Operation get Stefan Martin.

[chef]

We are desperate for a gun ruck and this guy would fit us and our style perfectly.

I'll happily give up our first rounder to make it happen, though I'm sure the club would be a bit more sensible.

Maybe Grant could be involved in the trade with Brisbane making a play for him a while back.

[G-Mo77]

Alarm bells ring for giving up our first round pick for someone who is 29 years old. I know we have to give something to get him but would not include that pick. That's just me.

[chef]

What did we give up for Huddo?

[G-Mo77]

What did we give up for Huddo?

Not much from memory. Late 2nd round I think but it was a different scenario.

[Remi Moses]

They won't give a first rounder for a 29 year old
A second rounder most likely

[bornadog]

Maybe Grant could be involved in the trade with Brisbane making a play for him a while back.

I know you are not a fan of Grant, but I think we should be hanging on to players in the 25 to 28 year bracket. We have a big gap in this area because we keep getting rid of these guys. You need foot soldiers and players with some experience.

[FrediKanoute]

I know you are not a fan of Grant, but I think we should be hanging on to players in the 25 to 28 year bracket. We have a big gap in this area because we keep getting rid of these guys. You need foot soldiers and players with some experience.

Agree. Far from our worst this year and in all honesty a key link up player. If we can improve on him maybe, buthard to see who from the VFL side would come in and shift him.

[LostDoggy]

Brisbane are pretty desperate for key forwards, would Martin for Redpath be about doable.

Martin is a better player, but Redpath has a lot more years left.

Maybe a little trade of draft picks as well.

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 11 for Martin... I think they win that trade somehow.

[GVGjr]

Brisbane are pretty desperate for key forwards, would Martin for Redpath be about doable.

Martin is a better player, but Redpath has a lot more years left.

Maybe a little trade of draft picks as well.

They can't allow Martin to go given they are likely to lose Leuy as well and because Martin has a contract they would expect someone to pay overs before they would consider it.
By the way, I'm not sure they are desperate for marginal key forwards. They have McGuane, Freeman and McStay plays there as well.
Like us, they need good players with a bit of experience. I don't think Redders would be on their radar

[LostDoggy]

They can't allow Martin to go given they are likely to lose Leuy as well and because Martin has a contract they would expect someone to pay overs before they would consider it.
By the way, I'm not sure they are desperate for marginal key forwards. They have McGuane, Freeman and McStay plays there as well.
Like us, they need good players with a bit of experience. I don't think Redders would be on their radar

Leppitsch is on the record as saying Lions main requirement is a key forward, has said it a number of times. If Leuenberger
is the one more likely to leave, maybe he's the one we should be trading for, either would be a good fit for us.

[chef]

Yeah, they are not going to trade him unless they are going to win the trade.

Maybe our first pick for him and their second or maybe a second and a Grant/Talia/Hrovat type.

We get a dominant ruck and we are well on our way to pressing for top 4 next season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah, they are not going to trade him unless they are going to win the trade.

Maybe our first pick for him and their second or maybe a second and a Grant/Talia/Hrovat type.

We get a dominant ruck and we are well on our way to pressing for top 4 next season.

Martin would be a great pick up, but a first round pick for a 29 year old ruck? Pass. I'd rather Kreuzer for nothing.

We obviously need to address the ruck issue, but I disagree it's standing between us and the top four - we have other pressing issues with the list. The only game that I can think of where we were really exposed was v Nic Nat. Other games, which include the 2 v Adelaide and 1 v Norf we may have "lost" the ruck position but it was far from the deciding factor.

Still agree we need a good ruck, but I wouldn't be selling the farm for it.

[GVGjr]

Leppitsch is on the record as saying Lions main requirement is a key forward, has said it a number of times. If Leuenberger is the one more likely to leave, maybe he's the one we should be trading for, either would be a good fit for us.

The yet word in my first explanation was marginal. Redders might be big but he isn't a proven key forward yet.

Leuy has struggled and given the Lions get compensated for him they probably wouldn't be overly upset to see him go.
It means that they must keep Martin though and it opens up a question of if Leuy is much better than what we have?

[GVGjr]

Yeah, they are not going to trade him unless they are going to win the trade.

Maybe our first pick for him and their second or maybe a second and a Grant/Talia/Hrovat type.

We get a dominant ruck and we are well on our way to pressing for top 4 next season.

Yep, they would have to find a team willing to pay overs and ideally they would also need a decent player. They badly need experienced players.

[LostDoggy]

The yet word in my first explanation was marginal. Redders might be big but he isn't a proven key forward yet.

Leuy has struggled and given the Lions get compensated for him they probably wouldn't be overly upset to see him go.
It means that they must keep Martin though and it opens up a question of if Leuy is much better than what we have?

Fair enough, but there aren't a lot of proper key forwards on the market. I am not saying they will straight swap but I do think he would hold some value for them and may be a significant part of a deal.

[GVGjr]

Fair enough, but there aren't a lot of proper key forwards on the market. I am not saying they will straight swap but I do think he would hold some value for them and may be a significant part of a deal.

They can't fix their problems in one season so the worst thing they could do is copy Carltons formula from last season and top up with depth players over quality ones.

They also already have McGuane and Paine as forwards so I'm not sure adding another questionable player talent wise helps them in anyway. They need some decent players so we would need to give them something better than Redpath.

They have asked for a priority pick and lets assume they get that, they will also be compensated for Leuy and will get something decent for Aish. They need to roll all that up into a quality player or two even allowing for some academy players they need to accommodate.

Maybe Martin can get them to trade him but we would need to pay overs to get him.

[Bulldog4life]

Brisbane are pretty desperate for key forwards, would Martin for Redpath be about doable.

Martin is a better player, but Redpath has a lot more years left.

Maybe a little trade of draft picks as well.

I wouldnt think the Club would trade Redders after just giving him a one year contract extension

[Sedat]

What did we give up for Huddo?
Ended up being pick 30, with a swap of pick 38 (to Adelaide) and 43 (to us, which ended up being Easton Wood).

[Remi Moses]

I'm adamantly opposed to picking up 29 year olds, but rucks are an exception to the rule.
They develop( as a rule) at a later age

[chef]

Ended up being pick 30, with a swap of pick 38 (to Adelaide) and 43 (to us, which ended up being Easton Wood).

He was 29 when he played his first game for us too.

[Axe Man]

Ruckman Martin likely to remain with Lions (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-13/ruckman-martin-likely-to-remain-with-lions)

STEFAN Martin is still weighing up his future, but says he'll likely stay with the Brisbane Lions in 2016.

Martin is contracted for next year, but is considering a return to Melbourne for personal reasons.

The imposing ruckman had a stellar season and was one of four players – alongside Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko and Mitch Robinson – to share the Merrett-Murray Medal as the Lions' best and fairest on Saturday night.

Zorko, another player suggested to be looking elsewhere, confirmed he would be at the Gabba next year.

But for Martin, the decision is a little tougher, saying it is not as clear-cut as simply staying at a club he loves.

"I've got some life circumstances going on and that's the only reason I'd want to leave the club," Martin said.

"(It's) unrelated to the club, nothing they've done, but sometimes life gets in the way.

"At this stage it's looking like I'll be at the Lions, not 100 per cent, but that's where it's at, at the moment."

It's believed the club is trying to extend the 28-year-old's tenure with a longer-term deal.

"I do love the club, but it's just weighing up life's priorities," Martin said.

"There's a huge part of me that would just love to be at this club next year."

[LostDoggy]

I wouldnt think the Club would trade Redders after just giving him a one year contract extension

A lot of contracted players get traded every year. I don't think the club want to git rid of Jack, but I think he would be expendable under the right circumstances.

[bornadog]

Richmond is interested in Carlton free agent Matthew Kreuzer, while the Bulldogs are circling Brisbane Lion Stefan Martin.
Kreuzer is out of contract, while Martin has one year remaining on his deal, meaning he would only move if the Lions can secure a satisfactory trade.
The Lions have told Martin he is going nowhere.
- Herald Sun

[GVGjr]

Richmond is interested in Carlton free agent Matthew Kreuzer, while the Bulldogs are circling Brisbane Lion Stefan Martin.
Kreuzer is out of contract, while Martin has one year remaining on his deal, meaning he would only move if the Lions can secure a satisfactory trade.
The Lions have told Martin he is going nowhere.
- Herald Sun

So we want him and would need to pay overs to get him is how I'm reading that.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So we want him and would need to pay overs to get him is how I'm reading that.

Given we are 2-3 years from our peak, I would not be happy over paying for Martin.

Good player but not worth reaching for, and given he's contracted, that's what we'd have to do.

[Sedat]

Given we are 2-3 years from our peak, I would not be happy over paying for Martin.

Good player but not worth reaching for, and given he's contracted, that's what we'd have to do.
Yep, he cost Brisbane pick 51 or something 2 years ago and he's going to cost a hell of a lot more now as a 29yo. I'd much rather get the next Stefan Martin that is wallowing away at another club in his mid 20's.

[GVGjr]

Given we are 2-3 years from our peak, I would not be happy over paying for Martin.

Good player but not worth reaching for, and given he's contracted, that's what we'd have to do.

If we are interested as is being reported what would be a reasonable offer for him?
Brisbane could be interested in a player struggling to get a lot of games with us

[stefoid]

Yep, he cost Brisbane pick 51 or something 2 years ago and he's going to cost a hell of a lot more now as a 29yo. I'd much rather get the next Stefan Martin that is wallowing away at another club in his mid 20's.

Like Roughie?

The big footy rumour is Leunberger. Another injury basket case who cant put in a full preseason. I cant fathom it, if true.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we should go all in or not at all. They will force us to overpay, so perhaps overpay with pick 12 or 13 or whatever we get. But Daniel Rich, James Aish (etc) are packaged with something else. Minson would be easily first ruck with Luey and Martin gone. Would be a good character for them too.

Martin & Aish/Rich for 13 and Minson. Gives Brisbane picks 3, 4 (Luey compo), 13 and 20 and Minson. That's a pretty ok position to launch a climb up the ladder, assuming they don't get a priority pick on top. Gives us a dominant ruck and another good player with some games and development under their belt. Probably not enough....

.... Or if this works. Talia to Sydney for their 16 and giving them 30. If we can screw them into paying overs to get a developed tall defender...

So we have 13 and 17 (by compo end). We give Brisbane Minson and 13 and 17 for 22, Martin and Rich/Aish. Sellable to Brisbane that guys who want out go, they get picks 3, 4, 13, 17, Minson anything else they can trade for...

That's trade week done for me: incoming pick 22, Martin, Aish/Rich (13, Minson & Talia) with picks 48 and 66.

[Doc26]

I think we should go all in or not at all. They will force us to overpay, so perhaps overpay with pick 12 or 13 or whatever we get. But Daniel Rich, James Aish (etc) are packaged with something else. Minson would be easily first ruck with Luey and Martin gone. Would be a good character for them too.

Martin & Aish/Rich for 13 and Minson. Gives Brisbane picks 3, 4 (Luey compo), 13 and 20 and Minson. That's a pretty ok position to launch a climb up the ladder, assuming they don't get a priority pick on top. Gives us a dominant ruck and another good player with some games and development under their belt. Probably not enough....

.... Or if this works. Talia to Sydney for their 16 and giving them 30. If we can screw them into paying overs to get a developed tall defender...

So we have 13 and 17 (by compo end). We give Brisbane Minson and 13 and 17 for 22, Martin and Rich/Aish. Sellable to Brisbane that guys who want out go, they get picks 3, 4, 13, 17, Minson anything else they can trade for...

That's trade week done for me: incoming pick 22, Martin, Aish/Rich (13, Minson & Talia) with picks 48 and 66.

I'd be surprised if Brisbane accepted an offer for Aish alone over pick 15. I couldn't then see the equivalent of a straight swap of Will for Stefan working for them. Maybe something can be worked out with the addition of a future pick.

[GVGjr]

I'd be surprised if Brisbane accepted an offer for Aish alone over pick 15. I couldn't then see the equivalent of a straight swap of Will for Stefan working for them. Maybe something can be worked out with the addition of a future pick.

Brisbane have two good academy players they need to acquire so they will need early picks. Sydney have one academy player and potentially a father son to pick so I can't see them parting with their first rounder as BT suggested.

For Martin they would ideally want a player but they might take a draft pick.

[soupman]

I would be way to happy with those trades BT for them to be realistic. Brisbane would want a first round pick for Aish or Rich alone, and Minson is worth much less than Martin. Also I would be very surprised if we got a pick before 25 for Talia, and very happy if it was earlier than 30.

I like Martin, he is a type that Beveridge would love, but at 29 there has to be some questions over whether we target someone younger.

For mine other than the obvious ones in Kreuzer and Leuenberger (who are both very injury prone) I think it could be worth enquiring about the following:

-Callum Sinclair (http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/callum-sinclair), my personal favourite. Has shown at West Coast this year that he can be effective in the ruck, is mobile and can take a mark around the ground. He also kicked 13 goals this year so can hurt on the scoreboard. I think he is the athletic marking type we should be going for, and at 25 should be coming into his prime. He won't be cheap, but we have the carrot of being 1st ruck instead of spending his career behind NicNat. I think originally a Melbourne boy too, although may feel some allegiance to the club that gave him a chance as a mature ager.

-Tom Nicholls (http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/tom-nicholls), physical and athletic and able to take a mark, wouldn't be cheap as he is Gold Coasts first ruck I believe. Only about 22 so could still grow with the group.

-Zac Clarke (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/zachary-clarke), Feels like he has been around forever, but is only 25 still. Like Sinclair is athletic and can play forward. Still yet to have much exposed form as a first ruck but his versatilty and ability to get around the ground would really help us.

All the above wouldn't be cheap, but have all shown they can perform at AFL level and suit the style I believe Beveridge likes.


Other players that I have not seen much of but could be worth consideration:
-Daniel Gorringe (http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/daniel-gorringe), atm stuck behind Smith and Nicholls at GC but is athletic, was a high draft pick (10) and I believe wants out, as he did last year.
-Michael Apeness (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/michael-apeness), ruck/key forward who has a fairly high draft pick. Only played a couple of games last year.
-Jack Hannath (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/jack-hannath), athletic and has played forward. Like the other Freo guys might be hard to steal as they look to replace Sandilands.
-Andrew Phillips (http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/player-profile/andrew-phillips), Played 14 games so far and I believe has been talked about as tradeable.
-Scott Lycett (http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/scott-lycett), has shown he can kick multiple goals and is alright atheltically. Signed up for a while but we could pry him out now that he is clearly behind Nicnat and Sinclair.

I also would like to see us look at rookie listing an international recruit, which I believe are exempt from the number restrictions of normal rookies. If it is a free hit, we may as well get one in.

BTW, cannot believe Trent West is still on a list.

[craigsahibee]

I would be way to happy with those trades BT for them to be realistic. Brisbane would want a first round pick for Aish or Rich alone, and Minson is worth much less than Martin. Also I would be very surprised if we got a pick before 25 for Talia, and very happy if it was earlier than 30.

I like Martin, he is a type that Beveridge would love, but at 29 there has to be some questions over whether we target someone younger.

For mine other than the obvious ones in Kreuzer and Leuenberger (who are both very injury prone) I think it could be worth enquiring about the following:

-Callum Sinclair (http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/callum-sinclair), my personal favourite. Has shown at West Coast this year that he can be effective in the ruck, is mobile and can take a mark around the ground. He also kicked 13 goals this year so can hurt on the scoreboard. I think he is the athletic marking type we should be going for, and at 25 should be coming into his prime. He won't be cheap, but we have the carrot of being 1st ruck instead of spending his career behind NicNat. I think originally a Melbourne boy too, although may feel some allegiance to the club that gave him a chance as a mature ager.

-Tom Nicholls (http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/tom-nicholls), physical and athletic and able to take a mark, wouldn't be cheap as he is Gold Coasts first ruck I believe. Only about 22 so could still grow with the group.

-Zac Clarke (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/zachary-clarke), Feels like he has been around forever, but is only 25 still. Like Sinclair is athletic and can play forward. Still yet to have much exposed form as a first ruck but his versatilty and ability to get around the ground would really help us.

All the above wouldn't be cheap, but have all shown they can perform at AFL level and suit the style I believe Beveridge likes.


Other players that I have not seen much of but could be worth consideration:
-Daniel Gorringe (http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/daniel-gorringe), atm stuck behind Smith and Nicholls at GC but is athletic, was a high draft pick (10) and I believe wants out, as he did last year.
-Michael Apeness (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/michael-apeness), ruck/key forward who has a fairly high draft pick. Only played a couple of games last year.
-Jack Hannath (http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/jack-hannath), athletic and has played forward. Like the other Freo guys might be hard to steal as they look to replace Sandilands.
-Andrew Phillips (http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/player-profile/andrew-phillips), Played 14 games so far and I believe has been talked about as tradeable.
-Scott Lycett (http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/scott-lycett), has shown he can kick multiple goals and is alright atheltically. Signed up for a while but we could pry him out now that he is clearly behind Nicnat and Sinclair.

I also would like to see us look at rookie listing an international recruit, which I believe are exempt from the number restrictions of normal rookies. If it is a free hit, we may as well get one in.

BTW, cannot believe Trent West is still on a list.

Lycett is the one that might attract a bit of interest. As stated, he is now third on the list at West Coast behind NicNat and Sinclair. I believe we should be targeting someone like him. Who or what do we give up? 2nd & 4th Round pick for Lycett and their 3rd Round Pick. I'd be hopless at this trade thing, too attached to our players to want to give any of them up (unless Christian Howard is sought after)

[bulldogtragic]

I might break it down:

Aish/Rich for mid/late first rounder, got somehow upgrading our second pick and Talia.
Martin for Minson in addition to upgrading their pick 22 to pick 13. Nine spots into the mid first round is a very big jump for getting an A grader.

But not breaking any of this down, it's all or nothing. They get a new number one ruckman and get TWO first round selections (2 A graders if they draft right) for two guys who could leave for a lot less next year. Not tempting for either club? We get good, but lose two players and two first rounders. They get picks 3, 4, 13 & 16.

[Sedat]

Like Roughie?

The big footy rumour is Leunberger. Another injury basket case who cant put in a full preseason. I cant fathom it, if true.
Roughie and Martin are really apples and oranges. Martin is cut from the same cloth as a Ryder type - extremely mobile and can cause damage around other parts of the ground. Roughie is more of a traditional first ruck in the Goldy/NicNat mould (though obviously not as good). I see Kreuzer as a younger and more talented version of Martin, and Leuey as a talented but injury-prone version of Goldy/NicNat.

I don't know what Roughie's best role is at our club, especially not knowing what we'll do with the list in the off-season.

[bornadog]

Roughie and Martin are really apples and oranges. Martin is cut from the same cloth as a Ryder type - extremely mobile and can cause damage around other parts of the ground. Roughie is more of a traditional first ruck in the Goldy/NicNat mould (though obviously not as good). I see Kreuzer as a younger and more talented version of Martin, and Leuey as a talented but injury-prone version of Goldy/NicNat.

I don't know what Roughie's best role is at our club, especially not knowing what we'll do with the list in the off-season.

Rumour is we have offerred Leuenberger 4 years

[LostDoggy]

Rumour is we have offerred Leuenberger 4 years

I've heard 3 years.

[azabob]

Rumour is we have offerred Leuenberger 4 years


I've heard 3 years.

I heard 3.5 years! :D

[Templeton31]

How mobile is Leunberger? Or is he just a younger version of Big Will? Clearly Bevo has a problem with Big Will's (in)ability to get round the ground so Leunberger or whichever ruck we target would need to be better at that. Clearly Martin is good at that but harder to get due to his contract and seems like he doesn't really want to leave Lions. Kreuzer to me fits Bevo's requirements perfectly but it sounds like his injury concerns are too great.

[Greystache]

I heard 3.5 years! :D

I've heard 5 years in exchange for 3 years, with a swap of fourth years to sweeten the deal :D

[Sedat]

How mobile is Leunberger? Or is he just a younger version of Big Will?
Leuey is very mobile for his size and has a lot of tricks for a player his size, but his injury history has really hurt his progress. Like Kreuz, if Leuey gets the all-clear from a medial perspective, he is a massive upgrade on our current ruck stocks. At 100% fitness, he can rival the Goldy's and NicNat's.

I see Kreuz as being more like-for-like with Will (except much better up forward) whereas Leuey is the elite tap ruckman who covers the ground all day (think your Goldy or Dean Cox type).

[Happy Days]

I like Leuenberger; his games this year when Martin got suspended were outstanding in all honesty (handled Sandilands in round 14 to the tune of 51 hitouts and 2 snags; hmmm not bad). And when he plays a full season, his results are pretty impressive. He can definitely play.

One possible mitigation is that he too cannot play forward, which is exacerbated by his proneness to injury. However, the guys who show a lot in a minimised role are the exact sort of guys you should look at trading in and see if they can do the same with greater opportunity. I think it's worth the risk.

[stefoid]

Roughie and Martin are really apples and oranges. Martin is cut from the same cloth as a Ryder type - extremely mobile and can cause damage around other parts of the ground. Roughie is more of a traditional first ruck in the Goldy/NicNat mould (though obviously not as good). I see Kreuzer as a younger and more talented version of Martin, and Leuey as a talented but injury-prone version of Goldy/NicNat.

I don't know what Roughie's best role is at our club, especially not knowing what we'll do with the list in the off-season.


I cant see any lumbering ruck type being able to hold down a fullback position the way Roughie did. You need a certain amount of mobility to defend a key forward.

For the life of me I dont understand why we dont prime Roughead all preseason to be our #1 ruck. He was noted for his intelligent tapwork as a junior, and we have seen first hand he has decent disposal for a big man - hes not one of those mark, stop and handball rucks.

Am I crazy?

[stefoid]

How mobile is Leunberger? Or is he just a younger version of Big Will? Clearly Bevo has a problem with Big Will's (in)ability to get round the ground so Leunberger or whichever ruck we target would need to be better at that. Clearly Martin is good at that but harder to get due to his contract and seems like he doesn't really want to leave Lions. Kreuzer to me fits Bevo's requirements perfectly but it sounds like his injury concerns are too great.

Sedats comparison to goldstien seems like a good one, but the guy cant train. Hes like the ruck version of Cooney doing a half arsed preseason and struggling during the year because his knees are shot.

[LostDoggy]

I cant see any lumbering ruck type being able to hold down a fullback position the way Roughie did. You need a certain amount of mobility to defend a key forward.

For the life of me I dont understand why we dont prime Roughead all preseason to be our #1 ruck. He was noted for his intelligent tapwork as a junior, and we have seen first hand he has decent disposal for a big man - hes not one of those mark, stop and handball rucks.

Am I crazy?

The problem with Roughy is that his body doesn't look like it'll cope with 1st Ruck crash and bash consistently. 2 full games as 1st Ruck late in season, and shoulders, fingers and legs all hurt.

[Sedat]

The problem with Roughy is that his body doesn't look like it'll cope with 1st Ruck crash and bash consistently. 2 full games as 1st Ruck late in season, and shoulders, fingers and legs all hurt.
Which might be the same issue with Leuey, according to Stefoid

[Bulldog4life]

Leuey is very mobile for his size and has a lot of tricks for a player his size, but his injury history has really hurt his progress. Like Kreuz, if Leuey gets the all-clear from a medial perspective, he is a massive upgrade on our current ruck stocks. At 100% fitness, he can rival the Goldy's and NicNat's.

I see Kreuz as being more like-for-like with Will (except much better up forward) whereas Leuey is the elite tap ruckman who covers the ground all day (think your Goldy or Dean Cox type).

What I heard today on KB's show was the xray on Kreuz's foot with the plate in it was what let him down with Collingwood. Apparently it hasn't gelled or joined properly like it should have.

[1eyedog]

Which might be the same issue with Leuey, according to Stefoid

Leuenberger is held together by gaffer tape and in this he is no better or worse than Roughie in the number 1 ruck role. If we want to go down the path of bringing him in I'm all for it becuase if by some miracle his body does hold up he can at least ruck and ruck well.

[LostDoggy]

Which might be the same issue with Leuey, according to Stefoid

Fair point. At least Leuey has put together whole seasons as 1st Ruck in the past, not sure Roughy will ever manage that. No doubt we would want our medicos to do a thorough check on Leuey though.

[Sedat]

What I heard today on KB's show was the xray on Kreuz's foot with the plate in it was what let him down with Collingwood. Apparently it hasn't gelled or joined properly like it should have.
Yep, all bets on Kreuz (or Leuey for that matter) are off if they fail our medical assessment.

[bulldogtragic]

Tommy Williams is no worse an option to come back and play ruck if those fail the medical tests. And Tommy has had a year to rest up.

#BringBackTom

[stefoid]

Which might be the same issue with Leuey, according to Stefoid

Im going on this article:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-12-14/leuenbergers-new-approach

"At his best, Leuenberger is arguably one of the finest ruckmen in the league, but has played just 94 games in his eight years.

Something has to give, and that something is the pre-season.

"Whenever I had a full pre-season, I tend to break down by the first four rounds," Leuenberger told AFL.com.au.

"It's not clear-cut, but there's a trend there.

"Whenever I have completed full pre-seasons, I tend to fall down in the first four to five rounds, so it's just being smart and managing it, which we're doing."'

[stefoid]

The problem with Roughy is that his body doesn't look like it'll cope with 1st Ruck crash and bash consistently. 2 full games as 1st Ruck late in season, and shoulders, fingers and legs all hurt.

Shoot me down if Im wrong, but Ill assume coping with collisions is part of ruck skillset. He has played bugger all ruck in the last 3 years, so hes going to be rusty. Also, body training for ruck would be different - Ill assume you want to be heavier and stronger than for playing in a key defence post where speed off the mark and agility would be more of a priority.

I guess with Roughead and Campbell already on the list, I dont see the need to waste all our magic beans on another ruck, particualrly an injury prone one like berger. IF we wernt idiots, Ben Brown would already be on the list for peanuts and job done.

If we want to go risky, lets spend our beans on Brennel instead.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Leuy doesn't really excite me. Has he ever strung together a full season of good footy? Even half a season? It seems he has patches of good form (4-5 weeks) and then either gets injured or fades.

At his best he'd be a great pick up, but he hasn't been able to deliver that consistently for a host of reasons.

If Bevo and co. want him and our medical team gives the all clear, I'll be happy to have him given he comes for free but I won't hold my breath re: his durability.

[LostDoggy]

Leuy doesn't really excite me. Has he ever strung together a full season of good footy? Even half a season? It seems he has patches of good form (4-5 weeks) and then either gets injured or fades.

At his best he'd be a great pick up, but he hasn't been able to deliver that consistently for a host of reasons.

If Bevo and co. want him and our medical team gives the all clear, I'll be happy to have him given he comes for free but I won't hold my breath re: his durability.

He did play 64 of a possible 66 games in 2010, 11 & 13 so he can get through full seasons when he is right. He is certainly a risk but, if right, would add a fair bit to us and is cheap (free as a trade). Medical clearance a big if though.

[azabob]

Funny what you find when searching for something else.

Firstly well done Chef, took us five years and a cheap draft pick, but we got our man.

[Bulldog4life]

Funny what you find when searching for something else.

Firstly well done Chef, took us five years and a cheap draft pick, but we got our man.

The real question is what were you looking for and did you find it aza?

[azabob]

The real question is what were you looking for and did you find it aza?

Not really. I was trying to find a thread on rule changes - I did bump one, but not the one I was looking for.

[jeemak]

Not really. I was trying to find a thread on rule changes - I did bump one, but not the one I was looking for.

I think BAD has had some passing interest in the AFL changing the rules over the years, perhaps he can help.

[Twodogs]

I think BAD has had some passing interest in the AFL changing the rules over the years, perhaps he can help.

Has he? He should have mentioned it at some stage.

[jeemak]

Has he? He should have mentioned it at some stage.

Yeah, we're working on his shyness.

[Twodogs]

Yeah, we're working on his shyness.

Try getting him to speak up for himself.

[jeemak]

Try getting him to speak up for himself.

That's a fair way down the track. We're just working on his tendency to sit on the fence first, you know, one step at a time.

[Twodogs]

That's a fair way down the track. We're just working on his tendency to sit on the fence first, you know, one step at a time.

Baby steps.

[chef]

Yeah i did a BT. Not quite as instant as his Boyd thread but hopefully it has the same happy ending.

[Twodogs]

Exactly how much did Chef know and when did he know it?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/20/new-recruit-reveals-dogs-trade-pursuit-lasted-several-years/


Sam Power must have found a note from JMac in a desk drawer saying "get Stef Martin!"

[chef]

Hopefully come the end of the season it'll be worth the wait.

[bulldogtragic]

I’m getting a sense that this is the end of the road. Pulled up sore from very limited minutes on the weekend. More training sessions can’t substitute for playing games and miraculously pulling up really well.

By the end of the EF, Stef will have played a total of just 609 minutes of the possible 2,800+ minutes across our 23 games this season. Or having played only about 21.75% of our season.

[DOG GOD]

I’m getting a sense that this is the end of the road. More training session can’t substitute for playing games.

By the end of the EF, Stef will have played a total of just 609 minutes of the possible 2,800+ minutes across our 23 games this season. Or having played only about 21.75% of our season.

He’s done.

[bulldogtragic]

He’s done.

Time to retire gracefully. Stop the conversation around him playing or not. It’s easier to sell to the hardcore footyheads like us about Young when we out for the year Bruce & Stef.

Maybe this year, recruit a younger healthier ruckman.

[comrade]

Looked like a masterstroke 6 weeks in when we were playing some of our best footy ever under Bevo.

Is it too much to suggest that Stef going down has cost us a flag?

[Rocco Jones]

Looked like a masterstroke 6 weeks in when we were playing some of our best footy ever under Bevo.

Is it too much to suggest that Stef going down has cost us a flag?

A death by a few cuts if not a million. His is one.

[bulldogtragic]

Looked like a masterstroke 6 weeks in when we were playing some of our best footy ever under Bevo.

Is it too much to suggest that Stef going down has cost us a flag?

Putting our fortunes in a 34yo with a shot body was perhaps not the best idea. The question I really want answered is if we’ve learned the lesson for this trade period.

[Rocco Jones]

Putting our fortunes in a 34yo with a shot body was perhaps not the best idea. The question I really want answered is if we’ve learned the lesson for this trade period.

I guess at least it was some progress in getting we wanted a ruck. English played his career best footy alongside him and as much as we don't think Sweet is rated by Bevo, he has progressed.

Stef coming in has been good I think. Just not having another ruck is the killer.

[bulldogtragic]

I guess at least it was some progress in getting we wanted a ruck. English played his career best footy alongside him and as much as we don't think Sweet is rated by Bevo, he has progressed.

Stef coming in has been good I think. Just not having another ruck is the killer.

That’s my hope too. Acknowledging we had a ruck problem was the first step to try to address it. That first 7 weeks hopefully salisfied that we need to invest more heavily. That’s the hope anyway.

[soupman]

Great proof of concept that we are better with an actual ruck. Now we can make an informed purchase at this years trade market.

[ratsmac]

Great proof of concept that we are better with an actual ruck. Now we can make an informed purchase at this years trade market.

Our form with an actual number 1 ruckman should be good incentive for a good ruckman who wouldn't mind the chance at winning a flag or 2.
Wouldn't it be nice to lure Nic Nat away from wet toast with the prospect of winning a flag now that they look to be heading south on the ladder. Imagine Bont with Nic Nat service every week!

[jeemak]

Our form with an actual number 1 ruckman should be good incentive for a good ruckman who wouldn't mind the chance at winning a flag or 2.
Wouldn't it be nice to lure Nic Nat away from wet toast with the prospect of winning a flag now that they look to be heading south on the ladder. Imagine Bont with Nic Nat service every week!

Our issue is we don't pay enough to land big names (unless like Collingwood have done, we pay a portion of salary), rather, it seems we pay enough to keep the ones we have together. And that's not me just guessing, Power and Bains have said that's our strategy.

I actually like it as a strategy if we pick and choose the right players to come into the team based on needs. A massive deal for a ruck like Nic Nat or Grundy would be a real surprise to me as much as I'd like it to happen in theory.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hard to see Nic Nat ever leaving too, but can you imagine for a second that it happened? I think I'd need some meds to calm me down.

[1eyedog]

We don't need a top-liner a Nank would be fine. Big, strong, tough, can play hurt, does hurt others. Some intimidation in the middle would help out heaps. Even Mummy has played twice as many games as Martin and GWS have other ruckmen.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We don't need a top-liner a Nank would be fine. Big, strong, tough, can play hurt, does hurt others. Some intimidation in the middle would help out heaps. Even Mummy has played twice as many games as Martin and GWS have other ruckmen.

Agreed - the fantasy of Nic Nat in a Bulldogs jumper is nice to dream about though.

We've been talking a lot about uncontracted rucks. Scrap that. Who's contracted that we should be talking to besides Gawn/Grundy/Nic Nat?

Nank I'd love but he does seem embedded to Richmond. What others are out there? Can we throw big $$ at O'Brien? How about Witts from GC, even though he's coming off a knee? What would it take to get Marshall from St Kilda?

I want us to be very aggressive. If we have to trade a quality mid (i.e. Smith), it is what it is.

[1eyedog]

Agreed - the fantasy of Nic Nat in a Bulldogs jumper is nice to dream about though.

We've been talking a lot about uncontracted rucks. Scrap that. Who's contracted that we should be talking to besides Gawn/Grundy/Nic Nat?

Nank I'd love but he does seem embedded to Richmond. What others are out there? Can we throw big $$ at O'Brien? How about Witts from GC, even though he's coming off a knee? What would it take to get Marshall from St Kilda?

I want us to be very aggressive. If we have to trade a quality mid (i.e. Smith), it is what it is.

Yeah our issues aren't solved by the fringe ruckmen that seem to be available. We need to be creative and make a big dollar multi-year commitment.

[Ghost Dog]

We don't need a top-liner a Nank would be fine. Big, strong, tough, can play hurt, does hurt others. Some intimidation in the middle would help out heaps. Even Mummy has played twice as many games as Martin and GWS have other ruckmen.

sadly, this is exactly what we wanted out of Martin.

[soupman]

We need at a minimum a ruck who:
-isn't a liability around the ground
-Is able to hold his own in the ruck so that the opposition don't get an advantage from that matchup.

It would be nice to have a matchwinner in there, but considering we have plonked our cash down on matchwinners in our midfield then we just need someone who can do their job.

Couple that with us not having the trade capital to go for one of the 6 genuinely good rucks, means that all we need is someone solid.

A few names that seem ball park to me and should be cheap are:
-Kieran Strachan. Big country lad from Bendigo. Played 3 games. Undertsudy to O'Brien who is locked in as the Crows ruck for basically forever. Seemed to cover the ground well. He is an ex rookie that should cost nothing, maybe the Lipinski pick at most.
-Rhys Stanley. Mobile and "athletic". Not an outstanding ruck but I believe is better at holing his own than our bunch, and I think a bit like Hickey could benefit from a fresh start where he the focus is on what he can do again. Would be free.
-Ben McEvoy. Old so maybe in danger of dying on field like Martin, but solid as hell, good ruckman who can push into defence. Not as atheltic as Stanley but a much better player and good in the air. Should be free.
-Jon Ceglar. Been a solid battler for ages. Can clunk a mark and isn't terrible around the ground although doesn't move very athletically. I think he holds his own in the ruck. Would be free.
-Matthew Flynn. Big boy that played a number of games this year. Can find the ball ok, although I don't think he is overly impressive with it. Decent in the hitout stakes, and is possibly surplus at GWS who have preferred Mumford to him at times and is competing with Briggs and Preuss should he ever return. Would basically be the most expensive of the rucks listed above, but again wouldn't cost much imo. Maybe a future second at most (which is really pick 30+)
-Peter Ladhams. Has been brought up a lot here. Not sure he is actually the hitout ruck we need, projects a bit like English in that he is a ruck forward who's worst feature is probably his hitouts. Better at that than Tim though, good link up player around the ground and can perform forward. Free agent.
-Max Lynch. I've honestly never seen him play but his limited numbers seem decent enough. Unsure what he is like in the other aspects of his game. Can't imagine he'd cost much.

There are a few other names that could be brought up like Chol, Williams, Goldstein, Coleman-Jones, Hayes but I don't know a heap about most of them.

[The Pie Man]

Hard to see Nic Nat ever leaving too, but can you imagine for a second that it happened? I think I'd need some meds to calm me down.

Bevo probably wouldn’t play him based on his TOG record

[Sedat]

Yeah our issues aren't solved by the fringe ruckmen that seem to be available. We need to be creative and make a big dollar multi-year commitment.
Hickey was the very definition of an available fringe ruckman 12 months ago - the 'right' fringe ruckman can make a big difference. Agree that the bog standard fringe ruckman is not what we need.

[Rocco Jones]

Hickey was the very definition of an available fringe ruckman 12 months ago - the 'right' fringe ruckman can make a big difference. Agree that the bog standard fringe ruckman is not what we need.

I think we are so bare that we should go with 2 options. Need a back up anyway if one works out. English I believe can at that AFL elite forward/2nd ruck level (not many that are much good at it so 'elite' maybe a stretch). We have Darcy coming through he can play that role too. I actually feel we have that 2nd role really set up well. Just that we tend to go it in our 1 spot.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we are so bare that we should go with 2 options. Need a back up anyway if one works out. English I believe can at that AFL elite forward/2nd ruck level (not many that are much good at it so 'elite' maybe a stretch). We have Darcy coming through he can play that role too. I actually feel we have that 2nd role really set up well. Just that we tend to go it in our 1 spot.

Has to be be two for mine. One injury to the ruck and Bruce (Out for 12 months) and we are looking average with Young trying his guts out to his credit. Put Tim in the forward group for next year, Darcy will spend the year at VFL, and one new Ruck and Sweet is one injury away from repeating this ‘experiment’ again next year with no proven AFL Rucks ready to play. I doubt we try to get two rucks though. But we really do need to.

[Rocco Jones]

I see comments about 'solving' our problem with a NicNat or Gawn type. That isn't just solved, it's taking our glaring weakness into a massive strength. Also, it's very improbable. Don't get me wrong, I want a NicNat or Gawn and will lose my proverbial if we get an elite ruck. What I would be content with though, is progress and improvement in that department.

[1eyedog]

I though Ladhams was fantastic last night, albeit not as a ruckman.

[comrade]

I though Ladhams was fantastic last night, albeit not as a ruckman.

Looked good, didn’t he? Mobile, aggressive. I can see him becoming a more than suitable #1 next year and beyond.