Harley Bennell.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I've been salivating over Harley Bennell for years, and dreaming up schemes to get him to the Whitten oval.

Now, miracle of miracles,........he's actually available. He's actually on the market.

And to top it off, he's being cleared at 'scratch and dent sale' rates.

I think he fits one of our needs exactly.

A silky smooth, super fast, highly skilled, ball carrying, line breaking, goal kicking midfielder.

A former No 2 pick. Entering his prime. 185cm. Strong overhead.

Now, unlike say, Dayle Garlett, Bennell has been IN the system for 5 years now.
5 years of pre seasons...5 years of dietary guidelines, 5 years of home and away senior AFL football. And In the broad scheme of things has generally coped with it all.

He's had 2 indiscretions. (that we know of) The first was in the off season, and if that photo wasn't leaked, maybe no one would ever have known about it, and I imagine there would be a lot of players doing stuff in the off season we don't know or hear about.

The second and most recent one seems to be pretty petty in my book. But probably reveals someone who needs a change of scenery. Someone who needs to move to a club with strong leadership. I don't know, maybe a team that boasts THE AFLPA CAPTAIN OF THE YEAR!?!?! And the man highly touted to be Coach of the year. And upstanding citizens like Boyd, Morris, Roughhead, under 22 CAPTAIN OF THE YEAR Jake Stringer, and a man who has already proven himself to be a socially minded leader, Young Master Bonti.

I, for one hope we chase Benell I would love to see him in the red white and blue.
And would also be away to... how do I say this? 'back leverage' ourselves into the upper reaches of the 2010 draft.

2010
2 Bennell
22 Wallis
41 Liberatore
(trust me...you don't want me to list the rest of the names from that draft)

Please please please, fingers crossed. Bennell is an out and out superstar.
GET............HIM!!!

[Cyberdoggie]

I think there will be a few clubs after him and he won't come cheaply.
Everyone knows he's a quality player and they will all be thinking he's a bargain but will pay highly anyway.

So does that mean our "No D!#$heads" policy is done with?

[1eyedog]

He'll go to Collingwood - will fit in nicely there.

I'd take the risk. Seriously good player and as you say he ticks all the boxes and more. We are an attractive proposition now except I reckon the last thing he needs is to be dropped into the Melbourne fishbowl. GWS would be the spot for him if anywhere.

[Greystache]

I think there will be a few clubs after him and he won't come cheaply.
Everyone knows he's a quality player and they will all be thinking he's a bargain but will pay highly anyway.

So does that mean our "No D!#$heads" policy is done with?

The no dickheads policy was officially torched when we overpaid for Sherman. Before that it was only lip service anyway.

BMac's focus on good people was different and has had much better results. Not sure how Bevo wants to approach things.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think there will be a few clubs after him and he won't come cheaply.
Everyone knows he's a quality player and they will all be thinking he's a bargain but will pay highly anyway.

So does that mean our "No D!#$heads" policy is done with?

I'm not to sure he's a D!#$head.

[stefoid]

Would be a better risk to take than Berger.

We would be required to trade for him which would make Dalrymple a sad panda.

Would the cost in draft picks and salary be better spent on a ready made KPP, either this year or next?

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think there will be a few clubs after him and he won't come cheaply.
Everyone knows he's a quality player and they will all be thinking he's a bargain but will pay highly anyway.

So does that mean our "No D!#$heads" policy is done with?

a few clubs have already stated they don't aim to pursue him, and he'll still come cheaper than if we were trying to prise him out of the joint. Would be nice to even the ledger for Harbrow as well.

[F'scary]

I agree he is a supremely talented footballer who can play just about any non-KP role. But the fact that Eade & co are so keen to offload him has to be a worry.

If we could be sure that he would be a true professional in his approach to being a member of our team, I'd be prepared to offer our pick 11. We could also do with his 81 games experience, he's 23 yo at the start of next season.

[Scraggers]

Very talented footballer ... But Rocket and the powers that be at Cold Toast are not going to kick out a number 2 draft pick with this much potential for 2 indiscretions. There has to be way more to it than we know about.

It's a no for me

[KT31]

Not me me either, one bad apple spoils the crop.

[Mantis]

I'm a big yes, but at the right price... Hugely talented player, who would slot in nicely to our team.

[F'scary]

Very talented footballer ... But Rocket and the powers that be at Cold Toast are not going to kick out a number 2 draft pick with this much potential for 2 indiscretions. There has to be way more to it than we know about.

It's a no for me

Agree, there's got to be more to it than the two indiscretions - trading out a number 2 pick in his prime and who is close to God's gift to football (on the field) indicates that perhaps they have decided that he is uncoachable or uncontrollable or something along those lines.

[Throughandthrough]

he's the Fevola of the new generation.

[Mantis]

Agree, there's got to be more to it than the two indiscretions - trading out a number 2 pick in his prime and who is close to God's gift to football (on the field) indicates that perhaps they have decided that he is uncoachable or uncontrollable or something along those lines.

Or maybe that they just had to make a stand.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes.

Perfect for our midfield/forward rotations.

Traditionally we haven't really been a club that pursues these 'troubled' types of players though, and given we have one already (Libba) I can't see us entertaining it.

I'd love to be wrong though - he'd make us a much better side.

[bornadog]

I'm a big yes, but at the right price... Hugely talented player, who would slot in nicely to our team.
Agree, what would we have to give up

[Twodogs]

I agree he is a supremely talented footballer who can play just about any non-KP role. But the fact that Eade & co are so keen to offload him has to be a worry.

If we could be sure that he would be a true professional in his approach to being a member of our team, I'd be prepared to offer our pick 11. We could also do with his 81 games experience, he's 23 yo at the start of next season.

Yep.

Although Mantis might be right and they could be making a stand.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am certainly not sold on Bennell, even though I see that he has an abundance of talent.

Not sure there is sufficient evidence that he is prepared to do the team things and dedicate himself to being the best AFL player he can be. After 5 years at GC the problems in attitude may be beyond redemption.

I am also not convinced that he is tough enough at the contest. I recall that when we played GC in Darwin, DFA ended with a suspension simply because Bennell went to ground in a contest and refused to get up.

I hope we leave him to someone else.

[bulldogtragic]

I want us to have a pick around the top 20.

If we could wrangle a down grade from pick 13 to GCS pick 25 then I can start there. Obviously they would want a pretty handy player to make it a good offer. Would they want Minson, Talia and/or Hrovat if these boys want to move? Could that do the deal? Pick 13, Minson and Hrovat/Talia,

GCS have said he's gone, so 25 into 13 and two players might be enough. plus Ports pick for Dixon at pick 17 plus a player gives them: Picks 5, 13 and 17. That gives them huge draft and trading currency plus three players they'd be happy to trade in.

[stefoid]

Not a great shot on goal, is he? Hes running a tad over 50%

[Twodogs]

Not a great shot on goal, is he? Hes running a tad over 50%

He will fit right in then.

[comrade]

Can I get a hell yeah!

[bornadog]

Can I get a hell yeah!
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-gimme-a-hell-yeah.png

[Scraggers]

Or maybe that they just had to make a stand.

If he is hat good a player both on and off the field, you make a stand by giving your player a $5000 fine for that sort of indiscretion (Luke Hodge anyone?). Me thinks somethin's rotten in the state of Kansas. It's gotta be more than the two mistakes he has made.

Is anyone here still in contact with Rocket and could get some inside info for us ??

[Sedat]

Bennell would be a very good addition to the list. Just a natural footballer, elite skills, quick and versatile. Has some obvious baggage but not in the Lawrence Angwin/Dayle Garlett variety. If he was a jovial pisshead (something the old-skool scribes know and understand), he'd basically be Stevie J at the same age. Throw a couple of lines of white powder into the equation and all of sudden he's become Pablo Escobar.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think that GCS really has no culture and they're trying to build one from the ground up.
A bunch of young, hot shot, high draft pick footballers from all over the country move in to the gold coast together???

Bennell I reckon just needs a proper team environment around him with strong social connections. A genuine history, and genuine leaders. Blokes with families, Blokes who work in the community.
If Goodesy sticks with Footscray, having an indigenous social worker in the ranks would help too.

Now of course I don't KNOW if any of my theory is true........but that's my gut feel......

[divvydan]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/harley-bennell-tried-to-fight-herald-suns-mark-robinson-at-brownlow-medal-count/story-fni5f7ka-1227345889900

This was an article from earlier this year when the drug picture came out. Can't vouch for its accuracy but if true it implies an alcohol abuse issue.

[1eyedog]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/harley-bennell-tried-to-fight-herald-suns-mark-robinson-at-brownlow-medal-count/story-fni5f7ka-1227345889900

This was an article from earlier this year when the drug picture came out. Can't vouch for its accuracy but if true it implies an alcohol abuse issue.

It actually implies he was a bit pissed and pissed off at Robbo at the Brownlow and that's about it.

Bennell would be good for us no doubt about it. There's no one else on our list anyway like him, he's Daniel Wells on steroids and would be a player who could play all over the ground.

Strong leaders, a strong club and an opportunity to go deep into next years finals may be the tonic he needs.

Straight swap for Grant?

[Greystache]

Bennell would be a very good addition to the list. Just a natural footballer, elite skills, quick and versatile. Has some obvious baggage but not in the Lawrence Angwin/Dayle Garlett variety. If he was a jovial pisshead (something the old-skool scribes know and understand), he'd basically be Stevie J at the same age. Throw a couple of lines of white powder into the equation and all of sudden he's become Pablo Escobar.

He's on the piss constantly. His biggest problem is he's a *!*!*!*!wit when he's on the piss, getting in everyone's face and trying to start punch ups. He's gets on the lines of white powder so he can be a *!*!*!*!wit for longer. His team mates go to great lengths to keep him out of trouble when he's on the turps, but eventually he wears out their patience and they leave him do his own thing and he ends up in trouble.

He shouldn't drink, period, but he won't listen.

[1eyedog]

It sounds like you know him?

[Sedat]

He's on the piss constantly. His biggest problem is he's a *!*!*!*!wit when he's on the piss, getting in everyone's face and trying to start punch ups. He's gets on the lines of white powder so he can be a *!*!*!*!wit for longer. His team mates go to great lengths to keep him out of trouble when he's on the turps, but eventually he wears out their patience and they leave him do his own thing and he ends up in trouble.

He shouldn't drink, period, but he won't listen.
If that's the case, he needs to come to the realisation himself that he needs to stay off the gas otherwise he will lead an unfulfilled AFL career.

[Greystache]

If that's the case, he needs to come to the realisation himself that he needs to stay off the gas otherwise he will lead an unfulfilled AFL career.

He needs to, absoloutely, but will he? Obviously GC think not after having tried a number of times to change his ways. The fact he couldn't even get through the first weekend of the off season without getting in trouble speaks volumes.

[KT31]

He's on the piss constantly. His biggest problem is he's a *!*!*!*!wit when he's on the piss, getting in everyone's face and trying to start punch ups. He's gets on the lines of white powder so he can be a *!*!*!*!wit for longer. His team mates go to great lengths to keep him out of trouble when he's on the turps, but eventually he wears out their patience and they leave him do his own thing and he ends up in trouble.

He shouldn't drink, period, but he won't listen.

Would be a great asset in a young impressionable side.:rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

I would love to have him at the club, he is genuine class on the field maybe not off it though. Im hoping boys will be boys and he grows out of it, hoping the same with libba asweĺl.

[GVGjr]

I am certainly not sold on Bennell, even though I see that he has an abundance of talent.

Not sure there is sufficient evidence that he is prepared to do the team things and dedicate himself to being the best AFL player he can be. After 5 years at GC the problems in attitude may be beyond redemption.

I am also not convinced that he is tough enough at the contest. I recall that when we played GC in Darwin, DFA ended with a suspension simply because Bennell went to ground in a contest and refused to get up.

I hope we leave him to someone else.

Totally agree.
If he was a lesser player most on here would say sorry he isn't worth it because of his stuff ups. People are being seduced by his playing potential when in fact we should be considering if we have the environment and resources to get the most out of him. I don't think we should consider him unless someone can convince us that he his chances of stuffing up again is minimal and I doubt anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that with any confidence.

The fact that Eade is saying Bennell's sacking will finally get the message across to him means little to me and to be honest his endorsement rings the alarm bell that much louder with me.

He's probably a nice bloke when things are going well and I hope he makes a go of it. Do I want us to take the risk based on the information we currently have? A big no thanks.

[F'scary]

Having read the views posted on this thread and thought about it, I have gone right off recruiting Bennell. The very fact GCS are basically sacking him, with all the talent he has shown on the field, indicates that he must be incorrigible in his bad ways off it. Too high a risk. Whichever club takes him could be up for an in season sacking episode.

[boydogs]

Didn't MJP coach him? A few years back now

[Dancin' Douggy]

Having read the views posted on this thread and thought about it, I have gone right off recruiting Bennell. The very fact GCS are basically sacking him, with all the talent he has shown on the field, indicates that he must be incorrigible in his bad ways off it. Too high a risk. Whichever club takes him could be up for an in season sacking episode.

I hear what you're saying... but, somehow, I still think it's worth the risk. Maybe I'm a softie, but I think with the right environment he could come good. And the upside............Whoah, He's pretty special. And has proved it at AFL level too.
It's a whole lot different than the Dayle Garlett scenario.
Maybe I want it to happen just as much for Harley himself.
If he can turn it around.........? What a role model.....What a hero. And I don't think he's so far down a bad path that it would take a Herculean effort either. Just some discipline, focus and support...........
AND REWARDS TOO, DON'T FORGET.
Playing to real crowds with a real football team in a real football city and surging up the ladder...surely that's gonna help his mental state

[chef]

Not worth the risk for what he'll cost.

We have more pressing needs anyway.

[GVGjr]

I hear what you're saying... but, somehow, I still think it's worth the risk. Maybe I'm a softie, but I think with the right environment he could come good. And the upside............Whoah, He's pretty special. And has proved it at AFL level too.


Are you certain we have the right environment and if so that we could protect it long term by taking risks?
Why are you confident we could manage him well?
He's not actually a victim of a GC culture he's just made bad decisions and we would need to make sure the chances of that happening again is minimal.

On a side note haven't clubs also lost sponsors when players stuff up?

[bulldogtragic]

I want to see the price tag first. But a kid who has problems with saying no isn't in and of itself doesn't but him beyond redemption. I'm not sure why he is even being mentioned with Dayle Garlett, is it his skin colour? You could easily mention Gary Ablett Snr, of Liberatore Jnr after the end of last year. I wouldn't say no just yet, but see what's the price tag is.

[GVGjr]

I want to see the price tag first. But a kid who has problems with saying no isn't in and of itself doesn't but him beyond redemption.

Assume it's our first round pick around the 11 to 15 bracket. What changes your thoughts?

[jeemak]

Not me me either, one bad apple spoils the crop.

Is that why we did so well with Libba out of the team this year?

[Bulldog Joe]

I want to see the price tag first. But a kid who has problems with saying no isn't in and of itself doesn't but him beyond redemption. I'm not sure why he is even being mentioned with Dayle Garlett, is it his skin colour? You could easily mention Gary Ablett Snr, of Liberatore Jnr after the end of last year. I wouldn't say no just yet, but see what's the price tag is.

Why wouldn't Dayle Garlett be used as a comparator. On ability he was probably the best in the nation, but he failed on attitude at a very young age. Isn't that almost where Bennell is now. I know he is older with a few years in the system, but why would his club be getting rid of him if the situation was manageable.

Ablett snr is a different case from a different time and his move to Geelong allowed him to be the footballer he became. Perhaps that environment may suit Harley.

Libba jnr does not seem as serious and he has certainly not (yet) exhausted the patience of his club.


Assume it's our first round pick around the 11 to 15 bracket. What changes your thoughts?

The draft pick is only part of the cost. What is the salary implication and its impact on the total player payment.

[bulldogtragic]

Assume it's our first round pick around the 11 to 15 bracket. What changes your thoughts?

If that's the price tag, then that's a club call for me. As this is a hyperthetical, I am going with Talia or Hrovat getting us a trade from second round into first. So if we had a couple of picks 11-19... Then perhaps we keep 11 and trade 17 for him? If we got a ruckman through other means to high trade picks, then I'd have a think about him. If Aish or Rich were available then I am into them more. I guess I'm keeping an open mind to see what's around and cost.

[GVGjr]

Is that why we did so well with Libba out of the team this year?

Libba was around the club plenty this year.

Looking after your own should be encouraged, taking on others when we don't know the full story is something else.
A few clubs seem to be looking past Bennells obvious footy talents and I'd like to know why there isn't a potential bidding war at the moment. It might come later but at the moment it appears clubs are backing off.

[bulldogtragic]

Why wouldn't Dayle Garlett be used as a comparator. On ability he was probably the best in the nation, but he failed on attitude at a very young age. Isn't that almost where Bennell is now. I know he is older with a few years in the system, but why would his club be getting rid of him if the situation was manageable.

Ablett snr is a different case from a different time and his move to Geelong allowed him to be the footballer he became. Perhaps that environment may suit Harley.

Libba jnr does not seem as serious and he has certainly not (yet) exhausted the patience of his club.



The draft pick is only part of the cost. What is the salary implication and its impact on the total player payment.

Dayle Garlett allegedly had and/or developed a serious ice addiction while living with Luke Hodge. Dayle by reports is still addicted to ice and in and around prison for involvement in alleged criminal acts.

There's no evidence of Bennell using drugs this year, that photo was a while back. He seems to be a tool especially when he hits the grog and has no understanding that his actions have consequences.

One is living on the GCS in an environment the permits excess or did at one point. One was a young kid with serious, serious problems now manifesting in a personal disaster. But, they're both young, outside runners and have similar skin tone.

[jeemak]

Libba was around the club plenty this year.

Looking after your own should be encouraged, taking on others when we don't know the full story is something else.
A few clubs seem to be looking past Bennells obvious footy talents and I'd like to know why there isn't a potential bidding war at the moment. It might come later but at the moment it appears clubs are backing off.

Of course he was, and he didn't spoil the bunch and I'm supremely confident he's given the partying a fair nudge too.

I take your point by the way, and agree to an extent. I just think some of us are happy to think we have a Libba problem, and that's the extent of it because he's the only one in the gun for it.

[GVGjr]

If that's the price tag, then that's a club call for me. As this is a hyperthetical, I am going with Talia or Hrovat getting us a trade from second round into first. So if we had a couple of picks 11-19... Then perhaps we keep 11 and trade 17 for him? If we got a ruckman through other means to high trade picks, then I'd have a think about him. If Aish or Rich were available then I am into them more. I guess I'm keeping an open mind to see what's around and cost.

You're asking a question about what price we would have to pay to acquire Bennell so if our current first round pick (11) isn't right for you does a pick around 17 sit better? Yes it's a hypothetical but at what pick do you feel comfortable with assuming we have options?

[KT31]

Is that why we did so well with Libba out of the team this year?

Why take the risk and increase the odds with two bad apples ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Dayle Garlett allegedly had and/or developed a serious ice addiction while living with Luke Hodge. Dayle by reports is still addicted to ice and in and around prison for involvement in alleged criminal acts.

There's no evidence of Bennell using drugs this year, that photo was a while back. He seems to be a tool especially when he hits the grog and has no understanding that his actions have consequences.

One is living on the GCS in an environment the permits excess or did at one point. One was a young kid with serious, serious problems now manifesting in a personal disaster. But, they're both young, outside runners and have similar skin tone.

Sorry BT, but I find your comment out of order.
It is absolutely nothing to do with skin tone.

It does, however have everything to do with personal responsibility. Garlett was overlooked for attitude issues and Hawthorn then took the chance, believing their culture would rectify his problems.

Bennell has been shown the door for attitude issues and has apparently failed to take the necessary personal responsibility for his actions. I do not see how we could take the risk. We cannot be the benevolent society taking on others problems. That is a job for the wider community not the football club and certainly not our football club.

Bennell needs to prove that he has an attitude change and for me he should be doing that at a State League.
I wish him well and genuinely hope that if any club takes him on, they are able to do the best for him and get the best from him. I just do not want it to be our club, when we have done so much to put ourselves in such a sound position for the future.

[lemmon]

He's already been deemed too large a risk by two clubs in their premiership windows desperate for a player of his type. To me that says back a different horse

[ledge]

I saw Libba at all The VFL games , talked to him once , seems very shy and timid, maybe easily led and his mates outside football draw him in, I believe that was the problem with Franklin,his mates outside football are a bit naughty.
From all the talk about knee injuries and how you can get depressed etc ,the club had taken the right step in keeping an eye, also ( I know this doesn't sound good) it might be a good thing Clay Smith Is doing the same thing at the same time, Clay is very driven in football and I'm sure you couldn't get a better guy pushing Libba to do the right thing as well.

[ledge]

He's already been deemed too large a risk by two clubs in their premiership windows desperate for a player of his type. To me that says back a different horse

I tend to agree . I thought i heard Garlett had really gone off the rails since leaving the Hawks, is he actually playing football at all now.
Bennell is older and has one chance to fix it by going back to state league and showing he has matured, but if Rocket couldn't get him to come good it would be hard seeing anyone else being successful.
I wouldn't touch Bennell because our club culture is young and we don't want him influencing any of our young kids.
Another way of looking at it is if my son was at the dogs and the club was picking up
These sorts of players I would probably be wondering about my son, it can have further complication with players and parents.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry BT, but I find your comment out of order.
It is absolutely nothing to do with skin tone.

It does, however have everything to do with personal responsibility. Garlett was overlooked for attitude issues and Hawthorn then took the chance, believing their culture would rectify his problems.

Bennell has been shown the door for attitude issues and has apparently failed to take the necessary personal responsibility for his actions. I do not see how we could take the risk. We cannot be the benevolent society taking on others problems. That is a job for the wider community not the football club and certainly not our football club.

Bennell needs to prove that he has an attitude change and for me he should be doing that at a State League.
I wish him well and genuinely hope that if any club takes him on, they are able to do the best for him and get the best from him. I just do not want it to be our club, when we have done so much to put ourselves in such a sound position for the future.

The comment isn't personal to you, my apologies if it read like that. The media picked up the comparison and I think it's not fair for a few different reasons. There were photos of Dayle with young Schofield who we let go home to turn into a bigger shit piss pot. There's a whole string of dickheads in or out of playing ranks such as Lawy Angwin, Schofield, Boumann. There's a long line of confirmed recent drug takers or possessors in Libba, Keefe and co, and back as far as Mainwaring, Cousins, the ex Freo dude that got hit by the tram.

Realistically, he is closer to Cousins in comparison. And not even close to the high water mark Cousins set. And I feel even more sorry for Dayle that his name and exploits are being thrown around by media types. I think it's unfair a good kid, turn criminal ice addict who turned his back on AFL gets mentioned. But for that, I think it's unfair Harley gets measured against that marker. The media should be saying he's starting to walk the line Cousins ran down, then sub sequentially, stripped, swam across the river and denied driving. That's fairer. The discussion can then go to 'if' Cousins was booted out 4 or 5 years earlier, could he have started his rebuild as a player and person earlier and gone onto the big heights. I think he could've. I think Harley could too. The price is the key thing which is unknown. The debate when we were discussing DG years back was using our first rounder and the risk too big both years. DG went past pick 30 to Hawthorn and then well worth the risk. Let's see the price is my point.

As I say, it's nothing against you.

[ratsmac]

This has got Aker written all over it for mine. Not the substance abuse but the attitude maybe.

Both Aker and Bennell have talent to burn and both had/have off field issues that weren't in accordance to their clubs behaviour policy. Eventually their employers had enough and sacked them. Both had/have buyer beware stigma about them.

We took a punt on Aker and got a couple of really good years from him but it didn't take to long before he started to rock the boat.

I like Bennell, he would add another dimension to our midfield, but is he worth the risk? I'm glad it's not my decision.

[jeemak]

I saw Libba at all The VFL games , talked to him once , seems very shy and timid, maybe easily led and his mates outside football draw him in, I believe that was the problem with Franklin,his mates outside football are a bit naughty.
From all the talk about knee injuries and how you can get depressed etc ,the club had taken the right step in keeping an eye, also ( I know this doesn't sound good) it might be a good thing Clay Smith Is doing the same thing at the same time, Clay is very driven in football and I'm sure you couldn't get a better guy pushing Libba to do the right thing as well.

I'm surprised that after one brief meeting with a person you've seen on the TV you've been able to determine that it's his mates and not him that are to blame for his issues.

Maybe the guy just likes to smash it and party.

Why do we not - as football supporters, any club - go immediately to the most obvious reason when it comes to footballers who play for our club getting out and partying? Sure, the club has a reason to tell us there's elements outside of football that makes its own players act up, I mean really, what club in history has been honest with itself and its supporters and members about its own culture? Ken Judge tried it, and that ended in a premiership, a club legend dead and two club legends with serious ice issues.

[Dancin' Douggy]

There's a big difference between Garlett and Bennell.

Garlett was a known risk despite his talent. Before he was even drafted. So he had major major issues as a 16 - 17 yr old.
He was raved about as perhaps a potential top 5 pick on raw talent. but was completely overlooked in one draft. COMPLETELY.
He had pictures of himself clearly zinging out of his head plastered all over facebook. Didn't even try to hide his behaviour.

A year later, after 'committing' himself to an AFL career, and vowing to clean up his act, he was eventually picked up by the hawks and couldn't even last ONE preseason before throwing in the towel and plummeting back into a life of drug addiction and petty crime.

Bennell, on the other hand, was taken at pick two. Has survived 5 years IN the system with a handful of indiscretions. None of, which in isolation, are really terrible. Not great. But not terrible.

Compare the two, by all means, but only to show the major contrast between the two stories.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm surprised that after one brief meeting with a person you've seen on the TV you've been able to determine that it's his mates and not him that are to blame for his issues.

Maybe the guy just likes to smash it and party.

Why do we not - as football supporters, any club - go immediately to the most obvious reason when it comes to footballers who play for our club getting out and partying? Sure, the club has a reason to tell us there's elements outside of football that makes its own players act up, I mean really, what club in history has been honest with itself and its supporters and members about its own culture? Ken Judge tried it, and that ended in a premiership, a club legend dead and two club legends with serious ice issues.

Yep. I can't burn who exactly it was, but I was at the footy in the last 18 months and was chatting to a senior type person around the club and was chatting about another clubs players, drugs and the like. The response to me was we would all have to be completely ignorant to think that there are not players on our list who either haven't or won't take 'recreational' drugs. The explanation was that we have a lot of young man, and as this is a whole of society issue the idea that young men outside AFL clubs are doing it, but our young men inside a footy club are absolutely not doing it isn't based in reality. With a VFL squad around we could have 50 young players who may have a myriad of reasons for trying it. The answer was to educate young men, to promote better health, reduce stigmas, increase communication with players and have an open and honest dialogue. Most important was to think the issue of drugs was immune in our club. It was a passionate position and I endorse it, and even more so after this convo.

As to Harley, the idea that we've got 40 angels who've never done it, or will ever do it is incorrect. They've just not been caught or its suppressed under the strike system. The idea Harley could bring down our club by drinking on past drug taking or corrupt our players doesn't work with me. If the club assesses him as able to be rehabilitated, develop as a person and bloom as a footballer than I'm all for it. If he relapses despite the clubs best judgement, I'm confident our off field, our coaches, our player leadership group and players are more than strong enough to deal with it and not let it fester. Our players have personally seen off Joyce, Wallis early and Akermanis. If nothing else, the generational transfer of strong player led decisions is certain.

But it's all hypothetical. One does the club believe it can develop him all round? Is the club willing to pay the price?

[GVGjr]

There's a big difference between Garlett and Bennell.

Garlett was a known risk despite his talent. Before he was even drafted. So he had major major issues as a 16 - 17 yr old.
He was raved about as perhaps a potential top 5 pick on raw talent. but was completely overlooked in one draft. COMPLETELY.
He had pictures of himself clearly zinging out of his head plastered all over facebook. Didn't even try to hide his behaviour.

A year later, after 'committing' himself to an AFL career, and vowing to clean up his act, he was eventually picked up by the hawks and couldn't even last ONE preseason before throwing in the towel and plummeting back into a life of drug addiction and petty crime.

Bennell, on the other hand, was taken at pick two. Has survived 5 years IN the system with a handful of indiscretions. None of, which in isolation, are really terrible. Not great. But not terrible.

Compare the two, by all means, but only to show the major contrast between the two stories.

I'm only interested in why so many think Bennell is worth the risk. I disagree with your opinion on the severity of his struggles because I don't believe he has grasped how serious his actions will impact him and his club.

On talent alone, clubs should be willing to part with a first round pick to get him and it would be a bargain but of course there are many other things to consider. Clubs need to look past his talent and be confident they can help him which is not an easy thing to do.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm only interested in why so many think Bennell is worth the risk. I disagree with your opinion on the severity of his struggles because I don't believe he has grasped how serious his actions will impact him and his club.

On talent alone, clubs should be willing to part with a first round pick to get him and it would be a bargain but of course there are many other things to consider. Clubs need to look past his talent and be confident they can help him which is not an easy thing to do.

On talent alone, DG should've gone way before the Hawks pick 32. But it's not about talent alone as I think we all agree. I'm sure we have some banking or insurance posters who can explain a matrix of risk against investment and reward. He may be worth pick 11. But his off field issues might push the risk tolerance ordinarily to around late early second/third round recently Tutt, Fuller, Pearce. I.e. There's no guarantee the drafted kid will be any good. Perhaps then it's splitting pick 11 and pick 45 as the extremes of on and off field thresholds. Perhaps we get offered late 20's for a Hrovat or Talia. Perhaps he nominates us and demands GCS do the deal or walk in the PSD and scares competition away. At pick 25 is he worth the risk? Probably.

[GVGjr]

On talent alone, DG should've gone way before the Hawks pick 32. But it's not about talent alone as I think we all agree. I'm sure we have some banking or insurance posters who can explain a matrix of risk against investment and reward. He may be worth pick 11. But his off field issues might push the risk tolerance ordinarily to around late early second/third round recently Tutt, Fuller, Pearce. I.e. There's no guarantee the drafted kid will be any good. Perhaps then it's splitting pick 11 and pick 45 as the extremes of on and off field thresholds. Perhaps we get offered late 20's for a Hrovat or Talia. Perhaps he nominates us and demands GCS do the deal or walk in the PSD and scares competition away. At pick 25 is he worth the risk? Probably.

If we were to be confident his problems were just that of a naughty boy then it's no good being half in.
We can't be cute and use his past to negotiate a lesser deal because it then sends the wrong message to the player and the public.
If it's yes then we need to expect to cough up something substantial to get him and accept that it comes with baggage and risk however, if we are unsure then even our last pick in the draft is too high.

We can't dilly dally about pick 11, 17 or something else. He's a top end talent and if we are prepared to take the risk (I wouldn't) we should be prepared to go hard.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If we were to be confident his problems were just that of a naughty boy then it's no good being half in.
We can't be cute and use his past to negotiate a lesser deal because it then sends the wrong message to the player and the public.
If it's yes then we need to expect to cough up something substantial to get him and accept that it comes with baggage and risk however, if we are unsure then even our last pick in the draft is too high.

We can't dilly dally about pick 11, 17 or something else. He's a top end talent and if we are prepared to take the risk (I wouldn't) we should be prepared to go hard.

Ultimately 'the market' will decide his value, and his past indiscretions will certainly play a role in deciding that value.

If someone else bids more than we're prepared to bid, then so be it.
If we have a player lined up in the draft we're confident of getting with our first pick, who we think is worth more to us than Bennell.......then don't trade that pick. If we think Bennell for that pick is worth doing then do it.

Someone may still outbid us......... Nothing we can do about that.

UNLESS Bennell nominates us as the club he wants to go to........somehow those deals always seem to get done.

[Mantis]

At pick 25 is he worth the risk? Probably.

He would be a steal at pick 25.

[Cyberdoggie]

I'm not sure he will learn any lessons out of this either. If anything he we gain by moving from a small club to a larger one and probably on a better salary. Where is the life lesson learned or realization that it could all disappear?

If he has an addiction or addictive personality then it's not going to stop unless he takes a stand, and that often comes with a realization of what you have lost as a result of your actions. I just don't see that occurring and he seems to be still on that downward curve.

[The Doctor]

Too many risks for me. Pass

[LostDoggy]

Having read about Bennell's last indiscretion, apparently the club sent a minder to look after him. Bennell spent half the night trying to slip the minder, eventually did so and then almost immediately started creating enough of a ruckus to get the police involved.

Given the apparent sincerity of his media interviews only a few weeks earlier, about how much he owes the club and how much he wants to repay them and prove his worth, his lack of self control is pretty chronic. I'd be passing on him.

I've got nothing against the guy. I love watching him play and hope he gets to a good club and does well. From what I can see, he's not for us right now.

[F'scary]

I hear what you're saying... but, somehow, I still think it's worth the risk. Maybe I'm a softie, but I think with the right environment he could come good. And the upside............Whoah, He's pretty special. And has proved it at AFL level too.
It's a whole lot different than the Dayle Garlett scenario.
Maybe I want it to happen just as much for Harley himself.
If he can turn it around.........? What a role model.....What a hero. And I don't think he's so far down a bad path that it would take a Herculean effort either. Just some discipline, focus and support...........
AND REWARDS TOO, DON'T FORGET.
Playing to real crowds with a real football team in a real football city and surging up the ladder...surely that's gonna help his mental state

I don't know much about how the trading system works, but my feeling is that we would have to go with our 1st round pick (currently 11) to secure him. If we take the attitude that the reward is worth the risk, then so be it.

I do feel that if we could trade in one or two very good players in the 23-25 year age bracket with around 100 games experience it would be good for our player profile because our list is very young and inexperienced and 3 of the small number of players we have with 4 seasons or more senior experience are close to retirement - next year could be the last for Morris and Matt Boyd. I guess that is why Bennell being on the market caught my attention. He is very very good (on the field), has 81 games experience and is 23 yo.

[stefoid]

Someone on bigfooty said one of his problems if he is so talented that coaches tend to give him a pass, so he hasnt learned to respect limits - like a bratty kid with slack parents I assume he meant.

Bev doesnt give passes, though.

[comrade]

Still a big hell yeah for me.

[GVGjr]

Still a big hell yeah for me.

What would you be agreeable to part with to land him?

[bulldogtragic]

What would you be agreeable to part with to land him?

Our Natural Pick 29 (less drop downs) and Talia. If the latter and Adelaide want that trade to happen then it's three way trade, or GCS make an offer to Talia. Even Minson could factor if that random GWS trade rumour was true. Swap Minson and pick 29 for 25 (47 and 43).

Then 25 and Talia on the table with Adelaide in on the conversation if they want to be. Pick 13 down to 25 for Talia isn't completely out of the realms. Pick 13 onto GCS to go trading with.

Adelaide: Get 25 and another Key Defender (boy they really need one with a big opposition forward line), brothers, schooled Walker. It's a sellable story to the members. I can see a rational for it, still have a top 25 pick and may get 14 for Dangerfield. They could even keep 13 and use 14 to trade and only go down 11 spots.

GCS: Get pick 14 for him after sacking him. I could believe that. (If they go after Lynch from the Crows, perhaps keeping pick 25 and getting Lynch. Adelaide keep pick 14?)

Dogs: Keep pick 11, lose 29 (come 25), Talia and Minson. Get Bennell. I could live with that too.

[ledge]

I honestly don't think Minson Is going anywhere. I think he is our only ruckman and his endeavour and build are ahead of anyone else on our list.

[bulldogtragic]

I honestly don't think Minson Is going anywhere. I think he is our only ruckman and his endeavour and build are ahead of anyone else on our list.

Now Bellchambers and Kruezer are staying at their clubs, that only really leaves Luenberger as a threat to him staying. Campbell and Roughead with Ayce and Minson gone would be a crazy position. On that basis, you may be right.

[Twodogs]

What would you be agreeable to part with to land him?


Having read your earlier post I think you are right. We give them our first round pick because that's what he is worth on football talent and that's what we are paying for. The baggage is what it is. But it's not really part of the transaction because we don't want it to be part of the formula and GCS are hoping to ignore it because it can only deflate his value.

If we pay a second rounder then he gets a pass if he mucks up because it hasn't cost us as much. If we want him then no mucking around our first rounder and we have a gun. It's up to us to keep a lid on the behaviours.

[comrade]

What would you be agreeable to part with to land him?

If we could land him with anything outside this year's first pick, I'd be rapt.

For example, Talia + next year's first (which with some improvement should be 12+ on the draft board).

GC are in a tough position as they have effectively sacked him. No going back on that. So unless a bidding war erupts AND Bennell wants to go to one of the clubs in the bidding war, they are limited in what they can ask for.

That being said, I don't think he's the type of character our club are willing to pursue. In time we'll see if this style of character based recruiting pays off but I'd hate to miss out on 2 A grade talents (Carlisle & Bennell) because we weren't prepared to back in our system/culture to keep them in line.

[GVGjr]

That being said, I don't think he's the type of character our club are willing to pursue. In time we'll see if this style of character based recruiting pays off but I'd hate to miss out on 2 A grade talents (Carlisle & Bennell) because we weren't prepared to back in our system/culture to keep them in line.

It's an interesting point you raise, I could see an argument that our culture is capable of turning around players with a few distractions but I wouldn't expect any clubs culture has been set-up to take on other clubs problem children.
Clubs offer players a highly professional environment and opportunities to improve themselves on so many levels.
Should they have to take on people who aren't focused on maximising the opportunities they have in front of them?

We have seen first hand when team mates and coaches tried to keep the likes of Akermanis in line but many times you can't help people who either don't want it or think they are entitled to extra latitude.

Equally I'd hate to lose one of our current players who can't be bothered playing alongside someone who isn't as committed to the club as they were.

[Ghost Dog]

There have been a few players in the history of the game who have turned it around.
Johnson, Stokes, Betts, Lachie Hunter learning to set his alarm properly :D

The club could protect itself with some contractual thing.

When did our NDhead policy actually come into effect? Aker must have made it in before the deadline.
In hindsight, his relationship with Steven Price ( host of now defunct MTR Radio - featuring such luminary thinkers as Andrew Bolt, and Sam Newman ) should have set gigantic alarm bells clanging. Aker was convicted of homophobia in the court of public opinion, but Price was actually convicted in a court.

[ledge]

Aker was okay until we let him on radio so he could make up the income that he lost in his last contract, problem was he was bad mouthing his past and present employers.
If anyone did that to their employer in the media then they would be sacked, he actually did well to last as long as he did.

[bornadog]

Aker was okay until we let him on radio so he could make up the income that he lost in his last contract, problem was he was bad mouthing his past and present employers.
If anyone did that to their employer in the media then they would be sacked, he actually did well to last as long as he did.

Aker said some things that the AFL didn't want to know about, like rampant use of drugs by players, homophobia and various other things that we normally keep our mouth shut on even though we may think it.

[AndrewP6]

No way. Risk outweighs reward.

[Bulldog4life]

Aker said some things that the AFL didn't want to know about, like rampant use of drugs by players, homophobia and various other things that we normally keep our mouth shut on even though we may think it.

As well as talking out of school about what was said at one of our team meetings on The Footy Show. Rocket was livid. That was the final straw.

[Mantis]

No way. Risk outweighs reward.

Reward might be the missing ingredient for a premiership.

[NoseBleed]

Risk might be a total fracture in the playing group.

[Ghost Dog]

Risk might be a total fracture in the playing group.

Sponsors are a pretty sensitive lot as well. It would depend too on what sort of family he has.
You know Tom Liberatore is going to get good support, for example. But some kids from interstate without structures in place might struggle.
Speaking of sponsors, Mission Wraps are advertising here in China on TV.

[Ozza]

I'd love for us to take a risk on Bennell. I think there is an opportunity to get a gun player for way way under the odds here.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'd love for us to take a risk on Bennell. I think there is an opportunity to get a gun player for way way under the odds here.

That's my thinking. And not just a 'random' gun player either. He's the exact type we need to complement our midfield.

[strebla]

I have been following the discussion on here and all have valid points could we not set up a meeting with the coach and the leadership group. That to me will give us the best indication of where he is at and how he fill fit the group.

[LostDoggy]

I'd love for us to take a risk on Bennell. I think there is an opportunity to get a gun player for way way under the odds here.

The "under the odds" part of the equation is the key. If 4 or 5 clubs decide he's worth the risk, market forces will result in his value increasing. This seems probable to me. If he ends up needing a first rounder and, say $450k per year, then I would like to see us bow out.

Aside from the value factor disappearing, it will reinforce to Bennell that he ultimately gets away with his indiscretions. For his sake, I hope he ends up on a lower salary next year, but can see the opposite eventuating.

[Ghost Dog]

The "under the odds" part of the equation is the key. If 4 or 5 clubs decide he's worth the risk, market forces will result in his value increasing. This seems probable to me. If he ends up needing a first rounder and, say $450k per year, then I would like to see us bow out.

Aside from the value factor disappearing, it will reinforce to Bennell that he ultimately gets away with his indiscretions. For his sake, I hope he ends up on a lower salary next year, but can see the opposite eventuating.

Heath Shaw was a bit of a party animal at the pies. Having retired, gave an interview where he credited the Swans with turning him around. Pretty servicable over the journey. If we want to be a top team, we have to be able to put guys on the right track.

[LostDoggy]

Heath Shaw was a bit of a party animal at the pies. Having retired, gave an interview where he credited the Swans with turning him around. Pretty servicable over the journey. If we want to be a top team, we have to be able to put guys on the right track.

Heath Shaw went to GWS. Both the Shaws were playing in GFs at Collingwood in a mature group. Rhyce never left Collingwood for behavioural reasons, just needed a change after stinking it up in 2 GFs. Not sure example applies here.

[soupman]

If we want to be a top team, we have to be able to put guys on the right track.

Fair enough, although you need the right guys first.

I'm all for the club looking at Bennell and seeing if he is the "right guy", but it's a big risk and not taking in doesn't mean we don't qualify as a top team.

[AndrewP6]

Reward might be the missing ingredient for a premiership.
Perhaps, but I just see it as too great a risk.

[Remi Moses]

Heath Shaw went to GWS. Both the Shaws were playing in GFs at Collingwood in a mature group. Rhyce never left Collingwood for behavioural reasons, just needed a change after stinking it up in 2 GFs. Not sure example applies here.

I think the pies wanted to break up that group, whom were called the "rat pack".

[bornadog]

Perhaps, but I just see it as too great a risk.

What is the risk? If he is no good, you then get rid of him.

[Bulldog Joe]

What is the risk? If he is no good, you then get rid of him.

Surely it is not that simple.

If he stuffs up he creates a whole lot of issues. Do you remember Allan Jakovich?
There is potential to disenchant the existing playing list or parts of it.

He also takes salary, a list spot and probably a quality draft pick that could be used on someone identified as a long term preospect. Dalrymple is going pretty well at that.

[bornadog]

Surely it is not that simple.

If he stuffs up he creates a whole lot of issues. Do you remember Allan Jakovich?
There is potential to disenchant the existing playing list or parts of it.

He also takes salary, a list spot and probably a quality draft pick that could be used on someone identified as a long term preospect. Dalrymple is going pretty well at that.

On the flip side, he could turn out to be an absolute star and match winner for us.

[Bulldog Joe]

On the flip side, he could turn out to be an absolute star and match winner for us.

Yes he could, and he could also prove to be beyond redemption with his issues.

I just don't see that we need to stretch for him, when we already have Libba coming back next year.

We did actually perform pretty well in 2015 and our most pressing need is not solved by Harley Bennell.

[1eyedog]

Surely it is not that simple.

If he stuffs up he creates a whole lot of issues. Do you remember Allan Jakovich?
There is potential to disenchant the existing playing list or parts of it.

He also takes salary, a list spot and probably a quality draft pick that could be used on someone identified as a long term preospect. Dalrymple is going pretty well at that.

Any idea whether Brett Goodes will fall back into his former player welfare manager role? Could be a handy bloke to help Bennell transition.

[Bulldog Joe]

Any idea whether Brett Goodes will fall back into his former player welfare manager role? Could be a handy bloke to help Bennell transition.

Have not seen anything on Brett Goodes in relation to that. I thought Prismall was on the payroll in that category.

[Doc26]

Any idea whether Brett Goodes will fall back into his former player welfare manager role? Could be a handy bloke to help Bennell transition.

It's a really good point. He seemed to be quite regarded when he was previously working in that capacity with us.

[1eyedog]

It's a really good point. He seemed to be quite regarded when he was previously working in that capacity with us.

I'm happy to have Bennell I think, but we'd need to set some pretty strict guidelines. I almost think he needs a full time player welfare manager for his first year at the club, and it makes sense for that person to be Indigenous. I think a longer-term deal is a risky proposition, but if we're right into him it may be the only way to attract him.

For mine I just can't see him coming to Melbourne. I actually think coming to Melbourne is a risky proposition in itself for him.

[1eyedog]

What is the risk? If he is no good, you then get rid of him.

You won't get him for a one or two year deal so how much do you want him? There will be a club prepared to offer 3 years and that's pretty risky. If it doesn't work out it could be risky a million times over.

[bornadog]

You won't get him for a one or two year deal so how much do you want him? There will be a club prepared to offer 3 years and that's pretty risky. If it doesn't work out it could be risky a million times over.

the contract would have to be structured such that any criminal activity (for example), or other stupid acts nullifies the contract.

On Bulldogjoes point about Libba coming back, I see Bennell as an outside player being fed the ball by Wallis, Libba and Bont.

Anyway, does anyone really know Bennell's story?

[Twodogs]

the contract would have to be structured such that any criminal activity (for example), or other stupid acts nullifies the contract.

On Bulldogjoes point about Libba coming back, I see Bennell as an outside player being fed the ball by Wallis, Libba and Bont.

Anyway, does anyone really know Bennell's story?


It's still developing.

[Ghost Dog]

Source: Wikipedia

AFL career

He made his AFL debut in Round 2, 2011 in the Gold Coast Suns inaugural AFL match against Carlton at The Gabba. Bennell was dropped for disciplinary reasons after the Gold Coast's round 3 clash. He returned to the team the following week but was again dropped two weeks later. He spent numerous weeks playing for the reserves team and returned to the seniors team for their round 11 clash against the West Coast Eagles in Perth. Bennell would then skip a compulsory training session by staying in Perth longer than allowed by the club. He was once again dropped from the team and sent back to the reserves team. He showed enough in the reserves to earn a recall to the seniors team in round 15 but the Sun's leadership group did not allow him back into the team. The following week he returned against the Sydney Swans and soon after began living with team mate Karmichael Hunt. He would not miss another game and finish the 2011 season with 14 goals from 14 games.

Bennell's 2012 season would be a stark difference to his inaugural AFL year, he would play in all 22 games of the year. He would also end the year with 25 goals and finish second in the club's best and fairest behind Gary Ablett, Jr.

Bennell was dropped from the Suns' team in May 2015 after drinking alcohol during after a game despite the team agreeing to avoid alcohol for the week.[5]

In July 2015, The Courier-Mail and Herald Sun newspapers both published a photo on their front pages, allegedly showing Bennell preparing to inhale a white powder, presumed to be an illicit drug. The photo was reported taken in Launceston, Tasmania in March 2013. The photo was published just days after Bennell's former teammate and housemate, Karmichael Hunt's statement to the police, detailing Hunt's use of cocaine with unnamed Gold Coast players, was leaked to the press.[6] Bennell was not selected to play the next game for Gold Coast.[7] On 7 September 2015, after a drunken altercation in Surfers Paradise, the Gold Coast Suns revealed that Bennell would be traded.[8]

Sounds like he's had a truckload of chances to go straight.

[bornadog]

Sounds like he's had a truckload of chances to go straight.

Wow dropped once or twice for drinking alcohol, he has been a bad boy.

[Greystache]

Wow dropped once or twice for drinking alcohol, he has been a bad boy.

Plus a month suspension for drug use, following on the back of a police investigation into him and team mates earlier in the year for drug use and distribution, following warnings from the club 2 years earlier for drug use, and now being sacked after being charged a month after returning from suspension. Nah he's just a good kid who's been unlucky.

Given the number of times he'd have been given chances before any action was taken against him by the club he's clearly a recidivist who has shown no signs of wanting to change, outside of the occasional cheap word or two.

[bornadog]

Plus a month suspension for drug use, following on the back of a police investigation into him and team mates earlier in the year for drug use and distribution,

No charges laid by police.


sacked after being charged a month after returning from suspension.

Flipped a cigarette out of bouncers mouth, paid a fine. Hardly the biggest misdemeanour of all time.

Yes he has had issues, but we don't know the extent of what has happened and how bad his behaviour is. The press can exaggerate things to get a story on the front page.

The one thing I know is Mckenna let this culture happen and didn't pull players into line. No discipline at the club whilst he was there. He is a kid from a broken family thrust on to the Gold Coast at 17/18 years old and no one to discipline him and pull him into line.

Everything you have pointed out happens at all clubs. I haven't seen him lying in the gutter at 3 am with pills in his pocket as one of our own stars was.

He is only 22 and deserves another chance at making it and it is up to him now. Perhaps he won't make it, who knows, but from the outside looking in and without knowing everything, I would take the chance.

[Greystache]

No charges laid by police.

So he must be innocent then...


Flipped a cigarette out of bouncers mouth, paid a fine. Hardly the biggest misdemeanour of all time.

And then arrested and fined for public drunkeness. The first weekend of the off season. Only weeks after being suspended for a month for drug and alcohol offences.


Yes he has had issues, but we don't know the extent of what has happened and how bad his behaviour is. The press can exaggerate things to get a story on the front page.

He's been sacked by his own club. A club that has no interest in culture. So it's obviously at least as bad as reported, and in reality probably much worse.


The one thing I know is Mckenna let this culture happen and didn't pull players into line. No discipline at the club whilst he was there. He is a kid from a broken family thrust on to the Gold Coast at 17/18 years old and no one to discipline him and pull him into line.

And if anything it's gotten worse since Mckenna left. He's been pulled into line numerous times for no result. Official warnings, club suspensions, nothing has changed him in any way. His team mates have been quoted several times how they try to keep him in line but he won't listen.


Everything you have pointed out happens at all clubs. I haven't seen him lying in the gutter at 3 am with pills in his pocket as one of our own stars was.

Probably because you don't live on the Gold Coast. He instead ends up on the front page of the paper snorting lines of amphetamines.

Funny how Libba gets in trouble once and he has to spend the rest of his career proving to some people he's completely reformed, yet a player like Bennell gets in trouble time after time after time and he's just a good kid who's been unlucky. I would've though Libba is far closer to that description.


He is only 22 and deserves another chance at making it and it is up to him now. Perhaps he won't make it, who knows, but from the outside looking in and without knowing everything, I would take the chance.

I don't think he deserves another chance at all, he's had numerous chances. If another club wants to give him further chances that's up to them, but he doesn't automatically deserve them. I'm more than comfortable if the club doesn't want him given he's a likely to be arrested and embarrass the club and it's sponsors before round one as not.

[GVGjr]

No charges laid by police.

Flipped a cigarette out of bouncers mouth, paid a fine. Hardly the biggest misdemeanour of all time.



BAD, sorry I'm going to bombard you with some questions.

Rocket isn't a fool, if it's as simple as that why has he been sacked for that issue?
If he deserves another chance why aren't the Suns under the new coach the ones to give it too him?
Why aren't the Suns backing their culture to turn him around? It's not like Rocket has had him for 3 years and his messages aren't getting across like they didn't for Hill and Everitt. When one of AFL's most senior coaches has given up on a very talented player after just one season the alarm bells ring loud to me.

I get that he is a very talented player but why should we be the ones to trade for him? How confident are you that he would thrive in our environment?

[bulldogtragic]

What we've showed with Libba this year is why he might come to us and why he might thrive with us. We didn't let the Damien Barrett bitch slap smack Libba down, nor the media after it. We got on the front foot, supported him publicly and privately, got him the help needed. We understood why it was happening, but didn't just accept was is happening. We took action to help Libba and supported him to a better place. This culture of support with discipline at all levels of the club should be inviting proposition for him. Playing in a positive young side, presumably winning games and getting involved in grass root work might be just what he needs to reset. I think we've got the set up to be an outstanding club for him on and off field. If he passes Bevos say so, then I'd love him to come out and pick us and then look at the best trade possible.

[Dancin' Douggy]

For me, and I started this thread with a burning yearning a deep inside of me to get Bennell.

I hear both sides of the debate. Yes, there is SOME risk involved.

But Bennell is and out and out gun. GUN.

There is some risk involved, but every draft choice, and every trade, and every delisting is a risk.

We took J. Grant over Dangerfield. We took Everett over Riewoldt. Risk, reward, risk, reward. It's a never ending cycle.
We traded Liam Jones for a pick that got us Caleb Daniel. Risk, reward.

We took Stringer after a horrific leg break. Risk, reward. Man what a pay off.

I think Bennell is worth the risk IF the deal is right.

What if we somehow turn Talia in to Bennell. (with tweaks and steak knives) That is a MASSIVE win.
But....... I do have to say......... If anyone thinks that one player could be so evil and corrupt and all powerful to bring down the entire playing group and the 'culture' of the club. I think that's nonsense.

[bornadog]

BAD, sorry I'm going to bombard you with some questions.

Rocket isn't a fool, if it's as simple as that why has he been sacked for that issue?
If he deserves another chance why aren't the Suns under the new coach the ones to give it too him?
Why aren't the Suns backing their culture to turn him around? It's not like Rocket has had him for 3 years and his messages aren't getting across like they didn't for Hill and Everitt. When one of AFL's most senior coaches has given up on a very talented player after just one season the alarm bells ring loud to me.

I get that he is a very talented player but why should we be the ones to trade for him? How confident are you that he would thrive in our environment?

There is more to it than just some alcohol fueled nights out and breaking curfews. Anyhow can't say too much more about him, but I doubt we will be chasing him so it's a moot point.

The point I was trying to make is Bennell is no different than many players at many clubs, except the circumstances at GC, setting up on the Gold Coast with young players away from their family hasn't helped his situation and he was allowed to run bit wild.

He is better off away from that environment, and hope he takes his chance and doesn't fluff it up as he has talent to burn.

[GVGjr]

There is more to it than just some alcohol fueled nights out and breaking curfews. Anyhow can't say too much more about him, but I doubt we will be chasing him so it's a mute point.



Is it fair to say you are privy to more information than most?

[bornadog]

Is it fair to say you are privy to more information than most?

That is fair to say.

[GVGjr]

That is fair to say.

Thanks, it became obvious when a few of you were all singing the same pro Harley song at the same time and of course that had a few of us speculating on the source.

[Ghost Dog]

Don't really know about him, so read some stats (http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/115765/Harley-BENNELL).

Missed 4 weeks with ongoing calf issue.
In 7 games was not influential despite stats.
V WC in round 7, 13 of 20 kicks missed the target.

The 40 and 37 possession games perked my interest before realising it was NEAFL.
Plus all the off field stuff.
GD needs more convincing.
But he is improving. In 2014 he missed 6 games with the calf.

What has he honestly done to deserve to be at the kennel?

[LostDoggy]

Media reporting Bennell will end up at Freo. Gee, if they can get his head right a core midfield group of Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow and Bennell is seriously big and powerful. Supported by runners Neale, Hill, Pearce, Walters, DeBoer, Weller. Impressive. Just need forwards to kick it to now.

[bornadog]

Media reporting Bennell will end up at Freo. Gee, if they can get his head right a core midfield group of Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow and Bennell is seriously big and powerful. Supported by runners Neale, Hill, Pearce, Walters, DeBoer, Weller. Impressive. Just need forwards to kick it to now.

Fyfe will be playing more in the forward line next year. They do need a big forward as Pavlich on last legs.

[Greystache]

Moving back to the wild west, this should go well.

[Templeton31]

Moving back to the wild west, this should go well.

worked for Colin Sylvia.

[bulldogtragic]

Cool, so we can stop talking about him.

[bornadog]

cool, so we can stop talking about him.
thread closed :D

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yep.Looks like the dream is dead.

NEXT!!!!...............

[Twodogs]

He hasn't signed anything yet.

[Ghost Dog]

He hasn't signed anything yet.

Hope he doesn't sleep in and skip his medical.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Moving back to the wild west, this should go well.

Can we open the market for when he'll stuff up?

I'm putting my money on December.

[dog town]

When does he move over? Will be in the news not long after IMO. Gutsy by Freo given that every other club said no.

[bulldogtragic]

Can we open the market for when he'll stuff up?

I'm putting my money on December.
October 2015 please.

[bornadog]

Can we open the market for when he'll stuff up?

I'm putting my money on December.

He is worth the risk. If it doesn't work out then piss him off. If it works, they have a potential A grader.

[Greystache]

I'll split the difference and say November. Mostly because that's when he'll be at the club and can start missing sessions or turning up under the influence.

[Sedat]

When does he move over? Will be in the news not long after IMO. Gutsy by Freo given that every other club said no.
They do need an injection of talent - so many plonkers in a top 4 team. Risk worth taking for a team like Freo, as they are almost last chance saloon next year under Lyon.

[bornadog]

They do need an injection of talent - so many plonkers in a top 4 team. Risk worth taking for a team like Freo, as they are almost last chance saloon next year under Lyon.

If they pickup McCarthy as well could be a good year for them.

[LostDoggy]

If they pickup McCarthy as well could be a good year for them.

What's interesting about that from our perspective is that Freo have to come up with draft picks as trade for these 2, particularly given their first round will be around 17, and GWS will need more than that for starters. At some point they are going to have to release a valuable player or 2. I hope we are pushing hard for an Apeness or an Alex Pearce because an opportunity may be there.

[LostDoggy]

They do need an injection of talent - so many plonkers in a top 4 team. Risk worth taking for a team like Freo, as they are almost last chance saloon next year under Lyon.

Last chance saloon doors swung shut a few weeks ago. Lyon will never win a flag. This has been proven time and time again.

[Happy Days]

Last chance saloon doors swung shut a few weeks ago. Lyon will never win a flag. This has been proven time and time again.

Bullshit. The ball bounces a different way to the rapist and he has at least one.

The derision of Lyon as a coach is beginning to become asinine. What other coach could get his team comfortably to the top of the ladder, be live in a preliminary final until the 4th quarter, and have consistent, sustained success for near on a decade, and still be considered to not be getting the job done?

Just because it isn't pretty to watch, doesn't mean it isn't masterful. Lyon is a magnificent coach who has extracted the absolute most out of every situation he's been thrust into.

[Twodogs]

Last chance saloon doors swung shut a few weeks ago. Lyon will never win a flag. This has been proven time and time again.

I don't think so either. His best chance he blew when he left Luke Ball on the bench for almost the entire last quarter of a Grand Final.

[F'scary]

Bullshit. The ball bounces a different way to the rapist and he has at least one.



The rape charges were dropped.

[Greystache]

Bullshit. The ball bounces a different way to the rapist and he has at least one.

The derision of Lyon as a coach is beginning to become asinine. What other coach could get his team comfortably to the top of the ladder, be live in a preliminary final until the 4th quarter, and have consistent, sustained success for near on a decade, and still be considered to not be getting the job done?

Just because it isn't pretty to watch, doesn't mean it isn't masterful. Lyon is a magnificent coach who has extracted the absolute most out of every situation he's been thrust into.

The point that was being made is he won't win one, not that he could've but didn't. Fremantle's window is shutting if not shut, they might finish top 4 again next year, but seem unlikely to challenge. Lyon doesn't regenerate, and he doesn't develop youth, so unless he has a team ready to contend then it's unlikely a club would keep him around. Is another club likely to take him on knowing he's missed narrowly twice before, and will burn the furniture the pursuit, requiring a long and hard rebuild afterwards? Maybe, but just as likely maybe not.

If he doesn't get the right club to take the punt on him then there's every liklihood he won't win one.

[Happy Days]

The rape charges were dropped.

The indecent assaulting piece of human filth then.

[Happy Days]

The point that was being made is he won't win one, not that he could've but didn't. Fremantle's window is shutting if not shut, they might finish top 4 again next year, but seem unlikely to challenge. Lyon doesn't regenerate, and he doesn't develop youth, so unless he has a team ready to contend then it's unlikely a club would keep him around. Is another club likely to take him on knowing he's missed narrowly twice before, and will burn the furniture the pursuit, requiring a long and hard rebuild afterwards? Maybe, but just as likely maybe not.

If he doesn't get the right club to take the punt on him then there's every liklihood he won't win one.

Agree he torched St Kilda, but is Fremantle's list really in that bad shape? He's gotten games into younger players like Neale and Sutcliffe, who are already seriously good players, as well as prospects like Taberner, Sheridan, and Pearce. Young-ish guys like Spurr, Walters, Ibbotson and Hill have really improved, and if they can land Bennell and McCarthy, their list, alongside Weller, has some really exciting young talent. Plus Fyfe is only 24.

I don't think their window is shutting at all.

[LostDoggy]

Bullshit. The ball bounces a different way to the rapist and he has at least one.

The derision of Lyon as a coach is beginning to become asinine. What other coach could get his team comfortably to the top of the ladder, be live in a preliminary final until the 4th quarter, and have consistent, sustained success for near on a decade, and still be considered to not be getting the job done?

Just because it isn't pretty to watch, doesn't mean it isn't masterful. Lyon is a magnificent coach who has extracted the absolute most out of every situation he's been thrust into.

Thanks Greystache for pointing out for me, what I meant. But I'll also try to defend against the assumption Happy Days made, just for good measure. Finals football, as we all painfully know, has no place for lucky bounces. Lyon-coached teams simply do not put the points on the scoreboard to give themselves any room for error. From a purely tactical and theoretical point of view, yes, I believe Lyon is a brilliant chess player. Footballers aren't chess pieces.

Fremantle have some serious talent. So did the Saints. Unfortunately, any natural individual instincts they have are quickly rubbed out in favour of the collective.

If it's of any interest, I hold the same opinion of Roos. His "lucky moment" simply came off for him in Leaping Leo's mark.


The rape charges were dropped.

He pleaded to a lesser charge. Rape is an incredibly difficult charge to prove before a jury. Not guilty beyond all reasonable doubt does not equal innocent.

(I'm not a lawyer, I live with a prosecuting barrister, and that's the vast impression I get from many, many rape charges that get off because it boils down to he-said-she-said.)


Agree he torched St Kilda, but is Fremantle's list really in that bad shape? He's gotten games into younger players like Neale and Sutcliffe, who are already seriously good players, as well as prospects like Taberner, Sheridan, and Pearce. Young-ish guys like Spurr, Walters, Ibbotson and Hill have really improved, and if they can land Bennell and McCarthy, their list, alongside Weller, has some really exciting young talent. Plus Fyfe is only 24.

I don't think their window is shutting at all.

I wonder how their list will look, however, by the time he gains "full support of the board" or gets poached by Essendon.

I'm really hoping Fremantle take Bennell. Reckon it'd be beautiful. He could hit the town with Dawson and spoil Lyon's love-child. :D

[F'scary]

He pleaded to a lesser charge. Rape is an incredibly difficult charge to prove before a jury. Not guilty beyond all reasonable doubt does not equal innocent.

(I'm not a lawyer, I live with a prosecuting barrister, and that's the vast impression I get from many, many rape charges that get off because it boils down to he-said-she-said.)





He pleaded guilty to an indecent assault charge that was based on "he-said-she-said" evidence as you term it.

Innocent until proven guilty is the presumption at law.

[GVGjr]

He is worth the risk. If it doesn't work out then piss him off. If it works, they have a potential A grader.
That is a simplistic approach and there is a lot more too it than that. It could easily be as big as a distraction like Akermanis was and it could potentially flow in to issues with other players.
It's not a cattle drive.

[F'scary]

That is a simplistic approach and there is a lot more too it than that. It could easily be as big as a distraction like Akermanis was and it could potentially flow in to issues with other players.
It's not a cattle drive.

He could cause a lot of damage on the way through.

[boydogs]

is Fremantle's list really in that bad shape?

From our 2015 list, we had 5 players who played 3 games or less in their career. Freo had 13

[Happy Days]

From our 2015 list, we had 5 players who played 3 games or less in their career. Freo had 13

I think that's semantics. Included in that are guys like Darley, Cordy, Goodes, Pearce who all totally sucked.

The REAL kings of not developing players are the Swans. Their total disregard for the ramifications of the salray cap has lead them to a ying yang list of overpriced guns (?) and absolute nobodies to make up the numbers; I don't even think half the guys on their list exist, and how about the blatant arrogance of playing Heeney under 2 names against GWS.

[boydogs]

I think that's semantics. Included in that are guys like Darley, Cordy, Goodes, Pearce who all totally sucked.

At least we know they suck at AFL level to turn them over. Freo aren't giving their kids a chance to make a call on them

[Remi Moses]

He pleaded guilty to an indecent assault charge that was based on "he-said-she-said" evidence as you term it.

Innocent until proven guilty is the presumption at law.

Might be the presumption of law, but they buried the case( Stkilda fan lead the case)
Smelt to high heaven

[F'scary]

Might be the presumption of law, but they buried the case( Stkilda fan lead the case)
Smelt to high heaven

true.

[bornadog]

Manager says a 3 year contract is what they are aiming for.

[LostDoggy]

Manager says a 3 year contract is what they are aiming for.

If I were Harley's management, I'd be paying more attention to the breach clauses of the contract. Length of contract doesn't mean much unless you see the term out.

[westbulldog]

too many problems we don't need, not with a barge pole !

[GVGjr]

Richmond have shared that they believe he disrespected their club.

Asked on NAB AFL Trade Radio on Thursday if he was disappointed with how Bennell presented himself, Richardson said, "Yeah, we were.

"We flew him over from Perth to find out a little bit more about him and where he's at, and we don't feel he gave that process a great deal of respect.

"Nor did his management, and that's why we moved on."

It doesn't sound like he or his management were keen on going to Richmond.

[GVGjr]

It's sad to hear and read about Bennells recent struggles with injury and behaviour but I had a read of this thread that had very contrasting views on if Bennell was worth trading for. There was a significant push for him to be traded for but the concerns raised at the time still seem valid.

To me this discussion underlines that the process Dalrymple and J-Mac goes through to enure we get high quality types at our club is well worth it and if we miss a few talented but potentially troubled players along the way I can live with that.

How confident are people that he can come back and make a decent go of it?

[bornadog]

Sounds like hasn't made the effort he should have made, ie off field.
It is looking like more and more he won be able to renew is AFL career

[AndrewP6]

It's sad to hear and read about Bennells recent struggles with injury and behaviour but I had a read of this thread that had very contrasting views on if Bennell was worth trading for. There was a significant push for him to be traded for but the concerns raised at the time still seem valid.

To me this discussion underlines that the process Dalrymple and J-Mac goes through to enure we get high quality types at our club is well worth it and if we miss a few talented but potentially troubled players along the way I can live with that.

How confident are people that he can come back and make a decent go of it?
Not at all confident. Had too many bumps in the road already I think.

[westdog54]

After the incident in the WAFL match I don't think he'll play again.

He's unprofessional. If he gave a *!*!*!*! about his career he'd have pulled his head in a long time ago.

[Bulldog4life]

It's sad to hear and read about Bennells recent struggles with injury and behaviour but I had a read of this thread that had very contrasting views on if Bennell was worth trading for. There was a significant push for him to be traded for but the concerns raised at the time still seem valid.

To me this discussion underlines that the process Dalrymple and J-Mac goes through to enure we get high quality types at our club is well worth it and if we miss a few talented but potentially troubled players along the way I can live with that.

How confident are people that he can come back and make a decent go of it?

The push on this board to get Dayle Garlett was greater though G.

[GVGjr]

The push on this board to get Dayle Garlett was greater though G.

Dayle isn't still in the news or on a playing list but yes there was a fair old push to get him as well

[Topdog]

I believe he is still in jail.

We took Fuller with 44 which is what people were willing to risk so we haven't exactly fared any better than we would have by taken Garlett.

[bornadog]

After the incident in the WAFL match I don't think he'll play again.

He's unprofessional. If he gave a *!*!*!*! about his career he'd have pulled his head in a long time ago.

He has some very personal issues, and until he sorts them out, it will be difficult for him to get a game.

[Mofra]

I believe he is still in jail.

We took Fuller with 44 which is what people were willing to risk so we haven't exactly fared any better than we would have by taken Garlett.
Yes, my memory at the time is that people thought a later pick was worth the risk but certainly not a pick in the first two rounds.

[Sedat]

Dayle isn't still in the news or on a playing list but yes there was a fair old push to get him as well
In hindsight, Hawthorn probably wish they didn't burn a 2nd round pick on him considering the current paucity of young talent on their list.

[Doc26]

It's sad to hear and read about Bennells recent struggles with injury and behaviour but I had a read of this thread that had very contrasting views on if Bennell was worth trading for. There was a significant push for him to be traded for but the concerns raised at the time still seem valid.

To me this discussion underlines that the process Dalrymple and J-Mac goes through to enure we get high quality types at our club is well worth it and if we miss a few talented but potentially troubled players along the way I can live with that.

How confident are people that he can come back and make a decent go of it?

If you can believe Ross Lyon, Bennell, like Deledio currently, he has been severely, and continues to be, hampered by his calf.

It's a bit chicken and egg for mine, with his constant calf issues playing a role in separating him from all that he knows / loves coupled with his lack of mental strength to give his body the best chance of repair.

If somewhere through this he can get his calf issues resolved, and then get on the park with some consistency he may still make it. The clock must be at about 5 mins. to midnight with him.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think he will be another Indigenous talent lost in the system.

Just my opinion but going from struggling at the gold coast to moving back to Perth, not sure
that would help him much either.

[Throughandthrough]

I think he will be another Indigenous talent lost in the system.

Just my opinion but going from struggling at the gold coast to moving back to Perth, not sure
that would help him much either.


Plenty of non indigenous players have had problems as well

[westdog54]

In hindsight, Hawthorn probably wish they didn't burn a 2nd round pick on him considering the current paucity of young talent on their list.

Wasn't he a 2nd round Rookie draft pick?

[Topdog]

Wasn't he a 2nd round Rookie draft pick?

nah it was about pick 36

[GVGjr]

Bennell is back in the new again for the wrong reasons

In short the article starts off with the following:

"TROUBLE-PLAGUED Docker Harley Bennell’s playing future is hanging by a thread after he failed to turn up to training, just hours after he was filmed being thrown out of a nightclub"

I've had another read of this thread and there was some very good discussion on if we should have tried to get him to the club.

Would anyone here still stick with him if you were in charge at Fremantle?
I get clubs need to be patient and supportive of players but at what point should they be allowed to say enough is enough?

Perhaps Fremantle have invested to much into Bennell to let him go but it must be disappointed that he can't keep himself out of trouble.

[bornadog]

I was all for giving him a second chance at a new club, but obviously it hasn't worked out. Freo have given him two years to get his act together, I don't believe the BS about his calves.

So in answer to the above question - Freo should cut their losses.

[Bulldog Joe]

Freo have a real quandary as they have a large investment, but they need to make a judgement on the future value of the asset.

I am certainly happy he is not on our list.

[Mofra]

Colin Silvia rule - better off playing one list spot short than having him in their side

[Axe Man]

I don't know any particular details about Bennell's situation but I can't help wondering if WA was the worst place for him to go. Back hanging around with potential bad influences from his youth? No idea if that is part of the problem or whether he is just someone who would mess up where ever he is.

[Twodogs]

Freo have a real quandary as they have a large investment, but they need to make a judgement on the future value of the asset.

I am certainly happy he is not on our list.

Did the Stringer experience sway your thoughts one way or another? I'm certainly a lot less confident in our ability to turn problem behaviour around.


Colin Silvia rule - better off playing one list spot short than having him in their side


Yup. Better to have an empty house than a bad tenant.

[Bulldog Joe]

Did the Stringer experience sway your thoughts one way or another? I'm certainly a lot less confident in our ability to turn problem behaviour around.



I was always in the camp of Bennell being too high risk.

[GVGjr]

Bennell survives again.

FREMANTLE have decided against tearing up Harley Bennell’s AFL contract despite the troubled midfielder’s latest off-field indiscretion.

Bennell’s future was hanging by a thread after video emerged of him wrestling security staff on Sunday night at Fremantle’s club 189.

The 24-year-old was intoxicated and failed to turn up the next morning to training.

Given Bennell’s chequered history, he was facing the real prospect of being dumped.

But the Dockers have decided to give him another chance.

Fremantle released a statement on Tuesday afternoon, saying Bennell had been banished to WAFL club Peel Thunder for eight weeks as part of his punishment. He has also been fined $15,000 ($5000 suspended), and ordered to undergo more counselling.


As talented as he is, I'm glad we didn't get sucked into chasing him.

[Twodogs]

I was always in the camp of Bennell being too high risk.


As talented as he is, I'm glad we didn't get sucked into chasing him.

I'm glad he's not on our list too. He's on self destruct.

[westdog54]

Freo have a real quandary as they have a large investment, but they need to make a judgement on the future value of the asset.

I am certainly happy he is not on our list.

There's a term in Economics relevant to this problem: Sunk costs.

It refers to what you have already spent/are required to spend on something being irrelevant to decisions about the future.

i.e. What you've already spent/invested on something should not be factored into whether you continue to spend/invest if you know its going to go nowhere.

Fremantle should forget about what they've already lost by taking Bennell on board. If he hasn't run out of chances now he never will.

[Twodogs]

There's a term in Economics relevant to this problem: Sunk costs.

It refers to what you have already spent/are required to spend on something being irrelevant to decisions about the future.

i.e. What you've already spent/invested on something should not be factored into whether you continue to spend/invest if you know its going to go nowhere.

Fremantle should forget about what they've already lost by taking Bennell on board. If he hasn't run out of chances now he never will.


Yep. Agreed. They have to stop chasing their losses like a gambler desperately trying to make good.

[Bulldog Joe]

There's a term in Economics relevant to this problem: Sunk costs.

It refers to what you have already spent/are required to spend on something being irrelevant to decisions about the future.

i.e. What you've already spent/invested on something should not be factored into whether you continue to spend/invest if you know its going to go nowhere.

Fremantle should forget about what they've already lost by taking Bennell on board. If he hasn't run out of chances now he never will.

You are correct in thinking money already spent is irrelevant. That is not recoverable.

It doesn't cost any more to walk away!!

Fremantle need to make decisions around what it will cost going forward and if it is worth the risk to continue.

[comrade]

The standard you ignore is the standard you accept. IMO, Freo aren't winning anything anytime soon.

[ledge]

There's a term in Economics relevant to this problem: Sunk costs.

It refers to what you have already spent/are required to spend on something being irrelevant to decisions about the future.

i.e. What you've already spent/invested on something should not be factored into whether you continue to spend/invest if you know its going to go nowhere.

Fremantle should forget about what they've already lost by taking Bennell on board. If he hasn't run out of chances now he never will.

Woolworths / master scenario .. Woolworths wanted another 3 years with masters but the shareholders said no we have already pumped to much money into it no more, thus the end of masters.

[Twodogs]

Woolworths / master scenario .. Woolworths wanted another 3 years with masters but the shareholders said no we have already pumped to much money into it no more, thus the end of masters.

Correct. And Woolies was losing money hand over fist on Masters.

[ledge]

Correct. And Woolies was losing money hand over fist on Masters.

Last few weeks is the first time my shares have gone up since masters closed , it's been a long haul back.
I actually want them to stay low as I buy some every week.

[Twodogs]

The standard you ignore is the standard you accept. IMO, Freo aren't winning anything anytime soon.


Correct. I tell my kids this-if you walk past then you agree with what you see-so often that I would be a hypocrite not to agree.

[Twodogs]

Last few weeks is the first time my shares have gone up since masters closed , it's been a long haul back.
I actually want them to stay low as I buy some every week.

Bloody share owning bourgeois!;)

[The Adelaide Connection]

There's a term in Economics relevant to this problem: Sunk costs.

It refers to what you have already spent/are required to spend on something being irrelevant to decisions about the future.

i.e. What you've already spent/invested on something should not be factored into whether you continue to spend/invest if you know its going to go nowhere.

Fremantle should forget about what they've already lost by taking Bennell on board. If he hasn't run out of chances now he never will.

There is also the "How good are they?" factor. The better the player, the more chances they get and the more their clubs and supporters are willing to put up with their bs. Bennell is a seriously talented player and "if" they can get him out on the field he is IMO Brownlow good. I'd maybe stick him in the "seemingly crap bloke/loose unit, seriously good player" pigeon hole with Dusty, Stringer, Cousins, Carey, etc.

On a side note, I was initially stunned by the Stringer reports and adamant we couldn't get rid of him but as it played out I quickly shifted. If we were desperate to get rid of someone with his upside he clearly had crossed his threshold of how good versus issues.

[GVGjr]

I commend Freo for standing him down for 8 weeks and implementing a fine. It's a strong final warning that can be sent to player.
He basically has to pull his head in, and get as fit as he can or he opens the door for them to sack him.

As a club they've had issues with player culture for a while now and they would be well within their rights to sack a player to send a very strong message to the playing group.

As Comrade mentioned it's now time for them to not walk past issues with culture.

[Twodogs]

I commend Freo for standing him down for 8 weeks and implementing a fine. It's a strong final warning that can be sent to player.
He basically has to pull his head in, and get as fit as he can or he opens the door for them to sack him.

As a club they've had issues with player culture for a while now and they would be well within their rights to sack a player to send a very strong message to the playing group.

As Comrade mentioned it's now time for them to not walk past issues with culture.

It must be, what, the third or fourth final warning he has got. It's time for Freo to shit or get off the can.

[westdog54]

Woolworths / master scenario .. Woolworths wanted another 3 years with masters but the shareholders said no we have already pumped to much money into it no more, thus the end of masters.

Correct.

Masters was an act of lunacy from start to finish.

How they ever thought they were going to get a start-up to go head to head with Bunnings with little to no brand pwer backing them in their products is beyond me.

For every year they tried to make Masters work they set an exceptionally strong company back three years.


The standard you ignore is the standard you accept. IMO, Freo aren't winning anything anytime soon.

Its an excellent mantra to live by.

[Bulldog4life]

It must be, what, the third or fourth final warning he has got. It's time for Freo to shit or get off the can.

He wouldn't have lasted nearly this long under Bevo.

[Twodogs]

He wouldn't have lasted nearly this long under Bevo.


That's the lesson we can take away from this pre-season.

Don't *!*!*!*! Bevo around. It doesn't matter who you THINK you are your arse will end up around your ankles.

[GVGjr]

He wouldn't have lasted nearly this long under Bevo.

I'm not so sure, I suspect you are right but I was told that Bevo only got very serious with some of the players we were having issues with after that loss to Port at Ballarat. Once finals were out of reach he changed his tune.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm not so sure, I suspect you are right but I was told that Bevo only got very serious with some of the players we were having issues with after that loss to Port at Ballarat. Once finals were out of reach he changed his tune.

A mate of mine posed that very question.

I'd like to think we'd have moved him on by this point, but hard to say with certainty. The Stringer decision (different in many ways, but similar in some) suggests Harley wouldn't be with us.

He's such a talent at his best, will be a shame if he's lost to the game however appears inevitable.

[bornadog]

Freo is about to delist him, but Ross says he hopes he is picked up by another club?

[Hotdog60]

Who would what to, risk is much greater than the reward.
He will go down in history as what could have been.

[bulldogtragic]

His calves are just no good. Forget anything else, he can't train for long periods and can't play with any consistency either. That's kind of important when looking at limited list spots, which is Freo's obvious position too. But all the best to him, sometimes footy can be cruel to talented kids with a disposition to injury (see Tom Williams).

[GVGjr]

Freo is about to delist him, but Ross says he hopes he is picked up by another club?

It might sound harsh and sorry for that but we dodged a bullet with him. There was concerted effort by a few here suggesting we should trade for him when he was being pushed from the Suns.

He never realised his potential even allowing for his injuries and some issues he struggled with.

Would anyone be interested in us picking him up?

[Axe Man]

If he could be sent to Germany or wherever to some medical guru to fix his calves then you would consider it, so long as his off field behaviour has been acceptable in recent times (it seems to have been?).

Our open desire to get some indigenous talent on the list could come into play. Probably a 100/1 shot of happening though.

[hujsh]

If he could be sent to Germany or wherever to some medical guru to fix his calves then you would consider it, so long as his off field behaviour has been acceptable in recent times (it seems to have been?).

Our open desire to get some indigenous talent on the list could come into play. Probably a 100/1 shot of happening though.

Yeah but if we're bringing in younger guys I think we have a responsibility to be sure the older blokes are 100% on the straight and narrow. If Bennell fits that then fantastic, I'm open to giving him a spot.

[bornadog]

I am happy to take the risk if we think is off field activity is ok. It is a risk, so was Sydney Stack. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[divvydan]

He just can't stay healthy enough to warrant a place on an AFL list. He's only 26, 27 later this year. If I was a club, I'd tell him to go play at the highest level he can physically manage, just enjoy playing football and if in doing so, he manages to play 15+ games with minimal calf issues, then I'd consider him at the end of next year. He's only played 2 AFL games for Freo in 4 years on their list, it's simply not enough to warrant a list spot.

[Bulldog4life]

Too risky for us on and off the field.

[mjp]

It is a risk, so was Sydney Stack. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

He’s about to have a baby (Harley) and is in a pretty good place off field.

Syd was never a risk.

[bornadog]

He’s about to have a baby (Harley) and is in a pretty good place off field.

Syd was never a risk.

Ok, perceived risk by recruiters.

[Axe Man]

If this latest surgery is successful would you give him a shot?

Bennell finds new calf guru, successful surgery identifies nerve issue (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-30/bennell-finds-new-calf-guru-successful-surgery-identifies-nerve-issue)

FORMER Docker and Sun Harley Bennell underwent surgery on his troublesome right calf in Brisbane last week as he bids to keep alive his AFL career.

Bennell officially parted ways with Fremantle a fortnight ago – after just two senior games in four seasons – but he hopes this latest operation will enable him to play consistently at the highest level.

The 26-year-old, who played 81 matches for Gold Coast, is back in Perth but will travel to Queensland again in the coming weeks to have further surgery on his left calf.

Renowned Geelong-based sports physiotherapist Peter Stanton, who helped remedy star Cat Tom Hawkins' back problems, is working closely with Bennell to solve his longstanding calf issues.

Stanton held leading roles at AFL clubs Brisbane and Geelong, was at the Australian Institute of Sport for a decade, attended three Olympic Games, and is considered a calf guru.

Bennell's surgery last week identified a nerve issue and involved removing muscle that was scarred and causing problems.

The operation was deemed a success.

Bennell previously sought treatment in Germany with world-leading expert Dr Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt in 2016, and also worked with a ballet physiotherapist last year.

He was adamant after his Dockers exit that he wanted to find a third AFL club to extend his career into a 10th season, and his form at WAFL level suggested he still had plenty to give.

"I'm not retiring at this stage," Bennell said at the time.

"I'm going to work really hard on rehabbing my calf injury with a view to giving myself the chance to have another crack at playing for an AFL club.

"I firmly believe that I am capable of getting back out there and playing at the highest level."

[bornadog]

Give him a basic salary with incentives and a clause about injuries. Let's do it

[bulldogtragic]

Give him a basic salary with incentives and a clause about injuries. Let's do it

I'd at least let our surgeons, medico's and VU examine his calf. If they think he's cooked, nothing ventured, nothing gained. If they think there's a shot he get back playing consistently, then we could pick him up as a DFA. Then one question could be, do we give Porter a one year extension on minimal money, or delist Porter and give that spot to Bennell for initially for one year on basic money. Ideally, no one would move on him and we offer a summer training opportunity to him and then all being good after an extended time pick him up via the SSP. Even less risk.

[Dancin' Douggy]

yes.

[The Doctor]

What if we were in prime position to get one of the Hill's or both from Freo as has been speculated?

I think their views would be very relevant.

[ratsmac]

Too risky for mine. He was talented but can he get back to that? Is he stable enough to take another injury let down if it occurred? There are just too many what if's with this bloke.

[GVGjr]

Too risky for mine. He was talented but can he get back to that? Is he stable enough to take another injury let down if it occurred? There are just too many what if's with this bloke.

Agreed, injury concerns and perhaps not as focused as he should be on football and to top it off it's been a long while since he's actually played some good footy make Bennell a highly questionable addition to the team in my opinion.

[Go_Dogs]

Unbelievable talent.

Will probably end up at Richmond and win a Brownlow.

I’d certainly have a conversation and monitor his rehabilitation.

[GVGjr]

Unbelievable talent.

Will probably end up at Richmond and win a Brownlow.

I’d certainly have a conversation and monitor his rehabilitation.

The same things were being said when Eade sold his value to some of the members here.
There are just too many question marks for me but I'm admittedly very conservative in recruiting

[divvydan]

I don't really see anything in this most recent article to change the situation. Seems more like Bennell and his manager trying to keep Bennell's name out there in the hope of a club giving him another chance.

[Rocket Science]

"Bennell previously sought treatment in Germany with world-leading expert Dr Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt in 2016, and also worked with a ballet physiotherapist last year."

Good lord that must be the most German name in recorded history.


I don't really see anything in this most recent article to change the situation. Seems more like Bennell and his manager trying to keep Bennell's name out there in the hope of a club giving him another chance.

That's exactly how it reads.

[Twodogs]

"Bennell previously sought treatment in Germany with world-leading expert Dr Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt in 2016, and also worked with a ballet physiotherapist last year."


Surely that's a made up name? Nobody has the word 'fart' in their actual real name.

[bornadog]

Swans exploring the possibility of drafting him

[Dancin' Douggy]

I don't know what to believe about his off field behaviour, but it was long implied that his injuries weren't 'real' and he was being hidden away as punishment or to keep him away from blood tests etc.

Now it seems his injuries were definitely real so the rest may have been 'exaggerated' to try to find the right word.

I'd certainly be having a sniff around. He's a genuine star when he's on.

[divvydan]

My guess is he has injury issues and probably also drinks regularly which really messes with his body's ability to heal itself from the initial injuries. This can particularly be the case with nerve tissues which seems to be at least partially the issue for Bennell.

[bornadog]

Geelong now considering whether to take him. I wonder if we have had any thoughts on this?

[Twodogs]

Geelong now considering whether to take him. I wonder if we have had any thoughts on this?

I wouldn't have thought so. We don't really have the specialist infrastructure or resources to be dealing with his sort of issues and it's not the sort of thing that you want to be just giving the old college try and then hope for the best.

I think that we are a long way off being able to harness that sort of talent.

[Axe Man]

Geelong now considering whether to take him. I wonder if we have had any thoughts on this?

I recall reading an article recently that mentioned 6 or so clubs showing some interest but Power saying that we were not one of them.

[Sedat]

Geelong now considering whether to take him. I wonder if we have had any thoughts on this?
They already have Nakia Cockagtoo taking up permanent residency in the rehab group. Previously they also had guys like Cowan, McCarthy and Gregson spending 4+ years doing virtually nothing but rehab - no wonder they have no depth to properly challenge at the pointy end and rely on their top 3-4 players each and every week.

[macca]

They already have Nakia Cockagtoo taking up permanent residency in the rehab group. Previously they also had guys like Cowan, McCarthy and Gregson spending 4+ years doing virtually nothing but rehab - no wonder they have no depth to properly challenge at the pointy end and rely on their top 3-4 players each and every week.

Please do it Geelong !

[Bullies]

The guy is a star and there is nothing to lose. If we can afford to keep Roarke Smith on the list for a couple of years then I know who i would rather have. Take the risk.

[Bulldog Joe]

The guy is a star and there is nothing to lose. If we can afford to keep Roarke Smith on the list for a couple of years then I know who i would rather have. Take the risk.

Are you sure?

Roarke Smith has done more at AFL level in the last 4 years.

[bornadog]

The guy is a star and there is nothing to lose. If we can afford to keep Roarke Smith on the list for a couple of years then I know who i would rather have. Take the risk.


Are you sure?

Roarke Smith has done more at AFL level in the last 4 years.

I agree with Bullies, take the risk, why not. Roarke is just not up to it, he has lost his spring in his legs since the two ACLs and has no point of difference.

[Mofra]

I agree with Bullies, take the risk, why not.
Because calf injuries in older AFL players just never truly heal?

If he had the demeanour of Mother Teresa it wouldn't make a difference - I just don't know how he can get on the paddock for any length of time.

[bornadog]

Melbourne now interested in taking on Harley.

[The Pie Man]

Because calf injuries in older AFL players just never truly heal?

If he had the demeanour of Mother Teresa it wouldn't make a difference - I just don't know how he can get on the paddock for any length of time.

Well if they've fixed the nerve issue in said calves.....

I'd be all in

[Bulldog Revolution]

For me the Bennell ship has sailed - just hasnt been able to stay fit and get any continuity

I'd rather focus all our energies and efforts on Smith, Lipinski, Dale and Richards plus our draftees to add the pace and run to the side

[Twodogs]

Well if they've fixed the nerve issue in said calves.....

I'd be all in

But wouldn't the muscle development you would expect in the legs of a player of his age not be there because he hasn't been able to get the miles in. Once those muscles atrophy it's hard to catch up.

[GVGjr]

The guy is a star and there is nothing to lose. If we can afford to keep Roarke Smith on the list for a couple of years then I know who i would rather have. Take the risk.

There is actually plenty to lose

He hasn't played for over 4 years and he's clearly had trouble adjusting to the professional requirements
There has to be some serious doubts on his physical ability and focus to succeed

We have all witnessed how players if they aren't switched on can cause a premiership team to under perform for the following 2 years so why add that level of risk? The upside just isn't there for me

[Bulldog Joe]

I feel we would be far better taking a draftee than wasting time with Harley.

We have a good list. We do not need to add distractions

[Bullies]

Are you sure?

Roarke Smith has done more at AFL level in the last 4 years. Really. In 4 years R Smith has had one decent game in the wet in Adelaide.

[jeemak]

As an aside Roarke has had a couple of knee injuries that have been pretty serious. Whilst I don't rate him too highly the serious knee injuries count for something.

Also, I find it interesting that people look down on his excellent game against Port because it was wet. The reality is teams come closer together when the conditions are bad, but in most cases it's the good players that rise to the top like we saw with Bont on that very night.

So sure, be a detractor to output over time but don't piss on a good game he played.

[Bulldog Joe]

Really. In 4 years R Smith has had one decent game in the wet in Adelaide.

Can you tell me what Harley has done in that 4 years.

[bulldogtragic]

Hate to be cold water, we have no main list spots for him and we have no rookie list spots for him. We have picks 13 & 53 and no way either are used on him. So this thread is now a theoretical exercise unless someone up and quits our club.

[1eyedog]

Reckon we've done our DD and come to the conclusion that calf is fooked.

[Doc26]

Hate to be cold water, we have no main list spots for him and we have no rookie list spots for him. We have picks 13 & 53 and no way either are used on him. So this thread is now a theoretical exercise unless someone up and quits our club.

BT, have we committed to elevate one of our rookies to the main list that I’ve missed reading about?

I had assumed that we still had 3 live picks in the Nat Draft.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, have we committed to elevate one of our rookies to the main list that I’ve missed reading about?

I had assumed that we still had 3 live picks in the Nat Draft.

We have now contracted 5 rookies for 2020 and only have 4 rookie spots. Math says one of them must be elevated.

[Doc26]

We have now contracted 5 rookies for 2020 and only have 4 rookie spots. Math says one of them must be elevated.

Do you know the rookie status of Sweet and Khamis for 2020 BT? Haven’t heard anything from the Club.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you know the rookie status of Sweet and Khamis for 2020 BT? Haven’t heard anything from the Club.

Yep. Khamis got 2 years last year. Another member has detailed all that to me. Sweet signed on when Porter signed on for a year extension, from memory it was a joint media release. La Young extended in March. Roarke & Gardner extended today.

[Bulldog Joe]

We have now contracted 5 rookies for 2020 and only have 4 rookie spots. Math says one of them must be elevated.

It is possible to stay 1 short on the main list and have an additional rookie. I think we did that for 2015.

[Doc26]

It is possible to stay 1 short on the main list and have an additional rookie. I think we did that for 2015.

We are obliged to pick a minimum of 3 in the National Draft which might include elevating a rookie this year. I can’t see how we could go short in the main list as we’re chock a block.

[Bulldog Joe]

We are obliged to pick a minimum of 3 in the National Draft which might include elevating a rookie this year. I can’t see how we could go short in the main list as we’re chock a block.

Are we obliged to pick 3 on draft night or simply have 3 spots available?

[Bullies]

Can you tell me what Harley has done in that 4 years. When Bennell has got on the park he is dynamic. When Smith has got on the park he is - ordinary.