Why arent we playing Tom Boyd?

[TheHunter7]

I think Redpath has been doing quite well the last few weeks, but surely Boyd is our future and a stronger candidate shouldnt he get another crack before finals at least?

[GVGjr]

I think Redpath has been doing quite well the last few weeks, but surely Boyd is our future and a stronger candidate shouldnt he get another crack before finals at least?

Given he hasn't been selected this week he won't get a crack before the finals. I don't quite understand why Redpath is ahead of him because I think Boyd is a better forward and a fair bit better when asked to do some ruck work.

It's a good question you pose and I'm sure there will be a number of different opinions.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Tom Boyd clearly is the future. But suddenly and probably unexpectedly, as the season has unfolded we've clearly got 'the now' to plan for. Based on Tom's output to date he is clearly in a development phase both body wise and footy wise. I think right now with the opportunity that our club has finals wise our selections are about what is going to allow us to best capitalise on this chance. Tom probably isn't able to perform the role that Bevo thinks is necessary to the team's fortunes right now is my guess

[bulldogtragic]

Because he's shite.

With Loving Hate & Yours Truly,

Leigh Matthews.

[LostDoggy]

2 theories, not sure of either:
- TB has been given specific issues to work on at Footscray and yet to convince MC he has addressed them.
- Has been kept fresh to be impact, x-factor type for finals.

[whythelongface]

Good question. Think it is more about structure. Don't see it being on form as Redpath has only been average, however it appears that he plays further up the ground allowing for more space in our forward line for the likes of Stringer, Crameri, Dickson and some of our smaller brigade to run into.

[Twodogs]

I thought I heard Bevo say he would bring Tom into the seniors for the North match. It was in the week leading up to the West Coast game.

[TheHunter7]

I don't wanna tread on the toes of the Best 22 forum, but I believe Tom Boyd is in our best 22. I do like your idea that we are keeping him as a wildcard for finals, however I would've liked to see him get quality first grade game time against the Lions.

[comrade]

2 theories, not sure of either:
- TB has been given specific issues to work on at Footscray and yet to convince MC he has addressed them.
- Has been kept fresh to be impact, x-factor type for finals.

Good point, though I'm leaning towards your first theory.

I just think his lack of fitness is holding him back. He seems to have gotten bulkier as the year has progressed.

In a fast, gruelling final, I fear he'd blow up and leave us a man down.

Really needs a huge pre-season and develop a decent tank. Then we've got a monster on our hands.

[The Pie Man]

Good point, though I'm leaning towards your first theory.

I just think his lack of fitness is holding him back. He seems to have gotten bulkier as the year has progressed.

In a fast, gruelling final, I fear he'd blow up and leave us a man down.

Really needs a huge pre-season and develop a decent tank. Then we've got a monster on our hands.

Really does need to wear out a few pairs of sneakers this summer.

Also suspect there's a bit of chemistry between Redpath/Stringer/Crameri. Not that you'd want a key defender to get it 20 more times than your key forward, but I'm guessing they're taking a 'it's working' view for now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm hopeful we'll bring Boyd into the side next week 'fresh'.

My main concern with Redpath is that he's a poor mark AND gets outmarked. Boyd is a better mark and rarely is actually outmarked. Their ruck work is probably similar, Redpath a slight edge on fitness.

I really don't think we can go into a final with Redpath getting outmarked so often, which happens time and again against decent opponents. If finals are played true to form, there will be more long kicks into F50 and we need somebody who at the very least brings it to his feet (Boyd).

[jeemak]

Boyd's issue is he's a bit unfit at present, and with the game just about to get a lot quicker he's going to become a greater liability than he was mid season when he was getting regular games.

I have very little doubt that if he was fitter he'd be playing ahead of Redpath, but he isn't and it's not likely we'll see him again this year.

[LostDoggy]

I have very little doubt that if he was fitter he'd be playing ahead of Redpath, but he isn't and it's not likely we'll see him again this year.

Agreed. If Boyd was in finals contention he would be playing this week. The coach obviously likes what Redpath is able to do. And more importantly, our forward line has done great things with this current structure.

[comrade]

I'm hopeful we'll bring Boyd into the side next week 'fresh'.

My main concern with Redpath is that he's a poor mark AND gets outmarked. Boyd is a better mark and rarely is actually outmarked. Their ruck work is probably similar, Redpath a slight edge on fitness.

I really don't think we can go into a final with Redpath getting outmarked so often, which happens time and again against decent opponents. If finals are played true to form, there will be more long kicks into F50 and we need somebody who at the very least brings it to his feet (Boyd).

Yep, Redders can be a little on the Liam Jones side with his leading patterns. Someone like Rance would have a field day.

That's why I'm bullish on Boyd. NO ONE out marks him. Ever.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Boyd's issue is he's a bit unfit at present, and with the game just about to get a lot quicker he's going to become a greater liability than he was mid season when he was getting regular games.

I have very little doubt that if he was fitter he'd be playing ahead of Redpath, but he isn't and it's not likely we'll see him again this year.

Is Redpath really that much fitter though? I think Boyd's game is a bit ahead of big Jack's in all areas with the exception of fitness. I'd hate to see us "clogged up" in week 1 of the finals, with Redpath getting outmarked and ran off at will. I feel much more confident that Boyd will mark it/bring it the front.

[Rocco Jones]

I do get why we have Redders ahead of Tom but I would go the other way. Redders is fitter but most of that is headless chook kind of running.

[bulldogtragic]

I do get why we have Redders ahead of Tom but I would go the other way. Redders is fitter but most of that is headless chook kind of running.

Add in wrestling to over compensate, plus a few dumb, dumb, dumb free kicks against. Redders might be the 'right now' player, but if Tom Boyd wants (and we want) to become a big game KPF then we need to start exposing him to big games and everything that comes with it. Pressure, midfield disposal under pressure and of course taking a dive when touched by a full back in the slightest before the start of third quarter of a prelim. That's literally the stuff and experience that wins prelims by big forwards.

[bornadog]

Add in wrestling to over compensate, plus a few dumb, dumb, dumb free kicks against. Redders might be the 'right now' player, but if Tom Boyd wants (and we want) to become a big game KPF then we need to start exposing him to big games and everything that comes with it. Pressure, midfield disposal under pressure and of course taking a dive when touched by a full back in the slightest before the start of third quarter of a prelim. That's literally the stuff and experience that wins prelims by big forwards.

I am surprised he is allowed to play VFL finals, but then again, I don't know the rules in who can and who can't.

Edit:
[20.5 Notwithstanding the provisions of this Rule 20, except for Regulation 20.6 below,when a Club has both of its Senior Grade (AFL or VFL) teams engaged on the same weekend, the selection of players in the VFL Senior Grade team shall be unrestricted, provided a player has participated in at least one (AFL or VFL) Senior Grade or AFL Victoria Development League match in that relevant season.

[jeemak]

Is Redpath really that much fitter though? I think Boyd's game is a bit ahead of big Jack's in all areas with the exception of fitness. I'd hate to see us "clogged up" in week 1 of the finals, with Redpath getting outmarked and ran off at will. I feel much more confident that Boyd will mark it/bring it the front.

Their numbers for the most part tip in favour of Redpath, aside from free kicks against which favour Boyd.

Just from watching I get the impression the fitness stakes are tipped in Red's favour, and that he's more likely to run down a defender with pace than what Boyd is.

Having gone back Boyd hasn't performed overly well at VFL level and if he had have been a bit more prolific there then it would be easier to pin the potential benefits of him playing in an AFL final for development's sake than it is now.

If he has a big week and runs out the game well, and Redpath doesn't do a lot against Brisbane then he's right back in the hunt. I've just been given the impression that after 14 games he's a little over done.

[KT31]

Would love to see Tommy get a gig, if Redpath was miles ahead I could understand but he certainly isn't.
Seem to be missing out on giving a kid some valuable game time and finals experience.

[Rocco Jones]

A factor could be Tom struggling on a bigger ground in the MCG. In his two games at the G this season, he has a grand total of 5 disposals.

[stefoid]

We are more unpredictable without Boyd in the team, and its resulting in more goals. Its good for the team to learn to live without him so that he can end up being an extra cog in it, rather than dominating it.

maybe

[1eyedog]

Yep, Redders can be a little on the Liam Jones side with his leading patterns. Someone like Rance would have a field day.

That's why I'm bullish on Boyd. NO ONE out marks him. Ever.

Redpath has way better leading patterns than Jones, gets to more contests but drops more marks. His leading patterns aren't the issue IMO. When you're working hard and dropping as many marks as he does I'd actually be looking at his fitness.

[Ghost Dog]

We are more unpredictable without Boyd in the team, and its resulting in more goals. Its good for the team to learn to live without him so that he can end up being an extra cog in it, rather than dominating it.

maybe

Redpath and Boyd are really similar. How is playing Redpath measurably more unpredictable than Boyd? Actually Boyd is a really smart player, with taps to advantage. Redpath is more of a bully around packs, and loves the hard stuff. But really, what is the big dif?

[The Underdog]

Redpath and Boyd are really similar. How is playing Redpath measurably more unpredictable than Boyd? Actually Boyd is a really smart player, with taps to advantage. Redpath is more of a bully around packs, and loves the hard stuff. But really, what is the big dif?

The one thing that has struck me about Boyd is how slow he is. For a forward line that's functioning on fast movement, unpredictability and suffocating pressure, that doesn't really fit. Redpath fits slightly better into that at the moment. I thought Jack had an absolute shocker last week but he's clearly the MC's preferred option in that role at the moment.

[ReLoad]

The one thing that has struck me about Boyd is how slow he is. For a forward line that's functioning on fast movement, unpredictability and suffocating pressure, that doesn't really fit. Redpath fits slightly better into that at the moment. I thought Jack had an absolute shocker last week but he's clearly the MC's preferred option in that role at the moment.

I'll concede that Redpath wasn't great last week, mind you our whole team wasn't electric till the last quarter, but Boyds last 2 weeks in the VFL has been worse, at one point til half way through the Weribee game he hadn't taken a mark for 6 quarters!!!

If Boyd was tearing it up (which at one point he was, but coincided with Redpath playing well) I'd be all over it, but right now today Redpath is a better option.

The future is a different story of course.

[Go_Dogs]

I'd love to see Boyd back, but suspect it won't happen now.

Boyd seems to be our better bet for finals based on his ability to create a contest deep and bring a ball to ground. This may be something we lack with a combination of Redpath, Stringer and Crameri. I guess we'll find out in the next 9 days.

[merantau]

If Boyd was fitter he would be in the side.

[Bulldog Joe]

At the moment I believe that Redpath brings more to the table then Tommy.

There are plenty highlighting that Redpath drops too many marks, but clearly Boyd is also guilty of that. However, Boyd is still tracking very well. He has just turned 20 and he has a big frame.

We really need to have some patience with him and let him build his strength and confidence. We should also remember that he is yet to have a full pre-season with his appendix operation making him a late starter last year.

Currently Redpath brings a strength and aggression that Boyd lacks. He is also more able to impact in the crash and bash of ruck contests.

[wb_age]

Great thread.

I see the difference as mentioned prior to be a combination of fitness and Boyd's present inability to lead as a result.

Watching the VFL on the weekend, it was great to see Boyd kick the winning goal but am I being too pedantic in suggesting he was showing poor body language and had a bit of the sulks when he was moved to the bench in the 3rd quarter IIRC?

[Hot_Doggies]

The fact that Boyd is slow and can't mark might have something to do with it.

[TheHunter7]

The fact that Boyd is slow and can't mark might have something to do with it.

I have rarely seen Redpath take a great pack mark in the last few weeks either, our forward line depends on Cramers and Stringer at this point in time, but Tom has the potential in the future to rip the key defender apart and kick the 4-5 goals in a game in a pressure position. Like i said i would've liked to see him play this weekend but the MC has done a great job this year so i am going to back them.

[Mofra]

Tom at least competes in the air and brings the ball to ground.
I would have played him this week.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think what this means is Tom won't play again till next season. I think we want him to play out the year in the VFL and continue to work on things there

[always right]

Bevo is far more patient than we are.

[Rocket Science]

The fact that Boyd is slow and can't mark might have something to do with it.

Redpath brings other elements to the table at the moment but marking isn't one of them. His positioning, lead-timing and hands all need major work.

Of course Boyd's game also needs significant work but he's already a threat in pack marking situations.

[Happy Days]

I think we've all nailed it - The Boss is slower and probably not fit enough yet in the eyes of the selection committee.

Redpath (who I still think is very bad) is quicker and can apply pressure to a satisfactory degree. I know that the coaching staff love him too. He's a liability when the ball hits the deck which makes his inability to catch anything that much more of a problem, and I think his biceps overstate his aggression, but he's more in line with what the coaching staff want.

For some reason.

If we have to play one, I'd be playing Boyd; aren't finals impossible to win without "that one big key forward who hurr durr SEPTEMBER"? Can't wait for us losing a final to be pinned on poor Jack.

[The Pie Man]

Redpath brings other elements to the table at the moment but marking isn't one of them. His positioning, lead-timing and hands all need major work.

Of course Boyd's game also needs significant work but he's already a threat in pack marking situations.

Not on last week's VFL evidence.

[BulldogBelle]

Redpath is good in the ruck and his centre clearance work is sometimes fantastic. Redpath can also physically hurt the opposition and send them off the ground. He has been dropping marks on and off all year. If he can hang onto his marks the premiership is ours. IF.

Boyd is good in the ruck and seems to win a fair share of hit-outs. Boyd was pathetic against the Bombers a few weeks ago not getting a mark at full-forward. Against Werribee last week he never got a mark at full-forward either but he took about 5 marks around the centre-half forward region and did some useful work when in the ruck including accurate field kicking. He still has to learn proper bio-mechanics of marking - bent elbows and cupped hands rather than straight arms and flat hands at the moment.

I don't like the idea that "Boyd straightens us up." Supposingly thus providing a focal point for attack, so we don't zig-zag all over the place. This provides a focal point for opposition defence also. Boyd looked much better at centre-half-forward last week, taking marks on the run.

My guess regarding why Boyd has not replaced Redpath would be a combination of achievements that Boyd has not attained at VFL level combined with the centre-clearance usefulness of Redpath and the success of Crameri and Stringer duo.

[Ghost Dog]

I think we've all nailed it - The Boss is slower and probably not fit enough yet in the eyes of the selection committee.

Redpath (who I still think is very bad) is quicker and can apply pressure to a satisfactory degree. I know that the coaching staff love him too. He's a liability when the ball hits the deck which makes his inability to catch anything that much more of a problem, and I think his biceps overstate his aggression, but he's more in line with what the coaching staff want.

For some reason.

If we have to play one, I'd be playing Boyd; aren't finals impossible to win without "that one big key forward who hurr durr SEPTEMBER"? Can't wait for us losing a final to be pinned on poor Jack.

? Aggressive enough? When he has the ball in a pack he will maul opponents. And his ruck work, smashing it to Stringer to goal was sublime. I think he's aggressive enough don't you?

[Twodogs]

Redpath is good in the ruck and his centre clearance work is sometimes fantastic. Redpath can also physically hurt the opposition and send them off the ground. He has been dropping marks on and off all year. If he can hang onto his marks the premiership is ours. IF.

Boyd is good in the ruck and seems to win a fair share of hit-outs. Boyd was pathetic against the Bombers a few weeks ago not getting a mark at full-forward. Against Werribee last week he never got a mark at full-forward either but he took about 5 marks around the centre-half forward region and did some useful work when in the ruck including accurate field kicking. He still has to learn proper bio-mechanics of marking - bent elbows and cupped hands rather than straight arms and flat hands at the moment.

I don't like the idea that "Boyd straightens us up." Supposingly thus providing a focal point for attack, so we don't zig-zag all over the place. This provides a focal point for opposition defence also. Boyd looked much better at centre-half-forward last week, taking marks on the run.

My guess regarding why Boyd has not replaced Redpath would be a combination of achievements that Boyd has not attained at VFL level combined with the centre-clearance usefulness of Redpath and the success of Crameri and Stringer duo.

Yep good point. He seems to be doing it all but the simple bits at the moment. If he can learn just to relax a bit so the ball doesn't bounce off him in marking contests then we'd all be a lot happier.

[Bulldog4life]

I have trust in the MC. Redpath seems to be doing what they want him to do whether Boyd might be doing it in the VFL we don't really know. Personally I like both players and can see them playing in the same team next year. Maybe no sub next year might sway the MC to have two big forwards in. Time will tell.

[Happy Days]

? Aggressive enough? When he has the ball in a pack he will maul opponents. And his ruck work, smashing it to Stringer to goal was sublime. I think he's aggressive enough don't you?

I think it's really overstated in an attempt to get him over as some sort of throwback by commentators. The hit to Stringer was fantastic but it was merely one piece of play.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Big Jacks form line:

v North he had 5 disposals (1 kick) and 4 hitouts. Fail.
v WCE he had 10 disposals (2.1) and 8 hitouts. Pass perhaps, but he got killed on rebound/gave away a bad free kick.
v Dees he had 8 disposals (2.0) and 4 hitouts. In an almost 100 point win, I'd expect more.
v Port he had 13 disposals (4.0) and 3 hitouts. Pass. His best game, although it all came in the last quarter.
v Dons he had 13 disposals (0.2) and 3 hitouts. Fail in a huge win.
v Pies he had 10 disposals (1.2) and 3 hitouts. We need more.
v Cats he had 7 disposals (1.1) and 2 hitouts. Dominated by Taylor.

If he can kick 2 goals per game and be competitive, Big Jack is our 'Leigh Brown' in that aggressive, versatile role - and probably better suited to our side right now. But some of his games have been awful (v Cats/Norf) in that he's getting out-marked and offering nothing in the ruck. When that happens he becomes a massive liability.

Could Tom Campbell play the same role but better? He's arguably our best ruck and has both Redpath/Boyd covered for miles in that regard. In terms of forward craft, is Campbell any less mobile than Jack/Tom? He won't get out-marked like Jack, he's fitter than Boyd. Downside is he's less likely to bob up and kick 3-4 like the other two possibly could - but having said that, the other two have only done it once or twice. All three won't be applying much defensive pressure.

I think it could be time to go with the Campbell/Roughead combination, who offer about the same up forward and much more in the ruck. The advantage of having both Tom/Roughy is that we can split the time in ruck more efficiently and then sub the less effective ruck, something we simply cannot do with our current set-up.

[chef]

Makes no sense to me Redders being in the side, but Bevo seems to know what he's doing.

[Ozza]

I'm really surprised (and disappointed) that Boyd hasn't come into the side this week.

[Rocket Science]

Not on last week's VFL evidence.

Yep, his VFL form confounds me a bit.

The odd dropped sitter aside however, he was marking pretty handily before his demotion.

[Mantis]

I'm a bit miffed to this decision, but as always coach knows best.

TBB's write up paints a poor picture for Redpath's performances over the last 6-8 weeks.. Those 4 junk time goals against Port hopefully haven't had too much influence on our selections leading into the finals.

[BulldogBelle]

Big Jacks form line:

v North he had 5 disposals (1 kick) and 4 hitouts. Fail.
v WCE he had 10 disposals (2.1) and 8 hitouts. Pass perhaps, but he got killed on rebound/gave away a bad free kick.
v Dees he had 8 disposals (2.0) and 4 hitouts. In an almost 100 point win, I'd expect more.
v Port he had 13 disposals (4.0) and 3 hitouts. Pass. His best game, although it all came in the last quarter.
v Dons he had 13 disposals (0.2) and 3 hitouts. Fail in a huge win.
v Pies he had 10 disposals (1.2) and 3 hitouts. We need more.
v Cats he had 7 disposals (1.1) and 2 hitouts. Dominated by Taylor.

If he can kick 2 goals per game and be competitive, Big Jack is our 'Leigh Brown' in that aggressive, versatile role - and probably better suited to our side right now. But some of his games have been awful (v Cats/Norf) in that he's getting out-marked and offering nothing in the ruck. When that happens he becomes a massive liability.

Could Tom Campbell play the same role but better? He's arguably our best ruck and has both Redpath/Boyd covered for miles in that regard. In terms of forward craft, is Campbell any less mobile than Jack/Tom? He won't get out-marked like Jack, he's fitter than Boyd. Downside is he's less likely to bob up and kick 3-4 like the other two possibly could - but having said that, the other two have only done it once or twice. All three won't be applying much defensive pressure.

I think it could be time to go with the Campbell/Roughead combination, who offer about the same up forward and much more in the ruck. The advantage of having both Tom/Roughy is that we can split the time in ruck more efficiently and then sub the less effective ruck, something we simply cannot do with our current set-up.

Don't forget knee in the kidneys to Goldstein, very important stat omitted there.

[Ghost Dog]

I think it's really overstated in an attempt to get him over as some sort of throwback by commentators. The hit to Stringer was fantastic but it was merely one piece of play.

He has laid some huge hits. Didn't he knock flat the Carlton captain at one point? He shows some good aggression in packs and is able to pull the ball from just about anyone's arms. But you are right Happy, he is there to get grabs and kick goals. What's his set shot ratio like?

[Maddog37]

Won't find it easy with sauce Merrett on him this week. Hopefully he plays a blinder.

[ledge]

I think redpath is more demanding of the ball .. Tom lacks that I want it I will get it killer instinct that jack has.. We need to get Tom angry and wanting the ball.

[F'scary]

I can understand the disappointment being expressed here about the non-selection of Tom Boyd and, believe me, I share it - he has had some great moments in the AFL this season.

But I wonder if the club has decided to take the pressure off Tom Boyd this season. From what I read, his form in the VFL has been ok without being outstanding. How would the MC be thinking? "If we bring him in against Brisbane and he has a shocker (and he has had 1 or 2 this season), how easy will it be to retain him for the first final on form, what press would be generated if we drop him for the first final?"

As it stands now, he is 19 years old, has played 14 games for 16 goals in 2015. He hasn't played for weeks and we haven't needed him - the media and the general public seem satisfied that playing him in the VFL to give him development is reasonable.

Next season, he will have had another preseason, he will be 6 months older again. Come 2016, from what I have seen in 2015, he could really start to impact on results and grab the tall deep forward position ahead of all other contenders by Round 1.

[GVGjr]

Tom at least competes in the air and brings the ball to ground.
I would have played him this week.

Same here. Some of his marking around the midfield when he pushes up the ground is great.

[kruder]

Id play him.

Lets be honest though the majority of the Blog have have been confused with many selections over the year so far yet we have kept on winning. So who has got it right? Tom was average at best last week and a little tough love has worked well this year...

Out of interest how would a VFL final measure up intensity wise with a round 23 game in the AFL?

[Remi Moses]

It's an interesting one
I reckon Tom's hit the wall a bit( pretty common for young players, and in particular KPP)
The other bloke at Melbourne's also hit the wall.
Jack needs a big one this afternoon

[jazzadogs]

Same here. Some of his marking around the midfield when he pushes up the ground is great.

I can remember one big pack mark for the season, I think it was against St Kilda and he started the match on fire but missed a couple of goals and shot his confidence. There is also a lack of mention of his four goal game in comparison to Redpath, of which two came from free kicks, one Joe the goose and one mark.

I love Tom, I think he will be a fantastic player for us in the future, but don't think it is a clear cut decision either way at the moment.

For me, Redpath adds more to our structure (leading up, getting out of the 50 and leaving space for Stringer/Crameri etc to wreak havoc) than Boyd's ability to impact a contest. The reviews of Tom's VFL games give me no extra confidence.

[The Pie Man]

The raw numbers aren't great reading for Jack, but how does he compare to Tom for defensive pressure, ability to get to the right spots structurally/defensively without the ball? Can he get to more contests around the ground with superior fitness?

[BulldogBelle]

Can somebody line up Jack's stats with Tom's stats. As bad as Jack's are, Tom's may be worse. Tom playing in the VFL.

[SlimPickens]

Tom didn't play today. Hurt himself at training during the week.

[azabob]

Thanks Slim. I assume we wont be seeing him in week 1.

[bornadog]

Tom didn't play today. Hurt himself at training during the week.

How bad is the injury?

[jeemak]

I think this is a massive stuff up by the coaching panel.

Letting a player train at this point of the season is just taking the piss.

[ReLoad]

I think this is a massive stuff up by the coaching panel.

Letting a player train at this point of the season is just taking the piss.

This is some kind of joke right?

[SlimPickens]

How bad is the injury?

Mild, should only be out for a week.

[Doc26]

How bad is the injury?


Mild, should only be out for a week.

Not that it says a lot but he was walking around freely yesterday at Box Hill.

[BulldogBelle]

Supposed to have been a groin injury.

[jeemak]

This is some kind of joke right?

Of course.