New Forward Line

[hujsh]

Now that we have a good idea at who will be at the club we can figure out who will make the most talked about forward line in the AFL over the last 3 years. I think it will be roughly

HF: Acker Murph Higgins
F: Johnno Welsh Hahn

Reserves: Skipper/Tiller/Grant/Doogs/Minson/Cooney(pinch hitter)

Any thoughts/improvements

[Dry Rot]

Pretty short IMO - would like to see Skipper or Minson in there, but have no great confidence in either.

[Scorlibo]

Pretty good, I'd swap Murph and Welsh around and also swap Aker and Johnno around, maybe Gia in for Hahn, but Mitch does add that extra bit of grunt which makes up for lack of height. You talked about how it has been the most talked about forward line of the past three years, well how about how it will look in three years time. Going on current players this would be mine:

Lynch - Grant - Johnson
Ward - Williams - Murphy

When I saw Lynch play down in Canberra I was very impressed, he showed some great ball skill and pace and I think that of the indigenous blokes taken in the 2006 draft, he is most likely to succeed in three years time (needs to put on a lot of weight though). Grant is probably expected to move into the forward line sometime in the next three years where he will hopefully occupy a key forward position with great success. I would certainly expect Johnno to still be going in three years - he is ultra durable. Ward could play anywhere, but I think he is probably best suited to a half forward spot, what a talent he looks! Would like to see TomaWill move to the forward line, and it looks quite possible if OShea and Wight continue to develop. Murph will probably be in the prime of his career in the next three years and he occupies the last, half forward position.

[LostDoggy]

This year:
much the same as yours hujsh, but just a few spots changed.
FF: Higgins Welsh Johnson
HF: Giansiracusa Murphy Hahn

I think Tiller will battle to get one game next year.

[LostDoggy]

This year:
much the same as yours hujsh, but just a few spots changed.
FF: Higgins Welsh Johnson
HF: Giansiracusa Murphy Hahn

I think Tiller will battle to get one game next year.

What makes you say that? I thought he showed very promising signs toward the end of last season when he was finally injury free. If he adds weight in the pre season i belive he will continue to improve and develop into a decent forward for us. All he needs is gametime.

[Mantis]

This year:
much the same as yours hujsh, but just a few spots changed.
FF: Higgins Welsh Johnson
HF: Giansiracusa Murphy Hahn

I think Tiller will battle to get one game next year.

Would hope that Higgins improves his fitness such that he is able to play up the ground a little more next season.

Agree with borgy that Tiller will be a factor next year, because he has to. We need to continue his development so that come 2009 he is our starting FF. I hope that he plays atleast 10 games next year.

[DOG GOD]

should we be including welsh when he isnt even on our list yet?

I hope we do get him, but its not set in stone just yet.

[Cyberdoggie]

What makes you say that? I thought he showed very promising signs toward the end of last season when he was finally injury free. If he adds weight in the pre season i belive he will continue to improve and develop into a decent forward for us. All he needs is gametime.

he needs to bulk up considerably,

i'd be surprised if he gets more than a few games to be honest,

will be interesting to see how he performs at willy, as he couldn't get a game in the werribee 1's with pods there. (not that he did anything much in the reserves to warrant a spot either)


His promotion to the dogs was very unexpected.

[Go_Dogs]

he needs to bulk up considerably,

i'd be surprised if he gets more than a few games to be honest,

will be interesting to see how he performs at willy, as he couldn't get a game in the werribee 1's with pods there. (not that he did anything much in the reserves to warrant a spot either)


His promotion to the dogs was very unexpected.

Agreed, he's more of a longer term prospect, but should still be aiming to play a handful+ of games, depending on injuries etc.

I really like Tiller, his frame to me, shouts out that it can be developed and become very strong. He is good below the knees, works hard presenting, and has crisp hands. Decent pace of the mark too, although not outstanding. I think he could develop into a real power forward, given another year or 2.

A lot of it depends on how hard Stephen works in the gym. (And from most accounts, he is a pretty hard worker in there).

[LostDoggy]

he needs to bulk up considerably,

i'd be surprised if he gets more than a few games to be honest,

will be interesting to see how he performs at willy, as he couldn't get a game in the werribee 1's with pods there. (not that he did anything much in the reserves to warrant a spot either)


His promotion to the dogs was very unexpected.

His promotion was unexpected but now that he has the taste of what AFL is like, he can work on his areas that need improvement throughout the pre season.

[GVGjr]

should we be including welsh when he isnt even on our list yet?

I hope we do get him, but its not set in stone just yet.

We may as well. No one else has put their hand up yet. Tigers and Blues will look different players and Melbourne don't seem to be interested

[LostDoggy]

Here's my attempt:

HF: Everitt (193cm) Murphy (186) Hahn (189)
FF: Johnson (185) Walsh (186?) Tiller (191)

I think we need a total change. I read Everitt's profile on the dogs website and it said that they hoped to dev. him into a tall forward.

Tiller needs more game time so im happy to start him in a pocket.

Other contenders for a flank were Aker, Higgo and Gia but i would like them all to spend more time in the midfield and only to play forward when resting.

[Mantis]

Here's my attempt:

HF: Everitt (193cm) Murphy (186) Hahn (189)
FF: Johnson (185) Walsh (186?) Tiller (191)

I think we need a total change. I read Everitt's profile on the dogs website and it said that they hoped to dev. him into a tall forward.

Tiller needs more game time so im happy to start him in a pocket.

Other contenders for a flank were Aker, Higgo and Gia but i would like them all to spend more time in the midfield and only to play forward when resting.

How are you going to fit these guys in the midfield on top of Cooney, Cross, Boyd, etc.. I would have thought that atleast 2 of them have to play in the forwardline.

[LostDoggy]

How are you going to fit these guys in the midfield on top of Cooney, Cross, Boyd, etc.. I would have thought that atleast 2 of them have to play in the forwardline.

I did think of that along with the midfield rotation where a couple of them sit in the pocket or on a flank. Im sure something could be sorted out with a bit more thought.

[southerncross]

In the pre season I would like to see the club try something like

Murphy - Wight - Akermanis
Johnson - Welsh - Everitt

[Mofra]

HF: Murphy Welsh Harbrow
F: Minson Johnson Aker

Welsh gets alot of his scroing opportunities from doubling back, so can play a little further out. Ideally he is a HFF, btu we don't have that luxury and he plays bigger than Murph so gets the CHF spot.
Murphy is a leading & marking machine, and his delivery into the F50 is sublime.
Harbrow will play as a defensive forward, he really worked hard on the zones when we turned the ball over.
Johnson - nuff said
Minson as a plan B, also allows Hudson to play a kick behind the play when we are attacking & slow delivery into our backline.
Aker as a crumber off Minson & also deep forward defensive pressure.


Hahn excluded as he isn't durable enough to play the crash & bang type of role people want 22 games of the year, I think he will be heavily rotated through a variety of positions.
Cooney will play more midfield.
Skipper may come in for Minson as form dictates, but I don't expect to see Skipper early in the season due injury.
Higgins will still spend time forward, but his long term future is as a midfielder.
Tiller & Grant may snag a few games, but they are firmly in the developing group for now.
Everitt could play anywhere, he may be groomed as a 2nd quarterback to Gilbee, and Hargrave may play deeper to properly cover the loss of McMahon.

[Mantis]

HF: Murphy Welsh Harbrow
F: Minson Johnson Aker

Welsh gets alot of his scroing opportunities from doubling back, so can play a little further out. Ideally he is a HFF, btu we don't have that luxury and he plays bigger than Murph so gets the CHF spot.
Murphy is a leading & marking machine, and his delivery into the F50 is sublime.
Harbrow will play as a defensive forward, he really worked hard on the zones when we turned the ball over.
Johnson - nuff said
Minson as a plan B, also allows Hudson to play a kick behind the play when we are attacking & slow delivery into our backline.
Aker as a crumber off Minson & also deep forward defensive pressure.


Hahn excluded as he isn't durable enough to play the crash & bang type of role people want 22 games of the year, I think he will be heavily rotated through a variety of positions.
Cooney will play more midfield.
Skipper may come in for Minson as form dictates, but I don't expect to see Skipper early in the season due injury.
Higgins will still spend time forward, but his long term future is as a midfielder.
Tiller & Grant may snag a few games, but they are firmly in the developing group for now.
Everitt could play anywhere, he may be groomed as a 2nd quarterback to Gilbee, and Hargrave may play deeper to properly cover the loss of McMahon.

Agree with that. I think he will become a permanent fixture in our team next year. I thought he was very impressive in his debut season and he brings something to the team we didn't previously have which is great.

Just interested in where you see Gia fitting in?

[bornadog]

HF: Murphy Welsh Harbrow
F: Minson Johnson Aker

.

I think Harbrow will play a more defensive role in the mould of McMahon.

[hujsh]

Hahn excluded as he isn't durable enough to play the crash & bang type of role people want 22 games of the year, I think he will be heavily rotated through a variety of positions.
Cooney will play more midfield.
Skipper may come in for Minson as form dictates, but I don't expect to see Skipper early in the season due injury.
Higgins will still spend time forward, but his long term future is as a midfielder.
Tiller & Grant may snag a few games, but they are firmly in the developing group for now.
Everitt could play anywhere, he may be groomed as a 2nd quarterback to Gilbee, and Hargrave may play deeper to properly cover the loss of McMahon.

Awesome point. We lose so much when Gilbee is shut down and Everitt is probably going to be safer in defence because of his hight and natural defensive skills

[Mofra]

Just interested in where you see Gia fitting in?
Gia will be the tough one. In 05 he would have been leading our B&F halfway thorugh the season, only to struggle with injury.
At his best, he will lead the AFL on assists, and does play tougher than many give him credit for. At his worst, he plays as an outside receiver, a little forward of the pack so gets exposed on turnovers. I would expect him to have a big one this year, simply because he hasn't been hitting the headlines recently and this alone will eat away at him a little, and secondly he has carried some significant niggles that seme to be improving.

I think there is a good chance our starting wingmen for next year will be Ray (defensive) & Gia (attacking), with Eagleton have the sort of year Robbo did in 07. I still rate Eagle, and despite what some say he is still a solid boy with a booming left foot, but he has played a relatively unaccountable style of football that Eade will change from 08. Unaccountable players will have far less latitude than in 07 - the "downhill skiier" tolerance will be zero.

It wont so much be a drop in form that leaves Eagleton without a permanent spot, just the changing gameplan. Unfortunately 11 yeras of senior football habit is difficult to change.

[Mantis]

Gia will be the tough one. In 05 he would have been leading our B&F halfway thorugh the season, only to struggle with injury.
At his best, he will lead the AFL on assists, and does play tougher than many give him credit for. At his worst, he plays as an outside receiver, a little forward of the pack so gets exposed on turnovers. I would expect him to have a big one this year, simply because he hasn't been hitting the headlines recently and this alone will eat away at him a little, and secondly he has carried some significant niggles that seme to be improving.

I think there is a good chance our starting wingmen for next year will be Ray (defensive) & Gia (attacking), with Eagleton have the sort of year Robbo did in 07. I still rate Eagle, and despite what some say he is still a solid boy with a booming left foot, but he has played a relatively unaccountable style of football that Eade will change from 08. Unaccountable players will have far less latitude than in 07 - the "downhill skiier" tolerance will be zero.

It wont so much be a drop in form that leaves Eagleton without a permanent spot, just the changing gameplan. Unfortunately 11 yeras of senior football habit is difficult to change.

I really worry about Gia, well not personally, in a football way, to where he fits in the masterplan. I went to quite a few pre-season sessions at the start of the past season and was surprised to what I saw. In one on one duels with Higgins, Gia was continually getting beaten and he wasn't happy with it, he was getting beaten off the mark and couldn't make up the ground, his lack of leg speed surprised me and it carried over into the season. Rather than make up for this lack of acceleration with the ability to run all day like a Cross or Boyd does, Gia looked unfit ( elite fitness anyway) and didn't have the ability play the style of footy he is required to play. The perception is that Gia a running player like Gilbee or Griffen, but essentially he plays as a small forward in a lead up type role or as a pinch hitter in the midfield where he is quite effective, but probably doesn't have the stamina to play this role for long periods.

Season 08 in my eyes is crucial for Daniel. He needs to either find a yard of pace (which is impossible) or get himself super fit in the Boyd/ Cross mould. He needs to spend more time in the midfield because his role as a small forward will be one for which there is much competition. I would be hoping that Aker, Harbrow, Lynch and Higgins could improve on there efforts from this past year and these are the types of players Gia could be competing for a spot with. The list is developing and there will be far greater competition for spots this year. I don't think names will count for alot and the guys who are willing to do the work will be rewarded.

Agree with your thoughts on Eagleton. Will be a handy depth player, but I would prefer that we try and develop a younger player to play the role we want (emphasis on defensive pressure) rather than try and change the way Eagleton plays/ has played.

[dog town]

I thought Gia actually had a reasonable season given how poorly we played as a group. IMO some of the problems he has with supporters ripping into him stem from the fact most supporters are still expecting him to mature into the gun he looked like becoming in his first couple of seasons. He has not reached the heights that many thought he would get to. The game got quicker and changed in a hurry which has probably cost Gia the ability to play as a permanent midfielder.

To his credit he has found a way to add value to the team as a creative forward. He can play defensive roles as a forward and is very clever at chopping up his leads. He forces defenders to man him up and always brings other guys into the game. He has his weaknesses but he is well worth a place in the side at this stage.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gia -- Hahn -- Murphy
Aker -- Welsh -- Johnson

It's not such a bad lineup. Higgins will obviously spend plenty of time up forward too. As I said on another thread, Hahn/Welsh & Murphy/Johnson compliment each other well. Both Hahn & Welsh aren't A graders, but fight to keep the ball in. They both use their bodies well in the contest and can take a mark. I think we'd see our forward line benefit far more by having these two roaming around as opposed to our setup this year. Murphy in form gives Johnson a break, too. Sides will find it next to impossible to cover both Johnson & Murphy. They're incredible in the air and are creative players. Both genuine match winners.

Add Gia who can be a dangerous, sneaky forward. He lacks pace but the HFF is his speciality because it allows him to lead up & double back. He's an intelligent player, which is why he needs to be kept to the forward line as much as possible. He's too often caught out when he pushes up into the midfield. He's a creative forward who brings other players into the game. At his best, he fights to keep the ball in too. 2005/2006 are fine seasons which is what we need him to play.

Aker will obviously spend time in the midfield too, perhaps 'interchanging' in this role with Higgins, but he's always dangerous. He can play as a leading type at times, but obviously his best work is done around the packs. Welsh, Hahn, Murphy & Johnson will always generally bring the ball to ground so having a fit and firing Akermanis at their feet is handy. No merit in pointing out his traits; we all know what Aker can do.

Skipper/Minson will probably spend some time up forward too.

[hujsh]

I really worry about Gia, well not personally, in a football way, to where he fits in the masterplan. I went to quite a few pre-season sessions at the start of the past season and was surprised to what I saw. In one on one duels with Higgins, Gia was continually getting beaten and he wasn't happy with it, he was getting beaten off the mark and couldn't make up the ground, his lack of leg speed surprised me and it carried over into the season. Rather than make up for this lack of acceleration with the ability to run all day like a Cross or Boyd does, Gia looked unfit ( elite fitness anyway) and didn't have the ability play the style of footy he is required to play. The perception is that Gia a running player like Gilbee or Griffen, but essentially he plays as a small forward in a lead up type role or as a pinch hitter in the midfield where he is quite effective, but probably doesn't have the stamina to play this role for long periods.

Season 08 in my eyes is crucial for Daniel. He needs to either find a yard of pace (which is impossible) or get himself super fit in the Boyd/ Cross mould. He needs to spend more time in the midfield because his role as a small forward will be one for which there is much competition. I would be hoping that Aker, Harbrow, Lynch and Higgins could improve on there efforts from this past year and these are the types of players Gia could be competing for a spot with. The list is developing and there will be far greater competition for spots this year. I don't think names will count for alot and the guys who are willing to do the work will be rewarded.

Agree with your thoughts on Eagleton. Will be a handy depth player, but I would prefer that we try and develop a younger player to play the role we want (emphasis on defensive pressure) rather than try and change the way Eagleton plays/ has played.


This has shocked me. I never thought of Gia as lacking pace which i guess emphisises the point about his endurance. Not surprising that Higgins beat him one on one but WOW:(

I have seen him play well when the dogs have played badly (his good games are overlooked because we usually lose ala West Coast at Subi) which sugggests he is strong mentaly and he seem to learn his lessons (he missed a game winning goal against the Tigers in 05 and the next year he kicked about 20:3 and he has kicked the important goals when he has had to) which gives me hope for him despite these facts.

[Dogs 24/7]

Gia -- Hahn -- Murphy
Aker -- Welsh -- Johnson



Even with Welsh it is still too small. I am not sure what the answer is but that set up is not good enough to win us finals games. Do we need to take a chance and just player someone like Everitt as a tall forward pocket and someone else rather than Hahn at CHF?
I also would have thought that Higgins would be a walk up start but given that Murphy, Akermanis and Johnson are certainties he will have to battle it out with Everitt, Hahn and Giansiracusa.

The more that I think about it the more I'm convinced that we will have another year of mainly small forwards.

[LostDoggy]

I personally liked the HIggins/Aker combination as small forwards - it payed off in the Port Adelaide game. HIggins looks to have beefed up considerably already - I hope that this won't affect his pace.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Even with Welsh it is still too small. I am not sure what the answer is but that set up is not good enough to win us finals games. Do we need to take a chance and just player someone like Everitt as a tall forward pocket and someone else rather than Hahn at CHF?
I also would have thought that Higgins would be a walk up start but given that Murphy, Akermanis and Johnson are certainties he will have to battle it out with Everitt, Hahn and Giansiracusa.

The more that I think about it the more I'm convinced that we will have another year of mainly small forwards.

I agree that it's still too small, but we can't just plonk a tall player in at FF/CHF for the sake of it. Unless Tiller, Minson or Skipper are able to improve and somehow nail down one of the key positions up forward, then I don't think it's wise to simply play a tall for talls sake.

McDougall, Wight, Williams & Everitt are probably going to spend more time down back. If Wight and/or McDougall can hold down CHB, then perhaps we can entertain (in future years, 2009+) the idea of using Everitt or Williams as a KPF. However until then, I think we're beating around the bush trying to play a tall for the sake of it. Skipper showed some signs, but even he is a fair way off actually consolidating the FF/CHF position. Tiller & Minson are a long way off IMO.

[FrediKanoute]

he needs to bulk up considerably,

i'd be surprised if he gets more than a few games to be honest,

will be interesting to see how he performs at willy, as he couldn't get a game in the werribee 1's with pods there. (not that he did anything much in the reserves to warrant a spot either)


His promotion to the dogs was very unexpected.

He has battled injuries, but is highly rated and not just by us, but by other clubs. Adelaide and Port both made inquiries at the end of last season. from what I saw of him last year there were a lot of encouraging signs. There is still a lot of work to be done, but he would be one I would be expecting to improve and get better as the year progresses.

[Dry Rot]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that none of the proposed forward lines* here really looks top 4 or even 6 material?



*Good efforts by everyone, I'm talking about the personnel.

[bornadog]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that none of the proposed forward lines* here really looks top 4 or even 6 material?



*Good efforts by everyone, I'm talking about the personnel.


DR I agree, its all the same as last year (basically).

We will most likely have Welsh to add some bite and kick goals as we know he can, however we need one of the big guys to really step up and take control in the air at CHF. I don't know who its going to be, but I think it will be a bit of an experiment as we go through the season trying out various options.

[Dry Rot]

DR I agree, its all the same as last year (basically).

We will most likely have Welsh to add some bite and kick goals as we know he can, however we need one of the big guys to really step up and take control in the air at CHF. I don't know who its going to be, but I think it will be a bit of an experiment as we go through the season trying out various options.

BTW, in hindsight, why do you think Eade went after Robertson?

[hujsh]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that none of the proposed forward lines* here really looks top 4 or even 6 material?



*Good efforts by everyone, I'm talking about the personnel.

Did Geelong's forwardline look top 4. Good players, eg Mooney & Johnson, got better as did the midfield and Defence. Sometimes the midfield and defence really hiinders the forwardline making it look bad. Our forwards looked pretty good at the end of 05

[BulldogBelle]

BTW, in hindsight, why do you think Eade went after Robertson?

Not sure, but I remember reading somewhere that Eade was the only person that wanted Robertson at the Dogs, no one else in the Bulldog camp wanted him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Did Geelong's forwardline look top 4. Good players, eg Mooney & Johnson, got better as did the midfield and Defence. Sometimes the midfield and defence really hiinders the forwardline making it look bad. Our forwards looked pretty good at the end of 05

It had the potential though. Mooney's a fine player, it's always been his mentality. Is it any coincidence he got it right this year and Geelong won the flag? N. Ablett wasn't fantastic but did his part on occasions too, whilst the likes of Ablett, Johnson & Chapman really tore the competition apart. I thought Ottens did a good job too when he played up forward. So even though their KPF's wern't star studded like Brown or Pavlich, they still were capable of playing good football and bringing the smaller types right into the game.

DR's correct in saying that our forward line on paper doesn't appear to be a reflection of a side capable of finishing Top 4.

It's certainly a worry, because the midfield & backline are able to be improved with the personnel we have. Up forward though, we're really lacking options - and quality ones, too. A fair point was made above, how our set-up worked pretty well towards the end of 2005. Still, I think sides have probably figured us out by now and are able to restrict us. Back then, we took the competition by surprise. It's probably worth noting as good as we looked, we still finished 9th. Though, those last five weeks? were very good.

There's not a whole lot we can do; develop the likes of Tiller, Grant, Boumann & perhaps try Everitt down there in the future. As for 'ready made options', we simply don't have any. Skipper & Minson will be trialed but that's about it.

The midfield does have a huge influence on a side's forwardline & backline, though. In recent years we've been far too offensive and have been pretty poor defensively. If we can even that up a little, I think we'd be a much better side. I don't want to see us play like Sydney/Adelaide, but I think we should look closely at sides like West Coast who run extremely hard both ways, and play a similiar brand of football to us. Granted, The Eagles have a few decent KP players that they were able to get a good contest out of.

Nevertheless, we need a player who will simply contest. If Minson or Skipper are able to do this, we'll be a lot better side. Morgan wasn't such a great player but he brought the ball to the ground consistently, providing opportunities for our much smaller forwads to swoop on the ball. They're creative forwards; not pack busting contested marking forwards. They need the ball to spill to the ground. Minson & Skipper are both at times far too easily brushed aside for their bulk in a marking contest, or severely ill-positioned. If they can overcome this, we'll look a lot better - even if they aren't taking big grabs and kicking goals.

The point is, in 2006 we finished 8th (6th after finals) with plenty of injuries and no KPF's. Two years on the younger players should mature into better players, and we now have - or should have - a stronger backline with Williams, McDougall, Callan & even Everitt as players who can play a role. Thus, I would expect to see some improvement. McMahon's departure will probably help, too. If the midfield can tighten up and play accountable football, I would hope that's about 4 or 5 goals saved. There's a lot of IF's, but I feel that if the side can get things 'right', we should be able to finish Top 6 because talent wise, we're looking better than we were in 2006 when we had a good year.

[hujsh]

It had the potential though. Mooney's a fine player, it's always been his mentality. Is it any coincidence he got it right this year and Geelong won the flag? N. Ablett wasn't fantastic but did his part on occasions too, whilst the likes of Ablett, Johnson & Chapman really tore the competition apart. I thought Ottens did a good job too when he played up forward. So even though their KPF's wern't star studded like Brown or Pavlich, they still were capable of playing good football and bringing the smaller types right into the game.

DR's correct in saying that our forward line on paper doesn't appear to be a reflection of a side capable of finishing Top 4.

It's certainly a worry, because the midfield & backline are able to be improved with the personnel we have. Up forward though, we're really lacking options - and quality ones, too. A fair point was made above, how our set-up worked pretty well towards the end of 2005. Still, I think sides have probably figured us out by now and are able to restrict us. Back then, we took the competition by surprise. It's probably worth noting as good as we looked, we still finished 9th. Though, those last five weeks? were very good.

There's not a whole lot we can do; develop the likes of Tiller, Grant, Boumann & perhaps try Everitt down there in the future. As for 'ready made options', we simply don't have any. Skipper & Minson will be trialed but that's about it.

The midfield does have a huge influence on a side's forwardline & backline, though. In recent years we've been far too offensive and have been pretty poor defensively. If we can even that up a little, I think we'd be a much better side. I don't want to see us play like Sydney/Adelaide, but I think we should look closely at sides like West Coast who run extremely hard both ways, and play a similiar brand of football to us. Granted, The Eagles have a few decent KP players that they were able to get a good contest out of.

Nevertheless, we need a player who will simply contest. If Minson or Skipper are able to do this, we'll be a lot better side. Morgan wasn't such a great player but he brought the ball to the ground consistently, providing opportunities for our much smaller forwads to swoop on the ball. They're creative forwards; not pack busting contested marking forwards. They need the ball to spill to the ground. Minson & Skipper are both at times far too easily brushed aside for their bulk in a marking contest, or severely ill-positioned. If they can overcome this, we'll look a lot better - even if they aren't taking big grabs and kicking goals.

The point is, in 2006 we finished 8th (6th after finals) with plenty of injuries and no KPF's. Two years on the younger players should mature into better players, and we now have - or should have - a stronger backline with Williams, McDougall, Callan & even Everitt as players who can play a role. Thus, I would expect to see some improvement. McMahon's departure will probably help, too. If the midfield can tighten up and play accountable football, I would hope that's about 4 or 5 goals saved. There's a lot of IF's, but I feel that if the side can get things 'right', we should be able to finish Top 6 because talent wise, we're looking better than we were in 2006 when we had a good year.

My point was that if the rest of the side improves we might have a surprisingly good forwardline but it is granted that we don't currently have a potential KPF to burst like Mooney and Lynch did when they won premierships. When you cant win a clearance the forwardline looks alot worse than when you do.