Match Committee - Round 23 vs Brisbane Lions

[Eastdog]

If you were on the Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make for our round 23 match against Brisbane Lions at Gabba?

As always a brief explanation for your changes would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[bulldogtragic]

Bump. Surely Declan Hamilton gets a game. Surely.

[bulldogtragic]

If Roughy is sore rested. Does Bob need a rest on rotation?

In: Campbell, Tom Boyd
Out: Roughy & Bob (rested)

Perhaps one more.

[bornadog]

If Roughy is sore rested. Does Bob need a rest on rotation?

In: Campbell, Tom Boyd
Out: Roughy & Bob (rested)

Perhaps one more.
Bob was rested two weeks ago and Roughy had had one game?

[bulldogtragic]

Bob was rested two weeks ago and Roughy had had one game?

Dunno, just thinking man management. Based on how well I've been guessing it's likely:

In: Hamilton, Kelly, Ayce
Out: Stringer, Crameri, Wallis

Because I seem to have NFI this year! :D

[bornadog]

Was not impressed by Redpath today. Looked totally lost out there

[bulldogtragic]

Was not impressed by Redpath today. Looked totally list out there

We desperately need Tom back. We need big game experience into Tom too. Redders only impact today was corking McIntosh.

[Remi Moses]

Jack had the Liam jones' today,as he continually worked under the ball.

[Bulldog4life]

We desperately need Tom back. We need big game experience into Tom too. Redders only impact today was corking McIntosh.

Who? ha ha

[LostDoggy]

Out-Redders

In-Big Tom

[hujsh]

We desperately need Tom back. We need big game experience into Tom too. Redders only impact today was corking McIntosh.


Who? ha ha
He was really lost today Redders. McIntosh wasn't expecting it at all

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dickson may need a rest? Kicked a couple but thought he looked a bit tired. Dahlhaus has played every game too.

Other than those nit picks, Boyd for Redpath and Roberts for ZC.

[Doc26]

Was not impressed by Redpath today. Looked totally lost out there

Looked a fish out of water, and as you say looked lost, making Tarrant look far better than he should be. Tarrant was North's most effective defender as his teammates did their best to exploit our major weakness tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Would love to see TBoyd and Roberts in.

Only out on the basis of form would be Redpath, otherwise whoever needs a freshen. I reckon Dicko, Wood and Grant may be 3 who may benefit from a week off.

[F'scary]

I think that Wallis and Dahlhaus need a week off, did anyone see them in the last 10 minutes? - they were really sore and hurting.

[azabob]

Resting and injured player aside.

IN: Roberts, Boyd

OUT: Webb, Redpath

I think Cordy offers more flexibility than Webb.

[westbulldog]

[QUOTE=azabob;457781]Resting and injured player aside.

IN: Roberts, Boyd

OUT: Webb, Redpath

agree with these.

[GVGjr]

I suspect there will be a few changes but I'm not sure if we will really throw it open.
We could rest players or even bring back the likes of Minson just in case he is needed during the finals.

[Smads57]

Time to swap big Red for big Boy(d).

Wouldn't surprise me to see Deccy get a call up at the expense of one of the other players with general soreness.

Probably one of our KDs.....Bevo seems happy to play mediums in our backline (and with 14 wins on the board who is going to argue)

[LostDoggy]

In his presser, Bevo said chances wouldn't be taken with anyone sore after today.

Had a chuckle and said he might have some difficult discussions with Ash Hansen because the VFL side may need to be "drained'.

[Rocco Jones]

In his presser, Bevo said chances wouldn't be taken with anyone sore after today.

Had a chuckle and said he might have some difficult discussions with Ash Hansen because the VFL side may need to be "drained'.

Not surprised at that. Beveridge is very much long game. If we don't have anything to win for, why not rest up? Flirting with form thing is very outdated, it's like saying winning a QF is bad because you get a week off.

[Rocco Jones]

If the Crows lose today, winning/losing against the Lions will give us random results. We could possibly lose and come out with a better outcome playing the Crows at Etihad.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I think that Wallis and Dahlhaus need a week off, did anyone see them in the last 10 minutes? - they were really sore and hurting.

God knows they deserve the rest. I think though that they are the sacred cows, that they are a couple that are the king pin of the team with their in and under, linking work and workrate. We are beatable without them, except not by Brisbane.
Out: big Jack
In: big Tom
I wonder if the thinking with big Tom is that by not playing him with the team doing well, it takes the stigma out of his image as the overpaid underperformer and with another pre-season and more maturing, he will slot into a good side with a fresh image and more confidence.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

If the Crows lose today, winning/losing against the Lions will give us random results. We could possibly lose and come out with a better outcome playing the Crows at Etihad.
The final round can be a circus. I'll never forget the last round 1987 v Dees at Western Oval, playing for a spot in the finals. Dees came from behind for an unlikely win and Hawthorn beat Geelong to allow the dees to sneak into the five as it was to make finals. Only Stynes running across the mark in the prelim stopped them from making the granny.

[Rocco Jones]

Beveridge saying he may 'drain' the VFL side. If the Crows lose today, I would definitely go with resting a heap. I think the Crows will do the same actually next week.

Here is the type of side I would go for
B: Z.Cordy, Roberts, Roughead
HB: Biggs, Hamling, M.Boyd
C: Hunter, Macrae, JJ
HF: Webb, Redpath, Hrovat
F: Honeychurch, T.Boyd, Daniel
R: Minson, Jong, Picken
I/C: R.Smith, Darley, Dale
S: Goodes

[azabob]

My concern with resting a whole heap of players is will they be switched on enough for the first final. By resting more than three players I think we are playing a dangerous game.

Especially if we come up against a team who played finals last year and are use to the step up in tempo, game could be over by quarter time.

[Rocco Jones]

My concern with resting a whole heap of players is will they be switched on enough for the first final. By resting more than three players I think we are playing a dangerous game.

Especially if we come up against a team who played finals last year and are use to the step up in tempo, game could be over by quarter time.

So if a team wins a QF, would they been concerned with week off before a prelim? Like if we somehow stole a top 4 spot, would we then play our senior side in a scratch match?

[LostDoggy]

My concern with resting a whole heap of players is will they be switched on enough for the first final. By resting more than three players I think we are playing a dangerous game.

Especially if we come up against a team who played finals last year and are use to the step up in tempo, game could be over by quarter time.

MBoyd and Picken seemed swiched on enough yesterday :)

I think it has to be taken into account that a lot of these guys will need to go Melbourne to Perth to Melbourne to Brisbane to Melbourne and play 3 games in 13 days at the end of a long campaign.

That's a far from ideal build up for finals, especially for such a young team.

I think most of the players who have been up a while and who played v WCE & NM will be monitored very closely and a few will be rested this week.

[Rocco Jones]

Prelim sides with week off during EF week seem pretty switched on. Really massive to be fresh in modern footy. Keep asking yourself, if it's a bad idea, why don't sides who win a QF play their senior side in a practice match in the week off?

[Ghost Dog]

If Bevo doesn't debut a new player in THIS game, I'm going to be pissed. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Adelaide ahead and if they stay winning and we beat Brisbane.. If Richmond win next week over North, then our game is almost irrelevant and we play Adelaide at Ethad no matter what (outside of a 100 point win). Might be a resting scenario.

[The Underdog]

Adelaide ahead and if they stay winning and we beat Brisbane.. If Richmond win next week over North, then our game is almost irrelevant and we play Adelaide at Ethad no matter what (outside of a 100 point win). Might be a resting scenario.

If there's any chance of us having to play in Adelaide that will effect how many we can rest next week. That is the one scenario we need to avoid.

[LostDoggy]

If there's any chance of us having to play in Adelaide that will effect how many we can rest next week. That is the one scenario we need to avoid.

As long as we win next week, Adelaide can't catch us.

Brisbane need to lose to ensure #1 draft pick and are an infighting, broken rabble. We can rest 12 players and win on the bit.

[chef]

No resting players for mine(seriously playing with fire there).

Still got to win this game and win it well.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Roberts hurt his ankle today came back on but couldn't move very well.

[ReLoad]

Ok, so we all need to have a serious talk. The last 2 weeks T Boyd has taken all of about 6 marks and kicked 1 goal.
He hasn't really presented at all, he has had plenty of opportunity to dominate at a substandard AFL level and hasn't (unlike his previous month where i thought he was very good), Redpath for those who haven't watched him closely has busted his hump and has rucked himself silly the last month and more importantly really chased, tackled and presented.

The only way Toyd should get a game is to rest Redpath.

I'm not sure there is room for both of them in the same team as together they will be run off far too easily, and I know that Toyd is the future and all that and we need to get games into him, but c'mon as of right now Red is miles ahead of him.

Outs:
Webb, Z.Cordy, Dahlhouse (rested) Wallis (rested)
Ins:
Roberts, Campbell, Daniel, Jong

[BulldogBelle]

I don't there will be much experimentation with players but maybe with game style. We have played with one ruckman for weeks now and Bevo seems quite easily offended when someone suggests maybe two would be better. He was quite blunt after the loss to WC when asked about the ruck situation. It's hard to argue with the logic. We have been using one ruckman and winning. However, one ruckman means no insurance if Roughy goes down as happened against WC when our single ruckman was injured. This week might be the time to play Roughhead in the ruck and Boyd up forward as a second ruckman, and leave Redpath as a permanent forward. I think Bevo is about the structures and his one ruckman means another runner through the midfield when the game opens up. However....in finals against quality opposition, Roughy goes down with an injury and we're cooked.

I think any changes where we swap out a player for a player will be of little consequence, so rest as many as we like. But if we swap out a runner for an additional genuine ruckman or T Boyd who can be that player, that will be interesting.

[1eyedog]

Ok, so we all need to have a serious talk. The last 2 weeks T Boyd has taken all of about 6 marks and kicked 1 goal.
He hasn't really presented at all, he has had plenty of opportunity to dominate at a substandard AFL level and hasn't (unlike his previous month where i thought he was very good), Redpath for those who haven't watched him closely has busted his hump and has rucked himself silly the last month and more importantly really chased, tackled and presented.

The only way Toyd should get a game is to rest Redpath.

I'm not sure there is room for both of them in the same team as together they will be run off far too easily, and I know that Toyd is the future and all that and we need to get games into him, but c'mon as of right now Red is miles ahead of him.

Outs:
Webb, Z.Cordy, Dahlhouse (rested) Wallis (rested)
Ins:
Roberts, Campbell, Daniel, Jong

Tom shouldn't be playing VFl full stop. Put him in the Senior sides and he'll deliver. It's a bit like Grant in the seconds last year, he's simply not a VFL player.

[bornadog]

Tom shouldn't be playing VFl full stop. Put him in the Senior sides and he'll deliver. It's a bit like Grant in the seconds last year, he's simply not a VFL player.

I agree, hate watching him the VFL.

[jazzadogs]

Tom shouldn't be playing VFl full stop. Put him in the Senior sides and he'll deliver. It's a bit like Grant in the seconds last year, he's simply not a VFL player.

I don't understand that. He was just okay as a key forward in the AFL early in the season, consistently dropping marks and not leading up at the ball.

I get that he is our big investment, and will probably have a better career than Redpath. But right now Redpath is a better AFL footballer than Boyd.

[bornadog]

I don't understand that. He was just okay as a key forward in the AFL early in the season, consistently dropping marks and not leading up at the ball.

I get that he is our big investment, and will probably have a better career than Redpath. But right now Redpath is a better AFL footballer than Boyd.

Redpath was shocking yesterday. 5 disposals, and hardly involved at all. Looked like a lost sheep. At least when Boyd was playing he took the number one backman and he brought the ball to ground when he couldn't mark it.

[Doc26]

Redpath was shocking yesterday. 5 disposals, and hardly involved at all. Looked like a lost sheep. At least when Boyd was playing he took the number one backman and he brought the ball to ground when he couldn't mark it.

And often not just one backman but often double teamed by the opposition. He does need work but he is a more talented option than Jack and his development will progress faster with better talent around him.

Whilst Jack works hard and offers some mobility, with Crameri and Stringer we already have threatening 2nd and 3rd mobile talls. The prospect of an improving Tom alongside Jake and Stewie among others will be a far greater threat to our opposition.

[Sedat]

Flirting with form thing is very outdated, it's like saying winning a QF is bad because you get a week off.
How would any of us know how that feels? :(

Is Hamling a lock for finals? Hasn't had the best 2 weeks to be honest.

[The Doctor]

Redpath must have been watching too many episodes of Lost in Space. He had no idea where he was.

I'm not sure if Boyd's form in the vfl warrants a recall but at least he knows where to position himself and is a far better contested mark

[GVGjr]

And often not just one backman but often double teamed by the opposition. He does need work but he is a more talented option than Jack and his development will progress faster with better talent around him.

Jack is a vigorous player but Tom is a better forward and is a better option in the ruck. He's obviously not quite fitting in with what Bevo wants at the moment.

[Happy Days]

I don't understand that. He was just okay as a key forward in the AFL early in the season, consistently dropping marks and not leading up at the ball.

I get that he is our big investment, and will probably have a better career than Redpath. But right now Redpath is a better AFL footballer than Boyd.

No dice - Redpath is a one trick pony and the one trick isn't even good. The 4 goals in the 4th quarter against Port Adelaide are the worst thing to happen in the history of our club.

I can only see Redpath playing for structural reasons, and if that's the case I'd much rather have the games pumped into Boyd than (frankly) thrown away on Jack.

I know that the coaching staff are big wraps for Jack but Boyd has to play ahead of him.

[LostDoggy]

No dice - Redpath is a one trick pony and the one trick isn't even good. The 4 goals in the 4th quarter against Port Adelaide are the worst thing to happen in the history of our club.

I can only see Redpath playing for structural reasons, and if that's the case I'd much rather have the games pumped into Boyd than (frankly) thrown away on Jack.

I know that the coaching staff are big wraps for Jack but Boyd has to play ahead of him.

Kent Brockman - Ladies and gentleman, I've been to Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, and I can say without hyperbole that Jack Redpath's 4 goals in the last quarter against Port Adelaide is a million times worse than all of them put together."

[LostDoggy]

Redpath was shocking yesterday. 5 disposals, and hardly involved at all. Looked like a lost sheep. At least when Boyd was playing he took the number one backman and he brought the ball to ground when he couldn't mark it.

Almost dare I say it Liam Jonesesque :p

[jazzadogs]

No dice - Redpath is a one trick pony and the one trick isn't even good. The 4 goals in the 4th quarter against Port Adelaide are the worst thing to happen in the history of our club.

I can only see Redpath playing for structural reasons, and if that's the case I'd much rather have the games pumped into Boyd than (frankly) thrown away on Jack.

I know that the coaching staff are big wraps for Jack but Boyd has to play ahead of him.

I haven't seen a match in the flesh since May so acknowledge that there's stuff I don't see, but I just don't see it as such a cut and dry decision. Boyd is not a clearly better player AT THE MOMENT than Redpath. Boyd does not significantly improve our structure AT THE MOMENT more than Red.

Although Redpath hasn't been the most damaging forward himself, the forward line has been working extremely well. His ability and willingness to lead up the ground is far better than Toyd, and his defensive pressure is slightly better IMO.

I don't like the argument that Toyd should play because he's going to be better long term. I want to win, and if the MC feel that Red allows them to play with the forward structure they prefer then I say he gets the game.

[Ghost Dog]

No dice - Redpath is a one trick pony and the one trick isn't even good. The 4 goals in the 4th quarter against Port Adelaide are the worst thing to happen in the history of our club.

I can only see Redpath playing for structural reasons, and if that's the case I'd much rather have the games pumped into Boyd than (frankly) thrown away on Jack.

I know that the coaching staff are big wraps for Jack but Boyd has to play ahead of him.

Wow, that's not a harsh assessment at all. Surely much worse than Ross Oakley, Rhode era, or Robodog.

[Raw Toast]

Happy to drain the Footscray side, unfortunately for Ash (but that's why it was great to get the double chance there as well).

If I was on the selection committee I'd only take Roughead up if he's cherry ripe, no way I'd take up Crameri either unless he was also 100% (he looked pretty sore at the end of the game after dodgy backline play). In addition I'd be be tempted to rest Wallis and anyone else who might be close to cooked.

I'd bring in Goodes, for a hard body in the contest, Caleb Daniel back in for for his class at the contest. I see no need to drop Webb, despite the fact that he's finding it harder to impact games at AFL level when played up forward. Give him another game unless there's a compelling reason to replace him. Dale might come in for another run, and I don't mind Ayce coming in either, though not as a forward for mine, and wouldn't complain about another debutant either!

In terms of the Redpath/Boyd debate. I think Redpath played himself out of the side, at least for a week, on Saturday. He's been doing a lot of running, so if it was an issue of energy then we need to have him rested. But while Boyd hasn't been setting the world on fire, I'm in the camp of people who think that he's better suited for finals footy than Redpath. There are complications however. If teams park the bus against us, then we need to be able to do two things:
1) Lower the eyes and hit leading targets
2) Have someone who can take some contested marks from balls bombed to the top of the square, and at the very least, make sure the ball comes to ground.

Redpath is clearly better, at the moment, at leading than Boyd, but Boyd can take big contested marks (even if he's a year or two from dominating that way), and when he focusses on it, is much better at bringing the ball to ground. We have other players who can lead like Redpath, but we don't have someone who can consistently challenge for long bombs like Boyd. The problem is, that if we do play Boyd, we need to make sure that the players bringing the ball into the 50 still generally lower their eyes, and that we have lots of forward movement, because if we become Boyd-centric - like we did sometimes earlier in the season - that's not going to help him or us, and could stuff up more things than it fixes. I think Beveridge has us playing intelligent enough footy for that not to happen, but can see the structural advantages of Redpath that way, even though I'd prefer Boyd at the moment, and think he might help us hopefully wreak some havoc in the finals...

[Ozza]

No idea what the changes could or should be this week, but would assume that a few players who come in sore and who are showing some fatigue, will miss a week.

Brisbane are surely not going to do the wrong thing by themselves, and us, by trying to win!! Would be utter madness from them if they don't send off a handful of players for surgery now!

What I would like to see, is Tom Boyd come back in to the side. I think he gives us a more genuine second ruck option. And should we need Roughead to go back, Boyd can genuinely ruck for us. On the weekend, should Roughead been trod on like he was, in the first quarter rather than the dying minutes - or should Hamling have gone down at some point, we would have been really up against it. I feel like we were pretty lucky to get away with the weekend's selected side.

[Greystache]

This weekly thread has almost become redundant under Beveridge, there's no way to predict what will happen, and it's difficult to see the logic behind the decisions even in hindsight, yet somehow we keep winning. As someone who likes to analyse the game in detail I find myself just rolling along and enjoying the ride this season.

Changes that I think make sense (so you can rule them out)

In- Roberts, Boyd

Out- Hamling, Redpath

Seeing as we look like playing Roughead as a ruckman I feel far more comfortable having Roberts as a key defender than Hamling, who has been pretty poor the last 2 weeks. Redpath isn't impacting the game in the air, and while I think his work rate up the ground has been impressive, he's not having enough impact. Boyd is better suited to finals and actually presented up the ground and marked on the lead quite well yesterday for Footscray.

So our actual changes will probably be; In- Pearce, Dale, Hamilton; Out- Crameri, Roughead, JJ :)

[Ozza]

Agree with the above sentiment.

One thing I would say is that I'm in Hamling's corner at this stage. I like him as a player and think he has battled pretty manfully given we have played so small in recent weeks and he has played on monsters. I'd like to see both him and Roberts in, which probably gives Hamling the chance to let Roberts take the biggest, and him the second.

[LostDoggy]

The way our backline has set up in the last couple, Hamling has been given huge tasks. He is the guy who carries a lot of extra weight because of our deficiencies. I think he is a smart and efficient defender - he and Morris work well together.

I'd like to see him in the team with Roberts, so that there is a little less pressure on him to be primarily responsible for the main gorilla, at his size he really should be taking the 2nd tall at most.

[Ghost Dog]

This weekly thread has almost become redundant under Beveridge, there's no way to predict what will happen, and it's difficult to see the logic behind the decisions even in hindsight, yet somehow we keep winning. As someone who likes to analyse the game in detail I find myself just rolling along and enjoying the ride this season.

Changes that I think make sense (so you can rule them out)

In- Roberts, Boyd

Out- Hamling, Redpath

Seeing as we look like playing Roughead as a ruckman I feel far more comfortable having Roberts as a key defender than Hamling, who has been pretty poor the last 2 weeks. Redpath isn't impacting the game in the air, and while I think his work rate up the ground has been impressive, he's not having enough impact. Boyd is better suited to finals and actually presented up the ground and marked on the lead quite well yesterday for Footscray.

So our actual changes will probably be; In- Pearce, Dale, Hamilton; Out- Crameri, Roughead, JJ :)

Well, we don't always win. Unless you go with the resting theory, and I'm not that convinced, we were spanked by Eagles.

[Greystache]

Well, we don't always win. Unless you go with the resting theory, and I'm not that convinced, we were spanked by Eagles.

We've won 9 of our last 11 games, that's as winning as any team going around.

[soupman]

What are the odds that Matt Fuller and/or Hamilton play this week assuming they are fit? Wouldn't surprise me, especially if we rest Murphy and a couple of others.

[Ghost Dog]

We've won 9 of our last 11 games, that's as winning as any team going around.

I don't disagree, but the Eagles loss was telling, in the least that Picken and Boyd are bedrocks of our side. Anyway, in Bevo we trust.

I'm reading about Caleb Daniel and I'm so excited to have this young man.

" It’s rare that a player is elite in both sprint speed and endurance, but Daniel is. "

Dayne Zorko is only 3cm taller and seems to be doing well. Love to see Daniel included if possible. Hearing great things from the VFL.

[LostDoggy]

What are the odds that Matt Fuller and/or Hamilton play this week assuming they are fit? Wouldn't surprise me, especially if we rest Murphy and a couple of others.

I'm not against this but hope it wouldn't be done just so our "players played" stat looks even more impressive.

This week is the big opportunity for those on the fringe of the finals team. Lets see Daniel, TBoyd, ZC, Webb etc given good playing minutes to see where they're at within the context of the team.

[Greystache]

I don't disagree, but the Eagles loss was telling, in the least that Picken and Boyd are bedrocks of our side. Anyway, in Bevo we trust.

I'm reading about Caleb Daniel and I'm so excited to have this young man.

" It’s rare that a player is elite in both sprint speed and endurance, but Daniel is. "

Dayne Zorko is only 3cm taller and seems to be doing well. Love to see Daniel included if possible. Hearing great things from the VFL.

Where did that quote come from? At the draft camp he was one of the slowest players tested, including the ruckmen.

[Ghost Dog]

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-caleb-daniel/

[Greystache]

http://boundforglorynews.com/2014-draft-profile-caleb-daniel/

That's weird they wrote that, he wasn't even close. The top 10 run in the 2.8's for 20m

[GVGjr]

Where did that quote come from? At the draft camp he was one of the slowest players tested, including the ruckmen.

Zaine Cordy aside all the players we drafted last year had excellent beep tests but were average in the sprints and that includes Roarke Smith.

Daniel was about middle of the road with his sprints, very good with the agility test, excellent with the beep test with a 16.1. Middle of the road with the repeat sprints and from memory not a great 3km time trial.

[Rocco Jones]

Would we be favourites with a team like this?

B: Z.Cordy, Roughead, M.Boyd
HB: Biggs, Hamling, JJ
C: Hunter, Macrae, Dahlhaus
HF: Webb, Redpath, Honeychurch
F: Grant, T. Boyd, Daniel
R: Campbell, Jong, Picken
I/C: Darley, Dale, Goodes
S: Wallis

[LostDoggy]

We'd be $1.05.

Bris will lose #1 draft pick if they win, and they are a beaten up, infighting shambles just looking for the season to be over.

I reckon your named team would beat them by 10 goals.

All of the fringe players promoted would be jumping out of their skin to impress on the eve of the finals.

[comrade]

Would we be favourites with a team like this?

B: Z.Cordy, Roughead, M.Boyd
HB: Biggs, Hamling, JJ
C: Hunter, Macrae, Dahlhaus
HF: Webb, Redpath, Honeychurch
F: Grant, T. Boyd, Daniel
R: Campbell, Jong, Picken
I/C: Darley, Dale, Goodes
S: Wallis

Replace Darley and Goodes with Fuller and Hamilton and we're set.

[Rocco Jones]

Replace Darley and Goodes with Fuller and Hamilton and we're set.

Haha. They can be traveling emergences. If North win, Fuller and Hamilton in for Wallis and Dahl.

[jeemak]

That's weird they wrote that, he wasn't even close. The top 10 run in the 2.8's for 20m

He admitted in an article in The Age that he's an horrendous tester, though was mainly talking about the 3km trial.

[LostDoggy]

Having said that, I would be surprised and disappointed if Bevo departed from one of his repeated philosophies of granting senior games to players who have earnt promotion through performance.

I don't support a Fuller getting a senior game for statistical reasons.

That would smack of arrogance and not benefit our culture.

[Rocco Jones]

Having said that, I would be surprised and disappointed if Bevo departed from one of his repeated philosophies of granting senior games to players who have earnt promotion through performance.

I don't support a Fuller getting a senior game for statistical reasons.

That would smack of arrogance and not benefit our culture.

I (and I assume comrade) was joking. I wouldn't give either a game, especially Fuller. Pearce, Minson and Ayce aren't in that 22. They could play.

[boydogs]

Dayne Zorko is only 3cm taller

I'm getting 7cm

http://www.lions.com.au/player-profile/dayne-zorko
http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/player-profile/caleb-daniel

[Go_Dogs]

Like others, no point guessing.

I'd really like to see us play a few guys like Daniel, Dale and others who have played 3-5+ games to see if any of them demand to play finals. Ideally, Roberts comes back to see if he can impact finals. I'd also like to see Boyd in. I can't actually determine who I'd move out though, other than whoever needs a rest.

[Torpedo]

Gabba is about same size as MCG so is it worth trialling playing a CHF along with a FF in the traditional sense? I think both Red and Toyd played against Richmond at the MCG early in the season. Also Crameri looked absolutely spent by end of game, couldn't kick 20 metres to goal. Rest him and bring in T Boyd. Worth a try?

[azabob]

Redpath didn't play against Richmond.

[Ozza]

Gabba is about same size as MCG so is it worth trialling playing a CHF along with a FF in the traditional sense? I think both Red and Toyd played against Richmond at the MCG early in the season. Also Crameri looked absolutely spent by end of game, couldn't kick 20 metres to goal. Rest him and bring in T Boyd. Worth a try?

It was T.Boyd and Ayce that day.

[bornadog]

It was T.Boyd and Ayce that day.

and Minson and Roughead.

[Bulldog Joe]

and Minson and Roughead.

Not Minson.

Will returned the next week against GWS at the expense of Ayce.

[jeemak]

In round 2 against the Tigers Cordy mimed football for most of the day. Minson and Redpath were also in the team.

It was predominantly Roughead in the second half against Melbourne, after Cordy stank in the first half. Boyd was subbed out that day for stinking it up even worse than Cordy which was no mean feat. Minson returned the following week against GWS.

[craigsahibee]

I'm flying to Brisbane this weekend for the game. Not sure if I'm going to get to see the Western Bulldogs or Footscray Bulldogs. Either way, I hope I can maintain my perfect interstate record of 5 from 5.

[Greystache]

In round 2 against the Tigers Cordy mimed football for most of the day. Minson and Redpath were also in the team.

It was predominantly Roughead in the second half against Melbourne, after Cordy stank in the first half. Boyd was subbed out that day for stinking it up even worse than Cordy which was no mean feat. Minson returned the following week against GWS.

Redpath was dropped after WCE in round 1, he didn't play again until round 14 against Carlton. Cordy played as the other key forward with Boyd, the first of 2 consecutive games where he went kickless and markless for the entire game.

[jeemak]

Redpath was dropped after WCE in round 1, he didn't play again until round 14 against Carlton. Cordy played as the other key forward with Boyd, the first of 2 consecutive games where he went kickless and markless for the entire game.

I meant Roughead!

It was good to see they eventually rewarded that form with an extended stint as first ruck.

[Bulldog4life]

I wouldn't be surprised if we play both Redpath and Boyd this week together with a first ruck of Campbell or Roughy. Will depend on weather I would imagine too.

[bornadog]

Not Minson.

Will returned the next week against GWS at the expense of Ayce.

Against the Tigers Minson played, as well as Roughead, Cordy, Tom Boyd

[LostDoggy]

All of this talk of our early season structures, and all the big men used in a given side, makes me think of how flexible the MC have been despite seeming to have quite firm philosophies. The more you look at their performance this year, the more impressed you have to be.

[bornadog]

I'm flying to Brisbane this weekend for the game. Not sure if I'm going to get to see the Western Bulldogs or Footscray Bulldogs. Either way, I hope I can maintain my perfect interstate record of 5 from 5.


Open Training


The Bulldogs will host an open training session in Brisbane for fans on Friday 4 September at the Gabba, at 3:45pm. Entry is via Gate 2 off Stanley St, gates open at 3:30pm.

[Bulldog Joe]

Against the Tigers Minson played, as well as Roughead, Cordy, Tom Boyd

Sorry BAD I thought we were discussing the Melbourne game.

Minson did play against Richmond.

[LostDoggy]

Happy to drain the Footscray side, unfortunately for Ash (but that's why it was great to get the double chance there as well).

If I was on the selection committee I'd only take Roughead up if he's cherry ripe, no way I'd take up Crameri either unless he was also 100% (he looked pretty sore at the end of the game after dodgy backline play). In addition I'd be be tempted to rest Wallis and anyone else who might be close to cooked.

I'd bring in Goodes, for a hard body in the contest, Caleb Daniel back in for for his class at the contest. I see no need to drop Webb, despite the fact that he's finding it harder to impact games at AFL level when played up forward. Give him another game unless there's a compelling reason to replace him. Dale might come in for another run, and I don't mind Ayce coming in either, though not as a forward for mine, and wouldn't complain about another debutant either!

In terms of the Redpath/Boyd debate. I think Redpath played himself out of the side, at least for a week, on Saturday. He's been doing a lot of running, so if it was an issue of energy then we need to have him rested. But while Boyd hasn't been setting the world on fire, I'm in the camp of people who think that he's better suited for finals footy than Redpath. There are complications however. If teams park the bus against us, then we need to be able to do two things:
1) Lower the eyes and hit leading targets
2) Have someone who can take some contested marks from balls bombed to the top of the square, and at the very least, make sure the ball comes to ground.

Redpath is clearly better, at the moment, at leading than Boyd, but Boyd can take big contested marks (even if he's a year or two from dominating that way), and when he focusses on it, is much better at bringing the ball to ground. We have other players who can lead like Redpath, but we don't have someone who can consistently challenge for long bombs like Boyd. The problem is, that if we do play Boyd, we need to make sure that the players bringing the ball into the 50 still generally lower their eyes, and that we have lots of forward movement, because if we become Boyd-centric - like we did sometimes earlier in the season - that's not going to help him or us, and could stuff up more things than it fixes. I think Beveridge has us playing intelligent enough footy for that not to happen, but can see the structural advantages of Redpath that way, even though I'd prefer Boyd at the moment, and think he might help us hopefully wreak some havoc in the finals...
Great post RT :)

[kruder]

i reckon we will rest two best 22 like against West Coast. i'd say Dickson and Dahl are due...

[MrMahatma]

I think Roughie in the Rick is our finals x-factor. I'd play him and Boyd and see how we go against Martin who is going ok.

[divvydan]

IN:Goodes, Roberts, Daniel
Out:Murphy, M Boyd, Morris

[bulldogtragic]

Not surprising.

[Mantis]

3 defenders out.. Only one in.

Don't mind the 'old' guys having a break... Nice to see Roberts back too.

[bulldogtragic]

Bob was rested two weeks ago and Roughy had had one game?

Looks like Bob is taking it easy then.

[LostDoggy]

Quite modest with the changes really. No TBoyd?

Maybe we are setting up to absolutely decimate Bris and get to 5th!!

[ratsmac]

It's a preview to what our backline will look like when Bob, Moz and Boyd retire.

[Axe Man]

Might as well have rested Picken as well so we would have no +100 game players!

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Wow! I think Saturday's team will categorically be our youngest in living memory. I would be interested what the average number of games is... go on someone work it out... please. :eek:

[boydogs]

3 defenders out.. Only one in.

Zaine Cordy was sub last week, this week he's in the starting 18

[Rocco Jones]

Key defenders: Hamling, Roberts, Roughead (when not rucking)
Medium defenders: Z Cordy, Wood
Small defenders: JJ, Biggs, Webb, B.Goodes (if needed)

I think we are right for numbers down back.

[Remi Moses]

No great shock there .

[merantau]

The MC has set our young team a challenge. Let's see who puts his hand up.

[SlimPickens]

Goodes as sub? Crash in once the heat is out of the contest?

[bornadog]

Goodes as sub? Crash in once the heat is out of the contest?

I don't get why he is playing? Is it his last game farewell?

[Axe Man]

I don't get why he is playing? Is it his last game farewell?

He has to drive the bus to the airport since he's the only one old enough. ;)

[The Underdog]

I don't get why he is playing? Is it his last game farewell?

Clearly he's getting set for the finals. Given how team selection has gone this year, he's a certain starter.

[Rocco Jones]

Goodes is surely there because of his mature body/the side is super young. I don't necessairly agree with the call, but I see the logic. I would have played Jong.

[jazzadogs]

I really don't understand the negativity towards Goodes. His VFL finals series last year was outstanding, and his early season AFL form was of a high quality.


He offers more than Pearce imo.

[comrade]

Goodes is surely there because of his mature body/the side is super young. I don't necessairly agree with the call, but I see the logic. I would have played Jong.

Jong gets pummelled and rag dolled every game.

Goodes has surely been included as an old head with a strong body. I'm actually glad he gets to have one final day in the sun (literally).

Love the fact that Roberts, Hamling and Cordy are playing together.

[Rocco Jones]

Jong gets pummelled and rag dolled every game.

On that point, I really believe Jong's strengths contradict each other.

He goes in super hard and has explosive pace in tight. His body gets sore from all the pummeling meaning he can't see his offensive weapon.

Not sure if we already do so, but I feel we have to really nurse Jong. Make sure he is cherry ripe when he is playing.

[bornadog]

I really don't understand the negativity towards Goodes. His VFL finals series last year was outstanding, and his early season AFL form was of a high quality.


He offers more than Pearce imo.

He is excellent at VFL level, but not up to AFL standard.

[The Pie Man]

Brother & I had a laugh tonight about the potential dilemma a Goodes 3 goal best on performance would present.

Don't mind him playing this one honestly

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hamilton stiff. Must be keeping him fresh for next week ;)

I would have been tempted to rest somebody like Crameri, Wallis or Dahl - all three have been working themselves into the ground for a while now. But I guess if they're A-OK, they might as well play.

Is Campbell playing VFL?

[comrade]

Hamilton stiff. Must be keeping him fresh for next week ;)

I would have been tempted to rest somebody like Crameri, Wallis or Dahl - all three have been working themselves into the ground for a while now. But I guess if they're A-OK, they might as well play.

Is Campbell playing VFL?

Campbell is named in the starting 18 for Footscray and is an emergency for the seniors.

[jeemak]

Hamilton stiff. Must be keeping him fresh for next week ;)

I would have been tempted to rest somebody like Crameri, Wallis or Dahl - all three have been working themselves into the ground for a while now. But I guess if they're A-OK, they might as well play.

Is Campbell playing VFL?

I think all are hardened sufficiently to cope now. Crameri seemed to struggle early and I think it was a lack of preseason playing that hurt him.

On the other two, I've been super pleased with how hard they can continue to push themselves. Dahl in particular is just a machine now.

[jazzadogs]

He is excellent at VFL level, but not up to AFL standard.

You've repeated that point multiple times, but I feel that his start to this season was AFL quality at times. He averaged 12 disposals, three tackles and three clearances across six games (three of which were significantly sub affected). His best is AFL quality, the difficulty is getting his best consistently.

This weekend, and in the coming weeks if his form justifies it, I won't be upset to see Goodes in the side. Yes we are a developing side, but we are also a side in contention for the flag.

Having said all that, I see him as a direct swap for Matty Boyd this week and anticipate he will be straight out next week regardless of form.

[G-Mo77]

I'm fine with the Goodes selection. 3 of our most experienced players out so it's a sensible decision to bring an older player back in.

Happy to see Roberts in, needed at least one game before finals. Would have preferred 2 but who am I to question the MC.

[westdog54]

It's a preview to what our backline will look like when Bob, Moz and Boyd retire.

Yep agree. Good chance for Wood and JJ to step up and take a leadership role. They'll have to organise the backline.

[Webby]

Don't know if anyone's noticed but we've caught a break with the Brisbane weather, here.

It's 26 degrees up there today and some of us had been fearing a 30 degree, humid day tomorrow. Hardly ideal preparation for a final!

However it looks like being 22. Happy days!

[Mofra]

Love the fact that Roberts, Hamling and Cordy are playing together.
Ditto - might see that combo together a fair bit in the future.
I imagine Zaine makes way for Morris next week but hopefully he starts on the ground and gets a full game.

[always right]

He is excellent at VFL level, but not up to AFL standard.

He's AFL standard......just at the lower end. Plenty like him running around. Pleased to see him get a final game and he will be handy with our bigger bodied experienced players out.

[bornadog]

He's AFL standard......just at the lower end. Plenty like him running around. Pleased to see him get a final game and he will be handy with our bigger bodied experienced players out.

We will agree to disagree.

Good luck to him and hope he proves me wrong tomorrow.

[Webby]

The Daniel Cross thing got me thinking last night. Just in context with Brett Goodes. We essentially delisted Crossy and brought in Goodes.

Cross went to Melbourne, played two very good years and is a very similar player to Goodes - but better...

On its own, moving Cross on made sense, but following it up with the Goodes promotion was puzzling in hindsight..

[bornadog]

The Daniel Cross thing got me thinking last night. Just in context with Brett Goodes. We essentially delisted Crossy and brought in Goodes.

Cross went to Melbourne, played two very good years and is a very similar player to Goodes - but better...

On its own, moving Cross on made sense, but following it up with the Goodes promotion was puzzling in hindsight..

That was the point I made a few years ago.

[Sedat]

The Daniel Cross thing got me thinking last night. Just in context with Brett Goodes. We essentially delisted Crossy and brought in Goodes.
The decision to delist Crossy gave us an extra ND selection to play with, which we used on Mitch Honeychurch. I know we upgraded Goodes in the same draft but it's fair to assume that we would have upgraded Goodes anyway and therefore lost the Honeychurch pick had we kept Crossy on for an extra season with us. None of that is to mention the extra games and development put into our emerging mids in the last 2 years, which would not have been available to them had we kept Crossy.

[bornadog]

The decision to delist Crossy gave us an extra ND selection to play with, which we used on Mitch Honeychurch. I know we upgraded Goodes in the same draft but it's fair to assume that we would have upgraded Goodes anyway and therefore lost the Honeychurch pick had we kept Crossy on for an extra season with us. None of that is to mention the extra games and development put into our emerging mids in the last 2 years, which would not have been available to them had we kept Crossy.

what we should have done was picked a young devoloping ruckman or Kpp as a rookie instead of Goodes

[Webby]

The decision to delist Crossy gave us an extra ND selection to play with, which we used on Mitch Honeychurch. I know we upgraded Goodes in the same draft but it's fair to assume that we would have upgraded Goodes anyway and therefore lost the Honeychurch pick had we kept Crossy on for an extra season with us. None of that is to mention the extra games and development put into our emerging mids in the last 2 years, which would not have been available to them had we kept Crossy.

I suppose another pro was that Goode' elevation demonstrated to our rookies and then incoming Footscray listed players that WBFC provides progression opportunities.

On balance, i think you've turned me, Sedat.

[F'scary]

just a quick note that I have really enjoyed this thread - it has been WOOF at its best or close to it.

[ledge]

what we should have done was picked a young devoloping ruckman or Kpp as a rookie instead of Goodes
Minson was AA back then, Campbell was coming on and Cordy was building , we did bring in Boyd last year, had Redpath on our books and had a young Stringer and Crameri.
So we thought we had both of those positions well covered back then.

[LostDoggy]

Paraphrasing G Cornes...

The Afl needs to stop teams cheating this time of year by dropping players like Fremantle, North and the Bulldogs have done this week. They aren't even trying to win.

Knob of the highest order Graham, you have no idea about football outside of the crows.

[Go_Dogs]

Ha, interesting one. I suppose if his beloved Crows had to fly to Perth and then Brisbane in the space of 14 days they wouldn't let any of their 32+ year olds have a rest - even when one of them had copped a bit of an injury during the week.

[merantau]

Cornies is going corny in his old age.

[jeemak]

I'm confounded by the fact cheating as he sees it is exposing us to a greater likelihood of travelling to Adelaide for our first final.

Wouldn't you cheat to gain an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

[GVGjr]

what we should have done was picked a young devoloping ruckman or Kpp as a rookie instead of Goodes

It's certainly the age thing that seems stuck with you about his selection. I've made this point before but you had no problem when a declining Mitch Hahn was made a rookie but the selection of Goodes who was improving as a footballer never sat well with you.

We didn't have an aging list so to me Goodes has been a reasonable selection especially coming off the rookie list.
It would have been unfair to not give Daniel Cross the chance to be a regular senior footballer elsewhere.

[lemmon]

The Daniel Cross thing got me thinking last night. Just in context with Brett Goodes. We essentially delisted Crossy and brought in Goodes.

Cross went to Melbourne, played two very good years and is a very similar player to Goodes - but better...

On its own, moving Cross on made sense, but following it up with the Goodes promotion was puzzling in hindsight..

Would Cross have been happy to play reserves as often as Goodes has? I think we can all acknowledge Goodes has often been overlooked for a younger guy when his form was deserving of a recall, but he's taken to the role of reserve team mentor comfortably and has come into the seniors when required and been a big body stop gap.

I love Crossy and he still bleeds Footscray but Goodes has been a terrific team man and mentor for the younger guys without worrying about his own place. I can't imagine someone as competitive as Crossy so willingly playing reserves

[Rocco Jones]

I am not fussed with the ruck situation. I don't think drafting young rucks is very economical/smart 'moneyball' wise.

Let's look at the top ruckman in the game:
Goldstein- #37 in ND
NCI Nat- #2 in ND
Sandilands- rookie draft selection when he was 20
Martin- traded after not getting opportunites (only cost picks 53 and 76)
Jacobs- traded to go home/not getting opportunities (cost pick 33 and 67)
Mumford- the ultimate to my point. Rookie selection when he was 22, traded due to lack of opportunity and then traded again for pick 35

Over the last few years, I see these 6 as the top bracket in the ruck. Only 1 of them was drafted in the top 35. The position is perfect to trade for/sign as free agents. They take years to develop. You're basically paying to warehouse them on your list for 4-5 years. Most of all, there are only 18 spots for a 1st ruck in the league. You can take advantage of rucks not getting an opportunity.

[Rocco Jones]

I know this is a MC thread so won't railroad it too much but compare the ruck to the top 5-6 mids in the comp and the highest pick there is Fyfe at 20. I am a massive believer in being calculated with your picks, ignoring the too small thing, can NEVER have too many gun runners/mids.

[GVGjr]

Would Cross have been happy to play reserves as often as Goodes has? I think we can all acknowledge Goodes has often been overlooked for a younger guy when his form was deserving of a recall, but he's taken to the role of reserve team mentor comfortably and has come into the seniors when required and been a big body stop gap.

I love Crossy and he still bleeds Footscray but Goodes has been a terrific team man and mentor for the younger guys without worrying about his own place. I can't imagine someone as competitive as Crossy so willingly playing reserves

That's how I see it. Cross was great for us but giving him the chance to be a regular senior footballer elsewhere was the right thing to do.

[soupman]

I am not fussed with the ruck situation. I don't think drafting young rucks is very economical/smart 'moneyball' wise.

Let's look at the top ruckman in the game:
Goldstein- #37 in ND
NCI Nat- #2 in ND
Sandilands- rookie draft selection when he was 20
Martin- traded after not getting opportunites (only cost picks 53 and 76)
Jacobs- traded to go home/not getting opportunities (cost pick 33 and 67)
Mumford- the ultimate to my point. Rookie selection when he was 22, traded due to lack of opportunity and then traded again for pick 35

Over the last few years, I see these 6 as the top bracket in the ruck. Only 1 of them was drafted in the top 35. The position is perfect to trade for/sign as free agents. They take years to develop. You're basically paying to warehouse them on your list for 4-5 years. Most of all, there are only 18 spots for a 1st ruck in the league. You can take advantage of rucks not getting an opportunity.

Completely agree. Easiest way to clog up your list is to draft an 18 year old ruckman that you can't even begin to assess for 3-4 years because his body isn't ready.

[LostDoggy]

I also agree in broad terms, but every prospective selection needs to be assessed individually.

This year there are two 200 cm twins, Harry and Ben McKay, who are mobile ruckmen/key position players.

I would not be unhappy or surprised if either were taken by us in the first round.

[LostDoggy]

I'm confounded by the fact cheating as he sees it is exposing us to a greater likelihood of travelling to Adelaide for our first final.

Wouldn't you cheat to gain an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

The fact is we only changed 3 players, which is below our averaged I would guess, didn't north change 9?. He also said the Lions are very likely to win and more likely to beat the dogs than the crows are of beating Geelong. Tosser.

[bornadog]

The fact is we only changed 3 players, which is below our averaged I would guess, didn't north change 9?. He also said the Lions are very likely to win and more likely to beat the dogs than the crows are of beating Geelong. Tosser.

And Murphy has injury concerns, Morris still having problems with Achilles, so taking precautions which only leaves Boyd with general soreness.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COG9wY9VEAAenzF.jpg

[The Underdog]

As long as we win next week, Adelaide can't catch us.

Brisbane need to lose to ensure #1 draft pick and are an infighting, broken rabble. We can rest 12 players and win on the bit.

You were saying?

[LostDoggy]

You were saying?

Fair call. I should've known better. No such thing as a certainty in R23.