.

We all are aware of stories that float around from time to time of behavioural issues across the total player population. I believe the action needs to be stronger.

Some might argue our attitudes towards them need to be liberalised.

[westdog54]

Guys,

Lets not stray too far into Polictical discussions here.

[Ghost Dog]

+1. The drug problem is yet another example of the AFL's complete inability to talk about anything difficult or uncomfortable in a proper manner.

By the way, Avatar of the Month goes to Happy Days, for his 'pride' Jason Akermanis.;)

[GVGjr]

I don't believe that a club sanction is warranted, as the activity revealed by Hunt occurred when the players were operating in private capacity.

Does any believe that drug use is not rampant in the age group and demographic to which these players belong.

A group with excess time and high incomes is universally a recipe for disastrous behaviour.

The 3 strike drug policy is part of the problem, but so is the community acceptance of illicit drug taking.

Certainly Gold Coast Suns need to improve the overall culture for their group, but until there are meaningful sanctions on the players for illicit behaviour, this remains an ongoing problem that can strike at any club.

Travis denied there was an issue almost laughing at the mere suggestion there was a dug issue but now straight after the KMH allegations the GCS are suddenly the victim of an outdated policy.

The highlighted section is why I believe the AFL needs to take a tough stance on the Suns poor performance in managing this.

[westdog54]

Travis denied there was an issue almost laughing at the mere suggestion there was a dug issue but now straight after the KMH allegations the GCS are suddenly the victim of an outdated policy.

The highlighted section is why I believe the AFL needs to take a tough stance on the Suns poor performance in managing this.

Was listening to Damian Barrett, who broke the original story about Karmichael, and was told point blank by Suns management that theyre was no problem, basically a "Nothing to see here" apporach.

He openly used the word "Cover-up" when describing GCS' handling of the saga.

[boydogs]

Unless the club gave them the drugs, charge the players not the club ala Ben Cousins

[The bulldog tragician]

Unless the club gave them the drugs, charge the players not the club ala Ben Cousins

It's an interesting point, that you make, though, because the rampant drug taking of WC nearly cost a player his life, has been described as out of control by Dean Cox, and who knows where Cousins' and Danile Kerr's stories will end - yet it's hard to believe the club was oblivious, and I've always wondered if it was conveniently ignored or tacitly condoned because the club was on the brink of a flag. Maybe the club should have borne more responsibility for the fact that not just one or two wild cards but a large proportion of the group were tainted by the culture ( you could add in Mainwaring and Michael Gardiner to those publicly known to have a 'problem')

[GVGjr]

Unless the club gave them the drugs, charge the players not the club ala Ben Cousins

The clubs of professional sporting environments have a major role to play. They can't just use the excuse that it's just the players fault if they know it's happening under their roof. The club needs to investigate the playing group and sanction players and the AFL needs to hold them to account. Potentially placing sanctions on the club will peak their interest. Travis was grinning like a fool when dismissing the suggestion there was a drugs issue at the club. Perhaps he see's the problem as you do and doesn't want to waste the clubs resources.

[westdog54]

Unless the club gave them the drugs, charge the players not the club ala Ben Cousins

The issue at hand isn't whether the club supplied the drugs, its whether they knew about what was going on but have taken no action.

[jeemak]

It's an interesting point, that you make, though, because the rampant drug taking of WC nearly cost a player his life, has been described as out of control by Dean Cox, and who knows where Cousins' and Danile Kerr's stories will end - yet it's hard to believe the club was oblivious, and I've always wondered if it was conveniently ignored or tacitly condoned because the club was on the brink of a flag. Maybe the club should have borne more responsibility for the fact that not just one or two wild cards but a large proportion of the group were tainted by the culture ( you could add in Mainwaring and Michael Gardiner to those publicly known to have a 'problem')

This is the beauty in club hypocrisy. They care about cultural issues unless things are going well, and are all too happy to turn their backs on bad behaviour if a group of young men are close to delivering success. Think Collingwood, the Saints and the Eagles as perfect examples of this.

Club administrators could not give a single shit about the well being of players when it comes to this issue, it's all about protecting their brand and ensuring they don't incur the wrath of the AFL if something goes wrong........unless success might be just around the corner. Then it's "nothing to see here".

[westdog54]

It's an interesting point, that you make, though, because the rampant drug taking of WC nearly cost a player his life, has been described as out of control by Dean Cox, and who knows where Cousins' and Danile Kerr's stories will end - yet it's hard to believe the club was oblivious, and I've always wondered if it was conveniently ignored or tacitly condoned because the club was on the brink of a flag. Maybe the club should have borne more responsibility for the fact that not just one or two wild cards but a large proportion of the group were tainted by the culture ( you could add in Mainwaring and Michael Gardiner to those publicly known to have a 'problem')

With due respect to the man himself, I don't think Chris Mainwaring's family would see it as a "Nearly".

[bulldogtragic]

With due respect to the man himself, I don't think Chris Mainwaring's family would see it as a "Nearly".

The sad thing is that everyone (media, we, afl etc) seem to airbrush his death from narratives and story lines of their culture. I don't like this.

[The bulldog tragician]

With due respect to the man himself, I don't think Chris Mainwaring's family would see it as a "Nearly".

I was referring to Chad Fletcher, who OD'ed in Las Vegas but survived.

[jeemak]

I was referring to Chad Fletcher, who OD'ed in Las Vegas but survived.

I think westdog54 was making a point.

[westdog54]

I was referring to Chad Fletcher, who OD'ed in Las Vegas but survived.

I know. But Manna is, rightly or wrongly (and fwiw I believe very wrongly), forgotten in the narrative, as BT eloquently put it.

[LostDoggy]

This is the beauty in club hypocrisy. They care about cultural issues unless things are going well, and are all too happy to turn their backs on bad behaviour if a group of young men are close to delivering success. Think Collingwood, the Saints and the Eagles as perfect examples of this.

Club administrators could not give a single shit about the well being of players when it comes to this issue, it's all about protecting their brand and ensuring they don't incur the wrath of the AFL if something goes wrong........unless success might be just around the corner. Then it's "nothing to see here".
Every now and then you see a club buck this trend, Carlton finally handling Fevola being an example, but only when their hands are tied. I agree with GVGjr's post, as draft sanctions are the only way to force a club to care. Sadly, I don't see this happening at all. The AFL are far more likely to hand GC more picks, not less. The Dogs are guilty of sweeping under carpets too. Anybody remember Gavin Hughes?

I know. But Manna is, rightly or wrongly (and fwiw I believe very wrongly), forgotten in the narrative, as BT eloquently put it.
Not forgotten mate, purposefully excluded. You can't manage the message and massage your brand identity by including him.

[ledge]

Lets use the Tom Liberatore incident, what should these players get ? The club was held responsible because it involved being out at a club function.
It was dealt by the club and the AFL accepted it, isnt that how it worked?
I'm not sure how rules apply outside the clubs time , was this out of club time and on a holiday ?

[bornadog]

CCC has insufficient evidence for athlete drug charges (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/gold-coast/ccc-has-insufficient-evidence-for-athlete-drug-charges-20150701-gi2rlj.html)

The Queensland Crime and Corruption Commission has poured cold water on speculation more athletes will be charged in relation to illicit drug use.
Despite intense speculation that more players would be in line for criminal charges after claims made by Queensland Reds player Karmichael Hunt allegedly implicating former Gold Coast Suns teammates (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/reds/queensland-reds-star-karmichael-hunt-binged-on-drugs-and-alcohol-for-days-at-a-time-report-20150627-ghzjie.html), the CCC says there is not enough evidence to warrant further athlete charges.

[Throughandthrough]

Will the names be named in the Hun tomorrow?

[comrade]

Well the Courier Mail is going with a front page pic of Harley Bennell cutting up lines of coke....

[bulldogtragic]

Well the Courier Mail is going with a front page pic of Harley Bennell cutting up lines of coke....

Photos are online on the Hun website. Who lets photos be taken of this? He deserves a ban for stupidity alone.

[Sedat]

Well the Courier Mail is going with a front page pic of Harley Bennell cutting up lines of coke....
Very disappointing misrepresentation of the facts there Comrade - they are lines of speed, not coke ;)

[Twodogs]

Very disappointing misrepresentation of the facts there Comrade - they are lines of speed, not coke ;)


Speed is just blue collar coke anyway.

Pretty stupid too. Amphetamines stay in your system forever and can be detected much easier than coke which washes through you in a couple of days.

[Happy Days]

Speed is just blue collar coke anyway.

Pretty stupid too. Amphetamines stay in your system forever and can be detected much easier than coke which washes through you in a couple of days.

Has he tested positive?

[comrade]

Very disappointing misrepresentation of the facts there Comrade - they are lines of speed, not coke ;)

Sorry, as an AFL footballer, thought he'd prefer the top shelf stuff. The UDL can should've given it away :D

[comrade]

Has he tested positive?

Has any Essendon player?

Did Cuz?

[Happy Days]

Has any Essendon player?

Did Cuz?

Sorry that seemed annoying, I was genuinely asking if he had a strike recorded. Not that we would know, the AFL has less commitment to transparency than professional wrestling.

[Twodogs]

Has he tested positive?

Nobody would know apart from the club doctor, the player and somebody else-forgotten who it is. The tea lady or someone like that.

[LostDoggy]

Has he tested positive?

Take out the last word and I reckon you're getting closer to the right question.

[Drunken Bum]

Pretty stupid too. Amphetamines stay in your system forever and can be detected much easier than coke which washes through you in a couple of days.

Psychedelics are where it's at, you could still be tripping and they would be lucky to detect it.
Incidentally been doing a lot of research on micro dosing lsd and shrooms, i knew of it's benefits mental health wise and with creativity and working through problems but wasn't aware how widely it's used in extreme sports, helps reflexes and reaction time, balance and fatigue, i imagine it would be very beneficial in a sport like Aussie Rules and it's virtually undetectable. Wonder how prevalent it could be in the sport


interesting article on the subject
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v21n1/v21n1-25to29.pdf

[1eyedog]

Psychedelics are where it's at, you could still be tripping and they would be lucky to detect it.
Incidentally been doing a lot of research on micro dosing lsd and shrooms, i knew of it's benefits mental health wise and with creativity and working through problems but wasn't aware how widely it's used in extreme sports, helps reflexes and reaction time, balance and fatigue, i imagine it would be very beneficial in a sport like Aussie Rules and it's virtually undetectable. Wonder how prevalent it could be in the sport


interesting article on the subject
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v21n1/v21n1-25to29.pdf

Vikings used to go the shrooms prior to battle. It was documented by Byzantine historians that it was the driver of the Beserker rage.

[1eyedog]

Psychedelics are where it's at, you could still be tripping and they would be lucky to detect it.
Incidentally been doing a lot of research on micro dosing lsd and shrooms, i knew of it's benefits mental health wise and with creativity and working through problems but wasn't aware how widely it's used in extreme sports, helps reflexes and reaction time, balance and fatigue, i imagine it would be very beneficial in a sport like Aussie Rules and it's virtually undetectable. Wonder how prevalent it could be in the sport


interesting article on the subject
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v21n1/v21n1-25to29.pdf

Shrooms are a weird experience, there is the initial paranoia you get with pot, but curiosity always overrides it and where you were hesitant a minute earlier you find yourself completely consumed by whatever it is that took your fancy. I reckon you could play some pretty good footy on them, once the initial doubts wore off.

Scuse double post...

[Drunken Bum]

Shrooms are a weird experience, there is the initial paranoia you get with pot, but curiosity always overrides it and where you were hesitant a minute earlier you find yourself completely consumed by whatever it is that took your fancy. I reckon you could play some pretty good footy on them, once the initial doubts wore off.

Scuse double post...

I wouldn't imagine you could play very well whilst proper tripping on them(although the example of Doc Ellis pitching a no hitter in major league baseball contradicts that somewhat) but sub perceptual doses, like a 5th or 10th of a normal dosage are widely used in extreme sports, heightening senses, improved reflexes and concentration/focus reducing fatigue and pain. You don't actually trip per se

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't imagine you could play very well whilst proper tripping on them(although the example of Doc Ellis pitching a no hitter in major league baseball contradicts that somewhat) but sub perceptual doses, like a 5th or 10th of a normal dosage are widely used in extreme sports, heightening senses, improved reflexes and concentration/focus reducing fatigue and pain. You don't actually trip per se

Yes I would imagine that spatial awareness would be greatly reduced the higher the dose.

[Drunken Bum]

Vikings used to go the shrooms prior to battle. It was documented by Byzantine historians that it was the driver of the Beserker rage.

It's also theorised that they were a significant contributing factor in our evolution as a species and in the development of language and culture and in almost all ancient cultures there is evidence regarding use of psychedelic plants

little bit off topic there though apologies.

Thought it was interesting given the subject at hand, their use in extreme sports and whether it would be known much amongst other athletes. Read the article in the link i provided if you get the chance, very interesting reading

[Twodogs]

I've played cricket still tripping from the night before. It wasn't a good experience.

[1eyedog]

I've played cricket still tripping from the night before. It wasn't a good experience.

Ha ha standing at the crease to anything more than medium pace is an anxious experience in itself! I don't know how you walked out there.

I thought I was at Kardinia Park playing football for the Bulldogs under lights one rainy night. Turns out I was just in a gutter full of water staring straight up into a street light. The realisation of that was devastating. Anyhoo...

[bornadog]

mmmmm.............when will people learn when they have a great opportunity to make something of them selves and they can blow it on some illegal substance.

[Drunken Bum]

mmmmm.............when will people learn when they have a great opportunity to make something of them selves and they can blow it on some illegal substance.

Not the place to be having this discussion but when will people learn to stop being so judgmental of others on a subject they know very little of. FWIW a lot of these illegal drugs are powerful medicines that have been used for many 1000's of years and there is scientific data backing up there effectiveness, as i said not the time and place for this discussion but feel free to PM if you would like to actually learn something of them rather than judging me for my personal choices that have improved my life and my mental well being immeasurably on top of making me a better more socially aware, loving and caring person.
Feel free to judge me all you want once you have educated yourself on the subject but i suspect you wont bother because your mind is already made up

Apologies for taking the thread off track

[bornadog]

Not the place to be having this discussion but when will people learn to stop being so judgmental of others on a subject they know very little of. FWIW a lot of these illegal drugs are powerful medicines that have been used for many 1000's of years and there is scientific data backing up there effectiveness, as i said not the time and place for this discussion but feel free to PM if you would like to actually learn something of them rather than judging me for my personal choices that have improved my life and my mental well being immeasurably.
Feel free to judge me all you want once you have educated yourself on the subject but i suspect you wont bother because your mind is already made up

Apologies for taking the thread off track

You are right about a couple of things.

1. Not the place to have a full blown discussion on drugs
2. They are illegal

My point is the opportunity to play football and earn 300k, 400k, 500k, or even a million dollars, can be thrown out the door because of having a so called good time with some illegal substance. Sounds simplistic, it is.

BTW: I don't care what the general public does in there spare time. Sports people are different. We have 35,000 members sweating on what our players will do and if they stuff up, then its really disappointing.

[Drunken Bum]

Sounds simplistic, it is.
We agree on one thing then


BTW: I don't care what the general public does in there spare time. Sports people are different. We have 35,000 members sweating on what our players will do and if they stuff up, then its really disappointing.
They're young men who perform a high pressure job, media and fans acting like they are somehow more accountable than us is half the problem, they aren't role models, they're young blokes who happen to be gifted at a sport.
Bastardising a quote from George Carlin for cleanliness but if your kids need a role model and you aint it you're both stuffed

[bornadog]

They're young men who perform a high pressure job, media and fans acting like they are somehow more accountable than us is half the problem, they aren't role models, they're young blokes who happen to be gifted at a sport.
Bastardising a quote from George Carlin for cleanliness but if your kids need a role model and you aint it you're both stuffed

If it's so tough, they have a choice - don't play.

No sympathy from me.

[westdog54]

The more I look at these photos, the more I think they were taken on a hidden camera.

Whilst I'm not condoning amphetamine use, this reeks of a sting.

I'd love to know EXACTLY how these images were obtained, and how much News Ltd paid to get them.

[Drunken Bum]

If it's so tough, they have a choice - don't play.

No sympathy from me.

Once again an extremely simplistic view. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of addicts come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, minorities and/or those suffering mental illness, yeah he could be just a young idiot with too much money on his hands that thinks he is invincible but i suspect there are other underlying reasons, for me myself it was severe clinical depression that caused me to turn to drugs, i just gave up, i didn't care anymore, i was always very anti drugs my whole life before then, i was lucky that i didn't fall in with the wrong crowd as i could very well be a junkie or dead by now and funnily enough it was some of these illegal drugs that helped heal me of that depression and changed me as a person for the better.
All i'm saying is don't be so quick to judge because you and i have no idea what has caused him to turn to them in the first place. Must be so easy for you living in a world where everything is black or white with nothing in between, pretty damn bland though

[GVGjr]

Guys can we get back on track. Discussions should be primarily focused on what we know rather than specific drugs and I agree with an earlier post that mentioned that this is not the place to have a full blown discussion on drugs, With that in mind lets focus on the role the clubs and the AFL can play in ensuring that this type of issue doesn't become the norm.

My concern is still mainly around the Suns informing all and sundry that there was no problem at the club and really that has been proven an almost negligent position. The Suns have since come out and said they they will support Bennell and will take action in the best interests of the player concerned which is of course the correct thing to do.

I'm sure the AFL doesn't want to see another West Coast Eagles shambles and I hope clubs can play a more proactive role in steering players away from these sort of choices. Both the AFL and the Suns need to take the strongest action and if I was an AFL investigator I'd want to see the sorts of actions the Suns have conducted since some of the KMH evidence started to raise concerns.

[jeemak]

I struggle with the almost laughing off and or denial of any such issues possibly existing at any club, including ours. It frustrates me no end when our supporters snigger at other clubs, knowing full well we're potentially just around the corner to being on the wrong end of a similar issue.

As an aside, if all of that Bogan Dust was solely for Bennell he'd have had the entire Grand Chancellor dusted and vacuumed by lunchtime.

[Twodogs]

The more I look at these photos, the more I think they were taken on a hidden camera.

Whilst I'm not condoning amphetamine use, this reeks of a sting.

I'd love to know EXACTLY how these images were obtained, and how much News Ltd paid to get them.


The resolution screams phone camera to me.

[Remi Moses]

I've played cricket still tripping from the night before. It wasn't a good experience.

Had a good mate who did it constantly in the 80's
Our opening bowler couldn't hit the wicket;)

[Twodogs]

They had to keep moving me to spots where the ball wasn't likely to come but the batsman managed to keep hitting it toward me.

[Maddog37]

Harley may not get back at all from this.

[bornadog]

Good article from Emma Quayle on Harley Bennell here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/understanding-is-the-key-in-dealing-with-harley-bennell-20150702-gi3xw6.html)

Hasn't had a particularly good up bringing and has found it tough being away from home in Perth. (I am not giving him excuses for drug taking.)

I think it was grossly unfair of News Corp to publish those 2 year old pics. Hopefully the kid can work it all out as he is an extremely talented footballer.

[Drunken Bum]

If it's so tough, they have a choice - don't play.
No sympathy from me.

So you have some sympathy for him now that you understand that there's more to it than simply being a dickhead?
This is exactly what i was trying to say, don't be so quick to judge as there's often a lot more to a situation than you will ever know.
I'm not in any way excusing his behavior but he has been treated very shabbily by our pathetic excuse for a media and there are often underlying reasons for people making bad decisions and lifestyle choices, yes some are just dickheads but everything is not always black and white we would all do well to remember that.

[westdog54]

Good article from Emma Quayle on Harley Bennell here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/understanding-is-the-key-in-dealing-with-harley-bennell-20150702-gi3xw6.html)

Hasn't had a particularly good up bringing and has found it tough being away from home in Perth. (I am not giving him excuses for drug taking.)

I think it was grossly unfair of News Corp to publish those 2 year old pics. Hopefully the kid can work it all out as he is an extremely talented footballer.

The photos were two years old? Seriously?

That's a joke. That is a *!*!*!*!ing joke right there.

Do they have any evidence that he's even gone near the stuff since then? Exactly what were they trying to prove.

Seriously angry right now.

[bornadog]

So you have some sympathy for him now that you understand that there's more to it than simply being a dickhead?
This is exactly what i was trying to say, don't be so quick to judge as there's often a lot more to a situation than you will ever know.
I'm not in any way excusing his behavior but he has been treated very shabbily by our pathetic excuse for a media and there are often underlying reasons for people making bad decisions and lifestyle choices, yes some are just dickheads but everything is not always black and white we would all do well to remember that.

Maybe I am not expressing myself the way I should. I have sympathy for his situation and others who have troubles, I don't have sympathy for those trying to resolve a problem by taking illegal drugs. I do understand why they turn to drugs, but there are other ways these days to resolve issues.

I agree with Gvgjr, The Club should have recognised, that a young man from Perth and his family situation, would have difficulties adjusting to life on the Gold Coast. The other players should also try and help a mate, but in the end the individual must take responsibility.

[Twodogs]

Maybe I am not expressing myself the way I should. I have sympathy for his situation and others who have troubles, I don't have sympathy for those trying to resolve a problem by taking illegal drugs. I do understand why they turn to drugs, but there are other ways these days to resolve issues.

I agree with Gvgjr, The Club should have recognised, that a young man from Perth and his family situation, would have difficulties adjusting to life on the Gold Coast. The other players should also try and help a mate, but in the end the individual must take responsibility.

They said on SEN yesterday that they moved his best mate over from Perth to be his housemate on the GC to help with the settling in period. But the point is valid, GCS should have been on this from early on.

[Maddog37]

When he has K H as his mentor he is in trouble. Perfect storm.

[hujsh]

Maybe I am not expressing myself the way I should. I have sympathy for his situation and others who have troubles, I don't have sympathy for those trying to resolve a problem by taking illegal drugs. I do understand why they turn to drugs, but there are other ways these days to resolve issues.

I agree with Gvgjr, The Club should have recognised, that a young man from Perth and his family situation, would have difficulties adjusting to life on the Gold Coast. The other players should also try and help a mate, but in the end the individual must take responsibility.

But like DB said it's not that simple. Some people use Marijuana for help with kemo and other people abuse prescription drugs or alcohol the same as illegal drugs.

It's also far more likely someone will become addicted when they have other ongoing problems. A mouse in a box will OD on an addictive drug and die but that same mouse with other mice and food and water and equipment living in mouse heaven will likely only take a bit of that addictive drug and have a great time. People are more complicated but it proves a general point

[GVGjr]

But like DB said it's not that simple. Some people use Marijuana for help with kemo and other people abuse prescription drugs or alcohol the same as illegal drugs.

It's also far more likely someone will become addicted when they have other ongoing problems. A mouse in a box will OD on an addictive drug and die but that same mouse with other mice and food and water and equipment living in mouse heaven will likely only take a bit of that addictive drug and have a great time. People are more complicated but it proves a general point

We are once against getting back to the specifics of drugs etc which isn't the point of this thread so can I ask one more time that we focus just on what GWS and the AFL could be doing better.

[bornadog]

We are once against getting back to the specifics of drugs etc which isn't the point of this thread so can I ask one more time that we focus just on what GWS and the AFL could be doing better.

Or even GC :D