Silly Season (post home and away season trade period) suggestions.

[bulldogtragic]

Not rumours, but ideas, suggestions, guesses and/or Hypotheticals. Not about rumours, you can make it all up,

For example, Daniel Rich for pick 18 and a player and/or pick swaps.

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorns-matt-spangher-ready-to-return-to-afl-20150902-gjdvk6.html
Come over to the kennel Matty, you know it makes sense - we might even have the number 27 jumper available in 2016 :D

Exchange of 5th round picks with the Hawks should do the trick - unless of course we finish ahead of them ;)

[Happy Days]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorns-matt-spangher-ready-to-return-to-afl-20150902-gjdvk6.html
Come over to the kennel Matty, you know it makes sense - we might even have the number 27 jumper available in 2016 :D

Exchange of 5th round picks with the Hawks should do the trick - unless of course we finish ahead of them ;)

"Hawthorn cult figure Matt Spangher has declared himself ready if the two-time reigning AFL premiers need him through the finals."

Well if that isn't the saddest thing I've ever read.

[Sedat]

"Hawthorn cult figure Matt Spangher has declared himself ready if the two-time reigning AFL premiers need him through the finals."

Well if that isn't the saddest thing I've ever read.
Jokes aside, he is the best tall utility you can have on your list. He is selfless and courageous, completely team-oriented, knows and understands team defence intimately, and he hardly ever gets beaten. If a Lake or Frawley go down for Hawthorn in the finals, they won't miss a beat. People can't see past the long hair and cult status - he is a very smart and capable role player.

There won't be any gorilla key defenders available at the end of this season - Spang would be perfect insurance for our list (even as a rookie if not on the main list) while there are still question marks on Talia, Roberts and Hamling long-term, Morris short-term, and Roughy from a best-value-to-the-team perspective. Plus he comes from successful organisations - not only has he played in a flag himself, he's been part of 4 premiership squads for 3 different teams. I would draft a key defender in the ND as a priority as well.

[EasternWest]

Jokes aside, he is the best tall utility you can have on your list. He is selfless and courageous, completely team-oriented, knows and understands team defence intimately, and he hardly ever gets beaten. If a Lake or Frawley go down for Hawthorn in the finals, they won't miss a beat. People can't see past the long hair and cult status - he is a very smart and capable role player.

There won't be any gorilla key defenders available at the end of this season - Spang would be perfect insurance for our list (even as a rookie if not on the main list) while there are still question marks on Talia, Roberts and Hamling long-term, Morris short-term, and Roughy from a best-value-to-the-team perspective. Plus he comes from successful organisations - not only has he played in a flag himself, he's been part of 4 premiership squads for 3 different teams. I would draft a key defender in the ND as a priority as well.

I've never got the Spangher ridicule. He's a good player.

[bulldogtragic]

What about a random three way trade?

Dixon wants to Port. Port want Dixon.
GCS wants Bennell out.
Dogs want talent.

Dogs pick 15 (or so or trade down for a lower pick and player to on trade) & Minson - Bennell and Schultz
GCS Bennell & Dixon & pick 40 - pick 15 and pick 10 and Minson
Port pick 10 & Schultz - Dixon and pick 40.

[azabob]

Only problem with your trade is the Dogs end up with Bennell.

[bulldogtragic]

Only problem with your trade is the Dogs end up with Bennell.

I'm just trying to get imaginations working. Bucks just passed on Bennell on national TV. Interesting.

[LostDoggy]

Definitely don't want Schultz. He's going to Freo anyway.

[Bulldog Joe]

Only problem with your trade is the Dogs end up with Bennell.

We also end up with some guy called Schultz who is not John.
Not sure I see much value in Jay Schulz either.

[Remi Moses]

Schulz is finished, and I reckon John could kick it further now.

[1eyedog]

Jay Schulz? 'I see nothing!'



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4nkSh7Q

[ledge]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

[bulldogtragic]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

Not for mine. He can take a speccy, but nothing else consistently. Apparently wanting well over $500,000 a year too!

[Greystache]

Not for mine. He can take a speccy, but nothing else consistently. Apparently wanting well over $500,000 a year too!

Seems a flog too. Given minimum salary cap spend he'd have been getting well overs his whole career.

[Ozza]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

No NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!

Jeremy Howe - apart from taking screamers - can do stuff all on a footy field. He screams 'Gold Coast Suns acquisition'. Flashy, but no substance as a player. Like Jared Brennan but far less talented.

[bulldogtragic]

Seems a flog too. Given minimum salary cap spend he'd have been getting well overs his whole career.

That's the part I don't get from him. He's been on a good wicket and when he gets to the end of a contract starts putting them to the sword. What Melbourne need is some loyalty from blokes like him. Guys like him also have to realise it's going to take over $1,000,000 a year to keep Hogan and playing alongside a future gun means taking a good offer, not demanding overs with no real runs in the board. I suppose we are talking about Melbourne and their 'culture'.

[ledge]

Interesting times, Jack Watts might be on the move too, wouldn't fit in our team at all, not the kind to tackle.

[bornadog]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

Also Jack Watts not asssured to be at Melbourne as well.

[Greystache]

That's the part I don't get from him. He's been on a good wicket and when he gets to the end of a contract starts putting them to the sword. What Melbourne need is some loyalty from blokes like him. Guys like him also have to realise it's going to take over $1,000,000 a year to keep Hogan and playing alongside a future gun means taking a good offer, not demanding overs with no real runs in the board. I suppose we are talking about Melbourne and their 'culture'.

He's probably been getting stupid money his whole career, with a bit extra for being the only reason some Melbourne supporters bother going to a game, and thinks that's just the norm. Players who've been at Melbourne the last decade would have a warped view on what being an AFL player means I'd suspect.

Agree on GC. It's a club where culture, work ethic, and competitiveness are irrelevant if you look like you've got talent, they'll probably be all over him.

[bulldogtragic]

He's probably been getting stupid money his whole career, with a bit extra for being the only reason some Melbourne supporters bother going to a game, and thinks that's just the norm. Players who've been at Melbourne the last decade would have a warped view on what being an AFL player means I'd suspect.

Agree on GC. It's a club where culture, work ethic, and competitiveness are irrelevant if you look like you've got talent, they'll probably be all over him.

You've no doubt been a part of modern culture nonsense in a big organisation. I'm not sure how they can turn this around at all anymore. Softer coach. Angry knob coach. Roos... Lots of picks. Lots of picks. Favourable trading. Millions of cash. If Hogan leaves then Jackson should walk out of the club and leave the keys at the door for the builders to come in and strip the building to sell scrap metal to recoup costs. Trading Salem, Watts, Toumpas is not going to fix anything really and is an indictment on their drafting.

[ledge]

You've no doubt been a part of modern culture nonsense in a big organisation. I'm not sure how they can turn this around at all anymore. Softer coach. Angry knob coach. Roos... Lots of picks. Lots of picks. Favourable trading. Millions of cash. If Hogan leaves then Jackson should walk out of the club and leave the keys at the door for the builders to come in and strip the building to sell scrap metal to recoup costs. Trading Salem, Watts, Toumpas is not going to fix anything really and is an indictment on their drafting.

More on their development abd culture than drafting I would think.

[Greystache]

You've no doubt been a part of modern culture nonsense in a big organisation. I'm not sure how they can turn this around at all anymore. Softer coach. Angry knob coach. Roos... Lots of picks. Lots of picks. Favourable trading. Millions of cash. If Hogan leaves then Jackson should walk out of the club and leave the keys at the door for the builders to come in and strip the building to sell scrap metal to recoup costs. Trading Salem, Watts, Toumpas is not going to fix anything really and is an indictment on their drafting.

It's incredibly hard to turn around, the biggest mistake is looking for a saviour. You need to clearly define what you want the organisation to be, establish an expectation of people, and reward those who live the organisations values. If I were running Melbourne I would put a people lens on everything the club does over the next 3 years and reward good behaviours and attitude above all else. Recruit competitiveness and character over pure talent (obviously within reason), make selection about effort, competitiveness, and adherence to to team structure, and leave talented players that don't set the example for what the clubs expects to rot the VFL and progressively move them on. E.g. Watts, Howe, Toumpass etc would be VFL regulars and out the door this season, Cross would be retained, and honest fringe types would be automatic best 22.

Rather than trying to pinch wins while showing recruits the wrong way to be an AFL player, I would set the foundations of what is expected, and accept that they're going to be bottom for a couple more years. The problem is Roos' ego won't allow that. So they're just playing to minimize damage in losses, hoping to steal a few wins, and ensuring the stay stuck in the mire of bottom 6 while not improving the club at all.

[westdog54]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

I can't remember a more vastly overrated footballer in my time.

If he didn't take hangers as regularly as he did he wouldn't be close to getting a senior game.

[Twodogs]

Seems a flog too. Given minimum salary cap spend he'd have been getting well overs his whole career.


Yep. He seems like a flog to me too.

[azabob]

So Stache, BMAC to be coach or footy manager at the dees to set those benchmarks?

[Greystache]

So Stache, BMAC to be coach or footy manager at the dees to set those benchmarks?

I'll be howled down, but I would. It would have to be as head coach, Roos would have to go, and it would need to be with full support from the board and football department for 3 years. Let him remodel their recruiting, strip back their game plan, and work with the players that have the desire to make the grade. If he got a few comfortable senior players noses out of joint that could only be a good thing too.

They're going to be a rabble for another 3 years anyway you'd think, so they may as well invest those 3 years in getting their basics right. After 3 years you would then bring in a tactician style coach and make McCartney either a development coach or move him on depending on his relationships with the players.

[Sedat]

I'll be howled down, but I would. It would have to be as head coach, Roos would have to go, and it would need to be with full support from the board and football department for 3 years. Let him remodel their recruiting, strip back their game plan, and work with the players that have the desire to make the grade. If he got a few comfortable senior players noses out of joint that could only be a good thing too.

They're going to be a rabble for another 3 years anyway you'd think, so they may as well invest those 3 years in getting their basics right. After 3 years you would then bring in a tactician style coach and make McCartney either a development coach or move him on depending on his relationships with the players.
They simply can't be - surely there is enough sheer talent on their list already, which will only improve in the next couple of years. I think Roos has been the problem for Melbourne in the last 2 years - he has sucked all the instinct and flair out of that team with a game plan that is years outdated. On talent alone, they win 10-12 games this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Suggestion: IF Talia wants out to Sydney, although the $350,000 thingy is still in place.

Sydney Give: Pick 16-18 To Dogs.
Dogs Give: Talia and Pick 30.

Dogs get 11 and 16-18. Draft or trade. Frees up a spot for a ruckman to join us.

.??

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone have their heads around the Swans academy players and the bidding system surrounding them?

Could Talia factor here (though I still think he'll end up in Adelaide)?

[azabob]

I'll be howled down,

Don't worry, no howling down on this thread 3 reasons why

1) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads
2) Thread title is Silly Season Suggestions
2) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads

Oh by the way, I agree with your comments.

And I can't see where improvement will come from regardless of natural talent.

[azabob]

I reckon the Sydney Trading ban will be lifted.

[GVGjr]

Jeremy Howe is looking at options, would he be a good get ?

I couldn't believe how bad he was when we last played Melbourne. He has no real feel for the game other than taking a big mark.

What appeals to you about him?

[GVGjr]

Also Jack Watts not asssured to be at Melbourne as well.

I think Bevo could turn him into a player

[jazzadogs]

I think Bevo could turn him into a player

Yep, I'd be happy for us to get Watts at the right price. A lot of talk about his attitude and forward pressure, but I think (hope) it's all about environment for him. If I was going to be the only person to apply pressure, I don't think I'd bother either.

[bulldogtragic]

Don't worry, no howling down on this thread 3 reasons why

1) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads
2) Thread title is Silly Season Suggestions
2) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads

Oh by the way, I agree with your comments.

And I can't see where improvement will come from regardless of natural talent.


Yeah, well cool kids... Well I'm so livid with you turkeys. With your leather jackets. You're like a couple of cool looking idiots...


(So Murray Hewitt says :D )

[GVGjr]

Suggestion: IF Talia wants out to Sydney, although the $350,000 thingy is still in place.

Sydney Give: Pick 16-18 To Dogs.
Dogs Give: Talia and Pick 30.

Dogs get 11 and 16-18. Draft or trade. Frees up a spot for a ruckman to join us.

.??

I don't think Talia will command that sort of deal but I do believe he could be a very decent player for them so we might do well out of it. Before this weekends games I was keeping an eye on Dean Towers as a possible acquisition but that probably isn't likely now.

Swans need draft picks for academy player Callum Mills and possibly father son prospect Josh Dunkley

[GVGjr]

Don't worry, no howling down on this thread 3 reasons why

1) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads
2) Thread title is Silly Season Suggestions
2) BT Created it - anything goes on his threads

.

Is that really necessary?

[Throughandthrough]

completely made up

Minson to Essendon

Us second rounder in return

[bulldogtragic]

Is that really necessary?

Thanks G. Yeah. What G said. Not so tough now? :)

But, if I can get manage the expectations on me just low enough I might try to revive the 'busiest streets in Melbourne' thread. :D

[Throughandthrough]

Thanks G. Yeah. What G said. Not so tough now? :)

But, if I can get manage the expectations on me just low enough I might try to revive the 'busiest streets in Melbourne' thread. :D

Can i ask a bad question>
Who is the guy in your profile photo?

[bulldogtragic]

Can i ask a bad question>
Who is the guy in your profile photo?

Zaine Cordys bottom year (16yo) for Vic Country squad photo.

[ratsmac]

Jack Watts, hell no. He hasn't had a hard ball get in his whole career.

Jeremy Howe won't fit in our team because with Stringer, Hunter, Wood, Dahl and Matty Boyd we have already used up our quota of specky takers within one team. And plus he's crap!

[The Doctor]

Can we assume all players out of contract will be linked with North. Saves us all from having to type it!

[azabob]

Thanks G. Yeah. What G said. Not so tough now? :)

But, if I can get manage the expectations on me just low enough I might try to revive the 'busiest streets in Melbourne' thread. :D

BT obviously no offense was intended.

[Remi Moses]

God no to jack Watts .
No second efforts and sometimes no 1st effort

[bulldogtragic]

BT obviously no offense was intended.

I quoted Murray Hewitt. All good.

[hujsh]

BT obviously no offense was intended.

I thought it was obviously a joke

[FrediKanoute]

"Rather than trying to pinch wins while showing recruits the wrong way to be an AFL player, I would set the foundations of what is expected, and accept that they're going to be bottom for a couple more years. The problem is Roos' ego won't allow that. So they're just playing to minimize damage in losses, hoping to steal a few wins, and ensuring the stay stuck in the mire of bottom 6 while not improving the club at all."

Hold on isn't that the B-Mac way?

[Ghost Dog]

Jokes aside, he is the best tall utility you can have on your list. He is selfless and courageous, completely team-oriented, knows and understands team defence intimately, and he hardly ever gets beaten. If a Lake or Frawley go down for Hawthorn in the finals, they won't miss a beat. People can't see past the long hair and cult status - he is a very smart and capable role player.

There won't be any gorilla key defenders available at the end of this season - Spang would be perfect insurance for our list (even as a rookie if not on the main list) while there are still question marks on Talia, Roberts and Hamling long-term, Morris short-term, and Roughy from a best-value-to-the-team perspective. Plus he comes from successful organisations - not only has he played in a flag himself, he's been part of 4 premiership squads for 3 different teams. I would draft a key defender in the ND as a priority as well.

Something about his name, and the Jesus locks. But heck, miles ahead of Austin, Marcovic, Talia not to name a few others.

[Ghost Dog]

Gold Coast, GWS are all going to be good fishing holes for depth players.

Daniel Rich I've always liked and Grant + our first pick plus silverwear might be enough to do it...?

In China they have some massive basketballer types, particularly in Northern China.
Someone with an army background, loves tough stuff and will gladly put his head over a ball for a rookie wage.

Can be our Yao Ming. Random point - my Chinese students don't believe me when I tell them Yao Ming was a genetic experiment. They got the tallest sportswoman and male they could find and hooked them up. True story.

Why not? We are importing Chinese everything else! Carlton just signed on a US basketballer by the way, to add to that guy at the Saints.

[jazzadogs]

Gold Coast, GWS are all going to be good fishing holes for depth players.
I'd like to cast a good eye over Geelongs list. We have a bit of history with dealings and lots of finals experience.

Daniel Rich I've always liked and Grant + our first pick plus silverwear might be enough to do it...?

Massive overs for Rich, IMO. He has a booming kick which I would love to have in our side, but not as consistent as we would like. A player or pick (our second rounder, 30 something?) would be it for me.

[Ghost Dog]

Massive overs for Rich, IMO. He has a booming kick which I would love to have in our side, but not as consistent as we would like. A player or pick (our second rounder, 30 something?) would be it for me.

You are right.

[F'scary]

I wouldn't pour cold water on recruiting Jack Watts as a CHF. He might suit our style with his mobility. The big question mark on him as everyone knows is his on-field endeavour, basically, he has a track record of going missing regularly. New environment, new coach, new team with a very different playing style - could be worth a punt. Would Melbourne go for our first round pick (approx 11) +, say, Hrovat for Watts and their 2nd round pick (approx pick 28)? Or is this way overs for the 25 yo former number 1 draft pick who has played 115 games since 2009 (7 seasons), measures 196cm and 88kg and this year averaged 16 disposals, 5 marks and 0.5 goals in 20 games?

[Bulldog Joe]

I wouldn't pour cold water on recruiting Jack Watts as a CHF. He might suit our style with his mobility. The big question mark on him as everyone knows is his on-field endeavour, basically, he has a track record of going missing regularly. New environment, new coach, new team with a very different playing style - could be worth a punt. Would Melbourne go for our first round pick (approx 11) +, say, Hrovat for Watts and their 2nd round pick (approx pick 28)? Or is this way overs for the 25 yo former number 1 draft pick who has played 115 games since 2009 (7 seasons), measures 196cm and 88kg and this year averaged 16 disposals, 5 marks and 0.5 goals in 20 games?

I would suggest that is overs for Watts, who could not even maintain a spot at Melbourne.
Actually think he could be something to work with, but would be looking at a player swap.

He no longer warrants a first round pick as damaged goods in need of considerable reprogramming.

[Sedat]

Jack Watts is simply not an ultra-competitive animal. He accepts his fate on the field far too easily, whether it be in a marking contest or on a ground ball get. I can't see past this major flaw in his game - shame as he is genuinely an elite field kick.

[F'scary]

I would suggest that is overs for Watts, who could not even maintain a spot at Melbourne.
Actually think he could be something to work with, but would be looking at a player swap.

He no longer warrants a first round pick as damaged goods in need of considerable reprogramming.

Fair enough.

[F'scary]

Jack Watts is simply not an ultra-competitive animal. He accepts his fate on the field far too easily, whether it be in a marking contest or on a ground ball get. I can't see past this major flaw in his game - shame as he is genuinely an elite field kick.

Lack of endeavour is a big problem - often it seems like a temperament issue as players with this defect often find it hard to change it. Liam Jones was a bit the same.

[Bulldog4life]

Jack Watts is simply not an ultra-competitive animal. He accepts his fate on the field far too easily, whether it be in a marking contest or on a ground ball get. I can't see past this major flaw in his game - shame as he is genuinely an elite field kick.

Exactly. It is a big no from me.

[Dancin' Douggy]

My initial thought on Watts is Hell NO!!!

Then I'm thinking.......what if.............?

A. we get him for peanuts so its no great loss if he flops

B. He finally blossoms in a healthy environment with an inspirational coach, who has pretty much improved every single player on our list in one year.
(Some exceptions.......such as Hrovat and Talia I know.but still an incredible achievement)

C. We mange to turn him into the A grader he was supposed to be, and get him playing like a No 1 pick. How SWEEEEEET would that be. Hopefully a BIG nail in the coffin for the Paul Roos style of joyless negative football which I can't stand.

So I'm thinking..maybe it's worth a punt.

[Greystache]

My initial thought on Watts is Hell NO!!!

Then I'm thinking.......what if.............?

A. we get him for peanuts so its no great loss if he flops

B. He finally blossoms in a healthy environment with an inspirational coach, who has pretty much improved every single player on our list in one year.
(Some exceptions.......such as Hrovat and Talia I know.but still an incredible achievement)

C. We mange to turn him into the A grader he was supposed to be, and get him playing like a No 1 pick. How SWEEEEEET would that be. Hopefully a BIG nail in the coffin for the Paul Roos style of joyless negative football which I can't stand.

So I'm thinking..maybe it's worth a punt.

A couple of problems with that;

a) Melbourne won't give him away cheap, they'll look to recoup as much of their lost investment as possible. They'll be asking a first rounder and will probably accept a second round pick at worst. He's also under contract.

b) He doesn't have the competitive nature to every become an A grader, it's just not who he is. He's an athlete with nice skills who isn't suited to the tough competitive nature of AFL footy. At best he'll be an outside midfielder or back flanker who uses the ball well but gets exposed by physical pressure and who'll be poor defensively. He's also a prime candidate to go missing in finals.

He's got Gold Coast written all over him- Soft, outside, tall, athletic, with nice skills and no competitive spirit.

[Dancin' Douggy]

A couple of problems with that;

a) Melbourne won't give him away cheap, they'll look to recoup as much of their lost investment as possible. They'll be asking a first rounder and will probably accept a second round pick at worst. He's also under contract.

b) He doesn't have the competitive nature to every become an A grader, it's just not who he is. He's an athlete with nice skills who isn't suited to the tough competitive nature of AFL footy. At best he'll be an outside midfielder or back flanker who uses the ball well but gets exposed by physical pressure and who'll be poor defensively. He's also a prime candidate to go missing in finals.

He's got Gold Coast written all over him- Soft, outside, tall, athletic, with nice skills and no competitive spirit.

Then we don't even get past my point A. My scenario is only worth a shot if we got him for peanuts.
I wouldn't cough up much for him at all.

[ratsmac]

Then we don't even get past my point A. My scenario is only worth a shot if we got him for peanuts.
I wouldn't cough up much for him at all.

Just a spot on our list is paying overs.

I know what you're saying but it's a no from me.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Just a spot on our list is paying overs.

I know what you're saying but it's a no from me.
Truth be told.......I don't even LIKE him anyway..........

[The Bulldogs Bite]

For somebody with so much natural talent (good athlete, good skills, footy IQ), Watts is a terrible footballer. He really should be a damaging player, but as others have noted, he hardly has a competitive bone in his body.

For his sake, he should move to another club ... but he strikes me as somebody who isn't overly fussed whether he stays in the system or not.

[Happy Days]

At this point I have to stand up for Jack Watts and say that he is a truly fantastic human being and I wish him nothing but success.

From a footballing perspective, however, he is not worth the cost that it would take to get him, and as many others have pointed out his intensity and concentration levels mitigate his natural ability almost totally, almost all of the time.

[Twodogs]

Fantastic bloke. As a footballer... Yeah, nah.

[1eyedog]

Yep, I'd be happy for us to get Watts at the right price. A lot of talk about his attitude and forward pressure, but I think (hope) it's all about environment for him. If I was going to be the only person to apply pressure, I don't think I'd bother either.

Why would we bring a player like Watts in but not offer a player like Grant another contract? What does Watts offer that Grant doesn't?

[Ghost Dog]

Why would we bring a player like Watts in but not offer a player like Grant another contract? What does Watts offer that Grant doesn't?

Blonde flowing locks? Am more of a fan of the microphone head myself :D
The only problem getting Watts is dealing with Melbourne. They can hardly field a team and need every spud in the barrel.

But where would we play Watts, even if we had him? Modern players need to be flexible.

[hujsh]

Can be our Yao Ming. Random point - my Chinese students don't believe me when I tell them Yao Ming was a genetic experiment. They got the tallest sportswoman and male they could find and hooked them up. True story.



Did a quick google search and your students may be right to be cynical


"In Yao's case I don't have any proof … [but] in that period of time in the 1990s they were using all kinds of experimental stuff to enhance players' stamina and strength," Larmer said.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/basketball/yao-ming-the-basketball-giant-made-in-china-by-order-of-the-state/2006/01/18/1137553645228.html?page=2

It's an accusation but doesn't seem to be much to back it up apart from the encouragement given for his parents to hook up, their genetic disposition for height (there were probably taller sportspeople, especially women) and his mother being a ardent Maoist and former red guard member

[Happy Days]

Yao only really got 4 proper seasons out of himself; people of his height just aren't meant to exist. He had far more success as a meme.

[Ghost Dog]

Of COURSE there isn't much evidence to back it up. TIC this is China.
The official records say he inherited his love of basketball from his family. He has been on record saying he never wanted to play, and coaches came to his house force him to go to training.

[bulldogtragic]

Why would we bring a player like Watts in but not offer a player like Grant another contract? What does Watts offer that Grant doesn't?

If we get rid of Grant we are lean on scapegoats. I think Watts could really excel in this part building a broad playing list. :)

[Throughandthrough]

If we get rid of Grant we are lean on scapegoats. I think Watts could really excel in this part building a broad playing list. :)

Good point. Every club needs a bag player.

Could watts be the Simon Minton Connell of the new generation?

[LostDoggy]

Now there's a topic. Timeline of scapegoats (some more deserving than others). Hmmm howssabout:

Grant -> Higgins -> Giansiracusa -> Ray -> MacMahon -> Eagleton -> P.Hudson -> Minton-Connell -> N.Kellett -> Grgic - > Atkins -> Coleman -> Groenewegen -> Cullen -> Dunstan -> That's as far back as I go....

[Remi Moses]

One or two super duds right there.

[jazzadogs]

Why would we bring a player like Watts in but not offer a player like Grant another contract? What does Watts offer that Grant doesn't?

Yeh I would prefer Grant as well.

[Dry Rot]

I don't think Talia will command that sort of deal but I do believe he could be a very decent player for them so we might do well out of it. Before this weekends games I was keeping an eye on Dean Towers as a possible acquisition but that probably isn't likely now.

Swans need draft picks for academy player Callum Mills and possibly father son prospect Josh Dunkley

OK, from a Swans POV, they have two desperate needs now: getting extra draft picks to help snare 2015 Academy players, and getting KPD cover for their 2 tall defenders on their last legs.

Talia and our second round pick help both causes - are they worth Swans first pick in 2016?

[Twodogs]

Oh yeah. We can deal in future picks! Get real silly!l!

[Rocket Science]

Now there's a topic. Timeline of scapegoats (some more deserving than others). Hmmm howssabout:

Grant -> Higgins -> Giansiracusa -> Ray -> MacMahon -> Eagleton -> P.Hudson -> Minton-Connell -> N.Kellett -> Grgic - > Atkins -> Coleman -> Groenewegen -> Cullen -> Dunstan -> That's as far back as I go....

S. Power and J. Rawlings are feeling left out.

W. Skipper also wants to know why he didn't get the memo.

[LostDoggy]

S. Power and J. Rawlings are feeling left out.

W. Skipper also wants to know why he didn't get the memo.

Ouch, Ouch & Ouch. Those Peter Rohde years weren't a whole lotta fun.

[Greystache]

Good point. Every club needs a bag player.

Could watts be the Simon Minton Connell of the new generation?

When you compare how much Tory Dickson cops year in year out, regardless of how well he plays, Grant is practically untouchable.

Addison copped it worse again, and he played more good football than Grant. Watts would be up against it to keep up with those two.

[F'scary]

Some suggestion in an Age article this morning that the Dees might be looking to cut their losses and accept a second round draft pick for Jack Watts (aka "that player wearing the number 4" as your typical Demons supporters would refer to him).

[Throughandthrough]

Now there's a topic. Timeline of scapegoats (some more deserving than others). Hmmm howssabout:

Grant -> Higgins -> Giansiracusa -> Ray -> MacMahon -> Eagleton -> P.Hudson -> Minton-Connell -> N.Kellett -> Grgic - > Atkins -> Coleman -> Groenewegen -> Cullen -> Dunstan -> That's as far back as I go....


Atkins? I never knew.

[1eyedog]

Some suggestion in an Age article this morning that the Dees might be looking to cut their losses and accept a second round draft pick for Jack Watts (aka "that player wearing the number 4" as your typical Demons supporters would refer to him).

Melbourne have used him in a multitude of roles, none of which have worked very well. He's looked best as a third defender and if we were really light on down back he could potentially be used in the former Hargrave role. If we hadn't have brought in Hamling it would be a consideration provided he came to us cheaply. We'll probably lose Talia this year and Morris next so I guess it may be a consideration for JMac.

I would much rather target a Tomlinson for the third back role than trying to find a role for Watts.

[craigsahibee]

I think Bevo could turn him into a player

Bevo is good, is he that good. I don't know?

[Sedat]

Now there's a topic. Timeline of scapegoats (some more deserving than others). Hmmm howssabout:

Grant -> Higgins -> Giansiracusa -> Ray -> MacMahon -> Eagleton -> P.Hudson -> Minton-Connell -> N.Kellett -> Grgic - > Atkins -> Coleman -> Groenewegen -> Cullen -> Dunstan -> That's as far back as I go....
Quill and Curley were my personal scapegoats in the late 90's - could rely on both to make at least a couple of monumental screw-ups in each game. I think Greg Epplestun was a bit of a whipping boy for the Dogs faithful in the late 80's as well from memory.

Don't recall Axe being a scapegoat - maybe in 1993 when he really struggled with the extra attention from opposition taggers.

[1eyedog]

Bevo is good, is he that good. I don't know?

5 Melbourne coaches have not been able to turn him around. Bevo would be up against it.

[Sedat]

S. Power and J. Rawlings are feeling left out.

W. Skipper also wants to know why he didn't get the memo.
Ah yes, Sammy Power. If only the goalposts were located on the wings, he would have been a 5-time AA and 2-time Brownlow medallist :D

[KT31]

S. Power and J. Rawlings are feeling left out.

W. Skipper also wants to know why he didn't get the memo.

Autumn Leaves Epplestun says hi.

Sorry Sedat read your post later.

[F'scary]

Autumn Leaves Epplestun says hi.

Sorry Sedat read your post later.

LOL - I take it he was called "Autumn Leaves" because he was always falling to the ground. The opposite of, say, Stringer.

[bornadog]

LOL - I take it he was called "Autumn Leaves" because he was always falling to the ground. The opposite of, say, Stringer.
did a superb job on Gary Ablett whenever he played on him

[F'scary]

did a superb job on Gary Ablett whenever he played on him

I thought he was a reasonable player too, for the record.

[KT31]

LOL - I take it he was called "Autumn Leaves" because he was always falling to the ground. The opposite of, say, Stringer.

Correct, seemed to have an issue going to ground.

[bornadog]

Correct, seemed to have an issue going to ground.
Yes I saw Ablett punch him in the guts behind play

[Twodogs]

Greg Eppelston was no dud. He played SOO for Victoria.

[Twodogs]

He did fall over a lot though.

[LostDoggy]

Quill and Curley were my personal scapegoats in the late 90's - could rely on both to make at least a couple of monumental screw-ups in each game. I think Greg Epplestun was a bit of a whipping boy for the Dogs faithful in the late 80's as well from memory.

Don't recall Axe being a scapegoat - maybe in 1993 when he really struggled with the extra attention from opposition taggers.

In his last year with us he copped it viciously. I loved the Axe, but his undeveloped defensive game, laconic nature and waddling running style used to infuriate a section of the crowd who just thought he didn't work hard enough when we didn't have the ball. When things went south in 93, he was definitely the main scapegoat.

[Happy Days]

In his last year with us he copped it viciously. I loved the Axe, but his undeveloped defensive game, laconic nature and waddling running style used to infuriate a section of the crowd who just thought he didn't work hard enough when we didn't have the ball. When things went south in 93, he was definitely the main scapegoat.

Martin Flanagan goes into great detail of the effect that the scapegoating had on Atkins in that book that Twodogs loves.

[craigsahibee]

In his last year with us he copped it viciously. I loved the Axe, but his undeveloped defensive game, laconic nature and waddling running style used to infuriate a section of the crowd who just thought he didn't work hard enough when we didn't have the ball. When things went south in 93, he was definitely the main scapegoat.

Pretty sure Axe won the Channel 7 (might have been World of Sport) Player of the Year in '92. Had a great season in 92 which culminated in his girlfriend dumping his stuff at the Albert Hotel on Mad Monday (or so legend has it). He certainly did cop some attention the following year.

[Dry Rot]

FWIW rumours that Swans are interested in Talia are well founded.

[Dry Rot]

5 Melbourne coaches have not been able to turn him around. Bevo would be up against it.

You can't teach/coach intensity.

[Mofra]

You can't teach/coach intensity.
Yep - Watts isn't for us


FWIW rumours that Swans are interested in Talia are well founded.
Reliable source?

[Dry Rot]

Reliable source?

Chap with links to the Swans and GWS.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Could we somehow engineer a Hrovat, Talia, pick swaps etc > Bennell?

[The Doctor]

Essendon after 1st round pick + Jeremy Howe for Melksham according to Denham on SEN

Had a great laugh at that one. Good ol Dodoro. He should feature heavily in this thread. In fact it should be named in his honour

[Greystache]

Essendon after 1st round pick + Jeremy Howe for Melksham according to Denham on SEN

Had a great laugh at that one. Good ol Dodoro. He should feature heavily in this thread. In fact it should be named in his honour

Melksham is the definition of a PSD draft pick up.

[LostDoggy]

Richmonds Ben Lennon is a tall forward who won a Rising Star nom late in the year, and then was dropped for the 1st final.

Hope we sniff around. If for no other reason, just wanna see McCartney recruit Lennon.

[ledge]

Richmonds Ben Lennon is a tall forward who won a Rising Star nom late in the year, and then was dropped for the 1st final.

Hope we sniff around. If for no other reason, just wanna see McCartney recruit Lennon.
It won't be a happy ending.

[bulldogtragic]

It won't be a happy ending.

Ono it won't.

[ledge]

They were both trying to drum up who was the biggest Starr.

[bulldogtragic]

They were both trying to drum up who was the biggest Starr.

Yes, trying to be the biggest Starr, but equals because there was no Best.

George rules.

[ledge]

Yes, trying to be the biggest Starr, but equals because there was no Best.

George rules.

My sweet lord!

[F'scary]

The Beatles still rule. And if you disagree you have to tell that to the Gallagher brothers - to their faces...

[bulldogtragic]

Suggestion?

Ruck and KPD coverage - Jack Fitzpatrick as a delisted free agent?

[GVGjr]

Suggestion?

Ruck and KPD coverage - Jack Fitzpatrick as a delisted free agent?

Not a bad suggestion BT but he's more the type that could be OK as a rookie list player. I think he lacks the intensity and skills required to become a regular senior footballer.

[bulldogtragic]

Not a bad suggestion BT but he's more the type that could be OK as a rookie list player. I think he lacks the intensity and skills required to become a regular senior footballer.

If he trains with us, historically we'd be an OK chance to rookie him or at least take the low risk. I'm confused with he and Watts as to weather a Bevo type coach might get them to an ok level over Roos and all the baggage they've been stuck in. I couldn't see us risking a pick on Watts, but if Melbourne jumped into Talia, that presents an interest debate over a pick 35 (by compo) or Watts...

[G-Mo77]

Suggestion?

Ruck and KPD coverage - Jack Fitzpatrick as a delisted free agent?

I think you've brought him up before. I'm not convinced on him but I'd be happy to rookie list him and see how he goes.

[bulldogtragic]

How many players can we request to train with us with AFL approval?

[GVGjr]

How many players can we request to train with us with AFL approval?

I'd be surprised if there is a limit but any more than 3 or 4 doesn't make a lot of sense. Really one or two should be enough.

[G-Mo77]

I'd be surprised if there is a limit but any more than 3 or 4 doesn't make a lot of sense. Really one or two should be enough.

Didn't we have 3 players vying for the one spot which Goodes ended up getting?

[GVGjr]

Didn't we have 3 players vying for the one spot which Goodes ended up getting?

I think that is correct. I seem to recall we may have had 4 one year.

[LostDoggy]

I decided this year to sit out the trade period on WOOF.

Then the Jarrad Grant situation happened, and I thought of BT. This year looks set to be our best ever.

[bulldogtragic]

I decided this year to sit out the trade period on WOOF.

Then the Jarrad Grant situation happened, and I thought of BT. This year looks set to be our best ever.

Thanks BAS. Jarrad, Hrovat, Minson and Talia all linked to other clubs already. Former first and second round pick players with various positive attributes. JMacca is going to earn his wage this year to do a good job. Especially since a heap of big name players have called out new homes and none us thus far.

[LostDoggy]

Buddy was going to GWS right until the last moment.

[Remi Moses]

Thanks BAS. Jarrad, Hrovat, Minson and Talia all linked to other clubs already. Former first and second round pick players with various positive attributes. JMacca is going to earn his wage this year to do a good job. Especially since a heap of big name players have called out new homes and none us thus far.

Lot of posturing, Mexican stand offs, and poker being played

[bornadog]

We need a ruckman and Port have too many. What would you give up for Lobbe?

[GVGjr]

We need a ruckman and Port have too many. What would you give up for Lobbe?

Good player but I could only offer a 2nd round pick which I don't think will do it for Port. They might be interested in that plus Daniel
Landing a player like Lobbe I suspect would mean Roughead returning to the back line.

[bulldogtragic]

When B. Macca was head coach he was trying to woo Kirsten to seek a trade from Geelong to us. With Henderson, Clarke, Vardy, Blicavs, Stanley, Hawkins, Smith (?) and Taylor rotating through the forward line - is he a player that would hold any interest as he's going down the pecking order year after year?

[Greystache]

When B. Macca was head coach he was trying to woo Kirsten to seek a trade from Geelong to us. With Henderson, Clarke, Vardy, Blicavs, Stanley, Hawkins, Smith (?) and Taylor rotating through the forward line - is he a player that would hold any interest as he's going down the pecking order year after year?

I think in many ways the recruitment of Stringer and Crameri largely reduced the motivation to recruit Kersten. Boyd subsequently coming in probably eliminated any need at all.

[soupman]

I think in many ways the recruitment of Stringer and Crameri largely reduced the motivation to recruit Kersten. Boyd subsequently coming in probably eliminated any need at all.
Agree.

Also mid sized forward is a position we are pretty well stocked in now. I would prefer we prioritised that list spot on trying to rectify a weakness than add depth to a strength.

[GVGjr]

Good player but I could only offer a 2nd round pick which I don't think will do it for Port. They might be interested in that plus Daniel
Landing a player like Lobbe I suspect would mean Roughead returning to the back line.

I've had a rethink. On the following proviso's and speculation we might have to have a more serious go at Lobbe.

- If we aren't going to play Minson
- We don't think Campbell can do the job
- We can't acquire a key defender

Then perhaps pick 11 for Lobbe and their pick 29 might be a reasonable deal for us although I think we are still paying too much.

- It allows Roughead to return to the back line.
- It means Roughead could do more of the back up work
- Boyd can stay more in the forward line

Dalrymple will work his magic later in the draft.

[GVGjr]

When B. Macca was head coach he was trying to woo Kirsten to seek a trade from Geelong to us. With Henderson, Clarke, Vardy, Blicavs, Stanley, Hawkins, Smith (?) and Taylor rotating through the forward line - is he a player that would hold any interest as he's going down the pecking order year after year?

We have a bit of coverage with taller forwards although we aren't as deep as the Cats but Boyd, Stringer, Crameri and Redpath have given us some options. I think the fact that we also have good mid sized forwards like Dickson makes it harder to trade for someone like Kirsten. He's a pretty good player though and he should be looking elsewhere.

[GVGjr]

A bit of spit-balling to see if we can work a bit of magic

Bulldogs offer Pick 11 to Port for Lobbe and Ports 2nd round pick #29. That gives us 653 extra points to add to our pick #30 (629)

Port gains the extra pick they might need to satisfy the Suns for Dixon and eases their logjam at the ruck position.
Bulldogs gain a quality ruckman which potentially releases Roughead to continue in the back line

Bulldogs offer picks #29, #30, #48 and Michael Talia to the Swans for their pick #14

Swans now have 3 x 2nd round picks #29, #30, #33 and #48 which has a value of 2,147 points and they have picked up a key defender for nothing. Their original points in rounds 1 and 2 was 1,724 and while the additional 423 points isn't much it values Callum Mills at about pick 3 before the academy discount is applied.

Bulldogs have traded back into the first round and will make their last two picks at the back of the draft.

The chances? minimal I would say but I'd bet clubs look at this type of complicated deal.

Well it is the silly season :)

[Maddog37]

A bit of spit-balling to see if we can work a bit of magic

Bulldogs offer Pick 11 to Port for Lobbe and Ports 2nd round pick #29. That gives us 653 extra points to add to our pick #30 (629)

Port gains the extra pick they might need to satisfy the Suns for Dixon and eases their logjam at the ruck position.
Bulldogs gain a quality ruckman which potentially releases Roughead to continue in the back line

Bulldogs offer picks #29, #30, #48 and Michael Talia to the Swans for their pick #14

Swans now have 3 x 2nd round picks #29, #30, #33 and #48 which has a value of 2,147 points and they have picked up a key defender for nothing. Their original points in rounds 1 and 2 was 1,724 and while the additional 423 points isn't much it values Callum Mills at about pick 3 before the academy discount is applied.

Bulldogs have traded back into the first round and will make their last two picks at the back of the draft.

The chances? minimal I would say but I'd bet clubs look at this type of complicated deal.

Well it is the silly season :)

I like that a lot G. I am really hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the demand for Talia.

[Twodogs]

Devils advocate.

Do we really need to trade for a quality ruckman. We already have a quality ruckman on the list but we don't bother playing him most of the time.

Should we be looking at a different kind of ruckman

[GVGjr]

Devils advocate.

Do we really need to trade for a quality ruckman. We already have a quality ruckman on the list but we don't bother playing him most of the time.

Should we be looking at a different kind of ruckman

The fact that we chased an already in contract Martin would indicate that it was a reasonably high priority for us.

[Twodogs]

A bit of spit-balling to see if we can work a bit of magic

Bulldogs offer Pick 11 to Port for Lobbe and Ports 2nd round pick #29. That gives us 653 extra points to add to our pick #30 (629)

Port gains the extra pick they might need to satisfy the Suns for Dixon and eases their logjam at the ruck position.
Bulldogs gain a quality ruckman which potentially releases Roughead to continue in the back line

Bulldogs offer picks #29, #30, #48 and Michael Talia to the Swans for their pick #14

Swans now have 3 x 2nd round picks #29, #30, #33 and #48 which has a value of 2,147 points and they have picked up a key defender for nothing. Their original points in rounds 1 and 2 was 1,724 and while the additional 423 points isn't much it values Callum Mills at about pick 3 before the academy discount is applied.

Bulldogs have traded back into the first round and will make their last two picks at the back of the draft.

The chances? minimal I would say but I'd bet clubs look at this type of complicated deal.

Well it is the silly season :)

I worry about giving up our picks early in two consecutive drafts. Dalrymple seems to be in Ted hot form but we keep taking his best tools away.

[Twodogs]

The fact that we chased an already in contract Martin would indicate that it was a reasonably high priority for us.

I can see that it is, but I'm wondering why. Are Minson and Martin that different? Martin did towel us up in the last game I guess. If
Minson was at another club would we be asking about his availability?

[Happy Days]

I can see that it is, but I'm wondering why. Are Minson and Martin that different? Martin did towel us up in the last game I guess. If
Minson was at another club would we be asking about his availability?

Martin has it all over Minson. Far better overhead, the best accumulator of possession ruckman in the competiton, and every bit as strong. He would be absolutely perfect for us.

[Bulldog Joe]

I can see that it is, but I'm wondering why. Are Minson and Martin that different? Martin did towel us up in the last game I guess. If
Minson was at another club would we be asking about his availability?

The difference between Minson and Martin is an important criteria called mobility.

Martin actually is more a midfielder who happens to also take the hitouts. He also takes marks consistently and doubles Will in most stats except for Tackles and Hitouts.

Martin seems much more the type of ruckman that our coach is looking for.

[GVGjr]

I can see that it is, but I'm wondering why. Are Minson and Martin that different? Martin did towel us up in the last game I guess. If
Minson was at another club would we be asking about his availability?

I guess the question that should be asked in the hypothetical and very unlikely scenario I posed is more around if Lobbe is much different to Minson?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

A bit of spit-balling to see if we can work a bit of magic

Bulldogs offer Pick 11 to Port for Lobbe and Ports 2nd round pick #29. That gives us 653 extra points to add to our pick #30 (629)

Port gains the extra pick they might need to satisfy the Suns for Dixon and eases their logjam at the ruck position.
Bulldogs gain a quality ruckman which potentially releases Roughead to continue in the back line

Bulldogs offer picks #29, #30, #48 and Michael Talia to the Swans for their pick #14

Swans now have 3 x 2nd round picks #29, #30, #33 and #48 which has a value of 2,147 points and they have picked up a key defender for nothing. Their original points in rounds 1 and 2 was 1,724 and while the additional 423 points isn't much it values Callum Mills at about pick 3 before the academy discount is applied.

Bulldogs have traded back into the first round and will make their last two picks at the back of the draft.

The chances? minimal I would say but I'd bet clubs look at this type of complicated deal.

Well it is the silly season :)

Email Jason McCartney :D

[GVGjr]

Email Jason McCartney :D

I've done the numbers again, we might not need to add the 3rd round pick.

[LostDoggy]

I'd throw the first round pick on its own at a ruckman, yes. Is Lobbe that ruckman? I'm not sure.

[Bulldog Joe]

A bit of spit-balling to see if we can work a bit of magic

Bulldogs offer Pick 11 to Port for Lobbe and Ports 2nd round pick #29. That gives us 653 extra points to add to our pick #30 (629)

Port gains the extra pick they might need to satisfy the Suns for Dixon and eases their logjam at the ruck position.
Bulldogs gain a quality ruckman which potentially releases Roughead to continue in the back line

Bulldogs offer picks #29, #30, #48 and Michael Talia to the Swans for their pick #14

Swans now have 3 x 2nd round picks #29, #30, #33 and #48 which has a value of 2,147 points and they have picked up a key defender for nothing. Their original points in rounds 1 and 2 was 1,724 and while the additional 423 points isn't much it values Callum Mills at about pick 3 before the academy discount is applied.

Bulldogs have traded back into the first round and will make their last two picks at the back of the draft.

The chances? minimal I would say but I'd bet clubs look at this type of complicated deal.

Well it is the silly season :)

This is the sort of innovative thinking that needs to be applied.

For Academy/Father Son selections the actual position of the draft will become irrelevant as it is points they need.

Sydney, GWS, Brisbane and Gold Coast are all possibilities for this type of trading where they have a player they know will go highly.

Under the bidding system they really need to have picks that can be used to make up the points.

It will be possible that clubs trade out players for picks that can then be swapped just to provide additional points around one of those Academy/Father Son selections.

It may not happen this year, but when the clubs understand the values it will become commonplace.

[GVGjr]

I worry about giving up our picks early in two consecutive drafts. Dalrymple seems to be in Ted hot form but we keep taking his best tools away.

I get that, I doubt it's much more than speculation but if we were to redraft Grant it's not many picks to cover.

[GVGjr]

This is the sort of innovative thinking that needs to be applied.

For Academy/Father Son selections the actual position of the draft will become irrelevant as it is points they need.

Sydney, GWS, Brisbane and Gold Coast are all possibilities for this type of trading where they have a player they know will go highly.

Under the bidding system they really need to have picks that can be used to make up the points.

It will be possible that clubs trade out players for picks that can then be swapped just to provide additional points around one of those Academy/Father Son selections.

It may not happen this year, but when the clubs understand the values it will become commonplace.

While it's a very unlikely scenario the premise of points being more valuable to some teams (with academy picks to cover) than it is for others.
If we were to have two x 2nd round picks then the sum of their value is greater than the Swans pick 14 (not by much) which could be important for them.
Throw Talia into the mix and maybe swap 3rd round picks it might be enough to peak their interest.

If MacPherson is someone we are interested in then we probably can get him late in the draft so maybe mid range draft picks aren't as valuable to us this year.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I really hope we are exploring opportunities to move higher up the 1st round draft order. I think securing another top line talent in this draft should be a priority so as to ensure we have a good number of A grade talent coming into their prime around the same time as each other.

[1eyedog]

We need a ruckman and Port have too many. What would you give up for Lobbe?

I don't think Lobbe is going anywhere. He signed what a big 4 year deal late last year, is a vice captain at the club and Port said under no circumstances would they trade him and he wants to stay. Everything they have done suggests they want to keep him. We need to look elsewhere or bide our time.

[bornadog]

I really hope we are exploring opportunities to move higher up the 1st round draft order. I think securing another top line talent in this draft should be a priority so as to ensure we have a good number of A grade talent coming into their prime around the same time as each other.

If you listen to Jmac he did say we are looking at opportunities to improve our position so the answer is yes.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One thing I will say is that if we miss out on a ruck, I won't lose sleep. We were only soundly beaten in two games in the ruck - v West Coast and v Brisbane.

A quality ruck is a luxury, not a necessity, as demonstrated by many premiership sides (Geelong with Blake, Sydney with Pyke, Hawthorn with Hale/McEvoy).

Minson, Campbell and Roughead (Boyd/Redpath as support roles) is still decent. The latter two should be coming into their prime whilst Minson is adequate cover if nothing else for now.

I'm absolutely petrified of going into 2016 with our current key defensive stocks.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I really hope we are exploring opportunities to move higher up the 1st round draft order. I think securing another top line talent in this draft should be a priority so as to ensure we have a good number of A grade talent coming into their prime around the same time as each other.

Oh man I totally agree. That's why I keep banging on about the Carlisle/St. Kilda deal.

Pick 5 is too high for Carlisle. Pick 11 might be about right. Bombers are into Talia.

Dogs give Bombers 11 and Talia. and we on trade Carlisle with picks or whatever to the saints.

I would love to take pick 5 to the draft.

[bornadog]

I'm absolutely petrified of going into 2016 with our current key defensive stocks.

I can't see us getting anyone this trade, but then again who knows what will happen.

[bulldogtragic]

Wasn't Dangerfield pick 11? (Massive contract) And Jarrad Grant pick 5? (No contract)

Ironic, if not awful, if we fought to get the higher pick and then the same happened at the draft. I'd shop pick 5 for a double deal of a good mid and good defender.

[GVGjr]

I don't think Lobbe is going anywhere. He signed what a big 4 year deal late last year, is a vice captain at the club and Port said under no circumstances would they trade him and he wants to stay. Everything they have done suggests they want to keep him. We need to look elsewhere or bide our time.

Terry Wallace believes Lobbe faces a reduced role unless some of the Essendon players they have get suspended

Former Bulldogs and Richmond coach Terry Wallace, who is among the most respected list analysts in the game, feared the recruitment of Dixon would mean Lobbe’s role would be reduced to an insurance policy.

It is believed a big part of hanging on to the former No. 1 ruckman, who was in fine form during coach Ken Hinkley’s first year at the club in 2014, is because of the ongoing WADA investigation into Essendon, which threatens to suspend Port’s former Bombers Angus Monfries and Ryder.

[bulldogtragic]

I can't see us getting anyone this trade, but then again who knows what will happen.

WCE showed this year that a good zone defence can cover a lack of tall defenders. Ironically, David King on 360 showed how Talia was our biggest weakness in our 6 man defensive set up because he would do his own thing and not play to the team structure. It might not be a big loss as he clearly couldn't be coached to play for our team and with his former team mates.

But we need to get the men's department some big support.

[GVGjr]

WCE showed this year that a good zone defence can cover a lack of tall defenders. Ironically, David King on 360 showed how Talia was our biggest weakness in our 6 man defensive set up because he would do his own thing and not play to the team structure. It might not be a big loss as he clearly couldn't be coached to play for our team and with his former team mates.

But we need to get the men's department some big support.

Unless we are prepared to take a shot at Tomlinson or have a go at getting Plowman then a ruckman might make the most sense as it allows Roughead to stay in back line. You're spot on, we need a player who can fit into our defensive set-up the most.

[Bulldog4life]

Unless we are prepared to take a shot at Tomlinson or have a go at getting Plowman then a ruckman might make the most sense as it allows Roughead to stay in back line. You're spot on, we need a player who can fit into our defensive set-up the most.

If Will and Tommy can step up we can still have Roughy in the backline

[Remi Moses]

Martin has it all over Minson. Far better overhead, the best accumulator of possession ruckman in the competiton, and every bit as strong. He would be absolutely perfect for us.

Agreed. Martin has him for agility, marking and getting around the ground.
Minson's best days are past ( about 2013)

[Remi Moses]

I think we should at least go a ruckman or a key back.

[GVGjr]

One thing I will say is that if we miss out on a ruck, I won't lose sleep. We were only soundly beaten in two games in the ruck - v West Coast and v Brisbane.

A quality ruck is a luxury, not a necessity, as demonstrated by many premiership sides (Geelong with Blake, Sydney with Pyke, Hawthorn with Hale/McEvoy).

Minson, Campbell and Roughead (Boyd/Redpath as support roles) is still decent. The latter two should be coming into their prime whilst Minson is adequate cover if nothing else for now.

I'm absolutely petrified of going into 2016 with our current key defensive stocks.

While I tend to agree the fact that we didn't really want to play Minson gives the impression that we would really like to land a ruckman. Like you, the thought of going into the season with the key defenders we have isn't one that inspires a lot of confidence.
If we can't attract or trade for a good key defender then finding a ruckman and moving Roughead back into the back line gives us coverage. I also doubt Roughead can play as the number one ruckman for long stretches.

My preference would be to land a key defender and one that could embrace our attacking style. Failing that a ruckman might make some sense. Personally I'd play Minson and Campbell as much as I could next year but I'm not confident the coach wants to play Minson.

[Mantis]

Personally I'd play Minson and Campbell as much as I could next year but I'm not confident the coach wants to play Minson.

Minson and Campbell or Minson or Campbell?

[GVGjr]

Minson and Campbell or Minson or Campbell?

Minson first preference and Campbell if his form warrants it. We can't play both ruckman

[Rocket Science]

Just on Campbell, are we satisfied by now he's probably not up to it at this level?

Or is it a textbook case of big blokes generally needing a longer apprenticeship than others as they find ways to influence games more regularly?

Approaching his 5th season and seems he's been around for a while now but Campbell's only 23 years old and has the grand sum of 26 games on his resume. Granted his sample sizes aren't monstrous - and not withstanding the team's general upward trend too - but he saw healthy bumps in both hit-out and disposal averages last season.

We've been a bit spoilt with young player contributions lately but need reliability rather than impact out of Tom. It'll be a critical year for him.

[Axe Man]

David Astbury would be a great fit for us as a key defender (195cm 24 years old). Can't get a game in front of Rance and Chaplain at Richmond but is highly rated. Brisbane are apparently into him but Richmond's asking price is high for a bloke who has only played 41 games in 6 years.


Richmond has indicated to the Lions it will consider trading key defender David Astbury to the Gabba, but only for (a) pick No.21 on its own; or (b) pick No.17, with the Tigers to pass No.31 back to the Lions.

Any way we could get involved here?

[Mantis]

Minson first preference and Campbell if his form warrants it. We can't play both ruckman

I just don't see the point of playing Minson.. He clearly isn't suited to our style of play and I can't see this improving magically over this pre-season.

Obviously a bit to play out with how we use Roughead, but it really is time for Campbell to step-up.

[GVGjr]

I just don't see the point of playing Minson.. He clearly isn't suited to our style of play and I can't see this improving magically over this pre-season.

Obviously a bit to play out with how we use Roughead, but it really is time for Campbell to step-up.

I'd pick the player who's in form, it wouldn't worry me if it as Minson or Campbell

[1eyedog]

Terry Wallace believes Lobbe faces a reduced role unless some of the Essendon players they have get suspended

Former Bulldogs and Richmond coach Terry Wallace, who is among the most respected list analysts in the game, feared the recruitment of Dixon would mean Lobbe’s role would be reduced to an insurance policy.

It is believed a big part of hanging on to the former No. 1 ruckman, who was in fine form during coach Ken Hinkley’s first year at the club in 2014, is because of the ongoing WADA investigation into Essendon, which threatens to suspend Port’s former Bombers Angus Monfries and Ryder.


Ok. It is unlikely that we will get a crack at Lobbe this year then. If Ryder is not suspended then perhaps next year.

[GVGjr]

Ok. It is unlikely that we will get a crack at Lobbe this year then. If Ryder is not suspended then perhaps next year.

I don't quite get that but essentially Plough is saying Lobbe is surplus to Ports needs this year and the only way he will get a lot of game time is if Ryder is suspended for part of the season.

Remember it's just hypothetical scenarios we are throwing up.

[Mofra]

Just on Campbell, are we satisfied by now he's probably not up to it at this level?

Or is it a textbook case of big blokes generally needing a longer apprenticeship than others as they find ways to influence games more regularly?

Approaching his 5th season and seems he's been around for a while now but Campbell's only 23 years old and has the grand sum of 26 games on his resume. Granted his sample sizes aren't monstrous - and not withstanding the team's general upward trend too - but he saw healthy bumps in both hit-out and disposal averages last season.
Stefan Martin looked terrible until he was 25 or 26.
Ruckmen take way longer (which is why they rarely get drafted anymore, especially as 18 year olds)

[GVGjr]

Just on Campbell, are we satisfied by now he's probably not up to it at this level?

Or is it a textbook case of big blokes generally needing a longer apprenticeship than others as they find ways to influence games more regularly?

Approaching his 5th season and seems he's been around for a while now but Campbell's only 23 years old and has the grand sum of 26 games on his resume. Granted his sample sizes aren't monstrous - and not withstanding the team's general upward trend too - but he saw healthy bumps in both hit-out and disposal averages last season.

We've been a bit spoilt with young player contributions lately but need reliability rather than impact out of Tom. It'll be a critical year for him.

I'm more than happy with Campbell. If he improves he can still have a good career.

[GVGjr]

On valuing draft picks I just read the following

Under the AFL's new draft value index
Picks 15 and 18 = 2097 points.
Pick 5 = 1878 points.

Essendon would get a premium to take the Hawks offer.

[Ozza]

I'm more than happy with Campbell. If he improves he can still have a good career.

I tend to agree, I think Tom can make it. He turns 24 next month, so you would like to see him force his way in for more games and more impact next year - but I wouldn't say he has to unequivocally take over the sole 1st ruck role during this next season to be worth his spot on the list.

[GVGjr]

I tend to agree, I think Tom can make it. He turns 24 next month, so you would like to see him force his way in for more games and more impact next year - but I wouldn't say he has to unequivocally take over the sole 1st ruck role during this next season to be worth his spot on the list.

I think we are on the same page with TC. I think we have to give him another 2 years.

[Maddog37]

Campbell is still improving and only now getting close to fit enough. I still hold out some hope for Minno too but I reckon he needs to look at losing a lot of weight.

[boydogs]

On valuing draft picks I just read the following

Under the AFL's new draft value index
Picks 15 and 18 = 2097 points.
Pick 5 = 1878 points.

Essendon would get a premium to take the Hawks offer.

Essendon also giving up pick 41 = 412 points in the Hawthorn deal
If they can get straight pick 5 from St Kilda they're ahead

[hujsh]

I just don't see the point of playing Minson.. He clearly isn't suited to our style of play and I can't see this improving magically over this pre-season.

Obviously a bit to play out with how we use Roughead, but it really is time for Campbell to step-up.
Do you feel Campbell is more suited to our style than Minson? I'm not sure he's especially more mobile (but maybe he can be?)

[GVGjr]

Just to expand a bit on the teams that need to accumulate points for academy players Jay Clark has tweeted the following

Jay Clark ‏@ClarkyHeraldSun 50m50 minutes ago

GWS pick 8 (1551 points)
Ess pick 23 (815) & pick 25 (756) = 1571

GWS better off with 23 & 25 to use on academy players.

[bulldogtragic]

Just to expand a bit on the teams that need to accumulate points for academy players Jay Clark has tweeted the following

Jay Clark ‏@ClarkyHeraldSun 50m50 minutes ago

GWS pick 8 (1551 points)
Ess pick 23 (815) & pick 25 (756) = 1571

GWS better off with 23 & 25 to use on academy players.

Crazy, that Essendon could be gifted another top 10 pick and GWS sign up players. Surely this wasn't factored into this system?

[GVGjr]

Crazy, that Essendon could be gifted another top 10 pick and GWS sign up players. Surely this wasn't factored into this system?

I could see GWS wanting pick 18 and and 25 for pick 8 as they would then have 140 more points to cover their academy players.

[bulldogtragic]

I could see GWS wanting pick 18 and and 25 for pick 8 as they would then have 140 more points to cover their academy players.

True. GWS win, and Essendon win. Hardly seems anything like equalisation for the rest of the 16 clubs.

[Twodogs]

Just to expand a bit on the teams that need to accumulate points for academy players Jay Clark has tweeted the following

Jay Clark ‏@ClarkyHeraldSun 50m50 minutes ago

GWS pick 8 (1551 points)
Ess pick 23 (815) & pick 25 (756) = 1571

GWS better off with 23 & 25 to use on academy players.

Geez. I wonder where he read that idea first...

[Twodogs]

With GWS sizing up Stevie J I bet Geelong are spewing that they couldn't get that last minute deal for him that GWS proposed last year. I read and heard (newspaper and radio) that GWS offered two of their single digit picks for him (6 and 8?) but they couldn't contact him in time to do the deal.

I find it hard to believe they would have offered pick 6 or 8 let alone both for a guy who's played as many games as Steve Johnson.

[Remi Moses]

That was pretty much confirmed by Matthews a while ago.
My goodness they are desperate for the " star factor"

[GVGjr]

Geez. I wonder where he read that idea first...

All clubs have had a lot of time to work out their approach and would be all over this. I wonder if the penny has just dropped for a few of the journos now the the trade period has started. By the end of the trade period there should be some brilliant articles to read on how some clubs have worked the new options to their advantage.

[bulldogtragic]

I could see GWS wanting pick 18 and and 25 for pick 8 as they would then have 140 more points to cover their academy players.

If that happened Essendon have 8 and we 11. Is Talia worth that upgrade of 3 picks and a third rounder?

[GVGjr]

The Journo's now have their head around the draft index value and how it can be manipulated. Great example

The Hun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trades-2015-why-essendon-will-be-able-to-turn-picks-23-and-25-into-pick-8-in-this-years-draft/story-fnp04d70-1227572077558?sv=966736154b3b5cbb90a00226d2656d34)

[GVGjr]

Freo still looking at getting involved in a trade for McCartney from GWS.
They have pick 22 (Bennell deal) this year and obviously a future 1st round pick from next year they could trade but now appear to be open to trade a player.

If we were to get involved and potentially part with pick 11 in some deal for their pick 22 and a player the following might have some have appeal for us:
Michael Apeness - Ruckman who can also play forward might appeal. The knock on him is that he missed the year with a knee injury
Hayden Crozier - He's been with Freo for 4 seasons and has only played 35 games. Great skills but is more of a forward than genuine mid.
Matt Taberner - 198cm forward who can go into the ruck. Finished the season off below expectations.

Is there any interest in these guys or someone else from Freo?

[Ghost Dog]

I'd be surprised if Crowley didn't get a gig at some club.
A team like Melbourne or Brisbane would be foolish not to look at him.

Some suggestion Essendon are interested in Honeychurch.

[GVGjr]

Some suggestions Essendon were interested in Honeychurch.

Would we want to part with him and if so what sort of player or pick could be command?

[Ghost Dog]

Would we want to part with him and if so what sort of player or pick could be command?

All I know is we have a surplus of his 'type'. Essendon is not an ideal club to go to in my opinion - something is wrong with their culture. I'd be disappointed to lose him to Essendon - unless it was a great deal for us.
I've not seen enough of him play, being abroad, but the regular posters here who seem to have a lot of industry knowledge rate him.
How many players do we have to trade?

In his 2013 player profile it says 'Nat Fyfe' - like skills. NAB rising star award, which I forgot about.
What's his rate of improvement?

[Hotdog60]

Would we want to part with him and if so what sort of player or pick could be command?

That Daniher kid could be handy at CHF so just a straight swap seems fair with Esserdone. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Freo still looking at getting involved in a trade for McCartney from GWS.
They have pick 22 (Bennell deal) this year and obviously a future 1st round pick from next year they could trade but now appear to be open to trade a player.

If we were to get involved and potentially part with pick 11 in some deal for their pick 22 and a player the following might have some have appeal for us:
Michael Apeness - Ruckman who can also play forward might appeal. The knock on him is that he missed the year with a knee injury
Hayden Crozier - He's been with Freo for 4 seasons and has only played 35 games. Great skills but is more of a forward than genuine mid.
Matt Taberner - 198cm forward who can go into the ruck. Finished the season off below expectations.

Is there any interest in these guys or someone else from Freo?

I wonder if we could merge a few of your ideas for us:

Apeness and 22 for 11.
Target St Kilda pick 24. Talia, Hrovat etc. By taking the deal with GWS away from Essendon, St Kilda can ark up about getting 25 returned in Carlisle trade.
22 & 24 to GWS for pick 8.


Dogs: Apeness and pick 8 for pick 11 and Talia/Hrovat (still have pick 32)
Freo: Pick 11 to get McCarthy
Saints: Hrovat/Talia, block Essendon from the GWS trade of 23 & 25. If they got 25, it'd be effectively JC & these for guys for pick 5. Talia could be involved between Saints & Essendon also.
GWS: Get 22 & 24, better points than 23 & 25 from Essendon. Get pick 11 from us thru Freo and next year 1st rounder for McCarthy.

[chef]

Freo still looking at getting involved in a trade for McCartney from GWS.
They have pick 22 (Bennell deal) this year and obviously a future 1st round pick from next year they could trade but now appear to be open to trade a player.

If we were to get involved and potentially part with pick 11 in some deal for their pick 22 and a player the following might have some have appeal for us:
Michael Apeness - Ruckman who can also play forward might appeal. The knock on him is that he missed the year with a knee injury
Hayden Crozier - He's been with Freo for 4 seasons and has only played 35 games. Great skills but is more of a forward than genuine mid.
Matt Taberner - 198cm forward who can go into the ruck. Finished the season off below expectations.

Is there any interest in these guys or someone else from Freo?

Alex Pearce would be the one I'd want.

[F'scary]

All I know is we have a surplus of his 'type'. Essendon is not an ideal club to go to in my opinion - something is wrong with their culture. I'd be disappointed to lose him to Essendon - unless it was a great deal for us.
I've not seen enough of him play, being abroad, but the regular posters here who seem to have a lot of industry knowledge rate him.
How many players do we have to trade?

In his 2013 player profile it says 'Nat Fyfe' - like skills. NAB rising star award, which I forgot about.
What's his rate of improvement?

With respect to Honeychurch, he has plenty of upside to come although I don't know about the Nat Fyfe bit. We got him for pick 60, he would be worth around pick 30-40 on a trade for a pick, in my opinion.

[Ghost Dog]

With respect to Honeychurch, he has plenty of upside to come although I don't know about the Nat Fyfe bit. We got him for pick 60, he would be worth around pick 30-40 on a trade for a pick, in my opinion.

He won't want to leave. With Caleb Daniels a lock, he's finally not the shortest bloke on the team. :)
Reminds me of Daniel Cross a bit. Looks tough and a possible long term servant of the club.

Champion data had him at pick 15. He slipped to 60. Why the big drop?

[GVGjr]

Alex Pearce would be the one I'd want.

I couldn't see them parting with him but what an addition he would be. 200cm and very athletic and players forward and back.

[chef]

I couldn't see them parting with him but what an addition he would be. 200cm and very athletic and players forward and back.

Yeah, with McPharlin and Pav coming to the end he'd be a hard one to get. I guess it may depend on how desperate they are for a first round pick for McCartney.

He'd be the perfect get for us.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if we could merge a few of your ideas for us:

Apeness and 22 for 11.
Target St Kilda pick 24. Talia, Hrovat etc. By taking the deal with GWS away from Essendon, St Kilda can ark up about getting 25 returned in Carlisle trade.
22 & 24 to GWS for pick 8.


Dogs: Apeness and pick 8 for pick 11 and Talia/Hrovat (still have pick 32)
Freo: Pick 11 to get McCarthy
Saints: Hrovat/Talia, block Essendon from the GWS trade of 23 & 25. If they got 25, it'd be effectively JC & these for guys for pick 5. Talia could be involved between Saints & Essendon also.
GWS: Get 22 & 24, better points than 23 & 25 from Essendon. Get pick 11 from us thru Freo and next year 1st rounder for McCarthy.


It's going to take me a while to digest all this :)

[Twodogs]

He won't want to leave. With Caleb Daniels a lock, he's finally not the shortest bloke on the team. :)
Reminds me of Daniel Cross a bit. Looks tough and a possible long term servant of the club.

Champion data had him at pick 15. He slipped to 60. Why the big drop?

His height and was there a slight knock on his pace? I may have imagined the pace bit because he seems plenty quick to me.

[bulldogtragic]

It's going to take me a while to digest all this :)

For Dogs: It's essentially Hrovat for Apeness. Both similar draft picks, both average years. Talia essentially gets us from pick 11 to pick 8. We keep pick 32. Perhaps some swapping of later picks.

For Freo: They have ruck stocks. They get pick 11 to add to next years first rounder. That probably gets them McCarthy, to add to Bennell.

For Saints: They get JC & 25 and Hrovat for pick 5 & 24. If by adding in Talia they get pick 25 back and GWS use an academy player at 24, the pick 25 makes the trade effectively JC, Hrovat and access to Talia being involved for pick 5 and keeping a high second rounder.

For GWS: They get picks 22 & 24 which trumps Essendons trade of 23 & 25 for pick 8, which gives them more points. They also get pick 11 from Freo which we traded and a first rounder next year.

For Essendon: They get pick 5 and Talia for Carlisle and pick 25. On top of pick 4 and 23 = 4, 5, 23, 41, Luey, Talia.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if we could merge a few of your ideas for us:

Apeness and 22 for 11.
Target St Kilda pick 24. Talia, Hrovat etc. By taking the deal with GWS away from Essendon, St Kilda can ark up about getting 25 returned in Carlisle trade.
22 & 24 to GWS for pick 8.


Dogs: Apeness and pick 8 for pick 11 and Talia/Hrovat (still have pick 32)
Freo: Pick 11 to get McCarthy
Saints: Hrovat/Talia, block Essendon from the GWS trade of 23 & 25. If they got 25, it'd be effectively JC & these for guys for pick 5. Talia could be involved between Saints & Essendon also.
GWS: Get 22 & 24, better points than 23 & 25 from Essendon. Get pick 11 from us thru Freo and next year 1st rounder for McCarthy.

BT, what value are you putting on Talia and Hrovat? Assuming the Saints land Carlisle I don't think they also need Talia.
Hrovat is very unlikely to be traded unless a club was willing to pay at least fair market value and in this scenario I think he is undervalued.

I like the idea of getting a player for a player given our circumstances and maybe Fremantle could deal and a 3rd party could get involved.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, what value are you putting on Talia and Hrovat? Assuming the Saints land Carlisle I don't think they also need Talia.
Hrovat is very unlikely to be traded unless a club was willing to pay at least fair market value and in this scenario I think he is undervalued.

I like the idea of getting a player for a player given our circumstances and maybe Fremantle could deal and a 3rd party could get involved.

I've clarified above, but before I got in first. To us we get a three pick upgrade. Talia goes to Essendon in a trade for Carlisle. St Kilda clearly angling for pick 25 back. If Talia ends up at Essendon maybe 25 goes back. But we'd need to get GWS dealing with us for the pick trades so Essendon can send that back. As for Hrovat it's pick 24 which is about right if Melksham is worth pick 25 plus Talia included in the purchase price to facilitate the above trade.

[bulldogtragic]

Is there a gun still there are at pick 8 in your mind G?

[GVGjr]

Is there a gun still there are at pick 8 in your mind G?

That's probably the reason why I wouldn't be unhappy to downgrade pick 11 to either land us a needs based player or an improved position overall. There are plenty of good players but finding that player with upside is more of a gamble.
To me, getting us to pick 8 isn't necessarily a huge improvement unless there is a clear cut player that we want.

I think the reason why the Saints are trying to get Carlisle on the cheap and why the Bombers are insistent on pick 5 is that it thins out a bit after that.

As I said, it's a draft with plenty of good players but how many potential star players are there?

For a club like us that is building a list and given that we will probably only draft 3 players I don't think we can address our gaps with pick 11. I think we are chronically light on for key defenders and it's the reason why I wouldn't mind landing that needs based player via a trade but still maintaining something decent a bit later in the draft. You pay a premium for quality this year.

We can still land a very good player at 11 but I think we are being patient to see what we might get asked to help facilitate.

[bulldogtragic]

That's probably the reason why I wouldn't be unhappy to downgrade pick 11 to either land us a needs based player or an improved position overall. There are plenty of good players but finding that player with upside is more of a gamble.
To me, getting us to pick 8 isn't necessarily a huge improvement unless there is a clear cut player that we want.

I think the reason why the Saints are trying to get Carlisle on the cheap and why the Bombers are insistent on pick 5 is that it thins out a bit after that.

As I said, it's a draft with plenty of good players but how many potential star players are there?

For a club like us that is building a list and given that we will probably only draft 3 players I don't think we can address our gaps with pick 11. I think we are chronically light on for key defenders and it's the reason why I wouldn't mind landing that needs based player via a trade but still maintaining something decent a bit later in the draft. You pay a premium for quality this year.

We can still land a very good player at 11 but I think we are being patient to see what we might get asked to help facilitate.

What if Hawthorn would do 8 for 15 & 18?

[azabob]

Freo still looking at getting involved in a trade for McCartney from GWS.
They have pick 22 (Bennell deal) this year and obviously a future 1st round pick from next year they could trade but now appear to be open to trade a player.

If we were to get involved and potentially part with pick 11 in some deal for their pick 22 and a player the following might have some have appeal for us:
Michael Apeness - Ruckman who can also play forward might appeal. The knock on him is that he missed the year with a knee injury
Hayden Crozier - He's been with Freo for 4 seasons and has only played 35 games. Great skills but is more of a forward than genuine mid.
Matt Taberner - 198cm forward who can go into the ruck. Finished the season off below expectations.

Is there any interest in these guys or someone else from Freo?

The problem with Fremantle is that they have obviously been building for preimership so their list is very lopsided and not much younger talent on it - and what young talent is on there you'd suggest they'd be unwilling to give up. Unless they believe they can reload and go again in 2016/17.

I like all the suggestions you have put up and all could play a role for us. Interestingly all our from Victoria also, so the come home factor could be appealing.

Crozier would be a very good get but he is the type of player we have a lot of, so I don't think we should focus on him.

Taberner to me is the right size, but is he aggressive enough at the contest? From the limited I have seen of him, I don't think he is.

Apeness is the interesting one, I haven't seen him play at all, but I assume he and Tom Boyd would've played together at Eastern Rangers? It would be interesting to see how they combined together during the season.

Is Apeness able to physically impact the contest wether it be a ruck contest or a contested mark contest?

But as Chef said, Pearce would be the perfect fit for us, but its very unlikely they would let him go.

[F'scary]

He won't want to leave. With Caleb Daniels a lock, he's finally not the shortest bloke on the team. :)
Reminds me of Daniel Cross a bit. Looks tough and a possible long term servant of the club.

Champion data had him at pick 15. He slipped to 60. Why the big drop?

I am presuming it was because of his height and weight, at the time there was still the mania for "big bodied mids". And I wouldn't be giving him up cheaply, he got nearly a goal a game in 2015 (0.8 goals/game) and I'm sure he started as sub or was subbed at least once. One of his virtues is that he is a good mark for his size and has the aptitude for contested marking (as opposed to, say, Macrae who always positions himself for the spill from the contest). Honeychurch is tradeable only because of the competition in our club for the roles he plays.

[GVGjr]

Apeness is the interesting one, I haven't seen him play at all, but I assume he and Tom Boyd would've played together at Eastern Rangers? It would be interesting to see how they combined together during the season.

Is Apeness able to physically impact the contest wether it be a ruck contest or a contested mark contest?

But as Chef said, Pearce would be the perfect fit for us, but its very unlikely they would let him go.

Yep, they played together at Eastern and combined with each other well.
Apeness isn't a pure ruckman in my opinion but he would be a better option up forward than say Roughead.

The more I look at a potential deal with Freo, the more I like Chef's suggestion of Alex Pearce. Imagine another 15 games of development into him and he could be a very good defender. Freo losing McPharlin is probably the reason why they wouldn't trade him unless they got a massive offer.

[GVGjr]

He won't want to leave. With Caleb Daniels a lock, he's finally not the shortest bloke on the team. :)
Reminds me of Daniel Cross a bit. Looks tough and a possible long term servant of the club.

Champion data had him at pick 15. He slipped to 60. Why the big drop?

Just his size.

[Ghost Dog]

Historically we have not really been a big part of three way trades have we?
I'd be disappointed to lose any youngsters before we see what they are really made of.

[bulldogtragic]

Historically we have not really been a big part of three way trades have we?
I'd be disappointed to lose any youngsters before we see what they are really made of.

Don't think so. The Powell, Monty, Cameron, Eagleton trade comes to mind though.

[Ghost Dog]

I am presuming it was because of his height and weight, at the time there was still the mania for "big bodied mids". And I wouldn't be giving him up cheaply, he got nearly a goal a game in 2015 (0.8 goals/game) and I'm sure he started as sub or was subbed at least once. One of his virtues is that he is a good mark for his size and has the aptitude for contested marking (as opposed to, say, Macrae who always positions himself for the spill from the contest). Honeychurch is tradeable only because of the competition in our club for the roles he plays.

Skills pay the bills as they say. If he can use the ball as well as they say, I don't want us to let him go. It was heart breaking to watch us miss those easy goals in the prelim. Just the style of the body, but when you look at him, as I said like Crossy, he just looks like he has a lot of footy in him.

[F'scary]

Skills pay the bills as they say. If he can use the ball as well as they say, I don't want us to let him go. It was heart breaking to watch us miss those easy goals in the prelim. Just the style of the body, but when you look at him, as I said like Crossy, he just looks like he has a lot of footy in him.

Skills-wise, he is ok, not brilliant. His big pluses are that he works very hard, is courageous, reads the play well, good mark for his size and can sniff a goal opportunity.

[Ghost Dog]

Skills-wise, he is ok, not brilliant. His big pluses are that he works very hard, is courageous, reads the play well, good mark for his size and can sniff a goal opportunity.

Sounds a bit like Crossy! It's obvious the club wants a ruck and to shore up our defence. I can't see us getting a trade that would fill these needs with Mitch.
Ryan Crowley is not doing anything now. He was a defensive midfielder early on. We delisted Goodes and in a young side, I can see a space for a hard nosed defender who can protect our boys and take the heat off a few. He would relish that role I think. Idea?
Useless stats
2012 BOF freo
2013 Should have been AA according to google.

[soupman]

Sounds a bit like Crossy! It's obvious the club wants a ruck and to shore up our defence. I can't see us getting a trade that would fill these needs with Mitch.
Ryan Crowley is not doing anything now. He was a defensive midfielder early on. We delisted Goodes and in a young side, I can see a space for a hard nosed defender who can protect our boys and take the heat off a few. He would relish that role I think. Idea?
Useless stats
2012 BOF freo
2013 Should have been AA according to google.

No chance. Crowley only plays as a lock down player. Beveridge doesn't use lock down players anywhere.

[Ghost Dog]

No chance. Crowley only plays as a lock down player. Beveridge doesn't use lock down players anywhere.

Not sure of that line of thinking because Liam Picken was re-invented into a really useful player. If Crowley can still keep up, could be a useful signing for a year for bugger all. Would at least be as good as Brett in a defensive role, and add a bit of depth.
The only knock I can see is if he can still keep up and play in defence. We don't need a tagger.

[F'scary]

Sounds a bit like Crossy! It's obvious the club wants a ruck and to shore up our defence. I can't see us getting a trade that would fill these needs with Mitch.
Ryan Crowley is not doing anything now. He was a defensive midfielder early on. We delisted Goodes and in a young side, I can see a space for a hard nosed defender who can protect our boys and take the heat off a few. He would relish that role I think. Idea?
Useless stats
2012 BOF freo
2013 Should have been AA according to google.

GD, Honeychurch is a very different player to Cross. He's a little guy (176cm) whereas Cross at 187cm and around 86kg was what is nowdays being termed a big bodied midfielder. Honeychurch's best fit is as a small forward who takes a turn in the midfield. Having said that, he could also be a BP if trained into that role.

[F'scary]

not sure if it has been discussed already - forgive if so - but could ex-cat Mitch Brown be an acquisition for a KPB role in 2016? He will be nominating for the national draft, I don't know the general level of interest in him among AFL clubs but he would have to be of interest to us given the Talia situation, the fact that Hamling and Roberts are still developing, that Roughead might be required to play some games in the ruck, FP or BP and that we don't have a CHF (for which Hamling or Roughead or Roberts could be candidates, perhaps). Interested in reading any thoughts on this suggestion.

[GVGjr]

GD, Honeychurch is a very different player to Cross. He's a little guy (176cm) whereas Cross at 187cm and around 86kg was what is nowdays being termed a big bodied midfielder. Honeychurch's best fit is as a small forward who takes a turn in the midfield. Having said that, he could also be a BP if trained into that role.

The game is changing. Sides want big midfielders and 3 small forwards to lock the ball in once it hits the ground. Chaotic entries into the forward line have provided smaller players an opportunity to play in other positions than just the midfield.

I don't see HC as a defender but it's not a bad suggestion and something they could work on however, if he is to force his way into a regular senior player it needs to be as a small forward who makes the most of his opportunities, uses the ball well and someone who hunts down the opposition when it spills their way.

His kicking for goal concerns me.

[F'scary]

The game is changing. Sides want big midfielders and 3 small forwards to lock the ball in once it hits the ground. Chaotic entries into the forward line have provided smaller players an opportunity to play in other positions than just the midfield.

I don't see HC as a defender but it's not a bad suggestion and something they could work on however, if he is to force his way into a regular senior player it needs to be as a small forward who makes the most of his opportunities, uses the ball well and someone who hunts down the opposition when it spills their way.

His kicking for goal concerns me.

Agree, unfortunately, his kicking for goal has been iffy: 10 goals, 11 behinds in 14 games since being drafted. Like quite a few others, he is best when he doesn't have a lot of time to think about it.

[GVGjr]

Report on AFL.com is that Freo aren't prepared to trade players to accommodate a move by McCartney. They are hoping that GWS take 22 and next years first round pick.

[Ghost Dog]

GD, Honeychurch is a very different player to Cross. He's a little guy (176cm) whereas Cross at 187cm and around 86kg was what is nowdays being termed a big bodied midfielder. Honeychurch's best fit is as a small forward who takes a turn in the midfield. Having said that, he could also be a BP if trained into that role.

A mini-me Crossy then. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Report on AFL.com is that Freo aren't prepared to trade players to accommodate a move by McCartney. They are hoping that GWS take 22 and next years first round pick.

GWS would be bent over in that scenario. At least with the Boyd deal they got an AFL captain and gun player, pick 6 and $600,000 or so in salary relief. 22 and 16-18 next year is a bad deal and I can't see them taking it. Clubs should be more willing to deal if trying to buy guns out of other clubs. St Kilda and Freo owe it to the players do deal frankly and quickly as we did.

[F'scary]

A mini-me Crossy then. ;)

That he may be.

[hujsh]

A mini-me Crossy then. ;)

Thankfully he's faster than that.

[bulldogtragic]

Has anyone seen much of Tim O'Brien, the forward Hawthorn picked up with the swap of picks in which we picked up Hrovat? Cicely seems ahead of him and if Schoenmakers plays forward, then he might as well look for a new home before next year.

[GVGjr]

Has anyone seen much of Tim O'Brien, the forward Hawthorn picked up with the swap of picks in which we picked up Hrovat? Cicely seems ahead of him and if Schoenmakers plays forward, then he might as well look for a new home before next year.

Played all season in the VFL with mixed results. Some good games and some poor one but inconsistent. I don't think he played in the VFL GF.

[Remi Moses]

Wonder if we're looking at Astbury?
Apparently lions have cooled, which would be injury history related you'd think.
I think Freo would want a first rounder for Pierce, and to get McCarthy they're going to need to get one.
Teams are really carrying on like a teenager first getting a credit card in giving up future first rounders .

[Remi Moses]

Has anyone seen much of Tim O'Brien, the forward Hawthorn picked up with the swap of picks in which we picked up Hrovat? Cicely seems ahead of him and if Schoenmakers plays forward, then he might as well look for a new home before next year.
We've got plenty of players similar.
Interestingly that was the pick we gave them for Brian, and he hasn't really come on after a promising start.

[GVGjr]

Report on AFL.com is that Freo aren't prepared to trade players to accommodate a move by McCartney. They are hoping that GWS take 22 and next years first round pick.



I think Freo would want a first rounder for Pierce, and to get McCarthy they're going to need to get one.
Teams are really carrying on like a teenager first getting a credit card in giving up future first rounders .

As above, Freo have made it clear that they won't trade players to sweeten the offer to get McCartney. Things might change but that's their current position.

[jazzadogs]

Is Pearce worth pick 11? I would suggest that is overs, but he has shown plenty in a small sample size and is a better bet than the lottery of draft day.

Talia and 11 for Pearce and a later pick? (i don't care if Talia doesn't want to go there, he'll go wherever we damn well send him!...just don't tell the AFLPA)

[GVGjr]

Is Pearce worth pick 11? I would suggest that is overs, but he has shown plenty in a small sample size and is a better bet than the lottery of draft day.

Talia and 11 for Pearce and a later pick? (i don't care if Talia doesn't want to go there, he'll go wherever we damn well send him!...just don't tell the AFLPA)

No he is not worth pick 11, we would have been looking to get something back (pick 22) in that now very unlikely scenario.
The thought behind it was that it would have given us a young KPD and that we would still have had some currency in the 2nd round. Remember we will probably only make 3 draft selections this year.

Freo have made their position public and I can't see that changing. I think it's more likely we will stick with what we have.

[GVGjr]

This makes a bit of sense

From AFL.com

Two of the big fish of the exchange period could be tied into the same deal in a four-way trade.

The Age reports St Kilda and Port Adelaide have put forward an option for Gold Coast forward Charlie Dixon to be a part of the Jake Carlisle deal.

So far the Power have baulked at the Suns' demands for two first-round picks for Dixon, while the Saints have been unwilling to offer Essendon pick five in isolation in exchange for Carlisle.

The Bombers swiftly knocked back the Saints' offer last week of pick five and 63 for Carlisle and Essendon's two second-round selections.

But reports suggest both players could be involved in a mega-trade to deliver all parties a fair outcome.
In the deal, Port Adelaide would trade its pick 10 and likely a future first-round selection to St Kilda for pick 5. The Saints would hand over pick 10 for Carlisle, and Port would give pick No.5 to the Suns for Dixon.

Such a deal would give the Suns picks three and five, as well as No. 16 and 19, at November's NAB AFL Draft.

[bornadog]

I wonder if Essendon would be happy with that deal. Is pick 10 on it's own better than 15 and 18?

[bulldogtragic]

^^

That knocks us out of a trade involvement. That leaves GCS and Hawthorn with 2 late first round picks. I wonder if we were interested in trading 11 to either club for two later first rounders?

[Bulldog Joe]

No he is not worth pick 11, we would have been looking to get something back (pick 22) in that now very unlikely scenario.
The thought behind it was that it would have given us a young KPD and that we would still have had some currency in the 2nd round. Remember we will probably only make 3 draft selections this year.

Freo have made their position public and I can't see that changing. I think it's more likely we will stick with what we have.

I could cope with pick 11 for Alex Pearce.
He has had 2 years in the system and shown he can play as a KPD, which is a real need for us.

He would grow and mature with our list and there is more certainty with him than this years pick 11.

[jazzadogs]

This makes a bit of sense

From AFL.com

Two of the big fish of the exchange period could be tied into the same deal in a four-way trade.

The Age reports St Kilda and Port Adelaide have put forward an option for Gold Coast forward Charlie Dixon to be a part of the Jake Carlisle deal.

So far the Power have baulked at the Suns' demands for two first-round picks for Dixon, while the Saints have been unwilling to offer Essendon pick five in isolation in exchange for Carlisle.

The Bombers swiftly knocked back the Saints' offer last week of pick five and 63 for Carlisle and Essendon's two second-round selections.

But reports suggest both players could be involved in a mega-trade to deliver all parties a fair outcome.
In the deal, Port Adelaide would trade its pick 10 and likely a future first-round selection to St Kilda for pick 5. The Saints would hand over pick 10 for Carlisle, and Port would give pick No.5 to the Suns for Dixon.

Such a deal would give the Suns picks three and five, as well as No. 16 and 19, at November's NAB AFL Draft.

Port must be getting something else back, otherwise they are still giving away two first round picks for Dixon??

Saints do well getting Carlisle and a future pick, particularly if Port bomb again!

[G-Mo77]

I wonder if Essendon would be happy with that deal. Is pick 10 on it's own better than 15 and 18?

Of course they will. They'll get their media guys to talk it up and how great they were at getting the best possible deal.

[GVGjr]

Bulldogs online have tweeted the following

RUMOR MILL:
Western Bulldogs have expressed interest again in Gold Coast Defender Steven May.

The 23 year old Key Defender has been on the Dogs radar the past couple of seasons and Bulldogs hope to land a deal for him in the last three days of trade period.

The Bulldogs have also expressed interested in Gold Coast's Pick 3



I'm not sure what the source is behind this but they do get some right.

[bulldogtragic]

Bulldogs online have tweeted the following

RUMOR MILL:
Western Bulldogs have expressed interest again in Gold Coast Defender Steven May.

The 23 year old Key Defender has been on the Dogs radar the past couple of seasons and Bulldogs hope to land a deal for him in the last three days of trade period.

The Bulldogs have also expressed interested in Gold Coast's Pick 3



I'm not sure what the source is behind this but they do get some right.

What would GCS want in terms of player/s to get us to pick 3? Minson, Talia and HC plus pick 11.

I like May a lot, so that's a good target IMO.

[G-Mo77]

Bulldogs online have tweeted the following

RUMOR MILL:
Western Bulldogs have expressed interest again in Gold Coast Defender Steven May.

The 23 year old Key Defender has been on the Dogs radar the past couple of seasons and Bulldogs hope to land a deal for him in the last three days of trade period.

The Bulldogs have also expressed interested in Gold Coast's Pick 3



I'm not sure what the source is behind this but they do get some right.

Would be a good fit, can't see us getting it done though. I'm guessing we'd have to give up 11 and get something back with May in return or am I underrating May?

[GVGjr]

Would be a good fit, can't see us getting it done though. I'm guessing we'd have to give up 11 and get something back with May in return or am I underrating May?

If I was GCS I would regard him as someone I wouldn't trade. 73 senior games and yet to turn 24. He would be a great addition but like you I don't see how that deal gets done.

[The Doctor]

Pick 11 for May. I would do it

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 11 for May. I would do it

I hope to see Talia in a package. Something like 11 & Talia for Hawthorns 15 & 18. Hawthorn then trades Talia with Essendon for player/pick. Then 15 on May. 18 to the draft.

[GVGjr]

Pick 11 for May. I would do it

Do you think GCS would consider that? It's a great offer for them to consider.

I'd probably insist on an swap of 3rd round picks as well which would result in our pick 51 for their pick 43.
It doesn't sound like much but I'd want that upgrade.

[Axe Man]

I can't see any reason that Gold Coast would trade their best key defender who is contracted until the end of 2017.

They won't accept pick 10 for Charlie Dixon who is uncontracted, no way would they let May go for pick 11.

[GVGjr]

I can't see any reason that Gold Coast would trade their best key defender who is contracted until the end of 2017.

They won't accept pick 10 for Charlie Dixon who is uncontracted, no way would they let May go for pick 11.

I think it's a long shot and the source of this speculation hasn't been overly accurate in the past.
May is not a star player but he is very effective at keeping big name forwards in check.

[G-Mo77]

I think it's a long shot and the source of this speculation hasn't been overly accurate in the past.
May is not a star player but he is very effective at keeping big name forwards in check.

To be fair to Bulldogs Online they did say we have expressed interest. It doesn't mean we're going to get him. We've probably expressed interest in heaps of other players as well so I don't see the reason to doubt them on this.