Has the experiment of untried club greats turned coaches officially failed now?

[bulldogtragic]

Voss, Hird & Buckley ushered in this so called 'untried coaches' era where the media were talking about how the need to have a good apprenticeship as an assistant coach was no longer needed to be a senior AFL coach.

Voss ended bad.
Hird will end worse.
Buckley has taken a very good team, lost some oldies but got a heap of talent and club support. Gone backwards again this year, honourable or not. Will be probably hurt their club the most.

Is it too early to say this theory is shot to hell and back?

[Remi Moses]

In fairness to Buckley he's unloaded a fair few from their flag team.
I think Collingwood will be decent next seasons onwards, but I'd imagine no eight next season and bucks is in trouble .
Voss was like some mad scientist in the 08 trade period,which ultimately cost him his career.
Hird should have been out of a job when the debacle first came to light!

[LostDoggy]

I'm not writing Buckley off yet either, I'm usually quite impressed when I hear him talk.

Either way though, it'll be a long time before anyone is given a head coach job again before serving a healthy apprenticeship.

[bornadog]

At least Buckley had an apprenticeship under Malthouse.

[Sedat]

At least Buckley had an apprenticeship under Malthouse.
So did Watters and Neeld. Not sure that's the world's best coaching school ;)

[bulldogtragic]

At least Buckley had an apprenticeship under Malthouse.

Wasn't a real one. He was assistant knowing he was getting promoted no matter what, and Malthouse was hardly warm towards him.

[bulldogtragic]

So did Watters and Neeld. Not sure that's the world's best coaching school ;)

Cough. Brad Scott. Cough...



I wasn't really coughing, I was saying Brad Scott because he's a Malthouse assistant coach and he's shite too.

[boydogs]

I don't think it's even the untried bit. It's the club great bit. If James Hird was Nathan Buckley, Essendon would have sacked him 3 years ago but because he is so revered it's more difficult

[The Underdog]

I'm not writing Buckley off yet either, I'm usually quite impressed when I hear him talk.

Either way though, it'll be a long time before anyone is given a head coach job again before serving a healthy apprenticeship.

Yeah it's funny, I thoroughly enjoy listening to Buckley discuss football. He comes across as a nice guy with perspective (the opposite of Hird) and communicates well. Not sure if he's a good coach or not, but if he ends up in the media it'll be the media's gain.

[Bulldog Joe]

I too believe that Buckley is going ok.

He has actually undertaken a rebuild without them becoming uncompetitive and they will be thereabouts. The issue they have at Collingwood is that they believe every player would prefer to play for them.
This can also lead to players drafted to Collingwood getting ahead of themselves.

They have picked up a few from other clubs, but they have also put faith in some that they have simply overpaid for (Jesse White).

Some of their youngsters are showing promise.

[ledge]

There recruiting isn't very good they swapped Daws for Lynch , recruited White .. I'm not sure if that was coaches decisions or clubs but that has certainly let them down a bit.

[jazzadogs]

They've drafted well, with Freeman and Scharenberg held back by injury but others performing well. If they can pick up Treloar this summer as predicted, they will have a decent midfield group.

It pains me to say it but I think they will be (along with GWS, Melbourne and probably GC if they keep their players) our main competition in a few years time.

[bornadog]

They've drafted well, with Freeman and Scharenberg held back by injury but others performing well. If they can pick up Treloar this summer as predicted, they will have a decent midfield group.

It pains me to say it but I think they will be (along with GWS, Melbourne and probably GC if they keep their players) our main competition in a few years time.

Scharenbeg's contract runs out this year, I wonder what the Pies will do. You would think they would keep him as he was a gun in the under 18.

[azabob]

Scharenbeg's contract runs out this year, I wonder what the Pies will do. You would think they would keep him as he was a gun in the under 18.

They do, from the limited i have read it is Scharenberg who is delaying the contract signing.

[LostDoggy]

While Collingwood have traded a couple of duds, they have also traded shrewdly for some really talented kids, particularly Taylor Adams and Jack Crisp. Levi Greenwood is another who still has his best footy ahead of him.

In terms of under 23 talent, I reckon the Pies are amongst the 5 or 6 healthiest lists (not as good as ours though).

Aside from the teams mentioned above, the other team I think is starting to assemble a dangerous young squad is St Kilda.

[bulldogtragic]

Two down, in very bad endings.

[Greystache]

Two down, in very bad endings.

And the other is slowly drowning the club year by year.

[Ghost Dog]

Anyone recall the James Hird Hologram at the MCG history centre?
That guy likes his own bathwater, shaken, not stirred.
Any serious review of applicants would have ruled him out and saved that club millions.

Someone wrote in the Age that once you calculate his pay out, it will have cost 100,000 per game to have him coach.

What about Brisbane? How do you all feel about Leppa?
I like listening to him speak and I don't mind Buckley either.

[boydogs]

What about Brisbane? How do you all feel about Leppa?

Seems to have steadied the ship and found a few young talls, but 3 wins for the year is not good

[LostDoggy]

Big diference is he went away and served a healthy apprenticeship away from the club.

[FrediKanoute]

I think the combination of no apprenticeship and being a club great is disastrous.

As much as nostalgia would make me want Leon Cameron or Scotty West as head coach of the doggies I am glad the club hasn't gone this way.

[bulldogtragic]

With the exception of a new contract extension, can we call this previous fad officially a failure now?

[bulldogtragic]

Bump. Bucks on track for taking Collingwood backwards in every year he's been senior coach. Lucky Eddie loves him, if his name was Neeld, McCartney or Watters he'd be long gone and thus this former player hero at a club cum senior coach would be dusted. Leppa too, although not a hero is showing just because you played well at a club doesn't make you a remotely decent senior coach.

[Bulldog Joe]

Bump. Bucks on track for taking Collingwood backwards in every year he's been senior coach. Lucky Eddie loves him, if his name was Neeld, McCartney or Watters he'd be long gone and thus this former player hero at a club cum senior coach would be dusted. Leppa too, although not a hero is showing just because you played well at a club doesn't make you a remotely decent senior coach.

Is the issue the coach or the list management. Perhaps it is a combination of both. Buckley has brought in a lot of players from other clubs and they do not appear to be providing enough for the assets traded to get them. Has Bucks had too much influence on the personnel recruited?

For Leppa, I think there are deeper issues at the club. However, he certainly has not been able to get any spirit into the group and they seem to have lost their way badly. He simply cannot continue and it is obvious from his demeanour that he knows that as well.

[Remi Moses]

Not sure if Buckley gets the best out of his group consistently enough to be a successful coach.
They're an averaged skills team and are scored against to often.
Treloar is a gun as is Pendles, but there are some players in that side who can't kick .

[bornadog]

Not sure if Buckley gets the best out of his group consistently enough to be a successful coach.
They're an averaged skills team and are scored against to often.
Treloar is a gun as is Pendles, but there are some players in that side who can't kick .

I don't think Pendles is a good as he was a few years ago.

[jeemak]

Bump. Bucks on track for taking Collingwood backwards in every year he's been senior coach. Lucky Eddie loves him, if his name was Neeld, McCartney or Watters he'd be long gone and thus this former player hero at a club cum senior coach would be dusted. Leppa too, although not a hero is showing just because you played well at a club doesn't make you a remotely decent senior coach.

With respect, club B&F, 3 x premiership and 3 x All Australian as a defender around the premiership years probably makes him a hero. In the truest sense of the word, the guy was an absolute gun and massive reason why the Lions were so good once he was moved to defence.

All that aside, his ability to coach or otherwise is almost irrelevant. The Brisbane Lions are probably the least progressive club in the AFL with a dipshit (good footballer and good commentator sometimes) leading it at board level and a culture that has proven irrespective of success mergers are not effective, given you can't be half baked with your supporter base when you're losing (just wait until Hawthorn are shit for five years in a row and see how Launceston reacts - it'll happen).

They are vanilla, they are only in the competition to fill out the numbers for TV rights just like GCS. The AFL has created an almighty cluster*!*!*!*! for itself in Queensland, and there's no way it can be salvaged from this point. Though that's not to say they won't try at the expense of clubs like ours.

All of these issues mean that he's doomed irrespective of his ability. The media is onto them now, his board will sacrifice him to save itself because that's what incompetent people do when they have a gravy train to maintain.

[Twodogs]

Is the issue the coach or the list management. Perhaps it is a combination of both. Buckley has brought in a lot of players from other clubs and they do not appear to be providing enough for the assets traded to get them. Has Bucks had too much influence on the personnel recruited?

For Leppa, I think there are deeper issues at the club. However, he certainly has not been able to get any spirit into the group and they seem to have lost their way badly. He simply cannot continue and it is obvious from his demeanour that he knows that as well.

Their footy and recruiting departments both seem to be peopled by club stalwarts and good ole boys. They don't seem to have a narrative to their recruiting. Did they need Howe or did they just recruit him because he was available?

He is one of many fairly ordinary players given spots on their list that could have gone to a development player. I know you have to have experienced players but Howe is a yahoo show pony. What example does he set? Take a couple of hangers a week and you can have a ten year career.

They have fallen down the ladder each of the last three years but have continued to get cherry on the top players not hard nosed professionals to set standards. They haven't come close to rock bottom yet.

[Webby]

Has it worked since John Coleman or Dick Reynolds? As in, since money played a far greater role than tactical acumen?

People always point to Leigh Matthews, but he never played for Collingwood. Blight was terrible as Norf coach and never played at Geelong. Robbie Walls cut his teeth and proved himself a good coach at Fitzroy prior to getting the Carlton gig. Paul Roos, perhaps? However I wouldn't call him a Swans champion.. He was a solid Swans player who'd been a gun a Fitzroy. On Worsfold, the jury's out on him, for mine. He won one flag with what I think was the best midfield ive ever seen, should have won 3-4 flags with the squad he had, yet managed to match his flag with a wooden spoon... Maybe David Parkin at Hawthorn, but I think Parkin was a solid leader of men more so than a champion player.. Come to think of it, so was Worsfold..

There are reasons why Doug Hawkins or Simon Beasley never coached the Dogs... There are reasons why Clarkson coaches Hawthorn rather than Dermie, Dipper or Crawford.

Malthouse, Hafey, Clarkson, Sheedy, Pagan, Jeans, Beveridge were never anything other than solid contributors (slightly harsh on Sheedy - who did climb out of the back pocket for a period of his career and become a decent midfielder), whilst James Hird, Tim Watson, Nathan Buckley, Michael Voss, Royce Hart etc etc were very limited coaches.

Whenever a club appoints a past champion, I pencil them in for a huge let down. When Essendon appointed Hird, I told every Bombers fan I knew that it was a mistake... However not even in my wildest dreams did I imagine it'd be such a spectacular catastrophe...

I really feel for them..!

[bulldogtragic]

So eloquently put Webby. When I grow up I will post like this on this topic. It's exactly the reason that clubs should be more than reluctant to follow this path in the future, there's not much success. A Brownlow means nothing for future coaching ability, see Voss, Hird & Buckley.

[ledge]

Back pockets who worked hard have good records as coaches .. I tend to think it's because they weren't gifted and realise hard work and using your brains kept you in the Game an never take anything for granted.

[Twodogs]

Back pockets who worked hard have good records as coaches .. I tend to think it's because they weren't gifted and realise hard work and using your brains kept you in the Game an never take anything for granted.

And as players it's their job to stand on the last line of defence and watch the game unfold in front of them and try and anticipate how to turn it around. Centres used to make good coaches as well but we don't really have them anymore.

[GVGjr]

Voss, Hird & Buckley ushered in this so called 'untried coaches' era where the media were talking about how the need to have a good apprenticeship as an assistant coach was no longer needed to be a senior AFL coach.

Voss ended bad.
Hird will end worse.
Buckley has taken a very good team, lost some oldies but got a heap of talent and club support. Gone backwards again this year, honourable or not. Will be probably hurt their club the most.

Is it too early to say this theory is shot to hell and back?


I actually think Buckley has been very good as a coach and his pathway to the position was a decent one. Unfortunately for him he's inherited a average list and I don't think they are as good as the media credit them form. Simply speaking their recruiting hasn't been great.

Voss wasn't great but wasn't bad either. Hird spent the season prior to him taking the reigns at Essendon systematically knifing Matthew Knights which wasn't an ideal lead up to the role.

To answer the OP question, Ideally all coaches do a decent apprenticeship as an assistant but I still think there could be some exceptions if things are planned correctly. It's probably more unlikely than likely now but I'm sure some club will risk it.

[bulldogtragic]

Buckley will be protected with 'valiant' losses for the time being, but I can't wait for the last one to fall. All of Hird (tried to bring down a 'big' club, drugs and media circus, and couldn't coach), Voss (Took over a gun side, Fevola..., killing the culture & couldnt coach) and Buckley (took over a young gun side, gutted it, killed the culture, brought in average and let mature players go & couldnt coach) have taken their big/successful clubs to absolute oblivion. I can't believe the three clubs board/president thought the head coaching prerequisite was being a good player, and in two cases, sacking/forcing out the incumbent.

[jazzadogs]

From the 2010 Premiership side (don't forget that when saying he inherited a bad side), 8 players have left for other clubs. To me this, combined with general observation of Buckley's attitude, shows just how poorly he communicates and manages his players. I feel that he would very quickly write people off.

Bringing in Howe, Wells, Mayne, Greenwood, Jesse White, Dunn, Crisp is not a sign of a club with a clear plan. Adams and Treloar are on a different level, but it could easily be argued that they overpaid for them.

My money is on round 4 for the first "Bucks needs to go" headline and the axe to fall by round 8.
Swans, Saints, Bombers, Cats, Blues, GWS, Hawks between now and then. Hope the Blues win.

[GVGjr]

From the 2010 Premiership side (don't forget that when saying he inherited a bad side), 8 players have left for other clubs. To me this, combined with general observation of Buckley's attitude, shows just how poorly he communicates and manages his players. I feel that he would very quickly write people off.

Bringing in Howe, Wells, Mayne, Greenwood, Jesse White, Dunn, Crisp is not a sign of a club with a clear plan. Adams and Treloar are on a different level, but it could easily be argued that they overpaid for them.

My money is on round 4 for the first "Bucks needs to go" headline and the axe to fall by round 8.
Swans, Saints, Bombers, Cats, Blues, GWS, Hawks between now and then. Hope the Blues win.

You can't always bring in A grade talent like Adams and Treloar but I think the thing that has and will hurt Collingwood and Buckley is the price they have paid for the non A Graders like Mayne, Wells and Greenwood. In fairness to Wells he was probably close to being an A Grader except for the injuries. Mayne missed an easy shot lost night and it hurt the Pies. He will miss more as well.

The brand of footy they play is OK but the skill level by many of the players isn't where it needs to be.

Buckley might be the fall guy for all this but the recruiting hasn't been good enough and some of the players they have acquired from other won't be enough to make them a very competitive side.

[Topdog]

Wells is close to an A grader when fit but even if fit he is 32 years old. Really bizarre signing for a club clearly not in the "premiership window"

[bornadog]

What I know about Buckley is he sets very high standards for players and expects them to be totally professional in their football life , on and off the field and meet those standards, just like when he played.

He did get rid of a group of players that he felt were disrupting the culture that he was trying to create. I know nothing about what those players were like, but they certainly got away with stuff under Malthouse, who didn't seem to care that much as long as they played good football.

Whether Buckley has the personality to pull off what he wants the players to do is another thing, as coaching is not just teaching football, but there is the management of a variety of personalities. He was always a very smart footballer and he no doubt knows how to coach and has a game plan he wants to instill into the players. However, he is not getting the best out of his players as many of them are just not good enough to pull off what Buckley wants.

I can't see him lasting the year out, but one never knows.

[Twodogs]

Wells is close to an A grader when fit but even if fit he is 32 years old. Really bizarre signing for a club clearly not in the "premiership window"


He's the sort of player the Collingwood Army demand the club sign though. If they had the opportunity to have signed someone less high profile that could have done the job cheaper I think they still would have gone with Wells because he gets them more column inches.

[Bulldog Joe]

You can't always bring in A grade talent like Adams and Treloar but I think the thing that has and will hurt Collingwood and Buckley is the price they have paid for the non A Graders like Mayne, Wells and Greenwood. In fairness to Wells he was probably close to being an A Grader except for the injuries. Mayne missed an easy shot lost night and it hurt the Pies. He will miss more as well.

The brand of footy they play is OK but the skill level by many of the players isn't where it needs to be.

Buckley might be the fall guy for all this but the recruiting hasn't been good enough and some of the players they have acquired from other won't be enough to make them a very competitive side.

While their recruiting can be challenged, the question is how much has Buckley influenced the recruiting choices.

[Bulldog4life]

While their recruiting can be challenged, the question is how much has Buckley influenced the recruiting choices.

What I heard on Fox footy was that Gubby Allan signed both Mayne and Wells before he departed with not a lot of input from Buckley

[bulldogtragic]

1-4 with their only win by a single point. How does Eddie pull the trigger? Unofficially ask Bucks to offer the board a resignation, which it with heavy heart accepts, sack him, let him 'coach*' the year out?

*By coach I mean sit in the coaches box and oversee a heap of talented players lose worse year on year.

Side note, Moore as the key target and Cox floating around isn't any good. If only they didn't marginalise Trav and then use that cash on Mayne. Things are going to get really bad for them this year, I reckon the only thing that can help it turn around sooner is Buckley gone ASAP.

[GVGjr]

I wouldn't be making the change on Buckley if I was Eddie unless Bucks initiates it. The problem for Eddie is if they appoint an interim coach and he does OK then it's significantly harder to replace them when they start the search for a new coach.

[comrade]

You'd have to think Eddie is having a big crack at Clarko behind the scenes.

[Topdog]

I wouldn't be making the change on Buckley if I was Eddie unless Bucks initiates it. The problem for Eddie is if they appoint an interim coach and he does OK then it's significantly harder to replace them when they start the search for a new coach.

I call this the Rohde effect

[Sedat]

If I was Eddie, I'd be going after someone like a Caracella type. Long apprenticeship, has some history with the club (easier to sell to the members), clearly talented and is at the cutting edge of the modern game - obviously knows his stuff as evidenced by the improvement in Richmond's game plan this year.

Having said that, please give Bucks a 3 year extension - he just needs a little luck and it will all come good ;)

[GVGjr]

I call this the Rohde effect
You could also call it the Roos effect

[jeemak]

You'd have to think Eddie is having a big crack at Clarko behind the scenes.

Good luck to them.

Unfortunately Clarko's done and his game style is too. Ten years isn't a bad stint, but the game has closed in on him and his players and is played differently now.

[bornadog]

Good luck to them.

Unfortunately Clarko's done and his game style is too. Ten years isn't a bad stint, but the game has closed in on him and his players and is played differently now.
To be fair to Clarko, he has lost a lot of good assistants over the years, which I think has compounded his issues

[Ozza]

Good luck to them.

Unfortunately Clarko's done and his game style is too. Ten years isn't a bad stint, but the game has closed in on him and his players and is played differently now.

That's a remarkable statement.

[Twodogs]

I call this the Rohde effect

Very good.


You could also call it the Roos effect

For every Roos there are at least 10 Rohdes.

[Topdog]

Good luck to them.

Unfortunately Clarko's done and his game style is too. Ten years isn't a bad stint, but the game has closed in on him and his players and is played differently now.

Are you serious with this statement? There is no way known I'd state Clarko is done. He has shown time and time again that he changes with the times and has never been stale.

[comrade]

That's a remarkable statement.

Agree. Not sure how anyone can write him off at this stage.

[jeemak]

I was making pretty bold statements early this morning, wasn't I.

It is too early to write him off, but there's just a part of me that is unsettled about his behaviour in the most recent off season and the type of footy Hawthorn have been playing since about half way through last year.

[Twodogs]

I was making pretty bold statements early this morning, wasn't I.

It is too early to write him off, but there's just a part of me that is unsettled about his behaviour in the most recent off season and the type of footy Hawthorn have been playing since about half way through last year.


Clarko seems to march to the beat of a different drum than the rest of us. He's a strange, premiership winning dude.

[Ozza]

I don't see any reason why Clarkson wouldn't be the man to take Hawthorn all of the way through their next phase, through to their next period of contention.

As Topdog said, he has always been able to re-invent their game style and most of the time has been ahead of the curve. Now he has a group he needs to build/re-build - he's arguably more capable than anyone to do that. He's about 12 or 13 years into coaching now, won a flag after about 4 years, and then 3 more in the period 5/6/7 years after that.

If you look at Sheedy as an example, he won 2 premierships as a new coach, then a 3rd 9 years later, and another 7 years after that. If Clarkson has the motivation to do it - I don't see why you wouldn't be putting faith into a long term view with Clarko if you were Hawthorn.

[GVGjr]

For every Roos there are at least 10 Rohdes.

When Roos was given the interim job at Sydney after Rocket snatched it he impressed a lot of the sponsors between when he took over and when the Swans offered Wallace the role. The Swans had to back pedal on the Wallace offer as the sponsors put pressure on the club to give the job to Roos. That obviously worked out far better for the Swans but it doesn't always.

If Buckley departs or if he is pushed too early in the season the interim coach might just do enough where it forces the club to pick him. That's OK if you have a designated 2IC being groomed for the top position but it can work against you if the interim coach strings together enough wins.

If I was Eddie I'd wait to round 16 before considering getting rid of Buckley.

[Twodogs]

When Roos was given the interim job at Sydney after Rocket snatched it he impressed a lot of the sponsors between when he took over and when the Swans offered Wallace the role. The Swans had to back pedal on the Wallace offer as the sponsors put pressure on the club to give the job to Roos. That obviously worked out far better for the Swans but it doesn't always.

If Buckley departs or if he is pushed too early in the season the interim coach might just do enough where it forces the club to pick him. That's OK if you have a designated 2IC being groomed for the top position but it can work against you if the interim coach strings together enough wins.

If I was Eddie I'd wait to round 16 before considering getting rid of Buckley.

They have Sanderson in place as the 2IC don't they? You're right, He might be too good an alternative to dispense with conveniently at season's end from the supporters and everyone not aware that the club might want to go in a different direction. If I were Collingwood I'd be going new, young coach. Complicate things with fresh ideas for a couple of years.

Maybe they could hire Plough as a consultant in what not to do in this situation? ;)

[jazzadogs]

They have Sanderson in place as the 2IC don't they? You're right, He might be too good an alternative to dispense with conveniently at season's end from the supporters and everyone not aware that the club might want to go in a different direction. If I were Collingwood I'd be going new, young coach. Complicate things with fresh ideas for a couple of years.

Maybe they could hire Plough as a consultant in what not to do in this situation? ;)

Sanderson and Buckley are best mates so I can't see him going for the job if Bucks does get the boot.

Knowing Collingwood, Scott Burns would have to be a good shot at it.

[bulldogtragic]

How has FIGJAM not been sacked, taking them from just after a flag, to worse year on year, every year.

2012 - 4th
2013 - 6th
2014 - 11th
2015 - 12th
2016 - 12th (worse percentage)
2017 - currently 15th, projected 14th or 15th

I can't imagine him getting another contract, but surely sack him and use the cover of it to make progressive changes to team selection and general player management.

[Twodogs]

How has FIGJAM not been sacked, taking them from just after a flag, to worse year on year, every year.

2012 - 4th
2013 - 6th
2014 - 11th
2015 - 12th
2016 - 12th (worse percentage)
2017 - currently 15th, projected 14th or 15th

I can't imagine him getting another contract, but surely sack him and use the cover of it to make progressive changes to team selection and general player management.

Wasn't sacking their last coach and making changes to team selection and the management of players how they got themselves into this situation in the first place?

[westdog54]

How has FIGJAM not been sacked, taking them from just after a flag, to worse year on year, every year.

2012 - 4th
2013 - 6th
2014 - 11th
2015 - 12th
2016 - 12th (worse percentage)
2017 - currently 15th, projected 14th or 15th

I can't imagine him getting another contract, but surely sack him and use the cover of it to make progressive changes to team selection and general player management.

Surely Eddie has been in his ear trying to convince him to resign. The next 2 months are as big a test for Eddie as they are for Bucks.

[Bulldog Joe]

The problem at Collingwood is deeper than the coach.

The list management has been appalling, although the responsibility there may also be due to the involvement of the coach.

The drafting has been very ordinary with a propensity to select players who have injury concerns (Scharenberg, Freeman) as well as Wells (free agent).

Whoever thought Mayne was worth the contract they gave him should never work at a football club again.

[bulldogtragic]

The problem at Collingwood is deeper than the coach.

The list management has been appalling, although the responsibility there may also be due to the involvement of the coach.

The drafting has been very ordinary with a propensity to select players who have injury concerns (Scharenberg, Freeman) as well as Wells (free agent).

Whoever thought Mayne was worth the contract they gave him should never work at a football club again.

Absolutely, but Buckley has taken a good team and made them worse year on year for 6 years. That must surely be a record. If his name was Rhode, McCartney, Watters, Neeld etc. he'd have been sacked a long time ago. And I don't think he can coach.

I think WD54 is right too about it being a test for Eddie. If the board through Eddie want him to resign or are forced to sack him, Eddie has to then take a huge burden of responsibility for the last 6 years. Bucks to me seems the type who will fall on his sword to avoid gutless administrators from having to do the hard stuff.

[Webby]

The problem at Collingwood is deeper than the coach.

Correct. How does a footy club conspire to:
Remove the current premiership coach?
Cause such a derailment to their 2011 season that they blow back to back flags?
Manage to have more official illicit drug infringements than any other club?
Manage to land and then lose perhaps the best football manager in the business, Neil Balme?
Not only lose Balme, but replace him with the soon to be banned Gubby Allen?
Recruit Chris Mayne on a four year deal?! (Did they perhaps confuse him with David Mundy?!)
Recruit a broken Shannon Wells?
Manage to have four (or is it five?) football managers for Buckley to work with over the past six seasons?

Maybe Buckley isn't a great coach, but bloody hell, the above makes for a pretty rocky road!

I couldn't believe the path taken by Collingwood at the time that Eddie anointed Buckley. I have it on excellent authority that from that moment on, Malthouse removed Buckley from the inner-sanctum of assistant coaches - thus inhibiting Buckley's development. If you look at the list of fellow assistant coaches at Collingwood at the time, it includes a who's who of current AFL coaches.

Not only that, but a vindictive Malthouse was always going to undermine the transition to Buckley by ensuring the group was polarised. Several senior players were in Camp Mick for life. It was a debacle.

The architect of the debacle was Edward McGuire. He turned a likely dynasty into what is now a steaming pile of proverbial.

McGuire's first few years in the presidency were outstanding. His promotional flair and commercial contacts were the perfect recipe to convert Collingwood into the juggernaut they should always have been (but for generations of backward looking, small thinking, amateurish administration.) He landed big sponsors, formed excellent commercial alignments - although nothin too mind-bogglingly complex or creative - Signing Malthouse as one of the most tried and true coaches in the game made complete sense. It was a non-speculative, blue chip investment. Solid, sensible and fitting. No question.

However, as with many people, hubris crept in and Eddie began to creep further and further into the football department. His blue chip investments began to get very, very speculative with the Buckley switch. Collingwood had the best coaching panel in the game in 2010 - led by a strong elder statesman (if you can call Mick a statesman..!) Almost an NFL - type model whereby talented assistants were overseen by the elder statesman. It seemed the perfect modern game blueprint. I remember thinking at the end of our 2008-2010 window "bloody hell, how are clubs like us going to catch them, now?!"

Then Eddie came in and ripped it up. The place has been an underachieving debacle ever since. Such a pity..! :)

Collingwood owes McGuire a lot, but I feel that he probably owes them a lot back, now.. it might be time to pass the torch on - if the right person comes along.

[Topdog]

Great summary Webby. A massive FUP

[Twodogs]

As far as Mayne us concerned wasn't he signed by the footy manager (not Balme or Allen, another one that was moved on late last year) that is now gone?

[Bulldog Joe]

As far as Mayne us concerned wasn't he signed by the footy manager (not Balme or Allen, another one that was moved on late last year) that is now gone?

Balme was replaced by Gubby, so if it was the football manager it was one of them.

Given the time frame the commitment may have been made by Balme, which would be sweet justice given that Eddie was turfing Balme for Gubby.

[GVGjr]

If Buckley goes by the end of the season I'd like us to try and secure Sanderson as an assistant coach. He would be a real asset for any club.