Ross Lyon and His Game Plans, Style

[bulldogtragic]

10 years and no silver ware, despite three grand finals and several home pre-lims. Surely he's now got to look at an overhaul. And perhaps a list turnover of impact.

[LostDoggy]

I think the list turnover is the main thing. He just doesn't have the forwards.

Talls generally are thin. Zac Dawson keeps getting a game as a key defender (!!) and Pavlich and Mayne are the key forwards. He's done well to get them this far really.

[Remi Moses]

I think his list is limited to a degree.
No other key forward options, and an ageing key back in Mcpharline .
They just haven't been able to get that big forward in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You simply can't win big games if you can't score. You can only defend for so long against other top rated sides. He deserves some serious heat for the way Freo continually go backwards when no switch is on, which then not only pushes them deeper and places them under extreme pressure, but it absolutely robs them of any opportunity to score. Hawthorn knew what they were going to do and subsequently set up for it.

Their list is average outside of their top 8-10, but I still think his approach to football is crap. It's not a 'coincidence' that he's failed in so many big finals.

[LostDoggy]

Overall I think Lyon is a very good coach. At StKilda he was a toepoke away from 1 flag and then 1 bad bounce from another. At Freo he's punched above his weight with a limited list.

Having said that, I reckon he is very rigid. Too many of his players seem to be 1 position specialists and his game plan does seem to be based on relentlessness rather than any form of a plan b. I wonder if he'll try a bit more diversity or flair in upcoming years.

[Sedat]

Aside from the regimented game plan that limits scoring opportunities, he clearly doesn't trust his lesser lights to execute their skills. Hence why a Tom Sheridan shits himself tonight and why a Tabener doesn't attack the ball as a key forward should.

He also doesn't trust youth at all. All successful clubs have talented young players coming through who are given big responsibility and invariably don't let the team down.

[KT31]

I rate him similar to Macca, its a negative game plan.
if Macca had the same cattle as Lyon we possibly could have made finals and than tapered out, if Beverage had the same cattle we would be competing next week.

[dog town]

Game plan needs a tweak but God himself couldn't have coached that side to a flag.

[LostDoggy]

He failed at St Kilda and left the next coach with a declining, aging list with very little young talent.

He landed the Fremantle job in their premiership window and has now failed again.

With Freo's list now declining, aging with very little young talent, who will be his next target?

Richmond?

[ratsmac]

Ross Lyon = zzzzzzz

[LostDoggy]

Overall I think Lyon is a very good coach. At StKilda he was a toepoke away from 1 flag and then 1 bad bounce from another. At Freo he's punched above his weight with a limited list.

Having said that, I reckon he is very rigid. Too many of his players seem to be 1 position specialists and his game plan does seem to be based on relentlessness rather than any form of a plan b. I wonder if he'll try a bit more diversity or flair in upcoming years.

He's a very average coach. Sure his numbers look good. He can make his boys all dance in a line. But inspiration? Hardly. A toe poke away is a mile away in a final. You need to bet the farm on something more solid than a wayward bounce. With the lists he's had at both St Kilda and Freo he should have been in a position of strength such that Lady Luck has little say. But he hasn't. He owes Sheridan a personal apology for a game style that eventuated in a hospital pass that will have that young bloke up nights for the rest of his days. Passing back like that with Rioli and Roughead lurking, even my Missus who has no great love or interest in footy was screaming out NOOOO but old mate Lyon just can't see the forest for the trees.

[Twodogs]

He failed at St Kilda and left the next coach with a declining, aging list with very little young talent.

He landed the Fremantle job in their premiership window and has now failed again.

With Freo's list now declining, aging with very little young talent, who will be his next target?

Richmond?

It's a pity Melbourne is engaged to Simon Goodwin because Lyon and Melbourne are made for each other. Ross and Gary. The yon boys together at last!

[Rocket Science]

He failed at St Kilda and left the next coach with a declining, aging list with very little young talent.

He landed the Fremantle job in their premiership window and has now failed again.

With Freo's list now declining, aging with very little young talent, who will be his next target?

Richmond?

Oooh. The Bombres.

You know you want it to happen.

[Rocco Jones]

Aside from the regimented game plan that limits scoring opportunities, he clearly doesn't trust his lesser lights to execute their skills. Hence why a Tom Sheridan shits himself tonight and why a Tabener doesn't attack the ball as a key forward should.

He also doesn't trust youth at all. All successful clubs have talented young players coming through who are given big responsibility and invariably don't let the team down.

Very well put.

Lyon is a tactical genius. In a game between an inferior side vs superior side, not sure there's every been a better coach to get the inferior side up. But there are limitations to this, Sedat you've hit the nail on the head.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Lyon extremely highly and think his way can win a premiership. History is fickle. A kinder ball bounce and he would have a flag.

In short. Lyon's way is outstanding to win a majority of your games and get you into the pointy end of the season. It comes unstuck around prelim/GF week. Still has been his teams to a Grand Final in 3 seasons.

[Rocco Jones]

I guess it's why this year with Beveridge has been so great. We have played such an attacking style. A style we will/should temper but players will have developed a confidence in trusting their skills, just when going into the corridor isn't the best idea etc.

[jeemak]

He's a very average coach. Sure his numbers look good. He can make his boys all dance in a line. But inspiration? Hardly. A toe poke away is a mile away in a final. You need to bet the farm on something more solid than a wayward bounce. With the lists he's had at both St Kilda and Freo he should have been in a position of strength such that Lady Luck has little say. But he hasn't. He owes Sheridan a personal apology for a game style that eventuated in a hospital pass that will have that young bloke up nights for the rest of his days. Passing back like that with Rioli and Roughead lurking, even my Missus who has no great love or interest in footy was screaming out NOOOO but old mate Lyon just can't see the forest for the trees.

Sheridan only has himself to blame, he crumbled because he couldn't handle the pressure. It had nothing to do with Lyon's coaching style.

With Fremantle's list it's a bit of a catch 22. Play another way and that list doesn't get to the pointy end of the season. Get to the pointy end of the season and there's not enough avenues to goal with that style of playing.

For mine he's extremely good at getting a lot out of ordinary players playing together well. It takes a fair bit of good coaching to do that.

[Remi Moses]

He's not an average coach , that's nonsense.
A coach is defined by his list and the recruiting, and Freo kicked poorly for goal in that GF.
The same at Stkilda, as he had great top end talent, but a poor bottom 6.
As Lyon said last night, they've tried to bring in big names but haven't been able to.
The toe poke added in with bad misses, and the crap bounce in 2010 and he has two flags.
Dennis Pagan comes to mind when a coach hasn't got the cattle

[The Doctor]

A coach is defined by his list and the recruiting

Not always, but I agree Lyon is not an average coach. He's very good.

I disagree with the above comment to a certain extent as I believe and have witnessed many times, in various sports, where the coach can make an immediate difference and maximise the potential of a group of existing players that the incumbent couldn't.

Just look at the Bulldogs this year. The impact Bevo has had has been incredible. Would Macca have done the same? No chance.

Let's go back to 1990 when Wheels took over from Malthouse. He had lost players like Magic McLean and Beasley, and all the other stuff that went on back then, yet still dragged us from the bottom to the brink of the finals. Or Wallace taking over from Joyce in 1996.

Other clubs have similar or more compelling examples. Matthews to the brisbane Lions, Blight to both Geelong and Adelaide, Sheedy and the Baby Bombers. These coaches all made under performing or lowly rated teams become great teams.

[Remi Moses]

Agree to an extent, but I'd take you to task on Brisbane .
They had pretty decent draft concessions back in the day.
Matthews put the icing on the cake .
I just reckon Freo's list just isn't as top notch as the others .

[Maddog37]

It is very good for the game overall when the negative style of game that Lyon promotes is shown to ultimately fail at the pointy end.

[Topdog]

Agree to an extent, but I'd take you to task on Brisbane .
They had pretty decent draft concessions back in the day.
Matthews put the icing on the cake .
I just reckon Freo's list just isn't as top notch as the others .

Surely at some point Ross Lyon has to take some of the blame for not having any young players make it at 2 separate clubs now over 8 years?

[Remi Moses]

I think that's the knock on Ross to be honest, as he doesn't introduce enough young players for long enough.
I think Alex Pierce would have played if fit.
It all gets back to list and recruiting where hawthorn and Geelong's lists were better than Freo's and Stkilda's .
He needs to be more attacking ,in which he conceded.

[Ghost Dog]

Surely at some point Ross Lyon has to take some of the blame for not having any young players make it at 2 separate clubs now over 8 years?

He did that in the presser didn't he? " I must get better. The coaching staff must improve. I was bought over here to win."
Personally I have an enormous amount of respect for Lyon. Has seen very tough times. Keeps calm and gets very good performance out of his players. I especially enjoy the way he pans lousy journalists and gives them a good slap down.
You could learn a lot from life about him I reckon. He also thinks we were the hardest side to coach against, when under Rocket. Earned him a few points for me I guess.
Unlike some other coaches, he's honest enough about his deficiencies.

[Sedat]

I guess it's why this year with Beveridge has been so great. We have played such an attacking style. A style we will/should temper but players will have developed a confidence in trusting their skills, just when going into the corridor isn't the best idea etc.
Hawthorn are the best in the competition at giving their players license to use their skills - no surprise that Carko's protégés have a similar philosophy.

[Topdog]

I think that's the knock on Ross to be honest, as he doesn't introduce enough young players for long enough.
I think Alex Pierce would have played if fit.
It all gets back to list and recruiting where hawthorn and Geelong's lists were better than Freo's and Stkilda's .
He needs to be more attacking ,in which he conceded.

He has had 4 full seasons at Fremantle and 4 drafts. How can the list not be his fault? One of the core parts of coaching is skills and he obviously has some big failings in being able to get his lower end talent to improve.

I think he is a great tactical coach but he really is not criticised anywhere near enough.