Top Dog says Bulldogs supporters need to show more loyalty

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/top-dog-says-bulldogs-supporters-need-to-show-more-loyalty-20150817-gj0wvu.html)

http://www.theage.com.au/content/dam/images/g/j/0/y/g/x/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gj0wvu.png/1439804539036.jpg

While the Western Bulldogs may be one of the hottest sides in the AFL, club president Peter Gordon says he is disappointed with attendances, believing the club's poor fixture in recent years has had a "cumulative effect" on supporters.

The Bulldogs' final two home matches of the season — against Port Adelaide at 2.10pm on a Saturday and Melbourne at 3.20pm on a Sunday — attracted modest crowds of 20,950 and 27,805 respectively at Etihad Stadium, despite their resurgent on-field form having the club in line for a top-four finish. However, their overall home-game attendance was 23,478 this season, up from 22,265.
The Dogs have record membership of about 36,000, and have strong social-media engagement figures, but could yet post a financial loss as a result of the club's failed Edgewater project with developer Prizac.

The club had agreed to run the facility as a gaming, restaurant, sports bar and entertainment venue but Gordon says "Prizac would not, and perhaps could not, meet its obligations as to completion of the Edgewater facility", meaning the club has lost money through acquiring gaming licences and professional fees.
However, the club's focus remains on making the finals for the first time since 2010, while Gordon and new chief executive David Stevenson, the latter has just started, are keen for supporters to be there in full force for the remainder of the year.
"The fixture has not been particularly consumer-friendly to Bulldog supporters and members in a few years and I think it's going to take a while to correct that," Gordon said on Monday.

The Dogs have had their share of what Gordon labelled "graveyard" slots this season, having had four twilight matches and three early starts on a Sunday. They have not had a Thursday or Friday night clash, but hope to have a handful of these fixtures next season.
"I think that both the fixturing of games against interstate opponents and the fixturing of games at 4pm on Sundays and all sorts of odd hours has cumulatively had quite an effect on us over the years. I think our supporters have learnt some other habits including watching it on TV or whatever," Gordon said.

"I think we need to attack that in two ways. One is, we need to call on our members to get behind our team and be there and be there loud and be in club colours.
"But we also need to say to the AFL, if you are just going to use us to make up the numbers in graveyard shifts year after year, then it is going to have some carry-over effect.
"I think not just with the Western Bulldogs but all of the smaller drawing clubs, the AFL does really need to take into account with its fixturing some initiatives that are actually going to encourage and support coming along to the footy.

"In fairness to the AFL, they have done some of that, with pricing initiatives and with kick to kick after the game and with entertainment. But we have to do more, and it's in the fixturing.
"But let me say, I think the obligation is with us, and our members, to vote with our feet."
The Bulldogs posted a profit of $329,000 last year, having increased football-department spending by $1.7 million, but Gordon has raised the prospect of a loss this season.

"We have had a lot more turbulence in both the p and l (profit and loss), both positive and negative this year. That is both because we have extraordinary income by way of the capital improvements to the Whitten Oval and we have just announced we have terminated the agreement with the developer on our Edgewater development which is likely to have a negative effect on the profit and loss," Gordon said.

"From a cash point of view, we will trade satisfactory this year but there are a few complications and unusual factors to this year which will mean the overall result I can't give you an accurate quote on just at the moment.
"I am hoping that it won't be (a loss) but it's possible that it will be depending on what happens with Edgewater and the capital improvements to the Whitten Oval."

[Twodogs]

He's got a point. If you're not going to make the effort to see these guys play footy then what do you want the club to do to get you to a game?

[GVGjr]

I mentioned this the other day but while it's great so many members signed up this year our actual attendances by our Bulldog members have been poor. To some extent we can offset some of the blame towards the fixture but our members just aren't going to enough games. It's the reason why we have a game in Cairns each year and it's the reason why we can't get a better deal at Etihad.

I've been impressed with the lengths the club has gone to in making the Bulldog experience such a good one plus on field we have been sensational. Not enough of our members are buying the story though.

I'm not sure if it's just a reflection on many people believing they are genuinely 'time poor' or if this new digital age of viewing things on your phone or ipad rather than attending the games is the preference but it's a worrying sign.
People more than ever want to be informed but I question if they really want to participate.

The shame is so many people are missing on the experience of getting to the game and watching a young and exciting team achieve some fantastic results.

[Eastdog]

Good read. Most fans who don't attend you would think have genuine reasons why the can't come so thats fine but this is more to those who don't really have much reason for not attending games and a Bulldog supporters. Hopefully we can get a few Friday night games next season.

Ive been to all our games in Victoria this year luckily as no major family functions or events etc have happened during the times we have played but in previous seasons I've missed some games due to those things on.

[bornadog]

I mentioned this the other day but while it's great so many members signed up this year our actual attendances by our Bulldog members have been poor. To some extent we can offset some of the blame towards the fixture but our members just aren't going to enough games. It's the reason why we have a game in Cairns each year and it's the reason why we can't get a better deal at Etihad.

I've been impressed with the lengths the club has gone to in making the Bulldog experience such a good one plus on field we have been sensational. Not enough of our members are buying the story though.

I'm not sure if it's just a reflection on many people believing they are genuinely 'time poor' or if this new digital age of viewing things on your phone or ipad rather than attending the games is the preference but it's a worrying sign.
People more than ever want to be informed but I question if they really want to participate.

The shame is so many people are missing on the experience of getting to the game and watching a young and exciting team achieve some fantastic results.

Whilst I agree with you, I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. We have played 6 home games at Etihad against interstate teams, plus one in Cairns. I agree we should have had more supporters attend, but playing interstate teams makes it hard to get a big crowd in especially opposition supporters.

In 2008 to 2010, we had massive crowds at Etihad. In 2009 we played to over 40,000 8 times including a 51,000 against Collingwood, yet our deal at Etihad was no better after that. The club seemingly didn't take advantage of the situation to build our case. With the lower crowds this year, the new administration will find it difficult to convince anyone on a new deal.

I really believe live TV has effected games, especially with older supporters. Also our time slots and who we play has a big effect. A solution needs to be found or we will keep losing money (or start to)

[GVGjr]

Whilst I agree with you, I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. We have played 6 home games at Etihad against interstate teams, plus one in Cairns. I agree we should have had more supporters attend, but playing interstate teams makes it hard to get a big crowd in especially opposition supporters.

In 2008 to 2010, we had massive crowds at Etihad. In 2009 we played to over 40,000 8 times including a 51,000 against Collingwood, yet our deal at Etihad was no better after that. The club seemingly didn't take advantage of the situation to build our case. With the lower crowds this year, the new administration will find it difficult to convince anyone on a new deal.

I really believe live TV has effected games, especially with older supporters. Also our time slots and who we play has a big effect. A solution needs to be found or we will keep losing money (or start to)

We can keep banging on about how we have been badly done by but in reality we aren't going to enough of our own home games.

And in reality we are playing better football this season than we have in years. We are an exciting team to watch.
I've also often heard people say 'we should play the kids' and we are doing just that this year with a great return.

I don't believe the club can do much more than what they have and we should be appreciative of what they have been able to do.

Sure it's a bit to do with TV but I think many people believe they are just time poor. To some it's more about constantly engaging their network of friends via their phone than investing the time to get to a game. They check updates on results regularly but going to games isn't a high priority. They still like the big occasions though and we only have to look back to last years VFL GF. One of the most passionate and vocal efforts I've seen by Bulldog supporters.

[bornadog]

We can keep banging on about how we have been badly done by but in reality we aren't going to enough of our own home games.

And in reality we are playing better football this season than we have in years. We are an exciting team to watch.
I've also often heard people say 'we should play the kids' and we are doing just that this year with a great return.

I don't believe the club can do much more than what they have and we should be appreciative of what they have been able to do.

Sure it's a bit to do with TV but I think many people believe they are just time poor. To some it's more about constantly engaging their network of friends via their phone than investing the time to get to a game. They check updates on results regularly but going to games isn't a high priority. They still like the big occasions though and we only have to look back to last years VFL GF. One of the most passionate and vocal efforts I've seen by Bulldog supporters.

Maybe the finals will fire up the supporters.

[LostDoggy]

It's the accumulation. Years of shitty deals, the AFL corporate machine, poor form (before this year but habits are set), bigger teams getting all the rewards like Carlton getting six Friday nights, food prices set by drug cartel business models, selling home games, etc.

That's the best guess I've got, I go to every game I can because AFL is a shitty sport to watch on TV.

[BulldogBelle]

l am one who could not make the last 2 home games.
My 16 year old was playing his 2nd Senior game of footy so l had to watch him instead of the Dogs v Port.
On sunday (Dogs v Dees) my youngest played in a junior Grand final and lost. We had a end of season get together with parents after game at our clubrooms.

Sometimes family just gets in the way.;)

[bulldogtragic]

So Gordo is still on the forum and ripping my threads off again. Nice. :)

[Murphy'sLore]

Peter Gordon is way too savvy not to keep an eye on this forum.

Hi Peter, love your work :)

[Stefcep]

Its just a sign of how expensive it is to do business that a club can get average over 23,000 fans to its games and not even cover costs. Its like I hear small business turning over $1 mill per year and can't make a profit. It comes down to extortinate leasing/property costs, be that a retail shop or a stadium, its robbery.

[bornadog]

Its just a sign of how expensive it is to do business that a club can get average over 23,000 fans to its games and not even cover costs. Its like I hear small business turning over $1 mill per year and can't make a profit. It comes down to extortinate leasing/property costs, be that a retail shop or a stadium, its robbery.

Geelong about to make a loss, which goes to show how many fans you need to attend every week.

[jeemak]

Nice to see PG doing his best to appease our overlords at AFL House. He knows as well as anyone we'll have to beg for more exposure, and that it won't come easily.

The reality is our fixture is bullshit and it's drastically affecting our attendances. If you couple that with our form in past years it's little wonder we don't get supporters to our games.

We should be looking at hitting our membership record as a huge positive. With a better fixture and some momentum heading into next year our attendances will improve.

[Murphy'sLore]

I think BAS has hit the nail on the head with that observation about fans getting out of the habit of attending. And once you've got used to sitting in front of Foxtel, it takes an effort to rouse yourself to actually go to a game… But winning regularly should help reinforce a new habit, if game times are friendly and everything else is easy.

[Prince Imperial]

Sundays' crowd was the biggest turnout of Dogs supporters I've seen for five years. To put things in perspective, I've looked back at our crowds in equivalent games in years when we made the finals and Sunday's crowd was in line with these:

2000 - Round 12 - Melbourne - Etihad - 26,100
2006 - Round 2 - Melbourne - Etihad - 28,478
2008 - Round 15 - Melbourne - Etihad - 27,446.

[Go_Dogs]

The premise of the article is fine, but it seems an odd week to do it, given I think we did well to get the number we did on Sunday.

The major issue we face looking at the average attendances is the amount of games we've had against interstate side which don't equate to large home crowds. When we have played against the bigger Melbourne clubs (mainly away games) I'd suggest we've been well represented and the crowds have been decent or better overall.

It will be interesting to see how we go if we face the Crows, for example, in a home EF.

[Greystache]

The premise of the article is fine, but it seems an odd week to do it, given I think we did well to get the number we did on Sunday.

The major issue we face looking at the average attendances is the amount of games we've had against interstate side which don't equate to large home crowds. When we have played against the bigger Melbourne clubs (mainly away games) I'd suggest we've been well represented and the crowds have been decent or better overall.

It will be interesting to see how we go if we face the Crows, for example, in a home EF.

Exactly. Why aren't the media harping on about Collingwood only getting 26,000 on a Saturday night against WCE or Richmond getting 22,000 against GWS? Why? Because the rest of their games are prime time against other Melbourne based teams which hides these games in their season home game averages.

[comrade]

The crowd was awesome for a late Sunday start. Only level 2 was sparse which it always is.

Give us some Friday nights and home games against Vic teams and see our number shoot up.

[bornadog]

Exactly. Why aren't the media harping on about Collingwood only getting 26,000 on a Saturday night against WCE or Richmond getting 22,000 against GWS? Why? Because the rest of their games are prime time against other Melbourne based teams which hides these games in their season home game averages.

As I said in another thread, Collingwod have played 11 games at the MCG this year and only one of those was an interstate team (GWS). Bloody joke.

[GVGjr]

As I said in another thread, Collingwod have played 11 games at the MCG this year and only one of those was an interstate team (GWS). Bloody joke.


I'm not sure why we are comparing ourselves to the likes of Collingwood and playing the poor old me card. Lets compare ourselves with the Saints and Melbourne and ask why does a team that is finals bound and playing great football can't get more of our own fans to the games?

[bornadog]

I'm not sure why we are comparing ourselves to the likes of Collingwood and playing the poor old me card. Lets compare ourselves with the Saints and Melbourne and ask why does a team that is finals bound and playing great football can't get more of our own fans to the games?

IF we swapped with Collingwood, what would our average attendances look like?

[ReLoad]

I'm totally guilty as charged, work has basically kept me away all year, although went last week, you ripper! I'm still paid up of course, even with a reserved seat, because well, that's what we do isn't it?

[GVGjr]

IF we swapped with Collingwood, what would our average attendances look like?

Your relying on fans from other teams to bump up our numbers when we should be able to get more of our own to games.

[Greystache]

Your relying on fans from other teams to bump up our numbers when we should be able to get more of our own to games.

So do the other "big drawing" clubs. When they play interstate teams they get similar numbers to us. They just don't have to do it every week or at rubbish times.

Saying we should just do better without considering the reasons we don't is like giving a driver a Datsun 120Y and saying don't complain you can't keep up with the other formula 1s, just driver faster.

[Remi Moses]

I think it may be a bit of a slow burn, as it was in 08.
Agree with G that it isn't good enough that fans don't rock up even when we're decent.
Seems an issue with the code as well
I reckon anytime past 3 o'clock Sunday is bloody awful in many regards .
Will be interesting next season when I assume ( we'd better) get some Friday night games.

[Remi Moses]

The crowd was awesome for a late Sunday start. Only level 2 was sparse which it always is.

Give us some Friday nights and home games against Vic teams and see our number shoot up.

Thought it was a decent turnout as well.
Gotta remember Etihad is to close to the Westgate for Melbourne supporters, and added in they play like a busted arse at the venue.

[LostDoggy]

Thought it was a decent turnout as well.
Gotta remember Etihad is to close to the Westgate for Melbourne supporters, and added in they play like a busted arse at the venue.
I've often wondered: how does a busted arse play? :D

[ledge]

We were playing Melbourne the basket case and still pulled more than Adelaide v bombers a supposed big four club.
It's hard to draw a big crowd when one club is not making finals and packed its bags to go home many weeks ago.
You need to play small clubs at the start of the year when supporters still have hope.
Play the big finals clubs at the end of the year when the bandwagon supporters are out.

[Mantis]

We were playing Melbourne the basket case and still pulled more than Adelaide v bombers a supposed big four club.
It's hard to draw a big crowd when one club is not making finals and packed its bags to go home many weeks ago.
You need to play small clubs at the start of the year when supporters still have hope.
Play the big finals clubs at the end of the year when the bandwagon supporters are out.

But we are a small club and when the fixture was created it was expected we were going to be down towards the bottom of the ladder.

[bornadog]

Third best average rise.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM1CwxdUEAAcuTr.jpg:large

[KT31]

Third best average rise.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM1CwxdUEAAcuTr.jpg:large
Well done to the Tigers marketing department, but would love to see the drop off if the finish ninth.:)