Dogs youngest team in average games played - Round 19

[bornadog]

On the weekend we were the youngest team to play in regards to average games played. At just 61.7 average, we were younger than GWS and GC as well as Melbourne, Carlton etc.

Hawks were the oldest with over 140 average games. Average age wise were still in the bottom 3. This is skewed due to Redpath and Dickson being mature age recruits.

All season we have been in the bottom three for average games, but this week without Murphy, Minson the average was very low.

[jazzadogs]

Amazing stuff, and something that I still don't think is really being recognised amongst the AFL community. People are starting to catch on, but it's still a lot of 'Bulldogs have an easy draw' etc rather than 'what an amazing effort from the most inexperienced side in the ENTIRE COMPETITION to be sitting fourth after 20 rounds'.

On a sidenote, where do you get the stats for average age/games played? I've been looking but not able to find it.

[bornadog]

Amazing stuff, and something that I still don't think is really being recognised amongst the AFL community. People are starting to catch on, but it's still a lot of 'Bulldogs have an easy draw' etc rather than 'what an amazing effort from the most inexperienced side in the ENTIRE COMPETITION to be sitting fourth after 20 rounds'.

On a sidenote, where do you get the stats for average age/games played? I've been looking but not able to find it.

Footywire.com, click on game stats and then scroll down and check the right hand side of the page.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=6119

[Greystache]

James Hird says this is just propaganda.

[azabob]

James Hird says this is just propaganda.

And he is flabbergasted by it all - all of it...

[Greystache]

And he is flabbergasted by it all - all of it...

To be honest he just didn't see it coming :D

Sorry don't mean to derail. It just makes a mockery of the suggestion you can't win with more than 6 players with less than 50 games. If you have effort, system, and total buy in then it's very possible.

[azabob]

To be honest he just didn't see it coming :D

Sorry don't mean to derail. It just makes a mockery of the suggestion you can't win with more than 6 players with less than 50 games. If you have effort, system, and total buy in then it's very possible.

Your not derailing it, your adding context. McCartney also offered the youth excuse last year and I'm sure Roos had trotted it out also.

[LostDoggy]

I am sure other clubs, particularly those "rebuilding", will be studying our performance closely. It really is remarkable.

When a new coach comes in, and you have a strong younger group, a brutal list prune really is the only way.

If we had've retained Griffen, Higgins, Cooney etc this year, they would've taken a lot of games off our youngsters and our development would have only slowed. These changes were not entirely our choice but they have been a blessing in disguise.

Even for this year, I can't imagine we would be getting any better results, let alone the positioning for the future.

It's a great lesson. Once you have confidence in a crop of 19-23 year olds, hand pick a few older leaders and clear the rest out. The more responsibility you put into your kids, the quicker they can deliver.

[always right]

As supporters many of us we have a habit of loving our players to the point we are totally opposed to offloading them or even consider that it could be a positive. We desparately want them to be successful and think that it's only a matter of time before they come good.

Jones and Tutt are a case in point where it's hard to believe a number of us wanted them to stay. Even now I hate seeing Cooney struggle so much at the bombers yet he would have held us back if he had remained with us.

I don't know if it's general amongst supporters of all clubs or particular to clubs like ours where in the absence of team success, we latch onto individual players.

[Stefcep]

As supporters many of us we have a habit of loving our players to the point we are totally opposed to offloading them or even consider that it could be a positive. We desparately want them to be successful and think that it's only a matter of time before they come good.

Jones and Tutt are a case in point where it's hard to believe a number of us wanted them to stay. Even now I hate seeing Cooney struggle so much at the bombers yet he would have held us back if he had remained with us.

I don't know if it's general amongst supporters of all clubs or particular to clubs like ours where in the absence of team success, we latch onto individual players.

A few years ago, it was said that at Footscray/WB there was a culture of celebrating champion players. Can't remember who said it, but we had more than our share of 300 gamers. And it was a BAD thing for winning premierships.

At the time I thought "bullshit", but he was right. Every player every season has to make his case based on his performance, not reputation.

[Stefcep]

After winning the unwinnable Grand Final against Geelong, Clarkson was asked if he believed this team would win a Grand Final. He said: "No. Its come 2 years earlier than I thought it would"

[LostDoggy]

I am sure other clubs, particularly those "rebuilding", will be studying our performance closely. It really is remarkable.

When a new coach comes in, and you have a strong younger group, a brutal list prune really is the only way.

If we had've retained Griffen, Higgins, Cooney etc this year, they would've taken a lot of games off our youngsters and our development would have only slowed. These changes were not entirely our choice but they have been a blessing in disguise.

Even for this year, I can't imagine we would be getting any better results, let alone the positioning for the future.

It's a great lesson. Once you have confidence in a crop of 19-23 year olds, hand pick a few older leaders and clear the rest out. The more responsibility you put into your kids, the quicker they can deliver.


A brutal list prune can be done by all clubs when rebuilding but if they think copying our model will automatically bring results they will probably end up dissapointed more than not. We have drafted and traded in some serious talent in the last three or so years if any club trying to copy fails at the draft table they are in trouble. We really have nailed our picks and if we can back it up again this year it will really top us off.

Like you said it is remarkable so far. Just imagine if we had Libba and Clay fit.

[chef]

A few years ago, it was said that at Footscray/WB there was a culture of celebrating champion players. Can't remember who said it, but we had more than our share of 300 gamers. And it was a BAD thing for winning premierships.

At the time I thought "bullshit", but he was right. Every player every season has to make his case based on his performance, not reputation.

The great Chris Grant.

[LostDoggy]

As supporters many of us we have a habit of loving our players to the point we are totally opposed to offloading them or even consider that it could be a positive. We desparately want them to be successful and think that it's only a matter of time before they come good.

Jones and Tutt are a case in point where it's hard to believe a number of us wanted them to stay. Even now I hate seeing Cooney struggle so much at the bombers yet he would have held us back if he had remained with us.

I don't know if it's general amongst supporters of all clubs or particular to clubs like ours where in the absence of team success, we latch onto individual players.

Yep I'm guilty of it. Totally didn't want Cooney leaving.

[bornadog]

Yep I'm guilty of it. Totally didn't want Cooney leaving.

Me too, but after what happened last year, no player is safe in my eyes. Minson goodbye.

[F'scary]

A brutal list prune can be done by all clubs when rebuilding but if they think copying our model will automatically bring results they will probably end up dissapointed more than not. We have drafted and traded in some serious talent in the last three or so years if any club trying to copy fails at the draft table they are in trouble. We really have nailed our picks and if we can back it up again this year it will really top us off. Like you said it is remarkable so far. Just imagine if we had Libba and Clay fit.

Yep, that is the key ingredient. That and getting the most out of what you've got.

[always right]

Me too, but after what happened last year, no player is safe in my eyes. Minson goodbye.

Whilst my view has certainly changed in regard to trading players, you won't hear me being disrespectful to any player who has given us great service.

[Hotdog60]

Me too, but after what happened last year, no player is safe in my eyes. Minson goodbye.

That made me chuckle BAD, I remember some of those debates on who should stay and who should go. I'm guilty as well and I wouldn't like to see big Will turfed aside. But at this stage I can't find a spot for him. His limitations no longer suit our game style and I don't think he has the capability to change.
Boyd was another I thought had to go but the exodus of others we had to retain him and it was a blessing in disguise.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we should view trading players as "turfing" them.

If we were to trade a Minson to a team that could provide him a fresh start and more opportunity, I think it is beneficial all round and shouldn't in any way diminish his status as a quality contributor to our club over many years.

[Hotdog60]

I don't think we should view trading players as "turfing" them.

If we were to trade a Minson to a team that could provide him a fresh start and more opportunity, I think it is beneficial all round and shouldn't in any way diminish his status as a quality contributor to our club over many years.

Turf is just a loose remark, I love Wilbur and would like him to be a one club player. But like Cross I can't fit him in the team at 30 years old would another club what him?

[Mantis]

I don't think we should view trading players as "turfing" them.

If we were to trade a Minson to a team that could provide him a fresh start and more opportunity, I think it is beneficial all round and shouldn't in any way diminish his status as a quality contributor to our club over many years.

Agree.. I think this with Daniel Cross.. He was a great servant, but didn't fit in with where we were headed and we parted ways.

Glad he got another crack at it with Melbourne.

[The bulldog tragician]

In Mark Robinsons article today we were compared to the 'baby Bombers.'

Just looked it up:
Their age was 24 years 106 days.
Ours on Saturday 24 years 36 days - this would be affected by players young in games but 'middle aged' such as Redpath and Dickson probably counter balanced though by the absence of Murphy.

the Bombers, though, still had a handful left from their great 84-85 sides.

I'd be interested to know what the youngest premiership team of the modern era was - anyone know?

[LostDoggy]

I know your point was to show respect for Will and I agree with that. My point is that trading doesn't necessarily have to be direspectful. Cross is a good example where he has got more opportunity, everyone has benefitted, whilst his legacy with us should not be diminished.

We won't get much for Minno but Ruckmen are in short supply, someone will want to top up their list.

Every year a handful get on the merry go round (last 2 or 3 years; Hale, McEvoy, Griffin, McIntosh, Hampson, Maric, Stanley, Mumford, Wood, Martin, Gawn, Giles, Ryder, Jacobs and others I can't recall).

He's 30, healthy and has a good medical record, so someone'll figure they can 2 or 3 years out of him.

[Axe Man]

In Mark Robinsons article today we were compared to the 'baby Bombers.'

Just looked it up:
Their age was 24 years 106 days.
Ours on Saturday 24 years 36 days - this would be affected by players young in games but 'middle aged' such as Redpath and Dickson probably counter balanced though by the absence of Murphy.

the Bombers, though, still had a handful left from their great 84-85 sides.

I'd be interested to know what the youngest premiership team of the modern era was - anyone know?

I believe the youngest premiership side in recent times is Collingwood in 2010 - 24 years 57 days.

They had a bit of a strange age spread though - nobody over 30 and only 1 player under 20. Most of the side was 22 - 28 years old which is really a sweet spot for an AFL footballer. They would have to be disappointed to have only won the 1 flag with that group.

[LostDoggy]

Surely we try to keep will as a backup ruckman to Tom canpbell and Roughead next year. He is still contracted (could be mistaken) and is head and shoulders above Cordy, doubt we will delist 2 ruckman at years end.

[chef]

Surely we try to keep will as a backup ruckman to Tom canpbell and Roughead next year. He is still contracted (could be mistaken) and is head and shoulders above Cordy, doubt we will delist 2 ruckman at years end.

I doubt he'll want to be back up for another season.

[soupman]

Surely we try to keep will as a backup ruckman to Tom canpbell and Roughead next year. He is still contracted (could be mistaken) and is head and shoulders above Cordy, doubt we will delist 2 ruckman at years end.

I'd only keep him if we are unable to facilitate a trade.

We will lose two ruckmen in Cordy and Minson, but one is replaced by Roughead who coming into this season was considered a key defender only. I'd look at rookie listing a longer term prospect to really add to the depth and leave it at that.

[westdog54]

I'd only keep him if we are unable to facilitate a trade.

We will lose two ruckmen in Cordy and Minson, but one is replaced by Roughead who coming into this season was considered a key defender only. I'd look at rookie listing a longer term prospect to really add to the depth and leave it at that.

If Will seeks a trade and we oblige, does Cordy get a lifeline to be the backup to Rough and Campbell?

Surely we don't go into a season with only 2 full time ruckmen on the list?

[Remi Moses]

James Hird says this is just propaganda.

He thinks we were lucky . He's flabbergasted

[Remi Moses]

Minson's done for me
Just doesn't cover the ground consistently , and Campbell's been pretty decent in the last two weeks.
Amazing those stats on the demographic of our list , and hopefully it puts shudders through the rest of the competition.
Still got work to do, but it's very blue sky

[GVGjr]

If Will seeks a trade and we oblige, does Cordy get a lifeline to be the backup to Rough and Campbell?

Surely we don't go into a season with only 2 full time ruckmen on the list?

We will need to trade for a support ruckman at the very least if Minson or Cordy are somehow no longer at the club next season.

[soupman]

If Will seeks a trade and we oblige, does Cordy get a lifeline to be the backup to Rough and Campbell?

Surely we don't go into a season with only 2 full time ruckmen on the list?

I think we only need one more, which would be a rookie imo.

This year we only had three, with Campbell, Minson and Cordy. Roughead is now considered a ruckman and key defender, so fills one of those spots. Campbell obviously another still. I would look at rookie drafting someone as the third.

It sounds like we are very light on, but consider that Tom Boyd has shown himself capable in the position, so he is our third resort, and Redpath has been serviceable as well. Neither of them is any worse than Cordy in the position. And on top of that and possibly more importantly, Beveridge doesn't seem to care. He seems happy and capable of structuring up areas of our field to succeed regardless of whether we have the appropriate personnel.

So that would give us two proper ruckmen and 2 capable ruckmen on the main list, with one on the rookie list. I think that's enough.