Minsons future

[hujsh]

Will's an interesting character. He speaks well and has interests outside football to keep him out of mischief. A good ambassador to the doggies. On the field he should be the perfect fit for us. He is tall and muscular and a bit angry. Yet he has not been able to nail a permanent spot yet (this has not been helped by injuries). Before the trade period everyone (including Eade) said we need a strong ruckman. Was i the only one who thought Minson was that?

Now he is talked of as a forward. I have not really seen anything that has said he is a full forward. A pinch hitter, OK, but not as his main position. Although i have seen him kick some 50m+ set shot goals.

Time is still on his side as he is still 22 and taller players need more time normally to establish themselves(remember that D.Swan a mid to small size player was 23-24 when he mabe himself a spot in the Magpies lineup)

Any thoughts on what the future holds for Minno?

[LostDoggy]

i don't think he will succeed in the forward line but think he will one day be able to hold down the number 1 ruck spot, preferably when hudson finishes off.

[Scorlibo]

Will probably spend a bit more time in the forward line this year with the arrival of Hudson, so we will see what his forward capabilities are then I suppose. Would like to see him come back to playing with some more technique and discipline to his rucking. Unless Street really steps up, and unless Skipper continues to improve his work around the ground, Minson will be the #2 ruckman.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I love the crazy bastard and see him as No 1 ruckman in the future.

[Dry Rot]

Will's an interesting character. He speaks well and has interests outside football to keep him out of mischief. A good ambassador to the doggies. On the field he should be the perfect fit for us. He is tall and muscular and a bit angry. Yet he has not been able to nail a permanent spot yet (this has not been helped by injuries). Before the trade period everyone (including Eade) said we need a strong ruckman. Was i the only one who thought Minson was that?

Now he is talked of as a forward. I have not really seen anything that has said he is a full forward. A pinch hitter, OK, but not as his main position. Although i have seen him kick some 50m+ set shot goals.

Time is still on his side as he is still 22 and taller players need more time normally to establish themselves(remember that D.Swan a mid to small size player was 23-24 when he mabe himself a spot in the Magpies lineup)

Any thoughts on what the future holds for Minno?

Good thread - his future is rarely questioned.

Question for the more knowledgable here - We all know that ruckmen take time to develop but how does Minson compare at his age with some of the good/great contemporary ruckmen around?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Good thread - his future is rarely questioned.

Question for the more knowledgable here - We all know that ruckmen take time to develop but how does Minson compare at his age with some of the good/great contemporary ruckmen around?


Cox was about 23-24 when he started to hit his straps.

[Mantis]

Question for the more knowledgable here - We all know that ruckmen take time to develop but how does Minson compare at his age with some of the good/great contemporary ruckmen around?

Not sure if I'm knowledgable, but I'll give it a go. Prior to the 07 season I would have thought Will's development was going to plan. He had improved each year and looked ready to grab the title of our no.1 ruckman. The 07 season was a disaster for Will, he started the year in poor form, got dropped, found some form and then had a season ending injury just as he was about to be recalled to the senior team. The 08 year is crucial for his development, he needs to regain the form he showed late in 06. He needs to improve his around the ground work, his mobility and his discipline.

I still have high hopes for Will and think we will see his bext form some time after the 09 season so I am willing to be patient, but he needs to show improvement next year.

Back to the question I would have thought that most ruckman don't mature/ play there best footy until they are 26 or 27 so we still have time on our hands.

[hujsh]

i worry that if Hudson is no.1 and Minson doesn't have a great year and a new young ruckman pops up (rookie list mabye) then he is looking a bit old at 23-24 and may be forgotten

[always right]

I love big Will but I worry for him. Slightly short to be a dominant ruckman, needing to improve his ability to jump at centre bounces.

It would be interesting to see his training regime as he is one player who could sacrifice some bulk to improve his agility. I think his mobility is okay in general play but he has poor acceleration and you see this when his opponent goes forward and beats Will on a lead.

To me it's his acceleration that needs the most attention. I know he did athletics training last year but perhaps he needs to do more explosive work. Unless he improves this aspect he will struggle to play a role up forward. His overhead marking is not strong and he appears to struggle to get to a marking contest due to his poor acceleration.

At this stage I see him as a handy second ruck but he needs to have another string to his bow or he will find himself coming off the bench in each game. I'm hopeful rather than optimistic. I'd like to see Will terrorising the opposition and hurting them statistically as well.

[Go_Dogs]

He needs to add another trick, such as going forward. Hopefully as Rocket indicated he will get to spend some time up forward this year. I think he has a lot to offer, and I thought he was looking in fairly good shape last year, nice and lean, seemed a bit more mobile, but it didn't seem to translate on the field early in the year.

He's had some terrible luck with injuries though, breaking his leg, the back problems and having a plate in his thumb. A good run with injuries, and his fortunes could turn around pretty quickly.

[whythelongface]

Apart from playing 2nd fiddle to Hudson next season as an off the bench ruckman what else does he have to offer? Personally I can't see him going forward on a regular basis. Always Right summed up his weaknesses in this area. I just think we need to persist with him as a developing ruck over the next couple of years.

If Hudson is as good as we make out then he could be a good mentor in the development of Big Will. Not too sure on Barnes' credentials as a ruck coach, but hopefully having him on board will also pay some dividends in his development.

Anyway it should be a very interesting year for Will.

[LostDoggy]

I love big Will but I worry for him. Slightly short to be a dominant ruckman, needing to improve his ability to jump at centre bounces.

It would be interesting to see his training regime as he is one player who could sacrifice some bulk to improve his agility. I think his mobility is okay in general play but he has poor acceleration and you see this when his opponent goes forward and beats Will on a lead.

To me it's his acceleration that needs the most attention. I know he did athletics training last year but perhaps he needs to do more explosive work. Unless he improves this aspect he will struggle to play a role up forward. His overhead marking is not strong and he appears to struggle to get to a marking contest due to his poor acceleration.

At this stage I see him as a handy second ruck but he needs to have another string to his bow or he will find himself coming off the bench in each game. I'm hopeful rather than optimistic. I'd like to see Will terrorising the opposition and hurting them statistically as well.

Great post! Very true. Well done

[hujsh]

I love big Will but I worry for him. Slightly short to be a dominant ruckman, needing to improve his ability to jump at centre bounces.


Really? People say that yet he's two cm taller than Darcy according to footywire (Minson is 199). Any ruckman near enought to 2m tall is tall enough. Jeff White is 193cm. All-Austalian Michael Gardiner is 199cm (he's good enough just not fit or focused enough) so why does everyone say Minno is too short

[Mantis]

Really? People say that yet he's two cm taller than Darcy according to footywire (Minson is 199). Any ruckman near enought to 2m tall is tall enough. Jeff White is 193cm. All-Austalian Michael Gardiner is 199cm (he's good enough just not fit or focused enough) so why does everyone say Minno is too short

With the introduction of the centre circle we have seen a slight change in respects to the height required to play in the ruck. Jeff White has less effect in the centre now as his greatest asset, his leap has been denied by shortening his run up. This maybe because as he has got older his leap has dropped away, but he seems to struggle with this part of the game now.

Back to Will I think his centre work is ok, but could certainly improve. When he is down of confidence he seems to worry more about his opponent than the ball. Hopefully Barnes who was an excellent tap ruckman can work with Will to shift his focus in the all important centre square.

[Mofra]

I actually think Will could make it as a forward, simply because even our tall developing forwards are all lead up forwards who aren't pack-breaking monsters. He is close to unique for our list.

Adam Morgan played a month of football with about 3 possessions all up. He provided a target to crumb off, applied defensive pressure to the no 1 or 2 backman, and flew the flag is one of our smaller guys was copping physical pressure from the opposition. Minson can do this.

Hudson is not a goal kicker, so Minson could take the F50 throw in & allow Hudson to play a kick behind the play. I could hope Minson develops into something like a Mooney/Coleman type forward who provides a target when the leading forwards have been zoned out of a clear lead. It's not like Aker, Harbrow, Higgins, Lynch etc. aren't natural crumbers who can't hurt the oppositon given a little space. I saw Tiller crumb a pack beautifully late last year as well.

The real meddler is Skipper, who showed some signs he could take a contested grab, but will miss the early part of the season due to having a belated pre-season. Minson has height, but Skipper probably has more natural forward talent.

[Mantis]

Agree with your thoughts here Mofra. My only query is on Will's mobility. We tried to play Darcy in this role this past season and his lack of mobility denied him in being effective. He was ok when we kicked the ball on top of his head, but when he had to lead out or run 10 or 15m to create a contest he couldn't make up the ground.

We can't have Will playing as a one trick pony. ie bombing long as it is easy to defend, but if his mobility improves he is certainly an option as realistically we don't have too many other.

The pre-season will be very important in experimanting with this type of move and it will be interesting to see how this and the other plans the coaching staff will be working on unfold.

[LostDoggy]

luke darcy probably didnt succeed in the forward line because he had just come off back to back knee reconstructions.

[LostDoggy]

I actually think Will could make it as a forward, simply because even our tall developing forwards are all lead up forwards who aren't pack-breaking monsters. He is close to unique for our list.

Adam Morgan played a month of football with about 3 possessions all up. He provided a target to crumb off, applied defensive pressure to the no 1 or 2 backman, and flew the flag is one of our smaller guys was copping physical pressure from the opposition. Minson can do this.

Hudson is not a goal kicker, so Minson could take the F50 throw in & allow Hudson to play a kick behind the play. I could hope Minson develops into something like a Mooney/Coleman type forward who provides a target when the leading forwards have been zoned out of a clear lead. It's not like Aker, Harbrow, Higgins, Lynch etc. aren't natural crumbers who can't hurt the oppositon given a little space. I saw Tiller crumb a pack beautifully late last year as well.

The real meddler is Skipper, who showed some signs he could take a contested grab, but will miss the early part of the season due to having a belated pre-season. Minson has height, but Skipper probably has more natural forward talent.

I have my doubts about will being able to make it as a forward mainly because of his poor marking. If he could provide a contest like Morgan did and crash a few packs he has a chance but at the moment he just doesn't have the runs on the board.

[Bulldogs_6]

Ayce Cordy and Will Minson, I'd think we have an alright ruck division for the future ;)
Also, I don't see any problems with Will off-field as I have met him and he was pretty much the most talkative out of the bunch of players I met which was 20 odd, ofcourse not saying people think he has off-field problems. He is definitely an angry figure on the field which could be good for us :)
With the arrival of Hudson I think that this will give Will more time to develop as there is no pressure for him to develop to quickly. Same goes with Ayce Cordy I spose.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Not sure if I'm knowledgable, but I'll give it a go. Prior to the 07 season I would have thought Will's development was going to plan. He had improved each year and looked ready to grab the title of our no.1 ruckman. The 07 season was a disaster for Will, he started the year in poor form, got dropped, found some form and then had a season ending injury just as he was about to be recalled to the senior team. The 08 year is crucial for his development, he needs to regain the form he showed late in 06. He needs to improve his around the ground work, his mobility and his discipline.

I still have high hopes for Will and think we will see his bext form some time after the 09 season so I am willing to be patient, but he needs to show improvement next year.

Back to the question I would have thought that most ruckman don't mature/ play there best footy until they are 26 or 27 so we still have time on our hands.

This is pretty similar to my views mantis - in 07 he lost the plot even before injured, took his eye of the footy and focused too much on playing the man. And I really didn't see it coming after his fabulous final against Collingwood the year before.

[LostDoggy]

i don't think he will succeed in the forward line but think he will one day be able to hold down the number 1 ruck spot, preferably when hudson finishes off.

As far as I am concerned I would have to agree with this. Until Will can show he can take a mark and kick a goal I think he is just a ruckman. It doesn't mean that he cannot be an effective ruckman especially when teamed with the right partner but he hasn't mastered the craft yet and I think playing as a forward is beyond him.
Lets keep the instructions as a ruckman simple for him and until he gets that right I don't think trying to make him into a forward will give us much.
Let him learn what to do in the middle and how to block up the defense and he will be a more than handy player for us.

[hujsh]

Does anyone consider him a better tap ruckman that Street because i don't.

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone consider him a better tap ruckman that Street because i don't.

I'm don't mind either of them and really as a temdem they should be able to match it with other rucks but now that Hudson is ahead of both of them they really need to step up.
Street might be marginally ahead on Minson but I really hope it was just the injuries that they both carried in 2007 that contributed to the poor form.

They both need a good 2008

[Sockeye Salmon]

Does anyone consider him a better tap ruckman that Street because i don't.

Minson 100x > Street

[hujsh]

Minson 100x > Street

Not in the ruck contests which is still the main job for a ruckman although the extras are very important these days

[Raw Toast]

Not in the ruck contests which is still the main job for a ruckman although the extras are very important these days

Minson's ruck-work wasn't that impressive last year but neither was Street's. Minson at his best has been a much better tap ruck. Street has never shown the ability to put the ball where it is needed, while Minson has helped win a number of games by putting it down players throats. Examples include his tap-work to Cooney against Brisbane, 4th quarter in 2006, and to Giansiracusa and others in the second half of Grant's 300th v Adelaide (Darcy got a lot of kudos for kicking 6 in the second half, but a fair bit of this was the delivery he received from a mid-field receiving the ball on a platter).

[Dry Rot]

Street has never shown the ability to put the ball where it is needed

That's always puzzled me - wonder why?

[hujsh]

Minson's ruck-work wasn't that impressive last year but neither was Street's. Minson at his best has been a much better tap ruck. Street has never shown the ability to put the ball where it is needed, while Minson has helped win a number of games by putting it down players throats. Examples include his tap-work to Cooney against Brisbane, 4th quarter in 2006, and to Giansiracusa and others in the second half of Grant's 300th v Adelaide (Darcy got a lot of kudos for kicking 6 in the second half, but a fair bit of this was the delivery he received from a mid-field receiving the ball on a platter).

Very good examples of Minson that i had forgotten about. Street however had the highest precentage of his hitouts go to advantage in the comp. I would rather see Minson in the team but i don't think Street is a bad ruckman (equal tallest ever with Sandilands)

[hujsh]

Minson 100x > Street


Not in the ruck contests which is still the main job for a ruckman although the extras are very important these days

How wrong i was.


Minson is excellent ATM in the ruck and even around the ground

[LostDoggy]

Any chance to change this thread to be about Hudson?
I thought he was very poor on Sunday.

[bornadog]

Any chance to change this thread to be about Hudson?
I thought he was very poor on Sunday.

You could always start up your own thread;)

[hujsh]

^^^^^ will that do?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think Will is a fair way ahead of Hudson at the moment.

Needs to keep it up.

[mighty_west]

I think Will is a fair way ahead of Hudson at the moment.

Needs to keep it up.

I'm pretty confident he will, as we know, alot of ruckmen don't really mature until their mid to late 20's, then you get a Dean Cox that just blows that theory out of the water.

But Will always seemed the type that would take some time, i'm pretty sure he was more a speculative pick even though he was taken quite early in the draft.

Without being hard on Hudson, but you want Minson to either catch up or take over by this stage, Huddo may have 1 or 2 years left in him depending on his body & how fast Roughead develops, although i'm also fairly confident Roughead won't take that long.

You would like to think all things being equal, that Huddo will retire, Minson would have established himself as the numero uno & Roughead will be right to go with Cordy also giving them a chop out at times.

[LostDoggy]

I've always liked Big Will! Previous years have seen him quite inconsistent, but he is cementing himself as a ruck/tall forward for the Bulldogs this season.