Tom Boyd 2016

[1eyedog]

Tom had a good year by my standards and did what was required in his 14 games. He took some cracking marks and with another preseason will become fitter and stronger.

What are your expectations of Tom for 2016? Will he play more a stand and deliver forward or will we see the development of more leading patterns? Can he displace Redpath as our number one key forward and can he start to have an impact on games or is it too early too expect much more than what he achieved in 2015?

[Remi Moses]

Needs a little bit more mongrel and agility for me.
Tom sounds and acts like a young man who will leave no stone unturned .

[boydogs]

I think watching Tom develop will be a lot like what we have seen with Stringer

Stringer wasn't fit enough early on, he would give us glimpses but fade out of games and try for cheapies out the back instead of presenting. This year he was able to produce good footy more consistently from week to week and throughout games

I hope to see Tom bring more energy to the contest, leading more, chasing more, using his strength more

[ledge]

Needs to crack in harder and demand the footy, seems a bit timid at times, not sure if that's his personality but I am a tad worried.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Needs to crack in harder and demand the footy, seems a bit timid at times, not sure if that's his personality but I am a tad worried.

He's 19. He's learning how to cope with his big frame against seasoned footballers, I am confident his aggression will come in time because I have no doubt he's very hungry internally to be the best he can be.

He's a big puppy dog right now, but he'll develop into a mountain soon enough. The comparisons with Hawkins are very fair IMO - perhaps not statistically - but certainly in how they play/move and external expectations.

[Ghost Dog]

The club seem very pleased with how he is tracking.

[F'scary]

I think watching Tom develop will be a lot like what we have seen with Stringer

Stringer wasn't fit enough early on, he would give us glimpses but fade out of games and try for cheapies out the back instead of presenting. This year he was able to produce good footy more consistently from week to week and throughout games

I hope to see Tom bring more energy to the contest, leading more, chasing more, using his strength more

I think the Stringer development curve comparison is very valid. Tom has certainly shown glimpses of what he can do. He has a great pair of hands, good goal kicking technique, uses his height to bring other players into game, is very professional in his approach. I think because of the type of player he is, he may take a year more than Stringer to really start making his mark. I expect that he will play around 16 games in 2016 and average 1 to 1.5 goals a match. 2017 will be the year, though.

[westdog54]

I had this conversation with a mate of mine who is a cats supporter.

We need to show the same patience that Geelong did with Tom Hawkins.

Let him learn to use his big frame. The talent is clearly there.

He'll be fine.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm very optimistic about what he may be able to achieve in 2016.

He certainly needs to continue to build his fitness and strength, and that will come with time, but I'm looking forward to seeing him after another pre-season, with coaches better positioned to coach and direct and work out how he best fits in our structure. He's shown he can take a mark, he can kick the ball well and isn't afraid to spend some time in the ruck.

The latter is why I'm not too concerned about the aggression. Any 19 year old bloke who spends considerable time in the ruck at VFL level and a bit at AFL level all whilst being a forward first has a bit of moxie.

[1eyedog]

If Hawkins wasn't a father-son selection can anyone remember where he potentially would have went in that draft?

[Templeton31]

If Hawkins wasn't a father-son selection can anyone remember where he potentially would have went in that draft?

No 1.

[LostDoggy]

Yep. There were big wraps on him as the outstanding prospect of his year.

[bornadog]

I want to see Tom getting stronger but at the same time shedding some weight and playing FF and not in the ruck. We have been craving for a big strong FF for many years, and Tom is the man. This will push Redpath to CHF which I think he is suited to play.

[LostDoggy]

I want to see Tom getting stronger but at the same time shedding some weight and playing FF and not in the ruck. We have been craving for a big strong FF for many years, and Tom is the man. This will push Redpath to CHF which I think he is suited to play.

Agree with all of this. Curious question is on Redpath. Some reckon CHF is an option, some reckon he should be trialled as a KPD. Looking at his attributes, I can see merit in both proposals. Would like to see some experimentation in the off season.

[1eyedog]

Agree with all of this. Curious question is on Redpath. Some reckon CHF is an option, some reckon he should be trialled as a KPD. Looking at his attributes, I can see merit in both proposals. Would like to see some experimentation in the off season.

Agreed. If we don't land the key back we are after, if Roughie does play game time in the ruck and if we lose Talia, which almost certainly appears to be the case, I think Redpath at full back is worth a try. He kicks the ball well, is tough at the contest and is big and strong enough to match the power forwards.

I don't see Boyd and Redpath playing in the same forward line I like the flexibility of the Boyd, Stringer, Crameri set up.

[Rocco Jones]

When we got Tom Boyd, I didn't think he was worth the contract. I know I am not a pioneer there. I do not judge my expectations of him against a million dollars a year standard.

He struggled to get a game this year. Landing a million dollar a year contract doesn't make you more talented. He had a better year in 2015 than 2014. About as good as expected IMO. He just needs to keep improving.

[Ghost Dog]

When we got Tom Boyd, I didn't think he was worth the contract. I know I am not a pioneer there. I do not judge my expectations of him against a million dollars a year standard.

He struggled to get a game this year. Landing a million dollar a year contract doesn't make you more talented. He had a better year in 2015 than 2014. About as good as expected IMO. He just needs to keep improving.

Really? He towers above most guys his age. He is smart, agile and really young. Quality kid. There are only a handful of guys like him in the comp. Do not grow on trees.

[Rocco Jones]

Really? He towers above most guys his age. He is smart, agile and really young. Quality kid. There are only a handful of guys like him in the comp. Do not grow on trees.

Yeah I rate him don't get me wrong. Just a pretty big contract! Who knows by 2021, it will probably be standard for a decent player!

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah I rate him don't get me wrong. Just a pretty big contract! Who knows by 2021, it will probably be standard for a decent player!

Yes, I'm nervous as you are.

When we were vying for him, we had finished 14th. And it didn't look that pretty for the next season. There is only one way a team as low as we were gets a player like Boyd. Dollars, or a genuine desire to be with us. We got very lucky and the planets aligned.

[boydogs]

I didn't think he was worth the contract

Maybe not, but it was better than overpaying players who didn't deserve it and creating cap issues down the track. Same with paying Griffen's wage as a bargaining chip in the trade. We can front end Boyd's deal whilst the kids are young and be in a much better position when we hit top 4 and the squeeze comes. Same concept with offering Merrett & Lonergan $500k for a couple of years

[Rocco Jones]

Maybe not, but it was better than overpaying players who didn't deserve it and creating cap issues down the track. Same with paying Griffen's wage as a bargaining chip in the trade. We can front end Boyd's deal whilst the kids are young and be in a much better position when we hit top 4 and the squeeze comes. Same concept with offering Merrett & Lonergan $500k for a couple of years

Yep, I definitely see why we did it.

[ledge]

We couldn't front end his first year.. First two years players are on a set wage depending on where they are chosen in the draft.

[Go_Dogs]

We couldn't front end his first year.. First two years players are on a set wage depending on where they are chosen in the draft.

I don't pretend to know anything about how our club structures it's total player payments, but presumably Boyd will earn a fair chunk of his contract in 2016 and 2017 meaning we have additional space after that time, along with an increase in the cap based on the new rights deal. This will mean we're well positioned to manage our current list and chase a few established players.

Ideally, we need a list where players are prepared to play for a little under market value to keep the playing group together. The dominant sides of our era have essentially been able to do that, in Geelong and Hawthorn (noting they both lost their biggest ticket items).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We can front end Boyd's deal whilst the kids are young and be in a much better position when we hit top 4 and the squeeze comes.
Front loading seems like the best idea, as GoDogs outlined. Boyd gets his hands on the money earlier and can invest. The rest of the players get more of the pie later on and we can pay a decent price for another trade. No repeat of shortchanging Aker because Brian Lake holds out for max dollar.

[Dancin' Douggy]

After Jesse Hogans terrible body language on the weekend I thought I'd bring up Tom Boyd.
Seeing as they are the two 'great white hopes' for each team.

Tom Boyd has consistently shown great body language.
Always looks serious and committed, never drops his head or points accusingly around.
Competes over and over again, even if he's not having a great game.
Covers a lot of ground and gets deep into defense when required.
Battles it out in the ruck, and when dropped to the VFL kept up the same attitude.

I loved watching Hogans petulance, I REVELLED IN IT, because the whole football world is so smug about him, and so many football watchers and so called experts are almost willing Boyd to fail. I really hope in the long run we prove to have the superior beast.

[1eyedog]

I'd be looking a million bucks too if I was...wait a minute.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very happy with big Tom so far. He isn't going to become Hawkins overnight, but continual improvement should see him develop into a powerhouse which I think he is well on the way to becoming.

He's getting to a lot more contests and is "nearly" marking about 5-10 per game but dropping them at the last moment. I think the ruck has been terrific for him, and whilst it hits his fatigue which impacts his marking/kicking for goal at the moment, in the long run it'll be greatly beneficial for him.

[ledge]

If he held his marks and got the free kicks he should have got he would have kicked 5 or 6 last week, he is getting there.
The dropped marks frustrate me sometimes but being able to kick 5 or 6 and play in the ruck at this stage proved he will be well with it once he knows he can do it !
He needs one break out game and it's game on in my opinion.

[Maddog37]

I was not keen on Toms agility and athleticism early days but I realised I was focussing too much on what he couldn't do rather than what he can do or what he brings to the team.

He has a fantastic attitude and that is one of the reasons I am so certain he will do everything needed to be a success. The kid can seriously play too.

[LostDoggy]

The quality is there, the execution not yet. He's going to be a beast, maybe not this year but still best 22 for all else he brings to the table.

[craigsahibee]

Tom's alleged $1m salary (yet to hear him or anyone from the Bulldogs actually confirm it) is a high price to pay for someone that "straighten's us up" and pinch hits in the Ruck. However, from mid 2017 and beyond $1m a year for this guy will be seen as one of the best deals of all time. Particularly when you consider what the results of the next CBA will provide to the players.

[bornadog]

If anyone had of said to me two years ago we will have the number ons draft pick and he is a 200cm beast, I would have said your dreaming.

Glad he is on our side.

[comrade]

He's doing his job at the moment, but as he physically develops and improves his tank, he'll become the perfect key forward/ruck support for our system.

Really hoping he finishes his good work this week and clunks the marks he's just been missing so far this season. Against a small defensive unit much like last week, we should be able to manufacture some mismatches and give him some good marking opportunities.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone see flog Barretts sliding doors this week? Mentioned that we have all been too hard on Hogan as he's only 21 and played 22 games.

Didn't hesitate to sink the boots into Boyd last year on several occasions when we were losing and Tom wasn't performing.

[Go_Dogs]

They showed an interesting stat before that terrible edition of Friday night football last night, and it highlighted that Tom Boyd has been in the second most one on one contests in the F50 (behind Charlie Dixon).

This demonstrates what he has brought to our team - whilst we're not a "kick deep" side, when we do utilise that tactic it's Tom we are kicking to. He has been able to neutralise just about every contest he's been in (often when out-numbered and being illegally dealt with) and that has become the foundation for our manic forward pressure and ability to lock the ball in our forward half.

Despite what media/opposition supporters et al may say, I'm very happy with how Tom is progressing and it's only a matter of time before he has his day, absolutely dominates and once he has, the confidence will grow and pressure ease. He's a young kid with a huge amount of expectation and is handling it as well as anyone could have hoped.

[GVGjr]

Anyone see flog Barretts sliding doors this week? Mentioned that we have all been too hard on Hogan as he's only 21 and played 22 games.

Didn't hesitate to sink the boots into Boyd last year on several occasions when we were losing and Tom wasn't performing.

Hogan's a special talent but people in the media have been particularly impatient with Tom since he signed the big contract. As much as I like Terry Wallace he can barely mention us without making a reference on how Boyd's contract will weigh us down.

My view is that his contract is just an easy target for the media and they have all failed to understand that in the scheme of things it's probably been a positive for the club. Once Boyd strings a couple of 4 goal games in a row they will start to focus on the need to be patient with tall forwards.

If we start losing though the focus will bounce back to Tom and the contract.

[Maddog37]

I reckon Hogan is being mishandled by Melbourne. They are playing him too deep and anchored to the square. He is much better playing as a high half forward that covers the ground and leaps at packs from differing angles.

[ledge]

I reckon Hogan is being mishandled by Melbourne. They are playing him too deep and anchored to the square. He is much better playing as a high half forward that covers the ground and leaps at packs from differing angles.

What ? Melbourne mishandling a number one draft pick ??? No way .

[dukedog]

What ? Melbourne mishandling a number one draft pick ??? No way .

Hahahahahahhaha. Brilliant.
As a side note to barrett. I watched the video of him having a go at bevo. Saying he had a "conversation" about it at some event. What a sly dog. They blindsided him and bevo should have given them a mouthful after it aired behind closed doors. Plus who gives a hoot about last years talia crap. Talk about this year. Barrett the bogeyman.

[F'scary]

I reckon Hogan is being mishandled by Melbourne. They are playing him too deep and anchored to the square. He is much better playing as a high half forward that covers the ground and leaps at packs from differing angles.

The Dees have a bigger problem than that with him.

[Ghost Dog]

Hogan's a special talent but people in the media have been particularly impatient with Tom since he signed the big contract. As much as I like Terry Wallace he can barely mention us without making a reference on how Boyd's contract will weigh us down.

My view is that his contract is just an easy target for the media and they have all failed to understand that in the scheme of things it's probably been a positive for the club. Once Boyd strings a couple of 4 goal games in a row they will start to focus on the need to be patient with tall forwards.

If we start losing though the focus will bounce back to Tom and the contract.

Rucking, crashing packs, leading hard and tying up defenders, two goals a game with the odd 3 would be satisfactory for this year for me.

[bulldogtragic]

Huge last quarter, I wonder if any footy scribes will give him credit for a huge effort?

[EasternWest]

I thought he was good all game.

He is working really hard.

[Greystache]

Huge last quarter, I wonder if any footy scribes will give him credit for a huge effort?

Doubt it. They'll say only 1 goal and a couple of bad misses that cost the Dogs the game. It's the story they want to write.

[jeemak]

I heard him being sledged for being a millionaire today....

[bulldogtragic]

I heard him being sledged for being a millionaire today....

I wouldn't mind that sledge aimed at me, if true! :D

[FrediKanoute]

Doubt it. They'll say only 1 goal and a couple of bad misses that cost the Dogs the game. It's the story they want to write.

To be fair - he should have gotten one of those points. The set shot was a poor miss. I think though he had a good game. Should have been paid a mark in the first quarter inside 50 and then proceeded to compete well in the ruck. Will continue to develop.

[GVGjr]

I heard him being sledged for being a millionaire today....
We are all millionaires today after getting to watch that contest.

[KT31]

I heard him being sledged for being a millionaire today....

Like the yuppie Hawthorn army can talk.:rolleyes:

[AndrewP6]

I heard him being sledged for being a millionaire today....

I heard Dawks people sledging Murph when he went down, so their opinion means nothing.

[KT31]

I thought for sure his shot from the boundary went threw.

[The Underdog]

Like the yuppie Hawthorn army can talk.:rolleyes:

The irony of a team with Frawley, Burgoyne, McEvoy, Gunston and O'Rourke booing Suckling

[Go_Dogs]

He was good today - some of his work in the centre square in the last was huge, he made repeat efforts to win the ball and get it moving our way.

His snap goal was brilliant too, for a bloke his size.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought for sure his shot from the boundary went threw.

Me too, straight through the middle.

[KT31]

Me too, straight through the middle.

No replay on the coverage either.

[gohardorgohome]

There are several time where he draws two defenders to spoil and we get the crumbs.

He still does not have enough strength to break tackles all the time and is he is still building a tank..... He is 20..... He will be looked on as a very shrewd recruiting coup in a year or two.

[comrade]

There are several time where he draws two defenders to spoil and we get the crumbs.

He still does not have enough strength to break tackles all the time and is he is still building a tank..... He is 20..... He will be looked on as a very shrewd recruiting coup in a year or two.

McLean benefited directly from Boyd drawing multiple defenders, when it slipped over the back and he ran in for an easy goal.

[SonofScray]

A good game from him. Did well in the ruck and around the ground, his work in the middle at times was very good, very aggressive and urging the ball forward.

[westdog54]

Was massive in the ruck and around the ball in the last. He'll be fine.

[bornadog]

Was massive in the ruck and around the ball in the last. He'll be fine.

He only got 5 tap outs, it was the mids that got the clearances. We need Tom at FF - get another ruck in there Bevo.

[The Underdog]

He only got 5 tap outs, it was the mids that got the clearances. We need Tom at FF - get another ruck in there Bevo.

And what do we do with the 2nd ruck when he's not in the middle?

[Mantis]

And what do we do with the 2nd ruck when he's not in the middle?

Yep, that's the problem.

[bornadog]

And what do we do with the 2nd ruck when he's not in the middle?

What did Hawthorn do? They took three big marks in the forward line with the resting rucks and goaled. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us. When Tom was in the ruck, often we had just Stringer as the tall in the Forward line.

I would bring Campbell in and lose one running mid.

[Ozza]

I think the hitout stats of Boyd are a bit misleading. He might not have got 1st hand on the ball often, but he was crashing in, and we got momentum in the 3rd quarter in the period he was in there. He also got a couple of clearances himself and was quite good around the ground.

Our ruckmen simply don't play well enough as forwards to have another one in there. If we were to bring in another tall, I think Redpath is the best option. But I wouldn't even be doing that right now.

Its not really about 'well Hawthorn do it, so we should' - we are a team who relies on forward pressure to get repeat entries, and controlling the game in our half. A really pleasing aspect of yesterday's game, was that even though we weren't able to make it a 'run and gun' type of game - we were still able to adapt, (dare I say) crack in, and give ourselves a great chance of winning.

[G-Mo77]

We've always had the issue of playing that extra big. Maybe with the 4th bench spot we might be able to use that 2nd ruck a little more but I'm still reluctant.

[Sedat]

The ruck combo of Roughy and Boyd is the least of our worries. It is easily the best combination for us with the lower rotations. McEvoy clunked a couple but we murdered them at the centre clearances and overall clearances.

[Mantis]

What did Hawthorn do? They took three big marks in the forward line with the resting rucks and goaled. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us. When Tom was in the ruck, often we had just Stringer as the tall in the Forward line.

I would bring Campbell in and lose one running mid.

We had Boyd & Roughy, they had McEvoy & Ceglar... Can't see the difference here.

They also had Schoenmakers as a KPF, but he was a complete non-factor.

And which running mid goes?

[bornadog]

We had Boyd & Roughy, they had McEvoy & Ceglar... Can't see the difference here.

They also had Schoenmakers as a KPF, but he was a complete non-factor.

And which running mid goes?

They had Shoenmaker and Gunston, both over 193cm. McEvoy clunked two cont. marks and Segler one and all three were goals.

Well I guess Jong was almost a non factor (except one third man up to Wallis for a goal), so maybe we could have had Campbell in and Jong out. For starters, could have made Frawley and Gibbo more accountable instead of roaming around picking up possessions at will.

I don't think we took one cont. mark in the forward line?

[soupman]

They had Shoenmaker and Gunston, both over 193cm.

And we had Stringer, meanng Shoenmakers was the only extra tal lforward they had.



I don't think we took one cont. mark in the forward line?
Not sure either Campbell or Minson fix that.



For starters, could have made Frawley and Gibbo more accountable instead of roaming around picking up possessions at will.

Or they could have been witches hats for them to run off of. Neither Frawley or Gibson were particularly damaging up the field from memory. That extra small forward/mid rotation we get by sacrificing no big key forward for half the match adds much more to our press and run. It's just a shame that Jong struggled to impact the game at all.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think the hitout stats of Boyd are a bit misleading. He might not have got 1st hand on the ball often, but he was crashing in, and we got momentum in the 3rd quarter in the period he was in there. He also got a couple of clearances himself and was quite good around the ground.

Our ruckmen simply don't play well enough as forwards to have another one in there. If we were to bring in another tall, I think Redpath is the best option. But I wouldn't even be doing that right now.

Its not really about 'well Hawthorn do it, so we should' - we are a team who relies on forward pressure to get repeat entries, and controlling the game in our half. A really pleasing aspect of yesterday's game, was that even though we weren't able to make it a 'run and gun' type of game - we were still able to adapt, (dare I say) crack in, and give ourselves a great chance of winning.

We should of won the game it's as simple as that. If we had of then people would look at our example and say let's go an extra mid perhaps.

I do think though in these really big high pressure games where you just don't get easy free lead up marks or possessions, you see a lot of bombing to packs in the forward line. We certainly weren't as effective in taking forward line contested marks as they were and another tall marking option may be the answer. Do we have one is another question.

[Eastdog]

T Boyd was good yesterday. Once his confidence improves with his goal kicking he'll be fine.

[Eastdog]

We should of won the game it's as simple as that. If we had of then people would look at our example and say let's go an extra mid perhaps.

I do think though in these really big high pressure games where you just don't get easy free lead up marks or possessions, you see a lot of bombing to packs in the forward line. We certainly weren't as effective in taking forward line contested marks as they were and another tall marking option may be the answer. Do we have one is another question.

Jack Redpath? Could he be an option up there. Can T Boyd and Repath play together.

[Stefcep]

We should of won the game it's as simple as that. If we had of then people would look at our example and say let's go an extra mid perhaps.

I do think though in these really big high pressure games where you just don't get easy free lead up marks or possessions, you see a lot of bombing to packs in the forward line. We certainly weren't as effective in taking forward line contested marks as they were and another tall marking option may be the answer. Do we have one is another question.

i think we put as much pressure on them, but we bombed the ball far more than they did. In this regards not having Dickson and Crameri as targets really was the difference in terms of us just bombing it or looking to hit a target instead.

[GVGjr]

I've watched the replay and I think I know why his set shots at goal aren't working. He simply does not line up aiming for the centre of the goals and his run up just before he kicks reflects that.

I'd like to think this could be fixed quickly.

[Greystache]

I've watched the replay and I think I know why his set shots at goal aren't working. He simply does not line up aiming for the centre of the goals and his run up just before he kicks reflects that.

I'd like to think this could be fixed quickly.

But will we work on it?

[GVGjr]

But will we work on it?

I'd like to think so but I won't hold my breath. :)

[bornadog]

I'd like to think so but I won't hold my breath. :)

Of course he will, he is a professional.

[ratsmac]

To be fair - he should have gotten one of those points. The set shot was a poor miss. I think though he had a good game. Should have been paid a mark in the first quarter inside 50 and then proceeded to compete well in the ruck. Will continue to develop.

I thought it was 50/50 one to be honest but I was livered when McEvoy's 50/50 attempt was paid a mark minutes later. Unfair umpiring :mad:

[FrediKanoute]

I thought it was 50/50 one to be honest but I was livered when McEvoy's 50/50 attempt was paid a mark minutes later. Unfair umpiring :mad:

Agreed.....completely inconsistent - I think at one point out of the Hawks first 5 goals 2or 3 came as a result of umpire interference

[bornadog]

Agreed.....completely inconsistent - I think at one point out of the Hawks first 5 goals 2or 3 came as a result of umpire interference

Three from free kicks from the first 5.

[Mantis]

Three from free kicks from the first 5.

What was our break-down? We had a few too.

[bornadog]

What was our break-down? We had a few too.

By the end of the game we had at least 2 or 3 as well. Not sure overall frees in front of goal for the game.

[always right]

[QUOTE=Mantis;488682]What was our break

Don't know but there's no doubt that the hawks got the better end of the deal in the first quarter but we benefited from some dubious umpiring calls as the game progressed. The reality is they were bad enough for both clubs' supporters to hold them in contempt. Chamberlain is an attention seeker and Donlon simply isn't a very good umpire.

[Sedat]

Don't know but there's no doubt that the hawks got the better end of the deal in the first quarter but we benefited from some dubious umpiring calls as the game progressed. The reality is they were bad enough for both clubs' supporters to hold them in contempt. Chamberlain is an attention seeker and Donlon simply isn't a very good umpire.
I've long ago stopped blaming the umpires for our losses*. Having done some umpiring for my son's footy team, it is an incredibly difficult job and I reckon the umpires do as good a job as possible given the difficult nature of the job. Biggest problem I have with umpiring is the propensity to give champions far more leeway - Josh Gibson and Cyril benefitted from this largesse in the first qtr on Sunday with clear HTB's that weren't given. There are also far too many rules in our game that are based on interpretation and not black and white fact, which is prone to creating inconsistency. But that is a problem of the rules not the umpires.

* Shane IcInernay and the 2009 PF is the notable exception and always will be until the end of time.

[always right]

I've long ago stopped blaming the umpires for our losses*. Having done some umpiring for my son's footy team, it is an incredibly difficult job and I reckon the umpires do as good a job as possible given the difficult nature of the job. Biggest problem I have with umpiring is the propensity to give champions far more leeway - Josh Gibson and Cyril benefitted from this largesse in the first qtr on Sunday with clear HTB's that weren't given. There are also far too many rules in our game that are based on interpretation and not black and white fact, which is prone to creating inconsistency. But that is a problem of the rules not the umpires.

* Shane IcInernay and the 2009 PF is the notable exception and will always be until the end of time

I am prone to abusing umpires but rarely blame them for a loss....like you I have McInerney as the exception.

The first thing I look for when the umpires enter the ground is whether he is there. I'm not normally violent but I think there are occasions when a well positioned sniper at the ground would be justified.

[Happy Days]

I've long ago stopped blaming the umpires for our losses*. Having done some umpiring for my son's footy team, it is an incredibly difficult job and I reckon the umpires do as good a job as possible given the difficult nature of the job. Biggest problem I have with umpiring is the propensity to give champions far more leeway - Josh Gibson and Cyril benefitted from this largesse in the first qtr on Sunday with clear HTB's that weren't given. There are also far too many rules in our game that are based on interpretation and not black and white fact, which is prone to creating inconsistency. But that is a problem of the rules not the umpires.

* Shane IcInernay and the 2009 PF is the notable exception and always will be until the end of time.

I got an A+ in year 12 English giving an oral presentation on how shit of an umpire Shane McInernay is.

[Bulldog4life]

I hope Tom will practice and practice his goal kicking technique. It is so important that a key forward is a good shot for goal. From a supporters point of view there is nothing better to feeling confident when a forward is kicking for goal.

[F'scary]

I hope Tom will practice and practice his goal kicking technique. It is so important that a key forward is a good shot for goal. From a supporters point of view there is nothing better to feeling confident when a forward is kicking for goal.

He's got the yips, he was much better last year.

[Mantis]

I hope Tom will practice and practice his goal kicking technique. It is so important that a key forward is a good shot for goal. From a supporters point of view there is nothing better to feeling confident when a forward is kicking for goal.

Whilst it's important that he practices such that he is comfortable with is technique he also has to pay attention to what is happening with the flight of the ball.

In a previous life (pre-kids) I was a pretty handy golfer and through my practice I got to a stage where I could stand over the ball and know if I put a reasonable swing on it which shape of shot I would hit.

When watching Tom kick at present it's clear that he is moving the ball right to left in the air, but other than one kick against Freo he has made no allowance to this and is continuing to aim centre and miss left.

[Cyberdoggie]

Whilst it's important that he practices such that he is comfortable with is technique he also has to pay attention to what is happening with the flight of the ball.

In a previous life (pre-kids) I was a pretty handy golfer and through my practice I got to a stage where I could stand over the ball and know if I put a reasonable swing on it which shape of shot I would hit.

When watching Tom kick at present it's clear that he is moving the ball right to left in the air, but other than one kick against Freo he has made no allowance to this and is continuing to aim centre and miss left.

Your spot on there, he almost looks like his body is leaning/angled to the left as well, as in he is not standing straight when he kicks the ball. Jake Stringer has similar problems but he leans back on occasions rather than to the left like Boyd, both actions result in kicks that don't go straight or curve.

[Bulldog4life]

Whilst it's important that he practices such that he is comfortable with is technique he also has to pay attention to what is happening with the flight of the ball.

In a previous life (pre-kids) I was a pretty handy golfer and through my practice I got to a stage where I could stand over the ball and know if I put a reasonable swing on it which shape of shot I would hit.

When watching Tom kick at present it's clear that he is moving the ball right to left in the air, but other than one kick against Freo he has made no allowance to this and is continuing to aim centre and miss left.

Yes I agree with this. His high ball drop doesn't help either.

[westdog54]

Whilst it's important that he practices such that he is comfortable with is technique he also has to pay attention to what is happening with the flight of the ball.

In a previous life (pre-kids) I was a pretty handy golfer and through my practice I got to a stage where I could stand over the ball and know if I put a reasonable swing on it which shape of shot I would hit.

When watching Tom kick at present it's clear that he is moving the ball right to left in the air, but other than one kick against Freo he has made no allowance to this and is continuing to aim centre and miss left.

To put a slightly different spin (no pun intended) on this, I'm a semi-automatic pistol instructor.

Its generally fairly easy to diagnose what is happening with a shooter's fundamentals if there's a common area of the target they are hitting when they are aiming for the centre. From there, we can work on their fundamentals to get them shooting straight.

Whilst kicking a footy and firing a pistol are vastly different endeavours, and I have no expertise on kicking a football, I can only imagine there's a biomechanical reason that some players have a 'bend' in their kick (Jon Thurston and Buddy Franklin come to mind) and others can simply hit it straight (Tory Dickson says hello)

I'd like to think that this is something that VU can explore deeper with Tom, so that the simplistic 'aim it left to hit the centre' approach can be avoided.


I got an A+ in year 12 English giving an oral presentation on how shit of an umpire Shane McInernay is.

Whilst its probably not what the Like button was intended for, this is one of my favourite posts of the year.

[LostDoggy]

Three from free kicks from the first 5.

And there's the game done right there.

[jeemak]

A lot depends on which part of the foot the ball makes contact with. For a right foot player right to left swing can be more prevalent if the footy comes off the outside of the boot. Off the instep it's more likely to go left to right.

i haven't watched closely enough to see whether he points his toes to the left exposing the outside of the boot, it might be a simple matter of working on that - plus he needs to drop the ball closer to his boot.

[ledge]

Interesting how a player walks in when having a shot at goal .. I was with an ex player on weekend and Boyd was having a shot at goal and we were right behind him . He pointed out look at his shoulders one is lower than the other as he walks in, went on to explain what would happen and why when he kicked it and it happened..
He has a lot of corrections to make, which is a good sign he has a lot of improvement to come.
I remember hearing once that players at training don't actually practice goal kicking as such and focus on game plan, positions etc.
if that's true it's silly,no wonder players are terrible in front of goal.
Has anyone ever watched training and saw players actually with a kicking for goal coach next to them, showing them the right techniques one on one ?

[1eyedog]

Tom has a lot going on with his action. Everything discussed above, shoulders, head position, area of the foot the ball lands, being balanced when you walk in, where you hold the ball, how high the drop is, where you are mentally perceiving the ball is going to go are all contributing factors. He doesn't actually look like he's going back far enough as he sets up, but that may be his thing. No doubt about it though his timing is off which affects a number of components from the last step to when he releases it to where and when the ball hits the boot.

It's definitely confidence and no doubt its down when kicking for goal. It may be nerves, he can't keep everything tucked away and he knows he is expected to nail em and when you don't drill them consecutively it becomes more of a mental challenge.

[Stefcep]

A lot depends on which part of the foot the ball makes contact with. For a right foot player right to left swing can be more prevalent if the footy comes off the outside of the boot. Off the instep it's more likely to go left to right.

i haven't watched closely enough to see whether he points his toes to the left exposing the outside of the boot, it might be a simple matter of working on that - plus he needs to drop the ball closer to his boot.

How many years and kicks does it take to work that out, seriously? We learned we could bend a torp to the left by kicking with the outside of the right boot in the under 11's at Wembley Park.

You want it go straight, you need a vertically plumb kicking motion, and guide the drop on to the centre of the boot, and follow though with the kicking action dead in front. Its not rocket surgery.

[ledge]

Rocket surgery ?? ;-)

[hujsh]

Rocket surgery ?? ;-)

Very hard. Especially when the rocket's in flight

[1eyedog]

Rocket surgery ?? ;-)

Love it!

[bulldogtragic]

Don't want to argue the point, but Tom is actually an excellent goal kicker, in play and set shot:

2012 & 2013: TAC he kicked 71.25 (73%)
2014: (GWS) 8.3 (73%)
2015: AFL 16.6 (73%) & VFL 14.6 (70%)
2016: 5.3 (3 games)

4 year average 72% - Tony Lockett career averaged 69.74%

[Ozza]

Don't want to argue the point, but Tom is actually an excellent goal kicker, in play and set shot:

2012 & 2013: TAC he kicked 71.25 (73%)
2014: (GWS) 8.3 (73%)
2015: AFL 16.6 (73%) & VFL 14.6 (70%)
2016: 5.3 (3 games)

4 year average 72% - Tony Lockett career averaged 69.74%

I like it BT....but the asterix on this season is that he's kicked also kicked 1 on the full and 1 that went nowhere for no score. He isn't kicking well at the moment - but agree that historically he has been a solid kick at goal.

[bulldogtragic]

No scores don't factor into Lockett or Dunstall's percentage accuracy either to be fair. 73% accuracy over 4 years in three competitions, with three clubs is absolutely elite. 3 games into the season so far and he's also been rucking more and would be heavier in the legs - isn't worth too much worry for me and reinventing his technique seems a little over the top only from my perspective. For what it's worth, his kick from the boundary on the weekend went through the middle despite the goal umpire not paying it. I didn't see a touched all clear so I assume he was just robbed.

[bornadog]

. For what it's worth, his kick from the boundary on the weekend went through the middle despite the goal umpire not paying it. I didn't see a touched all clear so I assume he was just robbed.

Is this true?

[KT31]

Is this true?

Posted about this earlier, we thought it was a goal at but they never showed a replay.
If it did it is a shocking mistake in a 3 point ball game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think Tom is usually a solid set shot, what I think is happening so far this season is that the accumulated fatigue as a result of playing in the ruck has had an effect on his technique.

With a few more pre-seasons this shouldn't be an issue.

[Bulldog Joe]

Posted about this earlier, we thought it was a goal at but they never showed a replay.
If it did it is a shocking mistake in a 3 point ball game.

I also thought it was a goal from the TV and was surprised that it wasn't.
However, there was no indication from any of the players that they thought it went through.

[bornadog]

I also thought it was a goal from the TV and was surprised that it wasn't.
However, there was no indication from any of the players that they thought it went through.

No reaction from Tom either.

[GVGjr]

Could his drop in goal kicking accuracy be attributed to two things:
1) The ball drop and run up isn't as straight as previous years?
2) The extra workload of his ruck work means he isn't as fresh as previous seasons?

His goal kicking looked good early last season but fell away a bit a later in the season and maybe that could be attributed to the extra work load.

[comrade]

Don't know if it's off the mark, but he seems to shank it more after a big lead or a spell in the ruck as if the physical effort to get on the end of it overwhelms him and the technique goes out the window. Definitely kicks across his body more when he's fatigued.

[jeemak]

I was on level three behind the goals Tom was kicking to from the boundary. It was hard to tell, did it miss behind the near post?

The way Tom and team mates reacted suggests to me it was a behind.

[SonofScray]

I was on level three behind the goals Tom was kicking to from the boundary. It was hard to tell, did it miss behind the near post?

The way Tom and team mates reacted suggests to me it was a behind.

It must have been close because from where I was sitting it tricked me into thinking it was a goal.

[jeemak]

It's normally the near side misses from tight angles that do that.

[Bulldog4life]

From where I was sitting it looked like a goal and there also was no reaction from the Hawthorn Cheer squad. I was out of my seat cheering.....then very quickly sat down.

[Murphy'sLore]

From where I was sitting it looked like a goal and there also was no reaction from the Hawthorn Cheer squad. I was out of my seat cheering.....then very quickly sat down.

My husband did exactly the same thing if that makes you feel any better :)

[KT31]

My husband did exactly the same thing if that makes you feel any better :)

Two of us high fiving and jumping around as well.
Albeit in the seclusion of our lounge room 600 klm's from the ground.

[1eyedog]

Is anyone else on the edge of their seat waiting for Boydy to make three or four big clunks and kick a small bag? I know I am.

[azabob]

Is anyone else on the edge of their seat waiting for Boydy to make three or four big clunks and kick a small bag? I know I am.

He is so close it isn't funny. Against the saints he seemed to drop a couple of absolute sitters and could have had five.

Hopefully this Saturday night.

[bornadog]

Is anyone else on the edge of their seat waiting for Boydy to make three or four big clunks and kick a small bag? I know I am.


He is so close it isn't funny. Against the saints he seemed to drop a couple of absolute sitters and could have had five.

Hopefully this Saturday night.

My gut feel is he will kick 5 this week.

[bulldogtragic]

My gut feel is he will kick 5 this week.

I see your 5 and raise you 7.

[Greystache]

I see your 5 and raise you 7.

That's 12. That would certainly be a break out game!

[Torpedo]

Don't know if this is an artefact of the tv cameras but he didn't run straight at the goals in his run up. This has crept into a lot of our forwards. A very slight arc to the right perhaps in an attempt to get an extra metre in distance? When he kicked the goal in the previous match after missing one, he definitely changed his drop to straight over his right leg and ran straight at goal. Stringer kicks beautifully from distance but usually doesn't kick through the ball at closer range. My U14 coach always said "the ball goes where you run" ie run straight at the goals and with a correct ball drop over your kicking leg, the ball should sail straight through. Bruce Andrews (long ago kicking guru for younger readers) would be turning over in his grave at some of our players approach to goal. Watching Roughie in the warmup and I don't recall one of his drop punts rotating correctly. As BA would have said " must always have a taut instep". Make Tory the goal kicking coach now!

[comrade]

I was listening to The Sounding Board podcast with Damien Barrett and Craig Hutchison. I know, I know, but it's actually a very interesting insight into the machinations of the footy media industry and funnily enough, they come across as much more likeable (Hutch more so) in this format than anywhere else they appear.

In the most recent episode (Episode 10), they did a segment called Spin City where they have a hypothetical conversation about a footy topic. Barrett wanted to talk about Boyd and so he played the role of Bevo, with Hutchy as PG.

The premise was that Bevo goes to PG, taking umbrage at the terms of Boyd's contract. Of course, Barrett took the position that the Boyd contract is ridiculous (Hutchy stated that he knows that Boyd is on roughly 1.8-2M this year, making him the highest paid player in the competition) and is potentially costing us trade opportunities. Hutchy argued that the money is the most insignificant thing about the deal, that we have to pay someone to make the cap and it's best to do it up front so when our guns are coming out of contract (he mentioned Stringer, Macrae & Bont), we've front loaded and will have the cap space to retain them. By the time 2018 roles around, he'll be on approx $700,000 and will be well worth that (and implying it will be unders).

Barrett just couldn't let go of the huge dollars and the fact we're contending and we may miss a player due to Boyd's contract and Hutchy said (in his role as PG) - "Ok, Bevo. You get a commitment from a Dustin Martin or a Dan Hannebery and I'll see if I can make it happen, until then it doesn't matter". Hutchy then had a crack at Barrett for his righteousness regarding his negativity over the Boyd deal.

It was an interesting segment and I give props to Hutchy for seeing the deal in a way that other journos like Barrett have been unable to. What was also insightful was a comment Hutchy made earlier in the podcast about 'good blokes' in the game getting a '20% discount' or leniency in how things are reported in the media, yet blokes who have been hard work get whacked the other way. Barrett agreed and said as he got older and more jaded, this happens more often.

Gives you an idea why Barrett goes so hard at Boyd and Bevo.

Well worth a listen for Doggies fans, if only to have some ammo the next time a peanut opposition supporter has a crack at the Boyd deal.

[Templeton31]

Thanks Comrade. Will listen now. I saw the headline of the podcast and thought it would be the 2 of them taking turns to whack Tom - Dammo doesn't usually miss an opportunity to whack him r.e. contact. But having read your summary Ill have a listen. It makes sense too.

[Ozza]

I was listening to The Sounding Board podcast with Damien Barrett and Craig Hutchison. I know, I know, but it's actually a very interesting insight into the machinations of the footy media industry and funnily enough, they come across as much more likeable (Hutch more so) in this format than anywhere else they appear.

In the most recent episode (Episode 10), they did a segment called Spin City where they have a hypothetical conversation about a footy topic. Barrett wanted to talk about Boyd and so he played the role of Bevo, with Hutchy as PG.

The premise was that Bevo goes to PG, taking umbrage at the terms of Boyd's contract. Of course, Barrett took the position that the Boyd contract is ridiculous (Hutchy stated that he knows that Boyd is on roughly 1.8-2M this year, making him the highest paid player in the competition) and is potentially costing us trade opportunities. Hutchy argued that the money is the most insignificant thing about the deal, that we have to pay someone to make the cap and it's best to do it up front so when our guns are coming out of contract (he mentioned Stringer, Macrae & Bont), we've front loaded and will have the cap space to retain them. By the time 2018 roles around, he'll be on approx $700,000 and will be well worth that (and implying it will be unders).

Barrett just couldn't let go of the huge dollars and the fact we're contending and we may miss a player due to Boyd's contract and Hutchy said (in his role as PG) - "Ok, Bevo. You get a commitment from a Dustin Martin or a Dan Hannebery and I'll see if I can make it happen, until then it doesn't matter". Hutchy then had a crack at Barrett for his righteousness regarding his negativity over the Boyd deal.

It was an interesting segment and I give props to Hutchy for seeing the deal in a way that other journos like Barrett have been unable to. What was also insightful was a comment Hutchy made earlier in the podcast about 'good blokes' in the game getting a '20% discount' or leniency in how things are reported in the media, yet blokes who have been hard work get whacked the other way. Barrett agreed and said as he got older and more jaded, this happens more often.

Gives you an idea why Barrett goes so hard at Boyd and Bevo.

Well worth a listen for Doggies fans, if only to have some ammo the next time a peanut opposition supporter has a crack at the Boyd deal.

I've listened to Hutchy on his show with Pickering and Doctor Turf on Saturday mornings (Off The Bench) for a long time, and find Hutchy very likable and funny on that show.

In terms of the stance on the Boyd deal - Hutchy has always been a supporter of it, and tends to look big picture or outside the square at these sort of things. Barrett just likes to pot clubs and in my opinion barracks too hard for the 'headline'.

Personally, I supported the Boyd deal at the time. I'm far more nervous about it now. But I'm glad to hear (if true), that the big money is in the early years, before our best players are having the big money kick in/new contracts negotiated.

[bulldogtragic]

Tom Boyd at 27 games - vs - Kurt Tippett at 27 games

Goals - 29.13 vs 26.24 (Boyd is an outstanding kick for goal as I keep rambling about)
Disposals - 7.89 vs 8.59
Marks - 3.1 vs 2.7
CM - 1.07 vs .96
Tackles - 1.89 vs 2.07

Salary - $700,000 (after this year is done) vs $900,000

Boyd is ahead of Tippett on a like for like after 27 games. But Tom has considerably more growth and development in his game. This deal is a winner no matter Barrett screams about. Boyd is the real deal, he'll be better than Tippett and he will cost considerably less. I stand by my decision to recruit him from GWS.

[Throughandthrough]

Does anyone have a clue re Boyd's contract if he misses matches through injury or non selection, $$$ payment wise?

[Ozza]

Tom Boyd at 27 games - vs - Kurt Tippett at 27 games

Goals - 29.13 vs 26.24 (Boyd is an outstanding kick for goal as I keep rambling about)
Disposals - 7.89 vs 8.59
Marks - 3.1 vs 2.7
CM - 1.07 vs .96
Tackles - 1.89 vs 2.07

Salary - $700,000 (after this year is done) vs $900,000

Boyd is ahead of Tippett on a like for like after 27 games. But Tom has considerably more growth and development in his game. This deal is a winner no matter Barrett screams about. Boyd is the real deal, he'll be better than Tippett and he will cost considerably less. I stand by my decision to recruit him from GWS.

The real comparison is going to be whether Boyd is anywhere near Tippett after 50 games. Between 27 games and 50 Games played - Tippett kicked 57 goals. In his second season of footy, Tippett chalked up 55 goals and was one of the very good forwards in the competition.

[bulldogtragic]

The real comparison is going to be whether Boyd is anywhere near Tippett after 50 games. Between 27 games and 50 Games played - Tippett kicked 57 goals. In his second season of footy, Tippett chalked up 55 goals and was one of the very good forwards in the competition.

I watched enough of him through TAC to believe he will be in this grade as he matures & develops and hopefully a midfield capable of kicking it to his advantage & another big man to help him out. Things Tippett had. I don't doubt him, my real concern is the midfield entries to him and an almost refusal by umpires to pay him frees that Hogan seems to get.

[comrade]

I watched enough of him through TAC to believe he will be in this grade as he matures & develops and hopefully a midfield capable of kicking it to his advantage & another big man to help him out. Things Tippett had. I don't doubt him, my real concern is the midfield entries to him and an almost refusal by umpires to pay him frees that Hogan seems to get.

You'd hate to think the umpires don't pay them out of a sense of righteousness (you make that much $$, you can earn a kick) but after watching Making A Murderer recently, I don't think anyone is above corruption 😄

[Axe Man]

Have to remember with the Tippett comparison that Kurt didn't debut until he was almost 21, around the age Tom is now.

[Ozza]

I watched enough of him through TAC to believe he will be in this grade as he matures & develops and hopefully a midfield capable of kicking it to his advantage & another big man to help him out. Things Tippett had. I don't doubt him, my real concern is the midfield entries to him and an almost refusal by umpires to pay him frees that Hogan seems to get.

Gee I hope your glass-half full view on Boyd is right. I desperately want him to be a success. It makes me very nervous.

[Remi Moses]

It seems in some eyes Tom's got worse while being injured.

[hujsh]

Gee I hope your glass-half full view on Boyd is right. I desperately want him to be a success. It makes me very nervous.

For some perspective there's a thread here approximately titled "I'm calling it now, Liam Jones will be a star."

The lesson is our feelings about how good a player will be can change quite dramatically over a few years. And as Jones has destroyed all hopes, Boyd could easily dash all fears.

[Axe Man]

It seems in some eyes Tom's got worse while being injured.

You're only as good as your last game and in Tom's last game he falconed a ball into the crowd.

If he had kicked 5 in his last game he would be the next Wayne Carey. People have short memories.

[1eyedog]

When you doubt just watch this and remember he is only 20.


http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-03-14/talking-points-dogs-v-pies

[Mantis]

You're only as good as your last game and in Tom's last game he falconed a ball into the crowd.

If he had kicked 5 in his last game he would be the next Wayne Carey. People have short memories.

But it was a high quality falcon... If he had fluffed it then I could understand the heightened level of criticism, but he *!*!*!*!ing nailed it!

[bulldogtragic]

Gee I hope your glass-half full view on Boyd is right. I desperately want him to be a success. It makes me very nervous.

I'm a glass completely full guy on Tom. A drafted 200+cm & 100+ kg kid, marking machine and deadly accurate in front of goal and was so red hot a number one pick that Sheedy was trying to sell the rights to him for stupid offers. He's still around 70% goal conversion and hasn't had the luxury of a big foil or decoy tall down with him (Bevo's words). The entries forward since we've had him haven't helped and he's been getting monstered yet is tracking nicely as he grows into his huge body. Without checking I'd say he's in front of Tom Hawkins to this stage too. When he gets the forwardline support and better delivery as he's stronger and smarter at the level the club will be laughing it's arse off that we are getting him for under market value for the last more than half of his contract. So will I as we keep resigning our guns and Barrett and co's 'world is falling in rhetoric about keeping the list together' are seen for the empty hyperbole. The kid cost Gryphone, pick 8, $6,000,000 in wages and $700,000 for Gryphones salary. There's a very good reason for that, he's that good.

[comrade]

He was also a symbol of hope to thousands of fans that had been pounded from pillar to post. His signing was a catalyst for change that we're still feeling the effects of. He was a blue chip prospect that chose to come to us, yes money was part of it, but it was something else too.

You can't put a price on that.

[S Coast Simon]

I can remember in his draft year I was praying the club did some wheeling and dealing to sucure the first round pick. It is a guessing game re the potential of draft picks but this kid was a standout number one. I was so disappointed we couldn't get him in the draft as I thought of him as the forward we could build a premiership around. Thrilled we have him now and wouldn't expect him to really hit his straps for a few years yet. Like all big fellas it isn't till they are about 23-25 that they really start playing good footy. With a few exceptions of course. I must admit I thought the umpires have allowed him to get mauled by opposition many times. Would be interesting to know just how many free kicks he has been paid as I think they have missed at least half that he would have gotten if his name was Reiwolt. You only had to breathe on him at one stage a few years back.

[bornadog]

How many times in the past 30 years have we had a 200cm number one draft pick at our club that can play?

I really don't care about his contract and what he is paid, he is a Bulldog with tremendous upside and he plays for us.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Still confident on Boyd.

He was always going to take time - and not just because that's the fancy common line to excuse performances for a tall you have NFI if he will make it - but because he was a puppy in a Bulldog's grown body. His body composition has improved a lot since he arrived at the club and he's fitter. He's added versatility to his game, which he didn't have previously.

I see Boyd as seemingly "frustrating" the outside world for another two years, before exploding. I doubt we see a gradual climb - I predict it'll be a sharp and sudden rise, very similar to that of Hawkins.

The one thing I want to see Boyd work on is his aggresiveness. He has it at times (the stellar mark v Pies in the NAB) but it's not natural to him. He has almost everything else in his favour - strong mark (rucking/fatigue has hindered this a little but he'll be better for it), good kick, good attitude, intelligent footballer.

Be patient.

[comrade]

I like his ruck work and think it's been good for his development but I think he'd benefit from a ruckman who can ruck 70-80% game time, which I'm hopeful Campbell can get to.

it'll be interesting to see how our structure works itself out. 2 genuine rucks + Boyd & Redpath, 2 genuine rucks + Boyd or Redpath or 1 genuine ruck + Boyd and Redpath.

[bulldogtragic]

I like his ruck work and think it's been good for his development but I think he'd benefit from a ruckman who can ruck 70-80% game time, which I'm hopeful Campbell can get to.

it'll be interesting to see how our structure works itself out. 2 genuine rucks + Boyd & Redpath, 2 genuine rucks + Boyd or Redpath or 1 genuine ruck + Boyd and Redpath.

Bevo at a recent presser talked about the need for Boyd to have another tall target or 'decoy'. I tend to agree. When Boyd rucks our forwardline losses structure and venom. I'd like him to spend as much time as possible up there. So Redpath needs to ruck 10+% or we should look at a forward/second ruck to put next to Boyd as Camhead plus Boyd & Redders seems one too many. I think Roughy is the one to drop off possibly as Campbell looks like a real first ruck. Roughie isn't a forward, so perhaps to defence or see if the trade market will pay nicely for him.

[Rocco Jones]

Bevo at a recent presser talked about the need for Boyd to have another tall target or 'decoy'. I tend to agree. When Boyd rucks our forwardline losses structure and venom. I'd like him to spend as much time as possible up there. So Redpath needs to ruck 10+% or we should look at a forward/second ruck to put next to Boyd as Camhead plus Boyd & Redders seems one too many. I think Roughy is the one to drop off possibly as Campbell looks like a real first ruck. Roughie isn't a forward, so perhaps to defence or see if the trade market will pay nicely for him.

I would like to see us trying flexible 2nd ruck options. Bring in Tom Boyd for say Fletcher Roberts and have Roughy and T.Boyd as 2nd ruck options. If the forward line looks too top heavy/we need another tall defender, play T.Boyd as 2nd ruck more. If we are ok for height down back and forward line is looking good, play Roughy 2nd ruck more.

[Remi Moses]

You're only as good as your last game and in Tom's last game he falconed a ball into the crowd.

If he had kicked 5 in his last game he would be the next Wayne Carey. People have short memories.

Plenty of players have been falconed . I'm not sure that constitutes being in poor form .

[F'scary]

Plenty of players have been falconed . I'm not sure that constitutes being in poor form .

And he was pushed in the back as he went for the ball by Carlton cheat Weitering.

[Bulldog4life]

We all want Tom to succeed. All Ozza said that he was nervous. I can see his point.

[1eyedog]

I would like to see Boyd taken out of the ruck, surely Camhead have that role filled now, although I'm not sure if the head of Camhead can stay in the team if Boyd and Redpath play.

I don't think rucking helps his shoulders at all. We need to remember he is still developing physically. He broke down in the ruck and I would like to limit the risk of him breaking down again. I hope the MC take a conservative approach to his transition back to AFL footy.

[Axe Man]

Plenty of players have been falconed . I'm not sure that constitutes being in poor form .

Wasn't really my point. It wasn't his best game, the falcon bit was a joke. Next time I will be sure to use an emoticon.

[Remi Moses]

Wasn't really my point. It wasn't his best game, the falcon bit was a joke. Next time I will be sure to use an emoticon.
Not an issue axe man . I think that was a quiet game, but I reckon he's been pretty decent before that .
I think we're all nervy on Tom to be honest, and I'll make an assessment in a few years regardless of the salary .

[Twodogs]

I was listening to The Sounding Board podcast with Damien Barrett and Craig Hutchison. I know, I know, but it's actually a very interesting insight into the machinations of the footy media industry and funnily enough, they come across as much more likeable (Hutch more so) in this format than anywhere else they appear.

In the most recent episode (Episode 10), they did a segment called Spin City where they have a hypothetical conversation about a footy topic. Barrett wanted to talk about Boyd and so he played the role of Bevo, with Hutchy as PG.

The premise was that Bevo goes to PG, taking umbrage at the terms of Boyd's contract. Of course, Barrett took the position that the Boyd contract is ridiculous (Hutchy stated that he knows that Boyd is on roughly 1.8-2M this year, making him the highest paid player in the competition) and is potentially costing us trade opportunities. Hutchy argued that the money is the most insignificant thing about the deal, that we have to pay someone to make the cap and it's best to do it up front so when our guns are coming out of contract (he mentioned Stringer, Macrae & Bont), we've front loaded and will have the cap space to retain them. By the time 2018 roles around, he'll be on approx $700,000 and will be well worth that (and implying it will be unders).

Barrett just couldn't let go of the huge dollars and the fact we're contending and we may miss a player due to Boyd's contract and Hutchy said (in his role as PG) - "Ok, Bevo. You get a commitment from a Dustin Martin or a Dan Hannebery and I'll see if I can make it happen, until then it doesn't matter". Hutchy then had a crack at Barrett for his righteousness regarding his negativity over the Boyd deal.

It was an interesting segment and I give props to Hutchy for seeing the deal in a way that other journos like Barrett have been unable to. What was also insightful was a comment Hutchy made earlier in the podcast about 'good blokes' in the game getting a '20% discount' or leniency in how things are reported in the media, yet blokes who have been hard work get whacked the other way. Barrett agreed and said as he got older and more jaded, this happens more often.

Gives you an idea why Barrett goes so hard at Boyd and Bevo.

Well worth a listen for Doggies fans, if only to have some ammo the next time a peanut opposition supporter has a crack at the Boyd deal.


There's a show on SEN 9-11 Saturday mornings with Hutchinson, Liam Pickering and Dr Turf talking footy and media for two hours .its funny stuff.

[comrade]

There's a show on SEN 9-11 Saturday mornings with Hutchinson, Liam Pickering and Dr Turf talking footy and media for two hours .its funny stuff.

Yeah, I listen to it and it's not bad. A little too much drinking of their own bath water but they've got a good chemistry between the 3. One of the better sports programs getting around.

[Twodogs]

When you doubt just watch this and remember he is only 20.


http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-03-14/talking-points-dogs-v-pies

I was walking around the ground and can remember seeing someone start to run toward the ball and thinking "oh I hope that's Tom Boyd" because the moment he took his first step toward the contest, even though he was 20 metres away from the pack, no one else was getting near that ball.

[Twodogs]

Yeah, I listen to it and it's not bad. A little too much drinking of their own bath water but they've got a good chemistry between the 3. One of the better sports programs getting around.

Off The Record? Is that what it's called?

Whoever decided the format listened to a lot of Punter to Punter on RRR back in the day.

[Go_Dogs]

Hopefully Boyd can get some consistency over the next few weeks.

It's going to be one of those great problems to have if all of Redpath, Campbell, Roughead and Boyd are deserving of spots in the 22. Whilst it may leave us a little top heavy on paper, I'd be interested to see how we went with all of them in the side for a stretch, particularly as we close in on September.

[Twodogs]

Hopefully Boyd can get some consistency over the next few weeks.

It's going to be one of those great problems to have if all of Redpath, Campbell, Roughead and Boyd are deserving of spots in the 22. Whilst it may leave us a little top heavy on paper, I'd be interested to see how we went with all of them in the side for a stretch, particularly as we close in on September.

With Crameri back next year are we going to have too many key forwards? Or tall forward targets or whatever.

Because they really are a commodity at trade time.

[Bulldog4life]

With Crameri back next year are we going to have too many key forwards? Or tall forward targets or whatever.

Because they really are a commodity at trade time.

You have to allow for injuries. Always need some in reserve.

[Go_Dogs]

With Crameri back next year are we going to have too many key forwards? Or tall forward targets or whatever.

Because they really are a commodity at trade time.

If they're all fit and firing, it may be a bit of a juggling act and I guess that's where Bevo's philosophy around versatility will be very handy, we can find roles for all of these guys to play given they can spend time in a number of positions.

I'd prefer to have the depth we've got than find ourselves left short, like we have been a little down back this year when we were hit with injuries to a number of running players at the one time.

[Rocco Jones]

The beauty of Crameri is he helps balance a forward line whether it's top heavy or not tall enough. It's pretty simple, he will just it better.

Height doesn't make you too heavy, a lack of mobility does. You could play 6 Buddies and not be top heavy.

[1eyedog]

With Crameri back next year are we going to have too many key forwards? Or tall forward targets or whatever.

Because they really are a commodity at trade time.

Crameri Boyd and Stringer are first string and Redpath in reserve. Your question does raise an interesting scenario re. the Camhead factor. I'd prefer Boyd didn't ruck but he may need to. Not sure we can play Camhead and Boyd.

[Twodogs]

Versatility is a good point. And Crameri brings gut running for a big guy. One thing we have missed this year is his ability to start a play in defence and finish it by taking a mark in the forward line. It's a neat trick. I had to text someone and check that it was Crameri that got the first kick out of defence after he'd kicked a goal from a mark deep in attack last year.

[jeemak]

With Crameri back next year are we going to have too many key forwards? Or tall forward targets or whatever.

Because they really are a commodity at trade time.

Crameri will play more of a high forward role I think, and Stringer will take more turns in the middle of the ground as he matures.

[bulldogtragic]

Tom Boyd at 27 games - vs - Kurt Tippett at 27 games

Goals - 29.13 vs 26.24 (Boyd is an outstanding kick for goal as I keep rambling about)
Disposals - 7.89 vs 8.59
Marks - 3.1 vs 2.7
CM - 1.07 vs .96
Tackles - 1.89 vs 2.07

Salary - $700,000 (after this year is done) vs $900,000

Boyd is ahead of Tippett on a like for like after 27 games. But Tom has considerably more growth and development in his game. This deal is a winner no matter Barrett screams about. Boyd is the real deal, he'll be better than Tippett and he will cost considerably less. I stand by my decision to recruit him from GWS.

Can't find anything to watch so thought I'd compare Joe Daniher (who some considered a top 3 pick if not FS). He had great service from a haulkingly strong midfield, much better than Tom has had thus far. Was a media darling too.

Tom Boyd vs Joe Daniher (First 27 Games)

Goals - 29.13 vs 28.20
Disposals - 7.89 vs 11.30
Marks - 3.1 vs 5.2
CM - 1.07 vs 1.22
Tackles - 1.89 vs 1.29

This is now Joe's career average. He's gone nowhere since in over 2 years for lots of reasons. Joe was talked about as the best young forward prospect, Boyd described generally as an undeserving thief. Despite their output being the same. Maybe footy journos can't tell on-field talent a part...

[bulldogtragic]

Tom Boyd vs Tom Hawkins (Hawkins with a premiership midfield and Mooney, Johnson, Ottens etc.) First 27 games.

Goals - 29.13 vs 37.12
Disposals - 7.89 vs 11.18
Marks - 3.1 vs 4.80
CM - 1.07 vs 1.14
Tackles - 1.89 vs 1.59

Very similar across the board. CM show power marking ability & tackles show work ethic. With Ablett, Bartell and co feeding him it's easy to see why he got nearly 2 extra marks and 3 extra disposals a game, with a few extra goals. It'd be interesting to guess whether Tom Boyd if given a midfield like that would've done more than what Tom Hawkins did.

The take home is Hawkins, Tippett, Daniher & Boyd can all be used in the same breath when talking about the output of talent to the first 27 games. That Boyd has pretty much matched them all despite not having the midfield the other three had should be cause for optimism. When Boyd gets a great midfield & delivery his output will rise accordingly. Tippett's on $900,000, Hawkins $800,000, Daniher will get stupid money not jump ship around $750,000+ & Tom Boyd $700,000 next year for 5 years. The only debate is when the media narrative turns to Boyd's increased output and his salary being under market rates.

[Twodogs]

Can you do one for Ablett sr in his first 50 games at Geelong and Jake Stringer in his first 50 please?

[bulldogtragic]

Can you do one for Ablett sr in his first 50 games at Geelong and Jake Stringer in his first 50 please?

I did on a Stringer thread recently. I will try to a find it and bump it for you.

[Webby]

Slobbo article in today's Hun on Joe Danniher not delivering on potential thus far at 22 years of age. However there's little doubt Danniher will be a gun key forward/ruck... They just take time...

Interesting to note that T Boyd hasn't yet turned 21. Puts things into a bit of perspective, I reckon.

[bulldogtragic]

Slobbo article in today's Hun on Joe Danniher not delivering on potential thus far at 22 years of age. However there's little doubt Danniher will be a gun key forward/ruck... They just take time...

Interesting to note that T Boyd hasn't yet turned 21. Puts things into a bit of perspective, I reckon.

... Daniher must take a pay cut to allow the club to resign the doping players on long terms massive dollar contracts so the club can claim all of those players re-signed...

[Bulldog4life]

Slobbo article in today's Hun on Joe Danniher not delivering on potential thus far at 22 years of age. However there's little doubt Danniher will be a gun key forward/ruck... They just take time...

Interesting to note that T Boyd hasn't yet turned 21. Puts things into a bit of perspective, I reckon.

I am sure Joe will make it. Took 15 marks this year in one game. In a good team he would be so much a better player.

[F'scary]

Don't know what Slobbo is on about, he seems to be playing pretty well to me. This is an example of you're only as good as your last match journalism. One average game and the Slobbos of the world are out with the knives.

[Remi Moses]

Does anyone ever know what the Cookie Monster is on about ?
What about he's drivel about Freo and Essendon, he wanted the afl integrity officer on high alert, then waffled on how much integrity Lyon and Worsfold have . Talk about bit each way .
Daniher will be a fine footballer, and it takes time for big kids to get there

[Ozza]

We all want Tom to succeed. All Ozza said that he was nervous. I can see his point.

That is indeed all I said - thanks for actually reading!

To expand on why I'm nervous about whether Tom will get to where we need him to - is based primarily on three areas of his game he needs to fix up.

- His mobility needs a lot of work. He just doesn't have the agility to change direction and get that separation from his opponent, which I think is why he rarely leads for the footy, but rather tries to stand and wrestle. I would like to see him lead and take the ball high in the air.

- His hands. He doesn't fill me with confidence (yet) when the ball is kicked to him. Drops a sitter per game, and isn't yet at the stage where he attacks the ball in the air and makes it 'his'.

- His competitiveness. It is probably confidence-related - but Tom doesn't have that competitive mongrel apparent in him yet.

Now by saying all of this - all I'm doing is pointing out the very obvious areas in Tom's game that need to improve to help him reach his potential. I think everyone seems to be very sensitive about saying(writing) out loud what anyone watching the game can see.

Yes, I realise Tom is still a pup. And I am as desperate as anyone, and as hopeful as anyone that he will succeed because he is just so incredibly important to our chances of winning a premiership. And that's just it - I'm only nervous about Tom because I think he can be a big piece in the premiership puzzle. I don't give a stuff how much he is paid overall - provided that all of our other guns are all still there.

What I want, is for Tom to get back into the senior side soon. For it to work with him and Redpath both forward. And for Tom to play well enough for it to be beyond doubt that he is in our best 22.

[Mofra]

Slobbo article in today's Hun on Joe Danniher not delivering on potential thus far at 22 years of age. However there's little doubt Danniher will be a gun key forward/ruck... They just take time...
Daniher was very good against Freo. Slobbo must have been drunk (again) when he wrote that article.

[Eastdog]

Will Tom play on Saturday or will we give him one more week and play him back at home in round 18. Certainly need him in that forward line.

[LostDoggy]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?

[EasternWest]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?

Well I certainly wannknowmore.

[cinder]

I heard this too on Facebook but I can't see how that's possible.

[Twodogs]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?


What's your source? If you trust it we are interested.

[FrediKanoute]

Everything's possible. Boyd was a marquee get before the coach arrived. If he doesn't fit into Bevo's plan's because he is a tool etc then I can see why the club might want to be rid of him.

That said, I don't get that impression with Boyd and Bevo. I think he was in the team and looking ok, like a 2nd/3rd year player should and then he got injured and then he was an idiot. He is in the club's plans - I can see him come in this week and play as the second ruck in the forward line.

[hujsh]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?

That would be stupid

[cinder]

I think this is the source but I don't trust it.

[removed]

[Twodogs]

I think this is the source but I don't trust it:

http://www.fantasyfootballnuts.org/tom-boyd-to-leave-the-kennel-in-2017/

Yeah. Don't know how accurate it is.

[Webby]

It's slightly irksome listening to all of the negativity surrounding Tom Boyd. He's a ruckman. He's not a freakishly athletic type of ruckman, either. Therefore he'll play his best footy from ages 26-32.

For some context, Boyd is not quite yet 21 years of age. Jack Watts is close to 25.5 years of age. Boyd is 6 foot 7 and Watts 6 foot 5.

Watts has only JUST begun to fulfill his potential and he is FOUR AND A HALF YEARS OLDER than Boyd. We knew when we signed Boyd that he was at least four years away from peak maturity. We knew that we'd have stones thrown at us as a result.

We knew if he experienced injuries and growing pains, we'd be copping flack from the world. Tom Hawkins and Max Gawn were both 23 before they hit their straps. Prior to that, their clubs carried them.

The difference being Boyd's on big coin. However we already knew that was the case. The other thing I'd say, is that we average higher scores with him in the side than we do without him. He is rarely out-marked and is good for our structure.

Calls to move him on are hysterical. He's going to explode at some point in the next couple of years.

[bornadog]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?

Don't tell me you believe the stupid things written by idiots on a website? There is one website in particular that has published crap like this and I will not name it and give it publicity. Just like idiots on BF saying Bevo doesn't like Tom and wants to trade him out. Give me a break.

[bornadog]

I think this is the source but I don't trust it:

That is the site I was referring to. These guys are anti Bulldogs and post the biggest hog wash and get people talking. Our supporters are nuts if they believe it.

[cinder]

That is the site I was referring to. These guys are anti Bulldogs and post the biggest hog wash and get people talking. Our supporters are nuts if they believe it.

Ok - I wasn't aware. I'll disregard anything they serve up then. But yeah sounded pretty far fetched.

[LostDoggy]

That is the site I was referring to. These guys are anti Bulldogs and post the biggest hog wash and get people talking. Our supporters are nuts if they believe it.

Come on, that site must be legit, i was very close to winning an ipad!

Sponored by Ransomeware..

[cinder]

Come on, that site must be legit, i was very close to winning an ipad!

Sponored by Ransomeware..

Yeah dodgy. I removed the link if Twodogs & Bornadog want to remove the quoted link too.

[EasternWest]

Don't tell me you believe the stupid things written by idiots on a website? There is one website in particular that has published crap like this and I will not name it and give it publicity. Just like idiots on BF saying Bevo doesn't like Tom and wants to trade him out. Give me a break.

Not that I disagree with you, but there is some irony in what you just said.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It's slightly irksome listening to all of the negativity surrounding Tom Boyd. He's a ruckman. He's not a freakishly athletic type of ruckman, either. Therefore he'll play his best footy from ages 26-32.

For some context, Boyd is not quite yet 21 years of age. Jack Watts is close to 25.5 years of age. Boyd is 6 foot 7 and Watts 6 foot 5.

Watts has only JUST begun to fulfill his potential and he is FOUR AND A HALF YEARS OLDER than Boyd. We knew when we signed Boyd that he was at least four years away from peak maturity. We knew that we'd have stones thrown at us as a result.

We knew if he experienced injuries and growing pains, we'd be copping flack from the world. Tom Hawkins and Max Gawn were both 23 before they hit their straps. Prior to that, their clubs carried them.

The difference being Boyd's on big coin. However we already knew that was the case. The other thing I'd say, is that we average higher scores with him in the side than we do without him. He is rarely out-marked and is good for our structure.

Calls to move him on are hysterical. He's going to explode at some point in the next couple of years.

It is still to be proven if Tom Boyd has the necessary abilities to be the long term success to justify the huge financial investment made by the WB. My major concern is the imbalance it has created when compared with other gifted players such as Bonti Wood Stringer Liberatore etc.

[westdog54]

Not that I disagree with you, but there is some irony in what you just said.

I shouldn't have laughed but I did.

[LostDoggy]

Don't tell me you believe the stupid things written by idiots on a website? There is one website in particular that has published crap like this and I will not name it and give it publicity. Just like idiots on BF saying Bevo doesn't like Tom and wants to trade him out. Give me a break.
Never said I believed it, I just came across it and thought I would ask the question. I don't want Boyd to go and I am happy to be patient with him. I will be aware of this site moving forward.

[boydogs]

I think this is the source but I don't trust it.

[removed]

That article just seems to be reporting on a post that was made on BF

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tom-boyd-and-zaine-cordy-suspended-indefinitely-the-truth-about-tom-boyd.1136949/page-5#post-45299583

[bornadog]

That article just seems to be reporting on a post that was made on BF

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tom-boyd-and-zaine-cordy-suspended-indefinitely-the-truth-about-tom-boyd.1136949/page-5#post-45299583

What a douche to write stuff like that - exactly what I was talking about.

[Twodogs]

Never said I believed it, I just came across it and thought I would ask the question. I don't want Boyd to go and I am happy to be patient with him. I will be aware of this site moving forward.

I think we have no choice but to stick the course with Tom. The contract thing will sort itself out when Tom starts to play good footy.

Given that he's on a front loaded contract the media will be saying he is underpaid when gets playing his best footy. We are getting pilloried for paying too much now but it won't be long before we are underpaying Tom and we should be looking at upping his payments.

[Greystache]

With out going through previous post's as to whether this has been posted before, but I am hearing Tom will be gone by end of the year. Is it true and have people go anything to add to this?

It's utter drivel, I can tell you that categorically.

The reality is Bevo holds the exact opposite view. That website looks like it's run by a couple of year 8 students as a school project.

[bulldogtragic]

It's utter drivel, I can tell you that categorically.

The reality is Bevo holds the exact opposite view. That website looks like it's run by a couple of year 8 students as a school project.

It's why woof was created, so prepubescent bullshit rumours with no factual basis were throw around as fact. This couldn't be much further from the truth, in fact if defies any commonsense if you think about it for about 6 seconds.

[Twodogs]

It's why woof was created, so prepubescent bullshit rumours with no factual basis were throw around as fact. This couldn't be much further from the truth, in fact if defies any commonsense if you think about it for about 6 seconds.


I think that was the fifth day. TBH we were running out of reasons by then.

[Ghost Dog]

Funny how nobody has really put much heat on Tom Scully.
Tom does have a touch of tension and sometimes malice in some of his facial expressions that wasn't there a year ago. It's a lot of strain to put on a young guy, and I hope all supporters get behind him.
Next time he plays he will have to be careful not to get reported or do anything silly because of all this stress.
Play it cool mate.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's utter drivel, I can tell you that categorically.

The reality is Bevo holds the exact opposite view. That website looks like it's run by a couple of year 8 students as a school project.

Yep. As per previous post, that site copied it right from a BF post - so do not take any notice of it unless you think second hand info from bigfooty is a reliable source!

[Dancin' Douggy]

I still have a lot of faith in Tom Boyd, and really hope he becomes the young GOD he was predicted to become.

But................in retrospect, I'm not sure we did the right thing.

If I'm correct, GWS had pick 4 on the table for Griffen (please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they were offering pick 7 which they got from the Blues..........anyhow........

We could have done a straight swap. Gone to the draft with picks 4 (or 7) and 6, with our recruiting team in scintillating form.

We could have come home with two A graders, possibly a skilled fast powerful midfielder, and 2 metre Peter, with a Million bucks a year still in our pockets for a nice juicy free agent, and no huge contract hanging over Boyd and the clubs head.

So we lose Griffen and in return are set up to add 3 A graders to the list.

Or, do what we DID do, we lose Griffen, pick 6 and $$$$$ for 1 Tom Boyd.

If you could roll the clock back, would you do it differently?

[craigsahibee]

I think we have no choice but to stick the course with Tom. The contract thing will sort itself out when Tom starts to play good footy.

Given that he's on a front loaded contract the media will be saying he is underpaid when gets playing his best footy. We are getting pilloried for paying too much now but it won't be long before we are underpaying Tom and we should be looking at upping his payments.

We do have a choice. Sticking with Tom is the right choice. I'm confident Tom will start to play good footy in the near future and when he is still allegedly being paid $1m per season as a 26 y.o. Ruck/Forward that is tearing the competition apart every week, we can use hindsight to assure ourselves that the club had made the correct decision.

That path to good football will take another step this week with AFL selection.

[bulldogtragic]

I would still do it. There's a whole range of reasons, but I have unflinching faith in Boyd. We never truly bottomed out in the sense we didn't get a superstar pick 1 or 2 player, and certainly never got a pick 1 gun KPF. Through this deal we got our hands on one and come the prelim finals, I'm going to be a bit more relaxed that we have a talented 203cm, 100kg power forward to bomb it to. The kid is still on his P Plates, and I don't think we are anywhere near the point of dissecting the merits of the deal yet. Barrett may continue to, but this is less than 2 years into a 7 year deal and the deal involves THE best underage player in the entire country in 2013.

[Bulldog4life]

It is still to be proven if Tom Boyd has the necessary abilities to be the long term success to justify the huge financial investment made by the WB. My major concern is the imbalance it has created when compared with other gifted players such as Bonti Wood Stringer Liberatore etc.

That has always been my concern from day one. Not the fact that Tom is getting the coin.

[hujsh]

I still have a lot of faith in Tom Boyd, and really hope he becomes the young GOD he was predicted to become.

But................in retrospect, I'm not sure we did the right thing.

If I'm correct, GWS had pick 4 on the table for Griffen (please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they were offering pick 7 which they got from the Blues..........anyhow........

We could have done a straight swap. Gone to the draft with picks 4 (or 7) and 6, with our recruiting team in scintillating form.

We could have come home with two A graders, possibly a skilled fast powerful midfielder, and 2 metre Peter, with a Million bucks a year still in our pockets for a nice juicy free agent, and no huge contract hanging over Boyd and the clubs head.

So we lose Griffen and in return are set up to add 3 A graders to the list.

Or, do what we DID do, we lose Griffen, pick 6 and $$$$$ for 1 Tom Boyd.

If you could roll the clock back, would you do it differently?

If it was certain we'd get Peter Wight then I'd reconsider it. At the time though we didn't know that and we had a number one KPP on the table so without hindsight I'd probably still take it.

[Bulldog4life]

I still have a lot of faith in Tom Boyd, and really hope he becomes the young GOD he was predicted to become.

But................in retrospect, I'm not sure we did the right thing.

If I'm correct, GWS had pick 4 on the table for Griffen (please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they were offering pick 7 which they got from the Blues..........anyhow........

We could have done a straight swap. Gone to the draft with picks 4 (or 7) and 6, with our recruiting team in scintillating form.

We could have come home with two A graders, possibly a skilled fast powerful midfielder, and 2 metre Peter, with a Million bucks a year still in our pockets for a nice juicy free agent, and no huge contract hanging over Boyd and the clubs head.

So we lose Griffen and in return are set up to add 3 A graders to the list.

Or, do what we DID do, we lose Griffen, pick 6 and $$$$$ for 1 Tom Boyd.

If you could roll the clock back, would you do it differently?

You are sounding too sensible.:)

[Mofra]

If I'm correct, GWS had pick 4 on the table for Griffen (please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they were offering pick 7 which they got from the Blues..........anyhow........
They were offering less than pick #7, I'd expect there would have been pissing and moaning and by the end of trade period we would have nabbed pick #7 and may have had a meaningless swap of late picks to dress it up.

We weren't sure we'd get 2MP at pick 6 which would have played on our minds - I wouldn't have been surprised if we tried to trade up to get him given we were by all accounts so into him.

[Twodogs]

Did Wright play in the TAC cup GF the year he was drafted? I remember there being a big fuss about him. I remember talk we were keen.

I'd do the Tom Boyd deal again. It's been a pretty sweet ride since he joined. Maybe he's a lucky charm? We look a lot straighter and score more with him in the team.

Anyway City Hall would have screwed us if we had refused to hand Ryan Griffen over and made him a soecial Free Agent or something.

And it goes the other way. Lots of talk about Marchbank wanting to come home.

[bulldogtragic]

They were offering less than pick #7, I'd expect there would have been pissing and moaning and by the end of trade period we would have nabbed pick #7 and may have had a meaningless swap of late picks to dress it up.

We weren't sure we'd get 2MP at pick 6 which would have played on our minds - I wouldn't have been surprised if we tried to trade up to get him given we were by all accounts so into him.

Yep, there's a fair bit on hindsight in this proposition. Would Richmond have traded for Jordan McMahon knowing we would get Callan Ward with the pick. Of course they wouldn't. GWS were offering up bugger all, we had a captain less club after he walked out vowing never to return and bunch of dissidents running to superannuation at North & Essendon. We turned that into freeing up cap space, recruiting well and landing the biggest fish that other clubs thought absolutely impossible to get. Remember Carlton & St Kilda enquiring after Boyd (on the same money) after said he wanted out, they should've been more industrious and aggressive to get him. His underage record is seriously elite by all manner of records and performances, and has shown glimpses of that already and he's only 2.5 years into his senior career playing on the best full back each week. We turned heart break into triumph with this trade and in so doing set about a new course with Bob & Bevo, PG & Dave and a list who were 'irrelevant' into finalists and soon to be premiers. The Boyd deal was the start of us fighting back, not to mention acquiring the best young player in the country.

[bulldogtragic]

Did Wright play in the TAC cup GF the year he was drafted? I remember there being a big fuss about him. I remember talk we were keen.

I'd do the Tom Boyd deal again. It's been a pretty sweet ride since he joined. Maybe he's a lucky charm? We look a lot straighter and score more with him in the team.

Anyway City Hall would have screwed us if we had refused to hand Ryan Griffen over and made him a soecial Free Agent or something.

And it goes the other way.mlots of talk about Marchbank wanting to come home.

Wright was making a fuss alright. I was sitting next to Melbourne's recruiters one TAC game and they were very impressed. Depending on who you listen to in terms of phantom drafts, Wright could've gone before our pick. Then we'd be lamenting no young elite KPFs on the list and an extra mid or defender.

[bornadog]

Wright was making a fuss alright. I was sitting next to Melbourne's recruiters one TAC game and they were very impressed. Depending on who you listen to in terms of phantom drafts, Wright could've gone before our pick. Then we'd be lamenting no young elite KPFs on the list and an extra mid or defender.

Brian Royal says he slipped to pick 8 because everyone thought he was a ruckman but he was never a ruck and is a pure forward. Recruiters shied away as they didn't want to go early with a ruck.

[comrade]

You can't look at the deal now and judge it based on what has happened since.

Look at the facts.

- Boyd was the unanimous #1 pick and the most dominant junior key forward, perhaps ever.

- Our captain had just knifed us and walked out, demanding a trade to one club and one club only. The club that poached one of our most promising young pups and then had the gall to make him a captain. We were the laughing stock of the competition, and it was time to strike back at one of the AFL's love child's.

- The rumblings of bigger cap space due to the broadcast deal had already started so a long term deal on big dollars isn't the cap risk it would have once been.

- Wright didn't set the world alight in his draft year and if you'd asked 100 people at the end of 2014 would they prefer Boyd or Wright on your list, 100 would answer Boyd.

So please don't rewrite history as if everything was so obvious in hindsight.

That deal announced to the world that we were no longer prepared to be the football world's doormat. Yes, it hasn't worked out exactly how we wanted but it's never been a better time to support this team.

[Dancin' Douggy]

You can't look at the deal now and judge it based on what has happened since.

Look at the facts.

- Boyd was the unanimous #1 pick and the most dominant junior key forward, perhaps ever.

- Our captain had just knifed us and walked out, demanding a trade to one club and one club only. The club that poached one of our most promising young pups and then had the gall to make him a captain. We were the laughing stock of the competition, and it was time to strike back at one of the AFL's love child's.

- The rumblings of bigger cap space due to the broadcast deal had already started so a long term deal on big dollars isn't the cap risk it would have once been.

- Wright didn't set the world alight in his draft year and if you'd asked 100 people at the end of 2014 would they prefer Boyd or Wright on your list, 100 would answer Boyd.

So please don't rewrite history as if everything was so obvious in hindsight.

That deal announced to the world that we were no longer prepared to be the football world's doormat. Yes, it hasn't worked out exactly how we wanted but it's never been a better time to support this team.

With all due respect. 'I wasn't rewriting history as if everything was so obvious in hindsight'.
I was merely asking for peoples opinions.

I didn't say the club was stupid or the deal sucked......... just asking for opinions.

[China Dog]

I just wish that Tom Boyd would show the same level of desperation and effort as someone like Clay Smith. I want to see that he cares and desperately wants to be out there. Sometimes he seems to be a little disinterested and timid. I know he is still young, but so many other young players seem to have more aggression and desire for the ball.

[comrade]

I just wish that Tom Boyd would show the same level of desperation and effort as someone like Clay Smith. I want to see that he cares and desperately wants to be out there. Sometimes he seems to be a little disinterested and timid. I know he is still young, but so many other young players seem to have more aggression and desire for the ball.

That's a tad unfair. Only one player has the level of desperation and effort as Clay Smith, and that's Clay Smith.

[1eyedog]

That's a tad unfair. Only one player has the level of desperation and effort as Clay Smith, and that's Clay Smith.

Picko says G'day.

[comrade]

Picko says G'day.

Picko wears Clay Smith boxer shorts, that's how hardcore Clay is :D

[Eastdog]

I just wish that Tom Boyd would show the same level of desperation and effort as someone like Clay Smith. I want to see that he cares and desperately wants to be out there. Sometimes he seems to be a little disinterested and timid. I know he is still young, but so many other young players seem to have more aggression and desire for the ball.

In the games he has played Tom in some of those games has played very well and others he hasn't. His had a setback with injury this year and if it wasn't for that he would be playing most weeks I would say as we want to get as many games into him as we can.

Obviously, recently he was caught up in an incident with Zaine Cordy but that has been dealt with by the club and now I would say his focus is on his footy 100% and getting back into the senior side.

[Eastdog]

I still have a lot of faith in Tom Boyd, and really hope he becomes the young GOD he was predicted to become.

But................in retrospect, I'm not sure we did the right thing.

If I'm correct, GWS had pick 4 on the table for Griffen (please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they were offering pick 7 which they got from the Blues..........anyhow........

We could have done a straight swap. Gone to the draft with picks 4 (or 7) and 6, with our recruiting team in scintillating form.

We could have come home with two A graders, possibly a skilled fast powerful midfielder, and 2 metre Peter, with a Million bucks a year still in our pockets for a nice juicy free agent, and no huge contract hanging over Boyd and the clubs head.

So we lose Griffen and in return are set up to add 3 A graders to the list.

Or, do what we DID do, we lose Griffen, pick 6 and $$$$$ for 1 Tom Boyd.

If you could roll the clock back, would you do it differently?

It's an interesting one DD but we now have to have faith that Tom will come good. More games for Tom more better.

[FrediKanoute]

I think this is a storm in a teacup. Yes he has been sub par, but now is not the time to throw the baby out. May as well hold him for the next 5 years and see what he develops into. We have held on to other forwards for far longer and got no return. Boyd needs game time at AFL level. Sure the defenders are better, but so too is the delivery inot the forward line. Personally I'd like to see Boyd as the deep markin forward, with Redders leading up to the 50 and Jake being given a free reign.

[bulldogtragic]

edit.

[Eastdog]

I think this is a storm in a teacup. Yes he has been sub par, but now is not the time to throw the baby out. May as well hold him for the next 5 years and see what he develops into. We have held on to other forwards for far longer and got no return. Boyd needs game time at AFL level. Sure the defenders are better, but so too is the delivery inot the forward line. Personally I'd like to see Boyd as the deep markin forward, with Redders leading up to the 50 and Jake being given a free reign.

After all that's what we got Tom for - a key forward (key position) player. Stringer is at his best like you say when he has more freed up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

How many games have all of Tom, Red, Stringer and Crameri played together?

[bornadog]

'It's time to put it behind us': Beveridge flags Boyd return (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-12/its-time-to-put-it-behind-us-beveridge-flags-boyd-return?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed%3A+AFL+Latest+News)
WESTERN Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge has given the strongest indication yet that Tom Boyd's club-imposed suspension could be lifted for Saturday night's game against Gold Coast at Cazaly's Stadium.


Beveridge told reporters at his weekly press conference on Tuesday that a decision on the ongoing saga would be made at a meeting of club officials later that night.


Boyd and teammate Zaine Cordy were indefinitely banned from playing in the senior side following a drunken altercation between the two.


The second-year coach said Boyd's selection against the Suns would come down to form and whether he had served his penance.


"We'll find out tonight and I can't give you a definitive answer right now," Beveridge said.


"He probably didn't play (on the weekend) as well as he did the week before at VFL level.


"So on form, we've got to consider that at match committee.


"I think it's time, I think it's time to put it behind us.


"We're ready to get one of the bigs in again."


Tom Liberatore is unlikely to make the trip north with Beveridge saying the Dogs would take a cautious approach with the star playmaker.


The 23-year-old sustained a small crack in his rib against Richmond and the three-hour flight to Cairns wouldn’t help his condition.

[Ozza]

How many games have all of Tom, Red, Stringer and Crameri played together?

Round 1 last year v West Coast and also down at Geelong last year - are the only 2 I can remember.

[bulldogtragic]

So these dickheads from BF have a Facebook rumour going that we may trade Tom to Carlton, Collingwood &/or Richmond. Seems channel 10 is running a story about it later in the news: 'worrying news at Whitten Oval'. So when there's actually no bad news on the dogs, people will just make it up. The small matter of 5.5 years of a contract is not mentioned.... I wonder if they'll mention Bevo said Boyd may be back in the AFL team this week, which he said today...

[bornadog]

So these dickheads from BF have a Facebook rumour going that we may trade Tom to Carlton, Collingwood &/or Richmond. ..

Started on BF by someone called Fronkalious. I went on and said it was the worst post in BF history.

Three websites have picked up on it and now you say channel 10. FFS, Journos are the laziest fools ever for not checking rumours.

[Bulldog4life]

Started on BF by someone called Fronkalious. I went on and said it was the worst post in BF history.

Three websites have picked up on it and now you say channel 10. FFS, Journos are the laziest fools ever for not checking rumours.

Haven't been on it since I discovered Woof. Waste of space and time.

[bornadog]

Haven't been on it since I discovered Woof. Waste of space and time.

I don't either but was compelled to after the link posted above to see what was written

I can tell you now, most posts on their are negative and they are not real supporters. I won't be going back.

[Eastdog]

Haven't been on it since I discovered Woof. Waste of space and time.

I go on there occasionally but I prefer Woof.

[Bulldog4life]

Started on BF by someone called Fronkalious. I went on and said it was the worst post in BF history.

Three websites have picked up on it and now you say channel 10. FFS, Journos are the laziest fools ever for not checking rumours.

He got it from here I think.

http://www.sportingnews.com/afl/list/the-rover-tom-boyd-gets-more-headlines-than-games-latest-news-trade/1ku9rj962kwd419wkuk6p3i4tb/slide/1

[bulldogtragic]

Started on BF by someone called Fronkalious. I went on and said it was the worst post in BF history.

Three websites have picked up on it and now you say channel 10. FFS, Journos are the laziest fools ever for not checking rumours.

I just watched 10. They didn't go into the trade garbage, but all about his suspension etc. That's the worrying news at Whitten Oval re Tom Boyd...

[Bulldog4life]

So these dickheads from BF have a Facebook rumour going that we may trade Tom to Carlton, Collingwood &/or Richmond. Seems channel 10 is running a story about it later in the news: 'worrying news at Whitten Oval'. So when there's actually no bad news on the dogs, people will just make it up. The small matter of 5.5 years of a contract is not mentioned.... I wonder if they'll mention Bevo said Boyd may be back in the AFL team this week, which he said today...

Only mentioned that Libba unlikely to play and officials and players meeting tonight to decide on Tom Boyd. Nothing ridiculous like a trade.So that is good.

[Webby]

Only mentioned that Libba unlikely to play and officials and players meeting tonight to decide on Tom Boyd. Nothing ridiculous like a trade.So that is good.

So a classic beat up headline. Nice to get the attention, I guess!

[josie]

It is the not knowing for sure Boyd will be the messiah to our forward line (or should it be a member of the holy trinity with Stringer and Crameri or Dickson) that is doing my head in a little. I have a reasonable degree of confidence he is the blue chip investment I think Gordon or some other respected person said when we signed the deal. We just need to be patient and stay the course. I think Tom is improving and also think he will start clunking more of those marks once he is promoted and his confidence grows. I trust the Club regarding our ability to retain our A Graders too. From what I have seen in the VFL Boyd is liked by his colleagues and appears to be a good team player of above average intelligence (footy IQ too). The reality is 2MP was a gamble too back then, as is any draftee.

I would love to know the real story of the negotiation and no doubt it will come out in years to come, just like us knowing whether our investment has paid off. It is however tantalising to think we may have had opportunity of 2 top 10 draft picks....

[Ghost Dog]

He's going to make it. The support systems he has in place are top 4 in the league!

[jeemak]

I am loving this.

This is my dream come true. They fear us.

The tide has turned, and whether Boyd becomes the player we hope he can we know they are afraid of our rise and its impact on the status quo. They wouldn't be attacking him if it wasn't for the rest of us walking a bit taller, a bit prouder and with the knowledge we will only get better.

Embrace it all and one, it's time to revel in the jealousy and fear of our opponents.

[Remi Moses]

I love it , they're starting to hate us .
Won't be long until we're not "everyone's 2nd fave team

[comrade]

I am loving this.

This is my dream come true. They fear us.

The tide has turned, and whether Boyd becomes the player we hope he can we know they are afraid of our rise and its impact on the status quo. They wouldn't be attacking him if it wasn't for the rest of us walking a bit taller, a bit prouder and with the knowledge we will only get better.

Embrace it all and one, it's time to revel in the jealousy and fear of our opponents.

Yep, the narrative has changed completely in 2 years and for some of us, it's taking some getting used to.

If we were battling away in the bottom 8 with a wallflower for a coach, we wouldn't hear a word about the Tom Boyd deal or the Lin Jong tour.

Crowds are up, membership is up, we've got a coach and president that don't take a step backwards. This is what it feels like to be relevant.

[Remi Moses]

The Boyd deal is playing the futures market . Would we do it how things stand, right now?
Probably not . Let's see how this pans out, and supporters should hold their nerve against the tide of negative opinion

[bulldogtragic]

I am loving this.

This is my dream come true. They fear us.

The tide has turned, and whether Boyd becomes the player we hope he can we know they are afraid of our rise and its impact on the status quo. They wouldn't be attacking him if it wasn't for the rest of us walking a bit taller, a bit prouder and with the knowledge we will only get better.

Embrace it all and one, it's time to revel in the jealousy and fear of our opponents.

Ah, so you're saying: Wog Squad Thugs: Part 2

[comrade]

The Boyd deal is playing the futures market . Would we do it how things stand, right now?
Probably not . Let's see how this pans out, and supporters should hold their nerve against the tide of negative opinion

Imagine those investors in 1998 that sold their Apple shares at $7 due to negative opinion. I'm hoping Tom has some iPod like trajectory over the next 6 weeks and beyond.

[bulldogtragic]

The Boyd deal is playing the futures market . Would we do it how things stand, right now?
Probably not . Let's see how this pans out, and supporters should hold their nerve against the tide of negative opinion

I would for your first really good point. I'm happy the Barrett's of the world aren't financial advisors. If you want bank interest then invest in the Markovics & Tom Youngs. If you want huge returns, invest in a soon to be blue chipper a short while before they float on the exchange. Ergo, Tom Boyd.

[jeemak]

Ah, so you're saying: Wog Squad Thugs: Part 2

Something like that...... :)

[Ghost Dog]

Barrett is a newsreader, not a journalist. Journalists know something about their topic.
His opinions have no insight about actual football. Called out on it here. (http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/2016/5/spud-rubbishes-damos-awful-predictions/) <-----

[ratsmac]

It's going to be a great day when Tom explodes and kicks 10 against some poor unexpecting backman/men. And we will be all sitting there with smiles on our faces saying I told you so! #godogs

[Greystache]

The one thing I take out of this saga is our handling of it should be studied by business schools around the world, alongside CDO valuation methodologies from the 2000's, as an example of how to *!*!*!*! something up so badly that it snowballs into a crisis.

For what was a minor incident the club's handling of it has been so atrocious at every stage that people, even if they are idiots, are talking openly that his position at the club is untenable and we are trying to move him on.

[bulldogtragic]

The one thing I take out of this saga is our handling of it should be studied by business schools around the world, alongside CDO valuation methodologies from the 2000's, as an example of how to *!*!*!*! something up so badly that it snowballs into a crisis.

For what was a minor incident the club's handling of it has been so atrocious at every stage that people, even if they are idiots, are talking openly that his position at the club is untenable and we are trying to move him on.

Who has the responsibility for it though? Was it a designed media strategy from our soon to be ex-media manager (if it was them) or poorly handled by the CEO and the media manager was forced to carry out the order? The content of the press release is the issue from my vantage, and surely someone has to 'own' stuffing it up so badly.

[Ghost Dog]

We've never dealt well with Maverick characters. From Akermanis, to Boyd and his tipsy wrestling, we tend to overreact.